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From: Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de
Subject: t-shirt
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:37:25 +0200 (METDST)

Have I missed something, or aren't there any designs on the
net to be viewed?

Cheers,
Franz
---------------------------------------------------------------
Franz Parzefall                 tbr1102@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de
       _______
      [____|\_\==
      [_-__|__|_-]           Brumml  exmil. 1989 110 2.5D
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__..-
                                  

------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:00:19 +0200
From: wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal)
Subject: T-shirts

Hi all

Dave sez:
>Dave "" B.

This is a Landmark in History, Dave "always getting in the last word" B. is
actually speechless - or is that last-word-less :-)

Anyway, T-shirts. Those that are interested in what other people are doing,
http://www4.ncsu.edu/eos/users/r/rapalmer/www has some pics of the Vanagon
T-shirt. Quite nice IMHO.

W

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Aug 96 08:22:26 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: T-shirts

Hi all

>Dave "" B.

>>>This is a Landmark in History, Dave "always getting in the last word" B. is
>>>actually speechless - or is that last-word-less :-)

Oh, that? I was just listening...

even I know when to keep quiet.

Dave "but I usually don't" B.

:-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 06:24:43 -0600
From: Mark Murphy <Mark.Murphy@evolving.com>
Subject: T-shirts

Please add my name to the list of thoses requesting T-shirts.
Put me down for 1 XL (maybe 2 depending of the disign). 

Could someone send out an email to the "T-shirt list" letting
us know where the final and "to vote" designs are.

thanks,
Mark Murphy
mmurphy@evolving.com
Denver, Colorado USA
1995 white 5spd Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:10:52 -0400
From: Michel Bertrand <mbertran@InterLinx.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: SRIIa Shocks

At 21:10 96-08-05 -0400, Chris was asking:

>Now that I have the news 16-inch wheels and tyres I need to turn my
>attention to the shocks on the beast. I know some aftermarket shocks will
>work. What are they and where can I get them?

Rancho makes shocks for the Land Rover. I don't remember the part numbers
but any Rancho distributor will have them in his books. I have a set on
Rudolph, my IIA 109. These are the shocks for the 1-ton model and I don't
think that they make shocks for the regular 109 or the 88. The rear shock
mounts are different on an 88 than on the 109. You might get away with two
sets of front 109 shocks, but I doubt it. I think that the shocks are longer
on a 109 and won't necessarily fit the 88. Having 16 inch wheels shouldn't
require different shock absorbers since there is a standard set for all 88's
in the Parts catalogue and a set of heavy-duty ones. Nothing about 16 vs 15.

Hope this helps, and hoping that someone with a little more knowledge can
also help, 

salutations, 

Michel Bertrand

Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada, 

1963 109 PU (Rudolph)
1968 109 SW (in the works)
1973 88 SW (21st century project)

mbertran@interlinx.qc.ca <<---- Note new address!

------------------------------

Subject: Re: What Do You Call A Bunch Of Land-Rovers? 
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 06:34:19 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@ridgecrest.ca.us>

In message <bulk.14394.19960805211832@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you write:
> You have a gaggle of geese, a pod of whales, a pride of lions, a school of
> fish, a flock of birds, herd of cows, pack of wolves, and of course the
> oft-mentioned exultation of larks . . . so what is a "bunch" of Land Rovers?

	An invasion.  Or maybe a horde.  :)

Ben
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Smith----------bens@ridgecrest.ca.us----------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

From: "Mr Ian Stuart" <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:41:17 +0000
Subject: Re: SRIIa Shocks

> >Now that I have the news 16-inch wheels and tyres I need to turn my
> >attention to the shocks on the beast. I know some aftermarket shocks
> >will work. What are they and where can I get them?

> Having 16 inch wheels shouldn't require different shock absorbers since
> there is a standard set for all 88's in the Parts catalogue and a set of
> heavy-duty ones. Nothing about 16 vs 15. 
The wheel diameter will have no effect in the distance between spring 
centre and chassis - changing the springs would, but not the wheels...

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

Quote of 1996: "A.L.S. is a good example of scottishissityness"

------------------------------

Date: 06 Aug 96 10:13:48 EDT
From: Alain Hoffmann <100770.1655@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Better seating

To all,

As a new member of this list and a rather new to LR's I have a burning question:
Although my 90 is a well-mannered car the seat position is awkward. I swapped
already the seats for a couple of german Recaro's (an incredible improvement)
but they are still way to close to the steering wheel for my taste. Now my
question:
Can I cut out the upper half of the cargo wall without bad effects (squirks or
more body flex)? Anything tricks in doing this?
To save bandwith please respond directly.
Thanks floks.
			---ALAIN---

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 15:13:30 +0100
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Swivel balls

Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote:
> >Trouble is, you then won't be able to see
> >what's happening to your balls.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> Sounds easy enough to fix - have you considered abdominal exercises?
>   aj"That one was TOO easy..."r

Yup. Like throwing fish to dolphins!

