Land Rover Owner Message Digest Contents


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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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msgSender linesSubject
1 Easton Trevor [TEASTON@D16Radiators
2 Rick Grant [rgrant@synap26Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain
3 twakeman@scruznet.com (T33Re: Fuel senders
4 Daryl Webb [dwebb@waite.28Plus - 35 badge ???
5 Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus [A5Postings being given the chop?
6 Hank_Lapa_at_PO-PLAZA1@S411948 Defender?
7 Fred Ellsworth [fellswor42re: Japanese Cigarettes
8 krm@mtnms.att.com (K.MOH23Roll bars
9 ericz@cloud9.net 15Re: Even MORE Camel Trophy bashing
10 ericz@cloud9.net 11Camel
11 "Steve Reddock" [steve_r21Camel trophy
12 "Mr Ian Stuart" [Ian.Stu25Re: Roll bars
13 "Steve Reddock" [steve_r11Gurkhas
14 Nathan Dunsmore [dunsmo111Just a Question....
15 "Boehme, Doug" [dboehme@26RE: Just a Question....
16 Gordon Rea [grea@net.gov25Is Camel Responsible for my Addiction?
17 Alirv@aol.com 7Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
18 "Jens Vesterdahl" [jve@p22Diesel vs. petrol fuel senders
19 harincar@internet.mdms.c28Re: Is Camel Responsible for my Addiction?
20 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em13Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain
21 Andy Purser [apurs@world19Re: Is Camel Responsible for my Addiction?
22 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em12Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain
23 Nathan Dunsmore [dunsmo123Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain
24 "Walter C. Swain" [wcswa38Re: Land Rover by Matchbox
25 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em14Re: Capstan recovery
26 Benjamin Allan Smith [be24[not specified]
27 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em14Re: Camel
28 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em14Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain
29 rover@pinn.net (Alexande10Camel Trophy Vehicles
30 Russell U Wilson [ruwst+21Re: Camel
31 Russell U Wilson [ruwst+19Re: Just a Question....
32 EvanD103@aol.com 18Personal to Mark Talbot
33 RALPH@SMUGGITS.MHS.Compu17101 Mailing List.
34 ecrover@midcoast.com (Mi18In the pink
35 Wdcockey@aol.com 24Re: Radiators
36 "Walter C. Swain" [wcswa23Re: LRO daily digest - nettiquette
37 Benjamin Allan Smith [be109[not specified]
38 Jim Pappas [roverhed@m3.30RE: Jim Pappas
39 "LRO Shop (North America26LRO Magazine
40 rovah@agate.net (John Ca54Camel Trophy bashing
41 "LRO Shop (North America38'Nother Moan...
42 Jon Nyhus [bmc@syspac.co20Ex-works car
43 ROSS & KAY FAIRCLOUGH [f25Thanks for last req Apr 14- NOW new prob
44 Benjamin Allan Smith [be29[not specified]
45 Andy Purser [apurs@world25Re: Land Rover by Matchbox


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From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Radiators
Date: Fri, 31 May 96 08:26:00 DST

Clinton Coates is looking for a readily available radiator to fit slightly 
forward of the original.

I suggest a visit to any competant radiator shop (Probably a non franchise 
operation) where they should be able to create something to fit into 
whatever space you have available. Maybe a unit to fit inside the existing 
bulkhead and shroud with a separate header tank. Just be sure to maintain 
the cooling capacity. ( ie less frontal area so need more rows in matrix) I 
had a local shop rebuild my SII rad and they installed an industrial six row 
core which provides lots of cooling.

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:09:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rick Grant <rgrant@synapse.net>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain

At 04:58 PM 30/05/96 -0400, Nathan Dunsmore, wrote

>tools like sledge hammers and shovels, I try to buy Craftsman since they
state they'll
>replace broken hand tools "no questions asked".  I have brought back some
seriously 
>questionable broken tools (like the wrench with the right angle bend in it)
and never
>had a problem.

When I was going to college I hard a part time job at Sears in the hardware
department.  I vividly remember replacing a pair of pliers for a customer
who had welded them shut.  Too bad the guarantee doesn't cover losing tools
in the grass.  I also have a 9/16 socket rolling around in the interior of
VORIZO's frame.  Beats me how I got it in there and there's just no way it's
ever coming out on its own.

			Rick Grant

rgrant@synapse.net			1959, SII   "VORIZO"
Ottawa, Canada

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 06:22:29 -0700
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Fuel senders

At  7:59 AM 5/31/96 +1000, Paul Nash wrote:
>Apropos fuel senders:
>I am about to relace the sender in my sIII s/w (it reads full for ~150km,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>They cost the same, and I quite like the idea of a "fill up NOW" warning
>light.

The key to genuine senders is if your car has a early sender that has a
little metal tower sticking up above the mounting plate, you need to
replace it with the same or replace your guage with a later guage at the
same time.

If you have a flat top sender you need to replace it with a flat top sender.

The resistor wire is wound in oposit directions on these two senders and
their respective guages are also wound oposit each other.

