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From: azw@aber.ac.uk
Subject: D90 Seat Rattle & Hood Latch Update
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 11:29:02 UNDEFINED

I can remember when LANDROVER owners used to EXPECT rattles. Rattles are 
soothing and drown out the engine noise.

Anyone else noticed how fragile they've got (the owners) since BMW took LR 
over? Or maybe since they started selling em to Americans.........

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk
Subject: Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system -Rep
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 11:42:52 UNDEFINED

>    I would think that one of the benefits of having full time FWD versus the
>part time, is that in icy conditions you have the benefit of a center diff while
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>loss of traction and control. I would lock the center diff only when I thought
>the probability of a tire losing traction was high. But hey, what do I know<g>.

I have found in bogs, where you dont want to cut surface, that you can get 
f\urther before sinking by leaving the centre diff unlocked. The spinout with 
it locked cuts the turf.

In other circumstances, I mostly drive alone, so I only use the difflock to 
get me out of somehwere I've gott stuck without it. Saves a lot of winching.

 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 11:46:22 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Grafton's graftin...

A further Aerogram arrived this morning from young Andrew,with the senders
address marked as "on beach in Malawi".Nice work if you can get it....

His comments on local diesel fuel are interesting,if economical with words.
Tanzanian:- "really shit",Kenyan,as UK:-"quite shit"Malawian:-"quite good
overall" Israeli:-"Land Rover 2286 diesel heaven".This could lead to a whole
new fuel classification system...And they are adding some of the stuff they
bought in Israel to the local stuff to make it go better.
The propshaft UJ are loose in the yokes on one vehicle,the projected repair
being to WELD the bearing caps in place,distortion/hammering/loctite etc
having failed.Oh well...
They've had two punctures so far,both on the same tyre,the latest being
caused by hitting a pothole at 40+ MPH,and crimping the tube.Suspension,
wheel, etc OK.Interestingly,the much maligned 2.25 *diesel* engines have
given no trouble *at all*(detractors please note).They will overheat only
if pushed flat out uphill in 2nd low,on tarmac,but not otherwise.
Andy thanks Tom Rowe for the troppo roof flap in door idea,they are
working marvellously,as,aparently is the home made raised air intake on
one of the vehicles.I wont attempt to describe this abortion,other than to
mention that it has drainpipe and a metal waste paper basket among its
components.But...if it works...what the hell!
On the beach in Malawi<sigh>...
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 14 Feb 96  7:09:09 EST
Subject: Re: Replacement seats for a 109 pickup

I have Volvo leather buckets in my 109 pikup They fit well, but don't allow for 
the center seat (too wide). Also, if you're of average height or taller, you 
might have visibility problems with them, as they're an inch or two higher than 
the old butt-busters.

Pity you're in Canada - I'd make  you a deal for mine...... -ajr

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 7:32:52 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:: Air Lockers, Warranty's

>Tom Walsh says; Dealer won't do Air lockers, and will void warranty.

Tom,
This seems to depend on the dealer you talk to. There are some people on 
the list that have had their dealer install Air lockers, and warranty them 
for the usual one year parts and labor. I believe these dealers were 
located out in the north west, (Colorado)?

Before I had my Air lockers installed I talked to my dealer, (LR Metro 
West in Natick, MA.) to find out about the warranty situation, and if they 
would have to do the installation. They told me that they didn't want to 
do it, and didn't want to get into a position where they had to warranty 
after market parts. (Also told me LR frowns on lockers in general. LR 
likes to rely on excellent suspensions to get their vehicles to go where 
they want them too.

As far as the factory warranty on the rest of the vehicle goes, LR Metro 
West called LRNA to verify that everything else was still covered. The 
only thing LRNA would no longer warranty was the differentials.

As it turned out I did have a major problem with the rear locker. Rovers 
North had done the installation. Rovers North and my dealer both worked 
together, at first to diagnose the problem. RN came and got my D90, 
repaired it, and returned it to LRMW for me.

I strongly suggest you have someone experienced with ARB Air lockers do 
the install. It is pretty straight forward as long as nothing goes wrong, 
but if there is a problem you'll be glad to have someone with extensive 
differential knowledge trying to figure it out and fix it.

I have had other warranty work done after this with no problem whatsoever. 
As always the quality of the dealer has a lot to do with all of this.

Just my own experience with all of this.
Good luck,
Barnett
Childress
95 D90
Dual Air lockers

------------------------------

From: /G=Curtis/S=Palmer@mhs-olympics.attmail.com
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 07:46:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Renewed Traditions - Imported Vehicles

Date: Wednesday, 14 February 1996 7:41am ET
From: Curtis.Palmer@ACOGTAO
Subject: Re: Renewed Traditions - Imported Vehicles

 the original transmission of this seemed to have
fallen prey to Majordomo's antics last week

on Tuesday, 6 Feb 1996 --- Hank Gregory wrote...

> Sean Sinkule and I have spoken a few times this
> past week....he seems very nice and his vehicles
> seem to be reasonably priced...

I went to see him personally after he returned from his last
trip to the UK.  A friend and I reviewed a video tape of his
inventory and refurbishments underway.  Selection seemed
very very good and he can have the LR's built to suit.  He's
due to have a shipment into Georgia's port (Brunswick) this
week... hopefully we'll be able to see one or two of his
units before their new owners take delivery.  Hell, we even
offered to drive them the 250 miles back to Atlanta at no
charge <grin> just to get a feel for them!

> Does any one have any experience to relate about
> Sean and his business?

He is a state-side rep for AVON Land Rover (I think I got
that right).  He is located here in Atlanta, GA USA.

Perhaps someone on the LRO list can offer their
opinions/experience about Avon's UK operation?

> I am hoping to avoid a Roverworks scenario.

I don't know about this.

====
I too am considering working through Renewed Traditions for
my future LR purchase.

Curtis
(my LR only exists in my dreams at the moment)
---------------------------------------------------------
  .--.    .--.    .--.
 /    \  /    \  /    \      Curtis V Palmer - Manager
(     .)+.    .)+.     )   CAD Systems/Physical Planning
 \   //  \\  //  \\   /
  '-('    '+('    '+-'         Atlanta Committee for
     \    /  \    /              the Olympic Games
      '--'    '--'
---------------------------------------------------------
          > palmecp@mhs-olympics.attmail.com <

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 05:15:14 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Telecommunications Act -- Correct URL

OOPS.  Try http://home.earthlink.net/~johnliu/cda.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:40:11 -0500
From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi)
Subject: Putting together order in Boston, MA

Hi all.  This message is mainly for folks in the Boston, MA, USA area.

I'm planning on ordering a few things from Performance in the UK.  If you
haven't seen their catalog, you may want to know that they have many hard
to get (in my experience) items for coil sprung Landies.  (They probably
have stuff for earlier models, but that's not my interest.)  Their prices
seem pretty good too.  If anyone in the area is interested in joining
forces on this order, drop me a line.  We may be able to save a bit on the
shipping.
-Bob Virzi

  rvirzi@gte.com             Think Globally. ===
  +1(617)466-2881                            === Act Locally!

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 09:12:59 -0500
Subject: Re: LR Quality

>>So... enjoy your Land Rovers! For many years! 

>>cheerz
>>Jim - I love `em all!

BRAVO!!

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 09:21:24 -0500
Subject: Re: '97 NAS Defenders to be Available? In auto trans?

In a message dated 96-02-13 18:36:19 EST, you write:

>I would love to see an automatic Defender, and so would a lot of buyers
>here in the USA. I think automatic is great for low-speed offroading,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>practical,
>more comfortable version of the Defender as an alternative to the more
>car-like Discovery. I for one really like the interior of the D90 SW.

Roger,
Your comments on the automatic Defender are sound, make excellent business
sense, and would probably increase sales potential...I still say Yuck!  

John.   :>)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 09:23:59 EST
From: rdl@NomuraNY.COM (Rob Legerio)
Subject: Re: '95 DISCO STOLEN!!!

>In case it was just some joy riding kids....does it have any distinguishing 
>marks/accessories?  I'm in the area and I guarantee I'll notice an errant Disco 
>before the cops are able to figure out what it is.

Ditto for me.

