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Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 12:21:50 +0200
From: Defender@belgonet.be (Luc Rokegem)
Subject: re: Series III Brakes

I had the same problem with my 110 and replacing the master cilynder
didn't help, replacing the drums either, So I started to live with it
and adjusted the brakes regulary.  After some time I pulled the drums off
and noticed that the shoes where not dragging even.  The reason for this
could be the shoes-adjusters or maybe there is a difference between the
leading and trailling shoes.  What will help is replacing the brake cilynders
by smaller ones.  Originally one my 110 there where smaller ones fitted and
till then I had never problems, but a mechanic had told me that I needed
the bigger ones and from then the problems started.   Eventually I gave up
and replaced the hole thing with diskbrakes witch work fine.  No more
adjusting and instant and progressive breaking.  This was the best
conversion I ever did.

regards,
 

            _______________    Luc Rokegem
           //   |          |   St-Pauwels (Belgie)
    ______//_ _ |          |#  defender@belgonet.be
    |   __            __   |#  http://www.belgonet.be/~bn000165/index.html
    |__/  \__________/  \__|  
       \__/          \__/      lawyers and Land-Rovers must be well greased

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 07:31:08 -0400
From: Michel Bertrand <mbertran@InterLinx.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: British Invasion in VT

At 22:42 96-09-04 -0500, you wrote:

>Cost is $35 and as I was told the goodys they give you is worth at least that.

35$!!

What kind of goodies do you get for 35$?

Is it reallly worth it. Must be the most expensive show in North America.
And after that, you have to pay a car-wash to remove all the drool left on
the wings and such by MG and Triumph owners.

Do they have student rates? Hey, I'm not that rich.... 

Michel
Michel Bertrand
						______
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada, 		       /    __
					      /        \
1963 109 PU (Rudolph)	   		     | Lucas    |
1968 109 SW (in the works)		     |  Inside  |
1973 88 SW (21st century project)	      \        /
					       \______/

mbertran@interlinx.qc.ca <<---- Note new address!

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Brakes-Relief Valve
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 08:01:00 DST

Ben
Your problem sounds like it may be related to the setting of the pedal stop 
bolt. If the pedal doesn't return far enough the small check valve at the 
end of the master cylinder is held closed and fliud can't return to the 
reservior.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 07:55:43 -0400
From: source@trinidad.net (Peter Quentrall-Thomas)
Subject: Wading and Winching

Three fantastic events have recently happened in my life.
A)-I have taken Hercules, my 1968 IIA which I have owned from new, off
roading in the newly formed Trinidad & Tobago Off Road Club.
B)-I have dicovered the InterNet and e-mail
C)-I have dicovered the LR Digest.

However I need HELP.

If I have sent this message to the wrong place or the answers are easily
found somewhere else my appoligies in advance and my thanks for telling me
how to get there.

QUESTIONS:-

A)-Every time I cross a stream where the water covers the wheels the 4 cyl.
petrol engine promptly shuts off without even a splutter. The moment the
Suzuki jeeps which I travel with, and who cross the rivers as if they were
just little puddles, pull me out ( imagine the embarrassment), the engine
starts first touch of the ignition. I have covered the distibuter and leads
with a large plastic container to stop the mechanical fan from drowing the
iginition (which does not go under water), all to no avail. Is the problem
the dynamo (original) which is on the lower left hand side? Does this
somehow short out the electics?

As a result of shutting down in the middle of a stream the gearbox always
fills with water even though I have a plug in the bellhousing drain hole.
How can I prevent this? Where can I find a comprehensive source of advice
on preparing a IIA for wading?

B)-Ninty percent of the time my Hercules is used to pull other brands of
vehicles when they are stuck. Te other 10% is spent with usually two of
them trying to pull Hercules out. The day will come when Hercules will
really get stuck so I need to think about a winch. WARN USA have quoted me
some $600US for a model 9000 + $120US for an accessory kit FOB Miami. This
seems like a lot of money to me. Is there a cheaper model/brand/approach to
procuring a winch? I see a brand called "SuperWinch" in LRO. Is it any
good? Which model is best?

C)-Where can I find a book/manual/tips etc on preparing a Series IIA for
serious off roading in the tropics i.e. through thick mud in the rain
forests, across fairly fast moving streams, up slippery mountain sides.

D)-Where can I find info and costs on "Limited Slip", "Air Lockers" or
"Locking Diffs" for a IIA?

A million thanks for any help or advice offered. If you are ever in
Trinidad (Next to Grenada in the Caribbean) and you want to go off road
call me on 809-622-7642 (4 lines)

Peter

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 07:56:21 -0400
From: source@trinidad.net (Peter Quentrall-Thomas)
Subject: Wader Kit

Patrick Townsend said he saw a '55 Series 1..... Extensively rebuilt with
wader kit.

What is a Wader Kit?
Who sells them for Series IIA?
Price, contact, fax # etc?

Regards Peter The Wolf

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: British Car Show-Oakville Ontario Sept 15th
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 08:07:00 DST

Toronto Truimph Club's British Car Day takes place at Bronte Creek 
Provincial Park, Oakville, Ontario (Exit 109 from QEW) September 15. Gates 
open at 10am for additional details call the TTC info line 416 410 4TTC. 
Lots of Land Rovers including 101's and multitudes of other British 
vehicles.

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Re Bye Bye VW's
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 08:14:00 DST

We said bye bye to our VW bus when son Alex (ex LR owner too) left for the 
west. Alex is now in BC at Salt Spring Island near Victoria and is in the 
market for another Land Rover. (Then we can get the camper back) He's not 
connected yet but any LROs in the area, he'd like to get in touch and I can 
forward phone numbers.
 RegardsTrevor - SIIA SWB SW 1962 and 1974 VW Westfalia ($100 plus $500 in 
parts and paint)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 08:10:30 -0400
From: Stephen Brown <sbrown@trek.ned.ara.com>
Subject: Corrosion Protection, how?

