Land Rover Owner Message Digest Contents


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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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1 LRO Book Shop & The LRO 18New BOOK
2 Easton Trevor [TEASTON@D10New TV series
3 Easton Trevor [TEASTON@D16RAVing some more
4 Lloyd Allison [lloyd@cs.15fibreglass springs
5 Lloyd Allison [lloyd@cs.2[not specified]
6 garnold@clvm.clarkson.ed11Front hub drive flanges
7 garnold@clvm.clarkson.ed2[not specified]
8 "John P. Casteel" [jcast21Re: Vehicle database
9 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em14Re: The head came off!
10 "John P. Casteel" [jcast19Re: Series Database
11 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em10Re: Replacing bushes ala LRW
12 "Adams, Bill" [badams@us10Re: towing
13 Nathan Dunsmore [dunsmo120Soft shelled to Hard shelled
14 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob17Re: Replacing bushes ala LRW
15 "Terje Krogdahl" [terje@32Re: The head came off!
16 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob18Re: Soft shelled to Hard shelled
17 "Terje Krogdahl" [terje@31Re: Soft shelled to Hard shelled
18 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em24Re: towing
19 Greg Moore [gmoore@islan30Re: fibreglass springs
20 "Tom Rowe" [WI.Center.fo23steering bush reaming
21 Andy Woodward [azw@aber.27 Re: Brakes
22 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em13Re: The head came off!
23 ChrisF6724@aol.com 20Four Wheeler magazine
24 debrown@srp.gov 67towing
25 jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.c31portland rover
26 "Ron Franklin" [oldhaven9snowplow FS
27 "Douglas Main, jr" [doug42FW: Driveshaft phase
28 Benjamin Allan Smith [be21[not specified]
29 David Rosenbaum [rosenba16LRs at Portland
30 "Tom Rowe" [WI.Center.fo27Re: FW: Driveshaft phase
31 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob31Done?...I doubt it.
32 Michel Bertrand [mbertra30Re: Replacing bushes ala LRW
33 ChrisF6724@aol.com 16RE: Series III plastic dash
34 ChrisF6724@aol.com 28Gas can carriers/ tow hooks
35 "Tom Rowe" [WI.Center.fo36Re: Gas can carriers/ tow hooks
36 "Adams, Bill" [badams@us18Best place for gas(or Diesel) cans...
37 Nathan Dunsmore [dunsmo123Re: Replacing bushes ala LRW
38 wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter d43Re: 109 Brake bleeding
39 "Adams, Bill" [badams@us30Mark Tompkins' tasty 109
40 "John P. Casteel" [jcast32Series Database Update
41 VizionTeam@aol.com 24Tighten Lug Nuts!
42 lopezba@atnet.at 23Re: James Taylor on Series I's
43 twakeman@scruznet.com (T37Re: Replacement Seats
44 twakeman@scruznet.com (T15Re: Spin on oil filter: Pros & Cons???
45 Wdcockey@aol.com 39Re: Re: James Taylor on Series I's
46 Bruce.Curtis@Eng.Sun.COM41Vinyl stickers
47 Lodelane@aol.com 11Re: fibreglass springs
48 Lodelane@aol.com 20Re: Replacing bushes ala LRW
49 m.belik@uws.edu.au (Miro34Re: 109 Brake Bleeding
50 rover@pinn.net (Alexande21Fuel tanks
51 rover@pinn.net (Alexande2[not specified]
52 nahari ofir [ofir_n@park46Re: Restoration
53 CarDoctor@gnn.com (Rober20Re: 109 Brake Bleeding
54 nahari ofir [ofir_n@park13Re: Replacement Seats
55 twakeman@scruznet.com (T16Portland count adendum
56 "David Lee" [DJFLee@msn.19Series III Brakes
57 "David J. Mercer" [merki32RE: riv-nut quandary...
58 "David J. Mercer" [merki34RE: SI 80" advice
59 Rob Dennis [73363.427@Co31Re: The head came off!
60 QROVER80@aol.com 30Re: towing
61 hiner@roadrunner.com (Gr481970 LR 88 For Sale
62 ericz@cloud9.net 24Re: portland rover
63 ericz@cloud9.net 22Re: Vehicle database
64 ericz@cloud9.net 13Re: towing
65 ericz@cloud9.net 23Re: FW: Driveshaft phase
66 ericz@cloud9.net 21Re: Fuel tanks
67 osmicr [osmicr@uslink.ne11unsubscribe
68 osmicr [osmicr@uslink.ne11unsubscribe
69 "Christopher H. Dow" [do152Rubicon Trail, Transmission Noise, and Mr. Lucas
70 David Place [dplace@SIRN30New springs fitted.
71 rovah@agate.net (John Ca17Coming to the Cape
72 Roger Sinasohn [sinasohn92Spin-on Oil Filters, or How to spoil your vacation (long)
73 Adrian Redmond [channel623Re: New springs fitted.
74 "Jens Vesterdahl" [jve@p27Re: The locks on SIII
75 "Mr Ian Stuart" [Ian.Stu65dispute regarding vehicular access to the Corrieyairack Pass
76 "T. Stevenson" [gbfv08@u25Re: The locks on SIII
77 Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus [A5Re: Soft shelled to Hard shelled


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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 07:38:19 -0400
From: LRO Book Shop & The LRO Shop <lroshop@idirect.com>
Subject: New BOOK

I found this in a bookstore in Portland and read it on the plane ride
back.  Lots and lots of Series I details.  I'd recommend it to anyone
restoring a Series I.  Cover price is L 19.95 and I paid ~$35.

You got it at a good price.  We have the book available at the same price +
shipping which would bring the price to a little over the amount you paid.
It is already proving to be a popular book among Series I owners.

Regards

Kevin

BTW: I will get to the T-shirt list this week and provide an up to date report.

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From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: New TV series
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 96 08:05:00 DST

Scott Frugate writes "The African soldiers, or game rangers, or whatever 
they were had a WILLIS
Jeep" (My Cap.s)
Is this an aging, balding jeep with a bad attitude?

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From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: RAVing some more
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 96 08:27:00 DST

 -Subject: Re: Trevor's Flame Fodder

 ->>Toy Otter may introduce it as an electric vehicle soon...

 -It'll take a pretty long extension cord to get into the woods with one of
 -*those*. Pity they don't have an ARB locker to coil it up in!?! ;-)
 -Cheers!!
 -John Dillingham

RAV's don't have ARB lockers because they install Thorsen Rockers

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 22:54:40 +1000 (EST)
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: fibreglass springs

Fibreglass springs and oz army - not that I've heard, but maybe.
Leyland ~ Rover (?) fitted fibreglass springs to a delivery van
in the 70's or 80's *I think*.
They normally replace leaf-springs and leaves are out, so what vehicle
would use them now?

The RRII has fibreglass trailing arms which don't carry a load but
do get tortured and provide roll stiffness.

Lloyd

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:23:00 -0700
From: garnold@clvm.clarkson.edu (Guy Arnold)
Subject: Front hub drive flanges

I am looking for a pair of original front drive flanges for a 1973 Series
III. I would trade my free wheel hubs. I am located in upstate NY (Potsdam)
and will be attending the British Invasion. Any help out there?
Guy Arnold
1973 Series III swb
"Green Machine"

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Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 09:37:19 -0500
From: "John P. Casteel" <jcasteel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Vehicle database

C. Marin Faure wrote:
> Here's another entry for whoever is compiling the Land Rover database.
> 1973 Series III Model 88.  Limestone, 2-1/4 petrol.  I am the original
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> C. Marin Faure
>         author, Flying A Floatplane

Hello Mr. Faure and thanks for the info,  When you get a chance will you pass along the VIN (or 
Chassis Number) to me.  This is the primary key for my database.  Is you book an instruction manual or 
a novel?  Sounds interesting.  Is it in bookstores now?

BTW,  for the database do you know the name (location) of the original dealer?

Best Regards,

jc

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:34:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: The head came off!

On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, David Olley at New Concept wrote:

> By the way, when replacing the head, do not use the copper gasket. Use the 
> later "non retorque" type (fibre faced). 

	Copper gaskets are reusable, all the fibre gaskets I have seen 
	are the Genuine ones missing some holes.  If LR will pay for a 
	rebuild, I'll happily try one out.  I see no problem with copper
	gaskets.  Retorquing doesn't take that long.  Good practice... :-)

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Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 09:39:20 -0500
From: "John P. Casteel" <jcasteel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Series Database

Can you supply the VIN/Chassis number for these?  The primary key of the 
database is this number and, if at all possible, I don't want to dummy 
the numbers.

Thank you,

jc

Roger Sinasohn wrote:
> I submitted this info before, but not in the right format; here it is
> proper if you haven't entered it yet.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)]
> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
> San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:58:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Replacing bushes ala LRW

On Mon, 2 Sep 1996 Wdcockey@aol.com wrote:

> No personal experience.

`	Torch, burnt 'em out was my approach when they failed to shift.

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 96 9:58:10 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: towing

Unbolt the prop shafts from the diffs and tow to your heart's content.
If the truck has FW hubs, unlock them.
A RR should be able to tow without needing extra braking.
Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator

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Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 10:07:52 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Soft shelled to Hard shelled

Hi all,

Getting ready to switch to the hard top in the next week or two.  I've only
put on a hard top a couple of times...

