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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:07:29 -0300
From: rover1@sky.net (Steve Paustian)
Subject: Re: Latest ramblings of a hopeless Rover fanatic.

>strain somewhere else, breaking something even harder to fix?
>Tom Cooper SIIA 109 'Safari'
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>Tom Cooper SIIA 109 'Safari'
>Brisbane Australia
You are exactly correct,  the half shafts are designed to fail before
something more serious does.
Steve

Steven Paustian
AKA Generalissimo Chaos  (Al U. Minium)
President, Flatland Rover Society
04/500 D90SW

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 08:18:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Sad Sighting

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) wrote:
>Saw a Discovery with Florida plates and a canoe on top being transported to
>the local dealer on a rollback. So sad...
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]

>Saw a Discovery with Florida plates and a canoe on top being transported to
>the local dealer on a rollback. So sad...

How about a red D90 with "ourjeep" vanity tags...that's really sad!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 08:01:02 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: mounting a Jack-all

Doug mounts his Jack-all...

>>>Interesting question as my Jack-all is rusting as badly as my spare wheel   
rack...

As long as you are in a close relationship with it, you may as well take a few 
minutes with a wire brush and a can of paint. keep the works oiled or it won't 
work...

------------------------------

From: jimallen@207.174.8.25
Date: 16 Oct 1996 06:31:04 MDT
Subject: Re: 1st - 2nd gear D90

Allan,

       How do I say this and remain politically correct? THe R380 has
been known for some failures as you have described. My knowlwdge is
generally second-hand,taken from reports from various technicians around
the country. The earliest versions of the unit werethe most troublesome.
       I'd suggest a trip to your dealer for some warrenty work. If they
work like they do here, they generally replace the box.
       Just in case, you might want to check that your clutch is
releasing properly. A good test is to just go right to reverse. If it
grinds there, your clutch is not releasing properly. BAsic stuff. I
know!
       Best-o-luck!

Jim
jimallen@onlinecol.com

------------------------------

From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 08:42:55 -0400
Subject: Joe goes East?

Spent last Saturday chauffering the wife around to various antique malls,
etc.  My main job was to keep the three year old occupied.  While at one in
Culpepper, VA, the kid and I went to the Massey-Ferguson dealer next door so
he could "drive" the tractors.

Remembering somewhere from the depths of the list that Massey's and Land
Rovers shared Lucas electricals, I checked out to see how close the Massey
alternators matched the Series III.  Lo and behold, the first one I looked at
had a big sticker on it "Made in Poland" and a bunch of Polish? writing.  I
know that the coilers have gone with Bosch, but is someone out there
commenting on how bad Lucas is to have gone with a Polish electrical
system????  or does Lord Lucas meet Vlad the Impaler?

FWIW

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

------------------------------

From: jimallen@207.174.8.25
Date: 16 Oct 1996 06:51:20 MDT
Subject: Re: 3.9 and 4.0 engines

Marin,

       Are you in the UK or USA? My experience is here and I've learned
that the UK and USA are on opposite poles with regards to probelems. We
has continual camshaft failures on the low-lift 3.5 cams that came on
the USA 3.5L EFI. This was seldom noted in the UK (or at least
acknowledged).
       In any case, I'll have to stand by my personal experience with
the engine. Still, I'm interested in information on the problems you
have described. I have a large info database on the Rover V8 so some
hard data would be welcome.
       The "flexing" you described would be unusal in the stiff-block
engines such as the late 3.5, 3.9 and 4.2 - unless you are talking
about 7000 rpm. Since the rev limiter cuts out a stock Range Rover at
about 5500, I doubt this is a problem. For racing purposes, you are
absolutely correct about the "flex" being a problem and the cross-bolted
blocks are better.
       My experience of nightmare engines was with the '91-'93 3.9s.
Head gasket leaks, out of tolerance bores and pistons (we replaced
lots-o pistons and blocks). We also had a rash of poreous blocks in that
era that leaked either coolant or oil (usually coolant).
       Now that we've ripped the Rover V8s apart, lets stay in touch and
share info as it comes. When I get time, I'll post some unusual info on
the Rover V8 that I've collected over the years.

Jim
jimallen@onlinecol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 08:51:41 EDT
From: krm@mtnms.mt.lucent.com (K.MOHLENHOFF)
Subject: Getting Dents out of Doors

Hello;
The front doors on my 88" are really dented up. Mainly from the inside by the PO opening the doors with their foot, the inside door panels were absent when I bought the vehicle. The Rover was used on a farm so I can understand the tough handling. 

What is the best way to flatten the door panels? 

 

Keith

63 IIA 109 SW 2.25D "Lump"
71 IIA 88 2.25P "Ort"

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@aae.wisc.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 08:18:07 -6
Subject: Re: Old LR Dealers

David Cockey writes:
snip
> Does anyone have a '74 or earlier list of LR dealers in North America? If not
> how about compiling a list of pre '74 LR dealers? Name, address, period when
> selling LRs, current status and/or successor business if any would be nice to
> have. Just don't expect any mother lodes of info or parts at this late date.

Somewhere I have the dealer list that came with my '67 LR. In my 
travels in the late '70's and '80's, I checked on as many as I could. 
All gone.
When I was living in Brattleboro, VT in the 80's Al Tocci called me 
and asked me to check out the Dodge dealer in Bratt. He'd received a 
letter asking if he was interested in some parts. I went to the 
dealer and took a look. They had, in their basement, quite a pile of 
parts. The manager handed me a list of part numbers with prices 
(rover list prices). I compared the list to the quantity of parts ( a 
cursory comparison, but I have a pretty good knowlege of series 
parts) and concluded that it was an old list which contained many 
parts not currently present. He was unwilling to change his price, 
which was way too high, so I walked away. I don't know what became of 
the parts, and the dealership became a Subaru dealer, the building 
torn down and replaced, and now it's a Ford dealer.

Al mentioned to me once about a customer of his in Maine that went 
into a CDP dealer once for something and saw a new diesel sitting on 
a pallet. The dealer said it was left over from when they used to 
sell land rover's and he'd like to get it out of his way. I think he 
got it for something like $200.
Won't happen again I bet.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Franz Parzefall <franz@physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: Joe goes East?
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:58:42 +0200 (MET DST)

| Rovers shared Lucas electricals, I checked out to see how close the Massey
| alternators matched the Series III.  Lo and behold, the first one I looked at
| had a big sticker on it "Made in Poland" and a bunch of Polish? writing.  I
| know that the coilers have gone with Bosch, but is someone out there
hm! my 1989 military 110 has an italian alternator made by magnet marelli.
i'm not 100% certain that it is original, but it looks as if it belongs there.
just a thought.
franz
---------------------------------------------------------------
Franz Parzefall                franz@physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de
       _______
      [____|\_\==
      [_-__|__|_-]      Brumml, exmil. 1989 Land Rover 110 2.5D
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__..-
                                  

------------------------------

From: Mark.Maslar@software.rockwell.com (Maslar, Mark)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:03:15 -0400
Subject: RE: dyna-mat

The audio shop that installed the Dyna-Mat said that it comes in sheet   
form. Cut it to the desired shape and use a heat gun (or maybe a hair   
blower?) to set it. I can attest that it made a dramatic difference on my   
D90. (I also had the factory speakers replaced with Infinity Kappa's. But   
it was the enclosures that were buzzing, not the factory speakers. The   
factory speakers clip at high volume, which is a different sound than   
buzzing. Of course, if the speakers are clipping the enclosures will also   
be buzzing -- a lovely combination. NOT!)

I saw Dyna-Mat in the Crutchfield mail-order catalog. If I still have the   
catalog, I'll post some additional info about Dyna-Mat.

