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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 07:21:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Re: why North Carolina?

> up shop in North Carolina?  Why did they pick that location?

    There was a big competition amongst the states they had narrowed it
    down to, I'm not sure what the final thing that cinched it was.

    ...but it's SOUTH Carolina, not NC, is it not?

    Duncan

------------------------------

From: Dr Peter Ramsay <RAMSAYP@Geology.und.ac.za>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:20:59 GMT+2
Subject: RE: EP 90 or SIMILAR

Some fellow wanted to know about gear-box  oils in vehicles used in 
higher (> 30 C) temperatures.  I own a D110 with a four-speed LT95 
box and the vehicle spends most of its time (in summer) working in 
temperatures higher than 30 C in South Africa.  I use 20W50 (Castrol GTX 2) in the 
main gearbox and 85W140 in the transfer case and swivel pin housings. 
Assuming that you have a Series vehicle, I would recommend that you 
use 85W140 for Arizona etc.  I was in Arizona in August 94 and it was 
hellish hot!

Happy Rovering

 
**********************************************************************
Dr Peter J Ramsay
Marine Geoscience Unit
P O Box 18091
Dalbridge, 4014
Durban
South Africa
Tel (+2731) 811260
Fax (+2731) 2602280
**********************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 08:58:02 -0500
From: Michael & Krista Kirk <michaelk@infi.net>
Subject: E-Mail Address

Could some please send me the Email address of Renewed Traditions?

Thanks
-- 
=============================================================  	 
Michael & Krista Kirk => "michaelk@infi.net"
Norfolk, Virginia
=============================================================

------------------------------

Date: 8 Mar 1996 15:18:24 U
From: "Marc Rengers" <Marc.Rengers@minerva.media-gn.nl>
Subject: RE: adress query

--

>>>> lists
Majordomo@playground.Sun.COM serves the following lists:

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  test                                                                     =
    
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--

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 09:54:55 -0500
From: "Craig R. Jett" <cjett@voicenet.com>
Subject: Have been gone for a while...

I've been away from my computer for quite a while, when I returned I 
deleted, without reading, the numerous List Splitting messages thinking 
it was more nonsense.  So the questions are... Did the list split?  How 
did they split (breakouts)?  and how do I subscribe to the other lists?

Thanks for the help.
Craig Jett
95 Discovery

------------------------------

From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@mail.biddeford.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:56:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Cummins and Bonnet Questions

.  I didn't even think 
about the 3.9L TD!  It seems to be a better idea to stick to a smaller 
engine with more power than stock than jump up to a monster like the 
5.9L.  Will the IIA or III gearbox be acceptable for a 3.9L swap?  Does 
anyone know if a defender 5 sp will fit into a 109" SW chassis without 
undo trouble?  I am partial to a TD over the stock petrol and diesel 
units because I have grand plans for an Andes (high altitude) adventure 

Michael Roberts, Portland, Oregon, US

Michael,

Due to the right side offset required for the 3.9 Cummins, drive shaft 
clearance with Land Rover gearbox and transfer could be problematic, but 
if someone went this route,  they would be well advised to do some research 
into the types of gearing available throughout the range of later LR/RR 
vehicles to try to get into an area suitable for a low RPM Diesel engine.  Higher 
powered V-8 transmissions and transfer cases , the LT 85 Santana 5-spd, and 
some versions of the LT 230  (28D I think) transfer cases using a 1.22 to 1 high range 
step down are good choices.  The 4 cylinder models used gearing which would 
not be as suitable.  Ian Ashcroft in England was a lot of help to me when I 
was still considering this route, but the information is there in current 
publications or in  the well packed brains of helpful people like those at 
Rovers North.
I wouldn't even consider using standard series stuff.  Great and plenty 
robust for it's original engine, but as an example of the differences in 
power, the Cummins uses a 13 inch clutch compared to the standard 9.5 inch 
type.
As another thing to think about, the "New" Range Rovers now come with front 
diffs on the left, and transfer case to suit, which opens up a lot of 
possibilities if you can find 
the pieces.

Rgds,
Ron Franklin

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:12:18 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Re[2]: National driving habits

> right of way, that he had strapped a railway sleeper (what's that in the US, a 
> crosstie?) 
-
Sounds like.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:20:48 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: why North Carolina?

> Does anybody know the whys, wherefores, etc. of BMW and Mercedes setting 
> up shop in North Carolina?  Why did they pick that location?
-
I suspect because they are non-union states, and if you're building a 
plant, you might as well put it where you want. That's why the plants 
for others were built in TN.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Atlanta67@aol.com
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:21:27 -0500
Subject: LR's 4 sale Web Site

http://users.aol.com/atlanta67/renewed.htm

This web site contains used, refurbished, and remanufactures LR's for sale in
the USA.

Sean Sinkule
Renewed Traditions
(770)392-1593

------------------------------

From: ChrisF6724@aol.com
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:23:50 -0500
Subject: Oil bath filter

This is going to sound like a stupid question, but here it goes:  
I was planning on changing the oil in the air filter.  There is an outer rim
with a "fill to here mark", and an inner cup.  Do you fill the inner cup as
well as the outer?  The service manual is unclear on this point....

