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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 7:30:23 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:[2]: Series bench seats/Safety

Dave,
I agree that the belts in a plane are only there so you can "die in your 
seat!" I felt that I had to throw that in.

Hmmmm...no belts on the shuttle bus you sit sideways in that takes you to 
and from the rental car place, or speed boats, or motor cycles? I guess 
the ultimate "safety device" is your brain, and not taking any unnecessary 
chances while driving.

Anyhow; A major breakthrough yesterday in "Series bench seats and safety"! 

I talked to Greg at Safari Gard. He sent me some pictures of his work. 
There was a picture of a red 94 D90 with two inward facing rear bench 
seats a la series LR's but,...with shoulder harnesses just like the ones 
made for the front facing factory bench seat! He told me that they are 
able to modify the cage and install four retractable shoulder/lap belts 
just like the belts for the front passengers. THIS HAS GOT TO BE AS SAFE 
AS IT GETS! (sitting sideways).

Also this LR had the best looking Safari roof rack I've ever seen....but 
thats another story!

Okay everyone; Now please tell me that these seat belts are not good 
enough because shoulder harnesses will not work as intended unless the 
wearer is facing forward!

Cheers,
Barnett

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 21:54:20 -0800
From: paf@netcom.com (Pete Ferreira)
Subject: re: *Fantastic* FREE offer

1) to any newbies out there: this fantastic free offer is a fraud.

2) To anyone who cares to persue it, the list is being spammed
(as best as I could ascertain it) by:
Name:     Kevin Jay Lipsitz a.k.a. Krazy Kevin
Address:  350 Richmond Terrace #5-P, Staten Island, NY 10301
          PO Box 990, Staten Island, NY 10312
Phone:    718-967-1234, 718-967-1550 (fax),
          718-967-1144 (fax), 800-433-1357

These contacts are a few months so they may be stale.

cheers,
Pete

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 08:22:15 -0500

g to  locate the "Blank" dash panels for a S lla.  The
panels in question measure about 8" square, one is located on the extreme
left side of the dash, the other is to the right of the instrument cluster.
if anyone has 1 or both of these pieces without any holes or mods., please
let me know.....
Thanks,
Steve     72 S lll 88
             68 S lla 88 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 08:24:11 -0500
From: Nathan Dunsmore <dunsmo19@us.net>
Subject: Re: Seeking Guidance for frame over.

Robert Davis wrote:
> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>  * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>  My plan is to unbolt it all & jack it up.  After bracing it rolling the
> frame out.  I am looking for input from those experienced in this work.

My experience was that removing the body pieces was not the major headache.  
The tie bolts for the dashpanel were a problem (finally cut them off with a 
reciprocating saw)as was finding all the wires, lines etc connecting the 
dashpanel to the engine and chassis.  In addition, a good part of my work is 
involved in repairing sheet metal damage to the aluminium where the steel 
bolts pass through, therefore it was an advantage to me to take individual 
sections off.  I guess if you don't need to do body work, taking off the 
sheetmetal and dashpanel as one unit makes sense.

Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm 
Boring, MD 21020
dunsmo19@us.net

------------------------------

From: David Scott Mary Ann <birddog@auburn.campus.mci.net>
Subject: SOLAROS
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 08:08:02 -0600

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Mark,  I am interested in the Society.  I may be headed towards =
Waynesville, NC  Saturday  to take some series parts to be worked on at =
Harrell   motors.  I believe your meeting place is not far out of the =
way.  I  may swing by and meet you all.  I am 3-4 months away from =
having  any of my rovers operational but would love to  meet up for some =
 trails this summer.
David Scott,  2209 Estate Dr.  Auburn, Al 36830  334-745 5516, 334 749 =
8303 (off)     birddog @ auburn.campus.mci.net     Have a great day!  =
birddog
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------------------------------

From: Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de
Subject: Re: Land Rover Cooking
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:08:49 +0100 (MET)

Matthew Loxton tells us about cooking on the exhaust manifold.

I heard about this some years ago but never tried it. Doesn't
the manifold get so hot that the food will turn to coal?

There must be some American cookbook about this, too. 
Franz
-- 
Franz Parzefall			 tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de
       _______
      [____|\_\==
      [_-__|__|_-]           Brumml  exmil. 1989 110 2.5D
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__..-	     (yes, he finally got a name)
                                  

------------------------------

From: Andrew Chambers <c2ac@dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Advice on Dealers
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:24:37 GMT

I am having trouble finding a good Dealer to buy a 90 or 110 from. I want part
exchange for a car, and the total cost will be under 6000ukp. I am willing to
travel. I have tried Binbrook motors in Lincolnshire, Nene Overland near
Peterborough (they have yet to reply) & even Proper Dealers, but with 6k they
are not interested. I can't manage for too long without a car so I need to part x
my 91 Metro to buy the LR, or else I would go Private.
I am based both in Leicester and in Skegness, Lincolnshire. I have been trying
to buy another LR for some time with very little success.

Any help would be appreiciated, preferably by email or 'phone on (01754) 871667 

Thanks,
	Eric.

Eric Spriggs, DMU Computer Science Coarse Administrator, Deceased

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:30:40 +0000
Subject:       Re: Land Rover Cooking

Quoting Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muench, from 13 Feb 96

> There must be some American cookbook about this, too. 
It's called Manifold Destiny.
(sub-titled: Cooking on your car engine)

The boot is 100 pages long, and mostly recipies..

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

Quote of 1996: "A.L.S. is a good example of scotissityness"

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 08:43:21 GMT -0600
Subject: the telecomunications act (not LR related)

However, it is related to this medium we use.

People interested in the possible effects of this Telco act may 
want to take a look at:

http://www.eff.org/blueribbon.html

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 06:42:52 -0800
Subject: Re: Seeking Guidance for frame over.

Rob,  I think you're better off removing parts.

The roof is a row of bolts along the top of the windscreen one bolt at each
of the bottom corners.  It'll take two people to move it.

The doors are only a couple of bolts each.  Pull the front floor & seat box.
 Then go after the rear body.

The bulkhead comes after the front wings are off.

Its not-a-unibody

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:18:45 EST
From: "Paul M. Brodie  usssbkpy@ibmmail.com" <usssbkpy@ibmmail.com>
Subject: LR For Sale

I was driving around the Tampa, FL area yestday, and came up behind an LR
for sale. I followed it to a parking lot, and spoke with the owner
briefly. He has had the vehicle only since last June, and is selling it
due to a new baby arriving, and the need for more room.

I was only able to look at the vehicle from the outside, but it looked
to be clean, and was running OK. Spare tire was located behind the front
seat, on the inside, with a cover, rather than on the bonnet.

Here are the details - contact the owner directly if interested, as I'm
only down here on a business trip (well, someone's got to go to Florida):

  1959 SIIa 88"
  hard & soft tops
  body: grey (could use some paint, but pretty clean)
  hard top: painted white
  Right-hand drive

  Asking: $8,000

  Phone: (813) 930-2823

Regards,
Paul Brodie
Brookline, MA (Boston area)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:21:08 -0500
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@midcoast.com> (by way of
Subject: 1997 D90's

The original message was received at Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:18:22 -0500
from modem10.midcoast.com [204.117.57.60]

   ----- The following addresses had delivery problems -----
<lro@Land_Rover.Team.Net>  (unrecoverable error)

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550 <lro@Land_Rover.Team.Net>... Host unknown (Name server:
land_rover.team.net: host not found)

   ----- Original message follows -----
dns.midcoast.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA14740 for
<lro@Land_Rover.Team.Net>; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:18:22 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:20:18 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: 1997 D90's

Dear All,
        My sources tell me that the D90 will come back in 1997 as well. It
seems that the auto trans is said to be in the works, and may appear on the
steering column?! Yuck. I didn't find out if both the SW and soft top will
return, but I assumed it would just be the soft top. The rest of the info.
in yesterdays digest is what I heard as well, air bags, etc. So no more
fighting over D90's, it seems like LR is actually going to try and meet
demand! This is a semi confirmed rumor, so if anyone has new info. lets
hear it.

Mike Smith, East Coast Rover Co.

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 07:19:39 -0800
Subject: Chevy 4/6 engine swaps

Mike
Scotty first made his Chevy engine adaptor kit for the Chevy straight 6.  He
recommends the 250 as being the best for this swap.  This engine required
moving engine mounts, moving the radiator forward a little, modifying the
firewall, and moving the fan a little.

For an engine swap into the tiny series LR engine bay, this is a minimalist
mod.  You end up with a car that is a lot more streetable, can keep up with
traffic on hills and tow med & smaller trailers much better that the LR 4 or
6.  If your car had the LR six from the factory, no firewall mods were
needed.

About 10 or 12 yeard ago, Scotty "discovered" the cast iron GM 4 cylinder
engine.  This engine has been widely used in many forms since the early
sixties.

The "Iron Duke" is lighter than the stock 4 cyl Land Rover engine, parts are
easier to find and cheaper, its more powerfull than the LR engine, and gets
better petrol milage.

You can use the same engine mounts.  You do not need to move the radiator and
in most cases you do not need to modify the firewall.  The carb linkage even
fits.  It gives you an engine swap that does not require modification of the
car that lightens the front a little and provides you with a major power
boost and better petrol milage.

At first he was recommending the early 60s engine with about 95 HP (Sorry I
do not have numbers in front of me so the HP #s are a guess based upon a
known faulty memory).

Later he discovered the engine was being made in Mexico for fork lifts and
found an inexpensive source for almost new engines.

A couple of years ago he discovered the Merc version of this engine that
produced about 145 HP and had versions up to about 164 HP.  This was a marine
version.  However the intake/ exhaust manifold is bulky and not easily
adaptable to the car.  There is at least one person on the list driving the
Merc version of the engine who can fill you in on it.  Last I heard he was
happy with the engine.

