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From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Oz beer etc
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 22:32:47 +1030 (CDT)

 Alan R responds:

> rather the LR dentistry.....8*)

> Speak for yourself, O kangaroo-chasing one. In the Northern climes, one drinks 
> Guinness as it can be used as a substitute for 90wt in an emergency, and then 
> be drunk with no loss of flavour or carbonation after being replaced.

You know I never thought of that, with Coopers the seds would settle out 
and it just wouldnt be the same.   Hmm maybe I need to carry some cans of 
G in the landy :-)

> Barleywine, now THAT's the proper tipple - 14%ABV and a smoothness that flows 
> like honey.

Well after the first couple of glasses I'm sure it does.
Hmm maybe the oily wadders should keep a bottle of Grappa in the car, this 
stuff smells like old kero, so it wouldnt be out of place :-), but after the 
first couple of glasses.....

Hey I gotta go before tomorrow is today

cheers

-- 

  Daryl

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 07:51:20 PST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Waving and frost heaves

Waving to (all) Birmabright lumps: This is no time to take unnecessary risks
- tomorrow I buy four of those foam hands that are on springs and "wave"
(they should be positively frantic on the combination of Series III
suspension and Maine frost heave!)....snip....

Ok. I saw this when I was in NH a few weeks ago. What exactly is a "frost 
heave"?

Dave "Mr. Curious" B.

------------------------------

From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@mail.biddeford.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 07:51:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Bens or VW diesel conversions???

> In the AW is an AD for a Mercedes 300D engine with adapter. 
>    This is the question:  Has anyone driven this conversion? & how good is 
> this conversion really?  

I would also like to hear of anyone's experiences or ideas about this.  I 
had considered the M/B 5-cyl turbo diesel for a conversion at one point 
before I found something else for my project, but still think it would be a 
good option.  I was particularly intrigued that this engine uses a ZF 
transmission, but had not gotten as far as determining the similarities to 
the LR/RR units.  Any thoughts?

Rgds,
Ron Franklin
109 diesel project

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

------------------------------

From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@mail.biddeford.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 07:51:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Swamp Cooler

. A "swamp" cooler, for those of you whoaren't
> familiar with the term, is simply an evaporative cooler. The old airflow over
> cool water trick.

Very interesting.  Have you any details?  Is Legionaire's disease a 
problem?

Ron Franklin, (thinking of the occasional heat wave we are so unprepared for 
here, and getting ready for global warming.)

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Split Not for me
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 07:52:00 EST

Alan Richer put it very eloquently, if you don't want to read it delete. Now 
theres just more to delete from more lists and more mail to annoy corporate 
sysops for those of us who read at the office (In our own coffee breaks, of 
course)

Trevor "But, boss, this is important tech info" Easton

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Clutch and Freewheel Probs
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 08:05:00 EST

TARC member John Train has the following problems, suggested solutions 
please:-
1. Warn Hubs that have been stripped cleaned, lubricated (lightly) and 
refitted are very hard to lock or unlock. What is torque value for bolts? 
Can hub run out or bearing play affect them?
2. Clutch on SIIA new master and slave cylinders, pipes and hoses. Requires 
pumping to get clutch to release and difficult to feel pedal free play. 
Hints please.

Trevor Easton

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 08:15:34 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: The Last Classic

According to AUTOCAR, the last Range Rover Classic, the 317,615th made,
rolled of the production line on 15 February.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover (a Classic)
Newport New Hampshire
603-863-7883

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 08:32:59 PST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Clutch and Freewheel Probs

TARC member John Train has the following problems, suggested solutions 
please:-
1. Warn Hubs that have been stripped cleaned, lubricated (lightly) and 
refitted are very hard to lock or unlock. What is torque value for bolts? 
Can hub run out or bearing play affect them?

Hi Trevor.
Don't remeber the torque setting but it shouldn't affect the locking/unlocking. 
I just redid mine to try to stop a leak, (ha). I torqued 'em to the same spec as
the hub driving flange bolts, since that's pretty much what they are. I rebuilt 
the swivel balls a few months ago, and ever since I've needed pliers to lock the
left hub. When I took it apart I looked at the workings to try to figure out 
why. It seems that the teeth that lock the two halves of the hub together are 
made in such a way that they can mesh together very easily. However is they are 
bolted together in the wrong position then the teeth can rub when they engage, 
or not engage at all, making it difficult or impossible to engage the hubs, 
respectively. I had this problem when reassembling them the second time (!) and 
found it helpful to lock the hub and then install it. Since the hub is locked 
the teeth are already engaged, making it impossible for them to be too far from 
the right position.  Once it's bolted down you don't have to worry about it. I 
figured this out AFTER sealing everything up so when I took it apart again to do
it properly I messed up my gasketing job, and now they still leak. Ugh.

Have fun!
Dave "Don't know about your clutch" B.

2. Clutch on SIIA new master and slave cylinders, pipes and hoses. Requires 
pumping to get clutch to release and difficult to feel pedal free play. 
Hints please.

Trevor Easton

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: VW/ Porche Conversions
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 08:50:00 EST

To add to the bandwidth, CarDoctors note on VW diesel conversions made me 
think about VW/Porche petrol conversions. With a suitable adaptor the air 
cooled flat four or six could be made to fit into the LR engine bay (Chain 
or Gear offset). I recall from my VW days that it had adequate low end 
torque and the weight saving could be converted into gas mileage, winches, 
etc. No antifreeze to worry about, lots of hot air for heating, magnesium 
crankcase, aluminium heads, lots of spares available etc.
(just kidding, or am I?)

Trevor "Mad innovations 'R' Us" Easton

------------------------------

Date: 01 Mar 96 08:49:13 EST
From: Lars Rosenmeier <100670.3705@compuserve.com>
Subject: Tired of reading: LIST SPLITTING

Hi all
I am fed up with this discussion about LIST SPLITTING so i am going to
unsubscribe the digest. I hope to be back some day  when the WAR is over!
Yours
Lars

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 07:58:15 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: driving out the plushies

TeriAnn writes:

> Upon reading Bills  email about splitting the list this morning I put together
>  a boiler plate letter and have been forwarding it to Disco & RR posters.  So
-
Yep, I got it regarding a reply I made to a posting about safety 
devices and driving aware. I made the "mistake" of leaving the 
word "Disco" (or was the offending word "SUV") in the subject 
header. I found it rather insulting actually, but maybe I'm thin skinned.
TeriAnn, I'd suggest that as the list police you post a list of the 
words that will generate your boilerplate. 

I guess I'll subscribe to both lists, even though I only own Series 
Land Rovers. I hope that my advice on turbos (not many of those on 
Series vehicles) and welding have been helpful. But any owners of 
late model Land Rovers (read Discovery & Range Rover) should post
questions related to those topics here also. If I'm short on time, 
the RRO list will be the one I skip. Oh what a world we live in.

Dixon, Sandy and other event organizers:
Will the various model Land Rover products be allowed to intermix at 
the events?

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 09:03:47 PST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: The ant hijack

To...snip.... a locked and 
unoccupied Defender cranked up and rammed the first thing it encountered. 
...snip... the ants did provide a circuit to 
the starter motor .....snip

Now, in terms of voltage, this is believeable, but that starter motor draws a 
lot of "ants".

Dave "where's my antmeter" B.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 14:12:18 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Waving and frost heaves

>Ok. I saw this when I was in NH a few weeks ago. What exactly is a "frost
>heave"?
>Dave "Mr. Curious" B.

Good question,Dave.Sounds a bit like throwing up because the beer's too
cold.
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer <Alan_Richer.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date:  1 Mar 96  9:17:45 EST
Subject: Re: The ant hijack

>Now, in terms of voltage, this is believeable, but that starter motor draws a 
>lot of "ants".

First of all, that is an absolutely horrid pun.
Secondly, these newfangled things have a gadget called a "Starter relay" that 
makes the starter go with only a little current through the keylock. With this 
rig, it would take only an ant or three to do the job..... with the lack of an 
internal skeleton, ants are pretty juicy inside and are moderately good 
conductors.

Or even just a few uncles...

>Dave "where's my antmeter" B.

Jokes like this are antipathy to me.... -ajr

 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 06:34:06 -0800
From: russ burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: lists

Why not split it like
landrover chat (for all the beer and stupid comments)
landrover technical 
landrover flame of the week

Russ Burns
91 r-rover
94 D-90
95 D-90 sw
Russ Burns
cisco/Ford
313-317-0451

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 09:37:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Flimsy Discos 

humour mode on...

