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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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1 marsden@digicon-egr.co.u47Sea/Ocean Rover
2 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M12Re: Sea/Ocean Rover
3 Easton Trevor [TEASTON@D22LRO mag
4 "Steve Reddock" [steve_r16100 MPH
5 ASFCO@aol.com 18Re: LROA ??
6 Andy Woodward [azw@aber.29re: Chained again
7 twakeman@scruznet.com (T28Re: Re[2]: Dissention in the Yanks
8 "Tom Rowe" [trowe@aae.wi31Re: Subscription Prices
9 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@NR48Re: LRO Magazine.
10 "Mark Gehlhausen" [Gehl@10Ice Capade Quiz
11 marsden@digicon-egr.co.u13Re: LRO Magazine.
12 "Mark Gehlhausen" [Gehl@13[not specified]
13 "T. Stevenson" [gbfv08@u23Re: Rangie Steering-play
14 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@NR11Re: Happy B-Day
15 RoverNut@aol.com 27speedo cable
16 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M14Re: Subscription Prices
17 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob16Re: : AIDS (fwd), it's a school project,
18 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob13Re[2]: Sea/Ocean Rover
19 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob16Re[2]: High Parts Cost?
20 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M12Re: LRO Magazine.
21 JDolan2109@aol.com 15Re: the rub of the hub...
22 "Tom Rowe" [trowe@aae.wi21Re: Subscription Prices
23 Jeffrey A Berg [jeff@pur97Re: LROI
24 Michael Carradine [cs@cr24Re2: Subscription Prices
25 Uncle Roger [sinasohn@cr60Re: Dissention in the Yanks
26 Uncle Roger [sinasohn@cr19Re: Subscription Prices
27 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M15Re: Subscription Prices
28 "Tom Rowe" [trowe@aae.wi21Re: Re2: Subscription Prices
29 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob13Re[2]: Subscription Prices
30 NateDunsmore [dunsmo19@u22Electrical weirdness
31 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M12Re: Re[2]: Dissention in the Yanks
32 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob34Re: Electrical weirdness
33 ASFCO@aol.com 13Re: Electrical weirdness
34 Sanna@aol.com 32Re: Re[2]: Dissention in the Yanks
35 Sanna@aol.com 34Re: Rangie Steering-play
36 Sanna@aol.com 16Re: Yankin' the hubs again
37 pwakefie@isd3.esrin.esa.34One coil on my wagon.
38 Sanna@aol.com 19Re: Dissention in the Yanks
39 Sanna@aol.com 20Re: Dissention in the Yanks
40 Lodelane@aol.com 19Re: SerIII Heater Fan Blades
41 "Mark Gehlhausen" [Gehl@9Watneys?
42 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob20Re[2]: Yankin' the hubs again
43 Brad F Worls [bworls@ovn9Re: Dissention in the Yanks
44 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob56Re[4]: Dissention in the Yanks
45 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob15Re: Watneys?
46 Mike Johnson [johnsonm@b16simple solution
47 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob10Re[2]: Dissention in the Yanks
48 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob18Re[2]: Thermo fit...
49 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob13Re: simple solution
50 "John J. Tackley" [jtack245(Fwd) Eezibleed Info
51 "Boehme, Doug" [dboehme@32RE: Watneys?
52 Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus [A5Re: Watneys?
53 Harincar@mooregs.com (Ti28Rover + synth blend oil
54 ericz@cloud9.net 16Re: Irie good time, mon!
55 ericz@cloud9.net 27Re: ice capades
56 "Mark Gehlhausen" [Gehl@9IH Net Address Please
57 "Mark Gehlhausen" [Gehl@10LR Past Articles
58 NateDunsmore [dunsmo19@u22Re: Watneys?
59 ericz@cloud9.net 29Re: Hotter coils, welded points
60 Christopher Dow [dow@the52Re: Electrical weirdness
61 Faye Ogilvie [ogilvi@hge70Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
62 David Rosenbaum [rosenba16Re: IH Net Address Please
63 "Adams, Bill" [badams@us11Re: IH Net Address Please
64 NateDunsmore [dunsmo19@u24Re: Watneys?
65 Electronic Postmaster [P26Undeliverable message
66 Electronic Postmaster [P26Undeliverable message
67 Uncle Roger [sinasohn@cr20Re: Prefab Social Circle (AutoWeek Nov 4, 1996)
68 Michael Carradine [cs@cr41Re: LROA ??
69 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@NR19Re: LROA ??
70 "Franklin H. Yap" [FHYap14Re: LRO mag
71 paarch@ix.netcom.com (Pa27Re: Hotter coils, welded points
72 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@NR11Re: Hotter coils, welded points
73 ben@bell-labs.com 10lt95 x-fer high ratio..
74 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob59Re[2]: Watneys?
75 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob19Re[2]: ice capades
76 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob15Re: Rover + synth blend oil
77 "Tom Rowe" [trowe@aae.wi23Re: Re[2]: Watneys?
78 ASFCO@aol.com 73Re: LROA ??
79 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@NR11Re: Rover + synth blend oil
80 Electronic Postmaster [P26Undeliverable message
81 Jeffrey A Berg [jeff@pur85Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
82 paarch@ix.netcom.com (Pa24Re: Re[2]: Watneys?
83 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@NR48October 16 Telegraph...
84 DONOHUEPE@aol.com 22Dissension among the Yanks
85 Electronic Postmaster [P35Undeliverable message
86 DONOHUEPE@aol.com 12Congratulations
87 paarch@ix.netcom.com (Pa20Re: Rover + synth blend oil
88 Electronic Postmaster [P44Undeliverable message
89 lopezba@atnet.at 13Re: Eezibleed
90 Electronic Postmaster [P32Undeliverable message
91 "Beckett, Ron" [rbeckett38Re: drain plug size?
92 "Beckett, Ron" [rbeckett52Re: Electrical
93 QROVER80@aol.com 9Re: October 16 Telegraph...
94 Daryl Webb [dwebb@waite.22Re: lt95 x-fer high ratio..
95 rover1@sky.net (Steve Pa18Re: LROA ??
96 Lloyd Allison [lloyd@cs.12FWH
97 anieto@mofo.com (Nieto, 5Not read: thanks for info
98 Solihull@aol.com 17Re: Speedo Cable
99 Solihull@aol.com 21Re: High Parts Cost?
100 brian whatcott [inet@int25Finding an adaptor for Ford 302 to Landrover
101 Heather Dixon [hldixon@t7Re: Undeliverable message
102 ASFCO@aol.com 20Re: High Parts Cost?
103 Nathan Dunsmore [dunsmo122Electrical Exorcism
104 Jim Vinokuroff [jimv@haw36Re: re: Chained again
105 ASFCO@aol.com 12Re: Electrical Exorcism
106 Allan Smith [smitha@cand29Re: Electrical Exorcism
107 Allan Smith [smitha@cand27Re: Toyota jeep
108 Daryl Webb [dwebb@waite.26Re: Finding an adaptor for Ford 302 to Landrover
109 rover1@sky.net (Steve Pa14Re: Subscription Prices
110 Brad Krohn/Deborah Shann25Late IIA Genny vs. Alternator
111 rover1@sky.net (Steve Pa18Re: simple solution
112 Uncle Roger [sinasohn@cr18Re: Watneys?
113 Uncle Roger [sinasohn@cr71Re: LROA (LONG)
114 Uncle Roger [sinasohn@cr21Nifty GPS resource
115 Paul Oxley [paul@www.adv38Re: Dissension among the Yanks
116 Paul Oxley [paul@www.adv21Re: simple solution
117 Tre McCroskey [tmccroske14Re: LROA ??
118 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M10Re: October 16 Telegraph...
119 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M15Re: simple solution
120 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M19Re[2]: Watneys?


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From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Sea/Ocean Rover
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 12:03:47 GMT

And you thought the Sea/Ocean Rover was a myth, well I found this on The Times
WWW page (relevant (C) notices,etc,etc <here>):

                                     Still waving 

WHO NEEDS Britannia when you can have Prince Michael of Kent? In Rio
de Janeiro for the first stopover of the BT Global Challenge, old "sea-legs"
Kent has asked to help to man a yacht for the 1,200 mile-long stretch
between New Zealand and Australia. 

The Prince hopes to join the crew of Ocean Rover on the round-the-world
yacht race. He is undeterred by warnings that he will have to hunker down
with the rest of the crew, sharing bunk-beds and doing his share of the
night-watch. 

He has asked Chay Blyth, the race director, for permission to join the Rover on
the third leg of the race. The passage is renowned for its heaving swells which
give rise to biliousness among the less experienced. Sailing is expected to
last a week. 

The Prince's choice of Ocean Rover, a boat sponsored by the Rover Group,
may be connected with his visit to a motorshow in Sco Paolo, where Rover is
exhibiting. Unlike other crew members, who have paid up to #18,850 to sail
round the world, he is not expected to pay for his passage. 

To date, the yacht's record has been unimpressive. Two weeks ago, Ocean
Rover came to a grinding halt in mid-ocean when it crashed into a large shark,
killing the beast. More recently, the boat came close to being washed up on
the beach at Copacabana, when she drifted perilously close to the surf coming
into Rio. 

* Indian heritage experts are flapping their pantaloons after discovering that
  the remains of the noted 19th-century Urdu poet, Sheikh Mohammad
  Ibrahim Zauq, lie buried under one of Delhi's largest public lavatories. The
  Indian Supreme Court has ordered an inquiry into the unhappy
  circumstances, and demands that the toilets, which were built on his grave in
  1961, be replaced with a more fitting national monument. 

Oops accidentally cut&pasted the next news item! :-)

Richard (ex-Grukha SIII 109FFR

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:14:53 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Sea/Ocean Rover

. Two weeks ago, Ocean
>Rover came to a grinding halt in mid-ocean when it crashed into a large shark,
>killing the beast.

Ayup! Seafood roadkill.All in the finest tradition:-)

Mike Rooth

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From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: LRO mag
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 07:56:00 EST

It's good to see more NA content in LRO and the "competition" has improved 
the overall quality which seemed to have lapsed for a few months, certainly 
(though I haven't measured it and stand open to correction) the 
advertising/article ratio has improved.

Bill Leacock's point about production costs, advertisers and subscriptions 
is right on. Most publications are paid for by the advertisers, the purchase 
and subscription rates are there mainly to provide data on circulation and 
to justify advertising rates. Just think how many "free" trade publications 
we all recieve.

Many North American Magazines can be had on subscription for little more 
than the postage cost.

It appears that many magazines from the UK are overpriced for subscriptions. 
Just how much is bulk rate postage from the UK?

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:00:06 EST
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: 100 MPH

My V6 (2.8 from a Granada) lightweight did 100 MPH. It's not something
that I would like to sit at for too long as it was a little noisy.

Of course this was when I was on the Isle of Man, honest.

Cheers, Steve

Steve Reddock, Xyratex        |  "NEVER QUESTION AN
Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450      |   ENGINEER'S OPINION,
IBMMAIL (GBXYR96P)            |   YOU THUNDERING MORON !"
Steve_Reddock@uk.xyratex.com  |     - Dogbert 1996

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From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:02:53 -0500
Subject: Re: LROA ??

In a message dated 96-10-31 01:24:03 EST, you write:

>Michael Carradine
> VP, Land Rover Owners' Assoc.
> 72-88, 89-RR

VP LROA??
  whatever happened to the LROA ??
you guys got my $$ and I never saw anything but 1 magazine
VP LROA wouldn't be something I 'd want to advertise
Rgds
Steve Bradke

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From: Andy Woodward <azw@aber.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:07:57 +0000
Subject: re: Chained again

>Someone once told me that winter driving success (or lack thereof)
>can be   attributed as follows: 50% tire, 25% vehicle and 25% driver
>skill.

I'd put the ratio at 90% skill and 10% equipment - I've had a rear 
wheel drive Escort up hills past stuck 4wds!!!!!! And almost written 
off a Daihatsu 4wd that tried to follow my MOTORBIKE (a sportbike 
running cut slick type tyres!!!!) down thru Corris on ice - htere 
are some seriousl;y bad drivers out there........I have also had to 
play slalom on the same bike last winter past all the abandoned 
cars!!!!!!!!! Unbeleivable!!!!!

>LRs, or at least mine in my experience, are technically 'loose' as
>NASCAR   drivers would say. What that means is that they have a
>tendancy to want   to swap ends on greasy surfaces, like ice. Adding
>a couple hundred pounds   of sand in the back would help some, but
>being in 4 wheel drive or not   won't make a whit of difference.

My experience of teh 90 is that with the diff unlocked the thing 
tends to understeer, but with the diff locked (and no weight in teh 
back), the spinout of the drivertrain always vents thru the rear 
inside wheel and it oversteers like a sportscar and can be steered with te rear 
most satisfactorily.

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 05:51:33 -0800
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Dissention in the Yanks

At 11:47 AM 10/31/96 +0000, Mike Rooth wrote:
.And you wouldnt *beleive*
>the mental contortions you have to go through to justify buying one.

Having purchased my 109 to help me on the goat dairy back when, I didn't
have to go through too many contortions.

>If you really want a useless accessory,try one of those dashboard mounted
>"roll and pitch" gauges.Ensures you are looking at the dashboard while
>you go inverted.....

My housemate was in an accident a few years back where her VW van ended up
on its side (she was hit broadside by someone who ran a stop sign).  Since
then she panics at slight tilts of the Land Rover.  I showed her the
picture of the military LR on a set of ramps set up at 45 degrees,
purchased and installed a roll guage (not pitch, just s curved class with a
ball).  I told her to watch the ball and not to worry untill it reads over
45 degrees.  Since then she focuses on the ball and doesn't panic at less
then 10 degree side tilts.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

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From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@aae.wisc.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:16:03 +0000
Subject: Re: Subscription Prices

Kevin girling writes:
snip
> A new subcription for North America costs GBP57 for 13 issues.  This price
> includes air mail which, being of British origin is very expensive.  This is
> about US$86 or US$6.62 delivered to your door.
snip
By the exhange rate of 10-23 1GBP=$1.5974 US. That comes to slightly 
over $7.00US per issue.
It seems a more economical way (maybe) would to be to affix the 
mailing labels at point of origin, *air freight* to NA, affix postage and 
mail them from there. Just an idea.