I gather that within the last half year, Scotty has "discovered" the '78
Chevelle version of this engine with its higher power and none of the
manifold problems of the Merc version.

I personnaly plan to make my next engine  one of the Chevy 4 cylinders as my
109 keeps getting heavier as I put more do-dads into it, and I don't want to
bucher the engine bay.  Without looking into it, I would worry about the
engine overheating.  The manufacturers made engines run on the verge of melt
down to pass SMOG regs in the seventies.  If the engine goes into a car that
requires SMOG tests it would need all the SMOG equipment intact & operating.

Over the years, Scotty has shown me a number of engine HP & torque curves for
the various flavours of the Iron Duke engine.  In every case the HP AND
torque curve was higher than the Land Rover 2-1/4 L petrol engine's curves at
both low & high RPM.

I plan to do it when my current engine gets tired (already have an adaptor),
but I don't yet know which of the Iron Duke 31 flavours I will order.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer <Alan_Richer.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 13 Feb 96 10:23:24 EST
Subject: Re: Seeking Guidance for frame over.

TeriAnn says:

>Its not-a-unibody

But for the purposes of a frame-over, it can be treated as a unit if some care 
is taken. In the book "Land-Rover Repair and Restoration" the Dunsfold people 
are shown doing an 88 this way, using a bloody-great forklift and a couple of 
timbers to remove a complete body.

The silly thing doesn't weight ALL that much, and if it's in good to great 
shape, why pull it apart?

If you need to repair/repaint/fiddle with, however, disassembly is a good idea.

    aj"Gonna do an 88 this way this summer"r

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 07:34:36 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: SOLAROS

At 08:08 13.02.96 -0600, David Scott Mary Ann wrote:

Snip.  Chop]
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Parlez vous gibberish?

Cheers!
John

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:54:50 -0500 (EST)
From: "Anthony John E. Maravilla IU-Med3" <amaravil@copper.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Discovery Warranty Work

Yes I had the same problem with the squeaky steering collumn at low 
temps.  But they fixed it, no prblem.  They then told me that there was a 
small leak in the steering wheel fluid system.  But it was so small that 
it is nothing to worry about and that I should have it done on my next 
3,000 mile oil service.  I do my service every 3,000 instead of 7,500.  
Hopefully there won't be any more problems.  Knock on wood.
John Maravilla
'95 Bronze Disco
15,000 miles 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 09:49:42 EST
From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins)
Subject: Re: What Disco Accessories are Good? The latte brewer! Not!

I have the brush gard & every option available for my '94 disco except
leather & winch.  I wish I didn't have the brush gard as I want a winch and
I plan to get the Safari gard [(909) 698-6114] front bumper, fairlead,
brush guard & winch package combo (cheaper I think than the 2K dealer, and
a much better bumper).   I love the sunroofs, & the dual ac and the jump
seats.  The cd player's really pretty cool to, esp. since off roading is
not always near a decent radio station.  I wish I had bought an after
market trailer ball and draw bar, the rover one is no big deal just more
expensive.  I wish I had a power antenna.  I have already replaced mine
once.  I plan on installing the big roof rack, so the toys for the little
rack don't matter to me.

On the other hand, the damn latte brewer has been nothing but trouble.  The
refrig for the milk gets too warm from the tranny and when I use the
steamer the cinnamon and chocolate shavings get down into the shift lever
and gum it all up.  When it's below about -20c, I can't seem to get a
decent head of steam to froth the milk, lucas heaters, go figure.  I had
that problem in to be serviced under warranty but they still haven't been
able to do anything about the combo lemon peeler and cup holder.  That
broke off when I rolled the truck.  My opinion was since the engine was
tested at unusual attitudes, shouldn't the accesories be as well? :-)

ttfn

Tom Des Jardins, Inbound Technology Group
FORE Systems (412)635-3374  FAX 635-3333 url http://www.fore.com
5800 Corporate Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15237-5829

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:31:05 -0500
From: Martin_Eglitis@nih.gov (Martin Eglitis)
Subject: Re: '97 NAS Defenders??

On Sun, 11 Feb, (Edward Chambers) wrote that he

>was at the Chicago Auto Show yesterday and swung by the Land Rover
>display.  I was talking with one of the LR guys there who worked for one of
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>be available in either the wagon or rag-top.
>Snip<

I don't know if I qualify as a reliable source, but I was skiing during
"the blizzard" in western Maryland with a woman who is friends with a LRNA
engineer, and she also told me that it was certain that the Defender 90 was
still earmarked for the NA market. In fact, she reacted with surprise at my
surprise, as though it was self-evident that the Defender was still coming
to NA.

For what it's worth...

Martin Eglitis
'94 Beluga Black Discovery

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:38:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Help on purchasing a RR

Hello Tony - So the Lizzard of '96 made you a believer, eh?  I had to drive
the family "loaner", and old Cadalac, through the worst of it too, after I
dropped Annabelle, my '89 RR, off at the dealer for the gas tank recall.
 Wow!  You really get spoiled.  

So, you wanna' buy a Range Rover.  I've had a lot of experience with my '89
(bought used 3-4 years ago with 56K for $20,500), none with a Pathfinder
(have rented 4-Runners, Grand Cherokees  & Explorers out in Utah), and only
hearsay contact with '88 RR's.  

For the dollar, the '88 might be your best buy.  The '89 seems a bit pricey
at $18K, although it is low milage.  The Pathfinder might be your best bet in
the short term, but definitely not for the long.

The two basic improvements you'll find in the '89 vs. the '88 are full time
4WD (it's really handy) and a larger engine (3.9 vs 3.5).  Since the RR is by
no means overpowered, the extra horsepower is an improvement.  The '89 also
has a few extra creature comforts like heated windscreens.

My assessment of RR ownership are: PRO's - It is a very, very comfortable car
to travel in, with good power, and lots of room.  Off road it is absolutely
the most capable vehicle I've ever driven, including my old LR IIa.  Over the
25 years I've been driving my old series LR, none of the Blazer/Bronco type
trucks could even come close to my underpowered little Land Rover.  So I was
amazed at what the RR could do, and do so comfortably off road.  From driving
the rentals I named, I can say that nothing I've driven handled rough terrain
as naturally as did the Rover.  Both my Rovers have held up extremelyt well.
 My Land Rover IIa has over 1/3 of a million miles on the clock and is still
going strong, and my '89 Range Rover after 7 years and 95K still looks brand
new.  

The CON's of Rover ownership are some dependability problems and the cost of
spare parts.  Lucas electrics are legendary for their iffy quality, although
I have had no problems at all with my RR so far.  It may be the case of a bad
reputation that is hard to shake, but everyone on this list knows Sir Lucas
as "The Prince of Darkness".  When you look anywhere in the RR (under the
seats, under the cubby, under the dash, etc.) you'll find a jungle of wires
and relays that make all the gizmos work.  Remember this is the Bronze Age of
autodom just before the widespread use of the computer chip to control all
the electric do-dads.  So that was a bit scary to look at, but it has proved
reliable enough so far.  As far as known problems for this year, the power
steering pump tends to be a leaker, I've replaced mine.  The steering boxes
sometime leak to.  The old gas tanks had a corrosion problem, but are being
replaced free of charge by Rover.  The tail gate (steel) has a tendency to
rust, although every spring I just get out my Dremel Mototool and buff out
the pits and daub them back in with some Rover touch up paint.  

Things to watch for:  As with anything that old, the shocks and steering
dampener should be checked.  The RR is a heavy truck and it really puts a
strain on these componenets.  Likewise the suspension bushings need to be
checked and probably replaced at this point.  Because of its high center of
gravity and long suspension travel (for exceptional off-roading), these RR's
have whaleish road manners.  In '90 or '91 anti-sway bars were added to help
with the problem.  Worn suspension bushings can contribute to major steering
& handling problems.  Actually, you should check the tie rod ends and the
other parts of the steering system  too.  The power seat switches are
problematic (Mercedes), but I've found that 5 minutes, WD 40, a finger nail
file, and a cup of coffee puts them back in shape.

Overall reliability, I would say, is good.  You certainly will be still
driving your RR long after the Pathfinder is dust.  As with anything that is
built for long life, maintenance is important.  As far as gas milage goes, it
is terrible by current auto standards, but just a hair less than other SUV's.
 I get somewhere in the mid-teens, a mile or two less than the
Explorer/Cherokee bunch.  When I took my RR to the dealer for the tank
recall, there was another RR there with 187K on the Odo.  It looked great,
inside and out.  Compared to my brother's cars (he keeps them forever - Dodge
van w/200k and Cherokee w/120K), it looked brand new.  My bro's Jeep & Dodge
are rolling rust buckets.

If neither of the two RR's your looking at are quite right for you, you might
call Atlantic British or Rover's North for a list of RR's for sale.  There's
usually a dozen or so every month.

Hope this helps. - Tony

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:51:13
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: Rare as hen's teeth...'round here anyway

Spotted...

Defender 110 SW, RHD, dark blue with white top pulling onto Massachussetts 
Ave. from the South African Embassy driveway. Dipple plates.
Passed same in the 109 and recieved enthusiastic return wave.

Bill Adams
3Dmentia computer animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington, MD 20895
301-949-9475

'66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel  ...all there

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 11:56:12 EST
From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben)
Subject: RR 100" frame FS $1000

'91 RR 100" frame, incl. coils, brake lines, steering box.
No rust, straight.  In NE US. $1000
Please e-mail directly.
Jan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:32:40 GMT
From: Gerald Tan <gtan@bbchw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Advice on Dealers

In your message dated Tuesday 13, February 1996 you wrote :

> I am having trouble finding a good Dealer to buy a 90 or 110 from. 
> I am based both in Leicester and in Skegness, Lincolnshire. 