On Thu, 29 Feb 1996 SACME@aol.com wrote:

> about what "tough" really means.   I can't think of anything in the front end
> of my Series III that could be termed a deliberate "crumple" zone that would
> modulate the cars and my deceleration in a front-ender.  Couple that with no

	Most utility poles are designed to break at the bottom, and just
	about all modern cars have crumple zones.  That your Series III
	doesn't have a crumple zone doesn't matter.  You make use of 
	theirs...  :-)  Think of it as the car designers nod to older
	vehicles.  They have designed their modern offerings (burnt?)
	to collapse, sacrificing themselves, rather that cause damage to 
	an older, potentially rarer vehicle.  I feel that this is very
	noble of them, and gives me the assurance to drive my Series IIA
	vehicles all the more (albeit, the 88 without the log splitter
	mounted up front...)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 09:46:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: not Snubbed by a Plushmobile

On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Jeff Smith wrote:

> On EuroMoto Motorcycle list the current sysop designed and made T-shirts
> with the list address and the names of all european marques. They are
> internationally recognized amongst the internet/motorcycle enthusiasts. He
	
	British cars mailing list (SOL) has made t-shirts, pins and the like
 	and made available to list members.  If I recall correctly, a
	design was put forward, basically everyone agreed, so the file was
	given to a reputable firm that makes t-shirts, mugs, pins etc,
	and everyone orders from there.  (BTW, The BC ml is a union jack
	with crossed spanner & con rod and the letters SOL across it)

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 09:07:30 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: diesel power

Matthew Loxton writes:

Snip
> The thought of adding the complication of a turbo goes against my grain, but 
 there you are, take it or lump it.>
You're right there. Any addtional complication could make you're 
off-roading more dicey. You pays your money and takes your choice. 

> The thing that really worries me is that 
 turbo seems fine for open road, but looks like it might be a right bastard in 
 off-road work. Surely there is lag between wellie down and engine 
response?>
Actually a lag between wellie down and boost. You still get your 
non-boosted engine response. Which actually may be better for 
off-road work.

> Also in game reserves where one is continually stopping and shutting down to 
 watch something, wouldn't the turbo pack up after a while.>
See my post about the Turbo life oiler.

> Lastly, if the turbo goes completely, is the engine just an ordinary 2.5L 
 again or is it now a lump of ballast weight?>
The turbo, if maintained properly (Turbo oiler, good air filter) 
should give *long*service. If it does ahve a catastrophic failure 
will likely take out your engine. But, again, if maintained properly, 
that isn't too likely. I have seen engines throw a piece out the 
exhaust which takes out the turbo which in turn finishes off the 
engine.
 
> I ask all these odd questions because I have ordered a 1982 Rangie with Iveco 
Supprised this post was allowed on the list. Oops, sorry, couldn't 
resist. ;-)

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 01 Mar 96 10:11:49 EST
Subject: Re: Clutch and Freewheel Probs

>> 1. Warn Hubs that have been stripped cleaned, lubricated (lightly) and 
refitted are very hard to lock or unlock. What is torque value for bolts? 
Can hub run out or bearing play affect them?<<

>>Don't remeber the torque setting but it shouldn't affect the
locking/unlocking. 
I just redid mine to try to stop a leak, (ha). <<

I don't know which Warn hubs you have, but I have a set of the deluxe hubs. I
finally solved the leaking problem by putting grease around the selector disk.
You need to fully disassemble the hub, and remove the circlip that holds the
selector to the cap. Then place the grease around the track and reassemble. It
makes it a little more difficult to turn when it is below freezing, but I
haven't had them leak at all. I imagine the regular Warn hubs are similar.

This might also help make the hubs easier to lock and unlock.

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 01-Mar-1996

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 09:17:26 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Jerry cans 

> The jerry can I ordered Monday came today. 
Mine came yesterday

>Good& bad news
Same here.

> Good: no rust,
Yep

Bad news, mine was dented somewhat. Not real bad, but not what I'd 
call only "minor surface flaws such as dirt, slight scratches or 
slight rust" as the ad says. But, then again, what do you expect for 
$15.
It did give me an idea though. My brother sells East German and 
Russian surplus military equipment. Think I'll see if he can get a 
supply of these cans.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 10:23:50 PST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Burleith LRC activities...

 Burleith LRC rides again... ugh.

Last Sunday Ron O'day and myself went for a little off-road trek. We found some 
trails near one of the local waterways and, nudged our way in. We were both 
driving early 70's pastel green SIII's making for quite a pretty sight (IMO). We
tooled around the various trails for a while, clearing large branches out of the
way, and forging a path or two where there was none. I was tempted to clean up 
the mess of beer containers left by generations of drunk teenagers, but decided 
against it. Eventually I had to run over them so maybe it would have been a good
idea, but no flat tires so whatever. About half way through the trails we 
happened upon some old derelict Land-Rovers and scavenged all the good parts off
of them. Ha ha just kidding, but we did find an old Corvair and an Opel Kadett 
rusting away. I got a few pices that will make some interesting furniture some 
day. We drove to the "end of the road" and turned around. Coming back was great 
since we *sort of* knew the way. I was actually able to drive at waht might be 
considered "overkill" speed for part of the way. Not bad, I only hit one tree. 
Didn't even break anything. I did manage to scratch some of the new paint to 
make it match the old... After finishing up the trails and seeing the tree that 
Ron slid into on his previous excursion through same area (it was the snow's 
fault) we decided to take one truck down near the water for a little mud 
slinging. Couldn't really move too much, tried to make it up one hill and didn't
fare too well, so we decided to reverse out. Ha Ha. Luckily we had deliberately 
left one vehicle up on dry land. As I tried backing up to get out, the vehicle 
was being forced by the mud and the downward slope over toward the bank of the 
canal. This was not making me happy. No matter what I did with the truck it got 
closer and closer to the four-foot drop into the water. Probably would have just
nose dived in, maybe even escaped damage but would have made for a very 
expensive tow bill I'm sure. We pressed Rons truck into action to try to rescue 
"green Car" from her predicament. The first pull was successful, so we kept 
pulling her up the hill. Not a good idea. Somehow she ended up in the same 
predicament all over again. This time there was no going anywhere. She was about
one foot of soft mud away from toppling over into the slimy crrek bed. Yuck. 
After a little thinking (novel idea, right?) we decided to use the hi-lift to 
try to pull her out. So we piled (all two of us) into Ron's ride and drove into 
town to look for a second tow strap. Borrowed one from the local garage. 
Returned to Green Car to find her exactly as we left her, and started setting up
the jack. I was very careful at this point to avoid putting the jack through any
flimsy parts of the vehicle. I didn't want to become the subject of any 
prime-time TV expo-zays. Well, halfway through the pull we were visitied by a 
friendly "eco-ranger" on a mountain bike who told us that we were on Fed 
property and proceeded to issue us both sommonses. The charge? Unauthorized 
Parking! A fine of 20 US dollars. I figured this was a fair price to pay for not
having to have my vehicle yanked out of the muck by a gap-toothed glue-addict 
driving a tow truck. (They have those out here, I swear). The friendly ranger 
asked me if Ineeded a tow and I said no thanks. He said he'd be back later to 
see how I was doing. After about an hour or so of pulling, re-strapping, 
pulling, re strapping, and pulling again we had moved the Green Car a distance 
about equivalent to her length. I tried driving forward and she went! I backed 
out the whole way, staying as far from the bank as possible. After that I was 
about as tired as I can remember being in quite a while, we went into town and 
watched as various Hummers and D90's drove in and out of the parking lot and 
ogled our beat up old "boneshakers". Hoopefully by this self-affected recovery 
with no damage I have saved myself from being labeled a "lugnut" by the OVLR 
folks... alas, the day is young...

Not sorry about using bandwidth since most of it gets wasted by list splitting 
babble!

Cheers
Dave "Whadda ya mean I can't park here?" Bobeck
Burleith Land Rovers (not really a) Club
Washington DC USA
dbobeck@ushmm.org

BTW please sign me up for BB, whievers running it could you email me and I'll 
give you my personal "file"...

Rove fast, die young... wot?!!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 13:44:51 UT
From: "Matthew Loxton" <mloxton@msn.com>
Subject: hand cranking winch trick

Trevor, sorry I don't get it. If the engine was incapable of getting you 
unstuck, then why would turning it by hand do the trick? Seems like an awful 
load of work just to get sweaty and risk dropping a spark plug into the dirt, 
or getting gunk into the engine. 

Personally, I prefer a hand operated "winch" . It looks like the old wire 
tensioners, and mostly all you need to get unstuck most times is just a 
*little* bit of help. My experience with the big winches is that they mostly 
just sit around and use up fuel.

I do think that wheel mounted capstans are a great idea.

Matthew	S-III
ZA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 14:48:03 UT
From: "Matthew Loxton" <mloxton@msn.com>
Subject: back to series use

Russel, thanks for the wake-up call. All the bickering between the plushbutts 
and leatherloins, has kept me in a stupor. Lets get on with some serious 
series thoughts.

1. what other vehicles have used that dinky little wiper blade that the S-III 
has, mine have done their life span now, and the supply has dried up.
2. I have found that a piece of carpet to be superior to sand ladders, plus 
can be used to sleep on etc.
3. I dismembered an old UPS and the keep a couple of the batteries (8AH) 
connected to the LR's battery. This allows a light-weight portable power for 
lamps, radios, etc. The batteries are deep cycle and sealed and are great for 
this use.
4. Watch out for cross winds over your bonnet! While in Botswana the bonnet 
stays snapped and for the 300Km from Maun to Nata I watched it like a hawk, as 
there was a constant 15-20 knot headwind. The bonnet stayed dead still (tyre 
also mounted on top). When I turned left to head toward Kasangula, the wind 
was now across me, and after a short while the bonnet lifted and whacked the 
window. Seems that the cross wind has more effect than a headwind.