-- 
David Olley
...............................................................
New Concept
PO Box 61, Winchester, SO23 0HA, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
...............................................................

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:18:16 -0400
From: "Jeffrey A. Berg" <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Subject: Re: What Do You Call A Bunch Of Land-Rovers?

>	An invasion.  Or maybe a horde.  :)

>From Roget's thesaurus:

Swarm --  Crush --  Body -- Knot

Considering the near-religious experience that comes through Series vehicle
ownership (I know I feel closer to God whenever I'm

My personal favorite would be to call them a *clump* of Land-Rovers.

RoverOn!

JAB

==
 Jeffrey A. Berg          Purple Shark Media                 Rowayton, CT

                         jeff@purpleshark.com
                          ==================
               My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
          My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
                       Taste for the good life,
                      I can see it no other way.
                                --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

------------------------------

From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:58:55 -0500
Subject: Re: SRIIa Shocks

Rancho *does* make Series IIa/III shocks, I run RS5000s on my IIa. They are
a bit stiff for general tooling around, but over all I'm pretty satisifed.

Part number are as follows:

#5163ÊupÊfrontÊandÊ#5169ÊinÊtheÊrear

I got mine from 4 wheel drive wharehouse in LA for $25 each, they looked
like returns, but new. Look in 4-wheeler mag or some such monster truck
rag for their ads, the run the 4/$99 offer quite a bit.

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 15:35:18 +0100
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: What Do You Call A Bunch Of Land-Rovers?

"A Leak of Land Rovers" has suitable alliteration, and it's meaning is 
obvious.

-- 
David Olley
...............................................................
New Concept
PO Box 61, Winchester, SO23 0HA, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
...............................................................

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 10:35:54 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Better seating

Are you nuts? Cut up a perfectly good $30,000 truck?
Give it to ME and I'll take good care of it without using the gas wrench 
on it.
Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: Better seating
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 15:45:03 BST

> Are you nuts? Cut up a perfectly good $30,000 truck?
> Give it to ME and I'll take good care of it without using the gas wrench 
> on it.

If its like the one on the 109" (we call it a bulkhead on proper Landies! 
although its obviously not the main bulkhead!), then I think there's a
safety issue. Try braking hard with a reasonable load in the back...
I've carried some large loads, and always anchor anything above the 
bulkhead. I don't really want a bike chopping my head off, thank you very
much!

Also, the SIII bulkhead is pretty strong. I suspect it stops a lot of body
flexing...

Richard   (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:45:59 -0400
From: LRO Book Shop & The LRO Shop <lroshop@idirect.com>
Subject: Various

T-shirts

We have received lots of requests for the T-shirt project and we have as
promised collected them together and will at the end of this week, or early
next, publish a summary of the order status and thoughts on design and
production.

Lots of interest from both sides of the pond, plus South Africa but nothing,
as far as I can see, from Australia.

Models

For all of you that asked the list is now available on line at our site
http://web.idirect.com/~lroshop/

For those with text browsers only please email me with your name and address
and I will mail you a list.

Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:53:32 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: What Do You Call A Bunch Of Land-Rovers?

>John Y. Liu asks a VERY loaded question:
>>You have a gaggle of geese, a pod of whales, a pride of lions, a school of
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>Well, what else but a misfire of Rovers?
>   aj"Either that or a leak of Rovers..."r
How about a Mechanic's Nightmare?

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:10:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Bert P. Krages" <krages@teleport.com>
Subject: Swivel Balls

                I replaced a swivel ball on my Series I a couple of years
ago.  It is not a technically difficult job but requires a fair amount of
persistence.  Expect it to take the better part of a day if you are not a
mechanical wizard (it took me the better part of a day).  You will need to
remove bushings and bearings from the old balls and install them on the new
one.  However, I would recommend replacing the bearings for the swivel pins
while you are doing the job.  A length of 2" x 2" board and a mallet will
help extract and install the bushings.  

        You will also need a spring scale to adjust the tightness of  the
nuts when reinstalling the swivel ball.  One source of such scales would be
a tackle store since these scales are sold for weighing fish.  (Maybe you
already have such a scale capable of weighing a fish of about 15 pounds; if
so, you are catching bigger fish than I).

