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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 06:06:13 -0700
From: Mark Murphy <Mark.Murphy@evolving.com>
Subject: alloy wheels

Gerald,

I would suggest that you keep your alloy wheels (assuming you
have the space) and periodically mention the fact in the lro
digest. I, for one, have bashed two of my alloy rims while 4WDing. 
Not enough to cause any kind of problem but still noticable. I 
can't afford them now and "don't functionally" need them or I
would make an offer. But I do want to replace them in the 
future. I am on the dealer's list for new/used alloy wheels and
am waiting on a good price and availability. I am betting that 
there are others out there in the same position. If you decide
to keep them, let me know and I will add your name to my potential
alloy wheel source list.

thanks,
Mark Murphy
Denver, Colorado USA
1995 white 5spd Discovery
mmurphy@evolving.com

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 05:32:53 -0800
Subject: Re: Buy-back pogroms (not a typo)

On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) wrote:

>Let's not forget the banking and insurance industries.  

Its surprising the insurance industries would support getting older cars off the 
road.  The physical damage sustained by such vehicles in an accident is so much 
less its incredible.  I guess, though, the damage to the occupants is more?  I 
don't know.

Eric

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 05:32:57 -0800
Subject: Re: Cupholder Technology

On Fri, 16 Feb 1996, Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com> wrote:

>What do others do with their drinks in RRs?

I haven't tried this in my LR, but its "reputed" to have been used by plow truck 
drivers years ago.  They would take an extra wiper washer resivoir and pump and 
mount it with the hose going into the cab.  You then fill the resivoir with your 
beverage of choice and drink away.  The story goes on to say that the resivoirs 
were always filled with whiskey to put in their coffee while driving....like I 
said, this is a story.

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 07:50:14 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Lye to me...Clean up yor act !

> One of the cheapest and best parts cleaners can be found at your local 
> grocery store ! Good 'ol lye. This is a powerful stripping agent and should 
> be used with a healthy respect.

This is what's used in machine shops when they hot tank blocks, etc. 
except that it's boiling.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Fri, 16 Feb 1996 13:47:10 +0000
Subject:       Travelling through Europe in a 109

This is aimed mainly at the European folk, though any suggestions are 
welcome..

I intend to spend 3 weeks on a jaunt through Europe this summer.

The plan is to go Scotland -> The Netherlands, Netherlands -> Belgum, 
Belgum -> Luxomburg, Luxomburg -> Germany, Germany -> Austria, Austria -> 
Switzerland, Switzerland -> Italy.

Recover for a week or so, and then return:

Italy -> Monaco, Monaco -> France, France -> England, England -> Scotland.

Are there any little wrinkles that will cause problems for a 109 with a 
2.25 petrol, running good old 4-star (leaded) petrol?

The intention is to take a leasurely drive, so Toll-roads and autobahns 
will be avoided. If anyone has any beauty-spots they can recommend, I'll 
see if we can make it.

Does anyone have any suggestions for spares and other essential supplies?

in anticipation....

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

Quote of 1996: "A.L.S. is a good example of scotissityness"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 07:37:54 -0500
From: Michael Kirk <michaelk@infi.net>
Subject: Re: Cupholder Technology

Between the legs (automatic RR), or wedged between the seat and the 
center console.  Have not found a (cheap) cupholder that works yet....

-- 
=============================================================  	 
        Michael Kirk "michaelk@infi.net"
        92 Range Rover   
        Graduate Student, MBA Program, Old Dominion University
        Norfolk, VA, USA  
        (804) 440-5383   
=============================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 08:54:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Rick Grant <rgrant@synapse.net>
Subject: Re: Cupholder Technology

At 12:04 AM 2/16/96 -0500, Jeff & Laura Kessler, wrote

>What do others do with their drinks in RRs?

When we bought our SII last summer, Catherine's first concern, way before
any other in the long list of things that had to be done to the semi wreck,
was where to put the cupholder.

When she bought her new Volkswagen Golf she almost walked away from the deal
because it had nowhere to put a coffee cup.

We almost plunged into irretrievable debt the day she saw the fold out
double cup holders in the Discoverys.

                                                        Rick Grant

rgrant@synapse.net
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 08:04:44 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: The Duke, seats and rotary motor

> one thought of trying a 6 port Mazda rotary engine?

It's a Wankel (sp?) engine. MB used them in their C111 experimental 
cars in the late 60's. 0-60 in less than 5 seconds. You'd never be 
able to call your LR a dog during acceleration again. :-)
As I recall they got pretty decent milage. (though not at the near 
200mph MB test speeds)
As for the exhaust I'd guess, since the engines are smaller, that you 
could just put a tube bend in where it exits the manifold and bring 
it up and over to the left side.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 09:05:37 -0500
From: Elizabeth Renee Fekete <EFEKETE@imf.org>
Subject:  The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest -Reply

Re: New Jersey Law

There is a solution: have your car registered in another state!  All you
need is an adress.  Many states are really abusing and taking advantage
of car owners!  We should show them that there is a way around. 
Unfortunatly, all the abusive legislation is pushing us at doing that kind of
things!

