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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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From: "Tom Walsh" <tomw@netcom.com>
Date:          Sat, 27 Jan 1996 02:28:43 +0000
Subject:       Spam the butthead

I just Anti-Spammed krazykev@kjl.com with a boatload of his 
subscription forms ( I did last time also ( GRIN :) ) 
Time to write the line speed auto-anti-spammer!

I hope he likes Spam, Everyone in harmony sing ( and send to 
krazykev@kjl.com )

"spam-spam-spam-spam-eggs-spam" :)

Tomw, green eggs and spam

PS: please make it a point to send him more spam!
Imagine that from a Disco owner! Now wheres them grocery carts and 
curbstones :)
---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*
                       Fluent Networks
             "Intelligent Networking Solutions"
Tom Walsh
tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com
95 LR Disco "The Green Monster"
#include <std_disclaim.h>
*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:35:28 +1100 (EST)
From: Dean Cording <dean@holly.aspect.com.au>
Subject: Landrover Comic Spotting

The current Phantom episode in 'The Canberra Times' featured the Phantom 
driving a Series III.

So there you go, even the Phantom prefers a Series LR :-)

Dean

=============================================================================
Dean Cording                                   ASPECT Computing P/L
                                               86 Northbourne Ave
Dean.Cording@aspect.com.au  (Work)             Canberra, ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA
Dean@holly.aspect.com.au    (Private)          ACN. 005 083 670

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 96 10:02:23 UT
From: "Matthew Loxton" <mloxton@msn.com>
Subject: Collywobbles

Have you checked the steering damper?

My S-III would develop a serious steering wobble, which would make other 
motorists go pale. (obviously the wheels were doing the funky chicken too). 
The wobble would start at around 55 Km/h and continue down to almost 
stationary once started. They would disappear though, if I accelerated hard, 
and then bled speed off slowly.

I did a field change on the steering damper, and LO!, fifteen minutes later I 
was back on the road, problem gone. Changing requires simple crescent wrench 
and screwdriver type tools.

In the meantime, enjoy the feeling.

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 28 Jan 96 10:30:06 EST
Subject: Series Stuff: Brake Drums

While trying to get my brakes to behave, I noticed that the factory spec for the
maximum oversizing of the brake drums is 0.06" (0.03" per side). I couldn't
believe that it was this small! I would think that would barely allow for one
drum resurfacing. Mine are so far beyond this that I can't even adjust the rear
pads to lock :( so the drums are going to need replacing, but I don't want to
replace them every other time I change pads. With the amount of mud and grim
that finds its way into my drums, I wouldn't think they would stay in spec even
that long. I will definitely be cleaning the mud in the drum out frequently from
now on.

Does anyone have a good idea how oversized I should allow the drums to get??

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise"
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 28-Jan-1996

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 10:06:39 -0800
From: gthrall@ix.netcom.com (Glenn Wm. Thrall )
Subject: Magazine SPAM

Another one. I've returned his material five or six times. Perhaps if 
we all returned the spam we could get back to debating the merits of 
Guinness and Series (or whatever) LR.

Glenn Thrall
gthrall@ix.netcom.com
---------------------

This spammer's address follows:

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 11:16:01 -0500
From: michal19@netquandry.net (Michal Hirschberger)
Subject: FAQ 19 / *STOP*......... before you buy another over-priced 
USA magazine at the

--------------------------------

GWT

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:40:24 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: 1/27 digest

On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, Oscar wrote:

> Could someone please forward the complete digest of 1/27.  Out of the 80
> submissions I only got until 20 or 21.

Hi Oscar,

I just checked my copy of the 1/27 digest, and it too is truncated.  The 
last message looks like it may have confused the Majordomo and caused a 
short circuit.  I haven't tried it, but the full version may be on file 
if you want to ask the Major to send it to you.  

Personally, I'm finding that too many of the messages are about the
proposed split, and I'm not interested in wading through the dross.  Once
this nonsense runs its course (again), the number of messages should
decline by a large percentage.  That's assuming that we have a list after
Feb. 1. 

WRT dross, don't forget to return the spam to krazykev@kjl.com, changing
the subject line to something that will encourage him to open the file. 
With the same subject line, his system is set up to return it to the
sender. 

