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Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 11:58:15 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Land Rover diesel education desired

Doesn't matter. The only Rovers that will drop dead are those with electronic
ignitions. Uncle did quite a bit of testing on these issues on the trestle out
West, and found that common points-type ignitions couldn't care less if they're
far enough away to avoid being in the blast damage area.

And what did Uncle decide with regard to alternators/generators then?

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 07:33:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Waving

Jim;
     Thanks....
sure was an incredible ammount of LR's seen in such a small area within a
short period of time...lots of cash down there 
where is the BSROA rally going to be held near (Town)
will think about it if its not too far...
Rgds
Steve

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 07:33:39 -0400
Subject: For sale..gaiter kit

I have a Leather Gaiter kit for sale (Britpart not genuine LR )
still in sealed package from Land-Rover supermarket and will sell it for what
it cost me
they messed up the order and sent me 4 complete kits instead of two
price is $ 30.00
e- mail me if interested
Rgds
Steve Bradke    96 Discovery
WA2GMC        72 S lll 88 ( For Sale 
                       68 S lla 88)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 04:51:22 -0700
From: cascardo@ix.netcom.com (Lucas Andres Cascardo)
Subject: Re: 1995 D90 SW Owners reaction.

You wrote: 

>  Proud owner of number 177/500, 1995 D90 SW. Interested in getting in
>  contact with all other 499 owners of 1995 D90 SW's.

>  return offically to these shores. Rumors are running high that LRNA 
is
>  going to introduce as a 1996 1/2, or 1997 model, a D90SW. If rumors 
are
>  correct, it would appear LRNA has had a change of position as to he
>  Defenders availability in the US, one that will adversely affect the
>  limited nature of our vehicles. Interested in getting other owners 

It is not a rumor.  LR is introducing an automatic D90SW (how many I 
don't know).  The 1995 D90 SW is still a limited version because it is 
standard.  If I am not mistaken this will be the first series of 
automatic Defenders (does anyone have any info on performance / test 
trials yet).

Lucas Cascardo D90SW

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:03:03 -0400
From: grantw@freenet.carleton.ca (Grant Wilkinson)
Subject: HELP

Can anyone tell me how to get off the rro list?  I have tried sending
unsubscribe messages to the major but all I get are answers saying the
"owner" will decide if I can get off, and let me know.  So far, "owner" is
ignoring me.

--

Grant Wilkinson
Ottawa, Canada
grantw@freenet.carleton.ca

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Charity run to make us better than bikers
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 96 08:17:00 DST

I'm with you on the charity collection idea. How about planning something 
for the 1998 (50th Anniversary) Down East. The idea of a LR Ambulance for a 
third world country sounds good. How about a sponsorship deal for everyone 
who travels there. Sponsors at so much a mile. Say 200 Rovers, average of 
300 miles 10 sponsors each at 5c/mile. Get LRNA to sponsor and loan money to 
prepurchase suitable vehicle, RN BritPac etc support necessary resto work. 
Display vehicle at Owls Head Museum for a couple of months prior to Down 
East with collection box at display, etc. Would require a lot of planning 
but I'm game to assist in any way I can. Anyone else up for it? Lets form a 
group to discuss.

Trevor  Easton, Grimsby, Ontario

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:20:20 +0100
From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi)
Subject: Re: For sale..gaiter kit

>I have a Leather Gaiter kit for sale (Britpart not genuine LR )
>still in sealed package from Land-Rover supermarket and will sell it for what
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>WA2GMC        72 S lll 88 ( For Sale
>                       68 S lla 88)

Steve-
If the gaiters are for your disco, I'm interested!  Send me details.
-Bob

  rvirzi@gte.com             Think Globally. ===
  +1(617)466-2881                            === Act Locally!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:07:30 -0400
From: Hank_Lapa_at_PO-PLAZA1@SIGNALCORP.COM (Hank Lapa)
Subject: Treatment for Rubber

I seem to remember some Smithsonian restoration/preservation 
folks telling me some years ago that ArmorAll was 
detrimental to rubber over the long term.  I use STP Son of 
a Gun once in a while, but am not sure of the differences in 
formulation.

Thinking back to a story I was told by an old Connecticut 
Air Natl Guard guy of how they would wipe down the matt camo 
paint on their F-100 jets with hydraulic fluid to make them 
look clean and slick, I wonder if using a bit of Girling on 
rubber might be a good idea, esp as it's specified for 
constant contact with rubber seals of the brake system.  
Seems to make sense, and could be a good use of that 
half-empty jug that has absorbed too much water vapor to use 
in the brake/clutch resv anyway.  

Hank
1960 Ser II 109 SWD

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 96 07:47:37 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: help me(non-Land Rover)

>>>>Anyone with a moment, sorry for using the bandwidth, but I want to give my 
best
friend a hard time.

So you want us to send him some raunchy jpeg's? 

Dave "Sorry no rover content" B.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 96 07:57:36 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Mystery Exhaust Fluid

I recently had my 2.25 Holden engined SIII fitted with Motivator extractors
and a new 2" exhaust system. This morning I noticed what appears to be
water dribbling out of the exhaust.............snip............ Can anyone tell 
me where it's coming from
and what it means?