But, as you say, it's the consumers' choice. Since there isn't really 
any time sensitive material (I wouldn't be able to pick up any of the 
contest vehicles even if I *did* win) I don't mind waiting a bit for 
the mags and keep my money working for *me*.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:22:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: LRO Magazine.

On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, William L. Leacock wrote:

> publisher makes several times more profit on a subscription magazine than on
> a newsstand sale.Adding to this the fact that the subscription mony is paid
> up front, it can be used to either earn interest or reduce borrowing etc. I
> still believe that subscription purchasers of the magazine get a raw deal.

	I had the numbers once.  EMAP is trying to recover something like 
	3+ million pounds that they spent buying LRO.  What I have never 
	understood is why subscriptions cost more than the newsstand price
	for so long (and with the latest 2 quid increase it will be time
	to do the maths again), considering that subscription money equals
	a guaranteed print run, etc, etc...  Do have some trivia for you.
	This is from ABC, a respected independent firm that rates things
	like the below...  This is as of December 31st, 1995.  (If I had
	the LRW information, I'd happily put it up on the web site too...)

Land Rover Owner:  Established in 1987

Circulation:

     Jan - Jun 1992: 31,967 
     Jul - Dec 1992: 35,777 
     Jan - Jun 1993: 42,653 
     Jul - Dec 1993: 48,248 
     Jan - Jun 1994: 57,110 
     Jul - Dec 1994: 58,386 
     Jan - Jun 1995: 60,724 
     Jul - Dec 1995: 60,751 

Of the 60,751, 52,284 copies went to the UK and Ireland. Of tis, 41,655
were newstrade and other single copy sales, 9,975 were single copy
subscription sales and 424 were regular multiple copy bulk sales. Non
controlled free circulation was 230 copie s. 

Of the 8,467 copies sent to other countries, 4,480 were newstrade and
other single copy sales. 3,805 were single copy subscription sales, and
168 were regular multiple copy bulk sales. Non controlled free circulation
was 14 copies. 

Want to advertise? A double page colour spread will cost you 2,850 pounds.
A full page is 1,500 pounds, a half page 900, and a quarter page 550
pounds

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From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.nwscc.sea06.navy.mil>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:07:35 -500
Subject: Ice Capade Quiz

Ice Capade Quiz,
Why does a LR go better through ice and snow than comparable 4WD 
vehicles?  For this exercise, let us assume equal driver skill levels 
and tires.  M 

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From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: LRO Magazine.
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 14:28:51 GMT

> Want to advertise? A double page colour spread will cost you 2,850 pounds.
> A full page is 1,500 pounds, a half page 900, and a quarter page 550
> pounds

Explains a lot about the cost of parts...

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

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From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.nwscc.sea06.navy.mil>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:00:52 -500

Dave,
Thanks again for your comments!  My search continues for, I think, a 
11A 109.  I need really to drive one to find out.  If you hear of one 
for sale, let me know.  HMN turned up a goose egg this month.

 Arlington VA you say?  I didn't think they had any roads left for the
common man to drive?  Seems I never feel I have escaped the zoo
until about Front Royal.  M   

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:32:43 GMT
From: "T. Stevenson" <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re:  Rangie Steering-play

>Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
>At first I thought it was me, or the wind, but now I'm sure that the 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>there such an adjustment on the '91 Range Rover steering box?  Has anybody 
>else experienced this problem?  

There is an adjuster on top of the steering box. However, I would check such
items as the steering column U/J's, steering gear ball joints and the
Panhard rod bushes before altering it. If it's done up too tight, to try and
mask wear in the rest of the system, then the steering box components will
wear prematurely.

Tom 
________________________________________________________________________
Thomas D.I. Stevenson			gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
SNL Mussel Project			Tel: 01475 530581
University Marine Biological Station, Millport	Fax: 01475 530601
Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland KA28 OEG		http://www.gla.ac.uk/Acad/Marine

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:44:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Happy B-Day

On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, Steve Paustian wrote:

> >Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)
> Happy Birthday to a beautiful and fondly remembered city.

	Tomrrow we will all wish him happy birthday...  :-)

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From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:49:17 -0500
Subject: speedo cable

---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    speedo cable
Date:    96-10-31 09:48:38 EST
From:    RoverNut

Easy to do!
All you've got to do is pull the inner cable out from the sheath ( at the
dash), go to the NAPA and get them to cut you a new one. It's about $6. MAKE
SURE it is the same length. 
If the cable is broken, you'll have to remove it at the tranny end too. Three
screws ~ two are accesssable from the under side, one from the top ( beneath
your center seat. If you have an overdrive it might be a tighter fit getting
in there.
Slide the new cable into the old sheath and twist it gently until it seats
itself into the other end. Reattach at the speedo and Bob's yer uncle.
Good Luck
Alex Maiolo
69 IIa
89 Rangie

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:53:12 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Subscription Prices

 (I wouldn't be able to pick up any of the
>contest vehicles even if I *did* win) I don't mind waiting a bit for
>the mags and keep my money working for *me*.

Tom,was it LRO or LRW that had a S1 which was won by an American?
I think they delivered it..........

cheers
Mike Rooth

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 07:59:10 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: : AIDS (fwd), it's a school project, 

. an
>expirement to see if 
>the e- mail system could be infected with the HIV virus. Please 
>pretend you have been infected and pass this on to someone else.   
>This is an AIDS awareness project it is not meant to offend anyone

Well, now you've gone and infected everyone on the list, you shameless hussy!
You really oughta get to know 'em a little better first...

Hee Hee
Dave b.

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 08:01:22 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Sea/Ocean Rover

>. Two weeks ago, Ocean
>>Rover came to a grinding halt in mid-ocean when it crashed into a large shark,
>>killing the beast.
>Ayup! Seafood roadkill.All in the finest tradition:-)

Wont quite fit on the manifold eh? Fetch the tow rope mates!

Dave B.

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 07:45:13 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: High Parts Cost?

If you're in the US, British Pacific is generally your best price high
quality parts source.

Usually true, but sometimes their price is twice that of ROvers North, or 
slightly more for an aftermarket part. Its best to shop around...the differences
can be staggering. I bought bulkhead pieces from both suppliers. RN's doorposts 
were about 1/2 BP's price, and vice versa for the footwells. 
I bought my O/D from BP for $680, I wonder why RN has to charge $850??? Anybody 
from RN out there? Are you listening?

Dave B.

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:58:38 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: LRO Magazine.

 Want to advertise? A double page colour spread will cost you 2,850 pounds.
>> A full page is 1,500 pounds, a half page 900, and a quarter page 550
>> pounds
>Explains a lot about the cost of parts...

Also explains why Craddock now advertises more in LRW than LRO.
Mike Rooth

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From: JDolan2109@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:06:52 -0500
Subject: Re: the rub of the hub...

Permanantly locked free-wheeling hubs here. Functioned as 'side clearance
indicators' just a few times too many. Last time I had them apart, I had to
lock one with a hammer and punch after doing what I could and reassembling.
That was the last time that will happen. If they worked, I'd likely use them,
but will probably remove them the next time I'm in there. Never noticed any
difference in mileage, just noise....
see 'ya on the old road...
Jim '61 LR 88" SW  w/ 16's, OD 1 Bbl weber (econobox?)  "Nicky"
LR...quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised!  

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From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@aae.wisc.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:07:20 +0000
Subject: Re: Subscription Prices

Mike asks:
> Tom,was it LRO or LRW that had a S1 which was won by an American?
> I think they delivered it..........

Didn't know about that. But I *never* win. :-(  That's why I don't play 
the lottery.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:30:55 -0500
From: Jeffrey A Berg <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Subject: Re: LROI

>Its good to have international and US articles, but not loads every month.
>Obviously, the Yanks will disagree here, so two editions might be an idea?
>Advertising could also be split accordingly?

Two editions would weaken the publication.  So long as they keep reporting
on stuff that's interesting I don't really care where the stories
originate.  They shouldn't have "loads" of U.S. based stuff every month as,
by comparison, we're relatively "inactive" over here.  But an article a
month -- coverage of the major gatherings, or a piece on some journey or
major resoration, would be appreciated.  The same can be said for other
"international" locales.

As the publication is Land Rover Owner *International*, one might argue
that less of a bias towards Britian is necessary.  This isn't to say you
should have loads of U.S. based articles, but rather that in any given
month, the International coverage should make up a significant portion of
the magazine.  Let's see more from Africa, Australia, New Zealand and South
and Central American countries.  Are there Rovers in Greenland?  Iceland?
Antartica?  -- Let's hear about them.

My "personal" bias would be towards *less* coverage of hybrid trials and
all-out racing.  (Except of course I think that there should be pictures of
the Simmonite sisters in every issue -- but lose the helmets!)  Some of
those vehicles have less claim to being Land-Rovers than does a J**p
Cherokee.  But hey, that's me.  I prefer reading about people using their
Rovers to go to exotic places.

I'm not asking that trials and trials motors be totally ignored. I enjoyed
the article in the November LRW on Dave Marsh's QT Services -- probably
because it gave you a glimpse of the man and his engineering philosophy
rather than just telling us that he placed 3rd at some Hill Rally.
(Sometimes I feel like entire rally articles could be reduced to box
scores.)

I enjoy coverage of club events that involve *real* Land-Rovers, especially
U.S. events that I've attended, but I don't like the type of article that
reads like a laundry list of everyone in attendance -- with nothing to add
in the way of plot.  (Box scores again?)  Tell a story!  I think that BOTH
LR magazines have done a pretty good job of this in the articles on U.S.
club events.  Some of the British coverage is a bit dry if  you don't know
the people, especially because you don't feel you know them any better
after reading about them.  Is this just me?  Is it a "Yank" thing?

>From an editorial standpoint, good articles are good articles, and improved
international coverage can only broaden the pool from which stories are
chosen.

My biggest complaints are high cost -- regardless of how you obtain the
magazine (I choose the news stand) and the long wait to receive the
"current" issue.  Of the two, I'd lean towards keeping the cost where it
is, but getting the thing to the news stand sooner, but once again, this is
opinion.  Within reason, I'm price insensitive, but I demand quality and
service for the price.  I suppose one way I could address that is by
subscribing and ignoring the lack of savings that I'd normally expect to
receive by doing so.  In effect, I'm paying "more" to get the magazine
sooner.

To be completely fair, LROI is priced in line with other international
special interest magazines that I see on the news stand.  However, it seems
that it might be moving out of the realm of "minor market" here in the U.S.
My local Barnes & Noble bookstore used to get a total of six copies of LRW
per month.  (And there are five people somewhere in the area who are
seriously pissed that I bought all of the February stock the moment it
arrived.)  A few months back, they added LROI to the stable, and have been
increasing the number of copies of LRW steadily.  As of last night, there
were around 8 copies of the September LRW remaining and 14 of the November
LRW available.  Still no sign of the "new" LROI though.  Distribution would
seem to need major attention.

While two editions might be out of line, I do wonder about the possibility
of devoting certain pages or sections to "regional" advertising.  I realize
that there are production costs and headaches involved, but what's the
possibility of having a (locally produced?) advertising section that helps
reduce the cost for U.S. purchasers.  This section might be a supplement,
but advertisers would probably prefer that their ads be worked in around
the editorial content  -- which means some "British" ads would have to be
replaced, and the ad rates for those advertisers adjusted accordingly. As I
say, it wouldn't surprise me if the costs outweigh the benefits, but it
merits consideration.

In short, thanks for the positive improvements, but keep working at it, I'd
hate to see LROI lose the ground it's gained.

==
 Jeffrey A. Berg     Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT
                    jeff@purpleshark.com
                     ==================
	My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
	My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
	Taste for the good life,
	I can see it no other way.
		--Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 07:27:41 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re2: Subscription Prices

At 08:16 AM 10/31/96, Tom Rowe" <trowe@aae.wisc.edu> wrote:
:>By the exhange rate of 10-23 1GBP=$1.5974 US. That comes to slightly 
:>over $7.00US per issue.
:>It seems a more economical way (maybe) would to be to affix the 
:>mailing labels at point of origin, *air freight* to NA, affix postage and 
:>mail them from there. Just an idea.

 Good point, Tom!!  Mailing UK magazines in the US in bulk is a common
 and economical practice.  Their argument may be that not enough issues
 are being shipped here.  To make LROi even more attractive, perhaps
 several of us could 'share' subscriptions and pass the issues around.
 The club library concept...  "Just going to the pub, Dear, to catch up
 on my, err... reading! (Yea, that's it :)"

 Regards,
                       ______
 Michael Carradine     [__[__\==                           Rupert '72-88
 510-988-0900          [________]                 Land-Rover Roughmobile
 cs@crl.com _________.._(o)__.(o)____...o^^^  www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 07:36:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Dissention in the Yanks

At 04:01 PM 10/30/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I bought my IIa brand spankin' new in 1970, and drove her as a "working 
>Rover" for the first ten years (constant off-road/no-road, income 
>producing means of transportation).  I bought her without hubs, because 

Although I do try to take public transit, my rover is on occasion, an
"income producing means of transportation" in that if I don't get there, I
don't get paid.  Nothing less valid than that.  (Yes, it doesn't take
advantage of all the the rover's capabilities, but then, neither does your
"constant off-road/no-road" driving -- how often do you get into 4th in
those dituations?)

>...And unlike you 4WD "hobbyists" exploring the trackless wilderness of 

I could make a comment about all you computer "hobbyists", but I won't...

>used advantage in the bush.  I just don't agree with your position that 
>hubs are "a viable option that increases the versatility of the Land 
>Rover".  In the enviorment that the LR was designed for, they do just the 
>opposite.

My LR came with 4 gears each, high and low range.  I can't say for sure that
earlier models had the same, but my '59 did.  Top speed in 4th, 2.25l, no
OD, is somewhere around 55mph.  So it sure as hell seems like the LR was
designed to do that sort of speed.   I doubt very much that it was intended
to do that kind of speed in your all-off-road situation.  

In actuality, My impression was that it (at least later models like mine)
was designed to be a highly versatile machine, equally at home in the bush
and on the expressway.  So in the "environment that the LR was designed
for," they *DO* "increase the versatility" by improving gas mileage and
reducing drag.

