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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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------------------------------

From: jimallen@207.174.8.25
Date: 14 Oct 1996 15:11:32 MDT
Subject: Re: 3.9 and 4.0 engines

Martin,

       Have to disagree with some of your comments on Rover V8s, moost
specifically the 4.2L. It was no more prone to problems than any of the
others and, in fact, the problems you mentioned are all common enough to
3.5s and 3.9s.
       All that was done to the 4.2 was the installation of a longer
stroke crank and some clearance grinding in the crankcase. You can take
a 4.2 crank and install it in a 3.9 with the same clearance grinding.
Also, the 4.2 has the best camshaft ever installed in the factory Rover
engines. It's very close to a JE-Motor JE-101 grind - a great cam!
       With regards to the 3.9/4.0 stuff, yes they are the smae
displacement. The changes are significant but not overwhelming, Besides
those you mentioned, the heads have had the bottom row of bolts
eliminated (ala the Buick 300 aluminum heads. Also, there is no dist
drive gear installed on the head because of the distributorless
ignition. Also the front cover and oil pump were changed. The pump now
drives off the crankshaft snout.
       The 4.0 block was changed to carry four-bolt mains but on the
190hp and 225hp Range Rover engines only. The Disco and Defender 4.0
versions are still two bolts but all the bosses are in place and the
extra webbing is still there.
       THe EFI was altered on the 4.0s but it's still the non-adaptable,
stone age setup from beforein some ways on the 4,0s but it's still
essentially the same non-adaptable, stone age setup as before. Besides
the tamper resistant OBDII stuff, it's too numb to adapt to most
external mods to increase power. The biggest bang for buck is still a
re-programed chip!
       Well, there's more but my fingers are beat. To qualify my
statements, I cite my Land Rover factory tech training, many years
wrenching on the breed (including at dealerships until mid-'93) and
current employment with LRNA as a driving instructor. Hope this was on
some interest.

Jim Allen
jimallen@onlinecol.com

------------------------------

From: ChrisF6724@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:32:23 -0400
Subject: Fixing rusted frame?

<< Go West somboby said, if out this way call,  no rust out west>>
Not always true, mine originally came from the east coast which brings me to
my question.   While doing some frame modifications on my build-up, we
noticed that the interior of the frame is starting to rust badly (flaking was
noticable).  Exterior looks dirty/oily and patched here and there, but rust
free.  Does anyone know of a easy way to stop (or at least slow down) the
rust in the interior of the frame.  Because it is in the interior, I am
unable to clean off the existing rust and treat..  The only thing I can think
of is spraying some sort of sealant inside the frame until it starts to run
out of the other end and hope I covered everything...   Recommendations?

Chris Fisher
'73 Land Rover 88 Series III hybrid

------------------------------

From: Franz Parzefall <franz@physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Steering Relay Story
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 08:42:03 +0200 (MET DST)

Hallo Rovers,
first I want to thank all who replied to my previous mail about
steering relay removal.
Peter Hirsch quoted Lindsay Porter:"A well rusted in relay will 
be *a swine* to remove..."
I can just ad: It is a real swine, even if you just want to get
the interiour parts out.

Last Friday at 5pm Benni and I went for it. He had sprayed the relay
with penetrating oil for over a week, but after a few minutes
we were sure, that we wouldn't get the thing out without cutting
into the frame. So we decided to just change the interiour parts.
We carefully removed the 4 bolts at the bottom, always in fear of 
that spring inside loaded with 100lb. After a while we realized
that this thing would by no means come out by itselve and went
for a bigger hammer. Since the axle didn't want to come out at the 
bottom we undid the top coverplate and started to punch it upwards -
in the meantime with a 3kg hammer. When it got stuck, we just punched
it back 1 or 2 mm. After 2.5h we had the beast out. No oil inside, 
just handfull of rust. The axle was deeply rustpitted, even at the
the parts inside the bearings. I can't imagine how this still could 
be turned.
Then we headed off to my parents home just round the corner to get
Benni's spare relay apart - 10 minutes. Now we tryed to recompress
this dammend spring. We didn't have anything like the spring compressors
in the manual, so we fiddled around for an hour or so until I got the 
idea to hold it compressed with just 3 thin codeletts. Works fine
since you still get the axle through. Then we went back to Benni's
109 to clean the relay casing. In the meantime it was 9 pm. We scrached
out all the rust with a screwdriver and then sanded the rest smoove
again. Then we started to push the axle with the compressed spring 
and the two bearings back in again with a bottle jack. The upper 
bearing just went in fine and the hoseclamp around it came off. Then
we cut the cordeletts holding the spring, pulled them out and pushed
upwards until the second bearing was about to slide in. But here the
whole thing got stuck. After a good while I noticed that the spring
had come off the washer. Getting the washer centered again (not too
easy with 45kg load on it) allowed us to go on. At 11.30pm I put in
the last bolt.
Peter K. please tell Thomas that a steering relay should be 90w not 
rust lubed.