Oh no!! Oh my god, your engine is burning water!!!!....not. :-)

Don't worry about it. I've had cars blow steam before, yes, they all seem to do 
that. But my Rover would blow rather alarming quantities of water all over who 
or whatever was unfortunate enough to be parked next to it. This happened more 
in the cold months than in the summer.The fun part was that the tailpipe was 
coated inside with oily soot, which made the water into an indelible brown goo 
that really made a mess of whatever it landed on. The first timre I noticed it 
was on a long road trip, so naturally I thought the engine wwas self destucting.
I wasn't losing coolant (that happened on the way home, another story) so I just
kept driving and it was fine. I guess its something to do with the tailpipe 
cooling after a run, which through the miracle of science creates droplets of 
water on the inside of the pipe, and then...
I wouldn't worry about tghe rust either, there's probably *some* oil getting by 
your rings and leaving a nice rustproofing on the inside of the pipe.

------------------------------

From: daviscar@cris.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:40:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Chicago Land Rovers Picnic (bill's picnic)

Hi All

Well The picnic went with out a hitch till the rain, showed up during the awards
part of the day oh well landies like water. A good time had by all, looking
forward to next year myself. The food was good and lots of it.

Thanks to all the fokes who voted for my Patches  to get the Round to it award.
The first place when to a nice SIII .

Congrats too Hank? (on the list inkornoink) On his SIIA 109 SW He got two
weeks ago got back from SC.  He found out it is in need of a frame over. But
the body looks great nice and straight.

For those of you who wonder just how many and what type showed
S--- 88      5 showed
S--- 109 sw    3 showed
RR              2 showed
D90             1 showed   (aka SIV)
Oh yea and 1 military je-p (who let him in?) just joking.
Bruce
67 SIIA 88 Patches
WANTED pre 1968 109 In USA
Daviscar@concentric.net
        Or
BDaviscar@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Land_Rovers@learnlink.emory.edu (Sean P. Murphy)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:32:29 -0400
Subject: Re: 1995 D90 SW Owners reaction.

Richard_Sieben@ccm.fm.intel.com,Internet writes:
> Proud owner of number 177/500, 1995 D90 SW. Interested in getting in
>   contact with all other 499 owners of 1995 D90 SW's.

>   LRNA positioned our 500 vehicles as the end of the Defender run,
> never to
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> input
>   on this subject and the groups interest in having a dialog with LRNA
>   about plans that will affect our ownership experience.

You can reach a fair number of them through the Defender Registry at
http:www.learnlink.emory.edu/solaros; look for the SW designation or
the limited run on the plaques.  I'll be happy to point other SW owners
your way if you're interested in organizing something.

------------------------------

From: Jim Pappas <roverhed@m3.pcix.com>
Subject: Rovers on the Green
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 23:15:19 -0400

The BSROA will host its 3rd annual Rovers on the Green Day this Sunday, =
21 July from 10AM to 3PM at the Museum of Transportation at Larz =
Anderson Park in Brookline, MA.

There will be a fee of $5.00/vehicle (members and non-members). $2.50 of =
the $5.00 will be donated to the Museum in appreciation, and the =
remainder will help defray the cost of prizes/awards.

Land Rover poker will be the featured *game* this year - replacing the =
*feely-meely* of the past two years.

A food vendor will be on the grounds.

We're looking for a good turnout. Please come on out! NO RAIN DATE!!

Admission to the museum is included.

Call the BSROA Club line to receive more information or post me =
directly.

cheers
Jim

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@aae.wisc.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:06:51 --6
Subject: Re: Charity run to make us better than bikers

> I'm with you on the charity collection idea. How about planning something 
> for the 1998 (50th Anniversary) Down East. The idea of a LR Ambulance for a 
> third world country sounds good.
How about for a rural North American area? When I lived in VA a 
neighbor's guest died of a heart attack because the local rescue 
squad didn't have 4WD and it took a long time to slog up the hill to 
his house on foot.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@aae.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: 16 Jul 1996 07:24:01 -0700
From: "Bob Frey" <frey@smtp.pvr.com>
Subject: Re: Mystery Exhaust Fluid

You've increased the total volume of the exhaust system and the surface =
area of the interior of the exhaust system while decreasing the velocity =
of the exhaust. Result is more condensation and a longer drying cycle =
after cold start.

Bob Frey
D90 "Red"

 ------ From: Land-Rover-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net, Mon, Jul 15, 1996 =
------ 

I recently had my 2.25 Holden engined SIII fitted with Motivator =
extractors
and a new 2" exhaust system. This morning I noticed what appears to be
water dribbling out of the exhaust. It's clear, doesn't appear to have =
any
strong smell and it isn't hot. Can anyone tell me where it's coming from
and what it means?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 96 10:23:07 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: New Address 4 Me

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator

------------------------------

Date: 16 Jul 1996 07:38:03 -0700
From: "Bob Frey" <frey@smtp.pvr.com>
Subject: Re(2): 1995 D90 SW Owners reaction.

I've never driven an automatic off-road. I've aways been curious about =
engine braking on steep decents with an automatic....any experience out =
there?

Bob Frey
D-90 "Red"

 ------ From: Land-Rover-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net, Tue, Jul 16, 1996 =
------ 

It is not a rumor.  LR is introducing an automatic D90SW (how many I 
don't know).  The 1995 D90 SW is still a limited version because it is 
standard.  If I am not mistaken this will be the first series of 
automatic Defenders (does anyone have any info on performance / test 
trials yet).

Lucas Cascardo D90SW

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:45:54 -0500
From: doncastr@ns.acadiacom.net (Peter C. Doncaster)
Subject: Pulling trailer w/ Series II

Anyone had any experience pulling a trailer w/ a 2.25liter petrol??
I might be moving soon, and I'm thinking of pulling a SMALL u-haul trailer
for about 1500 miles. I have an 88 series IIa w/ IIa transmition and no
O/D.