Rgds,

Walt          * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover              * 
              * Davis, California       | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:43:11 -0600 (CST)
From: "Soren Vels Christensen" <velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: RE: Series Stuff: Brake Drums

In message 28 Jan 96 10:30:06 EST, 73363.427@compuserve.com  writes:

> Does anyone have a good idea how oversized I should allow the drums to
> get??

I heard that some places here in Denmark will oversize as much as nescessary
to make a smooth surface. Then they make or aquire a set of shoes with
oversize pads and grind them to a perfect match. It is of course wise to buy
two or three extra sets of shoes with this solution. Also, i think that any
shop that wants customers alive and able to spend money again will warn you
if drums are worn too thin for a safe lathe.

I don't know if shops do this kind of work in other countries.

I would go for new drums and shoes though.

rgds
sv/aurens

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:43:13 -0600 (CST)
From: "Soren Vels Christensen" <velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: RE: Spam the butthead

In message Sat, 27 Jan 1996 02:28:43 +0000,
  "Tom Walsh" <tomw@netcom.com>  writes:

> I just Anti-Spammed krazykev@kjl.com with a boatload of his
> subscription forms ( I did last time also ( GRIN :) )

I believe that Mr. krazykev has received quite a lot of spam since he started
his enterprise. I bet he has a few scripts that directs most of it to
/dev/null. I wonder if an anti-spam campaign is a total waste of time and
bandwith.

I bet.
sv/aurens

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 28 Jan 96 14:44:16 EST
Subject: Quad Bikes

Graeme

[/]   ___            [/]
[\]__/   \___________[\]
[/]__     ___________[/]
[\]  \__o/           [\]
[/]                  [/] <<

Looks like someone's doing a "frame up"

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 28-Jan-1996

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:26:49 -0800
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Disco check engine lights

Gerald wrote:

> For the third time in three months of ownership the "Check engine"
> light came on in my Disco.

Often, this just means low fuel pressure. How's your pump? Or there could 
be something up with the ECU.

-- 

Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 Discovery V8i

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:01:40
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: Re: Brake Drums...Leave 'm be!

	I firmly believe that resurfacing drums is a waste of time and money 
unless the drum is warped. why remove material in the name of smoothing the 
inside when it's going to return to the same condition in a few hundred 
miles.
Bill Adams
3Dmentia computer animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington, MD 20895
301-949-9475

'66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel  ...all there

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:03:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Collywobbles

----------------------------- Begin Original Text ------------------------

My S-III would develop a serious steering wobble, which would make other 
motorists go pale. (obviously the wheels were doing the funky chicken too). 
<snip>

I did a field change on the steering damper, and LO!, fifteen minutes later I

was back on the road, problem gone. 

----------------------------- End Original Text ---------------------------

Yuueee!   Park you Series III & find out what the real cause of your wobble
is!  Your car did not come with a steering dampener and should not need one
to keep from wobbling .  You may have bent wheels, badly out of balance
tyres, bad tie rod ends, bad steering ball pins, lose front wheel bearings or
a combination of all the above.

Bad tie rods have been know to come appart.  It can leave you with no
steering or front wheels facing different directions.  I've seen it happen.
 You wouldn't want this to happen at speed on the highway.

I once had a serious wobble in the front of my 109.  When I checked it, I
discovered  I had broken a stub axle at the base of the flange.  The front
axle 'U' joint was too large to fall out  the flange.  It was the only think
keeping the wheel on the car.

Come on folks!!!!
 DON'T KLUDGE SAFETY REPAIRS

DON"T PUT OFF SAFETY REPAIRS AND STILL DRIVE THE CAR

AND DON'T PUT A BANDAID ON A SAFETY RELATED PROBLEM

FIX IT & FIX IT RIGHT IF YOU ARE GOING TO DRIVE IT

Kill yourself if you want to, but think of anyone else in the car or people
outside the car when it comes appart and you loose control!

Besides a crashed series III is a waste of a dwindling breed and a properly
fixed safe series III is a thing of joy.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

From: Simon Barclay <sbar@jna.com.au>
Subject: Series 1 stuff
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 08:36:00 EST

Can any one help??

I have stripped my Series one (80") to the chassis and am about to commence 
the rebuild - once it's been sand blasted and primed!  There are many things 
that need replacing (this is truly a total rebuild!!), but firstly I am 
trying to find propshafts (both front and rear need replacing).  They are 
both very warn and I guess well beyond repair.

