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From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 07:04:18 -0500
Subject: RE: Free Wheeling Hubs (Oh No not that again!)

>They don't work. Regardless of the position of the selector they remain 
>firmly free-wheeling.
>I have managed to produce a 2x4 Land Rover, just in time for winter.

Suggestion:  Take them off, throw them away, and drive your Rover as 
Mother Nature intended.

Anthony R. Sanna
SACO Foods, Inc.
Middleton, WI  53562
1-800-373-7226

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 07:04:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Frozen Clutch

>How does one do this, exactly?  It sounds either physically impossible, or
>at the very least, extremely uncomfortable.

Actually, this sounds like a very good method.  My IIa was frozen up 
after a bit of June flood recsue work.  I tried everything... and failed, 
until I accedentally started it in gear (oh, what a perky little engine) 
and hit a birch tree 8' in front of me before I could switch the engine 
off.  Guess what?....   

...freed clutch, traumatized birch (what a birtch!), and surprised owner.

Anthony R. Sanna
SACO Foods, Inc.
Middleton, WI  53562
1-800-373-7226

------------------------------

From: "Beckett, Ron" <rbeckett@nibupad.telstra.com.au>
Subject: Anti Freezes
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 96 23:43:00 EST

All,

In response to the question being asked on the LRO net - Is Ethylene Glycol 
poisonous?  I may have the answer in the lastest copy of (Australian) 
Automotive Engineer.

An article entitled "Ethylene Glycol - Friend or Foe" by ICI Australia (ICI 
is a very large (British?) chemical company) indicates it isn't as bad as 
some thought.  Note the comment on propylene glycol.

I have attached the text of the document to this email.  If you can't read 
it (it's in ASCII format), send me a message and I'll repost it to you.

>From some reading I have been doing lately (and the results of  which were 
printed in the latest "Hillmanews" Newsletter of the Hillman Owners Club of 
Australia (of which I am the Editor), it seems that US specification 
anti-freeze/inhibitor differs from British which differs yet again from 
Japanese concoctions.

Ron
'83 Rangie
'87 Rangie
'67 Hillman Gazelle (Singer Gazelle alloy head equivalent)
'71 Hillman Hunter Royal 660 (Humber Sceptre alloy head equivalent)

[[ GLYCOL.TXT : 5918 in GLYCOL.TXT ]]

 Coolants - Toxicology Issues
   The following discusses various issues associated with the
 use of formulated glycol radiator coolants.
   * Ethylene glycol, the major and important component of
 formulated glycol radiator coolant, is described in authoritative
 texts (such as N. Irving Sax Dangerous Properties of Industrial
 Matelials 1989 edition) as moderately toxic internally and NOT
 very toxic with an estimated lethal dose of 1500 mg/kg body
 weight or approximately 100mls (or small cup).  It is not readily
 absorbed through the skin.
   To put this in perspective, this is the same order of magnitude
 or oral toxicity as:
   Ethanol (alcohol in beer, etc)       1400mg/kg body weight
   Mineral oil                          1450mg/kg body weight
   Kerosene                             1170mg/kg body weight
   Note: Methanol is significantly more toxic at 428mg/kg body
 yet still classed as moderately toxic.
   Bittering agents are also deliberately added to reduce the
 risk of accidental poisoning by ingestion.
   The use of normal safe industry practices, similar to those
 for the handling of engine oils should preclude the likelihood
 of problems.
   Ethylene glycol is rapidly biodegradable and therefore does
 not present a persistent environmental problem.

 * The corrosion inhibitors that are included in formulated
 glycol coolants are also used in coolant products containing
 water.  Such inhibitors which include phosphates, nitrites and
 borates, range in classification from harmless to moderate
 toxicity.

*  Spent or used coolants contain various amounts of heavy
 metal corrosion products, iron, copper, lead, zinc and tin
 accumulated in the coolant as a result of engine circulation.
 The safety and occupational health issues associated with
 these heavy metal compounds are the same for both
 formulated glycol and coolant solutions containing water.

* Several long term animal tests have found no carcinogenic
 effects   (ref ICI Safety Data Sheet for MEG CD501167)

 Coolant Disposal
   With increasing attention being focused on environmental
 issues, the question of how coolant should be appropriately
 disposed of is frequently asked.  To add further confusion to
 the issue, the nature of the coolant being disposed may vary
 from straight water, water with rust inhibitors, ethvlene glycol
 solution with rust inhibitors to propylene glycol with rust
 inhibitors or any combination thereof!  Moreover, some
 arguments advocating the use of propylene glycol over
 ethylene glycol due to its lower toxicity rating by ingestion
 further confuse the debate as coolant toxicity is sometimes
 erroneously used to justify the direct disposal of propylene
 glycol coolants into the environment.
 The reality is, however, that no matter what the coolant type,
 it is an issue of how much heavy metal has been accumulated
 in the coolant as a consequence of circulation post engine
 components, such as lead solder, which determines how
 coolant should be disposed.  Accordingly, (Australian) EPA regulations are
 based on maximum levels of certain heavy metals which permit
 various methods of disposal.
  Specifically, with regard to ethylene glycol based coolants,
 it is therefore the question of heavy metal contamination which
 needs to be addressed in determining coolant disposal rather
 than the nature of the coolant itself.  The level of contamination
 in any spent coolant will therefore be dependent upon how
 frequently the coolant is changed and the level of engine
 maintenance provided.  Ethylene glycol based coolants
 themselves are completely biodegrade  ble as ethylene glycol
 degrades in the environment within 48 hours.
  To summarise, all coolants accumulate heavy metal
 contamination as a consequence of use.  Depending upon how
 well the vehicle is maintained, coolant disposal should be in
 accordance with (Australian) EPA regulations - which are based on metal
 loadings.  Taking this into consideration, ethylene glycol based
 coolants can be considered environmentally friendly as ethylene glycol
 degrades rapidly when introduced to the environment.