I just moved from arid New Mexico to Vermont with my 33+ year old 88 IIa.
There is only minor surface rust on the frame, mostly under the
battery and around the spring bushes (where the spring shop heated it
up to replace the springs a few years back). The Bulkhead/firewall is
rust free as well. I want to keep it that way, but winter's coming up
and this is my daily commuting vehicle so I cant park it. Does anyone have
suggestions on the best way to go about preventing corrosion. I've
been told to sandblast rust, paint then undercoat -- also the folklore
around here is to have the thing oiled or greased completely
underneath. Any help will be appreciated.

				Steve Brown

-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Stephen Brown
Applied Research Associates
RR 1 Box 120A, Waterman Road
South Royalton, Vermont 05068

(802) 763-8348 voice
(802) 763-8283 fax

sbrown@ned.ara.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: QROVER80@aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 08:32:30 -0400
Subject: Brake Booster Question

Dear Mr. Newman  I had a NADA that had exactly the problem you describe. The
problem with the brakes on your wagon have nothing to do with the booster.
Someone has adjusted the master cylinder pushrod incorrectly. Probably in an
effort to improve the brakes when they were in poor condition. You should go
through the entire system and adjust the brakes on all four wheels and the
master.  There needs to be about an inch of "free play" at the brake pedal.
It is possible that once everything is adjusted correctly the brakes will
need to be bled to regain a firm pedal.
Rgds Quintin Aspin

------------------------------

From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 08:07:06 -0500
Subject: Re:  88 shocks

tom,

I bought my ranchos from 4 wheel drive wholesalers in california. they 
advertise in the monster truck and 4 wheel drive mags. Usually they run
a 4/$99 deal on RS5000s, which is how I got mine. They new what i was 
talking about when I said LR Ser. IIa 88, and just to be sure I made them
read me back the part numbers they were sending me.

They seemed to be returns or old stock - one of my boxes had definatly been
opened before, but the shock itself was in good shape and didn't appear to
have ever been used or mounted. There was some discussion once about a lot
of counterfiet ranchos being on the market, but none were found from these
guys and they matched the identification people said to look for on 
genuine ranchos (this was on the 4x4 list, maybe?).

Anyhow, I'm happy with them. I just need new front springs...

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 15:45:36 -0700
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Brake servo warning lamp

Can anyobody help with this one?

My two series IIIs (and all the other series II's I have seen here in
Denmark) have a rectangular black switch on the centre panel of the
dash. The switch includes a red lamp, and is momentary in cation. This
is connected to a pressure switch in the brake vacuum servo, and if
vacuum fails/falls the lamp lights up. The switch can be pressed
(labelled "TEST") to check the lamp (I don't know whether it tests the
entire circuit, or just the lamp). When you trun on the ignition, the
lamp lights, but after a few seconds of tickover it should (used to) go
out). The lamp comes on periodically after heavy braking, and goes out
soon after.

My 88" is retrofitted with a vacuum pump, thus eliminating the
traditional series III problem of leaky servo and pipes and missing
vaccum. There is plenty of vacuum.

Recently my lamp started to light all the time, even though there is
plenty of vacuum effect and apparantly good braking.

The lamp/test switch circuit is not included in the Haynes manual, or
the LR Series III Danish workshop manual. There is a white wire (+12v?)
and a black and white wire. Where do they go? There are two wires to the
switch on the servo? are these the same two wires? Where is the power
feed for this circuit?

Can anyone help (sounds like a problem for Dixon kenner?)

-- 
adrian redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
tel: +45 86 57 22 66  e-mail channel6@post2.tele.dk

1:	Series III 1976 109" D Pick-up
2:	Series III 1979  88" D Hard top (Icelander)
---------------------------------------------------
"Two SIII Land Rovers are more reliable than one!"
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 10:24:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jonathan Morris Coulter <jcoulter@warren-wilson.edu>
Subject: Re: Transfer case problems

 Pardon the ignorance, but this is not related to transfer case 
problems.  What this is about trying to stop recieving this mail from 
this rover group.  I am presently enrolled at a college in North 
Carolina and I will be away from here for a while.  I don't want to 
clog up the E-mail system here so Majordomo, please disconnect me from 
this service.  Thank you.

	jonathan coulter

	jcoulter@warren-wilson.edu

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <WI.Center.for.Dairy.Research@calshp.cals.wisc.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 09:38:56 -6
Subject: Re: Brake servo warning lamp

snip
> Recently my lamp started to light all the time, even though there is
> plenty of vacuum effect and apparantly good braking.

snip
The circut also includes a switch at a brake failure valve that is 
in-line between the front and rear circuts. If one or the other circuts 
has a leak a shuttle valve will move in the direction of that circut to stop 
the loss of brake fluid. The movement of this valve activates a switch 
that lights the dash lamp. Because of this valve, you should turn on 
the ignition switch while bleeding the system (disconnect the coil to 
prevent it overheating). If the lamp lights during the bleed process 
you should bleed some fluid out of the other circut until the lamp 
goes out. I know you said yours comes on when you turn on the 
ignition, but this should not be the case. You may have a faulty 
switch somewhere. Try disconnecting the wires at each switch, one at a 
time to see if the lamp goes out.
I'm not sure, but logic tells me that you would have to disconnect 
the vacum switch while bleeding the brakes to keep it from energizing 
the lamp. Maybe someone else has the definitive answer on that.

There is another switch that will be activated if your pedal 
travel becomes to great. It's mounted on the box the MC 
mounts in.