Please tell me before I do somthing silly.

Peter Doncaster
New Orleans, Louisiana

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 10:06:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ray Harder <ccray@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Pulling trailer w/ Series II

On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, Peter C. Doncaster wrote:

> Subject: Pulling trailer w/ Series II
> Anyone had any experience pulling a trailer w/ a 2.25liter petrol??
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> for about 1500 miles. I have an 88 series IIa w/ IIa transmition and no
> O/D.
peter, i tow a trailer regularly with my siia.  a light load is
no problem.  heavy loads -- 3000 pounds can make you wonder whether
the rover or the trailer is doing the driving.  loading the 3000
pound trailer correctly -- with the proper distribution -- say
200 pounds of load at the ball hitch -- is critical.  the other
problem is mental -- my trailer is loosy-goosy with a tilt
mechanizm.  whenever i go over bumps it lets out clunks.  these
clunks get sent up thru the tongue and echos via the siia frame.
it sounds like bad things are happening, but i think it is
only noise.  i recently towed my trailer 3000 miles in search
of adventure and rover parts.  it does affect your top speed
(you thought you had to drive slow without a trailer -- try it
with a trailer).  headwinds that slow you normally down to 55mph
slow you down even more.  a 40 mph headwind across kansas prolonged
that crossing agony to almost unbearable duration.  thru the
mountains was no problem.  the o/d is helpful for split shifting.

since you emphasize SMALL, i would go for it if 1) you have a
slow-speed expectation level, 2) your frame is sound with minimum
rear cross-member rust 3) you load it properly and 4) drive
so you keep control of the vehicle.

ray harder

------------------------------

From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:38:03 -0500
Subject: Re:  Pulling trailer w/ Series II

Might want to check out your half shafts, or at least have a spare pair 
along...

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------

Date: 16 Jul 1996 08:35:15 -0700
From: "Bob Frey" <frey@smtp.pvr.com>
Subject: Re: 1995 D90 SW Owners reaction.

When I bought my D90 soft-top there were no announced plans for the SW to =
be imported...it was supposedly the last of the NAS Defenders. So big =
deal. I purchased my truck because it met my needs and I appreciated it's =
heritage and character. I don't plan to sell it. As an investment its a =
lousy deal no matter how few are imported to North America. More vehicles =
mean more parts, more aftermarket parts suppliers and  and lower prices. =
Twenty years from now I'll be able to buy a parts vehicle...I'm a driver =
not a collector!

sorry for the rant...

Bob Frey
D-90 "Red"

 ------ From: Land-Rover-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net, Tue, Jul 16, 1996 =
------ 

  LRNA positioned our 500 vehicles as the end of the Defender run, never =
to
  return offically to these shores. Rumors are running high that LRNA is
  going to introduce as a 1996 1/2, or 1997 model, a D90SW. If rumors are
  correct, it would appear LRNA has had a change of position as to he
  Defenders availability in the US, one that will adversely affect the
  limited nature of our vehicles. Interested in getting other owners =
input
  on this subject and the groups interest in having a dialog with LRNA
  about plans that will affect our ownership experience

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:52:41 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Pulling trailer w/ Series II

>Anyone had any experience pulling a trailer w/ a 2.25liter petrol??
>I might be moving soon, and I'm thinking of pulling a SMALL u-haul trailer
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>O/D.
>Please tell me before I do somthing silly.
Dont worry about it,it's what they were built for.Woman over here,
a month or two ago couldnt get her tow car to start,to take her
two horses to a show.
Dissapeared,came back twenty minutes later with my mates old 11A
88",hitched up,and off she went.No worries.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:07:20 -0700
From: "Christopher H. Dow" <dow@thelen.org>
Subject: Re: Re(2): 1995 D90 SW Owners reaction.

        I've taken my automatic Disco off-road, and was quite pleased.
Before the Disco, I had a Toyota 4Runner, which I purposely purchased with a
standard (BTW, this kills resale for a SUV in California--cost me about 2K
on the sale). My FJ40 buddies all laughed after I told them I wanted a
standard for "better off-road capabilities", as experience had shown them
the value of a $10k US upgrade to Chevy V8s with auto trans.  After I went
off-road with them, I saw what they meant.  They never lugged, and could go
through almost anything (this may be heresy on this list, but I've noticed
that the FJ40 is a fine off-road vehicle, if rather lacking the charm of a
Land Rover).  
        Anyway, the first time I went off-road in the Disco, I had a much
more pleasant experience (which I'm sure was not solely due to the automatic
transmission :-).  Also, I'm pretty sure it will be more pleasant pleasant
not to burn out a clutch because I've gone over too many boulders.  

Chris

At 07:38 AM 7/16/96 -0700, you wrote:
>I've never driven an automatic off-road. I've aways been curious about =
>engine braking on steep decents with an automatic....any experience out =
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)]
>trials yet).
>Lucas Cascardo D90SW

------------------------------

Date: 16 Jul 96 12:23:27 EDT
From: Richard Brownlee <101360.3273@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Billing

Hi All

I saw the post a little while back about meeting outside the beer tent on
saturday 5pm.  Is this still on?  I have only just been able to get the time to
attend so the LRO camping is full - I will be camping in the Billing area in a
red Dormobile KHG 820G - arriving saturday - come and say hi.

