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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 08:07:26 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: riv-nut quandary...

Ok, list...

Does anybody know how to set a Rivet nut without a rivetnut tool? I know it can 
be done but I forget how.

thanks
Dave B

------------------------------

From: Alain-Jean PARES <Alain-Jean.Pares@InfoRoute.CGS.Fr>
Subject: French members
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 14:23:20 +-200

Sorry for the bandwidth, but I need an answer.

After looking at the mailing list for about a year, I never saw french members (or I can't remember).

If you exist, where are you ???

Alain-Jean PARES
Paris, FRANCE
88 serie III RHD under restoration before a 'passage aux mines'.

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------------------------------

From: bb@olivetti.dk (Bent Bohlers)
Subject: RE: riv-nut quandary...
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 14:43:34 +-200
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bobeck, David R.[SMTP:dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org] wrote:
Does anybody know how to set a Rivet nut without a rivetnut tool? 
I know it can be done but I forget how.

Try with a piece of steel plate min. 3mm, 
with a hole,that fits very tight around 
a bolt that fits the nut.
Place the rivet in the hole where it is supposed 
to be placed permanetly, fit the steelplate over 
it, place the bolt through the steelplate and 
into the rivet. Tighten the bolt as hard as 
possible without destroying the rivet.
Remove the bolt and the steelplate.

Fit what you needed in the rivet.

Happy Rovering
Bent Boehlers
86" 1955
110" 1983

------ =_NextPart_000_01BB9426.20B324E0

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 8:49:13 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Tyre Pressures...how high the moon!

'Light truck' tires are perfectly happy at 80 psi. Of course, you 
probably won't want to run them that high because you'll feel every 
pebble in the road. Go by your load; heavy load: high pressure, light 
load: low pressure. I wouldn't run them lower than say 35 or so. Don't 
treat these like passenger car tires. They won't wear at the center if 
you run 'em high because they are as thick as a brick. 
Off road you'll definitely want to let some pressure out so they'll get a 
better bite.
The sidewall does carry information about maximum inflation and load 
carrying capacity, along with speed rating, and carcass construction and 
whether the tire can be regrooved or not > it's like a frikkin' library!

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 20:29:14 +0000
From: ewhite2@ALPHA2.CURTIN.EDU.AU
Subject: Kangaroo-bars vs bull bars: A working definition!

Hi,

 I note from the British LRO mag the misuse (!) of the terminology for 
 the protection bars on the front of some vehicles. As expected,
 the Bull Bar was designed to fend off rather large beasties 
including cows, bulls, steers, large kangaroos, sheep etc. These bars as 
viewed from the side, angle forward from above and below the bumper line, 
sort of like a snow plough. Most large trucks carry bull bars. While 
hitting a bull still cam cause substantial damage, these bars can fend 
off roos and goats, sheep etc., without any drama.

On the other hand the roo bar is flat and less substantial and is 
intended to reduce the dmage from kangaroos to the point of keeping the 
vehicle drivable.These bars are of a lighter construction, normally 
alloy, and can be made to fit most cars. Most country people use them as 
night driving at 110 kph in the country often brings one into contact 
with kangaroos.Clearly there are areas where this is more likely to 
happen,but you get the picture.  

I drive heavy haulage vehicles from time to time,in Western Australia. 
Hitting roos can be a very regular occurence especially at night and around 
dawn and dusk.Often kangaroos will gather at roadside to eat the fresh 
vegetation and to gather moiture in the form of dew from the road 
surface. I have on rare occaisions seen hundreds of these animals along a 
strectch of road, although this has been in more remote areas such as up 
north and along the nullabor plains (Divides West from East,{desert 
srubland}) 

Most roos become disorientated or blinded by vehicle lights 
and either dont move or jump into the way. Further north of here (Perth 
Western Aust) about 600 mile up, there is more possibility of hitting 
cattle as the highways pass through the cattle and sheep stations.

And then there is the nudge bar which is little more than a rabbit bar as 
anything larger would bend it! These are just a simple bar that comes up 
from the subframe or chassis to stretch accross in front of the radiator 
and down again. Good for hanging spotlights off and minor parking scraps.

While it may all sound rather bloodthirsty, bull bars in particular do 
indeed save millions of dollars and allow road transport to move through 
such areas with less downtime. A semi trailer, or "Road Train" of a prime 
mover and tow forty foot triallers totalling at anything up to ninety ton 
is a formidable object that simply cannot stop or alter course in time 
even at fairly slow speed. Distances involved, for some interstaters, of 
over six thousand kilometres, round trip, so time is also of the essence.

Anyway I hope that has been of some interest.

Regards

Christopher.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 9:26:28 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Kangaroo-bars vs bull bars: A working definition!

I can just imagine the truck-stop banter as to who rolls in with the most 
gore dripping from the front of his rig.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 09:37:36 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Tyre Pressures...how high the moon!

>>>'Light truck' tires are perfectly happy at 80 psi.

Given the right weight...

>>> Of course, you 
probably won't want to run them that high because you'll feel every 
pebble in the road. 

As if you won't anyway...

>>> Don't 
treat these like passenger car tires. They won't wear at the center if 
you run 'em high because they are as thick as a brick.

All the more reason why they would wear at the center. If the tire is so thick 
that the weighgt of the vehicle can't affect the footprint, which is what you 
are saying, than the outside edge would cetainly ride off the ground when it's 
inflated too high, hence causing the inside edge to be the only part in contact 
with the road surface...Next you'll tell us they won't wear at the edge if you 
run 'em too low??
 