And finally, there is the vacum activated switch you know about. This 
will of course tell if your booster has a leak. One way to test your 
booster is to, with the engine shut off, pump the brakes several 
times to get rid of any residual vacum, then start the engine while 
holding the brake pedal down. You should feel the pedal move to the 
floor as vacum is created in the booster.
Hopefully, with the other info on the circut I've provided, you will 
have an idea of places to look.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <WI.Center.for.Dairy.Research@calshp.cals.wisc.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 09:41:52 -6
Subject: Re:  88 (Rancho) shocks

> I bought my ranchos from 4 wheel drive wholesalers in california. they 
snip
Thanks. I thought they might be a source. They have a web site, but 
the damn Internet was so slow yesterday, I gave up trying to connect.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 07:59:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Clinton D. Coates)
Subject: Chatter

Does anyone on the net drive a green? military looking 109 with a full
soft top around Vancouver?  I have passed one twice in the evening
on number 1 going east (the 109).

Just curious.

Clinton

--
 __x___x_  /    Clinton D. Coates  uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca    
|__|__|__\/__   
|     |   |_ |  *Emerson* 61 lwb pickup.....mostly runs
  (_)"""""(_)"  *If it doesn't leak, its not a Land Rover*

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 08:00:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Clinton D. Coates)
Subject: UK Computer Prices

Sorry about the non-rover content.  My
sister in-law is going to Edinburgh U
this fall and was wondering about the
price of computers over in the UK,
specifically lap tops.  If any UK
list members could email me back-channel
on prices I would really 
appreciate it.

TIA Clinton

--
 __x___x_  /    Clinton D. Coates  uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca    
|__|__|__\/__   
|     |   |_ |  *Emerson* 61 lwb pickup.....mostly runs
  (_)"""""(_)"  *If it doesn't leak, its not a Land Rover*

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 08:00:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Clinton D. Coates)
Subject: SI Questions

Two questions.  Will galvanizing
a SI 80" frame seriously reduce
its value as a collecter item or 
its ability to be given BC collector
plates?

And, can the rear axles be easily
converted to full floating?

Clinton

--
 __x___x_  /    Clinton D. Coates  uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca    
|__|__|__\/__   
|     |   |_ |  *Emerson* 61 lwb pickup.....mostly runs
  (_)"""""(_)"  *If it doesn't leak, its not a Land Rover*

------------------------------

From: daviscar@concentric.net
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:05:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: the big adventure

Hi All

Well some of you know I was looking for a 109. I found it! This last week I
went to NY State with the car doctor to pick up a 1959 109 sw. We went with
the Idea of fixing the brackes and driving it back to IL. As we were told it
was running but had no brakes. The po was of some help but seeing as he is
71 years old and ill he could not help much. Well the LR ran sort of  do to
the willies carb it runs uneven poppinng back and so on. It seems the LR had
not been run for two years or more. The po said he had installed a new
master cyl. about a year ago what he did not tell us was he had not
reconceted the brake lines. He keep telling us the was no reason to "rebuild
the hubs" or "look at the brake shoes" that everything was fine there. Wrong
the brake cylinders was seezed in front on one side. The back was not that
much better. We found or first real problem when we tried to replace the
rear cylinders the new ones did not fit in the backing plate as it was the
old style three bolt type not the two bolt type. So after a few phone calles
to AB and Dap we found out that there was someone about 8 miles away that
might be of some help. We gave him a call  and he had two backing plates we
bought them. (thanks Erine) I know that the car doctor has already posted
some of the other problems we had with the brakes. The lr has solid doors By
this I mean you can't remove the door tops. I under stand that this was a
cold weather option is this true?
The LR came with some pair parts like a galvenized frame, a spair trans,
most of the lights, new brake shoes front and rear, and all the wheel
cylinders. But even with all of the help and spairs we just could not make
it run well enuff to drive back home safely. So I rented a ryder truck annd
tow dolly and for the first time for any distances I towed the LR home. I
had to Rob (car doctor) was towing the frame. I do have a question the frame
has two holes in the cross member the rear drive shaft passes though one of
them I know and the pto shaft is to go in the bend of it but what is the
other hole for? Just one more thing the LR did come from the East coast so I
now know how the mid west got some of its Rovers. It cam from Saugerties NY.
For all of you who want to know how I found it. It was advertized in  AB's
ads. I will have the LR at the Brittish car show on the 8th in Des plaines.
If any one who is local whats to see it.

Bruce
67 SIIA 88 Patches
59 109 SW (no name yet) (home now.)
Daviscar@concentric.net
       

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 16:25:39 +0100
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Transmission noise

Dave B. says:

> Removing the entire mechanism and placing all the parts in an old 
> bucket, and then bolting the drum back on was the perfect cure.

I presume you now have to use your winching anchor to hold the beast on 
a hill.

And what did you do with the bucketful of bits?
{:-/

-- 
David Olley
...............................................................
New Concept
PO Box 61, Winchester, SO23 0HA, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
...............................................................

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 16:25:47 +0100
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Air Tools

Ned Heite is right in saying that it would be impractical to use bottled 
compressed air for field use. Take a look at a race pit and see the size 
of bottle that they use for their air wrench!
But a high output compressor can be fitted to the PTO of a Landy. Many 
were fitted that way in the UK. The air reservoir was built under the 
rear floor. Various utilities used them and examples can still be found 
here with the original installations.

-- 
David Olley
...............................................................
New Concept
PO Box 61, Winchester, SO23 0HA, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
...............................................................

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 18:08:23 -0700
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Re: Brake servo warning lamp

Tom Rowe wrote:

> The circut also includes a switch at a brake failure valve that is
> in-line between the front and rear circuts. If one or the other circuts
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 37 lines)]
>  Four wheel drive allows you to get
>  stuck in places even more inaccessible.

Thanks Tom!

I've just visited the Land Rover mechanic - apparantly the circuit in
question is not included in either the Danish or English LR manuals, or
even the haynes. If anyone has a circuit diagram (with wiring colours?)
I'd be happy for a copy (fax +45 86 57 22 66).

