Land Rover Owner Message Digest Contents

[ First Message Last | Table of Contents | <- Digest -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]

The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Send Submissions Land-Rover-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net

From: smitha@mail.CandW.lc
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:17:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Joy riders crash-test 90

On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) wrote:

is 
>for real, you deserve it for living on a tropical island while the rest of 
us 
>throng suffer up here in the cold.
>Bill Adams
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>'66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel  ...all there
>I swear on my laptop that it is absolutely true - where would the 
enjoyment be in making up something like that?. If you like I'll send you 
the screws left over from replacing all the dash/steering shroud plastic 
pieces, plus the 2nd screw that holds the contact unit in place as it is 
impossible to refit. Also, I know I deserve it or I wouldn't have mentioned 
what I would have been doing otherwise - chilling on the beachfront. But we 
suffer too - no parts access or competent service facilities. I would have 
changed the 11 pound part weeks ago and wouldn't be worrying right now 
about whether the owner of the fence is going to continue to harangue me 
about *repairing* her rusty rubbish when I park there again this morning. I 
expect the replacement, which I don't need any more, will arrive today, and 
require an hour or more of customs formalities.
Allan Smith
Recently fumigated 300 Tdi 90
St. Lucia 
>throng suffer up here in the cold.
>Bill Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:26:14 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: space shuttle tiles

Arron wrote:
> just ask for the material that they cover the stelf bomber in.

STELF?? You obviously don't need to be able to spell to get in to 
University these days!

One advantage of covering a Landy with radar absorbing material is that 
it would keep the vehicle warm. The stuff works, I believe, by causing 
the very short wavelength radiation to bounce around inside the coating 
and losing its energy to prevent it being reflected back for reception. 
The energy is converted to heat.

-- 
David Olley
.....................................................................................
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:59:03 +1100 (EST)
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: copyright

You do not need to label stuff copyright, (c) etc.
It is *automatically* copyright of the author or photographer
but who has the money to chase infringements down?

Re Merc' G-wagens and Pinzgauers:
spam, spam, spam, spam, ...
great Pinzgauer 6x6 pics at
http://www.sofcom.com.au/4WD/Steyr/Pinzgauer.html
spam, spam, spam, spam, sorry

Lloyd

------------------------------

Date:     Thu, 29 Feb 96 7:56:25 EST (1256Z)
From: LTC Larry Smith <smithla@arngrc-emh2.army.mil>
Subject:  Computer Humor (Non-LR) (Long)

To all,

After seeing TeriAnn's faux pas yesterday caused by a "new
mailer", I thought this might be appreciated.

Larry

Bill Gates' big decision

Bill Gates dies in a car accident.  He finds himself in purgatory, being
sized up by St. Peter.

SP: "Well, Bill, I'm really confused on this call; I'm not sure whether to
send you to Heaven or Hell. After all, you enormously helped society by
putting a computer in almost every home in America, yet you also created
that ghastly Windows '95.  I'm going to do something I've never done before
in your case; I'm going to let you decide where you want to go."

Bill replied, "Well, what's the difference between the two?"

SP: "I'm willing to let you visit both places briefly,  if it will help your
decision."

BG: "Fine, but where should I go first?"

SP: "I'll leave that up to you."

BG: "Okay then, let's try Hell first."

So Bill went to Hell.  It was a beautiful, clean, sandy beach with clear
waters and lots of bikini-clad women running around, playing in the water,
laughing and frolicking about. The sun was shining; the temperature perfect.
He was very pleased.

BG to SP:  "This is great! If this is hell, I REALLY want to see heaven!"

SP:  "Fine."

And off they went.

Heaven was a place high in the clouds, with angels drifting about, playing
harps and singing.  It was nice, but not as enticing as Hell.  Bill thought
for a quick minute, and rendered his decision.

BG:  "Hmmm.  I think I'd prefer Hell."

SP:  "Fine -- as you desire."

So Bill Gates went to Hell.  Two weeks later, St. Peter decided to check on
the late billionaire to see how he was doing in Hell.  When he got there, he
found Bill, shackled to a wall, screaming amongst hot flames in dark caves,
being burned and tortured by demons.

SP: "How's everything going?"

BG (voice filled with anguish and disappointment): "This is awful!  This is
nothing like the Hell I visited two weeks ago! I can't believe this is
happening!  What happened to that other place, with the beautiful beaches,
the scantily-clad women playing in the water?!???"

SP:  "That?  Oh, well, that was the demo."

<-

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 29 Feb 96 08:45:15 EST
Subject: Lists

>> How about a suite of tech lists and a general owner's list? Such as:
Series-tech
RR-tech
Def-tech and
LR-enthusiasts

The tech list would be just that. After all what percentage of RR tech is going
to help me with my IIA? But the non-tech stories, humor, comraderie, etc. of RR
owners is something I don't want to miss. <<

I couldn't agree more, except we might as well combine Def-tech and RR-tech
together, after all, this is the main area of similarity between them. This
would require adding just one more list that was Series-tech, then the main list
could remain as General LR stuff.

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 29-Feb-1996

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 05:48:38 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Lists

Yes, and that's "stealth" not "stelf."

Cheers!
John, shooting cheaply
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California

At 11:28 29.02.96 +0000, Arron wrote:
>Sorry about the typo errors in the last message but I was in a 
>rush to get to a lecture.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>rush to get to a lecture.
>Arron

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer <Alan_Richer.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 29 Feb 96  8:58:16 EST
Subject: To Hell with Splits!

Series needling and coiler bigotry notwithstanding, I am heartily tired of all 
of this split tripe. Leave well enough alone and use the damn Delete key.

I've learned from the RR and Defender folk, and they from us. Learning is what 
it is all about, and frankly I'm getting just tired enough of this stupidity to 
unsubscribe and let you all stew. Stop dicking around and get back to the 
point. The car's the star, and check your ego at the door!

   aj"Damned annoyed..."r

P.S.: TeriAnn: Apologize has one "p"...8*) -ajr

------------------------------

From: jve@phaseone.dk
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 15:00:21 
Subject: Re: Space shuttle tiles

Hi all.

Arron writes:

>All you need to protect yourself from Radar traps and speeding 
>cameras is a special covering for your landy.  I'm sure if you ask the 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>its expensive and makes the stelf bloody difficult to fly, however it 
>would have to be serious stuff to make a landy handle worse.

Yeah, but remember now: to make it disappear from the radar, there must be no 
right angles on it. Imagine a series LR with no right angles? Must be something 
like Judge Dredd's forward control LR. Now there's an idea - must be great in 
downtown traffic too.

Jens Vesterdahl
Copenhagen, Denmark
1972 109 sIII STW

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:40:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: driving out the plushies

On Wed, 28 Feb 1996 TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com wrote:

> Upon reading Bills email about splitting the list this morning I put together
>  a boiler plate letter and have been forwarding it to Disco & RR posters.  So
> far only one flame.  I'm on a campain to drive them there plushies off our
> range.

	Why the jihad?  Now's there's another list to subscribe too <sigh>
	No need to push everyone off who posts from a Disco base.  Smacks
	to much of thought-crime.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:38:48 -0600 (CST)
From: ccray@showme.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: List split, Boneshakers, Plushmobiles

bill, i saw the list of lists, but i deleted it too quickly.  
could you repost the "complet list of land rover mailing lists" 
so i can subscribe to all of them. 
i will probably post general stuff to all the lists,
too (is that reducing traffic?). 

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Harder                 Columbia, Missouri   314-882-2000
         "...you are what you drive..."
- 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental)  - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project)
- 69 SIIa 88 (parts)                   - 87 RR      (wife's)
---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:08:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Haslam <haslam@alcor.concordia.ca>
Subject: Tech vs. hand-waving & cupholder lists

I would love to see one tech list and one "plush" list, common to all LR 
products. My interest is exclusively tech. There is common (engineering) 
ground in all LR products.

In the meantime, I have subscribed to the RRO list.

...chris
montreal, canada

------------------------------

Date:     Thu, 29 Feb 96 10:02:33 EST (1502Z)
From: LTC Larry Smith <smithla@arngrc-emh2.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  To Hell with Splits!

I have to agree with Alan Richer, LEAVE THE LIST ALONE!!

I'm fairly new in the Land Rover game.  I learn something
almost everytime I sign on the list.  I've got a Series,
but someday hope to be able to get a Discovery.

As someone said about two weeks ago when the flamewar
first started, the Range Rovers, Defenders, and Discoverys
will be the Series equivalents in ten years.  I for one
want to know what to expect, the possible SPOTS, what to
look for when buying, etc.  Secondly, what if (and I have
no reason to believe they would) Land Rover (and BMW)
decide to exit North America again?  Where will WE as
a collective group be?  Sell all our vehicles to the
corporate giants to crush for "SMOG Points" because
we can't/won't maintain them?

Let's stay together to support the marque, support
ourselves, and maintain (and I hate the term) the
"corporate" knowledge base for the best vehicles in
the world.

Soap box vacated.

'til later,

Larry

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Misfires at the light
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 10:31:00 EST

Re Al Richers misfires and the possible misplaced sensor.
What you need, Alan, is a transparent distributor cap so you can check the 
relationship of the rotor and contacts. Since these are hard to find maybe 
you could try an old cap and drill a couple of strategically placed holes so 
you can see if the rotor is aligned with the contacts when at idle.

Trevor "Oh, these ideas are such fun" Easton 

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Cost of spamming
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 10:38:00 EST

Dave Brown wrote:  If you've read this far, then you must report yourself to
the internet police, and send me $10 to cover damages!

Dave, in order to send the $10 we must have a street address. Please publish 
this so all the spammers, perverts, wierdos, etc who are waiting in the 
wings for their copy of this address and the BB list can get in touch 
directly!!!!

Usual disclaimers. E.G I'm just kidding, I didn't write this my boss did, 
its copyright, it's not copyright, I can't spell etc

Trevor "You can get my address from the web, I'm not afraid" Easton

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:26:43 -0700
From: "Lee Zeltzer" <lzeltzer@isdnet.com>
Subject: Lists and more lists

I have been quitely watching the email float by on list splitting. My delete 
key works quickly and continued to work when Bill made the list split happen. 

Although I now am subscribed to two lists, the orginal version, since Terri 
Ann seems to think Defenders are ok and the Range Rovers now include Discos 
and I have both.

I guess if bandwidth was the issue my delete key will have to work even 
faster to delete messages sent to both groups. 

Seems foolish to me.

-- 
Lee Zeltzer, Senior Consultant
Innovative System Design
100 N. Stone Ave. Suite 605
Tucson AZ 85701
(520)791-3323 X 21
http://www.isdnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 10:42:55 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:To Hell with Splits!

>Alan Richer says; "I am heartily tired of all of this split tripe.
>Frankly I'm getting just tired enough of this stupidity to unsubscribe."

I guess I'm not the only one that feels that "strongly" about this split!

Thanks Alan I couldn't have said it better!
Regards,
Barnett Childress
(Land Rover Owner, never mind which one)

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Hand Crank / Winch
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 10:58:00 EST

I did omit to mention removing the plugs when using then hand crank to 
slowly extract oneself from the quagmire. I just thought the knowledgable 
members of this list would realise this was necessary both to reduce effort 
and to ensure that your exhaust is not full of unburned mixture when 
restarting. (or BOOM)  BTW Depressing the clutch while performing this 
manoevre is futile as your efforts will be expended in rotating the mass of 
the engine components and going nowhere.

Trevor "huff'n'puff" Easton

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Tubes and Tyres (tires)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 11:00:00 EST

You can use radial tubes with bias ply tyres but not the other way round. 
The radial tubes are designed to withstand the greater flexing of the side 
walls. Bias ply tubes in a radial tyre will overheat and fail.

------------------------------

Date: 29 Feb 96 11:00:57 EST
From: Stephen Whetstone <71001.3721@compuserve.com>
Subject: Subscription Change

unsubscribe lro-digest

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Driving out the plushmobiles/split list
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 11:16:00 EST

Personally, as a Series PERV, I'll wave, write, post and talk to anyone. The 
division is probably justified on the grounds of volume though.
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone could ensure the subject line reflected the 
content exactly and we had a searchable index to read only the stuff of 
interest. Then again pigs would probably fly and we'd all need large hats.

------------------------------

From: apollard@arinc.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:11:13 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: To Hell with Splits!

>I have to agree with Alan Richer, LEAVE THE LIST ALONE!!
...
>Let's stay together to support the marque, support
>ourselves, and maintain (and I hate the term) the
>"corporate" knowledge base for the best vehicles in
>the world.

Yeah!  A Land Rover is a Land Rover is a Land Rover!

    To attempt to make a distiction between Series vehicles and
    "Plushmobiles" seems like a form of reverse snobbery by Series owners
    who seem to think the owners of the newer vehicles haven't paid their
    dues in breakdowns and greasy nuckles.

    Well, I learned to love Land Rovers before I learned to drive in the
    family Series IIA and my current Land Rover is an 87 RR.  I love them
    all, but I'm not about to apologize for my air conditioning and wood
    trim.  And, at the same time, I will never have anything but the utmost
    respect for a birmabright dash and rock hard leaf springs.  We're all in
    this together.

    Rover on.

    Alan Pollard
    apollard@arinc.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 17:30:23 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Unleaded

Since there was some discussion about the use of unleaded in older vehicles, 
here's what some people in Austria do:
Castrol sells a product called Castrol TBE here which supposedly enables 
older engines to run on unleaded. I guess the additive mimics the 
lubricating effects of lead and protects the valve seats that way. Most 
Series drivers I know use it with good success. You are supposed to add 
about .05 litres of TBE to a tankful of gasoline, so the standard .5 litre 
container will last you ten tanks, which makes it very economical given the 
price differential between pseudo-leaded and unleaded here. 