This kind of thing is all too common in our area. As more
discos get sold, the more chance of them getting stolen rises.
I asked if the dealer had any theft stats when I purchased my 90.
They told me that since there was probably not much of a market
for the parts, all I'd realy have to worry about was joy-riders.
When the thieves start to realize that many of the drive-train
parts are shared between various years and models, I think it
will be a problem. A rag-topped 90 doesn't offer much protection.
I've got a LOJACK and a good alarm system (including interior
motion detetector for when the top's off) in mine. I installed
all this stuff myself as well as replaced the center cubby box
with a box from Tuffy security products that's supposed to go
in a Suburban.

Hope you get your Disco back,
Rob

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 08:33:14 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: '95 DISCO STOLEN!!!

> Sometime between the hours of 21:00 on 2/11 and 07:30 on 2/12 my '95
> Discovery was stolen from the parking lot at my home in Stamford,
> Connecticut. No broken glass, no witnesses, not a trace.....so much for a
> sophisticated alarm?  Unfortunately, I fear that the Avalon Blue vehicle
> for which I endured 5 months on a waiting-list, is now in a zillion parts. 

My sympathies for your loss. But it does go to show how useless most 
car alarms are. Unless it is so loud as to make it unbearable to sit 
in the vehicle, thiefs pretty much ignore them, as do most people. 
They go off so much that people have begun to ignore them. How many 
have you heard that you don't pay any attention to? Just another form 
of noise pollution that we now take for granted.
I think the best theft proofing would be a serious disabler for the 
car, or a silent hidden alarm with a tracking device. Maybe a smoke 
generator if you could find one that won't damage the interior.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 09:44:00 EST
From: rdl@NomuraNY.COM (Rob Legerio)
Subject: Re: Fuel cut-off symptoms in D90

>I was also told that if I ever had to leave the truck at the dealer, to
>always take the rental car, even if it just sits, because it puts a hotter
>under their bottom to get yours out.
 
I did take a rental while my AC was being put in (by the way this was
at a different dealer than where the fuel cut-off was replaced). I think
they did the rush/hack job in this case because I had a rental car.
Catch 22. Arghhhh.
 
>I'm curious about the diagnostic tool you used (I'm an ex-CARB guy from
>California...emissions control central).  For 1995 & earlier, I thought that
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>prohibitively expensive to buy?  Do you have one, or did the dealer set it up
>to check codes while you drove?
 
There's an on-board diag display that comes with the LR. Look around under
your dash near the ECU. It's a black box about the shape and size of a
cigarett pack.  It has two digit LED display. In my D90 its clipped under
the dash on the passenger side between the end of the AC unit and the side
wall.
 
Rob
94 D90

------------------------------

From: Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com
Date: 14 Feb 96 09:49:01 -0500
Subject: New Manual Locker from PowerTrax

PowerTrax, the folks who manufacture the Lock-Right and Performance Locker 
automatic locking differentials, have announced a new manual locking 
differential. Unlike the ARB, this unit uses electro-magnetic solenoids 
rather than compressed air and is called the Command Locker. Details are 
sketchy at this point, apparently pending Patent approval. Info came from 
March 4-Wheel and Off-Road. I like the idea of an on-board compressor but 
was never to keen on being dependent on one for my diffs to lock (ala ARB). 
The Command Locker solution may turn out to be a little more reliable (fewer 
components and failure points) and more field maintainable (just carry a 15 
foot length of speaker wire and jump directly from the battery if the wiring 
or switch go bad).

I tried to look up the patent but the Internet Multicasting Service no 
longer provides patent text on-line and EDS/SPO charges for it. EDS/SPO did 
show numerous patents in the area of locking differentials approved in the 
last two years.

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:23:46 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Replacement seats for a 109 pickup

>I have Volvo leather buckets in my 109 pikup They fit well, but don't
>allow for
>the center seat (too wide).
*Leather* seats? And Ben's going ga-ga about that *awful* export 90,Jon's
got a Wange Wovah,Pierre's bought a <gag> *Saab*99 (sounds like an ice cream).
What happened to good old fashioned discomfort,that needs the extra tot or two,
or      (Insert suitable number),to suitably disperse? If you arrive fully
refreshed you dont need no stinkin refreshments!Mind you,what they're going to
say down the Woodcock when Pierre pitches up in that thing,doesnt bear thinking
about.Something along the lines of"Small gin and tonic,M'Lord?",I imagine.
And *why* Richer,havent you used your ingenuity and made a smaller middle seat,
(also of leather)?
You'll all be wanting *heaters* next......
Honestly,kids,these days.
Uncle Mike.
PS Have the club stickers arrived yet,Dix?

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 09:07:32 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: New Jersey Legislation

The real question is how much money did the auto manufacturers pay to 
lobyists?

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 09:13:03 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Fuel filters

Andy grice writes:
> Several people have mentioned problems with plastic fuel filters.  NAPA, 
 Advance, Big-A and J.C. Whitless all sell these glass units with 
 *replaceable* elements.  The ends are steel, but the center is a glass 
 cylinder so contamination can be seen easily. Buy the one with the 1/4" 
 inlet.  Last time I looked, it was only $5.98 and with three spare
> filters. 

I can highly recommend them if you don't want to spend $100 on  
a Racor filter/seperator. I've been using these little glass filters 
for years and they are great. They'll even prevent the passage of 
water. So if you use them and your car dies with the symptoms of out 
of gas, check the filter to see if it's full of water. It happened to 
me. BUT, if it keeps out water, you know it will keep out dirt.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: stretch@vol.net
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 10:26:34 PST
Subject: RE: New Jersey Legislation 

---------------Original Message---------------

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
 * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc

As I am considering a possible relocation to New Jersey, I was 
amazed to run
across a description of  legislation in that state, apparently 
signed into
law on June 2, 1995, which would seem to seriously threaten the 
future of
our beloved Rovers and Land Rovers (Mine, a 1970 3500S Rover and a 
1965 109
Dormobile).    This  is  #SCS-1700 which, according to a letter in 
the
February '96 issue of Hemmings (p.1607), states the following:

      "  All vehicles over four years old will be required to 
report to new
centralized testing facilities for 'Enhanced Emissions 
Inspections'.  If
your car or truck fails this test - the vehicle MUST be taken off 
the road.
Only three percent of those vehicles failing the test and having 
already
spent a minimum of $450 for repairs will be granted a waiver allowing them
to remain on the road for two more years.  You have no appeal and no other
options"

The letter further states that "Almost no vehicles over 10 years old are
expected to pass...vehicles failing the new enhanced emissions test will
have their registration renewal automatically denied by the state.  Such
vehicles cannot be sold to any other individual or dealer and essentially
become FORFEITTED TO THE STATE....Owners of failed vehicles must surrender
their license plates within 45 days, and since NJ law already prohibits you
from having an unlicensed vehicle on your own property, local law
enforcement can then seize it at will."  It goes on to describe enforcement;
i.e. roadblocks, automated sensing devices, etc.

Does anyone living in or about NJ have any information on this legislation
and its likely effect on our "classics"?

Warren Smith

gwsmith@selu.edu

----------End of Original Message----------

-------------------------------------
Name: jcollins
E-mail: stretch@vol.net
Temp assgn:  Hong Kong
Date: 02/14/96
Time: 10:26:34
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 15:22:20 UT
From: "Matthew Loxton" <mloxton@msn.com>
Subject: IVECO Diesel

HELP!

I have been offered an IVECO diesel for a 1982 Range-Rover with the LT77 5 
speed box.
Has anyone heard of this make of engine. Supposedly it is an Italian affiliate 
and is represented world-wide.

The motor is a 4 cyl 2499cc, 245 Nm at 2000 rpm, 85KW, rev range up to 4400. 
Weight of 230Kg.

Apparently this has been fitted to many Land Rover models very successfully, 
(so the salesman says)

Any red flags anbody?

Cheers
Matthew Loxton
ZA					S-III
					Range-Rover 1982 (hopefully)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 07:30:05 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: D90 Seat Rattle & Hood Latch Update

At 11:29 14.02.96 UNDEFINED, azw@aber.ac.uk wrote:

I can remember when LANDROVER owners used to EXPECT rattles. Rattles are 
soothing and drown out the engine noise.