>From a purely technical standpoint, Whether or not you use them, or have
need for them, or even like them, they *do* make the LR more versatile, by
the very fact that they provide additional configuration possibilities.  As
in 4wd and 2wd vs. 4wd, 2wd locked, and 2wd unlocked.  See?  Three choices
versus two.  That's more versatile, whether or not the additional choices
are applicable to your particular situation.

In my situation, the majority of my "hobbyist" usage is in getting to places
where there is off-highway driving, rather than the off-highway travel
itself.  So they are a definite benefit.  Just like you can get along with
your adequate, hobbyist software, whilst I need a fully developed,
professional system.  I don't need a little voice telling me "you've got
mail"; I don't even have a sound card.  Your needs, however, are different,
and it makes sense for you.  (Just because I don't need a sound card doesn't
mean I think they're useless.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 07:36:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Subscription Prices

At 08:39 PM 10/30/96 -0500, you wrote:
>A new subcription for North America costs GBP57 for 13 issues.  This price
>includes air mail which, being of British origin is very expensive.  This is
>about US$86 or US$6.62 delivered to your door.

At Barnes & Noble, LRW (they don't carry LRO) is $6.50US per issue.  Not
worth it to pay up front.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:42:24 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Subscription Prices

Tom Laments:

>Didn't know about that. But I *never* win. :-(  That's why I don't play
>the lottery.
>Tom Rowe

Me neither.But the way I look at it is that I've won whatever I would
have staked every week since it started.I just dont know what happens
to the winnings though.....
Mike Rooth

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From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@aae.wisc.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:05:08 +0000
Subject: Re: Re2: Subscription Prices

Michael Carradine writes:
snip
>  several of us could 'share' subscriptions and pass the issues around.
-
Share!? You must be kidding. My issues are MINE. MINE, MINE, ALL MINE!
;-)

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 11:05:20 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Subscription Prices

>Tom,was it LRO or LRW that had a S1 which was won by an American?
>I think they delivered it..........

LRW. Same iss. as last years Mid Atlantic article with a bad picture of me. 
The guy still had to pay his own shipping...

Keep hope alive!
Dave B.

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:46:34 -0500
From: NateDunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Electrical weirdness

Hi all,

Driving to work today, I found that my fuel gauge, water temp gauge,
wiper brakelights and turn indicators all stopped working.  Headlights
charge light, and oil pressure lamp all work.  If I remove the lower
fuse there's no change. If I remove the upper fuse headlamps etc go
dead. If I switch fuses no change from the original.  Looked behind the
instrument panel and all is well (hooked up).

Question: could this be due to poor contact across the lower fuse? 
What else could it be? (no comments Dave)

Everything worked yesterday.
-- 
Nate Dunsmore
88" SIIa ("The Blue Brick" http://members.aol.com/naddmd/first.htm )
dunsmo19@us.net

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:19:34 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Dissention in the Yanks

  I showed her the
>picture of the military LR on a set of ramps set up at 45 degrees,

Ummm.I've seen a picture of a double-decker bus at 35 deg.Wouldnt
like to be on the upper deck,though...

Mike Rooth

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 11:32:44 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Electrical weirdness

Nate does battle with the dark lord...

>Driving to work today, I found that my fuel gauge, water temp gauge,
>wiper brakelights and turn indicators all stopped working.
>Question: could this be due to poor contact across the lower fuse? 
>What else could it be? (no comments Dave)

Fine I'll just keep my mouth shut. Never mind that I know exactly what your 
problem is...:)

Check for continuity across the fuse contacts, check to see you are getting 
power at the leads going into the fuse box, check the power from the ignition 
switch to the fusebox. Also there's probably a ground wire that goes from the 
black accessory plug to somewhere on the body. This is the ground for the whole 
panel (at least on a SIII) if that'sd not grounded everything goes haywire) try 
jumepring the grounds to a known good ground, and see what happens.

Good luck...
Dave 
See, no comments.

BTW, IF you cant get it to work I'll be glad to come show you how to fix 
it...for a few of your Watneys...:-)
Everything worked yesterday.

-- 
Nate Dunsmore
88" SIIa ("The Blue Brick" http://members.aol.com/naddmd/first.htm )
dunsmo19@us.net

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From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:43:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Electrical weirdness

In a message dated 96-10-31 11:15:51 EST, you write:

>Everything worked yesterday.

wait until tomorrow.... it will most likely work again
Rgds
Steve

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From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:08:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Dissention in the Yanks

>Actually, we can shift on the fly too. I just have to lock my hubs at the 
>beginning of the day, and VOILA, its the same as yours!

Yes, you're right, but...

1.  Hubs cost money.  If your truck already has them no big deal, but to 
spend money to add them (I think this is where this thread started) they 
are not worth it.
2.  Hubs do little or nothing for feul ecconomy (recent postings), 
nothing for noise, add little to performance, and, in my experience, 
don't decrease front axle wear.
3.  Hubs add complexity to a very simple machine.  
4.  Hubs are two more parts that can freeze-up or break (recent posts).
5.  Hubs can increase the risk of drive-train damage (recent posts).
6.  Hubs require their own maintenance schedule.
7.  Hubs have to be locked & unlocked (no big deal unless it's raining, 
you're in the mud, it's at night, it's freezing, or they're stuck).
8.  And, at least in my experience, you can't always predict when you'll 
need 4WD, and in many situations MOMENTUM COUNTS!

Sorry about the "hobbyist" crack.

Anthony R. Sanna
SACO Foods, Inc.
Middleton, WI  53562
1-800-373-7226

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From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:08:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Rangie Steering-play

>There is an adjuster on top of the steering box. However, I would check such
>items as the steering column U/J's, steering gear ball joints and the
>Panhard rod bushes before altering it. If it's done up too tight, to try and
>mask wear in the rest of the system, then the steering box components will
>wear prematurely.

My '89 was a real wandering Rover, too.  I tried everything to get the 
white whale to swim straight (alignment, shims, wheel bearings, steering 
box adjust, balance, tires, shocks), but what fixed it were new bushings 
all around, not just the panhard.  Replacing the panhards helped (the 
mechanic told me that the rear bushings were ok), but when I replaced the 
rears later on, that finally did it.  When I got my '90 RR I just put new 
bushings in as a matter of course.

When I tightened up the steering box on the '89 RR, not only did it not 
help the steering, but it prevented the wheels from re-centering after a 
turn.  The steering wheel had a real "dead" feel to it.

Cranking down the steering box adjuster really puts abnormal wear on the 
gears.  I know.  I did it on my IIa once and ended up with incredible 
wear spots in the turning circle in no time at all, and a whole new 
steering box & column shortly there after.  It's sort of a sawdust in the 
transmission trick.  

Anthony R. Sanna
SACO Foods, Inc.
Middleton, WI  53562
1-800-373-7226

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From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:08:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Yankin' the hubs again

>One thing that hasn't been discussed yet is the reduced wear on the front
>diff and propshaft when you've got the hubs unlocked.  

Yes it has.  My '70 IIa still has its "factory" front end after 331,000 
miles.

Anthony R. Sanna
SACO Foods, Inc.
Middleton, WI  53562
1-800-373-7226

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:22:17 +0200
From: pwakefie@isd3.esrin.esa.it (Paul Wakefield - System Manager (SERCO) X492)
Subject: One coil on my wagon.

From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Hotter coils, welded points

> The purpose of a ballast resistor on the coil is to provide a hotter spark
> for easier starts.  Typically, there is a separate wire directly to the coil 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> 8 bolts or so...which supposedly prolongs the life of the various ignition 
> components.  Cheers

Nope, Nearly there, When I was at school we were told that the ballast resistor 
was out of circuit for starting and in circuit (ie. 7-8 volts supplied to coil) 
when running to compensate for the volt drop caused by the starter motor load on 
the battery when cranking.

If the points are welding themselves together, then the condensor (capacitor) is 
not functioning well or at all. The condensor soaks up the voltage induced in 
the low tension (LT) circuit (200 volts or so I think) caused by the collapse of 
the field in the coil which creates the HT on the coil output.

>From: Nathaniel Council <council@gcnet.com>
>Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: FWD: Re: AIDS (fwd), it's a school project, send it on

Who let this idiot in ?
Just when you thought you were safe from the newsgroup spammers .....

Cheers, See you after the weekend. (Tomorrow is a national Holiday in Italy !!)

Paul.

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From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:32:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Dissention in the Yanks

>they *do* make the LR more versatile, by
>the very fact that they provide additional configuration possibilities.  As
>in 4wd and 2wd vs. 4wd, 2wd locked, and 2wd unlocked.  See?  Three choices
>versus two.  

  Hey Roger...  Do you have an overdrive?  I figure that with your 4 
speeds forward and 1 reverse configured in 2W unlocked H, 2W locked H, 
4WH,4WL x overdrive in and out, you'd have a 36 speed Rover.  Wow!

Anthony R. Sanna
SACO Foods, Inc.
Middleton, WI  53562
1-800-373-7226

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From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:32:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Dissention in the Yanks

>(Yes, it doesn't take
>advantage of all the the rover's capabilities, but then, neither does your
>"constant off-road/no-road" driving -- how often do you get into 4th in
>those dituations?)

Plenty of times.  The usual mix was highway, ranch road, dirt road, 
paved, rock, ruts, mud, no road, etc.  Even a graded ranch road is an 
easy 4th gear, and it wasn't uncommon to tootle over a rise at 35-40 mph 
right into a muddy arroyo shifting on the fly!

Anthony R. Sanna
SACO Foods, Inc.
Middleton, WI  53562
1-800-373-7226

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From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:32:18 -0500
Subject: Re: SerIII Heater Fan Blades

Rob,

There was a blurb in LROI last spring about using an aftermarket six blade
fan from an MGB.  I ordered one from Seven Enterprises, Ltd. in Newport News,
VA (1-800-992-7007).  Is backordered, but supposed to be here in early Nov.
 You could order one from the MGBeehive in the UK (check Practical Classics
magazine) or there is a place in Kansas (near where the Flatlands Land Rover
Society is) that specializes in BL cars.

FWIW,

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

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From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.nwscc.sea06.navy.mil>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:33:22 -500
Subject: Watneys?

Dave,
What is a "Watneys"?
M

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 12:40:40 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Yankin' the hubs again

>>  My '70 IIa still has its "factory" front end after 331,000 
miles.

I'll have to agree with Tony here. If everything is properly looked after here, 
there's no reason why the swivels, axle and propshaft u-joints, and differential
shouldn't last basically forever. The only thing up there that I imgine would go
bad would be the non-greasable tie rod ends. If the rear diff can survive being 
run constantly then there's no reason why the front can't be as well, and 
besides, when the 4WD isn't engaged, that stuff is not under load and is just 
spinning freely. I have seen some pretty badly worn swivels, obviously due to 
lack of lubrication. You DO have to lock those puppies every now and then... 
The only time you are saving wear on the front drivetrain is when it is not 
properly lubricated.

Dave B.

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:45:31 -0500
From: Brad F Worls <bworls@ovnet.com>
Subject: Re: Dissention in the Yanks

WOW!  Just last week there was a horse standing here.  Now the thing
has been flogged into a red stain @Land-Rover.Team.Net.  Geeseh  remind
me not to stand in one place too long.  >:-=DE
				Brad

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 12:53:44 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[4]: Dissention in the Yanks

>.1.  Hubs cost money.  If your truck already has them no big deal, but to 
spend money to add them (I think this is where this thread started) they 
are not worth it.

I'd buy a used set of the old WARNs, that's about it. Otherwise I'd go without 
too.

>>2.  Hubs do little or nothing for feul ecconomy (recent postings), 
nothing for noise, add little to performance, and, in my experience, 
don't decrease front axle wear.

I do notice a distinct reduction in the noise level and uphill loss of power.

>>3.  Hubs add complexity to a very simple machine.  

True, but, the Rover, despite its simplicity (or due to it) is already pretty 
high maintenance...I have to do something almost daily So FWH's are not much 
more to think about. I will admit that its a pain to get into the hub for seal 
and bearing work though. Just one more gasket to deal with.

>>4.  Hubs are two more parts that can freeze-up or break (recent posts).

Looking at the innards of the WARN, they seem very robust. The only way I could 
see them being damaged is if improperly installed or not completely locked or 
unlocked before running. They get lubrication from the axle/swivel too.

>>5.  Hubs can increase the risk of drive-train damage (recent posts).

I usually don't have to shift on the fly. If I go out off-road I lock em up 
while Im still on the pavement.

>>6.  Hubs require their own maintenance schedule.

I haven't done any...=:-O

>>7.  Hubs have to be locked & unlocked (no big deal unless it's raining, 
you're in the mud, it's at night, it's freezing, or they're stuck).

>> See number six

>>8.  And, at least in my experience, you can't always predict when you'll 
need 4WD, and in many situations MOMENTUM COUNTS!

Again pretty much irelevant out here...unfortunatley...

>>Sorry about the "hobbyist" crack.

Apoplogy accepted. :-)

Cheers
Dave B.

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 12:56:09 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Watneys?

Dave,
What is a "Watneys"?
M

Watneys Red Barrell...I belive that's Mr. Dunsmore's favorite brew...one of mine
too, mingles nicely with the scent of 90wt...good for quenching the thirst while
working on the Rover.

Yeeha...there's your LR content!
Dave B.

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:46:59 -0500
From: Mike Johnson <johnsonm@borg.com>
Subject: simple solution

Doesn't matter if its FWH, coil-springers, LROi, RN, AB, Paddock,
Craddock, WD-40, Dura-lube, KY-Jelly, duct-tape or gaffer's tape.  If
you like it buy it,  if you don't like it DON'T BUY IT!!!  I understand
taking a position from experience but this is starting to look like
rec.auto.lro.moan.  Let's let some of these threads die.  Do something
contructive, crawl under and polish your big chrome balls.

-- 
Michael E. Johnson
http://www.borg.com/~johnsonm
johnsonm@borg.com

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 13:04:06 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Dissention in the Yanks

>WOW!  Just last week there was a horse standing here.  Now the thing
>has been flogged into a red stain @Land-Rover.Team.Net. 

