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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 07:26:27 -0500
From: michelbe@login.net (Michel)
Subject: Re: Eezybleed

David said:

>which will keep the soft pipes out of harms way (flying rocks, tree 
>roots etc.).

Copper pipes? They sure are illegal here in Canada, on a car's braking
system. Looks like it can't resist the high pressure from the brake fluid.
We have to install steel lines over here and to do so yourself you can buy
for a bout 15$ US a "brake-pipe-bending-tool" at Princess Auto (I think it's
like a J.C. Whitney, but Canadian and almost coast-to-coast). I did my whole
109, almost twice (first single sytem, second when I changed to dual). Check
your local laws and don't mess with safety.

It is possible to switch from single to dual fairly easily. You need : brake
servo, proper master cylinder (88 or 109), extra pipes, some metal
cissors(to cut the wing so the servo can fit) and a dual 5-way switch
(optional) or at lest a 3-way junction.

E-mail me for more info.

Michel Bertrand
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada

1963 109 PU (Rudolph)
1968 109 SW (in the works)
1973 88 SW (21st century project)

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer <Alan_Richer.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 15 Mar 96  7:48:59 EST
Subject: Re: Eezybleed

Before this argument starts again:

The copper that the Brit and European types talk about isn't copper - it's a 
cupronickel alloy made for the purpose. lovely stuff, typically unavailable in 
NA except as imported by foreign parts dealers.

Anyone who uses soft copper water pipe for brake lines is goig to get very dead 
in short order when they fail from vibration-induced hardening and cracking...

    aj"I'll take steel for off-road, thanks"r

------------------------------

From: Joao Parreira <jparreira@mail.telepac.pt>
Subject: SIII toy model. Any scale!
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:03:46 +-100

Does anyone knows where to find a nice SIII toy model in any scale,
except 1:1 :-) ?

It doesn't matter if it is only available in hell, I'll get it!

 ***********************************************************
 *   Joao Tomas Parreira                                       *
 *   jparreira@mail.telepac.pt                                 *
 *   INTELLECTOR LTD.				 *
 *   I.T. Consultant				 *
 *   1980 88' SIII					 *
 *						 *
 *   LAND ROVER'S FIRST			 *
 *   BECAUSE LAND ROVERS LAST!		 *
 ***********************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:11:05 GMT
From: "T.Stevenson" <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Zen

>In a word, yes. Why do you doubt this? Having been one with my 109 for far too 
>long now, it is my esteemed opinion that Lucas electrics are a bad joke that 
>britain foisted on the world as revenge for the loss of its Empire holdings....

I'm afraid not; the revenge is directed entirely against N. America for
inventing the pop-tart.
-------------------------------------
Tom Stevenson  gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station
Millport, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland

Tel 01475 530581
Fax 01475 530601
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer <Alan_Richer.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 15 Mar 96  9:31:01 EST
Subject: Re: Zen

>>In a word, yes. Why do you doubt this? Having been one with my 109 for far 
too 
>>long now, it is my esteemed opinion that Lucas electrics are a bad joke that 
>>Britain foisted on the world as revenge for the loss of its Empire 
holdings....

>I'm afraid not; the revenge is directed entirely against N. America for
>inventing the pop-tart.
-------------------------------------
>Tom Stevenson  gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
>Millport, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland

Or maybe for not inventing it in Haggis and Chutney flavour?

  aj"Why a Sheep's stomach, of all things!?!?"r

------------------------------

From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Land Rover Jamboree
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 01:02:23 +1030 (CDT)

Sorry for the x-posting but this may be of interest to all lists.

The Landrover Register of South Australia Inc. is please to extend an 
invitation to all Landrover owners, drivers, and those merely 
interested, to attend our third annual Blinman Landrover Jamboree.
The venue is the historic township of Blinman in the picturesque Flinders 
Ranges, the time is May 18-20 1996.  Come and Join us for three days of 
Landrover mania.

For further details please contact me off-line.

(to get an idea of this event look in the sept (?) 1995 issue of LRW 
magazine, the one with "Dust Devil's" and you know who's stage 1 on the cover
:-)

cheers hope to see you there
  -- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:00:48 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Zen

, it is my esteemed opinion that Lucas electrics are a bad joke that
>>>Britain foisted on the world as revenge for the loss of its Empire
>holdings....
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>Or maybe for not inventing it in Haggis and Chutney flavour?
>  aj"Why a Sheep's stomach, of all things!?!?"r
Why not? The sheep had no further use for it.
Tom's got it right,but incomplete.He should have added that the Empire
was also given away in revenge directed against North America.That way
they'd have to pay its foreign aid bills.It worked,as well!