Changing the switch didn't help (didn't expect it to, but worth a try)
but removing the vacuum reservoir from the circuit did! Without the
reservoir in circuit the vacuum level rose (dropped?) and the brakes
work fine, AND THE LIGHT GOES OUT!.

Now I have got to find the leak - probably the hose!

Thanks for the help! 
-- 
adrian redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
tel: +45 86 57 22 66  e-mail channel6@post2.tele.dk

1:	Series III 1976 109" D Pick-up
2:	Series III 1979  88" D Hard top (Icelander)
---------------------------------------------------
"Two SIII Land Rovers are more reliable than one!" (sometimes)
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 12:19:55 -0400
From: Andrew Steele <ad158@dayton.wright.edu>
Subject: Re: towing

I towed a series 88 with my 1987 Range Rover.  I used the u-haul autotranspost
trailer.  It has tandem axles and surge brakes.  I had to reload the rover 3
times (forwards, rearwards, forwards) trying to get the weight balance
correct.  The trailer had a hand crank winch (but it's still hard work).  I
was never able to get the wight balanced on the trailer with the wheels
sitting in the load area on the trailer.  I ended up disregarding the front
wheel tie downs and repositioning the 88 in the center of the trailer using my
own tie down straps.  Not fun.  It was still a very heavy tow with the weight
too heavy on the back of the Range Rover.  Until I shifted the 88 backwards on
the trailer, any stop (even from less than 10 mph at stop signs) caused the
front Range rRover wheels to lock and slide.

If I ever tow it again, it will be on a tow dolly with only the front wheels
loaded.  (Never used one; but it would have to work better.)

hope this helps.

(PS,  I went slowish and eventually got home (600+ miles).

andrew
dayton Oh

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <WI.Center.for.Dairy.Research@calshp.cals.wisc.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:39:43 -6
Subject: Re: Brake servo warning lamp

snip
> but removing the vacuum reservoir from the circuit did! Without the
> reservoir in circuit the vacuum level rose (dropped?) and the brakes
> work fine, AND THE LIGHT GOES OUT!.
snip
I suspected it was a vac leak given the symptoms.
I'll see if any of my manuals have a wiring diagram.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 12:54:53 -0400
Subject: Re: 88 (Rancho) shocks

could someone please post the Rancho Part numbers front & rear, regular and
heavy duty if available, then Dixon can add the new info to the FAQ.
Steve

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 21:19:13 +0200
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Rear brake troubles

Dear all, I don't know about later vehicles, but on Series I's the rear 
brake cylinders are supposed to move rather freely on the anchor plate, i. e 
the three studs have special self-locking nuts and you are *not* supposed to 
tighten them against the anchor plate. I have been told that if you do 
tighten them you might get very uneven pedal, apparently because of some 
adjustment of the shoes in relation to the wheels. You might check your 
workshop manuals.
Regards
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 21:19:25 +0200
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Air tools

Ned Heite wrote:
:Could one
:set up an air-powered field kit on a Land Rover? Air-driven chain saws?
:Air-driven winches? Air-driven trash pumps? PTO-driven compressors? 12v
:compressors? I know you can store compressed air for field use, but it has
:a finite life. Any experiences?

There was a PTO-driven compressor for the Series One. There is a club member 
who demonstrates all sorts of additions to his Series One 80" at shows - 
mowers, power saw bench, the compressor, and a small grain mill if I 
remember right.

Another member has a rear PTO mounted milking machine on his 88.
No idea where you could get any of these, but the idea is sound.
Regards
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 21:21:20 -0700
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Series III leaf-springs

I am considering replacing the leaf-springs on bot my 88" and 109", as
they are all of good age and the cars are now a little spongy, and sit
at their own peculiar angles when parked level.

I am tired of rusty springs, I know they work OK, but they look
terrible, especially when the rest of the undercarriage is completly
rustfree gloss black.

Can one buy Galvanised springs? (In europe? fed-ex charges maybe a
little high considering the weight!)) Does anyone have any experience of
this matter. Are there better alternatives to LR originals - I seek long
working life, good suspension and handling, and a clean, new appearance.
Does this exist?

-- 
adrian redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
tel: +45 86 57 22 66  e-mail channel6@post2.tele.dk

1:	Series III 1976 109" D Pick-up
2:	Series III 1979  88" D Hard top (Icelander)
---------------------------------------------------
"Two SIII Land Rovers are more reliable than one!"
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 17:33:23 -0500
From: "John P. Casteel" <jcasteel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Series Database

OK, after labor day the stream of entries for the database has dwindled. 
So far, about 29 people have sent me information about their vehicles 
and I know that there are many more of you out there!!!

So, I am soliciting your information again,  the format needed is as 
follows:

VIN,year,type,size,name,color,current location,country,shape,original 
dealer,e-mail,lro-net,notes

meaning:
VIN - chassis number/vehicle identification number
year - year as registered
type - I, II, IIa, III
size - 86,88,109,107 etc
name - what have you named your vehicle or none
color - the current color of vehicle
current location - ie Colorado
country - ie  USA, UK, Germany
shape -   -  choose one of the following
                                  dd - daily driver
                                  dr - drivable
                                  ur - under restoration
                                  pc - parts car
                                  dy - destroyed
original dealer - the original dealer if known
e-mail - the owners e-mail address or "none"
lro-net  - if this car is owned by a subsriber to lro-net then put 
"lro-net" here otherwise use "unk" for
        unknown.
notes -  anything you'd like noted seperated by semi-colon

Examples:
26204112B,1965,IIa,88,Lurch,Light Green,Colorado,USA,dd,private party 
import,unk,lro-net,RHD Dormobile
owned since 1976

26406309H,1970,IIa,109,White 
Rover,Tan,Arizona,USA,dd,unk,unk,lro-net,LHD; Safari top;5 door;deluxe
bonnet;tire mount on bonnet and r-door;rear wiper added;overdrive;11 
pass wagon;rear heater;deluze
interior;20 gal SS tank;everything works

24442498G,1971,IIa,88,none,Red,Arizona,USA,dr,Arizona,unk,lro-net,trail 
truck;military 1 ton shacles;white
spoke wheels;headlights in the breakfast;toyota land cruiser rear 
folding seats;rancho5000 shocks;future
engine transplant

------------------------------

From: PDoncaster@aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:45:05 -0400
Subject: Busted Diff. in N.C....Wait'n for parts 

 I left the Big Easy on Monday in my IIa 88. Final destination is Maine.
Stopped in Uniontown, Alabama the first night to see an old college
professor, then on to Atlanta on Tuesday.