Lucas makes an inexpensive universal sender unit that fits and works fine
on the Land Rovers that take the later sender.  You need to cut the float
arm to length and solder on two clips.  The aftermarket sender does have a
low fuel warning light connection that is supposed to come on when you are
down to about 2 gallons.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com   <- NOTE NEW ADDRESS

Celebrating my tenth year on Usenet/Internet

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From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Plus - 35 badge ???
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 22:53:07 +0930 (CST)

Ok I got asked a question tonight which has me stumped.  But with a world 
full of L-R  junkies I'm sure someone will know the answer.....

the vehicle in question is an OZ delivered 1969 IIa 109 2.25 petrol.

The question is what does the "Plus - 35" badge refer to...

This is an oval, stamped alloy badge, much like the normal Land-Rover 
badge (old style), but with the wording  (and almost the arrangement):

          Plus-
            /
           - 35

What does it mean/refer too?????

any suggestions.

cheers
 -- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

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From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 31 May 96  9:44:34 EDT
Subject: Postings being given the chop?

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 10:32:07 -0400
From: Hank_Lapa_at_PO-PLAZA1@SIGNALCORP.COM (Hank Lapa)
Subject: 1948 Defender?

Mike Rooth decries the "1948 birth of the Defender product" 
statement and notes his IIA is not a Defender.  I don't 
think there's necessarily a contradiction there.  And I know 
mike's familiar with the lineage in detail.  Here's my 
logic:

We Series guys have *the* "Land-Rover."  Various versions 
and options, updated as the years went by, but in reality 
only one model, only one name.  Enter the Range (no hyphen) 
Rover.  It was *a* Land Rover (by make) but not *the* 
Land-Rover (by model).  So for the sake of symmetry, and 
logic (Finally!), what were once considered "Land-Rovers" 
became Land Rover Defenders.  If it weren't for the new 
models (RR, DISCO, and the new thing) then perhaps the 
logical thing would've been to call the Stage Is "Series 
IIIA" and Nineties and One-Tens "Series IV" or something 
along those lines.  But since logical, ordered minds nearly 
never involve themselves with marketing mayhem, and 
marketing drives everything else, the heck with it.  

Thus, I think the "Defender *product*" does indeed go back 
to the 1st Series I Land-Rover, even though the name does 
not.  Mr. Meat Loaf had his name legally changed, but that 
doesn't mean he's not the same fellow who was born under a 
more normal name.

As evidence, but not as argument, I submit that if you took 
a 1996 SWB Defender back in time to a gathering of the first 
L-R owners, they'd most all recognize it as "the 
Land-Rover," with a mysterious "Defender" badge affixed.

I like the name "Defender," but like you, would also be sure 
to point out that my 36-year-old 109 is not one.

"Paradise by the (dim Lucas) Dashpanel Lights,"
Hank  ('60 Ser II, '95 Disco)

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 10:39:34 -0500
From: Fred Ellsworth <fellswor@camb-lads.loral.com>
Subject: re: Japanese Cigarettes

This may just be my Northwest, backwoods, Libertarian upbringing, but it
seems to me y'all are approaching this cigarette thing (etc.) from the
wrong end.

Let them advertise all they want- good for the economy.  But if you decide
to smoke, I shouldn't be forced to pay for your stupidity.  Your health
insurance premiums should be raised (quadrupled, I think is the correct
figure), and not one penny of my tax dollars should go towards your
slow-death cancer therapy.  (And what's this Republican sponsored tax cut
crap for the tobacco industry, anyways??  At least it provides a nice
segue...)

Similarly, let "The Japanese" bribe all they want- I'll bet you a new
Defender that US companies outbribe Japanese companies in greater South
America by a factor of _at least_ 2.  Read the paper.  If your politicians
are accepting bribes: 1) vote them out of office 2) at least work to change
your form of government until you can 3) bribe them to do what _you_ want
them to do.

Now let's get back to Land Rovers, shall we?

Fred
"climbing down off the bonnet 'cause the soapbox wasn't tall enough"
Ellsworth

=============================================================================
  Fred Ellsworth                               fellswor@camb-lads.loral.com
  Lockheed Martin ADS                          Phone: (617) 441-2113
  Cambridge, MA  USA                           Fax:   (617) 441-2059

  Quote of the day:     Woo not the world too rashly, for behold,
                          Beneath the painted silk and broidering,
                          It is a faithless and inconstant thing.

                                             -- from "Woo Not the World"
                                                by Mu'tamid, King of Seville
                                                c. 1080

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From: krm@mtnms.att.com (K.MOHLENHOFF)
Date: Fri, 31 May 96 10:48:12 EDT
Subject: Roll bars

Hello;
I am looking into getting roll bars or cage for my 88 so I can remove 
the hardtop and still have a feeling of protection. Are there ready made
units available or are these custom made units? Do they get bolted to the
frame or the body? I would like to still be able to put the hardtop on 
over the roll bars/cage. I did some web searches and found lots of
sushi bars and rock and roll bars but no info on metal prophylactics 
for my 88".