Mark Maslar
1995 D90 "The Beast"

> From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@bestinforsg.com>
> I recently read on the list about someone using dyna-mat around the   
rear
> speaker enclosures on the D90 to reduce the vibrations.  Could you
> elaborate a little further on this?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:07:45 -0400
From: Jeff Berry <jaberry@i2020.net>
Subject: re: Rattling speaker/soundproofing

Doug,

Go to a stereo shop that sells Rockford Fosgate, they have this stuff
that is called Noise Killer Yellow.  Its better than dyno mat,
waterproof and goes inside speaker enclosures. They also got Noise
Killer Blue that is also waterproof that is a soundproofing material.
It can be sprayed or brushed on. I plan on doing the whole inside of my
vehicle..

My D90 kinda wants to grind in 2nd also, dont know why..
-- 
***Jeff Berry, Richmond, VA----jaberry@i2020.net
* '94 D90 	
* '94 FLSF

------------------------------

From: Jim Pappas <roverhed@m3.pcix.com>
Subject: RE: D90 Hardtops
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:18:58 -0400

Andy:

All D90s can be fitted (at least the NAS ones) with the plastic hardtop. =
The 94 models do need a few holes drilled but that's all. The 95/97 ones =
will be a direct boltup.

Cheers
Jim

----------
From:  adallas[SMTP:adallas@tiac.net]
Sent:  Wednesday, October 16, 1996 8:55 AM
Subject:  Re: D90 Hardtops

>What is the deal with D90 Hardtops? I have seen/heard conflicting =
reports on
>fitting them with hardtops.  Can any D90 take a hardtop or are there =
certain
>models/years/packages that won't allow a hardtop?

My installation manual mentions the pattern of the holes that have to be =

drilled for the '94 model year. Mine is a '95.
-AD

************************************************************************
 Andrew A. Dallas
 Full Spectrum Software, Inc.             Windows and Macintosh
 30 Whittemore Road                       Software Development
 Newton, MA 02158, USA                    

 (617) 969-7216, On Site Office: (508) 647-2948
 email: adallas@tiac.net, Web Page: http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/
************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@bestinforsg.com>
Subject: RE: dyna-mat
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 10:17:00 PDT

Thanks.  I saw Dyna-Mat in the catalog and will definitely order some.   
 What did they dynamat in the enclosures?  The plastic wall holding the   
speaker or the surrounding metal?  Thanks again...

Douglas Boehme
'95 Red D90 #2767 "Still nameless"

 ----------
From:  LRO-Owner[SMTP:LRO-Owner@playground.sun.com]
Sent:  Wednesday, October 16, 1996 10:03 AM
Subject:  RE: dyna-mat

The audio shop that installed the Dyna-Mat said that it comes in sheet
form. Cut it to the desired shape and use a heat gun (or maybe a hair
blower?) to set it. I can attest that it made a dramatic difference on my   
    

D90. (I also had the factory speakers replaced with Infinity Kappa's. But   
    

it was the enclosures that were buzzing, not the factory speakers. The
factory speakers clip at high volume, which is a different sound than
buzzing. Of course, if the speakers are clipping the enclosures will also   
    

be buzzing -- a lovely combination. NOT!)

I saw Dyna-Mat in the Crutchfield mail-order catalog. If I still have the   
    

catalog, I'll post some additional info about Dyna-Mat.

Mark Maslar
1995 D90 "The Beast"

> From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@bestinforsg.com>
> I recently read on the list about someone using dyna-mat around the
rear
> speaker enclosures on the D90 to reduce the vibrations.  Could you
> elaborate a little further on this?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:23:48 -0400
From: Hank_Lapa@signalcorp.com (Hank Lapa)
Subject: Dunsfold Elephant Hyde

     Some years ago, Rovers North had gained a bit of that last hoard of 
     original grey hyde.  To my great regret, I didn't buy about 30 yards, 
     though they sent a small sample to prove it was exactly the same as my 
     original (and current) interior.  
     
     Is this stuff really still available from Dunsfolds?  What do I need 
     to do to pry some away from them for in a genuine, pretty darn 
     original Series II that is getting a new galv (and black-painted) 
     frame under it right now?
     
     Regards,
     Hank 
      

------------------------------

From: JDolan2109@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:42:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Weslake heads...

 Dixon wrote, quoting:

> 2.25 or Chevy. Maybe in a couple of years NADA 109s will be just legends
with

> just a few years  

:

 Problem with "original" NADA's is the Westlake head.  Nobody is

 going to use one of those on anything else.

Someone might actually use them on a 3 litre P5. Why, one could even sneak
one on an earlier Mk1 or MkII and the un-knowing might not even realize what
they're looking at. With all the conversions and such, please don't toss old,
even trashed 2.6's and 3.0's. Please e-mail here and if there's a way to get
the lump to my barn (Vermont), it can live there until... (do have good
access to trucking) It's a good enough motor for my needs... 
see 'ya on the old road...
Jim '60 P5  Mk1 LHD 4 spd w/OD (628000165)   "Olive(r)"
       '61 LR 88" SW  w/ 16's, OD 1 Bbl weber (econobox?)  "Nicky"
       '68 P6 SC Auto
       '68 P6 TC   <-- For Sale  (50.3K miles, absolutely solid)
       '64 LR 88"  <-- For sale, needs frame, cheap! (why go skiing this
winter?)
       '68 LR 88"  <-- For sale, no tranny, frame shot, very cheap!
       '84 RR  
LR...quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:09:11 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Murricans

 and he baulked at
>Featherstone-Haugh.

If I had a name like Featherstonehaugh(its all one word Steve)or
Cholmondeleigh,I think *I'd* baulk,let alone them:-)

Mike Rooth
(whose surname is pronounceable,but apparently not spellable)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:44:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Weslake heads...

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996 JDolan2109@aol.com wrote:

> Someone might actually use them on a 3 litre P5. Why, one could even sneak
> one on an earlier Mk1 or MkII and the un-knowing might not even realize what
> they're looking at. With all the conversions and such, please don't toss old,

	Doubt it very much.  The 3l head is different, as well as being
	very common, not prone to warping like the Westlake...  The market
	for the Westlake would probably be California where they actually 
	try and enforce pollution regulations.  My understanding is that the
	European 3l head won't meet CA spec.  Besides, there is little we toss
	out up here... :-)

------------------------------

From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@bestinforsg.com>
Subject: mounting a Jack-all and rear seating on a D90
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 12:00:00 PDT

With the top off, everything in the back is exposed.  Fortunately or   
unfortunately, as the case may be.(I guess that would depend on if it's   
raining or not. :> )

My wife and I have been discussing "children" and my feeling is that even   
if you could strap a baby seat into the bench seat, it would be too far   
to reach from the driver's seat if something should happen to the child.   
 Because of this, my wife is looking for something with a back seat that   
she can reach in her quest for a new car.  I tried to convince her that a   
Disco XD was the way to go, but she saw through my little ploy of trying   
to buy lots of Land Rovers. :)

 ----------
From:  Ruffer, Richard[SMTP:rufferr@moodys.com]
Sent:  Wednesday, October 16, 1996 11:44 AM
Subject:  RE: mounting a Jack-all

Thanks.  I'm trying to decide what kind of seat to get. I've had some   
series
owners tell me to get the inward facing individual seats.  It looks like
Barnett tried those and switched to bench seats.  Aesthetically, bench   
seats
sound best, but I'm concerned that any inward facing seat might be too
exposed for children. We don't have any yet, but... ;^)  The forward   
facing
seat appealed to me in that it sits down low, so with the top off   
passengers
are still not that exposed.  Is this true?
Rich

 ----------
From: Boehme, Doug
Subject: RE: mounting a Jack-all
Date: Wednesday, October 16, 1996 11:29AM

Nope.  It is "snug" but it does fit without any undue stress on the seat
and it's mountings.  I would consider possibly getting the seats that
mount on the benches instead of the single seat facing forward.  When the
soft top is on, it's a PAIN in the ass to get in the back when you have
the single seat. (or so I've observed...  I've never sat in the back
myself)  With the bench mounted seats facing inward, you can pop out the
back window and just climb in.  I have heard that the bench mounted seats
can be a bit uncomfortable, but instead of seating 2 in the back, you can
seat 4 and you really don't lose much storage space.  I'm currently
considering removing my current seat and replacing it with the 4 seats...