I was pulling away from a stop light in Atlanta on Wednesday and  POP!....
spin.....klunk...grind...NO foreward momentum.  Half Shaft!  No Problem, got
an extra set with me.   20 MINUTES TOPS! 

Got out, locked the hubs, eased down the yellow knob, and pulled into a
parking lot. It happened to be sloped, so I parked purpendicular to the
slope, and went to work on the uphill rear hub. Pulled out the half
shaft....It was good! Damn. Turned the truck around and pulled out the other
half shaft. It was good TOO! Checked the drive shaft, yeah, it's
turning....must be the Diff. 

By this time I'm thinking " I relly dont want to wait around for surface mail
to get a new diff"  And the guys eating lunch in a moving van near by were
thinking "What the hell is that guy doing"  Well, I did what any other LRO
would do, I disconnected the rear prop shaft, took out both half shafts, and
drove (waving to the guys in the truck) on the front wheels to a quiet (it
was about noon) bar, and called RN....

"Aren't the front an rear diff's the same??   Can I swap them???  Yes, cool,
send me a couple of diff gaskets and anything else I'll need.........Hey, is
it ok to drive on the front wheels with the rear disconnected?  Cool, send
the parts to North Carolina."

I drove to a friend's house in Greeensboro, NC. (where I am now) No problems,
even got the same top speed. 100km/hr.  The parts should be here tomorow, so
I can make the swap. (just in time for the hurricane to hit) 

 I cant wait to pull the diff to see what's awry. 

I have tools, and soon, parts, but could use any advice y'all can offer......
  (this is FUN, right?)

Peter Doncaster
'64 IIa 88" (front wheel drive)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 22:02:30 -0400
From: Ernie Young <ernyoung@earthlink.net>
Subject: Missing holes in head

On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, Terje Krogdahl wrote:

> Speaking of fibre gaskets missing some holes, my engine has a small
> overheating problem after my rebuild... is there a way to figure out
> wether I have a gasket with missing holes? No? Thought so.

I believe they have been printing the photos of missing holes on the
sides of oil cans for some time now...

------------------------------

From: Solihull@aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 21:49:18 -0400
Subject: Re: 88 shocks reply

I copies this from the list about a year ago, Maybe this will help:

These are the RS5000's
     Front          Rear
88   5163      7169(this is the rs7000)
109  5164      NONE
109(1ton) 5164      5157
90   5159      5157

For the steering stablizer complete kit  97435

Cheers!!
John (packrat, with cluttered hard drive to prove it!) Dillingham

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:25:22 -0700
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Wading and Winching

At  7:55 AM 9/5/96 -0400, Peter Quentrall-Thomas wrote:

>QUESTIONS:-
;
>A)-Every time I cross a stream where the water covers the wheels the 4 cyl.
>petrol engine promptly shuts off without even a splutter. The moment the
>Suzuki jeeps which I travel with, and who cross the rivers as if they were
;just little puddles, pull me out ( imagine the embarrassment), the engine
>starts first touch of the ignition. I have covered the distibuter and leads
;with a large plastic container to stop the mechanical fan from drowing the
>iginition (which does not go under water), all to no avail. Is the problem
;the dynamo (original) which is on the lower left hand side? Does this
>somehow short out the electics?
;
This seems puzzling, If your electrics got wet, they normally have to dry
before they start working again.  I think you need to experiment.  Get a
friend in a trusty rice burner and go find a puddle.  When your engine
dies, pop the bonnet and look to see what's wet and whats underwater before
getting a pull out.

You are worried about th generator.  Disconnect the wires at the generator
and tape them off.  Drive through a puddle & see if the engine stops.

Do a close examination of your wiring and clean connections while you are at it.

If you are wading in deep water, you might want to put a muff in front of
the radiator to keep water off the fan.  You should have both shrouds
behind the radiator.  The second one acts as a splash guard.  I have bent
the wide lip section in front of the distributer down to further protect
the distributer.

The more expensive genuine LR spark plug leads are the best that I have
seen for protecting electrics against moisture.

experiment with a hose if you need too.

>As a result of shutting down in the middle of a stream the gearbox always
>fills with water even though I have a plug in the bellhousing drain hole.
>How can I prevent this? Where can I find a comprehensive source of advice
>on preparing a IIA for wading?

There is a vent hole on the top of the transfer case and on a little plate
at the top rear of the transmission.  These will let water in if
underwater, and at that point you are not doing shallow wading.  A cure is
to drill out the vent holes, tap them and install D90 rear breathers.  You
can tee them together and run the tube up the bulkhead.

You also want to put Defender axle breathers on the axles too.  I found the
BIG bonus was reduced pressure and vatly reduced leakage through seals.

You NEVER want to get water in your carb.  It doesn't compress & will break
your engine.  Use the stock air cleaner and to not get it under water with
the engine running (very difficult to do) or get a snorkle kit.

You can try wraping a turn or two of electrical tape around the seam at the
base of the distributer cap.  There used to be a wading kit that included a
rubber cover for the distributer and one for the coil.  They were so tight
I never could get them on.