Is there just the 4 corner bolts (long), the line along the windscreen, the 2
side brackets and the 2 short bolts at the rear door opening?  I think that's
all.  Plus, has anyone chosen not to put that $20 weatherstrip between the 
windscreen and hard top?
Thanks
-- 
Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, MD 21020
dunsmo19@us.net

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Date: Tue, 03 Sep 96 10:20:02 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Replacing bushes ala LRW

Bush this, bush that...snip...freeze this, heat that...snip... whack this with a
large widget, use a thick washer...hacksaw this, yeah yeah yeah... 

I got all my frame bushings OUT using the burn and cut method. Not fun. I 
replaced with OME polybushes, that went in by pressing them with a 2x4. 
Basically, push one side in, push the other side in, and then either pound the 
metal sleeve in or push it with a block of wood. I'll never go back to regular 
bushes. Installation took all of twenty minutes. Rides quite nice too.

Cheers
Dave B.
What bump?

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From: "Terje Krogdahl" <terje@multix.no>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 16:19:22 +0200
Subject: Re: The head came off!

Dixon wrote:

> > By the way, when replacing the head, do not use the copper gasket. Use the
> > later "non retorque" type (fibre faced).
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> 	rebuild, I'll happily try one out.  I see no problem with copper
> 	gaskets.  Retorquing doesn't take that long.  Good practice... :-)

You'll have to retorque the fibre type as well. I put one on my engine,
after a showrt while it didn't run very well. OK, time to break out the
torque wrench... and quite right, retorquing was needed.

Speaking of fibre gaskets missing some holes, my engine has a small
overheating problem after my rebuild... is there a way to figure out
wether I have a gasket with missing holes? No? Thought so.

'Till later,

TK
1972 SIII 88" 2.25 petrol

-- 
**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--
Terje Krogdahl              Multix A/S            Phone   +47 2206 2600
E-Mail: terje@multix.no     Lilleakerveien 31     Fax     +47 2206 2626
        support@multix.no   N-0283 OSLO, Norway   Support +47 2206 2628

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Date: Tue, 03 Sep 96 10:25:42 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Soft shelled to Hard shelled

>>>Is there just the 4 corner bolts (long), the line along the windscreen, the 2
side brackets and the 2 short bolts at the rear door opening?  I think that's
all.  Plus, has anyone chosen not to put that $20 weatherstrip between the 
windscreen and hard top?

Yep, that's all the bolts.
We just put my roof on Saturday, and the gap between the roof and rear tub is 
pretty big, we think because of the poor condition of the weatherstripping. 

I'll be redoing it before winter.

Dave B.
on the road again...

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From: "Terje Krogdahl" <terje@multix.no>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 16:25:07 +0200
Subject: Re: Soft shelled to Hard shelled

Nathan wrote:

> Is there just the 4 corner bolts (long), the line along the windscreen, the 2
> side brackets and the 2 short bolts at the rear door opening?  I think that's
> all.  Plus, has anyone chosen not to put that $20 weatherstrip between the
> windscreen and hard top?

On my 88" there are two small supporting brackets on the sides as well,
but I consider them optional. I'm not sure they're orgiginal, nor
needed.

As for the weatherstrip on top of the windscreen, if you don't mind getting
wet just drop it :-) I use two strips of the stuff you use to insulate drafty
door and window openings in your house beside each other, glued to the top
of the windshield. Works like a charm once you tighten down the ten bolts
along the edge.

TK
1972 SIII 88" 2.25 petrol

-- 
**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--
Terje Krogdahl              Multix A/S            Phone   +47 2206 2600
E-Mail: terje@multix.no     Lilleakerveien 31     Fax     +47 2206 2626
        support@multix.no   N-0283 OSLO, Norway   Support +47 2206 2628

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 10:48:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: towing

On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, Blair Gillespie wrote:

> 1. I am sure people have flat towed their series before so I would like to
> know their experiences with doing so. I have access to tow bumber that is
> made for a series vehicle so that would be a clean installation. This would

	This is how we do it up here all the time.  If it rolls, flat tow
	it.  Done it with many a Series vehicle.  

> be nice because their would be no trailer weight but the idea of not having
> brakes behind is not all that appealing. Do people think that my RR  brakes
> would be ok?

	If my 109 can tow another in its current immaculate shape, drums
	all round, your RR should think this is a piece of cake.

	Rgds,

	Dixon

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Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:38:11 -0700
From: Greg Moore <gmoore@island.net>
Subject: Re: fibreglass springs

Lloyd Allison wrote:
 
> Fibreglass springs and oz army - not that I've heard, but maybe.
> Leyland ~ Rover (?) fitted fibreglass springs to a delivery van
> in the 70's or 80's *I think*.
> They normally replace leaf-springs and leaves are out, so what vehicle
> would use them now?

Thanks for the response Lloyd. I was thinking of replacement springs for series 
vehicles. The fiberglass springs should save about 40lbs per corner and last many 
times longer, in terms of suspension cycles, relative to a steel spring.

I was talking to a fellow from Portland (Franklin Simpkins - anyone know him?) 
who fitted a 6" longer than stock spring pack to the front end of his military 
109" in search of better suspension compliance. He used custom 1st and 2nd leaves 
(steel) along with the remainder of the stock LR springs in conjunction with 
relocated spring hangers and chassis bushes, and long shock absorbers on custom 
towers, to make this work. Although still stiffer than I'd like, Franklin says 
the overall travel is much improved over stock. This got me thinking of the flat 
60" long fiberglass leaf springs on the fleet vehicles maintained by a friend of 
mine (Chevy mini vans). He is reporting excellent performance from these 
fiberglass leaves so I thought I'd ask about the experiences of the oz army 
assuming such an experiment ever took place.

Cheers, Greg - thinking and driving again!

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From: "Tom Rowe" <WI.Center.for.Dairy.Research@calshp.cals.wisc.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 10:04:17 -6
Subject: steering bush reaming

Thanks for the replies. Two saying ream, one saying no ream.
Well, I just got them when I came in late from stopping at the 
machine shop to get the bush reamed (I'd of had to drive the rocker in 
with a hammer if I hadn't). Once again I learned if you want 
something doen right, do it yourself. $26 to have the bush reamed too 
much. So I guess next year I'll rebuild it again. :-(
Won't be visiting that shop again. You'd think an engine shop would 
be more careful.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

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From: Andy Woodward <azw@aber.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 15:58:47 +0000
Subject:  Re: Brakes

>:BUT, when I try to put the things back together they
>:don't seem to sit properly. The LR is a series 3 stage 1 and I think
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>You just learned a lesson: Before dismantling, sketch (and keep
>sketch in a safe place).

I had a simliar problem after getting a cylinder replaced on the 90

I could pump up the brhakes but afdter a few seconds, they'd go to 
teh floor without operating. No matter how I bled em, even with an 
Easybleed, teh problem stayed. Why? If I clamped off teh rears, the 
pedal was perfect.

Cos teh rear shoes on teh 90 are joined together by the botttom 
spring, but the top spring only goes to one shoe. If you do the 
obvious thing as the garage had done and connect both springs to both 
shoes, then the springs were compressing teh wheel cylinder so it had 
to be pumped out before the shoes contacted the drum! The brakes are 
now perfect (in the postmodern LR useage of teh word 'perfect')

I'd guess the Series is the same?

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 11:20:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: The head came off!

On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, Terje Krogdahl wrote:

> Speaking of fibre gaskets missing some holes, my engine has a small
> overheating problem after my rebuild... is there a way to figure out
> wether I have a gasket with missing holes? No? Thought so.

	Apart from removing the head and comparing?  Nope...  Well, maybe.
	Was the gasket a genuine one circa a couple years ago in mfg.?

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From: ChrisF6724@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 11:33:51 -0400
Subject: Four Wheeler magazine

Just got my new Four Wheeler (October issue?).   
Anyway, it has a bunch of articles that might be of interest to Rover owners.
  It has a feature vehicle that is a Series II hybrid "the Lockless Monster"
(coiler, V8 range rover conversion).  (I also spotted this same Rover in the
LRO International (??) magazine that had a article on Easter weekend at Moab)
 It also has a article on following Hanabal's (sp.) through Spain in a
Discovery.   Also, there is a short on off-road driving schools of which
quite a few were for Rovers....   There was also a quick feature on one of
their "tough truck" competitors driving a Unimog.  Also had a full feature
article on another Unimog .   It was fun to read articles that didn't just
talk about "Jeeps".....

Chris Fisher
'73 Land Rover 88 Series III hybrid

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From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 03 Sep 96 08:53:17 MST
Subject: towing

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist ~ S.R.P. ~ AM/FM - Graphic Records
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
I've towed my 109 with the RR up the mountains, from Phoenix (1000'
elevation) to Flagstaff (7000'+ elevation). While I really wouldn't
recommend this, obviously it CAN be done. It was tediously slow.
Probably as slow as 25mph while floored or nearly floored. A great
strain on the RR engine, I'm sure. I was passed by many semi trucks.

For flat towing, over a relatively short distance, I'd say go for it.
It'll handle the weight okay. After all, the towing capacity is
something like 5000#, though this may be some sort of fabricated number
- don't know what they base this on, the RR can barely propel itself at
times! (Could be just mine?)

Use your head, LOOOONG braking allotment, slow starts, gradual stops,
slow speeds, you should be okay.

Good luck... Dave.