Since I mostly fill her up in Hungary, where gasoline is still leaded and 
cheaper than in Austria, I have no personal experience with TBE. Probably 
the good stuff is not on sale in the US due to your liability laws... Too bad. 
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date:     Thu, 29 Feb 96 11:00:00 EST (1600Z)
From: LTC Larry Smith <smithla@arngrc-emh2.army.mil>
Subject:  Watch them hoses!

To all you Series Owners with Pollution Control

Took Grover to the car wash over the weekend to
get some of the accumulated salt/crud off the
undercarrage.  Gave him a good bath, esp the
frame rails.

Went to the gas station yesterday and filled up.
Fill until the hose kicks itself off.  Went
to the Post Office, parking on a sidling place.
Get out and find approx. 1/2 cup of gasoline on
the ground & more pouring.  Looks like its coming
from the aux. tank under driver's seat (LHD).
Pull toolbox cover and find fuel running from
the vapor line that "used" to go to the charcoal
cannister in the pollution control system (carefully
removed by the PO).  What looks like happened is
the rubber "elbow" that routes the hose up into the
cab for the antileak loop had dry rotted and I
seperated the two hoses with the pressure wash.
As the vapor vent on the tank is lower that the
gauge float assy., guess where the fuel went.

Solution:  As the cannister was already AWOL, as
well as the hook up to the carb/intake, I made a gasket
for the tank fitting to block off the tank vent outlet.
Yes, duly noted in the logbook for future reference/
owners.

Moral:  Check the pollution control hoses as you would
any other brake/fuel lines/hoses.

Larry Smith
'72 SWB Petrol - Grover
Chester, VA

------------------------------

From: Danny Phillips <danny@tlpgate.lonpar.co.uk>
Subject: bitz
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 16:38:49 GMT

dear all, i would like to say a few things.

1. why bother splitting the list most of us will subscribe to them all anyway.
2. about landies being flimsy, since when have the panels not been flimsy, ali
has always been easier to dent than steel. but i would rather be in a dented
motor that will last me more than 2 yrs without rusting than a euro box.
3. sorry no three just over exuberance with the keyboard.

sorry just my 2p worth

danny

p.s. the simmonites company is indeed the family who race. very friendly family

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 10:59:32 EST
Subject: Grille Badges

All in the US:

Anyone out there had grille badges made for clubs, etc in 
the past, especially with color?  I think Blue Ridge LRC did 
this a few years back.  Looking for a recommended supplier 
of similar item with reasonable minimum quantities.

Please respond directly.  Thanks much.

Hank

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 11:42:02 EST
Subject: Insurance tests of 4WDs

All,

Saw that bit on TV news last night.  Tests looked proper and 
method of comparison reasonable.  No doubt, the reason Disco 
placed 3rd of 6 in list of most expensive to repair was cost 
of parts, **not** necessarily extent of damage.  My 
confidence in the Disco's vehicle integrity (have one) is 
unaffected.

Pricing of parts by LRNA seems to me to be at least 
partially related to the liklihood of their use by body 
shops following collision.  Compare $59 for a complete tail 
light assy, mad up of numerous smaller bits, and $109 a 
license plate "plinth," a one-piece chunk of plain, lo-tech 
injection-molded black plastic as I recall.  It's a 
corporate business decision, of course, but the payment 
comes in the form of drivers' insurance premiums.  

My problem is that it's bad drivers *cause* more accidents 
than they acually *have* themselves.  Mobile hazards to 
navigation, they are.  (Here around DC we call them 
"taxis.")

Yet another reason to hold onto the LWB Ser 2 (have one 
also) forever.

Hank

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:40:51 -0800
From: Greg Moore <gmoore@mail.comox.island.net>
Subject: portal axles

Hello all,

I stumbled on an advert for a portal axle conversion in an old magazine. 
Now I'm curious. Anyone know how this works. Are gear reduction housings 
simply mounted on the ends of the existing axle housings? Is it a 
complete backing plate to backing plate refit? Is 'portal' a brand name 
or a generic for the type?

Greg
'70 11a SWB a project for 'tomorrow'
'71 11a SWB bust :-(  gets a rebuilt trans this week

------------------------------

From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:53:01 -0800
Subject: Re: driving out the plushies-oopps

Well TeriAnn,

I think you made your point quite eloquently. It's good to see what
you are really like! Makes for good comraderie and genuine warm
feelings, thanks.

I find apologizing only serves to CYA; it doesn't really change the
way you feel.

Personally, I find there is alot to learn from everybody about
Rovers, and perhaps even you can learn some things from me
(someday) even though I am only a plushy. And you wonder why
plushies don't wave!!

I'll be interested to watch some time down the road when the series
list gets split along the lines of I, II, III because of the
differences between them. True, they are quite similar, but then
too, RR, Disco's and D90s are more similar to series than, oh let's
say, Cherokees.

Oh well, good driving.

PS. If the list really does have to split into two or more, not
withstanding your feelings for me and my ilk, I will probably still
subscribe and post to the esteemed lr series list because I am
interested in what is being said there (much has nothing to do with
just series). My delete key  works quite nicely when it needs to.

Just my plush point of view...

On Feb 28,  5:18pm, TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com wrote:
> Subject: Re: driving out the plushies-oopps
>I do appologise
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>It was supposed to go to one person.
>I do appologise, I do appologise, I do appologise, I do
appologise, I do
>appologise, I do appologise, I do appologise, I do appologise, I
do
>appologise, I do appologise, I do appologise
>Ooooppps
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>TeriAnn
>-- End of excerpt from TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:04:16 -0800
Subject: Re: List split, Boneshakers, Plushmobiles

John,

I wholeheartedly agree with *everything* you stated: I will be
sorry to see the list split and enjoy the light-hearted sparing
just like loving siblings; even TeriAnn's, although I didn't
realize the underlying angst there was so strong :>) (maybe she
doesn't respect us because we don't defend ourselves sufficiently).
I am also happy to see the D90 with the rest of the kids instead of
the stuffy elders (if the list must be split).

I think in the long run, we will either all lose out by not staying
one list, or the combined traffic will be greater because of
cross-posting to "share" with the "other" group.

My non-humble opinions.

On Feb 28,  5:38pm, John Brabyn wrote:
> Subject: Re: List split, Boneshakers, Plushmobiles

On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jan Ben wrote:

> Why put the D90/110 with the plushmobiles? (Does my vote
count?)...
> I think the split should be not along the "coils" vs. "leaves"
line,
> but along the "burmabright dash" vs. "burl" divide.
Folks -- I trust you will take my following comments with a grain
of
salt, tongue in cheek, and in the spirit of camaraderie in which
they are
intended -- as I cannot resist a parting ramble on this subject.

As someone who is rather irritated to find suddenly that the list
is to be
split (my fault since I have been ignoring all previous traffic on
the
subject thinking it's just the annual debate) I am glad that at
least the
Defenders will be in with the "plushmobiles". For the mechanical
type
questions this makes the most sense since the running gear is all
nearly
identical.

For off roading discussions (and also sheer mechanical know-how) it
will
be a severe blow to lose the Series folks who (at least in the US)
possibly do more of it than either type of modern machine -- since
most
Defenders here are currently status symbols exceeding Range Rovers
in
prestige.

Regarding the "burmabright versus burl" divide, this phrase is an
interesting new variant on the old and enjoyable series of veiled
insults
to the latter group by the former, generally in the context of
defending
the old as superior to the new. This is generally a one-way
criticism (we
seldom see "plushmobile" owners assaulting the behaviour of Series
owners
-- although such barbs could equally readily be composed. There
isn't even
a semi-derogatory name for Series machines that's equivalent to the
oft-used "plushmobile" term). Even though we plushmobile folks have
generally had the losing end of this exchange, despite my futile
efforts
to restore the balance, I will sorely miss this amusing aspect of
the
combined list.

In order to provide some hope for the future of this debate, I
hereby
propose that counterparts to the "plushmobile" terminology be
developed,
possibly with a grant from the Ministry of Silly Names.  It looks
like the
list is to be split along the Coil versus Cart spring lines,
whereas the
philosophical divide is more on the "BONESHAKER VERSUS PLUSHMOBILE"
lines,
with Defenders suffering an identity crisis and falling somewhere
in
between.

In any case this "divide", such as it is, is more likely to be
reduced if
the groups stick together and keep communicating than if they are
forced
apart. So if the list has to be split it's good to include some
Burmabright in with the Burl!

So -- I vote for keeping the Defenders in with the Range Rovers and
Discoverys if we must be split.

My apologies for these sentimental ramblings

John Brabyn
Incorrigible plushmobile devotee

>-- End of excerpt from John Brabyn

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:09:09 -0800
Subject: Re: put D's with Series!!!

On Feb 28,  1:52pm, TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com wrote:
> Subject: Re: put D's with Series!!!
> I think the Defenders really belong in both groups and I hope

that Defender
> owners will subscribe to both lists.  The Defenders have many
mechanical
> things in common with the Discoverys and the Range Rovers that
make contact

> important.  However, the Defender is the modern day series Land
Rover and
> there are also a lot of parts that interchange there too.
> You CAN subscribe to both groups.  Its not like anyone is saying

you have a
> series car so you can only subscribe to the series list.  Its a
mater of

>  WHERE YOU POST QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS.  Its not like a group of
people have
> to go away.  Its a matter  of paying attention to the address
when posting to
> make sure it goes into the right subject group.

Much like it is just a matter of paying attention to putting an
appropriate subject line in to clue readers into message content. I
think that for your and few others convenience, many will suffer by
subscribing to multiple lists and having to delete cross posts to
these multiple lists in the desire to stay up-to-date and in tune.
(Some of us crave getting information about Rovers and are not too
particular about the content; maybe we are depraved :>).

> TeriAnn
>-- End of excerpt from TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:10:18 -0800
Subject: Re: List split, Boneshakers, Plushmobiles

On Feb 28,  7:50pm, TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com wrote:
> Subject: Re: List split, Boneshakers, Plushmobiles
> John,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]

> Subject: Re: List split, Boneshakers, Plushmobiles
> John,

> I really think defenders belong in both lists and I hope all
Defender owners
> will join both lists  and contribute to the plushie list for
drive train &
> running gear stuff and the series list for body and soul.
> TeriAnn

> I know a new series car when I see one
>-- End of excerpt from TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com

CYA... CYA... CYA... CYA... CYA... CYA... CYA... :>) :>) :>) :>)

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:11:02 -0800
Subject: Re: To Hell with Splits!

Absolutely.

On Feb 29,  8:58am, Alan Richer wrote:
> Subject: To Hell with Splits!

> Series needling and coiler bigotry notwithstanding, I am heartily
tired of all
> of this split tripe. Leave well enough alone and use the damn
Delete key.
> I've learned from the RR and Defender folk, and they from us.

Learning is what

> it is all about, and frankly I'm getting just tired enough of
this stupidity to
> unsubscribe and let you all stew. Stop dicking around and get
back to the
> point. The car's the star, and check your ego at the door!
>    aj"Damned annoyed..."r

> P.S.: TeriAnn: Apologize has one "p"...8*) -ajr
>-- End of excerpt from Alan Richer

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: I'm back
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 12:11:39 EST

Bill C. informs:

 The list is now *officially* split.

 You heard it here first.

AwwwwlRIGHT!  There *is* a God.

then TeA wrote:

Upon reading Bills email about splitting the list this morning I put together
 a boiler plate letter and have been forwarding it to Disco & RR posters.

We can always count on you, TeA, for a good typo.  I think she meant *posers*.

then,

I'm on a campain to drive them there plushies off our range.

Ooooooh, pushy pushy pushy.

but, alas, TeA retracts:

I do appologise

I did NOT mean for that message to go out to the entire list
It was supposed to go to one person.

I do appologise, I do appologise, I do appologise, I do appologise, I do
appologise, I do appologise, I do appologise, I do appologise, I do
appologise, I do appologise, I do appologise

Ooooppps

Not easy bein' green, is it?  Try being your Rover for a day.

cheers,
I'm back!
rd/nige

------------------------------

From: olsenc@ichips.intel.com
Subject: Re: Flimsy Discos
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:17:54 -0800 (PST)

In response to those figures listed from the crash test, I think it's
important to point out that cost is not a very good measure of overall
structural damage.  Considering that the Disco is ~4600lbs.  and the
Jeep GC is 3900lbs., I find it hard to believe that the Jeep would be
able to drive away any better after the crash.  Second, since the test
was performed in the states, did they consider the fact that domestic
vehicles don't have to have parts imported???

-Clint

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:31:39 -0500
From: michelbe@login.net (Michel)
Subject: Re: Binder

Douglas, 

I happen to have a spare A4 binder kicking around. It was originally for a
Series III manual, but all is left is the binder. It could take about two
inches thick of paper. I don't know how thick the D90 manual is, hope it fits.
I don't know where you are in the States, but I am living in Sherbrooke,
Quebec, Canada, (yes, up north). I could send it to you through the mail. In
exchange, you could pay me a beer at one of the Land Rover rallies, or even
better, let me test-drive your D90!

If you don't drive a Series LR, at least you'll have a Series look-a-like
workshop manual, and we couldn't tell the difference.

E-mail me if you are interested.