Regards to all 

Richard

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: vandecar@nwlink.com (Van Decar)
Subject: FS: 1994 Defender 90

Well I have decided to sell my D90 before I take off the UK.  
I will probably pick up a diesel when I get there.  Here are the specifics:

1994 Arles Blue Defender 90 #1057 in great condition.
Air Conditioning, AM/FM/Cassette
Front brush guard and rear light guards, and wing protectors
Bonnet mounted spare in addition to the rear mounted one  
Four PIAA auxiliary lights, K&N synthetic fluids
1995 Best Top, safari cage, and BIMWI & Surrey tops
Rear seat, side steps, cargo rubber mat
31K miles.  Mostly highway miles with light off roading

I am currently stationed at Altus Air Force Base in Altus, Oklahoma
Willing to drive a couple hundred miles (Dallas, Oklahoma City, etc.) on
weekends for a serious buyer.

Phone: 1-405-482-8101 ext.  8215
email:  vandecar@nwlink.com

Thanks and warm regards,

Chris Van Decar

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:38:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: m8f@ornl.gov (M Scott Fugate)
Subject: "Limited Editions" 

Richard Sieben is concerned about LR's decision on...

 "Defenders availability in the US, one that will adversely affect the
  limited nature of our vehicles. Interested in getting other owners input
  on this subject and the groups interest in having a dialog with LRNA
  about plans that will affect our ownership experience."

Gee, Richard, sorry you're bumming.  Maybe you should have spent your money
on Elvis plates from the Franklin Mint or on some other "Limited Edition
Investment".  I guess now your ownership experience will be based solely on
having a great truck, just like the rest of us open edition owners.

Very unexclusively yours,

Scott Fugate 

'70 IIa 88
'89 RR

P.S. for those who want to be waved at...  Come on down to Knoxville, TN.
If you can make eye contact, RR and Disco drivers  will return a wave 75+ %
of the time here.  (Male drivers closer to 100%)  I'm thinking since we
don't even have a dealer (yet) within three hours of town,  maybe ALL of our
Rover owners have a little enthusiast in them.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:50:03 -0400
From: Rob MacCormick <Rob_MacCormick@Harvard.Edu>
Subject: another among you

I've been a lurking around these parts for awhile...Soon....(Yeah yeah we've
heard it before) I will be sporting a @#$$@@ grin associated with
ownership...You can begin to brace yourselves 'cause I'm confident I'll have
some Taylor-esque ?'s for the "wisdom" associated with this list......If all
goes as planned WHooo WHooo HA HA HA (maniacal laugh, complete with hands
rubbing together) I'll be owning a dormobile!

In other news:
Chris, Your well wishing your bud on his first year of marriage may prove to
be painful....I recieved the following in reply to my note to him....Cheers!:

>Many thanks, but when I get hold of Chris I plan to drive his 
>Landrover over him ...

Rob MacCormick
Acting Associate Director/Associate Industrial Hygienist
Environmental Health and Safety Department
Harvard University
46 Oxford Street
Cambridge, MA 02138
(617)-495-3055 (office - voicemail)
(617)-495-0593 (fax machine)
(617)-746-0145 (pager, input your phone #)
rob_maccormick@harvard.edu (email)
1576245@pager.mcb.com (SHORT (<80 characters) emails to pager)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:54:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: "Limited Editions" 

On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, M Scott Fugate wrote:

> Richard Sieben is concerned about LR's decision on...
>  "Defenders availability in the US, one that will adversely affect the
>   limited nature of our vehicles. 

> on Elvis plates from the Franklin Mint or on some other "Limited Edition
> Investment".  

	I was always under the impression that a "limited edition" automobile
	was limited to the greatest number that they reasonably thought they
	could sell at a particular price.  However, what I would be more 
	worried about is the current LR advertising campaign that relabels
	the Series vehicles as Defender 109's, Defender 80"'s et cetera.
	Suddenly this "limited" edition D90 is going to be joined by 
	thousands of newly labeled Defenders, further taking away from the
	exclusive nature of the vehicle.

	Hmmm... I drive a 110 prototype!

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:19:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 109" Sighting

Mike...
     Did you see the thread on the NH Off road trip on Aug 3 & 4 ?
are you thinking of going and if so got room for a passenger ? I Plan on
re-doing swivel balls, mine will be apart ( stand-by for help/questions )
Rgds
Steve

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:31:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bruce Davis <daviscar@cris.com>
Subject: Re: Charity run to make us better than bikers

At 09:06 AM 7/16/96 --6, you wrote:
>> I'm with you on the charity collection idea. How about planning something 

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>squad didn't have 4WD and it took a long time to slog up the hill to 
>his house on foot.

This is more like it I know WE (Rover owners) would not let a bunch of
bikers out do us. Know all we have to do is find some where that REALLY
needs something like a LR ambulance of a Fire truck ( thanks to clinton x
military is next to impossible to import.) Who will talk to RN or AB to find
out if they are willing to Help?

Does anyone know of an area that is in need of something like this?

I for one can't think of a better way to make the 50th Anniversary of LR's
more rememberable.

All of you Who are members of clubs should bring up this Idea at your next
meeting. We will need to start getting it together soon as it will take time
to get organized and find the right LR.

Take to your local dealers about sponsering eather by the mile or just with
flat Dollars.

