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1 michelbe@login.net (Mich46Re: Leaf springs for 109 - Hvy Duty?
2 Nathan Dunsmore [dunsmo141Re: A new LR Owner (Fool?)
3 David William Scott [bir12Doormobile
4 "Ron Franklin" [oldhaven26Re: Doormobile
5 "Bob Frey" [frey@smtp.pv18ATF in Manual Transmissions
6 Greg Moore [gmoore@comox17Re: McNamara lockers?
7 IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILL21More Camel Trophy bashing
8 Greg Moore [gmoore@comox12Re: Brake adjusters and electric fans
9 harincar@internet.mdms.c18brake adjusters
10 "Boehme, Doug" [dboehme@28RE: D-90 Roll cage cracks.
11 "Steve Reddock" [steve_r32Misting problems?
12 Nathan Dunsmore [dunsmo120Re: ATF in Manual Transmissions
13 marsden@digicon-egr.co.u20Re: Brake adjusters and electric fans
14 Greg Moore [gmoore@comox18Re: Brake adjusters and electric fans
15 "Bob Frey" [frey@smtp.pv11Re(2): D-90 Roll cage cracks.
16 "Boehme, Doug" [dboehme@21More Camel Trophy bashing
17 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M18Re: Misting problems?
18 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M15Re: More Camel Trophy bashing
19 "Mr Ian Stuart" [Ian.Stu25Re: More Camel Trophy bashing
20 marsden@digicon-egr.co.u15Re: More Camel Trophy bashing
21 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M14Re: More Camel Trophy bashing
22 John Putnam [jdputnam@pa16Diff Drain
23 "Boehme, Doug" [dboehme@35RE: More Camel Trophy bashing
24 Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus [A5Re: Diff Drain
25 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em15Re: Diff Drain
26 Gregspitz@aol.com 8Re: Impromptu Survey
27 harincar@internet.mdms.c19Re: Diff Drain
28 Andy Purser [apurs@world17Pick-up Cab
29 debrown@srp.gov 47Winch mount bumper for RR, rock sliders.
30 Benjamin Allan Smith [be29[not specified]
31 "Walter C. Swain" [wcswa49Re: Winch mount bumper for RR, rock sliders.
32 RALPH@SMUGGITS.MHS.Compu26Re: More Camel Trophy bashing
33 Benjamin Allan Smith [be56[not specified]
34 Benjamin Allan Smith [be21[not specified]
35 Benjamin Allan Smith [be28[not specified]
36 Benjamin Allan Smith [be21[not specified]
37 Gregspitz@aol.com 8Re: Winch mount bumper for RR, rock sliders.
38 Richard Maynard [101723.21Bonnet mounted washer jets
39 harincar@internet.mdms.c26Re: More Camel Trophy bashing
40 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob20Re[2]: Diff Drain
41 Nathan Dunsmore [dunsmo121Re: Bonnet mounted washer jets
42 harincar@internet.mdms.c27Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain
43 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em18Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain
44 harincar@internet.mdms.c24wiring accessories
45 Nathan Dunsmore [dunsmo125Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain
46 Russell U Wilson [ruwst+18Re: Diff Drain
47 Russell U Wilson [ruwst+46Re: More Camel Trophy bashing
48 Wdcockey@aol.com 19Re: Parking Brake
49 Wdcockey@aol.com 20Re: More Camel Trophy bashing
50 ecrover@midcoast.com (Mi28Toys and stuff
51 rotero@ing.puc.cl (Rodri22LR Magazine
52 "Deanna D. Sitter" [lani26McNamara lockers
53 Benjamin Allan Smith [be49[not specified]
54 James Kirkpatrick - INEN6Subscribe
55 Wdcockey@aol.com 14Re: More Camel Trophy bashing
56 SACME@aol.com 26 Washer Jets--Sheesh!
57 Greg Moore [gmoore@comox13Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain
58 rover@pinn.net (Alexande43Capstan recovery
59 rover@pinn.net (Alexande12Camel redux
60 twakeman@scruznet.com (T26Re: Diff Drain
61 Michael Carradine [cs@cr95Even MORE Camel Trophy bashing
62 IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILL55Bash, Bash, Bash...OK, I'm done.
63 Daryl Webb [dwebb@waite.26Camel stuff
64 paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul N25Re: Fuel senders
65 Daryl Webb [dwebb@waite.52Re: holden stuff
66 Allan Smith [smitha@cand44Re: More Camel Trophy bashing
67 Benjamin Allan Smith [be24[not specified]
68 Benjamin Allan Smith [be31[not specified]
69 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M23'Nother Moan...
70 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M16Re: More Camel Trophy bashing
71 "Mr Ian Stuart" [Ian.Stu19Re: More Camel Trophy bashing
72 marsden@digicon-egr.co.u24Re: More Camel Trophy bashing
73 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M15Re: LR Magazine
74 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M10Re: Even MORE Camel Trophy bashing
75 Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-m5Re: 'Nother Moan...
76 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M13Re: Camel stuff
77 Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus [A5Temperature Sender fittings


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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 08:31:05 -0400
From: michelbe@login.net (Michel)
Subject: Re: Leaf springs for 109 - Hvy Duty?

Hank was asking a few questions

>recommendation - regular or heavy-duty (military) - when 
>ordering "genuine"? 

I have heavy-duty springs on my 109 Pickup. If I would have to do it again,
I probably wouldn't go that route. The reason is simple: to have a
comfortable ride, you have to load a few Land Rover transmissons, 3 diffs, a
complete 2,25 engine, and some gunk and rust in the rear bed. You do not
carry that kind of load everyday. If you do, well go for it, it's worth it.
I also have the military shackles which increase the ride height. I have
genuine springs in the front and aftermarket in the back. I don't think that
it does make much of a difference, though, time will tell (it's been 2 years)

 What are the trade-offs?  Will mil 
>springs increase height?

I am not sure if they will increase height, but the military shackles will. 

    Also, I recollect that there's a Rancho shock 
>that's favored for leaf-sprung Series vehs.  Which is it, 
>and is it really better than the rest?

Front 109, HD, Rancho RS5164
Rear 109, HD, Rancho RS5402 

They come with the bushings, and I find them pretty good, but only time will
tell. They don't leak, are not rusted, and seem to be tough enough for the job.

If you have any other question, just ask,

Hope it helps, 

Michel Bertrand
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada
             ______________________ 
 >>>>>>>>>>>|__________|| ()|______| 1963 IIA 109 PU (top is off) (Rudolph)
            |          ||---|  /\ |  and friends (109 SW + 88 sw) (not shown) 
            |__________||---|_ \/_| 
 >>>>>>>>>>>|__________||___|______|
                                             

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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 08:21:37 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Re: A new LR Owner (Fool?)

Sharon & Patrick Mulheren wrote:
> Hi,
> Help! ... I paid $3,300 ...

Sounds like it may be reasonably priced for my area (mid-Atlantic States)

> 1)  Hot Foot!  The panel (firewall?) by the gas pedal seems to get =
> extremely hot after the LR warms up a bit.  

If you have Left hand drive, it is almost certainly the exhaust pipe running past.
You may be missing a heat shield.  I think insulation is the only other help.

> 2)  There is a tremendous amount of play in the steering.  How do I go =
> about tightening it up?  I looked on the steering column and saw a nut =
> on top of the column and one on the side.  Would it be either of those?  =

This is tougher.  The first thing to check is tie-rod ends! if worn out, it can spell 
disaster (If they let go, the wheels will be uncontrollable, and a collision an almost 
certainty).  If they're o.k.  then you can take a breath and start down the system.  
Tires out of round or unbalanced?  Swivel balls ok?  Front end aligned?  steering 
linkages tight?  Steering box filled and properly adjusted (not worn bearing surfaces)?
 
> 3)  Sometimes on the highway when I "gun" it a bit (relatively speaking =
> with a diesel!), the LR begins to shimmy back and forth to the point =
> where I have to come to a stop and start over again (this was in 2WD =
> with the hubs unlocked).  It feels like a wheel is about to come off, =
> but it's not that.  Any ideas?

See number 2.  It may all be related.

Good Luck, get a service manual, a good hand cleaner and a 7/16" wrench!

Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, MD 21020
dunsmo19@us.net

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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 08:25:21 -0500
From: David William Scott <birddog@mindspring.com>
Subject: Doormobile

Picked up a 109 65 stw with Martin doormobile conversion seats(only) this
wkend.  frame shot but otherwise pretty decent.  I am trying to decide what
I will do about the frame.  Has anyone out there any experience with the
coil frame conversions.  I have several 109 frames from southern pickups
that are free of any structural rust but am still debating going with a
galvinized frame with all the work that is involved.  birddog....note to
bill adams 2 Harleys, Westsail 32 8 LR's; 3rd wife

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From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@biddeford.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 09:54:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Doormobile

On 30 May 96 at 8:25, David William Scott wrote:

> Picked up a 109 65 stw with Martin doormobile conversion seats(only) this
> wkend.  frame shot but otherwise pretty decent.  I am trying to decide what
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
> galvinized frame with all the work that is involved.  birddog....note to
> bill adams 2 Harleys, Westsail 32 8 LR's; 3rd wife

I suggest you get in touch with our local expert, Mike Smith at East Coast 
Rover.  He can tell you all you need to know about coil conversions pro and 
con.  ecrover@midcoast.com or 207-594-8086.  He is also very knowledgeable 
about Dormobiles.  I am also doing a coil conversion of a 109, with a 
Dormobile top, and wish I 
had talked to Mike before I started.  Would have saved me a lot of digging.

Rgds,
Ron Franklin
First wife hanging in there, to my surprise

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

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Date: 30 May 1996 06:47:26 -0700
From: "Bob Frey" <frey@smtp.pvr.com>
Subject: ATF in Manual Transmissions

Current productions LR's are supplied with ATF as a manual transmission =
lubricant. The transfer case and swivel pin housings use gear oil. Can =
80wt. hypoid gear oil be used in the newer transmissions or are run outs =
and clearances set up for the thinner ATF. Why ATF? I know that many =
manual transmissions (mostly of the japanese persuasion) have used ATF =
for the past several years. I've been under the impression that this =
allowed slicker shifting etc. but have always been a bit wary of the =
lubrication properties at high load/extreme conditions. Any thoughts? =
It's not that I particulary miss the sulfer smell of gear oil in my =
hair...

Bob Frey
D-90 "Red"  

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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 06:50:20 -0700
From: Greg Moore <gmoore@comox.island.net>
Subject: Re: McNamara lockers?

Chris wrote:

> Anyone had any experience with McNamara manual type lockers on a Series
> Rover?

I'm interested in this also. Is McNamara similar to Maxi Drive? I've been 
told that it is possible for the condensate from the ARB unit to collect 
in the diff and freeze (here in Canada) possibly causing damage. 
Comments? Are there any dissadvantages to manual or vacuum units that 
aren't immediately obvious?

Cheers, Greg

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:05:23
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: More Camel Trophy bashing

	I think that turning a blind eye to the sponsorship of the Camel Trophy 
is irresponsible and inexcusable.
	I don't care if the sponsoring company sells Camel Adventure Gear or 
Camel Condoms. It is still carrying the logo and name of a company dealing in 
dangerous carcinogens and adding to the untold expense and misery caused by 
cigarette smoking.
	Land Rover or whoever is in charge of organizing this event should find 
sponsorship money elsewhere. It is a black mark on the history of the Land 
Rover name.
Bill Adams
3Dmentia computer animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington, MD 20895
301-949-9475

'66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel  ...all there

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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 06:26:53 -0700
From: Greg Moore <gmoore@comox.island.net>
Subject: Re: Brake adjusters and electric fans

Clinton D. Coates wrote:

> How reliable are these fans anyway?

Very!

Cheers, Greg

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From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 08:43:04 -0500
Subject: brake adjusters

I'm in the process of replacing my rear brake adjusters on my 88. Both are
frozen, and since I had the drums off to replace the wheel cylinders they're
out of whack. I'm pretty sure I'm running with front brakes only at the moment
(bad news). I bought the replacement kit from RN for $47, which will do all
four. I'll let you know how difficult it is to replace them (going to do it
saturday).

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

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From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@rad1.pcmail.ingr.com>
Subject: RE: D-90 Roll cage cracks.
Date: Thu, 30 May 96 09:58:00 CDT

Where do you live?  I'm wondering if it's generally colder in your area   
then here in the Philadelphia area.  I haven't noticed any cracks on my   
roll cage but I would guess that it might come from the top tightening up   
on very cold days...

Douglas Boehme
'95 Red D90 #2767, currently un-named

 ----------
From:  Daniel McDonough[SMTP:mcdonoug@worldnet.att.net]
Sent:  Thursday, May 30, 1996 12:51 AM
Subject:  D-90 Roll cage cracks.

OK, Now that everyone has had a chance to take their top
off after the winter, anyone notice cracks in the pads
around the snaps? I found cracks at every snap when I
took my top off a couple of months ago. The snaps are
solid, just the padding is cracked.

Daniel McDonough
mcdonoug@worldnet.att.net

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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 10:36:22 EDT
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Misting problems?

Just to add another solution to the fogging windscreen problem...

Take a look at http://www.modernworld.com/fogcity/automotive2.html

They make a double glazing type arrangement for the back of the screen
which prevents fogging. I have one on my helmet visor (OK it's a bit
smaller than the car one) and I wouldn't be without it.

The prices are either 80 or 200 dollars. They don't say what the
differences are between the two.

The 80 dollar one is cheaper than heated glass though, if it works as
well as the one in my helmet it is worth having.

I would say that heated glass is better, but there will be no warm up
time with this, but they don't melt ice either.

For those without web access call 1-800-436-4248

You pays your money and takes your choice as they say.

Cheers, Steve

Steve Reddock, Xyratex       | Just as he thought he had
Ext.(01705) 486363 x5209     | clinched the interview he was
IBMMAIL (GBXYR96P)           | visited by the ghost of Usenet
Steve_Reddock@uk.xyratex.com | Postings Past.

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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 10:17:49 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Re: ATF in Manual Transmissions

Bob Frey wrote:
> Current productions LR's are supplied with ATF as a manual transmission =
> lubricant.

> Any thoughts? =
> It's not that I particulary miss the sulfer smell of gear oil in my =
> hair...

Is that what it is?  Gees for all these years I've been blaming the poor
dog!

Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, MD 21020
dunsmo19@us.net

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From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: Brake adjusters and electric fans
Date: Thu, 30 May 96 15:46:40 BST

> Clinton D. Coates wrote:
> > How reliable are these fans anyway?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> Very!
> Cheers, Greg

Yes, very!
Mine's still sitting in the lounge (on top of a replacement left fuel tank).
:-)

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII FFR in sick-bay + imminent second fuel tank & fan!)

PS: *My* secret to success is living in a company house - no wives to worry
about!  :-))

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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 07:39:00 -0700
From: Greg Moore <gmoore@comox.island.net>
Subject: Re: Brake adjusters and electric fans

Clinton D. Coates wrote:

> Is there an easily available (in Canada) radiator
> that will fit a few inches forward of the existing
> one without butchering anything?

I just had a thought. One or more heater cores plumbed in parallel with 
the existing one should cool things down. They are small enough to mount 
anywhere and inexpensive at the wreckers. A tap where you splice into the 
existing heater hose could be turned off, stopping flow through the new 
'rads', in cold conditions allowing the lump to get up to temperature.

Cheers, Greg

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Date: 30 May 1996 07:51:28 -0700
From: "Bob Frey" <frey@smtp.pvr.com>
Subject: Re(2): D-90 Roll cage cracks.

My rear safari cage developed cracks about this time last year. The =
dealer replaced it at no charge and without hassle. So far no new =
problems.

Bob Frey
D-90 "Red"

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From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@rad1.pcmail.ingr.com>
Subject: More Camel Trophy bashing
Date: Thu, 30 May 96 10:48:00 CDT

I find it unfortunate that people suffer from lung cancer and other   
related cigarette induced ailments, however, smoking is done purely by   
choice.  My grandfather, who died of lung cancer, knew that it was bad   
for him when he began smoking, but he enjoyed it anyway.  There are many   
more people like him that also know/knew it is/was bad for them, but I   
don't blame the cigarette companies for causing their deaths, I blame   
them.  I think it is fortunate for Land Rover to have a sponsor for the   
Camel Trophy.  Granted, the Camel Trophy hasn't always been exclusively   
Land Rover (in the beginning they used J**ps and other such vehicles),   
but currently it is a great selling platform for Land Rover, and the more   
Land Rovers sold, the better for those of us that currently own them.