        By the way, thanks to those of you who wrote in response to the
request for advice on how to revive a Land Rover submerged in a flood.  I
had Tim Cooper help me out and the Rover runs as good (bad?) as it did
before the flood.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:27:10 -0700
From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Re: What Do You Call A Bunch Of Land-Rovers?

>You have a gaggle of geese, a pod of whales, a pride of lions, a school of
>fish, a flock of birds, herd of cows, pack of wolves, and of course the
>oft-mentioned exultation of larks . . . so what is a "bunch" of Land Rovers?

For my collection, I think I'll compromise between M. Carradine's suggestion
of a Pool of Land-Rovers and that of a couple others of a Leak of Land-Rovers:

    A puddle of Land-Rovers

Cheers,

Granny

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:27:23 -0700
From: Blair Gillespie <Gillespie@thegrid.net>
Subject: Re: Better seating

Alain,
        If my memory serves me correct the NAS 90s already have the rear
bulkhead cut behind the seats. LR then installed a couple of braces that tie
in the sides of the box to the seat box. You might want to pose this
question to a NAS 90 owner.
                        Rover On,
                                Blair

At 10:13 AM 8/6/96 EDT, you wrote:
>To all,

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]

>To all,
>As a new member of this list and a rather new to LR's I have a burning
question:
>Although my 90 is a well-mannered car the seat position is awkward. I swapped
>already the seats for a couple of german Recaro's (an incredible improvement)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>Thanks floks.
>			---ALAIN---
Blair Gillespie
San Luis Obispo Ca. USA
1988 Range Rover
1973 S III 88
1967 FLH HD

------------------------------

From: "Niel J. P. Fagan" <NF@orc.soton.ac.uk>
Date:          Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:54:06 GMT
Subject:       The Land Rover gearbox jobs

A word of caution about gearboxes and their weight, use a jack to 
guide, but not to lift, the ONLY safe way is to remove the floor and 
gearbox cover and suspend the box on an engine crane, and if you 
remove the seat boxes as well you can lift it out through the top !

Regards Niel

'58 series 1, 2ltr diesel.
Rgds Niel

Views expressed are personal and not those of the 
University, unless otherwise & expressly stated.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:11:02 -0400
From: "Jeffrey A. Berg" <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Subject: Re: What Do You Call A Bunch Of Land-Rovers?

I wrote, but didn't complete:

>Considering the near-religious experience that comes through Series vehicle
>ownership (I know I feel closer to God whenever I'm

Dixon called while I was typing this up, and I got a bit distracted.  I was
trying to say:

Considering the near-religious experience that comes through Series vehicle
ownership (I know I feel closer to God whenever I'm driving my IIa uphill
on the Interstate) we might consider *congregation*.

RoverOn!

JAB

==
 Jeffrey A. Berg        Purple Shark Media              Rowayton, CT
                       jeff@purpleshark.com
                        ==================
                              Ia oro te natura
                      E mea arofa teie ao nei
                Ua oau te maitai no te fenua
               Te vai noa ra te ora o te mitie
                                  --Jimmy Buffett, One Particular Harbour

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 13:19:00 -0500
From: "Benjamin G. Newman,MD" <medone@iag.net>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Fellow Land Rover Owners in Maine,
Thursday Aug.8th my wife and I will be travelling to our summer home 
in Winter Harbour Me.in our RR for a three week vacation.I would love 
to meet fellow Land Rover owners and maybe pick up a few parts for my 
series 11A 1966 pick up truck;1966 NADA wagon and series111 
hybrid(1962).A few years ago I meet John Vallerand and son at their 
farm in Greene Me.That was a fun experience.
If there is anyone else out there to meet please give me a shout by 
tomorrow.
Thanks
Benjamin G. Newman

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date:  6 Aug 96 13:20:07 EDT
Subject: Re: The Land Rover gearbox jobs

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 11:24:12 -0600
From: Chris Brosious <brosious@pogo.den.mmc.com>
Subject: A Room at the Nationals

Fellow Rovers,

sorry about the cross posting: I'll keep it quick.

I was planning to attend the nationals this week at Crested Butte, CO; 
have a room at the Nordic Inn and all.  Unfortunately, my work schedule 
is changed again and I will NOT be able to attend - damn.  I had to 
cancel my room at the Nordic Inn, so there is now a King Kitchenette 
available for the Rallye.  Call the Nordic Inn at 907 349 5542 if you're 
interested.

Chris Brosious
'94 D90

------------------------------

From: Andy Woodward <azw@aber.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:20:21 +0000
Subject: Compressed rubber bushes

Since this list is the most mechanically inventive I have come 
across, I imagine there are lots of erstatz ways of compressing 
rubber bushes before inserting them into suspension components and 
stuff?