Well is it dead yet? Let us know so we can start beating it...:-P
Dave B.

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 13:09:10 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Thermo fit...

I read of a one barrel Weber in use.  Tell me more?  Was this a 
factory option?  Might someone know the throat size?  
Mark

Weber 34ICH, Ive got one. It doesn't like to idle on choke, and some say it 
produces a distinct loss of power. I cant say for sure. But mine seems to run 
nicely overall and is quite nippy in the pedal. Mileage is supposed to be better
but I think its a crock, I get 10-12 local and 15 highway. Haven't measure dit 
with the OD yet. I imagine it isn't much different. The throat is a bit smaller 
than the standard Zenith and the 34 in the name i guess is the size of the 
throttle plate? or is it the venturi opening?
Not a factory option, but a common conversion.
Dave b.

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 13:11:03 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: simple solution

Doesn't matter if its FWH, coil-springers, LROi, RN, AB, Paddock,
>.  Let's let some of these threads die.  Do something
>contructive, crawl under and polish your big chrome balls.

I can't. Mine have gaiters on them, like any sensible Rover owner's would...
Ok I just lit the match...who wants to be the fuse...

Dave B.

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From: "John J. Tackley" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:16:41 -500
Subject: (Fwd) Eezibleed Info

Warning:  Long post.  Scroll down if not interested in EZBleed.

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:          John.Abbott@ssc.siemens.com
Date:          30 Oct 96 13:24:43 -0500
Subject:       Eezibleed Info

>As promised, LRO list, Here is the info I have in electronic format.  
>(Again, I have no connection to EZBleed.  [JT])

Thank you for inquiring about Eezibleed...
The best tool for bleeding brakes.
Thats what my customers say and you will too when you bleed your brakes with 
Eezibleed. Eezibleed is a one-man pressure bleeding kit manufactured by Gunson 
Ltd. in the United Kingdom. where it received the Automobile Association seal 
of approval for design excellence. For years Eezibleed has been a secret kept by
 thousands of English car enthusiasts, but now the time and money saving 
features of Eezibleed are available to other European car owners. The patented 
Eezibleed kit contains caps that fit many European cars such as BMW, Mercedes, 
VW, Volvo, Fiat, Saab, Porsche, Audi, Lotus, Alfa, Austin-Healey, MGB, etc. 
Over the past several years Eezibleed received positive reviews in several car 
club publications such as the Mercedes-Benz Star, March 1993, the BMWCCA 
Roundel, November 1993, the Volvo Rolling, November 1994, the Golden Gate Lotus 
newsletter, June 1992, the M3 special interest group newsletter, the M3 
newsletter spring 1995, and the  Rundschreiben, a BMW chapter newsletter, May 
1993. 
Heres how I discovered Eezibleed.
I discovered Eezibleed by chance in 1991. When I replaced the master cylinder 
in my Audi 5000 I read in the Haynes manual about a pressure bleeding kit that 
worked off the spare tire. The idea sounded so terrific that I had to have it. 
I dislike bleeding brakes and never changed brake fluid as a preventative 
action, which may explain why the brake cylinder failed. I queried my usual 
mail order sources but couldnt find Eezibleed. One day  while talking shop with 
an English buddy and lamenting about my search for THE pressure bleeder, my 
friend said he used the product years ago in England! On his next trip home he 
brought back an Eezibleed and the rest is history.
Whats the best method of bleeding brakes?
Pressure bleeding is a quick and effective method of changing brake fluid. 
Brake system manufacturers like ATE recommend pressure bleeding because it is 
fast and foolproof. Check your reservoir. If you own a European car there is a 
good chance the reservoir and brake components are made by ATE.
Eezibleed is functionally equivalent to commercial pressure bleeding tanks 
costing five times more. Besides price, these tanks are not suited for the home 
mechanic because to work properly they need lots of fluid. They are made for 
shops that do volume bleeding. An adapter is extra and its costly. The secret 
of the Eezibleed kit is the reservoir cap. It fits correctly and makes a tight 
seal at an affordable price. 
Eezibleed eliminates all the hassles that have frustrated car owners from 
bleeding their own brakes: one-man operation, no pedal pumping, no air, dirt, 
or moisture left in. The fast, smooth one way fluid flow ensures perfect fluid 
replacement.
My customers agree. They have found Eezibleed to be more effective than other 
tools, like the vacuum pump. (Theyre tired of the excessive hand pumping 
required by the vacuum pump and high effort required to change out brake fluid) 
>.
Heres how Eezibleed works.
The Eezibleed kit consists of a pressure bottle that holds about 1 pint of new 
brake fluid, a hose with a cap to fit the fluid reservoir of your car, and an 
air hose that connects to the spare tire. Air pressure should not exceed 20 
psi. When both hoses are connected just open each bleeder screw in turn, like a 
faucet, until clean fluid appears. 
The plastic cap fits ALL European cars equipped with an ATE brake reservoir. 
One of the small  metal caps fits all Beetles and its derivatives, 
Transporters, etc. 
If no cap fits a particular round reservoir opening, several options are 
possible: adapting the existing cap, using the optional multi-purpose cap, or 
purchasing an adapter from NAPA, Snap-on, K-D Tools, etc., and mating it to 
Eezibleed. Information on adapting the existing cap is given in the Eezibleed 
instructions. I recommend that you buy a used cap from a salvage yard and not 
fiddle with the existing cap. CAUTION: Dont drill through a cap that has a 
diaphragm, like Bendix and Delco Moraine caps have; buy an adapter. Eezibleed 
will not work with  plastic GM reservoirs unless you use a special K-D Tools 
adapter. 
The multi-purpose cap fits round reservoir opening up to 67 mm or 2 5/8. It can 
be used on any car with a twist on or snap on reservoir cap. Special straps 
secure the multi-purpose cap to the reservoir. The reservoir should be shaped 
so the straps can fit around it. If the reservoir is six inches wide on each 
side of the reservoir opening, the multi-purpose cap probably wont fit.
Heres my policy 
Eezibleed is only $35, including shipping and handling.  You might find 
Eezibleed in some English car parts catalogs, but it is typically priced at 
$40, without shipping. To keep my prices low and avoid unnecessary overhead I 
dont accept credit cards, so please send a check or money order. Delivery time 
is three to five days via priority mail. You can also order COD for an 
additional $2.00. 
Your satisfaction is guaranteed. If Eezibleed is not the fastest and most 
effective bleeding tool you have ever  used just return it within 30 days for a 
NO HASSLE refund. If you have further questions please write or call. Thanks.

Supplemental Instructions 

Please read these instructions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Always test for leaks before filling Eezibleed with brake fluid.

Porsche owners: Your car brake reservoir may have an over flow tube. The 
overflow tube must be closed off  before pressurizing the hydraulic system, 
otherwise the new fluid will spill onto the ground. Either plug the end of the 
overflow tube or remove the tube from the reservoir and cap the reser-voir 
nipple us-ing plastic tubing with a plug in the end.

To avoid any risk of  spilled brake fluid wrap the reservoir cap with a rag. If 
brake fluid should spill flush immediately with water. While brake fluid can 
ruin paint it does not ruin paint on contact. 

Mercedes owners: An early '80s Mercedes owner reported that the two flu-id 
lev-el sen-sors lo-cat-ed on the res-er-voir popped up after pressurizing the 
reservoir. He felt that the rubber around the sen-sors  had deteriorated and 
that this was an exceptional case. This is the only reported incident out of 
two hundred Mercedes owners who purchased Eezibleed.  

The plastic 44mm cap fits most European cars such as Porsche, BMW, Audi, VW 
(Rabbit), Saab, Fiat, Mercedes, Volvo, etc., with ATE master cylinder 
reservoir. The 27mm metal cap fits Bugs, and its derivatives, Ghia, Microbus, 
Transporter, etc. 

This section should not apply to German cars, but it does provide useful 
information if you want to use Eezibleed on your American or Japanese car(s). 
If no cap fits a particular round reservoir opening, several options are 
possible: adapting the existing cap, purchasing the optional multi purpose cap, 
or purchasing an adapter from NAPA, Snap-on, K-D Tools, etc., and mating it to 
Eezibleed. Information on adapting the existing cap is given in the Eezibleed 
instructions. I recommend that you buy a used cap from a salvage yard and not 
fiddle with the existing cap. CAUTION: Don't drill through a cap that has a 
diaphragm, as found on Bendix and Delco Moraine caps; buy an adapter. Plastic 
GM reservoirs with a snap on cap need a special adapter  made by K-D Tools, 
Snap-on Tools, etc. This special adapter is over $30..

The multi purpose cap fits round reservoir openings up to 67 mm or 2 5/8". It 
can be used on any car that has a twist on or snap on round reservoir opening. 
Special straps secure the multi purpose cap to the reservoir. The reservoir 
should be shaped so that the straps can fit around it. If the reservoir is six 
inches wide on each side of the opening, the multi purpose cap probably won't 
fit properly.

To make the job as easy as possible I've seated the gasket in the cap that fits 
your reservoir and connected the cap to the plastic hose. Once the tire 
connection is made and the system is pressurized you should hear no hissing 
sounds.

To be certain that the set up works for you, test for leaks before filling the 
plastic bottle with brake fluid. Attach the cap to the reservoir and pressurize 
the system.

If you hear hissing sounds, check for the source(s). Leaks can occur in the 
reservoir cap, the bottle cap, or the tire chuck.

Reservoir cap leaking:

1. Tighten the reservoir cap.

2. Look through the top of the cap (opaque caps only) to see if the gasket is 
seated all the way around. If the gasket is not seated, then remove the cap and 
try to re-seat the gasket. Make sure the outer edge of the gasket is under the 
cap threads. Since the fit is not perfect the gasket will bow. Al-low, the 
gasket to bow from the inner edge not the outer edge. If re-seating the gasket 
fails, trim the gasket so it lays flat in the cap. Remove just a small amount 
of rubber (1mm) from the outer edge.

Bottle cap leaking:

3. Tighten it, but don't over-tighten. Over-tightening might ruin the gasket.

Tire chuck:

4. The tire chuck should not leak. A small percentage (1%) do. If air is 
leaking from the tire chuck and you're inconvenienced by it, call me on my toll 
free number and ask for a replacement, free. A leaky tire chuck will wont stop 
you from pressurizing the brake system but you will lose more air from the air 
source than would  normally be the case.  

People sometimes ask what happens to the air in the reservoir after  the 
hydraulic system is pressurized. Upon pressurizing the hydraulic system the air 
that was in the reservoir remains there. It is not pushed out into the lines. 
If you look closely you will see a bubble at the top of  the reservoir. This 
bubble stays there throughout the bleeding operation.

The Eezibleed instructions recommend a pressure of 20 psi.  Since tires are 
typically inflated to 36 psi, you'll need an alternate air supply. Use the 
spare tire deflated to 20 psi. Don't deflate the front tire.  The air source 
should be ambient temperature to avoid condensation. Never use a tire that is 
hot from being op-erated. Racers please take note.

When you disconnect the air supply, fluid will be drawn back into the bottle 
allowing you to remove the cap without wor-rying about fluid spilling. The air 
bubble that was in the reservoir keeps the fluid just below the reservoir's 
neck.

After disconnecting Eezibleed the reservoir may be over the full mark. To bring 
the level down, purchase a cheap basting tool and draw off the excess fluid or 
crack a bleeder after disconnecting Eezibleed to drain off some fluid.

The plastic hoses will cloud from prolonged contact with brake fluid, but this 
is merely cos-metic. I recommend that you empty the pressure bottle for 
storage. You can wash the pressure bottle, gaskets, and cap with water, but 
don't use soap. Let them air dry. After drying, put Eezibleed in a plas-tic zip 
lock bag to keep it clean. 

Fluid flow is controlled by how much the bleeder screw is opened and the 
pressure applied. Open the bleeder screw slowly until a smooth steady stream 
occurs. The action is similar to turning on a faucet. Fluid flows more slowly 
from the rear lines than the front. The flow rate in the rear is about the same 
as if a helper was pumping the brake pedal. Don't be concerned, it's normal. 
The flow rate in the front is stronger but not so strong that it causes 
splashing or splattering; it is still easily controlled. You can experiment 
with greater air pressure so that the fluid flow in the rear lines is faster. 
About 35 psi seems to be the limit.

Drain the old brake fluid into a plastic/glass jar and dispose of it properly 
according to local environmental regula-tions. Please don't pollute. 

My 1982 733i has a strainer in the brake reservoir that hinders fluid flow. 
Strainers typically have screened cutouts to let flu-id pass through but mine 
had two tiny holes. Before connecting the Eezibleed cap remove the strainer and 
remember to put it back after disconnecting Eezibleed.

Some owners report that the Eezibleed bottle gasket is affected by racing brake 
fluid. If you experience any gasket deterioration from any type of brake fluid 
please call and Ill provide new gaskets, free of charge.

If no fluid is flowing from a brake line try another line. No fluid flow can be 
caused by a blockage in the brake line. Loosening stuck nipples with vice grips 
or pliers can cause the nipple to break off. The fix is a new caliper! Ouch. 
Better to leave the old fluid in the line than break off the nipple.

Eezibleed is not a perfect tool but it does make an annoying, but necessary 
job, acceptable. If you're expe-rienced at brake bleeding you'll see the 
advantages immedi-ately. If you've never changed fluid before you might be 
turned off by the job rather than the tool. Feed-back means a lot. Let me know 
how you make out.

John Abbott

John 
*** John J. Tackley, Richmond, VA ***
* '74 SIII 88" "Gen. P. Lee" *
* '81 300SD *
* '89 FLHS "OINK" (That'l do, pig) *

------------------------------
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From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@bestinforsg.com>
Subject: RE: Watneys?
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 13:18:00 PST

Watneys Cream Stoudt is also very good! (The best stoudt I've ever   
tasted.)

Douglas Boehme
'95 Red D90 #2767

 ----------
From:  LRO-Owner[SMTP:LRO-Owner@playground.sun.com]
Sent:  Thursday, October 31, 1996 12:56 PM
Subject:  Re: Watneys?