------------------------------

From: Andy Woodward <azw@aber.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:34:19 +0000
Subject: Re: Frozen Clutch

>>Step 7 Floor the throttle and as the engine comes up towards its
>>torque peak ( about 25 mph? ) depress clutch and with clutch
>>depressed, and throttle floored .........SLAM on the brakes.
>OK Quentin, how the hell can you heel-toe a Rover?  

I do it all hte time if I'm in a hurry. But in a LR it really IS heel 
and toe instead of teh subtle side of foot work in a normal vehicle.

Heel on the brake and toe on the throttle.

You know oyu've really arrived when you can heel and toe while 
double-double declutching into the low box at 20mph......

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:54:09 +0100
From: Peter Kutschera <peter@zditf2.arcs.ac.at>
Subject: Re: Free Wheeling Hubs (Oh No not that again!)

Hi Dave!

There is a washer under the nut at the end of the half shaft.
If this washer is to big (Outer diameter) you will always
have 2x4.

Don't ask why I know..

Hope this is the problem
 Peter

-- 
Signature: Cogito ergo sum....I think....
Homepage:  http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter
Landrover: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter/LR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 8:20:18 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Turkey Day Thrash in DC

OK, short notice, but I want to go off-roading tomorrow and wonder if 
anyone in the area is interested. Call or Email me ASAP and let me know.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel:
	"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 08:41:13 -0500
Subject: Re: stuff for sale in VA

Dave,

Do you still have the front fuel tank outrigger and the door lock?  If so,
what side is the door lock?  How much?

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

------------------------------

From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 08:41:44 -0500
Subject: Hub Wrench

Mea culpa, mea culpa!

I have seen the light!  errrr make that hub wrench.

After numerous postings from Net members, both publically and privately, over
the differences between the "forged" sheet steel, drop forged steel, and
"beer can" sheet steel of hub wrenches, I admit the error of my ways.  It
appears I confused the latter quality of the JC Whitless with the forged
sheet steel ala Rovers North, Snap on, or similiar available from quality
suppliers. 

I now bow humbly seven times "North"wards toward Vermont.

Larry (severely chastened) Smith
Chester, VA 

------------------------------

From: Alan Jardine <ALAN@atd.co.uk>
Date:          Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:06:50 +0
Subject:       Re: UK towing

> Reason I ask is because when my V5 came back from Swansea after
> change of taxation class,they'd altered the weight from something
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> and tell them to get it right?
> Mike Rooth
 
Landen weights refer only to classes, not particular vehicles.
I think the classes are <3.5 tonnes >3.5 & <7.5 then goods vehicle 
classes above this.  Therefore your landy will fit into the lowest of 
these taxation classes i.e <3.5 tonnes. 

Alan.

------------------------------

From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.nwscc.sea06.navy.mil>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 08:51:50 -500
Subject: Re: Frozen Clutch

LR Folk,
I've heard of double-clutching, but what is double-DEclutching and 
now DOUBLE-double-declutching???  Isn't this doubly redundant?
Mark

------------------------------

From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.nwscc.sea06.navy.mil>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 08:54:58 -500
Subject: Seeking Metal Pedals

I'm seeking a set of standard issue metal pedal pads, the
square waffle stamped parts with raised lip edge, welded
to the pedal pendant arms.  Both clutch and brake.
Thanks.  Mark  

------------------------------

From: ppinheiro@ip.pt
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:03:49 +0000
Subject: Brakes failed

  Hi to all.

    Today, the breaks on my SIIA 88" diesel failed.  Completely.  
Fortunately, I made it  home, slowly, without hitting anything... :-) 
 I think it started  yesterday.  I drove a total of about 80 km, and 
the breaks were just  a little bit lighter, almost nothing.  Today, 
on my way to college  they were lighter, a little less responsive, 
but nothing to worry  about.  When I left the parking lot, I had no 
brakes!  I made it  home, which was pretty challenging, due to the 
hilly nature of  Lisbon... :-)

   Anyway, the link of the brake pedal with the master cylinder is 
working (I see it pushing the cylinder - I asked a friend to push the 
pedal while I watched), and the level of the brake/clutch is down 
about one inch from the top.  And I don't see any leaks from the 
brakes, neither on the outside of the wheels, neither on the inside.  
I assume is the master cylinder that is gone, but I'm not sure.