Thanks,
Chris "dry ice is cool..;-)" Fisher
'73 LR 88 Series III

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:30:19 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Oil bath filter

> This is going to sound like a stupid question, but here it goes:  
> I was planning on changing the oil in the air filter.  There is an outer rim
> with a "fill to here mark", and an inner cup.  Do you fill the inner cup as
> well as the outer?  The service manual is unclear on this point....

If you fill to "fill here" it will fill both. The answer is yes.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:17:52 -0500

In a message dated 96-03-07 22:17:35 EST, you write:

>I would like to know if the rro list is combined  with the lro list in the
>digest. Apparently there is not a sep. rro-digest. Myself and others have
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>interested can read or scan postings as they wish, and all LR Product Owners
>can benefit. Long live the Birmabrite Brotherhood! 

I believe the RRO **DIGEST** is actually called CSO-digest, for coil
springeyed owners.  the real time list is called RRO, but subscribe to CSO if
you want it in digest form.

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:17:46 -0500
Subject: Re: National driving skills

I guess I need to post this now with all the talk of driving skills and
stuff.  The people here in Madison Wisconsin drive perfectly.  They slow at
intersections, even controlled ones when they have the green light.  I can't
remember anyone here in town NOT using their turn indicator.  If the speed
limit says 35, the maximum that anyone goes is 39, out of concern for others
safety and a touch of fear at receiving a citation from a friendly, polite,
and courteous constable.  When I made a mistake and nearly missed a turn, I
needed to cross 2 lanes of traffic very quickly, I put on my turn signal and
gestured that I needed to cut infront of the person behind and to my left,
the woman smiled large and slowed, as did the tow truck driver with the RV
camper on-back behind her, I made my turn and we all went on our merry way.  

Regarding waves, even the yupped up Explorers wave at me.  I have seen
suit-n-tied types stop in mid-conversation, and  tell the person they were
talking to on their cellular phone to hold on just a minute, and then they
waved to me, saying "Hello there young fella..."  I generally receive highly
enthusiastic waves, but I do remember one wave that was less so.  A gentlmen
in a rather old Chevrolet Malibu, just a hint of rust in the left rear wing,
was obviously upset with his son in the back of the car and was chastising
him, dare I say, he was getting ready to spank to boy, I assume the young son
had uttered a discouraging word and thus was incurring the father's
reprimand.  Well, just as the reprimand was to be administered, the father
saw me, realized that he must break a smile and wave, and mid "reprimand"
grinned and nodded and open up his hand in wave form...briefly, then
continued on his way.  

I love Madison, it is such a wonderful, peaceful, serene, pastoral place.
  Everyone here is so happy.

John.  94 D90.  
(something in the water?  Naw...)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:47:13 +0400
From: mgrove@polarnet.com (Melvin Grove)
Subject: Buying a New Disco

Hi all,
        Ive been reading the digest for about 4 months to see if there was
anything I should be concerned with when purchasing a 1996 Discovery.  Im
picking the car up in April and was wonder if anyone could send me things I
should have looked at before I leave the dealership.  Im picking the car up
in Atlanta GA and will be driving it to Fairbanks AK so I wont have the
luxury of taking the car back to the dealership I purchased it from.  I
would just like to know if there are any common factory production problems
that should be checked and corrected before leaving the dealer.   If people
can send me the items they have had to fix, I'll compile a list of common
problems and send them to the dealership and have them looked at before I
pick it up.  If anyone can help I would appreciate it.

I'm looking forward to being a new LR owner.  I just hope its as good as
you all claim it is.

PS Any other readers out there in AK?

Mel

------------------------------

From: Leland J Roys <roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Def-90 Engine Knock
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 96 8:41:52 PST

Hello,

Thank's for all the feedback on my Def-90 engine knock. Someone asked if
it was a knocking sound or a ping, It definately sounds like a pre-ignition
type engine knock, it does not seem to vary much depending on the engine
being cold or hot, and is worse during acceleration from a stop. 

I will call up the dealer and have them take a look.

I washed and waxed the truck yesterday and it found the red paint under
all the dirt!

Thanks,

Leland Roys
roys@cup.hp.com
1994 Def-90 (Red)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 11:44:28 EST
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: UK motorways & driving standards

David Olley said you could get away with 80 on UK roads.
Round objects (yeh I know, who is round and to what does he object!).
  
I was nicked at 80 ish (indicated).  The officer said lots of crap
about I will lose my license if he does me for over 100 which he thinks
I was doing.  Got really aggressive and settled on claiming I was
going 90 and I should count myself lucky not to be banned.
  
In reality the car I was in was a Fiat Punto 1 litre.  93 MPH when
Top Gear tested it.  It was 45 miles old when he stopped me.  Earlier
it had been doing an indicated 100-105.  So when he was behind me at
an indicated 80-85 I doubt I was even doing 70.
  
He claimed that as I was overtaking the other traffic (which was doing
an indicated 55-60) I was speeding as they where PROBABLY doing 70.
  
He claimed to have to do 120 to catch me (sounds like dangerous
driving to me, should have made a citizens arrest!).  Which sounds
reasonable as I was doing 70 and he was stopped hiding behind a garage.
  
He had no evidence.
  
My solicitor said if I go to court to challenge it I could get a huge
fine 3-6 points and court costs. Official advice was pay up and
keep quiet.
  
I opted for the 3 points and 40 quid fixed penalty.  There is no
justice.  Or perhaps there is - I have been done for speeding on
a motorway when I was on a dual carriageway.  I may get it quashed!
  