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:19:43 +0100
From: Andre <andre@officeline.no>
Subject: <no subject>

help
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Office line Mac & carry a.s                     André Budeng
PB 9804 Ila                                     
Sagveien 17                                     Phone:+47 22 38 48 00
N-0132 Oslo, Norway                             Fax  :+47 22 56 33 51

Internet: http://www.officeline.no

---------------------------------------------------------------------
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Any Mizzpellings are due to line noise or transmission errors.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:18:14 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: More News of the Wanderers

Coming thick and fast at present.Well,mebbe not fast,these *are* Land
Rovers...
The lads are now in RSA itself, have been through the Kruger Park,
and despite trying mightily,didnt manage a road kill supper.(The postcard
shows two rather fine Kudu,presumably among the ones that got away).
One member of the group managed to back a Land Rover into a ditch whilst
*reversing* after a rhino.Perhaps our South African friends can comment
on whether this is a new hunting technique,attacking the game *arse*
first?I suppose its handy if you have to run away.It was,apparently,somewhat
embarrassing to have to unditch the vehicle protected by the watchful(and
presumably mirthful) eyes of several game wardens and their .303s.
They seem to be enjoying themselves......
Whilst on the subject of Kudu,what a sensible country is South Africa,to
breed animals equipped with two corkscrews.Cook the rest,and open the bottles
while you wait.Makes opening beer bottles on 11A dash panels seem quite crude
by comparison.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 09:34:34 PST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Weber 34-ICH.

> I assume that the lowest screw on the carburettor, fitted
> with a coil spring(oops) between head and body, is the
> mixture screw. Is this correct?
> How do I adjust mixture on my SIII 2,25 engine.
Here's the basic instructions I was given:

With the engine warmed to operating temp, adjust the idle speed to
approximately 900 RPM.  Turn the mixure screw in until the engine starts to
run rough.  Back it out until it runs smoothly and continue backing it out
until it starts to decrease in RPM. Turn in approximately 1 turn.

>From my little experience, and getting advice from the motorheads at work, the 
way to do it is as you described, but not just to "turn in approximately 1 
turn". The idea is that you get the idle as fast and as smooth as the mixture 
screw will get it(by slowly turning it out). 
On my LR, I can turn it out until the screw is loose, and the engine never
decreases in RPM or runs rough.  So, after trying the full range of
possibilities, I go a reasonable amount after it runs smooth and call it good.  
It wont change a whole lot, but if you listen carefully you can tell. It's a 
rather minute adjustment actually, there's only a very small "window" where 
turning the screw will get you anywhere. The reason you wait for it to drop off 
is that you then know where the highest idle is, so you can go back to it. Then 
you should set the idle speed using the throttle stop screw, back to 800 or 900 
or whatever you like. I found that my success rate is much better when I set 
valve clearances at the same time. I've ben doing it by ear, and then checking 
the idle speed when I'm done. I suggest that you *all* put away your tachs and 
train those ears that god gave you. You'll be better off for it and you'll learn
to recognize the sound of a smooth running engine. Oh, wait, this is the LR 
list...

Dave "What the hell does 'piston slap' sound like?" B

SIII 88 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 09:52:02 PST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: frame up rebuilds

This savant philosophy is not restricted to Rovers. Rebuilding any car or 
truck from the rubber up is an undertaking that should be measured in years.
...snip...

 Don't overwhelm yourself 
especially if it's the first time you've owned such a vehicle. Are you really 
saving money doing it this way? 

No, and I didn't plan it like this...:-)

Sometimes its better to pay a few thou up 
front for a car you can enjoy driving and not a heap you have to spend 1000 
hours cleaning up.
BTW, this applies to boats as well.

Wait a damn minute, now Bill. A frame over can be whatever you want it to be. 
When I do mine I am going to replace most of the things that I need to replace 
anyway. Hydraulics, springs, etc... I'll take the opportunity to put in a new 
clutch since I'll be in there. For the most part it's going to be a straight 
swap. No bodywork. No minute detail work. This is a Land Rover for crying out 
loud, it doesn't have to be pretty. Admittedly, my vehicle is in pretty damn 
good shape compared to some of the "lawn ornaments" I've seen. The only thing 
that wasn't really maintained was the chassis... 
I've calculated everything I'm going to do and everything I'm going to buy 
(yeah, right) and I'm estimating it'll cost me about a grand. I've got a lot of 
used parts so I'm saving some big bucks. There really isn't much to a Land Rover
if you really think about it. Maybe a 109 SW has more bits. If you are going to 
be "anal retentive" than you can spend tons of time and get every piece brand 
new and shiny. I prefer to do as little as necessary and make the vehicle safe 
and functional. I also want it to retain it's "scars", as they tell a story of 
it's previous lives. I will miss the smashed crossmember on the old frame...

Cheers

Dave "You're right thought if it's a real basket case" B.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:39:12 -0500
From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg)
Subject: Signing off for a spell...

I'm off on vacation  -- "oh no, not another frothy rum drink -- and have
signed off the list to prevent "kickback" from a full mailbox.   If anybody
is looking for me, I'm incommunicado until April 1.  I'll catch you folks
in a couple of weeks.

RoverOn!