Try Swinfield Coopers in Leicester. Private chap, knows his LR's
Gerald.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Gerald Tan    EMail gtan@bbchw.demon.co.uk                              |
| Purely my own opinions - not those of my employer                       |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:23:01 +0000
From: "Dr. Ron Thomson" <gnma35@mech.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Uphill struggles - the flatland LR

Thanks to all who mailed/posted suggestions of the cause of
my 109's inability to go up long hills.   The concensus
seems to be fuel starvation due to either a blockage
at some point in the line or a tendency for the Weber
float to cut off prematurely on long steep(ish) inclines.
Interestingly, I've just found and repaired a leak in the 
exhaust manifold and (naturally) the beast pulls better uphill.
I haven't yet taken it on a long uphill to try to recreate the
fuel problem but it does occur to me that an exhaust leak
would degrade the fuel consumption and (perhaps) demand
more fuel than the pump could provide (at any given speed).
Or maybe its just that problems don't occur until you're
out in the boondocks with no mobile phone.

The snow has now gone from Glasgow (I still feel smug about 
being one of the few vehicles to be able to venture out) and 
once the weather is warmer I'll do a thorough check and report 
anything useful.

Incidentally, I like the phrase the "flatland LR".   Perhaps
I shouldn't go to Glencoe this weekend!

Regards all,

Ron      "the beatings will continue
           until morale improves".

------------------------------

From: Mike Fredette~ <mfredett@sedona.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Progress (Swivel balls)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:22:58 -0700 (MST)

 
 To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
  * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc
 
 At 07:23 PM 2/12/6 -0600, you wrote:
 
 Anyone had any =
 experience with rechromed swivel balls?
 How pristine do you want them?  Mine have light pitting in a few spots on
 the top half of the ball, which coincides with the location of the swivel
 ball seal when the wheels are straight ahead, and they have not resulted in
 any leakage (once the seals were replaced.)  This may be because the spots
 are above the oil level.  Anyway, if you are willing to consider that sort
 of condition, I saw a big pile of used swivel balls in the back at British
 Pacific, and could go by to check them out for you -- not real soon, but in
 the next few weeks.  Call them and see what they'd charge you for used vs.
 rechromed with exchange.
 
***************************************************************************

	The swivel balls are plated with industrial hard chrome, and with our
ever tightening EPA regs, it's getting REALLY tough to find anyone who will
mess with chrome plating anymore, it's just too expensive. The industrial hard
chrome process is even harder to find, the the problem arises as to how to strip
off the old chrome to replate. Anyway, there is a solution that Doug Shipman
showed me a couple years ago that worked swell when I rebuilt both swivels
on my Ser III. Both pins were pitted pretty deeply in the usual places, on top,
and right under the seal when wheels are straight. Remove the swivel ball and
clean it to near surgical cleanliness, laquer thinner or MEK etc. Next, use a die
grinder, or Dremel, or some similar type tool with a thin cutoff wheel attached.
Use it to grind out the rusted pits, just deep enough to remove the rusted base
metal areas. Now, go to the auto parts store and buy a tube of JB WELD or DEVCON's
LIQUID STEEL. They are both a grey epoxy, that sets up in about 2 hours to some 
really hard stuff that files and polishes nicely. Mix the epoxy and use a small
flexible nylon spatula to apply it to the prepared pitted areas to a level
slightly higher than the surrounding chrome. An important step is to pre-heat the
swivel ball to as hot as you can hold on to by running it under hot water. Dry it
off and then apply the epoxy. It's massive enough to hold the heat in a good long
time and the heat helps the epoxy bond and speeds its curing time. After it's 
cured totally, next day, start to recontour the epoxy with a very fine flat file
run LIGHTLY across it. The chrome is harder than the file, so it won't be scratched
as you get close to the original shape. When you get close to the level of the chrome
switch to 400 grit wet/dry paper and bring it down the rest of the way, be carful not 
to go too low, or leave it too high, as the seal hardens with age, it won't be able
to follow the bump or valley and will leak again eventually. This method works great
for smallish deep pits, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 inch square, not large generalized rusty areas. 
But I made these repairs three years ago, and been through plenty of mud, water, and
road salt with no leaks and it cost almost nothing but some elbow grease.

Rgds
Mike Fredette

------------------------------

From: ChrisF6724@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 12:26:58 -0500
Subject: RE: Two questions

>modifying my leaves for a smoother ride
Here's a tip I heard of...  You can make a mixture of graphic dust lubricant
and alcohol and put it in a spray bottle.  With this done you can spray the
areas you would like to lube (such as the leaf springs), and the alcohol will
allow it to penitrate through capillary action.  The alcohol will then
evaporate leaving the graphite dust. FYI graphite dust doesn't attract dirt
and grit like WD-40.  Also great for stuff like door hinges, squeaky steering
wheels,...

One way of smoothing out the ride is to install "softer" shocks.  I have been
tempted to try out the new Rancho RS-9000 adjustable shocks....  You can also
get a "remote" kit that will allow you to adjust the shock from inside the
cab.  

BTW: I have owned Scouts, Jeeps, and a Sammuri, and no where have a found a
group more willing to help each other than Land Rover owners.  Now that I
have a 'Rover, I doubt I would ever buy anything else...

Chris Fisher   '73 LR 88 Series III

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 09:45:26 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Cheap winch for Disco

Mark, I'd be interested in your pictures -- sounds like a design after my 
own heart!

Congrats

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR with stealth winch

On 12 Feb 1996, Mark Ritter wrote:
> fabbed the mounting plate from 8 inch structural steel channel. The winch sits
> between the frame rails and the fairlead exits just below the front bumper. No
> modifications to the frame or bumper were required and the crush cans are still
> intact so the airbags should not be affected. The only modiification was to the

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:50:50 -0800
From: smthengr@sirius.com (Jeff Smith)
Subject: Re: What Disco Accessories are Good? The latte brewer! Not!

>The cd player's really pretty cool to, esp. since off roading is
>not always near a decent radio station

Can anyone tell me if an after market cd player is available that will dove
tail with the stock sound system/security instrumentation, in particular,
are there any cd players that will simply plug into the cd wire under my
seat? Land Rover is pretty savay in their approach to non LR accessories
(marketing 101)

>On the other hand, the damn latte brewer has been nothing but trouble.  The
>refrig for the milk gets too warm from the tranny and when I use the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>broke off when I rolled the truck.  My opinion was since the engine was
>tested at unusual attitudes, shouldn't the accesories be as well? :-)

Thats funny, my espresso/steamer setup works great. However, I chose the
manual espresso pump in lieu of the fancy push button electrics. I have
hardwired the espresso electrics instead of a lighter adapter.  I am
looking at incorporating the bean grinder with my new winch setup. BTW  you
should always be careful when mixing british and italian aftermarket parts.

Regards,

Jeff Smith. S.E.
Chair SEAONC Computer Applications Committee
phone: (415) 543-8651
fax: (415) 543-8679
email: smthengr@sirius.com

Smith Engineering
27 South Park
San Francisco, CA 94107

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 09:57:49 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Help on purchasing a RR

This is the nicest and most comprehensive advice for prospective RR 
buyers I've seen -- it deserves to be put in FAQ or some such readily 
available place!

(Also -- tongue in cheek -- Series owners please note the comments about 
Plushmobile off-road performance written by someone who has owned both)

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

On Tue, 13 Feb 1996 Sanna@aol.com wrote:
> So, you wanna' buy a Range Rover.  I've had a lot of experience with my '89
> (bought used 3-4 years ago with 56K for $20,500), none with a Pathfinder
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 71 lines)]
> call Atlantic British or Rover's North for a list of RR's for sale.  There's
> usually a dozen or so every month.
> Hope this helps. - Tony

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:15:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Fuel cut-off symptoms in D90

>On the 43rd day LRNA finaly sent a field engineer to work on my 90.
>He found the prob right away by banging on the fuse panel while the
>Rob - 94 Lemon Yellow D90

>.
Rob, thanks for detailing your nightmare for the list.  As awful as it is, it
is good information to have in the event  other owners (like me)  run into
the same problem.  And what I found interesting was to learn where the fuel
cut off is, I didn't know, but I assumed there WAS one, and a good jolt would
send me searching for where they hid the darn thing. 

 I sincereley hope your problem is repaired, I can't imagine sending in
"house-style" payments for a truck that is sitting for 44days, I could see
paying a little visit to the dealer with an arsenal borrowed from some gun
afficianado.   But, then, I'd be sitting for 44 days while the truck was
free.

I was also told that if I ever had to leave the truck at the dealer, to
always take the rental car, even if it just sits, because it puts a hotter
flame under their bottom to get yours out.

I'm curious about the diagnostic tool you used (I'm an ex-CARB guy from
California...emissions control central).  For 1995 & earlier, I thought that
LR had their own scan tool, (it is only after 1996 and beyond that all cars
have to be able to be read by a common "OBD2" scanner), and the LR tools were
prohibitively expensive to buy?  Do you have one, or did the dealer set it up
to check codes while you drove?  (Chrysler uses what they call a "flight
recorder" to diagnose cases like these, they plug the recorder into the
diagnostic port and it will record many parameters from the ECU for a couple
days, then downloaded and interpreted for problem solving.)   Can you provide
any details on the scan tool?

Thanks,
John
1994 D90, Wisconsin. (yellow light on, fault #48, idle air control valve out
of range)

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:15:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Oil Temp/Pressure Gauge on D90

>Has anyone had experience installing or having had installed a mechnical oil
>temp sending unit in NAS D 90?  I recently purchased a Racetech dual
>mechnical gauge that fits my D 90 dash.  The oil pressure line was fairly
>easy to install with a "T' adapter that allowed me to re-connect the
electric
>sending unit.........however the oil temp probe is a different story.
>gene
>mechnical gauge that fits my D 90 dash.  The oil pressure line was fairly
>.
Gene, I'm curious, where does this gauge fit in the dash?  And, why can't you
do the same with the oil temp sensor, that is, install a T fitting where the
electric sensor screws into the oil gallery, near the oil filter and cooler
outlet lines?  Does the thermocouple have a long proboscus? 