Dave,
What is a "Watneys"?
M

Watneys Red Barrell...I belive that's Mr. Dunsmore's favorite brew...one   
of
mine
too, mingles nicely with the scent of 90wt...good for quenching the   
thirst
while
working on the Rover.

Yeeha...there's your LR content!
Dave B.

------------------------------
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From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 31 Oct 96 13:28:43 EST
Subject: Re: Watneys?

------------------------------
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From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar-MS)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:45:33 -0600
Subject: Rover + synth blend oil

Hi all,

Just wanted to pass this on. Two weeks ago I changed over to valvoline   
synthethic blended oil, 10w-40, in my IIa for the winter.

It got its first test this morning, 14 degrees F. The LR lives outside   
(for a while yet) and I hadn't run it in about 36 hours, so it was good   
and cold.

Half choke and VROOOM! it started right up with nary a slow crank or   
hesitation. I hope to reap some of the synthetic benefits like keeping it   
more liquid in colder temps without paying the full price for straight   
synthetic.

Just thought I'd let everyone know in case they were wondering about   
these new oils; there may be some value other than marketing hype...

Tim
 ---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW  

------------------------------
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From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:48:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Irie good time, mon!

Regarding LRs in the tropics:

Last May I flew down to San Salvador island in the Bahamas with some friends.  
Flying low down the length of Cat island (very sparsely populated), we came 
across a building site, miles from nowhere.  parked in the center was a green 
SIII 109 P/U.  My friends couldn't understand why I was so excited....

Oh well...

Eric

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From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:48:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: ice capades

One of the best aspects for a tire to have when dealing with ice and snow is 
something called "siping (sp?).  This means thousands of small slits cut into 
the tread.  I'm not sure on the physics but they definitely make a difference as 
opposed to the large lug floatation tires that are fitted standard on many new 
4x4s.  

When the going gets tough, however, chains are the only way to go.  During last 
year's big storms, I was enlisted by a friend of mine who is a visiting nurse to 
held drive MDs and RNs around.  Chains make the difference.  I fit a set to the 
front of my rover (better steering and braking) and I was absolutely 
unstoppable.  When driving for the docs, most others would have to circle the 
block to wait as they couldn't park.  I just picked the largests snowbank, 
engaged low box, and drove right up.  I imagine the sight of a bright red rover 
perched on the top of a snowbank in Yonkers was just too much for some!

BTW, when there's no traffic, driving with chains on the front can be great fun 
for the Walter Mitty in all of us.  Because the front stays planted all the 
time, you can go down the road fishtailing all you want.....whee!!!!

Rgds,
Eric

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From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.nwscc.sea06.navy.mil>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:52:20 -500
Subject: IH Net Address Please

This is a bit off the mark.  I'll be brief.  I am seeking the similar 
net address for IH Scouts.  I have an old address that no longer is 
valid.  I appreciate it if you could provide it to me.  Thanks! Mark

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From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.nwscc.sea06.navy.mil>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:56:32 -500
Subject: LR Past Articles

The 109 in the tropics reminds me of a Peter Egan column of several 
years ago.  He describes his fascination of all the old Landys in NZ. 
If you ever get stuck in your local library, check out their Road & 
Track back issues, about three years removed.  Mark

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:59:30 -0500
From: NateDunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Re: Watneys?

Boehme, Doug wrote:

> Watneys Cream Stoudt is also very good! (The best stoudt I've ever
> tasted.)

> Watneys Red Barrell...I belive 
> tasted.)

There's a bar in Portland, OR which serves Watneys Red Barrel on tap,
outstanding!
The place is ,maybe was :(, called Produce Row.  Great beer, great food.

While in the bottle's good, on tap is the best.
-- 
Nate Dunsmore
88" SIIa ("The Blue Brick" http://members.aol.com/naddmd/first.htm )
dunsmo19@us.net

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From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:13:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Hotter coils, welded points

On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) wrote:
>Greg Moore writes with problems with a newly-installed Accel supercoil.

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>is more reliability in the wet.  Fit a Luminition electronic ignition system 
>and you're set.  
Aaaaaa....NO!  Unless you're getting a monster coil, don't bother with the 
Lumenition system.  While it works great when its working, they have a tendency 
to ingest Sir Lucas from time to time.  When this happens, spare parts are 
difficult if not impossible to find.  My recommendation would be a system called 
Ignitor, made by Pertronix.  Prices range in the area of $70 to $120 depending 
where you buy and are available for almost all points-style ignitions.  Its a 
unit that replaces the points (about the same size) and uses a magnetic collar 
around the dist. shaft to activate the coil.  It won't work with really hot 
coils but hotter ones should be fine...you no longer have trouble with point 
gaps changing or blasted dwell meters or anything.  I've been running one in my 
Rover for a while, its great!

The usual caveats about being impartial and all don't apply.  I've got a couple 
V8 and 2.25l sets sitting right here, if anyone is interested....

Rgds,
Eric

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:19:40 -0800
From: Christopher Dow <dow@thelen.org>
Subject: Re: Electrical weirdness

At 10:46 AM 10/31/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Driving to work today, I found that my fuel gauge, water temp gauge,
>wiper brakelights and turn indicators all stopped working.  Headlights
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>dead. If I switch fuses no change from the original.  Looked behind the
>instrument panel and all is well (hooked up).

I found while doing my wiring harness that trying to debug electrical
problems without a test lamp is a real drag.  If you don't have one, go get
one.

Take a test lamp, and see if the wire going into the fuel gauge meter is
hot.  If it is, then you know you have a bad ground on the other side.  If
not, look at the fuse box, like Dave said.  The procedure I use for the
fuse box is to place the clamp of the test lamp on the ground terminal of
the battery.  Then touch each side of both fuses with the probe.  It should
be hot on each side of both if the ignition is on.  Then stick the sharp
point of the probe through the insulation on the contact tab of all four
connections on the fuse box.  If they aren't all hot, then take the fuse
box out and clean the grime off the contacts with sand paper--or get a new
fuse box.  Someone at BP actually suggested replacing the original fuse box
with one that uses the plug type fuses that you can find anywhere.  The
next thing to do is simply check every circuite in the dash, and this
should only take a few minutes.  

If that doesn't find the problem, then you just need to start at the
starter button, and trace all the circuits in the harness until you find
the bad wire.  If you have a bad wire in the harness, you should probably
replace the whole harness.  BP sells them for pretty cheap, and the one I
bought matched my wiring diagram exactly.

It probably is a bad ground, but that can be more than a little problem.
My fuel level indicator started getting whacked about one week before my
harness caught fire, so be careful.  This may be an evil forewarning.  My
'root cause' was actually a bad ignition switch.  Remember, if you don't
find the actual cause of the problem, then you may have more appointments
with Mr. Lucas in your future.

C
'65 IIA 
'96 Disco

>Question: could this be due to poor contact across the lower fuse? 
>What else could it be? (no comments Dave)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>88" SIIa ("The Blue Brick" http://members.aol.com/naddmd/first.htm )
>dunsmo19@us.net

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:27:20 -1000
From: Faye Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

In response to jeffery Bergs comments on ny experience with freewheel hubs.
>------------------------------

>Mr Berg states:  As you admit that you had a "sick" engine to begin with, I
respectfully >submit that your findings are questionable.  If you can't
build the momentum to begin with then I would agree, hubs locked or unlocked
are of
>minimal consequence.  Same for gas mileage -- we're talking modest
>improvements, which I'm sure could be easily offset by an improperly tuned,
>or otherwise flawed, engine.

I mentioned the poor condition of the engine to emphasize that even a slight
improvement in performance would be manifestly apparent.  There was no
apparent difference locked or freewheeling based on my 'scientific' test
facility, namely comparisons on the same hill on a daily basis over a period
of years with two different rovers.  
>Mr Berg reports:  No one (I hope) has claimed an increase in horsepower due
>improvements, which I'm sure could be easily offset by an improperly tuned,
to the unlocking of free wheeled hubs.  

I'm surprized you don't know that washing the auto increases horsepower by a
factor of ten.  Seriously, I only mentioned horspower to emphasize how
critical any SLIGHT increase in power/decrease in work required would have
been reflected in performance.  Yes!!! it is logical that not having to turn
the diff. should make a difference in performance.  Unfortunately, my actual
experience showed no difference that I could measure either by performance
or gas mileage.  I'm not voicing an opinion one way or the other on whether
you should install them, just reporting my experience.  Mr. Berg feels
subtle improvements.  I found none.
>Mr Berg reports:  No one (I hope) has claimed an increase in horsepower due
Mr Berg reports:  I definitely find other factors, such as temperature (or maybe
>it's the humidity), have much more effect than the state of the hubs.  Some
>days the car runs like a top, (relatively) quick and smooth -- others it
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>no matter how the car is running, and is always improved when the hubs are
>unlocked.

I totally agree on the rover having good days and bad.  Sometimes it purrs
like a cat, effortlessly zips around, power to spare, downshifts to first
and 2nd and upshifts to 2nd are butter smooth.  Other times it just seems to
lack something, stumbles on throttle opening, shifts like an 18 wheeler and
in short, is a job to drive. Yet in actual performance, that damned hill
again, it goes up just about as well whether having a good or bad day.  I
think there is a bit of Zen involved in owning and regularly driving a
series lr.  Must be communion with the mechanical god that keeps us rovering.
>Mr. Berg states: In conclusion, I stand by my original statement: Free
>days the car runs like a top, (relatively) quick and smooth -- others it
Wheel Hubs have their >place, and the blanket notion that they shouldn't be
installed *under any >circumstances* -- or advice to that effect -- is
inherently flawed.

The reverse is also true.  A blanket statement that every one should install
them is also flawed.  The individual that made the comment that hubs
do/don't increase performance and do/don't increase fuel economy seems to
have it right. One person doubles their gas mileage and gains the effect of
30 more horsepower, others see no difference.  

One thing is certain, if you go on/off road on a regular basis, the
locking/unlocking process is a pain in the *** and probably will cost more
in wear and tear on the driver's back, door and seat than the hubs are
worth.  Gadgets are insidious, if I have them, I feel compelled to use them.
Just can't seem to go on the road with a clear conscience with the hubs locked. 

Aloha,
Peter Ogilvie

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:30:40 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: IH Net Address Please

On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, Mark Gehlhausen wrote:
> This is a bit off the mark.  I'll be brief.  I am seeking the similar 
> net address for IH Scouts.  

Info about the IHC Digest can be found on a homepage:
http://www.wizvax.net/rwelty/ihc/

To subscribe, write to: ihc-digest-request@mailgate.wizvax.net and in the
body of the message include the word  subscribe  by itself

David R.

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 14:25:43 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: IH Net Address Please

I believe you'll find them all rusting away in a field somewhere.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel.
Soon to be Triumph Trophy owner ?

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:08:41 -0500
From: NateDunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Re: Watneys?

Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote:

> The only beer for the true follower of the Rover path is as we all know
> Guinness. It is the only ale that can be used as a substitute for 90-weight and
> have its body and flavour improved by the experience.

An outstanding stout, though I think Murphy's does make a good
challenge.
>    aj"Unless, of course, you make your own..."r
> Guinness. It is the only ale that can be used as a substitute for 90-weight and

Which I do from time to time.  And while a stout is relatively easy to
brew, to get the smoothness and finish that Watney's has is difficult
and elusive...at least for me!

 
Nate Dunsmore
88" SIIa ("The Blue Brick" http://members.aol.com/naddmd/first.htm )
dunsmo19@us.net

------------------------------
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Date: 31 Oct 96 14:23:17 EST
From: Electronic Postmaster <POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Undeliverable message

Your message could not be delivered for the following reason:

Mailbox 76346.3274 is currently full.
Please resend your message at a later time.

--- Returned message ---

	id NAA02635; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:09:29 -0500
	id KAA10584; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:01:20 -0800
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 13:04:06 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
X-To: Land-Rover-Owner@playground.sun.com
Subject: Re[2]: Dissention in the Yanks
X-edited-by: LRO-Lite
Message-ID: <bulk.10565.19961031100055@Land-Rover.Team.Net>

>WOW!  Just last week there was a horse standing here.  Now the thing
>has been flogged into a red stain @Land-Rover.Team.Net. 
Well is it dead yet? Let us know so we can start beating it...:-P
Dave B.

------------------------------
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Date: 31 Oct 96 14:23:17 EST
From: Electronic Postmaster <POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Undeliverable message

Your message could not be delivered for the following reason:

Mailbox 100606.524 is currently full.
Please resend your message at a later time.

--- Returned message ---

	id NAA02635; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:09:29 -0500
	id KAA10584; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:01:20 -0800
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 13:04:06 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
X-To: Land-Rover-Owner@playground.sun.com
Subject: Re[2]: Dissention in the Yanks
X-edited-by: LRO-Lite
Message-ID: <bulk.10565.19961031100055@Land-Rover.Team.Net>

>WOW!  Just last week there was a horse standing here.  Now the thing
>has been flogged into a red stain @Land-Rover.Team.Net. 
Well is it dead yet? Let us know so we can start beating it...:-P
Dave B.

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:02:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Prefab Social Circle (AutoWeek Nov 4, 1996)

At 10:10 PM 10/30/96 -0500, you wrote:
>"Land Rover has made ownership of its vehicles a hobby, complete with a
>prefab social circle of the like minded"

Ooh, goody, goody, does that mean  I can start dating those wealthy stanford
girls with the new Range Rovers?   Huh, huh, cann I? puhleease?

(Oooh, look, daddy gave us 50 grand to have a good time on our date tonight...)

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:13:46 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re: LROA ??

At 08:02 AM 10/31/96, Steve Bradke <ASFCO@aol.com> wrote:
>> Michael Carradine
>> VP, Land Rover Owners' Assoc.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>Rgds
>Steve Bradke

 Hi Steve,

 I'm glad to be a member of the LROA, and advertise it I will.  We are
 a volunteer organization, and the few of us which do volunteer are kept
 quite busy with the LROA and AW when we could be having fun with our
 Land Rovers. (I'm not complaining :)  As a member, maybe you can help
 organize a local chapter, plan a few get-togethers or go on a Rover run.
 Possibly you could write an article with photos about the LR happenings
 in NY.  I'm sure we would all like to read about it this winter.  I'm
 serious!!  The LROA always gets criticized as being a Western club and
 that members are tired of reading about desert trips, etc, but hey, just
 send your contributions to the AW editor.