>>>Off road you'll definitely want to let some pressure out so they'll get a 
better bite.

Uh, yeah. Takes a LONG time to air down from 80 psi...:-)

>>>The sidewall does carry information about maximum inflation and load 
carrying capacity, along with speed rating, and carcass construction and 
whether the tire can be regrooved or not > it's like a frikkin' library!

Sounds like gud reedin'...

Dave
The Big Deflator

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:45:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ray Harder <ccray@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: CA Smog Check II: RIght WIng Hot Air (fwd)

Sincerely,

Ray Harder 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:53:24 -0700
From: William Abbott <wabbott@mtest.teradyne.com>
Subject: CA Smog Check II: RIght WIng Hot Air

	For those who have seen/heard the right-wing KGO radio anti-
Smog Check II stuff, here's the *actual* state limits & the study data 
from surveys of actual cars on the road that support the new limit.

	Average of actual vehicles	Smog Check II standard
	<1100 rpm	>2500 rpm	<1100 rpm	> 2500 rpm
Year	HC ppm	CO %	HC	CO	HC	CO	HC	CO
66-67	212	2.3	182	1.7	700	5.5	600	4.5
68-70	192	2.3	163	1.7	650	5.5	600	4.5
71-74	147	1.8	123	1.4	550	5.0	400	4.0
75-80	60	0.3	52	0.5	220	2.0	180	1.7
81-83	42	0.1	37	0.2	120	1.5	150	1.5
84-86	37	0.1	31	0.2	120	1.0	150	1.2
87-92	29	0.1	20	0.1	120	1.0	140	1.0
93+	17	0.0	12	0.1	100	1.0	130	1.0

	I got these numbers from the Consumer Information Center
in Sacramento. 1-800-952-5210  I'm not sure if the 2500rpm numbers 
are on the chassis dyno or just reving up with the transmission in neutral. 
 
	You can see where catalytic converters were introduced in 
mid-70s, and then lambda systems (Oxygen sensors) in the mid-eighties,
in the actual data. 

	"Gross Polluter" levels are another 250-150 ppm HC and
2.5-1.5% CO, larger value for earlier cars, lower value for newer
cars. 

	Contrary to reports that cars older than 4 years are targeted
in these numbers, you can planly see that the actual performance of
the average car 10 years old is good enough to pass the 1993+ standard.
In fact, an average car with a catalyst, all the way pack to 1975, will
pass the current car spec. My '70s actual numbers were

	1051 rpm	2602 rpm
	HC	CO	HC	CO
	195ppm	4.82%	26ppm	0.17%

at last inspection- a bit high for CO at idle, in good shape otherwise. 
My '71 914 (1.7 DJet) used to be the same- high CO at idle. But always
passing. New limits for my single cab are 50ppm tighter for HC and .5%
tighter for CO under the new system.

"Hot Talk" is more like Hot Air, imho. Or maybe they find math too hard.

	:)

	Bill

------------------------------

From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@rad1.pcmail.ingr.com>
Subject: RE: Rover duds
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 09:43:00 CDT

I was on an outing with the R.O.V.E.R.S. club (Philly/Wilmingtion area)   
and a ser II 88" owner had a t-shirt that was black with white writing.   
 The writing was in "script" and said Lucas Prince of Darkness with a   
smaller font bellow touting Lucas reliability.  Pretty scary to see a   
shirt like that show up at a rally...

Douglas "Lucas Besieged" Boehme

(my D90 is in the shop for Lucas problems...  The best one being that I   
can't operate the fan at speed, but when I come to a complete stop, it   
works.  Maybe it's too windy at speed for the dark lord to give   
permission for fan operation...:) :) )

 --------------------------

 ----------
I found the best Land Rover T shirt ever here last week.  It is dark
Rover green with the word Simple on the front. All the writing is in
the Land Rover yellow used on the old signes.  On the back is a very
fine Ser IIA 88 with no top.  It has the lamp guards, side step and even
a pair of little lift rings on the bumber.  It is not just a line
drawing, but a full art rendition  of the IIA.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 10:19:10 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Tyre Pressures...how high the moon!

Dave B sez...
All the more reason why they would wear at the center. If the tire is so 
thick 
that the weighgt of the vehicle can't affect the footprint, which is what 
you 
are saying, than the outside edge would cetainly ride off the ground when 
it's 
inflated too high, hence causing the inside edge to be the only part in 
contact 
with the road surface...Next you'll tell us they won't wear at the edge 
if you 
run 'em too low??

This assumes we are talking about bias ply truck tires which is what 
these Olympics in question seem to be.
Modern steel belted truck radials won't "balloon" when inflated to 80 
lbs. , according to the tire guys where I bought them. The sidewalls are 
extra thick and the steel belts keep the footprint flat. I'm not saying I 
know anything about tires, I'm just going on info provided to me when I 
bought my BFG All Terrains. I asked a lot of questions 'cause they cost a 
bundle. After fishing around for six months I have become pretty 
comfortable with 45 lbs in them.
The best advice I can give is to be a pest when it comes to buying tires. 
Ask the salesman everything you can think of, no matter how ridiculous 
your questions may seem. "My mother in law weighs about 150 lbs., if I 
have her in the passenger seat and two dogs in back and I'm carrying all 
her luggage from the airport...."

