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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 03:22:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Comments

In a message dated 96-01-22 18:02:10 EST, you write:

>95 Discovery  Portifino Red   Matilda
>"There are few problems that can't be solved with the proper application of

a
>suitable amount of high explosives"

Hey you guys, you ever thought of asking Andy how to fix a LR's oil leak???
:)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 06:05:16 UT
From: "Peter McGough" <McGou@msn.com>
Subject: RE: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

----------
From: 	owner-lro-digest@uk.stratus.com
Sent: 	Monday, January 22, 1996 12:55 AM
Subject: 	The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Subscription 

As a new subscriber please allow me to introduce myself.

I live in Calgary, AB, Canada, and have the following Rovers: 55 Ser 1 86" Hrd 
Top. 55 Ser. 1 Truck cab, 1957 Ser 1 Hrd top 88", 1979 Range Rover 2 Door.

Having decided that there is only some much time in the day for LR and to stop 
living the lives, vicariously, of Dixon and TeriAnn and jump into the debate. 
In any event I only have some much paper and am only up to 5/93 in the 
archive!

Does anyone know about a cancelled Military order for 90 and 110 LandRovers? 
Apparently there are a large number available, but not for sale in the US.

Some time ago Dixon posted the military code for various fluids: I have a can 
of OX8 which is described as brake and clutch fluid. However is it DOT 3 of 4? 
It was in a group of LR's I helped move from the Base at Wainwright and as 
such should be DOT 4 but? Also on brake fluid I have run DOT 5 Silicone in my 
RR for many years with no ill effects.

Rgds

Peter McGough

Peter McGough

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 01:01:25 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Thank God for the OD

 Well, with all these invocations of 'God' lately, maybe the LROA can
 qualify as a charitible religious association.

 Let us pray, and smile :)

-Michael Carradine
 VP pro temp, LROA

:Michael Slade writes:
:Well, my transfer lever rattles may have indicated a larger problem looming
:deep inside my x-mission.  Now- The Rest of the Story......
....snip....
:So, for all of those who haven't installed an OD yet, I can offer my
:suggestion to DO IT!  It'll definitely come in handy when your synchronizer
:spring decides to fail.

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:00:41 +0000
Subject:       Re: UK LR meet question

On 22 Jan 96, David Olley at NEW CONCEPT wrote:

> Hi TeriAnn
> Many will probably tell you to attend the LRO International annual bash
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> Rover marque, and usually attracts about 5,000 Landy's of all types. You
> will find info in forthcoming LRO mags.
Billing is listed as 12-14 July (it's also called the National Off-road 
show)

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

Quote of 1995: "The archididascalus is to be rusticated and will
                cease to be an abecedarian on the 1st of April"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:46:45 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Help

. . . and remember:
>Age and treachery will always beat youth and skill. (smokey unick i think...)
>john

Ah,but if you start with youth and skill,and apply the skill to treachery,
you end up old,skilled,*and* treacherous.
Besides,remember the young bull and the old bull?
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:13:44 GMT
From: newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT)
Subject: Re: UK LR meet question

>Billing is listed as 12-14 July (it's also called the National Off-road 
>show)

I have just checked my diary. Billing is a week later - 19th to 21st July.
The National Off Road Show is the other one (a week earlier) at West Wycombe
- isn't it?

David Olley
............................................................................
.........
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
............................................................................
.........

------------------------------

Date: 23 Jan 1996 02:33:08 U
From: "Bill Wright" <Bill_Wright@cpqm.saic.com>
Subject: [1]The Land Rover Owner Dai

        Reply to:   [1]The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Warmest regards from Costa Rica.  I currently plan to return to the office on
January 29th.  If you absolutely need to contact me while I'm on vacation,
both Lynda Houston and Millie Steele have my itinerary and phone numbers.
I'll take action on your e-mail as soon as I can.
Bill
------------------------------

Date: 1/23/96 2:28 AM
From: Land-Rover-Owner@uk.stratus.co

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	  Contents:
  1 mloxton@msn.com    Mon Jan 22 03:02   32/1287  FW: Rangie Brake Bleeding
  2 mloxton@msn.com    Mon Jan 22 04:01   22/1127  Synthetic Oil
  3 Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk Mon Jan 22 04:17   39/2084  Re: Landie wiring
  4 Wdcockey@aol.com   Mon Jan 22 04:40   35/1975  Re: Towing Capacity
  5 wrm@ccii.co.za     Mon Jan 22 04:52   90/4167  Re: Polarity
  6 JEPurnell@aol.com  Mon Jan 22 05:49   20/1213  OVLR birthday party date?
  7 steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com Mon Jan 22 05:52   33/1608  Uneven braking
  8 jve@phaseone.dk    Mon Jan 22 06:48   58/3080  Build your own gearbox cr
  9 barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com Mon Jan 22 07:06  
21/1160  re:Re: Reply/Amsoil Synth
 10 barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com Mon Jan 22 07:10  
19/1094  re:RE: Suspension/ABS Bra
 11 garym@cais.cais.com Mon Jan 22 07:19   28/1325  TV LR sightings
 12 barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com Mon Jan 22 07:27  
21/1224  re:: Swaybars; Evil menac
 13 jve@phaseone.dk    Mon Jan 22 07:42   37/1843  Re: Uneven braking
 14 barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com Mon Jan 22 08:00  
25/1434  re:Disco "frozen" in plac
 15 ap12536@xx.acs.appstate.edu Mon Jan 22 08:35   63/2579  Re: <lro's in NC
 16 w1eox@ix.netcom.com Mon Jan 22 08:47   58/2062  better traction
 17 trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU Mon Jan 22 08:59   51/2123  Re: TV LR sightings
 18 ccray@showme.missouri.edu Mon Jan 22 09:22   34/1847  Re: Opening beer
bottles 
 19 Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com Mon Jan 22 09:33   34/2026  LR's and
High Power Trans
 20 burns@cisco.com    Mon Jan 22 09:35   53/1847  Re: Towing Capacity
 21 rvirzi@gte.com     Mon Jan 22 09:36   29/1217  re: ROVER RENTALS
 22 Harincar@mooregs.com Mon Jan 22 09:40  130/6766  Frame Replacement Log: We
 23 dlague@gnn.com     Mon Jan 22 09:41   42/2036  Range Rover Great Divide 
 24 dkenner@emr1.emr.ca Mon Jan 22 10:04   34/1625  Re: OVLR birthday party d
 25 ecrover@midcoast.com Mon Jan 22 10:12   31/1691  Rover Rentals
 26 crash@merl.com     Mon Jan 22 10:15  105/4136  Polarity and the CB radio
 27 jeff@purpleshark.com Mon Jan 22 10:18   45/2190  Re: nit picking
 28 ib011ca@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us Mon Jan 22 11:03   21/1292  Re: LR
instructional vide
 29 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Mon Jan 22 11:59   26/1020  Re: Help
 30 tomills@du.edu     Mon Jan 22 12:06   39/2103  Re: TV LR sightings
 31 cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us Mon Jan 22 12:06   41/1863  correction to
list of dea
 32 JEPurnell@aol.com  Mon Jan 22 12:35   20/901   Re: OVLR birthday party d
 33 PurnellJE@aol.com  Mon Jan 22 12:36   30/1713  Re: nit picking. . . and 
 34 dkenner@emr1.emr.ca Mon Jan 22 12:53   38/1512  Re: Polarity and the CB r
 35 jib@big.att.com    Mon Jan 22 12:55   28/1419  Rover v8 weight
 36 brabyn@skivs.ski.org Mon Jan 22 12:57   38/1368  Re: Swaping RR 1990-1991 
 37 mfredett@sedona.intel.com Mon Jan 22 13:02   54/2187  Re: Defender tools
 38 trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU Mon Jan 22 13:06   46/1648  Re: Help
 39 dkenner@emr1.emr.ca Mon Jan 22 13:13   37/1747  price for 1994 LR-Defende
 40 Willyz@aol.com     Mon Jan 22 13:24   38/2023  Oil Pressure Guage fix?
 41 0004297420@mcimail.com Mon Jan 22 13:27   22/1166  Please delete my Name
 42 Bill_Wright@cpqm.saic.com Mon Jan 22 13:31  122/5554  [1]The Land Rover
Owner D
 43 rosenbau@u.washington.edu Mon Jan 22 13:32   36/1945  Re: nit picking. . .
and 
 44 jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com Mon Jan 22 13:33   45/2294  Quaiffe
Diffs...?
 45 barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com Mon Jan 22 13:49  
35/1660  re:Re: Swaybars
 46 tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us Mon Jan 22 14:11   38/1693  Re: Rover v8
weight
 47 twalkley@multicare.com Mon Ja

------------------------------

From: Inkornoink@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 07:16:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Used rangies

Yesterday, you mentioned:

"*Still* considering that used '90 County down here....Anyway, once the state
sales tax and all is paid, the price is around $17.5K "
"Anybody else on this side of the pond think that $17k is a 
good price for a 1990?"

Snap it up!

My 1990 Range Rover County (Moby) would command low 20's, here in Chicago.
 (In fact, the dealer asked me the last time I was there, if I might sell
it....he figurred they could sell it for ~24).  I beleive that Moby is very
special; however, she is a stock RR.

Good Luck!!!

Hank

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 7:24:36 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:Stuck Lake Tahoe/D90 Sled!

Leland,
Your two left tires were spinning because you have open diff's in the 
front and rear axles. In that situation all of the available power will go 
to the tire on the same axle with the least traction. An Air locker or 
similar locking diff will give equal traction to both wheels on the same 
axle no matter what.

The center locking diff is there because your D90 is full time 4WD. It 
allows for minor speed differences between the front and rear axles. Just 
as your open diffs in your axles allow for speed differences between the 
tires for cornering. When you lock it up it gives equal power to both 
axles with no differential action. That is why you can't leave it locked 
on tarmac, it would wind up the transmission.

Some possible reasons you slipped of the road in the corner;
You might have been traveling a wee bit to fast for the road conditions.
The standard BFG tyres, be they mud or all terrains that come on the D90's 
are a bit to wide for good snow performance. The guys at Rovers North in 
VT all change their tyres to narrow agressive treads for the winters.

Cheers
Hope this helps.
Sounds like you had some fun!

Barnett Childress
95 D90
Superwinch
OME suspension
Air lockers
Studbridge, MA.   