Anyone else noticed how fragile they've got (the owners) since BMW took LR 
over? Or maybe since they started selling em to Americans.........
----------------

I don't think Land Rover owners are any more fragile than before, least ways
not American LROs.  I'd attribute it to an expectation on our parts that
Land Rover and its employees put in as much attention to detail and quality
control as we American LROs put into the products and services we provide.
Designing a hood latch release to only work properly if mounted for a
right-hand drive vehicle doesn't do well in at least 95% of the world.  Land
Rover claims to produce high-quality, high-end vehicles that it expects can
compete in the world marketplace.  Some examples seem to suggest otherwise, QED.

As we say on this side of the Atlantic, "If you can't run with the big dogs,
stay on the porch."

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 10:03:43 EST
From: "Hadley, William H." <whadley@INETGATE.ushmm.org>
Subject: Pogo stick

     It seems that my shift lever has a life of its own in 3rd. When I 
     shift to third it feels rough going through the gate then while 
     alternating between acceleration and and braking the stick pops back 
     and forth. I also have a tough time getting it out of gear. Is it ugly 
     or can I fix it without pulling the gearbox.
     
     Thanks 
     
     Will
     whadley@ushmm
     '62 IIa 88" Stationwagon  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 08:05:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Renewed Traditions - Imported Vehicles

On Wed, 14 Feb 1996 /G=Curtis/S=Palmer@mhs-olympics.attmail.com wrote:

> He is a state-side rep for AVON Land Rover (I think I got
> that right).  He is located here in Atlanta, GA USA.

Has anybody in North America or the UK had direct experience with Avon?  
I seem to recall somebody (in Texas?) buying a 109 sight unseen and being 
somewhat shocked at what arrived on their doorstep (or dock).  It may 
have been a different outfit, though.  

Keep us posted on developments, Curtis.  This could get interesting.

Rgds,

Walt          * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover              * 
              * Davis, California       | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 08:22:23 EST
Subject: Removing Aluminum Skin from Doors

Someone asked about this the other day . . .

I rebuilt two series door tops, including skin removal and 
reinstallation.  I used a wide-blade straight screwdriver to 
gently pry up the folded-over edges, but the important thing 
to remember is to *not* pry the edges up all the way in one 
pass -- do a whole edge a little bit, then raise it up some 
more for the whole length.  3, 4, or 5 iterations should get 
you to the 90-degree point.  This should help prevent 
stretching the sheet.  If a crack develops, be sure to 
stop-drill it at either end using a small bit.  When 
reinstalling, use a piece of wood to help bend the whole 
length back down at the same time.  When it gets close, then 
finish it off directly with a mallet.

If one goes to all the trouble of deskinning, one should 
definitely sandblast the steel and give it the best possible 
coating treatment before reattaching the skin -- powdercoat 
or 2-component paint.  Also clean, treat, and paint the 
inside part of the skin that's in contact with the steel 
parts, the idea being to insulate the two different metals 
as well as possible to fend off galvanic attack.  Lastly, 
use some epoxy or autobody sealant to seal the edges of the 
skin (and any holes from stop-drilling cracks) before 
putting on the paint topcoats.  If more details are 
required, please contact me directly.

Hope this helps.  I'll do the rest of the door panels on my 
1960 109-inch SW "some day."

Regards,
Hank

(Thanks to all who responded with Disco quirks.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 16:30:19 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: New Manual Locker from PowerTrax

Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com wrote:
>Unlike the ARB, this unit uses electro-magnetic solenoids
> rather than compressed air and is called the Command Locker.
> The Command Locker solution may turn out to be a little more reliable

Well we all know how electrics behave in an offroad environment - Lucas 
or not. Compressed air seems to be a better solution really. All the 
electrics are away from the crud. If the solenoid is outside the axle 
case, this could be a real problem area. As for using bits of wire to 
jump the thing in a failure situation - well .....!!

Any system that has a manual override must be favourite (see my earlier 
mail on the subject of KAM diff lockers).
-- 
David Olley
.....................................................................................
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 08:46:39 -0800
Subject: Re: LR Quality

Jim,

I don't think anybody is disgruntled with the engineering or design
at all. For me and others who are voicing complaints I think it
comes down to the idea that we paid alot and expect the guts of the
car to function properly and accurately and not make us feel
vulnerable. I want to be able to take my Disco out far away from
the beaten path but still feel vulnerable because one manufacturing
problem after another. The design and engineering aren't the
problem; it's the manufacturing!! Let's face it, when hoses,
screws, bolts, couplings etc, aren't properly tightened and cause
various fluids and electrical components to leak, short, and so on,
it is, to say the least, disconcerting to try and go anywhere.

One day after having a handbrake sensor replaced, we had to have
the towed in, AGAIN, because the transmission heat sensor was
faulty. This is the 5th time in 8 months that we've been towed.
Three times the vehicle wouldn't go at all. I don't want to go
4-wheeling and get stranded because some yahoo didn't tighten down
a bolt properly. Apparently, the factory workers are a bad lot.

My input for what it's worth!!

On Feb 13,  9:49pm, jpappa01@interserv.com wrote:
> Subject: Re: 	LR Quality

RE: the recent thread about LR quality...

What can I say. LRO's tend (probably rightfully) to be the harshest
critics of
all.

<snip>

I don't really think that there is anything else out there built to
a stronger
standard. Engineering overkill can be found in many of the Land
Rover's
functional areas. Nobody builds a perfect car! Because people build
them! So
do a simple strength/weakness analysis on a sheet of paper. I can
almost
guarantee the outcome! The Rover will always have far more ticks in
the
strength side of the paper if you use any degree of objectivity!

<snip>

 I've never seen a brand yet
that doesn't have problems from time to time. Everyone can build a
bad car
from time to time. But for every bad time I hear or read about on
the list or
see in our service area - I am thrilled to hear from happy owners
tell me
excitedly about neat experiences that they have had in their Rovers
- both
new/old! Look at this healthy LRO Digest!

cheerz
Jim - I love `em all!

`67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid
`67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid
`68 2B 110 F/C diesel
`70 P6B 3500S
`90 Range Rover County
`93 D110 (#457/500)
`95 D90

>-- End of excerpt from jpappa01@interserv.com

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 97 10:50:51 -0600
From: "John B. Friedman" <johannes@scribes.english.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: IVECO Diesel (comments)

I believe that this is the same deisel that the Izuzu trooper used i  
for a while and that is sold in the IVECO trucks big panel trucks one  
sees around. Supposed to be a prettygood deisel and was used in the  
English version iof the Montero I think.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 12:10:10 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: Lowet frame prices ever?

Dear All,
        Dixon K. made reference to chassis prices, and I wanted to give
those thinking about it a bit more information, for the US side. We ship
frames all the time, and I have included some figures from our most recent
shippments, one in Nov. 95, these aren't what I think figures, these are
what it costs, and the good and bad points of doing it yourself.
        Marsland Galv. 88 w/ removable x memeber (no VAT) roughly 625 pounds
        Consolidated container shipping from UK to US for one chassis
alone, with US customs and duty runs about 750 dollars. Then depending on
your shipping company you may have to pay a bit of truck shipping in the
UK, most likely only about 50 pounds. Then the chassis will arrive at a
local freight forwarder, and you have to go get it, or have them deliver
it. Pick it up if you can, they charge a lot. So lets add it up, 625 pounds
is 1000 US at todays rate. Then add the shipping of 750 US, then a small
bit for delievery, about 100 US. So now your total is 1850 dollars. Your
shipping company may be a bit less if you do some paperwork yourself. Those
are the facts from our last order. The way you make money off chassis is
volume, Rovers North etc. are not charging a lot, especially if you add the
time and hastles of doing it yourself.
        Now the bad points. The one and only time we shipped consolidated
freight,( now we ship our own containers) the frame got pretty trashed. The
packers do not care that your frame should be handled with care. It could
be in a container with a bunch of Jello, or engine blocks and sneakers, you
never know. All the rear body tabs were folded flat, and the front spring
hangers were also bent. This causes the galv. coating to crack and fall
off. Not a lot af damage, but annoying for your new restoration.
        So look at both the good and bad points. The prices look good in
LRO, but in practice you should know the entire story of what it takes.
        See ya.

Mike Smith, East Coast Rover Co.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:02:26 GMT
From: Gerald Tan <gtan@bbchw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: '95 DISCO STOLEN!!!

In your message dated Wednesday 14, February 1996 you wrote :

> I think the best theft proofing would be a serious disabler for the 
> car, or a silent hidden alarm with a tracking device. 

