Land Rover Owner Message Digest Contents

[ First Message Last | Table of Contents | <- Digest -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]

The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Send Submissions Land-Rover-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net

From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 02:50:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Two Lists

Wellllll,  since someone else has again opened the Pandoras Box of list
splitting,  here's my $00.02 (US) worth:

On occasions I've really had to restrain myself from unsubscribing to the
list......only because some days it's just Sooooo long.   If I've been away
for a day or two or just been lazy and haven't dumped the mail box I'm just
overwhelmed with all the mail.   I am on the 'real time' list, thus it is
easier to pick and choose what to read judged purely on the subject line.
   I have both Series Rovers and a Range Rover, and, though I have nothing at
all against Discos or Defenders, I don't own one and don't foresee owning one
in the very near future.    I use the list purely for the Series technical
information.    The Range Rover never (well, almost never)  gives any trouble
and I usually just delete any mail with subject headings including RR, Disco,
D-90, etc......without even opening them.    I do wonder from time to time
what slices of information I may be missing by not reading them.   If put up
for an official vote,  I would have to cast mine in favor of two lists,  one
for the Series vehicles,  and one for all post Series vehicles.
Cordially:
Rick Crider  KD4FXA
Monroe  NC
66  Slla  109"            .........and for sale.........
73  Slll    88"            .......couldn't be bought....
88  Range  Rover     .........the daily mule........

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 96 04:24:35 EST
From: Lars Rosenmeier <100670.3705@compuserve.com>
Subject:  

subscribe lro-digest

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:01:53 GMT
From: newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT)
Subject: Re: break pads

>While those on the right side are used up, those on the left side are still =
>ok.

Assuming all the pads were fitted at the same time, the uneven wear could
indicate a problem with one set of calipers. You should investigate this and
correct it. Then replace the pads on both sides together. This way you will
be assured of correct braking performance. In a vehicle of this size and
weight it is irresponsible to be trying to save a few centimes.
If the calipers are OK, and you only replace the pads on one side, then you
will have to replace the other side in a few months (when the others will
still look OK).

Whatever next? Replacing pads one at a time?

David Olley
............................................................................
.........
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
............................................................................
.........

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 16:27:29 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Stuck in Lake Tahoe -Reply

I guess you were going quicker than the conditions allowed. Obviously, in snow 
or ice you should assess the conditions before pushing it. Just because we 
have superior 4X4's, doesn't mean we can just drive through anything. 

Take care

Mark

 

----------
From:  William Owen
Sent:  Tuesday, January 23, 1996 10:01 AM
Subject:  Stuck in Lake Tahoe -Reply

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

The D90 has a locking center diff but open front and rear diffs.  With an
open center diff, one tire without traction would get you stuck.  With
center diff locked, equal power goes to front and rear axles and to get
stuck you must loose traction on one front and one rear tire.  That is, with
an open diff on a front or rear axle, if one wheel on the axle looses
traction, then it spins and the other wheel on that axle cannot propel the
vehicle.  
Some vehicles have limited slip (option on jeeps) or locking front and/or
rear diffs (option on Land Cruiser, Tahoe?) which help prevent this
problem.  Some people put aftermarket lockers on their axle diffs(ARB Air
Lockers are the best) to prevent this problem.  RR's have traction control
which applies the brake to teh spinning wheel and thus get power to the
other wheel.  The best solution is to make sure at you don't get into such
a situation.
Glad all turned out well.  William

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 05:38:05 EST
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Towing limits

Hi all, I thought the towing limits quoted by manufacturer had
nothing to do with safety, all about pulling power.
  
The limit is the max weight that the vehicle can pull away with on
a 1 in 4 slope.
  
The loading of the trailer and the construction of the trailer
affects the safety as much as the weight.
  
Local legal limits are often lower than max manufacturers limits.
  
In the UK a 2 wd cannot tow more than a proportion of the weight
of the towing vehicle (80% I think).  4x4s have a different (unknown
to me) limit.
  
Cheers, Steve
  
Steve Reddock                         Product Evaluation, 26/12
Xyratex                  Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450  Int.721-4450
REDDOCK at HVTVM         Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:23:56 +1100 (EST)
From: Dean Cording <dean@holly.aspect.com.au>
Subject: Re: D90 Towing

On Wed, 24 Jan 1996 azw@aber.ac.uk wrote:

> Yuppies never tow anything heavy with Discos or Sloane Wange Wovas anyway.

I saw a classic today - a Disco towing a horse float with BMW hub caps!

Dean
=============================================================================
Dean Cording                                   ASPECT Computing P/L
                                               86 Northbourne Ave
Dean.Cording@aspect.com.au  (Work)             Canberra, ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA
Dean@holly.aspect.com.au    (Private)          ACN. 005 083 670

------------------------------

From: jve@phaseone.dk
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 12:17:49 
Subject: Series engine numbers

Hi all.

When I bought my series III 109 just over a year ago, the engine needed a little 
care and attention. When I worked with it, I checked the engine number and 
expected to find a number beginning with 901... indicating a 2.25 series III 
petrol engine as far as I know. To my surprise I found the number beginning with 
368...
I don't care much, since spare parts for a series III fit all right, but I am 
kind of curious as to the kind of engine that hauls me around.
So, with an all-knowing world wide panel out there, I now ask the question:

What kind of LR series engine number starts with 368. Is it a series II engine 
or what?

And hey, hey, HEY ... let's be careful out there !

Jens Vesterdahl
1972 109 sIII STW
Copenhagen, Denmark 

------------------------------

From: BDaviscar@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 07:22:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Two Lists

In a message dated 96-01-24 19:05:09 EST, you write:

>t
>	I guess I was too restrained in my first comment on two lists.  The
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>you're not a real Land Rover Owner.
>	How's that. `:)

You Tell 'em John. You show these "Plushmoblies".

(ha,ha)

Bruce   Chicago
67 SIIA  88  Patches

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 25 Jan 96  7:21:26 EST
Subject: Series IIa Propshaft Question

Now I don't want any of you Discovery owners peeking in here......8*)

The front propshaft on old Churchill is decidedly unhappy. I can tell because 
of the clunking noises and vibration I get when I make the mistake of running 
with the front hubs locked...

The question is this: I have 2 propshafts from an old Series IIa military (NOT 
lightweight) that was scrapped. Unfortunately, it was an 88.

If both had 2.25L engines, would the 88 front propshaft be compatible with my 
109? I'd rather rebuild a spare and put it in then deal with the 
yank-rebuild-reinstall shtick.

Expiring minds want to know.....

   AJR/Churchill

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 25 Jan 96  7:47:15 EST
Subject: Series Rover Tutorial: Alternate Alternators - or, GMing your

I've seen many a post asking the question "How do you get rid of this blasted 
Lucas generator?", so I've decided to pull together the random bits of 
information I have on the subject into a coherent format, presented here for 
your pleasure. Thanks to Bill Grouell for walking me through this on my own car 
when I did it, and helping me understand it so I can share it with you all.

DISCLAIMER: IF you're uncomfortable with electrical work or mechanical fitting, 
DON'T DO THIS WITHOUT HELP! I'm not responsible if you get burned, zapped, 
bitten or otherwise damaged by your car. Now that that's over..... (and my 
lawyer has stopped shaking in his wingtips)....

The subject at hand is going to be switching your car from a Lucas dynamo to a 
GM internally-regulated alternator. These are inexpensive, one-package solution 
to the low output current problem of a 20-amp dynamo. This is done by removing 
the dynamo and its associated control box, jumpering the wires which were once 
connected at the junction box to allow 12 volts to get where it needs to, 
installing new wires to connect the GM alternator into the car's electrical 
system, modifying the mountings to accept the alternator, and mounting and 
connecting the new alternator into the system.

Note 1: This assumes that your car is already a negative-ground vehicle. if it 
isn't, you're going to need to worry about a lot more than this when rewiring, 
like swapping the battery around and dealing with the fuel gage and other 
things. Do the positive-to-negative conversion first, then do the alternator 
swap. One thing at a time makes things much easier - it's easier to figure out 
where you blew it.

NOTE 2: If you don't have a schematic of your car, DON'T TRY THIS. Too many 
Rovers have lost wiring harnesses to inexpert tinkering with no documentation, 
and I'd hate to see your car become another casualty. Schematics are cheap 
insurance - they can save you many hundreds of dollars of damage.

NOTE3: If you have schematics for your Rover (and you really should if you're 
going to do electrical work of any kind) MARK A PHOTOCOPY OF  THE SCHEMATICS 
with the changes you make! This will make your life easier the next time Joe 
Lucas' ghost comes to visit your car. 

1. Obtaining the needed bits, or hunting the wild current...

The only item you may have trouble running across for this installation is a 
Rover alternator bracket. If your car has such an item already mounted on it, 
you're all set. Else, you can modify the original mounts, or get a bracket from 
your favorite used-parts dealer or a derelict Rover. I was changing engines at 
the same time I did this, so my new engine already had the bracket. Personally, 
I recommend changing the bracket.

GM 1-wire alternators are easy to come by in the US and Canada. The specific 
one that fits a Land-Rover well is the one specified for a 1970 Chevrolet Nova, 
as it has the plug-in for current sense on the right side (when facing the 
pulley end), and is available with a double pulley.  Get one with the double 
pulley, as it will save a lot of tedious metalwork constructing extension 
spacers for the Lucas alternator mount we will install. Typical price I ran 
across for these was about $60 American for a remanufactured unit with a 
lifetime guarantee.

At the same time as you purchase your alternator, buy the plug that goes into 
the two-prong socket on the side. This will be used to make connections to the 
sense and alternator warning light leads. With this, you will also need about 8 
feet of wire in 3 colors, red 10-gauge for the alternator output, red 16-gauge 
for the sense wire, and white 16-gauge for the alternator warning light. These 
are the standard colors for a GM installation, and I chose to stay with them.

You'll also need some lugs and slide-on connectors for the wiring ends, some 
wire ties, some shrink tubing of the proper sizes to cover soldered 
connections, and a few #8 brass nuts and bolts for connecting lug together 
where the old generator box is removed.

2. Site prep, or clearing the mounts for the new parts.

FIRST, DISCONNECT AND REMOVE THE BATTERY FROM THE CAR! THis can save major 
embarassment, not to mention smoke shows.... We.ll put it back in later, when 
we're ready to go. 

This part is actually easy. What we're doing here is removing all of the old 
bits to make room for the new ones. Simply dismount and remove the dynamo from 
its brackets, and then remove the dynamo brackets themselves, leaving the area 
clear. What we'll end up doing is attaching a Land-Rover alternator bracket to 
the mounting points in this location, so all of the old bracketing has got to 
go.

