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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:15:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Mark Perry <rxq281@freenet.mb.ca>
Subject: Snow Rovers

It was -40C when I left work at 1230 a.m. here in Winterpeg. Even with 
block and battery pre-heaters, the thing took a bit of choke and throttle 
to get running, cranking with clutch out. Once going, it was, as the 
saying is, as slow as molasses (or 80W90 Hypoy C) in January. (Castrol 
10W40 in the engine, BTW)
Our more snowbound eastern LROs might be interested in the photo ad in 
the current Old Car Trader. It reads:

BRITISH LAND ROVER - Will run. Complete with snow plow. $995. 705-497-6189 
North Bay

In the photo is what appears to be a SerII or 'early' IIA 88" with pickup 
truck 
cab, indeed with a big plow blade on front and plow lights on the cab.
Beside it in the photo is a 'late' IIA 88" SW, with tropical roof and 
luggage rack.
Hard to tell more from the pix, but they both look pretty straight. Who 
knows?
BTW, North Bay is about 250 km/180 mi, or so,  due north of Toronto, Ont., 
for those wondering.

Cheers,

Mark Perry   Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop 
"Yes, I can see quite well over the spare tire."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:53:10 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: Repair guide for Series IIa or III  available?

Curtis asks..

>As a prospective D90 or Series IIa/III owner (this year, I
>keep telling myself) I'd like to know if a do-it-yourself
>repair guide exists?

There is a Haynes manual available for the Ser II,IIA and III. You may also
be able to get the "factory" manuals, but they are a bit pricey.

Cheers
Mike Loiodice
166 W. Fulton St.                  1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green     
Gloversville                       1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo
NY  12078  (USA)        7          1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue
                     #:-}>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:05:15 -0600 (CST)
From: Mark Perry <rxq281@freenet.mb.ca>
Subject: folklore, towing, lists (fwd)

Mark Perry   Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop 
"Yes, I can see quite well over the spare tire."

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 03:50:31 -0600 (CST)
From: Mark Perry <rxq281@freenet.mb.ca>
Subject: folklore, towing, lists

Warmest regards from Winterpeg, -40 C tonight

If I recall right from 
reading a history of Rover, one thing Rover got 
along with the rights to GM's small-block Buick V-8, was the in-house 
consulting services of the recently-retired GM man who had done much of the 
work on the V-8. He worked with Rover engineers on various mods to the 
engine, such as cylinder liners, casting thickness and so on. The engine 
was indeed for the 2800 saloon (P5?) but was spotted by Spen King as the 
ideal engine for the RR, as I recall from the book.

Recent thread on towing brings to mind a photo I recently came across in 
a book on the history of Canadair.
The aircraft maker built the CL215 flying boat water bomber, which has 
been sold to many countries, including Spain. In 1977, one of the 
Spanish planes hit a stone pier and was damaged.
The 93-ft wingspan flying boat had to be dismantled and towed to a 
salvagers. The 
photo shows the fuselage of the aircraft, about 65 feet long, being towed 
through the town square - the tow vehicle a Series IIA 88" SW. No 
guesses on the weight of the flying boat fuselage, but the whole plane 
weighs 28,353# empty.

If my comments seem a bit back-dated, it's cause getting caught up on a 
week's digests is one heck of a slog, especially with Costa Rica Bill's 
bounces. Nonetheless, I'd rather see all LR stuff on one list, just so I 
can feel smug about the brute simplicity of a Series beast relative to 
all the short-circuited complexities of post-Naderized auto technology. 
The only computer I need is the one on the desk in front of me (and the 
one I earn my daily bread and LR upkeep on at work. OK, and the one in the 
microwave oven, and in the VCR, and the CD player ....)

Cheers,

Mark Perry   Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada 1966 Ser.IIA 88 
Petrol Hardtop "Yes, I can see quite well over the spare tire."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:48:35 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Its That Man Again!

Which header will be *totally* lost on all but the most ancient,and
in the UK at that.Oh Well.....
The man in question is once more Mr Grafton,who has favoured yours truly
with more correspondence.
Dated 19/1/96,the latest Aerogram states that they have finally got both
Land Rovers out of hock(ie out of their respective shipping containers
in Mombasa) at a cost of UK 350 quid *each*.Andy remarks "ouch" which I
thought fairly restrained under the circumstances.The group have sold
much equipment,such as all their power tools,generator,etc and therefore
have enough money to continue the trip,albeit for a short(ish) distance.
During the passage through Kenya they were *given* a gearbox complete,
including bellhousing,by a bloke that just happened to have it lying about.
It is,apparently,strapped to the snow plough mounting,and recieves envious
glances from other overlanders,and serves to dampen the front suspension.
The 'box serial no is 361355990,stamped BL all over it,and Andy doesnt think
its a UK box.Anyone know?
New route plan is:Kyela(top of Malawi),length of Malawi,,through Tete corridor
through Mozambique,into Zimbabwe,then tro' Bethbridge(sp?,writing not clear)
into SA.And on to Capetown.Those in these parts of the world look out for
two 109's one with leading gearbox,reg no LHW 283Y.
No vehicular problems have been encountered thus far,except for the inability
of a S111 headlamp switch to survive intact and funtional for longer than
3 hours.However,the group bought Lucas fuel filters in Kenya,and as it is put,
they anticipate that this may be the kiss of death.
He reports that driving speeds of the locals are horrendous,a 109" passed
them at about 50mph on a road they considered suitable for about 15-20mph.
There are apparently lots and lots of"*totally* shagged" Stage 1's about.
"Have V8 and lead foot"seems to be the attitude.
He ends with the comment"Tell Charlie W that if he ever gets to Africa,his
tyres will be worth nearly as much as his Land Rover".I hope that means
something to someone,as it means bugger all to me,but I pass it on.....
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:20:35 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: folklore, towing, lists (fwd)