   Is there any procedure to test what has failed ?  If the cylinder 
is gone, what do I have to replace ?

   Thanks for the help,                               Pedro
     AFS Exchange Student - Missouri, US - 1993-94
          '67 Land Rover SIIA Diesel (Oscar)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 96 09:06:23 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Safari roof questions

Tim challenges:
>Yeah, and next he'll want to paint the damn thing poppy red like he's Boy   
>Racer or something. Well, sorry Dave. My beast can be imitated, but not   
>duplicated. Ha! :-)

>See ya on the speedway,

Sure... and don't forget to bring your tow strap...:-)

Dave "What's paint?" B.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:08:07 -0500
From: Michel Bertrand <mbertran@InterLinx.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: help my rover come home

At 19:50 96-11-26 -0400, you wrote:
>Any one know of a way of getting a '69 swb IIa from Winnipeg, Manitoba to
>Fredericton, New Brunswick?  It's currently freezing to the ground and
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>dolly or could be pushed on to a moving truck.  It can't be driven right now
>though due to a bad brakes and clutch.

Put an ad in your local paper asking if anybody is bringing a car outwest
and coming back unladen. Sure somebody would be interested. Also, try to get
in contact with David Place <dplace@SIRNet.mb.ca>. He's in Winnipeg and is a
true Land Rover fan. He might be able to help you out. Also, try to get a
copy of the antique car Auto TRader. There is usually a couple of ads from
companies that do this sort of transport as a living. Must be cheaper and
less time consuming than flying over there and renting truck and dolly.

Consider the avenue of putting the thing in a container that could be
shipped out east. Could be cheaper also.

Hope this helps, goodluck, and please, don't sell it to a scrapyard, there
must be a way...

Michel
Michel Bertrand
						______
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada, 		       /    __
					      /        \
1963 109 PU (Rudolph)	   		     | Lucas    |
1968 109 SW (in the works)		     |  Inside  |
1973 88 SW (21st century project)	      \        /
					       \______/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:56:19 +0100
From: Peter Kutschera <peter@zditf2.arcs.ac.at>
Subject: Re: Rover Icons?

Hello!
For privat usage you may copy some from my homepage. 
I have an unanimated too.

Peter

-- 
Signature: Cogito ergo sum....I think....
Homepage:  http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter
Landrover: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter/LR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 06:36:55 -0800
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Dec. issue of LRW

At  7:58 AM 11/26/96 -0800, James Wolf wrote:
;
>Hi All; stopped on the way home and got the Dec. issue of that great LR
>publication LRW. I even looked at that photo. WHAT IS THE UPROAR
;ABOUT??? I saw nothing offensive about it. In fact it was kind of cute,
>I'll bet there was a dare or something involved. Just look at their
>faces these two are having fun. I also enjoyed the article.
;
Jim,
You evidently forgot that the US was founded by and was a haven for
religious fanatics that had little tolerence for others views.  They came
to America or went out West because they didn't want to be exposed to views
that differed from their own.

On the US West coast Rover list this subject was discussed past death.
Someone who sells LRW found the photo offensive and decided that he did not
want his company to sell this issue.  He returned the entire allocation and
told the West coast list that he wouldn't be selling the issue and why.
Unfortunatly, the subject leaked to the main list.

So you and I have an issue that was banned in California. Too bad because I
thought it was one of their better issues.  It even had a writup on Don
Scott's hybred.

Maybe photographers look at the world differently

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:45:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Hub Wrench

On Wed, 27 Nov 1996 Lodelane@aol.com wrote:

> "beer can" sheet steel of hub wrenches, I admit the error of my ways.  It
> appears I confused the latter quality of the JC Whitless with the forged
> sheet steel ala Rovers North, Snap on, or similiar available from quality
> suppliers. 

	To muddy the waters, I got mine at a local machine shop, where many
	around here did after seeing the RN example of the day which, while
	very solid, wasn't, er, flat.  Put it face down and it sat at about
	a 70 degree angle.  The offset was almost the thickness of the nut
	it was supposed to remove.  Have also sen people buy them 
	slightly larger so they could slid them on over the lockwasher, thus
	breaking the tab (you are, in theory, supposed to replace the lock
	washer every time) on the lockwasher and spinning the whole mess 
	off at once, rather than playing with the bent tabs.  

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@cdr.wisc.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 08:59:17 +0000
Subject: Re: Dec. issue of LRW

TeriAnn writes:
> Jim,
> You evidently forgot that the US was founded by and was a haven for
> religious fanatics that had little tolerence for others views.  They came
> to America or went out West because they didn't want to be exposed to views
> that differed from their own.
TerriAnn,
If you're refering to the Pilgrims and the Mormons, both groups made 
their trips because *they* were persecuted, not becuase they were 
intolerant of others. Although they did seem to pick it up.
Uh, Land Rover content, mmm, I've seen 'em in Mass and in Utah.
Sorry, there's enough misinformation in history as it is.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@cdr.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:51:10 +0100
From: Peter Kutschera <peter@zditf2.arcs.ac.at>
Subject: Re: Brakes failed

Hello Pedro!