#=======#         _________         "What lies behind us and what lies
|__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___    before us are tiny matters compared
| _|  |   |_ |}  \__ - ____ - _|}  to what lies within us."
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                     Ralph Waldo Emerson
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 19:02:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: i712642@server
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
From: Blair Gillespie <Gillespie@thegrid.net>
Subject: towing
Cc: Land-Rover-Owner@playground.sun.com

Good evening,
        I am about to go pick up my new S III this week and I have a couple
questions.

1. I am sure people have flat towed their series before so I would like to
know their experiences with doing so. I have access to tow bumber that is
made for a series vehicle so that would be a clean installation. This would
be nice because their would be no trailer weight but the idea of not having
brakes behind is not all that appealing. Do people think that my RR  brakes
would be ok?

2. Would it be better to use a tow dolly ?   Does anybody know if tow
dollies have surge brakes?

3. A trailer. While this would probably be the best way it does not lend it
self to loading the Land Rover by myself and the added weight of the trailer
plus an 88 makes for a slow trip up and back.
                Comments,
                        Rover On,
                                Blair
P.S. I will be using my 88 RR for the tow vehicle.
Blair Gillespie
San Luis Obispo Ca. USA
1988 Range Rover
1973 S III 88
1967 FLH HD

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:06:53 -0700
From: jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (john hess)
Subject: portland rover

Howdy,

Ben Smith posted a detailed account of the rovers at Portland but may have
missed one that parked early and then left early (by 11AM?).  It was a D90
in conniston green (the dark green) that had a unique personalization:  the
steel caps along the top of the doors(?), rear bed and down the rear
corners had been removed, stripped and galvanized!!!  (then put back on)
It looked (IMHO) VERY NICE although I heard someone say it was a good
display of someone having too much time on his/her hands.

the weather was good, the company superb and the selection of microbrews
that people brought was excellent.  comments about the bbq were polite;
half the $15 price would have been good and an adjustment for children
would also be good.
I think that the saturday potluck for rover owners back in camp should turn
into an annual event.

Dare I suggest that the rover owners work independently from the rest of
the meet and pick 3 peoples(rover owners') choice awards for rovers?

Thanks to everyone,

jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us
from home via modem
Land-
  -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda owner!

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From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@biddeford.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 12:39:57 -0500
Subject: snowplow FS

Fisher Quick Switch plow rig, fits series LR's.  $500 in Mid Coast Maine.

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 96 16:34:00 UT
From: "Douglas Main, jr" <douglastmain@msn.com>
Subject: FW: Driveshaft phase

----------
From: 	Douglas T. Main[FAX:+1 (203) 740-3440]
Sent: 	Tuesday, September 03, 1996 12:20 PM
Subject: 	RE: Driveshaft phase

Dixon writes:

The Rovers North catalogue (page 37) shoes the yokes at either end
	of the driveshaft 90 degrees out from each other.

	The IIA Parts catalogue (page 1H 07) shows them in parallel

	The III parts catalogue (page 1J 14) shows them parallel

	I presume the RN catalogue is wrong.
 

Thanks for the response.  You are right they are different, but both drive 
shafts are in phase.  How you ask?  Maximum interference (meaning vibration) 
will occur when one end of the drive shaft is 45 degrees different from the 
other.  If you were to plot interference vs angular difference(every 10 deg.)  
on paper you would find minimum interference at 0 degree and 90 degree.  In 
other words, if you were to look down the length of any "in phase" drive shaft 
with just the crosses in place, like you were aiming a gun, both crosses would 
line up perfectly as long as the yokes are parallel or 90 degrees different 
from each other.  
The one factor that we are not considering are the splines.  There might be 
only be one position on the splines that makes the driveshaft "in phase".  If 
you were in serious doubt and tried every possible position spline by spline, 
take it to a drive shaft shop and have them assemble the shaft or (worst case) 
have them re-tube or rebuild the shaft and re balance it.
I hope I answered your question.

Doug

	

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Subject: Re: portland rover 
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 09:43:02 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@ridgecrest.ca.us>

In message <199609031559.IAA28689@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you write:

>> Ben Smith posted a detailed account of the rovers at Portland but may have
>> missed one that parked early and then left early (by 11AM?).  It was a D90
>> in conniston green (the dark green) that had a unique personalization:  the
>> steel caps along the top of the doors(?), rear bed and down the rear
>> corners had been removed, stripped and galvanized!!!  (then put back on)

	I had previously looked at Mike Fredette's D90, so when I came to his
empty spot, I counted is Rover as being present.

Ben
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Smith----------bens@ridgecrest.ca.us----------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:54:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: LRs at Portland

On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote:

|  Between 1pm and 2pm on Saturday I walked around and counted...A total
|  of 93 Land Rovers (and 2 Rover cars) were present.

And at the camp-out, my son Will counted 47 Land Rovers on Sunday morning,
just as breakfast was being served ( I counted 51, but might have repeated
repeated a count or two)

Best wishes,
David

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From: "Tom Rowe" <WI.Center.for.Dairy.Research@calshp.cals.wisc.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 12:01:50 -6
Subject: Re: FW: Driveshaft phase

I haven't been following this thread too closely, but while waiting 
for a needed file to finish downloading (boy, is 3Com's site slow) 
thought I'd read. Of course, that generated thoughts on my part 
(always dangerous).
Anyway, as I recall, not being able to crawl under a truck at the 
moment, dual Cardan(?) CV joints in drive shafts have the two inner
yokes 90 degrees from each other. Assuming that the CV joint 
mfg's. know their business, I'd think that would apply to a regular 
drive shaft using our typical LR joint, which in a sense, is just a very 
long CV joint.

Or as Doug Main said, one could just call a driveline shop and ask.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

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Date: Tue, 03 Sep 96 13:04:47 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Done?...I doubt it.

Well...

After one VERY late Saturday evening, and some enormously unselfish assistance 
from a few other list members, the Green Car is now home and is back in service.

The shakedown:

Front main seal still leaking from around screw holes. 
Transfer box leaking at drain plug
Roof doesn't quite seal against rear body cappings
Clutch pedal freeplay not quite enough, seems to have gotten a little better
Hazard switch doesn't light up anymore

Nothing that can't be fixed without alot of hassle, so I'm happy.

Otherwise it's just as loud, 'cept for the gearbox, and just as hot inside. And 
Im sure it will leak about the same when it rains...

Just witing for overdrives to become available and then maybe at some point I'll
be able to get my 16" wheels set up when I can afford tires.

Cheers

Dave B.
Arlington VA 
72 SIII SWB "Green Car" 

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:10:30 -0400
From: Michel Bertrand <mbertran@InterLinx.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: Replacing bushes ala LRW

snip...

 Then use hacksaw blade to almost cut through the outer
>tube along its length in two locations 10mm - 12mm apart. Then use punch or
>chisel to peel out section between cuts; remainder of bush should follow.

Instead of using a manual hacksaw, I prefer the electric version. Over here,
it is called a rat-tail-saw, designed just like a jigsaw, but to use
horizontally. You can put a metal blade over 8 inches long, which is enough
to cut through the bushing. Does the job in 5 minutes and no sweat. If you
don't have one, try to borrow or rent one. Carpenters use them to cut
through anything when they have to do renovations.

Just a thought, 

Michel Bertrand
						______
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada, 		       /    __
					      /        \
1963 109 PU (Rudolph)	   		     | Lucas    |
1968 109 SW (in the works)		     |  Inside  |
1973 88 SW (21st century project)	      \        /
					       \______/

mbertran@interlinx.qc.ca <<---- Note new address!

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From: ChrisF6724@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:29:21 -0400
Subject: RE: Series III plastic dash

You might take it down to a upholstery shop.  We had a old Nissan 240z with a
cracked dash.  They were able to fill the crack and patch.   They did such a
good job, that we can't even tell where it was patched even knowing where it
had been done.  They were able to match the texture as well.  It was only
about $50 as well and only took a couple of hours.

PS.  Just read your post that you already fixed your problem, but I thought
I'd post anyway...
Chris Fisher
'73 Land Rover 88 Series III hybrid

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From: ChrisF6724@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:29:13 -0400
Subject: Gas can carriers/ tow hooks

I was wondering if there is anyone who sells a dual 5 gal. gas can carrier
that uses the spare tire mounting plate on the rear door of my '73 Series III
88?  I've seen pictures of Rovers with this kind of mounting, but my RN
catalog doesn't list it...  Are these custom?  Do I need to add a third hinge
to help with the added weight?

I was also wondering what I should do about tow hooks on the rear.  My
Rover's rear cross member apparently rusted off sometime ago and was replaced
with 4" x 2 1/2" tube steel.  If I mount tow hooks upside down to the bottom
of the steel, then I think they might just snag when off-road.  I have
contemplated buying the neat "pin" type tow hook from RN, but they seem kind
of pricey.  A friend suggested mounting a L3x3x1/4" angle to the steel then
mounting the hooks on top of it.  What would you suggest?  I prefer hooks or
pin because my recovery strap (kinetic kind) has a loop instead of hooks....
 Also, is there anyway to check visually to make sure the welds on the tube
steel would be strong enough (besides ripping off the bumper when I have to
be yanked out of some hole ;-).   What should I look for; the PO did some
really nasty looking welding all over the Rover (including welding the engine
to the frame..)