Cheers,
Franz
---------------------------------------------------------------
Franz Parzefall                franz@physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de
       _______
      [____|\_\==
      [_-__|__|_-]      Brumml, exmil. 1989 Land Rover 110 2.5D
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__..-
                                  

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 14 Oct 96 14:12:13 MST
Subject: Latest ramblings of a hopeless Rover fanatic.

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist ~ S.R.P. ~ AM/FM - Graphic Records
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
Hello all,

Just thought I'd share my latest (mis)fortunes with you all, since I
know you can all relate...

A few weeks ago I managed to break the short half shaft on my 109, but
no worry, I had a spare used one. Well, it happened again. Once again,
at a light, nice and easy, and *BANG* there she goes. This time at least
I knew what it was and was able to jump out, lock the front hubs, and
proceed before the next light change.

Thought of a name for the beast though... With the recent high
temperatures we've had in Phoenix Arizona lately, near or over 100
degrees, and with the comfort of ride as compared to the Range Rover, I
came up with "Shake-n-bake."

I hope this doesn't wake up the LR demons and cause a flurry of broken
half shafts now....

OH! And on the subject of waving, I got a healthy wave and big smiles
from a blue Range Rover with California plates towing a trailer on the
Superstition freeway (US-60) Today. Anyone on the list???

Dave (need to buy an axle) Brown

What lies behind us and what lies    #=======#         _____l___
before us are tiny matters compared  |__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___
to what lies within us.              | _|  |   |_ |}  \__ - ____ _ _|}
Ralph Waldo Emerson                  "(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)

------------------------------

From: "David Olley at New Concept" <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Chipped Pulley
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:46:42 +0100

> the front pulley on the block is chipped 2/3 the way around. it
hasn't thrown a belt
> yet, but this has me worried.............. i just rebuilt the
engine 

Which side of the pulley? Front or back? If it is the back it sounds
like it may have been fractured - possibly by a removal procedure
during rebuild. You know, the crowbar between pulley and block
procedure. This may be needed on old engines, though I was amazed how
the pulley just slid off my crankshaft during the recent rebuild -
not a trace of corrosion anywhere.
Of course you would not have done this, and the damage is no doubt on
the front of the pulley. In which case it seems like one of those
insoluble mysteries common to our marque.
If the danage is only slight, then it is unlikely that the belt will
come off. It will sustain gradual damage, though, and should be
watched until you can get a new pulley and oil seal. At least it is
one of the easier jobs on the engine!

David Olley
-----------------------------------------------------
New Concept, PO Box 61, Winchester, SO23 8XR, England
Tel: +44-(0)1962-840769  Fax: +44-(0)1962-867367
Web Site: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
-----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 15:45:17 -0400
From: Mike Johnson <johnsonm@borg.com>
Subject: Domo dead?  TEST

this is a test sorry for the bandwidth,  don't think it will matter,  won't
go anyway.

mike
Mike Johnson N7WBO
http://www.borg.com/~johnsonm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 15:40:00 +0800 (SGT)
From: silkris@pacific.net.sg (Silver Kris)
Subject: Hardened Valve Seats

Hello,

Does anyone on the list know if the 6 cylinder 2.6l engine is able to run
on unleaded petrol?

And if hardened valve seats are required, where can I get them?

Thanks in advance
Lawrence
Singapore (where chewing gum is a crime)
LR 109 Ser III 2.6l

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: New CluTCH & carb
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 15:06:17 BST

> I had exactly this problem a couple of months ago. The problem was that the
> spring which is on the end of pivot attached the inner wing has broken, though
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> Hope this helps
> Richard

I've had a look - and can see the spring you refer to. Mine looks okay, but
as you say, its probably not apparent its broken (if it is).
I'll have a look for this ball socket...
Think I might end up replacing this end of the linkages (back to the first
bulkhead attachment).

cheers,

Richard

Tip for the Week (worth half a dip-stick)
----------------------------------------
When finishing painting the seats with a coat of nice bright red Hammerite,
remember to put lid on the tin of paint *firmly*. Then the following
morning, remember to vigorously shake the tin, as per the instructions
(ready for the next coat). Remember, of course, to do this latter manouveur
with the smartest pair of jeans in your possession...
Oh well, another item of Land Rovered clothing (I was wearing Land Rovered
shirts at the time)

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: carb linkage
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 15:00:58 BST

> Richard writes:
> (snip)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> spring is located elsewhere in the linkage, this can be avoided and the carb 
> will last longer.

Thanks for the tip.  I hear ARc rules say that an extra spring has to be
fitted - but similar to how you describe.