>The aircraft maker built the CL215 flying boat water bomber, which has
>been sold to many countries, including Spain. In 1977, one of the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>guesses on the weight of the flying boat fuselage, but the whole plane
>weighs 28,353# empty.
Just goes to show.The rule of towing with a Land Rover is"Hook it up.If
it wont move,its too heavy."
Another example:Friend of mine was *pushing* an eight ton traction engine
with his Defender 110 Tdi.Uphill.He thought that the engine was getting a little
close to his bonnet.The push pole had bent.Defender was OK,though.He later said
that he had pulled an eighteen tonner out of its shed with an 88" petrol.
I beleive him.He would.
Those flying baots are almost as tough.There is a photo in a book on
water bombers of one which landed in a field.Wheels up.Ploughed a bit of
a furrow,but was otherwise undamaged.Nice aircraft.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Andy Dingley <dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Collywobbles
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 12:16:43 GMT

On Sunday, TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com wrote:

> > My S-III would develop a serious steering wobble, 
> > I did a field change on the steering damper, 

> Park you Series III & find out what the real cause of your wobble
> is!  Your car did not come with a steering dampener and 
> should not need one to keep from wobbling .  

Leaf sprung Landies certainly do have a steering damper. The steering
relay unit (the thing that "turns the corner" in the two steering
links) contains an internal friction damper.

If you keep the oil level in this thing topped up, it should last for
ever. Of course, no-one ever does, so it tends to wear out. Wear is
usually due to water ingress causing rust in the lower shaft bearing
surface. Major machining and a rebuild kit (new bronze thrust washers)
will fix this, but it's easier and cheaper to get a brand new unit
(Craddocks have a shedful of ex-military spares, all beautifully wax
wrapped and quite cheap)

Getting the thing out is either easy or impossible, depending on the
amount of chassis rust. It's a tight push fit into a tube that goes
through the chassis rail. 28lb sledge hammers are a favoured tool, but
I've also heard of people putting a jack underneath and lifting the
whole vehicle with it.

Once it's out, follow the service manual to see how to dismantle it.
It's a simple job involving a soft mallet and a sock !  (complete with
pictures in the manual). You wrap the unit in the sock, drive the
shaft out through one end and catch all the enclosed flying springs in
your sock.

Putting it back together is impossible unless you have too many
fingers for any reasonable human being.

--
Andy Dingley                          dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk                                          

If all it takes is an infinite number of monkeys with typewriters, 
how come AOL haven't written any Shakespeare yet ?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 7:50:04 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:RE: Discovery Maintenance

I have always done my own oil and filter changes. My dealer LRMW has done 
the 7.5K and 15K service. They stamp the book and discount the cost of the 
oil,  filter, and labor.

Barnett
Childress 95 D90

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 96 07:55:17 EST
Subject: Re:  Frame Painting

Assuming you're priming the spots that go down to bare 
metal, use an aerosol so that the primer coat isn't too 
thick.  Rustoleum damp-proof red or yellow zinc chromate 
should be fine.  Would suggest Red Devil black polyurethane, 
available in quarts for the topcoat.  I used it on some 
exposed exterior steel on the house that was scraped down 7 
years ago, and it's still hanging tough.  Take this 
opportunity and be sure to put *2* coats of black paint on!  
It's easier than doing the 2nd coat later and having to 
re-prep.  After paint is all hard, you might wanna spray 
some undercoating (from any auto DIY shop) if you are going 
for protection, or not if you're going for looks.

Wear a disposable dust mask when spraying under the vehicle.

Regards,
Hank  (Ser II 109)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 7:59:25 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:Snow Rovers

Hi all,
Wow it was cold this morning in Sturbridge Ma. For the first time I heard 
some strange noises when I fired up the Defender, and the oil light 
actually stayed on for a few seconds! Thank god for synthetics!

Barnett
Childress

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:10:22 -0800
Subject: '84 109 V8 brakes

Does anyone know the differences in brake systems between a 2-1/4 L 109 and a
series III 109 V8???
I know that the later model uses a dual power brake system, but I don't know
what changes may have been made at the wheels.  Anyone know??

TeriAnn
twakeman@eworld.com

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: The colonies and translation of terms
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 96 08:16:00 EST

To continue the Crescent wrench/adjustable spanner thread. Footprints (UK) 
are the equivalent of Channellocks (NA)
A wrench (UK) is a device that grips the item being turned by mechanical 
advantage eg Mole (UK) wrench or Vice Grips (UK), Pipe wrench (US) or 
Stilsons (UK)
A spanner (UK) is a device that fits by "Spanning" the item being turned and 
fitting it precisely. North America with the usual econimy of terms employ 
the word Wrench for any turning device. Many times the specific 
manufacturers name becomes the generic identifier, as we drink from our 
Thermos, clean up with the Hoover (Dirt or Spies) or adjust our nuts with a 
Crescent.

Trevor Easton

------------------------------

From: crash@merl.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:55:05 -0500
Subject: Monkey vs. Pipe wrenches

No, a monkey wrench has smooth jaws, and a pipe wrench has toothed
jaws.

How do I know this?  Well, for one thing, I have a genuine "Monkey"
wrench, circa 1912, in my antique tools bin.  It even has a little
monkey stamped right into it.  It's not a very convenient wrench but
it sure makes a good hammer.

Second, a pipe wrench is used to grip _pipe_.  Not hex fittings,
unless you want to chew the fittings all up with the sharp pipe-wrench
teeth.  The pipe wrench has the sharp teeth to grip and turn threaded
(but round) pieces of pipe.  Smooth-jawed wrenches can't grip a pipe
to turn it.  (let's ignore strap wrenches for now, OK?)

Oh, and the aluminium RIDGID brand pipe wrenches go great with 
Land Rovers.  "Gauranteed forever"

	-Bill

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:19:24 GMT
From: u9502831@bournemouth.ac.uk (Benjamin Archer)
Subject: Series III overheating.