Matthew "pass the panga"
ZA		S-III 

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 09:31:56 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Waving and frost heaves

> Ok. I saw this when I was in NH a few weeks ago. What exactly is a "frost 
> heave"?
-
Nature's speed bumps.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:32:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Waving and frost heaves

> Ok. I saw this when I was in NH a few weeks ago. What exactly is a "frost 
> heave"?

	Usually they are really bad in the Spring when the frost is coming
	out of the ground, but basically, frost/water under the tarmac heaves
	great sections of the tarmac up or down.  They can make some roads
	completely undrivable in the Eastern Townships of Quebec.  As Spring
	progresses, the road settles back down to its original form and you
	wouldn't even know there was a problem.  

	Basically, you are driving down yonder road, and rather than being
	nice and flat you hit sections where the pavement is several inches
	higher or lower than normal.  Good to get the rust out of your 
	springs. 

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 09:43:48 GMT -0600
Subject: Waving

I have a question about what to do about this.
Out driving in my Lightweight, I was waved at by someone
in a Model A.
About 18 or 19 years ago driving my Series III I was snubbed by 
another Series owner. I've never forgiven them (snarl)
It could happen again.
What to do, what to do?

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date:     Fri, 1 Mar 96 10:34:46 EST (1534Z)
From: LTC Larry Smith <smithla@arngrc-emh2.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  back to series use

Michael,

As to the windscreen wipers, I've been using the ANCO
11 inch blades (11-20 is the part number, I believe)
They are a tad bit long, but I'm tall and need the last
little bit of windscreen at the top cleared.

'til later,

Larry Smith
'72 SWB Petrol - Grover
Chester, VA USA

------------------------------

Date:     Fri, 1 Mar 96 10:38:07 EST (1538Z)
From: LTC Larry Smith <smithla@arngrc-emh2.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  back to series use

MATTHEW

OOPS!  I don't get to seen the original
message when I type I response.  A thousand
pardons for "misspelling" your name.

Larry (Boy is my face red) Smith

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 07:50:36 -0800
Subject: WAIT A MINUTE

>Now TeriAnn and others are telling me I am yuppie scum and >don't deserve to
be in their group, well:

I have never ever said that I thought Discovery or Range Rover owners are
yuppie scum.  If you go through the digests you will find that I have always
tried to be respectful of Discovery owners.  I've gone out of my way to say
how impressed I have been by the Disco's off road capability, and how nice
the Disco owners I have met were.

I have said that I thought anyone interested in both groups should subscribe
to both groups.  It should look just the same as it did before this eruption.
 All I asked was that people pay attention as to which group that were
posting model specific  questions/information to.

The very worst I have said about Range Rover owners is questioning if they
ever take them off the road.  An that's because I have personally ever seen
one off road at one event.  I did and do question how the air dam, lower side
steps and other ground effect panels on the new US spec Range Rover would
affect serious offroading.  BUT THAT'S IT... PERIOD. Heck the person who put
dirt down the oil filler of my newly rebuilt Land Rover engine was a 109 two
door series owner.  I have more grips about series owners than plushmobile
owners.

When I coined the term plushmobile, I never meant it to be a negative term.
 It was meant to be a cute term signifying the Rovers that can go offroad in
plush comfort.  It was quicker than saying "Discoveries and Range Rover".  It
was never meant to be negative.

Now there was an announced list split.  As a couple of people previously
pointed out, the list has been split for a couple of months but no one was
posting on the list set up to handle Discovery and Range Rover specific
questions and comments.  All I was trying to do  was send some polite boiler
plate to people who put Range Rover/Discovery specific postings on the series
list telling them that there was a list specifically for  that subject and
providing them with part of Bill's posting providing directions on how to
subscribe.
Personally I wish it was done the other way around where the Range Rovers and
Discoverys stayed on the original list because there are a lot more of them,
and the series people who cared to do so to went to a new list.

What this public condemnation and slandering of me seems to be about was a
personal message I was sending to someone typed quickly without a whole lot
of thought accidentally sent to the whole group because I cut and pasted to
the wrong window & hit send before checking what I'd done.  

> Now we all know what TeriAnn's true colors are

My true colours are what I have always stated and been up front about.

1.  I have a series Land Rover.  I do not have a Discovery or a Range Rover.
 I am not interested in the technical aspects of ether of these two cars.

2. I have met a lot of very nice Discovery and Range Rover owners both in
person and over the net.  I DO NOT think of them as yuppie scum.

3.  I think my car has about as many parts in common with Range Rovers &
Discoveries as with Jeeps and technical discussions of ECUs, center diffs,
power steering and CD changers are about as relevant as Jeep technical
discussions

4. I'm addicted to reading  e-mail and get a lot of it.  Its a whole lot
easier for me if the mail was relevant to my  interests.  People don't always
stick to a subject, nor do they always name subjects well.  I have been
deleting about 2/3rds of the LRO postings without reading because they appear
to be Discovery or Range Rover related. 

5.  All I wanted was fewer more relevant e-mails hitting my mail box

>Now TeriAnn and others are telling me I am yuppie scum and >don't deserve to
be in their group, well:

If your going to lynch me, lynch me for something I've done, not for
something you've made up.

ALSO
Tom Walsh
Why did you drag this inquisition into the West coast Land Rover mail
list???????

That list has nothing to do with the current inquisition.  If your trying to
slander me in every list I belong to, don't forget the VTR, Triumph, British
Car, Large Format and medium format photography lists.  

I have never seen a more insecure group willing to lynch people because they
were given a forum to discuss their car's unique features.

I'm certainly impressed

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 15:53:08 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: List split

I made my views a few weeks back and got hammered for my trouble. I have given 
up with the small minority that is the cause of this selfish in fighting.  If 
it means that much to everyone,  lets vote. 

If you series bigots want to split, then we should take our superior coil 
suspended vehicles to the other list. Screw you all, I have had it with you 
pompous snobs. The comments that Russell made about dents etc. was just 
ridiculous. Why do you need dents in your vehicles to prove a point ? To me 
that is a sign of bad driving !  No, it's because the leaf sprung Land Rovers 
don't have the superior coils to get out of the way of body damaging rocks 
etc. That's why. 

Hey, I take my RR off-road and it has brush strips down either side ! And 
guess what, It's BULGA BLACK !!!!!!!

You Series vehicle owners wonder WHY  RR/DISCO owners don't wave at you and 
they have problems with you. You lot ARE just as bad, if not WORSE than the so 
called "PLUSHMOBILE CROWD" 

This is the second time in a few weeks that this has wasted time, and 
bandwidth. I'm sick of all those Series owners who think the world MUST 
revolve around and there vehicles.

I have been keeping check of the UNSUBSCRIBERS,8 THIS WEEK. WE ARE DRIVING 
OWNERS AWAY BECAUSE OF ALL THIS INFIGHTING. THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THE LAND 
ROVER MOVEMENT NEEDS. 

GET A LIFE. GROW UP. 

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 15:33:01 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: RE: To Hell with Splits!

Agree with you again.

----------
From:  Alan Richer
Sent:  Thursday, February 29, 1996 8:58 AM
Subject:  To Hell with Splits!

Series needling and coiler bigotry notwithstanding, I am heartily tired of all 

of this split tripe. Leave well enough alone and use the damn Delete key.

I've learned from the RR and Defender folk, and they from us. Learning is what 

it is all about, and frankly I'm getting just tired enough of this stupidity 
to 
unsubscribe and let you all stew. Stop dicking around and get back to the 
point. The car's the star, and check your ego at the door!

   aj"Damned annoyed..."r

P.S.: TeriAnn: Apologize has one "p"...8*) -ajr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 10:57:49 -0500
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Smith heaters (and comments)

Comments first:
1.  We have all seen enough on list split topics in the list.  Please stop or 
form a new list called LRO-Trash-talk or better yet make it a newsgroup. Most 
of use prefer to read about technical info and upcoming, current or recently 
past LR events.

2.  Anyone have suggestions on how to reinstall a smith heater so that I can 
avoid an airlock in the unit when reattached?   It has a fair amount of 
antifreeze in it but it is by no means full.  Is that good enough?

Thanks for the help

Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, MD 21020
dunsmo19@us.net

------------------------------

From: JEPurnell@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 11:41:25 -0500
Subject: RE: vacuum advance

I don't know where to post this so I will cross post...(lawks! )
I want to try and clear up a couple points on vacuum advance, vac retard, and
ignition timing that were brought up a few days ago.  Hope i don't muddle the
issue.

>I always understood that vacuum advance was an emission control thing.  

Actually, vacuum RETARD was an emissions control thing, as well as a way on
some turbo charged cars (e.g. Corvair Spyder)  to keep the pistons from
exiting the engine out the
side of the block (apparently not the correct way to remove a piston?).  If
you look at most pre-smog cars, you'll notice that they indeed did have
vacuum
advance diaphram on the distributor.  Vacuum retard on turbos was used at
high boost conditions, manifold pressure (positive in this case) was used to
push back the timing from the point the centrifugal weights had advanced it
to.    Lots of boost, plus lots of advance and commercial fuel,  makes Jack's
engine a pile of
scrap.