What I think I'm going to do, is to replace the linkages at the carb.
end. 

Richard   (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

From: Andy Woodward <azw@aber.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:53:51 +0000
Subject: Re: Coolant leak/hole in my head

>teflon tape or gasket sealant.  I was thinking of using epoxy (JB
>Weld is the trade name), but wonder if it can stand the heat, which
>would be approximatly that of boiling water I suppose.  Any thoughts?

I successfully fixed a leak in my radiator with JB Weld. Last year. 
No leaks yet.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 00:18:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Dormobiles, and the Davis Bros.

On Sun, 13 Oct 1996, East Coast Rover Co. wrote:

>         The real story is for all those out there... If I have Martin
> Walters parts, I'll try to sell them to someone doing a Martin Walters
> restoration first, as they are hard to find. If that fails, then they go to
> other people, 3 door conversion owners, 88 conversions, whatever. What is
> so wrong with that!

	Define a MW restoration...  I could have picked up one in Montreal
	a couple years ago with rotten frame, most of the innards missing
	etc.  Basically a serial number.  I could have taken that SN and
	applied it to my 109 and then added the right bits and had a proper
	MW vehicle?  While I'll admit I don't see tossing chevy 6 cylinders
	into Land Rovers, I see nothing wrong with people trying to build
	3-doormobiles and the like.  My 109 is pretty original, but that
	is because of a general lack of maintenance (Yo!  Mike Rooth, 
	picked up one of those spin on adapters.  Got any idea on how
	difficult it is to wash spin on filters in varsol to reuse?)

	Have the fun of Land Rovers is seeing some of the modifications they 
	have done to them.  There is a limit to how far you want to go for 
	originality.  Should we pillory	people who replace the fine thread nuts 
	and bolts on their LR with stainless (well, maybe in some places for 
	reasons other than originality, ie accelerated oxidation of aluminium 
	unless buffered) and tell them that they are not welcome unless they 
	come back with Parkerised or SHeridised (early forms of corrosion 
	control that didn't work as well as planned, cad plating is better, or 
	galvanised, or stainless...)nuts and bolts?  Leave that for museums.  

	Certainly, they are your parts/vehicles.  If you want to let them rot, 
	that is your decision, but while you sound aggrevied here, I do see
	more than one message from people you seem to have upset in some
	fashion of the other.  You say that thes parts will eventually go to
	people with 3-door conversions and 88's.  To keep people happy,
	when will this be?  If it is never, say so rather than have them
	wait with some false hope.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 02:49:49 -0400
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: BSROA ralley

I had a real good time at the BSROA's ralley this weekend, even though I was
only there for the off-road driving on Saturday. The organizers picked out
some real good trails and overall, the crowd there seemed to be able to
handle them well. The weather was absolutely great and the foliage was
spectacular (You mean we were supposed to look at leaves?? Eh?) 

And the best part (for me) was that I only had to drive about 1 1/2 hours to
get there!

Cheers
Mike Loiodice
166 W. Fulton St.                  1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green     
Gloversville                       1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo
NY  12078  (USA)        7          1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue
                     #:-}>         1964 Triumph Spitfire - BRG

------------------------------

From: ben@bell-labs.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:49:38 -0400
Subject: Re: v8

Marin Faure
  1973 LR Series III 88
  1991 RR Vogue SE

Wrote:
In its original form, the Buick V-8 (which was actually derived from the
aluminum BMW V-8 that powered their 507) 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

WHERE did you get the info about the BMW connection ???

Jan

------------------------------

From: "David Booth" <dbooth@innotts.co.uk>
Subject: No mail??
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 00:21:29 +0100

I checked my mail this evening and found no mail from this group??
Is there a problem in delivery?
Do I have to resubscribe every month to keep reciving mail?
Has nobody got anything to say?
If someone can read this can they please mail me.

David Booth

dbooth@innotts.co.uk

------------------------------

From: lucasrwsaed@argonet.co.uk (Lucas Rists)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 07:41:20
Subject: Re: Re[4]: 

On Fri 11 Oct 96 (08:58:02), dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org wrote:
>Richard breaks the news:

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>I meant the transfer box...thanks anyway:-)
>Dave
Idiot, why ask then?
-- 
 --. --. --. --. : : --- --- .---------------------------------------------.
 |_| |_| | _ | | | | |_   |  |Internet provider for all Acorn RISC machines|
 | | |\  | | | | |\| |    |  '---------------------------------------------'
 | | | \ |_| |_| | | |__  |  lucasrwsaed@argonet.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:56:31 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: The Prince and his minions

OK, gang, here's one for ya' to decipher.  Everyone knows that the 
directional signals can function like a 'poor man's voltmeter', in that the 
speed of the clicks/flashes is a rough indication of how well the charging 
system is working.  Well, what if just *one* is slow?  Left turn - normal 
frequency.  Right turn, real ssloowww, like the alternator wasn't working or 
only putting out 10 volts.  Has The Prince taken up residence in just *half* 
of the vehicle?  Cheers

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *---1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:47:35 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: The Gods....