I will start by volunteering to keep track of who is doing what as long as
you e-mail me with it. I will also keep the list updated if it is wanted.
Bruce
67 SIIA 88 Patches
WANTED pre 1968 109 In USA
Daviscar@concentric.net
	Or
BDaviscar@aol.com

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 14:06:29 -0400
Subject: Gaiter kit  SOLD

      Thanks to the multitude who responded to my post....
The gaiter kit has been sold....
Rgds 
Steve

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 14:50:54 -0400
Subject: LRNA and the D90SW

Richard writes, in part,: 
 "LRNA positioned our 500 vehicles as the end of the Defender run, never to
  return offically to these shores. Rumors are running high that LRNA is
  going to introduce as a 1996 1/2, or 1997 model, a D90SW. If rumors are
  correct, it would appear LRNA has had a change of position as to he
  Defenders availability in the US, one that will adversely affect the
  limited nature of our vehicles. Interested in getting other owners input
  on this subject and the groups interest in having a dialog with LRNA
  about plans that will affect our ownership experience."

I disagree with you completely.  I'm willing to bet that if you read the
literature closely, you'll find all kind of wiggle-words that will allow LRNA
to do anything they want with the D90!   And if they do return the D90SW in
another form, they haven't done anything wrong except return a vehicle that
the markets wants in a slightly altered format... OBD2 and automatic not
withstanding.

It appears that you bought you vehicle hoping it would be like the 110's.
 It's a sucker's bet anyway you look at it.  We have a deposit on an XD but I
keep telling my wife that sure, it's a limited run vehicle.... and there's
always a limited edition something-or-another coming down the pike.

Truth is, I like my '95 Discovery.  In fact, unless there are more than
cosmetic changes to the XD or if my wife kills me or there is another
compelling reason to go in debt just to buy a limited-edition XD, I may not
go through with the deal!    Besides, I got my eye on a Lightweight.  

Anyone on this list will tell you that only time will determine if a vehicle
will appreciate.   And while there are owners who will not off-road a
particular vehicle hoping it will go up in value,  there are others using
their vehicle for what the designers intended.  Even if we do purchase the
XD, you can expect to see it out and about in the deserts of AZ not parked in
a garage hoping the value will increase.  

Sorry for the bandwidth and the ranting... we now return you to your
regularly scheduled LRO list...
Gerry "I need a vacation" Elaml

Phoenix  AZ

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:23:03 -0700
From: John Karlsson <karlsson@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: another among you

Rob MacCormick wrote:
> I've been a lurking around these parts for awhile...Soon....(Yeah yeah we've
> heard it before) I will be sporting a @#$$@@ grin associated with
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
> be painful....I recieved the following in reply to my note to him....Cheers!:
> ..Many thanks, but when I get hold of Chris I plan to drive his
..Landrover over him ...

You must have sent him a message much worse than mine, which was just a 
pleasant reminder to make the big day a memorable one.  He just surmised 
that it must have been Chris and his friends that set him up.  

Chris - Maybe I got you in trouble by saying, "Who's Chris?  I was just 
responding to the ad in the New York Times."  I hope so.  Heh, heh!

John

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:28:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: 12/4/95 <rsloan@titan.liunet.edu>
Subject: LR off road clinic

Went to the Glen Cove dealership sponsored Off Road clinic this past 
Sunday, held at an old motorcross race course in Suffolf County Long 
Island. I figured it might be interesting to see what they had cooked up 
for the vehicles and to show my brother, girlfriend and cousin what the 
vehicles could do in a fairly safe environment, this way they might join 
me in 'real terrain' later.
First was lunch.  Absolutely delicious, full catered affair, during 
which the morning session was given their awards and completion 
certificates.  Most of the participating vehicles were Discos and and new 
RR's, no Series were present unfortunately, and I was among the only 2 
D90's in attendance, or as the instructor called them, series IV. 
Almost missed the first set of instructions due to mouth stuffing of 
shish kebobs, but fortunately recouped the general gist of the talk.
After some ice breaking activities, designed it seemed to allow everyone 
to remember everyone else's names, we got into the vehicles and took 
off.  The entire trail was driven in low range, and I must say there were 
a couple of descents where I was held up only by my seat belt.  My 
girlfriend shut her eyes.  It was the kind of hill that even though I 
'knew' we would negotiate it no problem you still were kind of like, did I 
ever finish writing that "Write Your Last Will by Mail?"  Also a little 
harrowing was the driving along the burm at an angle like this /.
  Allright, perhaps not so extreme, but that's how it felt.
The real fun was to be had in the mud pit, gratis of Bertha.  I got stuck 
once, reversed out, then made it through with a little more momentum.  
Then it was just a matter of someone saying, "try going through there 
then up that..." or "how about traversing that section there then..."  
When I looked out the first time we got stuck the mud/water was up just past 
the doors, which, by the way, I'm glad I didn't take off yet.  
Can anyone recommend a good way to clean an engine compartment and under 
the body, because mine is now thoroughly covered in mud.  Hosed off most 
of the glop when I got home but there is still a layer of brown.
My passengers were slightly changed as well, my cousin kept saying "Well, 
you get what you pay for," and my girlfriend was quite enthusiastic about 
attending some rallys in the near future.  We even won an award.  Plus it 
was great fun watching all the snooties get mud all over them, their 
pristine vehicles, and their up turned nose.  Some of their cars even 
suffered minor damages.  A few bent bumpers and ripped off spoilers.  
Someone with camel trophy stickers plastered over their vehicle and a 
deep water forging kit got repeatedly stuck like it was their job.  That 
irony did not go unnoticed.