------------------------------

From: Andy Woodward <azw@aber.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:20:21 +0000
Subject: Re: Off-roading rule.

>> "If you have two-wheel drive, you'll hike out two miles.  If you
>> have four-wheel drive, you'll hike out four miles.  And if you have
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>to get *in* to a place. That way he's always got the reserve to get
>*out*.

Yep. I never lock the diff on the 90 unless I need to get out........

And it always baffles me why folk fit winches to the FRONT of 
4wds......

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 19:03 +0100
From: Jens.Schnitger@t-online.de (jens.schnitger@t-online.de)
Subject: Capstan trouble

Hello friends and likeminders,

I have a problem with my capstan winch. I lost ( yes i did :-( ) some parts of 
the power transmissin while off-roading in DK (nb: great aniversary meeting of 
the Dansk Rover Klub with unbelieable off-road area!). Now i´m looking for 
spares to recomplete my winch. It´s a civil capstan so military partnumbers 
won´t help. I need a source or partnumber for:

     the small propshaft (it has rounded teeth on both ends)
     the moveable engage/disengage part ( connects winch to camshaft)

Because the civil type is very rare, especially in germany, it´s not easy to 
find spares.

Thanks for any help wheter partnumber or/and source

Jens

-----------------------
Jens Schnitger
LR 109 IIa ´68 Station
jens.schnitger@t-online.de
north germany
-----------------------

------------------------------

From: "S. Vels" <svels@mail-server.dk-online.dk>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:03:23 +0001
Subject: Re: t-shirt

> Have I missed something, or aren't there any designs on the
> net to be viewed?
 
> Cheers,
> Franz

I've made a quick sketch for a proposal. If my provider will fix 
my FTP ability, you shold be able to see it before the end of this 
week on

http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/Soren_Vels_Christensen/contrib.htm

or

http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/svels/contrib.htm

Other contributors can send me a mail and i will include a link on 
the page. Make a separate link for each image you wish to include. I 
will number each one. Subject: T-shirt Design.

rgds
sv/aurens 

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@aae.wisc.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:28:16 -5
Subject: Re: What Do You Call A Bunch Of Land-Rovers?

> oft-mentioned exultation of larks . . . so what is a "bunch" of Land Rovers?

If the people on this list are any indication, I'd have to suggest a
 Rabble of Rovers.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:07:34 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: stuff, what do you call..

Dear all,
        I like *clatter of Rovers* the best so far, adjusting vavles on a
109, 2.25 this afternoon so it fits in well!!
        BTW, in regards to Benjamins post, anyone in, or driving through
Maine is welocme to stop by ECR, we are right on Rt. 90 in Warren, you
can't miss it... look for the 30 plus Rovers, and that is it!
        See ya!

From: Mike Smith
East Coast Rover Co.                    207.594.8086
21 Tolman Road  *Rt. 90*                207.594.8120 fax
Warren, Maine 04864                     ecrover@midcoast.com
    Land Rover Service, Sales, Restoration, and More
        Series Coil Chassis Specialists

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@aae.wisc.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:02:37 -5
Subject: LROShop web site

Just took a look at their web site looking for the t-shirt list list. 
Couldn't find it but did find that their electronic order form does 
not appear to be a secure document. At least it didn't activate the 
security in my browser, and the order form isn't an shttp or https 
document.
I wouldn't give my credit card number via the web to a non-secure 
site I'd suggest that anyone ordering, print the document and fax it.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:23:56 +0200
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Free-wheel hubs

Richard -
>Will I be able to get away with
>just replacing the seals and gaskets?
>Under what circumstances will I require new ball races and similar gizmos?

Just seals and gaskets should be fine as long as there's no damage to the 
other parts.

>I'd like to add FWHs, but I think I might take this opportunity to find
>out how many splines I have before ordering...

Anything different from 24 would be a new subspecies (but then, with an 
Asian vehicle, who knows?).
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:23:53 +0200
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Rear springs

David Bobeck writes:

>WHat is the method for getting new springs to "relax". Mine are so tense and 
>uptight that they hold the frame up so high I can't get the shocks or check 
>straps on, and couldn't even THINK of tightening the bushings. I figured the 
>rear tub would help by adding some weight...

Dave - I can see two possibilities:

a) Wrong springs for your vehicle - maybe you have the front springs in the 
rear? How many leaves are there? Are they military = too long for a civilian 
vehicle?

b) Shackle bolts too tight? But then I guess you could not have gotten the 
springs on in the first place.