Just noticed (for you real-timers, that is) that "The Gods Must Be Crazy" is 
going to be on CTV (Comedy Channel) on cable at 8 PM EDT.

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *---1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:47:32 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Camel Trophy stuff

Bad news from my friend at RJR in Winston Salem.  The 50 Camel Trophy hats 
and boxes of other stuff (including pens) *WAS DESTROYED BY CUSTONS.*  
(Yeah, right.) The hats were over the quota for Chinese made baseball caps. 
Just thought you'd like to know.

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *---1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:30:52 -0700
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: silly question!

This is the silliest question I have ever posed at LRO -

where is everyone, what has happended, normally I get about 50 postings
a day from you guy's (and I try to read them all) but today, the LRO net
is as quiet as can be - not a single posting.

What has happened, have you all split the list after all, and left
denmark out? Is there some great LR event which all of world wide have
gone to, without inviting denmark? and anyway where are the danes
(boehlers & hansen to name but a few?)

Never been this quiet since that day 15 years ago when I bought my first
SIII Deisel and I eventually found out how to stop the motor (Pull that
knob said the dealer when I rang to him!! - dipstick award-worthy or
not???)

Yesterday you were all shouting at each other about Doormobiles and
Mr.X, or enquiring about the idiosyncracies of SIIA transfer-boxes, and
then this.

All gone, and I can't even see the dust!

(You haven't all gone and bought a j**p have you?)

Come back! I mat have driven LR for 15 years, but I still haven't found
out why 4WD is called 4x4 (was 16 when I went to school - are there 6
gears I still don't know about?)

looking forward to your return chaps, anyone in need of a tow?

-- 
adrian redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
tel: +45 86 57 22 66  e-mail channel6@post2.tele.dk

1:	Series III 1976 109" D Pick-up
2:	Series III 1979  88" D Hard top (Icelander)
---------------------------------------------------
"Two SIII Land Rovers are more reliable than one!"
---------------------------------------------------
        never trust a smiling j**p salesman!
---------------------------------------------------
    it's been 15 years since I last drove a car
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: daviscar@concentric.net
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 22:16:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Dormobiles!

Hi All 

I would like to say I am sorry that this was pushed out on the list.
 Yes the post about X was partly because of Mr Smiths reply. but not
completely because of it. I will let the list be the judge if Mr Smith has
been wronged or not if so I will say I am sorry if not I will ask for Mr
Smith to do the same. Again I am sorry 

Below is the post sent to Mr Smith and the reply from him. 
BTW the only editing was to remove headers.

Hi Again,
 The parts I am getting does not include the front seats do you know of
 any which are available?
Rob Davis_Chicago

 Thanks for the email. I do have a set of front seats, wardrobes
etc. but IMO these rare items are to go back into real Dormobiles to help
people restore them. Sorry I can't help, but have fun with the parts.

From: Mike Smith
East Coast Rover Co.                    207.594.8086
21 Tolman Road  *Rt. 90*                207.594.8120 fax
Warren, Maine 04864                     ecrover@midcoast.com
    Land Rover Service, Sales, Restoration, and More
        Series Coil Chassis Specialists

Bruce
67 SIIA 88 Patches
59 109 SW (no name yet) (home now.)
Daviscar@concentric.net
       

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:07:22 -0700
From: jouster@rocket.com (John Ousterhout)
Subject: rustproofing a rusted frame

Chris Fisher asks about sealing the inside of his frame:

What I did on my 109's "new" frame, to prevent a reoccurance of terminal 
rust was to pour a 5 gallon bucket of Aluminum Roof Coat (very high metallic 
aluminum content as a "sacrificial anode") inside the frame rails until it 
ran out the other end, rotating the frame to get a good coating. It took 
about 2.5 gallons each side. I also painted the same stuff on the outside 
where it has held up very well. I'd like to oil it as well, now that it's 
been 6 years since the treatment, with the idea of oil seeping into any 
flakes or cracks inside there. 

I couldn't find a galvanizer, and had used the Roof Coat on other vehicles 
with good results.

'64 109 diesel 5-door (Safari-SoGoodi) 465,000 miles on the few remaining 
original parts.
jouster@earth.rocket.com (John Ousterhout)

------------------------------

From: "Alec Diamond" <alec@telmar.co.za>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 15:51:26 +0200
Subject: Subscribe

I would like subscribe to the Land Rover mailing list.  Advice 
please.