The best driving standards are obviously in England, except when I
am in another country.  My driving is so good that it raises the
national average into a higher plane :-)
  
Seriously, I think everybody should join the Institute of Advanced
Motorists. It is very cheap and could save your life as well as
a load on your insurance.
  
Steve Reddock, Xyratex       | Just as he thought he had
Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450     | clinched the interview he was
IBMMAIL (GBXYR96P)           | visited by the ghost of Usenet
Steve_Reddock@uk.xyratex.com | Postings Past.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 17:28:19 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Cooling Systems

There was a recent thread on the UK list about water cooling, and 
Thermostats in particular.
I received a Press Release this morning from a UK company which 
distributes an American made product called Water Wetter (from Red Line 
Synthetic Oil Corporation in Martinez, Ca.
The product is added to coolant and apparently improves cooling 
efficiency while giving corrosion protection.
I quote from the release:
"Testing in the USA has shown up another advantage of Water Wetter which 
is of particular interest to Formula 3 teams and those running veru high 
compression ratio and turbo charged engines. 'Kettling' is the 
phenomenon of vapour bubbles forming around a heat source (eg the 
element of an electric kettle) which then act as an insulator to slow 
down the heating process. In the cylinder head these bubbles act to 
insulate the metal parts which are not fully cooled. Water Wetter gets 
rid of local hot spots which can be one of the reasons for the onset of 
detonation."
They then say that by using the product, igition settings can be 
advanced further, because pinking will not be as likely to occur, and 
additional power will be gained.
Sounds good. Has anybody tried it? Does it work as they say?

-- 
David Olley
.....................................................................................
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

Date: 8 Mar 1996 12:00:13 -0500
From: "Sean McInerney" <smcinerney@mail.nrgn.com>
Subject: Series I 80" Land-Rovers

 Series I 80" Land-Rovers
Fellow LROs- (hope this goes to the right list...if not, correct me)

  I am interested in obtaining a good running 80" SI Land-Rover in the US. 
This has turned out to be no easy feat...especially in the Northeast.  I am
looking for an example in need of little or no chassis and bulkhead repair
with a running motor and a functional gearbox.  I am hoping to find one in
good original condition in need of some mechanical refurbishment....obviously
I would prefer a well looked after example, but that would be rare and $$$$. 
Dents, upholstery rips, and faded paint are fine with me.....absolutely
crunched and rusted out frames and bodywork are not.  As this is purely for
fun, I cannot justify spending tons o' cash on it either....initially, at
least!  8>)
  I figured at least some of you out there could point me in the right
direction....you have always come through for all of may other problems and
queries.  Any helpful information can be repaid with some fine ale....I will
be able to fulfill this promise at either or both the OVLR Birthday Party or
Owl's Head.  Hope to meet some of you there.

Best Regards,

  Sean C. McInerney
  1963 SIIa 88" Basic
  New Haven, CT
  smcinerney@nrgn.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 17:54:20 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: UK motorways & driving standards

Just so no one gets the wrong impression from Steve Reddock, it should 
be pointed out that he was very unlucky in that the patrolman who 
stopped him was acting outside his brief. In court on a specific 
speeding offence, the *opinion* of a policeman is not enough (I 
would think) unless the charge includes *driving without due care* or 
*dangerous driving*. Evidence of measured speed is required.

I would have gone to court on that one, but Steve may get away with it 
because the charge could be technically flawed.

However, the Police do generally err on the side of generosity when it 
comes to straight line speed. Other factors, such as the manner of 
driving do come in to it. I was doing 115mph in a Lancia Spyder a few 
years ago on the M3 when I spotted a patrol at the side of the road. I 
braked heavily to bring the speed down and was then followed and 
stopped. The policeman said he measured my speed at 92mph, but commented 
on the fact that my front bumper was almost scraping the ground at the 
time! He settled for 3 points and a 24 pound fixed fine. He then asked 
what speed I had been doing. I told him, and he gently pointed out that 
I should not exceed 80 (limit is 70) because they would do anybody over 
that speed. He was a really nice guy. The UK police have for some time 
lobbied to have the motorway speed limits increased to 80 mph, because 
they claim that enforcing a lower speed is unrealistic.

Hard luck Steve. From the tone of your posting you are really pissed 
off!
 
David Olley
.....................................................................................
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: Series I 80" Land-Rovers
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 96 13:10:18 EST

>  Series I 80" Land-Rovers
> Fellow LROs- (hope this goes to the right list...if not, correct me)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)]
>   1963 SIIa 88" Basic
>   New Haven, CT
>   smcinerney@nrgn.com

There was a 1950 SI 80" listed in the most recent Hemmings for $800 (or
was it $700?).  Probably a roach.  There was also another listed (maybe
it was even within the same add) that said "wood top", which *could*
even be one of the old and rare wagons, but I surmised it was actually
a botch job instead.  (But, I'm not certain if those old wagons had
wooden tops.....never seen one up close and personal myself.)  It
could be that they guy who listed the add just didn't realize what
he had.....doubtful, though.....this *is* Hemmings.

rgds,
rd/nige

------------------------------

From: William Caloccia <caloccia@OpenMarket.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 14:13:25 -0500
Subject: RE: Discovery FUEL Consumption

PLEASE DO NOT   CROSS POST articles to both LRO AND RRO

if you've got TECH ISSUES with coil-sprung rovers, then send them to RRO
('cause they'll reach the most appropriate audiance, people who know about
these things, people who have experience with these things, etc.:-)

if you've got non tech stuff, then just send it to LRO

and if you've got some of both to say then send one APPROPRIATE message
to EACH list.