Elisabeth

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 08:10:59 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Cupholder Technology

> What do others do with their drinks in RRs?

The best cup holders I've seen are the one's designed for boats. They 
are metal, although I imagine plastic ones are on the market by now, 
and hang from a pivot. If mounted in the proper place they will pivot 
in all directions. Ideal for off roading. Or those high G curves. 
LAst time I priced them they were less than $10 US.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 14:56:57 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Cupholder Technology

Call RN, they have a centre console holder in walnut that fits over the 
transfer lever, options include one hole or two. I think they cost $60.00

AB has some outrageous effort that sits over the cubby box, problem is you 
cant get at things when cups are in place. Also, as always with AB costs $$$ 

Mark

----------
From:  Jeff & Laura Kessler
Sent:  Friday, February 16, 1996 12:04 AM
Subject:  Cupholder Technology

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
 * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc

LR related only because I hold my morning coffee and drive with one hand.

Latest AUTOWEEK had a bit where a GM interior designer stated that he was
embarrassed to say what GM spends on cupholder technology then went on to
say he could not believe he had even said the words "cupholder" and
"technology" together.

What do others do with their drinks in RRs?

Jeff Kessler
88 Range Rover
Newport New Hampshire
603-863-7883

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 14:58:49 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Any Suggestion on Used RR Checklist?

I can agree to the transfer case shifter. When I got mine 3 years ago, the 
transfer box was so tight through lack/no use that shaft broke when trying to 
put it in low box !!!!!!!!!! RN had to weld the shaft back on !!

Mark 

----------
From:  Jeff & Laura Kessler
Sent:  Thursday, February 15, 1996 11:54 PM
Subject:  Re: Any Suggestion on Used RR Checklist?

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
 * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc

At 11:53 AM 2/15/96 -0500, you wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc
	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 29 lines)]
>Tony
>tkn9389@hertz.njit.edu
>tning@gpu.com

RUST!

I do not know where you live or where the RR lived but here rust is a concern.

As I said already all the bolts underneath will rust solid.  Mine had a
rusted rear lift gate which I replaced at Rovers North for $600 (known when
we bought it).  They also have aluminuim ones available for $200 more.

Check around the lower tailgate too. it is also steel (along with the hood).

Dents are normal wear and tear for a 7 year old auto.  You are right about
the center diff on an 89 but even on my 88 the diff lock only is needed in
thick stuff.  I bet most of the original owners of RRs never even tried the
transfer case lever.

Good luck.

Jeff Kessler
88 Range Rover
Newport New Hampshire
603-863-7883

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer <Alan_Richer.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 16 Feb 96  9:56:33 EST
Subject: Re: The Duke, seats and rotary motor

>> one thought of trying a 6 port Mazda rotary engine?
>It's a Wankel (sp?) engine. MB used them in their C111 experimental 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>As I recall they got pretty decent milage. (though not at the near 
>200mph MB test speeds)

Personally, i'd wonder if one of these engines would have enough low-down grunt 
for an LR application. Certainly, I'd wonder at an adaptation to a Series 
vehicle, as they're designed not to see revs over about 4500.

Dunno.....wouldn't want to try it in MY Rover.

                                                  ajr

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 09:17:21 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: The Duke, seats and rotary motor

> Personally, i'd wonder if one of these engines would have enough low-down grunt 
> for an LR application. Certainly, I'd wonder at an adaptation to a Series 
> vehicle, as they're designed not to see revs over about 4500.

Actually, for long term ownership of a Rover I'd recommend diesel. 
Long term you get the mileage payback, they're the best for 
off-roading, and in the future when petroleum products are expensive, 
even more than they currently are in Europe, you can burn vegetable 
oil with no problem. Many farmers do now.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Mazda conversion
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 10:23:00 EST

Clinton Coates wrote"Has any
one thought of trying a 6 port Mazda rotary engine?
They are pretty small and light, very quite, rev to 9k,"

At 15 mph /1000 thats 135mph. Move over Jory

Trevor "BB Gun" Easton

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:19:49 -0500
From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg)
Subject: Re: Cupholder Technology

>> What do others do with their drinks in RRs?
>The best cup holders I've seen are the one's designed for boats. They

I too use a "marine" cupholder in my SIIa.  It's RivNutted to the
transmission tunnel just forward of the seatbox.  The plastic holder that I
chose, available through Boats U.S.,  adjusts to different cup sizes using
a sliding ratchet mechanism.  This system passed my "Big Gulp" test*** for
cupholders.  In fact, the only "mug" in my permanent collection that this
thing won't hold is my 52 oz.  "Solar Polar B(ig)-52" from a Holiday Gas
Station.  It does fine with the smaller 34 oz. Solar Polar though.

The plastic does get brittle in cold weather so I seem to go through one a
year.  However, at >$15 a piece I don't consider it too high a price for
something I use every day.  The RivNuts make the change-over a 30 second
Boats U.S. parking lot job.  If anyone can find me a similar unit in
aluminum or stainless, I'll buy one.

*** For details on the highly scientific "Big Gulp" test of cup holder
technology, as well as the equally technical 7-11 florescent Light Test (to
see if you want to go out with *her* a second time) EMAIL me back-channel.
The only thing the two tests have in common is that you can carry them out
simultaneously.