I have a SIIa too. It's a 68 LWB SW Diesel.
>From the master cylinder goes the line down the bulkhead to the frame.
there is the switch for the break lights. 
Does your break lights work? If not there seems to be no pressure.
You may also remove one or more of th break drumms to see if the brakes
are moving - but be aware that the piston of the break cylinder might fall out
and the brake fluid will swallow about you brakes.

If the master cylinder fails you can get a overhoul set. 
I think there are 3 different master cylinders so have a look.
The work is easy if you have goot tools. There is a really large nut on
my master cylinder...

If the slave zylinders or any hoses are failing there wouldn't be any fluid
in your reservoir, I think.

Good look
 Peter

-- 
Signature: Cogito ergo sum....I think....
Homepage:  http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter
Landrover: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter/LR

------------------------------

From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:10:46 -0500
Subject: 4 wheel steering

Four Wheel Steering was used by Mercedes Benz in a small 4 wheel drive car
built in small numbers during the late 1930s.  If memory is correct, the
last few examples of these were used by a Swiss Mountain Rescue
organization, who liked their ability to negotiate narrow trails, foot
paths, sharp curves and still run on roads.  My understanding is that 4
wheel steering was only to be used for low range, off-road use.  The reason
this organization kept using these 50 year old machines is that there was
nothing else available that would work.  Imagine the challenge of finding
spares and keeping a fleet of these things running.

Paul Donohue
1965 2WS Dormobile

------------------------------

From: QROVER80@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:21:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Hub Wrench

Sorry to say this, but I have been using a hub nut removal tool for years and
it has never failed me. It doesn't flatten out or twist off and It's a
multipurpose tool too. Most of us have several of them already. It's an old,
dull cold chisel and a hammer. AND I didn't have to buy it from JC Witless.
If you need a big socket and a breaker bar to install the hub nuts on a Rover
then it's on WAY to tight.
Rgds Quintin Aspin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:34:39 -0400
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (East Coast Rover Co.)
Subject: Re: Rallies, way off in the future

>On Tue, 26 Nov 1996, Dixon wrote:
>        Easy now, you are getting rather close to starting a lovely
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>        little flame fest here...  Suffice it to say some may have
>        a very different intrepretation of events and the facts.

        That is exactly why I stated the facts as the organizers of the Off
Road day, so no half truths or rumors would get going. These are our
reasons. If *some others* as you say have opinions, that is a wonderful
thing called freedom, but at least they heard my opinions from me... not
from someone else removed from the situation. Flame fests get started by
people who disagree. I stated my reasons for the record, no one can
disagree, because it is only my opinion on the matter.
        Thanks to all the incoming emails about what we should do. I
appreciate it.

From: Mike Smith
East Coast Rover Co.                    207.594.8086
21 Tolman Road  *Rt. 90*                207.594.8120 fax
Warren, Maine 04864                     ecrover@midcoast.com
    Land Rover Service, Sales, Restoration, and More
        Series Coil Chassis Specialists

------------------------------

From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.nwscc.sea06.navy.mil>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:32:21 -500
Subject: Describe Photo

Please describe what could possibly be so offending
about a Land-Rover photo?  Mark  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 96 10:38:35 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Hub Wrench

>Sorry to say this, but I have been using ....snip... an old,
>dull cold chisel and a hammer. AND I didn't have to buy it from JC Witless.
>If you need a big socket and a breaker bar to install the hub nuts on a Rover
>then it's on WAY to tight.
>Rgds Quintin Aspin

I still prefer channel lock pliers...much more precise when adjusting the 
pre-load...
A socket would be nice though, if just for making me feel like a non-shade tree 
mechanic for once...but who can afford such luxuries..

Dave B.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 96 10:41:12 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Turkey Day Thrash in DC

>>OK, short notice, but I want to go off-roading tomorrow and wonder if 
>>anyone in the area is interested. Call or Email me ASAP and let me know.

I was thinking Friday...but I'll probably be in NJ. So Solly...

>> "Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"
    
Not to be confuse with reh-ching.

Dave

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:11:48 -0800
From: Neil Sheridan <neil_seg@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Stitching Swivel Gaiters

<<Pat asked about stitching and lubricating gaiters 

Rub several applications of vaseline jelly into both sides of the leather.  Place the 
leather over the swivel balls.  Fold over the edge that has two parallel lines of holes 
into a U shape, bring the other edge over and insert it between the folded edge, lining 
up the three sets of holes.  The kit uses 1/8" nylon rope as the lace, insert it at 
either end and tie a big knot in the end.  Stitch twice through the first and 
second holes to set the lace.  Then stitch in and out through all three layers firmly 
but without puckering the seam.  IMPORTANT:  The lacing should be on the rear-facing 
side of the swivel assembly so that a minimum of road water and muck is allowed in.  