I live in New York City.
Any info on businesses within a few states dealing with roll bars/cages for 
Land Rovers or information pertaining to the construction of roll bars/cages 
would be helpful. I would feel comfortable doing some welding since I did
some on our farm. Yes, that farm was in NYC.

Keith R. Mohlenhoff
krm@mtnms.att.com

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From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 08:00:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Even MORE Camel Trophy bashing

On Fri, 31 May 1996, M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) wrote:
>> I'd say ban the death sticks.

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>no end of good.
>Mike Rooth
The first decent bit of this entire thread about cigarettes that I've heard yet!

Eric

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From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 08:00:20 -0700
Subject: Camel

Last I checked, this list was dedicated to enjoying (?) Land Rovers, not a 
soap-box for one's political and/or social views.  This cigarette thread belongs 
somewhere else!!!

Eric

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:06:06 EDT
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Camel trophy

I look at things another way.  I don't smoke, yet I get to watch, read
about, etc. the Camel trophy.  There is no way that I will start smoking,
and I have paid no money to any cigarette company.

I also watch a lot of motor sport in general, as well as a little
competing.

I get all these benefits from cigarette companies, yet I have paid them
nothing.  Great isn't it!

I just wish they would sponsor me for motor sport...

Steve Reddock, Xyratex       | Just as he thought he had
Ext.(01705) 486363 x5209     | clinched the interview he was
IBMMAIL (GBXYR96P)           | visited by the ghost of Usenet
Steve_Reddock@uk.xyratex.com | Postings Past.

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From: "Mr Ian Stuart" <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 16:09:16 +0000
Subject: Re: Roll bars

Quoting K.MOHLENHOFF, from 31 May 96

> I am looking into getting roll bars or cage for my 88 so I can remove the
> hardtop and still have a feeling of protection. Are there ready made
> units available or are these custom made units? Do they get bolted to the
> frame or the body? I would like to still be able to put the hardtop on
> over the roll bars/cage.
Go for a custom-made job. More expensive, but a much cleaner fit!

I don't know about the USofA, but a decent roll-cage will cost 500 quid 
(UKPounds) to fit - more if you want it to be "internal".

Much of the cost is fitting strengthening plates to the chassis.

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

Quote of 1996: "A.L.S. is a good example of scottishissityness"

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:09:29 EDT
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Gurkhas

Richard, does you ex-Gurkha LR cut you every time you take it out :-)

Steve Reddock, Xyratex       | Just as he thought he had
Ext.(01705) 486363 x5209     | clinched the interview he was
IBMMAIL (GBXYR96P)           | visited by the ghost of Usenet
Steve_Reddock@uk.xyratex.com | Postings Past.

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:51:55 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Just a Question....

...My only question is should I feel bad if I'm eating an Oreo cookie when 
go to Sears 'cuz I broke my Phillips screwdriver trying to use it as a 
centerpunch on sheetmetal : }...

Nate Dunsmore
You know the rest

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From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@rad1.pcmail.ingr.com>
Subject: RE: Just a Question....
Date: Fri, 31 May 96 13:04:00 CDT

Only if you forgot to bring milk.

I replaced a hammer that had bent 90deg forward at the head and had been   
using the claw part of the hammer to chip away ice that had frozen one of   
my D90 tires to the ground.  If they don't ask, I won't tell.  Of course,   
did I buy an ice pick afterwards?  Nope, just used my new hammer the next   
time...

Douglas Boehme
'95 Red D90 #2767

 ----------

...My only question is should I feel bad if I'm eating an Oreo cookie   
when
go to Sears 'cuz I broke my Phillips screwdriver trying to use it as a
centerpunch on sheetmetal : }...

Nate Dunsmore
You know the rest

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 10:23:01 -0700
From: Gordon Rea <grea@net.gov.bc.ca>
Subject: Is Camel Responsible for my Addiction?

I have always blamed those Camel cigarette ads in magazines for 
my dirty, smelly, dangerous, expensive addiction. How else could I
explain being brought up in middle-class, white bread, "Chevy"
familly, and end up owning a LandRover?
I remember seeing advertisements showing some macho guy sitting
on his Landrover in the middle of nowhere, smoking a "Camel" and
contemplating life. I never took up smoking, but I suspected that
the LandRover stuck in my impressionable young mind. 

While at a family dinner a few weeks back (my father tells me to park
the LandRover down the street when I visit), my mother brought out 
a box of my old toys for my sister's kids to play with. I'm looking
at my old toy cars and...Whats This! A SIIb Forward Control LandRover!
Obviously this was the root cause of my Landyphillia! 
Ah-Ha, my parents are to blame!
I confiscated the toy so as to spare my nephew this affliction.

Cheers,
Gordon
1965 IIa SWB "Sherpa"

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From: Alirv@aol.com
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 13:28:11 -0400
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST PLEASE

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Date: Fri, 31 May 96 19:10:06 
From: "Jens Vesterdahl" <jve@phaseone.dk>
Subject: Diesel vs. petrol fuel senders

Hi all.

