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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 4:32:39 -30000
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	  Contents:
  1 steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com Tue Jan 30 05:58   25/1296  What is a cresent wrench?
  2 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Tue Jan 30 06:35   29/1112  Re: wider wheel offsets f
  3 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Tue Jan 30 06:50   37/1776  Re: What is a cresent wre
  4 oldhaven@biddeford.com Tue Jan 30 08:24   63/3128  Re: Re[2]: Collywobbles
  5 barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com Tue Jan 30 08:40   19/1031  D90/hard cold re-start
  6 73363.427@compuserve.com Tue Jan 30 08:45   56/2544  Re: Heater thoughts
  7 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com Tue Jan 30 08:52   24/1376  Series - Boston Area US -
  8 azw@aber.ac.uk     Tue Jan 30 09:12   38/1957  Handbrake steering
  9 oldhaven@biddeford.com Tue Jan 30 09:44   33/1555  Trade/swap
 10 trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU Tue Jan 30 09:52   47/2001  Re: Series II Insurance
 11 jcwhite3@well.com  Tue Jan 30 09:55   64/3200  Re: What is a cresent wre
 12 bcooper@3wnet.com  Tue Jan 30 09:55   26/1462  Series Insurance
 13 ericz@cloud9.net   Tue Jan 30 10:19   41/2015  Re: What is a cresent wre
 14 ericz@cloud9.net   Tue Jan 30 10:19   39/1819  Re: What is a cresent wre
 15 ericz@cloud9.net   Tue Jan 30 10:19   30/1227  Re: heater mods.
 16 trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU Tue Jan 30 10:20   47/1945  Re: Polarity change
 17 trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU Tue Jan 30 10:30   37/1529  till we meet again
 18 trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU Tue Jan 30 10:34   56/2450  Re: What is a cresent wre
 19 wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us Tue Jan 30 10:43   48/2946  Re: What is a cresent wre
 20 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com Tue Jan 30 11:21   27/1320  Get the members list!
 21 a-susdy@microsoft.com Tue Jan 30 12:29   28/1613  Selling my Defender 90...
 22 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com Tue Jan 30 13:14   28/1545  Series Rover Tip: Harmoni
 23 adallas@systemsoft.com Tue Jan 30 13:19   36/1675  Re: Selling my Defender 9
 24 KKelly6788@aol.com Tue Jan 30 13:23   34/2126  Land Rover Insurance
 25 SLYKDYK@aol.com    Tue Jan 30 13:40   20/1346  flooded Disco
 26 jimi@voyager.Jpl.Nasa.Gov Tue Jan 30 14:59   47/1771  Re: import/export company
 27 smthengr@sirius.com Tue Jan 30 15:26   44/1936  Intoduction/Disco accesso
 28 ChrisF6724@aol.com Tue Jan 30 15:32   22/1281  re: insurance
 29 shaunc@infi.net    Tue Jan 30 15:48   42/1614  Rear window defroster
 30 ASFCO@aol.com      Tue Jan 30 16:06   63/1166  Re: Series: Re: Heater th
 31 dbobeck@ushmm.org  Tue Jan 30 16:18   34/1358  Re: Intoduction/Disco acc
 32 Insoo@ceramatec.com Tue Jan 30 16:42   38/1590  stuck in Tahoe/4wd system
 33 adallas@systemsoft.com Tue Jan 30 16:49   73/2753  Re: Rear window defroster
 34 dbobeck@ushmm.org  Tue Jan 30 16:50   37/1414  Perfect Land Rovers
 35 JoeM@hesston.edu   Tue Jan 30 18:09   31/1436 
 36 0004297420@mcimail.com Tue Jan 30 18:48   16/1037 
 37 tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us Tue Jan 30 19:00   21/1151  rover rentals
 38 DRead@gnn.com      Tue Jan 30 19:15   32/1706  Series IIa Side lenses
 39 Wdcockey@aol.com   Tue Jan 30 19:31   37/2022  Re: stuck in Tahoe/4wd sy
 40 cs@crl.com         Tue Jan 30 19:33  143/6978  Re: Enough!
 41 KROPP_J@CC.DENISON.EDU Tue Jan 30 19:56   30/1567  looking for a rover
 42 Bombdiver@aol.com  Tue Jan 30 20:18   22/1210  Unimog
 43 oldhaven@biddeford.com Tue Jan 30 21:04   49/1772  Fwd: Trade/swap
 44 wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us Tue Jan 30 21:06   36/1769  Re: looking for a rover
 45 DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM Tue Jan 30 21:30   68/3097  Lucas lamp parts
 46 lmkessler@srnet.com Tue Jan 30 22:04   69/2241  Re: Rear window defroster
 47 HMEdwards@aol.com  Tue Jan 30 22:50   25/1340  Re: Series: Oil drain spa
 48 lmkessler@srnet.com Tue Jan 30 23:17   81/4086  Re: Land Rover Insurance
 49 pat@pixi.com       Tue Jan 30 23:47   30/1469  D90 Seat Rattle & Hood La
 50 landrvr@blacdisc.com Wed Jan 31 00:28   33/1437  Re: What is a cresent wre
 51 landrvr@blacdisc.com Wed Jan 31 00:29   42/2148  Re: Polarity change

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 05:35:14 EST
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: What is a cresent wrench?

Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a
crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will
my life suddenly be complete if I get one?
  
Ta, Steve
  
Steve Reddock                         Product Evaluation, 26/12
Xyratex                  Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450  Int.721-4450
REDDOCK at HVTVM         Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:33:59 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: wider wheel offsets for series Landrover

Forward Control rims to get this advantage. They were 5
>Regards, Ian

Ian,
The 101 *is* six stud.But the 11A @ 11B 110FC are five stud.Perhaps
these are what you bought?
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:50:01 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench?

>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will
>my life suddenly be complete if I get one?

Dont see why your life should be any richer than it undoubtedly already
is,but.....its a C spanner.The sort of thing you used to use on a <shudder>
*bicycle*.Also used on some good quality steam fittings.The "nut" would be
round,with grooves along its length.The spanner,shaped like a "C" had a
little lug on the outer end that engaged with one of the grooves.Used before
we found out how to make things badly.On a bike,it is,(or was) used to tighten
or otherwise the nut on the main pedal shaft where it went through the frame.
But what you would use one for on a Land Rover is currently a mystery.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Re[2]: Collywobbles
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 08:24:50 -0500
From: Ron Franklin <oldhaven@biddeford.com>

-- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------

> From:  Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus
> Sent:  28 January 1996 20:04
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
(read: steering relay-rjf) out of 
> the chassis without nuclear explosives or a cutting torch?

-------- REPLY, End of original message --------
The steering on my old beast had about 15 degrees of play due to a
combination of worn out rod ends and wear in the splines of the relay and
both relay arms.  (Be sure to keep the pinch bolts on these arms tight or
the movement will ruin the splines).  The arms and rod ends were easy, but
the relay could have been welded in and no amount of hammering, penetrating
oil or heat caused even the slightest movement.  Even jacking the vehicle up
using the relay shaft so the weight of the front end  was on the relay
didn't work.  I finally had to remove the grill and radiator and build a
fixture involving bars on top of the frame drilled to take 3/4 inch threaded
rod.  The rods went down along the sides of the crossmember and connected to
another bar against the relay shaft, using spacer blocks as necessary.  by
tightening nuts on the bottom of the lower bar I was able to put enough
pressure on the relay to cause the top of the crossmember to start to
distort.  At that point I got out the hammer and managed to get the thing to
move about 1/32 of an inch, enough to make a beer seem in order.  From then
on it was a slow process of tighten, hammer, tighten, hammer, beer....going
on for about 3 hours.  When the relay had moved high enough to get it above
the top mounting flanges I was able top use a large drift and hammer to turn
it back and forth in its socket by banging on the bosses for the bolts.  It
finally came out, but fought up to the last 1/2 inch.  What had been holding
it was 29 years of rust which had expanded the diameter of the relay enough
to effectively make it an interference fit in its bore.  The new relay
dropped right in.
Have fun.

--
 
 Ron Franklin
Bowdoin, Maine, USA
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 8:40:39 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: D90/hard cold re-start

Thanks to all who replied to my questions about the hard re-start in cold 
conditions.

Barnett
(The truck's n' gear and the transmission brake is OFF!)
Childress

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 30 Jan 96 08:43:27 EST
Subject: Re: Heater thoughts

>> If you have passengers very often, I would recommend installing an auxiliary 
heater in the rear.  I just put one in a couple days ago and its great.  Its a
small box that hooks into the existing heater lines and has a built-in fan...If 
you want some more info, e-mail me and I'll describe the whole arrangement. <<

What did you use for a core. I was thinking of trying this with a old series two
combined core and fan  but haven't found a spare yet. Not that it is really
needed down here.

>> In a pinch, however, a large screwdriver 
(square shaft) with a crescent wrench on the shaft will usually free the plug.
When you replace it, use some anti-sieze, and you'll only have to use the 
screwdriver in the future.

I know, I know, use the proper tool for the job.  But after a while you start 
carrying around so many tools that you run out of room for the cooler! :) <<
 
You actually already have the tool. Try inserting a 9/16" open end wrench
sideways into the slot. Works like a charm. Use the largest wrench size that
will fit. 

I used a Craftsman drag link socket for years until I saw a picture in LRO or
LRW of someone doing it this way. Made me feel like an idiot! Sometimes the
simplest solutions avoid us.

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise"
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 30-Jan-1996

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 30 Jan 96  8:44:22 EST
Subject: Series - Boston Area US - Anybody got a spare front propshaft?

I have a terminal case of spline death in my front propshaft, the weather sucks 
and no one has any new spares ( and I do mean NO ONE). Anyboy got a spare in 
good condition they want to sell?

   aj"In 2-wheel drive for the present time"r

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk
Subject: Handbrake steering
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:03:34 UNDEFINED

>There is more to handbrake steering than the 180s practiced (but never
>perfected) by cretins in McDonalds' carparks. It is possible to very
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>that any idiot can do it. BTW this is not one of my hooligan manoeuvres,
>this occurs on proper stage rallys.

I have happy memories of the wide eyes of the opposition at Harrisons Rocks 
car park (talus surface), when I came in driving my old mini, doing about 40, 
yanked the handbrake and spun it thru 270 degrees to park perfectly, facing 
outwards exactly centred in teh parking space between them and the bus on the 
other side.

They looked a little wobbly when they got out of the car. My passengers were 
used to this sort of thing and just got out, picked up the climbing gear and 
strolled casually off discussing which pub to visit at lunchtime. Multo 
cool-points.........

I used to enjoy this sort of thing when I was a kid..........

------------------------------

Subject: Trade/swap
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 09:46:22 -0500
From: Ron Franklin <oldhaven@biddeford.com>

-- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

I'm a little embarrassed to post this for what it says about me.  I have two
aircraft projects (1934 and 1935 Fairchild C8C and C8D), that I'd be willing
to trade for a good Series or RR.  I am asking $23,000 as a straight sale,
so it would be nice to swap for something really nice or trade plus cash. 
Projects not wanted as too many is the reason for the sale.  If any of you
are as odd/crazy as I am you know who you are, and can e-mail me direct at
oldhaven@biddeford.com for details, and spare the list any further
distractions. 