Michel

1963 109 PU (Rudolph)
1968 109 SW (ex-Nada, in the works)
1973 88 SW (21st century project)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:38:53 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: Diesels and other stuff

        Well I can see this is going no where. I have rebuilt to date 7
2.25 diesels for myself and for clients of my company, and all have been
less then what I consider overkill for the vehicles, Some where adequate,
but in my opinion, if I am the clarify this as my opinion everytime I state
something on the net, I never thought them to be MORE than what was safe or
useful in the vehicle. Road use in the US and our speeds require more, and
although diesels do have their place...I still don't think it is a well
rounded vehicle for ALL types of use. I still have a diesel 109, but I use
it for what I think it is good for, Off Road, and when I think mileage is
important, but if I go off to NY with my girlfreind, I don't grab the keys
to the diesel for that 8 hour ride. Having said that, I'm sure Mike and
others would, I pass much slower vehicles all the time, so someone is able
to stand the noise and the speed, more power to you. I would much rather
consider overkill a 300 Tdi stuffed into a stock 88. IMO that is overkill,
meaning it is over the top, for what is required, and not such a good idea.
To each his own.
        I also got a bunch of personal email about this conversation. 50
percent said they agreed or disagreed with my opinions, and the rest said I
should drop it before someone got upset???? Isn't this forum set up so
opinions can be expressed, then opposite opinions stated, rehashed, then
looked at, etc. etc. Isn't this just a big electronic conversation... the
same conversation that Mike and I would have if we were down at the pub? My
opinion against his opinion until one or the other sees the others side, or
until the two never reach middle ground? I enjoy conversations that express
opinions, especially like Mike's statements from across the seas. I would
never be able to have a talk with him except on the net. So I don't know
why people are asking me to not express my opinion, isn't that what this is
all about? I don't see anyone getting pissed off, just a spirited
conversation. I hope we are all having fun here, letting off steam, giving
our take on the world. I don't appreciate being told to be neutral. I'm not
neutral or politically correct, and I hope the rest of you aren't either.
Us Rover owners are supposed to be an independant lot, not a bunch of
middle of the road slugs. So state your opinion, and if you think mine are
wrong tell me. I may agrue with you, but I'll sure respect you more if you
let yourself be heard. Good job Mike, I enjoy the conversation. I'm just
sorry some people feel that conflicting opinions have no place on the
digest. I think they do!

Mike Smith, East Coast Rover Co.

------------------------------

From: tblake@smtpgw1.bathhe.ac.uk
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 17:45:57 gmt
Subject: 110 questions

     Hi all,
     
     I've just acquired my first and long awaited L-R - a '87 110 Station 
     Wagon fitted with a 2.5 non-turbo diesel.  It originally belonged to 
     the RAF but has spent the last 2 years living on a farmyard somewhere 
     in deepest Somerset.  I've spent two weeks cleaning off about half a 
     ton of manure from the chassis and am now going through the mechanics. 
      I'd be really grateful for an answer to the following :-
     
     1.)  The back of the vehicle lists  permanently to port - I'm guessing 
     that the rear springs need replacing - is it a relatively easy job ?? 
     do I need any special tools ??
     
     2.)  The speedo doesn't work - the speedometer itself is ok as is the 
     cable and it seems to fit ok into the LT77 gearbox - however no 
     movement on the dial while driving - is there a cog in the gearbox to 
     drive the cable - and if so can it be replaced without dismantling the 
     'box ??
     
     I'm planning to go to the Sodbury Sortout - are there any more L-R 
     autojumbles happening in SW  England ?
     
     Happy Rovering
     
     Tim Blake
     tblake@bathhe.ac.uk 

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 13:02:15 EST
Subject: Dateline, etc. (Not directly LR-related)

Saving us from rolling Jeeps, accelerating Audis, exploding 
Chevy saddle tanks, and flimsy Discos??

Proof that Big Brother Government is in cahoots with 
truth-twisting media -- they aren't doing *anything* at all 
about the genetic nightmare of Jane Pauley breeding with 
Garry Trudeau.

:-0
Hank

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:14:00 -0500
Subject: Series Sighting
From: "Andrew A. Dallas" <adallas@systemsoft.com>

Anybody here own the Green series vehicle that was parked new Computer 
City in Natick at 1:00 PM? 
Nice Snorkel!
-AD

************************************************************************
 Andrew A. Dallas
 Full Spectrum Software, Inc.
 30 Whittemore Road
 Newton, MA 02158, USA

 (617) 965-7580, On Site Office: (508) 647-2948
 email: adallas@tiac.net, Web Page: http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:18:15 -0600
From: Robert Kolander <kolanrj@gw.startribune.com>
Subject:  Snubbed by a ...

With all the discussion about getting snubbed by various LR's, I
thought my little weekend of snubbing would fit in quite nicely.

The scene:
A beautiful Saturday afternoon, 56 degrees in February in Minnesnowta
(it felt like summer! After the recent cold spell of 40 below, I
almost considered taking the top off the D90).

I had just finished washing up the D90, and was out running errands.
First off, cruising threw Downtown and I spot a brand new disco,
fully loaded (every brush bar imaginable, extra bells, whistles, you
name it). Well, I gave a friendly wave, and a nice little *toot*
*toot*, and got absolutely no response. (not even a blank stare). Oh
well, I figured. Just didn't recognize a fellow LR enthusiast. No
problemo.

Later that same day, driving by a RR just after it had pulled into a 
spot. They were pluggin their meter when I gave a wave and a toot, and
I just got a look like "what the hell are you waving at?"

Now, D90's are not common round here, but I'd like to think that most
LRO's would recognize a comrade. So, feeling a little low, I headed
home.  I was turning through an intersection, when parked at one of
the lights was a "monster" truck (a 1970 something Ford pickup jacked
way up with about 18" wheels). There was a kid (no more than 17)
driving with the backwards baseball cap, a big haired blonde teeny
bopper sitting next to him. Anyway, as I start my cornering, I look
over, and this kid looks at me (I was wearing sunglasses so he didn't
know if I was lookin at him or not) and, as rudely as possible,
motions as though he's trying to make himself vomit and sticks his
finger down his throat.  Well, he thought this was a hoot and drove
off, as I was left to wonder why in the hell anyone would be so rude.

To sum up:

2 snubs + 1 direct insult = confused D90.

oh well.
Bob K.
AA Yellow D90 #2721. 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:21:28 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Lists

I think this proposal from William Terry, or something like it, is the
best compromise for the splittage of the list if the boneshakers are
determined to eject the plushies. The splittage should only be for the
purposes of mechanical specialty, and all other messages should be posted
to the general (existing) LRO list. The new boneshaker technical list
could be bo or sro. 

The posting of notices telling us to get off the list, off our turf, etc
are fine and taken without offense, but tend to cause a reaction to set in
and make us reluctant to be kicked. We are all Land Rover Owners, and
those who want a separate list should be the ones who move. 

I do think it important to have some way of keeping a general Land Rover 
list of some sort -- preferably the present one. 

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, William Terry wrote:

> I proposed this once before, but didn't seem to get much response. I've also seen related suggestions.

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)]
>   http://glenfiddich.minerva.bah.com:8062/CyberJungle.html
>   MINERVA Development Team, Booz, Allen & Hamilton

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:26:28 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: List split, Boneshakers, Plushmobiles

Clayton -- that's the spirit -- lets let those who want separate lists be 
the ones who move!

Also from now on -- barbs about plushmobiles should be responded to in kind.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Clayton Kirkwood wrote:

> John,
> I wholeheartedly agree with *everything* you stated: I will be
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 104 lines)]
> -- 
> Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:30:48 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Snubbed by a ...

On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Robert Kolander wrote:

> With all the discussion about getting snubbed by various LR's, I
> thought my little weekend of snubbing would fit in quite nicely.

Sounds like a real rude dude you encountered! 

As far as snubbing by other LRs, we all experience it in all combinations 
-- I don't regard it as a snub though just ignorance on the part of the 
other party. I wave to all Land Rovers and only once in a great while get 
a wave back. It's fun though!

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:34:02 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: 110 questions

On Thu, 29 Feb 1996 tblake@smtpgw1.bathhe.ac.uk wrote:

>      1.)  The back of the vehicle lists  permanently to port - I'm guessing 
>      that the rear springs need replacing - is it a relatively easy job ?? 
>      do I need any special tools ??

Yes, it's a very easy job and requires only jacks, wheel stands and 
preferably a spring compressor but some wire will work for holding the 
spring in a compressed position.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 13:33:22 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:Snubbed by a ...

Bob,
Other LR owners don't seem to know, or care for that matter, that I drive 
a LR either. If that kid ever took that big "peice o junk" off road you 
would be pulling him out of the mud with your D90!

Keep up hope!
P.S. Nice color
Barnett Childress
95 D90
AA yellow

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:35:29 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: To Hell with Splits!

Hear Hear to all the following!!

John Brabyn
89RR

On Thu, 29 Feb 1996 apollard@arinc.com wrote:

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 33 lines)]
>     Rover on.
>     Alan Pollard
>     apollard@arinc.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:05:33 -0800
From: uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Clinton D. Coates)
Subject: UK Readers:Car Pre Heaters

Maybe someone in the UK can help me here.

I was looking through  an old copy of Car Design and Technology
when I came across an engine pre heater from 
Webasto Thermosystems (UK).  It looks like an engine bay
mounted water circulation heater.  The tricky bit is that it is
pl
plumbed into the fuel system and burns the existing car
fuel.

Anyone heard of this company/used their products?

Cold in Kamloops

Clinton

--
 __x___x_  /    Clinton D. Coates  uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca    
|__|__|__\/__   
|     |   |_ |  *Emerson* 61 lwb pickup.....mostly runs
  (_)"""""(_)"  *If it doesn't leak, its not a Land Rover*

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:04:20 -0500 (EST)
From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg)
Subject: Two cents on the split.

Short and sweet for the record.  I'm sorry to see the "Plushies" (no
offense intended) go.  I always thought that we were one big family, and
that most of the digs were in jest.   I guess some felt.  I hope some of
you folks stick around, because it's been nice getting to know you.

Peace. RoverOn!

Jeff
(.sig file deleted to save precious bandwidth)

==                                                                      ==
 Jeffrey A. Berg          Purple Shark Media                 Rowayton, CT

                         jeff@purpleshark.com
                          ==================
               My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
          My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
                       Taste for the good life,
                      I can see it no other way.
                                --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)
==                                                                      ==

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:16:26 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Isuzu Diesel conversion

Mark - two possible suppliers:
VM Specialists
(UK) 1246 551797

Milner conversions
(UK) 1629 734411

Hope you share your experience with the list!
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:18:03 -0600
From: William Owen <IB011CA@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us>
Subject:  Re[2]: To Hell with Splits! -Reply

Having ignored (deleted) the messages concerning the split as just the
semi-annual banter, I was quite suprised when my reply to a disco
related message on the LRO list was responded to by Terri Ann's
message that I was on the wrong list.  

This split seems rather sad as I enjoy both lists and feel that many topics
are of joint interest.  I will miss the wealth of technical knowledge
provided by the series folks as well as the trail, club outing, Camel
trophy info etc.  Even subscribing to both lists will not replace this
(unless everyone subscribes to both or the question is cross posted) 

 The whole tone of the debate makes me wonder if perhaps some RR
owners don't wave because they are afraid series owners will snob
them.  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:16:36 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Pinzgauer list

Hugo Madden <madhugo@best.com> wrote:
>'bout time we split out a Pinzgauer list, IMHO

They've tried that, but it turned out there was nothing to write about. 
Nothing breaks down, nothing squeaks, there is no latte dispensers or ARB 
lockers, and besides all the owners are strong, silent types.
Sorry
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:16:28 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: tire step

Matt Snyder wrote:
>I'm looking for one of those steps that you take out and fit over a tire, 
>for getting at the roof rack.  I've seen them, but I can't remember where.  
>Anyone know a source?
Matt - I hate to say this, but John Craddock used to advertise them at GBP 
29.99 incl. VAT. You may find the ad in 1995 LROI's.
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:16:30 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Hand crank instead of winch

John - I am getting confused here. Trevor said you could use a crank instead 
of a winch when you get really stuck - put the car in low first (or low 
reverse) and start cranking. So this is about an alternative to winching, 
not a method to start the engine. Therefore I said:
>Trevor - maybe you left that little piece of info out by design, but it is 
>>usually recommended to remove all the spark plugs first, or you will really 
>>be puffing, etc.

meaning that the compression of the engine would not allow you to turn the 
wheels by turning the crank. Then, for fun, I added:

>>Alternatively, have sombody step on the clutch pedal all the time.
>>Or do real men do it the hard way?
>>Peter Hirsch

meaning that stepping on the clutch would make it easier to crank the 
engine, but - needless to say - would not turn the wheels, thus 
counteracting the effect of the engine's compression. Now you say:

>So Peter, you are saying that a v8 Land Rover, like my Defender (if I were to
>equip it for hand cranking), would require 3 people to start it via hand
>cranks?  1 to push the clutch in, and the other two on the two cranks?

Sounds good - if you really get stuck, leave the spark plugs in there (eight 
are too hard to remove anyway), get two people to crank the two cranks my 
friend could supply, and since they could not both turn the engine and the 
wheels, have a third person step on the clutch. 

>Where is my ignition key? 
>John, D90, electric start...can you believe that?  

Well, this method was not to start your engine, but to pull the car out of 
the muck - except it would not do that, either, of course. But since you are 
probably too cheap to get the crank adapter front plates anyway, why do I 
bother explaining? 

BTW, we are thinking of providing six cylinder owners with a crank that is 
offset at sixty degrees vs. the normal ninety degrees for the four cylinder.
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:16:34 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Splitting biltong

William Dan terry wrote:
>I would get OZ stories about biltong and how to tune my Series carb. 
Haven't read any OZ story about biltong lately. Seem to remember some ZA 
stuff on kangaroos - or was it kiwis? Are we getting a little confused there?
Regards
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:16:19 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Increased volume

David - you wrote:

>P.S. With *only* around 100 messages a day, the digest goes by *much* too
>quickly!! Why, by the early afternoon, I've already browsed through the
>entire digest! Come-on people! I have a couple of hours left of work time
>to kill! Surely we can push the volume up past 200-300 posts!!!