On 31 May 1996, Paul Nash wrote:

>Does anyone know whether the resistor is the same for petrol & diesel models?
>They cost the same, and I quite like the idea of a "fill up NOW" warning
>light.

Well, since the sender in my 4cyl petrol appears to be from a diesel tank, I'd 
say they are very similar. When the gauge reads "half full", the tank is half 
full and so on. The fact that I have to guess how much is in the tank when it's 
below half is probably due to my clumsy wiring job.

Happy Rovering

Jens Vesterdahl
Copenhagen, Denmark

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From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 12:15:27 -0500
Subject: Re:  Is Camel Responsible for my Addiction?

My addition was more subtle. I was first enamoured with the Toyota FJ-40,
and watched it rust out from under me over two winters. Literally. Every time
I drive it, something or other was breaking off - the spare carrier, turn
signals, door hasps, etc.

For the record, I *know* that camel ads also used FJ-40s. There was one where
the Macho Guy (tm) was rafting one accross some jungle river or other.

I switched to the Rover a) because one was available when i was looking to
replace the toyota and b) because the body wouldn't rust and c) because
I wouldn't have to pass emmissions tests with it. I also wasn't too thrilled
with mid 70s Japanese auto products in general, either.

However, I too, when going through my childhood "box of cars" found an old
LR - the matchbox IIa 109 station wagon. It now sits atop my monitor. So there
must have been some memories hiding in there...

Tim
--
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 13:56:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain

On Thu, 30 May 1996, Greg Moore wrote:

> >CT never asked whether I had six feet of pipe on the 3/4" drive...
> You must be a site bigger than I am. I need 12-15' of extension to break 
> my wrenches :-)

	Stood on the bumper and kinda stepper out onto the bar.  Basically,
	the sockets must mabe been flawed.  ythey broke far too easily.

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 18:13:53 GMT
From: Andy Purser <apurs@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re:  Is Camel Responsible for my Addiction?

At 05:15 PM 5/31/96 +0000, you wrote:
 There was one where
>the Macho Guy (tm) was rafting one accross some jungle river or other.

>Tim

     That statement brought back the memories! Wasn't that a M-37 3/4 ton
Military Dodge Tk. used in the rafting ad. I remember him squating down in
front of the M-37 and the Grill/Winch bumper area stood out in the
background. Like you guys I too have a toy LR from my childhood. It was a
Corgi Jr. Ser.III pickup, green in color but 109" rather than 88" like my
real green, LR, Ser III
Pickup. Life is strange.
Andy

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 14:15:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain

On Fri, 31 May 1996, Rick Grant wrote:

> who had welded them shut.  Too bad the guarantee doesn't cover losing tools
> in the grass.  I also have a 9/16 socket rolling around in the interior of

	Hmm, would they replace the 1/2" spanner bouncing around in my
	exhaust system?  Know where it is... :-(  (Long story...)

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 14:11:58 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain

Dixon Kenner wrote:
 
> On Thu, 30 May 1996, Greg Moore wrote:
> > >CT never asked whether I had six feet of pipe on the 3/4" drive...
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>         Stood on the bumper and kinda stepper out onto the bar.  Basically,
>         the sockets must mabe been flawed.  ythey broke far too easily.

I think my 7/8" socket was flawed...when I put the 3' section of pipe on 
the socket handle, held it tight, and pounded on the end of the pipe with
the short handled, NOT THE LONG HANDLED MIND YOU, sledgehammer,
...it broke!

Oh yeah, the socket handle slips a tooth now too... which reminds me, I've
gotta take THAT back pretty soon...

Nate Dunsmore
You know the rest

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:27:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Land Rover by Matchbox

Hi All.

Apparently Matchbox does not have it's collective act together.  I called
and was told that they *NEVER* break up a set.  I asked the operator to 
check with his supervisor, and got the same answer again.  

I was given the name and phone number of a couple of dealers that
supposedly buy sets and sell the vehicles separartely.  I'm not too keen
about spending my time and money chasing a product that they don't want to
sell, so I guess I'll let it go.  A couple of years ago I did call some
dealers and encountered sheer flakiness.  I never got any of the materials
they said they would send. 

If anybody else has success with ordering the LR Fire Engine Set, could 
they please get the operators name or number and post it so that the rest 
of us could order through him or her?  Thanks

Cheers,

Walt          * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network |                               *
              * Davis, California       | 1988 Range Rover- "Lady Jane" *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

On Thu, 30 May 1996, Andy Purser wrote:

> Hello,
>      I received a pkg today from Matchbox Collectibles Inc. (USA) that I'd
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)]
> Take Care
> Andy
> '73 Series III 88" Pickup

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 14:59:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Capstan recovery

On Thu, 30 May 1996, Alexander P. Grice wrote:

> Chef "Head Wound Harry" Bligh of the Ottawa Valley club related one episode 
> with a capstan winch he had.  He parked the Rover near a fire and with a 
> loop of rope 'round the bollard, the Rover happily turned a side of beef on 
> a spit all day long.  Try *that* with a Warn.  Cheers

	Birthday Party about seven years ago or so...  Looks like this is what
	we will be doing again this year at the Birthday Party on June 21-23.