Don't forget flotation seat bottoms, anchor and proper running lights 8*)

>D)-Where can I find info and costs on "Limited Slip", "Air Lockers" or
>"Locking Diffs" for a IIA?

You probably want air lockers.  Limited slip diffs may lok at the wrong
time and put you in worse trouble than not having them.  Besides they make
a wonderful multideminsional storrage cabinet.... but that was a previous
thread

>A million thanks for any help or advice offered. If you are ever in
>Trinidad (Next to Grenada in the Caribbean) and you want to go off road
>call me on 809-622-7642 (4 lines)
>on preparing a IIA for wading?

Say, are you going to be in the path of the full solar eclipse Feb, 1998?

>Peter
>Trinidad (Next to Grenada in the Caribbean) and you want to go off road

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 23:03:47 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Air saws

Ned Heite wrote:

>Got me to thinking.  Could one set up an air-powered field kit on a Land
>Rover.  Air-driven chain saws?

I was going though the book "Advertising the Land Rover" just today - 
basically a collection of twenty years (1949-1969) of LR ads and stuff - and 
there *was* a photo of a bloke cutting with an air powered saw.  Trouble is 
you need a helluvalot of CFM but only moderate pressure.  Cheers

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *---1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

Date: 05 Sep 96 23:30:03 EDT
From: "Steven  L. Meier" <102141.3253@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: 109 BRAKES AND BOOSTER

Re. 109 Brakes and no pedal until a "pump" . . . make sure the brake shoes are
the correct thickness (the statement "I put on the old shoes and had brakes") 
. . . there are some supplied by USA parts houses and maybe others in the 
world (OZ for instance?) that are too thin = no pedal without a "pump".  I 
don't remember the correct thickness (also insist on bonded of the correct 
type, not rivited linings, or the "squeal" will rival a "stuck pig") but will 
measure a set with correct thickness I have at the shop in the AM and post to 
the list tomorrow PM . . . I've been there . done that before . . . not "fun" 
. . . days and $ in Castrol GT/LMA and labor.  The number of wheel cylinders 
is increased with no change of mechanical advantage in the pedal set up . . . 
Land Rover UK in the 60's saves some production $$$$$. Also, the 109 brake 
system is very sensitive to error in adjusting the brakes (floating shoes) . .
. see below for the correct method . . . follow the owners manual (quoted) 
issued by Land Rover to reach success!  Not an impossible problem that 
requires "rocket science".

Re. the recent questions concerning adding vacuum assisted brakes to Series 
Rovers with a single system.  A repost . . . sorry for the waste of band width
to those who read it before.  Needs to go to the FAQ.

6 cylinder 109's were originally equipped with a remote servo unit mounted 
behind the engine compartment battery box.  The original Girling units are not
rebuildable and used ones, due to age and a leather diaphragm (sometimes 
rubber), are not really safe . . . failure results in your brake fluid being 
sucked into the engine through the vacuum line, burned in a cloud of white 
smoke and no brakes.  Yet another Land Rover fun experience. This does not 
mean reversion to no power assist on the 109's so equipped or the inability to
add power assist to any single brake system.

AP Lockheed, England, still makes new remote servo units and lists Girling 
interchangeability for 88's and 109's.  I have replaced the original 6 
cylinder 109 units with these on restoration projects and have added these to 
others with great results.  It's a whole new braking experience for the Land 
Rover . . . no more "standing position" stops and you can actually lock up the
wheels, so some caution and driver retraining is required. After a few test 
panic stops, relax and enjoy!  Finally, servo failure does not result in brake
failure . . . just the old pedal pressure you're now using will be in effect.

Complete and very understandable installation instructions come with each new 
unit.  Follow the "rules" and all will work well.  Location within the right 
hand side of the  engine compartment is ideal (can be a tight, but not 
impossible, fit with the oil bath air cleaner and battery in the original 
position).  A suitable alternative is within the right wing (see instructions 
re. extension hose be fitted to the air control valve inlet due to dirt, grit 
and water exposure).  In addition to your normal brake bleeding routine you 
will now need to bleed the servo unit twice (at the fitting) . . . 1st before 
bleeding the wheel cylinders and 2nd re-bleed the servo after the wheel 
cylinders.

The following part(s) numbers apply.

LR      Install Kit*    Servo           Boost Ratio     
88      LE72696         LR17818         1.90:1
109     LE10118         LR15248         2.00:1
109     LE10117         LR18221         3.00:1**

*       Not absolutely necessary if you're good at fabrication of mounts, 
pipes and hoses, etc.
**      I have used this unit on two 109's and the added boost is quite nice 
on road, but it is to much for off road use . . . on rocky descents it is too 
easy to lock up the brakes resulting in tyre sliding rather than controlled 
wheel turning.

Steve at BRITPAC has access to these units . . . it think by special order.  
Call him for details, $, etc.

If you have question/problems re. availability/installation e-Mail to me or 
post on the list.

Re. questions concerning adjusting 109 brakes

>From Land-Rover Instruction Manual . Series IIA & IIB by Land Rover Ltd and 
applies to Series 107's and 109's + Forward Controls equipped with the front 
dual wheel cylinder set up and the single rear wheel set up.  This is not 
found in the Haynes Manual and is "unclear" in the factory workshop manual.  A
bit of Land Rover Factory "humor", teaching . . . if a first you don't 
succeed, read yet another source! If in "= my comments"

1.      Jack up each wheel in turn.  "Up on 4 jack stands is quicker and 
easier in the long run."
2.      Each shoe is independently set by means of a hexagon adjustment bolt 
operating through a serrated cam.   "Two per wheel."
3.      Apply the brake and set the snail cam adjusters so that the brake 
shoes are in firm contact with the drums.  "After firmly applying the brakes 
(this serves to center the floating shoes to the drum), use a stick to hold 
the pedal down.  If on jack stands, you can now set all the wheel adjusters.  
Now, remove the stick holding the pedal down."
4.      Slacken off each adjuster just sufficiently for the drum to rotate 
freely.  "Switch between the two on each wheel to get a balanced adjustment.  
If, due to worn snail cams, the adjustment is not precise, go for a bit of 
extra slack rather than leaving the shoes rub a bit . . . too tight and the 
drag = locked brakes when they heat up."
5.      Repeat for the other wheels in turn.  "If not on jack stands."
Note:   The rear brake shoes should be adjusted individually to obtain the 
best results.  "I've never quite understood this . . . sounds like a British 
attempt to translate to Japanese and back to English . . .  perhaps  you all 
will understand and explain it to me."
6.      Road test and readjust as needed (seldom a problem, but not one for 
heavy traffic later).