Just my opinion,
Douglas Boehme
'95 Red D90 #2767, currently un-named  

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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:02:20 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Misting problems?

>They make a double glazing type arrangement for the back of the screen
>which prevents fogging.
Funny how these things go round and round.Smith's made such a thing
years ago for the back window,before heated windows.Gave way to a stick
on heated device.You put a fan heater in the car and warmed the inside
up to boiling point,then stuck the thing on the glass(it had self adhesive
"foam" round the outside).
I've also seen fairly recently a little 12V fan heater type thing that
defrosts the screen.Sat on the dash top.Shades of the suction fitting
bakelite "electric fires" that used to be available.And no,I'm not *that* old,
Grandad told me about them:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:16:27 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing

I'm with you,Doug.However,it would seem that in recent years the Camel
Trophy has been more a training programme for Special Forces than much
to do with getting vehicles through rough terrain.This year having proved
an exception,although I suspect an involuntary one.
I just might find it interesting if they re-introduced Defenders instead
of the ever present Disco,preferably 130 crewcab pickups,a vehicle which
apparently Roger Crathorne favours as well,according to LRO.And he should
know!
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: "Mr Ian Stuart" <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:35:09 +0000
Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing

Quoting Mike Rooth, from 30 May 96

> I just might find it interesting if they re-introduced Defenders instead
> of the ever present Disco,preferably 130 crewcab pickups...
I'd rather they made it a test of off-road skill and ability. What 
does running up a hill carrying 10 gallons of water say about your 
off-road ability?

These "special tasks" are fine and dandy, but got b*gg%r all to do with 
driving Land Rovers.

Maybe Land Rover should switch to promoting the Warn Tophy - but get less 
winching into the competition...

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

Quote of 1996: "A.L.S. is a good example of scottishissityness"

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From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing
Date: Thu, 30 May 96 16:48:36 BST

> Maybe Land Rover should switch to promoting the Warn Tophy - but get less 
> winching into the competition...

Perhaps Land Rover should sponsor a new trophy - the "Solihull Trophy"?
Bias towards off-road skills. Perhaps different classes for a Defenders,
Discos and Rangies - perhaps even allow SII/IIIs and SIs - and not forgetting
the 101 of course!   :-)

Richard  (ex-Gurkha SIII FFR in a franchised sick-bay)

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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:58:26 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing

>I'd rather they made it a test of off-road skill and ability. What
>does running up a hill carrying 10 gallons of water say about your
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>These "special tasks" are fine and dandy, but got b*gg%r all to do with
>driving Land Rovers.
My point exactly,Ian.OK for S.A.S training,no doubt,but as you say
B*gg%r all to do with driving.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: John Putnam <jdputnam@pacifier.com>
Subject: Diff Drain
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 09:10:00 -0700

Hi all,

What type of tool do you use to remove the drain plug from the transfer =
case and both diffs ( the recessed slot type of plug ) and were can I =
get one.  I would like to stop my brut for channel lock technique.

Thank in advance

John Putnam and his green '70 SIIa
Beaverton OR

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From: "Boehme, Doug" <dboehme@rad1.pcmail.ingr.com>
Subject: RE: More Camel Trophy bashing
Date: Thu, 30 May 96 12:26:00 CDT

>From what I've heard, Camel Trophy is also a show case for vehicles that   
they want to sell.  Apparently they feel that they can stand to make   
quite a profit by selling lots of Discoveries, therefore they will use   
them in the Camel Trophy.  If another vehicle comes into the spotlight,   
it will probably become the "choice" vehicle in the Camel Trophy instead   
of the Discovery.

I've also heard that they would rather use D90s because of their short   
wheel base but that overall the 130 is the preferred vehicle due to it's   
carrying capacity.

I agree with you and think that it should be more about driving than   
about carrying stuff, although the building bridges part is needed to   
cross some of the rivers...

Douglas Boehme
'95 Red D90 #2767, currently un-named

 --------------
I'm with you,Doug.However,it would seem that in recent years the Camel
Trophy has been more a training programme for Special Forces than much
to do with getting vehicles through rough terrain.This year having proved
an exception,although I suspect an involuntary one.
I just might find it interesting if they re-introduced Defenders instead
of the ever present Disco,preferably 130 crewcab pickups,a vehicle which
apparently Roger Crathorne favours as well,according to LRO.And he should
know!
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 30 May 96 12:42:17 EDT
Subject: Re: Diff Drain

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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 12:45:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Diff Drain

On Thu, 30 May 1996, John Putnam wrote:

> What type of tool do you use to remove the drain plug from the transfer =
> case and both diffs ( the recessed slot type of plug ) and were can I =
> get one.  I would like to stop my brut for channel lock technique.
>.
	Large flat cold chisel that fits in a 3/4" socket attached
	to a ratchet.

	Rgds,

------------------------------
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From: Gregspitz@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 12:49:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Impromptu Survey

I have a very fun ATV that I tow behind my defender 90 and drive both of them
depending on the terrain and room I have.

------------------------------
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From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 11:28:37 -0500
Subject: Re:  Diff Drain

I asked the same thing last summer. Take a 1/2" Craftsman or similar high-
quality open end wrench and stick the jaws into the slot, then turn the
wrench with something like a pipe or vice grips or whatever works. Has
to be a good wrench, though, or you'll break the jaws...

I've been thinking of having my brother (a machinist) make me a better 
tool, but I haven't got around to it...

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 17:03:18 GMT
From: Andy Purser <apurs@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pick-up Cab

Hello,
     If anyone is interested, I'm considering trading my Pick-Up cab for a
88" Canvas and Hoop set. The cab is in excellent condition, but does need
new felt in the rear window channel. I would consider trading for a Canvas
top and the Hoops/Hardware in Good condition ready to go on. The Cab is in
North Carolina.
If interested E-mail me with the Details and we could discuss shipping.
Apurs@worldnet.att.net

Thanks,
Andy 
'73 Series III 88"

------------------------------
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From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 30 May 96 10:15:27 MST
Subject: Winch mount bumper for RR, rock sliders.

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist ~ S.R.P. ~ AM/FM - Graphic Records
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
Hello all,

Does anyone have a drawing, plan, dimensions, or a good picture of a
front bumper with a winch mount for a RR Classic. (Mine's an '87) My
roommate is willing to make me one in exchange for rent. I've seen his
welding work, and he does an excellent job, and has access to a wire
feed welder. But I need a plan or very good picture for him to work
from. I don't have a winch yet, but plan to add a Warn 8000 or 9000
winch.

I am also interested in replacing the black plastic sill protector
(underneath the doors) with replacement steel "rock slider" types.

Any good, detailed photos on the web? I have access to a large sized FAX
machine if you could fax it?

Please help!!!

Thanks a LOT!      debrown@srp.gov

Dave (winchless in Phoenix... "wenchless" too!) Brown

 #=====#         #========#            _________
 |___|__\___     |___|__|__\___       //__/__|__\___
 | _ |   |_ |}   | _ |  |   |_ |}     \__/-\_|__/-\_|}
 "(_)""""(_)"    "(_)"""""""(_)"         (_)    (_)

 1971 "88" IIa   1970 "109" IIa        '87 Range Rover
 LIC: LION B8    Historic plates        rear Lock-Right  Bilstein shocks
                 Will be restored...    Crane cam        Optima battery
 Dave Brown                             OME HD springs   SSB CB radio
 Phoenix Arizona USA (602) 820-8052     Hella lights (6)
 Books, tools, knowledge, lodging, coffee...  Pager: 602.275.2508 #6486

#=======#         _________         "What lies behind us and what lies
|__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___    before us are tiny matters compared
| _|  |   |_ |}  \__/-\_|__/-\_|}  to what lies within us."
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                     Ralph Waldo Emerson

------------------------------
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Subject: Re: Parking Brake 
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 10:39:23 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <bulk.16543.19960530010904@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you wrote:

> I suspected a "slackening-off" (?wear) of my hand brake (its British, so
> its a handbrake!  :-) ), so I've actually done this one. The manuals say to
> do this with the brakes off; Turn clockwise as far as it will go (ie.
> the brakes come on), then turn two clicks anti-clockwise.
> IIRC a click is equivalent to a quarter turn.