Chris Fisher
'73 Land Rover 88 Series III hybrid 

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From: "Tom Rowe" <WI.Center.for.Dairy.Research@calshp.cals.wisc.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 12:52:42 -6
Subject: Re: Gas can carriers/ tow hooks

> I was wondering if there is anyone who sells a dual 5 gal. gas can carrier
> that uses the spare tire mounting plate on the rear door of my '73 Series III
> 88? 
Having been on the receiving end of a rearend collision, there's NO 
WAY would I cary gas cans on the rear of my car.

 I've seen pictures of Rovers with this kind of mounting, but my RN
> catalog doesn't list it...  Are these custom?  Do I need to add a third hinge
> to help with the added weight?
But, if you really insist, I would add a hinge.

> I was also wondering what I should do about tow hooks on the rear.  My
> Rover's rear cross member apparently rusted off sometime ago and was replaced
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> really nasty looking welding all over the Rover (including welding the engine
> to the frame..)
Given the apparent SPOTS (welded the engine to the frame???), I 
wouldn't trust any of it until it was redone. You can't visually 
inspect a weld (other than x-ray) to see if it's strong enough. But 
you should be able to trust a competent welder. That said, an ugly 
weld is *very* likely a bad weld.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 96 14:18:13 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Best place for gas(or Diesel) cans...

The best place to carry fuel cans is on top of the vehicle. I f you have 
a roof rack so much better, but a jury rigged arrangement is OK.
You'll want to have the cans laying on their narrow side with the filler 
hole up and at the side where the truck's filler tube is located. Be sure 
they are firmly lashed and not prone to any movement. 
This way, the cans are protected from bashes and crashes, are out of the 
way, you won't have to lift them down and are right where you need them 
for filling operations. You simply open the jug and siphon directly into 
the fuel tank. In the case of diesel fuel this helps reduce the 
inevitable crud in the bottom.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator

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Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 14:38:07 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Re: Replacing bushes ala LRW

Michel Bertrand wrote:

> Instead of using a manual hacksaw, I prefer the electric version. Over here,
> it is called a rat-tail-saw, designed just like a jigsaw, but to use
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> don't have one, try to borrow or rent one. Carpenters use them to cut
> through anything when they have to do renovations.

Milwaukee's version is called the Sawzall and Porter-Cable calls theirs
Tiger Saw. DeWalt makes one too.  I agree with you.  There are a zillion
different shaped blades and most of the reciprocating saws come with 
a wood mode (oval rotary motion) and a metal mode (back and forth motion
only).  One of my favorite tools--right up there with the angle grinder.

Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, MD 21020
dunsmo19@us.net

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:42:03 +0200
From: wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal)
Subject: Re: 109 Brake bleeding

Hi Robert & all

>told were not available here) I installed 1 1/2 Dia. rear wheel slaves.

Did these fit on the standard backing plates, i.e. the ones with the single
adjuster at the bottom? Look at your previous cylinders, you'll see that
there's a plate that stops the shoes, i.e. the shoes rest on the plate and
doesn't compress the brake cylinder fully. On the later (IIA) rear brakes
each shoe has its own snail cam, which stops the shoe from fully compressing
the slave cyl. If you mix the two systems, you'll need much more fluid to
get the brakes up. Is this clear? I'm an engineer, I need to draw pictures :-)

1. Old (Series II) system: Assuming brakes not pressed, when you adjust the
brakes the pivot point is the plate on top of the slave.

2. New (Series IIA) system: The pivot is at the bottom.

So I would say you probably need the newer type backing plate (Assuming I'm
understanding the problem...)

>Normal work so far.  Then the fun begins with no brake pedal.  So following 
>the book I clamped off the brake hoses to find the air in the system. If I 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>either front or back brakes but not both. the master also does not seem to 
>"return " when in the bleeding process. 

I'm not quite getting where you're clamping the rear hose. Are you clamping
it (the hose between the chassis and the rear axle) at the chassis side and
then at the axle side? 'Cause then I'd say replace the hose, it's ballooning.

CIAO

W
--
Wouter de Waal        Phone : +27 21 683 5490
Development Engineer  Fax   : +27 21 683 5435
CCII Systems
Kenilworth, South Africa

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 96 10:43:09 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Mark Tompkins' tasty 109

Mark was kind enough to drive the 40 minutes over to my house on Sunday 
to show off his totally key 109 hybrid. Let me tell ya, it's one of the 
best you'll see anywhere.
The folks that did the conversion used only the best stuff on this truck. 
Late 110 axles and everything. Looks like a Turner 2.25 engine,but I 
forget to ask these things sometimes. Custom exhaust with a quick release 
feature at the manifold. Even has those Trac-Edge BFG tires.
They also used a hefty amount of undercoating and that gunk they spray on 
to protect against flying rocks which makes the interior almost 
sedan-like in terms of quietness.
The exterior paint was done in a nice marine blue with a trop roof in 
limestone.
Accessories include a winch-ready bull bar, Brownchurch rack, LR 
mudflaps, wheel arch extensions and an articulating rear tire carrier 
that attaches to the door and the right corner.
All aftermarket seating with fold-down rears and high back fronts.There 
is a stereo mounted on a home built mahogany shelf and big speakers in 
back.

This is essentially a 110 made from an old S3 body. Very tasty.
He says he'll be at the Mid Atlantic Rally so be sure to stuck yer head 
in and under this fine 4WD.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator

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Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 15:52:13 -0500
From: "John P. Casteel" <jcasteel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Series Database Update

This information is based on 8 vehicles reported.

Vehicles by Year:       Vehicles by Series:     Vehicles by WBase:
1951    -  1            I       -   2             80"   -   1
1956    -  1            II      -   3             86"   -   1
1959    -  3            IIa     -  15             88"   -  25
1962    -  1            III     -  15            107"   -   0
1964    -  3					 109"	-   8
1965    -  2
1966    -  2
1967	-  1				
1969	-  2		Vehicles by Country:
1970	-  3		UK		-   2
1971	-  1		Australia	-   1
1972	-  4		Canada		-   4
1973	-  7		Holland		-   1
1974	-  1		Israel		-   1
1975	-  1		South Africa	-   2
1981	-  1		USA		-  23
1982	-  1		Unknown		-   1

Interesting notes:   Almost half (48%) of our Land Rovers are named.  16 of the 35 vehicles are some 
shade of green.  

Keep your entries coming!  Only, 28 people have let me know about their rovers.  

jc

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From: VizionTeam@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 16:04:44 -0400
Subject: Tighten Lug Nuts!

I finally got my '90 RR back from the dealer today and couldn't believe how
the wheel rotation/balancing job got continually worse.

I thought maybe the tire pressures had not been adjusted front to rear and
stopped and checked those, everything OK.

I drove a little further and realized ever time I tried to move the wheel
even slightly to the right I had a terrible vibration (closer to a shudder).
 Finally I stopped and thought surely the lug nuts couldn't be loose?  I
checked them and sure enough they were so loose I could tighten them 3/4 of
the way by hand!  I got out the wrench and tightened them and then had words
with the service guys.  Can you imagine what 6,000 pounds of Rover going
75mph could do for Atlanta traffic with only 3 wheels!  

Glad I didn't have to find out!

Mike Hickman
On the Rove Again!

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 22:14:52 +0200
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: James Taylor on Series I's

Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@ridgecrest.ca.us> wrote:

> _Original Land-Rover Series I: The Restorer's Guide to all civil and 
>military models 1948-1958_ by James Taylor, Bay View Books, Devon, UK, 
>copyright 1996.  ISBN 1 870979 72 9.  128pp lots of color photos.  Hard cover.

>	I found this in a bookstore in Portland and read it on the plane ride
>back.  Lots and lots of Series I details.  I'd recommend it to anyone
>restoring a Series I.  Cover price is L 19.95 and I paid ~$35.

Very nice book, I can also highly recommend it. Beware of 107" S/W section, 
though - the car he wrote about is not well restored, the originals were 
different in quite a lot of details. He should have gone to Dunsfold and 
looked at theirs.
Regards
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:56:39 -0700
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Replacement Seats

At 10:13 AM 8/26/96 -0400, Merf Radio/WIEZ Newsroom wrote:

>Has anybody tried a high-back replacement seat for their Series Rover, =
;such as the ones listed by "TRAKKERS" or B.L.R.S.Limited", as listed in =
>the latest LRO.  --  or any other suggestions for seat replacements on a =
>Series.
;

I checked out the Trakkers while at the Billing meet.  The seat bottoms are
harder than the stock LR seat bottom.  and Inspite what the adds say, there
is no lumbar support.  The backs are very straight.  They were showing a
new design seat (same but upholstry applied differently).  The back
upholstry was only fastened at the top and bottom, so you could lift the
center and glue down some lumbar support.

british Pacific carries an aftermarket high back seat.  I checked it out
this last weekend at the Portland All British Field meet.  To me, it sits
better than the Trakkers anc I believe it costs less.

The was a set of seats from a Mitsibishi van installed in a Land Rover that
I tried out.  They seemed fairly good and had lumbar support.  I think it
sat about an inch higher than the stock.

I still think the new style defender seat is the most comfortable.  But it
all depends upon your size.

Bottom line,  I think you should sit in the seats before you buy them.
Also carefully check the cushon height.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 14:17:44 -0700
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Spin on oil filter: Pros & Cons???

At  2:58 PM 8/29/96 -0600, Rick Grant wrote:
>How does one go about adapting?  Is there something on the NA market or is a
>fabrication sort of thing?