If you want to see my setup and are in the Philadelphia area, let me
know, and I can meet you.

Douglas Boehme
'95 Red D90 #2767

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:12:33 -0700
From: Greg Spitz <Gspitz@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: D90 Hardtops

Jim Pappas wrote:
> Andy:
> All D90s can be fitted (at least the NAS ones) with the plastic hardtop. =
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 35 lines)]
>  email: adallas@tiac.net, Web Page: http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/
> ************************************************************************Very happy with my D90 hardtop...get some extra sealastic to keep air and 
water out....the dealer install took 6 hours by their report,they had 
never done it before

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: mounting a Jack-all and rear seating on a D90
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 17:23:16 BST

When trying to mount your jack, you find everything is exposed when you take
your top off...

> With the top off, everything in the back is exposed.  Fortunately or   
> unfortunately, as the case may be.(I guess that would depend on if it's   
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> Disco XD was the way to go, but she saw through my little ploy of trying   
> to buy lots of Land Rovers. :)

Howabout strapping your wife to the bench seat, too? She'd be in easy reach
of the kid(s) then. Smacking distance infact...

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR) 

------------------------------

From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@bestinforsg.com>
Subject: RE: mounting a Jack-all and rear seating on a D90
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 12:41:00 PDT

If I strap my wife in to the rear seat, and she takes her top off, is   
everything exposed?

Quite a conundrum!

:)

Douglas Boehme
'95 Red D90 #2767

 ----------

When trying to mount your jack, you find everything is exposed when you   
take
your top off...

> With the top off, everything in the back is exposed.  Fortunately or
> unfortunately, as the case may be.(I guess that would depend on if it's   
    

         [ truncated by lro-lite (was 11 lines)]
> Disco XD was the way to go, but she saw through my little ploy of   
trying
> to buy lots of Land Rovers. :)

Howabout strapping your wife to the bench seat, too? She'd be in easy   
reach
of the kid(s) then. Smacking distance infact...

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:13:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: cmw@tiac.net (Christopher Weinbeck)
Subject: Pistons! /stickers?

Hi all!

As many of you may know I've been searching for various and sundry parts for
my 109" (for way too long...).

Well thanks to the list, and Alan Logue in particular I now have pistons!!
(and let me tell you that they are the most beautiful pistons I've ever seen)

I owe a great debt to Alan, and recognize my debt to Roverdom in general also.

Since I'm posting anyway -there was some talk about LRO@Land-Rover.Team.Net
window stickers.  Are people still interested??  I've got a friend in the
printing business who owes me BIG, I could get 3.5" x 5" ovals in green and
white or yellow for something like $3 each, or two for $5 if 100 are wanted.
(inside, static cling would be a little more)

Mail me direct or we can kick it around on the list, or whatever.

P.S.  Whomever owns parts can do whatever they want with them -I'm pretty
sure that there would be general moaning and gnashing of teeth if someone
were selling serII limited slip diffs for installation in Landcrushers.

Chris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Christopher Weinbeck       Office Logic, Inc.      V (508) 392-0288
   _______                  7 Littleton Road        F (508) 692-0897   
  |__][_[_\__               Westford, MA 01886    Computerization for 
  |___\_|_]__]                                      the healthcare
    (o)    (o)  '69 109" RHD OD 2.6 Dormobile        professional        
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@mail.biddeford.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:24:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Getting Dents out of Doors

On 16 Oct 96 at 8:51, K.MOHLENHOFF wrote:

> Hello;
> The front doors on my 88" are really dented up. Mainly from the inside by the PO opening the doors with their foot, the inside door panels were absent when I bought the vehicle. The Rover was used
 o
>  a farm so I can understand the tough handling. 

> What is the best way to flatten the door panels? 
> The front doors on my 88" are really dented up. Mainly from the inside by the PO opening the doors with their foot, the inside door panels were absent when I bought the vehicle. The Rover was used
 
> Keith
> The front doors on my 88" are really dented up. Mainly from the inside by the PO opening the doors with their foot, the inside door panels were absent when I bought the vehicle. The Rover was used

Have you tried closing the doors with your foot?

Cheers!

Ron Franklin

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

------------------------------

From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@bestinforsg.com>
Subject: RE: mounting a Jack-all and rear seating on a D90
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 13:20:00 PDT

To me, the Defender (convertible version) is the best kid transport in   
that if they puke, etc. you can just hose down the kid and the interior   
without a problem.  I think there is at least a driver's side airbag, but   
I'm not sure.

BTW, I just changed my insurance companies and the new one can't believe   
that a '95 vehicle exists without air-bags, passive alarm, automated   
seat-belts, and anti-lock brakes.  I told the agent it was a tank, and I   
would probably destroy anything that I hit.  Somehow, I don't think she   
was too pleased with this... :)

Douglas Boehme
'95 Red D90 #2767

 ----------
The Disco does make a great kid hauler.  There is a nice wide gap
between the front seats which makes reaching back very easy.  Also, the   
rear
seats sit a little higher than the front and with infant seats, the   
children
sit nice and high and can see out.  The four door configuration makes
strapping them in and out very easy and strollers/wagons etc. stow nicely   
in
the rear.  It gets my wife's stamp of approval.  Now get this.  My wife   
is
interested in the new Defenders coming out since they are automatic and   
have
a hard top.  Buying one would still be a few years away - have to get the
Disco paid off first.  She thinks it would also make a good family   
hauler.
I haven't mentioned the tougher interior yet;^)  Out of curiosity, will   
the
97's have air bags?

Dave

------------------------------

From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@bestinforsg.com>
Subject: RE: mounting a Jack-all and rear seating on
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 13:21:00 PDT

 ----------
From:  Boehme, Doug
Sent:  Wednesday, October 16, 1996 12:00 PM
Cc:  'LRO'; rro
Subject:  mounting a Jack-all and rear seating on

With the top off, everything in the back is exposed.  Fortunately or
unfortunately, as the case may be.(I guess that would depend on if it's   
    

raining or not. :> )

My wife and I have been discussing "children" and my feeling is that even   
    

if you could strap a baby seat into the bench seat, it would be too far   
    

to reach from the driver's seat if something should happen to the child.   
    

 Because of this, my wife is looking for something with a back seat that   
    

she can reach in her quest for a new car.  I tried to convince her that a   
    

Disco XD was the way to go, but she saw through my little ploy of trying   
    

to buy lots of Land Rovers. :)

 ----------
From:  Ruffer, Richard[SMTP:rufferr@moodys.com]
Sent:  Wednesday, October 16, 1996 11:44 AM
Subject:  RE: mounting a Jack-all

Thanks.  I'm trying to decide what kind of seat to get. I've had some
series
owners tell me to get the inward facing individual seats.  It looks like
Barnett tried those and switched to bench seats.  Aesthetically, bench
seats
sound best, but I'm concerned that any inward facing seat might be too
exposed for children. We don't have any yet, but... ;^)  The forward
facing
seat appealed to me in that it sits down low, so with the top off
passengers
are still not that exposed.  Is this true?
Rich

 ----------
From: Boehme, Doug
Subject: RE: mounting a Jack-all
Date: Wednesday, October 16, 1996 11:29AM

Nope.  It is "snug" but it does fit without any undue stress on the seat
and it's mountings.  I would consider possibly getting the seats that
mount on the benches instead of the single seat facing forward.  When the
soft top is on, it's a PAIN in the ass to get in the back when you have
the single seat. (or so I've observed...  I've never sat in the back
myself)  With the bench mounted seats facing inward, you can pop out the
back window and just climb in.  I have heard that the bench mounted seats
can be a bit uncomfortable, but instead of seating 2 in the back, you can
seat 4 and you really don't lose much storage space.  I'm currently
considering removing my current seat and replacing it with the 4 seats...