JAB

==                                                                      ==
 Jeffrey A. Berg          Purple Shark Media                 Rowayton, CT

                         jeff@purpleshark.com
                          ==================
               My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
          My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
                       Taste for the good life,
                      I can see it no other way.
                                --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)
==                                                                      ==

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:25:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Zen and the pop-tart, an American Icon of Morning Repast

In a message dated 96-03-15 09:12:05 EST, you write:

>'m afraid not; the revenge is directed entirely against N. America for
>inventing the pop-tart.
>-------------------------------------
>Tom Stevenson  gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk

Thomas Stevenson, you be careful, you are dangersously close to attacking an
American Icon of Morning Repast.  Watch your ground sir.  I suppose next
you'll go after Miracle Whip, or, or, or, or, or, VELVEETA!!

Zounds Man!

JohnnyAppleseed in Wisconsin
:>)
1994 D90
("I like the brown sugar ones...")

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 16:33:39 GMT
From: "T.Stevenson" <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Zen

>Or maybe for not inventing it in Haggis and Chutney flavour?

         Not together, surely? Anyway, chutney is Indian.
>  aj"Why a Sheep's stomach, of all things!?!?"r

        I think the explanation is obvious; the sheep's stomach is more
edible than pop-tart 'pastry'.

yours gastronomically

Tom "I wasna fou, but just had plenty" Stevenson
Millport, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 12:29:14 PST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Series Tech questions...

Dear All.

 Its time to ask the list some questions, instead of just making wisecracks...

I have noticed an increasing loss of coolant. There might be a leak at the 
bottom of the radioator, which would make it easy, but I cna't tell for sure. 
(Could just be residual moisture from rain, or spilled coolant from pouring.) 
But anyway, since there are no obvious leaks I am beginning to suspect that 
prehaps since i replaced the valve gear i may need to re-torque the cyl. head. 
When I did it the first time, I had to remove the 5 head bolts that hold the 
rocker shaft. I put it back without retorquing the others(that hadn't been 
loosened. Some of them needed retorquing so I did just those, but I still 
followed the order. So I'm thinking that i should maybe go back and loosen them 
all and retorque them in order. Is this just asking for trouble? Should I 
actually check to see if I'm burning some coolant? I haven't seen any in the oil
so I'm not sure what's going on. I suspect that maybe it's a small enough leak 
to just burn off in the cylinder(s). Also there was coolant in one of the head 
bolt holes when I replaced it which i later found out could be bad if it gets 
compressed under the bolt. And last but not least, if use an extension between 
the socket and the torque wrench, does that change the amount of torque I 
actually get? I can't reach all of the head bolts w/out some kind of 
extension...
And also, is there a way to find my leak other than leak down testing the engine
or pressure testing the cooling system?

Thanks 

Dave "Going out of my head" B.

SIII 88... still going

Washington DC

dbobeck@ushmm.org

------------------------------

From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 14:08:55 EST
Subject: Re[2]: Range Rover EFI and mileage

     I have been reading my backlog of messages and found a reference to a 
     magazine called "Car Mechanics". Did this magazine run an article 
     related to Range Rovers and EFI? If so can someone please tell me 
     which month this article appeared in "Car Mechanics"?
     
     I haven't seen a response to Rob's message yet - Car Mechanics is 
     published in the UK.
     
     Regards
     Mike Lenaghan
     87 RRs (2)
     
     Chris,
     Where is "Car Mechanics" magazine published? I looked for it at
     lunch at huge mag shop in the world trade center. They have lots of 
     obscure mags from around the world but, had never heard of it. I even 
     found 2 different magazines all about car washes!
     
     Rob
     

> Subject: Re: Range Rover EFI and mileage
> Author:  Land-Rover-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net at inetmail

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
> Author:  Land-Rover-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net at inetmail
> Date:    3/11/96 1:26 PM

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:17:37 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re[3]: Weber 34-ICH.

At 09:34 AM 3/15/96 PST, David Bobeck <dbobeck@ushmm.org> writes:
:On my LR, I can turn it out until the screw is loose, and the engine
:never decreases in RPM or runs rough. ...I suggest that you *all* put
:away your tachs and train those ears that god gave you.

 The Land Rover engine is very forgiving and runs well under a wide range
 of settings or abuse.  Ear tuning will do well in the bush, but to fault
 diagnose and adjust settings, such as dwell, using instruments is best.
 Once set, you can duplicate the settings from feel and experience later.

 As to idle, the purpose here is to keep the engine from dying when the
 foot is off of the accelerator.  Once the engine accelerates, the fuel
 to the idle mixture screw port gets cut off, and fuel that is mixed by
 your main jet port is used.  Under power any screw settings are not
 relevant.  The only way to change the fuel mixture is replace the main
 jet and/or emulsion tube.  Another careful adjustment to be made is the
 setting and travel of the float, as well as the fuel pressure which is
 should be 2.5-3 psi, but not over 3.5 psi.  The float is particularly
 important on off-road conditions where the vehicle is not always level
 and an adequate supply of fuel in the reservoir is required.

 Cheers,
                         ______
 Michael Carradine       [__[__\==                    Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900            [________]               Land-Rover Roughmobile
 cs@crl.com  __________.._(o)__.(o)____...o^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88")
 _______________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page:   http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:30:52 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Eezybleed

Alan Richer wrote:
> The copper that the Brit and European types talk about isn't copper - it's a
> cupronickel alloy made for the purpose. lovely stuff, typically unavailable in
> NA except as imported by foreign parts dealers.