You'll be pleased to know that the New Range Rover has a "serious" immobiliser, 
as well as an ultra intelligent/complicated alarm system fitted as standard. I 
believe they haven't had one nicked yet!

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Gerald Tan    EMail gtan@bbchw.demon.co.uk                              |
| Purely my own opinions - not those of my employer                       |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: tning@gpu.com
Date: 14 Feb 96 12:16:12 
Subject: I'm not receiving any message

Hi all,
 I know I'm on the land-rover-owner list and I know I subscribed it at both my 
school and my work addresses.  How come I'm not getting anything at work?  
Could somebody help me out here?  Thanks.

Tony
tkn9389@hertz.njit.edu
tning@gpu.com

------------------------------

From: paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash)
Subject: Re: Buying a Land Rover in South Africa
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 09:09:13 +1100

> From: basil@ovisun.ovi.ac.za (Basil Allsopp)

> Series LRs are not very common in South Africa, and most of them have been
> re-engined.  (This is because SA is BIG and the main road network is excellen

I've been out of the country for a year, so my knowledge is a bit
out-of-date.  However, I've seen a fair number of s2/3 Land Rovers
for sale in Joburg/Pretoria.  Most with the normal 2 1/4 petrol
engine, and an occasional diesel.  The most common conversions seem
to be the big Chev motors (2.8 or 4.2) or Ford V6 (2.5/3.0).

> route expect to pay about R60,000 for a (hopefully) reliable LR.  Ask about
> the range of any Series LR with a big petrol engine, you may find it to be
> about 500 km! 

I bought a s3 diesel for about R15,000 in 1991.  Sold it for R22,000
a year ago.  By then it had a total engine overhaul, recon gearbox,
full-length canopy (2-door LWB), roof rack, high-lift jack, etc.  
Have prices _really_ gone up that much?  

You can also try:

Belltrade in Pretoria (parts & recon series vehicles)
Rhino Rovers in Kyalami (unknown quality, seem expensive)
Leamer's Land Rovers (v. good reputation for series vehicles) in
   Johannesburg
Peco Motors (land rover agents) in Pretoria -- talk to the 
   mechanics about series vehicles, many of them own them.

I'm afraid that I don't have any phone numbers/addresses for them
(the phone book is 6,000km away!).

	paul

PS:  Basil, do you or your wife work on Babesia taxonomy?  My wife 
was at OPVH (over the road) & is obsessive about B. Canis, which is
why we're away at the moment (she's working on malaria pathophys.).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 12:42:39 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Series Seats Butt Destroyers?- Yes or No?

<snip> 
the old butt-busters.

Pity you're in Canada - I'd make  you a deal for mine...... -ajr

Butt busters? Man, I've put some miles on my SIII and I haven't had a single 
busted butt from the seats. The real buttock bandit here is the suspension. I 
cant imagine getting too comfy in any seat in that thing. Also a handy tip for 
those with a "sensitive backside": Try shifting from one position to another, 
until you get to the point where the entire gluteal region is numb. That way you
can enjoy the ride and concentrate on more important things like adjusting your 
earplugs. 

Dave "No extra padding down there either" B.

PS. How 'bout fitting a Salisbury Rear?

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 12:39:22 -0500
Subject: Re: New Jersey Legislation

>Gee, you think they'd clean up the damn refineries next to the New Jersey 
>Turnpike before they went to attack the old cars....I commuted from NY to 
>Philadelphia on the weekends for three years...probably sucked down a lot of

>nasties from those plants.
>.
Funny you should mention that, because it is usually BECAUSE of the  oil
refineries (and similar major polluters like power plants...) that the
"buy-back" programs  (aka: junker, clunker programs) exist.  It is simple
emissions credits trading.  The refineries don't have to update the pollution
control equipment  on their plant, or can "work" off a fine for excessive
pollution by scrapping enough older cars to equal the "offending" pollution
tonnage. 

 Older cars are usually the focus of these programs because they lack
catalytic converters and thus are by default "gross polluters,"  although
some programs include specific mid 70s and 80s autos that have an infamous
history of becoming gross polluters...usually due to design defects, cruddy
parts used, etc...   

The programs ususally go like this:  a company, say Unocal Oil Co., has to
pay a  pollution "fine" of 15 tons, because e.g. they forgot to change the
scrubbers on their refinery and they were inoperatiive for 8 months.  They
get caught by air quality monitoring programs, and have to fess up.   They
can: 1) pay a fine in money, 2) increase their pollution control equipments
effectiveness to reduce the pollution above the previous level to mitigate
and make up for their deficiency, OR 3)  they can permanently remove from the
public enough clunkers to eqyual 15 tons pollution.  Say, 800 1968 thru 1975
American made automobiles ,( this is just an example, don't do the math on
me...). 

They put an add in the paper, offering to "buy" these cars for $800 or $1000
each, and people start bringing incars.  The problem for us, the restorer or
classic car person, is that all the engine parts on these cars must be
DESTROYED, or else the engines would be recycled and put back on the road,
defeating the program's purpose.  You don't have people bringing in restored
'66 Ford Mustang fastbacks with original 4 barrel 289s, contrary to the SEMA
scare tactics, but it is true that all those blocks will be crushed, all
those intake manifolds melted, and all those old carbs smashed.  KEY POINT:
 Usually, a car won't be brought in unless its value is LESS than the buy
back price.  

Does this discriminate against the financially poorer public? Probably, as
 who is in need of used parts on older cars besides restorers? Poor people.
 There are usually some provisions in these programs to "address" this issue,
like a minimum buy-back fee to be paid for a car.  And, there have even been
credit companies involved to help people get cheaper/easier credit to buy a
new, or newer car.  (Hmmm, think the auto companies like this provision?  The
lenders?  The big power brokers?  Every issue has its "other" side...)

And it is this idea of not discriminating against the underclass (I just mean
people who don't have the means to buy new cars, please don't read any more
into it, I don't want to write a paragraph defining my term) that makes me
not believe the validity of that initial post regarding the emissions testing
legislation  in New Jersey.  To be sure, it will always be this group that
gets the short end of the stick, but,  as written, that law  is FAR too
harsh.  There will be appeals, and a more equitable method reached.  It will
be similar to California, where you need to show that the auto has all the
OEM installed equipment, and if it fails the smog test, you will need to show
an effort to comply, then you'll be legal.  But they aren't gonna take your
car off the road and confiscate it.  If you think LA had a riot after the
Rodney King verdict, watch the dockworkers go off after the "state" comes and
takes there car away...fuggedaboudit.  

I could be wrong, certainly, I don't live there, I didn't read the bill, I
just have seen ideas go up and down the pathway in Cal and this wouldn't fly
there, I can't see it flying out East.  

If the person considering moving there calls and gets info straight from the
government, I hope he posts it to the list.  Dropping an editorial letter
like that on the list without follow up is dangerous, and really leads to
rumour mongering, and undermines many good efforts at informing the public of
 government plans.  

Again, I don't necessarily agree with all these measures, I just try to
convey the principles and logic behind some of them, and I get upset when, at
the hands of the media, a lot of hard, serious, thoughtful work gets spun
into a yarn of quarter truths and scare tactics.  I am sure many of you in
your own fields and areas of study see this happen and understand my point.
 Let people make their own decision, afterall this is America, but damnit,
give them the truth first.

John.  94 D90, WiscoRover
(good think my truck is so high, I was able to step off the soapbox right
into my drivers seat and skidaddle outta town...)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 11:09:06 -0700 (MST)
From: Tebbin Salvesen <tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us>
Subject: Re: '95 DISCO STOLEN!!!

My RR has a theft device! I use the rollover fuel cutoff switch under the
drivers seat when I park in questionable areas. They may bust up the key
lock to try to start it but it wont go anywhere cause it won't start! They
will move on if its not fast and easy.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:17:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Lowet frame prices ever?