	Yup.  The thing is that the adjustment tends to go with time.  So
the recommendation is to readjust them every 3000 miles with the rest of your
3000 mile maintenance.  When working properly they should start to engage
almost immediatly after you start pulling on the hand brake lever.  It shouldn't
be easy to pull the lever all the way up.  If all else fails, you can pull the
tranny brake drum (and rest it on the prop shaft) and see what condition
the brake shoes are in.
 
Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 11:05:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Winch mount bumper for RR, rock sliders.

Dave,

I've been looking around for Rock Sliders for my 1988 RR, and am told 
that Safari Gard has them, but when I called and asked for info, I was 
sent materials that failed to include them.  Later, Rick Hanson, who has 
a rolling display of Safari Gard goodies on his D90, suggested that I 
contact the owner, Greg, and grill him directly about their 
availability.  Tom Walsh has them on his Disco, and they seem to be 
pretty stout.  At $500 (the pair) they ought to be 8^*

I've asked Eric Zipkin if his suppliers have them, but nothing positive 
has come back on that yet.  Keep us posted if you find a good supplier.

BTW, is it really necessary to post to three different lists?  My inbox 
runneth over.   But if everybody did it we could rescind the split.

Rgds,

Walt          * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network |                               *
              * Davis, California       | 1988 Range Rover- "Lady Jane" *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

On 30 May 1996 debrown@srp.gov wrote:

> FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov

> I am also interested in replacing the black plastic sill protector
> (underneath the doors) with replacement steel "rock slider" types.
 
> Any good, detailed photos on the web? I have access to a large sized FAX
> machine if you could fax it?
 
> Please help!!!
> machine if you could fax it?

Rgds,

Walt          * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network |                               *
              * Davis, California       | 1988 Range Rover- "Lady Jane" *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------
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From: RALPH@SMUGGITS.MHS.CompuServe.COM
Date: 30 May 96 12:10:18 EDT
Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing

Bill,

Land Rover is not the company in charge of the camel, it's actually the 
company that makes the clothing etc. Originally camel cigarettes set up 
the event, but it has drifted away from that. Changing the name would 
lose the identity of the event in the public eye. It is an excellent 
piece of publicity for LR, no one is stupid enough to think that smoking 
is going to give the ability to perform great feats of off-roading, but 
owning a LR might. People are going to smoke whether or not cigarettes 
are in the public eye, or even legal for that matter. People make their 
own decision to harm themselves and if they want to, it's up to them.

If any event is going to be funded by business, that's a good thing if it 
produces a positive outcome (in this case a challenge for the 
participants and entertainment for the public.) People make their own 
decisions.

Ralph Pyne (non-smoker)

101 FC (occasional smoker)

------------------------------
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Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing 
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 12:40:26 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <bulk.18787.19960530065645@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you wrote:

 	I think that turning a blind eye to the sponsorship of the Camel Trophy
 is irresponsible and inexcusable.
 	I don't care if the sponsoring company sells Camel Adventure Gear or 
 Camel Condoms. It is still carrying the logo and name of a company dealing in
 dangerous carcinogens and adding to the untold expense and misery caused by 
 cigarette smoking.

	And General Electric makes a really nice minigun that shoots 
thousands of 5.56mm bullets per minute.  Do you not buy GE washers and 
refrigerators because they have a product that's sole purpose is to kill 
people?  (bet that fridge has a GE logo).  Boeing has made a lot of
aircraft.  Some were built with the specific purpose of bombing which killed 
hundreds of thousands of civilians.   Will you not fly 707s, 727s and 747s 
because they have Boeing logos?  Gasoline is carcinogenic, yet we use it
every day.  

	The point is that with almost every large corporation you will
find nasty things that they do or have done.  Yes, RJ Reynolds makes cigarettes.
It also does other things.  In my mind the issue is whether RJ Reynolds is
using the Camel Trophy to sell cigarrettes.  In the early days of the Camel
Trophy it did.  The UK wasn't allowed to field a team because Camel cigarettes
weren't sold there.  With time RJ Reynolds has (as far as I've seen in the
US) stopped using the Camel Trophy to sell it's cigarettes.  I don't
know for sure what it does in the rest of the world, but from what I've heard
2nd hand, RJR is only using Camel trophy to sell cothing.  

	If you dont' want to buy _any_ product from a company that produces
carcinogens or causes others to suffer, that's your choice.  But to avoid
being hypocritical you might find yourself with a very limited number of
products that you can buy.

> 	Land Rover or whoever is in charge of organizing this event should find
> sponsorship money elsewhere. It is a black mark on the history of the Land 
> Rover name.

	The Camel Trophy is 100% owned by World-wide Brands which is 100% owned
by R.J. Reynolds Company (which also makes Camel Cigaretts).  The organizers of 
the Camel Trophy are employees of WWB.  Land Rover is a "co-sponsor."   If
LR pulls out WWB will find another sponsor, or just buy the Rovers from LR
instead of LR donating them.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------
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Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing 
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 12:43:05 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <bulk.19662.19960530075648@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you wrote:

> Granted, the Camel Trophy hasn't always been exclusively   
> Land Rover (in the beginning they used J**ps and other such vehicles),   

	The first year they used jeeps.  Every year after that was a Land Rover
Product.  LR didn't become a co-sponsor until much later.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------
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Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing 
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 12:47:12 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Ian Stuart wrote:

> I'd rather they made it a test of off-road skill and ability. What 
> does running up a hill carrying 10 gallons of water say about your 
> off-road ability?

	I agree.  My biggest beef with the Camel Trophy is tha they turned
it into an Iron Man competition.  I thought it was much more interesting
when the special tasks were here are 20 GPS coordinates, see how fast you
can get to all of them (and the terrain is full of hills and valleys).
Carrying gerrys cans of water is an endurance test not a LR one.

	This is why I think that if I got to go on the CT I would have 
much more fun driving one of the support vehicles.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------
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Subject: Re: Diff Drain 
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 12:48:17 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <bulk.20663.19960530091251@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you wrote:
> What type of tool do you use to remove the drain plug from the transfer =
> case and both diffs ( the recessed slot type of plug ) and were can I =
> get one.  I would like to stop my brut for channel lock technique.

 	The edge of a 9/16" (US) open end wrench.  The is an official tool,
but the wrench works fine.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------
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From: Gregspitz@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 15:57:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Winch mount bumper for RR, rock sliders.

try an ARB bumper for this they have many applications..Superwinch also has
some good models

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Date: 30 May 96 16:09:45 EDT
From: Richard Maynard <101723.414@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Bonnet mounted washer jets

Dear Nate

My SIII jets stopped working recently, and I couldn't see the sense of rerouting
the tubes through the really small gaps under the windscreen.  I replaced the
whole system with parts from a scrapyard (breaker's yard?) for a fiver.  Whilst
I was there, I remembered to pick up all the little clips and things, so the
jobs neat, and works well.  The jets were from a Nissan 100NX - a Sunny coupe -
with double adjustable jets that chuck out loads of water.

The only problem is that at motorway speeds the airflow around the spare tyre
throws the water around a lot, rather than the neat jet that I get at low
speeds.  Most of it finds its way on to the screen, though.

Cheers

Rich.    (London, UK)

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From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 14:58:35 -0500
Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing

Ben wrote...

>        And General Electric makes a really nice minigun that shoots
>thousands of 5.56mm bullets per minute.  Do you not buy GE washers and
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>because they have Boeing logos?  Gasoline is carcinogenic, yet we use it
>every day.

I agree with Ben's comments. Lots of big companies make Bad Things (tm). Its
called Business.

You know what else? The Land Rover, the worlds greatest go-anywhere on Earth
4x4 is also loved by militaries as gun platforms, etc., and is also endeared
by poachers 'round the world.