Regards
Alec

======================================================
**Telmar South Africa**  3 Floor East Wing 11 Alice Lane
             Sandton Gauteng South Africa          
              Internet: alec@telmar.co.za  
Alec Diamond    *Tel 27 11 883 1337* Fax 27 11 783 0425    
=======================================================

------------------------------

From: daviscar@concentric.net
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:30:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCAM ALERT: 809 Area Code "Emergency" Callbacks are a fraud

HI All 

I got this off one of my other mailing lists I subscribe to. 
I know it is not LR but it may save someone some trouble.
I also have no way to validate if this is true but better safe then sorry.

 Forwarded for your information -- Please read and heed.  This scam was
discussed on talk radio in the Bay area this week, and on the WMAL
 morning drive show last week.

   If you get any messages on your voice mail (or pager) asking you to
 return an "urgent" call to a "toll free" number starting with 809, DON'T
 do it.
 
   It's the latest scam: A group of computer hacks have set up a whole
 bunch of exchanges in the 809 area code (the Caribbean islands, outside
 US law) and created pass-throughs to 900 numbers in New York.  Then they
 set up automatic voice message systems to dial thousands of exchanges
 around the US leaving you an "urgent" message to call back.
 
   The scam works basically like this:
 
   You get home and notice that the message light is blinking on
 your answering machine.  You listen to the message, which has
 several wrinkles, but the best one is the caller asks you to
 call a number beginning with area code 809 to receive
 information about a family member who has been ill.  (They may
 also tell you someone has been arrested, died, you have won a
 wonderful prize, etc.)
 
 In any event, concerned or curious, you make the call.
 Sometimes the phone will be answered by a person who claims to
 speak broken English.  (The idea is to keep you on the line to
 build up charges.)  Or, sometimes you will just get a long
 recorded message.  The bottom lines is, when your phone bill
 comes, you see this incredible charge, oftentimes more than
 $100.00 dollars!
 
 Crooks are using the 809 numbers as "pay-per-calls" and to get
 around the US Regulations and 900 number blocking.  Every time
 you call the number, they get a greatly inflated rebate from
 the foreign phone company.  Since the 809 numbers are in the
 Caribbean, they aren't bound by US 900# regulations that
 require them to warn you of the charge and rate involved, and
 also to provide a time period during which you may terminate
 the call without being charged.
 
 The newest twist to this scam is to page people using the 809
 numbers.  With the new area code changes, people unknowingly
 are returning these calls.  When the bill comes, there are
 HUGE charges for the calls.
 
 My suggestion is that no matter how you get the message, if
 you are asked to call a number with an 809 area code that you
 don't recognize,  DON'T RETURN THE CALL!  It's bad enough that
 the criminal is invading your privacy, don't let them invade
 you wallet as well!
 
 Scams of this type are extremely hard to prosecute and since
 you did actually make the call, neither your local phone
 company or your long distance carrier will want to get
 involved.  They'll tell you that they are simply providing
 the billing for the foreign company.  You end up trying to
 deal (over the phone) with a foreign company that feels they
 have done no wrong.  It can turn into a real nightmare!
 
Bruce
67 SIIA 88 Patches
59 109 SW (no name yet) (home now.)
Daviscar@concentric.net
       

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:55:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "M. ABERCROMBIE" <maa0818@ritvax.isc.rit.edu>
Subject: Swivel pins

Has anyone ever had their swivel pins re-chromed?  If so, where did you have
it done, how much did it cost, and what are the benefits/draw backs from
having this done?  Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks-
Matt Abercrombie

Belfast, Maine
SIIa-SWB

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:50:59 -0700
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Good News...Bad News

>>If it's a boy, I'll definately be getting one!  I have to teach my son 

>I'd say it would be just as important (if not more so) if your progeny was
>a girl 

My neice (2 yrs old) is crazy about my LR.  She likes to sit in the drivers
seat (alone, with the doors closed) and turn the wheel and flip switches.
As soon as I get one back on the road, I'm gonna teach her how to drive it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:31:36 -0400
From: agscsmps@post.kosone.com (s stoneham)
Subject: Re: Latest ramblings of a hopeless Rover fanatic.

>FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
>       Computer Graphics Specialist ~ S.R.P. ~ AM/FM - Graphic Records
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 37 lines)]
>Ralph Waldo Emerson                  "(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)
>Dave,
If you continue to bust and buy axles you might also name it..."Clam bake"...
Steve
1966 2dr.(frameless)
1967 NADA (stripped to frame)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:43:37 -0500
From: Kurt D Musselman <Brewmaster@ids.net>
Subject: McCarthyism, Witch Hunts, etc..

------------------------------

From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Dormobiles and selective parts selling.
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:12:04 +0930 (CST)

Dixon Kenner questions Mike S's policy, namely:
> >         The real story is for all those out there... If I have Martin
> > Walters parts, I'll try to sell them to someone doing a Martin Walters
> > restoration first, as they are hard to find. If that fails, then they go to
> > other people, 3 door conversion owners, 88 conversions, whatever. What is
> > so wrong with that!