If you want to see my setup and are in the Philadelphia area, let me
know, and I can meet you.

Douglas Boehme
'95 Red D90 #2767

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 11:03:50    
From: William Dan Terry <wterry@netpubsintl.com>
Subject: LRNA test grounds

Dave brought up an outing and there's been some response.

Bummed that I'd miss this, having moved from DC to CO last Dec.

The photo op/marketing idea may not be that unreasonable. It would probably look great for 
LRNA on their marketing material to have a bunch of LRs of all ages owned by real people 
off-roading instead of just those file photos.

Criswell Chevrolet was (and may still be) the DC Lotus dealer. Each year they'd have a big 
Lotus promo day and invite us to bring our Lotuses (of all ages through the local club 
chapter) for a car show. Fun for us to get together and they fed us, gave us shirts and other 
goodies. Part of their marketing was to notify people who'd come by before expressing interest 
to come for the festivities. Good for them to show the spirit behind the marque.

LR fits the same way and maybe LRNA will see that.

Happy Rovering, William
'66 109 mil ht, daily driver
'61 88 sw, future electric or hybrid project
'74 Lotus Europa Special

______________W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______________
  How do we acquire wisdom along with all these shiny things? (David Brin)

  wterry@netpubsintl.com
  http://www.netpubsintl.com
  Director of Technology, NetPubs International

------------------------------

From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@bestinforsg.com>
Subject: old mail address
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 13:26:00 PDT

Well, it's starting to do it...  I'm getting 5 postings of each message   
as well as 5 digests a day.  HELP!

Who is moderating/administering this list?  I need to get rid of any   
address from any subscription with the name dboehme in it. (except for   
dboehme@bestinforsg.com)  My e-mail administrator has told me that my   
return address has changed 5 different times in the past 3 months, and   
he's not sure what the addresses might be.  (yeah, I know, fire him...   
 wish I could)

HELP! HELP! HELP!

Douglas "pulling my hair out" Boehme
'95 Red D90 #2767

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:22:37 +0200
From: pwakefie@esis.esrin.esa.it (Paul Wakefield - System Manager (SERCO) X492)
Subject: Inane ramblings

Hi All

Re: Dormobiles. No only kidding, i'm not putting my head over _that_ parapet.

Re: Hardened Valve Seats. 

I've run my 2.25 for a year on unleaded without significant repercussions. I 
agree with the consensus on this one, on the next head job replace the valve 
seats then. 
IMHO I believe the savings by using unleaded you get over a year instad of using 
leaded offset the cost of premature (if any) failure of the valve/seats.
The valve recession will be gradual and the tail off in power should be 
exponential  (ok, except on hills !). Does this make sense ?

Re: Steering Relays

I squirmed in terror at the recent story of the jammed steeing relay, especially 
the phrase "We unbolted the top 4 bolts". Are the stories of these relays quite 
as bad as is made out ? ie, when the spring lets go it will almost remove body 
parts obstructing its flight path ?
(I replaced mine 'en masse' when it got sloppy) 

Re: Rust inside frame members

eheite@dmv.com (Ned Heite) Wrote
> In order to stop the oxidation process, either as rust or as fire, you must
> remove the fuel, the oxygen, or the temperature. Since you can't freeze the
> frame cold enough and still start your car....

Eh ? Can anyone explain to me how _temperature_ affects the rate of corrosion ?
I agree corrosion is due to oxidation, and is accelerated by galvanic effects 
due to the prescence of an electrolyte (eg. salt water) but temperature ?
(Sorry, I am not a closet chemist, but enquiring minds want to know....)

Regards, Paul.

------------------------------

From: "David Olley at New Concept" <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: LRNA test grounds
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:33:53 +0100

What on earth does Dave Bobeck think he is doing?
He "worries" about bandwidth, and then encourages people on the list
to take their Land Rovers off road.
This list is full of mail about rotting frames, engines with no
power, and electrics that work by the power of prayer.
It is obvious that if most of these vehicles ventured off a smooth
road they would never return, and the list would become overloaded
with questions about how to remove branches from the Dormobile spice
rack.
Off roading? In a Land Rover?
Who are you kidding.

David G. Olley
-----------------------------------------------------
New Concept, PO Box 61, Winchester, SO23 8XR, England
Tel: +44-(0)1962-840769  Fax: +44-(0)1962-867367
Web Site: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
-----------------------------------------------------
1974 SIII 88 - Now with new improved rebuilt turbine like 2.5l petrol
engine. Wow.
Can't wait to get the wheels muddy.

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 16 Oct 96 14:38:18 EDT
Subject: Re: Temperature affecting rusting:

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:42:24 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Re: Inane ramblings

Paul Wakefield - System Manager (SERCO) X492 wrote:

> Eh ? Can anyone explain to me how _temperature_ affects the rate of corrosion ?

Oxidation is a spontaneous chemical reaction.  As with all chemical
reactions,
it's rate is temperature dependant (except in the case of a catalyst or
enzyme).
I believe Ned was speaking with some jest about lowering the temp of the
frame
since rusting will still occur at very low temps albeit at a slower
rate.
One must only get the atoms "excited" to the energy of reaction and when
the 
temperature is high, the percentage of atoms at that level is high and
when
the temp is low....

You see a similiar phenomenon in car batteries.
-- 
Nate  Dunsmore
88" SIIa ("The Blue Brick" http://members.aol.com/naddmd/first.htm )
dunsmo19@us.net

------------------------------

From: houniet@xs4all.nl
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:50:52 +0100
Subject: Re: LRNA test grounds

David Olley at New Concept wrote:

> 1974 SIII 88 - Now with new improved rebuilt turbine like 2.5l petrol
> engine. Wow.
> Can't wait to get the wheels muddy.

		jep, just carefully sprinkle some loose earth on the wheels, while
protecting the freewheel hubs, and spinkle lightly with clean
water......

But seriously, couldn't you bake the Landrover after off roading so the
high temperature would make the frame rust away immediatly , and turn
the mud into a rustless terracotta frame...?

------------------------------

From: houniet@xs4all.nl
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:57:41 +0100
Subject: Re: Inane ramblings

Nathan Dunsmore wrote:

> One must only get the atoms "excited" to the energy of reaction and when the
> temperature is high, the percentage of atoms at that level is high and when
> the temp is low....
> You see a similiar phenomenon in car batteries

and in the washing machine, as the temperature gets higher the atoms get
more and more exited and so the volume of water increases, but why then
do my clothes shrink?? (does it have to do with mud, or landrover oil
impregnation?)

floris houniet
109 '69 ex ambulance, now a hardtop, nearly safari.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:09:08 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: LR's in the news

Hi all,

Just perusing the newstand library and came across an article in the
November
Automobile magazine on LRs.  To be precise, it was about Marvin Kittman,
his
1964 US Presidential campaign and his LR.  Cute LR ad of the era in on
of
the illustrations.
-- 
Nate Dunsmore
88" SIIa ("The Blue Brick" http://members.aol.com/naddmd/first.htm )
dunsmo19@us.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:12:19 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Re: Inane ramblings

houniet@xs4all.nl wrote:

 and so the volume of water increases, but why then
> do my clothes shrink?? (does it have to do with mud, or landrover oil
> impregnation?)