Since I only read half the mail because of a lack of time I did not see the 
second half of your message, so I don't know it was not to be taken 
seriously. I resent being pushed to write more than I do already! The days 
of slavery are over! I absolutely refuse to increase my output more than, 
say, 25 percent. Let somebody else take up the slack!

However, in order to meet you half way, I am sending this to you directly, 
with a copy to the list. A 100 % increase in quantity, and no decrease in 
quality (for several reasons)!
Have a nice day
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:19:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Lists

In a message dated 96-02-29 08:53:09 EST, you write:

Yes, and that's "stealth" not "stelf."
>Cheers!
>John, shooting cheaply
>'95 Discovery
>San Francisco, California

zzzzzzzzing...........  cheep is rite!

:>) John. E89, adisonMae isconsinWae

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:19:16 -0500
Subject: Re: To Hell with Splits!

In a message dated 96-02-29 09:04:40 EST, you write:

I've learned from the RR and Defender folk, and they from us. Learning is
>what 
>it is all about, and frankly I'm getting just tired enough of this stupidity
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>point. The car's the star, and check your ego at the door!
>   aj"Damned annoyed..."r

Yeah, what he said...and if the list gets split I'm gonna sell my Defender
and buy an explorer!
(...that aughta take care of this funny business.)
'ol empty threat John 94 D90

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 29 Feb 96 12:53:24 MST
Subject: Re: Increased volume

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
Thanks Peter!!! I needed a good laugh!
      ||||||||||||||||||
     /                  \
    /                    \
   /     ___      ___     \
   |    /   \ __ /   \    |
   |____| * |/  \| * |____|
  /|    \___/    \___/    |\
 | |                      | |
  \|         (__)         |/
   |                      |
   \    \   //||\\   /    /
    \    \          /    /
     \    \________/    /
      \                /
       \_            _/
         \__________/

      ||||||||||||||||||          --   Riding in my "Series" LR's.
      ||||||||||||||||||         /
     /||||||||||||||||||\       /
    //                  \\     /
   //    ___      ___    \\   /
   /    /___\ __ /___\    \
   |____/ * \/__\/ * \____|
  /|____|_*_|/  \|_*_|____|\
 |/|    \___/    \___/    |\|
 |\|         (__)         |/|
  \|         (__)         |/
   |    \   //||\\   /    |
   \\   \\  //||\\  //   //
    \\   \\________//   //
     \\   \________/   //
      \\              //
       \\            //
         \\________//
          \\______//

 ..........................................
 .* * * * * * *                           .
 . * * * * * * *...........................
 .* * * * * * *                           .
 . * * * * * * *...........................
 .* * * * * * *                           .
 . * * * * * * *...........................
 .* * * * * * *                           .
 ..........................................
 .                                        .
 ..........................................
 .                                        .
 ..........................................
 .                                        .
 ..........................................
 ...

Phoenix Arizona, USA (Just a baby of a country!)

         "Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire,
        sincerely believe, and enthusiastically act upon ...
                must inevitably come to pass!"
	

#=======#         _________           We make a living by what we get,
|__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
| _|  |   |_ |}  \__/-\_|__/-\_|}
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:16:19 +0100
X-Sender: lopezba@mail.atnet.co.at
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Increased volume
Cc: lro@playground.sun.com
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

David - you wrote:

>P.S. With *only* around 100 messages a day, the digest goes by *much* too
>quickly!! Why, by the early afternoon, I've already browsed through the
>entire digest! Come-on people! I have a couple of hours left of work time
>to kill! Surely we can push the volume up past 200-300 posts!!!

Since I only read half the mail because of a lack of time I did not see the
second half of your message, so I don't know it was not to be taken
seriously. I resent being pushed to write more than I do already! The days
of slavery are over! I absolutely refuse to increase my output more than,
say, 25 percent. Let somebody else take up the slack!

However, in order to meet you half way, I am sending this to you directly,
with a copy to the list. A 100 % increase in quantity, and no decrease in
quality (for several reasons)!
Have a nice day
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:13:34 -0600 (CST)
From: ccray@showme.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: I'm back

On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Russell G. Dushin wrote:
welcome back, russ.!  we wondered where you were lurking.	
please, no stories about what is ailing nigel -- no need
to spread the disease...

Ray Harder                 Columbia, Missouri   314-882-2000
- 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental)  - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project)
- 69 SIIa 88 (parts)                   - 87 RR      (wife's)

------------------------------

From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@mail.biddeford.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:24:04 -0500
Subject: Fleet wide recall

It would appear that the most easily damaged component in Land Rover 
products is present in all variations and models and is loosely attached to 
the steering wheel.  I would guess Bill is getting a good chuckle from his 
"official" announcement. Sort of like two old people having sex:" Let's not 
do anything and just tell everyone we did."

Ron Franklin, just staying right where I am.

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:20:44 -0800
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: not Snubbed by a Plushmobile

Last weekend I flashed my lights at a Range Rover going the opposite 
direction, and received neither flash nor wave, but moments later he called 
me on channel 19 (Citizens Band in the U.S.) and we talked until the signal 
was disrupted by the mountains.  Much better than a wave, if you ask me.

Catch you on the coil side.
-Matt, '88 RR

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:26:11 -0800
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: tire step

Thanks to all who advised me about the tire step, I'm confident I should be 
able to find one in an auto parts store here in California, but I'll consult 
LROI if not.
-Matt

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:40:54 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: To Hell with Splits! -Reply

On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, William Owen wrote:

> Having ignored (deleted) the messages concerning the split as just the
> semi-annual banter, I was quite suprised when my reply to a disco
> related message on the LRO list was responded to by Terri Ann's
> message that I was on the wrong list.  

Me too William. I can quite understand some folks wanting separate lists 
but if they do they should go and set them up, rather than taking over the 
present one and booting everyone else off.

Cheers

John Brabyn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 16:40:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: An inside scoop/rumour about newer plushmobiles...

	Amazing what gets forwarded to me at times.  I recently received
	a message from a ldx source saying that it seems that the problems 
	with quality control at Rover are well-known to the company.  In 
	fact, it has gotten *much* worse as of late.  It seems that the 
	factory was so hot on setting production records for the year (break
	that 100,000 mark) that they turned the speed of the Disco line up.
	Way up for the latter part of 1995.... and probably beyond the 
	capabilities of the workers - hence, major quality control concerns.  
	Anyway, the line has been slowed back down to 'normal', but there 
	are a lot of those vehicles in the 'pipeline' right.  Oi!

	Take it for what its worth...

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 16:50:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Re[2]: To Hell with Splits!

     I agree with Alan Richer on this one..Everyone on this list has
benefited from each others input ,I've learned a lot from everyone here and
see no reason why there should be a split.
..we're all in this together no matter what we drive..

end the B/S and stop the split!!!!
my delete key works the same as yours!!!!!!

Rgds,
Steve Bradke   72 S lla 88
                      68 S lla 88

------------------------------

From: "Hugh Grierson" <Hugh_Grierson@trimble.co.nz>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:51:09 +1300
Subject: Re: Hand crank instead of winch

> BTW, we are thinking of providing six cylinder owners with a crank that is 
> offset at sixty degrees vs. the normal ninety degrees for the four cylinder.
> Peter Hirsch

A sound idea.  I hope that the people cranking their V8's do realise
they should be using a matched pair of left and right hand cranks.  
It's an easy mistake to make.  I guess Larry at Rovers North can 
supply them.  The funny thing down here in the antipodes is seeing
people try to crank their V8's without swapping their left and right 
cranks over.  The ignorance of some people never fails to amaze me.
-- 
Hugh Grierson   hugh_grierson@trimble.co.nz  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:58:38 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: To Hell with Splits!

On Thu, 29 Feb 1996 ASFCO@aol.com wrote:

>      I agree with Alan Richer on this one..Everyone on this list has
> benefited from each others input ,I've learned a lot from everyone here and
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> end the B/S and stop the split!!!!
> my delete key works the same as yours!!!!!!

I'm with you all the way Steve!

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 17:01:46
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: A REAL wavy bunch

For those forlorn individuals constantly being snubbed by the indescribably 
fatuous and the terminally clueless I offer a suggestion:

	Switch to VW Buses

In all the years I drove a bus I NEVER failed to get a hearty return wave. 

Bill Adams
3Dmentia computer animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington, MD 20895
301-949-9475

'66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel  ...all there

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 17:01:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Hand crank instead of winch

On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, Hugh Grierson wrote:

> It's an easy mistake to make.  I guess Larry at Rovers North can 
> supply them.  The funny thing down here in the antipodes is seeing
> people try to crank their V8's without swapping their left and right 
> cranks over.  The ignorance of some people never fails to amaze me.

	No wonder it wouldn't start!  I tried to start an ex-Kiwi
	Land Rover with the V8, and being a bright boy knew to turn the
	cranks in the opposite direction, but I never thought to
	swap the two cranks.  Have to try that next time the Land Rover
	shows up at a rally.

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: RE: Re[2]: To Hell with Splits! -Reply
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:05:57 -0800

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure someone will), but if we can look
past the brush fire that has been ensuing, I can only think of one
person that vocally (and inadvertently) promoted booting the so-called
"plushies" off the list. The other 900+ list members don't seem to care
much one way or the other, certainly not enough to become a
self-proclaimed net-policeperson about it. Rather the flames have been
fanned to the contrary, i.e. stay one big (happy?) list.

Are our Rovers running so smoothly and the ghost of Joe Lucas sleeping
so soundly that we have nothing else to discuss? If so, I propose we
exchange "lucky charm" tips instead!

That's it for me. 
I'm going to delete all e-mail with the word "List" or "split" in the
Subject line without reading (after this one of course :-)

Happier Trails.
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 22:00:17 UT
From: "Matthew Loxton" <mloxton@msn.com>
Subject: diesel power

All this talk about overkill makes me nervous.

I wanted to fit the 3.9 Isuzu 4BD1, but found that its not available in ZA 
anymore, Isuzu here uses an ADE diesel and the weight of this bugger seems 
incredible. This would mean beefing up the springs etc, and would also change 
the handling characteristics somewhat.

Then I came upon the Iveco 2.5 TD and posted many queries about it. Its 
lighter than the Tdi from LR, and has more guts.

The thought of adding the complication of a turbo goes against my grain, but 
there you are, take it or lump it. The thing that really worries me is that 
turbo seems fine for open road, but looks like it might be a right bastard in 
off-road work. Surely there is lag between wellie down and engine response? 
Also in game reserves where one is continually stopping and shutting down to 
watch something, wouldn't the turbo pack up after a while.
Lastly, if the turbo goes completely, is the engine just an ordinary 2.5L 
again or is it now a lump of ballast weight?

I ask all these odd questions because I have ordered a 1982 Rangie with Iveco 
2.5 TD, Borg-Warner T5 box, Disco xfer box. (call him "choice assorted")

Dixon, what do you think about the 6.2L diesels, surely the weight is a 
serious concern, and if you add all that torque, don't you then need the drive 
train and gearbox to be beefed up?

Matthew S-III (in for 947000Km service)
ZA		 Rangie 1982 (in for rebuild)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 21:39:47 UT
From: "Matthew Loxton" <mloxton@msn.com>
Subject: Wizard of OZ

William Terry wrote ..<snip>... I would get OZ stories about biltong and how 
to tune my Series carb...<snip>

NO William! Oz has Wattle's and Roo's, ZA has Biltong and Mandela. Both have 
Series, gotit?

Matthew
ZA

------------------------------

From: "Hugh Grierson" <Hugh_Grierson@trimble.co.nz>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 11:18:55 +1300
Subject: Re: Misfires at the light

Re the suggestion to check the coil.

My landy has been running pretty rough lately (is there any other
way?) but particularly poor idling.  It seems to run better when when
it's humid/raining, which symptoms someone else described for their
motorbike with a bad coil.  So this morning I clean all the carbon
and oily junk from around the top of the coil and whadayaknow it runs
much sweeter.  Thanks for the tip.

The coil was quite a mess due to a small electrical meltdown at
Christmas. "What's that smell" asks Monique when we're stopped at
Tekapo, 9 o'clock at night.  I shrug, the old girl always smells (no,
not her, the landy).  But then I notice several of the gauges are
pegged.  Oh shit.  So I lift the bonnet and find about a foot worth
of the harness running down the side of the engine has melted down
completely, and sparks are flying.  It's a few inches yet from the
fuel filter...  A knock on the door of the local garage to get some
more wire, and within about an hour I've rewired the alternator, oil
and temp gauges, tach, coil and condensor.  What bothers me is why 
no fuse or anything blew.  With the key off I think the only hot wire
should be to the alternator, but when I replaced the generator I
included some slow-blow wire intended to protect it. Hmm, maybe I
should check the rating on that link vs the rest of the alternator
circuit again...

Hugh
88" IIA, Holden 179 powered
-- 
Hugh Grierson   hugh_grierson@trimble.co.nz  

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 17:47:19 -0500
Subject: Re: tire step

Matt;  check with Northern Hydraulics..they used to have one in their
catalog, it is not in the current one  800-533-5545
BHMA carries a folding ladder that hooks onto the roof rack,Called the sport
step..800-FOR-BHMA   or 310-657-4800 around $60
Sporty's used have it also,check with 800 info for the number...

good luck
Rgds, Steve Bradke
 Series owner but I like 'em all

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:45:56 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: OVLR Birthday Party

>       You miss one aspect of your experience...