I am the proud owner of a SIII 88" petrol (php414m).  Though I have a
problem she overheats, badly.  I have tried all the usual flaws, the
thermostat works, water circulates there is no leak, and the radiator seems
to be extremely hot.  I bought a new temperature sensor for the engine, does
this have to be calibrated?  I blew a head gasket not too long ago, so I
know it is overheating but there is no apparant cause.

On another note for all Lr owners in southern Uk
(Surrey/Hampshire/Berkshire) steer clear of a company called Kingsley Cross
Country (formerly Rapid Rovers) they may cause you more problems than you
started with.  They have tried to pass a second hand part off as new, to me
they have also supplied me with a 15Lb per square " radiator cap for a 2.2
4cy SIII (rather than the necessary cap which is nearly a third of the
pressure that they supplied to me.  They supplied me with one for a V8.
They run a so called "Garage" and they can't tell the difference between a
4cy and a V8.  I could have blown my cooling system at that pressure.  When
I tried to complain politely, they couldn't have been more unplesent if they
had tried. 
        Conclusion:  Steer well Clear! 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:27:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Ray Harder <ccray@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Series: Advice On Painting Frame?

On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, John Y. Liu wrote:
< ...snip...  After I paint them the frame will look needful.  And so on.
< I was planning as follows:  Crawl under truck; Use wire brush and scraper to
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
> Since my frame is unrusted and I live in dry L.A., is it important to treat
< the inside of the box sections?  If yes, how would I do it?
john, i did this a couple of years ago.  i felt it is a good use
of my time.  i scraped some with a putty knife and wire brush,
then went down to the car wash with about $10 in quarters.
i went late at night and took a jack and jack stands.  wore old
clothes.  jacked up the rover and put it onto jackstands.  took off
the front wheels, and later the back wheels.  i
crawled under there and spent all my money removing oilcrud.  when
i finished, i was all wet, but the rover was clean as a whistle.
i used a small artist brush -- long handle, about 1/2 inches of
bristle and took my time.  and yes, i used rustoleum satin enamel.
it looks good when i look under there
and it protects the outside.  i have good intentions of doing
a waxoyl job on the inside, but to date (thats 3 years), i haven't
managed to get started on it.   imho, the outside is important
for appearance and some rusting appears there, but most of the
rusting is on the inside.  in la, probably not a problem.

ccray and lulu (siia 88 -- she is oily again, but thats oil over paint)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:37:31 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Discovery Maintenance

Reread the manual that the dealer stamps, Hal.  There are a lot of things
that the dealer does at various intervals that if not performed do void the
warranty.  Some of them require tools and equipment that most ordinary
mortals don't have at their disposal.  

I change the oil in my Discovery more often than the manual says, but as
long as its under warranty, I'll pay the price and let the dealer do it.  If
you're planning on selling your truck, you will probably be able to command
a higher price if you have all of your receipts showing that the factory's
maintenance schedule was followed.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California

At 15:39 31.01.96 -0500, HalatGRM@aol.com wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>My dealer stressed the importance of bringing my Disco in for scheduled
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
>Hal Hunnicutt
>'96 Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:37:44 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: RE: Discovery Maintenance

I always check to see if the dealer stamped the book or not.  If he didn't,
I ask him to, but I'm compulsive that way.  Oh yes, and I do keep all the
receipts, including the off-schedule oil changes.

Cheers!
John

At 14:35 31.01.96 -0800, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>I've had my Disco in to the dealer for all scheduled maintenance as well as 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 37 lines)]
> [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
>    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:38:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Snow Comes, No-Claims Bonus goes

On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, LUCKING Richard wrote:

> > Erm, isn't that illegal.  Surely it's the same effect as having
> > no insurance.

	Trivia:  Today, 98 years ago, the first automobile insurance policy 
	was sold to a doctor in Buffalo, New York.  The premium was $11 per 
	year.  [source: CBC radio]

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date:  1 Feb 96  9:27:32 EST
Subject: Wierd wrench for O/D shaft?

In the documentation I have for my Fairey O/D, it calls for the torque on the 
mainshaft nut to be at 100 lb/ft. 

This is not a problem... I have a 3-foot pipe.....8*)

However, whatthehell kind of a socket is necessary for that whacko nut, and is 
it available in the Real World (tm)?

Or. more to the point, which Rover god do I have to throw money at THIS 
time?.....8*)

    aj"I hate whacko tools"r

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date:  1 Feb 96  9:57:47 EST
Subject: Re: Series III overheating.

One conclusion and one alone:

Box it up and ship it to me in the States.....that'll fix it. <grin>

Seriously, the two things I'd look at there is timing and mixture. if she's 
running very lean this could cause overheating. Do the mixture adjustments on 
the carburettor.

Timing could be out, as well, causing the same symptoms. Too far advanced can 
do this, as the fuel fires too early  in the cycle, producing back-pressure and 
loads of waste heat that's got to go somewhere. Make sure  you're not 
over-advanced....try resetting to about 3BTDC or even TDC - if it doesn't over 
heat at those settings then you can start advancing till it runs right.

When you put in the head gasket did you check the head for warpage?

     Alan

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:37:11 -0500
Subject: Tours in AZ

You wrote "In a couple of weeks,  I will be heading to Phoenix with the girls
for some
sun and fun.  I have a listing of "Jeep Tours" in the Phoenix/Scottsdale
area.  We would like to take a "western desert adverture, etc" tour.  Does
anyone in that area know any of these companies that are listed and if so, do
any of them have Land Rovers?  God forbid if I should have to ride in a
Jeep!!!"

Most of the jeeps are sufficient... I don't think they cover anything other
than the smooth dirt roads.  There was a rumor that Enterprise had purchased
some Discovery's for rental but you have to bring your own latte.....  I
would give Enterprise a call and check on a day rental.  It would probably be
cheaper than a rental for 3 ro 4 people too.