Some emission control distributors used both a vac advance and a vac retard.
 The retard was generally used at idle and to stop/prevent dieseling.  The
mechanisms were usually designed such that the advance took precedence, i.e.
if the two were fighting, the advance would always win. (how's that for fuel
economy and power OVER emissions!)  The advance is routed to ported vacuum,
just above the idle postion of the butterfly, and the retard is plumbed just
below the idle butterfly position.  This way they don't fight at idle.  When
you shut off the engine, the retard is active and if your engine is dieseling
there will still be a vacuum below the butterfly and this cranks back your
ignition timing, helping to stop the dieseling.  

>This centrifugal advance means that at zero rpm (i.e. as the engine is 
>started), the timing is sifgnificantly retarded (equal in fact to the 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>advance the timing somewhat while the engine is idling.  The centrifugal 
>advance doesn't really kick in significantly at idle.  

Well, no, not exactly.  For a clean burning idle...you want
to RETARD the ignition.  In general, for emissions purposes, you want the
ignition event retarded throughout the whole operating range compared to the
optimum power/efficiency timing.  Hence vac retard as explained above.  You
get a significant HC and CO reduction  if
you delay the point of ignition until just after the exhaust valve opens,
i.e.
start opening your exhaust valve BEFORE you complete your burn.  Yup, it
wastes fuel, however you get a wonderful thermal reaction in the exhaust
system which
promotes more complete burning of those unburned HCs that made it through the
combustion event unscathed.  And, if you add an air
injection pump to supply excess oxygen in the exhaust manifold, you can
augment the benefit during the warm-up phase (when
the mixture is still rich), before the catalyst starts working.    

Retarding ignition timing also lowers combustion chamber temperature, and
that gives you lower NOx.  So, if you are trying to pass those smog tests at
your local gas station, RETARD your ignition to the point where it runs fer
crap and hope the technician doesn't check your timing, this method has
gotten  "cammed up" V8s to pass California tests, it's one of those cheatin'
tricks.  (checking your timing is one of the components of smog tests.)

While not specifically on topic, this brings up another past post.  This idea
of lowering combustion chamber temperature is also the reason for EGR,
exhaust gas recirculation.  By feeding a controlled amount of exhaust gas
back into the intake manifold, you are diluting the incoming charge and
utlimately lowering chamber temperatures.  Again, yup, it wastes fuel, but
the effects on emissions are dramatic.  Many cars today have EGR accounted
for by valve overlap  timing via the camshaft, so there are no extra parts or
passageways needed in intake manifolds.   And the wasting fuel part has been
much more than compensated for by super fine fuel control.  When EFI
works...it really works.

>The vacuum advance 
>system provides the necessary ignition advance by taking ported vacuum 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>never any significant vacuum advance under acceleration 'cos the throttle 
>is open too far.

Vacuum advance, as opposed to mechanical advance, is used at part throttle
and decelerating conditions mainly for fuel economy and driveability, though
everything has some effect on emissions (see vac. retard above).  At part
throttle and decel conditions, your mixture in the combustion chamber is
lean.  Lean mixtures are slower burning, so for max efficiency you need to
ignite the mixture SOONER, to account for this longer burn time.  This gives
the piston the maximum push at the correct time once the mixture is nearly
done burning.  

 Think of air intake, ignition timing, fuel control, and piston timing as one
big slinky.  You know, the kid's toy that is a big coiled spring.  At all
speeds and loads, the idea is to keep the slinky moving smoothly back and
forth, back and forth.  If you get your rhythm down right, you can really
build some movement in that slinky, but if you then jiggle your hand out of
sync, you really blow the movement.  And that is what knock, or pre-ignition
does to your piston.  If you have too far advanced ignition timing under
heavy load, you'll get early combustion, which starts pushing the piston down
while it is on  its way UP.  Besides the mechanical pounding the piston head
takes, it wastes fuel too.

Static timing, and mechanical advance take care of ignition  timing for
engine speed (rpm), and vacuum advance take care of the timing corresponding
to engine load and output.

Interesting use of variable ignition timing in new cars (not in the Series of
course...) is individual cylinder knock control and "idle-catching."  Using
the computer controlled ignition, if one cylinder is knocking, only THAT
cylinder's ignition timing is retarded to stop the knock, instead of backing
off all cylinders.  Much less power/efficiency loss here, better mpg.  And if
the engine seems like it is gonna stall at idle, the ECU can advance the
ignition timing instantaneously, thereby raising the engine's idle, and
creating more idle torque to prevent a stall.  This is a much easier and more
 responsive way of "idle-catching"  when compared with idle control valves
with motors, as ignition timing can be changed electronically and thus
immediately.

who woulda thunk it?  You Series folks sure you don't wanta add a computer or
two??

Hope this helps.

John. Defender90

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 11:41:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Hand crank instead of winch

In a message dated 96-02-29 14:24:46 EST, you write:

Where is my ignition key? 
>>John, D90, electric start...can you believe that?  
>Well, this method was not to start your engine, but to pull the car out of 
>the muck - except it would not do that, either, of course. But since you are

>probably too cheap to get the crank adapter front plates anyway, why do I 
>bother explaining? 

In fact I am too cheap to buy the adapter front plates. I need to buy more
"lookin' good" accessories before this.   I have also decided that I will
never get stuck in the muck as a duck with no luck since I won't have 3
people with me, nor the socket and ratchet to remove the spark plugs (where
ARE those spark plugs anyway?)  I gotta look this one up in Land Rover
Experience.  Crankin' yerself outta the ditch, why don't ya just call "Land
Rover Recovery?"
Johnny. Cranky90

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 11:42:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Joy riders crash-test 90

I guess most of this list have not heard of the famed
(yet relatively rare) antus ingitiatus, or ignition ant, indigenous to the
Caribbean.  We don't have that problem here, although antus pantus, or ants
in the pants has been known and observed in portions of the upper midwest for
quite some time.

John, D90,  Roveratim

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:05:12 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Part 1 of Aluminium welding (long and technical)

The following info has been shamelessly stolen from:
The Land Rover Series One Newsletter No. 71 (part 1)  and
Guide to Purchase and DIY Restoration... by Lindsay Porter (part 2).
My own remarks are in double parentheses.

Welding Aluminium
This can be done using Lumiweld to make a strong fused joint, using only a 
butane blow lamp as a heat source. It will work on almost any type or grade 
of aluminium including Birmabright and castings.

Lumiweld can be obtained from Frost Auto Restoration Techniques Ltd,
Crawford Street, Rochdale, Lancs OL16 5 NU. They have an excellent catalogue 
of specialist tools and equipment for vehicle restorers - it makes you 
drool! The catalogue costs GBP 1. ((This was in 1993, I think. The Eastwood 
Company also offers Lumiweld, and I think they operate in the US, also. 
Their catalogue is also very good.))

The alternative is to use Birmabright! This is detailed in the March 1951 
Workshop Manual sold through the Club Shop ((The Land Rover Series One Club 
Shop, Graham Powney, 15 Woodcroft Road, St. Annes, Bristol, BS4 4QW, Great 
Britain. 80 inch Workshop Manual (reproduction of TP/138/A), GBP 26.))

Reference is made to Brazing, Soldering, Reaction Soldering and the Mullard 
Ultrasonic Soldering Iron (only GBP 70 in 1951!) ((In 1950, the standard 80 
inch cost GBP 540, to put things into perspective.)) and then, as a last 
resort, it says, Gas Welding:

Annealing - 
Birmabright can be softened for general working by heating for a very short 
time (1-5 minutes) to a temperature of 360-380 degrees centigrade ((680-716 
degrees Fahrenheit)). This can be checked by rubbing one side of the panel 
with ordinary soap. When the panel is heated from the other side, the soap 
mark will begin to clear at this temperature.

Welding Rod - 
The recommended rod can be supplied by Birmabright Ltd (do they still 
exist?), or, as an alternative, shear a narrow strip of parent material from 
a discarded sheet or damaged panel.

Welding Flux - 
A suitable flux is most important and it must be sufficiently acidic to 
dissolve away the oxides at the surface of the panel prior to welding. The 
flux recommended is "Hari-Kari" Aluminium Welding Flux, Red Label (Midland 
Welding Supply Co, Lakey Lane, Hall Green, Birmingham), although a suitable 
alternative should be available locally. (Any ideas?) ((You might well ask. 
Hari-Kari does not sound like it had the potential for a successful brand 
name, although Red Label sounds familiar. I swear I did not make that part up!))

Preparation - 
The area  to be welded should be scratch-brushed with a fine ((stainless)) 
steel ((or brass)) wire brush or ((aluminium)) emery cloth to remove as much 
surface oxide as possible, then the flux used to remove the remainder. 
(Eastwood offers stainless brushes and picks in their Lumiweld kit.))

Welding Technique - 
A neutral flame (oxy-acetylene) is necessary, and the cone directed towards 
the bottom of the seal. The actual weld should be made by using the 
"leftward" technique:

The blowpipe must be held in the right hand, at an angle of 40-50 degrees, 
and moved steadily to the left without any lateral movement. The welding rod 
is held in the left hand at an angle of 30-40 degrees and must be given a 
progressive circular movement. ((That means: Have the welding sheets 
horizontally, with the piece to be welded going left to right in front of 
you, the edges parallel to your pelvis. Hold the torch so it points from 
upper right to lower left about 45 degrees from horizontal; hold the rod so 
it points from upper left to lower right, a little flatter than the torch, 
and *use a heavy-duty glove* on your left hand! Nedless to say, the cone of 
the flame, the rod and the soon-to-be weld should all meet at the same 
point. Now move both hands from right to left with the necessary speed, 
making little circles with the rod as it melts, hopefully, and *not* making 
little circles with the torch!))