Bill Adams, aka "Hambutt"
3D Artist/Animator

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 09:51:06 -0500
From: Fred Ellsworth <fellswor@camb-lads.loral.com>
Subject: Tranny Woes

Hi All,
It had to happen- I brag about muscling out a transmission all by myself
and a week later...

I'm 100 yards from work this morning, accelerating out of a traffic circle,
put the truck in third gear- and nothing happens.  1st works, second works,
but 3rd and 4th don't.  I can feel/hear the gears grinding but they won't
engage.  This is bad.  I need to move this week, and at this late date have
_no_ hope of finding a rental truck anywhere in greater New England until
sometime late next week.

Right now I'm just planning on moving slowly, but if anyone has any bright
ideas for a quick fix I'll be forever grateful.

Thanks,
Fred

PS Please reply to me personally as I'm on the digest and time is short...

PPS  I have to add that the truck performed flawlessy on a 600 mile
(topless) roundtrip to Maine this weekend.  Got back at 11pm last night and
it broke down this morning.  At least it has good timing.

===========================================================================
 Fred Ellsworth                                Phone: (617) 441-2014
 Lockheed Martin ADS                           Fax:   (617) 441-2059
 50 Moulton Street                             e-mail:
 Cambridge, MA  USA                            fellswor@camb-lads.loral.com
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:03:56 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: The end of my dipstick

Hi all,

Just curious, how much oil does it take to fill from the low mark to the
full mark on the 2.25l engine? Seems like it's just about 2 quarts (a little 
more). Is that what others find?
-- 
Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, MD 21020
dunsmo19@us.net

------------------------------

From: newsroom@acsworld.net (Merf Radio/WIEZ Newsroom)
Subject: Tyre Pressure
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:31:22 -0400

David Scholes wrote:

>My SWB SIII has 750 x 16 Olympic Trojan tyres on it. They're described =
on
>the tyre wall as a light truck tyre. The tyre wall doesn't actually =
give a
>recommended inflation pressure. Any suggestions as to the best pressure =
for
>on-road use?

The basic spec in the Haynes manual I have for a SWB series LR calls for =
25psi, and that's worked very well as a starting point for my 88".

(though I was thinking of bumping-up to at least 35, to keep the fronts =
from rol off the rims at the next Solo I auto-cross!   -  "No, that's =
NOT my tow-car" ;-)

Nils Frederiksen

No longer stuck in Central PA,
thanks to my "Lan'Grover"!
1970 sIIa, 88" 
*name change courtesy of my 3yr old...;-)
 
    ----------- 
   /___|___\
  |O ii|||||ii O|
 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
  (_) '''''''''' (_)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 12:01:49 -0400
From: cmw@tiac.net (cmw)
Subject: 2.6 Parts out there?

Hi all.

I'm looking for a standard sized piston for my 2.6 liter engine.  The wrist
pin bore on one of mine is too worn for reasonable refitting.

If anyone has one kicking around or a suggestion on a source (other than the
big three in US LR parts) I'd like to hear it.

Because I'm on the Digest I didn't see anything but the subject of "great
deal in corrosion treatment -US" or some such.  What was it??

Thanks
Chris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Christopher Weinbeck       Office Logic, Inc.      V (508) 392-0288
   _______                  7 Littleton Road        F (508) 692-0897   
  |__][_[_\__               Westford, MA 01886    Computerization for 
  |___\_|_]__]                                      the healthcare
    (o)    (o)  '69 109" RHD OD 2.6 Dormobile        professional        
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@aae.wisc.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:21:15 -5
Subject: Re: The end of my dipstick

Nate Dunsmore asks:
Just curious, how much oil does it take to fill from the low mark to the
full mark on the 2.25l engine? Seems like it's just about 2 quarts (a little 
more). Is that what others find?
-- 
As I recall, 1 qt from low-full
2 qts from min-full

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@aae.wisc.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:23:22 -5
Subject: Re: 2.6 Parts out there?

>I'm looking for a standard sized piston for my 2.6 liter engine.  The wrist
>pin bore on one of mine is too worn for reasonable refitting.
-
Try any automotive machine shop that handles AE Engine parts. They 
used to import LR engine parts to the US.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Neil Jason Steinhagen" <njsteinh@eos.ncsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 12:55:34 -0400
Subject: Land Rover Diesel

Hello All!

Being a Landy virgin, I must call upon the numerous experts that seem to be in
abundance in this mailing list.

I have been offered a Series IIa Diesel with a spare engine and gear box.  The
g-box is a III and the one in the vehicle is a military box (had a hydraulic
winch that was sold for $1000.)  He told me that the spare engine runs, and
once I change out the g-box, I'll get about 60 mph.  The Rover is in fair
shape.  Definately used as a work vehicle.  No back seats.  Imported direct
from the UK so it's still RHD (which I prefer anyways).

Please give some pros and cons about diesels.  The asking price is $4500.
 Comment on the price if you would like to also.

Thanx a million!

Neil Steinhagen.  Raleigh, NC

-- 
Neil Jason Steinhagen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 13:02:58 -0700
From: Heather Dixon <hldixon@top.monad.net>
Subject: Re: Tranny Woes

Hey Fred, that'll teach you to move when all the college kids come to 
town!

Heather

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 13:20:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Land Rover Diesel

On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Neil Jason Steinhagen wrote:

> Please give some pros and cons about diesels.  The asking price is $4500.