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Subject: Re: Camel 
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 12:22:01 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <bulk.1000.19960531075913@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you wrote:

> Last I checked, this list was dedicated to enjoying (?) Land Rovers, not a 
> soap-box for one's political and/or social views.  This cigarette thread belo
> somewhere else!!!

	Eric, the question that started all of this was about sponsorship
of an event that exclusivly uses Land Rovers and whether we should care that
such a LR event is sponsored by (in some people's minds) a dubious sponsor.
So the topic is vaguely LR related.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 15:31:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Camel 

On Fri, 31 May 1996, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote:

> 	Eric, the question that started all of this was about sponsorship
> of an event that exclusivly uses Land Rovers and whether we should care that
> such a LR event is sponsored by (in some people's minds) a dubious sponsor.
> So the topic is vaguely LR related.

	I think it is a dubious event.  Sponsorship follows later in the 
	equation for me.  

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 15:34:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain

On Fri, 31 May 1996, Nathan Dunsmore wrote:

> I think my 7/8" socket was flawed...when I put the 3' section of pipe on 
> the socket handle, held it tight, and pounded on the end of the pipe with
> the short handled, NOT THE LONG HANDLED MIND YOU, sledgehammer,
> ...it broke!

	Welding the socket to shackle bolts for easier removal, cutting the
	bolt off does wonders too for thier longevity... :-)

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 15:45:11 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Camel Trophy Vehicles

WRT the thread on Camel Trophy vehicle selections, the subject of 130's came 
up.  The last time these were used as Africa four (five?) years ago, and two 
of them suffered cracked frames.  The wheel bases were just too long for the 
pounding they were taking.  Then again, these were stuffed to the gunwales 
with sapre transmissions, diffs, tools, etc....

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 16:41:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Camel

On Fri, 31 May 1996 ericz@cloud9.net wrote:

> Last I checked, this list was dedicated to enjoying (?) Land Rovers, not a 
> soap-box for one's political and/or social views.  This cigarette thread belongs 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> somewhere else!!!
> Eric> 
I for one enjoyed the topic. It's always fun to have an *intelligent* 
conversation with someone that may not share your views on a subject. It 
was Land Rover related. This was the whole point of the conversation.It was 
Just a matter of to what degree was the point of contention.

Russ W.
Very, Very  Un-P.C.

"Coil springs are for pogosticks"

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 16:46:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Just a Question....

On Fri, 31 May 1996, Nathan Dunsmore wrote:

> ...My only question is should I feel bad if I'm eating an Oreo cookie when 
> go to Sears 'cuz I broke my Phillips screwdriver trying to use it as a 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> Nate Dunsmore
> You know the rest

You should only feel bad about this if you stole the Oreo from some kid 
in the toy department.

Russ W.
67 swb
"The Pig"

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From: EvanD103@aol.com
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 17:13:03 -0400
Subject: Personal to Mark Talbot

Mark, 
   Either America Online can't send a memo to your E-mail address or you've
been out of town.  Thinking that the former may be the case I'm using the LRO
Digest to try to get to you.  I know the others on the list would not read
something personal.
Mark - if you'll E-mail me your snail-mail address I'll send you a check for
the LR grill.  If others send me their addresses thinking they'll get checks
too I'll know there is no honor among L-R owners....  Just kidding folks.
Sincerely
Erik van Dyck
Stone Mountain, Georgia
'71 Ser III  88"

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From: RALPH@SMUGGITS.MHS.CompuServe.COM
Date: 31 May 96 17:30:33 EDT
Subject: 101 Mailing List.

Just in case you don't get enough eMail from the various other lists you 
are on, I am currently in the process of setting up a mailing list for 
101 owners and interested parties, if you are interested in participating 
send me a message and I'll send you the details. If you know any 101 
people on eMail, but not on the List, could you forward this on to them,

Thanks,

Ralph

101 FC.

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 19:10:34 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: In the pink

Dear all and Jim Pappas,
        Hey Jim...Myles Murphy called me today and said you have purchased
a 109 Pink Panther from Dunsfold Land Rover Museum!!! Tell me, us, about
it! Where is it and when call we see it!!!!
        Fill us in!

From: Mike Smith
East Coast Rover Co.                    207.594.8086
21 Tolman Road  *Rt. 90*                207.594.8120 fax
Warren, Maine 04864                     ecrover@midcoast.com
    Land Rover Service, Sales, Restoration, and More
        Series Coil Chassis Specialists

------------------------------
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From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 19:18:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Radiators

When replacing a radiator with a custom built replacement Trevor reminds us
to:
> Just be sure to maintain 
>the cooling capacity. ( ie less frontal area so need more rows in matrix) I 
>had a local shop rebuild my SII rad and they installed an industrial six row

>core which provides lots of cooling.