Yes.
You should pre-treat with Waxoyl before wearing.
-- 
Nate

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:24:09 -0400
Subject: Spark plug gaps for IIA

Can someone tell me the spark plug gaps for a IIA, 2 1/4 l engine?  I'm
lacking the proper manuals so any assistance is appreciated.  Also, please
respond directly to "gelam30092@aol.com" since I'm subscribed in digest mode.
 Thank you!
Gerry Elam
PHX  AZ

Gerry Elam
PHX  AZ
'95 Disco "Great White"
'64 "88    "Soldado Sangrando"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:26:41 -0700
From: paarch@ix.netcom.com (Paul Archibald)
Subject: frame-replacement/steering Relay

As some of you know. I am doing a frame-replacement on my 88". I have
managed to completely strip down the doner frame, and remove it from my
drive-way to please the local whiners/police.
The frame, bulkhead, fenders etc... are hidden away on the side of the garage.
I rigged up a set of wheels to the right bulkhead-outrigger so it can be
rolled back easily into the drive to work on.(Ben, you said that you and
Scott easily? picked up your spare frame. I guess I need to be taking the
vitamins you take :^) the thing is a bear to manouver, even with the
wheels.

My predicament is as follows. The steering relay is apparently rusted into
the frame? I have been soaking it with liquid-wrench to no avail. Big
hammer no help either. Will it help to apply heat?
I am planning on having the frame galvanized when I have welded on the new
brackets for the left fuel tank and possibly rear tank as well, and if need
be for the "new" Koenig rear-mount PTO winch (thanks Peter O.) so I cannot
leave the relay in. I am probably not going to even use this relay anyway,
since I am keeping the truck RHD and need to weld in the necessary tabs,
nuts and tube on the right side for my old relay which is good, but might
be stuck as well in the old chassis, Aargggggh! Any good suggestions?
Paul

Paul Archibald
paarch@ix.netcom.com
(parch@smmff.com during the week at work)
(510)353-1320 or wk. (408)487-1336
'58 88" RHD 2-litre ....uh oh Lucas strikes again :^(
'87 Range-Rover-over 160,000 miles-back from the dead "going strong" (Squeak)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:33:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: 12/4/95 <rsloan@titan.liunet.edu>
Subject: reluctant shift 1st to 2nd

Doug asked if any D90 owners have had any sticky shifts going from 1st to=

2nd, and the answer is=C9(drum roll please=C9) YES!  Although it just seeme=
d
to have started recently, within the last thousand miles or so.  After
reading some of the shifting clutching deals some series owners have to
put up with, as in all that double clutch stuff, I tried letting the
stick return to center before moving into second, and when I do that,
everything seems kosher.  Also, it doesn't happen at a direct shift to
2nd @ around 2800 rpm.  Another funny thing happened to me on the way to
the forum.  I brought my 90 in for some rusted bolts to be replaced, and
got a ride in another 90 back to my place of work.  As we left the
parking lot, and every time we stopped or slowed, it seemed he came out
of 1st too early, so when I looked at the rpms I noticed the driver shifted=

out of 1st @ 2200-2500.  I'm usually shifting out of 1st @ 2800-3100, which=

just seems to feel right, but perhaps contributes to "sticky shift." Also, =
he
never downshifted into first, even when we were rolling slowly.  So what
do you think about that?  That meaty engine rev I hear when accelerating
into 2nd may be detrimental?  When I shift sooner rather than later the
engine sounds labored. Am I working my Rover too much?  I tried
shifting sooner but it just doesn't feel right.  The manual says "normal"=

engine revs are from 2000 to 5000 (if I remember correctly, which I may
not) Can an engine be "trained" so to speak, to respond correctly
at a certain rpm by force of driver habit?  Obviously different gears/terra=
ins
require different rpms but I'd be interested to know what the shifting patt=
erns
of other LRO's are.

Rich
D90 #2948

P.S Can somebody help me find a 109 frame?  I need about 18=C9

------------------------------

Date: 16 Oct 96 13:59:57 PDT
From: <DV043@OASIS.CALPOLY.EDU>
Subject: Uncl: Weber or not...

From: John W. Henricks, Programmer/Analyst
      Institutional Studies
      01-309
Another day, another question.  I've just purchased a Weber 32/36 carb
and a Pierce manifold to go with it.  The instructions state that the
existing linkage can be adapted to the Weber without any additional
bits.

However... the throttle lever action on the Solex goes up, the lever
action on the Weber goes down, they appear to be in about the same
position and other THAT it looks really straight forward.

Has anyone installed one of these, or the other Weber carb (34) and
how did you handle the linkage?  Can you reverse the linkage action
by swaping around the bits on the lower linkage spindle or something?

BTW I have no opinions regarding brothers, Dormobiles, or the parts
thereof.

Any replies appreciated.

John
62 SIIA 109 HT 'Ulysses'

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Net:  jhenrick@calpoly.edu
Tel:  (805)756-5408
Fax:  (805)756-5292

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:03:22 -0700
From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Subject: Re: frame-replacement/steering Relay

Paul Archibald wrote:

> As some of you know. I am doing a frame-replacement on my 88". snip
> My predicament is as follows. The steering relay is apparently rusted into
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> nuts and tube on the right side for my old relay which is good, but might
> be stuck as well in the old chassis, Aargggggh! Any good suggestions?

Well,  I've no experience at getting these bastards out, but apart from a lot of 
force and associated approaches, it occurs to me that in your case there might
be another solution.  Since you're going to have to worry about accurate location
of the other relay anyway and are also going to be welding anyway, my suggestion is:

Why not cut the front crossmember out and replace it?
Or cut out the relay and patch the frame.

Doubtless this is more expensive, but probably not much, and, after all, hassle(time)is money.

cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:59:13 -0400
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (East Coast Rover Co.)
Subject: frame galv.

Dear all,
        Noticed a few posts about getting old frames galv. Just a note so
you can check with your galv. company first. The place we use will NOT
allow anything but white metal *with surface rust is OK* in the tanks. We
have to bead blast the stuff, make sure it is free of paint etc. The
process they use, eats away all the rust in the first step, then does the
galv. BUT they tell me that the solution used to remove the rust will not
eat paint. Sounds odd, but that is what they say. So those outriggers that
you weld on from RN, all come painted black inside an out... will the galv.
actually work? Check with your galv. company. We accidentally let a seat
belt bracket through that didn't get balsted and had paint on it, it came
back as a glob of encrusted crud... had the toss it out. We use Duncan
Galv. in Boston, but other place might be different.
        See ya!

From: Mike Smith
East Coast Rover Co.                    207.594.8086
21 Tolman Road  *Rt. 90*                207.594.8120 fax
Warren, Maine 04864                     ecrover@midcoast.com
    Land Rover Service, Sales, Restoration, and More
        Series Coil Chassis Specialists

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:14:44 -0700
From: Christopher Dow <dow@thelen.org>
Subject: Re: Dunsfold Elephant Hyde

British Northwest claims to have some, but I've heard that they have been
run through the ringer on this list.  Anyon care to comment on them?

C
'65 IIA 88" SW
'96 Disco SD

At 10:23 AM 10/16/96 -0400, you wrote:
>     Some years ago, Rovers North had gained a bit of that last hoard of 
>     original grey hyde.  To my great regret, I didn't buy about 30 yards, 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
>     frame under it right now?
>     Regards,
>     Hank 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 19:23:20 -0400
From: agscsmps@post.kosone.com (s stoneham)
Subject: Series I Transmission trouble 3rd and 4th gears

Hi All,

A friend of mine recently asked me again to post a question regarding his
1955 Series I,
He cant seem to engage 3rd or 4th gear.Any suggestions on a remedy and or
possible cause?
Any insight you may be able to offer will be greatly appreciated.
I suppose the chances a Series II transmission replacing(and actually
fitting) his original are pretty slim?
Regards,
Steve

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 19:34:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Dunsfold Elephant Hyde

In a message dated 96-10-16 18:22:21 EDT, you write:

>British Northwest claims to have some, but I've heard that they have been
>run through the ringer on this list.  Anyon care to comment on them?