	For diesels try: http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/FAQ.4.Diesel.html
	
	Then ask further questions... :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 13:35:41 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Land Rover Diesel

Run, don't walk, to your nearest checkbook. I can wholeheartedly 
recommend diesel power (and having a spare! you lucky SOB ). These 
engines will not let you down, assuming you keep the oil and filters 
regularly changed and use good quality diesel. 
Off-road a diesel is unsurpassed for reliability and low-end grunt. Not 
to mention that they won't crap out at the sight of water. In fact you 
can start and run this truck in 30" of standing water. You don't need an 
electric system to operate it; your batteries may be dead, but your Rover 
won't be! They roll-start in about 5 yards. Fuel mileage is about 25-30 
MPG.
As far as the negative factors go, the diesel is difficult to start in 
cold weather unless you fit a tank-type engine heater. They are somewhat 
noisier than a gas engine Rover. They have two 6 volt batteries (to feed 
the massive starter motor) so you have to do double battery maintenance. 
Oh, did I mention the aroma?
Carefully check the frame before you do anything!

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator

------------------------------

From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@rad1.pcmail.ingr.com>
Subject: Diesels better than V8s?
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 14:21:00 CDT

With all the talk of diesels being "great"...  I have a few questions   
(possibly dumb questions):

It seems to me that a Diesel engine would be better suited for the   
Discovery and the D90/D110.  Am I wrong in this assumption?  What might   
have been the reasoning for fitting the NAS vehicles with V8s instead of   
diesels?  (outside of the notoriously bad diesel servicing going on at   
many dealerships - I'm referring to other makes of automobiles such as   
VW, Audi, Mercedes.)

Douglas "Roverless" Boehme
(I'm still driving the F*** Taurus while waiting for my 90 to be   
repaired.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 20:56:48 +0200
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Waxoyl and Paddock springs

David Place <dplace@SIRNet.mb.ca> wrote (among other things):

:Also our local paper had an article saying that Waxoyl went into 
:receivership and is now based in Florida. The original was Waxoyl 
:Warranty Inc. of Cincinnati Ohio.  The new owner of the product is 
:Safeguard Distributors of Florida.  Seems our consumers bureau issued a 
:warning on them because they were not living up to warranty claims.  One 
:good note is that someone in Winnipeg got a settlement from them for 
:$1200 for rust damage.  Mark Perry who works for a newspaper might be 
:able to get the wire reference on the article if anyone wants to know 
:more about the company and the problems.  (Mark, it was in Mike Ward's 
:Column)  

AFAIK, Waxoyl is made by Hammerite, and they certainly did not go broke. 
Looks like their (former) distributor in the USA went belly-up. Anyway, the 
product must be good since apparently a new distributor jumped into the fray 
right away.

:Has anyone tried Paddocks in England for springs.  They want 18 pounds 
:for them and Merseyside says 24 pounds.  Not a bad saving even with air 
:shipments makeing it 3 times the quoted price, that is only about $100 a 
:spring delivered in Canada.  Dave VE4PN
   
One of the few Series owners I know here in Vienna went thru two sets of 
front springs from Paddocks in the Sahara some years ago. He replaced the 
sagging front springs on his 88 SIIa before going on vacation, and took 
another pair along as spares. The first pair broke somewhere in the middle 
of the sands, and the other pair just made it back to Europe before giving 
up its ghosts. So then he got custom-made Austrian steel springs for about 
1,100 ATS, equivalent to about 110 USD, and has since taken them across the 
Sahara twice without a problem. Now of course P. might have changed their 
supplier since then, and you may never go to the Sahara, but generally 
speaking you gets what you pays for.
No recent experience in store
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 20:56:54 +0200
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Series I Axle Inquiry

Ronald -
>    Recall the rear axles on the Series I which displayed a flat centre 
>hub in lieu of the dust cap an nut assembly (resembling the front axle) 
>which eventually replaced them?

Called a semi-floating rear axle, i.e. if the axle breaks the wheel can fall 
off because it is not fastened to the hub but to the axle directly. Much 
more common than the fully-floating on S I's.

>    It appears the shaft, bearing and casing are all pressed together in 
>some wonderful albeit mysterious fashion. Since I now have need of 
>replacing one of these bearings any insights as to the correct procedure 
>would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

You need to press out the bearing housing, and the securing collar. 
Replacing that will be a problem, since due to tolerances you will have to 
try a few. If you have access to a fax, I can fax you the relevant pages 
from the workshop manual.
Regards
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 27 Aug 96 12:10:25 MST
Subject: Can of worms - input

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist ~ S.R.P. ~ AM/FM - Graphic Records
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
John, you asked for information on series vehicles, here goes:
Vehicle #1
=======================================
  VIN - 26406309H
  Year - 1970
  Model - 109 IIa
  Name - Usually "white rover" unless she's being fussy, then you don't
         want to know!
  Color - Tan (limestone?) (or is it sandstone?) Top, bottom, wheels.
  Location - Arizona
  Current - DD (normally my DD is a '87 RR, but it's currently dead)
  dealer of orig purchase - unknown, but speedometer is in Kilo's,
                            and it's left hand drive.
  Notes - Safari top, 5 door, deluxe bonnet, tire mount on bonnet and r-door,
          rear wiper added, overdrive, 11 pass. station wagn, rear heater,
          deluxe interior, 20 Gal SS tank, everything works.
  e-mail - debrown@srp.gov

Vehicle #2
==========================================
  VIN - 24442498G
  Year - 1971
  Model - 88 IIa
  Name - (none yet)
  Color - red (poppy?)
  Location - Arizona    Plate: LION B8
  Current - dr (drivable after next weekend, when I replace the seat box.)
  dealer of orig purchase - Supposedly in Arizona
  Notes - Just a trail truck, military 1 ton shackles, white spoke wheels
          headlights in the breakfast, Toyota Lnd crsr rear folding seats,
          Rancho 5000 shocks, future engine transplant.
  e-mail - debrown@srp.gov

I'm sure there are several people who would be interested in the final
data group. Please share what you come up with.