>       To be truthful, could you describe your sleeping arrangements?
>       :-)

What? What?!?  All I did was spread out my sleeping bag under the tarp by 
club trailer...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:45:51 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: New source for Land Rover parts on the Internet

> Have you been putting copyright notices on everything?  If yes you can 
> ask them to cease and remove your stuff or pay you a refirbishment of 
> your 88.  Otherwise you just put all that stuff in the public domain.

As I understand it, one need not explicitly copyright creative work for 
you to own the rights to it.  Displaying ones work (with or without CR) 
certainly does not put it in the public domain, any more so than demoing 
MAC OS puts that in the PD. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:45:49 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: New source for Land Rover parts on the Internet

>       A very interesting page.   Very interesting.  "Lot's of LR links"

Curiouser and curiouser...  It now lists "Courtesy of Lloyd"...  And the 
photos are credited to OVLR...

>       Ahh, the Web at work.  Just snag any image that you can find on 
> the web and use it for an advertisement to hawk your wares.  I wonder 

If these are your photos (or even OVLR's), it seems to me that you 
deserve compensation for their use in a business advertisement.  Now, as 
of today 2/28, there were 322 accesses since 2/17 (according to the page 
itself).  That's a lot of business illegally taking advantage of your 
creative and professional efforts, without recompense.  Even if they take 
the pictures off, the damage has already been done.  I think you've got 
quite a case, Ben.

btw, do ya think this could BNWLRC?  Also, there is *no* phone or address 
listed on the page...

Hmmm...  It also occurs to me that there are laws concerning what a 
business can say...   I would think that if they say their parent company 
has been working with LR's since 1950, etc. they probably ought to have 
been...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:45:54 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Seen on TV last night.....

> A 109 pickup, with a VERY large chain attached to its pintle hitch, is

> stating "This is Australian for dentist." (Remind me never to get a

Actually, I think it's more like "'ow to speak ozstryelyan: Dentist. [LR 
footage]  Beer. [ pic of Fosters]"  I think the intent is "Real men 
(Aussies) pull out a loose tooth with a LR.  Real men drink fosters."  So 
that if you want to be macho (Macho, macho man, I want to be a macho 
man...) you should drink Fosters, instead of one o' them there sissy 
beers like Budwhiner.  

They've also had "Limo" (A fully kitted out for safari 110"), Guppy (Big 
Shark), Toothpick (Big bowie, ala Crocodile Dundee).  

> All I could think of was the ease with which Foster's had just undone 
> years of  work by the Tourist Board. 

I think the aussies have always played up their 
rugged-adventure-crocodile-dundee image for tourists.  This is trying to 
do the same.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: To Heaven with Splits
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 18:10:44 EST

> Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure someone will), but if we can look
> past the brush fire that has been ensuing, I can only think of one
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> self-proclaimed net-policeperson about it. Rather the flames have been
> fanned to the contrary, i.e. stay one big (happy?) list.

You are wrong.  And nobody is booting plushies off the list. TeA, who makes
a damned good list cop (she even keeps *me* in line now and then), merely 
suggested that you post your Disco questions to the proper list where it
will recieve appropiate readership.  (As for the "get outa my sandbox"
comment, well.....you weren't supposed to see that.)

I've come *back* to this list ONLY because I heard that there was a split.
I've envisioned that MAYBE, and once AGAIN, there can be a forum for series
Rover owners and their troubles and tribulations.  No car alarms, no
300 W stereos, no Grey Poupon holder between the seats, no leather interiors,
no pesky ignition control units, no auto adjustable suspension, no rear
kiddy seats, no complaints about the $8,000 repair bill for a 5 mph front
impact, no boasting about the Beluga Black paint job, no "my dealer sucks
worse than yours does", no lights flicking on and off three times followed
by a beep, etc.  I wanna hear about canvas water bags strapped 
over the breakfast and how efficiently that dashboard opened that case of 
empties over there-do you? Didn't think so.

I don't give a friggin' flick about RR/Disco talk.  Never did, never will.
Please don't be offended, but it was this that chased me away from this 
list, along with many many other people (series-types).  Oh yes,
there are other series-mostly related lists about, but frankly, since they
typically do not involve the whole world there are limitations......(hey,
I can't amuse-or offend (Oh my) someone down under and up over at the same 
time anymore, not to mention getting some right-on solid advice on where
to find Rovers and their folk when I take a vaca to far and away places). 

There is absolutely no *good* reason why there cannot be two separate lists,
and why plusshies and leafers cannot subscribe to both lists.  Really not 
that hard to do (although it is perhaps a quantum leap over mastering the
delete key).....and you'd never notice the difference.  Here's a hint for 
plushies, though.....put a SI 107 or 86 in your .sig and you'll get all 
the respect that you (think you) deserve.  (But if you want a wave you'd
best get some dents first, or let your wife do the driving while you sit
*in back*.)

The ONLY reason I can see why the lists should not be split is that we
can no longer have this semi-annual arguement (on why we should or should
not split the list).  However, we could periodically suggest merging the
lists and have it anyway.  Ah, the fun never ceases.

> Are our Rovers running so smoothly and the ghost of Joe Lucas sleeping
> so soundly that we have nothing else to discuss? If so, I propose we
> exchange "lucky charm" tips instead!

I'll let Nigel know you're after one.  Don't be suprised if your rig starts
listing to port, though.

heavily,
rd/nige ('60 SII 88, character dents, needs tyres and paint-naw fuggit...)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 16:39:15 PST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: not Snubbed by a Plushmobile

Last weekend I flashed my lights at a Range Rover ...snip... and we talked until
the signal 
was disrupted by the mountains.  Much better than a wave, if you ask me.

Catch you on the coil side.
-Matt, '88 RR

hey, that's neat...The only time I don't get snubbed is when they wave first. I 
got a REAL enthusiastic flash of lights/honk of horn/wave of both occupants 
hands out the window greeting from a mud covered marroon Disco with AZ plates, 
on Rt 83 in Baltimore. Is this person on the list? it was several months ago. 

Dave 
Pastel green 88

------------------------------

From: SACME@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:36:48 -0500
Subject:  Re: Flimsy Discos 

On Wed, 28 Feb, Roy Wassili said:
(message truncated by DS)
QUOTE 
The dummies were wearing safty-belts. But real people whould have 
died due to severe ruptures of internal organs.

So "flimsy cars" seem to absorb lots of energy while crashing and 
the driver, and passengers, have a bigger change to survive. 

So IMO I'd rather be the though guy in a flimsy car, instead of a 
sissy in a though car ;-)
UNQUOTE

Roy, IMO you have made a very important point and it sure jolted my thinking
about what "tough" really means.   I can't think of anything in the front end
of my Series III that could be termed a deliberate "crumple" zone that would
modulate the cars and my deceleration in a front-ender.  Couple that with no
air bag and 24-year old somewhat frayed seat belts, and I think a case can be
made for taking advantage of a very low weekend rate on a modern car for my
next trip to, in and around Boston.  I'll save the Series III for Maine-local
use only and special occassions, such as rallys. Besides, I only got 14.7
miles per gallon on the last Boston trip - 60-65 mph even with an overdrive
really sucks up the gas - and the earplugs hurt after awhile.

Happy Rovering...and DON'T run into anything! 

Doug (waves to all Solihull products) Scott
2 ea. Series III and charter member of the BB

------------------------------

From: SACME@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:36:10 -0500
Subject: Waving and Splitting the List

Waving to (all) Birmabright lumps: This is no time to take unnecessary risks
- tomorrow I buy four of those foam hands that are on springs and "wave"
(they should be positively frantic on the combination of Series III
suspension and Maine frost heave!) - one for each side.  Ain't nobody gonna
catch "me" not waving.

Splitting the list means a split personality!:  No, no, NO!!  I find I can
fly through the list, if I'm in a hurry, with the up or down scroll buttons,
stopping only on those items which interest me, so mere length is no big
deal.   Even though I own only a couple of Series III's, I am very interested
in what the "children and grandchildren" are doing, suffering, enjoying, etc,
even if I don't always understand it.  I think the overall humor quotient
will drop like a rock with a split, humor that is often at its best when we
are laughing at ourselves and the foibles of the lumps we love and curse.
 Finally, I guess I have a vested (in the emotional sense, not monetary)
interest in seeing the Birmabright Brotherhood grow and prosper, and it can
only do so if it has the sheer numbers and geographic dispersion that only
the INCLUSION OF ALL Solihull products can bring. (Remember, a "BB response"
doesn't always have to be a complete engine overhaul.  It can be something as
simple as making a phone available or taking the stranded driver and/or
family to a local motel - actions that don't require having specific
mechanical knowledge of the 410Tdi V-24 radial diesel, but that can be
incredibly welcome when needed.)

I don't know how "Majordomo" works.  Is it all done automatically?  Is there
a way that we can put a header of some sort in, for example, the subject
line, so that the messages get grouped into "threads" according to subject,
or some variant thereof?  Can the "Majordomo" computer be taught to recognize
these somehow?  I would like to see discussion of what, if anything,  can be
done within the present list, even if it would take some discipline and
cooperation on our parts to make it work.

Doug (Wavin', Ravin', Maniac) Scott
(for out-o-staters and out-o-countryers, "Maniac" is what we call ourselves
here in Maine, but don't YOU call us that...unless it's with a small "m")

  

 

 

------------------------------

From: "Hugh Grierson" <Hugh_Grierson@trimble.co.nz>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 12:51:39 +1300
Subject: Re: not Snubbed by a Plushmobile

Various people write from time to time:
> Is this person on the list?

Maybe it's time for a "land-rover.team.net" bumper sticker?
-- 
Hugh Grierson   hugh_grierson@trimble.co.nz  

------------------------------

From: AKBLACKLEY@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:57:33 -0500
Subject: Jerry cans 

The jerry can I ordered Monday came today. Good& bad news. Good: no rust,
marked 1993, so assume is new, seal is excellent. Bad: Its Russian, and
painted gun metal gray. The spout is as advertised, and will fit my other
(also Russki) can. I compared my old can to the original item carried on a
WWII VW Kubelwagon that was on the BRLRC May Day in 1995 - the Russkis make
an exact copy. So I keep it and paint it. Dosvidoniye - Tovarich Andre
Andrevich Blackley

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 16:03:47 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: To Heaven with Splits

Crumbs -- at least we know where you stand Russell! I can understand your
laudable lack of interest in CD players and electric seat switches, and
there's nothing at all wrong in wanting to confine your email load to
topics solely relevant to Series vehicles. Bb=ut But this list is
called "LRO" meaning Land Rover Owner. Last time I looked there was still
a Land Rover badge on my grille. There is still a company called Land
Rover, and it doesn't manufacture Series vehicles any more. If you want a
Series Owner list, why not form one under a suitable name? 

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Russell G. Dushin wrote:

> > Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure someone will), but if we can look
> > past the brush fire that has been ensuing, I can only think of one
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 58 lines)]
> heavily,
> rd/nige ('60 SII 88, character dents, needs tyres and paint-naw fuggit...)

------------------------------

Date: 	Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:07:02 -0400
From: Tebbin Salvesen <ae733@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Subject: so long

I dont use listservs to  often and now I know why! Thanks to all who have 
had good suggestions and comments. To the rest of the TA types   GET A LIFE!
I can get my RANGE ROVER anywhere you can get your series rover I know 
cause ive had both. I'll keep the RANGE ROVER thanks I like heaters, 
defrosters, wipers, air conditioning and the ability to go over 50 mph. 
Im outa here--------

------------------------------

From: smitha@mail.CandW.lc
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:14:58 -0500
Subject: Re: diesel power

On Thu, 29 Feb 96, "Matthew Loxton" <mloxton@msn.com> wrote:

>Also in game reserves where one is continually stopping and shutting down 
to 
>watch something, wouldn't the turbo pack up after a while.

I would love to be taking my Tdi when I go back to Zim to see the folks and 
photograph wildlife later this year. In the areas where one is anticipating 
shutting down you are usually going slowly anyway, and the turbo isn't 
going to be kicking in and heating up. Plus the Tdi does a great job of 
idling along in a range of gears without needing any pedal application.
Your RR is obviously heavier than my 90 so perhaps the 300Tdi isn't enough. 
However, the 90 isn't  exactly light and I find that the available *guts* 
are considerable, and far more than I need.  LRO International carried an 
article that complained that the engine was inadequate to the RR task but 
it transpired that it was from a test in France, with unlimited autoroute 
speeds, and trying to accelerate from 80 uphill. Concerning the *turbo lag* 
in off-road situations, the turbo input is generally the last thing you 
want. In practice the lag is very brief and you have to adapt to it only in 
conditions like overtaking at speed. Even then I find that the lag lasts 
about as long as saying *hear the turbo whine*.
In your position I'd rent one for a day.
Alles van die beste
Allan Smith
300Tdi 90   el Galeon
St. Lucia

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 16:14:26 -0700
From: Slade@sisna.com (Michael Slade)
Subject: Re: not Snubbed by a Plushmobile

Hugh offers to get printed for all of us...

>Maybe it's time for a "land-rover.team.net" bumper sticker?
>--
>Hugh Grierson   hugh_grierson@trimble.co.nz

Let us all know when they're ready!

Michael
slade@sisna.com
'70 109 Station Wagon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:55:11 -0500
From: veal@execulink.com (Tim Veal)
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

>Does anyone out there know the dwell angle to set the points on the Land 
>Rover?  I asked this once before but didn't receive an answer.  It must 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>     i THINK IT'S 60 degrees. 
>     Dave"dwell schmell" B.

Well.... this might sound funny, but I always set my Volkswagen Bug at 50
degrees... it's 4 cylinder.... 