Gerry 
Phoenix w/ RAIN today!!!!

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:59:54 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Wierd wrench for O/D shaft?

Alan asks:
> In the documentation I have for my Fairey O/D, it calls for the torque on the 
 mainshaft nut to be at 100 lb/ft. 
 This is not a problem... I have a 3-foot pipe.....8*)>

Come on Alan, 100lb/ft isn't that much. A good torque Crescent, uh, I mean 
wrench, will do it without the 3' pipe.

< However, whatthehell kind of a socket is necessary for that whacko nut, and is 
 it available in the Real World (tm)?>
 
I've never seen the socket to fit it other than in the special tools 
list. However, I recall some oddball sockets in the Snap-On catalog 
that looked as if they might work.
Personally I used (shhhh, this is a secret, don't tell a soul) a 
punch and hammer. Ouch! That was hard to say.
 
< Or. more to the point, which Rover god do I have to throw money at THIS 
 time?.....8*)>

The special tools god, I think. If you find one, let me know. I'd 
like to get one too.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:55:35 GMT
From: newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT)
Subject: Re: Its That Man Again!

>Tell Charlie W that if he ever gets to Africa,his
>tyres will be worth nearly as much as his Land Rover".I hope that means
>something to someone,as it means bugger all to me,but I pass it on.....

In 1988 I went out to Kenya to follow the Safari Rally. I hired a Suzuki
SJ1000 (All the Land Rovers had been snaffled by the world press). The tyres
on this thing derived any grip they had from the fabric surface! I asked
politely if they would't mind replacing them with the rubber tread variety,
as I had some serious mountain climbing to do. The best they could find did
have some rubber but precious little tread, and they just had to do.

The locals are to be admired for their ability to undertake driving in some
pretty bad conditions without the benefit of the latest technology from
Goodrich, Goodyear et al.

I guess this would make a snazzy set of all terrain boots worth a lot.

David Olley
............................................................................
.........
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
............................................................................
.........

------------------------------

From: Gene Sparks <galleryg@techline.com>
Subject: Baja Trip
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:11:37 -0800

Anybody out there Interested in taking a trip down to Baja this summer? =
I would very much like to go but will not go alone. My schedule is open =
and would like to make the trip 6-9 days long. Still plenty of time to =
organize.

Ahhh sundrenched beaches, world class fishing, cheap beer, convoy of =
Land Rovers.... Could it possibly get any better?

Gene
96 Discovery (with character dent)
Aberdeen WA

------------------------------

From: dritchie@access.mountain.net
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:36:52 -0500
Subject: Insurance for Rallies and Meets

We (Blue Ridge Land Rover Club) are thinking of how to get the best insurance 
coverage for events.  And suggestions on how over clubs are handling insurance 
for their events would be helpful to us.

If you have some background to share please let me know.

Dave Ritchie - Discovery (White)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:39:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Insurance for Rallies and Meets

On Thu, 1 Feb 1996 dritchie@access.mountain.net wrote:

> We (Blue Ridge Land Rover Club) are thinking of how to get the best insurance 
> coverage for events.  And suggestions on how over clubs are handling 
> insurance for their events would be helpful to us.
>.
	The purpose of insurance is to cover the ass of the club membership
	if anything goes wrong, however, you still have to deal with the
	fact that the entire membership could be sued.  What Ottawa Valley
	Land Rovers has done:

	OVLR Inc. is a federally incorporated body under Canadian Federal
	Law.  Federal incorporation was pursued for several reasons.  OVLR
	membership exists in most Canadian provinces.  Ontario incorporation
	would have made things slightly messy for events in another province.
	OVLR is in the Ottawa River valley, one side which is Ontario,
	the other Quebec.  We hold events on both sides of the river.
	With incorporation, the membership of OVLR is protected against a 
	lawsuit.  You can sue the corporation, but what will you get in
	the way of assets that have a significant value?  With the membership
	covered, the inclination to sue the membership, where one may have
	significant assets (house, etc.  Deep Pocket syndrome...) is greatly
	dimished.

	Insurance was a great problem for many other clubs besides OVLR.
	OVLR, in conjunction with other British car clubs have formed
	the British Car Council.  The BCC is also an incorporated body.
	The BCC obtains insurance for all member clubs.  Going under
	the addage of strength in numbers, it costs individual clubs
	little to subscribe to the insurance policy.  The insurance covers
	any accident at an event so long as it does not involve a moving 
	vehicle.   Under current law, any accident involving a motor vehicle
	is handled by the insurance attached to that vehicle(s).

	None of the above protects the "club" from negligence.  The 
	membership & Executive must still take all reasonable precautions
	against accidents and mishaps.  They must be able to demonstrate
	this fact.  If they can, they will have an easy time of it.

	How this helps for you in the United States is entirely a different
	matter.  I would suggest contacting VTR (Vintage Triumph Register)
	or some of the much larger British marque clubs to see how they 
	handle things.  As you can see, the British marque clubs getting
	together in Canada has helped matters quite a bit.

	Trivia:  The move to incorporate OVLR and later the BCC was all 
	becasue of one unfortunate accident.  The MotorSport Club of Ottawa
	holds (held) ice races every year.  Three years ago they foolishly
	decided to hold them on the Ottawa River (unlike the US southwest,
	rivers up here can be rather large and have very high flow rates.
	A 2:1 ratio (spring/autumn) flow is common).  On the Friday evening
	holes were bored in the ice to determine thickness.  All was
	safe.  Early the next morning (there had been a slight snowfall)
	truckes were sent out onto the ice to clear off the course.
	Eight feet from one of the boreholes a pickup (father and daughter)
	went through the ice.  Both drowned.  There still exists a legal
	liability for the event organisers, the MSO Executive, and the
	collective membership.  The President of MSO has had to give up
	his business thus far.  Since he was a sole proprietor, his assets
	were already covered off in case something went wrong with the 
	business.  This gave OVLR, and the other British marque car clubs
	great incentive to deal with liability questions, questions
	that had been discussed for ten years or more, but never acted upon.