Thanks, Dave Brown

#=======#         _________         "What lies behind us and what lies
|__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___    before us are tiny matters compared
| _|  |   |_ |}  \__ - ____ - _|}  to what lies within us."
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                     Ralph Waldo Emerson

------------------------------

From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:23:11 -0400
Subject: No LR Content Windows Humor

FWIW

The Top Reasons Dogs Don't Use Computers

1.  Can't stick their heads out of Windows '95
2.  Fetch command not available on all platforms
3.  Hard to read the monitor with your head cocked to one side
4.  Too difficult to "mark" every website they visit
5.  Can't help attacking the screen when they hear "You've got mail"
6.  Fire hydrant icon simply frustrating
7.  Keep bruising noses trying to catch that MPEG frisbee
8.  Not at all fooled by Chuckwagon Screen Saver
9.  Still trying to come up with an "emoticon" that signifies tail-wagging
10.  Three words:  Carpal Paw Syndrome
11.  'Cause dogs ain't geeks!  Now cats on the other hand...
12.   Barking in the next cube keeps activating YOUR voice recognition
software
13.  SmellU-SmellMe still in beta test
14.  SIT and STAY were hard enough, GREP and AWK are out of the question
15.  Saliva-coated mouse gets mighty difficult to manuever
16.  Tr0{g0 DsA[M, bN HyAqR4tDc Tgr0o TgYPmE WeIjTyH P;AzWqS
       (Too Hard To Type With Paws)

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:03:09 -0700
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Re: Land Rover Diesel

Neil Jason Steinhagen wrote:
> Hello All!
> Being a Landy virgin, I must call upon the numerous experts that seem to be in
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)]
> --
> Neil Jason Steinhagen

As a european Land Rover Owner I can't advise you about US prices - but
I can give you the benefit of 12 years experience of owning two Land
Rovers - 1 x 109" 1976 SIII Pickup, 1 x 88" 1979 SIII HT Icelander, both
diesels.

Both vehicles are used in my business, I am a film producer, and use the
cars as unit vehicles, they are noisy, draughty, uncomfortable, and
electrically a mystery, but they get a crew and its gear through
anything, to anywhere, and back (usually!). In the summer my staff
complain like mad about my preferance for the old fashioned english
creations, in the winter they are keen to borrow a Land Rover to be sure
of getting there and back.

I am lucky enough to have a large indoor garage so that all our cars can
be inside all the year round, except when on the road. This means that
we seldom have start problems in the winter. My travels in Greenland,
Iceland, Northern Norway, and other arctic regions have proven the
problems of early morning sub-zero starts, even a thinner oil may freeze
to the consistency of butter toffee. I have seen many LR's with a
heating element inserted into the motor block, connected to mains power
overnight, to maintain oil and water fluidity and an easy start next
day. many Land Rover owners here in denmark have fitted these
inexpensive kits.

The diesel motor is very relaible, and can give mileage approaching 22 -
28 m.p.g. IF the engine is well tuned. Until 6-7 years ago, I sent my
LR's to the local LR genius (a guy named Marius Bertelsen whose workshop
is one of the finest for LR owners in Denmark and whose spare/used parts
collection is certainly the largest!) The cost of workshop repairs meant
that many months passsed between servicing, usually waiting until
something was wrong. After many years my mechanic convinced me to learn
more about the LR, and equipped with the manuals (Haynes and Official LR
Workshop version) I have learnt to handle most repairs myself. Regular
tuning and maintenance is the key - every month the rocker-cover comes
off and the valve-timing is adjusted, the pump timing is checked and the
engine is washed with a high pressure spray! (Followed by a liberal
coating of WD40) Unlike most Land Rovers, mine rarely leak oil, water or
any other fluid over the workshop floor, and most daily checks and
adjustments can be undertaken in a white shirt. Since I learnt to di
this work myself, and have bought the necessary tools, I have had 3
years without any motor breakdowns or failures, no starting problems,
and greatly reduced electrical problems. Fuel economy is at a maximum
and exhaust smoke is at a minimum, and acceleration (never the Land
Rovers strong point) is better than ever.

Because of the price-differentials some years ago between vehicle diesel
and domestic heating oil, we have experimented with DHO as a fuel.
Adding a small percentage of alcohol or petrol helps in the winter,
freezing diesel (especially if it includes frozen water) is the worst
enemy of the Scandinavian winter - 70 m.p.h in -15°Centigrade weather
gives an effective temperature of about -60°C at the fuel tank and
engine sump underside!

I have never driven a petrol LR, but have heard of the horrors from
others - starting problems, fuelfinance problems!