 Oh...  the next AW is at the printers and with any luck will be in your
 mailbox in November.  We hope you will like it.

 Send LROA applications and AW material to:
 LROA, PO Box 130, Walnut Creek, CA 94597
 Dues are still $20 per year. 

 Regards,

 Michael Carradine
 VP, LROA
 
                       ______
 Michael Carradine     [__[__\==                   Rupert '72-88/ ?? 89-RR
 510-988-0900          [________]            Land-Rover Rough/Plushmobiles
 cs@crl.com _________.._(o)__.(o)____...o^^^    www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:44:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: LROA ??

On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, Michael Carradine wrote:

>  do volunteer are kept quite busy with the LROA and AW when we could be 
>  having fun with our Land Rovers. 

	Busy with AW?  It's gonna be a think brick of a book at this 
	gestation rate... 

>  serious!!  The LROA always gets criticized as being a Western club and
>  that members are tired of reading about desert trips, etc, but hey, just
>  send your contributions to the AW editor.

	LROA is criticized for a lot more things than just being a western 
	based club...

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:48:30 -0800
From: "Franklin H. Yap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: LRO mag

Easton Trevor wrote:
> It appears that many magazines from the UK are overpriced for subscriptions.
> Just how much is bulk rate postage from the UK?

I think subscriptions in the US are a lot cheaper than other places,  I 
subscribed to a couple of 4wd mags from Australia several years ago and 
they cost even more than LROI.

FHY

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:51:35 -0800
From: paarch@ix.netcom.com (Paul Archibald)
Subject: Re: Hotter coils, welded points

Eric, I could use one less thing to worry about in the ol' beast.  I don't
remember if the two-litre uses the same dist. as the 2.25.
if someone was interested,....how much?
Paul
>Aaaaaa....NO!  Unless you're getting a monster coil, don't bother with the
>Lumenition system.  While it works great when its working, they have a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>Ignitor, made by Pertronix.  Prices range in the area of $70 to $120 depending
>where you buy and are available for almost all points-style ignitions.  Its a
snip
>The usual caveats about being impartial and all don't apply.  I've got a
>couple
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>Rgds,
>Eric

Paul Archibald
paarch@ix.netcom.com
(parch@smmff.com during the week at work)
(510)353-1320 or wk. (408)487-1336
'58 88" RHD 2-litre, rear Koenig
'87 Range-Rover-over 160,000 miles-back from the dead "going strong" (Squeak)

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:00:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Hotter coils, welded points

On Thu, 31 Oct 1996 ericz@cloud9.net wrote:

> The usual caveats about being impartial and all don't apply.  I've got a 
> couple V8 and 2.25l sets sitting right here, if anyone is interested....

	-ve earth only though... :-(

------------------------------
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From: ben@bell-labs.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:11:01 -0500
Subject: lt95 x-fer high ratio..

How easy is it to replace the LT95 x-fer case high ratio gear?
(I guess they weher avail. in several ratios from 1.36:1 to ~1:1)
thx
Jan

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 16:11:24 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Watneys?

Mark G. asks, innocently,

>Dave,
>What is a "Watneys"?
>M
And the man who wouldn't know good beer if it stole his Rover replies:

>Watneys Red Barrell...I belive that's Mr. Dunsmore's favorite brew...one of 
mine
>too, mingles nicely with the scent of 90wt...good for quenching the thirst 
while
>working on the Rover.
>Yeeha...there's your LR content!
>Dave B.

Dave, Dave, Dave..... sigh.

>The only beer for the true follower of the Rover path is as we all know 
>Guinness. It is the only ale that can be used as a substitute for 90-weight and
>have its body and flavour improved by the experience.

Umm, you forgot, there is a distinction here, AL.

Watneys= beer
Guinness= Guinness

Guinness is, in my opinion a completely different beverage, in a class by 
itself. There is no equivalent and I wouldn't belittle Guinness by grouping it 
in with something as lowly as "beer". Shame on you Al...

>Also, it's a mark of stability when one goes roaming, as it can be had and is 
>significantly the same anywhere from Dublin to Washington, DC, to Aberdeen, 
>to Johannesburg....well, you get the picture.

Also good when you're hungry in any one of the above places and there's not a 
loaf of bread to be found...just down a pint or five and your good to go!

>Oh, when will they learn...8*)

I guess you will have to buy me a few on your lunch hour next week, so that I 
can learn the ways of the true master "beer" connoisseur...

>   aj"Unless, of course, you make your own..."r

Blasphemer! Thou darest imply that the amateur brew that is perpetrated in your 
garage/basement/crankcase/whatever is anything better than miles short of the 
pinnacle of perfection that is Guinness???!!!! 
I think thee not!
String 'im up, boys!!!
Get the horse!!!
:):)

See you next week Al.
Dave "Who's buying the first round" B.

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 16:23:13 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: ice capades

 I just picked the largests snowbank, 
engaged low box, and drove right up. 

I remember hearing this line before...something to do with the vehicle ending up
on its side...

BTW, when there's no traffic, driving with chains on the front can be great fun 
for the Walter Mitty in all of us.  Because the front stays planted all the 
time, you can go down the road fishtailing all you want.....whee!!!!

Whee!!!!... hey...watch out for that snowbank!!! oof...
I'll stick to careful driving, thanks Zippy...:)

Dave B.

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 16:27:50 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Rover + synth blend oil

It got its first test this morning, 14 degrees F. The LR lives outside   
(for a while yet) and I hadn't run it in about 36 hours, so it was good   
and cold.

14f already! Sheesh. You guys have it rough. Glad you aren't doing another frame
over?

Hows it running? 

Dave

------------------------------
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From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@aae.wisc.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:30:38 +0000
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Watneys?

snip
> >The only beer for the true follower of the Rover path is as we all know 
> >Guinness. It is the only ale that can be used as a substitute for 90-weight and
> >have its body and flavour improved by the experience.
> Umm, you forgot, there is a distinction here, AL.

snip
Actually, what comes even closer to 90wt is Xingu. Yum, yum.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------
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From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:39:09 -0500
Subject: Re: LROA ??

In a message dated 96-10-31 15:28:10 EST, you write:

>'m glad to be a member of the LROA, and advertise it I will.  We are
> a volunteer organization, and the few of us which do volunteer are kept
 quite busy with the LROA and AW when we could be having fun with our

     You sure must have been busy...'cause I haven't received anything except
1 AW right after I joined...and I know I'm not the only one
what are you guys doing? I never heard anything more or about or from  the
LROA since I sent in My  $ 20.00 

> Land Rovers. (I'm not complaining :)  As a member, maybe you can help
> organize a local chapter, plan a few get-togethers or go on a Rover run.

Oh please....I 've been on numerous Rover runs, attended countless
get-togethers  and have done so without the LROA  and will continue to do so
in the future 

 Possibly you could write an article with photos about the LR happenings
> in NY.  I'm sure we would all like to read about it this winter.  I'm
> serious!!  The LROA always gets criticized as being a Western club and
> that members are tired of reading about desert trips, etc, but hey, just
> send your contributions to the AW editor.

    We all enjoy reading about events before or soon after they happen, Could
the reason you don't get more input from other areas have anything to do with
the fact that most people like to read these articles in a timely matter??
    OVLR seems to have no problem with getting their mailings out on time
each month and....there are articles from all over in there
 BTW  they have more good stuff in that newsletter each month than you had in
that one issue of AW I received way back when and the AW is published
Quarterly !!!  lots of time to cram it full with all sorts of great LR stuff

> Oh...  the next AW is at the printers and with any luck will be in your
> mailbox in November.  We hope you will like it.

with any luck.....
this should be one heck of a large issue.......with you being so busy getting
this thing together over the past year 
> Send LROA applications and AW material to:
> LROA, PO Box 130, Walnut Creek, CA 94597
> Dues are still $20 per year. 
> send your contributions to the AW editor.

You will not be receiving any renewal from me.  I would not mind sending it
in if I knew I would be getting something for the money ...
my renewal $$ for the LROA will be going toward my new membership in
ROAV...who also BTW do an outstanding job with their newsletter, hosting
events etc, etc 
and let us not forget BSROA as well.... ever see the job they do? 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but these orgainizations  are all volunter as
well

     The Land Rover Owners Association of N.A.  would be well advised to take
a lesson from all  three of these  these fine orgainizations !

Your signature with :
VP LROA
just jogged my memory and it pi**es me off to know that I didn't get anything
for my $$   (ok I did get 1 magazine )
I'm sure you are a great guy ..it's just LROA and whats not going on that
makes me feel the way I do
   I can't be the only one  
> Send LROA applications and AW material to:
> LROA, PO Box 130, Walnut Creek, CA 94597
Rgds
Steve Bradke

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:39:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Rover + synth blend oil

On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, Bobeck, David R. wrote:

> 14f already! Sheesh. You guys have it rough. Glad you aren't doing 
> another frame over?

	Snow in Ottawa this afternoon.  

------------------------------
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Date: 31 Oct 96 16:23:57 EST
From: Electronic Postmaster <POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Undeliverable message

Your message could not be delivered for the following reason:

Mailbox 76346.3274 is currently full.
Please resend your message at a later time.

--- Returned message ---

	id QAA18012; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:23:13 -0500
	id NAA13808; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:11:15 -0800
From: ben@bell-labs.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:11:01 -0500
X-To: lro-list <lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net>
Subject: lt95 x-fer high ratio..
X-edited-by: LRO-Lite
Message-ID: <bulk.13751.19961031130711@Land-Rover.Team.Net>

How easy is it to replace the LT95 x-fer case high ratio gear?
(I guess they weher avail. in several ratios from 1.36:1 to ~1:1)
thx
Jan

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:52:24 -0500
From: Jeffrey A Berg <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Peter Ogilvie helps me to keep beating on the horse:

>Seriously, I only mentioned horspower to emphasize how
>critical any SLIGHT increase in power/decrease in work required would have
>been reflected in performance.

First of all, Mr. Berg is my father.  Anyone on this list, friend or "foe"
is encouraged to call me Jeff.  Heck, most of you "locals" call me much
worse -- and that's to my face.  I think I may have expressed myself poorly
so I want to briefly clarify. I understood Peter's stated reasons for
mentioning that his engine was sick.  In no way did I mean to imply that
Peter's observations weren't valid, I just disagree with his conclusion as
to what observations based on a sick motor say about the usefulness of hubs.

I'm beginning to suspect that the benefits from the free wheel hubs may
only become apparent when the engine has begun to experience it's torque
roll-off.  As I have no idea what the torque curve for a 2.25 is, I'm on
shakey ground here.  Based on this hypothesis though, I disagree that a
sick engine would better amplify the benefits of the slight decrease in
workload. With such an engine, you might never reach a point in the power
band where the small improvement in the coefficient of friction was
noticeable within the system.  As I've said, I only seem to notice
improvement at near top speeds.  And several people have commented that
hubs do make a favorable difference -- which leads me to believe that there
are times when they're useful.

Other than that, we're seeing eye-to-eye on this.  I never said that FWH
should be installed across the board.  I was responding to the notions that
they were useless gadgets for "(spoiled?) Yanks" and "hobbiests" (apology
accepted on the latter) and should *never* be installed under any
circumstances.

And as for driving with the front hubs engaged on roads, I have no problems
doing so.  Mine have been locked since I got back from the Mid-Atlantic
Rally down in Virginia.  I haven't taken any highway trips long enough, or
far enough north into big hill country,to bother.

Comments to other stuff I've read on this topic, not necessarily Peter's post:

I withdraw my notion that unlocked hubs would *significantly* reduce wear
and tear on the front end.  Folks that know the system better than I have
convinced me of my folly.  On the other hand, as that's my spare rear diff
sitting there, I'll take whatever I can get as long as it comes "free" with
the other benefits. :-)

I agree with Boebeck and others -- by locking the hubs whenever I have the
slightest inkling I might need them -- and this includes the threat of a
heavy rainstorm which might bring trees down across a paved road, I've
never been caught "needing them locked now."  Momentum is important, but
planning ahead even more so.  Maybe part of this comes from being an active
sailor -- I tend to know the weather, know my route, and know what
obstacles I may encounter.

I disagree with the notion that *I'm* likely to engage 4WD w/o having the
hubs locked -- and that hence this is a potential for great damage.  It's
simple, I *think* before I push the little yellow knob.  So far whenever
I've thought about it, I've instantly known the condition of the hubs.  If
it ever came to be that I didn't instantly *know*, if I had even the
slightest doubt, I'd get out and check.  If you're not the type of person
with this type of memory -- I really *KNOW* the status of my hubs at any
point (doesn't make you a bad person, or even a bad thinker-- memory is a
tricky thing and I can't remember many other types of things) than this
might be a problem, but it's hardly a valid condemation of the FWH system
used wisely and properly. Buyer beware: misuse of machinery can result in
expensive damage.

As I've said, YMMV, different strokes.  And I won't strike this horse again
unless provoked.

JAB

==
 Jeffrey A. Berg     Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT
                    jeff@purpleshark.com
                     ==================
	My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
	My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
	Taste for the good life,
	I can see it no other way.
		--Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:58:33 -0800
From: paarch@ix.netcom.com (Paul Archibald)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Watneys?

Tom, I think you have it wrong here! From my recollection, Xingu is thicker
than 90wt;^) unless you are comparing it to 30 year old 9owt that has never
been changed. It was an aquired taste, but when you have to drink over 150
different beers to get that cool mug you'll drink anythiung!
I actually have bought it on my own free will years later when I found it
in some obscure store(I figured I could put it in my gear-box to get rid of
the noise.)
Paul

>snip
>Actually, what comes even closer to 90wt is Xingu. Yum, yum.
>Tom Rowe

Paul Archibald
paarch@ix.netcom.com
(parch@smmff.com during the week at work)
(510)353-1320 or wk. (408)487-1336
'58 88" RHD 2-litre, rear Koenig
'87 Range-Rover-over 160,000 miles-back from the dead "going strong" (Squeak)

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:58:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: October 16 Telegraph...