Cleaning and Cold Working the Completed Weld - 
To avoid subsequent corrosion all traces of flux must be removed. Wash the 
panel in warm water with thourough scrubbing with a fine ((stainless)) steel 
((or brass)) brush. Where possible it should be dipped in a warm 5 percent 
nitric acid solution and immediately rinsed in cold water.

As the welding temperature is far in excess of the annealing temperature, it 
is most important that the original properties of the weld and adjacent 
metal is now regained by cold working, i.e. hammering. The deposited metal 
has a coarse grained cast and thourough cold working tends to retsore the 
mechanical properties and refine the grain size, apart from relieving 
contractional stresses, removing surface porosity and consolidating the 
surface of the weld.

((Please make sure to wear your safety goggles or face shield at all times 
when welding or working with flux. Dark glasses would also be appropriate 
when welding. Keep the room well ventilated. Keep well away from anything 
flamable.))

Part 2 to follow!
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:05:25 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Car Pre Heaters

Clinton D. Coates wrote:

>I was looking through  an old copy of Car Design and Technology
>when I came across an engine pre heater from
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>plumbed into the fuel system and burns the existing car
>fuel.

>Anyone heard of this company/used their products?

Clinton - as far as I remember, this is a German company well established in=

the truck and farm machinery industry. They also make car pre-heaters that=

will start heating up the inside of your car at a pre-set time, also running=

off the fuel tank. They have been around for many years here, so I would
imagine there isn't anything wrong with their products. If you want me to, I=

can probably find out more about them.

As John from Wisconsin said, Ebersp=E4cher is a very good brand and maybe=
 more
geared towards the car maket.
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:05:18 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Part 2 of Aluminium Welding (long and technical)

>From Guide to Purchase and DIY Restoration Land-Rover Series I, II and III 
by Lindsay Porter, Haynes Publishing, reprinted 1995. I bought my copy from 
The LRO Book Shop, Anglian House, Chapel Lane, Botesdale, Diss, Norfolk, 
IP22 1DT, Fax (UK) 1379 898244, GBP 16.99 (ten percent off to LRO Subscribers).

Gas Welding
...Gas welding remains the most versatile technique of all, but has a few 
drawbacks in that a higher level of skill is required (why not enrol in one 
of the many welding classes run by local authorities?) and that, if using 
acetylene, the gas bottles are less safe to store and use. (Also, check 
local by-laws regarding gas-bottle storage.) Moreover, novice gas welded 
panels are almost certain to buckle and distort and will take a lot more 
work to be made to fit properly and to allow a smooth and ripple-free paint 
finish.

The Land-Rover workshop manual states that Birmabright can be gas welded 
without major problems, although in practice, the welding of aluminium and 
aluminium alloy is extremely difficult for all but the most experienced 
welder. The principal difficulty is that, unlike steel, which goes through 
red and yellow to white heat when it is melted, aluminium displays no 
perceptible colour change before suddenly melting and flushing away from the 
weld area before welding rod can be added. Don't practice on your 
Land-Rover's bodywork: buy a scrap panel from a breaker and practise on that.

If you really want to have a go, the following guidelines should be adhered to.

A small jet must be used, one or two sizes smaller than would be used for 
welding sheet steel of comparable thickness. For example, use a No. 2 nozzle 
for welding 18swg (.048 in) ((.122 mm)) and a No. 3 for 16swg (.064 in) 
((.163 mm)) sheet. The flame should be smooth, quiet and neutral, although a 
slightly reducing flame might be used - in other words, there might be a 
slight excess of acetylene.

Use only 5 percent magnesium/aluminium welding rod, Sifalumin No. 27 (use 
Sifbronze special flux with this rod), or a thin strip cut from an old piece 
of Birmabright; do not use too wide or thick a strip though, as trouble may 
be experienced in making it melt before the material being welded!

Clean the surface of the panel being worked on to ensure it is free of all 
grease and paint, dry thouroughly and then clean the edges to be welded, 
plus an area at least half an inch either side of the weld, with a stiff 
((stainless steel or brass)) wire brush or ((stainless steel or brass)) wire 
wool. Cleanliness is essential! Also clean the welding rod or strip with 
((stainless steel or brass)) wire wool.

An acid flux must be used when welding Birmabright, and you should follow 
the instructions exactly for whichever make of flux you decide upon (some 
flux is used in powder form, while some is mixed into a paste). 

As we said earlier, one of the problems of welding aluminium and its alloys 
is that it doesn't go red hot before melting, and so there is nothing about 
the appearance of the metal to show that it has reached welding 
temperatures. With some experience, you will be able to gauge this point 
instinctively, but a useful guide initially is to sprinkle a little sawdust 
over the work; this will sparkle and char when the right temperature is 
approached.

As the flux you should use is highly acid, it is essential to wash it off 
thoroughly immediately after a weld is completed. The hottest possible water 
should be used, with ((stainless steel or brass)) wire wool or a stiff 
brush. Very hot, soapy water is ideal because of the alkaline nature of the 
soap, which will tend to kill the acid. Wear protective rubber gloves or 
goggles ((now he tells me!!)).

Once more, we strongly recommend that you make a few welds on scrap 
Birmabright before an actual repair is undertaken if you are not already 
experienced in welding aluminium and its alloys.

The heat of welding will have softened the metal in the area of the repair, 
and it may be hardenend again by peening with a light hammer. Many light 
blows are preferable to fewer heavy ones. Use a dolly or anvil behind the 
metal to prevent denting and to make the hammering more effective. If you 
overdo it, however, the metal will stretch and buckle. Filing off surplus 
metal from the weld will also help to harden the work again.

Welding Tears and Patching Metal

... If one of the body panels is torn and the tear extends to the edge of 
the panel, start the weld from the end *away* from the edge; also at this 
point drill a small hole to prevent the crack spreading.

When welding a long tear or making a long welded joint ((don't inhale!)), 
tack the edges to be welded at intervals of 2-4 in (50-100 mm) with spots. 
This is done by melting the metal at the starting end and fusing into it a 
small amount of the filler rod, repeating the process at the suggested 
intervals. After this, weld continuously along the joint from right to left, 
increasing the speed of the weld as the material heats up. After the work 
has cooled, wash off all traces of flux as described earlier, and file off 
any excess of build-up material.

When patching a hole in a panel for any reason, cut the patch for the 
correct shape for the hole to be filled, but of such size as to leave a gap 
of about 1/32 in ((.8 mm)) between it and the panel all round. Clean the 
patch and the panel, and then weld in the manner already covered. Never 
apply an overlay patch as this will look awful! Once the patch is welded in 
place, a skim of body filler can be applied over the top and rubbed down 
smooth to give an even, level surface.

((Please make sure to wear your safety goggles or face shield at all times 
when welding or working with flux. Dark glasses would also be appropriate 
when welding. Keep the room well ventilated. Keep well away from anything 
flamable.))

Well, that was that. Hope we hear from somebody with experience now!
Good welding
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 11:11:30 -0600
From: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu (Arnold Yoon)
Subject: Disco Service Bulletin and Bill gates

Hi LROs!!

Gotta favor to ask of all of you........Going up to the dealer in
Mid-March, and making a list of things to be looked at or fixed......It's
surprisingly short!!  Hmm....no Lucas Electrical gremlins.....nothing
serious, can you believe that???  (I'm not lying, really!!!)

Actually, the things that will be done:
        1.  Fix the damned steering squeak (bushing)
        2.  Tighten manifold bolts....replace gasket or something like that
(service rep was mumbling)
        3.  Change engine, diffs, and transfer case to Mobil 1

Now, the question that I have was......a long time ago, someone posted some
info about ther being some Disco Service bulletin from Solihull........It
was very specific in terms of VINs and the such.......I know that I have it
somewhere, but I can't find the post....If someone could repost or mail,
I'd be eternally thankful!

One more thing...can anyone tell me why the use of synthetic ATF in the
automatic gearbox and torque converter are strictly not reccomended?  huh?
wierd.....

++ love the gates comedy.....windoze 95..ain't it the truth.........sad but
true!!

Thanks again to all!!  Happy Rovering!!

Arnold Yoon
University of Wisconsin - Madison
E-Mail: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu
Voice: (608) 259-9936

Land Rover 4 Ever!
1995 Land Rover Discovery
"Four Wheel Drive Exemplified"

 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 08:11:11 -0800
From: Greg Moore <gmoore@mail.comox.island.net>
Subject: Re: portal axles

> > I stumbled on an advert for a portal axle conversion in an old magazine. Now I'm curious...
 
> If you do it, you gotta be on the PORTAL owners list. ;-) 
> Tom Rowe

Gee thanks Tom. As a newbie to the list(s?) I have been doing my best to 
steer clear of the controversy. The volume generated by the topic can 
result in a 'splitting' headache. :-)

Cheers, Greg

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 17:11:56 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: Series and Later LRs

THANK YOU ERIC.  AT LAST A MATURE OWNER SPEAKS 

----------
From:  ericz@cloud9.net
Sent:  Thursday, February 29, 1996 11:28 PM
Subject:  Series and Later LRs

I wasn't going to comment about the recent thread about how "plushmobiles" and 

series vehicles somehow don't have anything in common, but I think the later 
LR 
folks deserve a little more credit.