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: How could an ally block outweigh an iron?
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 08:10:00 EST

I don't know the specific details or weights but believe the story goes 
something like this.(perhaps our digest gurus can expand on it).
  BMW develop a small aluminium V8 in the fifties but can't afford to keep 
it in production.
 Early concerns with oil crises prompt GM to start design of aluminum 
engine.
They buy design from BMW and come up with small block Olds/Buick engine.
US steel companies get get bothered about GM making aluminum blocks and 
develop thinwall casting techniques.
Lightweight steel blocks are cheaper than aluminium.
GM sells engine design to Rover. Weslake redesigns heads and makes it into 
good engine.
1970s oil crisis comes along GM want engine back Rover says shove off.
BMW buys Rover and get their engine back after all. Steel block could be as 
light as aluminium, maybe, perhaps, possibly.
Pass the scales.

Trevor "history in a nutshell" Easton

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 06:05:57 -0700
From: Mark Murphy <Mark.Murphy@evolving.com>
Subject: Land Rover Dealers

Comments on :

Pioneer Centres, Inc.
2950 South Havana Street
Aurora, CO 80014
(303) 751-1500
(Denver Area)

1) "Pioneer Centres, Inc." now goes by "Land Rover Denver East".
   They are now one of the fancy "Land Rover Centers".

2) Bought my 1995 white 5spd Discovery in July. Excellent service
   and sales. Amedeo was my salesperson and I found his knowledge
   and attitude to be excellent.

3) For service advisor, I can highly recommend Darrell Pfluger. He 
   has always made sure I had a loaner vehicle and has has always 
   made sure the work was complete and correct (also has always 
   washed the Discovery). The other service advisor seems great, I
   can't speak directly because I have always gone with Darrell
   (recommended to me by a Range Rover owner).

4) The shop foreman, Greg Winch is factory trained and a hard core
   off-roader with a Defender 90. He and Rob (can't remember his
   last name, also a hard core off-roader with a Defender 90) have 
   always taken the time to be a) socialable, b) answer all my 
   questions (both hard and stupid questions) completely, c) done
   solid and complete work on my Discovery and d) made the extra
   preventive checks each time the vehicle was in the shop. I normally
   ask for Greg or Rob to work on my Discovery because they obviously
   do good work and to let them "get to know me and my vehicle".

   PS - Greg and Rob also make and install some Land Rover aftermarket
   equipment. Can vouch for the axe/shovel carrier for the Discovery
   spare tire. Waiting for their diff protectors.

5) Sponsor several off-road events each year, from the simple get to
   know your vehicle and dealer, to intros to 4WDing, to hard core-
   damage likely trail rides (Moab, Red Cone, etc.)

Yes, this probably sounds sugar coated but I have had excellent service
from Land Rover Denver East from the first day I walked in asking
questions.

Also residing is Denver is Bill Burke of 4 Wheel America. Bill is another
good source of Land Rover information. I have talked to him on the
phone and been on a trail ride with him and he took the time to answer
any/all questions. Bill is on the web at http://www.wizard.com/4wa if 
you would like to contact him. I will try to attend one of his off-road
classes this spring.

Mark Murphy
mmurphy@evolving.com
1995 white 5spd Discovery
  either "Ghost something" or "something Ghost" or "the Ghost"
  still waiting to learn the full name
Denver, Colorado USA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 08:11:21 EST
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Opening beer bottles

Erm am I missing something here, but are you all talking about opening
beer bottles (& drinking from them) whilst driving?
  
This is illegal in Britain, and I had assumed everywhere else in the
world. Is it really legal in the US? Is anybody actually stupid enough
to drink alcohol whilst driving?
  
My post about opening bottles was assuming you where camping for the
night, hence needing to be outside to use the bumper.
  
Am I the only person who thinks drink drivers should be shot?
  
It doesn't really matter how you opened the bottle, with or without
spilling it or breaking the windscreen if you have just mown down a
school party out for an afternoon walk because you where too pissed
(note UK slang meaning drunk, not US slang meaning angry!) to react
quickly enough to avoid them.
  
I have nothing against getting pissed and having a good time, but not
whilst driving. Don't they have drink driving laws in the US?
  
I'm pissed (US slang), Steve
  
Steve Reddock                         Product Evaluation, 26/12
Xyratex                  Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450  Int.721-4450
REDDOCK at HVTVM         Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 8:22:22 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: RE:Multi-guage for D90's?

Hello All;

I've heard about a LR triple all in one gauge, (temp, oil pressure, & 
volts), that is fitted to other non NAS spec Defenders, instead of the 
temp only gauge that comes standard on US Defenders.

Does anyone know if this is true? If so, how to get one? What would be  
involved, or how difficult the instllation would be?

Thanks,
Barnett

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 08:29:04 -0500
Subject: $$ Dealer Repairs $$

I took Annabelle (my '89 RR) to the Milwaukee Rover Dealer (Berndt Rover,
Buick, Mercedes) for the LRNA gas tank recall and to have a general check up
of the truck.  Here's the estimate: gas tank - no charge (they went ahead &
replaced it even though I just replaced the original leaky one two years ago.
I would have gotten a $360 credit if they left it alone); $990 to replace a
cracked windscreen (heated & luckily insured); $480 to replace the rear
bushings; $210 to replace the rear gate lock; $580 to replace the master
cylinder (leaked a 1/2 pint per day); $345 to replace two worn out door
insulation strips (left doors); $30 to replace two burned out turn siganal
bulbs; 2 hrs labor to fix a broken wire to the rear heated window and1hr
labor to lube & adjust parking brake cable.  All totaled, it's about 3G's.
 Wadaya think? - Tony

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 08:43:29 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Opening beer bottles

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

Erm am I missing something here, but are you all talking about opening
beer bottles (& drinking from them) whilst driving?
  
Not me. I might crack a bottle or two of Jolt though. 

Dave "Pass the stale cookies" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:53:54 +0100
From: Peter Kutschera <peter@zditr1.arcs.ac.at>
Subject: Re: Uneven braking. Strange.

Hello!
I also had this problem. To pass the (austrian eqivalent of the) MOT I
swapped the two front break drums between left and right. 

I passed the MOT, but some days later the same problem occured.

Finaly I INCREASED the gap between the break drum and the break shoes 
on the WEAKER brakeing side. Maybe the breaks got hot? 
Now the breaks works perfectly!

Hope this helps you
 Peter

-- 
Signature: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter
Landrover: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter/LR

------------------------------

From: Fraser.Young@EEC-ISD.eecal.sprint.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 08:52:00 -0500
Subject: Swaybars (Anti-Roll Bars)

Re: Message from Barnett

>Just talked to Greg Pfifer at ARB the distributor for OME suspensions. 
>Greg tells me that the sway bars on the Def 90 only tie up the axles at 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>stressing the other suspension components that remain and possibly causing 
>damage over time.

>P.S. Greg thinks that all Land Rovers produced for public sale have 
>swaybars.

Anti-Roll Bars(Swaybars in US) are not fitted as standard to Defender 90 models 
in the UK unless the optional Alloy wheels and 265 section tyres are specified.

The same applies to D110, except for models with levelled suspension when a rear
anti-roll bar is fitted (no front bar).

The D130 has anti-roll bars fitted front and rear.

There should be no risk of damage to components by removing the anti-roll bar as
all the other suspension components are the same whether anti-roll bar is fitted
or not.

Fraser Young
1973 Lightweight
1995 Defender 110 CSW

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 08:57:21 -0500 (EST)
From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens)
Subject: [1]The Land Rover Owner Dai

>Warmest regards from Costa Rica.  I currently plan to return to the office on
>January 29th.

Ah, just six more days until Bill returns!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 09:00:05 -0500
From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi)
Subject: sway bars  -  Evil menace tamed

Barnett asked about benefits of removing sway bars on offraod performance.
Isn't it possible to have your cake and eat it too, so to speak?  I thought
there were quick disconnect kits that let you use or not use the sway bars
as needed by conditions.  Does anyone know of a supplier?    -Bob

  rvirzi@gte.com             Think Globally. ===
  +1(617)466-2881                            === Act Locally!

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 08:07:44 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Stuck in Lake Tahoe

Leland Roys asks:

> in Low 4, is that normal? If so, what good is the locking diff compared
 to normal 4 wheel drive? I am guessing that I would need something like
 the detriot locker to lock up the right tires to get tracking in such
 a situation?>

It locks front to rear, not side to side. Locking axle diffs are what you 
needed in that situation, or a snow cat.

Andew Dallas suggests a limited slip in the front. The general 
consensus in the 4WD world is that they can be dangerous (sudden 
pulls to one side or the other when it engages), although 
there are those who swear by them in the front. A selectable locker 
in the front wouldn't have that problem.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:05:36 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Opening beer bottles

>Erm am I missing something here, but are you all talking about opening
>beer bottles (& drinking from them) whilst driving?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>Not me. I might crack a bottle or two of Jolt though.
>Dave "Pass the stale cookies"
There is a rather nice sticker over here:
"Dont Drink and Drive.You'll spill it..."
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 06:34:53 -0800
Subject: Re: Stuck in Lake Tahoe

On Mon, 22 Jan 96, Leland J Roys <roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com> wrote:

>>From all this fun, I do have 1 question, I guess I don't really understand
>what the locking diff of the defender does? I noticed that my 2 left tires
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>the detriot locker to lock up the right tires to get tracking in such
>a situation?

The way your full time 4x4 system works is simple (one would think that LR 
dealers would explain it to new owners ;-)).  Because of differences in road 
conditions, tire diameter, turning, etc., each tire on any car rotates at a 
slightly different speed, this causes different problems based on the type of 
drive system:

1. Two Wheel Drive:  The undriven wheels have no problem coping with this, they 
just rotate at whatever speed is required.  The driven set of wheels, however, 
need to individually adjust to the road while still being driven.  Hence, the 
differential was born.  This device has a problem, however, when one wheel loses 
traction, it spins wildly, and little or no driving force is applied to the 
wheel that has traction.  To overcome this, engineers developed 'locking' 
differentials (lock-rite, ARB, posi-traction).  In essence, these units defeat 
the differential and allow both wheels to be driven equally.  This works fine 
when the road surface is slippery and the differences in wheel speed can be 
dissipated in wheel slip, but does not under normal driving conditions.

2. Selectable Two Wheel-Four Wheel Drive:  Under normal driving conditions, 
these types of vehicles (series LRs, many other 4x4s) operate just like a two 
wheel drive car.  When the vehicle is placed into 4x4, each axle operates as it 
would in two wheel drive, with one difference.  If, for instance, the right 
front wheel starts slipping, the left front wheel would receive little or no 
driving force.  Because the engine is driving both front and rear driveshafts, 
the rear axle would still receive plenty of driving force and get the vehicle 
through.  