RoverOn!

JAB

==                                                                      ==
 Jeffrey A. Berg          Purple Shark Media                 Rowayton, CT

                         jeff@purpleshark.com
                          ==================
               My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
          My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
                       Taste for the good life,
                      I can see it no other way.
                                --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)
==                                                                      ==

------------------------------

From: Danny Phillips <danny@tlpgate.lonpar.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Helping
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 15:25:53 GMT

Dear all, Although this may be out of place on the main digest I am posting it
here as some people from the uk and europe only subscribe to this list.

I can't promise to fix the problem or have the parts (i don't have the space)
but i can help tow and have a phone and a kettle to warm people up.

Danny Phillips
70 Dalmatia Road 
Southend 
Essex
SS1 2QQ

Tel: 01702 616798
Mobile 0378 912747.

If you are in my area you now have my details.

speak to you all soon.
danny

------------------------------

From: wgould@stata.com (William Gould)
Subject: Re: Cupholder Technology
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:51:49 -0600

At 12:04 AM 2/16/96 -0500, Jeff & Laura Kessler, wrote

>What do others do with their drinks in RRs?

and Rick Grant <rgrant@synapse.net> wrote

> When she bought her new Volkswagen Golf she almost walked away from the
> deal because it had nowhere to put a coffee cup.

A couple of years back, my wife did walk away from a Mercedes for exactly that
reason.  She is reasonably pleased with the cup holders on our Discovery.

Nevertheless, I have always admired the cupholders on my rancher friend's 4WD
Suburban.  He has even bragged how solidly that cupholder held his drink
through the lurching as Jay dragged him out of the mud with a ranch tractor.
Moreover, the spacious interior provides plenty of room for mounting the
cellphone -- although that only solves half the problem -- there being no
convenient place to mount a cellphone on the tractor.

-- Bill
   95 Disco
   wgould@stata.com
                              |////////////////////
         ____                 | PARKING GARAGE ////                
        ||___|\_______        +--------------------
        |    \   |    \   |                        
       #|____\___|___[]\__|___                     
       #|  __|-  |-    |  __ [|                    
       [|_/  \___|_____|_/  \_|]                 
         ( o )           ( o )                     
       ..................................../
         the lil' guzzler goes to the
                  big city                  

                              |////////////////////
                              | PARKING GARAGE ////
               _________      +--------------------
          |   /    |    \__/\                                 
       ___|__/[]___|___\____|#                                 
      |] __  |    -|  -|__  |#                                 
     [|_/  \_|_____|___/  \_|]                                    
       ( o )           ( o )                                      
     ..................................../      
       the lil' guzzler goes home

------------------------------

From: Danny Phillips <danny@tlpgate.lonpar.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Seat Belts
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 16:33:08 GMT

Dear all,
Billy Connelly that man of mirth from Glasgow, once said :-
        So there you are on the plane and you put that little belt on, what 
for when was the last time you heard the following on the news, a plane with
600 people on board crashed today but they were all alright as they had their 
seat belts on.

My father in law flies 747's and he always makes me laugh asking why 1st class
is a the front of the plane, when was the last time a plane backed in to a 
mountain.

not really lr related i know, but i will be upgrading my belts to harnesses sonn.

by the way my 2a is ex mod and as such the filler for the tank us under the i
drivers seat.

how easy is it to fit a civilian tank and filler etc ?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 16:35:47 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Oh boyoboyoboyo

>BTW, can anyone tell me what a the "VM" is in "Turbo Diesel VM"?

VM are the Italian firm that made the engine.When Land Rover wanted
to introduce a diesel Range Rover,quickly,they didnt have time to
develop their own,so they tried various others.The VM won.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 16:56:43 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: RR Bull bar for sale 

All, 

I'm replacing my bull bar with front headlamp guards, so I can put in a 
discreet Warn winch mount on the front of my RR. 

Therefore if anyone is interested in a genuine LR/RR wrap-a-round bull bar 
with swing-out lamp guards, then e-mail me. Asking $200. 

Mark

----------
From:  Dixon Kenner
Sent:  Friday, February 16, 1996 1:38 AM
Subject:  Re: Importing Series LR's to Canada from UK

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
 * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc

On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, Ralph Gustafson wrote:

> How hard is it to import land rovers from the UK into Canada?
> They seem really cheap over there, even taking into account
> the exchange rate.  There are probably emmision and safety regs
> that make it difficult to import them, but perhaps they can 
> be circumvented or the trucks modified?  
	The fast and simple answer...

	http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/FAQ.5.parts.customs.canada.html

	In one line...  Make it 15 years old and you can have what you want.

	Hmmm, less info than the web address... Read the web page...

	You want Statutory Concession 2440 of Schedule 2 of the Customs Act.

	After reading the web page, drop a line if you have further 
	questions.  The page covers parts and vehicles imported to Canada.