> 	Define a MW restoration...
	****Snip, lots of valid argument deleted.****
> 	You say that thes parts will eventually go to
> 	people with 3-door conversions and 88's.  To keep people happy,
> 	when will this be?  If it is never, say so rather than have them
> 	wait with some false hope.

Well Mike S. and I have had our differences in the past :-), but on this 
I'm inclined to agree.  I know squat about Dormobiles, except that i'd 
like a Carawagon...
BUT.  Most of you know that I have a much bastardised Stage 1, and like 
dormobiles many of the parts for a stage 1 are unique to that vehicle.  
Now stage 1's aint as old nor as rare as dormobiles, but you try to get 
genuine stage 1 bits secondhand.  Ha Joke.  most of the secondhand stuff 
goes to clone builders, and original stage 1's end up bastardised like 
mine, coz you simply can not get the bits.  Then you see some IIA 88" 
with stage 1 bits all over it, you know the stuff you've been trying to 
find for years.....

Part of the joy of LR ownership is the ready source of bits for 
customisation, personally I like the idea of a custom 3-doormobile as a 
vehicle, but not if it comes at the expense of the survival of a 
redeemable original. (actually I wouldnt mind a stage 1 dormobile, that 
would be OK wouldnt it :-)

Oh well
-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:41:42 -0700
From: jouster@rocket.com (John Ousterhout)
Subject: Re: The Prince and his minions

Slow turn clicker (AKA the can full of blinks), in one direction. This means 
the resistive load on that circuit is smaller than the faster one. Commonly 
this is either a bad ground, or a burnt out lamp. You didn't convert one 
side of the vehicle to neg ground and not the other, did you? (did you 
remember to switch the engine ground strap to the right side of the block? 
Or is that only when changing hemispheres? ;)

JohnO

>OK, gang, here's one for ya' to decipher.  Everyone knows that the 
>directional signals can function like a 'poor man's voltmeter', in that the 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)]
>      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
>      *---1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 22:12:50 -0400
From: Mike Johnson <johnsonm@borg.com>
Subject: Re: Latest ramblings of a hopeless Rover fanatic.

> <SNIP>
>A few weeks ago I managed to break the short half shaft on my 109, but
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>I knew what it was and was able to jump out, lock the front hubs, and
>proceed before the next light change.

I hear tell of some half shafts in Washington State,  that are guaranteed
not to break.  (of course ya know they break for a reason) They are at
British Northwest.  Not only do I have no association with them they might
hang up on you if they know I sent you ( I canceled an order with them
($600),  they got severely pissed).  But be patient they were too slow for
me (over 10 days to build an order with in stock items).
Mike Johnson  N7WBO

74 SIII 88 (Chester)  175k daily driver
73 SIII 88 (Jezabel)  everyone's gettin a piece

http://www.borg.com/~johnsonm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:12:18 -0600
From: Rover2a <rover2a@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: Fixing rusted frame?

ChrisF6724@aol.com wrote:
> << Go West somboby said, if out this way call,  no rust out west>>

There is no rust out west, I told a littel fib we have some, to be
honest I did not look inside my fram on my 67 IIA 88, but when I cut the
fram apart on my late 73 the inside looked as if it had a fresh coat of
paint, only spots of rust around thruogh holes. 

As to derusting the inside of your's, putting coatings in is ok, but get
some of the newer coatings that inhibit the rust if you do it, and on
coatings I hope this might help with the cost of spray coatings in a can
so high, and most of it is tar, you can save money by going to the
lumber yard and buy roofing tar ( the thiner stuf ) that can be painted
on with a brush or the coating used for sealing concrete walls.
and to end this I have used this on an old truck before I had felt the
joy of owening a rover, had the old truck for 15 years even under the
battery did not rust.

Gar h
SLU UT. 
ROVER2A@XMISSION.COM

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 22:52:02
From: CarDoctor@gnn.com (Robert Davis)
Subject: Crazy Brothers & Black listing!!!

Dear all,
 I think some facts need to be pointed out & then this Dormobile issue can 
rest.
 1) MY brother & I are not crazy or a tag team flaming MR Smith.  
 2) Maybe in the east the phrasing of messages are different then the mid   
    west. Which could account for me feeling MR Smith acted like one thing  
     when he was just misunderstood. (That seem possible)
 3) I don't call people names & I have no idea what a wanker is (don't tell 
    me I don't want to know) 
 4) A number of people knew who was being talked about without names or     
   companies or even sex being given.  So I can't be the first to           
   misunderstanding Mr Smiths quick messages as snobbery.  (that seem
    only rational).  Clearly we have all misunderstood MR Smith.
 5) I did try to handle all of this off the list & I am sorry that it       
    became an issue of discussion.