I ordered some things thru them...
Had no problems but...
you can be sure of one thing...
you will PAY $$$$
Rgds
Steve  Bradke            72 S lll 88 ( for sale )
WA2GMC                  68 S lla 88
                                 96 Discovery

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 19:44:42 -0400
Subject: Re: frame-replacement/steering Relay

In a message dated 96-10-16 17:40:27 EDT, you write:

>o
>the frame? I have been soaking it with liquid-wrench to no avail. Big
>hammer no help either.

Paul;
>Go to NAPA auto parts and ask for Blaster PB give it a good soaking with
this stuff.  I bet it will free  up that relay.  I used this on the swivel
ball to axle bolts and with my metrinch wrenches I was able to turn them off
by hand!!
you can also order direct 1-800-858-6605   they are in Cleveland Ohio
hope this helps
as someone else here on the list said..." the stuff smells like a toxic waste
dump but it worked for me"
Rgds
Steve Bradke         72 S lll 88 ( for sale )
WA2GMC              68 S lla 88
                             96 Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:03:06 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Re: frame galv.

East Coast Rover Co. wrote:

> Dear all,
>         Noticed a few posts about getting old frames galv. Just a note so
> you can check with your galv. company first. The place we use will NOT
> allow anything but white metal *with surface rust is OK* in the tanks. 

Just curious,
Do you prime and paint after galvinizing? 

Nate Dunsmore

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:12:24 -0700
From: jouster@rocket.com (John Ousterhout)
Subject: Re: Dunsfold Elephant Hyde

>British Northwest claims to have some, but I've heard that they have been
>run through the ringer on this list.  Anyon care to comment on them?

NO.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:19:12 -0700
From: jouster@rocket.com (John Ousterhout)
Subject: Re: Series I Transmission trouble 3rd and 4th gears

>A friend of mine recently asked me again to post a question regarding his
>1955 Series I,
>He cant seem to engage 3rd or 4th gear.Any suggestions on a remedy and or
>possible cause?
IF the seriesI has the same style synchro as IIa's, then I've had the same 
thing happen. The 3 flat detent springs inside the synchro "cage" flop 
sideways, locking the synchro from moving. It is possible to correct from 
the top of the tranny, but it probably means the springs are worn-out and 
the synchro needs replaced. After it happened a third time to me, I replaced 
the springs and have had no reoccurance. At least I was able to drive home 
in 2nd.

JohnO

------------------------------

From: Hegarty Lindsay <HegartyL@exchange.lands.qld.gov.au>
Subject: RE: Rust inside frame members
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:37:24 +1000

Truncated from original message

>While coating your frame
>in Hoppe's  #9 might work, I have heard good reports from plain old used
>motor oil. Fill the frame with motor oil, plug all the holes, and slosh it
>around. It helps if the frame is off the car.

I couldn't agree more Ned.

There are a huge range of rust inhibiting products available in the
market but the cheapest and just as effective product is churning around
in our rover motors.........used motor oil.  Sure it's messier and might
not smell as nice as a rust inhibitor, but it works.

My current vehicle is a RR' 83, I've previously owned a SII' 68 wagon
and a SIII' 75 trayback.  All of these vehicles have had 4-6 saltwater
exposures a year traveling along ocean beaches to camping spots.  Before
and after each trip I spray the outside of the chassis and pump a
quantity of oil inside the chassis.  I do not even attempt to block all
the chassis holes, just a few key ones. We're not trying to fill the
entire chassis with oil!, rather just hold the oil in there long enough
to allow it to slosh around for a while as you drive it over some bumps
and at various angles.  After the "sloshing" I park the vehicle over
some flattened cardbord boxes, take out the plugs and let the chassis
drain (just like spaghetti).

The only problem with just using engine oil is that it doesn't stick for
very long to the vertical sides of the chassis.  To overcome this I mix
a portion (1 in 5) of Ensis Oil (A SHELL rust inhibitor product) with
the used motor oil.  The Ensis oil helps the mixture stick to the sides
of the chassis.

This method has worked OK for me, I have had no problems with rust.  The
key thing to remember in fighting rust is to spray regularly and always
be on the lookout for new rust spots. I have seen/heard plenty examples
of people who have a vehicle professionally rustproofed once, and wonder
why after a couple of years beach work that rust is appearing.

Regards.....Lindsay

Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:33:18 -0700
From: jouster@rocket.com (John Ousterhout)
Subject: Re: Uncl: Weber or not...

John W. Henricks asks:
>existing linkage can be adapted to the Weber without any additional
>bits.
>However... the throttle lever action on the Solex goes up, the lever

When I replaced the Solex with Weber carb, the adapter KIT included the new 
arm for the linkage, which reversed the direction and increased the throw 
(by being longer). The original arm could have been reversed by itself, I 
think, but it may have had some non-reversable features I've forgotten. It 
definitely would not work without it. This was so confusing that it 
eventually led to the complete elimination of throttle linkages, and I 
haven't missed them since.

'64 109 diesel 5-door (Safari-SoGoodi) 465,000 miles on the few remaining 
original parts.
jouster@earth.rocket.com (John Ousterhout)

------------------------------

From: "David Booth" <dbooth@innotts.co.uk>
Subject: FOR - Paul Hanson - Engine noise
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:55:22 +0100

I tried to reply to you message but it just came back (damn boomerang mail
servers!)

Well here it is anyway

---------------------------------
Well Paul,

I haven`t had it long so I don`t know much, but my engine seems quite quiet
when it is ticking over but if you load it like accelerating hard, the
extra load on the engine causes it to make a noise which does sound like
knocking. I think this is normal for all old diesels, they are louder
because there is much higher compresion needed than petrol engines.
I hope this has been helpful to you.

David Booth

------------------------------

From: Jon Haskell <kb9cml@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 109 Questions
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 00:47:08 +0000

Next week I will be travelling to evaluate a 109" Series III as a possible
restoration project.  I have downloaded what appears to be a fairly
comprehensive tutorial on what to look for; however I am open to any
suggestions that the readership may have. I do have two specific questions.
 1.  How can one identify a Salsberry (sp?)axle and is this heavier built
rearend commonplace on a Series III?
      If not standard on the Series III, would you recommend installing?
 2.  Is the conversion to coil springs worth the investment? Expressed
another way, is the difference in ride significantly better with the coil
suspension?

Thanking you in advance,

Jon and Aaron Haskell
Discovery and D90HT

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:27:25 -0500
From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Subject: Re: 1st - 2nd gear D90

On 16 Oct 1996, jimallen@207.174.8.25 wrote:

>       I'd suggest a trip to your dealer for some warrenty work. If they
>work like they do here, they generally replace the box.
Jim - 
I would like nothing more than to visit the dealership with the 90, but it is 10 
days by ship across the pond :-(   

>       Just in case, you might want to check that your clutch is
>releasing properly. A good test is to just go right to reverse. If it
>grinds there, your clutch is not releasing properly. BAsic stuff. I
>know!

But timely! Many thanks   Just this afternoon I got my clutch seal kit by FedEx 
from Barbados and was back on the road before dark. When I lost the clutch a 
week or so ago I found that the slave dust cover was detached and obviously 
flapping about on the pushrod, and the pushrod-to-release lever clip was 
disconnected. The clutch now feels very good. No chance to try a hill until 
tomorrow but on the level it drops into 2nd as if into a corner pocket made for 
it.
Cheers
Allan

Allan Smith
Caribbean Natural Resources Institute
Vieux Fort
St. Lucia, West Indies.
Tel +(758) 454 6060
Fax +(758) 454 5188

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:48:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: Dunsfold Elephant Hyde (possible sources)

Christopher inquires:
>British Northwest claims to have some, but I've heard that they have been
>run through the ringer on this list.  Anyon care to comment on them?