--
 
 Ron Franklin
Bowdoin, Maine, USA
 

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:54:30 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Series II Insurance

> I've had Rovers insured with Allstate for about 8 years. When I put the '65
 IIa on the road last year they listed is as a 1965 Range Rover. A few other
 people with Allstate have had the same experience. No differance in premiums
 though (!!!!).>

I succesfully insured with Allstate also, but left them when they 
posted my payment to someone elses account, canceled me for 
non-payment (which I didn't find out about for over a month) then 
wanted to put me in the high risk group because I hadn't had 
insurance within the past 30 days. I prefer not to deal with 
companies like that. But, if it's that or no insurance....

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 06:55:40 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench?

At 11:50 30.01.96 +0000, Mike Rooth wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>>crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will
>>my life suddenly be complete if I get one?
======================= What Mike Rooth said in response ====================

Dont see why your life should be any richer than it undoubtedly already
is,but.....its a C spanner.The sort of thing you used to use on a <shudder>
*bicycle*.Also used on some good quality steam fittings.The "nut" would be
round,with grooves along its length.The spanner,shaped like a "C" had a
little lug on the outer end that engaged with one of the grooves.Used before
we found out how to make things badly.On a bike,it is,(or was) used to tighten
or otherwise the nut on the main pedal shaft where it went through the frame.
But what you would use one for on a Land Rover is currently a mystery.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

=============================================================================

Now I'm confused.  I know what a crescent wrench is, and I was under the
impression it was called an "adjustable spanner" in Britain.  The open end
of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts and is adjustable via a worm gear
mechanism that moves the lower jaw closer to (or farther away from) the
upper jaw.  I've heard what we call a pipewrench or monkey wrench referred
to as an adjustable spanner as well, but in my dialect of the American
variant of English a pipewrench's jaws aren't crescent shaped.  They're
straight and have toothed edges designed to grip pipes.  Also a pipewrench's
handles are perpendicular to its jaws whereas a crescent wrench's handle go
off at about 60 degrees from perpendicular.

I don't think either device has completed anyone's life, but they are handy
if you have an incomplete toolbox.

Now if someone could tell me what Whitworths are, and who Whitworth was that
I should be mindful of him maybe my life would be complete.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 09:50:42 EST
From: bcooper@3wnet.com (Bill Cooper)
Subject: Series Insurance

Hi there,

I don't know if this will help, but I have had my 66 IIa insured through State Farm in New Jersey for the last 8 years or so, and there has been no problem. As for Comprehensive and collision, we have an 'Agreed Value' on the vehicle which is their standard policy for any non-standard vehicle. 

Also, on the main page of the policy, they do list it as a Land Rover, not a Range Rover, so somebody in the company knows what it is.

Hope this helps,

Bill Cooper
bcooper@3wnet.com
http://www.3wnet.com

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:20:12 -0800
Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench?

On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) wrote:

>Dont see why your life should be any richer than it undoubtedly already
>is,but.....its a C spanner.The sort of thing you used to use on a <shudder>
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>Cheers
>Mike Rooth

Have I been living in tool oblivion for all these years?  Everyone here that 
I've worked with calls what I described (previous post) a crescent wrench...
But I'm not one to get bogged down in nomenclature...

Adjustable wrench, cresent wrench...what's the difference.
Land Rover, Jeep...what's the....sorry, bad analogy.

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:20:00 -0800
Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench?

On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com> wrote:

>Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a
>crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will
>my life suddenly be complete if I get one?

A crescent wrench in the U.S. is also known as an 'adjustable wrench'.  It has a 
thumbscrew which adjusts one end of the jaws to fit most any nut or bolt within 
reasonable size ranges.

I'm generally not a fan of these tools when in the shop (plenty of proper size 
spanners available) but out on the trail, or on the other side of the farm, they 
substitute for a whole tool box full.

No, having one will not cause you some mystical revelation :), but its nice and 
handy to have around.

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:20:18 -0800
Subject: Re: heater mods.

On Tue, 30 Jan 96, asd1@ukc.ac.uk wrote:
>	Could you please send the details to me as I was as cold as hell
>with the recent weather.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>with the recent weather.
>	Why does'nt the LR heater work in the extrem cold ?
The mice that power it are hibernating!  :)

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:22:31 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Polarity change

 Rich Ziegler writes
snip
> flash with a hot wire from the battery.  Also he left out switching 
 the two small leads going to the coil.  Other than these two points 
> he covered the subject well.
snip
If I remember correctly you don't actually have to do it, you car 
will still run, BUT you want to be sure to because your plugs will 
degrade more quickly because bits of metal move in the wrong 
direction when they fire if your polarity isn't right.

This applies also when you disconnect your coil for any reason.  Make 
sure you reconnect the wires to the right terminal.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:33:02 GMT -0600
Subject: till we meet again

Well folks, it seems today may be the last day for awhile, assuming 
I've interpreted the messages from Bill properly. It's been real and 
I'll see you on the flip side. Or in the mud :-)

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:17:24 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench?

> Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a
> crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will
> my life suddenly be complete if I get one?

Yes, your life will be complete, you can ship me your lightweight, 
roll over and die happy. ;-)

Actually a Crescent wrench is an adjustable open end spanner made by 
Crescent. The proper name , here in the US, is an adjustable wrench, 
but Crescent is the most famous so that's what people tend to call 
all adjustable wrenches.

They are also know affectionally as knuckle busters because of the 
effect they have when they slip off the nut (you have to be carefull 
about getting them adjusted to fit properly). As a pipe weldor/fitter 
and iron worker I used them alot because I was always working with 
different sized nuts & bolts and lugging a tool box up a column isn't 
my idea of fun. You really don't need them around cars.

Crescent makes other types of wrenches as well. There are a number 
of mechanics tools on this side of the pond that are similarly mislabeled.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:43:49 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench?

On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Mike Rooth wrote:
> >Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a
	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 6 lines)]
> >crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will
> >my life suddenly be complete if I get one?
 
> Dont see why your life should be any richer than it undoubtedly already
> is,but.....its a C spanner.The sort of thing you used to use on a <shudder>
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> or otherwise the nut on the main pedal shaft where it went through the frame.
> But what you would use one for on a Land Rover is currently a mystery.

Ah, the wonders of the "English" language, and all its infinite
permutations.  Here in the (former) colonies, a Crescent wrench has an
adjustable open end, with the working end set off at about a 30-40 degree
angle from the handle, and the jaw forming four sides of a hex, the better
to grab a hex head nut.  I believe it was originally produced by a company
using the name "Crescent" but it has long since come off patent and is
produced by practically everybody.  The outside of the head is rounded,
and with the jaw open resembles a crescent of sorts.  A good one can be 
very useful; a bad one with loose tolerances will quickly round over
every nut it touches.  The same can be said of the users.

Walt          * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover              * 
              * Davis, California       | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 30 Jan 96 11:14:48 EST
Subject: Get the members list!

If the LRO list doesn't come back up, it might be something you want to have.

You can get it from majordomo.

I have it - you thought I'd let you all get away that easily? 
BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaaaaa.....

    aj"Till then"r

------------------------------

From: Susan Dykstra (ArtSource) <a-susdy@microsoft.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 09:27:51 TZ
Subject: Selling my Defender 90...

I have a blue 1994 Defender 90 with a safari cage and extra back seat.  
I has 22,000 miles on it and I'm selling it for $26,000.  It's in 
perfect condition.  If you are interested, or know of someone who is 
looking for a Defender,   I'm at   a-susdy@microsoft.com    - that's 
Seattle, Washington.

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 30 Jan 96 13:04:24 EST
Subject: Series Rover Tip: Harmonic noises from exhaust

If you get a "Booming" sound or excessive engine noise at certain speeds, check 
the mounts on your exhaust.

I had this problem, and it turned out that the center clamp on my exhaust 
(under the driver's seat) had loosened, allowing the whole length of header 
pipe and intermediate pipe to resonate. I replaced the clamp (after shearing 
the old one...oops) and the noise was dramatically diminished.

     C U Later -Alan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:18:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Selling my Defender 90...
From: "Andrew A. Dallas" <adallas@systemsoft.com>

>I have a blue 1994 Defender 90 with a safari cage and extra back seat.  
>I has 22,000 miles on it and I'm selling it for $26,000.  It's in 
>perfect condition.  If you are interested, or know of someone who is 
>looking for a Defender,   I'm at   a-susdy@microsoft.com    - that's 
>Seattle, Washington.

A "perfect" Defender? Are you sure it's a Land Rover?
-AD

*************************************************
            Andrew A. Dallas
            Full Spectrum Software, Inc.
            360 Market St.
            Suite 18
            Brighton, MA 02135, USA
            (617) 782-9829
            on-site office: (508) 647-2948
            adallas@tiac.net
            http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/
*************************************************

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:23:04 -0500
Subject: Land Rover Insurance

>I've had Rovers insured with Allstate for about 8 years. When I put the '65
>IIa on the road last year they listed is as a 1965 Range Rover.

Be very careful with insurance companies, when I had a '79 BMW 635csi (a car
that was not sold by BMW North America) my insurance company insured it as a
633csi.  This was fine with me and I never had any problems.  After I sold
the car I heard about a guy with a BMW 323i (another model that was never
sold in the US) that had his car insured as a 318i, the insurance company
paid what a 318i was worth (thousands less) when it was stolen.  A few years
later I had the chance to buy a 323i I made sure to have the car appraised
and pay (extra) for a "stated value policy".  I won't go in to details but, I
totaled the car and Farmers Insurance Company offered me 50% of my "stated
value".  I am not the only guy who has had this problem, in the November '95
BMW club magazine there was an article "Stated Value? Hah!"  It wouldn't
surprise me if an insurance company offered to pay a Series owner that has
his vehicle insured as a '65 Range Rover the value of a '65 Range Rover (They
don't exist = $0).  Moral of the story If you own a car that is not in the
Blue Book or if you policy does not list the exact model you have ask a lot
of questions and get every thing they say in writing.

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: SLYKDYK@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:40:05 -0500
Subject: flooded Disco

  Had my Disco flood on starting while I was at 9700 ft above sea level and
the temp was @ 0 f. The service rep at the California dealer talked about
pulling plugs so cylinders could dry out if flooded badly!!! Not my idea of
fun at those temps. Called the dealer in Colorado Springs...They said
disconnect the electic fuel pump at firewall where there is a roll over
switch and the pump engine out with the starter for a short period of
time...reconnected the pump and it fired right up.Never had to do this again
but you folks with efi and electric pumps might keep it in mind..