The control box for the dynamo's got to go, too, but don't remove it now. This 
should be done when the alternator wiring is installed, so that the proper 
connections can be made to the wires removed from the control box.

3: Building the new alternator harness

We need to build a small wiring harness with 3 wires:

10-gauge red wire for the current output
16-gauge red wire for the sense input
16-gauge white wire for the warning light

To do this, take your alternator and set it on a work surface. If you're doing 
this on the kitchen table, cover it with something so the SO doesn't kill you. 
Looking at the alternator from the rear, you'll see a stud on the back with a 
nut on it, and a socket on the left side with two prongs. These are where the 
wires need to get connected.

Take the plug you purchased when you bought your alternator, and solder the 
ends of the red and white 16-ga. wires to it. The wires on the plug will be of 
the same colors, so match them up. Insulate the soldered connections with 
shrink tubing. Take the 10-ga. red wire, and attach a ring lug to it, soldering 
the connection and insulating the bottom of the lug with shrink tubing. This is 
going to be the current output lead.

NOTE: Don't buy el-cheapo ring lugs for this conection. The'll fatigue and 
break. Go to an electrical-supply house and get a heavy copper lug, or make one 
from flattened copper tubing of the proper diameter to take the wire end. 
You'll thank me on this one.

Put the ring lug onto the stud on the back of the alternator and put the nut on 
over it, just to locate its placement. Insert the plug into the socket on the 
side of the alternator. Now. bring the wires together leaving plenty of slack 
and harness them together with the wire ties about every 6 inches or so. 
stopping about 6 feet up. Leave the last 2 feet unharnessed, as these wires 
need to go to different places.

4. Wiring in the new harness

Remove the harness from the alternator, and starting at the alternator 
position, route the wiring across the front of the engine and down the 
distributor side of the block and up the firewall to the neighborhood of the 
fusebox. Use wire ties to secure the harness as needed, being careful to avoid 
sharp bends or contact with metal edges.

Now, trim the small red wire to reach the fusebox with slack to spare and 
solder/crimp on a quick-connect lug to fit the fusebox. On a Series IIa, attach 
the lead to the bottom fuse (unswitched power). This will allow the alternator 
to sense voltage drop in the system and correct its output as needed. 

The other two leads need to go through the grommet the harness goes through 
into the dashboard. Drop the dashboard and locate the wires connected to the 
ammeter and the dynamo warning light. The output of the dynamo control box ran 
directly to one side of the ammeter, in my schematics typically on a 
brown-and-white wire. By following the schematics, you can tell which one for 
sure on your car. Unplug that wire and insulate  AND MARK it, then strip the 
alternator output lead, put a large slide-on wire connector on it and connect 
it where the dynamo output lead was removed.

The dynamo warning light has 2 wires running to it. One is grounded along with 
all the other warning lights (typically a white wire), and the other ran to the 
dynamo control box (usually yellow). Disconnect the wire going to the dynamo 
control box, unsolder the bullet connector on the end, insulate AND MARK the 
old wire, trim the white wire going to the alternator and solder the bullet 
connector to it. Plug this new warning lead into the connector on the warning 
lamp. 

Use wire ties to secure the wiring in place. Keep it neat, and future owners of 
your vehicle will thank you for it. We're not trying to create a SPOT here - 
use common sense and trim things up properly both under the bonnet and in the 
dash.

NOTE:

The ammeter on your panel is only going to read to 30 amps. With the new 
alternator in place, it will ofttimes be pinned at the top of its range. If 
this disturbs you, I recommend jumpering the ammeter. It's not really suited to 
the new charging system anyway, and there is a not-so-small risk that the 
ammeter can be damaged by this behavior.

That said, I've disconnected mine - pinned gauges make engineers nervous.

5. Installing the new alternator on the engine

This is a multi-step process. First, we have to make the alternator and bracket 
fit together, then we need to mount the bracket, then the alternator, and belt 
the beast to the pulleys.

The Lucas alternator bracket as used on later Series IIa and III bolts on in 
place of the old dynamo bracketing. Before this, though, we need to drill out 
the holes that the alternator mounting bolt goes through, as it's only 5/16" in 
diameter and the GM alternator needs to have a 3/8" bolt to fit properly. An 
electric drill and a bit of care can accomplish this handily.

Now, mount the bracket to the engine. You will see, on the side of the engine 
where the dynamo was, two tapped holes side-by-side and a through-bolt hole 
below the first two. This is where the bracket goes on. Bolt on the bracket, 
with 2 5/16" washers under each mounting pad. We want to move the bracket 
forward a bit so the alternator lines up properly with the engine pulleys.

Now, I'm going to give you a choice.

The alternator can be bolted on as-is, using a longer belt. Personally, I 
didn't do this, as I found that it gets in the way, sticking out too far toward 
the wing.

What I did was to notch the web of the bottom bolt hole (the long one). The way 
it is made, there is a fillet of metal on both sides of this long bolt hole for 
support. I trimmed away the one that would be toward the engine, to give 
clearance for the alternator bracket. If you do this, you can use a standard 
belt, and the installation just looks cleaner. 

Your choice.

In any case, use a 3/8" bolt with lock washer to mount the alternator to the 
bracket. Place 2 3/8" washers behind the alternator at the back of the mounting 
to soak up the extra space between the support arms and the alternator lower 
mount.

The upper support which once tensioned the dynamo needs to be moved as well, 
due to the larger diameter of the alternator. The best place I found for it was 
on the bottom-right water inlet bolt (of the three bolts in a triangle pattern 
on the front cover). Remove the bolt and put the hole in the bracket over it, 
with a spacer under it to get the bracket up out of the cover recess. Don't 
tighten the bolt until you engage and tighten the belt, as the bracket will 
shift up and down depending on where the alternator attaches to it.

6. Disconnecting and jumpering the old dynamo control box:

There are connections on the old control box that need to be jumpered, else the 
current's not going to go where you want. There are two different control boxes 
used on early Series vehicles, a 3-wire and a 5-wire, and I'll detail the 
changes needed for both here.

What you need to do here is leave the original wiring intact, and reroute the 
+12 volts around the connections once made by the control box. Typically, the 
only one you need to worry about is the connection between the fusebox and the 
ignition switch, and the wiring to + 12 for the accessory lead plugs.

On the 3-wire box (typically early + ground Diesel installations)

No modifications needed. Disconnect and insulate the terminals and wire-tie 
them to the harness neatly.

5-wire dynamo control box in a 2.25L Petrol negative earth installation, as 
well as 2.25 and 2.6 L IIB Forward Control:

Remove the two leads from lug A1 and tie together, then insulate. Remove and 
tie together the two leads from A and insulate. The F, D, and E leads can be 
insulated and tied down, as they are disconnected.

5-wire dynamo control box in a 6-cyl Petrol negative earth installation, as 
well as later negative-earth Diesel:

The two brown wires on the B terminals need to be tied together and insulated. 
The F, W/L, D and E can be insulated and tied down separately as they are 
disconnected.

NOTE: Make sure you verify this to be correct on your car. Ofttimes, wiring got 
shuffled about on these cars with little care for the schematics. Please be 
careful, and make sure you don't get victimized by some previous owner.

6A. What do I do with the old control box?

In writing this document one of my reader/editors pointed out that many of 
these old bits are expensive to come by.At his behest (Hello, Dixon!) I am 
adding the part numbers and prices at the time of publication (1996).

Don't toss the old bits out - someone trying for an authentic restoration will 
bless you for them!

Who ran with what:

 Ser I   1,595cc petrol (early) Lucas RF96/2 (later) Lucas RF95
 Ser I   1,997cc petrol    "                    "
 Ser I   2,052cc diesel    "       "
 Ser II  2,286cc petrol  Lucas RB1106/37182
 Ser II  2,052cc diesel  Lucas RB310/37189, (later) RB310/37297
 Ser IIA 2,286cc petrol  Lucas RB106/37290
 Ser IIA 2,286cc diesel  Lucas RB310/37472 (to suffix C)
                Lucas RB340/37387 (from suffix D)
 Ser IIA 2.625cc petrol  Lucas RB340/37517 

They want WHAT for one of these? (Spring 1996 prices)

 RF95   = 135 pounds to replace
 RB106/37182 = 20 pounds to replace (screw fittings)
 RB106/37290 = 20 pounds to replace (spade fittings)
 RB310/37189 = 110 pounds to replace (screw fittings)
 RB310/37304 =  110 pounds to replace (Lucar fittings)
 RB340  = 16 pounds to replace.

Know what you have.  You don't want to throw the wrong one out.
You can resell it to someone that needs it...

7. Final checkout and testing:

Okay, we're in to the home stretch now. With a belt in place, hand-crank over 
your Rover to make sure the alternator is set up properly and isn't going to 
jump the belt when you fire up.

Before reconnecting the battery, retrace all of your connections to ensure 
you've gotten it wired right. A little caution here can save an expensive smoke 
show.

Reconnect the battery and turn on the key. All of the warning lights including 
the dynamo warning light should come on to normal brilliance. If you have a 
meter, check to see that you have + 12 volts running to the large lug on the 
back of the alternator and the red wire on the small plug.

With this correct, start the vehicle. Odds are, the dynamo warning light will 
still be on. Don't panic, it's supposed to do that. Rev the engine and the 
light should go out. GM alternators do not start to charge until they get over 
1000 RPM or so on start-up.

If the light went out, you're all set. Inspect the mountings of the alternator 
to make sure all's well, and check the wiring for possible trouble spots 
rubbing on brackets and so forth. If you want to, check the voltage at the 
battery terminals. With the alternator charging, it should be 13.5 volts or 
higher.

If the light didn't go out, or if it never went on, recheck your wiring, 
especially the heavy lead going to the alternator and the small red sense lead. 
If either of these is disconnected, the alternator won't function properly. 
Also, as above, check the voltage at the battery to see if the alternator is 
actually charging.

8: Conclusion:

This modification , while a simple one, lets you update your Rover to the 
current output needed for more modern amenities like a stereo, driving lights 
and so forth. This way, on those dark nights with wipers, lights and heater fan 
going, you can drive without depleting your battery.

Good luck, and happy alternating!

      Copyright 1996, Alan J. Richer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 08:17:33 EST
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Three way split

If there is going to be a split (and I am not sure there should be), why
not make it a 3 way one?
  
1 list for series technical stuff (my engine seized when I went through
a five foot deep puddle).
  
1 list for plushmobile tech stuff (my windows don't work).
  