My recollection from talking with them is that they have some but will not
sell just material, only as made up parts. Personal experience with them is
not bad but I've only bought small items. Prices are high but sometimes they
have odd-ball stuff others don't. Call first and discuss your needs and get a
quote.

Back to elephant hyde. I understand that Jackson of Doncaster sold a number
of military surplus rolls several years ago (none left now). No idea where
they went. Anybody else know anything?

Dunsfold has some but are picky about who they sell it to.

The defunct Rover Works of NY claimed to have had a roll. Wonder where it
went along with the rest of their part collection.

Very similar material is available from "Woolies" in England, Telephone
number was 0778 347347, is probably now 01778 347347. Likewise fax is
probably now 01778 341847. Very friendly folks who are specialists in vintage
and classic car trim. I haven't purchased from them yet though. Call and ask
for samples. From the samples they sent me it isn't an identical match, but
very close. I don't think anyone could tell the difference except by a side
by side comparison with new material.

Someone might also try Bill Hirsch in NJ who advertises Hemmings.

Regards,
David Cockey 

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:55:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Old LR Dealers

Mike writes:
>I have the "Rover Distributers and Dealers - Thirteenth Edition" dated Nov
>1964 (part # 4315 no less!)

Does this also list North American dealers or does it just give Rover Motor
Co. of North America's address?

Any proposals on how to compile and diseminate a dealer list? Any significant
interest?

David Cockey

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 18:59:10 -0700
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Getting Dents out of Doors

At  8:51 AM 10/16/96 -0400, K.MOHLENHOFF wrote:

>What is the best way to flatten the door panels?

Check into the price of a new door.  Door and wing skins are very cheap.
You didn't say where you are.  If you are in the US, British Pacific has, I
believe, the best price.  It was cheaper for me to purchase a new door than
to have a shallow dent pulled by a professional.  When the aluminum is bent
it has been streched. You need to shrink aluminum paneling.  not a lot of
people are good at that.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:11:27 -0400
Subject: HUMMER sale

For what its worth:

HUMMER of Detroit is heavily advertising on radio this week an open house
with invitation to test drive a HUMMER. Claiming special sale prices starting
at $39,000. Tag line is: go where no one has gone before. Any LR owners going
to take up the challenge?

On a more serious note I wonder if this indicates anything about the market
for expensive off road machines? Maybe LRNA is making the right move with the
limited run of '97 D90s. Maybe the market of those better than new series LRs
will soften. Or maybe this is peculair to HUMMERs in Michigan.

Actually the above is intended to waken Jim Pappas and spark another lecture
on the inherent superiority of LRs.

Regards,
David Cockey

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:35:59 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Valve seats

WRT the thread on "hardened" valve seats for the 2.6, basically, *any* 
competent machine shop should be able to install them.  These things are 
available in generic sizes; installation involves cuting into the cylinder 
head to match whatever proprietaty design the seats have.  The seats would 
then be machined to match the valves.  If you are considering such a job, 
ask the shop for a "triple grind" on the valves/seats.  This provides better 
sealing, superior centering and improved laminar flow.

Now it's time for a quiz.  Take out your pens and papers, this is a
*written* test.

1) Compare and contrast the ARB bumper to the Safari Gard.

I've got prices and delivery times on each.  *No one* in North America has 
an ARB in stock right now, it's 4-6 weeks until a shipment (now being loaded 
in Australia) reaches distributors in the US.  Best price I've found is Bill 
Burke's 4 Wheelin at about $605.  (Others were marginally more.)  The SG is 
$950 and three weeks.  I haven't seen the SG, but I sure like the concept of 
being able to incorporate a front skid plate in the furure.  Cheers

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *---1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:03:05 -0400
From: Richard Ruffer <rruffer@world2u.com>
Subject: Re: reluctant shift 1st to 2nd

Rich wrote:
> I'd be interested to know what the shifting patterns
> of other LRO's are.

I usually shift my D90 at around 3100-3300 RPM.  I read that maximum
torque is generated at 3100, so I don't usually see a need to push too
far beyond (execept maybe when getting on a highway). I haven't had
problems shifting from 1st to 2nd.  I used to have a catch when shifting
into 4th which would keep the gears from fully engaging, but as the
transmission has broken in (now at 16,500 miles), that seems to have
gone away. I do have the earlier transmission, the LT77.  I think they
switched to the R380 somewhere in the middle of the 1994 production run.

Rich Ruffer
Morristown, NJ
rruffer@world2u.com
'94 D90 (#634 with an LT77)

------------------------------

From: Jim Pappas <roverhed@m3.pcix.com>
Subject: Fall Heritage V
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:31:55 -0400

The BSROA Fall Heritage Event V was held over the past weekend on a =
perfect weather weekend in the Berkshire mountains.

We had a record attendance in the Club's history with almost 60 Land =
Rovers present and over 100 people in attendance.

We had a good cross section of vehicles. From a 4.6HSE to a Series One. =
Lotsa D90s.

The trail selections this year by Denis-Marc Nault offered skill levels =
from novice to near-extreme (only locker-equipped vehicles could make =
the top).

There was minimal damage recorded - running boards, D90 rear mudflaps, a =
couple of dents in rear quarters, one busted front diff.

The raffle and silent auction was outstanding with the plumb of a prize =
of a 9000# Superwinch going to Jack McCabe for $450!!

Thanks to our vendors who supported with donations:

LRNA
ROVERS NORTH
DAP
PLANET SPORTSWEAR
ATLANTIC BRITISH PARTS
LAND ROVER METRO WEST
SUPERWINCH
ARB
SUN PERFORMANCE
PUMA
PREMIER POWER WELDER

Special thanks to Barry Enis, the Club's advertising director for almost =
single-handedly lining up the above support. Thanks, Barry!

Also special thanks for the tireless efforts of Denis-Marc Nault for =
logging almost 4000 miles during the summer to lay out trails and =
organize the driving for the event.

And to Chris Browne, who ran a superb phone campaign to collect fees and =
for cooking lunch on Saturday at Jiminy Peak.

And to Cathy Pappas, aka "Shotgun," who, in addition to a full time job =
and graduate school, took a week off prior to the event to do all of the =
ugly, unglamorous stuff associated with running an event. I'd be dead =
without her....

Thanks to all of the people who attended our largest event to date. We =
will have the FALL HERITAGE VI next year, same place, same time =
(Columbus Day weekend). Those interested even this early should MAKE =
RESERVATIONS at the various inns and Privacy Campground NOW to avoid the =
panic many experienced this year looking for lodging!

Cheers
Jim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:35:46 -0700
From: Jeremy J Bartlett <Bartlett@slip.net>
Subject: Re: 109 Questions

Jon Haskell wrote:

>  1.  How can one identify a Salsberry (sp?)axle and is this heavier built
> rearend commonplace on a Series III?

I believe its uncommon.  You can tell the difference from a standard Rover diff by 
looking at the casing.  The salisbury will have an octoganal (or is it hexagonal)
look; the rover diff is circular.  The Salisbury has "spreader" holes in the 
axle casing (a lot like typical US diffs), because you have to force the
casing slightly apart with a special spreader to remove the diff.  The rover
diff has no such hole; it's just a bolt removal and slip out affair. In
my view this is a big advantage of the rover diff for DIY servicing.  They
may pop axles more often but if a Salisbury axle fails good luck.

>       If not standard on the Series III, would you recommend installing?

That's a matter of choice - I wouldn't (see above). I believe you'll also
need a Salisbury prop shaft to match.

cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:14:14 +0100
From: paarch@ix.netcom.com (Paul Archibald)
Subject: Re: frame galv.