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 12:00:06 -0800
From: Jimi Patel <jimi@voyager.Jpl.Nasa.Gov>
Subject: Re: import/export company

>From jimi Fri Apr 21 14:45 PDT 1995
	id AA12378; Fri, 21 Apr 95 14:45:46 -0700
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 14:45:46 -0700
From: Jimi Patel <jimi>
Full-Name: Jimi Patel
Cc: jimi@voyager.jpl.nasa.gov
Subject: import/export company
Status: RO

Hello All,

I am in process of importing my L/H BMW 502 Super V8 [1959] into U.S. 
[California/Los Angeles] from my beloved England.

Does anyone know a reputable import/export company??? Any help would
be much appreciated.

Many Thanks,

Jimi Patel

1985 Range Rover
1995 Suburban
e-mail jimi@voyager.jpl.nasa.gov

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:28:18 -0800
From: smthengr@sirius.com (Jeff Smith)
Subject: Intoduction/Disco accessories

Hello everyone:

I am new to the list. I am also a new Owner of a 1996 Discovery my first
Land Rover.
My favorite mail group is the euro-moto list for european motorcycle
enthusiasts. I Own a 1987 Moto Guzzi LeMans 1000 SE.

Does anyone know of a good source for after market accessories, other than
those sold by the dealers. In particular I would like to find some running
boards that look more like the ones on a Ni***n P*th***der as well as a
push bar/brush guard. I also am interested in finding a trailer setup to
pull my Moto Guzzi. 

I live in San Francisco, but mail order is no problem, if it is the right
thing. I would be happy to post my impressions of the new Discovery if
anyone is interested.

Lastly, does anyone know the availability (in the US) and price range of
the 1984 90 inch Pick up?
Regards,

Jeff Smith. S.E.
Chair SEAONC Computer Applications Committee
phone: (415) 543-8651
fax: (415) 543-8679
email: smthengr@sirius.com

Smith Engineering
27 South Park
San Francisco, CA 94107

------------------------------

From: ChrisF6724@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:33:27 -0500
Subject: re: insurance

I am currently using State Farm.  They could not find Land Rover listed on
the computer, so they checked under "Rover".   According to them, my primary
car is now a '73 Rover.  I think my rates are somewhere around $320 every 6
months. (Anyone know if this is high?, it doen't seem like it to me...)  I
don't think it will cover "off-road" accidents though... BTW age 28, married,
no accidents, multicar, $500 deductable, full coverage.

Chris Fisher,  '73 88 Series 3
Fisher Associates Architects and Engineers
Denver, Colorado

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:50:19 -0500
From: Shaun Carrigan <shaunc@infi.net>
Subject: Rear window defroster

Anybody ever fix a rear window defroster? I'm no electrician, but it =

seems like it would either work or it wouldn't. Yet mine works on a =

couple of wires near the top of the window, skips a wire, works =

again on a wire and then =8B this is the part I really don't =

understand =8B heats up a short section in the middle of a wire, with =

no apparent resistance on either side of it. This leaves me rather, =

well, foggy...

Thanks for your thoughts, and thanks for the many responses to my =

recent post about electric seat switches. I fixed mine with a can of =

tuner cleaner and sent the $100 replacement back to Atlantic =

British.

Shaun Carrigan
'88 RR

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:07:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Series: Re: Heater thoughts

How about using one of the 12 v ceramic heaters I've seen in catalogues
advertised as Back Seat Heat at around  $ 90.00 have seen another similar one
at $ 49 from Northern Hydraulics....wonder if they would be able to do the
job...

                                                                        Rgds,
Steve Bradke

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 16:24:05 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Intoduction/Disco accessories

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

Hello everyone:

I am new to the list. I am also a new Owner of  my first
Land Rover.

Hey, nice to meet you. 

Try ROvers North 802-879-0032 in VT.
or Atlantic British 800 533 2210 in NY

I'm not sure but maybe British pacific in Burbank, CA 800 554 4133

Nice knowin' ya, and everyone else too.

Cheers
Dave

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:42:36 -0600
From: Insoo@ceramatec.com (Insoo Bay)
Subject: stuck in Tahoe/4wd system

Hi all,
I posted this message 1/27/96 but I believe many of us did not receive the
full list.  So I post here again (I would really hear the answer).

Question was:

I still have a question to be solved.  Are most 4 wheel engaged part time 4
wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism (ex, 50-50
torque split)? I think they are.  Then, what would be the superiority of LR
products in terms of drivetrain?  For example, do LRs still have better
system in packed snow road, or muddy terrain (assume it does not need
suspension travel)?

Please excuse my ignorance.

Happy Rovering!

Insoo
95 Red 5spd Disco (Mistress)
Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:49:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Rear window defroster
From: "Andrew A. Dallas" <adallas@systemsoft.com>

The defroster in many cars is an electrically conductive paint applied to 
the window. The paint has a certain electrical resistance which causes it 
to warm when current passes through it. The warming paint then causes the 
window to warm.

Frequently these defrosters get scratched. The scratch causes the circuit 
to be broken. If the circuit isn't complete, current doesn't flow through 
it and the paint doesn't warm.

You can find paint to repair these scratches in most auto parts stores. I 
haven't used any so I can't suggest a manufacturer.

BTW. I'm jealous of your even limited ability to defog. My Defender has 
the post snow instant fog option with no defogger.
-AD

>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>Anybody ever fix a rear window defroster? I'm no electrician, but it =
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 28 lines)]
>Shaun Carrigan
>'88 RR

*************************************************
            Andrew A. Dallas
            Full Spectrum Software, Inc.
            360 Market St.
            Suite 18
            Brighton, MA 02135, USA
            (617) 782-9829
            on-site office: (508) 647-2948
            adallas@tiac.net
            http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/
*************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 16:56:26 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Perfect Land Rovers

A "perfect" Defender? Are you sure it's a Land Rover?

Actually its probably just one with no electrics. There's also a perfect Disco 
available (no steering column) and a Perfect Range Rover (no gas tank) Oh yeah, 
and the perfect Series (no Previous Owner)
OK that's it.

Ciao.
Sayonnara (sp?)
Adios
Au revoir
BYe
Cheers
Toodles

Alright that's enough melodramatic crap. The list is coming back. Don't worry. 

Latex

Dave

------------------------------

From: "Joe Manickam" <JoeM@hesston.edu>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:05:00 -600

Greetings from Hesston Kansas!  Wondering if there would be anyone
out there from Hong Kong that could help me out.  My wife and I are
planning to visit Hong Kong in a few weeks and have some questions. 
Please respond to my personal address at <joem@hesston.edu>.  I look
forward to hearing from you.  Take care and God Bless.

                                          Shalom,  Joe Manickam

JoeM@Hesston.edu
340 S. Main
Hesston, KS  67062
USA
(316) 327-3137
1963 109 pick-up

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 18:08 EST
From: "Shari M. Judy" <0004297420@mcimail.com>

-- [ From: Shari M. Judy * EMC.Ver #2.3 ] --

Unsubscribe land-rover-owner

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:45:58 -0700 (MST)
From: Tebbin Salvesen <tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us>
Subject: rover rentals

Does anyone know of a rental  co. in Jolly olde england-e that might have
either RR or Discos for rent? I'm going in may for a month and would like
to rent something that i know well as driving is somewhat hectic over there!
thanks! tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:19:23
From: DRead@gnn.com (David  Read)
Subject: Series IIa Side lenses

A few days ago there was a flurry of msgs regarding how to remove the 
side lenses in "later series". I read these with interest 'cause I have 
a '71 SIIa (TKACHNC) with a burned out side light. 
I don't remember who described how to remove the lens but the method 
was to *carefully* pry the rubber seal...etc. Well, I started to 
*carefully* pry the seal and it *slowly* started to tear. I assume that 
this seal is original and will probably give its all before it allows 
the lens to be removed. 
Does anyone know if the just gaskets (seals) are available anywhere? I 
checked the catalog I got from Atl. Brit and the only thing they have 
is a complete lamp assembly (actually, they sell them in pairs, 2 for 
$22). I haven't yet checked w/RN.

Thanks in advance,
David

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:33:55 -0500
Subject: Re: stuck in Tahoe/4wd system

In a message dated 96-01-30 17:02:35 EST, you write:

-I still have a question to be solved.  Are most 4 wheel engaged part time 4
-wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism (ex, 50-50
-torque split)? I think they are.  Then, what would be the superiority of LR
-products in terms of drivetrain?

With a part time system in 4wd, or a full time system with center diff
locked, the front rear torque split varies depended on the relative loads on
the front and rear tires. In this case think of your propshaft as one
continuous length of (flexible) tubing. If the front tires are on wet glare
ice, and the rear tires are on dry pavement then the torque split is 100%-0%.
Reverse your LR and the torque split is 0%-100%.

With the center diff locked a full time system has no advantage over a
part-time system due to the type of transfer case. BUT with a full time
system you don't have to continually decide when to shift to 4wd because
conditions are deteriorating, and when to shift to 2wd because traction is
improving. Also vehicle stability may be improved on marginal traction
surfaces. Only when conditions are really bad and locked center diff. is
necessary are the systems equal.

David Cockey

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:29:17 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Enough!

At 12:42 PM 1/30/96 -0800, Sue Bernard <bobnsueb@maxinet.com> wrote:
>Michael, what I'm trying to figure out it why you ask Bob and Scotty all
>these questions???

 Frankly, Sue, it's none of your business!  Bob and I wrote each other
 occassionally, and he even answered this latest email you posted (should
 I post his reply too? :) .  If he doesn't care for my email or questions
 I'm sure he's man enough to say so...  aren't you Bob?? 

>Perhaps someone else can give you a satisfactory answer since you seem to
>think both Bob and Scotty talk in circles, so I'm posting your latest
>message to Bob to the Left Coast List with this thought in mind.

 Well, this is definetly a first.  I know you share a mailbox, and most
 likely read each others mail, but why you publicly post 'private' mail to
 another individual is beyond me.  Between this and the latest LROA fiasco
 you drew me into, I can only conclude that your medication has lapsed.
 Out of pity to you and deference to Bob, I'll restrain myself from
 further comment, except to say that deleting your further email messages
 is easy enough, while having the members of the LROA in these trying
 times dominated by your unpredictable siamesian schizophrenic personality
 is another matter.

>Cheers,

 I don't think so, and you shouldn't either.

                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

>Sue Bernard
>----------------------------
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 89 lines)]
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page:   http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------

From: KROPP_J@CC.DENISON.EDU
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:56:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: looking for a rover

Hello,
	I am looking for a 1969 or earlier IIa or III.  Basically looking for 
and everyday vehicle that I can fusts around with.  Want it to have a solid 
frame, good body panels, good interior and good engine.  I am willing to put 
some work into it but nothing to major.  Right now, I lack the resources of a 
garage.  Want it fully runnning and able to be driven home.  Also willing to 
have a frame put in it as long as everything else is in great shape.  I 
realize I'll probably be spending a certain amount whether I buy it or put a 
new frame on it.
Hope you can help,   Kropp_J@Denison.Edu

------------------------------

From: Bombdiver@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 20:17:58 -0500
Subject: Unimog

That interesting Unimog that you saw with the front-end loader and the
folding bucket in the back is known as the C-Tool.  It's used by Army for EOD
work as well as combat engineers.  It'll do anything from excavating buried
ordnance to making the perfect size foxhole.  The Army has an instructional
course located at Redstone Arsenal.  The Navy doesn't use it because you
can't fit it into a Zodiac and it's not airdrop capable.