Recently I took part in the Winter Romp in Unity ME.  Of the fifteen or so 
vehicles, there were three RRs and on Disco that took part.  Two of the RRs 
came 
all the way from Indiana to take part!  Around the BBQ, around the bar and out 

on the off-road circuit there is no distinction between Series vehicles or 
non-series ones.  We are all out there slogging through the same stuff.  We 
pull 
each other out, direct each other and share in the experiences that make 
owning 
a Land Rover product so exciting.  

I learnt a lot out there, both from the series folks and otherwise.  Attitudes 

pushing out 'yuppies' and the like do nothing but tarnish our image and create 

antagonism.  Owning a LR is about individuality.  What if the later LR owners 
were to talk in such terms about the characters that drive Series vehicles?  
We're an individual lot and the respect that we have for each other should 
extend beyond the suspension of one's vehicle.

Sure, I've been snubbed by plenty of 'plushmobile' owners.  On a daily basis I 

see over a dozen different LR products. Most of them are later vehicles and I 
accept that a part if LRs being marketed to someone other than the 'lunatic 
fringe' of the automotive industry.  People, whatever their vehicle, who chose 

to subscribe to this list have shown their interest in the marque and their 
willingness to learn from others, let us respect that.  Let us encourage those 

that go beyond the call of duty and welcome them into the fraternity that we 
call Land Rover ownership.

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 12:13:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: driving out the plushies

On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, Tom Rowe wrote:

> Will the various model Land Rover products be allowed to intermix at 
> the events?

	Lots at the ROAV Mid-Atlantic Rally, very few ever up here at
	the Birthday Party...  Remember, LRNA sales = 20,016 vehicles
	for last year.  LRCanada sold 816 vehicles.  Not many to start
	with up here.  Unlike the USA, Series vehicles are still in an
	absolute majority for LR products in Canada, in fact there are
	probably four times as many Series vehicles as modern offerings
	in this country.

	Last year at the Birthday Party: 2 x d90, 1 x disco, 2 x rr <1>
	Two years ago                  : no post 1979 (rr or otherwise)
	Three years ago		       : no post 1979        "
	Four years ago		       : 1 x rr
	Five plus years ago	       : no post 1979 (rr or otherwise)

1.	Rovers North Range Rover from driving school
	list member Jon Humphrey in his RR
	list member Bill Kessel in his d90
	All three went off-road.  The other two never left the grass.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 12:25:32 PST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: List split

"Mark" (Talbot?) wrote:

> The comments that Russell made about dents etc. was just ridiculous. Why do 
>you need dents in your vehicles to prove a point ? To me that is a sign of 
>bad driving !  No, it's because the leaf sprung Land Rovers don't have the 
>superior coils to get out of the way of body damaging rocks etc. That's why.

Actually, it's the rocks fault for being too slow to get out of the way.

     
     >. I'm sick of all those Series owners who think the world MUST 
     >revolve around and there vehicles
     
     I'm not sure, but they're definitely slow enough for this to happen...
     
>GET A LIFE. GROW UP. 
     
Yay on the former, Nay on the latter.

Cheers

Dave A SIII owner that agrees with you

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 17:47:05 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: New Land Rover .... MOB

All, 

With all this C**P about list splitting I was thinking, JUST what will happen 
when CB40 Arrives at the end of the year !!!!! That will open up EVEN more 
Land Rover Owners, in the "inexpensive" 4X4 Market. 

Love to know what will happen when Russell, TeriAnn and Co. see them,  Drag 
them from their LAND ROVERS and beat them. 

Oh this will be fun. Image the audacity of the CB40 owners showing up at Land 
Rover rallies !! The Series owners could stand guard and shoot out the tyres 
on the way in.  

Still on thing will always remain, they will more comfortable, more reliable 
and just if not more capable then Series vehicles.  What a joy to see a CB40 
out performing a S2 or S3 on the trail !  

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 09:59:56 -0800
Subject: Crossed the line

Tom Walsh said:

>  Now TeriAnn and others are telling me I am yuppie scum 
>  and don't deserve to be in their group, well:

Tom I DEMAND a public apology for two things

1. I DEMAND you  apologize to the members of the West coast Land Rover list
for bringing an argument that doesn't concern that list to everyone's
e-mailer.  That looks like an attempt to slander me in all groups.

2. I DEMAND that unless you can go into the digest archives and find postings
from me that state that I think Discovery owners are yuppie scum, that you
publicly apologize to me for your libelous slander.  

You crossed over the line when you started falsely accusing me of saying
things.  Just be extremely glad that I don't believe in suing or you would be
in very deep do do

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 18:04:37 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: RRO How to subscribe

I'm out of this list, thank you for letting me leave !!!! To get rid of me 
even quicker, could someone inform me of just where I need to subscribe to, 
and keep it clean. I have tried calling the major to subscribe to RRO, no 
luck. 

Someone, please show me the way out of this madness. Once out, I ain't coming 
back. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:13:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: RRO How to subscribe

> I'm out of this list, thank you for letting me leave !!!! To get rid of me 
> even quicker, could someone inform me of just where I need to subscribe to, 
> and keep it clean. I have tried calling the major to subscribe to RRO, no 
> luck. 

	Being located on a unix box, it may be case sensitive.  I was on the
	understanding that you wrote to majordomo@land-rover.team.net
	and put "subscribe rro" in the body.  

> Someone, please show me the way out of this madness. Once out, I ain't coming 
> back. 

	Being a little hasty?   Just because some are neanderthal in their
	attitudes doesn't mean that the entire list is worthless.  I'm
	keeping my mouth shut over this one in hopes that it blows over
	faster.  No point in participating in the jihad, especially since
	it is impossible to accomplish in the first place.  People are getting
	painted into corners and reacting in a like fashion.  Others are
	have fun, dropping in the occassional comment to keep the 
	entertainment alive.  Just like the earlier flamefests, this shall
	pass and all will be back to normal, a happy, disfunctional family
	:-)

	Rgds from the tundra...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:31:00 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: not LR related

On 29 Feb 1996, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote:
snip... 
> REAL men drink Guinness! (or home-brewed equivalents). 

Several pints of Guinness were *just the thing*  after all of the 
discussion on the list yesterday regarding Series/non-Series LR, split 
list, etc. And my "delete" finger is no longer sore!

Cheers,
David

------------------------------

From: stretch@vol.net
Date: Sat,  2 Mar 96 01:45:33 PST
Subject: waving goodbye to series & non-series

Regrettably, I'm signing off for a while in the hopes that things 
will cool off over the next few weeks...the fun and informative 
list has become an annoyance due to a very real attitude problem.

Hoping to be non-argumentative, I'll offer an observation...take it 
or leave it:

It was evident the day I subscribed, that there is one person "in 
charge" of this list (that's Bill C) and that there is a definite 
division between series and non-series owners.  Further, the 
division is clearly driven by a very few series owners.  Further 
still, there are a few series owners who have appointed themselves 
the elder-statesmen of Land Rover-dom.  No doubt, some are genuine 
old timers and they deserve to be recognized as authorities on the 
subject.

In my relatively limited experience, it's not self-appointment nor 
time alone that makes a genuine elder-statesman.  Quality of 
knowledge and good attitude have a lot to do with it.  A quality 
elder-statesman can fill the position without a wierd attitude, 
have fun, enjoy interacting with the oldies AND newbies, and 
generally get along without a lot of acting-out.

It is true that a review of postings reveals no outright attacks, 
but it is equally true that the certain areas of the  list wreak of 
attitude and that resentments have been building on both "sides".  
Maybe this fiasco will serve to depressurize the group.

This entire event is about non-issues...as is often the case, the 
non-issues get all the energy...

I'll stay with the uk, au, za lists...they actually have fun and 
discuss intersting stuff...like Land Rovers and cross-country trips 
and local legislative issues and friendships and organized events 
and stuff, without all the flak thrown in.

If anyone needs an energy sink, try abortion, internet censorship, 
prayer in schools, or margerine vs butter.

Enjoy
-------------------------------------
Name: jcollins
E-mail: stretch@vol.net
Temp assgn:  Hong Kong
Date: 03/02/96
Time: 01:45:33
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 19:00:13 UT
From: "Stephen Miller" <BOMILCAR@msn.com>
Subject: Possible South Africa holiday

This is not a Land Rover posting, Sorry, 
but it is not a "list split" posting either.

I am considering a photo trip to South Africa, Kruger National Park 
specifically.  Alaska Brown bears have been my target for the past number of 
years and I am looking for a change subject.  I must admit that I have limited 
knowledge about South Africa and am looking for any insight that individuals 
on the list may have.  Best times to visit?  Places to go?  Private or Public 
Camps at the park?  Mala-Mala info and is it worth the $$$ ???  Blue Train, or 
the Rovos?  In short, any direction that any one might be willing to share.

Please, direct e-mail your information or it will set the list off for "non 
Rover postings".  Is not all the name calling just a little embarrassing?