	Probably not much help, but the rationale behind the question
	"why are you *not* incorporated" is...  especially in a country
	that is lawsuit happy...

	Rgds,

------------------------------

From: JEPurnell@aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:50:07 -0500
Subject: Rover engineer want ads on the Web Site...want to move to England?

A buddy of mine found this article in an industry magazine, thought youse
rovers guys would get a kick out of reading it.  I already got an application
previously  from the LR web site, but wasn't yet ready to move to Merry Olde
England.  I wonder if they would have paid to ship my Defender "home."  
John, Madison, WIsconsin
94 D90

======================GLOBAL CONTENT==================================
LABOR:

ROVER CASTS ITS 'NET'

Aided by parent BMW, Rover is embarking on a major expansion of its R&D
facilities.  The company is doubling its Caydon design center and hiring up
to 300 new engineering staff members.  Bruce Macauley, Director of
Electronics and Control Systems for Rover, began considering alternatives
when ads in the engineering press failed to bring in sufficient replies from
the right applicants.  He decided that the people he was seeking were
probably plugged into the Internet, and used in-house talent to create
Rover's web-site.  

Although the other European manufacturers, notably Fiat, have web-sites, they
are mainly marketing-led and designed and operated by advertising and PR
agencies.  Rover's, created specifically to attract new engineers, is
probably unique.  Macauley says the set-up and operation of the site, due to
go on-line again early this year, was definitely "worth it intellectually"
for his department.

His group had to ensure the site's name was unique so a third party could not
rent it back to Rover for a profit.  Next, the department's specialists
created the contents and hypertext links.  Originally, the Rover site was
rich in illustrations, but the time required to download them was putting
'visitors' off (unlike the U.S., local calls are charged in Europe).  When
the new version becomes active, Macauley joked, "we may start with the
application form as the first screen!"

According to Macauley, the investment in the site, at around $1,500,  was
cost-effective compared to traditional media.  Soon, Rover's first "webbed"
recruit, an Italian software specialist, will have taken her place with the
company.

Rover's web-site is:  http://www.rover.co.uk

-Ian Norris

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:52:51 -0500
Subject: Re: D90 Problems-comments on the list of irregularities::

Andy, your "irregularities" (problems? Oh no sir, these are not problems...)
have occasioned themselves upon my early Defender, a 1994, in varying
degrees:

>Here's the list:
>Driver Seat 
>  - Broken spring in the back causing nasty pointy springs to stick out.
>  - Sticky Seat adjustments. Both the recline and forward/backward 
>movement is very stiff.
==================Passenger seat rattling badly, parts fell out of seat back.
 ==================Driver seat recline adjustment arm super stiff also,
raelly gotta yank it to break it free. 

>Rear Door
>  - Rusty top hinge bolt
>  - Rattle (probably caused by rusty bolt allowing door to move up and 
>down)
====================REar door has a clunk in it somewhere, mabe just with all
those simple hinges.

>Rollbar
>  - Padding is cracking
=======================Yup, mine was awful, replaced completely, and under
warranty.

>Heater Blower
>  - switch is VERY stiff
==================Stiff too, I support my right elbow on my knee to get
leverage to operate it while ==================driving.

>Hood Release
>  - cable is VERY stiff. I'm worried that the cable will break in the 
>none too distant
>    future.
===========It will break soon, rest assured.  Mine has about 2 more pulls.
 There appears to be a warrant ===========fix for this, new stainless steel
cable and different routing.

>Passenger Window (Hard Top)
>  - Much more wind noise than the driver's side.
======My whole truck has much more wind noise.

>Driver Window (Hard Top)
>  - The front pane must be opened befor the rear pane can be opened.
=========Yes, isn't that interesting.  both my door tops are that way.  No
explanation from me.  

John, Wisconsin
94 D90

------------------------------

From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: D90 problemsRE: D90 problems
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 11:01:04 MST

Andrew A. Dallas (adallas@tiac.net) has these problems with his '95 D90:

  * Driver Seat 
  *   - Broken spring in the back causing nasty pointy springs to stick out.
  *   - Sticky Seat adjustments. Both the recline and forward/backward 
  *     movement is very stiff.

No seat problems to speak of, but the passenger seat squeaks a bit.

  * Rear Taillights
  *   - Water in lenses.
  *   - Running lights don't function (probably caused by the water)

Known '95 round tail light problem. My '94 is ok.

  * Rear Door
  *   - Rusty top hinge bolt
  *   - Rattle (probably caused by rusty bolt allowing door to move up and 
  *     down)

Yeah, I've got some slightly rusty hinge pins.  The rattle is probably
the tire carrier; there is a "bump stop" that might need to be adjusted
(on door itself - it looks like a bolt with a rubber bumper on it).
Other sources of noise in the general vicinity:  lower seatbelt mounts
(if you have the rear seat), speaker boxes.

  * Fuse Box
  *   - Fuse holder not installed

Nope.

  * Rollbar
  *   - Padding is cracking

Yes. Just had my rear hoop replaced under warantee.

  * Front Headlight Fixture
  *   - the right side panel is held on with screws which are rusting.
  *     The left is fine.

Nope.

  * Heater Blower
  *   - switch is VERY stiff

I think that's "normal" -- just how stiff is yours, if you don't mind my
asking :-)

  * Hood Release
  *   - cable is VERY stiff. I'm worried that the cable will break in the 
  *     none too distant future.

Yup. Plan to have mine replaced some day.

  * Passenger Window (Hard Top)
  *   - Much more wind noise than the driver's side.

Your hardtop is mis-aligned.  Mine used to be the same; I could see
light where the door wasn't even contacting the weather strip.  But when
the top was removed and reinstalled (to replace the roll bar) the
problem went away.