Cheers,

Andy

------------------------------

Subject: Fwd: Trade/swap
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 20:58:16 -0500
From: Ron Franklin <oldhaven@biddeford.com>

-- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Date: Tuesday, 30-Jan-96 09:07 AM

From: Ron Franklin             \ Internet:    (oldhaven@biddeford.com) To:  
lro@land-rover.team.net  \ Internet:    (lro@land-rover.team.net)

Subject: Trade/swap

I'm a little embarrassed to post this for what it says about me.  I have two
aircraft projects (1934 and 1935 Fairchild C8C and C8D), that I'd be willing
to trade for a good Series or RR.  I am asking $23,000 as a straight sale,
so it would be nice to swap for something really nice or trade plus cash. 
Projects not wanted as too many is the reason for the sale.  If any of you
are as odd/crazy as I am you know who you are, and can e-mail me direct at
oldhaven@biddeford.com for details, and spare the list any further
distractions. 

---

--
 
 Ron Franklin
Bowdoin, Maine, USA
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:06:43 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: looking for a rover

So where is denison.edu?  Good luck on that pre 1969 Series III.  And is 
your search worldwide?

wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us

On Tue, 30 Jan 1996 KROPP_J@CC.DENISON.EDU wrote:

> Hello,
> 	I am looking for a 1969 or earlier IIa or III.  Basically looking for 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> realize I'll probably be spending a certain amount whether I buy it or put a 
> new frame on it.
> Hope you can help,   Kropp_J@Denison.Edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:30:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Lucas lamp parts

All,

> Does anyone know if the just gaskets (seals) are available anywhere? I 
> checked the catalog I got from Atl. Brit and the only thing they have 
> is a complete lamp assembly (actually, they sell them in pairs, 2 for 
> $22). I haven't yet checked w/RN.

    My favorite source for Lucas lamp parts is The Roadster Factory in
    Armagh, PA.  (Can you tell I used to own Triumphs?)  They have
    original Lucas parts where possible, and "British Motor Heritage
    Approved" repros where necessary (complete with original Lucas part
    numbers for you purists!)

    If you know your part numbers, call 800-678-8764
    If you need part number assistance, call 800-234-1104
    Worldwide fax ordering is 814-446-6729

    (Things go smoother once you have an established customer number
    with them...)

    I will list the lamp part numbers here for reference.  Also note
    that many other parts (generator, starter, etc) are nearly identical
    to Triumph or MG equivalents, often differing just in the drive gear
    or pulley or whatever.  Bush/brush/bearing type parts are cheap and
    identical from these guys.

    POINTED LENS PARTS:
    	-- LU54581622	Clear lens
    	-- LU54581651	Amber lens
    	-- LU576105	Rubber body (short) [this is the "gasket" part]

    FLAT LENS PARTS:
    	-- LU54583038	Clear lens
    	-- LU575003	Rubber body (long)

    COMMON PARTS:
    	-- LU572734	Chrome rim
    	-- LU54584780	Bulb holder plate, single filament (typical for LR's)
    	-- LU576985	Bulb holder plate, dual filament (get creative!)

    When I got my truck, it had no front marker/signal lights.  I put
    together a set from these very parts, with clear pointed lenses for
    marker lights and amber pointed lenses for turn signals.  I have
    also seen original Series II/IIA LR's with amber pointed for signals
    and clear FLAT for markers.  Whatever trips your trigger!

    Hope this helps someone...TRF is a great company, in my experience.

    Duncan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:01:37 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Re: Rear window defroster

At 02:50 PM 1/30/96 -0500, you wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>Anybody ever fix a rear window defroster? I'm no electrician, but it =
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 30 lines)]
>Shaun Carrigan
>'88 RR

Shaun

I saw a response to you saying the wires are painted on the rear window and
it reminded me.

Some years ago VW had a repair kit for their rear defrosters that was not
much more than some masking tape and a tube of paint for repairing breaks in
the wire.

You may find such a kit in a auto parts store.

Good Luck.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover
Newport New Hampshire
603-863-7883

PS I too used the tuner cleaner to get my seats running.

------------------------------

From: HMEdwards@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:50:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Series: Oil drain spanner

Tim,  

I spent many efforts trying to find what in somes areas is called a
"dogbone", with numerous projections at each end to fit recessed plugs.  No
such luck, Mac tools, Snap On, Sears and JC Whitless all came up with a blank
look.  Even tried tracking down a company which had produced them.  Closed up
shop.  However, the boy and girls at Sears do sell 1/2 inch. open end
wrenches, which when turned on side fit the slot perfectly.  And if it
breaks, they give you a new one.

Harry Edwards
Las Vegas
72 Series III  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:15:24 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Re: Land Rover Insurance

At 01:23 PM 1/30/96 -0500, you wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>>I've had Rovers insured with Allstate for about 8 years. When I put the '65
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)]
>Blue Book or if you policy does not list the exact model you have ask a lot
>of questions and get every thing they say in writing.
>Kevin Kelly

As an insurance agent I know about stated value.  It is not worth the extra
you get charged for it.  The Stated Value endorsement to an auto policy (and
there may be some variations state to state) says it will pay the LESS of
either the stated value or the actual cash value of the auto.  Think about this:

You insure your auto with the stated value endorsement for $10,000.  You pay
for $10,000 of coverage.
1. Say the actual cash value (ACV) is $5000 (market conditions or it rusted
out etc) when you are totaled or what ever.  You get $5000 less your deductible.

2. Say it increases in value, it is now worth $15,000.  You get $10,000 less
the deductible.

The regular old, plain auto policy pays actual cash value at the time of the
loss.  The stated value endorsement does nothing for the buyer of the
policy.  It may help the insurance company put a cap on an auto they do not
know.  BUT Land Rovers from 65-70 and from 87 have insurance rating symbols
assigned to determine what companies should charge.

What you want for an endorsement (good luck) is the agreed value
endorsement.  This means they will repair, replace or pay up to the agreed
amount of insurance on the auto.  Fire trucks are usually insured this way
since they are well cared for and tend to have very little use for their age.

If you have pictures, receipts etc to justify what you think it is worth so
much the better.

Anyhow, I hope this is of some help and not too confusing and I usually do
not like to talk insurance after work.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover (an insurance symbol of 17 on a scale of 1 to 21)
Newport New Hampshire
603-863-7883

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:48:14 -1000 (HST)
From: Pat Guerin <pat@pixi.com>
Subject: D90 Seat Rattle & Hood Latch Update

Aloha from Hawaii!  Just got back the D90 and here's a recap for those 
suffering the same problem:

	1. Passenger Seat Rattling due to cracked seat runner. Replaced 
with MXC5778 (new subframe).

	2. The shop updated the latch assembly and only changed the cable 
due to the wear and tear it took until then.  Now it works like a charm.  
Gee now I can use two fingers :)

We now have about 18K on the odometer and no other problems to report.  
Aloha for now...

pat

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:51:52 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench?

>Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a
>crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will
>my life suddenly be complete if I get one?

Crescent wench (n) A babe from Turkey.

(Opps... wrong book)

Crescent Wrench (n) An adjustable spanner. Comes in Metric, SAE and
Whitworth sizes.

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:51:51 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: Polarity change

Rich Ziegler replies...

-     Ashley Horn asked for instructions on reversing polarity and 
-Mike L. replied.  But, he flashed the wrong terminal on the 
-generator.  Instructions I have in hand and have successfully used 
-for years say the smaller terminal (field terminal) is the one to 
-flash with a hot wire from the battery.  Also he left out switching 
-the two small leads going to the coil.  Other than these two points

Thanks, Rich... Somewhere around here I have real Lucas instructions on how
to polarize a generator. They came with a rebuilt generator for my Triumph.
But it's been a while and the old memory is missing a bit or two...

And, I completely forgot about the coil polarity. Not a major point, but you
will get a hotter spark if it is connected correctly. One of my books show
checking the spark by bouncing it off a lead pencil. You can tell if the
coil is connected correctly based on the color and direction of the spark on
the lead... (WARNING!! All you kids with Discos and Rangies... don't be
trying this with your Mont Blanc pens!!)

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 50 lines 2097 [forwarded 286 whitespace 596]
 Output: lines 1610 [content 1019  forwarded 91 (cut  195) whitespace 532]

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:01:00 UTC 0000
Subject: D90, Hood Latch

(LAN Addressees) LRO submissions

There have been numerous postings on the D90 hood latch.  If it takes more
than two fingers worth of pull, and pulls out more than an inch before
releasing, it is likely faulty and will need to be repaired.  The problem is
that the factory cable routing is incorrect, so if they route the new cable
the same way as the old one it won't last very long.  My garage found a
factory fix for it when installing the third cable and now it works very well.

Bill Kessels, 94D90, Ottawa Ontario

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:54:09 EST
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Crescent wrenches, pipe spanners & whitworth

Hi all,
  
Thanks for the help with crescent wrenches, I'll guess Mike was wrong
and it is an adjustable spanner.
  
The pipe spanner someone mentioned with serrated teeth and a similar
thumb wheel which operates teeth PERPENDICULAR to the handle (also with
a slight spring controlled movement to tighten the grip as you pull) are
called Stilsons, presumably a brand name here.
  
There are also another type, often called pipe grips, which I call
footprints, which are similar to parrot faces (cos they look like parrot
faces!) which are like a pair of bent pliers with a moveable pivot.
  
Are the people who think up these things on medication?
  
Whitworth is the name of a thread standard. It is quite cunning as the
head of the nut/bolt is a size directly related to the thread diameter
(in inches). It a 1/2" whit nut refers to a nut which takes a half inch
diameter whit bolt. The head for this will be considerably larger & the
half inch spanner will look more like a 1 inch.
  
It is rarely used these days, most people are unaware of a whit nut when
they find one and assume it is a worn UNF or something, until the try
and replace the nut!
  
The only whit nut I know of on a landy are the bolts holding the
handbrake drum on. There may be more.
  
If this is the end of the list, so long and thanks for all the fish.
  