I have driven around and accross Iceland on a film job, 6800 kilometers
on unpaved roads and mountain terrain - including many trips through
rivers and sea water. The 30 kilometer journey across the sea bed
between the mainland and the island of Ingolfshøfdi, where the sea is
always between two and 4 feet deep, is happily (!) encountered with the
standard 2.25 diesel motor, not subaqua add-ons, but baggage and camera
on the roof for safe keeping!

If you attempt such a drastic journey, ensure a good undersidfe wash and
paint afterwards - avoid underseal compounds and mastics as they merely
seal the rust in, and ensure that the chassis rusts from the inside
outwards and not opposite. Cleaning old underseal and curing sealed rust
is almost impossible, washing and painting takes a day. We strip the
bodywork once a year for a full paint job, it takes a weekend per
vehicle and they look like new (almost) all year.

I can recommend deisel - not by objective comparison, but by subjective
experience!

Good luck (check the electrics!)

adrian redmond

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 16:14:32 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Diesels better than V8s?

In order to meet federal standards, Land Rover would have had to totally 
rework the TDI to conform. Needless to say, they weren't about to go to 
the trouble for a few 110s and 90s. Therefore, the old Buick got the nod.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:39:47 -0400
Subject: Re: riv-nut quandary...

Dave wants to set some Rivnuts:
>Does anybody know how to set a Rivet nut without a rivetnut tool? I know it
>can 
>be done but I forget how.

The basic idea is to run a bolt with a nut on the bolt into the reivnut which
is set in place, then tighten the nut to "collapse" and set the rivnut. But
life isn't that simple because the rivnut will try to turn with the nut. If
you just put a washer in between then the whole works turns. So you need
something in between which you can keep from turning. Either a length of
steel with a clearance hole for the bolt, or the published idea of drilling
the threads out of a nut one size larger, and using a wrench to keep it from
turning. BTW, you need to deal with 3 items at once, the bolt which is held
still, the nut being tightened on the bolt to set the rivnut, and the
washer/plate/nut which is held still to keep the rivnut from turnning. The
recommendation for a 5/16 Al rivnut is 2 1/2 turns on the nut. It is possible
to strip them (I know).

David Cockey

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 17:08:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Land Rover Diesel (Gearbox incompatibility)

Neil has been offered a LR:

>I have been offered a Series IIa Diesel with a spare engine and gear box.
>The
>g-box is a III and the one in the vehicle is a military box (had a hydraulic
>winch that was sold for $1000.)  He told me that the spare engine runs, and
>once I change out the g-box, I'll get about 60 mph.

SIII gearboxes are not directly interchangeable with SIIA boxes. The clutch
operating mechanism is completely different and incompatible. To put a SIII
box in an SIIA LR: an SIIA input shaft and primary gear need to be installed
in the SIII box, and then the SIII box is installed using the SIIA
bellhousing and clutch withdrawal mechanism. See Porter's LR restoration book
for slightly more info. The alternative presumeably is it swap in the entire
SIII box with bellhousing and clutch mechanism, then reroute the clutch line
to the other side and fabricate brackets as needed. Not sure about clearances
and any other problems. For some reason this in not real common.

Considering the apparent non-running status of this vehicle, and the
incompatibility of some of the potential drivetrain, I'd regard this as a
project rather than a soon to be daily driver. But then I'm pesimistic (by
experience).

David Cockey
Rochester, MI 48306

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 17:16:43 -0500
From: "John P. Casteel" <jcasteel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Can of Worms

Ok,  I have quite a lot of support from the list to start this series-lr database.  I appreciate the kind 
words and suggestions.  First, I am changing the list from a North American only to a list-wide database 
but, as you will see, I have added a column so as to locate by country.  Second, for those of you who 
asked,  I will keep the list current on the information obtained.  All of the information is optional 
except for the VIN.  What this means is that if you don't want to leave your e-mail address, for instance, 
I can still use the other data you send but I WILL NOT use your address in my database.  

My interest in this information is varied.  First, I am interested in how many series LRs are still 
considered daily drivers in North America.  Second, I am interested in the location and names of the 
original dealers in NA.  Third, I think it will be good fun and practice for my old programming skills.  
Fourth, there is interest on lro-net and I have the skills to do this.

When you send the information, please send it in the following format.  For each vehicle you will use a 
seperate line.  Each "thing" is seperated by a comma.  Do not use commas in the notes section.  If there 
are multiple bits of information in the notes then seperate them by a semi-colon.  If you have already 
sent the infomation then you don't need to resend.  If you have multiple vehicles seperate them with a 
carriage return.

If you know of land rovers and can find out their VIN please send that information too.  I am sure that 
many of your club members do not have Internet access but that they would like to be included.
________________________________________________________________________

Format needed:
VIN,year,type,size,name,color,current location,country,shape,original dealer,e-mail,lro-net,notes

meaning:
VIN - vehicle identification number
year - year as registered
type - I, II, IIa, III
size - 86,88,109,107 etc
name - what have you named your vehicle or none
color - the current color of vehicle
current location - ie Colorado
country - ie  USA, UK, Germany
shape -   -  choose one of the following
                                  dd - daily driver
                                  dr - drivable
                                  ur - under restoration
                                  pc - parts car
                                  dy - destroyed
original dealer - if know or private party import or "unk" if unknown 
e-mail - the owners e-mail address or "none"
lro-net  - if this car is owned by a subsriber to lro-net then put "lro-net" here otherwise use "unk" for 
	unknown.
notes -  anything you'd like noted seperated by semi-colon