  MR Smith is right I don't get it(his views) However I have only attempted 
to tell my side after this issue went to the list.  I have done nothing but 
tell the truth.  For me this issue is now closed I hope those on list feels 
the same.
  Again I am sorry for this privite issue taking up the list's time.
   
Rob Davis_Chicago

Failure is not an option
...........Not on my watch

1971 (88)  Treeweaver
1965 (109SW)  OX
1968 (109 three door)  Dad's toy (only the caretaker)
1960 MGA Coupe
1961 MGA Roadster

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:40:40 +1000
From: Richard Clarke <clarker@goldy.agvic.gov.au>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Mike Smith,

You seem entirely reasonable to me (but what do I know I don't own a 
Doormobile) Don't let them upset you the general readers on the list 
I'm sure are not giving them any credence

(the good think about most LROs is their tollerance}
Richard Clarke
Manager Internal Audit & Risk Managent Policy
Department of Natural Resources & Environment
Victoria 
Australia

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 00:43:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: rovah@agate.net (John Cassidy)
Subject: Zenith Carb Woes Continue

     Went to my friend's house and pulled the carb again.  Plugged the
redundant  port as Steve at Britpac suggested.   Charlie at Rovers North
said that he didn't think plugging the port would make a difference and
that sanding the carb mating surfaces would likely  solve the problem.
     Well, I plugged and I sanded, and the damn thing still sounds like
popcorn popping  at idle.  She'll now idle without the choke, but pressing
the accelerator quickly  produces a near stall(and following back-fire).
Fuel is still seen dripping from above at idle,  something I understand
shouldn't happen.  Charlie told me that fuel at idle shouldn't be visable
in the top half of the carb, but that with accleration, you could see the
mist.  Could it be that my slow running jet could be the problem?  This is
getting really frustrating!

Thanks again for the lists' patience and collective help!

John

John Cassidy
Bangor, Maine USA

2 Wheels: Ducati M900, Velocette Thruxton, Moto Morini 350S
4 Wheels: 1995 Discovery, 1987 Range Rover, 1966 Series IIA 88", 1974
Series III 88"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:48:18 -0700
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Misunderstandings

Tomorrow at 12:40 PM 10/15/96, Richard Clarke <clarker@goldy.agvic.gov.au>
will write from Victoria, Australia:
:You seem entirely reasonable to me...  the general readers on the list 
:I'm sure are not giving them any credence
:
:(the good think about most LROs is their tollerance}

 Here, here!  Having been in a few net scuffles myself, I find that most
 LRO's don't care or just have a short term memory.  These types of
 exhanges founded in misunderstandings are peculiar to email, where
 often other pertinent information is missing.  For instance, in person
 you might realize that "Mr." Smith is a BIG burly man that drags his
 knuckles and has buldging muscles from tossing Rover frames all day.
 On the other hand, there are TWO Davis'....  =:0

 Havin' fun in Cookifornia,

 Michael Carradine
 <cs@crl.com>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 02:16:35 -0400
From: agscsmps@post.kosone.com (s stoneham)
Subject: "88" Roofsides (station wagon type) 

Hi all,
I've recently come across some station wagon roof sides while searching for
parts.
These are apparently from an "88" but look similar to the ones on my
NADA,the workshop manual shows
the station wagon slider rail on the top and the "88" on the bottom.
Are these any more rare(valuable) than the standard type of sides?
If so what are they worth to a prospective buyer?
Regards,
Steve
1966 2dr.(frameless)
1967 NADA (stripped to frame)

------------------------------

From: "Mr Ian Stuart" <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:14:23 +0000
Subject: Re: silly question!

Quoting Adrian Redmond, from 14 Oct 96

> where is everyone, what has happended, normally I get about 50 postings a
> day from you guy's (and I try to read them all) but today, the LRO net is
> as quiet as can be - not a single posting.
Well, I'm still here...

> I still haven't found
> out why 4WD is called 4x4
4 powered wheels on a vehicle with 4 wheels.

Similar to:
4x6
6x6
8x8

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

However strong my opinions are, they are mine and no-one elses.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:06:09 +0200
From: bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton)
Subject: HELP !!!

A sad story:

A friend of mine has a faulty diesel injector pump so he removed it to send
it in to be fixed.

While in the oil seal shop buying seals (3.5 minutes) the pick-up he was
driving (belonging to his friend) was stolen and his pump was in it ! 