Do the prop shafts from later models fit or would they all be to long?  Does 
anyone on the list in Oz. have suitable propshafts?

Regards

Simon Barclay
Sydney Australia

------------------------------

From: iharper@afm.org
Subject: side mirrors
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 96 17:03:12 EST

I need some help with Parts #'s for replacement mirrors. I recently 
snapped one of the old style side mirrors off my Series III and would like 
to replace it with a newer style that actually lets you see!!!  What is 
available?  Can I fit a 90/110 style mirror and arm (ALR4626 and MTC5083) 
on the old mountings, or do I have to buy a new hinge for the door 
(MXC8285,MXC8284) 

After making inquiries with Paddock, They told me that I would need 
MTC5217x(2) and the hinges (MRC 3037,38)  Could someone please tell me 
which parts numbers are correct?   

Thanks, Ian Harper, Stratford, Ontario
iharper@afm.org  

---
 This copy of Freddie 1.2.5 is being evaluated.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:27:20 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Extra heat for 109's

Andrew Howton (howtag@hg.uleth.ca) was threatening to put a kerosene 
"hotshot" or salamnder in his 109.  One of the local lads, Robert Davis
 (the guy who fitted the Mercruiser/Iron Duke) to his 109) has an elegant 
solution.  He took the lid off one of the rear storage boxes and bolted an 
old heater core and spare blower to it.  Some lengths of 5/8" hose plumbed 
into T's off the engine completed the installation.  A valve cuts off 
summertime coolant flow.  Voila!  Heat for the rear of a 109!  Cheers

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 96 15:45:56 EST
From: mcdan@Rt66.com (Daniel McDonough)
Subject: RE: Whats been bothering me

I understand how you feel, TeriAnn. But you need to look at it from my
perspective. I have always had the Land Rover bug, but it was in remission.
My relapse occurred the first day I saw a Defender sitting in front of the
local dealer. It took over a year for me to convince myself that I was willing
to spend that much on a new car. While I enjoy working on cars, It isn't my
primary hobby. Photography is. And I don't spend enough time on that. I can't
afford the time required to restore a Series Rover. My Defender is the
tool I use to go where I want to take pictures. It is also my daily driver.
 
Times have changed and now people like me can enjoy Roverdom. New members
will change the dynamics of a group and what I have learned after lurking here
for almost a year is that there are a lot of nice people out there, both Series and
"New" owners. I don't want to see the old guard leave in disgust because times
have changed. All we need here in North America is another Oil Shock and the fickle
american public will drop Rovers and SUV's of all types. LRNA would go away again 
and we will all be driving orphans. We must stick together. We have more
important things to worry about. (How ever, I do enjoy lively discussions such as
is a D-90 Soft top with Air Conditioning a plush-mobile? [Yes, and proud of it!])

We should worry about such things as will the new Defenders, if they come to be,
be as strong as the old ones, or will the bean counters win?

With all the road closures going on, will we have a place to drive our loved ones
in the next millenium (It is only 5 years away)? Or will it be like Japan where
we will go to Off-road (Dude) ranches to play in the mud?

BTW Where is the bottle opener on a D-90?

Daniel McDonough
mcdan@rt66.com

'95 D-90 Soft-top
(maybe '95 D-90 SW, just convinced SO!)

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 18:55:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Series Stuff: Brake Drums

>While trying to get my brakes to behave, I noticed that the factory spec for
>the
>maximum oversizing of the brake drums is 0.06" (0.03" per side). I couldn't
>believe that it was this small! I would think that would barely allow for
one
>drum resurfacing.

The standard words in the Series II service manual are: "Examine the brake
drum for scoring, ovality and skim if required".

Haynes says: "examine the friction surface on the interior of the drum.
Normally this should be completely smooth and bright.....Very light hairline
scores running around the surface are not serious but indicate the shoes may
be wearing out, or heavy grit and dirt have hot into the drum at some time.
If there are signs of deep scoring the drum needs reconditioning or renewal."

Brake drums do not have to be turned just because the linings are replaced!
This is SOP for most (all?) U.S. mechanics for unknown reasons, but factory
manuals do not call for it. Examine you drums, check the diameter with a good
caliber if available, and unless there is a real problem, clean and reuse.