P.S. To the person driving home from the east end of Long Island, any 
chance of you driving on the Long Island Expressway Sunday morning around 
11:30 AM Westbound in a series Rover?  I saw you, you saw me (green D90) 
exchanged arm flails?

Any info on the engine/ underbody cleaning would be greatly appreciated! 

Rich
Land Rover...D90...I mean series IV...I mean...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:54:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: vandecar@nwlink.com (Van Decar)
Subject: 1994 D90 For Sale

Well I have decided to sell my D90 before I take off the UK.  
I will probably pick up a diesel when I get there.  Here are the specifics:

1994 Arles Blue Defender 90 #1057 in great condition.
Air Conditioning, AM/FM/Cassette
Front brush guard and rear light guards, and wing protectors
Bonnet mounted spare in addition to the rear mounted one  
Four PIAA auxiliary lights, K&N synthetic fluids
1995 Best Top, safari cage, and BIMWI & Surrey tops
Rear seat, side steps, cargo rubber mat
31K miles.  Mostly highway miles with light off roading
$29,500

I am currently stationed at Altus Air Force Base in Altus, Oklahoma
Willing to drive a couple hundred miles (Dallas, Oklahoma City, etc.) on
weekends for a serious buyer.

Phone: 1-405-482-8101 ext.  8215
email:  vandecar@nwlink.com

Thanks and warm regards,

Chris Van Decar

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:52:06 -0700
From: John Karlsson <karlsson@edgenet.net>
Subject: Sighting:  Banana

Someone at work told me he often sees a yellow Land Rover (Defender?) in 
the Wakefield, RI area with the license "BANANA".  Anyone on the list?

John
Hope Valley, RI

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 16 Jul 96 14:02:38 MST
Subject: 109 4 sale

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist ~ S.R.P. ~ AM/FM - Graphic Records
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
Oh dear... It seems that I'm being solicitated to sell her more and
more. Just last Friday I was in a gun shop, and someone came in looking
for the owner and wanted to buy it. I told him I was planning to restore
1st, but traded numbers with him. He called and left a msg on my phone
too.

Well... I really need to make a list of all the parts I have ready to
put on, but basically, I have "all" (there's always something more that
you discover you need...) the parts gathered to restore to near original
condition, frame, steps, seals, etc. It's currently running well, and
only needs valve guide seals.

As it is, I'd probably take $12K for it with the spare frame and all
misc stuff. I'm located in Arizona, let me know if seriously interested.

My luck: I'd get it completely restored, and then not find anyone
interested!

Dave Brown.

#=======#         _________         "What lies behind us and wat lies
|__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___    before us are tiny matters ompared
| _|  |   |_ |}  \__ - ____ - _|}  to what lies within us."
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                     Ralph WaldoEmerson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:31:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: scooper@pop.seanet.com (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
From: scooper@scooper.seanet.com (Sandy Cooper)
Subject: 109 4 sale

Howdy!  Do ya still have the 109?  How much ya asking?
John Cooper

------------------------------

From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:50:29 -0500
Subject: Re:  LR off road clinic

> D90's in attendance, or as the instructor called them, series IV.

So is LRNA trying to make the Defender a Series, or the Series into old
defenders? Either way, seems like history revisionism to me. I will politly
but firmly correct *anyone* that says my IIa is a defender...

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 96 17:38:53 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: LR off road clinic

>>>Any info on the engine/ underbody cleaning would be greatly appreciated! 

A friend's Mom had a hot water line to the outddor spigot. even with the high 
pressure nozzle it still didn't get everything off.

Dave "As long as you get the big clumps you're ok" B.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 17:40:10 -0400
From: BRADLEY***************** <jethro@li.net>
Subject: Re: LR off road clinic

Great time!!!!
We attended last years event at the Hampton Classic.  What a deal!!!  It
sounds like this years was just as well set up.  It was very well organized
and the food/drink and extra goodies really made for a nice time.  One poor
soul last year rolled his brand new 60K Rangie on the Saturday course. OUCH!
We now have a nice "character dent" on one running board (Disco).  Some came
completely off and others received dents in the usually rear spots.

You're right about some of the "snoots".  Sorry, but Long Island has more of
them per square mile than anywhere else that I have been. (Nothing to be
proud of for sure.)  It was fun to watch people that had never seen any
offroading more severe than the road shoulder.  The squeals could be heard
echoing throughout the forest.  I for one was impressed beyond measure.  I
used to have a '79 J**p, 304.  I wouldn't have taken it on some of these
obstacles.  

Glad to hear you had a great time.  We had several D90's last year.  I
believe a Ford Explorer tried to sneak on too.  I'm glad.  He did fill in
one of the holes for the rest of us. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Vermont in 4 weeks!!!  Any good trails??? (NOT Rubicon strength)

Brad
'95 Disco

At 04:28 PM 7/16/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Went to the Glen Cove dealership sponsored Off Road clinic this past 

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 56 lines)]
>Rich
>Land Rover...D90...I mean series IV...I mean...
####################################################
Want a few nice surprises ???
Come visit my WEBSITE
http://www.li.net/~jethro/jethro.htm
You will need Netscape V2
----Se ya there,   Jethro
####################################################

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:23:38 -0400
From: Hank_Lapa_at_PO-PLAZA1@SIGNALCORP.COM (Hank Lapa)
Subject: Roof Vents

All,

I'm seeking to replace the 4 roof vents in my 109 SW.  I 
hope to find original, shallow-profile vents in new 
condition. Any good deals out there, either sale/trade?  