John.

------------------------------

From: David Scott Mary Ann <birddog@auburn.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Transmissions
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:20:23 -0600

------ =_NextPart_000_01BAFA16.387DC120
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Rob,  Ted at Harrells told  me 650 for a used Trans that they Knew to be =
good.  That is with exchange.  I decided to take some of my =
Transmissions to him and let him go through them, use the parts to make =
me one or two, depending on the damage.  He expected that to be cheaper =
for me.d  I'm not sure exactly what I"m going to do about the engine.  =
We have a great machine shop here that can redo the head quite =
reasonably and convert it to 8:1 comp.  I think I will take my engine =
apart and get the machine shop to do the head and bore the block the let =
leroy put the short block together.    They will  sell a long block for =
2000 with exchange, which for a good engine is about the cheapest I've =
heard.  DAP sells a balance long block for 1800 but I am a little iffy =
about the quality.  I have bought a new complete 3.5 RR engine from  DAP =
 for about a third of the dealer price and  have got 30000 miles on it =
without any trouble.  But that engine was new in the crate and not built =
by DAP.   I hear a lot on the net about AB quality not being good.  That =
bothers me as I have bought  a lot of stuff from them the last 9 months =
restoring these two 88's including a galv frame susp all rebuilt parts =
for a engine we did ourselves, brake kits swivel balls, bearings etc.  =
Have any of your club had any experience with them?  I hope to find a =
109  sta wgn body  for one of these pickup frames I have, if I don"t =
find one then I plan to build a 109 pickup from the four I have then =
sell the stuff left over.  I have Three good 109 frames.  I will use the =
Transmission for these.
Do you know anything about the 109 that has been in the Atl Const want =
ads the last 4 months.  Started at 22 and is now must sell at 17000?   =
Sounds high until you start doingone of these yourself. Have a great =
day!  birddog
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------------------------------

From: David Scott Mary Ann <birddog@auburn.campus.mci.net>
Subject: doors
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:27:40 -0600

------ =_NextPart_000_01BAFA17.3C442280
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Richard these are series 11a doors.  Thanks  birddog

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ugFAAAgwYKTyA0n6ugEeAD0AAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAfGM=

------ =_NextPart_000_01BAFA17.3C442280--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:40:32 -0800
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: Radio puzzle

There's a trick to resetting the numbers after you've misentered.  I believe 
you have to press and hold down the band (BND) button until the numbers 
clear.  It's in the manual.

-Matt
'88 RR

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 14:02:03 -0600
From: "John B. Friedman" <johannes@scribes.english.uiuc.edu>
Subject: MPI and TD1  Parts and Service Manuals for Sale

UK and Continental Discovery owners. I just bought a pair of Disco  
manuals, 94(sept.) parts and 95 service. At least haf of these  
manuals, amounting to about 300 pp. is devoted to engines, gear box  
and service on these for cars that do not exist in US. To recover  
some of the astronomical cost, if anyone would like to pay 35.00 US  
or mail me the equiv. in English and French or Dutch notes, I will  
send the stuff postpaid. Parts is especially good for seeing how  
things go together in assemblies. No binder though. John B. Friedman

------------------------------

From: "Mugele, Gerry" <Gerry.Mugele@wellsfargo.COM>
Subject: D90 SWs
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 12:13:00 PST

Well gang....I just got a call from the San Jose (California) Land Rover 
Boutique.  They just had two 1995 D90 Station Wagons delivered, one white 
and one green/white.

The white one is #310/500 and they already loaded it with overpriced markup 
items...bull bar, Hella lights, tail-lite cages, running boards, front 
skid-plate.... and they want $35,500 + tax & license...so I'd guess they're 
gonna ding the lucky buyers about $39,000.

The green one is still untouched (rush to the phone if you want it) and has 
no junk on it and the price is the standard $32,735..which translates to 
$35,680 out the door.  Try to get 'em to get you the D90 rubber mats (to 
cover the carpet) front and rear at their cost...that'll run you appx $366 - 
list is $580+

Their number is (408) 247-7600 and I talked to John Nuhn but I don't have 
any particular feelings about the guy, pro or con.

I'm certainly happy with mine even though I have a near seizure every time I 
think about the price...

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/ Gerry Mugele     (Mugeleg@wellsfargo.com)    _/
_/ Glen Ellen, California     (415) 477-3952    _/
_/ "Gooey" '72 SIII 88                          _/
_/ '95 D90 SW (364/500)                         _/
_/       I do not speak for Wells Fargo         _/
_/      Wells Fargo does not speak for me.      _/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
*** Eat one lousy foot and they call you a cannibal.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 12:27:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Help on purchasing a RR

Hi Tony,      

Nice write up on earlier RR's (for the US, anyway), but I've got a
"minor" correction.  See below.

On Tue, 13 Feb 1996 Sanna@aol.com wrote:

> The two basic improvements you'll find in the '89 vs. the '88 are full time
> 4WD (it's really handy) and a larger engine (3.9 vs 3.5).  Since the RR is by
> no means overpowered, the extra horsepower is an improvement.  The '89 also
> has a few extra creature comforts like heated windscreens.

The 87 and 88 RR are full time 4WD as well, but use a mechanical diff
lock.  A viscous coupler was introduced in 1989.  I'm sure the larger
engine is nice, but as a Series Land Rover and Volvo diesel owner, the 3.5
litre engine seems pretty good in the power department.  On the Interstate
it cruises comfortably at whatever margin over the speed limit I'm willing
to go, and the acceleration is acceptable.  After all, it isn't a sports 
car. 

You mention something that I think is important to anyone considering the 
purchase of an older RR.  At 100K miles, it'll want a lot of work on 
suspension, steering and possibly swivels.  So it's important to buy one 
with a known history, and price it accordingly.  Take little on 
undocumented faith.

Rgds,

Walt          * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover              * 
              * Davis, California       | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 12:45:28 -0800
From: russ burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Valentines and Landrover

Having been married for more years than I can remember, I am always
amazed at all the occasions we have to get flower's gifts,cards etc etc.
for our spouses.
Now as of late, I am starting to realize the double standard it is.
My first thought for my wives birthday was to by her a New D-90 SW.
But no, that is a car, and since she needed a new car anyway that did not
count. Now I would have been exstatic with a New D-90SW. I tried 
her logic with the socks I got from her for Christmas, and got a nasty
stare, and the  comment from my wife "If I did not buy you new socks, you
would never buy them."

Now Valentines day is here. My wife insisted that I buy mud flaps and running
boards for "her" new truck. But again  these do not count for a valentines 
gift as these are for a truck and not a proper valentines gift.
Now if I buy her socks , I am in trouble as she has more socks than
she needs.
It is a quandary.... maybe long distance truck drivers school.....

Just rambling
Russ

Russ Burns
cisco/Ford
313-317-0451

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 14:19:16 EST
From: "Hadley, William H." <whadley@INETGATE.ushmm.org>
Subject: funny brakes = headaches

     Well here it goes...
     
     Nessie is on the road with her new hydraulics and her tempest-esque 
     Kodiak. There are still a few lil' things to figure out.
     
     This is a '62 88" single system
     
     My brake pedal is very inconsistent Sometimes I have a stiff pedal and 
     amazing stopping power and others it almost goes to the floor and 
     after a couple of pumps it is still spongy. When I rebuilt the system 
     I put in a new slave cylinder and master cylinders as well as all new 
     flex hoses and rear brakelines. The only thing I am questioning is the 
     honing of my wheel cylinders. Would I have this problem if I honed 
     them out too much? I also switched to a silicone system and up by my 
     reservoir fluid is coming out of the top and settling in the lil' moat 
     at the top of the can.
     
     If anyone has any ideas I would appreciate it. All I ask is for my 
     brakes to work right...once.
     
     Thanks
     
     Will Hadley
     whadley@ushmm
     
     '62IIa 88" Stationwagon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:31:10 -0500
From: "Anthony John E. Maravilla IU-Med3" <amaravil@copper.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Land Rover Clothes, Toys, Watches, etc.

I was wondering if anyone knows where I can get Land Rover stuff.  My 
dealer only carries a handful of stuff.  Burago makes a large model of 
the terrible Explorer, does anyone know if they have one for any Land 
Rover?  I am in search for Camel Trophy gear, and models.
Thanks,
John Maravilla
Chicgao, IL
'95 Discovery

------------------------------

From: DucNut@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:37:29 -0500
Subject: Re:(i) Disco Problems(?) & (ii) "Iron Duke"

Hi all -

First topic: Our '94 Disco, automatic, has only been afflicted with a failed
electronic
control box that disabled the rear windows and the time delay operation of
all 
windows with ignition off.  Yes, yes, it has had numerous minor leaks and
loose
fastners but if I had wanted a H*nda, I would have bought one.  Currently 25K
mi
and knocking on wood every chance I get.

Topic #2: The 2.5L pontiac L4, aka Iron Duke, is essentially half of a
pontiac 5L
v-8.  It uses the v-8 rods, pistons, pushrods, rocker arms, etc.  If you go
to look
for one, MAKE SURE that its from a longitudinal application. That is_not_ out
of
a Fiero.  find one from a S-10 pickup or a blazer.  Remember that this was
the
engine that pontiac used in the indianapolis pace car and that the pontiac
dealer
still has "super duty" parts in the book for it.  Heck, why not look for a
fuel injected
engine?!