>         Dixon K. made reference to chassis prices, and I wanted to give
> those thinking about it a bit more information, for the US side. We ship

	I can't speak for USA experience, just Canada, though there are
	a good number of people up here with a lot of experience bringing 
	in stuff by the metric tonne from the UK.  Why don't we buy the
	stuff in the USA?  Well, Cdn$1.00 = .7235 cents US.  For starters,
	take the USA price, multiple by 1.38 (or so), add GST, add 
	shipping...  The Northern Peso is sending us to the mother country
	that are not afraid of dealing with shippers and Customs.  If US
	suppliers were smarter, they would keep a whack of US Customs 
	forms on their desk that would allow the Canadian customer to
	claim back USA Customs duties.  Why should we have to pay them?
	We don't if we go to the source...  If an American buys something
	via Canada, and it is handled correctly paperwork wise, he can 
	claim back the Canadian GST.  There is no reason the American
	customer has to pay down our deficit (the forms for him to claim
	are at every Customs post) and there is certainly no way that we 
	should have to pay for the American gov't running amok.

>         Marsland Galv. 88 w/ removable x memeber (no VAT) roughly 625 pounds

	620 as of Friday.  Normal frame is 450, heavy duty is 550.  The
	galvanised frame is also heavy duty.  To round out the marsland 
	(no VAT) prices:  Airportable black = 610, airportable galv = 660.
	109 basic = 800; galvanised = 850.  109 1 ton = 885, galv = 935.
	There is also hi-cap and heavy duty Stage 1.

> freight,( now we ship our own containers) the frame got pretty trashed. The
> packers do not care that your frame should be handled with care. It could

	Insure the order.

>         So look at both the good and bad points. The prices look good in
> LRO, but in practice you should know the entire story of what it takes.

	While the pain of shipping you describe is probably true with frames,
	it certainly is not the case with pallets of parts, the condition
	that the stuff arrives, the costs, clearing (no duty here, just 
	Canada's own homegrown VAT, the GST).  Rather painless actually.
	The only hassle is that we pay basically double the UK -> Montreal
	rate to get it to someones driveway in Ottawa.  Why bother and not
	get it in Montreal?  Quebec and Canada have an agreement whereby 
	Canada Customs collects Quebec sales tax.  It's cheaper to bring
	it all the way to Ottawa and clear it here, because Ontario and
	Canada don't have an agreement.  FYI, the last order amounted to
	a metric tonne on two pallets.  The shipping cost was roughly
	US$900 to a private garage in Ottawa.  An HD galv. 88 frame
	weights 155 kg, though size distorts things. (11'3" x 5' x 18")
	US$540 (+ shipping) for a set of 88 springs vs. $360 (approx) 
	(+ shipping) Canadian is a hell of a difference.  Get four people
	together and the cost to your door will be less than standing at 
	a US suppliers door, with you yet to get home...  but I digress.
	If the customer is near to one of the big USA eastern ports,
	the process should be simple.

	Whether or not it is worth going direct to the UK comes down to what
	you think your time is worth.  If you don't mind dealing with the
	gov't bureaucracy, the problems with getting an item from A to B,
	it is cheaper to do it.  If not, pay someone someone else to do
	it (read ABP, RN, BP, etc...) with the premium.

	Rgds,

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 14 Feb 96 14:21:14 EST
Subject: Re: New Manual Locker from PowerTrax

>> Well we all know how electrics behave in an offroad environment - Lucas 
or not. Compressed air seems to be a better solution really. All the 
electrics are away from the crud. If the solenoid is outside the axle 
case, this could be a real problem area. As for using bits of wire to 
jump the thing in a failure situation - well .....!!

Any system that has a manual override must be favourite (see my earlier 
mail on the subject of KAM diff lockers). <<

    I just finished installing the ARB in my series III this weekend. One of the
best things about it is its simplicity. It is basically a four-spider diff (the
rover diff is two), with a tubular piston, a locking gear, a "U" shaped O-ring,
and the air line coupler. It seems, most of the diff parts are used in all of
their lockers. So they are designed for much stronger engines that the 2.25 or
even the 3.9/4.0L. It should last a lot longer than the stock diff. The rubber
seals will require replacing at some point, but I have never heard of anyone
needing to do this, (Other than when defective from the factory) and there are
people who have been running these things for years. If I could change one
thing, it would be to make a manual override, but that would make the system
severely more complicated. I think in the long run, the simpler the system, the
less trouble you will have, and the less likely you will need to have a manual
override in the first place. 
    The compressor and solenoids are more likely to give you trouble, but I you
really had to, I think you could bypass this with the airfill line to you spare
tire. It is also possible to sever the air line, but this type of problem is
inherent in any design that is remotely activated. Besides mine runs along my
brake flex line, and if the air line gets cut, the brakes will probably be out
also.
    I will be interested in hearing what people think about the KAM and
PowerTrax Mag-Lock, when they come out and are put to the test. I don't know how
they are going to compare price wise, but unless they are much cheaper, I
wouldn't want to be the one to try them first.

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise"
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 14-Feb-1996

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 12:06:02 -0800
Subject: Re: New Jersey Legislation

The buy back programs are a nothing but a self-serving program designed for the 
benefit of the car companies and industrial polluters.  Its unfortunate that the 
 well meaning efforts of people to improve the environment are bastardized by 
some of the lobbying effort put into these legislations.

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

From: tning@gpu.com
Date: 14 Feb 96 15:39:33 
Subject: Help! Still not getting any message!

Hi all,
 I unsubscribed myself and subscribed to the list again.  (See the message 
below.)  And I'm still not getting any message!  Help!!!

Tony
tkn9389@hertz.njit.edu
tning@gpu.com

cc:  
From: Majordomo @ playground.sun.com @ smtp
Date: 02/14/96 11:22:41 AM
Subject: Majordomo results: -No Subject-

--

>>>> subscribe land-rover-owner
Succeeded.
 

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: Discovery Fuel Cutoff
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:11:23 -0800

Isn't the push button switch in the engine bay of the Discovery on the
fenderwell by the fuse block, the fuel cutoff (resetter?) If so, where is
the fuel cutoff sensor (that tells the computer the Disco has rolled over
and to stop the fuel pump)? I'd seen mention to some ideas for immobilzing
the disco by having a hidden switch that cuts out the fuel pump/injector and
I was wondering where the best place to tap into that circuit would be?

Any ideas? (you don't have to tell me where your hidden switch is, if you
don't want to)
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

Date: 	Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:18:35 -0800
From: cyoungso@direct.ca (Chris Youngson)
Subject: Re: Replacement seats for a 109 pickup

>Does anyone know of any reasonable North American source high
>backed seats (ones that have head support) that can be bought,
>begged, stolen or adapted from other vehicles?

>--
>Clinton D. Coates		uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca
>*Emerson* 61 lwb pickup.....mostly runs
>If it doesn't leak, its not a Land Rover

I'm installing Porsche 914 seats. They are one piece, high back, made 
of fibreglass. 73

Chris Youngson, VE7CST
West Vancouver, BC
1965 109

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 14 Feb 96 17:08:29 EST
Subject: Re: '95 DISCO STOLEN!!!

>>You'll be pleased to know that the New Range Rover has a "serious"
immobiliser<<

You wouldn't be refering to the Lucas Electrical System would you???

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise"
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 14-Feb-1996

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:14:58 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: D90 SWs ( AIR LOCKERS, OME, Trac -edges )

On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, Rick Larson wrote:
 
> (snip) I suppose a lot of D90 owners share the blame for 
>bitching about hard to shift transmissions, tire noise, lack 
>of carpet, roll up windows, etc......

Dear Rick, 
 I suspect that the above gripes come from NON-D90 owners: magazine 
reviewers or people who chose *other* vehicles. The things you list are 
some of the many reasons that I BOUGHT a D90.
 If Land Rover wants to widen the appeal of the D90 by changing it, it 
stands to reason that some of the current owners may find such changes 
less appealing.  Also, depending on how the D90 changes, Land Rover runs 
the risk of the D90 cutting into the 'market' of folks who would have 
choosen a Discovery or possibly even a Range Rover.

Best wishes,
David

------------------------------

From: MHaeri@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:36:09 -0500
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

please cancel my subscription to your mailing.
Thank you very m

------------------------------

From: MHaeri@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:36:52 -0500
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

please cancel this subscription.  Thank you

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 22:58:38 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: '95 DISCO STOLEN!!!

Tom Rowe wrote:

> a silent hidden alarm with a tracking device. Maybe a smoke
> generator if you could find one that won't damage the interior.
> As a matter of fact a tracking device, with full monitoring service is 
available in the UK, and has, I believe, been extremely successful. 
There have been cases reported of Police being able to locate cars 
within minutes of theft.