I have 2 new, Genuine, deep-profile vents as fit in the 
forward two positions of an 88 hardtop.  (These are not 
applicable to 109 SWs unless you want to cut 2 new holes in 
the forward (sloping) section of your roof.  Hey, not a bad 
idea, esp if your dash panel vents are sealed.)  These are 
available in trade for 2 of the shallow ones.

Hopefully,
Hank

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 17:51:51 -0400
From: BRADLEY***************** <jethro@li.net>
Subject: Re: Belated & longish trip report

Sounds like a fun trip.  I am from Seattle originally and now reside on Long
Island, NY.  Kinda the other side of the world.  Anyway your mailing
reminded me of a Land Rover trip that I'll never forget.

Last year when the Disco was about two months old.  We took a trip from Long
Island to Cincinnati, Ohio.  Along the way going towards Columbus, The
weather was foul to say the least.( remnants of a hurricane had made their
way up north)  Anyway, a TORNADO came from the sky and landed to my left
about 100 yards from the Disco. As I saw the trees explode I nailed the
pedal to the floor.  We were doing 90 MPH in torrential rains trying to get
away from this storm. This speed was maintained for a good 20 to 25 minutes.
I can say that the performance of the LR was exemplary.  It handled better
than any other vehicle that I ever owned.  In fact I always say that it
handles better in the rain than anything else on dry pavement.  It's kinda
funny now but at the time I had the sh** scared outa me.

See, all Land Rover adventures don't have to be in the woods!!!

Brad......................;^)
'95 Disco/escape pod

At 12:52 AM 7/16/96 EDT, you wrote:
>Last month (beginning JUN 9th), we drove from White Rock, NM to
>Washington/Oregon via CO, UT, and ID.  We returned via CA, NV, UT, and CO. Got
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)]
> -HAD been using premium, but north of Moab, with the fuel gauge at the "You
>gotta be shi&&in' me!" mark (just below the E), I rolled into a gas station
that
>was out of everything but 86oct unleaded. Filled up and HAD ABSOLUTELY NO
PROBS.
>No ping, no loss of power, no difference.   We're being ripped off, y'all.
>Sightings:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)]
>B&B---company cars?
>-it seems that the next most popular old 4x4 is still the Scout.  I saw,
with no
>exaggeration, 100 of these during my trip, most in good shape. Last one was
>built in '81, I think.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>hundred pounds to start and another hundred or so gained along the way. It rode
>fast and comfortable.
>If anyone wants to know about watering holes, chow, route, etc., drop me a
line.
>Oh, yeah, kt=knot (a little over a mph), for the non-sailor types.
>Jim, White Rock, Northern New Messico
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>'88 Alfa Milano 3.0
>'81 MB 300TDt
####################################################
Want a few nice surprises ???
Come visit my WEBSITE
http://www.li.net/~jethro/jethro.htm
You will need Netscape V2
----Se ya there,   Jethro
####################################################

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 19:12:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: 12/4/95 <rsloan@titan.liunet.edu>
Subject: to winch or not to winch

Does anyone know a really cheap source of quality winches?  In all my 
four wheeling (not as much as it sounds, mostly beach work, a few fossil 
digs) I've never had one, or used one, though I can see 
the benefits of possessing one.  (I saw The Gods Must Be Crazy too ya 
know!) I could barely afford my truck as it is, much less a winch.  So 
is it necessary to purchase a winch new?  What about proper mounting, 
forward or rear? I don't believe I've ever seen a used winch advertised.  
How do you determine the winch you need for your vehicle type?  Do I really 
need one?  

later, 
Rich '95 D90

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 20:39:27 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: WD-40 silicone NOT!

John Tackley <jtackley.dit@state.va.us> wrote:

> I've seen recommendations for use of WD-40 and Silicone spray products.

>WHICH is it?

On vinyl dashes and seats, WD-40 is the *only* way to go.  (And this comes 
from Chris "The Badger" Laws who earns his living making seats and tops...)
WD-40 is a petroleum product.  What is vinyl?  Essentially petroleum with a 
few of its molecules rearranged.  

If you use "silicone" spray on seats and dashes (no comments from the pre- 
Series III squad, please), it will clog up the pores and eventually crack 
the material.  Worse, on seats, it'll make the stitching brittle.  Use 
Armor-All and your seats will look fine...for a while.  A year or so later, 
they will just fall apart at the seams.  (Mine did.  And The Badger did a 
*great* job of reworking them.)  Cheers

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *----1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7 ----*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 21:27:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Land Rover Toys

	Robin appears to have gone nuts and is unloading his massive toy
	collection.  Prefers to unload the entire thing in one shot.
	Will consider breaking the Series from Modern vehicles
	so it could be available in two parts.  Serious enquiries only. 
	No tire	kickers please.
	Phone Robin Craig at 613 738-7880 in evenings 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 00:02:47 -0400
From: Ernest Young <ernyoung@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Ball Joints

I own a 90 Range Rover County and noticed (In between waving at any 
Rover I see) that I am getting some play in the front end. When I 
checked the tie rods I found play in the ball joints. The rubber looks 
good on both of them, my question is if it possible to repack the joints 
instead of replacing them? Also wanted to add that I just had an 
electrical fire under the dash of my rover and I did not have an 
extinguisher on board (I am a proffesional firefighter so I don't need 
one right?). While disassembling the dash to put the fire out with a 
towel I realized that the fire had become more than I could handle with 
my laundry and began to abandon ship, tossing out my daughter's carseat, 
toys and other valueables. The dread of loosing my entire vehicle was 
overwhelming. Luckily, a passerby by happened to have a dry chemical 
extinguisher and handed it to me just in time for me to make quick work 
of the flames. The damaged was kept to the wiring and harnesses directly 
below the steering column. The moral of the story is...If you don't have 
one already... Get a fire extinguisher...