	Rgds,

Dixon Kenner                                    (819) 997-1107
Canadian Forestry Service                       Natural Resources Canada

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:03:05 -0600 (CST)
From: ccray@showme.missouri.edu
Subject: SIIa 88 parts wanted in midwest USA...

ok, delete now if you think this is misuse of LRO.  

anyway, i have spent more than $50 US in telephone calls attempting
to locate some parts -- maybe the lro list can deliver. i have a 
trailer and will drive up to 1000 miles or so to acquire the bigger
parts if they are a value...
 
anyway, for a 61 SIIa 88, wanted:
-- rear body tub -- must be straight, color unimportant.  no
   corrosion.  mine is dented and i don't want to put the time
   and money into repairs.
-- safari top w/vents and alpine windows.
-- rear station wagon door.
-- front breakfast -- the one with headlights in the radiator support.
-- set of sills.
-- tailgate 

of course, i want quality used parts at a good price.
reply to me via the back channel or phone -- home number below...

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Harder                 Columbia, Missouri   314-445-7725
                           "...you are what you drive..."
---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 12:08:29 -0500
From: al045@freenet.carleton.ca (Dale Desprey)
Subject: Steering with series

Like most of our Series Land Rovers, mine leaks oil from the steering box
and steering relay.  Now there is nothing wrong with them except I have to
keep filling them up with oil, so I don't want to replace them.  There may
be a solution. 

So the rumour goes...  G.M. made a wax like lubricant for the steering
boxes for some years of their cars.  The dilemma was whether to machine
the surface of the rough cast components or to develop a product that
would seal around the cool outside, but lubricate the inside moving parts.
 Guess which was more cost effective?  I think that kind of logic is kind
of neat.  If I were building cars, I would have machined the parts without
even thinking about it.  

Anybody know what this stuff is called?  Or any model and year that used
this stuff?  If I could get some, I would try it.   

--
Dale Desprey                  Al045
"Of course it burns oil, Officer, it's a diesel"

------------------------------

From: paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash)
Subject: Holiday
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 20:39:07 +1100

I I've unsubscribed temporarily (I hope) while I'm away on holiday
(back to wonderful South Africa for five weeks :-)).  Just in case
it doesn't work _and_ my machine's mailer crashes and the list is
flooded with all sorts of bounce messages, I'd like to apologise
in advance ...

	paul
--
   Paul Nash                Real Men make bechamel on medium heat
   <paul@frcs.alt.za>    37 Tyson St, Ainslie ACT 2602, AUSTRALIA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 09:47:23 -0800
From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville B. Pool)
Subject: Re: Selectro Hubs

Mike Rooth asks:

>Does anyone know who manufactures the above mentioned free wheel
>hubs?They are American,that much I do know.

Tom Rowe asks:

>Which kind of Selectro are they? The kind that have the large knob 
>like the Fairey, or the kind with the two levers. They were both  made by 
>Selectro, but I no longer have an address for them. 

The kind with the two levers sound like Dual-Matics <gag> but the ones with
the big knobs are the Selectro "Classic" which is still made for some older
4x4s but not Land-Rovers.  I have two sets (pairs), one of which is new.  I
am planning to put them both on my Series III 88 (front and rear).  I was
able to get service kits for them and expect that the other parts are still
available as well.  

They are made by Mile Marker of Florida, which now makes a different style
of hub for Land-Rovers which appears to be similar to AVM hubs.  The company
describes these as a "strong-spring/weak-spring" design which is supposed to
be a more reliable version of the self-actuating effect of the old-style
spring-loaded Selectros and Faireys, both of which I personally like a lot,
especially the Faireys (but maybe that's because they are so handsome and
because the Rover I had them on had a spool (locked diff) in the front which
made engagement of most hubs nearly impossible).

Mile Marker is better known for its full-time to part-time 4WD conversion
kits for American 4x4s and now, ironically, part-time to full-time
conversions which provide an add-on viscous coupling which can be ordered
tailered to the type of driving you will do (i.e. tighter if you're going to
be mostly off-road, looser if you are going to use it mostly on-road).  This
set-up still allows shifting into 2WD so is more accurately called part-time
full-time, I suppose.  It is a compact gizmo that looks kind of like a
short, fat free-wheeling hub and mounts to the front output flange of the
transfer case.  It can probably be had for at least some Land-Rovers and
costs somewhere around $400 or so.  Then you have to have your front
driveshaft shortened.

Lately, Mile Marker has been advertising in the American 4x4 magazines with
its new hydraulic winch.  This unit appears to me to be rather puny and
pricey.  As I recall, the hydraulic pump is electrically powered, not
engine- or PTO-driven.  And it appears to be a planetary rather than
worm-drive set-up.

Mile Marker makes another interesting bit, namely a wireless remote-control
set-up for truck-mounted winches.  A dandy idea, methinks.  It sells for
about $90.00.

    Mile Marker
    1450 S.W. 13th Court
    Pompano Beach, FL 33069 USA
    305-782-0770 Fax
    305-782-0770 Voice
    800-886-8647 Toll-free in US
    800-426-8646 as above

Cheers,

Granny

Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA
<gpool@.pacific.net> (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 12:55:07 -0600 (CST)
From: ccray@showme.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Grafton's graftin...