But you don't really need all that electrosmic garble to tune a rover.  Just
patience.  Set the points by gap.  Adjust the valves, check the mixture and
time it with a stroboscopic light.  You need the light and an RPM guage....
and a good ear.  I've got a dwell meter too.... but I don't use it on the
rover.  Once you get good at it it just goes by *feel* and you can get it
real nice.  

Sorry I don't have a number for you.  I'll try to remember to measure mine
next tune up time.... and I'll post it here.

Tim Veal

PS- anyone try the International Scout Holley carb conversion yet?  I'm
looking for one of those right now... 

"What a long, strange trip it's been..."
                                                             Garcia, 1970.

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: RE: Seen on TV last night.....
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 16:18:36 -0800

>Actually, I think it's more like "'ow to speak ozstryelyan: Dentist.
>[LR 
>footage]  Beer. [ pic of Fosters]"  I think the intent is "Real men 
>(Aussies) pull out a loose tooth with a LR.  Real men drink fosters."  
Granted, I'm not an Aussie, but if it were me, I'd drink the Fosters (in
large quantities, no doubt) before chaining my tooth to the back of a
109.
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/...and don't give me no s**t for it

>Actually, I think it's more like "'ow to speak ozstryelyan: Dentist.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 11:59:54 EST
From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben)
Subject: v8motor to LT95 question

Will a '91 RR 3.9 v8 mate to a LT95 in a Stage1-110 ?
1. bellhousing/starter (I am guessing yes)
2. crank pilot bushing (guessing no, but will fit w/o machining)
3. motor mounts (guessing yes)
4. flywheel bolt pattern (guessing yes)
BTW, a $-saving bonus for you'all, my friends: didja know that GM 10-spline
clutch fits on the tranny input shaft and flywheel bolt pattern?  Imagine that :)
Jan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 17:32:18 -0800
From: smthengr@sirius.com (Jeff Smith)
Subject: Re: not Snubbed by a Plushmobile

>Various people write from time to time:
>> Is this person on the list?
>Maybe it's time for a "land-rover.team.net" bumper sticker?
>-- 

On EuroMoto Motorcycle list the current sysop designed and made T-shirts
with the list address and the names of all european marques. They are
internationally recognized amongst the internet/motorcycle enthusiasts. He
sold them to the list with proceeds going to a motorcycle museum. If a Land
Rover tee shirt (or bumper sticker) were made, would there have to be a
series style shirt and a separate style for plushies?  :^) Would a plushie
ever adhere a sticker other than a residential parking permit to their
bumper :^))
Regards,

Jeff Smith. S.E.
email: smthengr@sirius.com

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:41:34 -0500
Subject: Re: UK Readers:Car Pre Heaters

In a message dated 96-02-29 14:04:19 EST, you write:

I was looking through  an old copy of Car Design and Technology
>when I came across an engine pre heater from 
>Webasto Thermosystems (UK).  It looks like an engine bay
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>plumbed into the fuel system and burns the existing car
>fuel.

Clinton, Espar (ebersprecker sp??) heaters from germany have similar
features.  I have worked with the company and their product in a previous
job.  I think their product and applications are very interesting, which is
why they are always on the tip  of my tounge, I don/t own stock or sell
'em...but I sure want one.  They are rather expensive though.  They can be
plumbed into the stock cooling system to circulate and heat coolant to keep
engine at warm temp, all on about 2 amps continuous draw from battery.  Also,
are plumbed into fuel line for either diesel/kerosene or petrol.  Can be put
on a timer or thermostat for auto operation.
JOhn, wisconsin. d90

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:41:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Snubbed by a ...

In a message dated 96-02-29 13:21:45 EST, you write:
To sum up:
>2 snubs + 1 direct insult = confused D90.
>oh well.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>Bob K.
>AA Yellow D90 #2721. 

Congrats on the D90 Bob!  Even a yellow one!  BTW, when you see the kid with
the baseball hat on backwards in the jacked up ford caught between two trees,
smile and wave as you trail on by, this promotes the good hearted feelings of
Roverdom. (snicker, snicker...)

Johnny, with a lil' red wagon.

------------------------------

From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: HELLO WAKEY WAKEY...
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 11:16:12 +1030 (CDT)

YES I'M SHOUTING... I'M  SERIOUSLY PISSED OFF... ARRGGGHHHHHH   PING. 
1,2,3,4,5........ 100,101.......400,......648,.....872,.....998,999,1000.

AH thats a little better.  Ok this message is going to both the LRO and 
RRO lists (hey I subscribe to both and can recall when the LRO list had 
less than 50 of us and the RRO list had 5, this does not make me better, 
but at least I know a little of the history)

A few things that are really starting to get to me.

1. I strongly doubt that Bill C, has any desire to keep the LRO list for 
series cars only, Sh*t look at his .sig file he ownes "both" types of 
land rover.  Bill is the lists maintainer, he doesnt control what goes in 
it or who subscribes to what.  He is long suffering and deserves a lot 
more thanks than he ever gets.  (OK Bill, if i'm off base jump on me now...)

2. The recently named "plushmobile ghetto" is not new...  It has been 
around for over 5 months. I understand it was formed to provide a forum for 
the discussion of peculiarly Rangie/Disco/V8/etc type questions. Like the 
plethora of CD changer type questions that pissed so many people on the 
LRO list off.  RRO *is* the appropriate forum for this type of question, 
it is highly vehicle specific, and of *no* interest to non CD equiped 
vehicles.   
If you have recently subscribed to RRO welcome, lets use it for its 
intended purpose, not for bitching about being driven off the main list. 
I hope the RRO list will now go from strength to strength, and develop 
the camaraderie once so prevelant on the LRO list.

3. I dont believe that the LRO list should be purely series, BUT, there is 
no need for that list to be swamped by discussions on CD changers, ECU 
modules and electric leather seats.  Post questions and messages to the 
appropriate group, you will upset less people and probably get a better 
and possible more accurate answer.
Posting questions to inappropriate groups drives off a lot of very 
knowledgable people to local groups.  If this can be reduced some may 
come back and we will *all* benefit.

BTW welcome back Russ, hope Nigel is well, I cant afford him to get sick
at the moment :-)  Please stay around, we (well at least I) do miss you.

4. If you dont understand the last line then hang around the LRO list, 
this list has a history, and that is part of what makes it great and 
gives it so much strength.

5. Get to know your list personalities, we have many.  
To those recently chastised by TeA, you aint the first. Personally I'm 
glad to see "mum" back and active on the list, though i'm sure to get a 
few personal "messages" from her (g).

If you dont know about shipfitter's disease, nigel's disease, Taylor, the 
great race, or what beer a proper land rover owner should drink, listen 
and learn, You'll make a lot of friends....

Oh and for the record *everyone* knows that real OZ LRO's only drink 
Coopers Ale (ok pale ale, brown ale and extra stout too). We *Never* 
drink Fo***rs by choice.  (sorry mum, I had too...)

Ok I feel better now, lets get back to "normal" LRO and RRO programming

cheers

P.S> I have a new mailer too ande the spl cheker doosnt wroc.
-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:46:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Lorri Paustian <lorri@sound.net>
Subject: Disco Crash Info

>The web page at http://www.sofcom.com.au/4WD/A/Safety3.html shows the
>while I wouldn't want to play crash-test-dummy and find out for myself,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>then spend time in the hospital because I absorbed the impact. But I'm
>funny that way, I suppose :-)

When we were down in Dallas picking up our new D90 SW, Land Rover Dallas had
a LaRuta Maya Disco there which had been involved in a head-on.  All things
considered, it was in *very* good condition.  In fact, I was quite impressed
with how well the vehicle held up. 
 
Lorri Paustian, Flatland Rover Society
Lenexa, Kansas
'95 Conistan Green Discovery
'95 Arles Blue D90 SW

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:47:58
From: CarDoctor@gnn.com (Robert Davis)
Subject: Bens or VW diesel conversions???

Hi All,
  I have been reading with interest all of the email about LR diesel power.
 have driven diesel cars for 15 years however I don't have one now...
In the AW is an AD for a Mercedes 300D engine with adapter. 
   This is the question:  Has anyone driven this conversion? & how good is 
this conversion really?   I have considered converting to the VW diesel 
engine used in Volvo's ( Available here in the US)  Has this been a common 
conversion for LR owners??
   
 Thanks for the info.
 
 Rob Davis_chicago

------------------------------

From: "Tom Walsh" <tomw@netcom.com>
Date:          Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:22:41 +0000
Subject:       Not a Plushmobile Ranting & Raving

Snip

> I really think defenders belong in both lists and I hope all Defender owners
> will join both lists  and contribute to the plushie list for drive train &
> running gear stuff and the series list for body and soul.
> TeriAnn

WARNING! POINT OF VIEW and verbose rambling to follow :)

When I bought My Landrover ( 1st week of 1995 ) I bought it for 
several reasons:

1) It was different from the mass produced volume of other vehicle out there ( 
   I always do that! )( this is similar to how series people feel in 
   one sense I presume )

2) I had owned ( Actually bought it for an ex significant other in 1991 ) 
   a ford explorer and felt it was to much like a station wagon, my 
   other car was a limited production german thing ( buck that damn 
   trend! )

3) I had been four wheeling in one sense or another since the late 
   1970's with various limited slip diff vehicles I was able to 
   modify for the task at hand ( Ever gone four wheelin in a 1972 
  lifted datsun 510, with limited slip, that could go almost any where? 
  ( and hey if it got stuck your buddies got out and MOVED IT by hand! 
   its all I could afford in high school, so I made do with it )

4) I felt the Discovery met my needs of being an extremely capable 
   off road vehicle with a fine heritage of proven design to back it 
   up, with some safety built in ( my wifes concern, phooey to date 
   line. If I sse any cement barriers cruising the highways, I'll 
   give em leeway, else wise I wouldn't want to get hit by a Disco if I 
   was a car ( myne weigh at least 5500 lbs, simple physiscs prevail! 
   ) )

5) I didn't purchase a defender becuase I needed a vehicle to fill 
   both the comuter aspect and the off road aspect. ( PS: I love 
   defenders, don't get me wrong, it just didn't work for me at the time 
   ( hey at some point I'd like a defender or series vehicle but its 
   extra $$$ , so I had to make do! ) )

Now TeriAnn and others are telling me I am yuppie scum and don't 
deserve to be in their group, well:

I don't use the discovery to ferry groceries, kids, pets or antiques 
( and power to those who do, live and let live! )

I go off-road as often as I can find a road ( or not-a-road :) that allows it! ( In fact 
its one of my goals when I'm out and about )

I have a fairly complete and comprehensive set of tools/recovery 
equiptment ( wich I try to use! ) and emergency survival stuff 
crammed into the back of the Disco such that it would sink any normal 
vehicle.

I customize my vehicle to meet my needs. ( exterior mounted high lift 
jack ( yes! on a Disco ), winch, ARB Winch Bar, heavy duty 
suspension, upgraded traction tires and a bunch more.... ) This is 
what you do isn't it Terri-Ann, your vehicle is a "Roving" project 
just like myne. I'm trying to create a vehicle I can take anywhere 
and do anthing with, Hey So I have a tent on top, and don't sleep 
inside! Big deal ( PS: I've even sensed you having an indifference to 
my tent top cus its not a brown church, hey well excuse me! it works 
for me! :)

YOU KNOW WHY I DO IT ( its not to be trendy Teri-ann! most people have 
this look of fear/amazement when my rig pulls in all muddy and 
covered with Land Rover Heritage! )

Its becuase thats how I wanna live!

I beleive this is similar to Series Owners views and beliefs!

I strive to do my own work ( Hey it would be damn nice if it was as 
easy to do work on the Disco as the series, but its not! so give us 
some damn credit! )

Yes ther are some caviar eating, non-hand waving, car washing folks 
out there! but live and let live! ( PS I like cavier and I can pull a 
chevy 350 block! )

Why is a Defender any better than this! ( why are you willing to let 
them post on the list? ) ( PS: don't bother sending the boiler plate! 
( and power to those who do, live and let live! )

It seems on our last outing together the limiting factor of where a
vehicle could go was more the mindset of the owners rather than 
wich kind of Land Rover each was driving if you get my drift!

So take a chill pill! and lets continue the Land Rover heritage. Its 
more than what kind of vehicle you drive, its how you think and what 
you do that counts!

Tomw, Amen, flame me if you feel justified!
---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*
                       Fluent Networks
             "Intelligent Networking Solutions"
Tom Walsh
tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com
95 LR Disco "The Green Monster"
#include <std_disclaim.h>
*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: Welcome to land-rover-owner
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 16:54:00 -0800

This is an excerpt from the "welcome" message I got from the "major"
when I subscribed.
>I guess this should be updated to reflect the current mood.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 39 lines)]
>for the street, some for racing, fully prepared for Comp. Safari
>or Cross Country Vehicle trials.
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: To Heaven with Splits
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 20:03:13 EST

> Crumbs -- at least we know where you stand Russell!

Like you didn't know it all along???

> called "LRO" meaning Land Rover Owner. Last time I looked there was still
> a Land Rover badge on my grille. There is still a company called Land
> Rover, and it doesn't manufacture Series vehicles any more. If you want a
> Series Owner list, why not form one under a suitable name? 

And the last time I read a Defender promo it said I was riding in a Defender
since birth! NOT! My Land Rover is about as much alike your Defender as
an MG TC is to a MGB.  All they share in common is a bloody name.

Look, folks, it *isn't* just the content.....or the volume.  There are two 
different "heads" about here, with some degree of overlap.  For those in
the bisector, subscribe to both.  Simple as that and no big deal.