I dare not ask this: Your axles are over your springs, not under them?

And no more tasteless jokes about my age, please. When you get to be that 
old you won't like it, either, junior.
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 15:50:24 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Gatherings

Two Series Rovers together is called a fludge
Three or more of any kind is called a spuddle
Mixed leaf sprung and coilers are called a glabby
If they're all coilers its a grunch
If its all Range Rovers its a porcupine

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Aug 96 16:08:31 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Rear springs

David Bobeck writes:

>WHat is the method for getting new springs to "relax". Mine are so tense and 
>uptight that they hold the frame up so high I can't get the shocks or check 
>straps on, and couldn't even THINK of tightening the bushings. I figured the 
>rear tub would help by adding some weight...
Dave - I can see two possibilities:

a) Wrong springs for your vehicle - maybe you have the front springs in the 
rear? How many leaves are there? Are they military = too long for a civilian 
vehicle?

Came off another 88... They aren't too long since they fit lengthwise just fine.
It's the arc that's just super high. 
Which seems like a good thing, the truck sits nice and high.
 I Forget the number of leaves but it is the right number. 

b) Shackle bolts too tight? But then I guess you could not have gotten the 
springs on in the first place.

Not tightened at all yet.

I dare not ask this: Your axles are over your springs, not under them?

Huh? Oops...:-)

Not bloody likely...

I think they just need to be mashed a little bit closer to the frame so that I 
can get everything on properly. Then i can drive it around and then retighten 
the bushings

And no more tasteless jokes about my age, please. When you get to be that 
old you won't like it, either, junior.

Tasteless???? Aww come on, that wasn't so bad. I thought it was rather quippy.
Besides, once you pass 300, its all the same...

Dave "We're all just big kids anyway" B.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:49:55 -0400
From: LRO Book Shop & The LRO Shop <lroshop@idirect.com>

I wouldn't give my credit card number via the web to a non-secure 
site I'd suggest that anyone ordering, print the document and fax it.

Professor Rowe is correct and that is the reason we give clients a choice.
We offer toll free telephone service within North America.  We offer a fax
capability world wide.  Our UK office offers a telephone service although it
is not toll free.

We already take orders via the internet, that is now forming the largest
part of our operation.  In an age when everyone books theatre tickets using
a credit card, buys items from sometimes unknown sources using a credit
card, holds hotel rooms with a credit card is the internet any less safe.
The majority of our customers don't think so obviously.  Before we had the
order form customers were e-mailing the information to us and still do.

Times change and maybe the concern about internet security is not as much of
an issue as everyone once thought.

We believe that by using a reputable service provider we are as secure as a
theatre ticket service etc.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@aae.wisc.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:21:59 -5
Subject: Re: LROshop web site

snip
>Times change and maybe the concern about internet security is not as
>much of an issue as everyone once thought.
snip
Apparently the government does. My browser  and my web server are
still classified as muntions under the US export laws. (admittedly 
dumb)

>The majority of our customers don't think so obviously.  Before we had
>the order form customers were e-mailing the information to us and
>still do.
snip
Some may not care, I'm sure. But I suspect most really don't 
understand how the internet really works.

> We believe that by using a reputable service provider we are as secure as a
> theatre ticket service etc.
snip
Absolutly not true.
When you're calling on the phone it's a private conversation. The 
internet isn't.
It's not necessarily you or your service provider who are in question. 
But the information goes through a lot of hops between a client and 
the server. Kind of like taking a piece of mail (your order form with 
my card number on it) to Grand Central Station and handing it 
(unsealed) to a stranger and asking him or her to pass it on through the 
crowd to someone at the postoffice. I may trust the postoffice and 
you, but it has passed through a lot of unknown hands.

Anyway, my sole point was to warn list members that they're taking a 
chance sending their card numbers in the clear, since there was none on 
your web site. Forwarned is forarmed. Or so I hear.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Subject: LRO-shop and Internet Security
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 14:53:00 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@ridgecrest.ca.us>

In message <bulk.22970.19960806134725@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you write:
> Times change and maybe the concern about internet security is not as much of
> an issue as everyone once thought.
> We believe that by using a reputable service provider we are as secure as a
> theatre ticket service etc.

	Security is not much of an issue because when a business gets hacked,
they usually hush up the whole thing so the public never hears about it. 
The only real published report was one by the US GAO which reported that there 
were 100,000 attacks against the unclassified network at the Pentagon and a 
majority of these were undetcted by the on site operators at the time. 

