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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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msgSender linesSubject
1 "ISO 90000 Auditor" [ste44ISO 90000
2 "Boehme, Doug" [dboehme@32RE: LR Problems
3 Nathan Dunsmore [dunsmo121Re: LR Problems
4 Russell U Wilson [ruwst+21Re: Who makes these tires?
5 "Boehme, Doug" [dboehme@36Re: LR Problems
6 Nathan Dunsmore [dunsmo128Re: LR Problems
7 Michel Bertrand [mbertra30Re: Who makes these tires?
8 g@ix.netcom.com (Gerald)13Disco rooves are ferrous
9 g@ix.netcom.com (Gerald)19Re: Who makes these tires?
10 Gordon Rea [grea@net.gov24Gain 80# overnight!
11 twakeman@scruznet.com (T20Stoves Ltd Rainhill????
12 Jesse Furqueron [wjf@iex16Re: Disco rooves are ferrous
13 "Leon H. Akong" [akongl@12Re: Gain 80# overnight!
14 lopezba@atnet.at 38Re: Turner and QM
15 "S. Vels" [svels@mail-se30Re: ISO 90000
16 Gordon Rea [grea@net.gov14technial quiz answer
17 "Deanna D. Sitter" [lani41grab bag
18 chrisste@clark.net (Chri18Series IIa Window Replacement
19 daviscar@cris.com 51Re: Nat Rally in middle is a joke
20 "Jason B. Carroll" [jaso43Series III Buying Advice


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Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 09:13:07 EDT
From: "ISO 90000 Auditor" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: ISO 90000

This standard (and the other ones 90001, 90002, 90003) can be a
total waste of time.

All that they show is that the company concerned have a set of quality
control procedures which are well documented, suitable (decided by
the auditor) and followed (again decided by the auditor).

The cynic would say this shows they reliably make things badly.

It gets worse.  Anybody want to guess how to become an auditor?

It's simple, you place an advert like this:

ISO90001/2/3 audits done, send 1000 pounds in used notes to
110 Redlands Lane, Fareham, PO14 1HE, England.

Please state which standard you would like.  Include return address if
you would like a certificate.  Same day service.

There is no control over the auditors.

Don't expect anybody who claims ISO90000 to be better than someone
who doesn't.  The quality control system is all secret and you have
to be a big customer to be allowed to have a look round most
factories before you buy.

Sad but true, there are no quality control standards for the
quality control standard!

BTW the above advert is genuine and anybody who does send the money
will receive a totally correct and valid certificate.  I can even
EMAIL certificates if that is preferred.

Cheers, Steve

Steve Reddock, Xyratex        |  "NEVER QUESTION AN
Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450      |   ENGINEER'S OPINION,
IBMMAIL (GBXYR96P)            |   YOU THUNDERING MORON !"
Steve_Reddock@uk.xyratex.com  |     - Dogbert 1996

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From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@rad1.pcmail.ingr.com>
Subject: RE: LR Problems
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 96 09:39:00 CDT

I had a Honda ('92 Civic Si)...  Once...  The engine block cracked right 
after the waranty ran out.  So I bought a Land Rover.  Yeah, I know, there 
is no logical step from one to the other, except for the fact that my Honda 
sucked.

Douglas Boehme
'95 Red D90 #2767
 ----------
From: KKelly6788
Cc: ganchors
Subject: LR Problems
Date: Wednesday, July 03, 1996 4:11PM

>I was just so amazed at
>the problems people on the CSO list have had that I'm now expecting
>the worst to happen. But I'm really glad I bought my D90s even if
>means I'll have to eventally rebuild them from the ground up.

Remember people don't post to the list that "the old Range Rover is still
running great"  I have not had a single thing break for quite a while (well,
the fiber optic did pop out of the speedo pointer again).  If you read the
Honda/Acura list  you will see a ton of blown engines, bad trannys and FI
problems.