The definition of light vs. heavy scoring is open to interpretation. I seem
to recall a GM manual which called for turning the drums if the scores were
more than 0.030in deep but I may be mistaken.

Now, does this start a long and heated thread?

David Cockey 

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:03:34 -0500
Subject: GO

GO   STEELERS  GO !!!

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:33:12 -0500
Subject:  Series Door Seals 

does anyone have an alternative to spending $ 250 to replace all the door
seals on a lla?? (Thats what Rovers North wants)  I know from past experience
that the genuine seals fit very well and most important the mounting holes
line up perfectly.  I used an aftermarket seal to replace the rear top door
seal on my S lll and it was not worth the  aggrivation to re-drill the holes
and trim the seal so it would fit properly..any suggestions?? I know you
could use just a rubber strip without the metal inside, but I have no
experience with Them. I tend to think in the long run I would be better off
with the rubber/metal ones..any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
                                                          Rgds,     Steve
 Bradke  WA2GMC

                                                                           72
S lll 88

                                                                           68
S lla 88 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:39:35 -0500
From: Michael Kirk <michaelk@infi.net>
Subject: Disco/Defender/RR ? check engine light

FYI,  Here is some history on my 92 Range Rover with a history of 
Check engine light display's.

Nothing happened until about 10,000 miles then it seems like it would 
come on then go off.  I bought a manual and the next time it lite up 
the code was 17.  Which meant throttle Potentiometer failure/out of 
position.  

[There  is a proceedure to reset the ECU in the manual for a RR.  it 
involves finding the 5 pin plug under the passenger seat with a 
terminator plug on it (couple of looping wires in it).  With the 
ignition on, but engine not running, disconnect the terminator for 
approx 5-10 sec and reconnect.  The turn the key to the off position 
and wait for the main breaker to drop.  Then start the engine and the 
check engine light should not come on.  Of course the other way is to 
disconnect the battery which resets the ecu ... Like a cold start vs a 
warm start on a computer]

I replaced the Throt Pot and it still continued giving error code 17 
and 48 (throttle Pot and idle speed low).  I reset the engine idle 
speed, which the dealer said was a source of a false check engine 
light (boy was it way out of spec)....finally a dealer in Virginia 
replaced the EPROM in the ECU saying it was a new version designed to 
fix false check engine lights, nothing was wrong with my engine. Since 
then I've had no check engine lights.

As the dealer mechanic explained:  sometime the idle speed drops so 
low that the check engine light comes on for either one ( 17 or 48).  
I any case it worth asking a pointed question to the service 
department to check the ecu EPROM and the engine idle speed.

Something to think about,

Michael

92 RR (all Clear Check Engine Light....for now  !!)

------------------------------

From: WAHORN@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:02:16 -0500
Subject: positive earth

Does anyone on the lro list have nice clear directions on how to convert from
positive 
earth to negative earth? 

                                   thanks Ashley Horn

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:18:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Krazy Kev gets spamed!

In a message dated 96-01-27 23:09:47 EST, you write:
>I just sent our friendly spamer 50 copies of his magazine add.  If you want
>to play to, copy the spam, rename the subject and send a jillion copies to:
>     krazykev@kjl.com
>TeriAnn

But if you do that, then they have your email address right?  Then they can
send the adv. to you personally instead of just the list?  Seems like they
could really load up a single user if they wanted.  Any software out there
like CallerID that won't receive mail from specific users?  Seems appropriate
here, just send it right back at 'em. 

John.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 12:27:12 EST
From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff)
Subject: Re:  Ford Mavricks

In Australia at least, a Ford Maverick is a re-badged Nissan Patrol.
The SWB and LWB versions are similar in size to LR 90 and 110.
The suspension is beam axles with coil springs (the first from a Japanese
maker) which looks to be heavily borrowed from RR and 110.

When first released on the Oz market Patrols/Mavericks topped the sales
for sation wagon type 4WD until Toyota released its coil sprung Landcruiser
several years later (also with LR/RR cloned suspension). All these pretend
110's use steel panels, which made the choice of an aluminium 110 easy for
me as I live within sight of the ocean.

James Carley
'85 110
Sydney Australia

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:35:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Disco/Defender check engine lights ...and OBD (long...)