Thank you Alan for making this clear. I regret not giving the whole truth, and 
used the word copper to distinguish it from steel. I had thought that the material 
was well known. Any auto supplier would, of course know the type and is unlikely 
to stock soft copper water pipe!
 In terms of off road use, I take your point, but properly routed out of harms 
way, I would think cupro-nickel alloy should be OK, and is far more corrosion 
resistant than steel. My SIII is completely re-piped in cn and I have not had any 
problems.

-- 
David Olley
.....................................................................................
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:11:19 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: Coolant leaks was Re: Series Tech questions...

You wrote: 
>Dear All.

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> Its time to ask the list some questions, instead of just making wisecracks...
>I have noticed an increasing loss of coolant. 
snip
>And also, is there a way to find my leak other than leak down testing the engine
>or pressure testing the cooling system?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>Thanks 
>Dave "Going out of my head" B.
It sort of sounds like you've done some basic checks already.  I'll just list:

Is the coolant translucent (good) or cloudy (bad)?
Is the oil brown (good) or milky (bad)?
Is the exhaust excessively white (bad)?

Check the vicinity of the water pump bearing and seal.  Leakage of a failed pump 
from the bearing area is not uncommon and may only show up at first glance as a drip 
somewhere on the oil pan.

Try parking your vehicle over some papers (towels, newspapers etc.) for a while to 
check for active drips.

Cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 15:33:35 PST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Fuel mixing

>> i haven't run
out of coleman fuel yet, but when i do, it is going to be a 
tough decision to buy a new can when i can use unlead straight
from the fuel pump off the 2.25l.

ray harder (siia 88 (lulu))

I believe there's a problem with this, but I don't remember what it is. Ceratin 
camping items are designed to run on different fuels, some of them are 
multi-fuel, i.e, kerosene, white gas, or unleaded. Most are just white gas. 
Apparently it's tough to get white gas in Europe (is this true?) so the multi's 
are popular. The regular white gas equipment is "designed" to break into a 
million pieces if you put anything else in it...so don't do it :-) Also I 
believe white gas is also known as Naptha which is also known as Zippo lighter 
fluid. Haven't tried Coleman fuel in the Zippo yet though...Naptha is also handy
for cleaning adhesives, and other solvent based products off of somewhat 
delicate surfaces, like car fininshes, plexiglas (perspex), and other plastics. 
Will remove duct tape residue from ANYTHING!. JFYI
Have fun, and don't breathe too much of it...

Dave B.
Just ordered *most* of my pieces for the frame-up. I've been collecting used 
stuff for a while now...Finally had to spend some imaginary (plastic) money...
How's that for inspiration... 2 huge boxes of parts laying around the house.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 22:00:14 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Eezybleed

Thanks to everybody who replied to my query about the availability of 
Eezybleed in the US (and the UK, and the NL). Since I will be in the UK in 
April, I will get the thing there.
Thanks again
 
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

From: Harincar.2@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar-MS)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:04:37 -0600
Subject: Zen and survival

Christian wrote...

>>From: Harincar@mdms.com (Tim Harincar-MS)
>>Coil sprung owners are more like his traveling partner with the BMW bike.   
>>He puts his faith in modern engineering and superior workmanship to get   
>>him where he wants to go without problems.

>  Careful with the generalisation! Some of us Discovery owners will not
>  only become one with the mechanics but we will try to deal with our
>  electronics on a super-concious plane :-). My only concern is whether
>  trying to become one in the Lucas realm will drive a man insane :-/.

Sorry, wasn't ment to be a derogatory comment. 

..

Here's a thought experiment for all of you:

Picture this if you will. I don't know if any of you have ever read
_Lucifer's Hammer_ by Larry Niven, but the basic idea is that the 
earth is pummeled by a comet, and its the adventures of certian 
survivors. We got it all: Title waves, hurricanes, earth quakes,
tornados, the works. Government is wiped out; Anarchy erupts, and its 
pretty much everyone for themselves (I know, I know, sounds like
paradise, right?).

Now, since it was a comet, we had lots of warning, and a lot of people
"headed for the hills" so to speak. Now, here's your question. You
have your gear, and you're going to head out to the hills, too, to
try and survive the comet. In your driveway are the following vehicles:
a '66 IIa 88 SW (poppy red, no less :-) ), an '85 RR classic, and a '94
Disco. All NAS, just to make it interesting. You (because I'm making 
this up) can only take one of the three. All have a full tank of gas.
The Disco is a '94 to assume thats its broken in and the initial
bugs worked out.

All have roof racks, none have winches. The 'typical' amount of spares
for the vehicle type are present: the IIa, a pretty good selection; the
RR, some for basic things; the Disco, none or very, very basic (like
spare plugs & fuses). You have a spare case of oil that you can use for
any, and a high lift jack you could also bring with any. The spares for
the IIa take up space, so you may have to make some decisions of what
spares to bring or leave some gear.

Which vehicle do you choose? Why?