I think the key point is applying the brakes to center the shoes . . . a 
logical requirement due to the floating shoe design of the system.  It's 
quick, easy and best of all it works.

* * * A Side Bar . . . I just ran some trails in Teluride, CO that were "fun" 
and "exciting" . . . The Rotary Club puts on a Rally every "late summer" 
(j**ps, j^ps, etc.) and has a lot of trails mapped out of various difficulty, 
from 2WD no damage scenery to 4WD + lockers only (they will share the info) . 
. . perhaps the site for the 1997 Land Rover National Rally . . . getting back
to some trails with "adrenalin rush". Crested Butte was fun, but not realy a 
challenge.  Comments . . . experience?  Greg and Terry who organize the best 
events in the west . . . yes, I'll be more than happy to help.  Also, whatever
happend to the repeat of the "The Continental Divide" run?  Perhaps with a 
"chuckwagon and cook, no NYC salsa" or everyone who comes is responsible for 
one evening meal and the winner of the "best of the best" gets a prize 
[(perhaps a new Defender . . . Land Rover North America (BMW) will be proud to
supply it for the ads and photo opportunity?)].  I know of a River Runners 
group that does this each summer  . . . they have a great time spending a week
on he water with no outside support.  * * *

School Bus Yellow "69-72" 88, with a custom "Iron Duke", Off Road in Progress 
. . . Frame Up . . . Mine, for a change. I'm getting to "old?" . . . will be 
A-Frame towed by a j^p.  AC, comfort and no down time on the way to the 
trails.  The "greatest lady of them all" likes the fun and security of both 
worlds.

Keep the "Romance" Alive . . . Steven L. Meier
ROVERS YOU CAN RIDE . Santa Fe . New Mexico
Specializing in Complete Frame Up Restorations
Engine/Gearbox Conversions and other Options Available
e-Mail 102141.3253@Compuserve.com  1.505.438.2475  FAX 1.505.989.7622

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 23:41:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Re: British Invasion in VT

Cost is high, I could join a LRO club for that, or get spare fan belts, but
it is a time to meet other LR owners and network and see their LRs, and
since I am the only LR owner in my town, I think it is worth it.

I would think you can also just come, park in the regular lot like any one
and wander over to the LR area to chat and look around.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover
Newport NH USA   603-863-7883

At 07:31 AM 9/5/96 -0400, you wrote:
>At 22:42 96-09-04 -0500, you wrote:
>>Cost is $35 and as I was told the goodys they give you is worth at least that.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 29 lines)]
>					       \______/
>mbertran@interlinx.qc.ca <<---- Note new address!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 21:14:56 -0700
From: Greg Moore <gmoore@island.net>
Subject: Re: Air tools

Ned Heite wrote:

> :Could one
> :set up an air-powered field kit on a Land Rover? 

Grab an automotive air conditioning compressor from a scrap yard. They 
will come with an electric clutch and are belt driven. I've just begun 
converting a Chrysler V-2 piston type compressor for on board duties. 
Great fun!

Cheers, Greg

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 01:36:12 -0500
From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Subject: Then there were two

On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, source@trinidad.net (Peter Quentrall-Thomas) wrote:

>Three fantastic events have recently happened in my life.
>A)-I have taken Hercules, my 1968 IIA which I have owned from new, off
>roading in the newly formed Trinidad & Tobago Off Road Club.
>B)-I have dicovered the InterNet and e-mail
>C)-I have dicovered the LR Digest.

I'd say you've come to the right place.
Not many LROs in the region have - so far. 
Should be a 1957 SI owner in St. Vincent appearing shortly.
Cheers, Allan.

Allan Smith
Caribbean Natural Resources Institute
Vieux Fort
St. Lucia, West Indies.
Tel +(758) 454 6060
Fax +(758) 454 5188

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 22:54:00 -0700
From: faurecm@halcyon.com (C. Marin Faure)
Subject: Re: Vehicle database

>Hello Mr. Faure and thanks for the info,  When you get a chance will you
>pass along the VIN (or
>Chassis Number) to me.  This is the primary key for my database.  Is your
>book an instruction >manual or a novel?  Sounds interesting.  Is it in
>bookstores now?

>BTW,  for the database do you know the name (location) of the original dealer?

The serial number of my 1973 Series III Model 88 is 25901891B.  I lived in
Hawaii when I bought it, but there was no longer a Land Rover dealer on
Oahu in 1973.  I ordered my Land Rover over the phone from a dealer in the
San Francisco Bay area, I think in Santa Clara.  I can't remember the name
of the dealer.

My book, Flying a Floatplane (Third Edition) is a 260-page, illustrated
book on how to fly a floatplane.  It is aimed at people who already know
how to fly, but who want to obtain a seaplane rating.  It first came out in
1985.  The third edition, which includes new chapters on flying turbine
floatplanes (which is what I fly) and floatplane maintenance, came out this
spring, and is carried by aviation supply stores and mail-order stores,
primarily.  It is published by McGraw-Hill.  I have seen it sometimes in
the aviation sections of larger bookstores like Barnes & Noble.