3.  Full-Time 4x4:  Ah, this is where it gets interesting.  As I said before, 
each wheel rotates at a different speed.  Hence, with a full-time 4x4 vehicle, 
it would follow that each driveshaft would rotate at a different speed.  If 
you're trying to power both dirveshafts on normal road conditions, something has 
to account for the difference in speed or the mechanicals are going to 'bind 
up', or want to go in opposite directions.  Basically, a differential is used 
between the front and rear axle as between each side of one axle.  Great, on 
regular road where each wheel gets about the same traction, each wheel gets 
equal torque and the onset of any sort of wheelspin is delayed appreciably.  Off 
the road, however, you've got wildly differing traction and the above described 
situation where one wheel spins.  With the center differential, not only is the 
opposite wheel not getting and driving force, neither is the entire other 
dirveshaft!  Hence, the center differential lock, which turns your full time 4x4 
vehicle into  the same drivetrain as a series vehicle ;-).

In Leyland's situation, his center differential was working fine and each axle's 
differential was working properly as well.  To eliminate the wheelspin 
experienced, he would have to put differential lockers on one or both axles.

Hope this helps, and doesn't muddle the waters more.  

Eric

P.S. For all you engineers (or physicists) out there, don't crucify me for not 
using the proper terminoligy (force, velocity, speed, etc.), I'm trying to stay 
in layman's terms :-)

_________________________
Eric Zipkin
Bedford, NY  USA
109" V8 Hardtop
SII 109" SW  (my father's)

------------------------------

From: crash@merl.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:29:09 -0500
Subject: LR's and High Power transcievers

I did want to install my 50-by-35 watt VHF/UHF dual-bander 
in my Disco.

I called Metro West in Boston.  

They called LRNA.

LRNA called Solihull.

I got a phone call back from a guy with a British accent,
at Solihull, who did the engineering to install and test 
1000 watt (yes, 1KW) HF transmitters in Discos for the RAF.  
Apparently the RAF uses 'em as command cars for "certain 
operations".

Anyway, the scoop is to _STAY AWAY_ from any wiring harness
that's wrapped in the yellow plastic flexitube.  That's your
airbag.  He recommended at least a foot, everywhere.

Second- the ABS controller and the engine fuel injection 
control unit are under the RH (North American "passenger") 
seat, avoid that area as well.  A wiring harness from this
runs along the transmission tunnel on the RH side forward, 
avoid if possible.

Good places to mount stuff in a Disco are under the mouldings
around the wayback bins/flipdown seats.  I've got a cellphone
and the 50-35 dualbander (remote head) mounted back there,
completely hidden to even the noncasual observer, with Larsen 
through-glass antennas on the tailgate, and everything's 
copacetic except the cellphone QRMs the GPS (but that's 
probably the GPS's fault- it's a cheap GPS).

Just To Be Safe: You might want to key-up your transmitter
from a remote head whilst standing OUTSIDE the car for testing.
That way, if the airbag unit went frotzo, you won't have the
microphone driven forcibly into your nostrils.  Also, go out
in a big field and test the ABS for correct operation while 
transmitting.  Motorola publishes a good test procedure for
this sort of thing.

	Hope this helps;
	-Bill Yerazunis

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 9:44:22 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:Land Rover Dealers

>For the list on dealers

Land Rover Metro West
Rte. 9 Natick, Ma.
(508) 650-8822

Great sales and service.

Sales; Jim Pappas. Great knowledge of Land Rovers and avid enthusiast.
Service Manager; Bill Marrow. Very helpful with technical problems.

Bought new 1995 D90 from Jim, May 1995. Sale and all questions were 
handled very professionally. It took me a year to scrap up a decient 
downpayment, and finally buy. No pressure!!

Bill was a great help with a recent problem I had with a rear differential 
even though it was an after market ARB that was installed by Rovers North. 
He worked with Rovers North to help diagnose the problem, and did 
everything possible to try to help me.

I recommend them highly.
Barnett.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:42:52 +0100
From: Peter Kutschera <peter@zditr1.arcs.ac.at>
Subject: Any tips to overhaul a SIIA master brake cylinder ?

Hello!

There is a leak in the master break cylinder of my SIIA.
Staying on the pedal the pedal slowly goes down and hydraulic oil drops
over my feet. 

I got a repair kit. Any tips from the Word Wide Whisdom?

My LR is a LHD diesel with one circuit brakes. 
The master brake cylinder will be the last part of the hydraulic system 
besides the metal tubes and the reservoir I have not replaced till now.

Thanks
 Peter

P.S.: If you would like to see a sleeping room with a land rover specific 
      wallpaper have a look to my LR page!

-- 
Signature: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter
Landrover: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter/LR

------------------------------

From: crash@merl.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:39:29 -0500
Subject: second capacitor

Partially the second capacitor is to keep the system 
symmetrical (phase issue), but what I was really 
thinking of is that you might have one of those
antennas that have an inductive impedance match 
built into the base (or into a small frobulus
somewhere on the antenna coax.  "Hide-tennas" 
are infamous for this sort of thing.

Those antennas effectively "short" braid to center 
conductor, and at DC, their impedance is zero.  
So, you have to DC block both conductors, not 
just one.

Thus, two capacitors, to block DC on both
conductors.  No way can it short out now.

	-Bill Yerazunis

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 11:17:34 UT
From: "Matthew Loxton" <mloxton@msn.com>
Subject: Fire with Fire

Last week our local TV viewed a really stupid "kidnap a few Yanks" type film 
(Fire with Fire). Lots of silly dialogue (Oliver Reed?, Robert Vaughn?). 
Confused plot, lots of endless-magazine AK47 and SKS, pygmies, AND, a whole 
lot of series LR's. Some nice shots of coming, going, and passing. One shot 
shows what seems to be the steering damper hanging adrift (makes for exciting 
driving, especially along cliffs etc.)

The only bit that really peeved me was the exploding and flipped Landy. I very 
much hope that this was just camera trickery. If they actually scrapped a 
Landy for the sake of a film this cheesy, then I hope the producer incarnates 
as a hard-bodied bug living in my SIII's engine compartment.

Cheerz
Matthew Loxton			Series III, Yellow Peril @ 947 000 Km
mloxton@msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 07:09:55 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Opening beer bottles

Drinking and driving is illegal now in every state in the US, I think, but
there have always been some states that have had some quaint "rights" that
are holdovers from the wild west.  In Texas, for example, you used to be
able to drive with an "open container," as it is euphemistically called.
The catch was that if you were drunk and driving, you were fined and/or
jailed.  Allowing drinking while driving has "always" been illegal in most
states including California where at least one of the participants in this
thread lives.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California

At 08:11 23.01.96 EST, Steve Reddock wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>Erm am I missing something here, but are you all talking about opening
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 32 lines)]
>Steve Reddock                         Product Evaluation, 26/12
>Xyratex                  Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450  Int.721-4450
>REDDOCK at HVTVM         Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:01:21 -0600
From: William Owen <ib011ca@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us>
Subject:  Stuck in Lake Tahoe -Reply

The D90 has a locking center diff but open front and rear diffs.  With an
open center diff, one tire without traction would get you stuck.  With
center diff locked, equal power goes to front and rear axles and to get
stuck you must loose traction on one front and one rear tire.  That is, with
an open diff on a front or rear axle, if one wheel on the axle looses
traction, then it spins and the other wheel on that axle cannot propel the
vehicle.  
Some vehicles have limited slip (option on jeeps) or locking front and/or
rear diffs (option on Land Cruiser, Tahoe?) which help prevent this
problem.  Some people put aftermarket lockers on their axle diffs(ARB Air
Lockers are the best) to prevent this problem.  RR's have traction control
which applies the brake to teh spinning wheel and thus get power to the
other wheel.  The best solution is to make sure at you don't get into such
a situation.
Glad all turned out well.  William

------------------------------

From: DucNut@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:23:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Comparative Chevy / Buick / Rover engines

Just a note - 

As listed in the Nov. '84 Hot Rod magagine article re. Buick engine swaps:

Chevy 350 .........575lbs   26.0"w x 28"l x 28.5"h.
Buick 350 .........450lbs.   28.5"h x 30.5"l x 28.5"h
Buick 215 .........320lbs.   26.0"h x 28.0"l x 27.0"h

These weights are quoted as being "fully dressed", and I have to assume that 
dimensions are including carburetors & air cleaners.

BTW, my disco had a driveline "thunk" as described earlier...until
I_throughly_
greased the u-joints and splined slip joint in the front propshaft!? Just
coincidence,
I think not.

Oh well, lots of sleet & freezing rain in Iowa today.  have to get out &
play.

Good Luck to all - Keith Armstrong

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 07:25:42 -0800
Subject: Re: series springs

Stewart,
I just recently purchased a pair of front springs for my 109 and I don't
remember the price but if didn't seem all that bad..  Check with British
Pacific and Rovers North (I got mine at British Pacific).

Unless your springs are broken why not stay with your old ones untill you can
afford to put new springs in.  If yours are really bad, how about looking for
a used set to get you going untill you can afford a new set?  There is
probably someone in you area on the mail list with a parts car that has
usable springs (you may have to swap yours for theirs to keep their parts car
rollable).

If you go with springs designed for a different car you, remember springs are
designed for a number of variables including weight of the car, its intended
use, the softness of the ride & more.  You may change the handling of your
car in unexpected ways.

For new springs, my first choice would be for genuine or OEM to orginl specs.
 But there are some good British made springs that are high quality.
 Unfortunatly, there are also some cheap springs that wear out in no time.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: 23 Jan 96 09:55:35 EST
From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: Retrieving your stuck LR

     To all of you who delight in getting your Land Rover stuck in the snow 
     I would recommend that you add the military tow rings to your 
     vehicles. The rings on all LR as delivered are simply to secure the 
     vehicle during transportation.
     
     Installation is easy two spanners and 5 minutes work per ring pays for 
     itself the first time you have to use it. 
     
     The defender can easily take 2 at each end of the chassis rail in, the 
     disco and range rover (don't know about the new RR) can take two at 
     the rear. Front is a problem on the RR. on the Disco you can fit one 
     at the front and snake the tow rope through the small hole in the 
     right hand side of the front spoiler. The only problem there is 
     keeping the tow rope aligned through the hole or you'll probably rip 
     the spoiler off. 
     
     Looking forward to Mud season.......
     Chris browne
     95 Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:41:21 -0600 (CST)
From: "Soren Vels Christensen" <velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: Uneven braking. Closing remarks.