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com <- use this address, regardless of what my 
                        'reply to' says...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 13:16:01 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: Re: frame up rebuilds

You wrote: 
> Rebuilding any car or 
>truck from the rubber up is an undertaking that should be measured in years.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>here or there to clean up a rusty part every once in a while. Miracles do 
>happen
snip
>Bill Adams

As I near the end of a "rubber up" restoration, I'll chip in here.  It can be 
done in under a year.  I've taken about half a year of frequent (1/2 to 2/3 of 
all weekends in that period ?) all weekend efforts.  Admittedly I live in the 
relatively decent climate of California, but this effort has also been performed 
in a driveway (portions of the garage assigned to temporary storage). 
You are correct though that to do the job properly you must be prepared to spend 
thousands of dollars (I'd say between $3,000 and $9,000 (closer to the larger 
figure) depending on how far you want to go and the original condition.  On the 
whole I think the amount you are willing to spend is a bit more important than 
the time factor.  Time is not so much the issue as dedication to make the time.

There's a big payoff at the end.  You might have been able to buy a vehicle in 
decent condition for the amount invested in the rebuild, but you'll never really 
know it's mechanical condition.  By the time I'm done I'm going to be very 
comfortable taking the vehicle off road and working on it in the future since at 
this point I basically know the condition of every bolt and washer on the beast. 
 I doubt one can purchase a used vehicle with that kind of assurance.

Cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:24:51 -0700
From: "Lee Zeltzer" <lzeltzer@isdnet.com>
Subject: Re: Zen and survival

Tim Harincar-MS wrote:
> Christian wrote...
> >>From: Harincar@mdms.com (Tim Harincar-MS)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)]
> paradise, right?).
>snip

Now let me think.... Which list is this? 
-- 
Lee Zeltzer, Senior Consultant
Innovative System Design
100 N. Stone Ave. Suite 605
Tucson AZ 85701
(520)791-3323 X 21
http://www.isdnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 16:38:26 PST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[4]: Weber 34-ICH.

Mike Carradine says...

At 09:34 AM 3/15/96 PST, David Bobeck <dbobeck@ushmm.org> writes:
:On my LR, I can turn it out until the screw is loose, and the engine
:never decreases in RPM or runs rough.

I didn't write that part :-) Mine definitley will run rough, given the 
opportunity.

>  Ear tuning will do well in the bush, but to fault
> diagnose and adjust settings, such as dwell, using instruments is best.
> Once set, you can duplicate the settings from feel and experience later.

Really just meant to say that I think it's important to  learn what a healthy 
engine sounds like. I spent alot of time fiddling with tachs and dwell meters, 
but I did much better when doing it by ear, then checking it after with the 
tach. Also dwell obviously needs to be set with a meter. 

Dave "You can't hear dwell" B.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 16:47:43 PST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Eezybleed

Alan and Mr Olley quibble over the virtues of different brake pipes:

........snip...........

to stock soft copper water pipe!
..snip..    I take your point, but properly routed out of harms 
way, I would think cupro-nickel alloy should be OK, and is far more corrosion 
resistant than steel. My SIII is completely re-piped in cn ...snip.....
-- 
David Olley

I just ordered all new steel brake pipes. I don't think copper is really 
necessary unless you don't plan on looking after your vehicle...
Since my chassis is NOT galvanised, I'll be spending plenty of time under there 
spraying oil. No matter to hit a few brake pipes while I'm at it. If you've got 
a flaring tool, and you don't mind making up the lines, than copper could be 
economical, but here there was one kit available already made up, for SIII, but 
didn't account for the dual master cylinder. So it was already US $120, plus you
had to buy/fabricate a few extra lines. So I'm getting steel lines, with plastic
clips that keep it slightly off the chassis, to keep crap (rust) from getting 
trapped under them. They will be painted and then hopefully will be sufficiently
rust proofed. The steel lines that Guy put on the car about a year ago were 
already dtarting ot rust when i picked it up. they weren't painted. (Sorry Guy) 
However they work nicely, and now I don't have to buy them :-)

Dave "I like stopping" B.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 16:51:13 PST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: St. Patties.

     Cheers to all, and remember not to use your dashboard bottle openers 
     while moving...
     
     Glug, Glug, Glug,
     There goes another pint...
     
     Dave B.
     '72 SIII SWB "Drinks as many as I do"
     Washington DC

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 13:51:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Zen and survival

> Which vehicle do you choose? Why?

Sooo Tim trying to start another flame war among the ranks?

My answer of course is to pick the car that was designed to be field repaired
in a jungle with essentually a crescent wrench and a screwdriver.  One that
is simple to work on.

I'd paint the 88 camo, trade the RR for an ex-military trailer and the Disco
for supplies to fill the 88 & trailer.

If every second counted, I would siphon the fuel out of the others & bid them
a fond goodby & get out of Dodge with a drippy wet camo painted 88.

PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS AS A FLAME ON DISCOVERIES OR RANGE ROVERS

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 16:30:51 PST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Coolant leaks was Re: Series Tech questions...

It sort of sounds like you've done some basic checks already.  I'll just list:

Is the coolant translucent (good) or cloudy (bad)?