1 list for more general / social stuff, such as tyres, technique, trip
reports, magazine subscription spams, warmest regards from Costa Rica,
etc.
  
That way the cross posting of the stuff for the third list could be
avoided which would save the bandwidth for those pay for their mail and
avoid annoying those who are trying to read this at work without getting
caught from having to filter out the 30% which I suspect would be cross
posted.
  
Personally the bandwidth issue doesn't bother me, but if I had to spend
lots of time filtering out messages which I had already read I would be
pissed off.
  
This would not totally work though as I am sure all three lists would
receive the spams and the warmest regards from Costa Rica. It is a bad
sign that that message is now regarded as being as annoying as a spam.
  
There could even be ruthless punishment for unnecessary cross postings.
Say series owners moved to the plushmobile list for a week. Imagine the
humiliation of being associated with plushmobiles!
  
Just my opinion, Steve
  
Steve Reddock                         Product Evaluation, 26/12
Xyratex                  Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450  Int.721-4450
REDDOCK at HVTVM         Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 08:27:17 -0500 (EST)
From: John Pertalion <ap12536@xx.acs.appstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Series IIa Propshaft Question

> Now I don't want any of you Discovery owners peeking in here......8*)

	Hyuk, Hyuk!

> The question is this: I have 2 propshafts from an old Series IIa military (NOT 
> lightweight) that was scrapped. Unfortunately, it was an 88.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> 109? I'd rather rebuild a spare and put it in then deal with the 
> yank-rebuild-reinstall shtick.

	All the catalogs I have list the front shaft as the same on the 88 
and 109, except for vehicles with the 6 and 8 cylinder engines.  Sounds 
like it will fit.  Anyone one out there with a factory parts catalog to 
confirm this?

John Pertalion
'60 SII 88" "Gumdrop"

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Parking Brakes and Snow Chains
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 08:26:00 EST

Sandy Grice wrote "Better to leave it in neutral...an hope that the parking 
space is flat.  Cheers"

Now here's another use for the 2x6 blocks that help you fit the snow chains, 
1 in front, 1 behind. Or use the snow chains to attach it to the nearest 
lamp-post.

Trevor " Send me your cheque and I'll ship the spare engine" Easton

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 8:36:12 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:: Two Lists

>John Pertalion writes;
>I was to restrained in my first comment on two lists. If you don't own a 
>series, your not a real Land Rover Owner. How's that.

John,
Are you the proverbial series owner at the Land Rover Rally's that only 
talks to other series owners, and snubs the rest of us?

I like learning about the different quirks in all LR vehicles, and the 
solutions, and modifications that LR owners have devised to overcome them. 
I feel I benefit from the list being "all" owners.

Mechanical ability is not my strongest point. I would never attempt 
anything as huge as restoring "any" vehicle. Plus I need my truck 
everyday. I can't have it in the garage for months as I would have nothing 
else to drive! That's why I bought a new Defender. It was the closest 
thing in current production to a series Land Rover, and I do a lot of 
serious off-roading. I am learning to do my own maintenance as I go. 

I'm on the real time list. It takes me only seconds to read enough of a 
post to decide if I'm interested enough to continue, or "delete" and move 
on.

I'm for everyone staying together.

95 D90 Land Rover Owner, (the "series" that finally got it right). How's 
that?
Barnett Childress

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 07:47:19 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Series IIa Propshaft Question

Alan asks:
> The question is this: I have 2 propshafts from an old Series IIa military (NOT 
 lightweight) that was scrapped. Unfortunately, it was an 88.
 
 If both had 2.25L engines, would the 88 front propshaft be compatible with my 
 109? I'd rather rebuild a spare and put it in then deal with the >

Yep, they're the same on 2.25 SIIa 88's & 109's.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 08:43:48 EST
Subject: Ser II Hi-Lo Range Popping Out

How's that for a succinct subject line?

Thought I saw something about this a month or 2 ago.  My 
transfer box (red knob) lever wants to pop out of high range 
when I downshift to 3rd (always) and even when braking 
moderately (frequently).  Had this problem before, and it 
seemed to have gone away after I fiddled a bit under the top 
cover of the case, but started again after the first time I 
used low range subsequently.

Lanny at RN had said something about shifting the fork 
forward or back a bit (he couldn't recall which), but I need 
a bit more to go on before I go in again.

Jurrasic truck is now in 4WD-high, during which the symptoms 
are not evident.  2WD (yellow knob up)-high is the 
annoyance.  Should I just bungee the red knob lever forward 
as a "temporary" measure?

Hanky says Thanky
1960 Ser II 109 SWD

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 07:53:55 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Series Rover Tutorial: Alternate Alternators - or, GMing yo

Alan, did you sit up all night writing?

I didn't read it all the  way through since I've done the conversion 
and currently (no pun intended) have a Delco 108amp on my SII.
Which brings up the addendum I have for your instructions. 

If you are doing the conversion from a LR Lucas alternator (all the 
SIII's) to the Delco you will need to get your hands on a SIIa 
generator mounting bracket, and use that rather than the Lucas alternator 
bracket.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 09:00:34 EST
Subject: Non-OEM brushbars and SRS Compatibility

2 for 2, eh?  It ain't hard.  I vote One List, even though 
metal dashboards rule!

The family Disco has a genuine brushbar (you know, for 
pushing aside shopping carts at the Safeway) and I am 
curious if the SRS compatibility is because of the obvious 
give in the hollow tubes and/or the less-than-Grade-8 bolts 
used to attach bumper and bar to the frame.  If one should 
happen to bend one of these bolts whilst nudging a 
particularly massive shopping cart, must one avoid replacing 
it with a nice, shiny new cad-plated grade 8 bolt?  

This sort of stuff is why I'll keep the Ancient One ('60 Ser 
2) forever...no airbags, no EFI, no cell phone, no 
self-cancelling turn signals, no heat ....

Hank  (Tread Lightly, but "Don't Tread On Me")
USA -- Land of the Free, Home of the Stubborn

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 08:04:45 GMT -0600
Subject: two lists & bandwidth

Well, the suggestion for two lists to save bandwidth seems to have 
had the opposite effect. I hereby offer my services to see what the 
consensus is on the topic.

First, for the time being no more posts to the list about two (or 
more lists).
Next, e-mail me directly your desire.
 In the subject header put TWO LISTS if you want two and ONE 
LIST if you want, can you guess?, one, and DON"T CARE if you don't 
care one way or the other.

I'm not going to read each message, only sort them by subject to get a 
count, so for your vote to be valid your subject line must be exactly 
as above.
In one week I will report the results and people can take it from 
there.

Or, you can all tell me to take a flying leap if you think this is a 
dumb idea. By the way, I personally don't really care, I'd probably 
suscribe to both, so you can be sure I won't pad the results one way 
or the other.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:03:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Remember Your First Time? (fwd)

>>As for your trials @the shop, I think you have too much money in your
checking account!  Good for you.

Yes, that's why I own two British cars.  It keeps the mattress from getting
lumpy from excess cash.  

But really....  I've taken some flack here for the expense of the repairs to
Annabelle and paying someone $30 to change two light bulbs, but here's how I
look at it.  I own two cars, Lulubelle my '70 IIa (bought it new) with 1/3
million miles, and Annabelle my '89 RR (bought it used) currently with
100,000 miles.  Annabelle is my daily driver, and she is no plushmobile.
 There's no la-di-da wooden dash or fancy plastic spoiler, she's fitted out
for work.  She is invaluable for getting me around muddy, snowy, frozen
fields and construction sites, and the winch is used often for stumping,
skidding, and just pulling me out of the slop I get her into.  And then once
a year she takes me away from the MidWest to poke around my old desert
haunts.

Lullubelle was a working truck as well.

------------------------------

From: "DAVE MCKAIN" <MCKAIN@cemr.wvu.edu>
Date:          Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:16:36 EDT
Subject:       Two Lists

Dear all,

I too am for a split of the list into a Series and Late model format. 
Sorry to all you with the later model vehicles but the last thing I'm 
worried about is getting my computer wet or wondering wether my bull 
bar will interfere with air bag deployment.

Also, wouldn't it stand to reason that if you own a newer Rover you 
should be able to afford a servant to open your bottles for you while 
you drive?

Later,

David McKain
1972 SIII SWB (parting)
1970 SIIA SWB (parting)
1969 SIIA SWB (parting)
1959 SII Ex-Mil SWB
1963 SIIA SWB
mckain@cemr.wvu.edu
(304) 599-0120
Morgantown, WV
USA                     

------------------------------

From: "DAVE MCKAIN" <MCKAIN@cemr.wvu.edu>
Date:          Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:30:02 EDT
Subject:       Split List

subscribe serieslro.digest

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:21:28 -0500 (EST)
From: John Pertalion <ap12536@xx.acs.appstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Three way split

> If there is going to be a split (and I am not sure there should be), why
> not make it a 3 way one?

> warmest regards from Costa Rica,
> etc.
	Let's make it a four way split, 'warmest regards from Costa Rica' 
generates enough volume to justify his own list.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:22:26 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Three way split

Er,chaps,(and others),
>If there is going to be a split (and I am not sure there should be), why
>not make it a 3 way one?

etc,etc.
Exactly who is going to *do* all this work? Hmmm? I mean,the last time
this came up,Bill quite rightly in my view took the attitude of "Go ahead,
but dont look in *my* direction".
And the last panic,if I remember rightly,was to attempt to find a new home
for *any* list,let alone two or three,when Bill left for the States.
Just my two pennorth...
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:27:38 -0500 (EST)
From: John Pertalion <ap12536@xx.acs.appstate.edu>
Subject: re:: Two Lists

> John,
> Are you the proverbial series owner at the Land Rover Rally's that only 
> talks to other series owners, and snubs the rest of us?

	I don't even go to L-R Rallys, as I find that all the heathen vehicles
claiming L-R status taints the purity of my experience. `:)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 15:36:03 +0100
From: Igor Cerutti <igor@tinet.ch>
Subject: Re: DEFENDER 110s AND CAMEL TROPHY 110s

At 11,37 25.01.96 +0100, you wrote:

>Hi from Austin, Texas,
>     I'm looking for a Camel Trophy Defender 110 to buy.  I know what the
>import regs are so don't remind me. I imported a LR last May with no
>glitches.  When, where, and who sells the Camel Trophy Defender 110s after
>the race is over?

Probably you can ask to:        Jhon Craddock LTD      
                                70-76 North Street, Bridgtown          
                                Cannock, Staffs, WS1 13AZ
                                England
                                Tel. ++44 1543 577207  
                                               505408
                                Fax.           504818

Other direct to Global Event Management wich is the responsible for all
aspects of Camel Trophy,
Sorry but I can't remember the address, but ask to:      Vince Cobley
                                                         Pro Tax,
                                                         Tel ++44 1536=
 770096 
                               
Also, can anyone tell me how much a Defender 110 should
>cost in Pounds Sterling with the following, BUT with NO engine?