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

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Date: Thu, 30 May 96 15:47:50 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Diff Drain

 Take a 1/2" Craftsman or similar high-quality open end wrench and stick the 
jaws into the slot, then turn the
wrench with something like a pipe or vice grips

Tim- 
Try turning the wrench sideways, and then you can use the side of the jaw end or
the box-end. I would guess the box end would be stronger. This way you can use 
the handle of the wrench as the handle (imagine that!). Eliminates the problem 
of having zillions of tools floating about under the Landy while you roll around
in puddles of gear oil...if you want a "better" tool, follow Al Richers 
instructions. I made one very similar before I learned the wrench trick. Mine 
(like somebody else on this list's) has a large nut on the end of the handle in 
case you need more leverage, you can slip a big ol' wrench on there. Come to 
think of it, all my tools have a large nut on the handle...:)
Dave "I'm really reaching aren't I"

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:27:18 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Re: Bonnet mounted washer jets

Richard Maynard wrote:
> Dear Nate
> My SIII jets stopped working recently, and I couldn't see the sense of rerouting
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> throws the water around a lot, rather than the neat jet that I get at low
> speeds.  Most of it finds its way on to the screen, though.

Thanks for the info.  I was sure that someone else had tried this before me.
As for speed affecting the jet's pattern, if I could go fast enough to obtain this 
problem, I'd brag about it.  I top out about 45-50 mph which is fine as long as I 
stay off the freeways (often free-for-all-ways).

I'll let the list know the outcome.

Nate
Boring, MD, USA

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From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 15:16:44 -0500
Subject: Re:  Re[2]: Diff Drain

Dave wrote...

> Come to
> think of it, all my tools have a large nut on the handle...:)
> Dave "I'm really reaching aren't I"

First it's small mammals, now this. Dave, you need help. Help, Dave;
Professional Help.
 :-)

Yeah, I meant slide the jaw in at an angle. I had a nice asci drawing that
I think Teri Ann sent me, but I can't find it. I still want to make a better
tool, though. While there is a lifetime warrenty on the wrench, there is a 
'normal usage' clause that can be envoked if the sales droid thinks you were
using it for sonething other than its intended purpose...

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:49:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain

On Thu, 30 May 1996 harincar@internet.mdms.com wrote:

> tool, though. While there is a lifetime warrenty on the wrench, there is a 
> 'normal usage' clause that can be envoked if the sales droid thinks you were
> using it for sonething other than its intended purpose...

	They have to prove it...  So I taped the trigger on the drill
	down, blocked it so it stood up, and proceeded to put a few 
	cement blocks on top when I was drilling through that rail...
	21 sockets from Canadian Tire when trying to remove the front
	crank bolt, followed by about 5 from Sears after Canadian Tire
	ran out in this region.  Drilled the bolt in the end...  CT never
	asked whether I had six feet of pipe on the 3/4" drive...

------------------------------
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From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 15:39:09 -0500
Subject: wiring accessories

You all know of my recent electrical experiences, so don't laugh too hard.
One thing I am not very good at is engineering new things into a vehicle. I
can do repairs fine, but I don't change many things around. 

Anyway, I am planning to wire a CB and also a washer system into my beast,
and am wondering where is the best place to get power from. Do I just take the
hot lead off the side of the fuse block that the lights are on? Or the opposite
side, ignition side, where the heater fan lead came off? Or some other place,
like the battery leads in the dash? 

What about aux lights? I assume that those would come off the lights side of
the fuse block...

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:58:39 -0400
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain

harincar@internet.mdms.com wrote:
>  While there is a lifetime warrenty on the wrench, there is a
> 'normal usage' clause that can be envoked if the sales droid thinks you were
> using it for sonething other than its intended purpose...
> Tim

For all screwdrivers (read chisel/pry bar/scraper/paint can opener/ice 
pick/pointy-thing-to-kill-icky-bugs-on-my-daughter's-toy tool), wrenches and large/yard 
tools like sledge hammers and shovels, I try to buy Craftsman since they state they'll
replace broken hand tools "no questions asked".  I have brought back some seriously 
questionable broken tools (like the wrench with the right angle bend in it) and never
had a problem.  In fact, when I brought back a post hole shovel, which Sears no longer
carried as a craftsman, they replaced it with the much nicer fiberglass handled one!

Gotta love Bob Vila!

Nate "free is a very good price" Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, MD 21020
dunsmo19@us.net

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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 17:08:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Diff Drain

On Thu, 30 May 1996, John Putnam wrote:

> Hi all,

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
> John Putnam and his green '70 SIIa
> Beaverton OR
I just changed the oil in my rear diff and believe it or not I used a 
rock to get the plug out.  A very thin stone found in the driveway held 
with a pair of visegrips...maybe a real tool would be a good idea.  Any 
screwdriver with a head that size would be 3ft long.

Russ W.

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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 17:00:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing

On Fri, 31 May 1996, WILLIAM ADAMS wrote:

> 	I think that turning a blind eye to the sponsorship of the Camel Trophy 

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]

> 	I think that turning a blind eye to the sponsorship of the Camel Trophy 
> is irresponsible and inexcusable.

Why such the axe to grind with cigarettes?? IF you are dumb enough to 
light up..... Darwin wrote about behovior such as this...."natural 
selection" I believe he called it.

> 	I don't care if the sponsoring company sells Camel Adventure Gear or 
> Camel Condoms. It is still carrying the logo and name of a company dealing in 
> dangerous carcinogens and adding to the untold expense and misery caused by 
> cigarette smoking.
whewwww....I would have to first say.."lighten up"  no pun intended.

> 	Land Rover or whoever is in charge of organizing this event should find 
> sponsorship money elsewhere
most auto events as already mentioned are sponsored by either brewers or 
tobbacco co.  The PPG Indy Car series the only glaring exception that I 
can think of.
I can agree that if you really dislike the practices of a company..don't 
buy their product. But Land Rover I do not find "Guilty by 
assiciation"...
It is as they say....."Just good Business"
I will admit to being more than likely one of the more 
"conservative-right-wing types" on the list, judging by past 
conversations, buy hey I'm basically Libertarian at heart.."To each his own"
 
Russ Wilson
67 swb "The Pig"

. It is a black mark on the history of the Land 
> Rover name.
> Bill Adams
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> 301-949-9475
> '66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel  ...all there

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From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:30:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Parking Brake 

Relative to the discussion on adjusting parking brakes:

> When working properly they should start to engage
>almost immediatly after you start pulling on the hand brake lever.  It
>shouldn't
>be easy to pull the lever all the way up.

Our '60 88 SW had been parked for a while (needs a new frame and fuel tank),
and while moving it the parking brake engaged when we tried to go forward,
and the rear wheels locked. It appears to have an very aggresive "self-servo"
action. So be careful not to set it up too tight.

David Cockey

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From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:37:27 -0400
Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing

>Land Rover is not the company in charge of the camel, it's actually the 
>company that makes the clothing etc. Originally camel cigarettes set up 
>the event, but it has drifted away from that. Changing the name would 
>lose the identity of the event in the public eye.

A tobacco company succeeds again.
I believe that a through study would reveal that "Camel Action Wear", or what
ever they call the corporate structure that puts on the Camel Trophy is
actually controlled by the same folks that make the cigarettes. A clever bit
of legal work, a new wholly owned corporation and claims that it is no longer
about tobacco but about "action wear" gets around laws in various countries
banning tobacco advertising. The logo is still the same though.

David Cockey  

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:03:01 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: Toys and stuff

Dear all,
        I can't remember who posted the info. on the Matchbox Fire truck,
file was deleted, but thanks whoever you were. Mine is on the way!
        I have heard talk around the shop about those who wear Camel Trophy
Underwear, but the Camel Condom is a new one! Even funnier than the
underwear bit!
        Ever watch the videos of the Warn Challenges in Transylvainia.
*sorry about the spelling* Compare that Off Road style in the Warn stuff
with The Camel Trophy. One is a lot more like real hard core off roading...
I agree with the others, who needs to see if you can float a gearbox across
the river on two boxes. Who would have had the extra gearbox or the boxes
in the Rover while Off Roading anyway! On the other hand I'd probably pass
out after about 15 minutes in the Camel Trophy selection trials
competition, so who am I to say.
        See ya!