Extra point...the Kansas City based Flatland Rover Society is currently
trying to
find out what action can be taken, whether organizational or via insurance,
to
limit the club officers' liability during various events...any thoughts?

Thanks in advance - Keith Armstrong

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:45:38 -0500
From: Shaun Carrigan <shaunc@infi.net>
Subject: Re: Radio puzzle

Thanks Matt, you were quite right: to reset the radio after the wrong 
code is entered, you must hold the BND button down for few seconds.
Shaun Carrigan
'88 RR

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:06:29 -0800
Subject: Re: Help on purchasing a RR

On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, Sanna@aol.com wrote:

>The two basic improvements you'll find in the '89 vs. the '88 are full time
>4WD (it's really handy) and a larger engine (3.9 vs 3.5).  

The RR has always had full time 4wd!  The change in '89 was to a viscous 
coupling as opposed to the manually locking center differential.

Eric

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:06:46 -0800
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Series bench seats/Safety

On Mon, 12 Feb 96, "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org> wrote:

>Barnett asks:
>(How do they get by with just regular old lap belts on airlines?)
>Dave answers:
>Acually the seatbelts are there more as a psychological comfort. 

And to keep you from crashing all over the cabin in turbulence....

Eric

------------------------------

Subject: Flatland Risks (was: Re: (i) Disco Problems(?) & (ii) "Iron Duke")
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:29:32 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199602132137.NAA05671@playground.sun.com>you wrote:
> Extra point...the Kansas City based Flatland Rover Society is currently
> trying to find out what action can be taken, whether organizational or via 
> insurance, to limit the club officers' liability during various events
 
	Have you considered incorporating?  From what I have heard, then only
club assets are at risk and not the officers.

	The other option is to shoot all of the lawyers in the US (which 
would be a much more satisfying solution in my book).   Liability issues
is probably the largest problems with clubs in the US.  All goes well until
some idiot damages his Rover and sues the club officers.  The club then
dies, the officers loose what little they have on legal costs and the 
idoit is pissed because he doesn't get enough to fix his Rover.   Liability
makes everyone loose.   Whatever happened to adults being responsible for
their own actions? 

Ben  
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:22:06 -0500
Subject: '95 DISCO STOLEN!!!
From: freedmsd@pipeline.com (Scott D. Freedman)

Sometime between the hours of 21:00 on 2/11 and 07:30 on 2/12 my '95
Discovery was stolen from the parking lot at my home in Stamford,
Connecticut. No broken glass, no witnesses, not a trace.....so much for a
sophisticated alarm?  Unfortunately, I fear that the Avalon Blue vehicle
for which I endured 5 months on a waiting-list, is now in a zillion parts. 
 
Goodbye. 
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:45:41 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Help on purchasing a RR

Walt -- thanks for pointing out the bit about full time 4wd etc, which I 
had glossed over!

John

On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, Walter C. Swain wrote:

> Hi Tony,      
> Nice write up on earlier RR's (for the US, anyway), but I've got a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 33 lines)]
>               * Davis, California       | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW *
>               * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 17:39:58 EST
From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben)
Subject: '91 RR auto tranny/X-fer case

'91 RR tranny/x-fer case FS in US NE.
$900, or $1100 with propshafts.
Please e-mail
jib@big.att.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:36:03 -0500
Subject: '95 DISCO STOLEN!!!
From: freedmsd@pipeline.com (Scott D. Freedman)

Sometime between the hours of 21:00 on 2/11 and 07:30 on 2/12 my '95
Discovery was stolen from the parking lot at my home in Stamford,
Connecticut. No broken glass, no witnesses, not a trace.....so much for a
sophisticated alarm?  Unfortunately, I fear that the Avalon Blue vehicle
for which I endured 5 months on a waiting-list, is now in a zillion parts. 
 
Goodbye. 
 

------------------------------

From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com
Subject: RE: `97 Defenders to be available?
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 15:40:43 PST

>But face it, who wants to see an automatic Defender?
> Yuck.  I hate it when the emissions control regs make OEMs choose the
>automatics instead of spending extra effort to make the manuals work.  That
>always struck me as too heavy handed.

I would love to see an automatic Defender, and so would a lot of buyers
here in the USA. I think automatic is great for low-speed offroading,
rock crawling, and general around-town driving. Other advantages:
don't need to worry about the sometimes troublesome hand-brake, don't 
ever need a clutch job, and finally: my wife would be able to drive it! 

If the rumour were true, I think Land Rover is heading in the right direction,
at least from a marketing point of view; i.e. produce a somewhat more practical,
more comfortable version of the Defender as an alternative to the more
car-like Discovery. I for one really like the interior of the D90 SW.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Peng                                     (408)765-7863
Intel Corporation
Design Technology, Physical CAD
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 12:09:52 GMT
From: Gerald Tan <gtan@bbchw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Discovery Quality control

In your message dated Tuesday 13, February 1996 you wrote :
 
> Saw a lot of compliants on discoverys lately. What surprised me is that most
> of the complaints are comming from the big continent US of A. I am tending
> to believe that all Discoverys that did not pass the quality control at
> first are shipped over the Atlantic. Or do the dealers in Europe do a
> thorough check on the vehicles before they deliver?

AFAIK, *ALL* dealers are required to do a PDI (Pre-Delivery Inspection) on 
vehicles.
Gerald.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Gerald Tan    EMail gtan@bbchw.demon.co.uk                              |
| Purely my own opinions - not those of my employer                       |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com
Subject: Re: 1997 D90?
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 15:56:54 PST

>From a logical standpoint however - it would seem truly dumb if LR did *NOT*
>offer a Defender again at some point. With a new wave of hideous little SUV's
>- RAV4, Sportage, etc. With the new Wrangler a cheap spinoff of the D90 I for
>one couldn't understand how the Defender wouldn't continue to be offered for
>the value it has as a linkage vehicle to other models in the lineup.

I agree! I can't stand all the crap coming out these days trying to jump
on the SUV craze. 

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Peng                                     (408)765-7863
Intel Corporation
Design Technology, Physical CAD
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:57:36 -0600 (CST)
From: gwsmith@selu.edu (G. Warren Smith)
Subject: New Jersey Legislation

As I am considering a possible relocation to New Jersey, I was amazed to run
across a description of  legislation in that state, apparently signed into
law on June 2, 1995, which would seem to seriously threaten the future of
our beloved Rovers and Land Rovers (Mine, a 1970 3500S Rover and a 1965 109
Dormobile).    This  is  #SCS-1700 which, according to a letter in the
February '96 issue of Hemmings (p.1607), states the following:

      "  All vehicles over four years old will be required to report to new
centralized testing facilities for 'Enhanced Emissions Inspections'.  If
your car or truck fails this test - the vehicle MUST be taken off the road.
Only three percent of those vehicles failing the test and having already
spent a minimum of $450 for repairs will be granted a waiver allowing them
to remain on the road for two more years.  You have no appeal and no other
options"

The letter further states that "Almost no vehicles over 10 years old are
expected to pass...vehicles failing the new enhanced emissions test will
have their registration renewal automatically denied by the state.  Such
vehicles cannot be sold to any other individual or dealer and essentially
become FORFEITTED TO THE STATE....Owners of failed vehicles must surrender
their license plates within 45 days, and since NJ law already prohibits you
from having an unlicensed vehicle on your own property, local law
enforcement can then seize it at will."  It goes on to describe enforcement;
i.e. roadblocks, automated sensing devices, etc.

Does anyone living in or about NJ have any information on this legislation
and its likely effect on our "classics"?

Warren Smith

gwsmith@selu.edu

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 13 Feb 96 16:56:45 MST
Subject: OME & Trak Edge.

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
Tom, sounds like you have exactly what I'm planning for my '87 RR.
(Except I'm going to go with the heavy duty rear as well.) What size are
your Trak Edges? I want to go with the max size I can fit. I don't mind
"tweaking" just a tiny bit, as you've described. Only difference is that
I'm thinking of going with the Billstein (sp?) shocks.

I'm also trying to decide between the BFG MT radials and the Trak Edge.
I have never seen the Trak Edges, how do they compare?

Thanks,

#=======#         _________           We make a living by what we get,
|__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
| _|  |   |_ |}  \__/-\_|__/-\_|}
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 19:24:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Chevy 4/6 engine swaps

TeriAnn wrote:

>About 10 or 12 yeard ago, Scotty "discovered" the cast iron GM 4 cylinder
>engine.  This engine has been widely used in many forms since the early
>sixties.

The "iron duke" did go through a number in incarnations in front wheel drive
as well as rear drive versions. The later versions were all 2.5 litre except
the marine engine which was/is 3.0 litre. The 2.5 four was the base engine in
S/T pickups from the early eighties until a couple of years ago and should be
plentiful. These were the last rear drive versions made.

David Cockey

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:04:26 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Fuel filters

Several people have mentioned problems with plastic fuel filters.  NAPA, 
Advance, Big-A and J.C. Whitless all sell these glass units with 
*replaceable* elements.  The ends are steel, but the center is a glass 
cylinder so contamination can be seen easily. Buy the one with the 1/4" 
inlet.  Last time I looked, it was only $5.98 and with three spare
filters.  Cheers
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: "Tom Walsh" <tomw@netcom.com>
Date:          Mon, 12 Feb 1996 16:47:21 +0000
Subject:       Re: D90 SWs ( AIR LOCKERS, OME, Trac -edges )

Snip!
> Please, Disco owners, stop telling LR sales people you'd be interested in
> a D90 if it were more like a Disco.   What we should be working on is getting
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> the heavy duty, military spec,  XD90 and XD110 imported, not turning D90's
> softer.   
EEK! I don't know where you heard that kinda stuff! I bought a Disco 
becuase its a Disco ( I need commuter and a 4wheeler, someday maybe I'll 
have both! not now! keep a defender a defender! turn a Disco into a 
Defender ( GRIN :)

PS: with the OME & Track Edges I have 9.5 inches front clearance and 
10.5 inches rear! ( I still rub a shade in full articulation in the 
rear, I will fix that soon ( I have meduim springs in rear now, I 
should have the heavy duty at my front door by this weekend, I'll 
re-install them and see what happens ( I may lose a shade of 
articulating, else I will trim a little more ( good thing its 
aluminum! )

Also ( Important!!!! )
I talked with Fidel Cano at San Jose LR about doing Air Lockers, he 
checked and guess what?