Kevin Kelly

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Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 09:56:49 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Re: LR Problems

Boehme, Doug wrote:
 
> I had a Honda ('92 Civic Si)...  Once...  The engine block cracked right
> after the waranty ran out.  So I bought a Land Rover.  Yeah, I know, there
> is no logical step from one to the other, except for the fact that my Honda
> sucked.

Doug,

Are you trying to say your D90 sucks?! Maybe we should talk $$$.

 
Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, MD 21020
dunsmo19@us.net

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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 10:37:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Who makes these tires?

The best bet would be that they are a BF Goodrich tire.  All the Major US 
tire companies produce "no-name" brands for sale in discount stores. 
Though BF Goodrich does more truck tires than the others.  I 
can call a local tire store and try to find out which manufacturer made 
your tire though.

Russ W.

 On Fri, 5 Jul 1996, Jens Vesterdahl wrote:

> Hi all.

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)]
> Happy Rovering
> Jens Vesterdahl
> Copenhagen, Denmark

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From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@rad1.pcmail.ingr.com>
Subject: Re: LR Problems
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 96 10:48:00 CDT

Sorry, I love my D90.  I don't think I could ever part with it.   (Of course 
I think I'd also like to have a FC101 and a SerIII 109 but they'll have to 
wait!)

BTW, where is Boring, MD?  Isn't all of Maryland boring? :>
Just kidding...  Seriously, maybe we could get together and go off-roading?

Douglas Boehme
'95 Red D90 #2767
 ----------
From: LRO-Owner
Subject: Re: LR Problems
Date: Friday, July 05, 1996 9:56AM

Boehme, Doug wrote:

> I had a Honda ('92 Civic Si)...  Once...  The engine block cracked right
> after the waranty ran out.  So I bought a Land Rover.  Yeah, I know, there
> is no logical step from one to the other, except for the fact that my 
Honda
> sucked.
Doug,

Are you trying to say your D90 sucks?! Maybe we should talk $$$.

Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, MD 21020
dunsmo19@us.net

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Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 11:01:26 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Re: LR Problems

Boehme, Doug wrote:
> Sorry, I love my D90.  I don't think I could ever part with it.   (Of course
> I think I'd also like to have a FC101 and a SerIII 109 but they'll have to
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> BTW, where is Boring, MD?  Isn't all of Maryland boring? :>
> Just kidding...  Seriously, maybe we could get together and go off-roading?

Doug,

I was sure you didn't mean that but ya can't blame me for trying.  As for the Boring,
We sit in Northern Baltimore County off Route 30 midway between Glyndon and Hampstead.

Unfortunately, by '68 Ser IIa, while great for on road and light duty offroad, 
suffers from a previously wounded rear diff, which I cannot afford to presently
replace.  Therefore, I am limited to pastures and locales which are within walking
distance of the house.  But when I can afford a replacement.... (maybe at Mid Atlantic
Rover Rally)

 
Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, MD 21020
dunsmo19@us.net

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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 11:46:24 -0400
From: Michel Bertrand <mbertran@InterLinx.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: Who makes these tires?

At 10:53 96-07-05, you wrote:
Hi all.

A few months back I got new tires all around my 109. I'm quite satisfied with 
them, but they are not marked with any manufacturer's name, so I'm a bit
curious 
about where they're made.

They are called "All Season King", dimensions are 235/85 and they are made in 
the USA. That's all I know.

I suspect that some major tyre manufacturer sells these tires OEM or something. 
Does anybody know where they come from?

        I might be wrong, but I think that I saw these "All Season King" at
the local Walmart. I will check next time I have to go by.

Michel Bertrand
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada, 

1963 109 PU (Rudolph)
1968 109 SW (ex-Nada) in the works
1973 88 SW (21st century project)

Note new address: mbertran@interlinx.qc.ca

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From: g@ix.netcom.com (Gerald)
Subject: Disco rooves are ferrous
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 16:23:38 GMT

Someone on the list sent me some email a week or two ago stating that
he Disco roof is aluminum, as is the rest of the body. Funny that a
magnet sticks to mine.