>                    1. Full roll cage (orig. Camel Trophy) mod. RBL 12 6SSS
                        Price: =A3950
                        Safety Devices

                        30, Regal Drive
                        Soham, Cambridgeshire, CB7 5BE
                        Tel. ++44 353 624624
                        Fax.          624824 

>                    2. Snorkle (orig. Camel Trophy)
                        Price: =A3130       
                        Mantec Services (U.K.)
                        21, Oldbury Road, Hartshill
                        Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TD
                        England
                        Tel./Fax. ++44 1203 395368

>                    3. 2 spare tires.
                        Jhon Craddock LTD, see abowe

Cheers
IGOR
kind regards
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Real Name       : Igor Cerutti
Address         : TINET Sagl, Centro Galleria 2, 6928 Manno-Lugano
Country         : Switzerland
Phone Number    : ++41 91 6108118
Fax Number      : ++41 91 6108119
e-mail          : igor@tinet.ch, http://www.tinet.ch

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 08:46:43 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Series Rover Tutorial: Alternate Alternators - or, GMin

Well, it seems I'm wrong again. this time about the Lucas aternator 
bracket not working with the Delco alternator. Alan has corrected me 
since that's what he's using.

Now I know there was a reason I couldn't use it, but I'll have to 
invesigate further. Maybe it was because I was using the Delco 
108amp.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 9:52:43 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re::Two Lists, more senseless banter

How's that for a direct subject line!

Ouch!
Barnett

>I don't even go to LR rallys all the heathen vehicles claiming LR status 
>taints the purity of my experience.

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:55:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Remember Your First Time? (fwd)

>>As for your trials @the shop, I think you have too much money in your
checking account!  Good for you.

Yes, that's why I own two British cars.  It keeps the mattress from getting
lumpy from excess cash.  

But really....  I've taken some flack here for the expense of the repairs to
Annabelle and paying someone $30 to change two light bulbs, but here's how I
look at it.  I own two cars, Lulubelle my '70 IIa (bought it new) with 1/3
million miles, and Annabelle my '89 RR (bought it used) currently with
100,000 miles.  Annabelle is my daily driver, and she is no plushmobile.
 There's no la-di-da wooden dash or fancy plastic spoiler, she's fitted out
for work.  She is invaluable for getting me around Wisconsin's muddy, snowy,
frozen fields and construction sites, and the winch is used often for
stumping, skidding, and just pulling me out of the slop I get her into.  And
then once a year she takes me away from the Midwest to poke around my old
desert haunts.

Lullubelle was a working truck as well.  I didn't buy her as a hobby, a
collectors peice, or because she looked good with my pith helmet.  She spent
her first decade mostly off-road in the desert while I worked for Time-Life,
the National Parks Dept., Death Valley Natl. Monument, and National
Geographic.  She's been through natural (as well as unnatural) disasters,
worked on rescue teams on both sides of the border, and been down the
backbone of Mexico.  When I did my graduate work in Providence, she also did
umpteen miles of coast to coast comutes.  She's had her share of breakdowns,
but she has never left me stranded (Lulubelle has always, ALWAYS, broken down
or run out of gas within coasting distance of a gas station or farm house).
 In past years I have done 100% of the repair work on the IIa.  But now,
alas, she's my fun car or my son's car when he's off at college.

Now to get back to the $30 light bulbs.  I am at a point in life where I
don't have enough time to spend with my family, let alone my cars.  I really
like Annabelle (she's more truck-ish than plush-ish), and I intend to keep
her for a good while.  I look at the money I'm putting in to her as an
investment in her continuing health & service.  This would usually be the
point in a car's life where I would just trade up to something new.  So....
to sum it up.  A few thousand dollars is cheaper to spend on something I
like, than to sink in to something new.

Oh yes, and about those $30 lightbulbs....   It's -10F here, I don't have the
time, and I would rather pick up the truck finished, with my do-list clean,
than to have another niggling project on the books.  Whew!  That's it.  Said
my peace. - - Tony

Oh, by the way Sherm, congratulations on your new RR.  Don't worry about the
name.  It'll come to you in a dream, or when you're swearing at it.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 06:08:15 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Two cents

Hmm.  This story came from the dealer, eh?  Sounds a bit urban legendary if
you ask me.

Cheers!
John

At 01:40 25.01.96 -0500, Bombdiver@aol.com wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>I realize that I put in my two cents the other day, but as I think about it
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 34 lines)]
>suitable amount of high explosives"
>P.S.  Those Yakima racks are still looking for a new home...

------------------------------

From: Gene Sparks <galleryg@techline.com>
Subject: Series vs. Plushmobiles
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 07:28:06 -0800

Talk about wasted bandwidth!!! First of all not all 'Plushmobile' owners =
are Perrier drinking, Grey Poupon eating Pseudo puddlejumpers. I bought =
my Discovery for Off Road performance, which it does quite well at might =
I add. I think if any of the Series owners would drive one Off Road they =
might sing a different tune. BTW If Series LR are the ultimate ORV then =
can someone please inform me as to why their production has stopped? If =
they were truly better than current models wouldn't the Military ask to =
have them built to the old specs rather than order the 'Plushmobile =
models'?
The only people I hear squawking here about bandwidth are the Series =
owners. And they say we're the snobs? Series vehicles are wonderful =
machines and have their strong points and an unquestionable exotic aire =
about them. Enough said. The Plushmobiles are a fine vehicle in their =
own right. Enough said.
Whats say we all try to live in peace and accept each other for what we =
are. "Land Rover Fanatics"
BTW It would be interesting to have a Series Rover go along on the Camel =
Trophy as and experiment to see how it compares to the new Plushmobiles. =
I'm certain LR would be very interested. Any takers?

"Life sucks, the you marry someone that doesn't know how"

Gene
96 Discovery (w/character dent)
Aberdeen Washington

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 25 Jan 96 10:47:12 EST
Subject: Re: Series vs. Plushmobiles

>BTW It would be interesting to have a Series Rover go along on the Camel =
>Trophy as and experiment to see how it compares to the new Plushmobiles. =
>I'm certain LR would be very interested. Any takers?

Cover the room and board on the trip and you're on!

  aj"Certifiably insane Series owner"rf

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 25 Jan 96 09:01:11 MST
Subject: Happy Australia day!!!

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
Maybe not entirely LR related, but since there are lots of LR's in
Australia, maybe it's not too far off subject.

If my sleepy headed calculations are somewhat close, then it's probably
somewhere in the wee early hours of Australia day down under. If
not.... OOPS!!! Sorry!

Dave (envious of the LR supply down under) Brown
 #=====#         #========#          -------,___          _________
 |___|__\___     |___|__|__\___      |--' |  |  \_|_     //__/__|__\___
 | _ |   |_ |}   | _ |  |   |_ |}    |  _ |--+--|_  |    \__/-\_|__/-\_|}
 "(_)""""(_)"    "(_)"""""""(_)"    ||_/_\___|__/_\_|}      (_)    (_)
                                       (_)      (_)
 1971 "88" IIa   1970 "109" IIa     1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover
 LIC: LION B8    Historic plates     (Too hard to "draw")  rear Lock-Right
 Phoenix Arizona USA                                       Crane cam

#=======#         _________           We make a living by what we get,
|__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
| _|  |   |_ |}  \__/-\_|__/-\_|}
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 11:13:28 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Series vs. Plushmobiles

T
BTW It would be interesting to have a Series Rover go along on the Camel =
Trophy as and experiment to see how it compares to the new Plushmobiles. =
I'm certain LR would be very interested. Any takers?

I believe it was the 1983 Camel Trophy that used Series III's. I'd be interested
to find out if any modifications were made to the SIII's the way they are to the
Discos. Anybody?

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:28:18 -0500
Subject: RE: Disco manual, RE: Airbags, RE: Camel Def. 110  ... OK?

Disco Manual:  Manuals cover all Disco for the model year.  And as Terri Ann
pointed out, British Pacific has the best prices even for manuals.  They're
on the left coast list and can be reached at britpac@aol.com.  (I don't work
for them either but they've always given me excellent customer service!)

You wrote "There are few problems that can't be solved with the proper
application of a
suitable amount of high explosives"   

That's the problem at the Mesa AZ plant that produces these things.... they
average about one explosion every three weeks in their manufacturing process!
 I wouldn't work there!
 
RE: Camel vehicles:  There are at least two for sale in the Jan '96 LRO.  I'm
not sure if they're 110's.   I believe one was a support vehicle.  Don't
remember any other details.

RE: Two lists:  "Can't we all just get along?"  Sorry had to say it.  I love
the humor and advice of the list regardless of the vehicle referenced. One
reason the list seems to get larger is that winter is digging deeper into the
northern hemisphere.  

Cheers...
Gerry "Phx AZ" Elam

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:09:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Series vs. Plushmobiles

On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Gene Sparks wrote:

> BTW It would be interesting to have a Series Rover go along on the Camel =
> Trophy as and experiment to see how it compares to the new Plushmobiles. =
> I'm certain LR would be very interested. Any takers?

	If I can't bring a 101, would a Series One 80" be acceptable?
	Of course, I reserve the right to outfit the 80" in a manner
	similar to the Discovery (raised air intake, winch etc).  
	Considering weigth difference, add modern tires, I'd bet you
	it would go the entire route more comfortably that the heavy
	Disco...

	As per the military ordering old spec vehicles, this is impossible
	in certain modern armies.  The military serves as an indirect
	government subsidy to industry.  To keep vehicles for a long
	time, then to specify exact replacements is not in the interest 
	of industry or the politicians.  Hence the Canadian Army replaces
	perfectly servicable Jeeps with a bastardised Iltis, the 101
	looses in open competition to a Dodge pick-up (the Dodge also
	beating out the Volvo Laplander with portal axles in 4x4 and 6x6
	form)...  If the Army could spec out what they really wanted,
	without bureaucratic or political inerference, the choice of kit
	would be slightly different.  Did LR really win that recent
	Ambulance contract for the British Army, or did the politicians
	and LR lobbying win the contract...  I'll bet you, like the 101
	vs. the Dodge, the truth is slightly different (considering leaks 
	beforehand indicated that the Austrian offering won)

	BTW, when with the Army Reserves, the Regular Force chaps we 
	trained with would have replaced the Iltis with a Series One
	80" faster than you could imagine...