Contact a UK Land Rover dismantling yard & tell them that you want an oil
filter adapter for a 2.5L petrol engine.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

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From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:57:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: James Taylor on Series I's

Peter has a comment on Original Land-Rover Series I: The Restorer's Guide to
all civil and military models 1948-1958 by James Taylor:

>Very nice book, I can also highly recommend it. Beware of 107" S/W section, 
>though - the car he wrote about is not well restored, the originals were 
>different in quite a lot of details. He should have gone to Dunsfold and 
>looked at theirs.

I find this book facinating. I got a copy at Barnes and Noble for $35 less
their hardback discount. It is a littly heavy on what color to paint parts,
etc. and I've found at least one mixup. I don't think it emphasizes enough
the variations in LRs built around the same time, although it is mentioned a
number of times.

One problem I have with this series of books is the use of "fully restored"
vehicles for most of the photos. While restored vehicles look nice, you're
looking at someone's interpretation of what "original" was, based on whatever
information they had, how closely they followed it, and how they balanced
originality vs. appearance.

Far better to find an vehicle which hasn't been messed with, even if most of
the paint is peeling around the dents, rust is fully evident, and some parts
are obviously missing. Far more will be original, and much easier to assess
what has been changed or is missing. For serious historical research
unrestored artifacts are much more valuable than restorations.

I continue to question the point of "full concours" restorations other than
as a game. But games are okay. However, by emphasizing "original factory
condition" the whole history of the vehicle can be lost. I'm glad several
unrestored vehicles were included.

Regards,
David Cockey

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 15:11:49 -0700
From: Bruce.Curtis@Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Curtis)
Subject: Vinyl stickers

Hi all, had a racing buddy of mine (who just happens to have a vinyl
printing machine) make up some reverse vinyl window stickers (i.e. for
the inside of the window) about 12" by 3" with Info@Land-Rover.Team.Net
on it.

Why Info@Land-Rover.Team.Net? Well, since lro@ represents only 202 (ok,
704 if you count the digest) of the total lists subscribers of 1273, and
the fact that i wanted to give a reply that includes info about the lists
as well as the web page. Also, since playground currently hosts a number
of unrelated activities (i.e. other then lro, with more to come) I needed
to setup some sort of a general solution. So, the info auto-reply app has
been setup to respond to either info or information @ any host address
hosted on playground with the appropriate info.

Of all the different combos he came up with I liked the green with
golden lettering, put it on the inside of right rear window of my
Disco, have gotten some good feedback from John/Jane Q. Public, and
got generaly good feedback from all at the recent PABFM.

I'll be at the Palo Alto CA meet (or is that Palo Alto leak) on the
8th, so check it out.

Comments welcomed, snail mail address to order to follow soon (after
a little time for discussion), the cost will be $15US (this includes
shipping in an appropriate container (i.e. one that will have a chance
at delivery unmangled)).

So, what do you'all think?

Later, Bruce.
'95 Disco
--
Bruce W. Curtis                     brutus@Eng.Sun.COM
SunSoft, Internet Engineering       http://www.badrc.org/~brutus
2550 Garcia Ave, MS MPK17-202       (415)786-5147
Mountain View, CA 94043-1100        FAX:(415)786-5896

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From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:20:00 -0400
Subject: Re: fibreglass springs

Chevrolet Corvettes were/are using fibreglass springs on the post '84 models.
 Weight savings mostly.  Seemed to work out on the '84 I had.

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

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From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:19:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Replacing bushes ala LRW

I have to agree with Dave, the Green Truck sounds and rides great.  

I had the privilege of helping Dave get things mostly buttoned up on
Saturday.  Dave has done a great job of getting a truck back together that
was "vandalized" by five of us in April.  I would have apprehension in doing
a frame over by myself, where I knew where everything came off and was
supposed to go back on.  He has taken a pile of parts disassembled by various
hands and gotten a decent truck back on the road.  Does it still need some
work, yes, but don't they all??

My hat's off to ya Dave.

Larry Smith
Chester, VA 

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Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:52:39 +1100
From: m.belik@uws.edu.au (Miroslav Belik)
Subject: Re: 109 Brake Bleeding

>   I installed new wheel slaves all around on a 1959 109 SW.  However
>because the rear wheels were the three bolt D mounting kind( which I was
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>either front or back brakes but not both. the master also does not seem to
>"return " when in the bleeding process.

>Rob Davis_Chicago

I had a similar problem on my G60 not long ago. I changed all the wheel
break cylinders all around and still no pedal. The shoes looked like they
had plenty of life in them so I figure that they did not need changing.
However, I then had a look at a new set and they were much thicker. The main
problem was that the previous owner had machined the drums too often and the
shoes were not sitting tightly enough. So I put new shoes on all around and,
I got a pedal.

This could be your problem. Check your internal diameter of drums to see if
they are not too big.

Cheers.
Mirek
SIII SI 1982 (Still not going)
Miroslav Belik                    Email: M.Belik@UWS.EDU.AU        
UWS, Macarthur               Phone: 018-028-708 or 61 2 823 9445
P.O. Box 555                     FAX:   61 46 203025              
Campbelltown, 2560                                                             
NSW      
Australia.
         

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:55:22 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Fuel tanks

WRT the thread on fuel tanks - coating and "sloshing" - I did it all.  
Several years ago during a major rebuild, the old tank had too many pinholes 
to be repairable.  So I bought a *new* one.  Painted the outside with four 
coats of Rustoleum, then three of undercoating goop.  Used a three step 
interior coating - clean, etch, then coat (MEK was the solvent).  Result: 
rust-through in five years instead of four.  Rust in inevitable with the 
"double bottom" tank.

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *---1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

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Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 02:11:02 +0300
From: nahari ofir <ofir_n@parker.inter.net.il>
Subject: Re: Restoration

>Peter Hirsch
>SI 107in S/W
Hello Peter

How is your restoration going ?
I checked those two 1951 s1 80".
The owner soled them to a junk dealer at 300$ (both). 
He toled me that he bought then a long time ago to get parts. Well... to his
own 
LandRover and it didn't fit.
What landrover you ask?
At his backyard lies a short red 1964 sII. Betwwen the tall grass I saw it
and fell
inlove... It was complete ex-military (he is the second owner).I asked and
he said it was good accept there are no brakes (Pegout 504 fitted pumps).I
setteld for 2k$ if it
runs.
My renulet4 battery won't budge the engine so we toed it with his toyota
pickup and
when we made the way back slowly (remember... no brakes!) the engine roared
and the 
stench of old petrol was in the air.
Tomorrow I'm going to make all the papers needed and tow it home !
the carburator it from a pegout 504 and the owner says its good for output
and fuel
economy.
also included the two halfshafts spares, complete original LR braking system
pumps,buster,lines ,pully and inverted T grill.
The frame is rusted at the front end (betwwen the bumper bolts and the bumper).
Didn't decided what to do next but first-
1. install the original braking system
2. battery
3. check all lights
4. get liecence and Insurance

my sI will have to wait for a while.
bye
ofir

you see thing turn out for the best, (2000$ is very cheap in Israel for any
kind of car) I'll let you know any more detalis when they come up.

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Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 18:21:20
From: CarDoctor@gnn.com (Robert Davis)
Subject: Re: 109 Brake Bleeding

Hi All,
 Well it has been suggested that the drums or shoes are warm to greatly to 
allow me to get a brake pedal but they are almost dragging to the point you 
can not turn the wheel but still no pedal.  The pedal will not pump up 
either which seem strange to me as well.

 
Rob Davis_Chicago

Failure is not an option
Not on my watch.......

1971 (88)  Treeweaver
1965 (109SW)  OX
1968 (109 three door)  Dad's toy (only the caretaker)

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Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 02:24:37 +0300
From: nahari ofir <ofir_n@parker.inter.net.il>
Subject: Re: Replacement Seats

At 01:56 PM 9/3/96 -0700, you wrote:
>At 10:13 AM 8/26/96 -0400, Merf Radio/WIEZ Newsroom wrote:

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 39 lines)]
>twakeman@scruznet.com
>I have mitsubishi seats on sIIa today.
let you know how it feels in a while
Ofir

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:20:48 -0700
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Portland count adendum

I counted 48 Land Rovers of different types camping in the field Sat night.

There were about half a dozen early fri evening with more cars coming in
through the night.

The 93 Rovers there for the meet Sat. is very small by UK standards but
very respectable by US standards.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

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Date: Wed, 4 Sep 96 00:43:34 UT
From: "David Lee" <DJFLee@msn.com>
Subject: Series III Brakes

Can anyone advise?
My 109 Series III Station Wagon has brakes (non-servo, single system) that are 
driving me crazy!
The first press of the pedal applies the brakes after considerable travel. If 
I press them a second time they are beautifully firm with no sponginess at 
all.
I know that brake pumping is a common LR problem but how do you cure it?
I've tried adjusting them at the drums. Bleeding them and pleading with them 
but to no effect. My next obvious step is the master cylinder, a step I'm 
hoping to avoid.
Does anyone have any ideas.

Dave Lee
djflee@msn.com

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From: "David J. Mercer" <merkin@sierra.net>
Subject: RE: riv-nut quandary...
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:14:31 -0700
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Take a bolt the same size as the riv-nut, with a nut screwed on the bolt =
insert the bolt in to the riv-nut screwing it in so thread is just =
coming out the back, tighten the nut up to the riv-nut put a socket or =
wrench on the bolt, and a wrench on the nut, turn the nut clockwise that =
should make the riv-nut compress. good luck!