On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, Mike Rooth wrote:
> Andy thanks Tom Rowe for the troppo roof flap in door idea,they are
> working marvellously,as,aparently is the home made raised air intake on
 
mike, tom, i missed it -- what is "the troppo roof flap in door idea" 
mentioned.

ray harder (61-siia (lulu))

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:46:43 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: OME & Trak Edge.

Tom -- can you actually get BFG Trac Edges in the US? Also, can you get 
215-85-16's; they would be less of a jump from stock and may require no 
cutting (by my calculations you'd get about 3/4 inch of added clearance 
insteadt of the 1 1/2 inches you got)

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR with stock tires

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:54:00 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Help on purchasing a RR

Hear Hear to the below remarks

Also, on the question of rbody repair costs, I have found that if you 
find a body shop that knows how to bash aluminum, they can fix dents etc 
fine, at no more expense than steel. Especially if you tell them you are 
paying for it instead of the insurance co (in the latter case the shop 
will generally just buy the new panel and bolt it on). I've had a number 
of four wheeling induced minor dents repaired this way.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89 RR

On Tue, 13 Feb 1996 
Sanna@aol.com wrote:

> Talk about bad information.  When you buy a RR your getting a heavy duty box
> frame (the heaviest of anything in it's class by far; nothing even comes
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)]
> worth the $'s it costs.
> Hope this helps.  If you need to talk, call me at 800-373-7226. - Tony

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 13:40:29 EST
From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben)
Subject: Renewed Traditions/Avon.

A day or two ago someone asked about RT/Avon.

I imported my Land-Rover 109HT from UK, directly from Avon.
There's at least another person on the list, who used them.

I am not sure what kind of work Avon does for RT, sounds like
they do a more thorough job.

But I was not impressed:  I paid for a complete go-over
of drivetrain, brakes, respray, seats, etc.
Well, it was resprayed, some new components were installed
in the brake system.  Haven't seen the brake pads, err, shoes.

The rest of the "rebuild" - well, suffice to say, the rotor/points
were ancient, the sludge in the motor/axles/tranny was from 100 yrs. ago-
the kind of stuff that even the most scummy used car dealer will
do as the first priority.
No light bulb in a turning lamp, leaky windshield - simple 10 minute
stuff.  No biggy, just shows disrespect for themselves, me and the Landie.

Should you go for it?? YES! this is the only way you'll afford the kind
of Landie you _really_ want.  And I am guessing that RT, being Avon's
bigger customer, gets more respect, so your unit may get more attention.

Jan
109+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 12:17:23 -0800
From: fhyap@ix.netcom.com (Franklin H. Yap )
Subject: Re: Who makes the laws (No LR Content)

Yes, I know we should stick to LR content so I'll keep it short.

If you don't want lawyers in the legislature, do like we do in 
California.  We sent Sonny (I've Got You Babe) Bono and Diane (No 4WD 
in Mojave) Feinstein to Washington.  (You may still not like how they 
voted, although only $1 (? - some trivial amount) was appropriated so 
there is currently no enforcement in the Mojave.)  Several years ago 
didn't Wisconsin(?) send Gopher from The Love Boat to Congress?

Several prominent US senators, such as Jesse Helms, Phil Gramm, Richrd 
Lugar, Jay Rockefeller, Connie Mack, Nancy Kassebaum (just retired), 
John (fly me to the moon) Glenn, etc., are non-lawyers.  I guess 
Senator Phil Gramm, a non-lawyer economist, won't be the next president 
since he just got bounced from the race.  (Bob Dole is a lawyer, I 
don't know if Pat Buchanan is.)

Yes, yes .. let's keep this a LR ONLY zone.  You can e-mail me 
directly.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 14:32:30 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Grafton's graftin...

> On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, Mike Rooth wrote:
> > Andy thanks Tom Rowe....snip

Weren't me. Or is my evil twin showing up in my life again? 

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 15:48:11 -0500
From: benedick@pa.net (Darwyn/Kris Benedict)
Subject: Re: Cupholder Technology

>What do others do with their drinks in RRs?

I use a cheap (around $5) holder called "Spill Master"  I have seen these in
a variety of sizes.  Currently, I use the full size one and have it straped
to the top of my center console.  The good point: It's adjustable to fill
all sizes of drinks from cans to "Big" 40 oz. cups and etc.  The bad point:
My husband hates the way it looks on the console.  Method 2: I have seen at
a local customizer's, a holder that fits into a regular size holder, but
then the top is larger to fit bigger cups.

Also, I don't like where the holders are in the Disco.  It makes it very
hard to adjust the heating/ A.C. system, Plus, One of the holders is
utilized as a Cell phone holder.

Kris 94 Disco "Thumper"

P.S.
I have seen the "Spill Master" in Wal-Mart (East Coast) and auto stores.
Neither method is the best, maybe someone else will have a better suggestion.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 12:57:49 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re: RN web

At 10:51 AM 2/16/96 -0800, Ben Smith wrote:
>	A little birdie told me that you all might find something interesting
>at http://www.roversnorth.com/   (Not that you heard it from me or anything)

 Ooooo, nice start!

 I did order a catalog from them... online!  I wonder if they will ever publish
 their parts catalog, drawings and part numbers, and price sheet on the Web?