The larger end gets bolted to the swivel ball oil seal retainer, the smaller gets fitted 
snug around the piece that joins to the axle casing. At this smaller end, leave a very 
small (1/2") opening in between the end of the stitching and the part that gets clamped 
down.  This is to allow water to drain out after wading, etc.  I filled the inside of 
the leather with 5-6 ounces of bearing grease by running the flexible hose on my grease 
gun inside the drain hole.

Good Luck!

Neil Sheridan
'65 SIIA 88SW

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:20:14 +0100
From: Jody Scharrenborg <jody@cyberlab.nl>
Subject: Re: LPG gas conversion!

>Does anyone know who does LPG conversions for Landys in the UK?
>After the budget I need to think of something to reduce fuel costs.

You might try here:
http://www.autogas.nl / http://www.autolpg.com
or  mailto:office@autogas.nl they are Dutch, but they might have some
answers for you. (they've been a great help to me - I'm very happy with my
LPG-powered Landy (S1)
Best luck,
Jody

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 18:18:29 +0100
From: Joost Kramer <kramer.jobse@pi.net>
Subject: (no subject)

unsubscribe land-rover-owner kramerjk@pi.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:29:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Rallies, way off in the future

On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, East Coast Rover Co. wrote:

>         That is exactly why I stated the facts as the organizers of the Off
> Road day, so no half truths or rumors would get going. These are our
> reasons. If *some others* as you say have opinions, that is a wonderful

	You stated facts, and others may have opinions eh...  Careful, 
	there were a few things amongst your "facts" that I consider, er,
	well I have a different "opinion" I guess...

> people who disagree. I stated my reasons for the record, no one can
> disagree, because it is only my opinion on the matter.
> reasons. If *some others* as you say have opinions, that is a wonderful
	Hmmm, looking at this semantically, you start with "facts" then
	deflect any incoming by saying it is your "opinion", thus they
	stand and cannot be disputed.  Ingenious...  Well, all in all,
	there will be a Downeast Rally on June 29, 30th (the Monday is
	a holiday in Canada so you might get more Canadians down there)
	and all to be seen is if it will be bigger than last year.  Time
	to update the page on N.A. events for the date of next years
	Rally (http://www.off-road.com/RoverWeb/Events/annual_events.html).

	Rgds,

------------------------------

From: QROVER80@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:50:49 -0500
Subject: Spirit over ego

Despite some differences in the past I am forced to admit that the folks at,
( dare I say it ) British Bulldog ARGhhhhh, can do a great advertisement. The
December issue of Hemmings just this moment arrived and there on page 9964 is
one of the best Landrover adds that I have seen in ages. A whole half page.
For those that are Hemmings deprived the add reads 

The Italians design there cars to express there ideal of female
beauty......................

So do the British

With a picture of a IIa swb below the text. And in the bottom corner it says
"British Bulldog" with the sub text " Spirit over ego" 

Rgds. Quintin Aspin
Irony? What irony?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:01:00 -0500
From: Jeffrey A Berg <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Subject: Re: help my rover come home

>Sounds like a job for "Super-Tow"...

Close Pat.  You got the name of our super-hero incorrectly though.  I
believe after our mild-mannered law student emerges from the phone booth,
and has a few frosty malts, he assumes the alteridentity "Zippy-Tow".

Just wanted to keep the record straight -- there are awards for these
things you know...

RoverOn!

JAB

==
 Jeffrey A. Berg     Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT
                    jeff@purpleshark.com
                     ==================
	My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
	My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
	Taste for the good life,
	I can see it no other way.
		--Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:29:10 -0500
Subject: '97 Down East Rally at Owl's Head 

The official word from the Owl's Head Transportation Museum:
> The Annual Downeast Land Rover Rally willbe held at the Museum on Sunday,
>  June 29, 1997 as part of our weekend Military Aviation and Aerobatic
Airshow
>  special event.
>  We had about 200 Land Rovers here last year and from what I hear many more
>  are expected in '97.
>  The full schedule will be posted on our Web page as soon as possible. The
>  address is http://www.ohtm.org

Regards,
David Cockey

---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	ohtm@midcoast.com (Owls Head Transportation Museum)
To:	Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: 96-11-27 08:47:18 EST

David, 

The Annual Downeast Land Rover Rally willbe held at the Museum on Sunday,
June 29, 1997 as part of our weekend Military Aviation and Aerobatic Airshow
special event.
We had about 200 Land Rovers here last year and from what I hear many more
are expected in '97.
The full schedule will be posted on our Web page as soon as possible. The
address is http://www.ohtm.org

Thanks,
Steve Heddericg

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:42:39 -0400
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (East Coast Rover Co.)
Subject: Re: Rallies, way off in the future

>On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, Dixon Kenner wrote:
>        You stated facts, and others may have opinions eh...  Careful,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>        there were a few things amongst your "facts" that I consider, er,
>        well I have a different "opinion" I guess...