The smoke idea has also been put into practice - at least as far as 
premises are concerned. One company has developed a special kind of 
"smoke" which drastically reduces visibility in a room yet, when it is 
dispersed, leaves no powder or other damaging residue. Neither is it 
harmful to humans.

So far I am not aware of the product being taken up for use in vehicles. 
I imagine the potential risk of it discharging accidentally while the 
car is being driven is giving the company (and its PL insurers) 
something to think about. A bit like the spike in the drivers seat which 
we would all love to fit!

-- 
David Olley
.....................................................................................
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 14 Feb 96 16:37:40 MST
Subject: BB - Dave Brown

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486

FYI:

BB Dave Brown - 903 W. Jerome Cir. Mesa, AZ 85210 USA
1970 IIa 109 S/W-1971 IIa 88-1987 RR. IIa manuals, parts book, RR manuals,
tools, garage, roadside assistance, coffee, couch, etc... etc...
Phone (602) 820-8052 Work: (602) 236-3544 Pager: (602) 275-2508-6486

 #=====#         #========#          -------,___          _________
 |___|__\___     |___|__|__\___      |--' |  |  \_|_     //__/__|__\___
 | _ |   |_ |}   | _ |  |   |_ |}    |  _ |--+--|_  |    \__/-\_|__/-\_|}
 "(_)""""(_)"    "(_)"""""""(_)"    ||_/_\___|__/_\_|}      (_)    (_)
                                       (_)      (_)
 1971 "88" IIa   1970 "109" IIa     1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover
 LIC: LION B8    Historic plates     (Too hard to "draw")  rear Lock-Right
 Phoenix Arizona USA (602) 820-8052                        Crane cam
 Have: tools, knowledge, couch, etc...  Pager: (602) 275-2508 #6486

#=======#         _________           We make a living by what we get,
|__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
| _|  |   |_ |}  \__/-\_|__/-\_|}
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 19:08:20 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: Frame overs

Daer All,
        Ok, I've heard enogh. It is 100 percent possible to do a frame over
without tearing down the entire Rover. If this work makes sense for your
needs, do it! Don't worry about those who say you can't, or that you would
be better off not to. If the rest of the vehicle is ready for that type of
operation it is the absolute best way to go. Anyone who needs instrcutions
on how to do it is welcome to contact me directly. We have a lift system
designed for this purpose, but even a cheaper temporary rig would work very
well, as long as you could make it safe. If your bulkhead is rotted, and
you need all kinds of bodywork, then it might not be the best way, but if
it is your frame and such that need work it is a great way to go. We
currently have an entire SIII 88 hanging out in the lift, front clip,
radiator, everything stays inplace. In our process we disconnect the brake
lines at the frame junction, the wiring harness at the bulkhead junction
and rear lights, the upper and lower radiator hoses, pull the choke and
heater valve cables off the engine, pull the engine wiring harness back,
disconnect the clutch line at the bulkhead line/ hose connection, remove
the fan, or radiator shrowd, undo or cut the body bolts and off it comes.
No bull, thats it. Lift it up, roll your frame out, change the parts to
your new frame, roll it back in, set it down, hook it all back up. With air
tools and torches you could do it in a weekend or faster if you had all the
parts. It's a good idea, do it!

Mike Smith, East Coast Rover Co.

------------------------------

From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com
Subject: Bolt-on aluminum panels?
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 16:18:24 PST

>BUT, most panels are easily replaced as they are bolted
>on...

Is this true on all the current Land Rovers, or just on the series
vehicles?

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Peng                                     (408)765-7863
Intel Corporation
Design Technology, Physical CAD
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: David Scott Mary Ann <birddog@auburn.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Progress
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:37:35 -0600

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Rob, fruitful day.  Pulled the engine and trans out of the 69 88 and =
stripped the engine down  to the  bare bones.  Took the head and block =
to the machine shop, who are going to try to have  the short block bored =
and ready for me to take to HMS this weekend for them to assemble.  Got =
my 3 transmissions loaded on the truck and have my other parts soaking =
in parts cleaner.  Took delivery on my turner engine and  english =
rebuilt trans/transfer case and bedded them down.  Thats in addition to =
my regular job.  Also talked to a fella in Orlando who has restored 8 =
rovers,  he is coming up to spend the night next week and look at some =
of my pickups.  Came home and cleaned the grease off and my wife had =
fixed heart shaped crabcakes.  Ain't life grand.   Have a great =
Valentines day!  birddog

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From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 19:46:33 -0500
Subject: Re: New Jersey Legislation

John wrote relative to the NJ Legislation post:

> Dropping an editorial letter
>like that on the list without follow up is dangerous, and really leads to
>rumour mongering, and undermines many good efforts at informing the public
of
> government plans.

That particular letter has been around since sometime last fall, and is
really old news. My analysis is that it is a combination of
misinterpretation, misinformation, confusion and faulty logic based largely
on emotion. I recall hearing that the bill which stirred this up never became
law.  Unless someone has specific information about a current concern
relative to Land Rovers, I hope not to see more about this here. There are
other forums which are more appropriate.

I should add that I strongly disagree with these "buy back" programs, which
have been promoted by STATIONARY sources of air pollution to avoid cleaning
up their acts. The dubious statistics and assumptions that are behind the
arguments in favor of these programs have been well documented. Even when
enacted, I don't think they will make much difference in how many old cars
survive. Autoweek (enthusist mag) had an article recently about auto
recycling and I was surprised by how few cars escape scrapping. Something
like 92% of cars are scrapped by the time they are 15 years old. Obviously,
Series LR haven't been scrapped at anything like that rate. Finally, I'm not
aware of any auto industry support for "clunker" laws in the U.S. The
situation is different in the UK where the Motor Traders Assoc. has advocated
mandatory retirement of cars to help the sales of new cars. I believe they
invoked safety as well as the enviorment.

One final note: A few years ago before the switch to waterborne paints and
new paint shops ($200 million or so each) in assembly plants, the hydrocarbon
pollution due to painting a car was estimated to equal the hydrocarbons put
in the air through the tailpipe of a new car in the first 40,000 miles or so
of operation.

David Cockey
Rochester, MI

As always, the above comments are not necessarially the views of my employer.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:12:41 -0800
From: Doug.Forehand@sun.com (Douglas W. Forehand)
Subject: Re: D90 SWs ( AIR LOCKERS, OME, Trac -edges )

> From LRO-Owner@playground.Sun.COM Tue Feb 13 17:59 PST 1996
> I talked with Fidel Cano at San Jose LR about doing Air Lockers, he 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> A) they won't do em!!!!!
> B) They VOID the waranty ( 100% ) acording to them( wich explains A )

It varies from dealer to dealer.
The Mission Vejo center has and will put them into Disco's.

As for voiding warranties, I would'nt be supprised that LRNA may
clarify that to limiting the warranty to only factory stock bits
of the car. 

Give them a call and see what they say.

-Doug

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:25:40 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: GPS

> anyone have any experience or locations I can look for information.

If you have access to the web, take a look at some of the links I 
found...  My bookmark file is at http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/links.htm

I have a Garmin 45, and am very happy with it.  It's the model I would 
have bought, had I not gotten it for my birthday.  (Unless I went for the 
car-stereo-like Garmin 100 instead.)  Anyway, it sells for about $200.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:25:55 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: BB list

There is, btw, a listing like the Birmabright Brotherhood; it's the 
membership roster of the LROA. 

In any case...

Roger Sinasohn
1959 SII 109" reg, 1974 SIII 88" HT
San Francisco, Ca
sinasohn@crl.com
(415) 469-7924 Home Office *
(415) 587-6084 Home number (My dad'll prolly answer)
Place to sleep **
Large Yard on a private alley to work in ***
Have some tools
Mechanically inept, but willing to hold tools
will happily buy you a beer. ****

Notes:

*    Currently up in the air; I'm moving back to my folks place and this 
number is still at my place and I'm not.
**   Gotta get rid of 20 years of stuff first, but soon.  Meantime, have 
couches at my place.
***  As soon as we get rid of the Citroen, Camaro, and Subaru brat...  
Room for only one more rover at the moment, but at least it's off the 
street and reasonably safe.
**** No bud lite or miller or anything, though.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 22:28:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: BB list

On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, Roger Sinasohn wrote:

> There is, btw, a listing like the Birmabright Brotherhood; it's the 
> membership roster of the LROA. 