	D O    N O T     CROSS  POST  !!!!

Now, in reality, I, personally, don't really care which list you send it to,

   all I do care about is:   that you send it to ONE and only one list !
   all I do care about is    that you send it to ONE and only one list !
   all I do care about is:   that you send it to ONE and only one list !
   all I do care about is    that you send it to ONE and only one list !
   all I do care about is:   that you send it to ONE and only one list !
   all I do care about is    that you send it to ONE and only one list !

I don't want to moderate the list, nor do I want to reject all messages
posted to both lists (easy to do), nor do I want the mail processors
to decide which list a message belongs in (undoubtedly it would screw up),

So I'm pleading with you, the senders, to use your good judgement and
send the approparite material to just ONE list. (and, for that matter,
you, the sender of the reply, can direct your reply to just one list).

I figure better than two thirds of the RRO list also subscribe to the LRO
list, (if they're interested in Landies, and LRO stores, etc.)  Including ME.

	And I don't want to have to slog though the piles of duplicate 
	messages, (selfish of me, isn't it?) and if I find that I am 
	slogging though piles of duplicates then, I can program the mailer
	to TOTALLY reject messages sent to more than one of the LRO lists.

	So don't cross post, and save both me and majordomo some work, ok ?

    Cheers,
        --bill  	caloccia@OpenMarket.com
                 http://www.OpenMarket.com/personal/caloccia/
				  N
   R  1  3  2wd  H		  D
   +--|--|   o   |             L  3
      2  4  4wd  L             |  2
   '63 SIIa RHD 88"            H  1
      793-PTA            '90 RR County

	------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, the updated description of the list (on the WEB), and
via Majordomo is now installed:

	http://WWW.Land-Rover.Team.Net/~majordom/lr/
	http://www.openmarket.com/personal/caloccia/lr/

The intro to the LRO list will be updated with similar info, if you are
not a Web-Head then write to Majordomo

	info land-rover-owner
	info rro

Two sections describing LRO and RRO read as follows:

land-rover-owner

        This is also known as the real-time list, as every message sent is
        attempted to be delivered in a timely fashion. With the volume of
        mail, this is annoying to some, as it can cause many new-mail
        interruptions during the work day.

      All Land Rover Owners gather here to swap stories and off-road tall-tales.
      The Land Rover Owner list tends to have a large number Series owners,
      mostly from North America (75%), who invariably migrate from tall-tales
      to to discussing mechanical matters regarding their legacy leaf-sprung
      Land Rovers. 

      So if you like: 
            grease under your finger nails 
            wimpy heaters 
            warm beer 
            pop-rivits (they're the only fastener you stock) 
            dents (you think they add character) 
      you can't recall when 
            no work needed to be done to your motor 
            you didn't have scraped knuckles 
      you need to know how to: 
            earn a Lug Nut Award 
      Then you can't go wrong with the Land Rover Owner list. 

      If the volume of traffic is a problem, the interruptions are bothersome, 
      or you prefer less frequent mail then subscribe to lro-digest

The Range Rover Owner & Coil Sprung Owner Mailing List/Digest

Given the mechanical advances over a few decades, and the standard of fittings
expected in vehicles today, a number of advances have been made on the tried
and true Land Rover. From the production of the first Range Rover in 1970,
to the last of the Classic Range Rovers in February of 1996, the design of
Range Rover came to influence tne next major family of 90", 110" & 127" Land
Rovers (Defenders), as well the Discovery and the new Range Rover. 

Those first coil-sprung, live-axle, full-time four wheel drive, Range Rovers
set the standard for all to follow, both in the then radical body design, and
in the absolute capability of the vehicle. 

rro (Range Rover Owner) 

   If you want to inquire about 

      fuel injection 
      engine management computer error codes 
      the optional Discovery rear speaker fountain option 
      how to wire up a non-dealer CD changer 
      front/rear receiver mounted winch options 
      how to get a leak-free US spec. Defender canvas top, 

    Then you ought to join the rro (Range Rover Owner) list or the digest
    version,

cso-digest (Coil-Sprung Owner Digest). 

If you find both the Land Rover Owner and Range Rover Owner lists irrestible,
join both, but PLEASE try to avoid posting the same message to both lro and
rro lists, as there is a significant number of people who subscribe to both. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 14:19:01 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: A few Answers