Same as all my other cars have ever been :-)

Is the oil brown (good) or milky (bad)?

More like black. But yeah, essentially brown. No Water indiicated, at leas ton 
dipsticky.

Is the exhaust excessively white (bad)?

No! Very little visible emissions. (Yes, Im sure it IS a Land Rover!) This is 
why I'm puzzled. I get a bit of balck smoke with the choke out, and then it 
claens up.

Check the vicinity of the water pump bearing and seal.  Leakage of a failed pump

from the bearing area is not uncommon and may only show up at first glance as a
drip 
somewhere on the oil pan.

That's what I'm afraid of. I can't see well enough behind that fan to tell. 
Maybe if I get underneath and wait for it to drip on my face.

Try parking your vehicle over some papers (towels, newspapers etc.) for a while
to 
check for active drips.

Acht, it is so dry under there, I don't uderstand eet. Whatever is leaking it's 
either drying up from th heat before it hits the ground or its burning up inside
the engine. Hmm...

Cheers,

Thanks..
Dave

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 16:57:31 -0500 (EST)
From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens)
Subject: Re: Series Tech questions...

>Also there was coolant in one of the head
>bolt holes when I replaced it which i later found out could be bad if it gets
>compressed under the bolt.
        You're right, Dave, this is BAD and can lead to a cracked head.

>And last but not least, if use an extension between
>the socket and the torque wrench, does that change the amount of torque I
>actually get?

        Nope

Chris Stevens
Towson, MD
'69 88" SRIIA SW

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 18:09:59 -0500
From: cmw@tiac.net (Christopher Weinbeck)
Subject: Coleman Fuel

Alan was wondering what the octane rating of Coleman fuel might be and Ray
suggested it was pretty much simply unleaded gasoline.  I don't have the
specifics as to the actual octane rating for the stuff, but as far as
vehicle use is concerned it might as well be 50.  It is used in camp stoves,
lanterns and such because it is easy to vaporize.  Unleaded can easily be
used in most such appliances but they may not light or settle down to even
burning very quickly -better used in standard stoves than lanterns but you
can buy the generator specified for the unleaded model of your lamp to
replace the original.
-All for use with/near your Land Rover of course.

Chris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Christopher Weinbeck       Office Logic, Inc.      V (508) 392-0288
   _______                  7 Littleton Road        F (508) 692-0897   
  |__][_[_\__               Westford, MA 01886            
  |___\_|_]__]          
    (o)    (o)  -Artist's conception of, as yet, undeliverd Rover.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 16:01:27 GMT -0600
Subject: visit to Nashville

I just thought of an excuse to drink beer (as if I needed one). I'm 
going to be in Nashville in April for the IBM Technical Interchange. 
If there are any Rover owners there who would like to show me where 
to get a quality pint and discuss the pleasures (and headaches) of 
roverdom, I'd love to meet up with you on Sunday the 21st.
If there's more than one of you we could make it a group quaff.
I'll be staying at the Shonney's Motel across from the Opryland 
Hotel.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: Real Rovers can too have coil springs
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 17:36:40 EST

> Gary Madden asks:
> > Since the list is now split, is it OK for the coil-sprung Defender owners
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> Well gang, what do you think? Should we let him in and show him the 
> secret handshake?

Does he drink?

Not Bud, though,
rd/nige

ps If his rig was assembled in true Wilksian fashion, it's gotta have a bottle
opener on it somewhere....find it, fill us in on how it works, and we'll
think about it....but seatbelt buckles won't do-even Discos have them....

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 17:42:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Real Rovers can too have coil springs

On Fri, 15 Mar 1996, Russell G. Dushin wrote:

> ps If his rig was assembled in true Wilksian fashion, it's gotta have a bottle
> opener on it somewhere....find it, fill us in on how it works, and we'll
> think about it....but seatbelt buckles won't do-even Discos have them....

	We gotta try out Jon's Range Rover at the Birthday Party.  On some
	earlier years you can use the front grill as an opener.  Only drawback
	it you have to pull it off ever so often and remove all the caps.
	:-)

------------------------------

From: Harincar.2@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar-MS)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 16:46:01 -0600
Subject: RE: Zen and survival

Chris wrote ...

    

 >    Trick question!
 >    85 NAS RR ?????? where did you find that one? thought 87 was the
 >    earliest year!

Ok, sorry. I couldn't remember the first year for NAS RR's. Lets say '87   
or '88, then. The idea was to have a reasonably old RR in the group, not   
a trick question. :-) I just want to know how people would make the   
decision.

:-)

Tim
 ---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com      <- this address!
'66 IIa 88 SW  

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: Series Brake Shoes
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 18:02:33 EST

> One of my more recent projects was an overhaul of my brakes. Two weeks after
> replacing all shoes, drums, Front WC, and MC, I went on a rather muddy jaunt to
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)]
> help sort this out. I will post any info that I find out. Until then if anyone
> has changed their shoes recently, I would check them for wear.