	True, but will LROA extend this list out to the general public?
	If so, kudo's to LROA, but a number of clubs have had a few horror
	stories in the past when membership lists have gone astray.  OVLR
	circulates a list with cities and phone numbers, but only to 
	members (the same as current LROA policy actually).  Sadly to
	say, but while 99% of the list may be completely above board
	et cetera, it only takes one bad apple to change things.  With
	some clubs having 20+ years behind them, finding these bad apples
	has made them rather shy.  You can't go and pop your list out
	without permission just as I can't drop the OVLR database into 
	here without permission. (well, maybe you can, but I can't)

	Just playing devil's advocate here.  Many people don't want their
	name and phone number strewn about the countryside.

Dixon Kenner
Canadian Forestry Service                       Natural Resources Canada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 22:29:27 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Manifold cooking

I've been cooking on the manifold for years.  Originally, just warming up 
sub sandwiches or tins of food, but after reading "Manifold Destiny", I've 
broadened my culinary skills with the 2.25 considerably.  The space between 
the carb and valve cover on the 2.25 is best suited to long, narrow items - 
pork tenderloin and the like.  And no, it doesn't burn food.  Wrap whatever 
you are cooking in three layers of heavy duty foil.  (If the mill is seeping 
enough noxious fluids to seep through three layers, it won't be running long 
enough to cook you food anyway.)  For an average-sized pair of tenderloins, 
three hours is about right, turning the packet end-for-end and over half way 
to the destination.  If the packet leaks, though, it gives a whole new 
meaning to 'engine degreasing'.  Bon Apetit.
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: JDolan2109@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 23:08:03 -0500
Subject: New(?) Jersey laws

Yesterday, G. Warren Smith wrote about his considering moving to new jersey
(I would have used capitals, but it seems they won't get enough of my respect
tonight), and their new, pending  "older" (re: clunker) vehicle legislation.
Why would you want to live there? Would you want neighbors who think like
that? I mean, we are supposed to "do as the Romans...". If I found myself in
that environment, I'd leave. Quickly and quietly. I do think it is (as you've
described) a clear case of "taking without compensation". That's a big one.
It will surely be contested, probably thrown out, if as you describe.
I guess I'm hyper-sensitive because I schooled and worked in Phila. As soon
as I had enough, I was out. They're wonderful places to make money, but I
found there wasn't much else I wanted there. I won't ever return, and don't
even care to understand it anymore.
When you think about it, you have a Dormobile. You could literally live
anywhere! And where you want to live says you might not be able to even own a
Dormobile. Oh, well...
waiting for the sap to run in the Republic of Vermont...
see 'ya on the old road...
Jim '60 P5  Mk1 4spd/OD (628000165)
       '68 P6 SC Auto
       '68 P6 TC
       '60, '61, '64, '64, '68, '71    LR's, 88"   

P.S. Perhaps there could be a new industry/business to be made here. If you
could keep the vehicles for 2 yrs, then maybe someone in another state could
provide a similar vehicle to you and your vehicle would then go to them or
someone else in yet another state...  Kind of a two year lease(loose?)
program. I'll have the feasibility department look into that right after
lunch...

...Sam Smith Oatmeal...

------------------------------

Date: 	Wed, 14 Feb 1996 20:29:11 -0800
From: cyoungso@direct.ca (Chris Youngson)
Subject: Parts Cleaner Solvent

I was reading my mail, and came across a message which 
mentioned parts cleaner.  What type of cleaner does 
everyone use? 73

Chris Youngson, VE7CST
West Vancouver, BC
1965 109

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 03:46:03 GMT
From: mhooker@compusmart.ab.ca (Mike Hooker)
Subject: Land Rover Models

Find a hobby shop that carries Burago and bug them unmercifully.They will
reveal to you that there is a "big" assemble- it-yourself metal model of a
series III
safari 109 wagon (Land-Rover "Raid").Then order it and wait.If you have no
luck, let me know.I think when I got mine the shop ordered several and is
now stuck with them (snicker).
                               Mike 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 21:30:44 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: IVECO Diesel

Matthew Loxton sez...

>I have been offered an IVECO diesel for a 1982 Range-Rover with the LT77 5 
>speed box.
>Has anyone heard of this make of engine. Supposedly it is an Italian affiliate 
>and is represented world-wide.

It's basically a Fiat diesel engine. An Iveco truck (as sold here in the
USA) is Fiat powered but the rest of the truck could be from just about
anywhere in Europe. 

Steve Denis (who used to be on this list) had an Iveco which he bought
specifically to move his household goods in. The truck had a box on the back
big enough to put an 88 inside of. When he moved we packed all his tools
(which included a heavy steel table, two compressors and a hydraulic press)
as well as the household good in the back of the truck. He towed his 109
behind. The 109 had a Rover diesel engine in the back, along with five VW
transaxels. Quite a load to move 600 miles. Didn't seem to be much of a
problem for the Iveco..

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 00:01:06 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: BMW Discoverys

Last week I posted info from an AUTOCAR article about BMW selling Discos as
BMWs and have noticed the thread that followed.

I had forgotten that Discos were/are sold in Japen rebadged as Hondas.  But
what I thought I stated last week and will repeat is that BMW is NOT
rebadging Discos, but per the article, BMW will assemble Discos at its plant
in South Carolina, USA, sourcing much of the material from US sources.  The
BMW Discos may be a domestic (in the USA) auto.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover (recently sold my 83 (made in the USA) VW Rabbit GTI w/
173K miles)
Newport New Hampshire
603-863-7883

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 00:01:01 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Re: Help on '88 & '89 RR Comparison (Part II)

At 09:00 PM 2/13/96 -0500, you wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>both model years.  Thanks again.
>Tony

Tony

We bought a 88 Range Rover about 5 months ago.

I put new rear shocks on and had front ones done along with springs since it
leaned to one side.  I bought the shocks and springs from Atlantic British,
stock shocks and Bilstien shocks and also needed new mounting plates up
front (rust again).  About $550 for parts and 3-4 hours labor as I recall.

I will probably look at the bushings soon, I have a few loose and knocking
but i am going to wait for warmer weather.  Mark Talbot, on this digest,
recently replaced the bushings on his 88 RR and it made quote an
improvement.  His has about double the 68000 miles mine has on it.

Expect every nut and bolt under the thing to be rusted and do not even try
to save them when you do any work.

>From following this digest I have learned alot about what to keep after on
our RR and as soon as it warms up i will be digging into it further.  Also
thing we take for granted on most autos need attention on LR products.  Seat
switches will fail and in cold weather they can flood and not start.  

Two of the jobs I put off til spring is a non working rear window and
replacement of a bent (I have no clue how, I bought it this way) shift lever
which prevents me from manually shifting into 1st.

BTW if you have a fax number I can fax the spec info from the 1988 and 1989
RR brochures to you.

Jeff Kessler
88 Range Rover
Newport New Hampshire
603-863-7883

------------------------------

From: "C. Paul Patsis" <cpaulp@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: CB Radio Antenna
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 21:04:58 -0800

Has anyone figured out a good way to mount a permanent CB Radio antenna without drilling holes in a Defender 90? 
Thanks.

Paul Patsis
'95 D90

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 20:40:48 UT
From: "Matthew Loxton" <mloxton@msn.com>
Subject: Alchohol assisted graphite

Chris wrote:
>...<snip>.. You can make a mixture of graphic dust lubricant
and alcohol...<snip>.. can spray the
areas you would like to lube (such as the leaf springs), and the alcohol will
allow it to penitrate through capillary action.  The alcohol will then
evaporate leaving the graphite dust....<snip>

Okay, seems fine, but I remember that alcohol is fiercely hydroscopic and 
might well pull water in before it evaporates, and thus, in certain areas and 
under certain conditions, cause rusting.

Any comments from digesters?

Matthew
ZA

------------------------------

From: "Gerald" <g@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:11:07 +0100
Subject: Re: What Disco Accessories are Good?

On 13 Feb 96 at 2:46, Melvin Grove wrote:

> I'm about to buy a new 1996 Disco and was wondering if anyone had any
> opinions on what factory accessories are worth while to buy from the
> dealer. . . . .