  * Driver Window (Hard Top)
  *   - The front pane must be opened befor the rear pane can be opened.

Sometimes have a similar problem.  I'm scheduled to get my driver's side
door top replaced due to a bad locking cam (was fixed once, dealer
decided to replace entire door top than fix cam a second time).

Let me add these problems with my '94 (13,800 mi) to the list:

  * head gasket leaking coolant onto exhaust manifold (replaced head
    gasket)
  * "rear side window panels" on hardtop cracking (replaced)
  * passenger side door latch assembly sticks when hot (will probably
    replace)
  * leaky oil pan gasket (replaced)
  * loose valve covers (re-torqued)
  * bad coolant hose clamp - leaking (replaced)
  * cracking fender-grill/heater-intake (replacement on order)
  * soft top snap came un-rivited (even though I have never used the
    snap!). Dealer re-rivited - but it's coming out again...
  * cubby box latch kept coming loose. I ripped the whole thing out and
    put in a new Tuffy Deluxe Stereo Console.

The dealer has been very good about fixing all these things, and though
it seems at times like I'm getting a new car one piece at a time, I
think once everything is sorted out she'll be a good vehicle that will
last "forever."

With the reported low profit margin on these vehicles and the seemingly
high warantee claim rate, it's no wonder LR is pulling the 90 out of the
US!

Still a satisfied customer...
--
Jeffrey J. Gauvin		email: jeff.gauvin@symbios.com
Symbios Logic Inc.		Voice: 719-573-3563
1635 Aeroplaza Dr.		FAX: 719-573-3824
Colorado Springs, CO 80916

------------------------------

From: olsenc@ichips.intel.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:32:10 -0800
Subject: Disco & full-time 4wd

Hello:

I've been following this list for almost one month now.  I figured I would
observe the discussions here in hopes of choosing the most suitable (for me)
SUV someday.  Needless to say, the Disco is something that I'm considering.
Enough introduction, on to the question:

Someone here mentioned that the Disco has a limited-slip center diff, which
allows a limited difference between the two drivelines.  I see this as a
simple, but very adequate, solution to the hazards of road travel where 
the road conditions vary from dry pavement to sheer ice.  What I want to
know is, how is the power individually applied to all four wheels w/o front
and rear limited slip diffs (or lockers)?  It would seem to me that you
would have only one "drive" wheel on each axle.  Is it a rear-right/front-
left type of drivetrain?  I'm very curious about this since the technical
details of the 4wd systems seem to get really glossed over in the reviews
and in company literature.  I also recall someone saying that limited-slip
differentials are not highly recommended.  Any comments?

Thanks,

-Clint
'84 Oldsmopile Cutlass Cierra (Grandpa's old car, but the price was right)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 13:57:19 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:D90 problems/Not me!

Geeee!!
It sounds like you guys, (John Purnell/Jeff Gavin) are experiencing some 
of the traditional Rover "quirks" yourselves? 

I already E-mailed Andy directly and told him I have had no problems 
whatsoever with my Defender!

Everything is tight, no rattles, no faulty parts, and no oil or coolant 
leaks observed after 17K trouble free miles to date!

I've been averaging about 25 MPG on the highway at an average speed of 105 
MPH, (I reprogrammed the ECU of course), and I have to constantly turn off 
the heater because it's so powerful I am constantly breaking out in a 
sweat! 

Wow! I must be the "OTHER" Land Rover Defender owner that has a "Perfect" 
vehicle! (I read a post about another one) but mine is not for sale!

Oh well good luck to all of you!

Ha...Ha...Ha...

Barnett
(Owner of the "other" perfect NAS D90)
Childress 

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:05:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Snow Rovers...and cold D90s

In a message dated 96-02-01 11:03:40 EST, you write:

>Hi all,
>Wow it was cold this morning in Sturbridge Ma. For the first time I heard 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>Barnett
>Childress

Yeah Barnett, me too.  I get a whining, like the alternator bearing is dry,
or the powersteering pump is complaining, then it slowly dies down and goes
away.  Also, even with synthetic Mobil1 10W30, my oil light stays on for much
longer than I would expect.  Kinda concerned me but I don't hear any lifters
clacking dry, I just wonder if the tap for the guage pickup is at the end of
the oil gallery? 

Not thank god for synthetics...thank god for WARRANTIES!!

John, WiscoRover @ -5 degrees F.
94 Defender90

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:04:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Discovery Maintenance

In a message dated 96-01-31 18:02:04 EST, you write:

>>My dealer stressed the importance of bringing my Disco in for scheduled
>>maintenance and getting the "official" stamp in my maintenance book.  I'd
>>rather do my own simple maintenance (oil changes, etc.)  Can anyone shed
any
>>light on how important this is to warranty, resale, etc?
>I believe there is a law in the US (may vary from state to state) which 
>prohibits the arm twisting that you're getting from your dealer.  In other 
>words, the mfg. must honor the warranty even if scheduled maintenance is
done
>at another facility.  This applies unless the scheduled maintenence is done
free of 
>charge (as in some "all-inclusive" leases).

>From page 15 in my Passport to Service book for my 94 Def90, under owner's
warranty responsibilites, it states:

"As the vehicle owner, you are responsible for the perf of the req maint
listed in your serv booklet.  LRNA reccomends you keep all record and
reciepts covering your veh. maint.  but LRNA cannot deny warranty solely for
the lack of records or reciepts, or for your failure to ensure the
performance of all scheduled maintenance."

more...

"As the owner, you shouuld also be aware that LRNA may deny you warranty
coverage if your vehicle or a part has failed due to abuse, neglect, improper
maint., or unapproved modifications."