 They also have some Internet specials, just a jacket and some books.  An a
 pitch for their off-road school and of course why we all should do business
 with the only authorized 'genuine' parts supplier.

 Curiously there is no "email to.." option, probably not ready to receive
 any email.  Looks like the whole site may be experimental (geee, I wonder if
 I ever will get my catalog now :)

 Nice discovery, Ben!

-Michael

 PS-- Internic records on roversnorth.com are:

 Rovers North c/o Intervision, Ltd. (ROVERSNORTH-DOM)
   19 Church St.
   Burlington, VT 05401
   USA

   Domain Name: ROVERSNORTH.COM

   Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
      Licatta, Tom  (TL459)  info@INTERVIS.COM
      802-860-1395

   Record last updated on 06-Feb-96.
   Record created on 06-Feb-96.

   Domain servers in listed order:

   NORTHSHORE.ECOSOFT.COM       192.233.85.129
   SHORE.SHORE.NET              192.233.85.136
 

 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 15:02:15 -0600
From: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu (Arnold Yoon)
Subject: Re:D90SW Prices

Aieee!!!  42K+ for a D90 SW?

Hinsdale LR in Illinois has (had a week ago) two Alpine White D90s for
sale....32.5K...If you need the number, let me know!!

Arnold Yoon
University of Wisconsin - Madison
E-Mail: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu
Voice: (608) 259-9936

Land Rover 4 Ever!
1995 Land Rover Discovery
"Four Wheel Drive Exemplified"

 

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 16:00:57 -0500
Subject: That would be welcomed...

Dixon writes "Rules vary a bit.  I have added a web page for Canada.  Anyone
with USA info?  I'll add that too..."

I hope someone has some information to contribute..... this kind of info
would be helpful!

Gerry Elam
Phoenix  AZ   "The sun is shining... summer's almost here!  Oh great... 118
degrees!"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 16:22:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: That would be welcomed...

On Fri, 16 Feb 1996 GElam30092@aol.com wrote:

> I hope someone has some information to contribute..... this kind of info
> would be helpful!

	Actually, the page for Austria should be up soon.  We are busy
	ferretting out some of this information...  Expecting some
	information from one chap on vehicle imports to the USA, and
	have feelers out on some other countries.  The pages are slowly
	revised on a regular basis.  Actually, the page I'd like some
	people to look at are the clubs pages to ensure that the information
	is still correct and up to date.  There are a lot of people
	from various clubs on this mailing list.  We do want to try
	and make sure all the LR clubs are represented accurately.  The
	same goes for parts suppliers.

	Rgds,

Dixon Kenner                                    (819) 997-1107
Canadian Forestry Service                       Natural Resources Canada

------------------------------

Subject: Re: That would be welcomed... 
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 14:09:52 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Dixon wrote:
 
> > I hope someone has some information to contribute..... this kind of info
> > would be helpful!
> 	Actually, the page for Austria should be up soon.  

	It is up.  :)

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 17:17:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Lye to me...Clean up yor act !

       Some of the less-than desirable citizens of New York City are known to
keep a hot mixture of Lye and Cooked oatmeal simmering on the stove.(reason
for the oatmeal is it sticks to the skin and is doubly hard to wash off)
                                                          This is used to
throw at Police Officers, or others viewed an 'undesirables' who dare to come
calling..
         .I saw one of my partners take a blast of this mixture,  it made him
go out of his mind with pain.....he was lucky insofar as he was wearing
glasses which saved his eyes from serious damage, and was lucky  there was an
open fire hydrant in front of the building where we were able to literaly
"drown" him with fresh water..for quite awhile I might add.
     Be forewarned... this stuff will make your skin look like a candle if
you're not careful and if you choose to use this by all means wear some type
of eye protection.... 

Rgds,
Steve  WA2GMC     72 S lll 88
                              68 S lla 88

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 17:47:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Selectro Hubs

Hubs are a total waste of money on a Rover.  They are an expense, as they are
one more component that is prone to FAILURE if not maintained.  They do
little, if nothing for gas milage, they are an inconvenience to operate, in
certain circumstances they'll leave you stuck, mired or stranded, they were a
'50's/'60's add-on for jeeps and other sub-off roaders who's drive trains
tended to get wound up & bound on the wrong type of road surface.  Unless you
have a LR for looks to tow around behind your Suburban, they are an
anti-option for a series vehicle.  You might as well screw a JEEP CJ5 logo to
your grill as use hubs.  I've got 1/3 million rough miles on Lulubelle, and
the front end is the only part of the car that is original/factory stock.  So
there.  - Tony

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 17:46:10 -0500
From: Michael Kirk <michaelk@infi.net>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe me, PLEASE!

Try sending it to:

Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

BREAKFIELD ERNEST wrote:
> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>      unsubscribe
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)]
>      thanks,
>      e

-- 
=============================================================  	 
        Michael Kirk "michaelk@infi.net"
       92 Range Rover   
      Graduate Student, MBA Program, Old Dominion University
      Norfolk, VA, USA  
       (804) 440-5383   
=============================================================

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 17:54:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Bolt-on aluminum panels?