I regret not asking the dealer to install the trailer towing wiring 
harness. I did get the floor mats which have been great this winter. 
I think I should have tried to get the steel wheels more instead of 
the alloy ones. Now I think I will end up buying the steel ones and 
what can I do with the alloy wheels?

--
Gerald
Massachusetts, U.S.
g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 02:51:33 -0600 (CST)
From: Mark Perry <rxq281@freenet.mb.ca>
Subject: Replacement seats for 109 pickup

John Liu seeks nice high-backs:
The first thing I had to do when I got my 
IIA 88 was to put new seats in: 
I won't even bother to describe what was in there, but it was not OE, for 
sure.
I went to a local "auto parts recycler" where the counter guy had a look 
at the LR, measured the seat base, and came up with a pair of *very* nice 
high-back bucket seats in nice grey fabric from an '88 Hyundai Stellar.
How I fitted them in probably falls into the bodge-job category, but they 
are steady, and I can still get at the tool bin under the driver's side.
The seat base is a bit wide, and maybe a bit high (helps me see better 
over the spare) but they do the job and are comfortable and cool (arrgh! 
plushmobile!) They cost me CDN$200. MIght replace them with original 
style deluxe vinyl set eventually, though.
BTW, I just got Rovers North's new flyer/newsletter, with front page 
story on D90 SW, which wraps up by saying that OBD situation has been 
sorted and a '97 D90 can be expected.

Cheers

Mark Perry   Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop 
(with plushmobile seating for two)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 01:19:00 -0800
From: fhyap@ix.netcom.com (Franklin H. Yap )
Subject: LR QC, Lawyers (Longish)

A few observations.

1.  QC vs. Quality

Jim, as much as I think you’re a great guy, and I’d buy a new LR from 
you anytime, the reality is the QC on the LRs are simply not as good 
as, say, the Toyota Land Cruiser.  (Even my local LR dealer admits 
off-the-record that the QC on Toyotas are the best in the world.)  On 
the other hand, I think the QC is probably similar to many of the 
highly sold 4wds.

LRs may be more durable over the long run, but I bet most people who 
buy Discoverys and Range Rovers trade them in before 6 years (isn’t 
that the national average today?).

The old LRs were geared toward home and field fixes.  The new ones, not 
so.  So most, except for the die-hard few (like those on this list?), 
will require mechanics to support the vehicles.  People on the list 
tend to be LR enthusiasts and will endure the inconvenience of repairs 
and perhaps keep their vehicles for quite awhile.  However, the list 
population is quite small as compared to the number of vehicles sold.

The actual off-road ability of the vehicle is somewhat irrelevant to 
many buyers since they (more than 90% according to news reports) will 
never take any 4wd off-road.  For those who actually go off-road, 
“easy” trails can be handled by many stock 4wd (usually clearance is 
the problem).  For the hard core off-roader, most 4wd vehicles can be 
readily modified to handle difficult trails (that a stock LR may be 
able to handle).

The SF Bay Area is probably a big seller of LRs.  I see lots of Range 
Rovers and Discoverys around here that appear to be second or third 
cars for the family.  Yet, nobody that I know with a RR or Discovery 
(except for those on the net) would take their vehicle off-road.

LRs are prestigious/cult vehicles.  Rich folks will continue to buy 
Range Rovers.  As long as the Discovery remains price competitive it 
will continue to sell to those who want a good 4wd or want the prestige 
of owning a LR.  However, perceptions of QC problems still keep away 
buyers.  I know several persons (and have heard of others) who have 
opted for the Explorer/Grand Cherokee because of the perception of QC 
problems/high repair costs associated with the Discovery.  (Doesn’t 
Ford sell more Explorers in a month than Discoverys sold in a year?)  
Yet, from the complaints I hear from those Explorer/Grand Cherokee 
owners, their vehicles suffer from similar QC problems.

My LR has been back to the dealer for many warranty problems, mainly 
minor.  While the problems are real, I think I may be a little more 
picky than usual because I love the vehicle and intend to keep it 
forever.  (Growing up in Jamaica, I used to borrow a friend’s Series II 
whenever I went off-road, and I intended to get one someday.  I never 
made it back to Jamaica but at least I have my LR.)  

As I recall, my FJ62 Landcruiser had 3 defects covered under warranty 
(vibrating mirror, inoperative gauge, leaking gas tank).  I thought it 
was an exceptionally well made vehicle.  I don’t recall any warranty 
problems with my German built diesel Rabbit and Westfalia Vanagon.  
However, I do recall many minor problems with my English built Ford 
Cortina.   Those vehicles are gone.  Others may come and go.  MY LR 
will be around forever.

Some things, like the LR, are worth keeping.  (also my B Rapide, 
R80/EML T ... maybe the GB500 ...)

2.  Lawyers

Lawyers in the US probably deserve all the bad press that they get.  
However, in my experience many people who complain about lawyers are 
also quick to use them to get their ways.

Unfortunately, many people simply cannot resolve their problems and 
need to resort to an adversarial procedure.  I have heard several cases 
(as an Arbitrator for the American Arbitration Association) where the 
parties acted as their own attorneys but should have had legal 
assistance.  Many people, despite being well (or overly) educated, are 
incapable of representing themselves.  

On the other hand, many lawyers are vultures who capitalize on 
available situations.  However, lawyers don’t make the laws.  Courts 
and legislatures do.  What have you done to affect who gets 
appointed/elected to the bench and who enacts the laws?  

Franklin H. Yap
Sometimes construction worker, engineer (PE Civil, haven’t taken the SE 
exam), occasional attorney (construction litigation only), happy LR 
owner.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 09:44:00 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: IVECO Diesel

> Matthew Loxton sez...
> >I have been offered an IVECO diesel.......  Has anyone heard of this make of engine. 

This make of engine was fitted to all Land Rovers after they retired 
their own 2.5 diesel and before fitting the TDi. A normally aspirated 
and turbo-charged version was available.

IVECO engines are well know in marine circles as excellent marine 
diesels, and their 6 cylinder unit is supposed to be a real beauty. 
Unfortunately, Land Rover used the 4 cylinder.

Get a marinised 6 and you should be well set up for wet conditions!
 

-- 
David Olley
.....................................................................................
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 09:47:38 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: CB Radio Antenna

C. Paul Patsis wrote:

> Has anyone figured out a good way to mount a permanent CB Radio antenna without drilling holes in a Defender 90?

If it is to be permanent then use epoxy adhesive. If you don't really 
mean permanent, then use a suction attachment.

-- 
David Olley
.....................................................................................
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

From: Tom Stevenson <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Iron Duke
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:19:23 +0000 (GMT)

There seems to have been a lot of discussion about the 'Iron Duke'
engine recently. I suppose it has more welly than a standard 4-cyl LR
engine?

-- 
Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
Tel:(01475) 530581  Fax:(01475) 530601

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:35:49 +0000
From: Arron <asd1@ukc.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Removing Aluminum Skin from Doors

If you have trouble doing removing the birmabright door panels 
( or any other panels ) assuming that you are going to stip the panel and 
re-paint.  To stop the panel splitting in the first case anneal the 
pannel using a blow torch ( assumming that you dont have access to 
workshops ) the problem is dont heat it up to much as it quickly becomes 
liquid.  The method is to use a small bit of wood, as you heat the panel 
periodically rub the wood along the panel, if the wood leaves a charcoal 
trace it's annealed.  If it dont heat it some more.

	This method does work ( I'am a trained coppersmith ).

	Arron

	P.S  BE GENTAL, IF YOU TAKE IT EASY IT'LL BE FINE, DONT LOCALISE 
THE HEAT TOO MUCH, RAISE THE TEMP SLOWLY..

------------------------------

From: tblake@smtpgw1.bathhe.ac.uk
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 10:46:38 gmt

     
     subscribe uk-lro tblake@bathhe.ac.uk

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:58:39 +0000
From: Arron <asd1@ukc.ac.uk>
Subject: Replacement seats for a 109 pickup

I've got Rover 3500 vandanplus leather seats in my 109 truc cab, 
and they hold you well, their quite wide, they offer a high degree of 
comfort and if you get the std middle seat for a SIII this will JUST 
still fit between the rover seats, the delux middle seat dosent.

	Arron

------------------------------

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