Steve
  
Steve Reddock                         Product Evaluation, 26/12
Xyratex                  Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450  Int.721-4450
REDDOCK at HVTVM         Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM

------------------------------

From: kessels=20bill=20=28ca-otta-mc=29%ott01%c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 08:57:00 UTC 0000
Subject: D90, snow in engine

(LAN Addressees) LRO submissions

John Putham had a problem with his Series II engine being covered in ice and
snow.  Last weekend I was staying over in a small town in Quebec, when we had
a brutal wind/ice/rain storm.  When I went out in the morning to start the
D90, I noticed the wind had forced a large quantity of snow through the hard
top weatherstripping into the Rover.  I tried to start it, lots of battery
juice, but it wouldn't catch.  Having driven fuel injected cars for 15 years,
I am very paranoid about flooding, so I stopped at three attempts (at this
point I thought I had already flooded it).  Popped the hood, and saw to my
dismay the distributer, alternator and most of the plug wires were covered in
ice--alas, there is no weather stripping between the bonnet and the wings(and
a 1cm gap).  I plugged in the block heater for a couple of hours, borrowed
some WD-40 like stuff from a nearby garage, scraped off the ice and doused the
whole works.  It started.
I had to put up with the razzing from my friends that my expensive, heavy duty
vehicle wouldn't start, but at least I didn't have to suffer the degregation
of having it towed away!  Now I carry WD-40 with me, and am looking for a
solution to better seal the bonnet.
Bill Kessels, 94D90, Ottawa Ontario

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:48:30 UT
From: "Matthew Loxton" <mloxton@msn.com>
Subject: Crescent Wrench

John wrote <clip> .. .  The open end of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts 
and is adjustable via a worm gear..<clip>

Out here in the colonies we know and love this tool, and call it a "shifting 
spanner", some call it a "Free-State Micrometer" but that's a derogatory term 
aimed at the inhabitants of a particular province. I had thought that this is 
the thing referred to as "crescent wrench".

The non-adjustable form of this, and often accompanied by a ring bit at the 
opposite end, is known as an "open ended flat", or "flat and ring" in the case 
of the combo. (some even come with a wobbly articulated socket as the other 
end, by means of which one removes knuckle-skin).

The jobbie with the teeth and jaws at 90deg to the handle, is known as a "pipe 
wrench" or "Bobbejaan wrench/spanner" (meaning baboon spanner) or just 
"wrench".

SO, if you were to ask your assistant for the "crescent wrench", you might 
very well find in your outstreched hand, a bent baboon spanner. (or maybe an 
Islamic one?)

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:29:22 -0500
Subject: Re-galvanizing/Baltimore

Someone mentioned a place in the Baltimore area that does galvanizing..Does
anyone have the Name or phone number of that place??  Thanks,  Steve

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:52:37 -0800
Subject: Re: Series: Re: Heater thoughts

				

On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, ASFCO@AOL.COM wrote:

>How about using one of the 12 v ceramic heaters I've seen in catalogues
>advertised as Back Seat Heat at around  $ 90.00 have seen another similar one
>at $ 49 from Northern Hydraulics....wonder if they would be able to do the
>job...

I think these types of heaters draw a significant amount of power from the 
vehicle's electric system, at least much more than a heater fan.  The electric 
units I've seen listed put out something like 3000 BTU (unknown current draw), 
my coolant 'powered' unit puts out 16,000 with less than 5 amps at full fan 
speed.
If this is so, then most series LRs would never have the power to keep such an 
electrical accesory working, except maybe at highway speeds.  You would then 
have to change the charging system...

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:26:50 -0500
Subject: West Coast re-galvanizing

also supposed to be a place on the West Coast that does regalvinizing  work
for British Northwest L-R...anybody know who that might be??? Thanks. Steve

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:31:44 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Enough!

Huh? Please take stuff like this outside.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 12:31:31 UT
From: "Matthew Loxton" <mloxton@msn.com>
Subject: Crescent Wrench

John wrote <clip> .. .  The open end of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts 
and is adjustable via a worm gear..<clip>

Out here in the colonies we know and love this tool, and call it a "shifting 
spanner", some call it a "Free-State Micrometer" but that's a derogatory term 
aimed at the inhabitants of a particular province. I had thought that this is 
the thing referred to as "crescent wrench".

The non-adjustable form of this, and often accompanied by a ring bit at the 
opposite end, is known as an "open ended flat", or "flat and ring" in the case 

of the combo. (some even come with a wobbly articulated socket as the other 
end, by means of which one removes knuckle-skin).

The jobbie with the teeth and jaws at 90deg to the handle, is known as a "pipe 

wrench" or "Bobbejaan wrench/spanner" (meaning baboon spanner) or just 
"wrench".

SO, if you were to ask your assistant for the "crescent wrench", you might 
very well find in your outstreched hand, a bent baboon spanner. (or maybe an 
Islamic one?)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 06:05:40 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Crescent Wrench

Colonies?  Are you talking about the US or Canada?  I've never heard anyone
from any state call a wrench a spanner.  Must be Canadian, eh?

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California

At 09:48 31.01.96 UT, Matthew Loxton wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>John wrote <clip> .. .  The open end of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)]
>very well find in your outstreched hand, a bent baboon spanner. (or maybe an 
>Islamic one?)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:12:22 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Enough!

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

At 12:42 PM 1/30/96 -0800, Sue Bernard <bobnsueb@maxinet.com> wrote:
>Michael, what I'm trying to figure out it why you ask Bob and Scotty all
>these questions???

Wow, I had no idea such soap opers style goings on took place in the halls of 
Land Roverdom. As if the list wasn't exciting enough with all this other 
worthless banter. Once again, please remember what Land Rovers are about and 
stop wasting our time (and yours) with these silly squabbles. Nobody cares 
whether you have something to prove or whether you can prove it. 
Please if you must respond to this don't clutter the net, send it to me 
personally.

Dave" Tastes like Spiced Ham" Bobeck
'72 SerIII SWB "Green Car"
Burleith LRC
Washington DC

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:40:43 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Wenching, Wincing 

Colonies?  Are you talking about the US or Canada?  I've never heard anyone
from any state call a wrench a spanner.  Must be Canadian, eh?

What's all this about wenches and Spaniards? I thought this was the Land Rover 
list.

Ha Ha
Dave

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:37:48 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Safari Door thing.

     
     Does anybody remeber seeing a piece in LROI about fittin a gas 
     cylinder from a hatchback in place of the factory door stay on a 
     Series Rear door? I remember seeing it but I don't remember what month 
     it was and I think someone made off with it anyway. Any ideas how to 
     easily do this?
     
     Dave "Going for Plush"

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 06:45:00 -0800
Subject: whitworth  & SUs on Land Rovers

>  The only whit nut I know of on a landy are the bolts holding 
>  the handbrake drum on. There may be more.

You will also find them holding the steering swivel balls on the front axle
housing.  And of course if you have other cars you'll find them on SU
carburators.

I don't know if I mentioned it on this list.....  The intake manifold for the
TR3 lines up with the intake ports on the 2-1/4L petrol Land Rover engine.
 It should be possible to adapt the engine on right hand drive cars to dual
SUs.  I would guess better petrol milage and more power.  The steering box is
in the way on left hand drive cars, otherwise I would have tried it.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:45:17 -0400
From: ay@georgeson.com (Armando Yslas)
Subject: HEATER

I would like to fit a SIII with a Kodiak Heater-

I would really appreciate any suggestions about:

1. Finding one (In NY-New england) and
2. How EXPENSIVE will it be?

Thanks!

AY

------------------------------

From: /G=Curtis/S=Palmer@mhs-olympics.attmail.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:47:41 -0500
Subject: Repair guide for Series IIa or III  available?

Date: Wednesday, 31 January 1996 9:44am ET
From: Curtis.Palmer@ACOGTAO
Subject: Repair guide for Series IIa or III  available?

Greetings from Atlanta, GA...

As a prospective D90 or Series IIa/III owner (this year, I
keep telling myself) I'd like to know if a do-it-yourself
repair guide exists?

Many many years ago when I drove a late model VW Bug I had a
manual called "The Idiot's Guide to VW Repair" (or something
like that).  It came in a spiral bound format and by the
time I sold my bug it was soiled lovingly with oil and dirt.

Is there something like this for Land Rovers?

Curtis

===               Atlanta, GA USA                ===
=== Host city for the 1996 Summer Olympic Games  ===
=== with only 170 days until Opening Ceremonies! ===

------------------------------

From: DucNut@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:55:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Disco Accessories

Hi Again Jeff -

Glad to see that you found your way to the rover list from euro-moto.

With repsect to the disco accessories, I agree that Rovers North & Atlantic
Brit
are good sources.  I recently received some info from Safari Gard regarding
their
add on bumpers, roof racks, etc.  They have a "rock slider" product that
replaces 
the plastic door sill guard(?) on the disco.  it doesn't provide a step, but
apparently
does provide substantial protection for that area.  You can call them at 
909.698.6114 & talk to Greg or Brandi.

If you want copies of this info today, just let me know & I'll fax it to you.

BTW, you might try Rovers West (Pat) at 602.748.8115

ttfn, Keith Armstrong  515.224.7640 voice  515.224.0305 fax

------------------------------

From: HalatGRM@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:08:32 -0500
Subject: Re: stuck in Tahoe/4wd system

>With the center diff locked a full time system has no advantage over a
>part-time system due to the type of transfer case.

Therefore, you would expect the new T**ot* 4R**n*r (with part time 4wd and
locking _rear_ differential) to be more capable than a Disco in really
slippery situations?  (Say it isn't so!)

Hal Hunnicutt
'96 Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:59:21 -0600
From: Insoo@ceramatec.com (Insoo Bay)
Subject: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system

Hi all,
I posted this message 1/27/96 but I believe many of us did not receive the
full list.  So I post here again (I would really hear the answer).

Question was:

I still have a question to be solved.  Are most 4 wheel engaged part time 4
wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism (ex, 50-50
torque split)? I think they are.  Then, what would be the superiority of LR
products in terms of drivetrain?  For example, do LRs still have better
system in packed snow road, or muddy terrain (assume it does not need
suspension travel)?

Please excuse my ignorance.

Happy Rovering!

Insoo
95 Red 5spd Disco (Mistress)
Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 11:06:57 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: HEATER

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

I would like to fit a SIII with a Kodiak Heater-

I would really appreciate any suggestions about:

1. Finding one (In NY-New england) and
2. How EXPENSIVE will it be?

I imagine theres afew laying about on parts cars here and there, but I'd suggest
that the satndard Series III heater if operating properly is more than 
sufficient to heat the car. Unless you've got a 109, then I guesss try the 
Kodiak. You still have to deal with a 30 year old heater core though.

Cheers
Dave "Driving with the windows open"

------------------------------

From: "Hazell Paul" <hazp1@worc.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:07:35 +0000
Subject: Midlands 4x4 jumble

Did anyone try to go to the Midlands 4x4 jumble near Malvern at 
the weekend (Sunday)? I saw loads of RR, SIII, Discos etc milling 
about on the road around the area but it seems it was 
cancelled/postponed until March the 10th? :-( [can anyone confirm 
date]. 

But what I want to know is why?. There was a bit of 
snow about - nothing much (put it this way I went in a VW Golf, my 
LT/WT is in my garage in Cornwall - were in the middle of moving 
house) so I hope to God it wasn't "due to bad weather" - it would be 
a little ironic - can any one enlighten me?

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 31 Jan 96 11:36:12 EST
Subject: Repair guide for Series IIa or III  available?

 >>Greetings from Atlanta, GA...<<
Ditto

>> As a prospective D90 or Series IIa/III owner (this year, I
keep telling myself) I'd like to know if a do-it-yourself
repair guide exists? <<

There are quite a few good guides available. My personal favorites for series
vehicles are the Haynes guide and the Land Rover shop manuals. The shop manual
is quite extensive but generally very good at explaining things. It is better
than most factory shop manuals that I have seen. The Haynes manual is less
extensive but is written for the owner and not the mechanic. I mainly use the
shop manual and if it gets to confusing then go to the Haynes manual for
clarification.