Has RN offerred to replace your drums as well???  Dammit, they should (at 
LRNAs expense).  They were, afterall, kind and honest enough to point out 
that the "genuine" shoes were of the wrong camber (and this does, of course,
assume that you weren't putting 88 brake shoes on a 109, or vica versa)-
they're probably willing to admit that scoring to your drums could result
as well. Surely, they can get reimbursed from LRNA. 

I'm not RN bashing here, by any means, but I am "genuine bashing".  
Here is yet another case of genuine bits not living up to their name.  
Damage to your vehicle resulted......and you really do have a case, IMO.  
At least it wasn't a warped head or a cracked block, *THIS* time.

RU listening, Mr. LRNA lurker?,
rd/nige (a satisfied RN customer, nonetheless, but no longer sold on the
          "genuine" label, especially when it says "made in Sri Lanka" on it)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:16:54 -0800
From: "Richard K. Vaughan" <rkv@sphinx.sphinx.com>
Subject: super-chargers?

Hi:

Does anyone have any information regarding super-chargers for a
1996 4.6 HSE? 

I've seen such devices being advertised for lesser vehicles (Suburbans),
but I too could use more horsepower. Particularly at altitude, meaning
roads at higher elevations above sea-level, not wheels off the ground.

Any leads you may have will be appreciated.

Thanks,  Richard 96RR4.6HSE

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:37:34 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: Re: Hub Wrenches

You wrote: 
>To all:
>I know we went around the bit some time ago about
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)]
>Submitted for your consideration.
>Larry Smith

This also came up in the past and the consensus seemed to be that they 
were to thin to be better than the cold chisel and hammer.  I'm 
admittedly biased but I prefere the heavy duty tool (I don't have the 
size handy) but I did purchase it through RN.

My experience has generally that cheap tools are worth at best 1 or 2 
uses then you end up buying the real thing anyway.

Cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:28:08 -0800
From: "Richard K. Vaughan" <rkv@pharaoh.sphinx.com>
Subject: super-chargers?

Hi:

Does anyone have any information regarding super-chargers for a
1996 4.6 HSE? 

I've seen such devices being advertised for lesser vehicles (Suburbans),
but I too could use more horsepower. Particularly at altitude, meaning
roads at higher elevations above sea-level, not wheels off the ground.

Any leads you may have will be appreciated.

Thanks,  Richard 96RR4.6HSE

------------------------------

From: BDaviscar@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:12:25 -0500
Subject: Re: 109 parts Sorry wrong address

Sorry this was to be a personal post not a list post.
My goof.

Bruce    Chicago
67 SIIA 88  Patches

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 18:27:24
From: CarDoctor@gnn.com (Robert Davis)
Subject: WAIT A MINUTE how about kit cars(LR)

Hi All,
 I had a friend how loved to build cars from bits & peices of other cars as 
custom cars.  He learned that anyone can build a limited production car(250 
or less) & title it if they have bills for the parts used.
 So here is the question.  If you purchase a legal LR disassemble it 
transport it & reassemble it as a kit car titled as your personal production
of one.  Is this legal?  or would it make the government nuts?

This food of though or what?

Regards,
Rob Davis_chicago.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 00:51:12 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Series Tech questions...

Bobeck, David R. wrote:

> When I did it the first time, I had to remove the 5 head bolts that hold the
> rocker shaft. I put it back without retorquing the others(that hadn't been
> loosened.

I have often wondered abou this point myself. I know that the tightening (and 
loosening) order is established to ensure that the stresses are equalised over the 
head to avoid warping. Would the head be subject to warp stresses by removing the 
head bolts passing through the valve shaft pillars? My "play safe" strategy is to 
slacken all bolts and then retorque all of them. I replace the cylinder head gasket 
as a matter of course since it is a good opportunity to take a look inside.

> And last but not least, if use an extension between
> the socket and the torque wrench, does that change the amount of torque I
> actually get? I can't reach all of the head bolts w/out some kind of
> extension...

Provided the centre of the torque wrench remains above the centre of the bolt while 
tightening then there should be no significant change in torque applied. I would 
expect any difference to be within the accuracy range of the wrench.

> And also, is there a way to find my leak other than leak down testing the engine
> or pressure testing the cooling system?

Is it possible that the radiator core is blocked, and/or your expansion pipe and tank 
are not functioning correctly? If the passageways have reduced significantly in 
volume, the total volume of water in the system (including heater matrix) will be 
reduced. This will mean that the percentage of water lost through expansion will be 
greater than normal and give the impression of a leak. This turned out to be the 
cause of this symptom in my wife's mini. In this case replacement of the (almost 
totally blocked) radiator cured the problem, even though there were no leaks.
It could be a broken gasket, of course, as you suspect, allowing pressurisation of 
the cooling system and loss of coolant that way. Water and oil would not necessarily 
mix if the break was just 'twixt cylinder and waterway. This is pretty unlikely, I 
would have thought, since gaskets seem to fail between adjacent cylinders and this is 
then VERY obvious!