All

Thanks to those who responded to my question about uneven braking. I went to
inspection this morning and PASSED. Brakes are still uneven but if the
pedal is pressed slowly it isn't much. The inspector pressed it slowly to
follow the hands on the instrument. Thus stayed within the legal 20%.

Last night my brother and i broke down the front left line and flushed with
brake fluid to see if any particles were blocking the flow. We didn't find
anything. Still puzzled but no longer frustated.

Ah, well i'm probably going to switch to Girling and Automech anyway..

>Steve Reddock:
>Otherwise this could be real fun to find...
Not at 1.00 A.M. in a freezing storm the night before inspection. But with
a large thermo of coffee and a bottle of port it was bearable.

Thanks mates.
sv/aurens

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 07:44:36 -0800
From: jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (john hess)
Subject: chains and tahoe

Howdy,

With all this talk of chains, regular and grey poupon hardened, I am
wondering why?

My recollection is that most times in snow CARS may be forced to put on
chains but 4 wheel drive vehicles aren't.  I know that with my old jeep, I
drove through at least 1 hiway patrol inspection place;  they looked at the
tires without chains and let me go.

I think that when things on roads get bad enough that 4 wheel drive
vehicles need chains, the hiway patrol just closes things down.

AM I missing the point?
Are people looking for chains for mud and mendo reccon?

PS.  I was at grand auto here in davis buying a new fan belt for the mazda
when I noticed a tire chain display.  The display had a catalog and as I
flipped through it, I noticed that the company was selling chains that have
links that run not only cross tread, but length wise too.  I think that
this style is what the pewags are all about.  Correct?

jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us
from home via modem
Land-
  -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda owner!

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:52:38 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Opening beer bottles

> are holdovers from the wild west.  In Texas, for example, you used to be
> able to drive with an "open container," as it is euphemistically called.
Here's a good one. In a suburb of Cleveland, OH, the next one east of 
Cleveland Heights I think, it's against the law to eat and drive.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 07:57:16 -0800
Subject: Re: TwoDoorMobile

Mike,

TwoDoorMobile is the name I settled on for a project I'm working on.

Since I sold the livestock and stopped using my 109 two door as a farm car
(transporting hay, manure, animals, etc) I have used her mostly for
photography trips, camping as I go. Or at least in my dreams.  Reality is
that her most common use is as a car (commuting to vanpool pickup, shoping,
etc,), but she does frequently go on car camping photography trips and on
occasional Lazy Bugers off road trips (they are a group of west coast Land
Rover off road gonzo fanatics).

So, to persue my dreams as a land Rover driving large format nature
photographer, I am in the process of converting my 109 two door from a farm
car to a full fledged long range expidition car.

As a starting point, I have obtained the Dormobile specific parts from a
wrecked Dormobile.  So with pop-up top & special cabinets I have dubed my
project TwoDoorMobile.

Persuing my dreams,

TeriAnn

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk
Subject: breaking things with the transmission brake
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:03:56 UNDEFINED

>> Also rear drum handbrakes can be used as an
>> emergency brake without trashing your vehicle. The LR has NO emergency
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>so at the time, but I wonder what I would have broken had I been careening down
>a hill off-road 
>and had lost my wheel brakes.

I have tried it GENTLY to see what happened cos I am not prepared to drive 
with no way of stoppping in the case of brake failure. Mine juddered a lot (at 
50) too and I concluded that it will stop you if your life depends on it, but 
your transmission will be pretty clapped after. Very much a sacrificial 
brake!!!!!!

Maybe you're better off with the deisel - just hit the stop solenoid and watch 
the wheels all lock up on the 22:1 compression.........

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk
Subject: diesel primers
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:08:36 UNDEFINED

>This is for all you oil burners out there. Back in '83 while stuck in 
>Greenville, SC with a broken down VW (that's a story for another 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)]
>CAV also makes a dual filter unit that mounts in place of the stock 
>unit, water seperators and other items that may be of interest. If 
>anyone has specific interests just e-mail me directly.

Are the US deisels diffferent? My 90 fuel pump comes with a little handle at 
the bottom which allows you to prime it, and by slackening off the bleed screw 
on the DPS pump, to prime that too. Seems to work just fine. 

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk
Subject: Disco "frozen" in place
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:11:05 UNDEFINED

>Today the first time I started it the car did not move with normal 
>gas and the tranmission in reverse. Could not try drive (that is 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>a lot more gas that I usually need to and it moved. Any ideas of what 
>happened?

An old lorry hand told me when I got mine to NEVER leave it parked on the 
transmission brake, cos sooner or later it'll stick. Leae it in gear instead 
and only use the transmission brake when essential.

Another win for the transmission brake.......        X-b

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 11:20:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Opening beer bottles

On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Steve Reddock wrote:

> Erm am I missing something here, but are you all talking about opening
> beer bottles (& drinking from them) whilst driving?

	Or 6 oz. Coke bottles...   Anything with a crown like cap.  Don't
	recall that driving was a part of the thread, just where you 
	could open a bottle in a Series III, probably while moving
	to keep the person from cheating and using the bumper or other
	external locations.  I rather doubt that anyone here is advocating
	taking out their Land Rover and using the cup holder to hold a
	26er of Cutty Sark whilst they do 100mph down the autoroute looking
	for school children to run down. 

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk
Subject: handbrake steering
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:14:09 UNDEFINED

>Handbrake steering is basically handbrake turning.  You use the
>handbrake to lock the rear wheels and they slide, thus turning the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>great to have this rear wheel steering effect.
>Of course us series owners can do it by using wellie in 2 wd mode.

With 90s, you have to learn left foot braking and balancing it against the 
throttle to unweight the rear enough to acheive the same effect. Poor 
substitute for a proper handbrake tho.

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:18:27 UNDEFINED

>> also there are other advantages to having a handbrake which applies to 
>> different wheels than the transmission (someone posted the problems of 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>four wheels, not just two.  I have never had any trouble with a well 
>adjusted transmission brake, on or off road

Someone else that doesnt understand difflocks..........The difflock only locks 
the axles together NOT  all four wheels. So you have as much ultimate traction 
as a Peugeot 2wd pickup with lim slip diff......two wheels spin and you're 
stuffed.......

So the same applies to the transmission brake. It works via the transmission, 
so any problems here and you have the same problems iwith the brake......And 
without the diffflocked, if any wheel slips, your transmission brake is 
useless. With a cabkle operated brake working on the rear drums directly, the 
rear two wheels are ALWAYS locked (unless the cable snaps)

>Steering with the handbrake? How does that work?

Ah. I see..........

------------------------------

From: smitha@zeus.candw.lc
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:36:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [1]Warmest regards and warmer welcome

On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]

>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>>Warmest regards from Costa Rica.  I currently plan to return to the office 
on
>>January 29th.
>Ah, just six more days until Bill returns!
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>Ah, just six more days until Bill returns!
>To the eager anticipation of the welcoming committee?>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 11:33:37 EST
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Re: Opening beer bottles

*** Resending note of 23/01/96 16:20
Dixon said:
|  I rather doubt that anyone here is advocating
|  taking out their Land Rover and using the cup holder to hold a
|  26er of Cutty Sark whilst they do 100mph down the autoroute looking
|  for school children to run down.
  
I thought part of the thread was about opening beer bottles out of
the view of the police.
  
Most drinks in the UK (alcoholic or not) come in cans.  Perhaps there
should be a thread on how to open a can with one hand.  Has anybody
tried a roof bolt with really coarse thread to make a cork screw?
  
Don't mind me I'm a bit crabby as I haven't had any beer since
Friday.
  
Steve
  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 11:40:24 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Nessie Lives Again

     At last! 
     After several months up on jackstands, Will's '62 IIa is finally back 
     on it's own rubber. Nessie went through alot over the past few months. 
     New steering components, complete hydraulic system rebuild with 
     Silicon fluid, new petrol tank, new mudshields. Springs and frame, and 
     other parts painted and rustproofed. Pedal boxes painted. Heater 
     connected (just in time). Half-ass tune up. All that remains is to 
     figure out why the battery won't charge, (something to do with sitting 
     out all winter, perhaps...) and replace the bottom bolt of the dynamo 
     (also a suspect in the abovementioned caper). Somewhere down the line 
     the gearbox will come out and be sealed up. 
     
     So, this is how it went. 
     
     Saturday or Sunday night, pulled it out of the garage and tried to 
     jump start. No go. Pushed it down the alley. Popped the clutch. Turned 
     the igniton on. Rolled it some more. Got it out onto the main street, 
     which is a little steeper, and it fired up. Went around the block a 
     few times, the sticking accelerator enabled us to really test the new 
     brakes! Got back to the garage and it stalled. No problem, just use 
     Ron's SIII too push it back in. Well, the bumper didn't LOOK like it 
     was doing any damage...Sorry Ron.
     
     Monday night, did the half-crock tune-up. (Set valves, file and adjust 
     points. Ignore timing and carb setup since the car won't start) Rolled 
     down the street again, almost got it. Pulled it up to the top of the 
     largest hill we could find, and let her rip. It fired! She went 
     smoking off down the hill with all the gusto she could muster. We 
     caught up to Will and followed him home where he got it in the garage 
     without stalling. The engine had been running on its own power for at 
     least 45 minutes. Shut it off. Tried to start it again. Called it a 
     night.
     
     Cheers
     Dave "Wants a IIa" Bobeck

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:46:23 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: diesel primers

> Are the US deisels diffferent? My 90 fuel pump comes with a little handle at 
> the bottom which allows you to prime it, and by slackening off the bleed screw 
> on the DPS pump, to prime that too. Seems to work just fine. 

Sorry, I was refering to the Series Diesels with the DPA pump tha had 
two bleeder bolts to loosen for priming.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:48:36 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Opening beer bottles

>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>> are holdovers from the wild west.  In Texas, for example, you used to be
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>Here's a good one. In a suburb of Cleveland, OH, the next one east of
>Cleveland Heights I think, it's against the law to eat and drive.

OK.We cant drink and drive,or eat and drive,pretty soon we wont be
able to smoke either.Which leaves us only one other thing......
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 11:57:57 -0500
Subject: Reseller info request...