Dear All,
        A few inputs from questions on today's list.
Val Natarajan asked about registering his imported LR. The grace period can
exist for vehicle being imported, BUT you have to show proof that you owned
and were the registee in that previous place. Like the guy who had the
Fiat, he owned and drove it before in Turkey I think he said, so he had
some time to get it figured out. They treat that like moving from state to
state, with a few extra forms. The problem you'll face is that having
bought the vehicle, but never owned or registered it before, you don't
appear anywhere on the paperwork, just in a bill of sale. You will have to
get plates for it before you drive it off the docks. Well, the dock guys
won't care, but the first NY State Trooper will! I've done it and have the
tickets to prove it. This was one of the first reasons why I bought a car
carrier!!!
        Your state may have provisions for a Transport Tag. That is how I
got around it before I bought the ramp truck. You have to show proof of
insurance, pay a small fee, then they will issue you a paper transport
plate, that will let you get the vehicle from the docks to your home. It
only works for the most direct route from point A to point B. The fee in
Maine is 10 bucks. The grace period doesn't apply to you, so if you run on
UK plates it is a risk that might work, but it isn't really legal. Hope
this helps.
        On another note. Fitting RR axle to a series vehicle is possible,
just a bit of cutting, welding and lining things up, I've done it. If you
use the RR axles, and had standard axles before, not Sals, then the
driveshafts stay the same. If you are running a 2.25 with 4 spped box, I
suggest you change the diffs. Your series IIA or III diffs bolt right into
the RR axles.  The 3.54 are like driving with the overdrive in all the
time, not good for off road. Best thing to do is use the rear mounted track
arm from the RR with the stering stabilizer, then either use a SIII 4.7
diff, or put your ring and pinion into the RR housing. That way you can use
the rear mounted steering stabilizer. You need the housing with the two
hols and flat spot on the bottom. The turning radius is decreased, I never
actaully measured our 109, but we did test a leaf sprung 88 against a coil
88, with RR axles, and the turning radius was 8 feet smaller, in a 180
degrees radius. Both vehicles were the same, tire size etc. The big change
in the systems is going to be the brakes. The RR's have dual feed front
calipers, reducing valves for the rear brakes, etc. If you actually go for
this conversion, email me diretly, and I'll give you the scoop on how to
make RR 4 wheel discs work in a LR.
        Hey, BTW, When I advertised on the digest, I got like 6 nasty
emails telling me off, so I quit it, and now I just give tech advice and my
opinions. What is with Renewed Traditions? Hope you gave him the same
treatment.

        See ya!

Mike Smith, East Coast Rover Co.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:58:50 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: A few Answers

Mike Smith writes:
>         Hey, BTW, When I advertised on the digest, I got like 6 nasty
> emails telling me off, so I quit it, and now I just give tech advice and my
> opinions. What is with Renewed Traditions? Hope you gave him the same
> treatment.
-
I was under the impression that *limited* advertising was ok. Like 
what you did for the 3.54 diffs (wish I had the $$ for them) or an 
occasional vehicle for sale. Limited meaning a very few *brief* 
postings a month. 
Alternatively, you could make  your own e-mail address list and 
send your posting to people on that instead of the LRO list, AS LONG AS IT'S 
ONLY TO PEOPLE WHO SPECIFICALLY ASK TO BE ON IT. We are all aware of 
your existence now so if anyone wants notice they can let you know.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 21:26:52 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Bad drivers

Mike Loiodice wrote about Turkey:
>The other good trick was the "truck races" on the E-5 in the Tarsus Mts. The
>highway was two lanes, with hairpin turns, steep inclines, sharp dropoffs
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>to face with that lunacy.
>Cheers
>Mike

Actually I quite enjoyed driving in Turkey, but that was in the old days 
when I was still young and stupid. Now I am older, and I own a Series I - 
what does that indicate, I wonder? Anyway, one hard and fast rule I learned 
very fast in Turkey was that if a truck or bus going the other way decides 
to pass on a two-lane highway, you just casually swing over to the hard 
shoulder, whether there is one or not.

Having driven on five continents so far - two more to go - I would like to 
say that I am always impressed with the courtesy and lack of aggression in 
the UK, and the discipline in many parts of the USA. Needless to say, the 
bigger and the more crowded the city, the more aggressive the driving. Also 
needless to say, Land-Rover drivers, and especially Series drivers, and 
particularly Series I drivers, are not only the best, but also the nicest. 
At least they have the biggest smiles on their faces.
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 08 Mar 96 15:33:52 EST
Subject: Re: Land Rover Rally in CO?

T.F.Mills wrote:
>>Aug. 8-14 around Crested Butte, CO.  Nordic Inn in Crested Butte will be 
rally HQ.  Call 1-800-383-5886 for more info as it develops.<<

Alan Pollard wrote:
>>Land Rover rallys in Colorado are usually sponsored by or have lots of
involvment by the Solihull Society, Colorado's premier Land Rover club
(www.du.edu/~tomills/solisoc.html).  The contact person is Greg Chernushin at
(800) 383-5886. He should know.  This is his law office number so say it's
regarding Land Rovers and you will get priority treatment.<<

Thanks for the information.

 BTW, I talked to Greg and he said that the dates were going to be the Aug
8-12th, not 14th. 

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

!^NavFont02F032A0003HJrC6FD

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 08-Mar-1996

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 15:39:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Re: A few Answers

All,

>         Your state may have provisions for a Transport Tag. That is how I
> got around it before I bought the ramp truck. You have to show proof of
> insurance, pay a small fee, then they will issue you a paper transport
> plate, that will let you get the vehicle from the docks to your home. It
> only works for the most direct route from point A to point B. The fee in

    One further caveat on this: if you live in a state where they have
    vehicle inspections, just having the temporary transport tag does
    *not* relieve you of the responsibility of having a valid inspection
    sticker.  Or so the nice Mr. VA State Trooper explained to me...  If
    you have VA tags (even 3-day ones) you must have it inspected if you
    want to drive it on the road.  Period.