>>>>>> The series LR's are pop-riveted together.  It's the same principal,
you just
> need different tools.  
 Pop rivets?  Cool...  Ummmm, where do I look on my '64 109 sw?<<<<<<<<<

Look everywhere.  Almost the entire truck is put together with pop rivets.
 If you can't unscrew it or unbolt it, it's a pop rivet! - Tony

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 14:53:42 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: AW (was: RN web) 

At 02:22 PM 2/16/96 -0800, Ben Smith wrote:
>Btw, when is the AW coming out?  

 John Hess appended a message to the main list yesterday--

:PS.  Thank you for your patience; the latest newsletter is back from the
:printers and will be arriving soon in mailboxes.

-Michael Carradine                                           <cs@crl.com>
 VP pro tem, LROA                                            510-988-0900

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 17:59:44 -0500
From: Michael Kirk <michaelk@infi.net>
Subject: Leaky Range Rover..

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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2nd try....

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	(Infinet-S-3.3) id SAA07136; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:39:46 -0500 (EST)
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 18:05:21 -0500
X-UIDL: 823661838.008
From: Michael Kirk <michaelk@infi.net>
Precedence: 	bulk
Errors-To: LRO-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net
X-To: Land Rover Digest <majordomo@land-rover.team.net>
X-CC: "Land Rover Owner Maj." <Land-Rover-Owner@uk.stratus.com>
Subject: Leaky Range Rover..
X-edited-by: LRO-Lite
Status: U
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

I know a leaky LR is not new, but a leaky RR ?? 

The rear latch leaks behind the 3rd stop light and I can't figure our 
how to fix it...anyone got any ideas?

It seems to leak thru the lock mechanism itself.  RR say's there is not 
a gasket under the handle/locking mechanism where it attaches to the 
metal frame arround the glass, but that is where the water appears to be 
comming from.  The little drainage hole is clear. I've regreased it 
cleaned it, made a gasket for the base.  Nothing seems to work.

Michael Kirk

92 RR
looking for a 87-89 RR ???

--------------67021F8FE51--

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 18:26:12 -0500
Subject: Disco/RR (was enterprise)

>>>The Disco may be better off road.<<<<

Some interesting quotes from Pop Science 10/95.

  A TEST RUN of four-wheel-drive technology in a
Michigan blizzard wasn't exactly in our advanced
planning, but the icy roads and driving snow added a
dimension to our test that isn't easy to duplicate. The
weather, plus the dry and slippery track results
brought home the conclusion that the biggest, most
complex, and most expensive sport utility in the
group is worth the money. With its long-travel, air-
supported suspension and four-wheel traction control,
the RangeRover 4.0 SE sedately plowed through
drifting snow, stayed stable in heavy cross winds on
the ice, and handled the multiple traction surfaces
with aplomb.  The Discovery was far less comforting, as
it swayed in the heavy cross winds and proved a
handful on the dry track lane-change maneuvers

The acid test of any four-wheel driveline is splitmu grade climbing. If the
power is permitted to leak out of one corner of the chassis, there's no
climbing this simulation of a slippery driveway or boat-launch ramp. Locked
or limited-slip center differentials aren't enough. What you need is
electronic traction control working at all four wheels. Only one of our test
SUVs came so equipped: the Land Rover Range Rover.
As the test results indicate, both the Explorer and the Grand Cherokee were
persuaded up the slope with assistance. By gingerly stepping into the parking
brake to keep the slippery side rear wheel from spinning, it was possible to
coax those two SUVs up and over the test hill. (Keep this trick in mind
because it might come in handy.) On the other hand, the traction-controlled
Range Rover clawed its way up with no such shenanigans. Its combined ABS and
traction-control system handles the necessary braking automatically. All the
driver need do is exercise some throttle restraint, because this is a
low-speed system incapable of modulating engine torque. Standing on the Range
Rover's gas pedal can overpower the brakes and cause fruitless wheel spin
In this and several other respects, the Range Rover is a cut far above the
SUV norm, just as you'd expect for its price tag. It demonstrated reasonable
all-around performance, excellent traction and stability, and luxurious
comfort whether the roads were dry and smooth or potholed and frosted with
ice. It's capable of feats that the Jeep Grand Cherokee, our favorite ride on
previous treks north, can't match. Two major Range Rover innovations - a
height-adjustable, electronically controlled air suspension and four-wheel
traction control-will surely filter down to more affordable sport utilities.
On the journey home, Mother Nature smacked us with one last reminder of who
holds the upper hand in winter: blowing, blinding white stuff that made us
feel like hapless figurines sealed inside a snow globe. We fought back
effectively from the climatecontrolled comfort of the Land Rover Range Rover
4.0 SE locked in the extended-mobility mode.

-Tony

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 19:00:09 -0500
From: Michael Kirk <michaelk@infi.net>
Subject: Re: Selectro Hubs

Wow, don't sugar coat it - tell us how you really feel.......:-0
> Hubs are a total waste of money on a Rover.  They are an expense, as they are
> one more component that is prone to FAILURE if not maintained.  They do
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
> your grill as use hubs.  I've got 1/3 million rough miles on Lulubelle, and
> the front end is the only part of the car that is original/factory stock.  So
> there.  - Tony

-- 
=============================================================  	 
        Michael Kirk "michaelk@infi.net"
       92 Range Rover   
      Graduate Student, MBA Program, Old Dominion University
      Norfolk, VA, USA  
       (804) 440-5383   
=============================================================

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 16 Feb 96 17:21:20 MST
Subject: Deciding on a used RR.