A) they won't do em!!!!!
B) They VOID the waranty ( 100% ) acording to them( wich explains A )

So whats the general view point ( lets hear it all you Locked up 
folks )
---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*
                       Fluent Networks
             "Intelligent Networking Solutions"
Tom Walsh
tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com
95 LR Disco "The Green Monster"
#include <std_disclaim.h>
*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*

------------------------------

From: "Tom Walsh" <tomw@netcom.com>
Date:          Mon, 12 Feb 1996 17:03:34 +0000
Subject:       Re: OME & Trak Edge.

Dave, 
the tire sizes are ( 7.5 x 16 or 235x85Rx16 )
there BIG! go with the heavy duty springs ( I have heavy duty up 
front, medium in rear ( heavy dutie rears show up soon! )

I had to by some metal sheers :) ( see arrow below )

I did some full articulation tests yesterday ( ya! tests thats what 
it was :)

I still rub under FULL rear articulation, the stiffer springs may 
help, else a tad more cutting! ( I noticed a spot that kinda sticks 
out on the inner rear side of the wheel well proper that looked liked 
it rubbed a tad ( either the springs will fix it, the clippers will 
fix it or I get ~~~bigger bump stops )

In the front the tire rubs on full right ( not left ) lock, I 
reviewed the shop manual to get a handle on the turn screw thing, I 
will play with it this weekend.

I have 9.5 inches under the diff in front, and 10.5 in back, stock is 
about 8 I think!

I chose the Trac Edge over Mud terrains because I felt the Muds would 
be LOUD! These are a mix of Mud on the edge and all terrain in the 
center, they make a little noise, but its not to bad, handleing with 
the Trac edges deteriates above 72 mph ( hell thats why I get REAL 
BAD gas mileage, now I just get bad gas mileage )

> Tom, sounds like you have exactly what I'm planning for my '87 RR.
> (Except I'm going to go with the heavy duty rear as well.) What size are
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> |__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
> | _|  |   |_ |}  \__/-\_|__/-\_|}
> "(_)""""""(_)"     ^(_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill
                     |
---------------------|

X direction --->

             ^
Y direction  |

Z is looking into the E-mail :)

Clip at arrow in Z direction! behind visible part of quarter panel 
---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*
                       Fluent Networks
             "Intelligent Networking Solutions"
Tom Walsh
tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com
95 LR Disco "The Green Monster"
#include <std_disclaim.h>
*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:47:26 -0500 (EST)
From: MkII T <tkn9389@hertz.njit.edu>
Subject: Help on '88 & '89 RR Comparison

Hi All,
	I'm new to this list so please excuse me if I bring up an old 
topic.  After that infamous Blizzard of '96 hit NJ, I've been looking for 
a 4x4 to replace my little pocket rocket.  I would love to have that new 
RR 4.6SE.  But being a poor college student that I am, I can only afford 
an used RR.  I'm interested in either '88 or'89 model year.  I would like 
some fellow RR owners to share their experience with me about their much 
beloved RRs.  I'm looking for your opinions on three areas:

1.  General reliability on engine, chasis, drivetrain, and suspension 
components.

2.  Overall maint' cost for either major problem like bodywork or minor 
annoying problems.

3.  Problems...  What are other known problems besides of that fuel tank 
recall.

Thanks in advance,

Tony
tkn9389@hertz.njit.edu
tning@gpu.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:53:29 -0500 (EST)
From: MkII T <tkn9389@hertz.njit.edu>
Subject: Re: Help on purchasing a RR

Walter,

> engine is nice, but as a Series Land Rover and Volvo diesel owner, the 3.5
> litre engine seems pretty good in the power department.  On the Interstate
> it cruises comfortably at whatever margin over the speed limit I'm willing
> to go, and the acceleration is acceptable.  After all, it isn't a sports 
> car. 

	What's 3.5 gas mileage like?

> You mention something that I think is important to anyone considering the 
> purchase of an older RR.  At 100K miles, it'll want a lot of work on 
> suspension, steering and possibly swivels.  So it's important to buy one 
> with a known history, and price it accordingly.  Take little on 
> undocumented faith.

	So, how much all these work on suspension, steering and swivels 
going to cost me?

Tony
tkn9389@hertz.njit.edu
tning@gpu.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:57:54 -0500 (EST)
From: MkII T <tkn9389@hertz.njit.edu>
Subject: Re: Help on purchasing a RR

John,

> This is the nicest and most comprehensive advice for prospective RR 
> buyers I've seen -- it deserves to be put in FAQ or some such readily 
> available place!

	Exactly!  I spent hours on various Rover related web pages and 
mailing list trying to find out more info on purchasing an used RR.  I 
found nothing!  But thanks to people on this list I finally got what I'm 
looking for.  Thanks!
 
Tony
tkn9389@hertz.njit.edu
tning@gpu.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:00:50 -0500 (EST)
From: MkII T <tkn9389@hertz.njit.edu>
Subject: Help on '88 & '89 RR Comparison (Part II)

Sorry,
	I forgot one more thing...  I'm also looking for specification on 
both model years.  Thanks again.

Tony

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:47:26 -0500 (EST)
From: MkII T <tkn9389@hertz.njit.edu>
Subject: Help on '88 & '89 RR Comparison

Hi All,
	I'm new to this list so please excuse me if I bring up an old 
topic.  After that infamous Blizzard of '96 hit NJ, I've been looking for 
a 4x4 to replace my little pocket rocket.  I would love to have that new 
RR 4.6SE.  But being a poor college student that I am, I can only afford 
an used RR.  I'm interested in either '88 or'89 model year.  I would like 
some fellow RR owners to share their experience with me about their much 
beloved RRs.  I'm looking for your opinions on three areas:

1.  General reliability on engine, chasis, drivetrain, and suspension 
components.

2.  Overall maint' cost for either major problem like bodywork or minor 
annoying problems.

3.  Problems...  What are other known problems besides of that fuel tank 
recall.

Thanks in advance,

Tony
tkn9389@hertz.njit.edu
tning@gpu.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 18:04:41 PST
From: asmith@BayNetworks.COM (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Warranties (was re: D90 SWs ( AIR LOCKERS, OME, Trac -edges ))

> From bens@ridgecrest.ca.us Tue Feb 13 17:16:02 1996
> Posted-Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:11:14 -0800
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> Subject:       Re: D90 SWs ( AIR LOCKERS, OME, Trac -edges )
> Cc: lro@land-rover.team.net

Tom,

> I talked with Fidel Cano at San Jose LR about doing Air Lockers, he 
> checked and guess what?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> So whats the general view point ( lets hear it all you Locked up 
> folks )

Roll on 42,000 miles or October 1998!!!

So, what work does *not* void the warranty? Can I put a bumper sticker on?
Can I change a blown fuse? Can I add air to the tyres? Can I change the oil?

Andrew Smith
Palo Alto CA USA
'96 Disco            (5000 miles and counting .....)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:34:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Trak-Edge

David,

> I'm also trying to decide between the BFG MT radials and the Trak Edge.
> I have never seen the Trak Edges, how do they compare?

    After a lot of discussions with a lot of people (everyone has an
    opinion when it comes to tires!) I finally settled on narrow-ish
    Trak-Edges for my SII 88.  I have been absolutely ecstatic with
    their performance.  

    The vast majority of my miles are on-road (I do have to work for a
    living, and it's my only vehicle...) and they are not at all noisy. 
    At least not noisy enough to be heard above the normal SII din... 
    They don't slip under cornering, etc.  SO they are great on asphalt.

    They have been stellar off-road too.  I'm sure you could get them
    into some mud slurry that they couldn't get a grip in, but in every
    place I've been, they clean out well, they grip well, they climb
    over rocks well, they don't slip through flooded creek beds, etc.

    ...and in the recent east coast back to back blizzards, they have
    been nothing short of superb.  I was venturing onto roads with over
    1 foot of untouched snow in the height of the first blizzard and
    they just crunched on through.  I drove on plowed roads, unplowed
    roads, roads with glare ice, roads with ice underneath new powder,
    and they never gave me the slightest pause.  I was driving sanely at
    all times, of course...

    Lanny at RN summed up the Trak-Edge vs. Mud Terrain debate like this
    (as they run a bunch of both on their school and personal vehicles):
    the MT's probably have a slight advantage offroad.  But they wear
    out significantly quicker.  So for a vehicle that spends time on
    road too, he has no hesitation recommending the Trak-Edge as a very
    good compromise.

    Be forewarned that you will have trouble getting these tires. 
    Beware the Trail Edge/Trak Edge/Edge confusion.  Be prepared for
    tire salesmen to belittle your choice, to snicker, to giggle, to
    tell you you're an idiot.  Just go to another store that does want
    your business.  Trak Edge may *not* be the best choice for a Chevy
    1/2 ton pickup for all I know, but people with actual Land Rover 16"
    wheel experience (and that now includes me!) have used them and
    abused them and recommend them.