    Fortunately in this case, he believed my (absolutely true) story
    that the DMV lady had assured me that I did not need an inspection
    and let me off without a ticket.  But he wouldn't let me drive it an
    inch farther.  And when I finally got a towtruck to hook me up for
    the rest of the 100 mile trip, Mr. State Trooper was waiting a few
    miles down the road just to make sure...

    Duncan, thinking maybe the fact that I hadn't put the bumpers or
    headlights back in for the day trip was not such a good idea after
    all, heh heh heh...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 14:03:06 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Triple TV Sighting

So I was watching Comedy Central whilst mucking with computer bits.  

First, there was "Kickin' Aspen", a not too funny comedy show from Aspen 
Colorado, wherein the host made a joke about seeing a bumper sticker 
saying something like "My folks went to Aspen and all I got was this 
stupid Land Rover".  (I assume he means a plushmobile?)  I must admit I 
wasn't paying too much attention before I heard the words "Land Rover".  

Then they cut to commercial, and it was the Fosters commercial with the 
back end of a 109" yanking on a rope as the definition of "Dentist".

Then, the next commercial was the Amex one with Abercrombie & Kent(?), 
the adventure travel company, featuring a couple of D110's(?).  

Was the best part of the show, fer sure.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 14:05:01 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Play the Rover Game

Thought I'd pass on a little game my family has developed over the last 
few years.  You see, we don't always drive around in Land Rovers 
(although lately, my 109" is the only reliable car in the family!).  A 
lot of times, we're in my girlfriend's Mazda 323, or my folks' Ford 
escort wagon, or one of Stan's many cars, or whatever.  So waving doesn't 
always make much sense.  

So here's what we do.  Whenever someone spots a LR product, they yell out 
"Disco", "Range Rover", "Defender", or "Rover".  First one to spot it 
gets valuable bonus points.  Pretty much everyone's into it, and even 
Rachel has gotten over the "I wish you got that excited when you saw me" 
syndrome.

Behind my folks house is an alley which is were everyone's garages/yards 
open onto.  A couple houses down the alley, the family bought a white 
Disco.  My mom spotted this, and told me about it (end of last year).  
She of course, promptly went out and met the people.  The other day, I 
was there and saw them drive by.  The lady who owned it came out and 
introduced herself, and commented on us both owning Land Rovers, and that 
my mom had told her all about mine.  Unfortunately, I had to tell her 
that my mom passed away in January.  

So when you're driving down the street, and you see a LR product, by all 
means wave.  If, however, you're in your other car, or a friend's car, go 
ahead and call it out, to earn your bonus points.  And think of my 
lunatic mother, going out to meet the neighbor with the new Land Rover, 
and to tell them about her sons with all the old Land Rovers. 

Beacuse, to be honest, the vehicles don't mean diddly.  To be perfectly 
honest, there are plenty of vehicles that are just as good, or better 
than Land Rovers, perhaps in other ways, but still, a Land Rover is just 
a car.  What's important is the people you meet.  99.9999% of lro's are 
good folk.  We're odd, wacky, rich, poor, technical, non-technical, 
nerdy, macho, macha, beer-drinking, tee-totalling, large, small, funny, 
boring, people.  That's what it's all about.  Land Rovers are just an 
excuse and a means to get together and meet each other.  Same as coins, 
computers, button collections, businesses, beer, horses, etc.

btw, some "plushpeople" here may never go off-highway.  So what?  They're 
interested enough to sign up for this craziness.  Some series people 
never go off-highway too.  Heck, a lot of series people can't even drive 
down the road, let alone drive off-road.  So what?  

Anyway, I just wanted to say, I love you all, series or newer, on or 
off-highway.  Heck, I even love Taylor, bless his confused little heart.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: 08 Mar 96 17:15:46 EST
From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: Vel's gearbox et al

Vel , writes re gearbox jumping out of third gear, this is not a unique ser 3
problem and is not related to the synchro, the second and third gears on the
mainshaft of ALL series 1,2, and 3 gearboxes rotate on a plain bronze bush,
whatever gear you drive in, one or both gears rotate on th ebearing and wear it
away. As the clearance increases the gear can then move on the bearing and can
then come away from the mainshaft first gear which is used to fix the gear to
the mainshaft to create drive.
Once the sequence starts it is self propogating, the movement out of gear also
wears away the teeth that locate the gears together, making it easier for it to
disengage, the easier it disengages the more it wears and the easier it
disengages, ad infinitum.
  Solution FIX IT," at the very least"   you will ned a second/third gear
mainshaft bush, locking ring and a couple of gaskets,  and  a couple of hours to
do the job if the gearbox is clean on the bench. For a long trip you may want to
go a bit further and fit some other bearings.
 If you buy a 200 quid RECONDITIONED unit, chances are that all that has been
done is what I have described. A thirty quid parts job.
  
  I live  near  Buffalo New York and am driving my 109 on British plates, the
customs say I can use it for a year as a non resident, a resident must licence
the vehicle in the State within thirty days.
 If you are in Buffalo give me a call. If you  remove and clean the gearbox, and
bring the parts from the UK where they are considerably cheaper I will rebuild
the box for you for a large bottle of HP brown sauce !! .  I do have a few parts
that I brought from blighty.