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

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From: g@ix.netcom.com (Gerald)
Subject: Re: Who makes these tires?
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 16:25:33 GMT

On Fri, 05 Jul 96 10:53:02 , you wrote:

. . . .
>They are called "All Season King", dimensions are 235/85 and they are made in 
>the USA. That's all I know.

It was (and maybe still is) the case that all tires made for sale in
the U.S. (notice I did not say made in U.S.) had to have a number that
identified the manufacturer.

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

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Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 09:32:45 -0700
From: Gordon Rea <grea@net.gov.bc.ca>
Subject: Gain 80# overnight!

It's True! I gained ~20 lbs compression on each cylider when I 
did the compression tests again last night. I'm now 
at 145,140,140,140. How did I do it? Well, all I can say is that I 
probably soundn't have thrown out the little booklet that came with
the compression tester before I read it (manual? I don't need no 
stinkin' manual!). I called my brother and told him about my
low reading and he said " Did you ...". (Me)"Ahh, no. Am I suposed to?"
Here is the technical quiz of the day:
What didn't I do that caused the readings to be 20 lbs low?
First correct answer wins a pint of my homebrew, "DiabolicAle"

Cheers, Gordon
P.S. EMail me as I'm on Digest mode.

-- 

"For every problem, there is one solution which is simple, neat and
wrong."
- H.L.Mencken

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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 10:10:51 -0700
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Stoves Ltd Rainhill????

Does anyone know if Stoves Ltd Rainhill is still in business??

If they, are does anyone know if they have a parts centre where I might be
able to purchase a stove top grill for a type 0174 stove???

Stoves don't work well without a grill, or at least my arm would get very
tired holding a pan over a burner while food heats.

Thanks

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com   <- NOTE NEW ADDRESS

Celebrating my tenth year on Usenet/Internet

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Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 13:07:18 -0500
From: Jesse Furqueron <wjf@iex.com>
Subject: Re: Disco rooves are ferrous

The roof and wheelwells are ferrous metal, the body panels are an 
aluminum alloy...

Jesse

At 16:23 7/5/96 GMT, you wrote:
>Someone on the list sent me some email a week or two ago stating that
>he Disco roof is aluminum, as is the rest of the body. Funny that a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>Gerald
>g@ix.netcom.com

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Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 16:14:03 -0400
From: "Leon H. Akong" <akongl@tstt.net.tt>
Subject: Re: Gain 80# overnight!

>Here is the technical quiz of the day:
>What didn't I do that caused the readings to be 20 lbs low?
>First correct answer wins a pint of my homebrew, "DiabolicAle"

You did not remove all the spark plugs.

Jr

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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 22:32:26 +0200
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Turner and QM

Oh all my blue-eyed friends -

>>	Turner is ISO9002 approved, which covers all of this type of 
>>	quality control, documentation etc.

>Correct.  If a call to Turner for information doesn't yield results, 
>this is what I'm trying to follow up on.  The ISO9000 series of 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>the protocols make the documents public domain.  If that is the case we 
>can find out what steps Turner takes in their manufacturing.

ISO 900X just means that you have set up a quality assurance procedure (does 
not say it is good or bad), that you have documented the procedure and that 
you follow it. It definitely does *not* mean you turn out a good product, 
that is still up to what sort of procedures you follow. There is nothing to 
stop you from building Trabant cars, or whatever the current equivalent is, 
as long as you set up your quality assurance - let's say your declared 
standard is that piston diameter should not vary by more than 1/8 inch - , 
document your procedure and follow it, i.e. have somebody measuring piston 
diameter and reject everything that is more than 1/16 inch larger or smaller 
than specs. You would certainly get your ISO900X certificate, you engine 
would not necessarily be considered a good engine.

It also definitely does not make your documentation public domain. 