This guy posted a note to AOL several days ago offering refurbished Series II
and III for sale.  Prices seemed a bit high but you never know until you see
the quality of the offerings.  I asked for more info and this is the reply:
-----------------------------
I am located in Atlanta, GA. If you will e-mail me a fax number and a phone
number I will fax you some price sheets. Our refurbishment facilities are in
Bristol England, I usually keep 4 or 5 units in Atlanta. Most of our business
is on an order basis.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Sean Sinkule
Atlanta67@AOL.COM
Renewed Traditions
---------------------------------------
Has anyone heard of them?  Any dealings with them?  Thanks..
Gerry "Phoenix AZ High: Youdontwanttoknow" Elam

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 17:05:28 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: diesel primers

Andy ses:

>Are the US deisels diffferent? My 90 fuel pump comes with a little handle at
>the bottom which allows you to prime it, and by slackening off the bleed screw
>on the DPS pump, to prime that too. Seems to work just fine.

That's much better than the 2.25.After changing the fuel filter you have to
pump that pesky little handle,to:1)Fill the filter,until the fuel comes out
of the banjo on top,2)Pump the ****** handle until fuel comes out of the *top*
bleed screw on the dist pump,3)Guess what for the lower bleed screw,and you
still may have to loosen the spill connection on no1 injector.
Result? A sore finger from that sodding handle!
I think the Tdi is self priming.Just start up and wait for it to run smooth.
Like an erstwhile colleague of mine,who had an MG "Spridget".Came into work
one day with a bandaged finger.We asked him waht he had been doing.Changing
the oil was his reply.Why the bandaged finger?Well,if *you'd* put the new oil
in from a pump type oilcan down the dipstick tube,*you'd* have a bandaged
finger,too.He thought it a *very* good idea when we showed him the oil filler
cap on the rocker cover."Oooh what a good idea" he said."You could pour it in
there straight from the can."
And beleive me,that is true!
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:28:21 -0800
Subject: Re: $$ Dealer Repairs $$

----------------------------- Begin Original Text --------------------------

I took Annabelle (my '89 RR) to the Milwaukee Rover Dealer (Berndt Rover,
Buick, Mercedes) for the LRNA gas tank recall and to have a general check up
of the truck.  Here's the estimate: gas tank - no charge (they went ahead &
replaced it even though I just replaced the original leaky one two years ago.
I would have gotten a $360 credit if they left it alone); $990 to replace a
cracked windscreen (heated & luckily insured); $480 to replace the rear
bushings; $210 to replace the rear gate lock; $580 to replace the master
cylinder (leaked a 1/2 pint per day); $345 to replace two worn out door
insulation strips (left doors); $30 to replace two burned out turn siganal
bulbs; 2 hrs labor to fix a broken wire to the rear heated window and1hr
labor to lube & adjust parking brake cable.  All totaled, it's about 3G's.
 Wadaya think? - Tony
----------------------------- End Original Text -----------------------------

"Wadaya think?"  you asked for it...

Labour costs money.  Different places have different labour rates and
different levels of expertese.  It sounds to me like the car has not been
getting regular maintenence, you're not into doing it yourself and have just
confronted what could have been a number of little mantenence costs all
jumbled together.  

Turn signals are important safety devices that if used can save lives.  If
you can't replace burnt out turn signal lamps you might as well pay someone
to do it.  $30 is what, about 15 or 20  minutes labour?  If it includes the
price of the lamps maybe 10 minutes labour?

A master brake clinder leaking 1/2 pint a day sounds like an major safety
hazard requiring immediate attention.  If the $580 includes the price of the
master cylinder, I would guess its probably about half the price or more.
 That price would include brake fluid & bleeding the entire system.

If you think your dealer charges too much for parts & labour, try to find a
garage with lower labour rates that looks like they could do a good job
maintaining your car.  Purchase a workshop manual that you can lend them
whenever they work on your car.  Develop a relationship with them by using
them for all your RR work.  Provide them with catalogs from British Pacific &
Rover's North so they can get special parts at other than dealer's prices.

Finally cost of ownership can be less painfull if you have mantenence done as
as needed instead of waiting untill your car needs a lot of work done & try
to pay for it all at once.  

There are times I wish the US had an annual mandatory safety inspection for
cars.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:30:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Nessie Lives Again

On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Bobeck, David R. wrote:

>      Monday night, did the half-crock tune-up. (Set valves, file and adjust 
>      points. Ignore timing and carb setup since the car won't start) Rolled 
>.
	The points filed with the ever present nail clippers?  :-)  I 
	seem to recall this being one of your essential tools... :-)

>      Dave "Wants a IIa" Bobeck
>.
	Well, you solved the grille problem with the jack-all, just repeat
	the same with it in front of the wings next time... :-)  A new 
	breakfast from New England for the headlamp buckets etc and you'll
	be part way there...

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:45:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Defender tools

In a message dated 96-01-23 02:07:50 EST, you write:

>Hi David,
> > Say, can you tell me what those nuts are that hold teh valve cover down?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)]
> David
>*****************************************************************************
*
>	OK kids, these puzzling fasteners are not as puzzling as you think. they
>are simple 10mm but instead of a 6 point hex, it's a 12 point pattern, so
>Are
any
>12 point, 10 mm socket will work.
>Rgds
>Mike Fredette
>D90 Phoenix, Az
> > thanks.

See David, I told you we'd get it for this one.  And oddly enough, on my
94D90, the valve cover bolt heads are 8mm, a bit smaller than Mikes.  Mike-is
yours a 95?
John.,

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:51:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: diesel primers

On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Mike Rooth wrote:

> the oil was his reply.Why the bandaged finger?Well,if *you'd* put the new oil
> in from a pump type oilcan down the dipstick tube,*you'd* have a bandaged
> finger,too.

	Haven't they invented funnels yet in the UK, or is this chap heading
	for the Honours List?

> cap on the rocker cover."Oooh what a good idea" he said."You could pour it in
> there straight from the can."

	How'd he get the oil out of the engine?  Remove filter, run 
	engine until it was all pumped out?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:40:05 -0700 (MST)
From: Tebbin Salvesen <tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us>
Subject: re:: Swaybars; Evil menace or not?

On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, John Brabyn wrote:
excellent observation! by the way if your going to "throw away" your sway
bars i'd love to put them on my 87! > 
> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> Barnett Childress penned the immortal words:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 30 lines)]
> John Brabyn
> 89RR

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:52:41 -0700 (MST)
From: Tebbin Salvesen <tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us>
Subject: Re: Used rangies

On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 Inkornoink@aol.com wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> Yesterday, you mentioned:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)]
> Good Luck!!!
> Hank

ill second that Idont think id sell my 87 for that he's a very loyal
member of the family!

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:06:40 -0800
Subject: Drinking and Driving

On the current thread about opening beer bottles within the confines of your 
Rover:

Yes, every State in the U.S. has laws (enforced differently) against drinking 
and driving.  It used to be (10 years ago or more) that many cops would just 
park you on the side of the road and take your keys or drive you home.  They'd 
even come back later to check on you!  This led to widespread abuse and the 
current slate of stronger laws against drinking and driving.

Drinking and driving have no place together, especially among Rover owners!
Enjoy your drinking afterwards, I have seen too many people's lives destroyed by 
such activity.  'nuf said.

Eric

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:06:56 -0800
Subject: Air Bags

On the current thread about air bags:

In many situations faced by off road drivers, air bags are DANGEROUS!  I work in 
a Fire Department/Ambulance Corps. and have had ample opportunity to work with 
airbags both deployed and undeployed.  A few things you should keep in mind.

1.  Air bags deply with extreme force:  over 100mph with a pressure of 7psi.  As 
a comparison, exploding a stick of dynamite in an average closed room (no 
windows) will only pressurize it to 2psi.  Avoid having anything hard in the 
deployment range of an airbag (GPS, radios, tools, cell phone, etc.) or it will 
be impailed on you.

2.  The chemical reaction used to deploy aibags is extremely toxic.  The 
chemical used is classified as a class C explosive by the U.S. DOT.  Although 
the powder used on the air bag is non-toxic (corn starch), the by-products of 
the explosion are (sodium hydroxide, I think)!  A small filter on the activation 
unit is the only barrier against these toxins, toxins that can easily overcome 
you in a closed vehicle.  In the event of an air bag deployment, ventilate the 
vehicle immediately.

3. Air bags can deploy up to 30 minutes after the battery of a vehicle has been 
disconnected.  The only way to avoid this is to disconnect both battery leads 
and touch them together (on the Grand Cherokee this won't even work as it is 
self contained), thereby draining the capacitor which powers the air bag.  If 
your vehicle gets stuck, be aware of this, the air bag could deploy while you're 
trying to pull it out.

4. When driving off-road, you can cause enough force to deploy the airbag so 
don't assume that it won't just beacuse you're moving slowly.

5. DO NOT put a rearward facing child seat in the passenger seat of a vehicle 
with passenger-side air bags.  The seat will be forced backwards with such 
extreme force that the occupant of that seat can be killed.  The safest place 
for such a seat is in the middle of the back seat.

Air bags are fine for normal driving (although a properly worn seat belt will 
probably protect you from most anything sane).  Off road, where vehicles are 
yanked and bashed and serviced in such positions, they can be lethal!  Use 
caution!

'nuff said.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:55:34 -0700 (MST)
From: Tebbin Salvesen <tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us>
Subject: Re: $$ Dealer Repairs $$

On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 Sanna@aol.com wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> I took Annabelle (my '89 RR) to the Milwaukee Rover Dealer (Berndt Rover,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)]
> labor to lube & adjust parking brake cable.  All totaled, it's about 3G's.
>  Wadaya think? - Tony

we call it getting "Girled" here in Ut. Heres one for you--i took my 87 in
to get the major serv. done. the dealership broke the brake fluid res. and
you cant replace it! THEY charged ME for this wonderful service "oh the
plastic was worn out"! it happens everywhere. No offence "girled" is just
a word.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:37:20 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: diesel primers

Mike Rooth writes:
snip
> pump that pesky little handle,to:1)Fill the filter,until the fuel comes out
snip
That's the purpose of the Hand Primer that I mentioned. It has a 
large plunger you can use the heel of your hand on and it mounts on 
the filter, much easier to reach.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:45:52 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: $$ Dealer Repairs $$

TeriAnn writes:
snip
> Turn signals are important safety devices that if used can save lives.  If
 you can't replace burnt out turn signal lamps you might as well pay someone
 to do it.  $30 is what, about 15 or 20  minutes labour?  If it includes the
 price of the lamps maybe 10 minutes labour?>
snip

?? Garages in Canada charge $90-$120 per hour? Now I remember why I 
do all my own work.

The prices Tony listed seem steep to me, unless RR parts are *very* 
expensive.

> There are times I wish the US had an annual mandatory safety inspection for
 cars.>

A number of states do, VT & VA to name two. VT is strict enough that 
my lightweight wouldn't pass in '92 until I installed rear mudflaps.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:43:22 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re:NAS D90 hood release

On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 JEPurnell@aol.com wrote: [SNIP...]
> I still have my original hood release cable, and I think I have about 2 
> more "releases" to go before the thing snaps. ... I have to open the 
> bonnet judiciously. 