	Don't worry about me, a 94 Disco will hopefully be the Saab 
	replacement in about 5 years when the price drops to something
	reasonable.  Until then, I'll have to suffer in my 109 sw 
	offroad, as the Saab 900 seems to be sorely lacking in off-road 
	characterics.  (Yo, Alan, I got fly screens in my front vents!
	Decadence!  :-))

	Rgds,

	PS.  I really doubt LR would be interested, but if they are paying,
	     count me in!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:22:40 EST
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Warmest...

Hi all, I am a digestive & probably unaware, but does everybody
on the live list get the warmest regards... crap with every
submission?
  
Just curious, Steve
  
Steve Reddock                         Product Evaluation, 26/12
Xyratex                  Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450  Int.721-4450
REDDOCK at HVTVM         Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM

------------------------------

From: JCassidyiv@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:27:18 -0500
Subject: Chevy V-6 in my RR

Thanks to Michael Carridine for the numbers for Scotty's and the conversion
business.  Both places don't deal much in the RR, just the older trucks.
 They both said my best bet was to check out sources in Australia.  Can
anyone on the list from Down Under help me out?  I want to put a 4.3 Chevy
V-6 in my 1987 RR. 
      Regarding the splitting of the list, I personally feel that I would be
missing out being acquainted with a great group of Land Rover owners if the
lists were separate.  I would subscribe to both anyway because we have a
Disco, RR, and Series IIA SWB.  What will happen if the "Series" list gets
too large?  Will it then be split into chat and help lists for series.
 Downsizing could continue until my mailbox has quite a few  separate lists
that I still have to download.   Just some thoughts.
Cheers!  John Cassidy, Bangor Maine USA

1995 Disco
1987 RR
1966 IIA SWB(under restoration)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 11:31:08 EST
From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben)
Subject: '84 RR for $1850  !!!!

I am so proud of my friend!
Remember I asked if an '84 RR for $3500 is a "buy"?  Most of you said yes.
So I told my friend who was looking at it of the general opinion.
Too bad all he could scrape up was $1850.  So that's what he offered.
And he just told me that it's in his driveway!
I always get him into these different cars - Alfas (2 ea), Jags (1 3.8S ea).
Now Rovers.  We now share yet another drivetrain - 3.5v8 w. dual CDs, LT95,
same axles.  Except his is a plushmobile.  You know what his first complaint
is - sagging headlining!!!  And the leather is dirty!! Arrgh!! 
I guess I have to develop a level of plushmobile tolerance now.  :)

As long as you're here...

What is the SOP for the leak from under the folding windshield?

Jan in US

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 12:56:41 EST
From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins)
Subject: Re: Two cents

>  While discussing after markety goodies (brush/grille guards) with the local
dealer, he passed along a story that might make you wonder.  A California
Discovery owner installed a non-Land Rover spec grill guard on his vehicle.
 Obviously not compatable with the SRS (that's airbags for you
non-plushmobile drivers).  As a result of a minor accident (under 5 MPH) the
>airbags deployed.

I really don't believe this.  If you could send me via the list or private
email or phone call the name of the dealer or any other information, I will
call and follow up on this.  Everything I have been able to find out, and
everyone who has posted regarding this issue to the list has determined
that the only reason that after market guards are not certified is the
expense of the certification process, not because they will make your
vehicle more or less able to deploy the airbag.  This really sounds like
urban legand to me.

I also can't see an insurance company refusing to pay to have a saftey
system repaired based upon what equipment was previously installed.  That
would open them to tremendeous tort liability problems.  Carried to it's
logical extreme using non-oem brake pads could allow the insurance company
to not pay for huge accidents.  They would be much better off just paying
without passing judgement.

I have a Disco and I follow the whole question pretty carefully as I am
considering upgrading my brush bar so that I can install a winch.  My brush
bar has been through lots of brush as evidenced by the scratches all down
the sides of my Disco.  I expect that it should do a whole heck of a lot
more than deflect shopping carts.  Hopefully I would expect that it would
allow me to torque the whole weight of the Disco on it while climbing
through rocks if I misjudged a move (very slowly mind you) while still
preserving my headlight assembly.

I am disapointed that the brush bar is not robust enough and preconfigured
for a winch.  Mine was on when I bought it so I did not have a choice.

Anyhow, back to the subject.  I volunteer to follow up on this urban legand
& verify it's veracity if anyone can give me any pointers.

ttfn

Tom Des Jardins, Inbound Technology Group
FORE Systems (412)635-3374  FAX 635-3333 url http://www.fore.com
5800 Corporate Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15237-5829

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:21:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Warmest...

On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Steve Reddock wrote:

> Hi all, I am a digestive & probably unaware, but does everybody
> on the live list get the warmest regards... crap with every
> submission?

	Nope.  Once a day and only a couple more to go...  Must remember
	to drop him a line asking how Costa Rica was on the 30th... 
	:-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 10:21:03 PST
From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: Re: Two Lists

One of the best points of the Internet is that it is unregulated.  There 
is absolutely nothing to prevent anyone from starting a new list up. 
Be it Series, Disco, D90, chatter, etc.   It is natural that more LR lists 
will form as the internet gets more crowded.  Subscribe to the ones you
are interested in.  Feel free to start your own if you feel there
is a need.  Might be polite not to redefine those that are already around.

Thanks to Bill for running this list.  I've really enjoyed the broad range
of topics and international views I've come across here.  More explicit
subject lines would be appreciated from all posters.  It is getting hard
to zero in on my major interests on those days when I don't have time to
read all the the posts.

-Rick
'94 D90

Richard Larson
LSI Logic Corporation
(408) 433-7149

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:55:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Two cents
From: "Andrew A. Dallas" <adallas@systemsoft.com>

I was in a fender bender last weekend in my Defender 90 and were not for 
the strength of the brush bar, I would have a very expensive repair bill 
or rather my insurance company would. The Ford Escort that spun out in 
front of me didn't fare as well.

Make sure whatever bar you get is going to do more than end up smushing 
other front end parts if it is subjected to more than just brush.
-AD 

*************************************************
            Andrew A. Dallas
            Full Spectrum Software, Inc.
            360 Market St.
            Suite 18
            Brighton, MA 02135, USA
            (617) 782-9829
            on-site office: (508) 647-2948
            adallas@tiac.net
            http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/
*************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:39:45 -0700 (MST)
From: Tebbin Salvesen <tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us>
Subject: Re: Two Lists

On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, John Pertalion wrote:
> real reason there should be two lists is because if you don't own a Series,
> you're not a real Land Rover Owner.

 
> 	How's that. `:)
 
> John Pertalion
> '60 SII 88" "Gumdrop"
Ill bet then youll have to split the list by series! It seems to me that
we are all a little LOONIE for owning any land rover product. Thats why we
need to stick together, the delete key is not that hard to push. (I use it
when ever i see the word series, cause I know i dont need any ANTIQUE info!)
as to plush mobiles comments 
1. have you ever been in a new chev or ford sport ute. now theres a plush
mobile!
2. how many land rover owners (all types) have ENDOed their cars whilst 4
wheeling? and then completely rebuilt them?
Remember "divide and conquer"!
T.S,
87 RR

------------------------------

From: Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com
Date: 25 Jan 96 14:10:18 -0500
Subject: Camel Trophy Versus NAS Discoveries

Is there a published list anywhere that contains the modifications made to 
the Camel Trophy Disco? I have heard such conflicting details on this! Are 
these diesels with manual trannies? What modifications are made? What make 
and size tires? Are the rear quarter panels cut back to fit the tires? Are 
the shocks and/or coils changed? To what? What else is done?

Thanks!

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:12:39 -0600
From: Insoo@ceramatec.com (Insoo Bay)
Subject: Euro Part Ltd. experience

Hi all:

This message may limit to the US subscribers.

I agree with Gene Sparks' experience to Euro Part.  I happed to find its
number in  the advertisement section of January issue 4wheeler magazine.
When I called Mohammed (owner) he explained what he is going to offer to
potential long term customers.  And he quoted his price on Disco steel
brush bar for an example.  Yes,  it was $375 and he also said that could be
shipped by UPS which would cost ~$30 (he is located in NY).  That is a
great saving comparing even to other independent US suppliers.  I was not
planning to order anything, but after I conformed the lowest price in the
States I had to place the order many items.  Addition to that he did not
even ask the credit card number until I received everything.  Here are pros
and cons I experienced.

Pros:   1.  Lowest price (comparable to import from UK)  2.  Friendly
services (constant communication over the phone or Email-more than 20 times
in 1.5 months)  3.  Promised delivery (even UPS red without charge-just to
keep his word)  4.  Professional sprit (he will do research your needs for
better price and quality)

Cons:  1.  Limited stock (sometimes you need to wait for 2~3 weeks)  2.
Unprofessional organization (only his wife is a current employee, sometimes
his daughter helps him too.)

He is specializing RR, Disco and Defs and I don't know if he has the
capability to treat Series owners, however, I bet he will be willing to
help.
Here is his phone number and email address again.

1-800-274-4830, com1@ix.netcom.com

I'm a just happy customer.

Happy Rovering.

Insoo
95 Red 5spd Disco (Mistress)
Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:45:17 -0800
From: vandecar@nwlink.com (Ted VanDecar)
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Could I prevail on somebody to forward Wednesday Digest?  
All my server delivered was the first page.

Thanks,

Ted Van Decar  <vandecar@nwlink.com>
Bellevue, Washington, USA
Warm regards,

Ted

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 25 Jan 96 16:34:51 EST
Subject: Re: Warmest...

>>  Must remember to drop him a line asking how Costa Rica was on the 30th...
:-) <<

I think we *ALL* should,
    But certainly not until he turns that damn message off!

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise"
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 25-Jan-1996

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:55:15 -0800
From: russ burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Ford Mavricks

As I am closely attached to Ford thu my job, I happen to see
a brief clip on a Ford Mavrick "Camel Trophy" type event.
Is a Ford Mavrick the same as an Explorer over here ???

Russ Burns
91 Range Rover
94 D-90
(lets all just send Email to ourselves, then we will not
have to worry about what one drives, drinks, or does for a living.)
Russ Burns
cisco/Ford
313-317-0451

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 14:49:33 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Leaky windscreen (Series related)

Jan asks:

>>What is the SOP for the leak from under the folding windshield?

Unbolt enough roof bolts to fold the windscreen forward.

Scrape off or remove gasketing (if any) from bottom of windscreen/top of 
firewall 

Replace with Original Windscreen to Bulkhead sealing strip from Rovers North (or
other supplier. 

Replace windscreen and roof bolts. 