        I don't understand how you... someone who is not inside my head can
judge anything, or any opinion that I have in my brain.
        I stated the reasons why my company will not be doing the Off Road
day, the reasons stand as what me and my company found as the reasons. What
are you saying??? That my reasons are wrong... well that is fine, but do
you think that changes my opinion?? Where are you going with this... what
would you like to achieve in regards to ECR not being part of it anymore?
Is their something else? Or as Monty Python said *have you just come here
from an argument?*
        If you said you didn't want to be involved with OVLR anymore for
X,Y and Z reasons... would you expect that I jump in and say something
about YOUR reasons. If you didn't want to be involved because they slice
the bread too thin... well hey, that is as good as any. The FACT that you
do not like thinly sliced bread stands, as does the result... that you
would be out of OVLR. Others would look at thinly sliced bread as an
OPINION, fine, they may not agree and that is great. But the reason and the
result are the same.
        So I'm a bit confused... my reasons, my opinion, maybe the word
fact should not be used in regards to ANYTHING in my head!! :-)  So what
I'm asking is what would be changed by you? and for what reason?
>        Hmmm, looking at this semantically, you start with "facts" then
>        deflect any incoming by saying it is your "opinion", thus they
>        stand and cannot be disputed.  Ingenious...

        Maybe I missed something in school... but if you think 109's rule,
isn't that your opinion? and a fact *that you think 109's rule* as well?
        Not trying to be ingenious, but how do you dispute my opinion? How
would I dispute your *109's rule idea* other than just disagreeing with it.
Which is a good thing!

        I'm sure the list has heard enough. If you want to continue the
conversation Dixon send it to me direct, as you and I are the only ones
talking about it.

From: Mike Smith
East Coast Rover Co.                    207.594.8086
21 Tolman Road  *Rt. 90*                207.594.8120 fax
Warren, Maine 04864                     ecrover@midcoast.com
    Land Rover Service, Sales, Restoration, and More
        Series Coil Chassis Specialists

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 19:40:53 -0800
From: David Place <dplace@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: help my rover come home

JMJasper wrote:
> Any one know of a way of getting a '69 swb IIa from Winnipeg, Manitoba to
> Fredericton, New Brunswick?  It's currently freezing to the ground and
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)]
> Rover - best 4x4xfar
> *******************************************

I might be more than an unappreciative auto scrap yard and I live near 
Winnipeg.  What do you want for it :-)  Serious like, you can probably 
find a cheaper one on the coast.  Manitoba doesn't have much of a 
selection but the coast has lots and on the way you can find Dixon and he 
probably will put you in touch with lots for much less than towing this 
wreck half way across Canada.  It will cost far more than the thing is 
worth in Canadian dollars. Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:11:56 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Hey you two...

Please be gentlemanly and take your arguments outside.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:18:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Rallies, way off in the future

On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, East Coast Rover Co. wrote:

	<a lot.. snip>

	My, my, we are touchy on this.  Fine, case closed...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:13:50 -0500
From: Kevin Girling <lroshop@idirect.com>

On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, East Coast Rover Co. wrote:

	<a lot.. snip>

	My, my, we are touchy on this.  Fine, case closed...

What a shame that in the very year we are to get support from LROI magazine
for one of the premier events in the LR North American calender, a mini war
breaks out.  In an effort to support this event LROI are to run a number of
articles, notes, call it what you will, promoting this great event put on by
enthusiasts for enthusiasts.  I know nothing of the politics at play here
but surely experience over the ages has demonstrated there is little to gain
from in fighting.  For my part I just want the rally to be a success.  If it
drifts towards a Billing style event does that really matter.  Surely the
object of any event is for owners and fans to come and participate and have fun.

If East Coast Rover do not wish to participate that is their business but
can't they be allowed to withdraw gracefully, and preferably silently and
with no backlash.  Time may prove that they were a sad loss to the event.
They may also decide they wish to come back in coming years to gain their
share of any media coverage that might develop.  If you part enemies it is
hard to build back the bridges.

This is a personal opinion and not that of LROI magazine.

Snip this one Kenner and it will be no more stickers for you!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:28:16 -0700
From: jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (john hess)
Subject: help finding people

Hi,
I need some email help,

first, my email to John Haskell, Indianaplois, IN, USA just bounced.  Are
you still around?  Email me please.

second,  would someone mail me info about south africa in 1998 for rovers
birthday?  who's sort of keeping tarck of things? I really want to go and
am saving money now.

thanks, happy thanksgiving to rover owners everywhere,

jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us
from home via modem
Land-
  -Rover and Mazda owner!  sniff, sniff, bye lovely Tiger.
dormobile page:
http://wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us/~jfhess/homepage.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:26:47 -0800
From: David Place <dplace@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Home of old Rovers