Years ago, well before the Defender hit the US market and well well before
we had the Disco, this list was comprised of almost exclusively series
rover owners.  There was a flavor and a character to the list that wasn't at
all unlike the combined taste of 90 wt. and horse manure.  It was great
and we all loved it.

Then came the D110/D90 Brigade.  They were welcomed.  Then the Discos arrived
on this side of the pond and their owners were welcomed, too.  But the flavor
changed drastically.  TONS of Nutrasweet was added.  It began to taste like
a combination of fake sugar, 90 wt., and horse manure.  It was good, but
not everybody liked it.

LOTS of series folks have left this list.  Almost everyone I communicated with
said they were fed up with alot of newer stuff (not to mention the constant
bickering between the forces of new and old) and that the list just wasn't the
same anymore.  Had they the stamina to stick it out, the list probably would 
have split long long ago.  But series types are outnumbered now and there are
fewer every day........

What splitting the list *might* do is attract those that left (or their
"type") and restore some of the "character" that the list used to enjoy.
If you like it, fine, subscribe.  If you don't, seeya....just like
that other guy.

I'll even hold the door open for ya,
rd/nige

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 17:08:57 -0800
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: plushmobile ghetto - a clarification

OK, I promise this will be the last one from me on this topic!

When I wrote:

I fear that the list isn't, and never was a democracy. We have to thank
Bill Caloccia for maintaining it, and it seems he would prefer only
Series owners on the land-rover-owner list. Also, it seems that if any of
us persist in posting to land-rover-owner, we'll get told off...

I actually meant to thank Bill for his energy and for the service he's 
done for everyone on *all* the lists. Yeah, I received some quite 
unpleasant criticism, but not from Bill. It seems I may have been rather 
hasty in assuming that we Discovery owners were being dissed. I was 
just struck by the suddenness of the split in the lists and the reaction 
I got when I posted to the "wrong" one.

-- 
Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 beluga black Discovery V8i

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: Welcome to Land-Rover-Owner
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 17:08:02 -0800

Let me try this again...
Here is some of the text of the Welcome message I received when I
subscribed to the Land-Rover-Owner list.
Apparantly this is no longer the case. If so it should be updated with a
pointer on how to subscribe to the "appropriate" list thereby sparing
the unsuspecting new Disco owners from the flames of the current list
residents.

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

What is the List?

The largest group of Land Rover Owners anywhere in daily communicaitons.

The Land Rover Owner or LRO mailing list is for those people who
are naturally interested in these legendary British four wheel
drive vehicles.

In the daily mail from the list, you'll hear tales of off-road
mis-adventures, as well as occasional competition news and reviews,
not to mention discussion on solving various sorts of mechanical
problems.

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Who Subscribes to the list?

Presently there are hundreds of men and women, most of whom own
one or more Land Rovers, as well as people who are considering
acquiring one or are otherwise interested in the marque.

The Solihull designed vehicles owned by subscribers include various
Series vehicles: from the earliest 80"Series I, through the
ever-popular Series II or IIa, and Series III vehicles upto and
including the current production Defender 90 & 110, Discovery, and
Range Rover models.  Many people own ex-military versions, including
the light weight and the huge 101" Forward Control.

Of course we can't forget those, who in the quest for speed or
other qualities have created their very own hybrid Rover.  Some
for the street, some for racing, fully prepared for Comp. Safari
or Cross Country Vehicle trials.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 01:19:28 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Lists

John Brabyn wrote:
> I think this proposal from William Terry, or something like it, is the
> best compromise for the splittage of the list if the boneshakers are
> determined to eject the plushies.

I must say that I have not seen any general evidence that the 
boneshakers are determined to eject the plushies. Certainly there are 
loud noises from one or two people, but, as usual in these matters, 
excessive noise from a few can often be taken to represent the feeling 
of the majority. Post over the last two or three days seems to be 
showing how the quiet majority feel about the list split. It is well 
known that if the majority is happy, they will say nothing. This is 
often used to advantage by the vociferous minority to press their case. 
This seems to have happened with a sudden split being announced with no 
warning.
So if I want advice about fitting a V8 to my SIII do I write to the 
Series list, or do I write to the RR list saying I intend to fit a SIII 
to a V8?
Crazy. As someone else said, Land Rovers have a common heritage and 
common engineering, We all learn from each other and are inerested in 
each other's vehicles. Hell, even commercial enterprise such as Land 
Rover Owner International have managed to cover all models without 
complaint.
Perhaps people on this list will start pressing for Billing (UK) Show to 
be divided up into three separate fields, with separate tickets for each 
section. I think not.
This is long, but the delete key, as we all say, is but 3 inches away.

-- 
David Olley
.....................................................................................
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 29 Feb 96 20:33:50 EST
Subject: Re: Seen on TV last night.....

>I think the intent is "Real men 
>(Aussies) pull out a loose tooth with a LR.  Real men drink fosters."  So 
>that if you want to be macho (Macho, macho man, I want to be a macho 
>man...) you should drink Fosters, instead of one o' them there sissy 
>beers like Budwhiner.  

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHhhhhhhh...

NEVER will I associate with overcarbonated swill like that! Fosters is damned 
close, in my not-humble opinion.

REAL men drink Guinness! (or home-brewed equivalents).

They've also had "Limo" (A fully kitted out for safari 110"), Guppy (Big 
Shark), Toothpick (Big bowie, ala Crocodile Dundee).  

>> All I could think of was the ease with which Foster's had just undone 
>> years of  work by the Tourist Board. 
>I think the aussies have always played up their 
>rugged-adventure-crocodile-dundee image for tourists.  This is trying to 
>do the same.

If they can't manage to come up with either decent medical help or beer, they 
blew it for me anyway.....8*)

   aj"I know it's not Rover-related"r

------------------------------

From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Oz beer....
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 12:34:05 +1030 (CDT)

Alan "I live dangerously" Richer writes:
> If they can't manage to come up with either decent medical help or beer, they 
> blew it for me anyway.....8*)

Hey whoa thems fighting words pardner....

Whats wrong with the Royal Flying Doctor Service outback medical help ?
Ok I'm biased but there cant be too many countries where you can get 
*emergency* medical help 24hr a day even if you are over 1000km from the 
nearest doctor.  Sure it aint ideal, but these guys make house (and shed 
and roadside) calls.  In some ways the RFDS (and NT Aero Med) provide a 
better service to truely remote communities than is available in some of 
the larger centres.

I'd be interested to know what problems you've come across..

As for the beer, come on Al you've been around long enough, you should 
know that *real* LRO, only drink Coopers.....  Darn Guinness just takes too 
long to pour :-(

Cheers

-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

From: AKBLACKLEY@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 21:07:46 -0500
Subject: List Split

Since I am a Digest subscriber at this point I wont comment on the list
split. I hope that the  postings from both lists will continue to be combined
in the LRO Digest. I have greatly enjoyed the comment and opinions of all
LAND ROVER product owners, no matter which model they happen to own, or
aspire to own. My semi-plush 83 RR has got all the features one got from a
Wagoneer in 1963 but I do miss the ability to roll the top (hood) up and
remove the side windows like on my old SIIA. I plan to acquire another as a
project a soon as I can. Hey wait - my RR got a hole in the bumper too so can
I stay, pleeze, huh pleeze.  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:10:44 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: VW diesel conversions???

On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Robert Davis wrote:

> Hi All,
>   I have been reading with interest all of the email about LR diesel power.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> engine used in Volvo's ( Available here in the US)  Has this been a common 
> conversion for LR owners??

Hi Rob,

Steve Denis, of NOT-A-JEEP fame and formerly on this list, had talked 
about this conversion at one point.  I don't know how to get in touch 
with him now (somebody said he'd moved)  Maybe somebody left on the list 
might know how to reach him.

I'd think that yopu'd want to start with a 6 cylinder vehicle to minimize 
the problems of converting from a 4 cylinder configuration.

BTW, I am in the process of rebuilding a Volvo/VW diesel engine and am 
looking for alternative sources of good quality parts.  I'll need 
pistons and bearings.  The rest of it is OK, but the costs are a killer.  
I've been quoted almost $300 for the gaskets sets alone.  Anybody got any 
sources to recommend?

Rgds,

Walt          * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover              * 
              * Davis, California       | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

From: "Hugh Grierson" <Hugh_Grierson@trimble.co.nz>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 14:57:48 +1300
Subject: Re: not Snubbed by a Plushmobile

> If a Land
> Rover tee shirt (or bumper sticker) were made, would there have to be a
> series style shirt and a separate style for plushies?  :^)

Ah, _if_ I was to do a bumper sticker (and that's a real big IF), 
then I'd probably use 'land-rover.team.net', so all 
playground^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H landrover lists would be covered.
After all, it's not intended to be divisive, nor is it an advertisement
for the list address, it's more like a not-so-secret secret handshake.

The trick is making it distinctive enough to be recognisable at 85mph
(plushies) and/or 10Hz (boneshakers).

> Would a plushie
> ever adhere a sticker other than a residential parking permit to their
> bumper :^))

There's a problem.  And a true landrover, series or otherwise, should 
be covered with too much mud to see the sticker.
-- 
Hugh Grierson   hugh_grierson@trimble.co.nz  

------------------------------

From: smitha@mail.CandW.lc
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:37:17 -0500
Subject: The ant hijack

Hi all, 
For those of you who responded that the case of the self-drive 90 was a 
fabrication, the owner of the rusty galvanized sheet fence now wants to 
discuss compensation for the dent in the rusty galvanized sheet. I can only 
imagine what it looked like, but some time between 9 and noon a locked and 
unoccupied Defender cranked up and rammed the first thing it encountered. 
How I wish it was all made up! But no, the ants did provide a circuit to 
the starter motor and I am still afraid that it suffered damage.
Would anyone really bother to make up something like that?
Allan Smith
300Tdi   el Galeon
St. Lucia

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:47:42 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Tubes, etc.

Walt wrote:
>I've been running radial-type tubes in nominally tubeless tires for 
>many years with no know problem.

And Dixon wrote:
>if you do (use bias-ply tubes in radials) tube life is greatly reduced.

Indeed...like the *first* time you use the Interstate.  Years ago when I had 
all four tires recapped, the shop ran out of radial tubes and installed one 
with a 6.00 X 16 tube - and a bias ply one at that - in a 7.50 X 16 tire.  
It blew the very first time it got to 60 mph.  Needless to say, the shop 
promptly paid for a new tire....

The problem is that regular tubes intended for bias ply tires can't handle 
the extra heat generated by the sidewall flex of the radials.  Radial tubes 
are considerably thicker than bias tubes.  Radial tubes are also better for 
snow sliding and river running....  Cheers

        "If you don't want somebody to get your goat, don't show them
        where it's tied up."

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:27:54 -0800
Subject: Series and Later LRs

I wasn't going to comment about the recent thread about how "plushmobiles" and 
series vehicles somehow don't have anything in common, but I think the later LR 
folks deserve a little more credit.

Recently I took part in the Winter Romp in Unity ME.  Of the fifteen or so 
vehicles, there were three RRs and on Disco that took part.  Two of the RRs came 
all the way from Indiana to take part!  Around the BBQ, around the bar and out 
on the off-road circuit there is no distinction between Series vehicles or 
non-series ones.  We are all out there slogging through the same stuff.  We pull 
each other out, direct each other and share in the experiences that make owning 
a Land Rover product so exciting.  

I learnt a lot out there, both from the series folks and otherwise.  Attitudes 
pushing out 'yuppies' and the like do nothing but tarnish our image and create 
antagonism.  Owning a LR is about individuality.  What if the later LR owners 
were to talk in such terms about the characters that drive Series vehicles?  
We're an individual lot and the respect that we have for each other should 
extend beyond the suspension of one's vehicle.

Sure, I've been snubbed by plenty of 'plushmobile' owners.  On a daily basis I 
see over a dozen different LR products. Most of them are later vehicles and I 
accept that a part if LRs being marketed to someone other than the 'lunatic 
fringe' of the automotive industry.  People, whatever their vehicle, who chose 
to subscribe to this list have shown their interest in the marque and their 
willingness to learn from others, let us respect that.  Let us encourage those 
that go beyond the call of duty and welcome them into the fraternity that we 
call Land Rover ownership.

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:28:03 -0800
Subject: Re: Flimsy Discos 

I, for one, would rather have a strong vehicle that can take its lumps and not 
deform massively in a crash.  Wear your seat belt and drive prudently and your 
chances of really needing such zones is not so apparent.  I do not deny that 
such design attributes have saved lives...but how many others have been lost due 
to having an idiot behind the wheel?

In the aviation industry there has been almost no effort to improve crash 
survivability but extensive gains in avoiding the accident to begin with.  
Although not to this extreme, we should take a lesson and hold ourselves to a 
much higher driving standard.  Europeans do so and they don't have to have big 
brother hold their hand out on the roads with restrictive speed limits and the 
like.  Truly, how many folks out there really know how to drive properly?  

There comes a point when the returns from crash survivability features 
diminishes and the true cause of highway death must be examined.  Train drivers 
to a higher standard and hold them to it and you'll do much more than an air bag 
 ever did to save a life.

Eric

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:28:07 -0800
Subject: Re: diesel power

On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, smitha@zeus.candw.lc wrote:
it transpired that it was from a test in France, with unlimited autoroute 
>speeds, 

Well, actually only if you have a foreign license to shove in front of the 
"flic's" face ;)  Never mind that you accurately respond in english to every 
question he asks in french....

Now all I need is a French license to use in the 'states.

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:28:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Misfires at the light

On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, "Hugh Grierson" <Hugh_Grierson@trimble.co.nz> wrote:
 What bothers me is why 
>no fuse or anything blew. 