How do you know that the cable is about to break? Does it get *harder* to 
pull the hood release? (hard to imagine that it could get any harder to 
release!)
Has anyone had the cable replaced under warranty *before* it snapped?
Will all '94 cables eventually fail?

[when it does fail, then you get to respond to the people who advise you 
that it looks like your hood isn't latched (you know the way the D90 hood 
looks): "Oh but it IS latched, and in fact there is no way to UNLATCH it."]

-David 

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 13:57:25 -0500
Subject: Re: $$ Dealer Repairs $$

>>the dealership broke the brake fluid res. and
you cant replace it!

So...  whadthey charge you?  Was it a $580 job to redo the master cylinder?
 Basically, I got the same story.  The resevoir leaks, but it can only be
replaced as a complete "unit" with the master cylinder.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 14:15:20 EST
From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins)
Subject: Re: Air Bags

>In many situations faced by off road drivers, air bags are DANGEROUS!  I work
<Snip>
>4. When driving off-road, you can cause enough force to deploy the airbag so
>don't assume that it won't just beacuse you're moving slowly.

<snip>

>Air bags are fine for normal driving (although a properly worn seat belt will
probably protect you from most anything sane).  Off road, where vehicles are
yanked and bashed and serviced in such positions, they can be lethal!  Use
>caution!
>'nuff said.
>4. When driving off-road, you can cause enough force to deploy the airbag so

Eric,

Before you joined the list in late November, there were several lengthy
discussions regarding airbags, and the topics covered included accidental
deployment.  The general gist of which was that Rover dealt with the issue
by including adequate safeguards, and that any circumstance which actuated
the airbag did indeed warrent it's deployment.  I saw no evidence cited for
the accidental deployment due to off road use, and I would certainly
believe that this exploder population would see it as the population is
heavily slanted towards "reall offroaders".  Newsgroups which I read
frequently, such as misc.emerg-services, as well as alt.engr.explosives
have dealt with the issue of accidental deployment and the only example
cited of a false positive was during the use of the "jaws of life" to
extract a victim.

Force is not the sole initiator of an air-bag.  The sensors used include
accelerometers.  These sensors inherently do not generate/respond to the
types of false positives most people assume will trigger air bags when off
road.  Accelerometers attempt to model the speed that the occupant has
developed relative to the fore/aft axis of the car.  Thus, off axis crashes
do not cause deployment.  Btw, the off axis problem is why most comments I
have seen describe the stiffness of brush bars as a feature in the
deployment of airbags, not a problem.

Btw, even a properly fitted seatbelt is ineffective when dealing with women
whose shorter torso's cause them to be closer to the steering column.  The
play
in the inertial reel and the seatbelt itself can result in face plants on
the steering wheel, although it is still critical in keeping them in the
protected area of the vehicle.  The air bag can help, if it deploys quickly
enough, with the faceplant.

imho,ymmv

ttfn

Tom Des Jardins, Inbound Technology Group
FORE Systems (412)635-3374  FAX 635-3333 url http://www.fore.com
5800 Corporate Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15237-5829

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 11:25:01 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: $$ Dealer Repairs $$

On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Tom Rowe wrote:

> The prices Tony listed seem steep to me, unless RR parts are *very* 
> expensive.

Bingo.  

Walt Swain
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover              * 
              * Davis, California       | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 13:44:24 -0600
Subject: FW: Aluminum to Steel fasterners

Hi all,

When I get to reassembling my IIa, whats the best way to join the various   
aluminum to steel pieces? unfortunatly, I'm finding quite a bit of   
aluminum corrosion in my project so far - the mudshield mounts on the top   
inside of the wings, around floor holes, etc. I'd like to stop this and   
make sure it doesn't start again.

thanks,

tim
 ---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:26:37 +0000
From: Kevan Shaw <kevan@krshaw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Singapore Land Rovers

I have just returned from a week in Singapore (working, not holiday!) and,
as I have been trying to persuade my friends there to buy a Landie went to
have a look at one. It was a series 2A diesel SWBof unknown vintage but
probably pre '65, it went ok but took ages to start, was smoking, blowing
fumes from the oil filler and all the pedals were at the limits of their
travel. I looked very good having been nicely painted in maroon with lots
of bits of chequer plate in the load bay footwells etc and had a cut down
tilt providing a roof (all that is really required in that climate! asking
price? Sing. Dollars 20,000 that is about uk=A3 9000.! they have a brutal ca=
r
tax system involving a thing called COE ( Certificate of Enitilement) which
accounts for a fair whack of the price, I have been told that this price is
about the cheapest you can get any moving vehicle for but still!!

There was also a series 3  diesel SWB which had spent most of its life
towing things, it had a Salisbury axle a double front bumper and showed
signs of several colours of green under its present off white paint so I
suspect is ex  military but this does not show on the record. It also has
no heater or even provision for same, no hole in the wing and a horizontal
air filter where the heater core and fan should be. Also there was a
battery shaped drop in the cubby under the passenger seat and an extra
cubby under the centre seat, anyone any idea about origins of this one? I
suggested my friend went back to see this one when it was fixed up as the
series 2 looked to me like a money pit!

regards

Kevan Shaw

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:27:12 -0500
Subject: Gas Tank Needed

Anybody have a good used fuel tank????? I need to replace the one on my 68
lla..                                  Thanks       Steve Bradke 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:43:41 -0600
From: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu (Arnold Yoon)
Subject: Trails in Hawaii

Hmmm.......Sorry to be posting this if it's come up before....But a newly
made acquaintance here in town who has a  '71 IIa told me a great
story.....A fellow he knows was visiting an area in Hawaii where there was
an "innocent-looking" trail head with a amusing little sign, that said
something like: "Further Access Prohibited except by Land Rover/Range
Rover"  Not only was there a sign, but a guard and gate to prohibit other
vehicles from entering!  God.......could someone steal that for me?
Please?  I really need one!!  *laugh*  Long Live LR!

Arnold Yoon
University of Wisconsin - Madison
E-Mail: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu
Voice: (608) 259-9936

GO DISCO!!!
1995 Land Rover Discovery
"Four Wheel Drive Exemplified"

 

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 23 Jan 96 15:54:03 EST
Subject: Re: FW: Aluminum to Steel fasterners

>Hi all,

>When I get to reassembling my IIa, whats the best way to join the various   
>aluminum to steel pieces? unfortunatly, I'm finding quite a bit of   
>aluminum corrosion in my project so far - the mudshield mounts on the top   
>inside of the wings, around floor holes, etc. I'd like to stop this and   
>make sure it doesn't start again.

Actually, this is why Rover used sealstrip on a lot of the connections for 
things - to try and break the battery effect.

I've been wondering if a good application of a dielectric grease (silicone 
grease or the like) might be a good idea in these cases. I'm doing it now, but 
anybody got any long-term guesses on the idea?

     Alan

------------------------------

From: Marit & Bjornung <bjjen13b@telepost.no>
Subject: RR 1990-1991ECU (ABS/Traction Control)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:32:44 +-100

A while ago Alan Hood speculated about a possible convertion to traction 
control. I'm afraid a bit more is involved than swapping only the ECU. An 
additional valve block is added to the ABS valve block and some other minor 
modifications have been done.

Bjornung
Norway

------------------------------

From: Simon Barclay <sbar@jna.com.au>
Subject: Re: Opening beer bottles
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 08:42:00 EST

 -
>Erm am I missing something here, but are you all talking about opening
>beer bottles (& drinking from them) whilst driving?
         [ truncated by lro-lite (was 6 lines)]

There was a time in the not too distant past where distances here in the Oz. 
Outback were measured in the number of beers you drank between two (or more) 
points!

For example;

"G'day, ow far from Birdsville to Bedourie mate? 'bout 20 stubbies mate!"

 - so assuming the average consumption per hour was 4 stubbies (@375ml - 
can't remember how many Ozs that is) the trip will take about 5 hours, which 
in this case is about right as it is approximately 450Kms north through the 
fringes of the Simpson desert.  But fear not, there are no groups of school 
kids out for an afternoon walk - this area is so arid there's pretty much 
nothing, bar a lot of sand!

Often they thoughtfully leave the empties discarded on the side of the track 
so that any vehicle following later can accurately judge their distance from 
the starting point by how many empty bottles they pass.  Convenient!

(Apologies to any Queenslanders who still use this tried an true gauge of 
distance!)

Simon Barclay
Sydney Australia

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 13:59:31 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: OVLR's Business Venture (was: Reseller info request...)

Gerry Elam <GElam30092@aol.com> wrote:
:This guy posted a note to AOL several days ago offering refurbished Series II
:and III for sale.  Prices seemed a bit high but you never know until you see
:the quality of the offerings.  I asked for more info and this is the reply:
:-----------------------------
:  I am located in Atlanta, GA. If you will e-mail me a fax number and a phone
:  number I will fax you some price sheets. Our refurbishment facilities are in
:  Bristol England, I usually keep 4 or 5 units in Atlanta. Most of our business
:  is on an order basis.
:
:  I look forward to hearing from you.
:
:  Sean Sinkule
:  Atlanta67@AOL.COM
:  Renewed Traditions
:---------------------------------------
:Has anyone heard of them?  Any dealings with them?  Thanks..
:Gerry "Phoenix AZ High: Youdontwanttoknow" Elam

 Just got off the phone with Sean, and received his faxed offering.  Sean
 sounds real knowledgable about Land Rovers, all of their variants and
 options, and his vehicles appear to be a good value, especially in
 comparison to the new Land Rover Defender prices.  Renewed Traditions can
 take a pre '71 and restore it with a coil chassis, TDi engine, Defender
 body, etc for much less.  If I wasn't already committed to resuscitating
 Rumpole, I'd be VERY tempted.

 PS--  They must be the corporate arm of the OVLR's business ventures deep
 into the south of the United States, taking advantage of us silly Yanks.
 Either that, or they are the source where OVLR plagiarized their "neeto"
 logo-masthead from! (Just kidding Dixon, NO poison quills... pleeeeeze :)

 Regards,

 Cheers,
                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 17:30:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: OVLR's Business Venture (was: Reseller info request...)

On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Michael Carradine wrote:

>  PS--  They must be the corporate arm of the OVLR's business ventures deep
>  into the south of the United States, taking advantage of us silly Yanks.