This can get tricky. A thicker core or more fins per inch means more heat
transfer per unit airflow .... but less airflow due to increased airflow
restriction. With a sufficently deep radiator you can actually lose cooling
capacity, particularly with an electric fan. This doesn't mean going to a
thinner radiator when reducing face area, just be careful with increased
depth. OTOH modern radiators should be much more efficient than the LR
design, at least SII vintage. In designing a radiator, nothing beats
increasing face area to increase cooling capacity.

David Cockey

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 17:38:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: LRO daily digest - nettiquette

On Sat, 1 Jun 1996 noelp@waalpha.wa.bom.gov.au wrote:

> Suggestion for all LRO digest contributors:

> Whilst most stories and tales of landie/rangie exploits make fascinating reading,
> Could I suggest some standard proceedures that would make life a little easier for 
> most people in trying to read your contribution:

<much deleted in the spirit of band width conservation>

I certainly endorse these pithy points (where are all the AR netiquette
cops when you need them?) and add my personal favorite, narrowing margins
so we don't get one word lines, every other line.  
Everybody's a critic.... 

Rgds, 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis, California       | 1988 Range Rover- "Lady Jane" *

------------------------------
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Subject: Re: Even MORE Camel Trophy bashing 
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 17:45:18 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <bulk.26434.19960530204733@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you wrote:

	Micheal, you and I alway seem to disagree, eh? :)

> >of cigarattes.  Most won't notice the the font used for Camel on the
> >cigs is the same as on the Discos.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>  yellow Land-Rovers with "Camel" on them as not being the same as Camel
>  cigarettes.

	An informal survey that I did around my lab where people didn't
know that the Camel Trophy was part of RJ Reynolds Nabisco, Inc.

>  You *almost* got it right!
>  The monster looks more like this when standing up.

	I just spend the afternoon looking that the SEC (Security and
Exchange Commission) records on this beast.  The parent company is
RJ Reynolds Nabisco Holding company with owns 97% of the voting power of
RJ Reynolds Nabisco, Inc (by only 80% of the econimic interest).  Prudential
Life Insurance has a 6.4% share of RJRN, Inc and the Swiss Bank Corporation
has a 5.9% interest.

The Coroporation looks like this (each indent is a layer deeper in ownership)

  
RJ Reynolds Nabisco Holding Corp
    RJ Reynolds Nabisco, Inc.
        RJ Reynolds Tobacco Company (~$4 billion in sales/year)
             Cigarettes: Camel, Winston, Doral, Salem, Vantage, Monarch, Now,
                         Best Value, Sterling, Magna & Century
	RJ Reynold International, Inc  ($3.2 billion in sales/year)
	Nabisco Holding Corp (~5.6 billion in sales/ year)
             Food Products including: Oreos, Chips Ahoy!, Fig Newtons,
                  Snackwell's, Ritz, Life Savers, A.1, ***Grey Poupon***, Milk-
                  Bone, Cream of Wheat, Fleischmann's and Blue Bonnet. 
        Nabisco, Ltd.
	Worldwide Brands, Inc.  (Delaware)
        Worldwide Brands Inc. Sdn. Bhd. (Malaysia) 
        Worldwide Brands International (Hong Kong) Limited
        [And maybe 100 more....]

	The Camel Tropy is a registered trademark of Worldwide Brands, Inc.
Since the company exists in parallel to the Tobacco part of the company, the
Camel Trophy has as much to do with cigarette (in a legal sence) as Grey
Poupon mustard or Oreo cookies.  

>  Saying that the Camel Trophy is not Camel Cigarettes and RJ Reynolds
>  is like saying that a leg is not part of an animal but a different
>  entity.  I say lets cut CT off of the beast and see where it bleeds!

	By this logic so is A.1 steak sauce.

>  Point in fact, autosports is one of the categories exempt from the US
>  ban on cigarette advertising, and so RJ Reynolds advertises their brand
>  "Camel" all over Land-Rovers which they sponsor in the Camel Trophy.

	What ban?  I saw a Camel Joe billboard this morning.  The latest
Four Wheeler Magaize that I got yesterday had a 2 page add for Marlboro.

>  Let's not be so myopic and not recognize that "Camel" equals "Camel".
>  Certainly the typography and artwork matches, as do the colors of the
>  of the vehicles match the cigarette packs.  

	Every Camel pack that I've seen was white with a yellow camel (camels
are yellow you know) and yellow sand on the bottom (sand tends to be yellow).
I think that they keep the name and font because it is recognized for being
the Camel Tropy (for the last 17 years).   The CT logo advertises itself.

>  Let's not pretend that it is merely coincidence that only the most 
> photogenic young specimens are chosen for the guise of "the Olympics of 
> 4 wheel drive" and displayed in meaningless physical exertions.

	Can't the same thing be said about any contest that features human
endurance?  From people who have been to the US trials and talked to Tom
Collins, the US team is selected based on how they perform at the Trials
and not how good they look.  And it depends upon what you define to be 
be young.  The sucessful candidates tend to be around 30.  I do agree that
most of the CT now is "meaningless physical exertions".

>  True, however GE doesn't attempt to link their
>  products and get our young to buy and use GE weapons by shoving
>  appliances in our face.