----------

David Mercer
PO BOX 3713
Olympic Valley CA 96146
ph  916-583-4829
fax 916-583-4829
merkin@sierra.net
53 S1 80" IN REBUILD
57 S1 107" SW, FOR SALE
63 SII 88"
65 SII 88", FOR SALE
66 SII 88"
69&71 MB U900s
86 MB 280GE
88 SAAB 9000
  
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB99C7.EE68AE40

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From: "David J. Mercer" <merkin@sierra.net>
Subject: RE: SI 80" advice
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:00:58 -0700
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It depends on how much work you want to do to it. From personal =
experience they take a lot of work to restore and are pretty expensive =
compared to a 2 or 3 but in my opinion they are the most fun to drive =
and easiest to work on. As for the engine sounding like a oiled sowing =
machine, that is normal if the valves are not adjusted right. but really =
dose not sound to bad for the price. I would buy it, if for nothing ells =
just for parts or to put away for latter.

----------

David Mercer
PO BOX 3713
Olympic Valley CA 96146
ph  916-583-4829
fax 916-583-4829
merkin@sierra.net
53 S1 80" IN REBUILD
57 S1 107" SW, FOR SALE
63 SII 88"
65 SII 88", FOR SALE
66 SII 88"
69&71 MB U900s
86 MB 280GE
88 SAAB 9000
  
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB99C7.E8851CC0

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Date: 03 Sep 96 22:51:12 EDT
From: Rob Dennis <73363.427@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: The head came off!

>>      Copper gaskets are reusable, all the fibre gaskets I have seen 
     are the Genuine ones missing some holes.  If LR will pay for a 
     rebuild, I'll happily try one out.  I see no problem with copper
     gaskets.  Retorquing doesn't take that long.  Good practice... :-) <<

The last head gasket I put on was the fibre one. The 1st and 2nd cylinder
coolant passages were not completely blocked, but were basically reduced to
about a 3/8" hole. I seem to recall that this was done to allow the 3rd and 4th
cylinders cool better, because of their poorer airflow. Sounds a bit iffy to me,
but I have not had any overheating problems in the 2 years that it has been on.

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]     1996 Discovery
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 03-Sep-1996

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From: QROVER80@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 22:53:05 -0400
Subject: Re: towing

In reference to towing series rovers with Range rovers.

I have flat towed my 80" more than 1700 miles so far this summer with a 1971
Range Rover and had no trouble. However it's no speed demon ( 25 - 35 on
hills ) And I have had better tow vehicles. 
Be careful of a few things and you will be fine.
1) Check the tire pressure BOTH in the towed and towing vehicle. I found that
if the pressure in the rear tires of the Rangie fell below about 35 psi it
could get a little loose.
I like to put about 45 psi in the towed vehicle. This helps both with rolling
resistance and with the steering self centering.
2) If you go with a tow bar ( and I have put many thousands of miles on them
) check that beast OFTEN.  Listen for odd noises and funny bumps they are
probably trying to tell you something. 
3) Put a sign on the back. It just might save you as you go slowly up one of
those hills.
4) If you flat tow it the safest thing to do is to disconnect the drive
shafts, Or at least the back if the thing has free wheel hubs. I find that
the transfer case on rovers doesn't always want to stay in neutral. Some
times the only thing to do is to put the transfer case in high and leave the
trans in neutral. 
( I once towed one 45 miles in LOW range but that is another story ) 
Good luck
Rgds Quintin Aspin

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 21:19:38 -0600
From: hiner@roadrunner.com (Greg Hiner)
Subject: 1970 LR 88 For Sale

1970 LR 88
Southwest car whole life - very minimal cosmetic rust. Frame very solid.
Exterior and interior all original so nothing special but everything is
there and works (well okay the speedo sometimes works and few switches need
to be fiddled with). Mileage - busted - who knows. Standard hardtop - no
safari. Green. Overdrive. Major problems at this time: gearbox is good,
original IIa, stays in gears, all ratios good, noisy as usual - but the
seals are shot and it will pump oil out of the transfer box and into the
overdrive and gearbox and then out into moter nature when they get full
(can you say automatic frame oiler). Becomes problem only at high speeds
over long trip. Also starter motor has about had it. In addition the
parking brake is off and will need some new parts. Also last time I drove
it the running lights in the back were not working.

All parts mentioned as "new" are no more than 3 or 4 years old and have no
more than 10,000 miles on them.
Brake system - new master cylinder, rubber hoses, wheel cylinder, pads, and
drums.
All new tie rod ends.
Turner 2.25 engine with high performance unleaded head. Single barrell
Weber. New Ducelier distributor, water pump, fuel pump, alternator, and
Diehard battery. Jacobs Electronics electronic ignition (can be field
switched to standard system by changing one wire). All new hoses and engine
wiring harness.
New clutch master cylinder.
Front end had a light rebuild. Some new bearings, all new seals, Swivel pin
gaters.
Warn locking hubs.
Wheels have all been re-packed and seals and races have been replaced.
5 new Dunlop radials
Most of exhaust system is new.
New heavy duty gas tank - not OEM.

It looks okay and runs even better. I just don't have time for it any
longer and I hate to see it sitting.

7,000 US$

Respond by e-mail directly to me. I'm not on list.

Greg Hiner
Santa Fe, NM
hiner@roadrunner.com

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From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 23:38:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: portland rover

On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (john hess) wrote:

the
>steel caps along the top of the doors(?), rear bed and down the rear
>corners had been removed, stripped and galvanized!!!  (then put back on)
>It looked (IMHO) VERY NICE although I heard someone say it was a good
>display of someone having too much time on his/her hands.

IMHO, its not such a bad idea, even if you don't have so much time on your 
hands.  As a cost cutting measure, LR has been painting the cappings for quite a 
few years on the Defenders.  As a result, these areas are prone to corrosion.  
If you're interested in keeping your vehicle for a long perod of time and live 
in (or frequent) an area with high corrison, it could really alleviate some 
problems down the road.  The space between the cappings an the bodywork is ripe 
for corrosion.

Rgds,
Eric

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From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 23:38:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Vehicle database

On Tue, 03 Sep 1996, "John P. Casteel" <jcasteel@mindspring.com> wrote:

>> C. Marin Faure
>>         author, Flying A Floatplane

 Is you book an instruction manual or 
>a novel?  Sounds interesting.  Is it in bookstores now?

At the risk of being presumptious (and marginal as far as LR content is 
concerned)...Flying a Floatplane is an excellent instructional manual used by 
many in the process of getting their seaplane ratings.  Its also a great read 
for armchair float pilots like myself....seems a floatplane is the aeronautical 
equivalent of a Rover....go anywhere and the ultimate in Tread Lightly for truly 
remote wilderness areas!

Eric

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From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 23:38:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: towing

On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca> wrote:

>	If my 109 can tow another in its current immaculate shape, 

Ahem....immaculate?  Same as 'light' off-road, eh?

Eric

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From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 23:38:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: FW: Driveshaft phase

On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, "Tom Rowe" 
<WI.Center.for.Dairy.Research@calshp.cals.wisc.edu> wrote:

>Anyway, as I recall, not being able to crawl under a truck at the 
>moment, dual Cardan(?) CV joints in drive shafts have the two inner
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>drive shaft using our typical LR joint, which in a sense, is just a very 
>long CV joint.

Theoretically, then, you could put a Cardan type joint on both shafts and it 
wouldn't make a difference what the input or output angles are, no?  Seems thats 
why there is one on the front of the Stage One, couldn't get the axle and front 
output to line up properly.

Just thinking (dangerous, I know)

Eric

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From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 23:39:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Fuel tanks

On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) wrote:
 Painted the outside with four coats of Rustoleum, then three of undercoating 
goop.  Used a three step 
>interior coating - clean, etch, then coat (MEK was the solvent).  Result: 
>rust-through in five years instead of four.  Rust in inevitable with the 
>"double bottom" tank.

I'd recommend painting anything under the vehicle with a product called POR-15, 
its described as a "moisture cured urethane" and its tough.  I painted my axle 
casings with it and even the toughest rock hits have failed to dent it.  Just 
make sure you prep the surface properly.  POR-15 advertises in Hemmings.  I can 
get the phone number if anyone wants it.

Rgds,
Eric

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Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 23:10:04 -0700
From: osmicr <osmicr@uslink.net>
Subject: unsubscribe

John P. Casteel wrote:
> nahari ofir wrote:
> > ?,1951,I,80,Corajo,bronze green,Emek Hefer,ISRAEL,ur,Israel Border
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> plate on the nearside of the bulkhead (the latter were positioned inside
> the cab on later models)."

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Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 23:14:50 -0700
From: osmicr <osmicr@uslink.net>
Subject: unsubscribe

John P. Casteel wrote:
> nahari ofir wrote:
> > ?,1951,I,80,Corajo,bronze green,Emek Hefer,ISRAEL,ur,Israel Border
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> plate on the nearside of the bulkhead (the latter were positioned inside
> the cab on later models)."

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Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 21:16:56 -0700
From: "Christopher H. Dow" <dow@thelen.org>
Subject: Rubicon Trail, Transmission Noise, and Mr. Lucas

[The trip report part of this was already posted to the Mendo Recce list, so
subscribers to that list may wish to skip to the end...]