Now this does not mean Turner produces bad engines - I have heard only 
praise for them so far - but it does not automatically mean the opposite, 
either. 
Sorry if that destroys anybody's illusions!

Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

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From: "S. Vels" <svels@mail-server.dk-online.dk>
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 22:58:40 +0001
Subject: Re: ISO 90000

The ISO9000 system was never supposed to tell wether a product is god 
or bad. Neither was it supposed to be used by consumers.

It is supposed to be used by the industry when trading parts and sub 
assemblies to ensure that quality is always the same. Good or bad. 

Of course theres a lot of inflation in these certificates these days.

This reminds me of an Actual Reality story told by my friend who was 
on vacation on one of the Greek islands. He came across a small shop 
that sold brand T-shirts like Adidas, Marco Polo, Levis etc. 
"Hi, i would like one of those Adidas shirts"
"What color you want mister?"
"I think i'll have this grey one - medium size"
"One moment mister"
'Bump - Psssshhhh - Clunck'
"Here mister, 2 pounds!"
One steaming fresh T-shirt with an Adidas logo across the chest.

You can always get the badge you like and wear it. You can also hope 
that nobody asks where you got it.

rgds
sv/aurens

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Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 16:15:07 -0700
From: Gordon Rea <grea@net.gov.bc.ca>
Subject: technial quiz answer

Q: What caused Gordon's compression readings to be 20# low the first
   time.
A: I didn't have the throtle and choke wide open when cranking the
engine. (I think the choke was off, but throtle was at idle).

I recieved a few good guesses by not the right one. I guess I'll have
an extra pint this afternoon.

Cheers, Gordon

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Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 18:30:29 -0800
From: "Deanna D. Sitter" <lani@alaska.net>
Subject: grab bag

Martin Farrall asked about using a heavy gear oil in his swivels.  I say 
go ahead.  I have been using 140 for years now in this aplication with 
no trouble during the summers.  For our Alaska winters I use synthetic 
gear oil in all aplications, but it just leaks too much in the summer.  
I recently had the front end apart while changing to 3.8 gears and 
everything was in excelent shape.

Gordon Rea asked about using a length of rope stuffed into a cylinder 
via the spark plug hole and then bringing the piston up against it to 
hold the valves in place while changing valve seals.  It's a well proven 
trick aircraft mechanics have been using forever.  Just make sure to 
leave a six or eight inch tail sticking out for removal.  It sounds 
obvious but I know one A&P who, while in a hurry, accidentally stuffed 
the whole thing in and had to pull the cylinder to get it out.

Just a reiteration on a point made against Halon for putting out fires. 
 The fire does have a tendency to reignite.  I recently read about two 
seperate incidents of this happening on small private aircraft while in 
flight. Spooky.

As to engines, Ford SVO is selling new 5.0 v-8's complete with fuel 
injectors, manifolding, ignition, flywheel, clutch, and a few other 
things for around $2,200 US.  Sure there is a lot more to get to do a 
quality engine swap, but for around 5 grand a person could put together 
a clean well built package.

Anyone close to Oregon who is looking to get an engine swap done should 
go find Timm Cooper at Ships Mechanical in Portland.  I have known him 
for many years as he used to live here in Alaska.  He does the 
absolutely cleanest swaps I've ever seen.  He can put just about any 
engine in a Rover a person could want, GM 6's, ford V-8's, or even more 
exotic stuff such as a Caddy 472.

Tim Sitter
Peter's Creek, Alaska
U.S.A.

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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 23:46:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens)
Subject: Series IIa Window Replacement

Thanks to all who responded to my plea for help on the broken windshield. I
used all the advice: had a local glass shop cut two beautiful tinted panes;
installed them and---YIKES---cracked the driver's side while tightening a
retaining strip screw. Oh well, it gives the Rover character. Finally got
the beast back together today. New paint (marine blue and limestone);
freshly galvanized trim all around...ahhh it is better to look good than to
feel good.