 Regards  Bill Leacock   Limey in exile

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:38:01 -0600 (CST)
From: David Place <dplace@SIRNet.mb.ca>
Subject: Re: Unstable idle

For what it is worth, I had an unstable idle as well and it went away 
when I changed the wire that goes to the dist. from the coil and the very 
thin wire inside the dist. body.  I noticed on mine that there were only 
a few strands of the wire actually still connected and it was about a 
number 20 instead of perhaps an 18 or 16 gauge wire.  I also replaced the 
coil because I noticed that the tower was corroded.  I put a daub of 
sicone sealant on the slip on connectors as well and it went away.  Dave 
VE4PN

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: exhaust snorkels
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 96 18:27:22 EST

So's I tried something last night I haven't done for 20 years.....towed
sleds behind a Rover.  Live near lots of good dirt roads, and when it
snows people stay home, leaving the driving to us.  Stretched in series
on ropes of 10-15 feet, we slung along at speed with the glorious sight
of axle casings and leaf springs in the foreground.  Honestly, folks, 
I haven't laughed that hard in two weeks.  Only one problem, though....
unspent hydrocarbons.  None of us, myself included, could handle more
than five or ten minutes at a time before the headaches set in.  OK, 
so maybe I could use a new set of plugs, regap the points, reset the 
timing, adjust the valves, and a leaner carb, but I'm looking for a 
quicker fix.

Anyone ever hear of a retro-inverso snorkel for the exhaust?

Watch this space,
rd/nige

------------------------------

From: Rod Steele <rsteele@sparky.transdata.ca>
Subject: Re:  Series I 80 inch
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 18:37:29 -0500

I have an old 80 in I am might be selling in the spring, but judging by =
your request, I will probably be asking too much for it, and it needs a =
lot of the kind of work you dont want to do.  But if still interested =
let me know.

Also, I found another 80 in locally (Ontario), slightly more recent, and =
a relatively good runner.  I took some photos, if interested let me know =
and I'll send some along with a contact nos.

Hi and top of the day to the rest of you.

------------------------------

From: rmodica@east.pima.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 16:40:50 MST
Subject: Off to Italy

I'm unsubscribing for a bit due to a trip to Italy beginning tomorrow.  I
certainly hope that when I re-subscribe all the flame wars over what a Land
Rover is or isn't will have abated.  My SII 109 is a plushmobile compared to my
SI 80 and the Disco is a little nicer than my 109, but the're all Land Rovers.
I've been driving (and working on) my Land Rovers since 1975 and all this
nonsense about roughmobiles and plushmobiles is a bit childish.  A simple
statement concerning the subject matter and the use of the delete key could go
a long way to return us to the list of yesteryear. 

 Peace and ciao.

Rob Modica	'51 SI 80"	'60 SII 109" SW Safari
Tucson AZ	'94 Disco 5-spd  Casper
 

------------------------------

From: rmodica@east.pima.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 16:41:43 MST
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe lro-digest

------------------------------

From: Rod Steele <rsteele@sparky.transdata.ca>
Subject: 107 in for sale
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 18:47:08 -0500

for anyone interested, I found a 107 inch sitting in a scrapyard, in =
relatively good nick.  Apparently runs, but brakes need work.  I took =
photos and got a phone number.  Drop me a line if interested.  The scrap =
yard is in Ontario.

I have three restoration projects on the go, divorce would be imminent =
if I took on this one as well!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 18:58:56 -0600 (CST)
From: Lorri Paustian <lorri@sound.net>
Subject: Re:  Def-90 knocking

>I have a question about engine knocking from my 1994 Defender-90. I have
>noticed lately that there is fairly loud engine knocking during acceleration
>(1st and 2nd gear from stoplights etc.). I cannot remember if it always did
>this and I just noticed it, or if it is new. I tried high octane gas and 
>there was no change.

>For other Defender-90, DISCO owners, is this normal? or does my truck
>have a problem?

I had what sounds to be a similar problem with my 95 Discovery a few months
after I bought it.  I took back to the dealer and believe they replaced the
Cam Shaft.  Thought I heard one of the mechanics mention a problem with
them.  They went ahead and replaced the water pump at the time.  In fact,
the part was back-ordered at the time.  The fan on our new D90 is knocking
against the pulley and makes a knocking noise also.

Lorri Paustian, Flatland Rover Society
Lenexa, Kansas
'95 Conistan Green Discovery
'95 Arles Blue D90 SW

------------------------------

From: Rod Steele <rsteele@sparky.transdata.ca>
Subject: testing photo scan - ignore please
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 20:24:56 -0500

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 20:30:44 -0500 (EST)
From: "Paul O'Donnell" <paulod@mail.erols.com>
Subject: Re: why North Carolina?

At 01:38 AM 3/8/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Does anybody know the whys, wherefores, etc. of BMW and Mercedes setting 
>up shop in North Carolina?  Why did they pick that location?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)]
>tomills@du.edu                               University of Denver Library
>http://www.du.edu/~tomills                          Denver  CO 80208  USA
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Mercedes-Benz International (the name of the US Subsidiary) is building
a plant in Vance, Alabama to produce a new SUV for world-wide sales.
Planning volume is for approx. 60,000 AAV's ( All Activity Vehicle) a year
with about 30,000 staying in the US market.
Bmw's plant in South Carolina is building the new Z3 roadster, and also 3
series 
cars.
Both European manufacturers are moving production away from Germany to
reduce their production costs, insulate themselves somewhat from Dollar/D-mark
fluctuations, and to have a US production presence in the event of
legislation with a protectionist slant.
There are no current plans to produce any Land Rover products in the US,
even though  I think that we could probably build them better.