	The security of the service provider is only part of the picture.  When
you submit an email or www message from the customer to the business
and the information is sent as plain text, anyone who has compromised a 
machine between those two points will be able to grab the data.  Of course
in the US and you  pay attention to your creditcard bill, you usually
don't have to pay for such unauthorized charges.

	Just as an example between LRO shop (idirect.com) and myself
there were 17 (hops) machines when I wrote this email.  

	Note, this isn't againt LRO-shop.  I am customer, but I use the 
telephone (which is also subject to being tapped, but that is less
likely (assuming that it isn't cellular)).

Ben
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Smith----------bens@ridgecrest.ca.us----------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:44:14 -0500
From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Subject: Re: rustproofing bulkheads

Hi all.
Has anyone attempted rustproofing the inside of a bulkhead while the rest of the 
vehicle is still attached to it? In this climate it will most definitely rust 
from the inside out. There is a drain hole at the bottom of the door 
post that could be widened to get a tube with sprayer nozzle all the way up the 
post, but what about the top hollow sections, above and below the vents? Two 
possible access points are the holes for the speedo cable and the corresponding 
blank on the opposite side. Any experiences would be welcome.
Thanks
Allan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:41:37 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: T-shirts

Bill Adams' idea of downloading a common design is simple and elegant...a 
good solution.  However, the image that is downloaded should be a 
mirror-image of what you need.  Virtually any color copier can reproduce the 
image, but it has to be printed on special release paper.  The instant-print 
T-shirt places have copiers that will do the image-reversal automatically.  
Cheers

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *----1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7 ----*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:41:40 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Window channels

Jeremy wrote:

>Traditionally, these become "rust rivets" not readily removed by mere
>mortal screwdrivers.

Indeed.  The easiest way is to get a small (1/4") cold chisel.  Root along 
the track until you find one of the screws/rivets.  Whack it both ways a 
bit, then use the small needle-nosed Vise-Grips to twist 'em out.  Cheers

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *----1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7 ----*

------------------------------

From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:04:30 -0400
Subject: Re: T-shirts

Sandy (and the rest of the list),

I have to agree with someone else, who so well put it - "I'm equipment
impared, and I can't get up!!"

I can do E-Mail (sometimes, when the netpolice don't kick me off the server).
 I can do some office stuff (word processing, spread sheets, ad nauseum).

But, when it comes to quality printouts (anything better than my H-P
Inkjunk), color printers, (scanners, we don't need no stinkin' scanners),
 etc.   Hey, I'm just a government employee!!!!

Me, I'm willing to spent the "extra", including the customs, to get the
T-Shirts "ready made".

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:00:54 -0500
From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Subject: Re: Gatherings

On Tue, 6 Aug 96, "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov> wrote:

>Two Series Rovers together is called a fludge
>Three or more of any kind is called a spuddle
>Mixed leaf sprung and coilers are called a glabby
>If they're all coilers its a grunch
>If its all Range Rovers its a porcupine

Give the chap a T-shirt for that contribution!
There has been a glabby parading around Vieux Fort town today - a passed my pal 
in his bright yellow Stage 1 V8 at least 5 times. No luck on forming a spuddle 
though. Probably just as well - the 3rd wouldn't have been a waver.
Cheers

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 08:56:29 -0800
From: James Mercer <james@babbage.cs.murdoch.edu.au>
Subject: Re: What Do You Call A Bunch Of Land-Rovers?

>Considering the near-religious experience that comes through Series vehicle
>ownership (I know I feel closer to God whenever I'm driving my IIa uphill
>on the Interstate) we might consider *congregation*.

Yes, but if you considered a whole lot of Land Rovers driving uphill
on a freeway, then it would have to consider it a Traffic Jam of 
Land Rovers...

Just a thought.

Later,
James.

O=============================================================O
| James Mercer                        james@cs.murdoch.edu.au |
| Professional Officer                                        |
| School of Physical Sciences, Engineering and Technology     |
| Murdoch University                  Ph: +61 9 360 2790      |
| Murdoch, WA 6150, Australia         Fx: +61 9 360           |
O=============================================================O
 

------------------------------

From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover gearbox jobs
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:38:21 +0930 (CST)

Alan and Neil comment:

> A word of caution about gearboxes and their weight, use a jack to 
> guide, but not to lift, the ONLY safe way is to remove the floor and 
> gearbox cover and suspend the box on an engine crane, and if you 
> remove the seat boxes as well you can lift it out through the top !
  
> This is all well and true if you're taking the thing out in one great lump.