Examples:
26204112B,1965,IIa,88,Lurch,Light Green,Colorado,USA,dd,private party import,unk,lro-net,RHD Dormobile  
owned since 1976

26406309H,1970,IIa,109,White Rover,Tan,Arizona,USA,dd,unk,unk,lro-net,LHD; Safari top;5 door;deluxe 
bonnet;tire mount on bonnet and r-door;rear wiper added;overdrive;11 pass wagon;rear heater;deluze 
interior;20 gal SS tank;everything works

24442498G,1971,IIa,88,none,Red,Arizona,USA,dr,Arizona,unk,lro-net,trail truck;military 1 ton shacles;white 
spoke wheels;headlights in the breakfast;toyota land cruiser rear folding seats;rancho5000 shocks;future 
engine transplant

Thanks, 

Let's see what we can learn,

John Casteel

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 23:23:52 -0700
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Land Rover Diesel]
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Adrian Redmond wrote:

> freezing diesel (especially if it includes frozen water) is the worst
> enemy of the Scandinavian winter - 70 m.p.h in -15=B0Centigrade weather
> gives an effective temperature of about -60=B0C at the fuel tank and
> engine sump underside!

=09er, nope...  You are describing wind chill which is the apparent
=09temperature of your skin under these conditions due to evaporation.
=09That aex sitting out on the lump of wood awaying use to make
=09more firewood to keep warm will be at -15c whether it is calm out,
=09or the the wind is at 70 mph.  If this was true, then when you
=09get frostbite and a finger freezes, the finger would be at -60
=09rather than the -15 that it is really at (ouch wither way.  we
=09get frostbite warning on the radio here in ottawa through the winter)

> on unpaved roads and mountain terrain - including many trips through
> rivers and sea water. The 30 kilometer journey across the sea bed
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> standard 2.25 diesel motor, not subaqua add-ons, but baggage and camera
> on the roof for safe keeping!

=09Now this sounds really interesting!

=09Rgds from Canada

=09Dixon

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Diesels better than V8s? 
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 14:28:55 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@ridgecrest.ca.us>

In message <bulk.27440.19960827131758@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you write:
> In order to meet federal standards, Land Rover would have had to totally 
> rework the TDI to conform. Needless to say, they weren't about to go to 
> the trouble for a few 110s and 90s. Therefore, the old Buick got the nod.

	Also there is the cost of certifying the engine for the US market. 
Reportedly it cost $3 million to certify the 3.9 L V8.  This would be
in addition to re-engineering the Tdi and the fact that many people believe
that the US doesn't like diesel engines.

Ben
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Smith----------bens@ridgecrest.ca.us----------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:10:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: johnliu@earthlink.net
Subject: Land Rover Diesel

On 1996-08-27Land-Rover-Owner said to johnliu@earthlink.net
   >id JAA25112; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 09:56:42 -0700
   >Hello All!
   >Being a Landy virgin, I must call upon the numerous experts that
   >seem to be in abundance in this mailing list.
   >I have been offered a Series IIa Diesel with a spare engine and
   >gear box.  The g-box is a III and the one in the vehicle is a
   >military box (had a hydraulic winch that was sold for $1000.)  He
   >told me that the spare engine runs, and once I change out the g-box,
   >I'll get about 60 mph.  The Rover is in fair shape.  Definately
   >used as a work vehicle.  No back seats.  Imported direct from the
   >UK so it's still RHD (which I prefer anyways).
   >Please give some pros and cons about diesels.  The asking price is
   >$4500. Comment on the price if you would like to also.
   >Thanx a million!
$4,500 is a decent price for a SIIA Rover in fair shape,
defined as needing work but essentially complete and running
with a basically sound frame.  It is not a "steal" and if you pass this one
up you'd probably find another similar deal later.  If you particularly want
a diesel or a RHD then this vehicle might be more attractive since I see
those less often.  Check out the LR Web pages (I don't have the URLs handy,
but one is called the RoverWeb) for the FAQ on buying an old Rover.  Be sure
you check the frame very carefully since I have heard that former work trucks
imported from England often have led a hard life in wet English conditions
and thus suffer from rust.  In fact, check out the whole truck very
carefully since it would not be surprising to discover you have to spend
$2,000 or $3,000 or more on a "fair" truck, which brings you to a price
range that could have bought a cleaner truck to start with.  I'm assuming
thi one is a SWB; if it is a 109 then the price is a little better.

I have a little booklet on how to check out an old LR; if you want, email me
your address privately and I'll send it to you.

I can't comment about the diesel aspect, but be aware that even a gas LR is
a pretty underpowered vehicle on the freeway, and that if you are going to
do a lot of freeway driving an overdrive would be very welcome.

John Y. Liu
johnliu@earthlink.net (via HP200LX and NetTamer)

John Y. Liu

`[1;32;41mNet-Tamer V 1.05.1 - Registered

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:10:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: johnliu@earthlink.net
Subject: Diesels better than V8s?