		  THE product communications manager of Rover was not 
being awfully communicative at yesterday's Motor Show press day, normally 
an occasion for communicating until blue in the face. 

                  What sort of engine would their new vehicle have, he 
was asked. "Can't say," he replied. Exactly how big would it be? "Can't 
say." How many wheels would it have? "Can't say."

                  He couldn't say how much it would cost, or how many 
people it would seat, or what it would be called - in fact he could 
only say all the things which the new German boss of Rover, Dr Walter 
Hasselkuss, had just said. The news was that a compact Land Rover - let us 
call it the Thing - will go on sale in early 1998.

                  Thing will be a "sport utility vehicle" and will be made
in Solihull, at a seven-acre factory already under construction. It has
been under development for two years - that is, since before BMW bought
Land Rover; the new owners must have been delighted to find the plans in
the cupboard. 

                  Since 87.5 per cent of the components will be sourced
from the UK - "We have to be very precise these days," said Dr Hasselkuss
- Rover claims that 10,000 jobs in the supply industries will be secured,
and that #3.5 billion will be injected into the British automotive
industry during Thing's life. 

                  Those who go to the NEC at Birmingham to enjoy the show,
sponsored by The Daily Telegraph and open to the public for previews on
Friday, will soon observe that manufacturers have produced a bewildering
variety of vehicles which will nestle sexily into your lifestyle like a
pair of cashmere slippers. 

                  According to the Rover PCM, Thing will have a niche all
its own: it will be not quite as big as a Discovery, but not quite as
small as a Toyota RAV4.  He did say that there has been no "linearity" in
Land Rover ownership: you get a Discovery, Defender or Range Rover, but
you don't move from one to the other. Now the young, thrusting family who
can't quite afford a Discovery will be able to acquire that Land Rover
lifestyle with a shiny new Thing. 

                  It will "stand up to Land Rover values", which means 
permanent four-wheel-drive and more mud-plugging ability than the
average owner will ever require.

------------------------------
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From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:59:59 -0500
Subject: Dissension among the Yanks

I have read about the Free Wheeling Hubs on Land Rovers being "Yank Crap".
Please consider a historical perspective: Were it not for a lot of other
"Yank Crap" like jeeps, food, rifles, aircraft, lend-lease and so on, our
English friends might today be speaking German.

MFG

Paul Donohue
Denver Colorado USA
1965 109" englische Kubelwagen

            An Englishman is a person who does things
               because they have been done before.
            An American is a person who does things
               because they haven't been done before.
                                            Mark Twain

------------------------------
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Date: 31 Oct 96 14:25:25 EST
From: Electronic Postmaster <POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Undeliverable message

Your message could not be delivered for the following reason:

Mailbox 76346.3274 is currently full.
Please resend your message at a later time.

--- Returned message ---

	id NAA04361; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:14:48 -0500
	id KAA10685; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:06:09 -0800
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 13:09:10 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
X-To: Land-Rover-Owner@playground.sun.com
Subject: Re[2]: Thermo fit...
X-edited-by: LRO-Lite
Message-ID: <bulk.10668.19961031100551@Land-Rover.Team.Net>

I read of a one barrel Weber in use.  Tell me more?  Was this a 
factory option?  Might someone know the throat size?  
Mark

Weber 34ICH, Ive got one. It doesn't like to idle on choke, and some say it 
produces a distinct loss of power. I cant say for sure. But mine seems to run 
nicely overall and is quite nippy in the pedal. Mileage is supposed to be better
but I think its a crock, I get 10-12 local and 15 highway. Haven't measure dit 
with the OD yet. I imagine it isn't much different. The throat is a bit smaller 
than the standard Zenith and the 34 in the name i guess is the size of the 
throttle plate? or is it the venturi opening?
Not a factory option, but a common conversion.
Dave b.

------------------------------
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From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 17:02:55 -0500
Subject: Congratulations

Congratulations on the 1000th anniversary of the founding of Vienna, home
of Peter Hirsch a frequent list contributor and Series I authority.

Paul Donohue
Denver Colorado (Unofficially 138 years old sometime this fall.)
1965 109" Dormobile

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:03:45 -0800
From: paarch@ix.netcom.com (Paul Archibald)
Subject: Re: Rover + synth blend oil

Dixon, I keep getting  about 50% of your mail as:
>On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, Bobeck, David R. wrote:
>> 14f already! Sheesh. You guys have it rough. Glad you aren't doing
>> another frame over?

and then nothing.....
what were you saying? Also others might be not able to read your complere
messages, somthing might be wrong???

Paul Archibald
paarch@ix.netcom.com
(parch@smmff.com during the week at work)
(510)353-1320 or wk. (408)487-1336
'58 88" RHD 2-litre, rear Koenig
'87 Range-Rover-over 160,000 miles-back from the dead "going strong" (Squeak)

------------------------------
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Date: 31 Oct 96 15:35:22 EST
From: Electronic Postmaster <POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Undeliverable message

Your message could not be delivered for the following reason:

Mailbox 76346.3274 is currently full.
Please resend your message at a later time.

--- Returned message ---

	id NAA15632; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:49:38 -0500
	id KAA11382; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:41:42 -0800
From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar-MS)
X-To: lro@land-rover.team.net ('lro@land-rover.team.net')
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:45:33 -0600
Subject: Rover + synth blend oil
X-edited-by: LRO-Lite
Message-ID: <bulk.11371.19961031104135@Land-Rover.Team.Net>

Hi all,

Just wanted to pass this on. Two weeks ago I changed over to valvoline   
synthethic blended oil, 10w-40, in my IIa for the winter.

It got its first test this morning, 14 degrees F. The LR lives outside   
(for a while yet) and I hadn't run it in about 36 hours, so it was good   
and cold.

Half choke and VROOOM! it started right up with nary a slow crank or   
hesitation. I hope to reap some of the synthetic benefits like keeping it   
more liquid in colder temps without paying the full price for straight   
synthetic.

Just thought I'd let everyone know in case they were wondering about   
these new oils; there may be some value other than marketing hype...

Tim
 ---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW  

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 23:06:31 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Eezibleed

Boy, are you guys getting ripped off! The Eezybleed kit sells for about 7 
gbp, ie about 11 usd, in the UK (eg. Halfords). I have used it often and 
with pleasure on my S I. Just make sure the connections are all tight, or 
you will end up with a nice fountain of brake fluid, which eats your paint.
Regards
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------
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Date: 31 Oct 96 16:36:25 EST
From: Electronic Postmaster <POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Undeliverable message

Your message could not be delivered for the following reason:

Mailbox 76346.3274 is currently full.
Please resend your message at a later time.

--- Returned message ---

	id QAA22731; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:35:45 -0500
	id NAA14088; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:24:16 -0800
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 16:27:50 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
X-To: Land-Rover-Owner@playground.sun.com
Subject: Re: Rover + synth blend oil
X-edited-by: LRO-Lite
Message-ID: <bulk.14065.19961031132405@Land-Rover.Team.Net>

It got its first test this morning, 14 degrees F. The LR lives outside   
(for a while yet) and I hadn't run it in about 36 hours, so it was good   
and cold.

14f already! Sheesh. You guys have it rough. Glad you aren't doing another frame
over?

Hows it running? 

Dave

------------------------------
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From: "Beckett, Ron" <rbeckett@nibupad.telstra.com.au>
Subject: Re: drain plug size?
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 96 09:24:00 EST

I'd half fill the filter with oil before screwing it on too.

Ron
 ----------
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler
Cc: rro@playground.sun.com
Subject: Re: drain plug size?
Date: Thursday, 31 October 1996 3:31PM

Lee

You mean what size wrench to use?  I use my 10 inch adjustable (Crecent) 
wrench.

Also this time of year I start thinking about switching over to the 10W-30
Mobil 1 for the winter.  Save the 15W-50 for the springtime.

CAUTION...Read the owner's manual about oil changes.  My 1988 3.5 and from
what I saw here the 3.9's warn to drain and refill the oil sump BEFORE
removing the filter to avoid losing the prime on the oil pump.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover (still on the summertime 15W-50)
Newport NH USA   603-863-7883   lmkessler@srnet.com

At 07:38 PM 10/30/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Okay, I haven't bought a shop manual yet...but I am venturing forth to bond
>with my new Rover...
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)]
>1990 Audi 200T, 75K
>1987 Wicked Fat Chance, 1981 Condor

------------------------------
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From: "Beckett, Ron" <rbeckett@nibupad.telstra.com.au>
Subject: Re: Electrical
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 96 09:24:00 EST

Experience with the early style Lucas fuseholders in my Hillman  Hunter 
(same as used on my 83 RR) was not good.  The fuse poor contact, the 
fuseholder terminals get warm, the plastic melts, the contacts looser, they 
get hotter, the plastic melts some more etc etc.
I ended up cutting all the wiring where it went into the fuse box and 
installing a fuse box from a J*p*nese car.
I notice that my Aussie '87 RR uses a different fuesebox and I assume it is 
the same as the '89 US spec car.  Perhaps they are better *but* if it is 
still Lucas...........

Regards ,
Ron

PS for those who don't know what a Hillman is, it is a sibling of 
Sunbeam/Humber/Singer cars made by the Rootes group.  After over 50 years a 
qulaity car manufacturer, the company was closed after being bought out by 
Chrysler.  The Hunter uses basically the same engine as the Sunbeam Alpine. 
 Don't confuse the Hillman Hunter with the RR Hunter or the Sunbeam Alpine 
with the RR Alpine!  I have to admit they look a little different 8-}

Ron

 ----------
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler
Cc: rro@playground.sun.com
Subject: Re: Electrical
Date: Thursday, 31 October 1996 3:31PM

Bill

Check the contacts in the fuse holder.  When we got our RR the cigar lighter
did not work (for radar detector).  Problem was the fuse holder, contacts
were too loose.  I squeezed them together with pliers so it would have a
tight contact with the fuse.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover
Newport NH USA   603-863-7883   lmkessler@srnet.sun.com

At 06:39 PM 10/30/96 -0500, you wrote:
>On my 1989 US spec RR the rear wash, wipeand  the rear screen heater do not
>worrk.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>problem before winter sets in ?
>   Regards  Bill Leacock  Limey in exile

------------------------------
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From: QROVER80@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 17:53:24 -0500
Subject: Re: October 16 Telegraph...

And here all these years I have thought the "Thing" was made by BMW's
competiton VW. 
Rgds Quintin Aspin

------------------------------
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From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: lt95 x-fer high ratio..
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:11:35 -1330 (CDT)

> How easy is it to replace the LT95 x-fer case high ratio gear?
> (I guess they weher avail. in several ratios from 1.36:1 to ~1:1)

fairly straight forward, though the centre diff has to come out.  can be 
done in vehicle..  one *full* day, you'd do a transfer case I/M gear 
re-shim at the same time.  like most things rover, time onsuming and 
frustrating.
Oh its easier if you lift the rhs floor and centre tunnel.

sorry i havent posted ratios I havent been able to dial in fromhome of 
late. only 16 lines between ~ 4000 users...  ( oh well its free at the 
moment...)

cheers

Daryl

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:47:34 -0300
From: rover1@sky.net (Steve Paustian)
Subject: Re: LROA ??

>In a message dated 96-10-31 15:28:10 EST, you write:
>>'m glad to be a member of the LROA, and advertise it I will.  We are
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 68 lines)]
>Rgds
>Steve Bradke

I haven't recieved a bloody thing either, except one newsletter long ago.
You guys re-organize yourselves out of existance

Steven Paustian
AKA Generalissimo Chaos  (Al U. Minium)
President, Flatland Rover Society
04/500 D90SW

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:46:37 +1100 (EST)
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: FWH

LROC (Vic) concensus was that FWH
have no measurable effect on fuel consumption,
can lead to wear of the front prop-shaft (slip joint wears oval),
can stuff-up steering if not engaged frequently,
some have been known to "let-go" in hard 4WD and consequently bust a rear axle.

Lloyd

------------------------------
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From: anieto@mofo.com (Nieto, Armando S., Jr.)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:30:13 -0800
Subject: Not read: thanks for info

------------------------------
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From: Solihull@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:30:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Speedo Cable

I recabled mine with a universal cable from NAPA. You get just the inside
part, not the housing, and an end and a tool to swage the end on after you
measure. Just follow the directions, Had to make sure I got the one long
enough, though, there's two part numbers. Works fine.
Cheers!

John Dillingham in Woodstock, GA
73 s3 swb 25902676b DD engine rebuild under way!
72 s3 swb 25900502a rusted, in suspended animation
Looking for a P5 project
Vintage Rover Service--Since 1994, over half a dozen satisfied customers!!

------------------------------
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From: Solihull@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:30:19 -0500
Subject: Re: High Parts Cost?

>>>Then I go to the corner 
AutoZone for International parts and stuff is so cheap. 

yeah but you don't have a really cool British Land Rover. Part of the fun is 
making the guys at Auto Zone look up parts that you know they wont have...

Famous Autozoner question: (around here, anyway) "Toyota makes those, don't
they?"

Cheers!!
John Dillingham in Woodstock, GA
73 s3 swb 25902676b DD engine rebuild under way!
72 s3 swb 25900502a rusted, in suspended animation
Looking for a P5 project
Vintage Rover Service--Since 1994, over half a dozen satisfied customers!!

------------------------------
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From: brian whatcott <inet@intellisys.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 18:31:01 -800
Subject: Finding an adaptor for Ford 302 to Landrover

Excuse me for busting in.
A friend has been sheltering the remains of a landrover 
in his Oklahoma back yard for quite a few years.

 He has decided he wants to put a Ford 302 in it.
He felt that there used to be an adaptor on sale - but
he can't find one available.

Is this at all viable?
Where would he find an adaptor?
I suggested he stay original - but he felt a replacement 
flat head 4 for this 1965 machine would be in the $1000's.

Any suggestions gladly received.
I do not subscribe this list.
Please mail me at inet@intellisys.net

Thanks
brian whatcott

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:38:54 -0800
From: Heather Dixon <hldixon@top.monad.net>
Subject: Re: Undeliverable message

I know it's not me cuz I didn't do it! But what is with all of these 
undeliverable messages? Mike Smith is that you?