Check for tinfoil around the fuses....or even a quick direct wire in the fuse 
block...if they took the time.....a favorite SPOT  (Stupid Previous Owner Trick)

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:51:06 -0500
Subject: Defenders to China

>From "Automotive International" February 1996:

"ROVER TARGETS CHINA FOR DEFENDER EXPORTS"

"Rover is aiming to start exporting Land Rovers to China this year and be
assembling the Defender there by the endo of the year."

"Rover is working with the Chinese Gorvernment to set up local sales,
distribution and service networks and identify sites where it might set up
assembly operations It expects buyers to come initially from the public
sector."

Rover used to claim there were only two countries without LRs; I believe it
was North Vietnam and Albania. Any knowledge of previous LRs in China?

David Cockey

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:03:03 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: CAR & DRIVER comparison

CAR & DRIVER is making the digest lately.

Their April 1996 issue compares 7 sport utility vehicles.

The Disco came in 6th, just ahead of the Oldsmobile Bravada which is one of
only 3 in the test I would consider owning.  It has the same great all wheel
drive system our GMC van has, but it is not an off road system (no low range
for one thing).  The other one is a rebadged Isuzu Trooper (part time 4wd
but I have had one for ten years and mine was strong enough to support its
weight on its roof (do not try this with a Jeep) and let the 3 passengers
open the doors to get out).

The winners in this test were the Pathfinder and 4 Runner and my opinion is
that they are just as reliable and enjoyable as any Toyota or Nissan.  Just
check out the action on their digests.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover
Newport New Hampshire
603-863-7883

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:02:58 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Re: Insurance tests of 4WDs

At 11:42 AM 2/29/96 EST, you wrote:
>All,

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 33 lines)]
>Yet another reason to hold onto the LWB Ser 2 (have one 
>also) forever.
>Hank
I missed the bit on TV of crash testing of sport utilities (Discos,
Pathfinders, etc.), but....being an insurance agent I will throw in a few
cents (or pences) worth even though it is after working hours.

1. Most people with newer vehicles will have insurance on them and their or
the other parties insurance will pay for the repairs.

2. The LR's insurance cost are higher then most sport utilities, around 20
on a scale of 1 to 27 vs a GM Suburban, Jeep Grand Cherokee or Ford Explorer
being around 16 or 17.  Ratings determined by Insurance Service Office (ISO)
and used in most of the USA.  Cost new, parts costs, thefts all effect the
rating.  BTW in the UK the Jeep is a 16 vs. LR Disco a 13 on their scale.
If you want to save on insurance buy a van.  Compared to a sport utility
vehicle, insurance is real cheap (maybe as high as a symbol 7 like our van).

3. Accidents do not happen like official crash tests.

4. Safety sells!  My local GM dealer can hardly wait for '97 when his sport
utilities get a 2nd air bag.  But safety can be misleading...I remember an
article that listed all the USA government crash ratings but cautioned.  The
1800 pound Geo Metro and the 4200 pound Ford Explorer had the same rating
for crashing into the wall, but which would you rather be in on the road
when they crash into each other?

5. I am still amazed how often I am called by a client to find out the
insurance cost of this or that new car before they decide to buy.  

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover (17 on a scale to 21 for 1988)
Newport New Hampshire
603-863-7883

------------------------------

From: Sekerere@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:44:17 -0500
Subject: Swamp Cooler

Hi Folks,

Well the "Anti-Christ" is down for some major refurbishment at the moment and
I am having withdrawal symptoms already having not driven her for over a
week. Not being mechanically adept she is over at an acquaintance whose whole
existence is Land Rovers. He is going to do everything up to the paint, but
will leave the painting to me. He is straightening all ripples out of the
body, repairing the numerous holes put in by people customizing the vehicle
over the last 30years. He is also going to put in a "swamp" cooler in place
of the heater. I am very eager to see how this works. He has one in a newly
restored 1963 Series IIA 88". This vehicle he has restored looks like it just
stepped off the production line-it is NICE!!!! Anyway I have never heard of
anyone else trying to A/C a Series vehicle that has the original 2.25l petrol
engine. I figured that it was somewhat of a necessity here in Mesa, Arizona
for those summer time temps of the 115 - 120 range. Any comments from the
audience would be appreciated. A "swamp" cooler, for those of you whoaren't
familiar with the term, is simply an evaporative cooler. The old airflow over
cool water trick.

Cheers

Chris
 By the way Biltong can be made in an Arizona garage in 3 days!!!!!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:57:22 -1000
From: "ROGER HALL: HNL M.E. GROUP" <ROGER_H@verifone.com>
Subject: Comments on range rovers

Sheesh.

Judging by all the falderal about lists, waving, and plushmobiles, my comment
that my newly purchased '89 RR drove like a Mercedes probably didn't go over
very well with some of the Series set....  whatever.  It certainly is an
improvement over my fairly recently deceased jacked up, bouncy primer'd blazer
with the 200" balloon tires and macho flair that my chronically amused wife
would giggle at whenever I happened by (and I don't even OWN a reversed cap).

Anyway, if any of you ever make it to the islands in your Series, I'll be sure
to wave with undue zeal if I see you pass by.  It's not every day one sees a
Series in Hawaii, especially one with seaweed hanging all over it.  

But if you DON'T wave back, you are nothing more than a snotty nose heap of
parrot droppings. 

Just in case....

Roger Hall
'89RR that kinda looks like a Montero if you squint your eyes real hard
                                                                       

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:59:54 -0500 (EST)
From: "Paul O'Donnell" <paulod@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Dateline trashing of Disco?

At 09:27 AM 2/28/96 -0700, you wrote:
>On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Patty Burke wrote:

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>actually the RODEO was the worst---remember crash tests are like
>statistics --- if you set it up right you can make it say anything you want!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------

The Dateline report dealt merely with the costs to repair damage to the
front and rear of the tested SUV's at 5mph into barrier, angle into barrier,
rear into pole, rear into barrier. The expense to the insurance companies to
repair this type of damage doesn't correlate with crash performance at high
speeds. The six vehicles that were tested for bumper performance are now be
tested in a a high speed offset crash. Stay tuned for results in March,96.

                                              Paul
 
>On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Patty Burke wrote:

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:15:11 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: not Snubbed by a Plushmobile

At 12:51 01.03.96 +1300, Hugh Grierson wrote:
>> Is this person on the list?
>Maybe it's time for a "land-rover.team.net" bumper sticker?
>-- 

Now there's a thought.  Might help cement the former YugoRoveria back together.

Cheers!
John
Land Rover
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:31:24 -0800
From: fhyap@ix.netcom.com (Franklin H. Yap )
Subject: What's going on

The last several days have been strange.  The West Coast list has been 
out.  (I wonder if this has anything to do with Ridgecrest now being 
the earthquake capital of the United States.)  Some new business has 
been getting flamed extensively for alleged copyright and unfair 
practices.  But wouldn’t it have been more civilized to discuss the 
matter with the person in question rather than all the accusations?  It 
is possible that he didn’t know he was guilty of copyright violations 
and unfair practices - some people thought he was not breaking any 
laws, just being unethical.  In any event, his apologies and 
corrections, once the matter was brought to his attention, appear 
genuine - gosh, doesn’t anybody make mistakes?  It is possible he is a 
real jerk ... but he could turn out to be a very nice person and a new 
asset to the LR community. (Ben, if he is using your photos without 
your permission, tell him to stop or barter for some series parts (but 
don't forget this will be taxable income).)

The complaints about insurance premiums are well deserved.  Insurance 
companies do gouge.  But if you are wondering why 4wd rates are high, 
you must have missed the discussions about those who ended up in snow 
ditches feeling surprised that their 4wd didn’t keep them on the road.  
(If the vehicles get damaged during such voluntary behaviour, do you 
think the owners will absorb the loss?  No, I think they would happily 
sue!)  I notice that no one chided them for their behaviour.  (Contrary 
to popular opinion, 4wds, including those made by LR, do not make you 
invincible.)

Then, someone mentions that for off roading discussions you need the 
Series folks (in the US) since most Defenders here are currently status 
symbols exceeding Range Rovers in prestige.  Hmmmm.  What’s this?  
While I’m pleased that the Defenders are held in such high esteem, and, 
although NAS D110s may never go off-road, lots of NAS D90s do.  BTW, 
isn’t there someone on the list who claims to have only seen one RR 
off-road.

I didn’t see NBC's Dateline about damages to sport utilities but I 
heard about it today at work (before reading the digest tonight).  I’m 
glad I didn’t see the show.  Enough of this sensational journalism!  
(And these people like to think of themselves as REAL journalists!)  
Interestingly though, I heard that the Izuzu Rodeo performed the worst. 
 Wouldn’t you know it, a couple of weeks ago a Passport (Honda badged 
Rodeo), while backing into a parking space in my office’s parking lot, 
bumped a Toyota Corolla and caused over $1000 in damages to the 
Corolla.  There wasn’t even a scratch on the Passport.  So much for 
Dateline’s report.

And now, a campaign to drive non-series owners off the LRO list.  
Attention all non-series owners, please move to the back of the bus.  
(Later you will be asked to get off).  Gee, whatever happened to our 
kinder, gentler nation?

------------------------------

From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Swamp Cooler
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:40:00 +1030 (CDT)

> restored 1963 Series IIA 88". This vehicle he has restored looks like it just
> stepped off the production line-it is NICE!!!! Anyway I have never heard of
> anyone else trying to A/C a Series vehicle that has the original 2.25l petrol

What a shame TerriAnn isnt still with us.  ISTR that she has seen a IIa 109 
with *factory* fitted A/C (owner had original factory paperwork), I dont 
recall if she had photos, but i guess we'll never know now will we :-(

Oh well at least we know it can be done

cheers

-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Logo/sticker/other products
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 02:17:14 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@OpenMarket.com>

Hi,
	There is a logo, which was originally done by Soren Vels, if memory
serves me correctly.  It is rather prominently displayed on the Web pages,
in its updated form (the string now reads 'lro@land-rover.team.net'). Just
make sure he gets a couple for his work.

	Tradition in the Team.Net world (remember, Land Rover lists aren't
the first, nor the largest Team.Net players), is that some motivated
individual creates said logo, (done) and then stickers get made, and folks
send cash their way and they get sent out.

	Now the easy part is getting a sticker printed.  The more difficult
part is taking your n00 stickers and sticking them in envelopes (don't forget
the cardboard to stiffen it so it doesn't get spindled or mutilated) and
post the hundreds of envelopes. (It probably make sense to work with folks
in far-flung places and send stickers in bulk to the UK and  AU/NZ for
distribution in Europe and down-under.) The hard part is finding some 
sucker who believes in it enough to get the stickers printed and has
the time and commitment to mail them.

	The tradition is that excess funds are then left in 'the kitty' as
seed money (for the next round of stickers or for shirts, etc.), or for costs
of operating the list (our AutoX.team.net folks actually own the disks on
their mail/web server).

	
    Cheers,
        --bill  	caloccia@OpenMarket.com
                 http://www.OpenMarket.com/personal/caloccia/
				  N
				  D
   R  1  3  2wd  H             L  3     
   +--|--|   o   |             |  2
      2  4  4wd  L             H  1
   '63 SIIa RHD 88"       '90 RR County
      793-PTA 

------------------------------

Subject: Re: What's going on 
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:42:45 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <bulk.13223.19960229223040@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you wrote:

> The last several days have been strange.  The West Coast list has been 
> out.  (I wonder if this has anything to do with Ridgecrest now being 
> the earthquake capital of the United States.)  

	Nope no earthquakes here.  The west coast list is run on RidgeNET.
There are 5 routers between RidgeNET and where packets can start
taking multiple paths (one is RidgeNET, one is China Lake, 2 are DREN
(Defense Research and Engineering Network, and then Fix-west.)  One of the
DREN routers stopped passing our packets for 4+ days.  (It took 3+ days
to get the politics settled to do a 30 second techinical fix.)

> (Ben, if he is using your photos without 
> your permission, tell him to stop or barter for some series parts (but 
> don't forget this will be taxable income).)

	EuroParts and I have settled the issue off line.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 18:21:49 +0800
From: Oscar <omont@mnl.sequel.net>
Subject: Dakar engines

Lanny tells me there have been a few installations of Dakar engines in North
America.  Is any one on this list or know of any installations?

TIA

Oscar
omont@mnl.sequel.net

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date:  1 Mar 96  6:28:33 EST
Subject: Re: Oz beer....

Re: RFDS:

>I'd be interested to know what problems you've come across..

Actually, none. I find the fact that this sevice exists to be a sincere tribute 
to the professionals involved. I was not disparaging Australian medicine, but 
rather the LR dentistry.....8*)

>As for the beer, come on Al you've been around long enough, you should 
>know that *real* LRO, only drink Coopers.....  Darn Guinness just takes too 
>long to pour :-(

Speak for yourself, O kangaroo-chasing one. In the Northern climes, one drinks 
Guinness as it can be used as a substitute for 90wt in an emergency, and then 
be drunk with no loss of flavour or carbonation after being replaced.

Actually, proper beer is beer made at home. Commercial beer doesn't cut it for 
me anymore.....Guinness is too light for me, and too low in alcohol content. 
Barleywine, now THAT's the proper tipple - 14%ABV and a smoothness that flows 
like honey.

     aj"Got one in bottles now"r

Cheers

-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

 

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 127 lines 5511 [forwarded 654 whitespace 1331]
 Output: lines 4164 [content 2658  forwarded 325 (cut  329) whitespace 1183]

    Back
	
    Forward
	


	
    
          
	



Photos & text Copyright 1990-2011
	Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved. 

Digest Messages Copyright 1990-2011 by the original poster or/and
	Bill Caloccia,
	All rights reserved.