Chris Stevens
Towson, MD

P.S. Need a top hoisted back on your Rover? Call Nate Dunsmore. He works
for crabs, Thanks Nate.

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From: daviscar@cris.com
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 00:41:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Nat Rally in middle is a joke

At 01:08 PM 7/5/96, you wrote:

Having a 'National' Rally in the center of the country (i.e. Sturgis, like 
we're Harley riders or something) puts it 1500 miles away from everybody 
instead of having it on one of the coasts and making it within a day's drive 
of half the Rover owners.

First Bill If half the rovers are on the east coast and half the rovers are
on the west coast, How the H**L did I get one in the midwest. You make it
sound like if you don't live on a coast you are not worth sh*t. Now I will
say the Illinios does not have the off road advatage the coasts may have but
thet just means we have to be more creative. 

Also a NEW Chicago Land Rover Club was formed about two months ago and
already has sixty  (plus) members (e-mail me for details) The WHOLE idea of
having it in the midwest was to get the most peaple possible to come and "do
it big" for the 50th

So if you can't Drive the 1500 miles or so to a midwest rally Let me know
when your plane lands we will have someone to meet YOU at the airport. (gee
don't that sound like fun!)

Now that thats been said on to another thought.

It has come up around here that the Britts do things like have a fund Raser
to ship a lr ambulance to africa or someplace that realy needs it. Well how
about doing something more with the National Rally then Just go and do the
Normal stuff (car Show, swap meet, drive off road and have a lot of fun.)
How about doing something like help the park service clean up an area of the
park like the fire roads (or even make some new ones) I am sure an offer of
couple hundred 4x4's to do something POSITIVE would not be refused and we
could still do the normal stuff.
or how about we all find some sponsers for a so much a mile charity type
thing. That way WE (all the LRs there) would be helping people as well as
having fun. Just some thoughts from the lost middle coast.

I volunteer myself to organize the east coast one next year. Anyone else wish 
to join in?

Bruce
67 SIIA 88 Patches
WANTED pre 1968 109 In USA
Daviscar@concentric.net
        Or
BDaviscar@aol.com

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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 21:54:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason B. Carroll" <jasonc@csdnet.com>
Subject: Series III Buying Advice

I am hoping that someone can give some advice to a Land Rover fan, and
hopefully future buyer. I am looking at buying a Series IIa or III 88" Land
Rover in the Portland, OR area. I have looked at a few, but I found one
recently that I am pretty interested. The vehicle in question is a 1974
Series III 88". It's in pretty good shape with a few dings and dents. The
engine has pretty even compression (with a non-standard Rochester carb),
the frame appears fine without any rust (it's been located the Pacific
Northwest). The interior is okay with some non-standard gauges, and the
middle part of the dash missing. The interior door panels are gone, and
there is a tear on the drivers seat. It has a tropical roof, and no back
seats. The current owner is a member in the local LRO club, and seems to be
a nice and honest fellow. He has redone the rear axle and gone through the
brakes, including the master cylinder.

So, it seems pretty good. The only problem is that the steering seems to
kind of jump around sometimes. The owner showed me all of linkages and
stuff for the front end, and vouches that they are in good shape. He thinks
it may be that the bushings on the leaf springs are too worn and loose, and
it's causing some slop. He said that when it's up on jacks the steering
seems fine. It isn't too bad, but does seem to be more than the standard LR
vagueness. It seems to mostly happen at 30+ MPH, when the road is bumpy or
uneven.

He is asking $7,000 for it, and he is slightly flexible. So...does anyone
have any advice, comments or criticism? If possible could you please send a
copy directly to my address since I am on the digest? Thanks!!

--Jason B. Carroll

_______________________________________

Chicken Scratch Design

E-Mail--> jasonc@csdnet.com
CompuServe --> 71234,442
http://www.csdnet.com/~csdesign

_______________________________________

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