From: Mike Smith
East Coast Rover Co.                    207.594.8086
21 Tolman Road  *Rt. 90*                207.594.8120 fax
Warren, Maine 04864                     ecrover@midcoast.com
    Land Rover Service, Sales, Restoration, and More
        Series Coil Chassis Specialists

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:22:07 -0400 (-0400)
From: rotero@ing.puc.cl (Rodrigo Otero)
Subject: LR Magazine

Hi everybody.

Can someone recommend a good Land Rover magazine that is worth subscribing to ?
In Chile there are some decent 4WD magazines but I want something specific
for LR.
My 1964 109 is in excellent  working conditions (after  draining my wallet)
but I would like to gear it up for the many horrible (but beautiful) roads
of this country.
By the way if anybody is interested in Rovering in the far south of South
America (Chile) just drop me a line.

PS. There is good wine also.

Rodrigo
rotero@ing.puc.cl

1964 SII 109

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:42:46 -0800
From: "Deanna D. Sitter" <lani@alaska.net>
Subject: McNamara lockers

According to their LRO advert. the US distributor for Jack McNamara is 
Great Basin Rovers, Salt Lake City, Utah (no zip given), ph# (801) 
486-5049.  I'm not posative that they offer the manual locker for RR 
ect., but I believe they do.  McNamara's address is 25 Levanswell Road, 
Moorabbin, Vic 3189 Australia, tel# 61-3-9555-2213.  They also have a 
vacuum operated locker,  but I have no experience with it and so have no 
opinion on it.  They also offer their own third member castings and 
carriers which use Toyota P/U ring and pinion gears.  They claim these 
are stronger because they are a hypoid design (Pinion mounted off center 
of ring gear) as opposed to the spiral bevel design (Pinion mounted on 
center of ring gear).  While it is true that the hypoid is a stronger 
design(I don't know of anyone else who has used the spiral bevel besides 
Rover in eons), the Toyota P/U has a 8" ring gear as opposed to the 
Rover's 8.75".  I think that the increased size pretty well cancels out 
the advantage of the hypoid design given equivelent ratios, but mabey 
I'm wrong. In my opinion the weakest part of the Rover ring and pinion 
set is the bolts which hold the ring gear to the carrier.  They are a 
grade T (120,300psi tensile strength) which isn't that great for this 
application.  I recommend to never reuse them, better safe than sorry.

Tim Sitter

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Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing 
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:20:11 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <bulk.24813.19960530153528@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you wrote:

 A tobacco company succeeds again.
 I believe that a through study would reveal that "Camel Action Wear", or what
 ever they call the corporate structure that puts on the Camel Trophy is
 actually controlled by the same folks that make the cigarettes. A clever bit
 of legal work, a new wholly owned corporation and claims that it is no longer
 about tobacco but about "action wear" gets around laws in various countries
 banning tobacco advertising. The logo is still the same though.

	This would only be true if they were trying to use the CT to
advertise their cigarettes.  (I got an email this afternoon from someone
that reported being in various European countries and only seeing CT being 
used to avertise clothing and watched).    If you ask most people in the
US what they think of when you say "Camel Cigaretts" and they will either 
say Joe Camel or the picuture of a camel on the side of the pack of cigarattes.
Most won't notice the the font used for Camel on the cigs is the same as on
the Discos.

	As I said before a lot of companies are diversifying and getting into
new and different markets.   I believe the RJ Reynolds corporate structure is:

     RJ Reynolds
       |
 ,-----'-------------v-------------------------------.
 |                   |                               |
Cigarettes        World Wide Brands              Other Branches
 |                       |
Camel Cigs        ,------'----------.
                  |                 |
               Cothing           Camel Trophy
               Watches
               Boots

	So both report to the same place, but are different entities.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 21:32:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 <jkirkpat@acs.ryerson.ca>
Subject: Subscribe

subscribe land-rover-owner real-time

------------------------------
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From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 21:47:15 -0400
Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing 

>This would only be true if they were trying to use the CT to
>advertise their cigarettes.  (I got an email this afternoon from someone
>that reported being in various European countries and only seeing CT being 
>used to avertise clothing and watched).

Maybe I'm cynical about tobacco companies, but I somehow doubt Reynold's
makes enough from the clothing, boots and watches to pay for the CT. Then
again the prices appear to be very high compared to non-logo goods.

------------------------------
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From: SACME@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 22:07:51 -0400
Subject:  Washer Jets--Sheesh! 

Nate:
I solved my washer problem (SIII 88) by running the hose up through a hole in
the rear corner of the left wing, up the side of the windshield and then
across the top.  Left windscreen outlet is an aquarium air hose "tee" and and
right hand outlet is also a "tee" with one hole blocked off (I couldn't find
an "elbow")  It works great, even at 65 mph, is easily maintainable, doesn't
get clogged they way the tiny spray nozzles do, and is logical, i.e, the
washer fluid is delivered to the top of the blade and the washing action
takes place in a gravity assisted fashion.  It worked all winter and through
Maine's mudtime with nary a problem.  I'll never go back to jets again,
period.   

BTW, just forward of the hole in the wing where the washer tubing comes up, I
have made a hatch that lets me easily get to the clutch pedal adjustment and
clutch fluid reservoir.

All the Best, 

Doug Scott
  

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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:31:45 -0700
From: Greg Moore <gmoore@comox.island.net>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Diff Drain

Dixon Kenner wrote:

>CT never asked whether I had six feet of pipe on the 3/4" drive...

You must be a site bigger than I am. I need 12-15' of extension to break 
my wrenches :-)

Cheers, Greg

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 23:38:21 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Capstan recovery

Steve Reddock wrote:

>In the last few days there have been a couple of people say that self
>recovery is possible with a capstan winch.  How?

Well, I've only recovered myself once, but used the winch a bunch of times, 
mostly to skid logs out of a rough cutover where it just wasn't feasible to 
drive.  I've been around sailboats all my life, so I feel comfortable using 
capstan-style winches.

I use a 9/16" Sampson "Sta-Set" dacron polyester line.  I can get four good 
turns on the bollard and it doesn't 'bunch up' like a very worn line might. 
Even at "full speed," things move at a crawl, even slower if you're dealing 
with a snatch block.  If alone and given no other option, I might put the 
Rover in first low and work the winch myself - but only if I could 
propitiate the woodland gods and powers-that-be with a suitable sacrifice 
beforehand.  (In most situations when I'm stuck and by myself, I only need 
to winch out a very short distance.)  Otherwise, it's one in, one out.

The advantages to a capstan:
        -Light weight.
        -Direct drive, no drain on the electrical system.
        -*Precise* control of the load and line speed - in or out.
        -It's a *working* winch - you can use it all day long.
        -You can use it to cook (see below).

The disadvantages:
        -Difficult to use if rope is wet or frozen.
        -Of course, if the engine is dead, you're *stuck*.
        -Must be engaged with the engine stationary, though it can be 
disengaged while running.
        -Line pull limited to 3,000# though this can be almost doubled with 
a snatch block.

Chef "Head Wound Harry" Bligh of the Ottawa Valley club related one episode 
with a capstan winch he had.  He parked the Rover near a fire and with a 
loop of rope 'round the bollard, the Rover happily turned a side of beef on 
a spit all day long.  Try *that* with a Warn.  Cheers

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 23:38:25 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Camel redux

Bill Adams wrote:

>If the support truck breaks down where do the spares for it come from?      

Indeed.  That happened this year to one of the *workshop* vehicles.  The US 
team voluntered to stay behind with it and help with repairs.  It was two 
days before they could be flown in by helicopter.  Cheers

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 20:40:09 -0700
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Diff Drain

At  9:10 AM 5/30/96 -0700, John Putnam wrote:
>Hi all,
>What type of tool do you use to remove the drain plug from the transfer =
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>John Putnam and his green '70 SIIa
>Beaverton OR

Hi John!

I use a 1/2 inch open end wrench and a crescent wrench.

Put the rounded side of the open end  into the slot and use the crescent
attached to the handle of the 1/2 inch wrench for turning leverage.

Take care,

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com   <- NOTE NEW ADDRESS

Celebrating my tenth year on Usenet/Internet

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 20:47:01 -0700
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Even MORE Camel Trophy bashing 

At 06:20 PM 5/30/96 -0700, Benjamin Smith <bens@vislab.navy.mil> wrote:
>	This would only be true if they were trying to use the CT to
>advertise their cigarettes.....   If you ask most people in the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>of cigarattes.  Most won't notice the the font used for Camel on the
>cigs is the same as on the Discos.