Hi all:  I thought others might be interrested in the things a few of us 
have been talking about on the edge of the net.  Someone asked me about 
old Rovers in Manitoba.  Well Manitoba isn't a "hot bed" of old Rovers 
but just west of us in Saskatchewan there may be quite a few.  In the 
late 60s and to about the mid 70s, Burnell Motors in Winnipeg was the 
supplier to the potash mines of Saskatchewan.  They sold all sorts of 
special Rovers for underground use.  The machines I regularly saw were 
all white.  They came with no windshield, no doors and only the tub and 
front bonnet and wings.  They had no tail gate and were all 88" models.  
They were diesels and were equipted with a scrubber on the exhaust which 
exited out the front of the vehicle.  This allowed the machine to be used 
underground without poisoning the miners.  They were used as mobile drill 
bit carriers and for moving men underground.  
Closer to home, a mine called Tantallum near Lac Du Bonnet Manitoba had 
the steepest grade drive mine in the world.  It was a stratigic mine for 
rare earth metals used in making tantalum capacitors and there was 
barilium (sp?) used to make jet engine blades.  The mine used Land Rovers 
to carry the men in and out of the mine.  It was really a large hole in 
the earth with a road around the sides.  Unlike open pit mines it had a 
roof and they used pillar type mine operations there.  The last Rover 
went out maybe in the late 70s.  I understand that the fellow who bought 
the last one got a load of spare parts as well.  Lucky fellow.  I saw the 
thing being driven on the highway some years ago and it might still be in 
service.  Maybe someone else in Canada knows something about the potash 
or Tantallum or Bernic Lake mine operations where these vehicles did such 
great work.  It would make a nice bit of history.  Maybe the Loadlane 
Project Engineer could shed some light on the shipments to Burnell Motors 
in Winnipeg Manitoba Canada.  By the way how much does a trace cost?  
Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:25:16 -0800
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: No Looking Back

At 07:44 AM 11/22/96 -500, you wrote:
>When you remove social shackles and strike out for freedom in your 
>109, don't forget to first clean out the bank account.  The cash makes
>a nice seat cushion.  Remember the ad of the man motorcycling to 
>work.  Rides past work site, yanks off tie, smiles, and keeps on riding.  
>I am told this is a male midlife hunter-gatherer characteristic that one

The Bank account's already cleaned out...  Better to pack the frame full of
gold coins -- Canadian, or Austrian, perhaps.  (Not US, certainly.)  And the
12ga flare gun behind the seat -- a mossberg 500 too, depending on where
you're going.  

>gets over.  But wait!  I don't want to get over this.  I mean, it feels pretty
>good.  Why would I rush "Guinness time".  Am I the only one who has
>these thoughts?  What's it like to strike out alone in a LR full of worldly
>possessions.  M

The more life conspires to prevent one from doing this sort of thing, the
more desireable it becomes.  

A few years back, I was relatively debt-free, with no long-term obligations,
and a decent bit of disposable income.  At that time, I wanted to take off
and see the world, but was in no hurry -- there were other diversions to be had.

Now that I'm looking at the wrong end of a 30 year mortgage, caring for my
father, and am pretty much broke with lots of debt, you can't imagine how
much I'd love to just toss some clothes in the back of the 109" and take
off.  Any direction ('cept west); it doesn't matter -- so long as it's the
road to freedom...

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:25:20 -0800
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: No Looking Back

At 06:01 AM 11/22/96 -0800, you wrote:
>> What's it like to strike out alone in a LR full of worldly
>>possessions.  M
>;
>I'll let you know when I get back from my 10 week combined sabatical/vacation.

But there's still a big difference between true freedom and knowing you have
to be back at your old job on Monday.  (Even if Monday is a couple of weeks
or months off.)

I don't think it's a male-thing...  I think it has to do more with a certain
type of personality rather than any specific sex or what-have you.  There've
been plenty of songs about the "wanderer", and the "rolling stone", and so
on.  (SRV did one, but I can't for the life of me think of it.)  Anyway,
some folks are content to stay in one place and spend their life washing the
car and walking the dog; the rest of us own Land Rovers. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:25:50 -0800
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: Frozen clutches

At 10:05 PM 11/26/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>peak ( about 25 mph? ) depress clutch and with clutch depressed, and
>>throttle floored..........SLAM on the brakes.
>Umm...I'd *pay money* to see that, Quintin.  Easier to start it up in gear 
>(4WD high) that try to get a third leg into the action.  Cheers

Depending on whose leg it is, it could be a lot of fun!

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:26:46 -0800
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: Frozen Clutch

At 08:51 AM 11/27/96 -500, you wrote:
>I've heard of double-clutching, but what is double-DEclutching and 
>now DOUBLE-double-declutching???  Isn't this doubly redundant?

Double-declutching is prying a double latte away from an over-caffeinated
plushmobile owner.  Double-Double-declutching is the same when they're
hanging on to it with both hands.  Watch out, because the biting and kicking
comes next...  8^)

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:26:42 -0800
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: LPG gas conversion!

At 09:05 AM 11/27/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Does anyone know who does LPG conversions for Landys in the UK?
>After the budget I need to think of something to reduce fuel costs. 