You might want to do the roof to windscreen seal while you're at it. I think 
they're the same piece, not sure though.

Dave "leaks R us"

Apologies to ajr

------------------------------

From: BMR2%OPS%DCPP@go50.comp.pge.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 10:46:56 PST
Subject: 3.5L upgrade to 4.3L

   There is a book you might consider purchasing that talks 
all about the Rover alluminium V8's. I looked at it once and 
it talks about the history, refinements and performance 
upgrades that can and have been done. I know it can easily 
be punched out to 3.9L or even 4.3L. The Land Rover 
magazines from Europe advertise stroker kits all the time 
and I think if you look into it you could get one. A good 
speed shop can be alot of help too.
   The book is hard to find but you can order it through any 
of the big book stores like Barnes and Noble who also happen 
to carry the Land Rover mag's from Europe ( mine does 
anyways)
   Here is the info:

 Tuning Rover V8 Engines
 by David Hardcasle 1993
 Haynes ISBN #0 85429 933 5

   As far as adaptors to fit a chevy engine the only one I 
have heard of is through Mark's out of Australia and it is 
only good for adapting to the five speed. He has a homepage 
but I don't know what it is off of the top of my head.
   You will also find an engine swap to really add up in 
price after all the adapters and trouble you will go through 
I would look into the upgrade real seriuos.

Brian Rainbolt
89RR

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:51:33 -0800
Subject: Re: Series vs. Plushmobiles

Couldn't let this one go by ;*)

>Talk about wasted bandwidth!!! First of all not all 'Plushmobile'
> owners are Perrier drinking, Grey Poupon eating Pseudo
;  puddlejumpers. I bought my Discovery for Off Road 
> performance, which it does quite well at might I add. I think
> if any of the Series owners would drive one Off Road they 
> might sing a different tune. 

I can't talk about all Plushmobiles since I have only actually seen one Range
Rover off road.  I have not driven a Discovery but I have convoyed with
several off road.  I think they are amazing cars.  Rugged, very capable.  I
think they can go about 85% of the places that a series car or Defender can
go, but do it in air conditioned relativly smooth comfort with the CD player
blasting Wagner.  They allow you to offroad in comfort and keep your kidneys
where they belong.
The only reason they can't go everywhere a series/Defender can go has to do
with limitations on wheel size and ground clearence.
Disco Plushmobiles are amazing cars.  Thats why when I coined the term
Plushmobile I didn't want it to be a negative term, just one designating
going in plush style.

>BTW If Series LR are the ultimate 
> ORV then can someone please inform me as to why their
>  production has stopped?

Production stopped?  I know that the factory keeps threatening to hault
production because they are expensive to assemble, but as far as I know the
series Land Rover is alive and well.  They just changed the name a decade or
so ago to Stage I then to Defender.  If you doubt that, let me show you all
the current Defender parts I can unbolt from a Defender and bolt to my
109....Assuming you could find a new Defender owner willing to let me strip
his/her car.

> If they were truly better than current models wouldn't the
> Military ask to have them built to the old specs rather than 
> order the 'Plushmobile models'?

Sorry, I thought current military Land Rovers were variations of current
production Defenders.  I didn't know that they also purchased Discoverys &
Range Rovers.

> The only people I hear squawking here about bandwidth are
>  the Series owners. And they say we're the snobs?

Older series owners tend to be the chalvenistic snobs.  Defender owners just
know that Darwin was right and tend to help out their older relatives on the
worst part of the trails (Thanks for the help)  And I think 90% of the
Discovery and Range Rover owners JUST DON"T CARE and wouldn't recognize the
original Land Rover line in any of its incarnations if they had to walk
around it.  Its been my experience that the other 10% tend to be very nice
people who wanted a Land Rover for offroading that wasn't potentially worn
out and couldn't see paying almost as much for a Land Rover with so many
fewer creature comforts, or needed to think of young children passangers.

I think the REAL POINT OF THE PROPOSED SPLIT is that Discovery and Range
Rover owners are probably starting to out number us series owners.  Your
messages are (I think) outnumbering series specific messages and by & large
they are null content to series owners.  I personally do appriciate how
careful people are about labeling their messeges though.  I think the
Defender owners may have a delima in that even though they are the current
generation series car, they share an engine and many suspension designs with
the plushmobiles.

> BTW It would be interesting to have a Series Rover go along
>  on the Camel Trophy as and experiment to see how it compares
>  to the new Plushmobiles. 
> I'm certain LR would be very interested. Any takers?

I'm still convinced that Rover went from providing Defenders to providing
Discoverys for the Camel Trophy run PURELY for marketing reasons to show the
world that Discoverys were capable off road cars.  But If someone was willing
to sponser me and my car I would be very happy to take my 109 on a Camel
Trophy run.  I'm sure you could find a large number of series/Defender owners
who would love an oppertunity  to do so.  I think a diesl series car can go
at least anyplace a diesl Discovery can then leave it hung up when the
obsticals got a little tall.  Well actually we would be happy to help you get
the Discos over the obsticals.  But I'm sure the Disco owners would be a LOT
more comfortable the whole way.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:37:54
From: CarDoctor@gnn.com (Robert Davis)
Subject:  Chevy V-6 in my IIA

Hi All,
  I have heard that the 4.3 Chevy engine fits the 350 V8 Chevy bot 
patterns. Does any one know if this is true???  If I purchase a 350 
V8 "kit" could I use it in my IIA to install a 4.3 Chevy engine. 
(it is shorter in length)  This seems to be the ideal conversion 
for my IIA for power increase, cost, & power.  I am seeking 
comments & information.
  Regarding "Two Lists"  I am in favor of having the flexability of 
subscribing to either or both lists.
 Regards,
 Rob Davis_Chicago

 1971 IIA 88 (Gabe)
 1968 II  109 (Dads toy)

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:19:58 -0800
Subject: Re: Leaky windscreen (Series related)

On Thu, 25 Jan 96, "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org> wrote:

>You might want to do the roof to windscreen seal while you're at it. I think 
>they're the same piece, not sure though.

They're different part numbers, but basically the same.  A goo hardware store 
might be able to help you with the seal material at lower cost than genuine.

Eric

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:20:04 -0800
Subject: Defenders

Although I'm a devoted series enthusiast, I have to admit that the Defender coil 
sprung suspention provides for better off-road performance.
I once saw a D90 Tdi crawl effortlessly over a boulder and tree stump strewn mud 
bog while my Stage I bounced and lurched all over the place.
My vote for ultimate 4x4 would be a D90 Tdi...it will probably out perform 
anything out there...

I'd still love to give the CT a go in my Stage I though....any takers?

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 18:19:55 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: ADM Rant

Okay gang, what say we give a big collective raspberry to the Archer Daniels 
Midland Corporation.  I've just had my *third* vehicle in six months succumb 
to MTBE (methyl tetrabutyl ether) the "oxygenated" additive now in *all* US 
gasoline.

The first was the Rover...that wasn't too bad, the Zenith rebuild kit was 
$75 - curiously three times as expensive before.  Then the Nissan PU died - 
a vehicle that had *never* been in the shop for anything (save for oil 
changes and consumables).  The bill: $325 for a new carb.  Now a borrowed 
Buick has died with the same symptoms and it's only $475 to get back on the 
road.  While I haven't seen the innards of the latter two, the Rover's seals 
and O-ring were definitely degraded by "aggressive" oxygenated fuels.

For those across the pond or in Oz, the ADM Corp. controls something like 
40% of the US corn crop and over 60% of domestic ethanol production.  Hence 
they have a *big* stake in seeing that you buy ethoxalated fuels and lots of 
'em.  And to make sure you *have* to buy these in the future, ADM is the 
biggest campaign contributor to presidential hopeful Bob Dole (R. - Kansas). 
So, go out any buy that carb rebuild kit now.  It's not a question of *if* 
you're going to have to do it, but *when*.  Cheers
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: smitha@zeus.candw.lc
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:38:59 -0500
Subject: re:: snobbery, & the R380 'box

>95 D90 Land Rover Owner, (the "series" that finally got it right). How's 
>that?
>Barnett Childress
>I like it. I have never considered that I have anything else but the current 

model of what I used to gaze at in the showroom in Rhodesia when I was in high 
school (I guess it would have been an early Series III). To me there are the 
square Land Rovers that are all immediately identifiable as related to the 
1948 vehicle, and the rounded ones. Is it possible that if Land Rovers had 
been continuously available in North America then the transition from SIII to 
90 wouldn't have been viewed the same way - and because Land Rover returned to 
North America after a hiatus, with a bunch of new models, they therefore get 
bunched?
BWDIK, and anyway it is just MSB
But more to the point, what did you hear from your dealer about the 
lubrication issue with the early R380 gearbox?
Allan Smith
300Tdi 90     el Galeon
St. Lucia

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 18:41:23 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Re: Ford Mavricks

At 11:55 AM 1/25/96 -0800, you wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>As I am closely attached to Ford thu my job, I happen to see
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
>Russ Burns
>cisco/Ford
>313-317-0451
No.

The Ford Maverick in Great Britain is made by Nissan in Portugal, I think.
It is about the size of a Geo Tracker and comes in 2 and 4 doors.

If I can find the old copy of AutoCar with their test of it I can let you
know more.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover
Newport New Hampshire
603-863-7883

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:45:03 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Chevy V-6 in my IIA

At 04:37 PM 1/25/96, Robert Davis <CarDoctor@gnn.com> wrote:
>  I have heard that the 4.3 Chevy engine fits the 350 V8 Chevy bolt 
>patterns. Does any one know if this is true???  If I purchase a 350 V8
>"kit" could I use it in my IIA to install a 4.3 Chevy engine.  (it is
>shorter in length)  This seems to be the ideal conversion for my IIA
>for power increase, cost, & power.

 Not necessarily true!  The "ideal" conversion in one sense is one that
 will get you lots of extra HP, readily found engine and parts,
 reliability, and little or no modification to your existing IIA.

 After years of trying every Chevy variant and developing a custom
 adapter plate, Scotty in Concord, CA has to come to the conclusion that
 the "ideal" transplant is the IRON DUKE, the 4 cyl version of the Chevy
 straight 6.  Prior engines required many modifications including
 relocated engine mounts, setting the radiator forward, exhaust manifold
 modifications, etc, etc. while the IRON DUKE is a simple bolt-in, in
 fact, it can be removed with the old 2.25 liter put back in!  The donor
 vehicle is a '78 Chevelle or Nova, parts are available with most
 interchanging with the 6, HP is over 120 with the tweaked marine engine
 attaining 160-170 HP with good low-end torque.  What more do you need??
 With this and larger engines, the handling and braking characteristics,
 and driveline reactions will overwhelm the IIA.  You can get yourself
 an engine and accessories for less than $1,000 with another $550 for
 Scotty's adapter plate.  For more info, call Scotty's Foreign Car
 Service, Concord CA Tel. 510-686-2255

 Of course, after reading the advice of Steve at British Pacific
 <britpac@aol.com>, I'm convinced that an original 2.25 engine with a
 little tweaking, balancing, and tuning is probably the best alternative
 for a/my IIA.