The dealer won't see my vehicle for any of the scheduled services because I
do them.  I stamp them with my "Purnell Enterprises" stamp from my business
in calif.  Unless I can't handle the repair, the only time the dealer will
see my Def is for warranty work.  I agree with the idea that it is a good
idea for an experienced technician to see the vehicle every now and then, or
maybe every time anything is in need of repair, because they will know to
look for "special irregularities" like those manifold nuts that like to
disappear, or other problems that only someone in the service bulletin loop
would know.  But, overall, I like the feeling of seeing/doing all the work
done myself, especially because if you need to do anything out in the field,
gaining that working knowledge of the truck in a more relaxed atmosphere like
regular servicing, would be very valuable.  I haven't even had the truck a
year, so I don't know my way around it well enough yet, hence even more
reason to do the work myself.  Granted, with work schedules, it may be
wonderful to just drop it off and have things done.  Life is a compromise.  

John, Wisconsin
94D90 

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:05:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Discovery Maintenance

In a message dated 96-02-01 11:56:26 EST, you write:

>Reread the manual that the dealer stamps, Hal.  There are a lot of things
>that the dealer does at various intervals that if not performed do void the
>warranty.  Some of them require tools and equipment that most ordinary
>mortals don't have at their disposal.  

John, any specific examples of what these services may be, this sounds very
odd to me.

JOhn., 

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:16:42 -0800
Subject: Re: Series III overheating.

Ben

Have you flushed the radiator and engine block?  Sediment can build up &
hinder cooling.  Also, your engine could run hot if the timing is off or if
the carb is running too lean, a real problem with Weber single venturi carbs.

You have the 4 cyl pertol.  There is a passage coming off the thermostat
housing that bipases the radiator.  This it to keep water in circulation
within the engine and away from the radiator untill the engine warms up.  The
correct thermostat for your car has a skirt that closes the bipass as the
thermostat opens.  This forces all the water through the radiator.  If you
have a skirtless thermostat part of the water will flow through the radiator
but a lot will bipass it causing overheating.

Good luck finding the problem

TeriAnn

------------------------------

From: K Schmidt <s20845@hp.rmc.ca>
Subject: Land Rover 3D picture
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 15:25:35 EST

I got a 3D calendar for x-mas and earlier this week I was quite surprised
to see this series II or IIa 109 pickup!  you can see it at...

http://www.rmc.ca/~s20845/3d.html

Warning this may be a very frustrating experience trying to see if you have not
seen "magic eye" pictures before!  :)

Kurt

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:02:53 -0600 (CST)
From: Mark Perry <rxq281@freenet.mb.ca>
Subject: Re: folklore, towing, lists (fwd)

On towing with LRs, including flying boats, MIke Rooth noted:
> Those flying 
baots are almost as tough.There is a photo in a book on
> water bombers of one which landed in a field.Wheels up.Ploughed a bit of
> a furrow,but was otherwise undamaged.Nice aircraft.

I didn't mention, but in the Spanish case, they had to write the plane 
off: bet the LR is still running (It was in Fuenterrabia)

Regards> > 
> water bombers of one which landed in a field.Wheels up.Ploughed a bit of
> a furrow,but was otherwise undamaged.Nice aircraft.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:11:02 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: D-90 'features', not problems

Since all of us D-90 owners are going to spend a lot of time "in the 
box," we'd better "get our minds right" (phrases borrowed from "Cool Hand 
Luke":

>   * Driver Seat 
>   *   - Broken spring in the back causing nasty pointy springs to stick out.
FEATURE: Seat-back stimulator helps prevent driver from snoozing off 
while driving on flat, straight highways 

>   * Rear Taillights
>   *   - Water in lenses
FEATURE: Secret supply of emergency water for washing small wounds or 
soothing a parched mouth
 
>   * Rear Door
>   *   - Rusty top hinge bolt
>   *   - Rattle (probably caused by rusty bolt allowing door to move up and 
>   *     down)
FEATURES: 1) Top hinge bolt color-coded (rust) to speed re-assembly in the 
case of an unexpected field repair. 2) "Play" engineered into rear door 
mounts allows rear door to act as a mechanical "back up alarm," with no 
electrical mechanism that might fail.

>   * Fuse Box
>   *   - Fuse holder not installed
FEATURE: This type of fuse box virtually eliminates the need to replace 
fuses. Unauthorized use of vehicle is prevented (so is authorized use...)  

>   * Rollbar
>   *   - Padding is cracking
FEATURE: Source of synthetic "crumbs" for marking one's trail when 
off-pavement. Unlike bread crumbs, the roll bar padding bits are less 
likely to be eaten by wildlife or to dissolve in rain or puddles.

>  * Front Headlight Fixture
>   *   - the right side panel is held on with screws which are rusting.
>   *   - The left is fine.
FEATURE: Additional color coding (rust) to help speed re-assembly in case 
of field repair.

>   * Heater Blower
>   *   - switch is VERY stiff
FEATURE: Part of Land Rover's unique on-board fitness equipment (see below)

>   * Hood Release
>   *   - cable is VERY stiff. I'm worried that the cable will break in the 
>   *     none too distant future.
FEATURES: Stiff cable also provided as part of on-board fitness 
equipment. In addition, the built-in "fear of breakage" feature prepares 
the Land Rover owner's mind to deal with potential challenges on- and 
off-road

>   * Passenger Window (Hard Top)
>   *   - Much more wind noise than the driver's side.
FEATURE:Balanced cabin acoustics. Because the driver's ears are closer to 
the left (driver's) window, the passenger window/hard top fit has ben 
engineered to allow more wind noise and thus provide a more *balanced* 
noise for the driver 

>   * Driver Window (Hard Top)
>   *   - The front pane must be opened before the rear pane can be opened.
FEATURE: AntiTheft device. Since most intrusions through windows into locked 
vehicles with front sliding two pane windows which were left unlocked are 
done by sliding the rear pane forward, the unique Land Rover described 
above may prevent such entry.