	Caught!  We only want the stuff between 25 and 15 years old... :-) 
	BTW, got a phone number?  :-)

>  Either that, or they are the source where OVLR plagiarized their "neeto"
>  logo-masthead from! (Just kidding Dixon, NO poison quills... pleeeeeze :)

	Depends when they got started.  We've been using ours since 1982
	and variants were around in the ALROC days from 1974.  Concise
	(out of Vancouver) swipped ours (They have used it in past adverts
	in the Aluminium Workhorse & Concise gets, or got our newsletter).  

	Rgds,

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 07:01:26 +0800 (WST)
From: TONY YATES <tonyy@BoM.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: your mail

On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 azw@aber.ac.uk wrote:

> >Steering with the handbrake? How does that work?
> Ah. I see..........

No. I don't think you do.  Any idiot can do a handbrake turn. Having 
grown out of such irresponsible behaviour years ago I thought this might 
be something clever.....Silly me.

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 23 Jan 96 16:20:01 MST
Subject: Painting galvanized trim.

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
Tim asks about painting the galv. trim black...

I'd suggest IF you're going to paint it, why not the same color as
the body? That's what Defenders have...

I'm going to be doing a frame-up restoration on a 109, and am
considering doing this (painting galv. trim same as body color).

Any comments on what (if anything) it will do to the value or
salability of the 109?

Thanks, Dave Brown (churning through old digests, trying to catch up.)

#=======#         _________           We make a living by what we get,
|__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
| _|  |   |_ |}  \__/-\_|__/-\_|}
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill

------------------------------

From: smitha@zeus.candw.lc
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:43:08 -0500
Subject: Re: diesel primers

>I think the Tdi is self priming.Just start up and wait for it to run smooth.

>Although I haven't seen this in the owner's manual, it does need priming. 
There is a bleed screw on the top of the fuel filter casing head, and and a 
priming lever etc. Haynes describes an additional procedure involving the pump 
if there is too much air in the system for the filter and priming lever 
option. What isn't clear to me is this: priming is certainly needed after 
disconnecting something on the Tdi fuel system. Is it allways necessary if you 
run out of fuel?  
Allan Smith
300Tdi 90
St. Lucia
>Although I haven't seen this in the owner's manual, it does need priming. 

------------------------------

From: smitha@zeus.candw.lc
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:44:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Running Tdis in the US

> Just got off the phone with Sean, and received his faxed offering.  Sean
> sounds real knowledgable about Land Rovers, all of their variants and
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> body, etc for much less.  If I wasn't already committed to resuscitating
> Rumpole, I'd be VERY tempted.
Does this mean that you can import a Tdi into the US? I had understood that 
you couldn't, or does it vary by State? I would be very interested to know.
Allan Smith
300Tdi 90
St. Lucia

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:08:12 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: OVLR's Business Venture (was: Reseller info request...)

On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Michael Carradine wrote:

>  Just got off the phone with Sean, and received his faxed offering.  Sean
>  sounds real knowledgable about Land Rovers, all of their variants and
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>  body, etc for much less.  If I wasn't already committed to resuscitating
>  Rumpole, I'd be VERY tempted.

I've thought this would be a possible ploy to get the functional,
structural and visual equivalent of a Defender 110 into the
land-of-the-free, but I can't help wondering what is left of the donor
vehicle?  Aside from the VIN plate, of course. 

Walt 
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover              * 
              * Davis, California       | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:35:04 -0500
Subject: Fuel tank needed

does anyone on the list have a good used fuel tank for a lla available?? at
 $279 for an orig one I'd like to locate a used one if I can... Rgds  Steve
Bradke

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:52:03
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: Re: diesel primers...TURNING GREEN!

Try doing this in 6-8' seas while slumped over a VERY hot and angry VOLVO 
diesel that has just sucked up a pint or two of diesel/sludgewater that was 
in the bottom of the tank that you just bought from that shiny yuppie marina 
in Annapolis that was convenient because you had a bunch of guests and didn't 
want to waste time going to the place where you know they sold the GOOD 
diesel.
Bill Adams
3Dmentia computer animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington, MD 20895
301-949-9475

'66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel  ...all there

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 20:00:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Disco "frozen" in place...and parking brakes

In a message dated 96-01-23 11:37:29 EST, you write:

>An old lorry hand told me when I got mine to NEVER leave it parked on the 
>transmission brake, cos sooner or later it'll stick. Leae it in gear instead

>and only use the transmission brake when essential.

And to confound matters, in the snow belt here in midwest, it has always been
tenet that you use the emergency brake (cable operated drum type, older rear
drive conventional car type ) always or never, because of the corrosion that
builds up on the directors and pulleys that will eventually snap the cable
unless kept in constant use.

John..  

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 23 Jan 96 20:34:12 EST
Subject: Renewed Traditions

Sean,
    As you probably know by now, your name and business were distributed on the
Land Rover Owner list on the internet today. I was quite shocked to find out
that a business such as yours was operating in Atlanta. I know of several people
in the atlanta area that are looking for series rovers. I would be very
interested in getting some information from you about your vehicles. I can be
reached at the number below most days and evenings.

Rob Dennis
  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise"
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     |/\|           |/\|

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 23-Jan-1996

------------------------------

From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 20:41:45 -0500
Subject: Metamorphosis

To all:

Although I am about to unsubscribe from the list, it is only that I am
moving.  I leave aol for faster and cheaper pastures at IDT.  My new e-mail
address is dunsmo19@us.net

Happy trails!

Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, MD USA 21020
Formerly NADdMD@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 17:57:11 -0800
Subject: Re: Opening beer bottles
From: Hugo Madden <madhugo@best.com>

>OK.We cant drink and drive,or eat and drive,pretty soon we wont be
>able to smoke either.Which leaves us only one other thing......
>Cheers
>Mike Rooth

You're in the wrong newsgroup.  The one you want is alt.sex.fetish.4wd.  
Check it out!

                                                        _______
                                                       //_/_|__\___
                                                       \_ - ___ - _d 
                                                         (o)   (o)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:23:00 +0000
From: Dave White <davew@landie.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

>   |     |   ###   |     |      
>   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise"
>   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
>  [_______________________]
>     |\/|           |\/|

> You'll get better traction with this tire pattern:
>     I/\I           I/\I
>   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover

>Couldn't resist
>     I/\I           I/\I

>Cheers!
>Yves
>'63 109 2 door 2 tops 10 radios
>  [_______________________]

>Yves Albert (Al "Al") Feder

Yves,
That may be the case for a short time however your tread pattern would clog
up with mud and lose traction - I prefer the original...

Hey! if you can't resist - neither can I :-)
    |\/|           |\/|    every time.

----------------------------------------------------
Dave White.
'72 SWB SIII V8 Auto R/R Chassis and running gear.
'89 Range Rover
Yorkshire Rover Owners Club UK

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 20:57:34 -0500
Subject: Re: How could an ally block outweigh an iron?

Rover V8 folklore from Trevor Easton:
> Early concerns with oil crises prompt GM to start design of aluminum 
>engine.
>They buy design from BMW and come up with small block Olds/Buick engine.

Folklore is really interesting. If anyone has any knowledge of how this story
has developed and been handed down please pass it along. I first heard a
simpler version a year or two ago in a British mag. (possibly LRO). It is a
good story though, and I've started my own investigations.

Here is what I know. I work for GM in the building that the direct
predecessor to the Buick/Olds engines were designed, and there are still a
few folks around who started work 35 years ago when the engines were just
introduced. NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING about a BMW connection, and are very
doubtful. I've gotten the names of a couple of folks who were involved in the
actual design and development of the Buick/Olds engines and I'll try to talk
to them.

Here is what I do know so far. Work on aluminum engines had been going at GM
Engineering Staff on for much of the fifties, and a small (by American
standards) aluminum V8 had been developed. Buick and Olds needed engines for
their new 1961 "compact" cars, and decided on derivatives of the E-Staff al
V8. They didn't just use the engine as is because they had their own engine
designers. What they did agree on was a common block design with different
head designs. The Olds heads had more studs/bolts than the Buick heads
(probably because that was how they did things). The blocks were identical
except for holes for the extra head studs/bolts were drilled and taped in the
Olds block. The castings were identical. (BTW the additional studs/bolts were
the reason the '68 Repco 3 litre Formula One engine was based on the Olds
block, not the Buick.) GM produced another aluminum engine a year earlier,
the Corvair "flat six", and built an aluminum foundary at Massena, NY to cast
the Al engines.

An iron V6 was developed from the Al V8 as an alternative by deleteing two
cylinders. It and the V8 were both available in '62 and '63 and then the Al
V8 was dropped. That engine was about the same weight as the Al V8. (It wound
up being sold to Jeep, which used it in CJs, and then was sold back to GM in
the mid-70s.) The 300, 340, 350 (cubic inches) series of iron Buick V8s were
developed from the Al V8, iron V6. The increased displacement (per cylinder)
of the iron engines was obtained by increasing the bore since the iron
engines didn't need seperate iron sleeves. The bore center stayed the same as
the Al V8. The stroke was also increased (needs verification). Many parts
were interchangable between the Al V8 and the iron V8. I've heard that the
'64 iron V8 had the Al heads from the Al V8.

As far as GM trying to buy the engine back, I've read those stories in
connection with the "V8 Vega" project. The claim is that GM inquired about
buying complete engines, and Rovers price was way too high. The little bit
that I know about this is that in the early '70s a technician named Dan
Lagrue at GM E-Staff put a V8 in a Vega, and there is a complicated tale
about how the car had to be hidden to keep it from being scrapped. Dan
started selling conversion kits for Buick V8s in Vegas, and also acquired a
lot of Buick V8s (a barn full is the usual description). I don't know if Dan
is doing anything with Buick V8s these days, but he still has engines for
sale. I can get a phone number if anyone is interested.

Finally, the BMW V8 was a very low production, expensive engine and I have my
personal doubts if anybody would have used the design directly at high
production rates for a relatively inexpensive car.
 
I don't have a Rover V8 but I did learn to drive in a '61 Buick Special with
the Al V8, and also changed the head gaskets twice. It was one of the nicest
running engines we ever had.

One more note: When comparing engine weights be very careful that the engines
are comparable with the same "dress" and same fluids. Even within a single
engineering organization comparisons are dangerous unless you know the
details behind the weights.

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:12:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Fuel tank needed

>  does anyone on the list have a good used fuel tank for a lla
 >  available?? at $279 for an orig one I'd like to locate a used one
>   if I can... Rgds  Steve Bradke

Steve,
British Pacific carries a high quality aftermarket front tank for just under
US$159 last time I looked.  I have two,  I got one from LR Supermarket in
Liverpool about 3 years ago and bought one from BP a few months ago.  It was
cheaper than I could import one from the UK.    it doesn't look stock, but it
fits correctly & so far seems very high quality.