Points taken but Mirek was asking about a stage 1 box.  These are a one 
piece casting (the t/case and g/box are one unit) and are designed to be 
removed from below (hence the removable g/box x-member)  The engine hoist 
is a great idea, but I for one can barely afford a small "K-mart" floor 
jack let alone a hoist.  The idea of removing the roof to allow use of a 
chain block just doesnt appeal, but i guess it is the next best option.
If they werent so expensive I might consider hiring one, but with the way 
the hire places charge you could just about buy one after 3 days...

I 'spose an engine hoist is on the wish list, along with a welder, oxy, 
compressor, dremel, real trolley jack.........

cheers
-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:43:58 -0700
From: Bruce.Curtis@Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Curtis)
Subject: Re: T-Shirts

On the subject of what to put on a T'ee ... An E-Mail addr is a good
idea, but what to put on? Well i just added an E-Mail auto responder
which sends a general what's at the site and how to get started. The
E-Mail addr is:

  information@Land-Rover.Team.Net

Or

  info@Land-Rover.Team.Net

So, this would make a good E-Mail addr to put on the T-Shirt.

Later, Bruce.
'95 Disco
--
Bruce W. Curtis                     brutus@Eng.Sun.COM
SunSoft, Internet Engineering       http://www.badrc.org/~brutus
2550 Garcia Ave, MS MPK17-202       (415)786-5147
Mountain View, CA 94043-1100        FAX:(415)786-5896

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 22:25:46 -0400
From: "Jeffrey A. Berg" <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Subject: Re: LROshop web site

>It's not necessarily you or your service provider who are in question.
>But the information goes through a lot of hops between a client and
>the server

While I agree with Tom in principle, but the reality is that I think in
you're a lot more at risk any time you hand the card to a waiter/waitress,
a sales clerk, or use a less than top notch mail order company.  Any of
these people can easily copy and sell or use credit card numbers.  It's a
pretty long shot that it will be intercepted on the Internet, despite media
and security server vendor warnings to the contrary, and I long ago stopped
worrying about whether or not such transactions were secure.  So far, it
hasn't been a problem, and there are a lot of more pressing things I can
spend my time fretting about.  YMMV.

Still, it should be made clear that the information isn't being transmitted
via secure methods so that people can make their own choice with all the
information.

RoverOn!

JAB

==
 Jeffrey A. Berg          Purple Shark Media                 Rowayton, CT

                         jeff@purpleshark.com
                          ==================
               My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
          My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
                       Taste for the good life,
                      I can see it no other way.
                                --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

------------------------------

From: daviscar@cris.com
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 22:32:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Question 

HI All

I will be traveling to NY. State the last week of this month are there any
LR events planed for this time period? I live in IL. Anything of LR intrest
between here and there?
Bruce
67 SIIA 88 Patches

Daviscar@concentric.net
        Or
BDaviscar@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:59:45 -0700
From: faurecm@halcyon.com (C. Marin Faure)
Subject: Re: British Northwest Land Rover

>Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 11:33:29 -0400
>From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>trouble free vehicle and would prefer buying from a commericial place
>rather than
>a private party.

If British Northwest Land Rover is the same outfit I'm thinking of, they
have been in business for a long time.   I was told a number of years ago
by several different people who had dealt with them that they were VERY
expensive as far as parts prices are concerned.  I do not know if this is
still the case, but I would advise checking any price quotes against the
prices for comparable parts or vehicles at Atlantic British, Rovers North,
etc.

Marin Faure

1973 LR Series III
1991 RR Vogue SE

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:04:37 -0700
From: faurecm@halcyon.com (C. Marin Faure)
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

>>I know this has been asked before but I can't find it back in my mailboxes:
>>how do you start to replace the window channels?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>replaced it) at the base of each channel.  Traditionally these become "rust
>rivets" not readily removed by mere mortal screwdrivers :)

I've found that you have to drill out the screws holding the lower window
channels in place as they've probably rusted solid.  The upper channels
should be easy, as water doesn't sit in them.  When I replaced my channels,
the upper screws came out quite readily and had no rust on them at all.

Marin

1973 LR Series III
1991 RR Vogue SE

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Aug 96 18:03:15 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: T shirts 

>>>Why doesn't someone decide who is going to get them printed and start taking 
requests / orders to get ....an idea if we can meet the 100 minimum requirement.

I'll have 2 XL shirts 

Mark 

good idea, Mark. One for me, XL please. (Gotta leave extra room for those 
multiple-pint outings)

Dave "That makes 3 so far" B.

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: Free-wheel hubs
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 96 8:44:44 BST

> >Will I be able to get away with
> >just replacing the seals and gaskets?
> >Under what circumstances will I require new ball races and similar gizmos?
> Just seals and gaskets should be fine as long as there's no damage to the 
> other parts.