Regards, 
Paul-91 Range Rover>

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 20:33:05 -0500
Subject: Re: 107 in for sale

I don't need another restoration project ( or just plain project) but:
Where is it in Ontario, and what's the phone number, etc.
Thanks

David Cockey
Rochester, MI.

------------------------------

From: smitha@mail.CandW.lc
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 22:41:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Re[2]: National driving habits

On Fri, 8 Mar 1996, "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU> wrote:
>> right of way, that he had strapped a railway sleeper (what's that in the US, 

a 
>> crosstie?) 
>-
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                
> Four wheel drive allows you to get
> stuck in places even more inaccessible.
And e-mail leaves you with this kind of response>
>> crosstie?) 
>-
>Sounds like.

------------------------------

Date: 	Fri, 08 Mar 1996 19:32:47 -0800
From: cyoungso@direct.ca (Chris Youngson)
Subject: Re: Range Rover EFI and mileage

I just picked up the latest copy of "Car Mechanics" magazine. 
My third favorite magazine. They have a section called " Electronic
Diagnostics". This month the feature is the Lucas 4CU engine management
system for the Range Rover. Is this the system used for Discos as well?
This is a very good magazine for the serious DIY'er.
It has pictures of all the parts locations, technical specs, and a schematic
diagram of the system. They talk about troubleshooting, maintenence,
common faults, etc.  If anyone is interested I could mail out copies or
maybe post scans here or on a WWW page.

73, Chris

------------------------------

From: HMEdwards@aol.com
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 22:37:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Re[3]: National driving habits

Your question of driving in Manila brings back many memories.  I spent 2 1/2
years at Clark Air Base and drove down to and through Manila 20 or more
times.  I have never come closer to a mob mood among all drivers involved.
 The only rule I could ever ascertain was there were not any.  A two lane
road would magically expand to 6 and a fourlane could hold 10 - 12 abreast!
 Even the Rabbit buses in Manila would take extra care, and they ruled the
roads out in the countryside.  You would have to plan a mile ahead to make
you turn off and even then it would not necessarily be the correct one.  I
wish I had owned my Series III back then, the speed would not have been
available but the size would have helped greatly.

Harry Edwards
72 Series III
Las Vegas

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 19:48:18 -0700
From: slade@sisna.com (Michael Slade)
Subject: Re: Play the Rover Game

Roger writes:

>So when you're driving down the street, and you see a LR product, by all
>means wave.  If, however, you're in your other car, or a friend's car, go
>ahead and call it out, to earn your bonus points.

Actually my wife and I (and now many of our friends/family) play a game
very similar to yours.

Remember playing 'Slug Bug' as a kid?  Well, we play 'Slug-Rover'.  We
don't have a points system, but we're discussing it as of now!

Michael Slade
IIa 109 SW 1970
slade@sisna.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 23:44:12 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: National driving skills

>I love Madison, it is such a wonderful, peaceful, serene, pastoral place.
>  Everyone here is so happy.
-

We now take you back to our regular world, already in progress...

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 20:57:54 -0700
From: slade@sisna.com (Michael Slade)
Subject: Re: Talk: Nissan Patrol LR Clone???

John writes:
>I have seen the Patrol up close in the Philippines.  It is a very nice, well
>made vehicle and wish that they sold it here.  But I don't believe it is a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>John Maravilla
>'95 Disco

The Patrol you saw is the new version.  Modern and very (ahem) 'plush'.

I saw today in Portland, Oregon a nice Patrol which is the old style.  It
was the third Patrol I've ever seen in person.

It is indeed a LR ripoff, complete with mid-body bulge, inset rear tailgate
(not full width), fresh air vents beneath windsheild (3 of em), inset
headlights, etc...

I stopped and placed my biz. card with a quick note on his windshield, and
hope he calls.

The one previous to this I saw in a scrap yard in SLC, Utah.  It was tucked
back in amongst 2 other 88's, and at first glance I thought it was indeed a
LR.  Seeing them next to each other the fact that it is a LR derivative is
clearly evident.  It took me a minute to figure out what it was, as the
badging was missing.

One guy I met in college had one at his parents home.  The PO to him had
replaced the entire running gear and engine with GM, as genuine Nissan
parts for it were impossible to find (according to him).  He was in the
process of trying to rebuild it to original spec and since I had a LR (88
then) he thought I might have a line on hard to fine parts.

The first Patrol I ever saw was in South Korea in 1989.  It was the new
style and I thought it was a Pathfinder when I first saw it.  I too wished
(at the time being LR naieve) that they were sold in the U.S.  I've since
converted (WHEW).

Michael Slade
IIa 109 SW 1970
slade@sisna.com

------------------------------

From: CrankIt@aol.com
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 00:43:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Cooling Systems

In a message dated 96-03-08 13:37:04 EST, newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley
at New Concept) writes:

>Testing in the USA has shown up another advantage of Water Wetter which 
>is of particular interest to Formula 3 teams and those running veru high 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
>additional power will be gained.
>Sounds good. Has anybody tried it? Does it work as they say?

I've been using Water Wetter (Redline) in three different vehicles and yes it
does drop the engine water temp 5 - 10 degrees.  I'm not sure I completely
understand how but it does work.

Gene

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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