So if there is ANYBODY preferably in Southern Africa but else where too !
who has an injector pump for a 2.5 L Turbo Diesel (DPS PUMP) (NOT TDI) in
any condition please mail me asap or phone +27 (0)83 290 2085 or better
still send me message from http://www.mtn.co.za/sms.html and enter my number
(083) 290 2085

Thanks 
Brian Cotton
Pretoria, South Africa
Rob Symons, how about you ?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 00:39:42 -0700
From: Arnold Yoon <ahyoon@students.wisc.edu>
Subject: Dormobile Parts and the Bavis Bros

Mike:

I don't know about everyone else here...but you have my support all the
way....Hmmm...we should take the Rovers away from the Davis Bros! (I know
that a Dormobile in my parking lot would be nice!)  In any event, have
faith in knowing that you are doing the right thing!

Land Rover 4 Ever!
1995 Land Rover Discovery
Four Wheel Drive Exemplified

Arnold Yoon
University of Wisconsin - Madison
E-Mail: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu
Seconday E-Mail: ahyoon@doit.wisc.edu
Voice: (608) 238-9672
Pager: (608) 657-2869
Cellular: (608) 576-6724

------------------------------

From: Andy Woodward <azw@aber.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:56:24 +0000
Subject: Re: Time to WAXOYL the frame

>Allan;  Thanks for the info...what should  thin it with..mineral
>spirits, laquer thinner, or something else?

Recommended is white spirit. But I use deisel. Seems to make it nice 
and flowy, but also when the ligther fractions evaporate, they leave 
enough to keep the Waxoyl from setting over a period of years.

------------------------------

From: lucasrwsaed@argonet.co.uk (Lucas Rists)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 07:53:58
Subject: Re: Hardened Valve Seats

On Mon 14 Oct 96 (15:40:00 +0800), silkris@pacific.net.sg wrote:
>Hello,

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)]
>Singapore (where chewing gum is a crime)
>LR 109 Ser III 2.6l
The usual reply to this in Land Rover Owner magazine is that hardened seats
are not available. Some say the engine can be run on unleaded anyway, but I 
checked with Land Rover as was told in no uncertain terms that this was not
advisable. 

I tried asking around when I had my 2.6 to see if there were seats available
from another source, but did not really get anywhere. 

Richard
-- 
 --. --. --. --. : : --- --- .---------------------------------------------.
 |_| |_| | _ | | | | |_   |  |Internet provider for all Acorn RISC machines|
 | | |\  | | | | |\| |    |  '---------------------------------------------'
 | | | \ |_| |_| | | |__  |  lucasrwsaed@argonet.co.uk

------------------------------

From: lucasrwsaed@argonet.co.uk (Lucas Rists)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 07:57:59
Subject: Re: The Prince and his minions

On Mon 14 Oct 96 (17:56:31), rover@pinn.net wrote:
>OK, gang, here's one for ya' to decipher.  Everyone knows that the 
>directional signals can function like a 'poor man's voltmeter', in that
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>alternator wasn't working or  only putting out 10 volts.  Has The
>Prince taken up residence in just *half*  of the vehicle?  Cheers

Sounds like a bad earth, or quite likekly the light unit is corroded
due to ingress of water, thus causing a poor circuit.

Richard
-- 
 --. --. --. --. : : --- --- .---------------------------------------------.
 |_| |_| | _ | | | | |_   |  |Internet provider for all Acorn RISC machines|
 | | |\  | | | | |\| |    |  '---------------------------------------------'
 | | | \ |_| |_| | | |__  |  lucasrwsaed@argonet.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:02:53 -0700
From: Heather Dixon <hldixon@top.monad.net>
Subject: Re: Camel Trophy stuff

Alexander P. Grice wrote:

> The 50 Camel Trophy hats
> and boxes of other stuff (including pens) *WAS DESTROYED BY CUSTONS.*
> (Yeah, right.) The hats were over the quota for Chinese made baseball caps.
> Just thought you'd like to know.

Guess those guys at customs have no idea the importance of any type of 
Land Rover 'goodies' eh?

Heather

------------------------------

From: "MNR. GRS SYMONDSON" <9553908@NARGA.sun.ac.za>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:31:00 GMT+0200
Subject: Series One Club in the Cape

Hi i was just sorting out all my mail from way back when and saw a 
familiar address!
A friend of mine, Graeme Smith, and I are keen on getting a Series 
one list of owners and cars going in to access parts easier and 
generally exchange hints, tips and  the rest of it on Series One and 
maybe even get a newsletter going of activities and things for 
Landys. If you're interested or know of anybody who's keen then 
please give me a shout at this address 
Thanks
Guy Symondson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:39:11 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Camel Trophy stuff

>Alexander P. Grice wrote:
>> The 50 Camel Trophy hats
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>> (Yeah, right.) The hats were over the quota for Chinese made baseball caps.
>> Just thought you'd like to know.
Yeah,well,apart from the ones they kept for themselves,no doubt......
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 46 lines 1981 [forwarded 181 whitespace 430]
 Output: lines 1397 [content 884  forwarded 82 (cut  99) whitespace 380]

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