In a message dated 96-01-27 23:32:28 EST, you write:

Starting with 1996 model year autos, the computer and sensors that cause the
check engine light to come on should be being on a LOT more often.   It is
called something like "ORD II", I can not remember exactly now.  But what it
is is the second stage of onboard diagnostic of emission related areas and
instead of lighting up when a reading is out of spec, you will now be warned
when a reading is starting to head toward being out of spec.

So expect to see check engine lights on more.  Dealers and the manufacturers
are concerned with how customers will react to check engine lights lighting
up a LOT more.
==========================REPLY:=============================================

This new self diagnostic  system, called On Board Diagnostics (OBD)  is not
designed to turn on a light when  the emission control systems are "heading
toward being out of spec," but rather to light the MIL (malfunction indicator
lamp) when a component is either not functioning, or malfunctioning to the
point that exhaust emissions have risen to a set value, e.g. X.XX grams/mile
Hydrocarbon.  The X.XX value is specific to the engine family, and is based
on the emissions the engine was certified to.  That is how the Federal (49
state) system will work.  The California system is, you guessed it,
different.  And the light comes on when the failure causes an emissions
increase of 1.5 times the applicable standard.  The California system is also
checks more components and runs more self-tests than the Fed system, but it
is likely that the California systems will put on the Fed cars, too, since
the extensive calibration phase has been mostly completed by OEMs at this
point, and they have the Cal systems done.

I know the following  post is really long, sorry about that.  Though not
everyone agrees with the reasoning behind OBDII, other people were glad I
posted some info on another list, 
so I'll take the risk and post it again, here.   The post grew out of
conversations I was having with a fellow listmember in California about
diesels, disappearing Defenders, and emissions, and I assembled it into one
note:  

. . . OBD means On Board Diagnostics.  This is additional computer software
and
sensors that can self monitor any emissions related components on the car or
engine, e.g., catlysts, egr vavle, oxygen sensor.  OBDI was the first
generation, and was limited in scope.  OBDII is the second and is much more
comprehensive.  OBDII systems run a multitude of diagnostic checks on all
components that can affect emissions.  And when they find an irregularity,or
a malfunctioning part, they store a fault code which can be read later via
diagnostic port on car's ECU.  If the malfunction persists for over a set
number of driving cycles, then the system will illuminate a MIL (malfunction
indicator
light), or dash light.    The OBDII systems can detect misfire of plugs, bad
plug wires, worn
out O2 sensor, a slow idle valve , even can tell when you left your gas cap
off the car (this test is really looking for leaks in the evaporative
emissions system like the charcoal cannister, or vent lines from/to the
tank.)/.  

OBDII is real helpful for hte mechanic becasue he can download the problem,
no more hunting for that intermittent miss that only occurrs on Sunday
morning at 932 am.  The ECU says "plug 3 misfired, and the mph was 89 mph, at
9:32am, the oxygen sensor had been out of range, and the FI errouneously
richened the mixture."  That kind of thing.  With cars being so complex it
can really be a boon to be able to read teh problem instead of search through
the morasse of systems there.  

On the other hand, OBDII is bad because quickly gone are the days when you
can change anything anymore with out affecting the emission control
system-even tyres might screw things up.  E.g., since speed is such a
critical measurment for many of the self-diagnostic tests (the catalyst
monitoring test might only run between 45 -55 mph for exhaust makeup
stability near stoichiometric mix )  changing the tire diamter with some
fancy go-fast ones, may upset the balance of all the factors and casue faulty
MILs , something the OEMs really complained aobut to us.  They didn't want
customers having to bring their cars in and have the dealer say "oh, nothing
was wrong, sorry." 

At the same time,  CARB didn't want false MILs EITHER, since
CARB is as much at the expense of public sentiment too.  CARB is very
concerned about not re-doing teh early 70s debacle with the NOx control
device where people got soured on CARB for making them do things to the cars
like unplug the vac advance, and retard timing, which caused overheating very
easily.  