	Once I see a person on the CT smoking a RJReynolds product in an add,
then I'll think that they are trying to use the CT to sell cigarettes.  Until
then I just don't buy it.

>  I say that Land-Rover owners of fine four-wheel drives shouldn't be
>  stigmatised by the RJR connection.  Let Land-Rover find another partner
>  with a less savory reputation, and make a Trophy event that we owners
>  and the press can really get enthused about.  Wake up LRNA!!

	If LR (UK) or LRNA did that I would heartily support it.  Until then,
we have the CT, like it or not.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------
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From: Jim Pappas <roverhed@m3.pcix.com>
Subject: RE: Jim Pappas
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 23:41:27 -0400
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dixon:

New ISP = roverhed@pcix.com = lots cheaper than interserv. They are gonzo.

cheers
Jim

PS - see you at Owl's Head?

----------
From: 	Dixon Kenner[SMTP:dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca]
Sent: 	Wednesday, May 29, 1996 5:21 AM
Subject: 	Re: Jim Pappas

> Jim Pappas - please e-mail me direct when you get the chance.
	This worked a while ago...

	jim pappas <jpappa01@InterServ.Com>
	

------ =_NextPart_000_01BB4F45.14462660

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:11:02 -0400
From: "LRO Shop (North America)" <lroshop@idirect.com>
Subject: LRO Magazine

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:22:07 -0400 (-0400)
From: rotero@ing.puc.cl (Rodrigo Otero)
Subject: LR Magazine

Hi everybody.

Can someone recommend a good Land Rover magazine that is worth subscribing to ?
In Chile there are some decent 4WD magazines but I want something specific
for LR.
My 1964 109 is in excellent  working conditions (after  draining my wallet)
but I would like to gear it up for the many horrible (but beautiful) roads
of this country.
By the way if anybody is interested in Rovering in the far south of South
America (Chile) just drop me a line.

>There are two magazines available specific to Land Rover.  Land Rover Owner
>International we can help you with at lroshop@idirect.com
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>folks on the Digest who can point you in the right direction.
>Regards Kevin

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:18:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: rovah@agate.net (John Cassidy)
Subject: Camel Trophy bashing

Micael Carridine wrote,

>Some say don't buy their products, a concept that doesn't work for
>owners of Land-Rovers of pre Camel Trophy vintage.  Someone remarked
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>products and get our young to buy and use GE weapons by shoving
>appliances in our face.

I don't buy this last bit Michael...Just because a company does not
disclose it's other commercial enterprises to certain groups of consumers,
does not mean that that company, or the product that you're buying is
"good."  I mean good from an ethical/moral standpoint, which is what I
think you're implying.  I read from the above that if I buy a Discovery
because I see it in the Camel Trophy, I am indirectly supporting the sale
of cigarettes by RJ Reynolds by association.  But if I go down to the store
and purchase a washer from GE, I can sleep soundly at night because I am
ignorant of the fact that most of GE's income is due to weapon systems
sales?
      I have yet to see a package of Camels whipped out by a CT competitor,
who with a smile on his face, looks into the camera and says...buy a Disco
and smoke Camels and you'll look as good as I do.  I do not see how
watching a bunch of yellow and black trucks slogging through the
forest/jungle is going to encourage any youngster to run to the local
corner store for a pack of Camels.  Money for these events have to come
from somewhere...perhaps we would all "feel," better by having another
sponsor take over the Trophy, but I bet that if you dug hard enough, you'd
find questionable practices in any business.  I guess it makes it ok if no
one tells you though....
        A personal example of product endorsement which upset me.  I wear
ties made and sold by the "Save the Children" foundation.  I liked the
designs, and some of the money went to the fund.  I saw a news documentary
a couple of months ago showing how hardly any money reaches the children at
all.  They profiled a Native American community that was promised funds
years ago, yet hasn't seen any.  I continue to wear the ties(I like the
design), but I no longer tell those that comment on them that they are made
and sold by a group that fails to help children.  We all make the best
decisions about purchasing and using products that we can, but that does
not insure integrity of that product.

Just my 2 cents!  John

P.S.  I seriously never knew(up until a few years ago..that the Camel in
the CT was Camel Cigarettes!

John Cassidy
Bangor, Maine USA

2 Wheels: Ducati M900, Velocette Thruxton, Moto Morini 350S
4 Wheels: 1995 Discovery, 1987 Range Rover, 1966 Series IIA

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:24:52 -0400
From: "LRO Shop (North America)" <lroshop@idirect.com>

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:15:52 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: 'Nother Moan...

While we are moaning:-)LRW magazine had an interview with the current
MD of Land Rover.Current issue(I think),in which he is quoted as
saying"From our birth with the Defender product in 1948...."
WHAT Defender product??? I dont know about the other Series Drivers,but
I dont drive a Defender

If you step back and look at the situation carefully a Land Rover was always
a Land Rover until the launch of the Range Rover.  Then along comes the
Discovery which confuses the issue still further.  You have to remember in
all of this that you are dealing with the British who can't cope with a lot
of confusion, any more than they can cope with quality control.  The Irish
have an even harder time.