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
To the person(s) interested in buying a used RR, I have a '87 (NOT FOR
SALE) that I thought I'd share an opinion about...

As another put it, don't put a lot of faith in undocumented maintenance.
Mine has just over 100K now, (around 95K when I bought it) and it had
what I thought was a lifter tick. Turned out to be a bad cam. Check the
oil filler opening. Mine was pretty cruddy, and I kind-of figured that
they didn't change oil every 3K as they told me, (caveat emptor!) but
the price was right.

I don't want to fill up the list with stuff I already posted, so if you
want more info, please e-mail me directly and I'll send toy "my story."

BTW, I get around 13mpg around town with the Crane Cam, and "never" go
less than around 70mph on the freeway if traffic permits.

 #=====#         #========#          -------,___          _________
 |___|__\___     |___|__|__\___      |--' |  |  \_|_     //__/__|__\___
 | _ |   |_ |}   | _ |  |   |_ |}    |  _ |--+--|_  |    \__/-\_|__/-\_|}
 "(_)""""(_)"    "(_)"""""""(_)"    ||_/_\___|__/_\_|}      (_)    (_)
                                       (_)      (_)
 1971 "88" IIa   1970 "109" IIa     1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover
 LIC: LION B8    Historic plates     (Too hard to "draw")  rear Lock-Right
 Phoenix Arizona USA (602) 820-8052                        Crane cam
 Have: tools, knowledge, couch, etc...  Pager: (602) 275-2508 #6486

#=======#         _________           We make a living by what we get,
|__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
| _|  |   |_ |}  \__/-\_|__/-\_|}
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 22:39:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Selectro Hubs

>>Wow, don't sugar coat it - tell us how you really feel.......:-0

Oops!  Sorry.  It was a tough day.  Next time I'll go home and kick the dog.
- T

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 23:32:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Re: Trac Edge

John,

> Tom -- can you actually get BFG Trac Edges in the US? Also, can you get 
> 215-85-16's; they would be less of a jump from stock and may require no 
> cutting (by my calculations you'd get about 3/4 inch of added clearance 
> insteadt of the 1 1/2 inches you got)

    Trac Edges are available in the US, if you find a nice tire dealer
    and are insistent.  Be prepared to tell him "no, not Trail Edge,
    TRAC Edge" up front...and be prepared to reject the "Edge" (Just
    Plain Edge) tires they ship the first time...

    When I mentioned before that I was using "narrowish" Trac Edges on
    my SII 88, that size (215-85-16) is exactly what I was talking
    about.  235-85-16 would be the more direct equivalent of the 7.5x16
    (or at least that's what I had before when I had the Dunlop Radial
    Rovers, half of 'em metric sized, and half inch sized, and they were
    identical...)

    So in answer to your question, YES, 215-85-16 Trac Edges are
    availabel in the US.  I paid $107 each for mine.  High quote (they
    were all over the map!) was $155...

    Duncan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 21:36:33 -0800
From: uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Clinton D. Coates)
Subject: Birmabright door skin removal doover

I am removing the door skin of a rear door I acquired for
Emerson.  Some numbrain has done a pretty good butchery job on
it, drilling holes everywhere and painting it a lovely 1970's
metallic bronze ***YUCK***

Anyway, I fabbed a wee little gooseneck crowbar thingy about
8" long out of 1/8" rod with flattened ends.  It works a treat
for gently prying up the flanges of the skin.  Probably an old
screwdriver suitably heated and bent would work really well.

cheers

--
Clinton D. Coates      uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca
 __x___x_  /
|__|__|__\/__
|     |   |_ |

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 12:41:15 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Brake fluid and water

David Olley wrote:
>lopezba@atnet.at wrote:
>> apparently it is the water contained in the normal brake fluid that 
starts to boil. 
>It is not normal for brake fluid to contain water. If this is the case, 
>then the whole system should be drained and filled with fresh fluid.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>recommend changes at intervals.
>David Olley
Sorry, I was not exact in what I said. I did not mean to imply that brake 
fluid normally contains water, except that it does, of course, if it is in 
the hydraulic system, since nobody believes the manufacturers claim that it 
is hygroscopic and will deteriorate over time - everybody thinks it is a 
sales ploy, and nobody changes the brake fluid, so *normally* it contains 
water, except when it is in the original container, when it hopefully does not.

Hygros is the Greek word for moisture, BTW, so it is hygroscopic, not 
hydroscopic. Boy, the erudition on this list!

However - am I right in saying that silicone fluid does not attract moisture 
and will not start to boil when brakes overheat? (And will not cause 
corrosion in your valuable original steel brake pipes?) And what could the 
problem be that started all this?
Hungry for more technical/chemical/physical/roverical information
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria

------------------------------

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