>Regarding "Two Lists"  I am in favor of having the flexability of 
>subscribing to either or both lists.

 It won't do you any good if YOU don't read, as I essentially passed on
 this same information to the list in response to <JCassidyiv@aol.com>
 only a day or so ago!! 

 Cheers,
                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:09:47 -0800
From: Doug.Forehand@Eng.Sun.COM (Douglas W. Forehand)
Subject: Re: Remember Your First Time? (fwd)

> From LRO-Owner@uk.stratus.com  Thu Jan 25 09:16:17 1996
> Lullubelle was a working truck as well.  I didn't buy her as a hobby, a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> the National Parks Dept., Death Valley Natl. Monument, and National
> Geographic. 

Cool.

Got any pictures of your adventures you can share with the list?

-Doug

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:13:35
From: DRead@gnn.com (David  Read)

I am a recent LRO ('71 SIIa, 88"). I have noticed that when I drive it 
at 50 or 55 for a sustained period of time (on the highway), it seems 
to drift - to either direction. It feels almost as if the front wheels 
have a mind of their own! Perhaps they don't like being driven that 
fast?
I assume that this drifting is a result of "loose-ness" in the steering 
caused by age (rather than being possessed by the devil).
Have any of you Series owners had similar experience?

David Read
Ann Arbor  

------------------------------

From: smitha@zeus.candw.lc
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 20:12:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Warmest...

>>>  Must remember to drop him a line asking how Costa Rica was on the 30th...
>:-) <<
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>    But certainly not until he turns that damn message off!
>That settles it - I had been debating whether or not to take my notebook on 
my trip to Belize on Saturday, considering how much diving and camera gear 
will be going. Now I know I want to be connected on the 30th. Plus, I will 
also be able to send my warmest ...... from Central America!
Allan Smith
300Tdi     el Galeon
St. Lucia
>>>  Must remember to drop him a line asking how Costa Rica was on the 30th...

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Series vs. Plushmobiles
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:27:55 -0800

Is it time for the semi-annual Series v. Plushmobile discussion already?!?! 
 I thought we just buried that one last month. Can't we just point the 
people who insist on rattling this particular cage to a website and leave it 
at that?
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/  and I think the Series LR's are cool, too.

"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King.

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:45:00 -0500
Subject: $$ a response $$

>>As for your trials @the shop, I think you have too much money in your
checking account!  Good for you.

Yes, that's why I own two British cars.  It keeps the mattress from getting
lumpy from excess cash.  

But really....  I've taken some flack here for the expense of the repairs to
Annabelle and paying someone $30 to change two light bulbs, but here's how I
look at it.  I own two cars, Lulubelle my '70 IIa (bought it new) with 1/3
million miles, and Annabelle my '89 RR (bought it used) currently with
100,000 miles.  Annabelle is my daily driver, and she is no plushmobile.
 There's no la-di-da wooden dash or fancy plastic spoiler, she's fitted out
for work.  She is invaluable for getting me around Wisconsin's muddy, snowy,
frozen fields and construction sites, and the winch is used often for
stumping, skidding, and just pulling me out of the slop I get her into.  And
then once a year she takes me away from the Midwest to poke around my old
desert haunts.

Lullubelle was a working truck as well.  I didn't buy her as a hobby, a
collectors peice, or because she looked good with my pith helmet.  She spent
her first decade mostly off-road in the desert while I worked for Time-Life,
the National Parks Dept., Death Valley Natl. Monument, and National
Geographic.  She's been through natural (as well as unnatural) disasters,
worked on rescue teams on both sides of the border, and been down the
backbone of Mexico.  When I did my graduate work in Providence, she also did
umpteen miles of coast to coast comutes.  She's had her share of breakdowns,
but she has never left me stranded (Lulubelle has always, ALWAYS, broken down
or run out of gas within coasting distance of a gas station or farm house).
 In past years I have done 100% of the repair work on the IIa.  But now,
alas, she's my fun car or my son's car when he's off at college.

Now to get back to the $30 light bulbs.  I am at a point in life where I
don't have enough time to spend with my family, let alone my cars.  I really
like Annabelle (she's more truck-ish than plush-ish), and I intend to keep
her for a good while.  I look at the money I'm putting in to her as an
investment in her continuing health & service.  This would usually be the
point in a car's life where I would just trade up to something new.  So....
to sum it up.  A few thousand dollars is cheaper to spend on something I
like, than to sink in to something new.

Oh yes, and about those $30 lightbulbs....   It's -10F here, I don't have the
time, and I would rather pick up the truck finished, with my do-list clean,
than to have another niggling project on the books.  Whew!  That's it.  Said
my peace. - - Tony

Oh, by the way Sherm, congratulations on your new RR.  Don't worry about the
name.  It'll come to you in a dream, or when you're swearing at it.

------------------------------

From: smitha@zeus.candw.lc
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 20:11:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Series vs. Plushmobiles

 I know that the factory keeps threatening to halt
>production because they are expensive to assemble, but as far as I know the
>series Land Rover is alive and well.  They just changed the name a decade or
>so ago to Stage I then to Defender. 

Exactly

>I'm still convinced that Rover went from providing Defenders to providing
>Discoverys for the Camel Trophy run PURELY for marketing reasons to show the
>world that Discoverys were capable off road cars.  

An article in LRO International on the history of the Trophy was very clear 
that that was the reason. Their amazing performance is a positive image that 
should be appreciated by subscribers on however many lists, but I like the 
fact that Defenders are the support vehicles.
Allan Smith
300Tdi D90   el Galeon 
St. Lucia
>I'm still convinced that Rover went from providing Defenders to providing
>Discoverys for the Camel Trophy run PURELY for marketing reasons to show the
>world that Discoverys were capable off road cars.  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:55:59 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: "Bootlegger" turns

>It takes practice (and a bit of nerve) but is great fun in the right 
conditions (like snow).  The famous Scandinavian rally drivers all mastered 
>this technique...

A few years ago, I had a full day's training at Jean-Paul Luc's ice driving 
school in Steamboat.  A *great* experience with lots of practical, real life 
examples.  The most fun was learning to do "bootlegger" turns, but alas,
this *is not* applicable to Rovers.  Start into the turn and lock up the 
rear wheels with the handbrake.  Let that rear end sling around.  When you 
get lined up with the exit line, mash the accelerator and drop the 
handbrake.  *Definitely* takes practice - here on a tight track lined with 
soft snow banks - but loads of fun...especially in someone else's vehicle.

        Nothing four wheel drives like a rented car.  Cheers
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 21:07:46 -0500 (EST)
From: STEVE COX <Steve_Cox@mci.newscorp.com>
Subject: Please Save Bandwidth

John Y. Liu writes:

>Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996
>From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Please Save Bandwidth

>This is in the <SNIP> category.  Please <SNIP> snip <SNIP> previous
messages <SNIP>
><SNIP> to keep the bandwidth down.  <SNIP> subscribe to <SNIP> 2 <SNIP>
lists (<SNIP> and
>SNIP) and get <SNIP> 100-160 messages a day.  <SNIP> more discussion the
merrier -- <SNIP> 
>but appreciate how long <SNIP> to download.  Any <SNIP>
>snipping <SNIP> appreciated.

I wait for January 29.

Steve (no regards from Costa Rica) Cox

------------------------------

From: howtaw@hg.uleth.ca
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:22:03 MST
Subject: For Sale

Hello, thanks for the comments on putting the kerosene hotshot in the back of
my 109.  I'll think about it alittle more be fore I try it, I'll post the
results when I do it.

My friend Iver would like me to post the Rovers that he has up for sale again.
Here they are:
	101 foward control soft top exmilitary with center PTO winch
	88 airportable lightweight, soft top
	109 2door soft top
He also has a lot of used spares, wheels, body parts,etc...  (has a couple of
pickup cab roofs, allsorts of good stuff).

Iver can be reached (403) 638-2189, (403) 638-2400, Fax (403) 638-2602
Also you can E-mail me at Howtaw@hg.uleth.ca and I will relay to Iver.

As for myself I have two 109 frames and a variety of Ser II&III mech parts that
I no longer need for my projects.  If anyone needs anything please E-mail me at
the above address.

Thankyou for putting up with this Land Rover junkmail.
Andrew Howton
109 2door
109 NADA (parting)
110 2door (building)
                       

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 21:32:42 -0500
Subject: Re: 3.5L upgrade to 4.3L

> As far as adaptors to fit a chevy engine the only one I 
>have heard of is through Mark's out of Australia and it is 
>only good for adapting to the five speed.

There are several outfits in England which install Chevy V8s in RRs. The bolt
patterns is identical on a Chevy 4.3 V6, so whatever adapter they use should
work. In fact there are a couple of outfits installing the GM 6.2 Diesel V8
in RRs, and I believe (but not sure) the bolt pattern is the same as the
Chevy.

------------------------------

From: ecoethic@rcinet.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 21:39:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: List Splitting

I am in favor of some sort of list division as 100+ messages is a bit much to wade 
through lately. I am supposed to be working on my dissertation, and here I am 
goofing off reading plushmobile problem messages!

How about splitting between Series, D90's, 110's and Discoveries/Range Rovers?
That way there will tend to be a list for those who actually go off-road and one for 
those who are concened about decor, status, and comfort. Now, those of you who 
go off-road but play your CD with the air-conditioning on - isn't there a list for 
grand cherokee owners?

I'm not worried about any flames because I never run into any plushmobiles where 
I go in the rockies anyway. But seriously, if the message count stays at the current 
level and/or grows, something should be done.

Walt Pokines
Tipp City, Ohio, USA

------------------------------

From: Bombdiver@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:05:38 -0500
Subject: Airbags

On 24 Jan, ERICZ stated that a stick of dynamite exploded in a closed room
with no windows would only produce 2 psi.  Well maybe if that room were the
high school gymnasium.  Commercial dynamite, composed of 60% nitro produces
approximately 15 psi measured at 2 feet which them disapates down to 2 psi by
15.7 feet.  However, since we're inside a room with no windows, depending on
where the dynamite was when it was detonated, blast overpressure will vary
anywhere from 2 up to almost 20 psi.  This is due to the enhance effect that
reflected pressure waves have on subsuquent event waves.  Pressure waves do
not act like sound waves.  Depending on the angle at which the two waves
interact, the resultant pressure will be equal to or greater (never less)
than the initial event waves.
Seperate listings, why stop at two?  Let's have a seperate list for each
model.  I forsee definite problems arising from series II and IIa owners
(fighters to your respective corners).  And then there are those troublesome
Forward Control owners...  Good God people, no wonder people don't wave at
each other.....