I hope I am not talking rubbish. I will be told if I am.:-)

-- 
David Olley
.....................................................................................Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 16:53:57 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Zen and survival

On 3/15/96, Tim Harincar <harincar@mooregs.com> writes on agamemnon:
:In your driveway are the following vehicles:
:a '66 IIa 88 SW (poppy red, no less :-) ), an '85 RR classic, and a '94
:Disco. All NAS, just to make it interesting. You (because I'm making 
:this up) can only take one of the three. All have a full tank of gas.
:
:Which vehicle do you choose? Why?

 That's too easy!!  The IIA of course, because the mechanics are simpler
 and it's more fuel efficent, but most importantly, it can be set to run
 on lower octane "banana peels" without as much trouble as the RR and D.
 (This is the Series list, right? :)

 Cheers,
                         ______
 Michael Carradine       [__[__\==                    Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900            [________]               Land-Rover Roughmobile
 cs@crl.com  __________.._(o)__.(o)____...o^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88")
 _______________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page:   http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------

From: Xavier541@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 20:25:38 -0500
Subject: Repainting

I am interested in repainting my 73 ser III.  I live in the Pacific Northwest
USA and wonder how much I can expect to pay for a quality job.  Does anyone
have suggestions about finding a shop with experience and knowledge in
painting Land Rovers. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 21:48:48 -0500
From: Allan Smith <smitha@mail.CandW.lc>
Subject: Re: rust treatments

Hi all,
I know that some of you are familiar with Waxoyl from the UK. I am trying to 
import from the manufacturers (Hammerite Products) but the shipping alone for a 
couple of gallons is over $200. I checked with our local NAPA outlet but I 
suspect that all of their stuff is just paint-over goop, i.e. physical rather 
than chemical protection. The thing that sounded closest was Rust Kill, with 
barium monoborate, (whatever that means) but I would welcome any info on US 
products suitable for spraying into chassis and similar places that are more 
than just paint.
Thanks
Allan
St. Lucia

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:07:58 -0800
From: Greg Moore <gmoore@mail.comox.island.net>
Subject: Re: Zen and survival

> My answer of course is to pick the car that was designed to be field 
>repaired in a jungle with essentually a crescent wrench and a screwdriver.
> TeriAnn

I just put the transmission back in my 11A yesterday. Crescent wrench and 
a screwdriver eh? Hmmm...

Greg (can't get the crescent wrench around the clutch cross shaft cotter 
pin) M.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:11:02 -0800
From: Greg Moore <gmoore@mail.comox.island.net>
Subject: Re: Series Tech questions...

> >And last but not least, if use an extension between
> >the socket and the torque wrench, does that change the amount of torque I
> >actually get?
>         Nope

Depends if we hold it straight ;-)

Cheers, Greg

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:15:30 +1100 (EST)
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: Bushrangie

there is a picture at
http://www.sofcom.com.au/4WD/Conv/Conv.html

I *think* the Bushrangie is a Dakar built under licence -
not quite sure.  John Davis of Sydney does them (thanks K.Bossard)

Lloyd

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 00:12:43 -0500 (EST)
From: John Antram <rewt@sover.net>
Subject: Vermont Rover Group

	Hello, if I've managed to keep it a secret this long, I'm sorry! 
We are starting a LR group in Vermont; most of the members are in the 
Middlebury area and we are hoping to have a small spring ( MUD! ) rally 
next month or so. If you are interested and in VT/NH/NY or Qubec/Mass and 
like to drive, mail me at my address below or give me a ring from 
6pm-11pm on (802) 388-0737 and I'll send you one of the few news letters 
we have left.

<sorry for the cross posting, we have all kinds of rovers in our group>

John Antram	rewt@sover.net     RR 3 Box 888 Middlebury, VT  05753
1972 Land Rover Series III 88", sunrooves (badly improvised by PO), Red
1995 Land Rover Discovery, 5-speed, sunrooves, Roman Bronze
1987 Mercedes-Benz 300SDL, Anthracite Gray

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 22:12:06 -0700
From: "Lee Zeltzer" <lzeltzer@isdnet.com>
Subject: Great Western Trail

Sorry for the dealy in getting back to you regarding the 4/20 opening of 
the Arizona trail segment. Unfortunately I will be out of State that 
weekend. Perhaps another time.

Lee Zeltzer, Senior Consultant
Innovative System Design
100 N. Stone Ave. #605
Tucson, AZ 85701
lzeltzer@isdnet.com

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: Re: SIII toy model. Any scale!
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 02:05:23 -0700 (MST)

Joao Tomas Parreira asks:

 Does anyone knows where to find a nice SIII toy model in any scale,
 except 1:1 :-) ?
 It doesn't matter if it is only available in hell, I'll get it!

Both the smallest and largest toys I know of are SIII.

Galoob Micromachines makes a very finely detailed 109" only 3 cm long.
Check out their web page (I think I have it linked on my toys.html page)

Bruder (Germany) makes a very nice safari 109" with many movable parts 
(doors, bonnet, winch, baggage).

There may be more details on Lloyd Allison's LR toys page (see link on my 
LR page)

T. F. Mills
tomills@du.edu                               University of Denver Library
http://www.du.edu/~tomills                          Denver  CO 80208  USA

------------------------------

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