>   * head gasket leaking coolant onto exhaust manifold (replaced head
>     gasket)
FEATURE: Failsafe coolant check. After the engine warms up, the 
*absence* of steam from under the hood signals dangerously low or 
absent engine coolant

>   * "rear side window panels" on hardtop cracking 
FEATURE: A limited number of resin tops have built-in "flex" meter that 
provides a visual, measurable record of the amount of stress that the 
side panels have experienced

>   * passenger side door latch assembly sticks when hot.
FEATURE: Passenger door safety feature. In the event that your passenger 
forgets to lock their door, a built in heat-sensitive latch retard is 
activated in hot-weather to prevent unintended opening of the door 
(intentional opening is also prevented) The mechanism is heat sensitive 
because studies have shown that falling out of the passenger door on 
Arizona highways in July is generally more injurious than falling onto a 
northern Wisconsin interstate in January.  

>   * leaky oil pan gasket (replaced)
FEATURE: Passive parking space marker enables driver, family and 
neighbors to see where the D90 was parked last night. Family pets are 
discouraged from napping in the parking space. And besides, this is one 
of Land Rover's best known features harkening back to the Series I.

>   * loose valve covers
FEATURE:  Built-in test-site to allow newbie owners to try to figure 
out what size socket is needed to tighten. ;-=)

And remember, D90s with these, and other, FEATURES cost no more than the 
featureless (no problem) ones that have been mentioned on the list. 
Furthermore, additional features will become available on vehicles 
already owned: check list for "availability" in your area (or check out 
your D90 from time to time).

Best wishes,
David

In love with my many-featured '94 D90!

------------------------------

Subject: LRO Mailing Lists ARE MOVING: Major Domo's got marching orders !
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 17:03:33 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@OpenMarket.com>

Hi  Folks,

	As you've been warned, the Mail Host for the Land Rover Owner 
mailing lists is moving.

	So, you're asking, what does this mean to me ?

	If YOU, your Mail Aliases File, your WEB Pages or your Mail Program is
CONFIGURED to contact the Land Rover mailing lists via any of the following
host names:

		<list>@*stratus.com
			@stratus.com
			@transfer.stratus.com
			@uk.stratus.com
			@butler.uk.stratus.com
			(these addresses will break from 2/2/1996)

		<list>@team.net
			(this address will break any time now, when DNS
			 records get updated.)

then YOU NEED to update your fingers, files, WEB Pages or configurations to 

		<list>@land-rover.team.net

	As for the digest folks, they may get a couple of digests per day
(one from the old and one from the new), but they'll have different 
content.  I'll see to getting the old one turned off soon (next week)

Problems:

	Any cached information about the Team.Net domain could hang about
(legitimitly) for one week. So unless the DNS where which does name resolution
for you gets updated promptly with the new entry, things may be broken for
a couple days.

	If you continue to have problems with sending mail past the weekend
then ask your Internet Service Provider to bounce your/thier DNS system to 
clear the cache.

For you hacks:

	The current SOA revision number for the Team.Net. domain is 1000117,
	as from 15:30 EST 1 Feb 1996.

	The new host is pointed to by the MX record for Land-Rover.Team.Net.
	[ I'm NOT advertising the host name, and neither should you ! ]

	Please remove errant references to 'old' addresses in WEB Pages.

    Cheers,
        --bill  caloccia@OpenMarket.com		   P
						   R
		    http://www.openmarket.com/personal/caloccia/
                                                L  D
   R  1  3  2wd  H        1  3 R  dl OD  L      |  3     
   +--|--|   o   |        |--|-+  o  |   |      H  2
      2  4  4wd  L        2  4    ul N   H         1
   '63 SIIa RHD 88"       '72 Range Rover     '90 RR County
      793-PTA                DAJ-802-L
			   Dewsbury, UK
			    (for sale)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:43:06 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Matt Turner's Moab Rally - May 1996

> if you haven't been to moab, you should consider.  the rock
> crawling can't get better than that...

Moab is a great place.  btw, when I was there in '92, the guy at the tire 
store (across from the circle-K, west end of town) said don't bother 
trying to use the air hose at the circle-K (25cents and it barely works), 
just come on over.  He also monitors ch. 4 (with a high power rig) in 
case of emergency.

Also, there's a micro brew with a great blackberry (I think) beer, but 
the can't beat it place to eat is the Rio Colorado, a block south of the 
main drag.  Fantastic black been soup and it just gets better.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 22:30:38 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Baja Trip

>Anybody out there Interested in taking a trip down to Baja this summer? =
>I would very much like to go but will not go alone. My schedule is open =
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>Ahhh sundrenched beaches, world class fishing, cheap beer, convoy of =
>Land Rovers.... Could it possibly get any better?

I would be very interested.  I've been down the Sea of Cortez side to San
Felipe and down the Pacific side to San Quintin, so I've scratched the
surface.  Personally I would plan on doing some sea kayaking along the way,
so I'd prefer the Sea of Cortez side -- calmer, safer for a lone kayaker.
But I could do my kayaking and then cut over to the Pacific side too.  Maybe
a trip to Bahia de Los Angeles?  What were you thinking of?  And when? --
I'm no good through middle June, pretty much (first baby coming in late
May), but might be very anxious to get away then (in-laws coming for 2
weeks, and I have a 1 bedroom apartment.)

Can we have a show of interested hands?  

And would you please post your suggestion on the left coast list also?

By the way, Baja alone is OK, absent mechanical concerns.  A safe country,
stories about the Federales notwithstanding.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:41:45 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Tours in AZ

I had my Discovery in for some warranty work (failing turn signals) and was
given a loaner through Enterprise.  The loaner was a Pontiac Grand Am, no
Disco.  It was a much worse freeway vehicle than the Disco -- you felt every
bump, and it was very unstable.  One of the worst driving experiences ever.

Cheers!
John

At 10:37 01.02.96 -0500, GElam30092@aol.com wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>You wrote "In a couple of weeks,  I will be heading to Phoenix with the girls
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)]
>Gerry 
>Phoenix w/ RAIN today!!!!

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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