Steve Miller
Houston Texas
USA
1972 Series III (with CD, carpet, leather and a shelf so my bull dogs can look 
out the back windows)  Original Owner
1988 RR (no burl wood, just the teak I cut and installed my self) bought used 
in 1993  

------------------------------

Subject: 3D Land Rover SIII model 
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 11:37:02 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

	Two of my coworkers are computer animators.   One of them, F.X.Dejesus,
has been threating to make a model of my Rover and then making a video of
it blowing up, being cut in half, melting...  You get the picture.  Well he's
made the model.   (Now he and other other animator keep muttering on how I
should be afraid, very afraid)  

	Anyway, for all of you that are interested, the model is now at:

ftp://avalon.viewpoint.com/pub/objects/vehicles/cars/lrover.obj.zip

	Pointers to Viewpoint, this ftp reference and a picture of the
model are now on the RoverWeb main page:  

http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/RoverWeb/

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

From: "fisk.spencer" <fisk@gene.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 11:42:15 -0800
Subject: CRACKED CYLINDER HEAD, DOUGH!!!

Hello all,
  I am in the process of rebuilding my 1957 Series I, and have replaced
the 2.0L engine with a 2.25 L Series II engine, and just received a call
from the shop where I am having the head rebuilt informing me that the
head has two sizable cracks.  I would like to know if anyone has a spare
head that I may be able to purchase for my Series II.  I have a chain
cover and water pump set-up from a Series IIA engine, so I could do with
either one.  I also have some other spare parts if anyone is interested
in a trade.  I am in the San Francisco bay area.  Thanks in advance for
your help and replies.  If ypu would like to reach me directly, my
E-Mail address is:  Fisk@Gene.com.
Thanks again!

Spencer Fisk
Series I 88    In Pieces.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 11:44:49 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminium Welding

At 06:05 PM 3/1/96 +0100, Peter Hirsh <lopezba@atnet.at> wrote:
>[..2 Part detailed Aluminium Welding instructions snipped..]

 WWooww, Peter!

 Thank you much for your gigantic typing effort in bringing the Aluminum
 Welding instructions of the Series I Club magazine to the Internet.

 There you are in Austria typing away, while we sleep in the US :)

 Thanks again.

 Cheers,
                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 19:52:11 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: Goodbye 

Well you lot finally did it. I'm sick of listening to all this wasted 
bandwidth. I'm off to the other side, to the civilized list. The rest of you 
who want the so called "plushmobiles" on the list, sorry you lost. 

The list and in fact the Rover movement will be poorer here in the USA because 
of the selfishness of a small few.  

I can now see why Pat Buchanan is gaining so much interest, after listening to 
some owners nasty comments, I'm glad to be moving over to the RRO.    

 

------------------------------

From: Steve Thomas <THOMSE-U@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 12:38:28 GMT
Subject: Diesel overkill

just what is diesel overkill?, I think this thread counts....

...in the meantime my 2.25 diesel IIa can crack along at some very 
pleasing speeds, or it may just feel fast because of those leaf 
springs. Of course in some conditions it is *very* fast, like when 
that Opel Manta (I hate them myself :( ) pulled over because it was 
holding us up....never mind the *snow*, I was going FASTER, so 
there...                                ~           ~~~~~~

Also Lisa Clayton, the first woman to sail single handed around the 
world, had her boat kitted out here at Birmingham University, she 
offered me the Volvo Penta marine diesel to go in Andy the other day, 
my question is this, a) travelling in knots, would I have to obey the 
speed limits, or fit the 'Sea Rover' package (ask Lanny at...etc.)
                     b) should I hold out for the engines from the 
'Sea Empress' which a welsh friend offered me (apparently he can get 
lots of free fuel too).

Steve

  _____  ________________________________________________________
 |/_|_\| 'Andy'-IIa 2.25 Diesel | "The apples don't fight the
 [|~#~|]  For Sale-2200 ono     | tangerines in Fruitopia. People
  U~~~U                         | could learn a lot from fruit."
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Stephen Thomas - 0121 452 1405 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: RRO How to subscribe
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 15:00:14 EST

> I'm out of this list, thank you for letting me leave !!!! To get rid of me 

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
> Someone, please show me the way out of this madness. Once out, I ain't coming 
> back. 

Here, Pal, Let me hold the door open for you.  Copy and paste-it'll
save time and effort.

Send mail to: Majordomo@Land-Rover-Owner.Team.Net

In the body of your message on the first line type:

unsubscribe land-rover-owner

or, if you're in digest mode, type:

unsubscribe lro-digest

and to subscribe to the RR list, send mail to the same Major.

In the body of your message on the first line type:

subscribe rro

You may even be able to do this in a single message.

later,
rd/nige (I wave at flush plushies)

------------------------------

From: Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com
Date: 1 Mar 96 15:04:34 -0500
Subject: RE: Tired of reading: LIST SPLITTING

>I am fed up with this discussion about LIST SPLITTING so i am going to
>unsubscribe the digest. I hope to be back some day  when the WAR is over!

Hey! I guess the list split is really reducing  traffic!

TeriAnn: DISCO DISCO DISCO DISCO DISCO DISCO

:-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 12:13:47 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Apologies and Bridging Ladders 

1. APOLOGIES First, I forswear any further communication on list
definitions, usage, splitting and turf, and apologize for my own probably
overdone rhetoric on the subject. I return to more substantive issues: 

2. BRIDGING LADDERS
Does anyone know a good source for suitable off-road bridging ladders, 
preferably aluminium, that can be used to cross otherwise uncrossable 
dents in the terrain and can be carried on a roof rack without adding too 
much top weight? I saw some advertized in LRO from Scotland but wasn't 
sure whether they are steel or aluminium or how heavy they are.

Cheers

John Brabyn
Mill Valley, Ca
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 15:13:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Major D, Updated pages 

On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, William Caloccia wrote:

> 	Land-Rover-Owner 911 members (741 digest, 186 real-time)

	I remember when we were assigning wheelbases to the numbers
	of subscribers to this list.  Now, is 911 an emergency phone
	number, or the designation for a porsche?  :-)

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: RE: Tired of reading: LIST SPLITTING
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 15:12:52 EST

> TeriAnn: DISCO DISCO DISCO DISCO DISCO DISCO
> :-)

Mark: RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL.

rd/nige

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 15:25:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Goodbye 

On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, Mark Talbot wrote:

> I can now see why Pat Buchanan is gaining so much interest, after listening 
> to some owners nasty comments, I'm glad to be moving over to the RRO.    

	Pat Buchanan?  That right wing Yankee pin-head who's politics fit
	right in with Flush Limbaugh?  Check out his web site:

		http://www.buchanan96.org

	If anything Series owners are left-wing types who vote for Gus Hall.

	:-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:39:21 -0800
From: smthengr@sirius.com (Jeff Smith)
Subject: Re: Goodbye (little LR content)

>On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, Mark Talbot wrote:
>> I can now see why Pat Buchanan is gaining so much interest, after listening 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>        If anything Series owners are left-wing types who vote for Gus Hall.
>        :-)

I just read a famous rover owner faq, no mention of Gus or Pat. However I
wonder if Al Franken is a Rover owner. His book "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat
Idiot" is quite humorous. 
Regards,

Jeff Smith. S.E.
email: smthengr@sirius.com

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:51:36 -0800
Subject: Re: Waving and frost heaves

On Fri, 01 Mar 96, "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org> wrote:

>Ok. I saw this when I was in NH a few weeks ago. What exactly is a "frost 
>heave"?

Its when the water from melting snow seeps into and under the pavement.  Lo and 
Behold, the water freezes again, 'heaving' the pavement into something other 
than the intended flat area.  Makes for very interesting driving with a SWB LR.

Eric

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:51:31 -0800
Subject: Re: Swamp Cooler

Back in '59, when my father bought his SII, he considered fitting A/C.  At that 
time, there were a few kits available to fit A/C to damn near anything.  
Evidently, however, there was some technical glitch that made it difficult on 
the SII (besides probably robbing the engine of most of its horsepower!).  I'll 
ask my father and get back to you.

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 15:27 MST
From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II)
Subject: Monument Valley Trip

Kelly and I are on Spring Break from March 9th to 17th.  We plan to
visit the Navajo Reservation, including Monument Valley and Canyon de
Chelley during the latter part of that break.  Would anyone be
interesting in joining us for all or part of the time?  We have made
no definite plans, so we are very flexible as to times and places.

Thanks,

James Howard	jhoward@argus.lowell.edu
NPOI		Flagstaff, AZ

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 14:58:29 -0800
Subject: Re: Monument Valley Trip

James,
The destinations of your trip sounds super but the notice is kind of short.
 If you decide to do it again next year, please let me know a couple of
months in advance.  I've been wanting to take the Rover out there and get
more pictures.  I keep getting the feeling that March/April is a good time to
go.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

From: "Gerald" <g@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:34:33 +0100
Subject: Re: Flimsy Discos 

On 29 Feb 96 at 18:36, SACME@aol.com wrote:

. . . .
> air bag and 24-year old somewhat frayed seat belts, and I think a case can be
. . . .

Seat belts do decay over time (according to my insurance company).  
How hard is it to replace them?