    Duncan, happy BFG TE owner

------------------------------

From: CrankIt@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:41:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Oil Temp/Pressure Gauge on D90

Well I had planned on replacing the water temp gauge with this dual gauge and
using the oil temp side to pick up water temp.  I was supposed to get a
fitting that would replace the current water sensor.  The size and thread
pattern were different on the unit supplied even though I was specific about
it fitting a NAS D90 (purchased from Surrey Off Road and they are doing some
more looking for me they are great to work with on the hard to get items and
custom items).  So to take advantage of the oil temp capability which I think
is a valuable reading I switched plans and am looking for a way to use the
gauge as originally designed.  You are right...if I leave this set up I will
have to add an additional gauge mount to hold the original water temp gauge.
 

As far as the fittings, I am picking up the oil pressure with the T out of
the oil pump.....now if I understand you comment I may be able to use another
one of the plugged openings on the pump to fit the temp sensor if the
openings aren't too small for the rather large probe.

I also added a larger tach mounted on the dash above the shifter so I can see
if easier on the trail.  The original is too small and too far to the left to
be useful when you have to concentrate on the trail and your RPM's.  Maybe I
can put the water temp gauge back in the dash where the original tach is
located since I don't really use it anymore.

gene

------------------------------

From: CrankIt@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:49:11 -0500
Subject: Re: What Disco Accessories are Good?

ARB Winch Bull Bar with a Warn XD9000 is a great set up and much less
expensive.  You will have money left to do other things to your Disco.

gene

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 19:00:08 -0800
From: mumcar@ix.netcom.com (William Carter )
Subject: D90 Brush Guard, Nerf Bars, Bumper

If anyone is interested I have a factory front bumper, brush guard, and 
nerf bars I would give up at a very reasonable price.  I have no place 
to keep them.  Shipping could probably be arranged.  I'm in Knoxville, 
Tennessee.  e-mail me at mumcar@ix.netcom.com.

Bill Carter
95 D90

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 22:01:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Help on purchasing a RR

>>Nice write up on earlier RR's (for the US, anyway), but I've got a "minor"
correction

I  stand corrected.

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 22:02:34 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Re: Help on purchasing a RR

---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    Re: Help on purchasing a RR
Date:    96-02-13 21:56:50 EST
From:    Sanna

>>I know RR is made of aluminum panels on steel frame.  I've read some
reviews on RR calling the aluminum panels flimsy.  Would high mileage worsen
this feeling?  What are they (reviews) talking about?  
I also heard that it's very *expensive* to do body works on cars with
aluminum body panels.

Talk about bad information.  When you buy a RR your getting a heavy duty box
frame (the heaviest of anything in it's class by far; nothing even comes
close.  Crawl under a few "sport utes" and you'll be amazed), a steel inner
body, and aluminum exterior body panels bolted to the steel sub-structure.
 THE ALUMINUM PANELS ARE NOT FLIMSY by any standard.  We're not talking tin
foil here.  True, aluminum is softer than steel, but flimsy they are not.
 They are solid.  They don't rattle.  They don't come loose.  AND THEY DON'T
RUST.  They are also easier to fix than ANY other SUV or car.  Just unbolt
them, have it fixed or replaced and painted, and slap the new panel back on.
 You see, all Rovers - from the first series 1 & on - are built on the
Erector Set principle.  I'll bet that if you gathered all of the Rovers that
are represented on this list together, you wouldn't find very many that are
the same.  It's the Erector Set principal.  They are the most personal &
customizable of vehicles.  Annabelle, my '89 w/ 90+K, is as solid and rattle
free as a factory-fresh BMW (well, at least since I replaced the suspension
bushings).

If your '89/40K RR looks good, JUMP ON IT, it's a good price.  And remember,
it's perfectly normal to have a used car checked out by a mechanic.  It's
worth the $'s it costs.

Hope this helps.  If you need to talk, call me at 800-373-7226. - Tony

------------------------------

From: CrankIt@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 22:14:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Warranties (was re: D90 SWs ( AIR LOCKERS, OME, Trac -edges ))

Had someone tell me today that any oil filter except a genuine LR would void
the warranty.  If LR was serious they may spend some time in court.  As the
Fram commerical used to say you can pay me now or pay me later.

gene

------------------------------

From: LeCompteDW@silver-po.biz.uiowa.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 21:06 CST
Subject: Re: Land Rover Clothes, Toys, Watches, etc.

Hamley's Toy Store on Regent Street in London has model 
D90's for sure (probably 1:25 scale).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 23:30:08 -0600
From: eec@interaccess.com (Edward Chambers)
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe land-rover-owner

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:32:42 -0800
Subject: Re: New Jersey Legislation

On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, gwsmith@selu.edu (G. Warren Smith) wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc

>Does anyone living in or about NJ have any information on this legislation
>and its likely effect on our "classics"?

Gee, you think they'd clean up the damn refineries next to the New Jersey 
Turnpike before they went to attack the old cars....I commuted from NY to 
Philadelphia on the weekends for three years...probably sucked down a lot of 
nasties from those plants.

Eric

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:32:36 -0800
Subject: Re: '95 DISCO STOLEN!!!

On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, freedmsd@pipeline.com (Scott D. Freedman) wrote:

>Sometime between the hours of 21:00 on 2/11 and 07:30 on 2/12 my '95
>Discovery was stolen from the parking lot at my home in Stamford,
>Connecticut. No broken glass, no witnesses, not a trace.....so much for a
>sophisticated alarm?  Unfortunately, I fear that the Avalon Blue vehicle
>for which I endured 5 months on a waiting-list, is now in a zillion parts. 

Actually, (and I know this won't make you feel any better), its probably on its 
way (complete) to Central or South America or Russia.  A couple years back my 
parents had a Toyota 4Runner (we all make mistakes) stolen on Central Ave. in 
White Plains.  The cops said that the big scam back then was to pull the thing 
up on a flat bed and have it packed in a container before anyone knew what was 
going on.  It seems that SUVs are in great demand in many parts of the world.

In case it was just some joy riding kids....does it have any distinguishing 
marks/accessories?  I'm in the area and I guarantee I'll notice an errant Disco 
before the cops are able to figure out what it is.

Regards and Condolences;

Eric

____________________
Eric Zipkin
Bedford, NY  USA
109"  V8 Regular

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:32:46 -0800
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Help on purchasing a RR

On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, Sanna@aol.com wrote:

>I also heard that it's very *expensive* to do body works on cars with
>aluminum body panels.

I've done plenty of body work on Series Rovers with aluminum panels.  There's no 
difference if all you're doing is touching up paint or slapping some Bondo 
on...just make sure that the underlying aluminum is properly prepped, a good 
auto body supply shop should help you there.

True, the panels don't bend back into shape too well (the aluminum has a 
tendency to crack).  BUT, most panels are easily replaced as they are bolted 
on...see the other comments on this subject.

Regards,
Eric

_______________
Eric Zipkin
Bedford, NY  USA
109"  V8 Hardtop

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:32:52 -0800
Subject: Re: Warranties (was re: D90 SWs ( AIR LOCKERS, OME, Trac -edges ))

On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, CrankIt@aol.com wrote:

>Had someone tell me today that any oil filter except a genuine LR would void
>the warranty.  If LR was serious they may spend some time in court.  As the
>Fram commerical used to say you can pay me now or pay me later.

As far as the oil filter is concerned, its BS.  You can use any filter you like, 
at least in NY state.  I believe the law states that unless the Mfg. supplies 
the part free, you are free to use what you want, so long as it meets SAE 
standards.

As far as the lockers are concerned, there was a thread a while back where some 
people did some investigation with LRNA.  The major idea (folks, please correct 
me if i am wrong), was that the warranty would only be invalid on the modified 
part.  In this situation, the differential would lose its coverage, but not the 
rest of the vehicle.

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 00:03:06 -0500 (EST)
From: rovah@agate.net (John Cassidy IV)
Subject: 3.5 V-8 for sale late 1996

I've decided, after much consideration and debate with my mechanic, that
I'll be swapping in a Chevy 4.3L V-6 "Vortec" engine into my 1987 RR.  We
will be doing this in October of 1996.  If anyone is seriously interested
in purchasing a complete 3.5L Rover V-8, please E-mail me directly.  I
would like to line up a buyer so that I don't have to store an engine any
longer than I have to!
Cheers!  John Cassidy     Bangor, Maine USA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 19:50:17 -0800
From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: Re: D90 SWs ( AIR LOCKERS, OME, Trac -edges )

>EEK! I don't know where you heard that kinda stuff! I bought a Disco
>becuase its a Disco ( I need commuter and a 4wheeler, someday maybe I'll
>have both! not now! keep a defender a defender! turn a Disco into a
>Defender ( GRIN :)

I had just read Jim Pappas's view of a possible automatic D90 in '97.
I guess it would be better than nothing.   I suppose a lot of
D90 owners share the blame for bitching about hard to shift transmissions,
tire noise, lack of carpet, roll up windows, etc......

>Also ( Important!!!! )
>I talked with Fidel Cano at San Jose LR about doing Air Lockers, he
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>A) they won't do em!!!!!
>B) They VOID the waranty ( 100% ) acording to them( wich explains A )

Of course not!  San Jose British motors has already pulled my
transfer case and transmission under warranty to repair oil leaks.
Just last week they repaired my center console lock under warranty.
My D90 looks anything but stock at this point.  It always goes in
somewhat dirty and scratched up.  The dent may be a hint that it
has seen some heavy use.   They have never even mentioned my lockers.
You're just getting the official "we don't want to be in anyway
responsible for your actions" response.  The don't ask, don't tell
method seems to work better with SJBM:)

My lockers were installed at Pioneer Centers, the San Diego LR dealership.
I know they also install at their Denver store.  I believe their policy
now is that they'll honor the warranty for everything but the axles after
an ARB install.   Of course, LRNA is paying and has final say over
warranty issues.