Mike,
The place I have been talking to said that their neighboring
sandblasting/beadblasting shop will do all the prep-work needed as well as
drive it down the street to the galvanizing shop to be dipped. I don't have
the quote in front of me, but I think it was around $240.00 for evrything
at both shops. I am planning on  having them do the windshield frame and
misc other parts as well for a little more as long as I like the
flake-pattern they end up with. I guess anything that is not all chunky
will look beter than the silver paint that has worn through evrywhere. If I
remember correctly the place is Pacific galvanizing in Oakland. I will let
y'all know how their work turns out after all is done, probably in December
or January at the soonest at the rate I am going.
Paul
>Dear all,
>        Noticed a few posts about getting old frames galv. Just a note so
>you can check with your galv. company first. The place we use will NOT
>allow anything but white metal *with surface rust is OK* in the tanks. We
>have to bead blast the stuff, make sure it is free of paint etc.
 The
>process they use, eats away all the rust in the first step, then does the
>galv. BUT they tell me that the solution used to remove the rust will not
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>        See ya!
>From: Mike Smith
>East Coast Rover Co.                    207.594.8086

Paul Archibald
Parch@smmff.com
(510)353-1320 or wk. (408)487-1336
'58 88" RHD 2-litre ....uh oh Lucas strikes again :^(
"87 Range-Rover-160,000 miles-"going strong" (Squeak)

------------------------------

From: Franz Parzefall <franz@physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: frame-replacement/steering Relay
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 08:16:19 +0200 (MET DST)

hi Paul,
| My predicament is as follows. The steering relay is apparently rusted into
| the frame? I have been soaking it with liquid-wrench to no avail. Big
| hammer no help either. Will it help to apply heat?

Just some ideas I got when I lately asked a similar question.
-cut it out
-drill a hole and insert some penetrating oil. The relay has about
this shape:
) ( <---drill frame and oil here
| the frame? I have been soaking it with liquid-wrench to no avail. Big
| hammer no help either. Will it help to apply heat?
-take the relay apart and cut the casing twice from the inside. 
This will be much ugly work. 
If you should deside doing this be careful with the spring inside.
But it won't come out until you've got the axle that far out that the first
of these bearings comes in sight. Hold the end of the axle with a BIG
pliers to prevent it from jumping out.

In your case I'd take the grinder, since you have to go at the crossmember
anyway or try the drilling method first.

Franz
---------------------------------------------------------------
Franz Parzefall                franz@physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de
       _______
      [____|\_\==
      [_-__|__|_-]      Brumml, exmil. 1989 Land Rover 110 2.5D
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__..-
                                  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: Dunsfold Elephant Hyde

At 03:14 PM 10/16/96 -0700, you wrote:
>British Northwest claims to have some, but I've heard that they have been
>run through the ringer on this list.  Anyon care to comment on them?

Not in public (having been blasted for saying I wouldn't deal with them
based only on a single personal experience and the opinions of those I trust
who were, of course biased, having had bad experiences with them.)  But
e-mail me privately if you want my opinion.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

From: bb@olivetti.dk (Bent Bohlers)
Subject: RE: mounting a Jack-all and rear seating on a D90
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:06:10 +-100
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Boehme, Doug[SMTP:dboehme@bestinforsg.com] wrote:

My wife and I have been discussing "children" and my feeling is that even   
if you could strap a baby seat into the bench seat, it would be too far   
to reach from the driver's seat if something should happen to the child.   
 Because of this, my wife is looking for something with a back seat that   
she can reach in her quest for a new car.  I tried to convince her that a   
Disco XD was the way to go, but she saw through my little ploy of trying   
to buy lots of Land Rovers. :)

Here in Scandinavia, the guru's Volvo and Saab told us :-), we say that the best protected place
for small kids is in a special chair, mounted rearfacing in the front passengers seat. If You 
run into something, a wall or an elk ( Moose ), the kids head will be pressed against red headrest 
instead of pulling the neck. Also the kid only have to turn the head a little to make eye-contact with 
the driver. Remember that if You have airbags, the one in the passenger side MUST be disabled.
Remember, that You can never replace a kid, so they need the most secure seat in the car.

Then mount a rear seat of any construction You like for Your wife.

Have luck with Your project, kids are the best thing in the world 
(maybe shared with Your LR :-)) ).

Happy Rovering

Bent Boehlers
Denmark.
Boys : 6 and 9 years old.
LR's: 13 and 41 years old.

------ =_NextPart_000_01BBBC12.D33ACD20

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Old LR Dealers 
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 01:49:01 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@netgate.net>

In message <bulk.1995.19961016185119@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you write:
> Mike writes:
> >I have the "Rover Distributers and Dealers - Thirteenth Edition" dated Nov
> >1964 (part # 4315 no less!)
> Any proposals on how to compile and diseminate a dealer list? Any significant
> interest?

	If I (or Dixon for tha matter) can get a copy, I'll put it on the FAQ.

729 College Ave, Santa Clara, CA 95050, USA

Ben
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Smith------------bens@netgate.net-------------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:00:50 -0400
From: hilltop <hilltop@advantage.ca>
Subject: Re: Joe goes East?

Franz Parzefall wrote:
> | Rovers shared Lucas electricals, I checked out to see how close the Massey
> | alternators matched the Series III.  Lo and behold, the first one I looked at
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)]
>       [_-__|__|_-]      Brumml, exmil. 1989 Land Rover 110 2.5D
>  ___.._(0)..._.(0)__..-

------------------------------

From: "Huub Pennings" <pennings@kfih.azr.nl>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 12:34:24 +0100
Subject:       HELP, HELP engine AND/OR gearbox change

Please help me on this one?????

Two Month ago I bought my first Land-Rover.(A '88 SIII pick up 
Diesel 2.25 l five bearing engine)  
It was/is in pretty bad condition. I am now faced with the choice what 
to do with the engine and gearbox. The gearbox was producing an 
alarming howl in third and fourth gear when the engine was pulling. 
After topping of the oil the sound was reduced bij 50% but still 
there. The gear shift mechanism is working all right.

The engine is smoking heavily when idling, after one minute I can't 
even see the house of my next door neighbour wich is only 20 feet 
away........
The amount of smoke is considerably reduced when the revs go up and 
the colour of the fumes changes from grey to black.
When driving on a highway for one hour it starts 
to lose oil from the left hand side of the block possibly from the 
oil level indicator pin hole???? 
When I clamp the head ventilator hose on top of the head and make 
the revs go up the oil comes spurting out this hole....  
There is no evidece of cooland or water in the oil.
The beast is leaking oil from the place where the gearbox attaches to 
the engine.
This week I have had an offer of an ex military spare engine (three 
bearing 2.25l diesel with supposedly low milage like 15 K miles) for 
1500 Dfl wich is aprox. 900 $ and a rebuilt gearbox for 1200 Dfl.wich 
is aprox 700 $ What should I do?????

Overhaul my original engine???,swap it for the ex military
(any problems with the three bearing engine to be expected???)

Overhaul my gearbox, or buy the replacement, 
(drive the original one until it breaks???????)

Does anyone know the price of engine and/or gearbox overhoul in 
Holland or the UK????

Next year the Dutch government will sharpen the emission regulation 
on diesels the same way they have done this in Germany. Are there any 
listmembers with experiance with this procedure and how have their 
vehicles passed this test?????

Looking forward to your respoce,

Happy rovering

Huub Pennings

   

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:02:51 -0400
From: hilltop <hilltop@advantage.ca>
Subject: Re: Inane ramblings

Paul Wakefield - System Manager (SERCO) X492 wrote:
> Hi All
> Re: Dormobiles. No only kidding, i'm not putting my head over _that_ parapet.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 33 lines)]
> due to the prescence of an electrolyte (eg. salt water) but temperature ?
> (Sorry, I am not a closet chemist, but enquiring minds want to know....)

------------------------------

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