I have yet to see the D90 factory manuals, but it is probably similar to the
Range Rover which is about 3" thick.

The factory manuals prices vary from place to place, but normally run about
$75-SerIII. $95-SerIIa. The haynes guide is around $25 I think.

>>Many many years ago when I drove a late model VW Bug I had a
manual called "The Idiot's Guide to VW Repair" (or something
like that). It came in a spiral bound format and by the
time I sold my bug it was soiled lovingly with oil and dirt. <<

You think *THAT* had oil and dirt, just you wait! :)

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise"
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI
        

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 31-Jan-1996

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:52:45 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches, pipe spanners & whitworth

>Thanks for the help with crescent wrenches, I'll guess Mike was wrong
>and it is an adjustable spanner.

OK,I'll concede at least *part* of the "argument" (which isnt).In the
wider context,obviously a crescent wrench is an adjustable spanner,*but*,
I've just been talking to an air con engineer,who is the same age as myself,
and,like me,he recognises the term crescent wrench as a "C" spanner,and also
as a sort of "open ended ring spanner" particularly for use on pipe unions.
So perhaps it depends on age and location,or something.
Steve mentioned footprints.This is the English equivalent,in a way to the
"Crescent" thing in the US.Footprint were originally the firm that made
these things.I suspect they have been absorbed into the Stanley/Moore&Wright/
whoever conglomerate now since I havent seen a genuine pair for some years.
BUT,and this thread reminded me,a decent pair of Stillsons,or preferably
*two* pairs are very useful indeed round stubborn old Land Rovers.The more
you heave on them,the tighter they grip.But get a good pair,the cheapo
Chinese things break.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:01:10 +0000
Subject:       Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system

Quoting Insoo Bay, from 31 Jan 96 

> I still have a question to be solved.  Are most 4 wheel engaged part time
> 4 wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism (ex,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> still have better system in packed snow road, or muddy terrain (assume it
> does not need suspension travel)?
Series landys are different to defenders/disco's/RR's (and other systems)

A series vehicle is usually rear-wheel drive only. You may optionally lock 
the transfer box to split the power 50/50 (front/rear), but the axle diffs 
will still spin if one wheel loses grip.

The newer vehicles have a limited-slip centre diff. This system will allow 
a limited difference to occur between the front and rear axles (both of 
which are driven at all times). Locking the centre diff just stops the 
slip happening at all (useful at slow speeds!)

Locking diffs actually refer to axle diffs - locking the two sides of an 
axle together. With two locking diffs and the centre locked, all 4 wheels 
will turn at the same rate (which is really bad unless there is some give 
in the ground - think about the distance travelled by the 4 wheels as you 
turn a corner)

Does this help? I didn't really understand the question, so I hope I've 
answered the right thing ;-)

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

Quote of 1996: "A.L.S. is a good example of scotissityness"

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:17:30 -0800
Subject: Re: stuck in Tahoe/4wd system

On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, HalatGRM@aol.com wrote:

>>With the center diff locked a full time system has no advantage over a
>>part-time system due to the type of transfer case.
>Therefore, you would expect the new T**ot* 4R**n*r (with part time 4wd and
>locking _rear_ differential) to be more capable than a Disco in really
>slippery situations?  (Say it isn't so!)

All things being equal (you can tell I majored in Economics!), the Toyota you 
describe will perform better off-road than the Land Rover.  The Disco with the 
center diff locked is the same as any part-time 4x4 with the front axle engaged. 
 The Toyota adds the added traction dimesion of a locking (or limited slip?) 
rear diff,

BUT, you can't just consider torque distribution when you evaluate a vehicle's 
off-road capability.  The Toyota is not match for the LR because of much greater 
axle articulation and superior approach, departure(especially) and breakover 
angles.  The locking rear diff in the Toyota is fine, but only if one rear wheel 
is touching is it an advantage.  If you have a vehicle that can keep both all 
four wheels in constant contact with the ground, the torque is much better 
distributed, and wheelspin substantially eliminated.

Although a bit convoluted explanation...the LR still comes out ahead!

Regards,
Eric

P.S. Put a locker in the rear of a Disco and it even gets better!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:48:42 -0800
Subject: Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system
From: Hugo Madden <madhugo@best.com>

>I still have a question to be solved.  Are most 4 wheel engaged part time 4
>wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism (ex, 50-50
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>system in packed snow road, or muddy terrain (assume it does not need
>suspension travel)?

...but of course if you're a Poupon-sucking Rangie owner, you have the 
added advantage of electronic traction control, which automatically 
applies braking to any wheel that's spinning, thereby transferring 
additional power to the wheel at the other end of the same axle.  
Supposedly, this is a better deal than a locking diff although why LR 
installed it on Rangies, which as we all know never go off-road, I do not 
know!

                                                        _______
                                                       //_/_|__\___
                                                       \_ - ___ - _d 
                                                         (o)   (o)

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:10:00 -0500
Subject: Re: D90 Seat Rattle & Hood Latch Update

In a message dated 96-01-31 00:07:47 EST, you write:

>	1. Passenger Seat Rattling due to cracked seat runner. Replaced 
>with MXC5778 (new subframe).
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>due to the wear and tear it took until then.  Now it works like a charm.  
>Gee now I can use two fingers :)

Thanks for posting this info Pat.  Good to know I am not alone in these exact
problems....oh the joys of mass production.
JOhn.
RoverRattler

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:10:45 -0600
From: William Owen <ib011ca@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us>
Subject:  Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system -Reply

>I still have a question to be solved.  Are most 4 wheel engaged part time
> 4 wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism
....
 > still have better system in packed snow road, or muddy terrain
>(assume it does not need suspension travel)?

   I think what you are asking is whether there is a difference between a
Disco/D90/older RR with locked center diff and a vehicle with part time
four wheel drive. 

   I don't think there is a difference as to the drive.  A older jeep cherokee,
for example, with part time only 4x4 locks the center diff when the 4x4 is
engaged.  This is why it is part time and should not be driven on dry
pavement with 4x4 engaged.  Full time 4x4 is advantagous in some
situtations where dry pavement is mixed in with snow and ice.  Part time
and/or locked center diff  is better for all out traction.

   As to whether LR has better traction in snow, there are many factors
involved.  Locking center diff is very good and limited slip or locking axle
diffs would add more traction. Tires are crucial also.  The Driver may be
the most important factor.  (While driving a Cherokee, I have passed in
ditches and helped out many other 4x4's which were, technically,
superior or equal to mine.) 
   I can't prove to you that a LR is better in snow than other 4x4's with
part time four wheel drive (perhaps someone else on the lists can) but
there are many antidotal accounts which seems to indicate they are. 
However, I feel their biggest advantage in general is the stregnth of their
components and their suspension.

------------------------------

From: JFisk1120@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:47:01 -0500
Subject: Advice please.....

In a couple of weeks,  I will be heading to Phoenix with the girls for some
sun and fun.  I have a listing of "Jeep Tours" in the Phoenix/Scottsdale
area.  We would like to take a "western desert adverture, etc" tour.  Does
anyone in that area know any of these companies that are listed and if so, do
any of them have Land Rovers?  God forbid if I should have to ride in a
Jeep!!!  I would appreciate any advise on this.  Please email me direct
because I am having problems downloading attached files therefore I have been
unable to read the digest until AOL clears my path.

Thank you again,

Jan Fisk
JFisk1120@aol.com
(-30 degree wind chill here and counting the days until 70 degree weather!!!)
Companies I have found listed in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area:

Absolutely Arizona! Adventure Tours
An Arizona Adventure
Arizona Awareness Desert Jeep Tours
Arizona Bound Tours, Inc.
Arizona Desert Mountain Jeep Tours
Arizona Unique Buggy Adventures, Inc.
Arrowhead Desert Jeep Tours
Bronco Billy's Arizona Adventures
Diamondback Adventures
Trailblazer Tours
Wild West Tours, Inc.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:55:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches, pipe spanners & whitworth

On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Mike Rooth wrote:

> BUT,and this thread reminded me,a decent pair of Stillsons,or preferably
> *two* pairs are very useful indeed round stubborn old Land Rovers.The more
> you heave on them,the tighter they grip.But get a good pair,the cheapo

	You mean a pipe wrench... :-)  Very useful, especially on 
	unco-operative crank bolts/starter dogs.

------------------------------

From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@mail.biddeford.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:08:21 -4
Subject: Sleeper top

Does anyone know of  a fellow named Doug Richardson,  or are you on the 
list Doug?  I have an article from the 70's describing his Land Rover and 
it was fitted with something called a SLEEPER TOP which opened Dormobile 
fashion but used an adapter frame he had designed.  The Land Rover 109 
diesel was pretty impressive looking and also incorporated his own designs 
for a bumper which contained 5 1/2 gal of oil and a camping rig which could 
be installed  in 15 min by sliding it in the back.  It would be interesting 
to know what became of the designs, the Rover, and Doug, as he planned to 
market these things.  He lived in Malibu, California at the time, and had 
taken Land Rovers to Moscow, the Sahara, and Central America, according to 
the article.  (Petersen's Complete Book of Four-Wheel Drive--The Ultimate 
Land Rover.) 

Ron Franklin
Bowdoin, Maine, USA

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:25:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Advice please.....

Hey Jan....I'd love to go to Arizona with some girls too..Heck....i'd even
bring Talbot and Richer along for the ride....(its cold here too)....Rgds
 Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 20:21:30 UT
From: "Matthew Loxton" <mloxton@msn.com>
Subject: Crescent wrench

John wrote <clip> .. .  The open end of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts 
and is adjustable via a worm gear..<clip>

Out here in the colonies we know and love this tool, and call it a "shifting 
spanner", some call it a "Free-State Micrometer" but that's a derogatory term 
aimed at the inhabitants of a particular province. I had thought that this is 
the thing referred to as "crescent wrench".

The non-adjustable form of this, and often accompanied by a ring bit at the 
opposite end, is known as an "open ended flat", or "flat and ring" in the case 

of the combo. (some even come with a wobbly articulated socket as the other 
end, by means of which one removes knuckle-skin).

The jobbie with the teeth and jaws at 90deg to the handle, is known as a "pipe 

wrench" or "Bobbejaan wrench/spanner" (meaning baboon spanner) or just 
"wrench".

SO, if you were to ask your assistant for the "crescent wrench", you might 
very well find in your outstreched hand, a bent baboon spanner. (or maybe an 
Islamic one?)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:22:13 -0500
From: Sanjay Prasad <Prasad@ba-iplaw.com>
Subject:  Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system -Reply

With respect to the advantages of full-time versus part-time 4wd, I was
driving on I-89 South from Stowe, Vermont to Boston a few Sundays
ago in my '90 Range Rover during a light snow storm which had put just
enough snow on the road to make it slippery.  The snowfall was patchy
so the road at some points was clear, at other points had patches of light
packed down snow, and at other points was partly clear and partly
snowy/icy.  We went by one Ford Explorer in the ditch, and saw, at
different times, a Jeep Wagoneer and a Jeep Grand Cherokee spin out,
but, luckily, not hit anything.
     During the entire 3 1/2 hour drive, I didn't notice any slip on the RR.  I
assume that the road conditions weren't slippery enough for the
part-time vehicles to use 4wd.  I also wonder if the type of tires those
vehicles were using had much to do with slipping.  I've noticed that alot
of the newer SUVs have street tires.
     Also, does anyone know about how much effect the RR's relatively
thin tires have with traction on the snow?