 What data suggests this?  Only Ray Charles wouldn't recognize the
 yellow Land-Rovers with "Camel" on them as not being the same as Camel
 cigarettes.

>	As I said before a lot of companies are diversifying and getting
>into new and different markets.   I believe the RJ Reynolds corporate
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
>               Watches
>               Boots

 You *almost* got it right!
 The monster looks more like this when standing up.

                     RJ Reynolds
                          |
         ,----------------v-----------------.
         |                |                 |
    Camel Cigs    World Wide Brands   Other Branches
                          |
                   ,------'-----.
                   |            |
                Cothing       Camel
                Watches       Trophy
                Boots

>	So both report to the same place, but are different entities.
>into new and different markets.   I believe the RJ Reynolds corporate

 Saying that the Camel Trophy is not Camel Cigarettes and RJ Reynolds
 is like saying that a leg is not part of an animal but a different
 entity.  I say lets cut CT off of the beast and see where it bleeds!

 Point in fact, autosports is one of the categories exempt from the US
 ban on cigarette advertising, and so RJ Reynolds advertises their brand
 "Camel" all over Land-Rovers which they sponsor in the Camel Trophy.

 Let's not be so myopic and not recognize that "Camel" equals "Camel".
 Certainly the typography and artwork matches, as do the colors of the
 of the vehicles match the cigarette packs.  Let's not pretend that it
 is merely coincidence that only the most photogenic young specimens
 are chosen for the guise of "the Olympics of 4 wheel drive" and
 displayed in meaningless physical exertions.

 Hey, so far Land-Rover is benefitting from the publicity so apropos in
 the rest of the world, only US liberals are critical.  Land-Rover
 probably even enjoys getting their stripped Discos field tested;
 besides, they are worth more beat-up than new with that lovely shade of
 tobacco yellow.

 Every time someone writes, reports, or shows photos of the event,
 Camel/RJ Reynolds gets free advertising in the main stream press where
 their cigarette product is outlawed.  Solution? Create another product,
 Camel adventure wear, then discount it with mileage stickers from the
 cigarette packs.  Get a Camel field jacket for 1,200 mileage coupons on
 240 packs of cigarettes and loose 46 days of your life due to a
 shortened life span (at 14 min/cig... your mileage may vary :)
 Anyone notice how "mileage" coupons refer back to automobiles?

 I don't care if responsible adults smoke or not, after all I was a
 Pall-Mall fiend for over 6 years myself.  However, as long as the
 taxpayer is asked to foot the bill at County hospitals for cancer care,
 I'd say ban the death sticks.

 Some say don't buy their products, a concept that doesn't work for
 owners of Land-Rovers of pre Camel Trophy vintage.  Someone remarked
 that other producers of "bad" products such as GE also make good stuff,
 like refrigerators.  True, however GE doesn't attempt to link their
 products and get our young to buy and use GE weapons by shoving
 appliances in our face.

 I say that Land-Rover owners of fine four-wheel drives shouldn't be
 stigmatised by the RJR connection.  Let Land-Rover find another partner
 with a less savory reputation, and make a Trophy event that we owners
 and the press can really get enthused about.  Wake up LRNA!!

                                  RJR and Camel free!
 Cheers,                           / 
                         ______   /
 Michael Carradine       [__[__\==                    Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900            [________]               Land-Rover Roughmobile
 cs@crl.com  __________.._(o)__.(o)____...o^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88")
 _______________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page:   http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:08:05
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: Bash, Bash, Bash...OK, I'm done.

Benjamin Allan Smith writes:
>	And General Electric makes a really nice minigun that shoots 
>thousands of 5.56mm bullets per minute.  Do you not buy GE washers and 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 28 lines)]
>being hypocritical you might find yourself with a very limited number of
>products that you can buy.
	Your argument falls apart when you understand the difference between 
cigarettes and the products you mention. Obviously we don't expect people to 
buy guns with the express purpose of using them on themselves. Nor is a 
bomber that is used for what is presumably a beneficial (i.e. national 
defense)use considered to be inherently harmful when used for its intended 
purpose. I don't expect cancer, heart disease or other deliterious effects 
when I board a plane, I expect it to get me where I want to go (thank 
goodness for no-smoking flights). If we carry your argument further and plug 
in another example, we might say that if God allows people to suffer and die, 
we should abandon God as evil. This is a hasty conclusion. Cigarettes are 
indeed harmful when used for their intended purpose and everyone knows it. 
This is the point of separation for many who don't seem to see the damage 
from cigarettes as a social ill. Laissez faire and all that. 'If people are 
dumb enough to smoke themselves to death, so be it'. That's fine up to the 
point where one begins to realize the immense cost to non-smokers who feel 
the effects in both insurance premiums and health care. 

	In the first place, I don't deny any cigarette manufacturer its right 
to do business and sell all it can. That's America at its finest. I don't 
condone the use of cigarette advertising and promotion in sporting events. 
Secondly, I don't feel hypocritical when using products made by companies 
that also make bombs etc. as I assume that they are acting responsibly by not 
making a product that's going to cause harm to the consumer and with the 
understanding that their products are going to be used as designed. Like Land 
Rovers.
 
>	The Camel Trophy is 100% owned by World-wide Brands which is 100% owned
>by R.J. Reynolds Company (which also makes Camel Cigaretts). The organizers 
of 
>the Camel Trophy are employees of WWB.  Land Rover is a "co-sponsor."   If
>LR pulls out WWB will find another sponsor, or just buy the Rovers from LR
>instead of LR donating them.

	This is known as the Donald Trump Effect. Spend a pot of money and you 
can put your name on anything. If Land Rover pulled out, they'd use someone 
else's vehicles in a heartbeat. Land Rover is simply following the carrot.

Bill Adams
3Dmentia computer animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington, MD 20895
301-949-9475

'66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel  ...all there

------------------------------
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From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Camel stuff
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 14:04:00 +0930 (CST)

Wow Have I been missing out or what!

I always thought that "Camel" referred to a four legged animal often found 
in sandy deserts (or on the menu at mongolian bbq restaurants)

I've always wondered where you would find room for a "Camel trophy".

Gee what a revelation to hear that Camel cigarettes are made from 
tobacco, its always puzzled me why people knowingly smoked dryed camels.

Gee guys thanks for ensuring that I can no longer hold these misguided 
beliefs.  

Now I know just how dangerous Camel's really are....

cheers

-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 07:59:05 +1000
From: paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash)
Subject: Re: Fuel senders

Apropos fuel senders:

I am about to relace the sender in my sIII s/w (it reads full for ~150km,
then drops to empty, as the internal variable resistor has unwound).  Does
anyone know whether the resistor is the same for petrol & diesel models?
They cost the same, and I quite like the idea of a "fill up NOW" warning
light.

Also, does anyone know what the resitance curve of a 6cyl temperature
sender is?  I have a 3.3l Holden motor in the truck, with a Holden sender.
I've not yet checked, but I think that my paranoia about running hot is
caused by a mismatch between sender and guage.  I'll try, but I doubt that
a 6cyl (or even 2.25) sender will fit the Holden head.

Holden motors are great, btw.  Dead simple, bags of torque, could even have
been designed by the factory.  The biggest problem that I can see is an
un-filtered air-vent on the carburettor's float chamber, which opens at
idle and would allow the ingress of all sorts of shit.

        paul

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From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: holden stuff
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 14:41:12 +0930 (CST)

Paul Nash writes:

> Also, does anyone know what the resitance curve of a 6cyl temperature
> sender is? 

Sorry cant help. but...

The 202 (3.3) holden was noted for running hot even in the original 
application, in a land rover application I would strongly suggest an 
oil cooler be fitted.  The small sump capacity means that the oil gets 
*Very* hot.  (pre-cooler my 173 (2.85l) used to reach 150+ C at 80kmh) 

after fitting an ex-toyota crown cooler the 202 would run ~ 130 C at most 
speeds.