On 1996 1-08-27Land-Rover-Owner said to johnliu@earthlink.net
   >id LAA26329; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:41:56 -0700
   >With all the talk of diesels being "great"...  I have a few
   >questions (possibly dumb questions):
   >It seems to me that a Diesel engine would be better suited for the
   >Discovery and the D90/D110.  Am I wrong in this assumption?  What
   >might have been the reasoning for fitting the NAS vehicles with V8s
   >instead of diesels?  (outside of the notoriously bad diesel
   >servicing going on at many dealerships - I'm referring to other
   >makes of automobiles such as VW, Audi, Mercedes.)
   >Douglas "Roverless" Boehme
   >(I'm still driving the F*** Taurus while waiting for my 90 to be
The mainstream buying public won't buy a diesel.  They want the power of a
petrol V8, the ease of finding fuel, and the "V8" badge.  So would I, as a
matter of fact.  Also -- speculation here -- Land Rover might have
anticipated difficulty getting a Tdi past US emissions.
John Y. Liu
johnliu@earthlink.net (via HP200LX and NetTamer)

John Y. Liu

`[1;30;44mNet-Tamer V 1.05.1 - Registered

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:49:10 +0900
From: Alan Logue <Logue@a011.aone.net.au>
Subject: Re: 2.6 Parts out there?

I've got a full set of new 2.6 std pistons if you are interested!

Let me know if you don't find any on your side of the pond.

Alan

At 12:01 27/8/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all.

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)]
>    (o)    (o)  '69 109" RHD OD 2.6 Dormobile        professional        
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
==============================================
Logue & Associates
Alan and Catherine Logue
Training & Development Consultants
PO Box 689
Morphett Vale
South Australia
Phone 61-(0)8-83844443	Fax 61-(0)8-83267227

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 18:36:02 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Thanks & Series I Manual

>    Anyone have a suggestion where I could get a Series I manual in North 
> America, preferably Canada, or must they be ordered from across the 

I was at Powell's Books today, and they had the (two-part) factory 
workshop manual for the II/IIa for $100, and a workshop manual for the sI, 
but I didn't notice if it was the factory one or an after market book.  It 
was $65.  Dunno how that compares to British Pacific (britpac@aol.com), but 
if you're in western BC, and feel like a drive south, you can try Powell's. 
 They're also on the web & have email, but I don't have the address handy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 21:51:17 -0500
From: "John P. Casteel" <jcasteel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Series Database

Well, after 1 day of soliciting input here is what we know about Series 
Land Rovers.

This information is based on 4 vehicles reported.

Vehicles by Year:	Vehicles by Series:	Vehicles by WBase:	
1965	-  2		I	-  0		 86"	-  0
1970	-  1		II	-  0		 88"	-  2
1971	-  1		IIa	-  4		107"	-  0		
			III	-  0		109"	-  2

I have deduced from this sample that all Series Land Rovers are in the 
USA and that 75% are daily drivers.  The other 25% are drivable.  The 
most popular color is Light Green.  Finally, half of all Series Land 
Rovers are in Arizona.

I am sure that this information will change. <g>

Thanks, and keep sending the information.

John Casteel

------------------------------

From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Tyre Pressures. (cont)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:05:52 +0930 (CST)

Bill Adams follows up his original post and Dave B's reply:

>> Next you'll tell us they won't wear at the edge if you 
>> run 'em too low??
> This assumes we are talking about bias ply truck tires which is what 
> these Olympics in question seem to be.

The Trojans sure are a Bias ply tyre.  I forget the max pressure but I 
wouldnt go near 80 psi with a six ply.  On an 88" LR 35 Psi will be too 
high and cause centre tread wear unless you are loaded.  

> Modern steel belted truck radials won't "balloon" when inflated to 80 
> lbs. , according to the tire guys where I bought them. The sidewalls are 
> extra thick and the steel belts keep the footprint flat.

Yes and no.  The belts do *try* to keep the tread flat, but at max 
inflation the centre will chop out pretty quick.  Have a look at most of 
the 10R or larger 15" radials on 4x4's and other SUV's, almost all have 
centre tread wear from over inflation.  On these wider tyres inflation is 
just as critical as it is for bias ply tyres.

As for radial side walls, they are almost universaly thinner and weaker 
than equivalent bias ply tyres.  Most radials to suit LR's are 1-3 ply 
side walls, and can be sensitive to staking. (hence the preference of 
foresters and some mining companies for the old bias ply tyres.)

Of course it is possible to get 750-16 radials with a single ply steel 
side wall (Bridgestone and Michelin used to do them anyway)  These 
suckers are as tough as nails but with price tags to match....

> The best advice I can give is to be a pest when it comes to buying tires. 
> Ask the salesman everything you can think of, no matter how ridiculous 
> your questions may seem. "My mother in law weighs about 150 lbs., if I 
> have her in the passenger seat and two dogs in back and I'm carrying all 
> her luggage from the airport...."

Good advise.  Once upon a time ( at least hear in oz) the tyre companies 
produced a booklet which listed max load V's Inflation pressure for all 
the LT and most pasenger tyres.  I havent seen one for a while but it 
cant hurt to ask.

For example a tyre might be rated at 1000Kg @ 35 Psi and 1800 Kg @ 65 Psi

cheers

-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: Re: French members
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 23:50:48 -0600 (MDT)

Alain-Jean Pares wonders where the frogs are...

There have been a couple in the past, but after saying hello they were 
never heard from again...

So, where are the French Land Rovers?  I was in Paris last month and saw 
one Discovery.  In Carcassone I saw a Defender nicely decked out with LR 
award stickers.  Minutes after crossing the border from Spain I saw a SII 
in fine condition.  But that is all I saw in about a week.  (Oh, yes, I 
saw a truckload of LRs emerging from the Chunnel.)

T. F. Mills
tomills@du.edu                               University of Denver Library
http://www.du.edu/~tomills                          Denver  CO 80208  USA

------------------------------

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