Regarding Land Rover, they were  putting all their effort into the Disco,
they layed
off the modifications for the DEfenders.  That is partly why there won't be a
96 Defender, they couldn't make an OBDII system in time, and they claimed
enough differences between Disco and Defender that one single system wouldn't
suffice.  I know that many people simply say "just put a Disco ECU in it,
they are the same engine..." but all I know is what I heard from the LR
engineers:  enough of a difference to not use the same systems.  To be fair,
I understand that the airbags killed teh Defender in equal
part.  But again, for LR it was a matter of allocation of resources, and with
the hot Disco, obviously that is where they put their effort.  They claimed a
complete dash re-do would be necessary for airbags, and couldn't do it in
time.  So, the next Defender you see may actually have a changed
interior...exciting huh!

  I bet LR changes some of their policy
towards aftermarket offroad goodies like tires/rims and certainly gears,
since all that could materially affect the OBD system.  From a user
perspective, I am glad I have a pre-OBDII car. I wont have to worry about
altering things and affecting the system.   But from a public point of
view, OBDII, if it works as it is designed, is good because it will keep
those cars at the emissions levels they were designed for.  

And there is the whole reason for OBDII. . . to keep the cars at the
emissions levels they were designed for.  Teh cars of the 80's are a good
example of the opposite, many of those cars, when new, were pretty clean
rigs.  But they deteriorated so rapidly and became equal if not more dirty
than many of the early cars with much less pollution control equipment.  So
here you have these expensive systems costing consumers money that aren't
even giving the public the benefit teh public payed for (thru CARB.)  And the
systems are so complex, that many smog mechanics couldn't bring 'em back into
spec.  It was a nightmare.  

With OBDII, it is hoped that when, for instance, the O2 sensor fails, the MIL
comes on and the tech  reads the code, then replaces the part.  Simple.  When
the egr valve gets dirty and its response is lagging, the ECU turns on the
MIL and again, the mechanic reads teh code and replaces the part.  The car's
emissions control components are always in working order, hence, the car will
be maintained at its designed emissions level.  Granted , factored in are
normal wear and tear and emissions degradation levels.  So, after 50 K miles
for example, the emissions standards are more lax.  But the car is still at
that level.  

There was even talk that OBDII cars might be smog check exempt, though I
don't know where that went.  At least it would have to be verified, every 2
years, that your MIL light is off.  

You'll love this:  the next generation?  OBDIII?  well, yes, it is also being
talked about.  Satellite monitoring.  All you need to do is set up a dialog
between the ECU and a main computer and you could monitor the emission
control lsystem from Sacramento.  Smog check?  Unneeded, just send the radio
signal and ask the car ECU if the MIL is on, and are things going OK, car's
ECU says "well, gotta a bad oxy sensor but this moron keeps driving, how
'bout you send him a little note asking him to replace it?"  :>)  Next day, a
note is printed up and mailed the the owner.  

Boy you should hear the "anti-government" types talk about this one.
Invasion of privacy!  With such a sytem the state might be able to tell when
and wehre you are at all times (GPS), and be able to simply, and
automatically, send you speeding tickets! Ha.  ". . . at 3:23 pm, you were
travelling 71 mph, along route 15 Southbound near Freemont exit...here is a
fine for $90."  

So. Boy does this emission control stuff dive deep into our lives.  It
really is fascinating to see the car continue to be such a huge part of our
daily lives, our political lives, and our economic lives, though not always
in convenient, friendly ways.  

John. WiscoRover
94 D90, Madison 
(ex-CARB, Engineering Testing/Low Emission Vehicle Testing)

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 28 Jan 96 21:23:25 EST
Subject: Re: Series Brake Drums: Restatement

WHHHOOOOOOAAAAAA,

    My first message seems to have been misunderstood. I am not trying to retain
my rear drums and pads that are hopelessly gone. The SerIII is grounded until I
can get the new drums and pads on. I have no desire to run the thing without
brakes. What I was wanting to know is...At what point do you toss a set of
drums? The ones I have are long past this point whatever it is, but do I toss
them if they measure 10.061"? I would not think it would take very long to reach
this point. In terms of resurfacing, I probably will NEVER resurface ANY of my
drums. I have had too many come back out of round, and it is not worth it. Any
severe scoring would probably put them out of spec anyway (0.03" is not very
deep).
I am not trying to risk my safety, or anyone elses. I just thought that as thick
as the drums are, that it might be possible to wear the drums past +.060" at
least a little. 