------------------------------
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From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:44:41 -0500
Subject: Re: High Parts Cost?

In a message dated 96-10-31 19:36:31 EST, you write:

>yeah but you don't have a really cool British Land Rover. Part of the fun is

>making the guys at Auto Zone look up parts that you know they wont have...
>Famous Autozoner question: (around here, anyway) "Toyota makes those, don't
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>73 s3 swb 25902676b DD engine rebuild under way!
>72 s3 swb 25900502
John;
Sounds just like the guy that came over to me last week  and said 
"Hey a land-Rover... boy that was the best Jeep Toyota ever made"
Rgds
Steve

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 20:41:26 -0500
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Electrical Exorcism

Hi all,

This evening, I went toe to toe with the evil spirit of Joe Lucas.
As you may remember, This morning, this HALLOWEEN morning, mysteriously
the fuel gauge, water temperature gauge, brakelights, windscreen wipers,
and turn indicators went dead.

After a harrowing drive home during rush hour (sorry about unexpectedly
swerving from lane to lane, no turn signals), I went at the fusebox with
a handful of 400 grit and an ohmmeter.  A little sanding later, all was
working.

What a pain, do people have to sand the fuse box terminals frequently?

There's gotta be a better design

Nate

------------------------------
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From: Jim Vinokuroff <jimv@hawk.igs.net>
Subject: Re: re: Chained again
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 20:53:04 -0500

On Wed, 30 Oct 1996 Tim Harincar wrote:

<SNIP>
>Chains would help in those situations just by virtue of biting into the =
 
>ice and preventing sideways motion, so would a good tire (Trak Edge?).

>Someone once told me that winter driving success (or lack thereof) can =
be  
>attributed as follows: 50% tire, 25% vehicle and 25% driver skill.
<SNIP some more>

>From my experience, I would put the driver's skill at 50% or 55% for =
successful winter driving. This may also have some geographic aspects to =
it. When I was in Phoenix (US), it wasn't a great challenge to drive in =
January and February. During the same period however, Eastern =
Ontario/Western Quebec (Canada) can be quite fun, as long as it's not =
rush hour.

The condition and capability of your equipment is important, but your =
skill will keep you on the road and out of trouble.

On another topic.... Happy Birthday Vienna

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Jim Vinokuroff	(Writing this while it's snowing out!)
'82 Niva 4X4 (don't laugh - it's paid and I can cruise at 75 mph!)
eventually will be an LR owner
jimv@hawk.igs.net

------------------------------
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From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 21:56:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Electrical Exorcism

In a message dated 96-10-31 20:54:37 EST, you write:

> handful of 400 grit and an ohmmeter.  A little sanding later, all was
>working.

See I told you ....give it a day it would be working again

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 23:22:38 -0500
From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Subject: Re: Electrical Exorcism

On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net> wrote:

>What a pain, do people have to sand the fuse box terminals frequently?

No, some of them have to remove and pry open the many relays in a 90 to find 
where the effing ants have buggered up the electrickery that has disabled the 
starter. This isn't always simple as no available manual tells where to find the 
different relays. Using the ignition switch causes relays to click all over the 
place. Finding where little bodies between contacts are giving inconsistent 
readings of voltage output is an exercise is patience.   
>There's gotta be a better design

Or periodic neutron irradiation. I even had the starter motor out and changed 
the ignition contact unit trying to track this one down.

Allan,
entomologically overwhelmed in the Indies.

Allan Smith
Caribbean Natural Resources Institute
Vieux Fort
St. Lucia, West Indies.
Tel +(758) 454 6060
Fax +(758) 454 5188

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 23:22:35 -0500
From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Subject: Re: Toyota jeep

After the "best jeep toyota made" post I had to relay last weekend's fun. The 
island has been flooded by phenomenal rains. I had to get to town during the 
peak but had been told that the road was deeply under water in two places and 
dozens of vehicles were a) not trying, b) had tried and were now stuck, c) some 
drivers were paying to be pushed through with the engine off. So, fit the 2 
wading plugs, head for the flood, meet one of the enterprising "push-through" 
teams of young guys and get greeted with a cheery of "you have nothing to worry 
about" and "you have the best jeep". Yes I, but less of this jeep stuff. 
However, the jeep appellation is generic.  The good thing is that almost 
everyone still knows what a Land Rover is, even after a long absence in the 
region similar to that in the US prior to the RR introduction, and the number of 
imported Series LRs is increasing very satisfyingly.
Cheers
Allan

 
Allan Smith
Caribbean Natural Resources Institute
Vieux Fort
St. Lucia, West Indies.
Tel +(758) 454 6060
Fax +(758) 454 5188

------------------------------
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From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Finding an adaptor for Ford 302 to Landrover
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:34:04 +1030 (CDT)

brian whatcott asks:
>  He has decided he wants to put a Ford 302 in it.
> He felt that there used to be an adaptor on sale - but
> he can't find one available.

Marks 4wd's here in OZ (they have a web page look at lloyds site) have
adpaters from ford C4/6/?autos and single rail four speed to the series LR
transfer case

Dont know about the engine itself, probably too much for the box...

> Is this at all viable?

One of the nicest engine swaps i ever saw was a 302 windsor + C4 (maybe 
C6) auto into a IIa wagon, very nice.  I think a clevo might be a bit too 
large to fit easily

cheers

daryl

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 23:28:41 -0300
From: rover1@sky.net (Steve Paustian)
Subject: Re: Subscription Prices

>By the exhange rate of 10-23 1GBP=$1.5974 US. That comes to slightly
>over $7.00US per issue.
With the ratio of ad space to editorial space in both LRO and LRW, they
ought to be giving them away.

Steven Paustian
AKA Generalissimo Chaos  (Al U. Minium)
President, Flatland Rover Society
04/500 D90SW

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 20:34 PST
From: Brad Krohn/Deborah Shannon <rover@europa.com>
Subject: Late IIA Genny vs. Alternator

My '69 IIA Bugeye had a C40 generator when I bought it (though the label on
it said the C40 had been 
remanufactured in Winnipeg, Canada). Was told C40 was standard and the 11AC
was the optional alterator
for the '69, combined with the 4TR regulator. Learned this when the parts
guy said, "...and we just 
happen to have a brand new one in a box in back (purchased inventory from
some shop in Denver)."

Works great, except for all of the grief I get from people who wonder why I
stayed with Lucas! Also
because the 11AC is rated at 43A and the Delcos go at about 65A, if I
remember right.

Brad
PDX/OR/USA
========================================================
"Rover? Who drives it?"
"That would be telling..."      --The Prisoner
========================================================

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Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 00:38:21 -0300
From: rover1@sky.net (Steve Paustian)
Subject: Re: simple solution

>I can't. Mine have gaiters on them, like any sensible Rover owner's would...
>Ok I just lit the match...who wants to be the fuse...
>Dave B.

Dave,
        Personal opinion here, but I've always felt that the gaiters tend
to hold in any salts that leach through the leather (or otherwise find an
opening) and we all know that this causes rusty, pitted balls.

Steven Paustian
AKA Generalissimo Chaos  (Al U. Minium)
President, Flatland Rover Society
04/500 D90SW

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 23:29:14 -0700
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Watneys?

At 01:28 PM 10/31/96 EST, you wrote:
>>What is a "Watneys"?

And so begins, once again, the beer thread.  

Did anyone save the list of appropriate LR beers from the last time around?

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 22:44:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: LROA (LONG)

>You will not be receiving any renewal from me.  I would not mind sending it
>in if I knew I would be getting something for the money ...

I understand that a lot of folks have heard basically nothing from the LROA
for a while.  Well, here's my take on things.  (Solely as an interested
member.  I am treasurer, but only because I know how to use quicken and
forgot to step backwards.)

The LROA was going along minding its business for quite a while.  Unbenownst
to many members, however, Most of the work was being done by a few
volunteers.  They got tired.

So, perhaps they should have delegated more, perhaps they should have said
something sooner, perhaps other LRO's should have volunteered, whatever.  It
left LROA at a cusp from which it could not go back.

With lots of members, but no (or few) volunteers, concerns of liability, and
more, something had to be done.  A few people stepped forward and
volunteered to help bring LROA into the next phase of its life cycle.

The plan at this point is to make it a truly national club, and rely on
local clubs (or chapters) to handle local stuff.  But, it's a lot of work.
What has been done so far is to get the club incorporated #1.  This provides
some level of release of liability for the officers.  The other thing is to
get an AW out.  In addition, minor (not really minor) stuff like setting up
new checking accounts, updating the database, and figuring out what to do
about the membership roster takes time.

So here's where things are now.  As I understand it, everyone will get a
year's worth of AW's for their money.  Hopefully, they *will* be quarterly
or thereabouts from now on, but of course there are no guarantees.  Once
everyone's membership is up each member must make a decision whether or not
to renew.  

So, we can all hang in and all we've lost is $20.  Worse case scenario, we
only get the AW that's at the printers, a $20 magazine.  If we renew, the
club keeps going, and who knows what will happen.  If we don't, we lose a
large grouping of LRO's with a 10 year history, a known name (I know, not
always good), and a headstart on something big.  If we lose LROA, we lose
the hope of an ARC-type organization in the US for a long time.  To rebuild
what LROA has now would take a long time and a lot of work.   

Mind you, there's a lot left to be done.  There are apparently a lot of
people with bad feelings about LROA.  They need to be contacted and let know
that LROA wants a second chance.  We need to contact other clubs, and get
them interested.  We need to make sure we get the AW out on time.  It's a
lot of work, but we've got a few very hard working volunteers on the job.
So, if you're a skeptic, sit back and see what happens.  If you're an
optimist, join in and help out. 

If you really don't want LROA to die, do something.  Something as little as
writing a quick article about that nifty tech trick you know about, or the
spiffy secret compartment you built into the bulkhead.  Call some folks in
your area, and tell them about LROA.  Drop me a note with suggestions for
the web pages.  Call or email John Hess and ask what you can do.  

Anyway, that's my unofficial ramblings on the matter.  Sometimes I may seem
like an LROA evangelist, but that's only because I can see the potential of
what's started.  Hopefully, y'all can too.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 22:44:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Nifty GPS resource

For all you Garmin owners, check out <http://home.cds.net/~purple/>.  It's a
guy who makes power/data connectors for Garmin GPS's.  (They're DIY kits for
hooking up whatever you want.)  He asks that you pledge to pay for them
(approx $4-5 US each) and if you like them and all, send him a check.  It's
shareware hardware!  He can handle a bunch of foreign currencies too.  I got
two myself.  

He's also a pretty damn interesting guy in his own right, an LRO-ish kinda
guy for sure.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 09:22:22 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <paul@www.adventures.co.za>
Subject: Re: Dissension among the Yanks

DONOHUEPE@aol.com wrote:
> I have read about the Free Wheeling Hubs on Land Rovers being "Yank Crap".
> Please consider a historical perspective: Were it not for a lot of other
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
>                because they haven't been done before.
>                                             Mark Twain

Hi Paul,

Since I'm the person who first threw the "Yank" appelation into the mix
(not to insult anyone - not even the hyper-sensitive, who are such easy
meat they're not really worth insulting - but merely as a description of
a country of origin), and who has watched in despair as the advice that
I gave, in good faith, has been flogged to death, allow me to attempt
the 'coup de grace' on this subject. I've follwed these postings quite
closely, no-one (particularly not me) mentioned "crap" in the same
sentence as "Yank".

Of the people who responded in support of the point of view that FWH's
aren't the alpha and omega, I can find only 2 who are identifiable as
being of English origin, again particularly not me!

Please lets kill this subject now. And in future lets try a little more
tolerance and a little less dogmatism (I for one subscribe to the lists
to get other opinions on a subject). And please lets leave the violins
at home.

Kind regards

Paul Oxley
http://www.adventures.co.za
"the South African who caused all the trouble" (with apologies to Athol
Fugard)

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 09:27:23 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <paul@www.adventures.co.za>
Subject: Re: simple solution

Steve Paustian wrote:
> >I can't. Mine have gaiters on them, like any sensible Rover owner's would...
> >Ok I just lit the match...who wants to be the fuse...
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> AKA Generalissimo Chaos  (Al U. Minium)
> President, Flatland Rover Society
> 04/500 D90SW

Steve,

Further to your comments, and bearing in mind that today is Austria's
big day (congrats guys!), can you imagine the problems they must have
with lederhosen?

Paul Oxley (ouch)
http://www.adventures.co.za

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:50:27 -0500
From: Tre McCroskey <tmccroskey@CENTER.COLGATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: LROA ??

<<<whatever happened to the LROA ??
you guys got my $$ and I never saw anything but 1 magazine>>>

Yea!!!   I paid for a year's subscription and I only got 1 aluminum
workhorse!!!!!

I was told there were changes going on in the organization of the club, but
I never got my issues.    Any other people in this situation out there?  
-tre

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:20:44 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: October 16 Telegraph...

>                  It will "stand up to Land Rover values", which means
>permanent four-wheel-drive and more mud-plugging ability than the
>average owner will ever require.

Yeah,but will it pull a horse box?

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:34:04 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: simple solution

Doesn't matter if its FWH, coil-springers, LROi, RN, AB, Paddock,
>Craddock, WD-40, Dura-lube, KY-Jelly, duct-tape or gaffer's tape.  If
>you like it buy it,  if you don't like it DON'T BUY IT!!!  I understand
>taking a position from experience but this is starting to look like
>rec.auto.lro.moan.  Let's let some of these threads die.  Do something
>contructive, crawl under and polish your big chrome balls.

Ah well...there goes free speech......:-)

Mike Rooth

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Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:45:20 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re[2]: Watneys?

>Mark G. asks, innocently,
>>Dave,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>>Watneys Red Barrell...I belive that's Mr. Dunsmore's favorite brew...one of
>mine
Watneys?WATNEYS???Did for ale what the model T did for quality cars.
Mass produced brown water with a taste,and not much of that.Particularly
Red Barrel.Dear oh dear oh dear.Drunk by twee people in Vauxhall Corsas.
Not at *all* appropriate.Think of noble names like Bass,Tetley,Courage,
Boddington,Marston,Ruddles...and Guinness.

Shame on you...
And you of all people Dave:-)
Mike Rooth

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