Sanjay Prasad
'90 Range Rover
Boston, Massachusetts

------------------------------

From: HalatGRM@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:39:41 -0500
Subject: Discovery Maintenance

My dealer stressed the importance of bringing my Disco in for scheduled
maintenance and getting the "official" stamp in my maintenance book.  I'd
rather do my own simple maintenance (oil changes, etc.)  Can anyone shed any
light on how important this is to warranty, resale, etc?

While I have the floor, is anyone putting together a Disco faq?

Hal Hunnicutt
'96 Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:49:41 +0000
From: Kevan Shaw <kevan@krshaw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Singapore Land Rovers

I have just returned from a week in Singapore (working, not holiday!) and,
as I have been trying to persuade my friends there to buy a Landie went to
have a look at one. It was a series 2A diesel SWBof unknown vintage but
probably pre '65, it went ok but took ages to start, was smoking, blowing
fumes from the oil filler and all the pedals were at the limits of their
travel. I looked very good having been nicely painted in maroon with lots
of bits of chequer plate in the load bay footwells etc and had a cut down
tilt providing a roof (all that is really required in that climate! asking
price? Sing. Dollars 20,000 that is about uk=A3 9000.! they have a brutal ca=
r
tax system involving a thing called COE ( Certificate of Enitilement) which
accounts for a fair whack of the price, I have been told that this price is
about the cheapest you can get any moving vehicle for but still!!

There was also a series 3  diesel SWB which had spent most of its life
towing things, it had a Salisbury axle a double front bumper and showed
signs of several colours of green under its present off white paint so I
suspect is ex  military but this does not show on the record. It also has
no heater or even provision for same, no hole in the wing and a horizontal
air filter where the heater core and fan should be. Also there was a
battery shaped drop in the cubby under the passenger seat and an extra
cubby under the centre seat, anyone any idea about origins of this one? I
suggested my friend went back to see this one when it was fixed up as the
series 2 looked to me like a money pit!

regards

Kevan Shaw

I tried sending this last week but I don';t think it ever appeared, let me
know if this is a duplicate posting folks!

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:11:06 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches, pipe spanners & whitworth

> these things.I suspect they have been absorbed into the Stanley/Moore&Wright/
 whoever conglomerate now since I havent seen a genuine pair for some 
years.>

Mike,
Crescent is still going strong. As a matter of fact I just bought 
another Crescent adjustable wrench. They also came out a few years 
ago with a {(Vice-grip) uh-oh, another explanation needed} that's 
better than Vice-grips.

> BUT,and this thread reminded me,a decent pair of Stillsons,or
 preferably *two* pairs are very useful indeed round stubborn old Land
 Rovers.The more you heave on them,the tighter they grip.But get a
 good pair,the cheapo Chinese things break.>

When I was a pipefitter I never bought anything but Rigid brand pipe 
wrenches. They also make them in Aluminum (to match Land Rovers, I 
had to relate it somehow) that are just as strong as the all steel 
variety.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date:     Wed, 31 Jan 96 15:47:14 EST (2047Z)
From: LTC Larry Smith <smithla@arngrc-emh2.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  Crescent wrenches, pipe spanners & whitworth

Mike,

What you call a "crescent" wrench is what we call a flare nut
wrench.  Looks like a ring spanner with a small space cut
out to allow slippage over tubing, etc.

The American venacular has added "Crescent" wrench, adjustable
jaw spanner, because of the trade name.  Much like "kleenex"
is generic for facial tissue and "xerox" for all copies.

'til later,

Larry

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 31 Jan 96 15:27:28 EST
Subject:  Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system -Rep

Disclaimer: I live in the south so know little about ice and snow driving.

    I would think that one of the benefits of having full time FWD versus the
part time, is that in icy conditions you have the benefit of a center diff while
in FWD. This way *each* wheel can turn at whatever speed it wants. If there is
no center diff then there will be some rotational differences between the front
and rear axles. This must be made up by tire slip and to a limited amount
drivetrain slop. I would think that this slip, while quite small, could lead to
loss of traction and control. I would lock the center diff only when I thought
the probability of a tire losing traction was high. But hey, what do I know<g>.
  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise"
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 31-Jan-1996

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:28:17 -0500
Subject: D90 Problems
From: "Andrew A. Dallas" <adallas@systemsoft.com>

I'm about to bring my D90 in for its 15,000 mile service and hopefully 
get a "few" defects taken care of. I've read about several of these 
problems showing up in other D90s and was wondering how many of these 
problems are common in other D90s. The list of problems is frustratingly 
long but I do expect Land Rover Metro West to take care of them all under 
warrantee. LRMW has been great in the past. If you've had any of these 
problems taken care of under warrantee or had any problem getting your 
repairs covered under warrantee, I'd like to hear about them. I might 
expect to have a few of these problems in a car that was five years old 
or more but this vehicle is a '95.

Here's the list:
Driver Seat 
  - Broken spring in the back causing nasty pointy springs to stick out.
  - Sticky Seat adjustments. Both the recline and forward/backward 
movement is very stiff.

Rear Taillights
  - Water in lenses.
  - Running lights don't function (probably caused by the water)

Rear Door
  - Rusty top hinge bolt
  - Rattle (probably caused by rusty bolt allowing door to move up and 
down)

Fuse Box
  - Fuse holder not installed

Rollbar
  - Padding is cracking

Front Headlight Fixture
  - the right side panel is held on with screws which are rusting. The 
left is fine.

Heater Blower
  - switch is VERY stiff

Hood Release
  - cable is VERY stiff. I'm worried that the cable will break in the 
none too distant
    future.

Passenger Window (Hard Top)
  - Much more wind noise than the driver's side.

Driver Window (Hard Top)
  - The front pane must be opened befor the rear pane can be opened.
-AD

*************************************************
            Andrew A. Dallas
            Full Spectrum Software, Inc.
            360 Market St.
            Suite 18
            Brighton, MA 02135, USA
            (617) 782-9829
            on-site office: (508) 647-2948
            adallas@tiac.net
            http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/
*************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:39:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Discovery Maintenance

On Wed, 31 Jan 1996 HalatGRM@aol.com wrote:

> While I have the floor, is anyone putting together a Disco faq?

	Not formally...  I have a large text file here called "disco",
	as well as a second called "rangerover".  I and Ben Smith
	maintain the Land Rover FAQ at http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/

	Rgds,

	Dixon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:06:11 -0500
From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg)
Subject: Re: Series: Oil drain spanner

I just learned this last night while draining/dropping the rear diff to
remove the sheared spline from a broken rear halfshaft.  It seems that the
handle of one of the wrenches that came with the original Land-Rover
toolkit is perfectly sized to remove these plugs.  Use a "crescent"
adjustable wrench on the handle for a little extra leverage if necessary.

Of course, *I* don't have the original Land-Rover toolkit, though I'm now
in the market for one.  (Anyone have an extra?  EMAIL me.)  Fortunately, I
have a friend who does.  Thanks Doug (Main) for loaning me your spanner, as
well as technical know-how and labor in getting my Rover back on the road.

As for that screwdriver (mis)used as a punch to drive that torsional
distorted spline piece from the diff: no worries.  "IT BECAME DAMAGED UNDER
*NORMAL* USE!"

(I just love saying that to the guys in Sears' tool department)

RoverOn!

JAB

==                                                                      ==
 Jeffrey A. Berg          Purple Shark Media                 Rowayton, CT

                         jeff@purpleshark.com
                          ==================
               My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
          My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
                       Taste for the good life,
                      I can see it no other way.
                                --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)
==                                                                      ==

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Discovery Maintenance
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:35:47 -0800

I've had my Disco in to the dealer for all scheduled maintenance as well as 
off-interval oil changes and they NEVER stamp that little book. But I always 
keep the receipts (it seems like a lot of the info is in some computer 
somewhere)  I think the key is to keep dated receipts and to note the milage 
if you (or Jiffy-Lube) does the service.

----------
From: 	HalatGRM@aol.com[SMTP:HalatGRM@aol.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, January 31, 1996 12:39 PM
Subject: 	Discovery Maintenance

My dealer stressed the importance of bringing my Disco in for scheduled
maintenance and getting the "official" stamp in my maintenance book.  I'd
rather do my own simple maintenance (oil changes, etc.)  Can anyone shed any
light on how important this is to warranty, resale, etc?

While I have the floor, is anyone putting together a Disco faq?

Hal Hunnicutt
'96 Discovery
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:24:02 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Thanks to Bill Caloccia

I am sure everybody will join me in thanking Bill for the tremendous job he 
did in maintaining the LRO lists thru thick and thin. I sincerely hope that 
this is not the end! Peter Kutschera and I will try and talk an Austrian 
provider into giving LRO a temporary roof over the head, or at least a 
lean-to, but this will take some time and we are not sure the rather small 
operation can provide the necessary access for so many people. We will keep 
in touch with Bill for technical advice. Please, everybody out there with 
better posibbilities, do your best to keep this going - leaf springs and 
squeaky steering columns, unite for once!

Once more - many, many thanks, Bill, and hope we manage to resurrect the 
lists together!
Good rovering
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:43:02 -0800
Subject: Re: Discovery Maintenance

On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, HalatGRM@aol.com wrote:

>My dealer stressed the importance of bringing my Disco in for scheduled
>maintenance and getting the "official" stamp in my maintenance book.  I'd
>rather do my own simple maintenance (oil changes, etc.)  Can anyone shed any
>light on how important this is to warranty, resale, etc?

I believe there is a law in the US (may vary from state to state) which 
prohibits the arm twisting that you're getting from your dealer.  In other 
words, the mfg. must honor the warranty even if scheduled maintenance is done at 
another facility.  This applies unless the scheduled maintenence is done free of 
charge (as in some "all-inclusive" leases).

I was made aware of this law (at least in NY) while working in a garage in high 
school, the independent folks love this because they can get the business that 
the dealer would otherwise command.  I'm sure that any independent service (ha!) 
station or JiffyLube place will give you the low down on the laws in your area.

As far as resale is concerned, there is something to be said for presenting a 
prospective buyer with a ream of service reciepts from new.  This really would 
only be applicable, though, if you're going to sell the vehicle privately, on a 
trade-in they just look at the blue book.  

I don't really know if the extra cost incurred today to go to the dealer for 
service will be realized when you go to sell your Disco.  If you consider the 
time value of money, it is definitely not a good proposition.  A dollar today 
(service cost savings) is worth more than a dollar several years hence 
(increased resale value).

As always, this is all my humble opinion.