--
Gerald
Massachusetts, U.S.
g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

From: Xavier541@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 20:12:03 -0500
Subject: Cold Starting

I recently bought a '73 SIII.  In the morning the temp. would be below
freezing and the battery would barely turn over the engine.  I replaced the
battery and now the engine turns over but usualy doesn't fire.  After a few
minutes of trying the battery can barely turn over the engine.  Is my starter
moter drawing too much ampage or is there another problem?  

------------------------------

From: smitha@mail.CandW.lc
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:17:41 -0500
Subject: Re: sea roverl

 
>my question is this, a) travelling in knots, would I have to obey the 
>speed limits, or fit the 'Sea Rover' package (ask Lanny at...etc.)
Speed limits it is. Knots are only for on the sea. Inland (canals & rivers) 
 boats use mph.
Allan

------------------------------

From: smitha@mail.CandW.lc
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:17:44 -0500
Subject: Re: list address

Hi all.
I must say that I really liked the international content of the list when I 
first signed on in December. Recently Bill listed the various lists and 
memberships (I was relieved that there wasn't a *New World south of Key 
West* with members = 1). What is the list name for the group described 
as AU/EU/ZA? 

I'd like to make sure that I hear from the antipodes and from *die kerels 
met die biltong* ( sorry, no kappies in ASCII)
Allan Smith
300 Tdi 90   el Galeon
St. Lucia

------------------------------

From: smitha@mail.CandW.lc
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 22:24:01 -0500
Subject: Re:  LR drivers licence

>Now all I need is a French license to use in the 'states.
>Regards,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>Eric
>Even better, what you really need is a St. Lucian licence. It is a 24-page 
booklet with pages for annual stamps and a bunch of illustrations of 
policemen in pith helmets with their arms in various significant positions, 
plus advice on safety issues, such as how not to overtake on bridges. 
Unfortunately I have never been asked to show it the US. On my last trip to 
Zimbabwe I confirmed that this time-warp booklet was sufficient to allow me 
to drive the folks' vehicle, but never got asked to show it. Actually, it 
was remarkably similar to the (now lost) licence that I was issued when Don 
Andrews (brother of Julie Andrews of Sound of Music fame, and a policeman 
in the area I was in) went through a driving test with me in Fort Victoria, 
Rhodesia.
Regards
Allan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:06:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Alan Hood <alanh@merlin.nhmccd.cc.tx.us>

get 3/1/96 digest

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 22:23:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Clutch and Freewheel Probs

Trevor writes:

>1. Warn Hubs that have been stripped cleaned, lubricated (lightly) and 
>refitted are very hard to lock or unlock. What is torque value for bolts? 
>Can hub run out or bearing play affect them?

I had a pair of Warn Hubs on a Toledo built vehicle 15 yrs ago which were
very hard to lock/unlock. I recall stripping them down including removing the
pins which move to provide the locking, and lubricating with wheel bearing
grease. Also while the hub was apart I found the locking "knob" very
difficult to lock. I flowed WD-40 in around the perimeter, and then worked it
back and forth. It improved, although never easy to move. Hope this might
help.

David Cockey

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:25:31 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: Land-Rovers in China/Vietnam

David,
Following up on the Defender going to China..
With regards to LR saying there were never any in North Vietnam, my 
brother's father in law lived in N. Vietnam during the French and North 
Vietnamese, period.  He said the police used LRs along with other 
products.  According to him the LRs were well respected except for the 
body work which was "too brittle and would tear if repaired".  The East 
German vehicles (type?) which subsequently showed up were considered 
unmitigated crap.  Apparently the transmissions wore out very quickly; 
this wasn't bearings but actual gears.  The metal was very soft.
>From what he told me in a brief conversation (he saw I was driving a D90 
and recognized it) he must have been working with SIs and SIIs (from the 
50s).

Cheers, 

Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:32:28 -0600
From: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu (Arnold Yoon)
Subject: rro/Disco

Fellow LROs:

I must apologize for my recent posts to the LRO List......I read the digest
everyday, and should have gotten the Disco factor straight in my head.....I
apologize again for posting to lro, not rro.....but..Damnit!  We're still
all family, aren't we? *sniff*

Long Live Land Rover!!!

Arnold Yoon
University of Wisconsin - Madison
E-Mail: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu
Voice: (608) 259-9936

Land Rover 4 Ever!
1995 Land Rover Discovery
"Four Wheel Drive Exemplified"

 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 23:46:40 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: Lady Di's wiring

Steve Reddock asks...

>Why are my underpants outside my trousers???

Some strange Brit dressing custom?? Been drinking 90Wt again??

I give up...

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

From: CrankIt@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 23:52:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Apologies and Bridging Ladders 

Rovers North has them in their latest catalog for $195 a pair.  I think they
are 5 feet in length if that makes a difference.

Gene

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 23:55:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Re: cylinder head cracks

Spencer,

> the 2.0L engine with a 2.25 L Series II engine, and just received a call
> from the shop where I am having the head rebuilt informing me that the
> head has two sizable cracks.  I would like to know if anyone has a spare
> head that I may be able to purchase for my Series II.  I have a chain
> cover and water pump set-up from a Series IIA engine, so I could do with

    I am personally convinced that the SII head was MADE with cracks.  I
    went through this a couple of years ago.  Before I was done, I think
    I had paid to magnaflux every loose SII head on the East Coast, and
    it was the same thing with every single one.  Even if they cracked
    after manufacture, I would be very tempted to say that if it lasted
    30+ years and only cracked that much, it would probably last another
    30 without any problems.

    But of course I couldn't bring myself to put that much money into
    rebuilding and Stellite-ing a head known to have cracks.  And you
    probably can't either.

    So before you make the same mistake I did and pay off the machine
    shop's magnaflux equipment several times over, just give in and get
    a SIIA 8:1 head.  It bolts right on, with no front cover changes. 
    Whatever you do, make sure you get the complete rocker assembly that
    goes with the SIIA head; there are enough differences to drive you
    batty if you discover and correct them one at a time like I did!

    Of course I later on went even further and replaced the whole engine
    with a Turner unit via Rovers North and I've been happier ever
    since...

    Duncan, 1960 SII no longer with that miserably different original engine.

------------------------------

From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:12:56 -0500
Subject: C Ya'll Next Time 'Round.......

Howdy folks.......

After lot's of thought on the matter I will be unsubscribing to the list for
awhile after this posting.

Thoroughly enjoyed my stay here,  have downloaded 'loads' of technical matter
onto disk.   Apparently I've missed a lot of the recent flaming.......I tend
to punch the delete key if the subject matter doesn't seem technical in
nature.

The mail load however has become burdensome, as I get lot's of other mail in
addition to the LRO list.   If I'm gone or don't sign on for a day or so the
amount of mail is simply overwhelming.

New kid in the house takes up lot's of time,  and my other hobby, ham radio,
takes up spare time and online time.  Plus, there's that #%&@ job that takes
some time.

Make no mistake.......I'm still a dyed-in-the-wool Land Rover (and Range
Rover) fanatic, and, I shall be back.

Hugo,  the '66 109" is still for sale though I haven't pushed the issue much
recently.   If interested,  I can still be reached at the same 'ole email
address.

For those of you that I've had fairly regular correspondence with feel free
to keep in touch.   Later.

Rick Crider
KD4FXA
Monroe  NC
<rickcrider@aol.com>
(704) 289-6303
' 66 SIIa  109"       'Hugo'        ..........and still for sale.........
' 73 SIII  88"         'Jesse'       ..........my favorite LR pet........
' 88  Range Rover                 .........the daily mule........

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 22:58:21 -0800
From: bobnsueb@maxinet.com (Bob and Sue Bernard)
Subject: series air conditioning

Hi All,
Chris,Sekerere and Daryl Webb asked about air cond. in series cars.

I also saw the 109 TeriAnn mentioned. It belongs to Eric Mills in Concord Ca.
He was in Paradise for a camp trip.
The compressor is mounted on the left side of the engine and the cooling
unit is above the rear of the engine(kinda blocks the rear half of the head)
And it has a large bulge in the hood(bonnet) like a GTO shaker hood air scoop.
It blows through the center half of the window vents ,so the other half of
both vents can't open.
It works well.And he does have the original invoice that appears to be
installed 
when new.

Another one I saw last summer was a 61-88.Belongs to Matt I forget his last
name of Napa Ca.
It was different in that the cooler mounted in place of the big heater and
blew through a hole cut in the space to the right of the instruments.
It was aftermarket and he also had the original paperwork with pictures in
brochures I think?.
The part in front of the radiator (condenser?) was small so there was a
second one above the windshield.(kind of ugly but a roofrack could hide it)
I currently have the condensers and the compressor here at home as he is
removing the whole thing from the car. 

Bob Bernard

 __________________________________________________
|*******Please note our new Internet address*******|
|>>>>>>>>>>>  bobnsueb@maxinet.com   <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
|'69 88 SW Sherman, '60 88 P/U Stubby, '51 80 Nelly|
|__________________________________________________| 

------------------------------

Date: 	Fri, 01 Mar 1996 23:43:52 -0800
From: cyoungso@direct.ca (Chris Youngson)
Subject: LRO Real time disapperance?

I just realized after the Left Coast black-out that I have not been
recieving mail 
from the main list. Could the admin. check it out for me. I was on the real
time list.
I have been on for a long time now. Thanks.

Chris

------------------------------

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