I'd suggets getting a good wide sweep aftermarket Temp guage (like a vdo
270 deg mechanical) these motors do run hot...... we had to fit dual
thermo fans to keep it cool at low speeds, even a 9 (?) blade H/duty
holden fan didnt help.  At highway speeds the thermo's didnt run much but
on occasion we had to drive by the temp guage.  I used to slow up once the
water temp climbed above 100 - 105 C (15 PSI cap) and/or oil temp climbed
beyond ~ 130-135 C (after he cooler was fitted, before that there was no
hope for the engine oil...)
 
> Holden motors are great, btw.  Dead simple, bags of torque, could even have
> been designed by the factory. The biggest problem that I can see is an
> un-filtered air-vent on the carburettor's float chamber, which opens at
> idle and would allow the ingress of all sorts of shit.

Yeh thats true for the single bbl carb. ISTR that was not the case for 
the 2bbl unit i used to run, but i could be mistaken.  Unless you have the 
late model "big bore" single bbl carb the breathing can get a bit 
restricted at revs.  I really liked the 2bbl WW2 stromberg, got good 
economy (17-18 mpg @ 140 k in O/D) out of it after we changed the 
power valve.

The biggest problem with the holdens is that they dont like to rev 
constantly.  The stock pistons fatigue and you will eventually pull the 
crown off of #3 or #5 (these get the hottest partic #5, i dont recall 
why...)  This is especially true of a stock 202, watch that Temp.  

cheers, best of luck

-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 01:17:57 -0500
From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing 

On Thu, 30 May 1996, Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil> 
wrote:

 I don't know for sure what it does in the rest of the world, but from what I've 
heard 2nd hand, RJR is only using Camel trophy to sell cothing. 

Where is this clothing available? I would guess that the high-end items I see 
advertised in LROI are bought by very few people. If their intention is to 
distance cigarettes from the trophy, then the clothes/watches etc would be 
Rainforest Wear or some other. Who would fall for a gambit that a Lucky Strike 
Trophy was only in the business to promote Luckies Brand socks and underwear? 
>	If you dont' want to buy _any_ product from a company that produces
>carcinogens or causes others to suffer, that's your choice.  But to avoid
>being hypocritical you might find yourself with a very limited number of
>products that you can buy.

>> Well said.	But then remember the well-used quote about "never underestimate 
the ability of a single committed voice to change the status quo - indeed it is 
the only thing that has done so". 

In our part of the world the Japanese have been bribing governments to gain 
votes to allow them to continue whaling and stop to the establishment of the 
Southern Ocean whale sanctuary. They also dominate the auto market here. Their 
manipulation of island fisheries has wasted a lot of our time, and that was the 
final straw in deciding that I would avoid every one of their products that I 
could. Luckily I knew about the Slavins, so a non-dealership 90 was easy, 15 
months ago. Since then I have lured two others into importing Solihulls. It may 
be small potatoes but it feels really good each time I see another square-body 
LR that could have been a rice-burner jeeplet. 

However, as Ben implies, it can be difficult to stick to one's convictions. I 
have a lot of Nipponese camera gear that I use underwater, but there is no other 
alternative source of appropriate equipment and I have to live with this this 
stuff for now.

Regards,
Allan

 

------------------------------
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Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing 
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:31:46 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <bulk.25765.19960530184522@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you wrote:

> Maybe I'm cynical about tobacco companies, but I somehow doubt Reynold's
> makes enough from the clothing, boots and watches to pay for the CT. Then
> again the prices appear to be very high compared to non-logo goods.

	Well, start with LR donating 70 Rovers (that's a savings of, what, 
$1.5 million (US).   I wouldn't be surprised if the annual cost for the
whole thing is ~$10 million (US).  I don't have any hard data and haven't
spent the time to do an estimate.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------
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Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing 
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 01:07:45 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <bulk.27071.19960530221946@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you wrote:
  
> Where is this clothing available? I would guess that the high-end items I see
> advertised in LROI are bought by very few people. 

	I think most of thier market is currently in Europe.

> Who would fall for a gambit that a Lucky Strike
> Trophy was only in the business to promote Luckies Brand socks and underwear?

	I think that Camel Trophy clothing directly due to the success of the 
Camel Trophy.   I guess for me since the word "Camel" has other connotations
than cigarrettes, the words "Camel Trophy" doesn't immediatly remind me of
cigarrettes.  In fact the first thing that comes to my mind is the animal 
(which also is yellowish).  Now the only thing that I have heard associated
with "Lucky Strike" is cigarettes, so a Lucky Strike Trophy would remind me
of Cigarettes.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:15:52 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: 'Nother Moan...

While we are moaning:-)LRW magazine had an interview with the current
MD of Land Rover.Current issue(I think),in which he is quoted as
saying"From our birth with the Defender product in 1948...."
WHAT Defender product??? I dont know about the other Series Drivers,but
I dont drive a Defender.I drive a S11A LAND ROVER.I hasten to add that
I have nothing against Defenders at all,but I dont want one...(Well,mebbe
a 130 crewcab...)and I object to the hijacking of the old vehicles to
provide the company with doctored publicity.
What's more,over here,if you ask someone what *that* vehicle is,and point
to a S1,he'll tell you its a Land Rover(as well as looking a bit funny at
you 'cos you dont actually *know*).Then point at a Defender and ask the
same question,and he'll tell you that's a Land Rover as well.
The only time I've actually heard the 90 and 110 referred to by a name
is when people call 'em Discoveries.
If the company spent less time rewriting history and attended to quality
control,perhaps they'd do a little better.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:27:31 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing

        I don't care if the sponsoring company sells Camel Adventure Gear or
> Camel Condoms. It is still carrying the logo and name of a company dealing in
> dangerous carcinogens and adding to the untold expense and misery caused by
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>hundreds of thousands of civilians.   Will you not fly 707s, 727s and 747s
>because they have Boeing logos?  Gasoline is carcinogenic, yet we use it
>every day.
Agreed.We have a saying over here:"It says OXO on the sides of buses,but
that doesnt mean they sell it."
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: "Mr Ian Stuart" <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:32:53 +0000
Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing 

Quoting Wdcockey@aol.com, from 30 May 96

> Maybe I'm cynical about tobacco companies, but I somehow doubt Reynold's
> makes enough from the clothing, boots and watches to pay for the CT. Then
> again the prices appear to be very high compared to non-logo goods.
at 130 quid for a pair of semi-decent boots (I'm a sad git who's got a 
pair), or 200 quid for a watch - someone is ROLLING in dosh!

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

Quote of 1996: "A.L.S. is a good example of scottishissityness"

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From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: More Camel Trophy bashing 
Date: Fri, 31 May 96 9:43:42 BST

> > Maybe I'm cynical about tobacco companies, but I somehow doubt Reynold's
> > makes enough from the clothing, boots and watches to pay for the CT. Then
> > again the prices appear to be very high compared to non-logo goods.

> at 130 quid for a pair of semi-decent boots (I'm a sad git who's got a 
> pair), or 200 quid for a watch - someone is ROLLING in dosh!

Right, then shall we have a special LRO line? Call it "Hump-Wear" or something?
:-)

We could have such logos as "I'm wired to my Landie" (no reference to Lucas!)

Speaking of wired, we're famous - see this "month" (summer) LROi - a special
article on Landies on the Web. Of course the Listserver gets first mention.
Haven't read the article yet - it only arrived this morning, but had a quick
scan through.

Richard (SIII FFR in sick-bay)

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:52:31 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: LR Magazine

>Can someone recommend a good Land Rover magazine that is worth subscribing to ?
>In Chile there are some decent 4WD magazines but I want something specific
>for LR.
Rodrigo,Try Land Rover Owner International.You can E-Mail them for details
at: lro@maxcom.demon.co.uk

>PS. There is good wine also.
I've had some over here.Wonderful!
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:59:58 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Even MORE Camel Trophy bashing

> I'd say ban the death sticks.

You tried that with booze.Look where *that* got you!Did the armament industry
no end of good.
Mike Rooth

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From: Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de
Subject: Re: 'Nother Moan...
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 12:15:12 +0200 (METDST)

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Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:18:52 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Camel stuff

>Now I know just how dangerous Camel's really are....
>cheers

You kid not...They spit at one end,crap at the other,and smell all round.
Which is a pretty good definition of a Land Rover,when you think about it.
Which is why they paint them that funny colour.Added realism.Simple annit?
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 31 May 96  6:42:26 EDT
Subject: Temperature Sender fittings

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