Andy (why can't we all be friends) Baran
95 Discovery  Matilda

"There are few problems that can't be solved with the proper application of a
suitable  amount of high explosives"

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 96 22:36:27 EST
From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: Synchro hub springs

A coupleof days ago Micheal Slade wrote re synchro hub springs.
  It is not necessary to remove the gearbox to replace the broken synchro hub
springs. They can be repalced in situ after removing the top cover and the
selector shafts.
 It takes some dexterous maniuplation with thin nose pliers but it can be done.
I have personally carried out this operation several times and it is a lot
simpler than taking out the box to dismantle it to replace the springs.

 Regards Bill Leacock  Limey in exile.

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:38:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Towing limits

>Hi all, I thought the towing limits quoted by manufacturer had
>nothing to do with safety, all about pulling power.

In the U.S. at least, towing limits quoted by the manufactuer are frequently
determined by durability concerns including engine, transmission, cooling
(frequently a major concern), body/frame, suspension, etc. and safety from
the stability standpoint. Maximum pulling power is frequently greater.

David Cockey
(The above, as well as all of my comments reflect my personal opinion, and
not those of  my employer.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 11:55:36 +0800
From: Oscar <omont@mnl.sequel.net>
Subject: Two Lists

Thanks for the bandwidth guys.

Been lurking/on the list since November, in the Philippines, an '89 NAS RR,
no commercial Series here, no dealers/parts/service, only Lanny, and beyond
a warm and pleasant welcome to the list, barely a response to a couple of
help questions (as some have said, their interests are in Series comments).
Your sentiments are all respected.

Myself, I truly enjoy reading the Series postings, its a source of envy
wishing I could get one.  Series postings are an encouragement, learning to
repair old/used/worn out parts in a land with no new/old parts or service.
Nor do I bitch if there are no responses to my postings.  Why split the
list?  Look at the subject line and skip what doesn't interest you, as one
said, the keyboard exists and does have functions.  And really, who'll post
to a non-Series list?  Takes away the fun and humor and I gather a lot of
non-Series guys look to the Series guys for help.  If weekends can be
devoted to off-roading with all its +/- points, do the same with the list.
Owning an LR means making do, right?

And......a Land Rover product _is_ a LR product, with all its
idiosyncrasies.  Fine, the Series is ahead 50-odd (?) years, the Range
25-odd (?) years, etc.  But each was designed according to different needs
at different times.  Yes, there are those who envy and do mimic,
successfully/unsuccessfully, Series off-road adventures.  So?  And yes,
Series owners figure solutions to icing carbs while non-Series owners figure
repairs to a stuck up power window.  So?  Isn't that all part of what we
love about our LR product?

IMO, we all share the same comment....LRNA or some of its dealers _appear_
to practice snobbishness and bigotry.  Let's not extend any form of it to
this list, whether you're a Series or a non-Series owner.

Oscar "no name, no imoticons, about to be dismembered" in Manila

omont@mnl.sequel.net
75247.2423@compuserve.com

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 23:25:02 -0500
Subject: Re: More V-8 folklore

In a message dated 96-01-24 23:59:31 EST, you write:

>At that time, Rover >was still casting about for a powerplant for the "100
inch station wagon project".  Up until then, the 3.0 litre (P-5??) Rover
straight six was the 
prime candidate.  At the plant, he literally stumbled across the little
Buick V-8 that was being used as a boat engine because of its light weight.
Rover bought the patent rights from GM and the rest, shall we say, is 
history.  Cheers

A reasonable bit of folklore. According to James Taylor in "Range Rover" in
early '66 Spen King and Gordon Bashford were developing a number of schemes
for a "leisure vehicle" which used the 3 litre straight six. "But it soon
became apparent that there was an even better engine for the job. AROUND
EIGHTEEN MONTHS EARLIER, Managing Director and William Martin-Hurst had
secured the manufacturing and development rights to General Motors'
lightweight 3 1/2-litre V8 unit, and the engine teams at Rover were already
actively adapting it to suit British manufacturing practices and British
customer requirements. PRODUCTION WAS EXPECTED TO BEGIN FOR THE SALOON CARS
IN 1967, and would build up sufficiently..."

So it looks like the engine was acquired for the saloon cars, and then use in
the Range Rover was concieved. I'm curious as to what Rover acquired in
addition to the rights. Presumably some of the patterns went, but I presume
the transfer lines stayed and were used for the iron Buick V8s with the same
bore spacing.

David Cockey

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 23:35:23 -0500
Subject: Re: LR max towed weight

>Folks I have a novice trailer puller question.
 What does the term "max. towed weight" mean?
 Is it the static weight of what you are towing?
 Is it the weight on the hitch?
>Is it the pull you need to move the towee?

I assume "max. towed weight" means maxium gross trailer weight, i.e. the
maximum weight of the trailer and trailer payload combined. Yes, most cars
and some light trucks cannot tow an equivalent vehicle. Usually it is due to
hitch, body/frame strength, engine cooling, or stability concerns. What you
can physically move is frequently more than the manufactuers recommendations.

David Cockey 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 21:09:25 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Steering Wobble

Chris wrote:

>My '69 SRIIa 88" SW has developed a bit of shaking in the steering at high
>highway speeds (55-60mph). When I turn the wheel it seems to go away, but
>soon returns. Is this a steering shock, worn swivel pins, need of toe
>adjustment, wheel balancing? Where do I start.

TeriAnn wrote:

<snip>  The next thing I would do is jack up the front of your car and shake the
>wheels.  Losseness can cause your wobble and can be caused by  lose front
>wheel bearings and worn swivel ball mounts.  <snip>

I would add:

With truck jacked up, grab top of tire and pull and push in and out.  If it
moves more than a very very small amount, your bearings or swivels are worn
as TeriAnn said.  Have someone apply the foot brake and repeat the
pushing-pulling test.  If the movement goes away, lucky you, it's likely the
bearings.  If the movement remains, boo hoo, it's likely the swivels.  Parts
cost to replace all bearings and rebuild swivels on front axle bilaterally
is about $300.  If that's your problem email me and we'll talk, since I did
it a couple months ago and can suggest what not to do.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 21:35:44 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: For Dick Lague

Dick, my mail to you bounced so here it is.  To everyone else, well, I kept the 
message short anyway.

>><snip> GNN.com is just a service company.  I don't follow <snip>

>There is a good travel series on the WWW calling "Looking for Lovedu", by a
>writer and her (boyfriend?) traveling through Africa in a battered Series
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>Did you get my earlier message responding to your Rover Wanted?  I wasn't
>sure if you never got it or weren't interested.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 21:35:47 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Two Lists: (1) Newsgroup?, (2) Coding Messages as SR, RR,

This talk about list splitting reminds me of our earlier discussion about a
Land-Rover newsgroup.  The advantage: if you fail to check your mail for a
couple days, you don't end up with 300+ messages; threads are easier to
follow, too.  The disadvantages: "strangers" get in; not everyone has Usenet
access;  someone would need to create the newsgroup; and is there enough
interest to qualify for an official "rec." group anway?  I think the digest
would have to get lots bigger before I would favor a newsgroup, but we might
get there someday.

As for splitting the list, I do not favor it.  I'm a Series owner but aspire
to a Rangie and like Discos, so I'd have to subscribe to both lists.
Instead, I suggest this protocol:   In the Subject line of every message
that deals specifically with Series trucks, put SR; for Range Rover-specific
messages, put RR; for Disco-specific, put DS; other messages, leave uncoded.

E.g.:  SR -  Opening Bottles?  RR - How To Keep ECU Dry, DS - Sunroof Leaks?

I'm going to try it for awhile.

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:03:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Airbags

On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Bombdiver@aol.com wrote:

>On 24 Jan, ERICZ stated that a stick of dynamite exploded in a closed room
>with no windows would only produce 2 psi.  Well maybe if that room were the
>high school gymnasium.  Commercial dynamite, composed of 60% nitro produces
>approximately 15 psi measured at 2 feet which them disapates down to 2 psi by
>15.7 feet. 

You're probably right (especially considering your user name)...the info was 
related to me by a local cop who (I find out now) has a real tendency towards 
exageration.  Hence, I am once again, very red-faced.  From now on I'll listen 
to the list folks (even plushmobile owners), I have less flak that way....

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:37:54 -0800
Subject: Re: ADM Rant
From: Hugo Madden <madhugo@best.com>

>For those across the pond or in Oz, the ADM Corp. controls something like 
>40% of the US corn crop and over 60% of domestic ethanol production.  Hence 
>they have a *big* stake in seeing that you buy ethoxalated fuels and lots of

But methyl tert-butyl ether isn't made from corn.  Ethanol is.  So you 
can blame ADM for the fuel with ethanol in it but the MTBE is made by yr 
old friends the oil companies.  Perhaps we should blame the politicians.  
After all, we get the government we deserve.

                                                        _______
                                                       //_/_|__\___
                                                       \_ - ___ - _d 
                                                         (o)   (o)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 23:03:23 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: The clog from Central America

Dave sez....

>Mike L. writes:
>>Face it, when you get back, you don't really want to read 1000+ messages
>>about doing 180's, leaking Range Rovers and oil spewing SerIIa's, now, do you?
.......snip.......
>Actually, I can't think of anything I'd rather do.
>Dave "Inbox 570/1664" Bobeck
-

I just got back from three days of software training... Only 461 messages
sitting here to read... (Big pot of coffee....)

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 23:03:23 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: Two Lists

John sez...

>I'm all for a Series/PostSeries split of the list.  I own a SII and am 
>not interested in the D90, Disco, and RR dialogues.  (Not that they aren't
>great folks.)
-

Oy.... here we go again folks... Every six months this subject comes up....

Grumble, grumble....

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 82 lines 3515 [forwarded 243 whitespace 860]
 Output: lines 2903 [content 1749  forwarded 179 (cut  64) whitespace 818]

	
    Forward
	


	
    
          
	



Photos & text Copyright 1990-2011
	Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved. 

Digest Messages Copyright 1990-2011 by the original poster or/and
	Bill Caloccia,
	All rights reserved.