The Defender is the logical development of the only real Land Rover and
should be known as the Series IV.  This of course was destined to create
even greater confusion for the brits who don't understand the roman
numbering system.  The Irish can't count and the scots believe that anything
greater than 1 must be too expensive.

This left Land Rover with a real marketing problem.  Answer = call them all
Land Rover's but use different model names, hence Defender, Discovery and
Range Rover.  Asd far as Land Rover were concerned this solved all the
problems in the UK (to hell with the rest of the world) and everybody is happy.

Or are they?  Along came the germans, bought the company and decide to
create even greater confusion by suggesting it will called a BMW Defender,
Discovery and Range Rover, but thats another story for another day.

At least it might solve the quality control problems!

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 20:46:06 -0700
From: Jon Nyhus <bmc@syspac.com>
Subject: Ex-works car

       I am sell my 1991 Range Rover, County SE.  It's a true Land Rover
ex-works vehicle used here in Phoenix in the hot enviroment testing
programme.  I purchased it directly from Land Rover of North America several
years ago before I quit working for them. As far as I know there are only
about 1 dozen in the whole world that have been ever sold.   If any one is
interested purchasing leave me e-mail.

Regards,  Jon
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
British Motor Classics, Ltd.,   8828 N. Black Canyon Hwy #1,  Phoenix,  AZ
85051  USA
           602.995.2028     FAX 602.995.1909     E-Mail  bmc@syspac.com  
British auto restoration for all marques, Car sales & locating service,
Spares sales

------------------------------
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From: ROSS & KAY FAIRCLOUGH <fax.rescue@hunterlink.net.au>
Subject: Thanks for last req Apr 14- NOW new prob
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 14:01:04 +-1000

PREV Problem solved by Alan Logue >Help.."Castrol" is a genuine 88" 1964 =

NEW PROB
'Castrol' has blown head - cracked - and recond head it right now =
sitting on block. I followed thread on May 21 'bout head jobs, and I =
looked in FAQ, and i have gen manual BUT the torque sttings on head =
bolts seem to be vague.
The man. says 65ftp for half inch (rocker shaft) and 18ftp for five =
sixteen bolts.
Except for said rocker gear bolts, my head bolts are three quarters..
Next move please..
"Castrol" '64 Ex-Army 11a 88 Regular. 
NEW HOME PAGE feat. 6x6 SASR brochure etc under const.
(I can exch brochures)
http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~derf/   
All claims for driveway stains to
Mssrs Smudge, Leek and Scrubbit
Po Box 814 Charlestown NSW 2290
...........................................

------------------------------
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Subject: Re: Thanks for last req Apr 14- NOW new prob 
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:27:00 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <bulk.7580.19960531210404@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you wrote:

> i have gen manual BUT the torque sttings on head bolts seem to be vague.
> The man. says 65ftp for half inch (rocker shaft) and 18ftp for five =
> sixteen bolts.
> Except for said rocker gear bolts, my head bolts are three quarters..

	The bolts that attach the head to the block on the 2.25L petrol engine
(there are about 18 of them) should be torqued to 65 ft-lbs in the pattern 
that the book shows (basically you start at the middle and move outwards,
alternating sides)

	The rocker shaft bolts (5 of them--I seem to recall a US 1/2"
socket fitting) should be torqued to 18 ft-lbs.  (I usually only tighten these 
by feel).  The head bolts I tighten to the specs.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 06:00:23 GMT
From: Andy Purser <apurs@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Land Rover by Matchbox

At 06:27 PM 5/31/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi All.

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>and was told that they *NEVER* break up a set.  I asked the operator to 
>check with his supervisor, and got the same answer again.  

Hey,
     I sent out the msg about the LR, sorry for the trouble. This may help
my order # was       -94623*1
the SKU is           -yfe02a
Customer #           -204161
and it was ordered 05/20/96 and I received it the day the msg was sent. That
was really quick service. I did charge it on plastic. I don't mind if you
use the info above to inquire further. What is fair for one should be fair
for everyone!
Also, one other fellow sent a msg, I think yesterday, and said his was on
the way!
Good luck,
Andy Purser

------------------------------
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  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 45 lines 1833 [forwarded 168 whitespace 451]
 Output: lines 1386 [content 759  forwarded 112 (cut  56) whitespace 421]

Land Rover Owner Subscription Information:

	* All new subscription requests are via the digest. *

In addition so subscribing and unsubscribing, the Frequently Asked
Questions (FAQ) file and the last month of daily digests may be retrieved
(by mail) from majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

Useful commands for this are 'index lro-digest' which returns a list of
files available, as well as 'get lro-digest <filename>', etc.

World Wide Web Sites start at
	 http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/~majordom/lr/pages.html
(shadow) http://www.Senie.com/billc/lr/pages.html

If majordomo barfs at something, and you're convinced he should have 
understood what you sent him, contact majordomo-owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net

  -B
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