C. Marin Faure
  1973 LR Series III Model 88
  1991 RR Vogue SE

------------------------------

From: "P Burgers" <PBURGERS@CPLS.WCAPE.GOV.ZA>
Date:          Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:32:55 +0200
Subject:       lead free Chevy conversions

anybody out there got any technical specs. on converting a Chevy
250 cu. incher & 292 cu. incher to run on lead free fuel. I have one 
of these the motive power for my SIII.

I would need info on oversize valve guides, valve seats etc.  as well 
as timing info

Peter Burgers 

------------------------------

From: "Mr Ian Stuart" <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 08:33:47 +0000
Subject: Re: Replacing (Series III) leaf-springs

Quoting Adrian Redmond, from  5 Sep 96

> Can one buy Galvanised springs? (In europe? fed-ex charges maybe a
> little high considering the weight!)) Does anyone have any experience of
> this matter. Are there better alternatives to LR originals - I seek long
> working life, good suspension and handling, and a clean, new appearance.
> Does this exist?
My suggestion:

Remove each spring in turn, take it apart and clean each leaf 
(sand-blast/wire brush/whatever) and then oil each one before each 
re-assembling.  If you can use an extra-sticky oil between each leaf 
before assembly, you will get superb flexibility. (replace the bushes will 
also improve handling)

After re-assembly, "paint" both sides of each spring with old EP90 oil 
each week.

The oil will keep your springs in good condition and give you excellent 
handling.

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

However strong my opinions are, they are mine and no-one elses.

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: Brake servo warning lamp
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 96 8:39:40 BST

> snip
> > but removing the vacuum reservoir from the circuit did! Without the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> I suspected it was a vac leak given the symptoms.
> I'll see if any of my manuals have a wiring diagram.

The MoD 3/4 ton manual includes this switch in the diagrams (or it does
for my 24v version). My switch/light doesn't work either, but found it
wasn't wire up. Tried wiring up (coloured wires, were not *quite* what
they should be) - still doesn't work. Something to investigate in the
future...

Is this light/switch an MoD special perhaps?

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: So Called Specialists
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 96 8:59:08 BST

> *know* have been correctly stored and stock rotated into a vehicle before
> attempting to diagnose an electrical fault and from there I wouldn't trust
> anything but Lucas branded components. This is not an advert for anyone

Did anyone see Top Gear last-night?
That second-hand-car-dealer geezer (the one who owns the Stage I - Quentin
somebody or other?) was extolling the virtues of Lucas parts like nobody's
business. Obviously a yuppy Landy enthusiast!   :-)
 
The item was about new Euro regulation regarding aftermarket parts. What's
the deal on this? Top Gear were laying it on a bit thick, and I can't
see them de facto banning all aftermarket parts somehow...

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:09:59 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: So Called Specialists

>The item was about new Euro regulation regarding aftermarket parts. What's
>the deal on this? Top Gear were laying it on a bit thick, and I can't
>see them de facto banning all aftermarket parts somehow...
Could you elaborate for those of us who didnt see it please?

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: "Mr Ian Stuart" <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:24:36 +0000
Subject: Re: Top Gear V's the car lobby

Quoting Mike Rooth, from  6 Sep 96

> >The item was about new Euro regulation regarding aftermarket parts.
> >What's the deal on this? Top Gear were laying it on a bit thick, and I
> >can't see them de facto banning all aftermarket parts somehow...
> Could you elaborate for those of us who didnt see it please?
Quentin Wilson did a report concerning possible new legislation (UK? 
Brussles?) such that car manufacturers would gain a monopoly on supplying 
"body panels and fittings" for their vehicles.

Places like Autoglass would be put out of business as they would be 
breaking the monoploy legislation.

The two examples given were (stlg= UK pond symbol), from memory:
Lucas headlight for Ford Fiesta: stlg24 from an aftermarket dealer, stlg45 from 
a Ford Agent
Mondeo windscreen: stlg108 fitted from Autoglass, stlg180 from Ford dealer.

The main complaints were:
1) It's a monopoly
2) The car manufacturers are not making enough profit from car sales, so 
they want to make more profit from spares - at the drivers expense. This 
would put the cost of insurance up
3) there would be no market forces to keep the price of parts down
4) old cars would die out as the spares became unavailable
5) manufacturers like Boche, Lucas, etc make the parts for the car 
manufacturers, so how can the manufacturers demand a monopoly on selling 
the spares?
6) a whole sector of the business comunity would become illegal overnight, 
putting thousands of people out of work

People who spoke out against the idea were Lloyds Insurance and the AA
No car manufacturer spoke for the case.

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

However strong my opinions are, they are mine and no-one elses.

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: So Called Specialists
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 96 11:24:55 BST

> >The item was about new Euro regulation regarding aftermarket parts. What's
> >the deal on this? Top Gear were laying it on a bit thick, and I can't
> >see them de facto banning all aftermarket parts somehow...

> Could you elaborate for those of us who didnt see it please?

I'm not exactly sure - that's why I was asking!

(I was also trying to eat my dinner - and add up a phonebill)

Somewhere along the lines, the EC want to somehow restrict aftermarket sales
to just the original manufacturers' parts. Eg. If I broke an Escort light,
I'd have to buy a Ford unit rather than a Lucas one (using Mr. Quentin's
example). This would also affect such things as windscreen replacements and
the such. He seemed to thing the whole parts industry would collapse, and
unemployment would be huge,etc.
The manufacturers say they are doing it so that spare parts are in good nick
(we've all heard of dodgy parts breaking). TG argued that this doesn't 
affect the bulk of body parts - which are sold in suitable condition. He
also went on to say that the majoirty of aftermarket parts companies (naming
Lucas and Hella as particular examples) produce quality parts anyway.

I can't see how such regulations would work - and that was main query. Unless
they restricted the production rights for parts for new vehicles? 

Richard

------------------------------

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