Dunno what electricity costs in the UK, but in the states converting to
electric would save a lot in day to day costs (but the conversion is
expensive.)  Of course, you'll be limited to something like a 50mile range
(not sure exactly, but probably not less than that) but for commuting that's
okay for most people.  (And in the UK won't 50 miles get you to another
country?)  Anyway check out Wilde EVolutions at
<http://www.wilde-evolutions.com/> for more info on their E-LR conversions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

From: Proto777@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:16:12 -0500
Subject: clyinder head

Ahoy All,

I'm about to replace the head on a IIa (64')  according to
the text I'm supposed to orient the "X" on the piston
(oh yes, rings also) toward the front or water pump when
reinstalling the pistons to the rods. The only problem with
this, is that in order to do so, it requires heating and bending
the rod (long axis) 90 degrees. You see the "X" on my pistons
run laterally, 90 degrees to the pin. I suspect that I have the only 
pistons with this orientation so my question is really, do I send 
them to Smithsonian or simply orient them to the cam side
and forget it.

Is there any other idiosyncratic or obscure proceedure involved
with reinstalling les head on this thing or is it a straight
bolt up.

What's the deal with replacing der wasser pumpen. $250.00
no rebuild kits. Is this real? 

Thanks for any tips, pointers, etc.

Arthur

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:59:16 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: No more Hi (You say Goodbye, I say Hi-Lo...)

Michel Bertrand has no 4WD High...

>Tried that. When in 4WD High, none of the front wheels get any power, just
>like if it stayed in 2WD. When I put it in 4WD Low, there is plenty of power
>going to the front wheels like it should be. Is there some kind of
>adjustment in the yellow knob mechanism?

I would hazard a guess that the cold temperatures have caused the mechanism
that shifts into 4WD high to freeze. On the front end of the transfer case
there is a metal dust cover over the ends of the selector shafts. You could
have a bit of ice in there causing the center shaft to bind. Another
possibility is that for some reason the locking pin (which gets pulled out
of the center shaft when you press the yellow knob down) is not getting
pulled out. A third possibility is that the spring on the transfer selector
shaft is broken - but that is inside the transfer case. You might be able to
get access to the dust cover and locking pin by pulling up the floor panel
on the right-hand side.

How it all works... (this is a real Rube Goldberg...)

The red knob is attached to the transfer gear selector shaft. This shaft
moves the transfer gear for high and low range. There is also a big spring
on this shaft which presses against an extension on the pivot shaft.

The yellow knob (which engages 4WD high) lifts the locking pin out of the
pivot shaft assembly. (This is the center shaft) 

The third shaft is the selector shaft for 4WD and moves the locking dog to
engage the front output shaft. The position of the arm which actually moves
the locking dog is set relative to the shaft by means of two springs.  

Connecting the three shafts is a pivot arm. The pivot arm has a pivot point
on each shaft.

When in 2WD high, the transfer gear selector shaft is in the forward
position, the pivot shaft is locked in the rear position and the 4WD
selector shaft is in the rear position. 

Pressing down the yellow knob rotates a lever which pulls the locking pin
up. Pressure from the big spring on the transfer gear selector shaft pushes
the extension on the pivot shaft (and the pivot shaft) forward. The pivot
arm rotates around the point on the transfer gear selector shaft which
causes the opposite end (which is attached to the 4WD selector shaft) to
move forward. The 4WD selector shaft moves forward engaging the dog clutch
for 4WD. Note that getting into 4WD High is based on the pivot shaft moving
forward by the spring pressure on the transfer selector shaft.

Moving the transfer selector from high to low range does a differant dance.
The end of the pivot arm on the transfer selector shaft moves rearward. If
the pivot shaft is in the forward position, it is pulled back until the
locking pin drops back in its hole. As the transfer selector shaft continues
to move back, the pivot arm rotates around its center point on the now
locked pivot shaft and in turn pushes the 4WD selector shaft into the
forward position. 

So, if that pivot shaft is frozen, you *should* still be able to get into
4WD low range. 

Cheers
    
Mike Loiodice
166 W. Fulton St.                  1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green     
Gloversville                       1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo
NY  12078  (USA)        7          1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue
                     #:-}>         1964 Triumph Spitfire - BRG

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 16:27:19 +0800 (SGT)
From: silkris@pacific.net.sg (Silver Kris)
Subject: Re: Re Snow,MGs and CVs

>> > > > Cars like the 2CV have  narrow 3" tyres, vitually no power or
>         [ truncated by lro-lite (was 28 lines)]
>> watch the big jacked up "4X4" types with their monster mud tires, slide
>> merrily through intersections and into each other!

What greater rover experience you chaps gain, living in areas with seasons.
Here in Singapore, we're getting the "cooler weather" now - constant
raining day and night. Should I opt for changing my motor oil to the
synthetic type or spend my hardearned $$ in a pair of wellingtons? ;-)

Cheers,
now where's that 110 axle breather tube
Lawrence
Ser III 109 2.6l

Silver Kris, Singapore Airlines Inflight Magazine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 10:45:08 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: LPG gas conversion!

Dunno what electricity costs in the UK, but in the states converting to
>electric would save a lot in day to day costs (but the conversion is
>expensive.)
Would *you* drive a vehicle powered by Joe Lucas???
Anyway,we've had Electric vehicles for years.They're called milk floats.
Only vehicle I can reliably overtake anytime after 10 a.m.Batteries
are a bit peaky by then:-)

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

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