Is that better?
  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise"
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 28-Jan-1996

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:40:23 +0930
From: philr@ozemail.com.au (Phil Rofe)
Subject: series III rims and guards (new post)

Some assistance is requesuetd from the knowledgeable.....

In restoring a series !!! 88 and having finally gotten it 'on the road' I
have noticed a wheel wobble which I have traced to two buckled rims.  This
means. of course, more moneyneeds to be spen...but I'm getting used to
this.

The question:  Do srs III 88s have narrower rims than the 109 versions ie
do I just search for two LR rims or do I need to hang out for 88 rims?  Any
experience with this in  LR cyberspace?

Phil
Darwin, NT
Australia

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:35:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Series Brake Drums: Restatement

Yes, That's better..............you know how we worry.......

                                                                        Rgds,
 Steve     

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 28 Jan 96 23:24:19 EST
Subject: Re: Series Brake Drums: Restatement

>> Ah, ya wimp! Brakes Smakes! Thats what 1st low is for :) <<

It's two hard trying to get in low range at 55Mph. 

I've just been driving without the floorboards in and using my feet. If I have a
passanger with me, the breaking even appears close to normal<g>

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise"
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 28-Jan-1996

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:45:55 +0800 (WST)
From: TONY YATES <tonyy@BoM.GOV.AU>
Subject: Bye for now.

Well folks,

this will make me very unpopular but anyway...

There is a lovely place in Western Australia called Coral Bay.  A very 
apt name, it is a small bay near the northwest corner south of Exmouth on 
the Ningaloo Reef.  When I first visited the place some 14 years ago the 
only facilities were two small caravan parks and a pub.  Access at that 
time was terrible. Probably the worst 'made' road on earth.  Hence it was 
a quiet, sleepy place, miles of pristine white beaches, world class 
diving etc etc etc.  Since then the road has been sealed, the number of 
visitors increased, the fish disappearing, the coral dying....  The next 
step is a planned multi million $ resort with marina, multi storey 
hotels, golf course (*&%#!)

My point?  With easy access (such as internet), anything 'good' that is 
gradually discovered by more and more people, becomes gradually 
degraded.  I believe that this has happened to a certain extent with this 
list.  The trouble is, everyone has equal right of access, I have no 
problem with that, it's simply a matter of overpopulation.  Take the two 
list controversy.  I think the originator had a good point. I am leaving 
this list because my sysadmin has started complaining.  My roster entails 
3 day breaks so my mailbox rapidly clogs up.  Once everyone on the list 
has thrown in their 0.02c about a controversial subject things get out of 
hand. (Especially if someone takes it the wrong way and the insults start 
flying.)

Anyway I have a request.  If anyone has a post that they think will be of 
interest to Aussie LROs then please cross post to the Oz list.  That 
would include topics such as the Series I Camel (good luck guys - not 
that you'll need it).  There are quite a few people on the Oz list that 
aren't on the main list.

Thanks.  It's been fun.

Tony.
85 110 V8.

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: series III rims and guards
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:27:49 +1030 (CST)

Phil Rofe asks:
> The question:  Do srs III 88s have narrower rims than the 109 versions ie
> do I just search for two LR rims or do I need to hang out for 88 rims?  Any
> experience with this in  LR cyberspace?

Phil, the standard sIII" 88 rim here is 5" wide but...  Many if not just
about all I've seen here in OZ have an optional 5.5 x 16 rim to allow fitment
of 7.50 tyres.   The "correct" 5.5"  rim for an 88" has the same offset as a
pre '68 109  (1 13/16)  sorry I cant recall the PN but can find out if
required.  I dont see any reason why you couldnt use any series  rim or
even 110 rims. (their offset is 33mm or (1 5/16), the same as post '68 109s).
Check out the dump shop up there, a couple of years back they had a pile
(literally) of LR rims (including a handful of genuine ridgy didge split
rims)  Other wise 4x4 wreckers out at Palmerston had a couple of LRs at one
stage.   Oh, try "11 mile wreckers" first they had heaps of derelict LRs down
the back corner (behind the shed, near the boat builders fence), best of luck
in that grass this time of year though... :-)  

cheers    

-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:22:14 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: positive earth

Ashley Horn asks...

>Does anyone on the lro list have nice clear directions on how to convert from
>positive earth to negative earth? 
-

I guess I could take a stab at it...