Ernie Young
ernyoung@earthlink.net
90 Range Rover
79 MB 300TD
69 Triumph Trophy 250 (basketcase)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 21:47:08 PST
Subject: Series IIA Steering W
From: rhodesia@juno.com (Chris R. Whitehead)

Hi everyone,

I am looking for the original spoked steering wheel for my 1966 Series
IIA. I thought I had one lined up from a guy in Canada, but have had no
coms from him since I sent my last message. My present steering wheel is
so worn that it is seemingly crumbling every time I put my hands on it.
My hands come off it looking black!!! Please e-mail me at :

Rhodesia@juno.com

Cheers

Chris W
1966 Series IIA 88"-now actually moving on the road instead of in little
pieces!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 22:19:40 -0700
From: fhyap@ix.netcom.com (Franklin H. Yap )
Subject: Re: to winch or not to winch

You wrote: 
>Does anyone know a really cheap source of quality winches?  In all my 
>four wheeling (not as much as it sounds, mostly beach work, a few 

fossil 
>digs) I've never had one, or used one, though I can see 
>the benefits of possessing one. 

 I don't believe I've ever seen a used winch advertised.  
>How do you determine the winch you need for your vehicle type?  Do I 
really 
>need one?  
>the benefits of possessing one. 

Someone I know bought his from a contractor who installed it but had 
never used it.  He said that surplus winches are sometimes available 
from utility companies and maintenance divisions of public agencies.  

Have you considered carrying a come-a-long for emergency use?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 22:37:22 -0700
From: tspoto@az.com (Thomas Spoto)
Subject: Re: Ball Joints

My niece just had a fire in her car and it turned out to have been caused by
a burned out fuse wrapped in foil as a temperary fix. I am curious as to the
cause of your unfortunate experience as one day I plan on getting a RR
. 
As far as the tie rod ends go, to my knowledge , no they are not
rebuildable. However some do have grease zirks and can be repacked. The last
set I bought were not fitted with zirks but did have them in a kit. To
install them you drilled a suitably sized hole in the back of the Tie Rod
End and then tapped it to fit the zirks. Screwed in zirk and from then on
kept them lubed, but not oozing grease (bad for tie rod end longevity I was
told). 

Tom             tspoto@az.com

2 X 72 88's ( 1 moves between being parts and a restoration  )
1 X 67 88   ( I took my drivers exam in it in 1975, parking was a breeze)

>.............SNIP.................Also wanted to add that I just had an 
>electrical fire under the dash of my rover and I did not have an 
>extinguisher on board (I am a proffesional firefighter so I don't need 
>one right?). 
                        ...SNIP...

>The damaged was kept to the wiring and harnesses directly 
>below the steering column. The moral of the story is...If you don't have 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>Ernie Young
>ernyoung@earthlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 08:00:58 +0200
From: bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton)
Subject: Waving

This is how it works:---

Why do Series drivers wave ?
Why don't coil drivers wave? 

Ah ha ! It's NOT the waving thats the clue it's the temperature !

All series drivers aren't waving they are wiping the windscreen to see where
they are going. !

The coil drivers have good heaters and don't need to wipe the windscreen !!

Just a thought

Brian -wipe wipe- Cotton
South Africa 

------------------------------

From: Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de
Subject: Re: Waving
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 08:27:29 +0200 (METDST)

------------------------------

From: safari@iafrica.com
Subject: Rolling coilers
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 96 06:48:11 GMT

Hi all
Coil sprung Landys seem to have a reputation here in Southern Africa for being 
unstable compared to the leaf sprung versions .Most folk when attempting 
extended trips up north are forced to use loaded roof racks and this of course 
compounds the problem.
The main problem with the coilers appears to be in the damping.When on a 
typical potholed African road the body tends to oscillate and this swaying 
motion forces drivers to overcompensate with often fatal consequences. There is 
now a large market for aftermarket dampers and coil springs to help control 
this. The later Defenders with control rods may be better.
There are a few guys around here who specialize in rebuilding rolled 110's.
In my opinion leaf springs are better suited to Africa.They are safer, easier 
to fix, and last longer even though they are not as comfortable.
Cheers.
--
Rob Symons  safari@iafrica.com  Durban South Africa

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:25:15 +0200
From: logical@icon.co.za (Paul Damhuis)
Subject: Re  Mystery Exhaust Fluid

The mystry exhayst fluid is good old fashioned condensation, particularly
noticable on new exhausts.

Paul

Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow the sky may fall on our heads.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 00:41:20 -0700
From: kelvinc@terrestrial.com (Kelvin Crezee)
Subject: Arizona Land Rovers

We now have a dedicated digest for Arizona LRO's to join up if you are from
AZ send e-mail to 

listserv@stat.com     then in the letter section   subcribe azlro.

I have't received anything myself yet since I just joined tonight, but hope
it will create a good forum and group outings.  Join up if you are
interrested in AZ 4 wheeling with rovers.

K. Crezee D90 #2728
Kelvin Crezee

kelvinc@terrestrial.com

------------------------------

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