        This weekend I met my wife, kids (they went in the Disco) and some
friends at Union Valley Reservoir in the El Dorado National Forest in
Northern California (need I state the country?)  for camping and a bit of
what they call "wheeling".  This was my first time off-road in Rosencrantz,
my '65 SIIA 88" Station Wagon.  
        I spent last weekend painting the galvanized steel flat black, and
changing the roof color to white (the sun shield was already white).  The
bumpers looked (read on for the reason for using past tense :-) great, and
the top came out alright, too.  The black around the windshield certainly
looked better than the discolored galvanized steel, and not having the
exposed aluminum on the leading edge of top (I assume bugs did this--yuck!) 
made a huge difference.  On Tuesday, I put new Fairey locking hubs on, and on
Wednesday, my center console from Tuffy came via UPS and was installed that
night.  Before setting out on Friday morning, I crawled under the vehicle
and tightened up all the bolts I could see, topped off the diff and gearbox
fluids and set out.  
        The trip from Palo Alto to Union Valley Reservoir was only mildly
eventful.  When I last had the top off, I was unable to get the bent bolt 
on the left-rear corner back in, so I just left it off and ordered an new
(ostensibly straight) one.  Twice on the way up, my rear door came open.  
Given that this missing bolt was the only difference between this trip 
and when I drove the vehicle 1500 miles from Boulder, CO, to Palo Alto, CA 
after purchasing it, I can only conclude that its absence caused the top to
jitter, and that resulted in the door coming unlatched. 
        Saturday morning we got up and after eating, tightening loose bolts
again, and removing the sills (I was accurately warned that they would come
off either by my spanner or the rocks on the trail), we set off.  The convoy
was two highly modified Toyota FJ40 Land Cruisers (35" tires, lifts,
winches, etc.--one of the Cruisers was Conniston Green), one highly modified
Toyota 4Runner, one J**p (lifted to the sky), and Rosencrantz, whose only
mod is the 235 85 tires instead of 225 70s.  
        We stopped at Robb's store on the way to the trail, where we aired
down to 25 PSI and bought some provisions.   Then we were off to the famous
Rubicon.   Our plan was to do the first 1/4 of the trail (up to the Little
Sluice) and then bail out, and come back later with more preparation and a
little foreknowledge.  
        At first there were a few catches.  Rosencrantz kept stalling on the
steep slopes, and I wasn't sure what was up.  After adjusting the choke a
bit, that pretty much stopped happening, but one thing to keep in mind is
that on a difficult trail like that, it really is necessary to crank up the
hand throttle and use the clutch as the gas on the steep parts.  It's
expensive, but it works.  Besides, if you come off the Rubicon with the only
damage being the need for a new clutch, then you've done well.  
        The first difficult section saw the first body damage (sniff).  The
bumper I had painted one week before was bent in a bit at the first tricky
turn.  I didn't feel too bad, though, as the next five vehicle that went
through all had major fender damage, and one of them had serious frame
damage.  Mind you that these were highly modified J**ps and Toyota pickups,
and my Rover is essentially stock (not to mention 30 years old). 
        The two FJ40s were piloted by friends of mine who are identical
twins (and are, as a result, referred to in this group as "The Twins").  The
twins were quite concerned as they are cautious, responsible off-roaders,
and felt like they were somehow responsible for getting me into this.  I was
continuously pleased by the surprised looks on their faces as my Rover
rolled right through obstacles that their Cruisers choked on.  One thing to
remember here is that I paid WAY less than 10K for Rosencrantz, and they
have spent in excess of $30K (each) on their Cruisers.  I think one big
difference was that this terrain (the Rubicon Trail) is mostly granite in
the difficult areas, and I think the narrower tires made for a much better
grip.  According to everyone in the group, the axle articulation is
significantly better, too.  After the first hairy spot, we came to a steep
grade, where the Rover again shined.  I got down one steep transition so
well that I received a standing ovation from a group of people lunching
beside their J**ps, and was surrounded by them and bombarded with questions
when I stopped.  That was pretty cool.  The thing that amazed everyone was
how well a stock Land Rover did this stuff--especially given the cost
difference.
        There was one very steep and smooth section where I had to line up a
couple of times to get through, and in the bargain bottomed the
behind-the-wheel section of my rear quarter panel.  This piece already had a
dimple from a PO, but now it was even worse for the wear.  This particular
section was another place where the Rover managed much better than the
Cruisers, 4Runner, and J**p.  It is worth noting, however, that the lifts
these vehicles received did much to prevent their receiving any of the body
damage I got.  Also, the Cruisers had the sections of front bumper analogous
to what I damaged (the extreme outside) removed already.  
        We then went off to the shore of Loon Lake for lunch and a swim.  On
the supposedly uneventful way out, I managed to further mangle the same rear
quarter panel.  The Twins suggested that I simply cut it even with the top
of the rear frame member, and I'm considering it.   Especially since Bob
Bernard says it looks nice on his vehicle.
        All in all, I was quite happy with Rosencrantz, and I had a
great time.  Luckily no piece (except the sun shield) of Land Rover body
work costs that much, and I was planning on painting him anyway.

        The next day (Sunday), we wanted to drive to a place called Uncle
Tom's Cabin, but when we got there, there was a $10 cover to get in, so we
turned around and went back up the trail to a hill that looked fun to play
on.  On the way in, one of the Twins had climbed a portion of it with much
effort from his beautiful Land Rover Green (that's Conniston Green to us)
FJ40.   My wife, Leslie, seemed somewhat concerned and resisted my cajoling
her into trying it in the Disco.  For some reason, when we came back, she
decided to take the Disco through its paces.  When I jumped out of
Rosencrantz, I saw her climbing around on another part of the hill, and the
smile on her face was ear-to-ear.  I knew a monster had been created.  She
has the bug now.  I was then able to get her to try the aforementioned part
of the hill, and after consulting with the driver of the 4Runner (Tammy),
she picked a line, I crawled in the passenger seat (more for the fun than
for moral support) and she drove the Disco up the trail like it was Highway
101 and she was commuting.  The twins' jaws seemed to dislocate.  Leslie had
a great
time.  I then tried all the lines the others (including Leslie) had done,
and with one exception (mostly due to the fact that we hadn't aired down,
and the pressure at sea level was 35 PSI, so it was much higher at 5000
feet), the Disco ate it up.  So did the IIA.  The twins then had to try our
Rovers, and they were amazed--especially with the contrast in comfort
between a Disco 
with a CD changer, leather seats, and air conditioning, and their topless 
FJ40s.  
        The only mechanical failure on that part of the trip was the
transmission on one of the FJ40s.  I always thought that the reason why Land
Rovers and Land Cruisers were the vehicles of choice in remote areas was
that they were the best off-road vehicles, and Rovers were easy to fix while
Toyotas were reliable.  We found out that Toyotas are easy to fix.  

        Well, all this fun had to be paid for.  On the way home, my friend
and I smelled a fire while we had the lights on in a tunnel.  I noticed the
main beam light blinking, then smelled smoke.  We both thought we saw orange
light on the floor board coming from the direction of the dash panel.  When
we got through the tunnel, there was no evidence of fire, so we became
convinced it was a mass halucination.  During the last mile of the trip, the
transmission started making knocking noises while the RPMs were low for the
gear (i.e., starting off in first, unless I rev the you-know-what out of it,
etc.).  Then when I went to take it out to the store after dark, I
discovered that the headlamps would not come on.  Also, at 2:30 A.M. there
was a knock on our door, and a police officer informed my wife that our
"Jeep" was in the street.  That reminded me that one time while my friend
was driving, he took off and only realized that the transmission brake was
engaged after reaching 60 MPH.  I wonder if that has anygthing to do with
the transmission knocking noise? So my current issues are:
        a)   Transmission knocking (in all gears when under-revved)
        2)   No headlamps (#^%#^%#!! Lucas!)
        iii) Minor boddy damage

        I'm back in my other 4WD station wagon until (a) and (2) get sorted
out--a 1983 Toyota Tercel 4WD Station Wagon, that is.  It wouldn't be so bad
if only I didn't have to look at my wife's lovely Disco in the driveway
every evening.  So, any suggestions from the collected wisdom of this list
would be greatly appreciated.

Chris
'65 IIA 88" SW (which will be at the Palo Alto meet on Sunday--warts and all)
'96 Disco (which will fit right in whilst shopping at Stanford Mall on
Sunday--what a versatile vehicle!)

------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 23:19:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Place <dplace@SIRNet.mb.ca>
Subject: New springs fitted.