1. Disconnect the battery! 

2. If you have an ammeter, you will need to reverse the wires connected to
it. (You don't really have to, except that it will read backwards.)

3. While you have the dash panel out, check the wiring on the 12V accessory
plug. To tell you the truth, I'm not sure how the positive earth plug is
wired as the plug on my IIa was disconnected. You may need to reverse the
wires to the plug. Just make sure all the little insulator parts are intact
and the black plug actually makes a connection to ground (earth) while the
red one does not. If you are not sure, disconnect the wires and tape them up
(seperately) for now. You can always sort that out later.

4. You will need to polarize the dynamo (generator) for negative earth.
Basically, all you do is "motor" it for a second or two. You can do this
with the dynamo in the vehicle. 
     a. Disconnect both wires from the dynamo.
     b. connect the vehicle earth lead to the negative (-) battery terminal.
     c. Using a long piece of wire, connect one end to the positive (+) battery
        terminal. Carefully touch the other end of the wire to the larger
terminal
        on the dynamo for a second or two.
     d. disconnect the long wire from the battery.
     e. re-connect the two wires to the dynamo.

5. Connect the main power wire to the positive battery terminal. Since you
are connecting the battery wires to the opposite terminals, the wires may
not fit correctly. You may need to get a new earth lead. Also, while you are
at it, make sure the battery terminals are clean and the clamps on both
battery wires are in good shape.

6. You will not have to worry about the starter, wiper motors, fuel tank
senders/guages, heaters or any of the lights. None of those componants are
polarity sensitive. If by some chance of fate you have a positive-earth
radio installed, take it out, send it to Dixon Kenner and get yourself a
real radio!!  :-)

Hope this helps. It is a simple procedure to do if you are careful. I would
use an ohmmeter and check the wiring of the accessory plug before
re-connecting the battery. The red terminal needs to be a direct
(electrically) connection to the battery + wire and the black terminal
should connect to earth. Check this with everything turned off.

If anyone else has any comments to all of this, please fee free to add them.

Cheers
Mike Loiodice
166 W. Fulton St.                  1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green     
Gloversville                       1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo
NY  12078  (USA)        7          1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue
                     #:-}>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:22:15 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: series III rims and guards (new post)

Phil asks....

>The question:  Do srs III 88s have narrower rims than the 109 versions ie
>do I just search for two LR rims or do I need to hang out for 88 rims?  Any
>experience with this in  LR cyberspace?
-

I think they are narrower and have a slightly differant offset than the 109
rims. At least, I know the 16" rims on my SerIII were that way. I actually
broke a wheel and got a 16" 109 wheel for a spare (which is how I found out
the differance. You could put 109 rims on all four wheels as they will fit
OK or if money is a problem just use the 109 rims on the back wheels for now.

Cheers

Mike Loiodice
166 W. Fulton St.                  1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green     
Gloversville                       1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo
NY  12078  (USA)        7          1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue
                     #:-}>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:22:04 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Comments On My Rover For Sale WWW Page?

I've put up a Web page with pictures and information about my 
Series IIA Rover for sale.  I'd appreciate any comments and
constructive criticism before I put this first effort on Usenet.  
Responses can be on-list or off-list, depending on one's feelings 
about bandwidth :-)  

The page is at
http://home.earthlink.net/~johnliu/forsale.htm

Thanks!

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:42:26 -0800
Subject: Re: Series Door Seals 

Steve,

I purchased a genuine LR set for my 109 to put on when she gets painted.  I
purchased them in the UK and paid a lot less than Rover North prices.

However, a lot of people I know have gone with aftermarket glue on
weatherstripping and have been happy.  They are cheeper, easier to install
and some people have told  me they can hold up longer and seal better (This
is heresay, I have no experience with them). Call Rover's North and Pritish
Pacific & ask them what they have in glue on alternatives & ask about what
feedback they have received from their customers.  Or  order genuine from the
UK.

Good luck

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:22:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: GO

On Sun, 28 Jan 1996 ASFCO@aol.com wrote:

> GO   STEELERS  GO !!!

This is the kind of self-inflicted spam that is driving dedicated LROs off 
the list.  It is unnecessary and unwanted. Let's not have anymore of it.

Walt Swain
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover              * 
              * Davis, California       | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

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