-Rick

>So whats the general view point ( lets hear it all you Locked up
>folks )
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>#include <std_disclaim.h>
>*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*

-Rick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:19:16 -0800
From: uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Clinton D. Coates)
Subject: Bodge-engeneering FAQ?

Has anyone tried to put together a list of Land Rover user's
doges, dicey techniques, emergency repairs and odd part
substitutions?  Such a list might be quite entertaining and
potentially useful....

--
Clinton D. Coates		uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca
*Emerson* 61 lwb pickup.....mostly runs

If it doesn't leak, its not a Land Rover

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:21:19 -0800
From: uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Clinton D. Coates)
Subject: Replacement seats for a 109 pickup

Does anyone know of any reasonable North American source high
backed seats (ones that have head support) that can be bought,
begged, stolen or adapted from other vehicles?

--
Clinton D. Coates		uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca
*Emerson* 61 lwb pickup.....mostly runs

If it doesn't leak, its not a Land Rover

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:37:23 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: D90 SWs

At 12:13 13.02.96 PST, Mugele, Gerry wrote:
>Try to get 'em to get you the D90 rubber mats (to 
>cover the carpet) front and rear at their cost...that'll run you appx $366 - 
>list is $580+

Is this a typo?  I paid $129.82 + tax for the ones in my "plushmobile."

Oy!
John

------------------------------

From: SACME@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 00:43:59 -0500
Subject: Land Rover door rust

On 11 Feb, David Scott Mary Ann (how many people do we have here?) asked
about repairing the rust on LR doors.

First the aluminum (Birmabright) skin can be removed by carefully prying up
the continuous tab that wraps around the steel framework.  In the
working-not-creampuff restoration of my Series III, I had doors with rusted
holes in the bottom of the door frames.  What I did was sandblast, bang,
scrape and air-jet as much rust as possible out of the frames, then stood
them up in a trough made of 2 x 4 and plastic filled with Rustoleum 769 (I
think they've added another digit to it now) Damp-Proof Red Primer.  I let
the doors sit in the trough for several hours, moving them around from time
to time to encourage maximum penetration of the Rustoleum.  Then I suspended
them over the trough and let the excess drain away.  It was a simple matter
to wipe the paint off the outside skin surfaces.  My next step, not done yet,
will be a couple of dips into an enamel to cover the relatively fragile, but
rust fighting, Rustoleum.  My sense is that even with the degree of holing
that I had, there is still plenty of structure left, and so far it seems to
be working fine.  Admittedly quick and dirty. 

As to aftermarket door seals, I got mine from Atlantic-British.  They are
sure a lot less than the OEM parts and, so far, I am satisfied.  I have,
however, seen other opinions in past lro's.   On heaters, just about any
decent radiator shop should be able to repair the core unless it is really
totaled.  On a Series III, at least, it is easy to remove and install.

Happy Rovering!

Doug Scott  

   

------------------------------

From: jpappa01@interserv.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:49:58 -0800
Subject: Re: 	LR Quality

RE: the recent thread about LR quality...

I'd rather speak to my own experiences than anyone else's since I have worked 
at a dealership for the past two years.

I have owned Land Rovers since 1971....

My first and oldest Landy is my 2A hybrid of 1967 vintage. I am completing 
it's refurb. But it still runs great!

My 109 is also a 1967. Still runs. Virtually no maintenance other than oil 
change. Chassis rusting beyond belief - but lived its whole life in New 
England. 29 years old! Still runs! Put that in perspective with other 4x4's. 
How many 1967 anything elses to you see around??

My 1990 Rangie has been wonderfully reliable. Left (I'll be frank about it) my 
wife in the road once due to busted fan belt..). That's it. And it goes off 
pavement regularly.

My D110 doesn't do much off-roading. And I baby it and detail it a lot. Can't 
help it. I just love it to death and plan on keeping it forever.

My D90 was an ex-LRNA factory car. My zone rep has video of it on an 
Automaster wheels event *AIRBORNE* Not so much as a check engine light have I 
had. Total problems = a bum battery. Not the original battery - probably an 
old one LRNA had put in. Replaced under warranty. I plan to hang on to this 
one also - but it plays hard!

I've had the use of probably four dozen company cars during the past two 
years. None of them failed to get me to work! Couple of check engine lights 
(OBD2 engines only). No driveability problems.

My company Discovery stick SE-7 was rear-ended on a test drive two weeks ago 
by a Dodge Caravan. The Disco suffered a dented rear bumper and continued on 
its test drive after driver information was exchanged. The Caravan was towed 
from the scene with its entire nose caved in - airbags deployed.

What can I say. LRO's tend (probably rightfully) to be the harshest critics of 
all. I'll be honest here on the list and tell all of you that of the handful 
of Land Rovers that have been legitimately *lemon-lawed* in my own sphere, 
*EVERY* one of the owners obtained another Land Rover. Nobody went to Toyota. 
Or Jeep. Or Ford. Most people who pass through our showroom lust heavily for 
Land Rovers. One woman actually sobbed to me (it was very awkward for me)as 
she explained that all she wanted was her Rover... We helped her get into 
another one. She is ecstatic and promptly renewed her membership in the BSROA 
and wrote us a glowing letter.

Another couple sold their 1990 Range Rover and bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee 
Orvis edition. They were back one week later trading it in on a new Discovery! 
The Orvis had 650 miles on it! She told us that it was simply a letdown when 
compared to their five-year old Range Rover...

I don't really think that there is anything else out there built to a stronger 
standard. Engineering overkill can be found in many of the Land Rover's 
functional areas. Nobody builds a perfect car! Because people build them! So 
do a simple strength/weakness analysis on a sheet of paper. I can almost 
guarantee the outcome! The Rover will always have far more ticks in the 
strength side of the paper if you use any degree of objectivity!

Club member Glen Foster has over 270,000 miles on his 1989 Rangie. He told me 
that he could never part with it. In that mileage, he has done a head gasket 
job. That's all. He's heading to the Southwest (again!) with it this summer.

I see *ALL* of the competition's cars on a regular basis. The grass is always 
greener when your own ride is having a problem. I've never seen a brand yet 
that doesn't have problems from time to time. Everyone can build a bad car 
from time to time. But for every bad time I hear or read about on the list or 
see in our service area - I am thrilled to hear from happy owners tell me 
excitedly about neat experiences that they have had in their Rovers - both 
new/old! Look at this healthy LRO Digest! I can't seem to locate the list 
about 70's vintage Blazers, Wagoneers, even Toys (at least in New England - 
there is nothing left of them except rust powder). They ain't out there!

To those old series owners out there - many of us have owned these cars for 
literally decades! I have bought many new cars while owning Series Land 
Rovers. They come, they go. The Land Rover always stays *fresh* because it is 
so special - so functional - so capable of doing so many different things. My 
best reason for owning Land Rovers? It has made me dozens of great friends 
since the 1970s! 

So... enjoy your Land Rovers! For many years! 

cheerz
Jim - I love `em all!

`67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid
`67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid
`68 2B 110 F/C diesel
`70 P6B 3500S
`90 Range Rover County
`93 D110 (#457/500)
`95 D90

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 22:14:00 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Camel Trophy in Four Wheeler

 Great article for Camel Trophy entusiasts in Four Wheeler Magazine, March
 '96 issue.  Lots of pictures of the event in Latin America, including a
 neat map of the course.

 Cheers,

                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 22:48:41 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: Re: D90 Fuel Cutoff

Check the inertial fuel shut off in the fuse panel area.  It's the 
approximately 2" square box next to the fuses.  The unit is not 
described in the owners manual but is briefly mentioned in the shop 
manual.  It's intended to stop gasoline flow in the event of a rollover 
but has been known to act up off road.  If the "button" is up, it's in 
the cutoff position.

Cheers,

Jeremy

P.S. A handy anti-theft device - even hot-wired the vehicle won't go 
anywhere.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 23:07:23 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: the telecomunications act (not LR related)

Also see my mini page at http://home.earthlink.net/~johnliu/cda for a short
analysis of the Internet portions of the TelCo act.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 23:07:49 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Replacement seats for a 109 pickup

At 09:21 PM 2/13/96 -0800, you wrote:
>Does anyone know of any reasonable North American source high
>backed seats (ones that have head support) that can be bought,
>begged, stolen or adapted from other vehicles?

I have seats from a Porsche 914 and they are narrow enough to fit and still
leave room for the center seat.  Not sure how common they are, though.  I've
heard people use Volvo seats too, which would be great I'd think.  You might
try calling British Pacific as last I checked they were bringing in
aftermarket highback seats specifically for LR's.  By the time you buy other
seats and make or have someone make something to adapt them to the Rover,
it's not all that cheap so it'd be worth seeing how much are purpose-built
LR seats.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Bodge-engeneering FAQ? 
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 23:25:26 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199602140518.VAA09708@playground.sun.com>you wrote:
> Has anyone tried to put together a list of Land Rover user's
> doges, dicey techniques, emergency repairs and odd part
> substitutions?  Such a list might be quite entertaining and
> potentially useful....

	If it can be done, it has been.  Rover owners will try just about
anything in a pinch.  I've posted a number of my field repairs to this list
and in the OVLR newsletter in the past.  I dunno if a grand master list
would be all that useful.  I always operate with 3 rules:
1. Don't panic
2. Use your brain 
3. Carry a lot of spares and random stuff  (many times an odd collection of
   wire and bolts can be more  useful than a crate full of spares.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 23:27:53 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re: the telecomunications act (not LR related)

At 11:07 PM 2/13/96 -0800, John Y. Liu <johnliu@earthlink.net> wrote:
:Also see my mini page at http://home.earthlink.net/~johnliu/cda for a short
:analysis of the Internet portions of the TelCo act.

-404 Not Found
-The requested URL /~johnliu/cda was not found on this server.

 Seems like you have been preempted already  =:0

 Cheers,
                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------

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