Well I must be born under a good star, because when I did the spring job 
on my 88 today, the bush on the drivers side came out with thumb pressure 
:-)  I hope the other side is as easy.  My system of using the threaded 
rod and a nut worked very well to replace the new bush.  I sprayed it 
with sylicone and thanks to whoever reminded me to freeze it first.  I 
did this as well and it pulled in with little problem.  For the first 
time since I have had this Rover, about 6 years, it will go two blocks 
without touching the steering and it sits level.  By the way, I learned 
something after almost 25 years and 8 Land Rovers.  I received two front 
spings from Mersyside and they had different part numbers but didn't say 
left or right.  I phoned England and told them of how the shop manual 
says one spring is stronger to compensate for the driver and petrol and 
all the stuff it mentioned.  The mechanic reminded me that in N.A. the 
petrol and driver are not on the same side.  He said what the book is 
trying to say is put the heavy one on the side where the driver sits 
regardless of the country.  Sure enough, when I put it this way, the 
vehicle is perfectly level and with me or with me and my son, about 135 
pounds, it still sits level.  Am I the only one who thought you put the 
springs on by left and right and not by load and that the load is not 
dependant on the British system of driver on the right.  For the two 
fellows, one from South Africa and one from Auz who E-mailed me for 
Merseyside Land Rover, I hope you experience was as good as mine.  All 
the parts were as spec and most people I have talked with are very 
surprised at the low price I paid.  The stuff I received came in Rover 
boxes so I suspect it is real Rover stuff.  So far I am pleased.  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 00:43:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: rovah@agate.net (John Cassidy)
Subject: Coming to the Cape

My wife and I are Rovering to Cape Cod this weekend for a friend's wedding.
We're staying in Dennis.  We're always interested in meeting our fellow
Roverheads, so if you're anywhere near this weekend, let me know before
Friday!

Cheers!  John

John Cassidy
Bangor, Maine USA

2 Wheels: Ducati M900, Velocette Thruxton, Moto Morini 350S
4 Wheels: 1995 Discovery, 1987 Range Rover, 1966 Series IIA

------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 22:22:45 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Spin-on Oil Filters, or How to spoil your vacation (long)

Okay, so Rachel and I were planning to leave late Saturday night after her 
high school chum's wedding shower.  Sure, it would be a late start, but we 
figured we could get to Sacramento for sure, and maybe even to Reno.  At 
least we'd be away, though, and that was what was important.  It was, after 
all, a holiday.

So we're in Rachel's wee mazda headed to San Jose or whereever it was the 
shower was taking place, and as we come across 92 to 101, I start to hear a 
whining noise.  I ignore it, but it only gets louder.  Rachel hears it too, 
and we pull off to see what we can see.  It's definitely related to vehicle 
speed, not engine speed, and seems to be coming from the rear wheels.  
Rachel had just had her brakes done, and so we figure it's something to 
do with that.  So we decide to skip the shower and head home.  

Rachel was going to seriously need her car once we get back (getting to and 
from school in panic mode) so we decided to wait until monday and get it 
looked at before we left.  (At the time, we didn't realize Midas was open 
on Sundays...)  

So Monday morning, at the ungodly hour of 6:30am, we show up at Midas's 
front door.  I followed Rachel in the Rover, which, of course, was packed 
with all our lives for the next 2.5 weeks.  So the Midas guys looked at her 
brakes, repacked the bearings, and said they were starting to wear, but 
could last a while, or she could get them replaced now.  Rachel, of course, 
told them and go ahead and do it.  So, while we're waiting, I figure I'll 
have them do an oil filter change, now that I have this fancy-dancy spin on 
oil filter adapter that I installed myself.

So they do that, and then Rachel and I decide to swing by Home Depot so I 
can pick up a few little doohickeys for the rover.  On the way, I begin to 
hear a knocking noise in the Rover's engine.  By the time we get there, 
it's pretty bad.  I call Scotty, but he's out, so Rachel and I walk over to 
the nearby mall and get some breakfast.

As we were finishing, Scotty called back, and he said it didn't sound good. 
 His initial thought was that one of the bolts that hold the piston on the 
crankshaft had broken.  So he said tow it up to his place and he'd take a 
look.  Rachel and I decided to drive it back to Midas, get her car, and get 
it towed from there, with her following in her car. 

Unfortunately, we didn't get that far.  We got as far as my place, and I 
decided it just sounded too terrible.  We parked the rover and called 
Rachel's brother to come give us a lift to Midas.  After picking up the 
Mazda, we called AAA from the car, hoping to cut down the time we'd have to 
wait.  As we pulled up in front my house, Rachel bumped the curb wiht her 
wheel.  I got out, and just started laughing.  Rachel got out, looked, and 
started laughing too.  On top of everything, she now had a flat tire.

So we call up her brother who brought over the spare she had saved from the 
last time she bought new tires (the Mazda only came with one of those fake 
spares) while I took the wheel off.  They then headed off to get th tire 
mounted and I sat in the Land Rover to await the tow truck.

Eventually, we got it to Scotty's who took a listen to it and gave us the 
bad news.  We weren't going anywhere in the Rover.  So we loaded up our 
clothes and the bare necessities in Rachel's care and headed home with our 
tail between our legs.  

So we ended up renting a car the next day, because by this time we didn't 
want to risk any cars we cared about to our bad karma, and eventually ended 
up hitting the road.  We decided to go North instead of East, and spend 
time in Oregon and Vancouver BC. 

So what does all this have to do with Spin on Oil Filters?  Well, The day 
after we left the Rover at Scotty's, he rung me up to tell me he'd found 
the cause of the problem.  It wasn't the piston bolts.  It seems a couple 
of cylinders had no oil in them.  I had put the filter adapter on upside 
down.  

The holes in the adapter are offset from center, and so when I put it on 
upside down, the oil couldn't get through the now blocked off holes in the 
engine, so some of the cylinders didn't get any oil when the new oil was 
put in after the oil change.

So the moral of the story is...

MAKE SURE YOU PUT THE OIL FILTER ADAPTER ON RIGHT SIDE UP!

For those interested, we did have an enjoyable holiday, in spite of the 
inauspicious beginnings, but we won't be bringing a rover to Palo Alto.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 10:21:15 -0700
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Re: New springs fitted.

David Place wrote:
> Well I must be born under a good star, because when I did the spring job
> on my 88 today, the bush on the drivers side came out with thumb pressure

What did you pay for the springs? were they galvanised? Anyone got
experiance of galvanising leaf-springs? Where is thius Merseyside place?
-- 
adrian redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
tel: +45 86 57 22 66  e-mail channel6@post2.tele.dk

1:	Series III 1976 109" D Pick-up
2:	Series III 1979  88" D Hard top (Icelander)
---------------------------------------------------
"Two SIII Land Rovers are more reliable than one!"
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 04 Sep 96 10:05:54 
From: "Jens Vesterdahl" <jve@phaseone.dk>
Subject: Re: The locks on SIII

Hi all.

Franz wrote:

>I think LR locks are just ment to keep kids from playing in the truck.

I couldn't agree more. One morning a few months back the door lock of my 109 was 
sticking, but not more than I could unlock it without getting suspicious. When I 
pulled out the key it turned out that I had inserted it upside down. No wonder 
it stuck a little. 
This led to some experiments: What can open an old LR lock. 
The answer is: anything that doesn't break when it's turned. 
The cheap cure: Don't leave anything of value in the car.
The expensive cure: Buy new locks!

I agree with Franz, that any "experienced" person that wants to get into the car 
will do so in less than a minute regardless of the condition of the locks.

Happy Rovering

Jens Vesterdahl
Copenhagen, Denmark

------------------------------
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From: "Mr Ian Stuart" <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 09:54:37 +0000
Subject: dispute regarding vehicular access to the Corrieyairack Pass

From:             Sandy Young <ayo1@cableol.co.uk>
** Please note - this is not an invitation for everyone to drive over the 
pass, we have to show restraint & courtesy during this dispute **

Please help save one of the best "green road" routes in Scotland.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Friend,

I write to ask for your immediate support to help resolve the long running
saga of the Corrieyairack Pass. The report posted on the web {URL:
	http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/Corrieyairack/
}summarises the situation.

This is what I would like you to do:

.	Write to both of the people named below.

.	State that you believe the Corrieyairack Pass has been obstructed.

.	Ask what action is being taken. (in other words you want a reply)

.	If you have crossed the Corrieyairack in a vehicle say so and give a date
(even approximate).

.	State you did not request permission nor did anyone try to stop you (if
true!)

.	Do not mention any Club. (You do not want one reply covering all
individual complaints.)

.	Don't blame anyone - we don't know who actually blocked it.

.	Include your full name, address, and postcode.

.	Be polite. (OK, I know you always are, but this is important.)

.	Please let me know that you have written, and what reply you received.

Thanks,

Sandy Young
Green Roads Officer
Scottish Land Rover Owners Club Ltd

G K Buchanan 
Procurator Fiscal, 2 Baron Taylor's Street, Inverness, IV1 1QL.

John Rennilson 
Director of Planning, Highland Council, Glenurquart Road, Inverness, IV3
5NX.
-----------------------------------------------------------
On behalf of Sandy Young...

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

However strong my opinions are, they are mine and no-one elses.

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 09:57:00 +0100 (BST)
From: "T. Stevenson" <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: The locks on SIII

>. A friend of mine drives a SIII and all the locks
>work (means: you can lock and unlock and they stay locked). But I can unlock
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>window (one of these LR fit later units) with a knive.
>I think LR locks are just ment to keep kids from playing in the truck.

        I locked my keys inside the LR at the weekend; a 90 with the later
flat type button locks rather than the stalk buttons. Using a piece of
baling wire it took me about 30 seconds to get in through the driver's door,
despite having had little training in stealing cars.
There is probably no way to secure a vehicle against determined thieves; I
had a LR stolen whilst staying in London (for the night!) about 10 years
ago. I had removed the rotor arm from the dizzy, *and* the battery  (slight
charging problem), and they still managed to nick it.

Tom

Thomas D.I. Stevenson        gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station, Millport
Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland KA28 OEG

------------------------------
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From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date:  4 Sep 96  6:26:40 EDT
Subject: Re: Soft shelled to Hard shelled

------------------------------
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