Thanks (and to everyone else replying with similar answers)

> >I'd like to add FWHs, but I think I might take this opportunity to find
> >out how many splines I have before ordering...
> Anything different from 24 would be a new subspecies (but then, with an 
> Asian vehicle, who knows?).

Apparantly there are two kinds - perhaps the other (?10) is for a different
Solihull product?

Richard  (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: LROshop web site
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 96 8:52:35 BST

Couldn't find the tshirt info on the site, was the quoted URL wrong??

> snip
> >Times change and maybe the concern about internet security is not as
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> still classified as muntions under the US export laws. (admittedly 
> dumb)

That's American export laws for you. Your Government is trying to sue/seriously
fine foreign companies that export to countries you don't like. Dubious in
bad old days of the evil empire - even more dubious now.
(political rant off - apologies to all)

 
> >The majority of our customers don't think so obviously.  Before we had
> >the order form customers were e-mailing the information to us and
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> Some may not care, I'm sure. But I suspect most really don't 
> understand how the internet really works.

Its all a matter of relative risks.
 
> > We believe that by using a reputable service provider we are as secure as a
> > theatre ticket service etc.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> When you're calling on the phone it's a private conversation. The 
> internet isn't.

Also wrong. A phone call is not a private conversation. I'd say its probably
more public (definitely easier to tap into) than an Internet message.
it is also easier to restric people reading a private email at either end,
than to stop someone overhearing the conversation.

As I said, its all relative risks. I bet we all use ATMs, don't we?
Now, they *really* are risky...

After saying all this, LRO shop, should have secure forms, and encourage 
the use of something like PGP  - even if its to show willing (a bit like
having a signature on a credit card...)

Richard

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:26:23 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Free-wheel hubs

>>I'd like to add FWHs, but I think I might take this opportunity to find
>>out how many splines I have before ordering...
>Anything different from 24 would be a new subspecies (but then, with an
>Asian vehicle, who knows?).
>Peter Hirsch
Uh,Peter.He could have either ten or twenty four.Other than *that*
is a new sub species....

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:52:29 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Free-wheel hubs

>Apparantly there are two kinds - perhaps the other (?10) is for a different
>Solihull product?
>Richard  (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

Ten spline up to a certain date,twenty four thereafter.But dont ask
me *what* date...My '70 11A 88"is a 10 spline jobby.
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: "Mr Ian Stuart" <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:08:27 +0000
Subject: Re: Free-wheel hubs

Quoting Mike Rooth, from  7 Aug 96

> Ten spline up to a certain date,twenty four thereafter.But dont ask
> me *what* date...My '70 11A 88"is a 10 spline jobby.
Just to confuse the issue even further.....

New Discoverys (K -> ?) have an 11-spline front half-shaft.

the 10-spline unit costs under 200 quid, the 11-spline unit costs nearly 400 
quid!!!

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

Quote of 1996: "A.L.S. is a good example of scottishissityness"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 02:10:23 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: T-Shirts

Whatever the design, I like it.  Brian Cotton's globe looks great, but I 
also support someone else's idea of making the rovers different colors (and 
maybe tossing in a 109" or two?).  In any case, count me in for 3 XL (me), 
2 L (my dad), and 2 M (my girlfriend).  Thanks!

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:56:01 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: What's in a name?

What with Land Rover re-writing history,so that suddenly I
appear,according to them,to be driving a Defender"product",
I cast my eyes upon one of the two L-R publicity posters
on my office wall.(Apart from anything else they effectively
hide the Blu Tac and nail holes put there by previous
occupants).The "Defender" poster shows all three models
parked on a fell somewhere.(Pub No LRD903).
Under the picture are the usual"By appointment" thingys.
It would seem that Land Rover do not dare to tamper with
history where the Royal Family are concerned.
They read:-
By Appointment
To H.M.The Queen
Manufacturers of Rover Cars
Land Rovers and Range Rovers
Rover Group Ltd Birmingham.

By Appointment
To HRH The Duke of Edinburgh
Manufacturers of
Land Rovers and Range Rovers
Rover Group Ltd Birmingham

By Appointment
To HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother
Manufacturers of Land Rovers
Rover Group Ltd Birmingham

By Appointment
To HRH The Prince of Wales
Manufacturers of
Land Rovers and Range Rovers
Rover Group Ltd Birmingham

No mention of this "Defender" thingy at all! Does one therefore assume
that the Royal Family are driving something entirely different to the
rest of us poor mortals?
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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