Regards,
Eric

Wow! My education actually came in handy for once ;)

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:43:22 -0800
Subject: Full Time 4x4

With everyone wondering about the merits of full time 4x4 on the road, I thought 
I'd share some of my experiences with my Stage 1 (full time 4x4).

Around here, many of the back roads are dirt and loose gravel in the summer and 
muddy or snow-packed in the winter.  I drive quite fast on these roads, where 
the advantages of full time 4x4 are obvious.  The most noticeable attribute 
(over the Ford Explorer and Toyota 4Runner I drive from time to time) is the 
neutral steering when accelerating through a turn.  Both the Explorer and the 
Toyota need great care to keep the back end from breaking free.  The Rover just 
rides through as on rails.  In addition, when the roads are really slick, the 
full time 4x4 allows for deceleration with downshifting.  This way, all four 
wheels are taking the force more or less equally.  This, as opposed to braking, 
where the front wheels lock up prematurely or downshifting in 2wd where the 
rears lock up.

Granted, some of these attributes can be had on a part time vehicle in 4wd but 
the flexibility to have this at all times is great.  The highway is when this 
shines:  most of the spin outs you see on the highway are from one of three 
things, either the driver plowed on the brakes (locking the front first), the 
driver lifted off the gas to quick (breaking traction in the rear), or the 
driver punched the accelerator to much (again breaking traction in the rear).

The full time 4x4 reduces the possibility of two of these situations.  Because 
the power or engine braking is distributed equally over four wheels, instead of 
two, the chances of breaking traction (skidding) is reduced.  It still takes 
smooth driving to negotiate snow-packed roads but the full time 4x4 is 
definitely an asset...IMHO, of course.

Regards,
Eric

BTW, the plow guys around here have a name for the most dangerous thing on the 
road during the winter: a Jeep Grand Cherokee with New Jersey plates :)

------------------------------

From: William Terry <wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com>
Subject: Re. Bill's message
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:11:02 -0500 (EST)

Would someone please post Bill's msg regarding the list again. It must have been in one of the digests I deleted when I fell behind reading them.

______________W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______________
  How do we acquire wisdom along with all these shiny things? (David Brin)

  wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com
  http://glenfiddich.minerva.bah.com:8062/CyberJungle.html
  MINERVA Development Team, Booz, Allen & Hamilton

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:04:11 -0700
From: "Lee Zeltzer" <lzeltzer@isdnet.com>
Subject: Re: D90 Problems

Andrew A. Dallas wrote:
> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> I'm about to bring my D90 in for its 15,000 mile service and hopefully
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 65 lines)]
>             adallas@tiac.net
>             http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/
> *************************************************

I have not seen any of those problems on my D90SW, but I have a speaker 
grill fall off and my muffler disconnect from the exhaust pipe. Guess 
I'm lucky!
-- 
Lee Zeltzer, Senior Consultant
Innovative System Design
100 N. Stone Ave. Suite 605
Tucson AZ 85701
(520)791-3323 X 21
http://www.isdnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:50:52 -0600 (CST)
From: Ray Harder <ccray@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Matt Turner's Moab Rally - May 1996

i got the following in the mail and called in my intent
to attend.  matt said the more the better (probably a limit
to that, but he didn't say that).  he said he is most
concerned about an accurate dinner count, so, of course, RSVP.
i volunteered to post to the net and he said "good idea"...

if you haven't been to moab, you should consider.  the rock
crawling can't get better than that...

ray harder (siia 88 (lulu), aka experimental)
moab 1992, 1994

-------------------------------------------------------------
--   exact wording of notice                               --
-------------------------------------------------------------
Land Rover Rally  Moab, UT  May, 1996

Please join Tanner's Land Rovers in Moab, Utah for their first
annual rally.

On May 1, 1996 through May 4, 1996, we will be holding
our first annual rally in Moab.  This will be four days of
family fun that will include:  great off-roading, a rally,
car show/swap meet, raffle, and a barbeque.  This should be
a great time and we look forward to seeing you there!

A tentative schedule of events are as follows:
Wednesday, May 1, 1996:  Registration, scenic off road trip, or
challenging/technical off road trip.

Thursday, May 2, 1996:  More off roading

Friday, May 3, 1996:  Rally

Saturday, May 4, 1996:  Car show/swap meet  Barbeque/Raffle
some items to be raffled:  complete set of Bilstein shocks,
free wheel hubs, Land Rover toys, and anything else that you
might want to bring!

For additional information or questions, contact Matt Tanner at 
970-247-0703, or Mike Weaver at 970-884-0484.  RSVP requested.
Tentative barbeque price:  $11.00/person.

------------------------------

Subject: Land Rover Toy News
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 18:54:17 -0500

I have just returned from a lovelt trip to Florida. Saw lots of Disco's 
and Range Rovers. Only one D90 stopped Number 2059 a black one in the 
Gardens mall in west palm beach.

Hopped over to Freeport in the Bahamas, no Land Rovers in sight.

'Was in a Toys R Us in West Palm and found a leego cobination pack # 1720 
for $9.99 that includes a 90 type vehicle. Also got a couple of Range 
Roves aswell

TTFN

Robin

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:52:20 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Goodbyes?

"Good bye.  And thanks for all the fish."

See y'all on the other side.  
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: 31 Jan 1996 20:36:22 -0500
From: "Bill Skidmore" <skidmore@mitre.org>
Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench?

Well, John has it partly right.

Skidmore's guide to all you ever wanted to know about common wrenches and =
their misues says:

Crescent wrench is an adjustable wrench, with smooth jaws, that uses a =
worm gear to adjust the jaw depth.  The jaw opening is usually between =
0-45 degrees off center with the handle.
Spanner was used on those fittings, usually electrical, as in alternator, =
etc, which had ribs (splines) spaced at approximately the same interval =
as the corner on a hex nut.  We used to use them often for the electrical =
connections on military vehicles (kinda the justification to buy =
specialized tools that will only work on one model of vehicle, the same =
as most new cars).
Pipe Wrench and Monkey Wrench are very similar, in that they also use a =
worm gear to adjust the jaw width, but the jaws are perpendicular to the =
centerline of the handle.  The difference is the the Monkey Wrench uses =
toothed jaws, and the monkey wrench uses smooth jaws.  Pipe wrench used =
most often on hex-sided pipe fittings.  Monkey wrench used on pipes (it =
grips the pipe because of the teeth).  In many cases a monkey wrencg can =
be interchanges with a good pair of channel lock pliars.  Just depends on =
how much torque needs to be applied.

Boy, talk about anally retentive - I have to get a life quick!

Bill

 ------ From: Owner-LRO@uk.stratus.com, Wed, Jan 31, 1996 ------ 

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 06:55:40 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench?

At 11:50 30.01.96 +0000, Mike Rooth wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>>crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. =
Will
>>my life suddenly be complete if I get one?
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =
What Mike Rooth said in response =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Dont see why your life should be any richer than it undoubtedly already
is,but.....its a C spanner.The sort of thing you used to use on a =
<shudder>
*bicycle*.Also used on some good quality steam fittings.The "nut" would =
be
round,with grooves along its length.The spanner,shaped like a "C" had a
little lug on the outer end that engaged with one of the grooves.Used =
before
we found out how to make things badly.On a bike,it is,(or was) used to =
tighten
or otherwise the nut on the main pedal shaft where it went through the =
frame.
But what you would use one for on a Land Rover is currently a mystery.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Now I'm confused.  I know what a crescent wrench is, and I was under the
impression it was called an "adjustable spanner" in Britain.  The open =
end
of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts and is adjustable via a worm =
gear
mechanism that moves the lower jaw closer to (or farther away from) the
upper jaw.  I've heard what we call a pipewrench or monkey wrench =
referred
to as an adjustable spanner as well, but in my dialect of the American
variant of English a pipewrench's jaws aren't crescent shaped.  They're
straight and have toothed edges designed to grip pipes.  Also a =
pipewrench's
handles are perpendicular to its jaws whereas a crescent wrench's handle =
go
off at about 60 degrees from perpendicular.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:56:59 -0800
From: jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (john hess)
Subject: bombing for info

Howdy,

It's me bombing everyone for some info.  Who had all the cool underbody
protection put on his d90?  I read all the email but deleted it as it just
didn't apply to my dormobile.

Now I'm thinking that the right photos and text would be an awesome article
for the AW.

Could I have the correct person email me?

TIA,

jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us
from home via modem
Land-
  -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda owner!

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system -Reply
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:33:18 -0800

I'd say that the LR (Disco/RR) has some advantages that the Limited Slip 
4-Runner doesn't. Better tires (for snow & ice) depending and better (and 
more) weight distribution. So "better or worse" is hard to tell because it 
depends on the conditions.  Not the least of which is the driver as other's 
have pointed out. I was on a "snow run" and the Disco's outperformed (less 
wheel spin and more efficient progress) the pickups & 4-runners with and 
without lockers. I think in that case the tires and weight distribution 
(i.e. light rear-end in pickups) had a lot to do with it.  

Of course a Disco with a lockers would be tops!

But as always, YMMV.
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:23:35
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: Take a dip...in molten zinc !

To all interested in hot dips... here it is again:

Baltimore Galvanizing (who thought THAT name up? )
7110 Quad AV
Baltimore, MD 
410-288-1188

Bill Adams
3Dmentia computer animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington, MD 20895
301-949-9475

'66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel  ...all there

------------------------------

From: stretch@vol.net
Date: Thu,  1 Feb 96 12:36:49 PST
Subject: member list

Sorry for 11th hour plea, but could someone forward the members 
list to me...I've been having trouble...I'm sure it's me.

Any assist appreciated.

Bye everyone...I'll watch for new info.

Thanks to all who have helped out with info, etc.

-------------------------------------
Name: jcollins
E-mail: stretch@vol.net
Temp assgn:  Hong Kong
Date: 02/01/96
Time: 12:36:49
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:57:37 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Series: Advice On Painting Frame?

I've decided to paint the axles and frame of my 109.  I painted the swivel
housings during the recent front end rebuild and now the axles look crummy
by comparison.  After I paint them the frame will look needful.  And so on.

I was planning as follows:  Crawl under truck; Use wire brush and scraper to
remove all dirt, crud, scale, etc;  Degrease liberally; Repeat until
satisfied; Clean out drain holes; Brush paint with gloss black RustOLeum
paint; Many beers.  (Frame is sound and no repairs are needed -- just want
it pretty.)  No, I'm not planning to remove the body.

Anyone who's done this have helpful hints?  (Besides wearing goggles.)
Since my frame is unrusted and I live in dry L.A., is it important to treat
the inside of the box sections?  If yes, how would I do it?

Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:01:44 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Series: Source for Smiths-Lookalike Tach/Voltmeter?

I am thinking of adding a tachometer and a voltmeter to my SIIA dash.  There
is a blank aluminium plate between the two vent handles that would be
perfect.  Is there a source for these instruments that will match the
existing Smiths instruments?  So I don't have to stick on some hotrod tach .
. . because next comes the Hurst shifter and soon I'd be driving a Camaro.

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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