On the other hand If your near Monterey bay, I have an original front tank
for the taking.  It needs the filler & vent tubes rewelded but had no leaks
when I removed it.  

TeriAnn

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 23 Jan 96 21:19:14 EST
Subject: Re: Renewed Traditions

Oops, wrong button.

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 23-Jan-1996

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:53:43 -0500
Subject: Re: FW: Aluminum to Steel fasterners

>When I get to reassembling my IIa, whats the best way to join the various   
>aluminum to steel pieces? unfortunatly, I'm finding quite a bit of   
>aluminum corrosion in my project so far

Electrically isolate/insulate steel and Al wherever possible. Steel and Al
make a decent battery, particularlly with salt water as the electrolyte. Use
sealer between dissimilar parts where possible, and put a dab on the
fasteners. Also paint the fasteners. I watched a couple of Ford engineers
examining RRs for corrosion at a ROAM meet last fall, and they commented that
painted fasteners really helped prevent galvanic corrosion as long as the
paint was intact.

Another idea is keep things dry where possible. Use Waxoyl or the like (not
black tar undercoater) liberally on the fasterners.

David Cockey

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:38:13 -0800
From: jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (john hess)
Subject: uneven braking

To go along with the theory of unequal brake cylinders, check out the
flexible brake lines: see if they have different INSIDE diameters.  Believe
it or not, this will lead to nearly the same problem.  Brakes first grab on
one side, but then braking is even after that initial pull to the right or
left.

Took my tiger guru awhile to track down that problem!

cheers,

jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us
from home via modem
Land-
  -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda owner!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:34:09 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: similarities (or 6 degrees of seperation)

> > BTW there seems to be a greater overlap in interests than just
> > Landrovers. I owned 3 Hobiecats, one 14( named "Purple Turtle" sailnr

> I used to teach sailing (mainly Wayfarers, but several other dingies as 

I have a very good friend and colleague who is a sailor (working on prepping 
his boat for a circum-nav).  (His wife works at West marine (boating supply 
store) and they sold their house to buy the boat.)  We enjoy working together 
because we can then chit-chat about new gear, ways of stowing stuff, etc.  
It's amazing how much similarity there is in preparing for a LR expedition as 
there is for a sailing expedition.

And I love cats.  (Never been owned by one, just borrowed.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:48:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Air Bags

>Btw, even a properly fitted seatbelt is ineffective when dealing with women
whose shorter torso's cause them to be closer to the steering column.  The
play in the inertial reel and the seatbelt itself can result in face plants
on
the steering wheel, although it is still critical in keeping them in the
protected area of the vehicle.  The air bag can help, if it deploys quickly
enough, with the faceplant.

Short torso women need to sit as far back as possible in an airbag equipped
vehicle as well as one with out airbags. The very rapid deployment of an
airbag is very hazardous to anyone sitting too close to the wheel.

Davie Cockey

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:56:35 -0800
From: marick@nwlink.com (Rick Harrison)
Subject: 109 For sale

I sent this message to 'lro mailing list' to see if there was any interest 
in my 109.
I really don't know what the market is for a vehicle like this but I have a 
LOT of hours into it. 
The story reads like this:

Series III 109 Military, 12V, NATO (flat) green, Frame off Rebuild over 
winter '92/'93, 
Chevy 250 six, HEI ignition, Late IIA Gearbox (the one that can take it),  3.54 
Salisbury rear axle, Range rover 3.54 Front, Selectro Frewheel hubs, Oil 
cooler, 
Full length Hard top w/side windows and tropical skin (winter), MOD Roll bar 
and 
Full length Canvas (w/o windows, for summer), Tailgate and full length rear 
door, 
Military suspension, Reinforced front axle housing, 19 gallon fuel tank in 
the rear 
(outside fill), 8000Lb. 2 speed winch, Bull bar, 90% BFG Mud Terrains, AM/FM 
Cassette, No motor mount location changes were done for the engine conversion 
so it could easily be converted back to 2-1/4 engine. (I even saved the core 
support)
Garaged, Absolutely no rust anywhere, Smooth running, tight Land Rover and 
excellent off road (except in those pesky tight spots where the 109 turning 
circle 
shows up.), Only about 10k miles since the rebuild. 
Located in Everett, Washington (Seattle Metro area)

I had responses from a few people and two people came out and looked at it. 
One liked it a lot but didn't have the money, the other I don't think it's 
really what 
he wants. (both were from this area so no guilt about wasted travel days, etc.)
Whats a reasonable price? Where to advertise? Has anybody sold a LR thru 
Hemmings?

I have built several of these over the years, so I know what I'm doing. I 
really want to move 
this down the road so I can get started on my next project. 
Any kind of help or advice on vehicle selling on the 'web' would be good.

Rick Harrison, 
marick@nwlink.com

------------------------------

From: ofiara@albany.net
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 23:02:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Exxel synthetic oil

  Dixon:  I sent this letter to directly to your e-mail address last week. I
may have botched your address, so you may have not received this
communication.  So, I am sending this directly to the list.
                                                Dave Ofiara

        Sat, 20 Jan 1996 20:20:20
>To: dkenner@emr1.emr.ca
>From: ofiara@albany.net
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>        Dixon:
>                Right now I am holding a 1/2 gallon container of Exxel gear
lube.  The name of the company is Thermal-Lube Inc. at 1130 Claire Crescent,
Lachine, Quebec,  Canada H8S1A1.  They sell a variety of synthetic
lubricants under the name EXXEL.  The stuff I am looking at right now is
EXXEL Gear Lube XL-835 with teflon,  synthetic 80W90W140W polyon.
>        The label  goes on to state that the lubricant contains "molybdenum
additive, also PTFE resin, one of the slipperiest substances known to man,
which reduces and virtually eliminates wear, formulated with a clinging
substance to form a protective film on all metal surfaces."
>        Unlike Castrol synthetic gear lube this substance is heavier,
stringy, and clingy.  Its the mozzarella of synthetic gear lubes.
>        When I purchased my '72 Series III SWB in 1987, the tranny (a very
early 1960ish series IIA transplant) groaned on pavement when starting to
move and with the front wheels turned to the left or right.  Something was
wrong.  I immediately put this Exxel synthetic in the tranny and transfer
box.  The noise and groaning went away immediately.  That was 8 years ago. I
love my transmission, nothing has acted up since! I'm down to my last quart
of the stuff. Of course, I can purchase other synthetics in the States.  In
fact I use Castrol synthetics in my other cars' transmissions.  However, I
feel that the Canadian product is superior, and that's what the Rover gets.

>        Dixon, if you or any of your Montreal contacts can help I certainly
would appreciate it. Please post to the list or e-mail me at
<ofiara@albany.net> or call collect at (518) 587-7944.
>        Please confirm receipt of this communication.  Your assistance will
be greatly appreciated.
>                                         Dave Ofiara
>        Please confirm receipt of this communication.  Your assistance will
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 28 lines)]
>>	more information could be useful.  We do have some Mtl. members.
>>	Rgds,
>>	Dixon

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 23 Jan 96 22:54:37 EST
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

---------------------------  snip  ------------------------------
>> Yves,
That may be the case for a short time however your tread pattern would clog
up with mud and lose traction - I prefer the original...

Hey! if you can't resist - neither can I :-)
    |\/|           |\/|    every time.

----------------------------------------------------
Dave White.
'72 SWB SIII V8 Auto R/R Chassis and running gear.
'89 Range Rover
Yorkshire Rover Owners Club UK <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------

OK Guys how about some XCL's
  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise"
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 23-Jan-1996

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 20:20:01 -0800
Subject: Re: Opening beer bottles

----------------------------- Begin Original Text --------------------------

>OK.We cant drink and drive,or eat and drive,pretty soon we wont be
>able to smoke either.Which leaves us only one other thing......
>Cheers
>Mike Rooth
You're in the wrong newsgroup.  The one you want is alt.sex.fetish.4wd.  
Check it out!
----------------------------- End Original Text -----------------------------

Oh Oh! we've been here & done this before.  Please let Mike be. Least a new
set of flame wars erupt that once again divide people across the Atlantic.

Mike has his way of writing and his own "rich" set of metaphores.  He's not
going to change.  All we would have are unresolved flame wars jaming nodes
world wide.

Please, peace.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 20:21:05
From: dlague@gnn.com (Dick Lague)
Subject: Re: $$ Dealer Repairs $$

Prices like that make me feel blessed to be relatively handy around 
most vehicles.
dl
>Date:	Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:28:21 -0800
>From:	TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> --------------------------
>I took Annabelle (my '89 RR) to the Milwaukee Rover Dealer (Berndt 
Rover,
>Buick, Mercedes) for the LRNA gas tank recall and to have a 
general check
> up
>of the truck.  Here's the estimate: gas tank - no charge (they 
went ahead &
>replaced it even though I just replaced the original leaky one two 
years
> ago.
>I would have gotten a $360 credit if they left it alone); $990 to replace a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 49 lines)]
>There are times I wish the US had an annual mandatory safety inspection for
>cars.
>TeriAnn

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Air Bags
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 20:45:12 -0800

>From: 	ericz@cloud9.net[SMTP:ericz@cloud9.net]
> <snip>
> 4. When driving off-road, you can cause enough force to deploy the airbag 
so 
>don't assume that it won't just beacuse you're moving slowly.
Do you have some information (other than conjecture) to back this up? Most 
air bag deployment movies I've seen (the crash test dummy types) show the 
front of the car crumpling pretty severly before the air bag fires. 
>Air bags are fine for normal driving (although a properly worn seat belt 
> <snip>
will 
>probably protect you from most anything sane).  Off road, where vehicles 
are 
>yanked and bashed and serviced in such positions, they can be lethal!  Use 
>caution!
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>'nuff said.
>Eric
While driving with an explosive device inches from my face is unnerving 
enough, I think the LR airbag system is safe enough to drive off-road under 
most conditions. My impression is that you have to pretty much have to hit 
something hard enough (and along the correct axis) to crush the front of the 
car to the front axle before the air bag will deploy (malfunctions 
notwithstanding). Note, I haven't personally been a crash-test dummy so I 
can't speak from the first person on this :-) OTOH I have bashed the front 
of my Disco on a mogul course enough to dent the brush bar and still have 
air-bag in-tact. I'd say that this was "crazier" than I'd ever be on a 
trail.

Bottom line: (IMHO) under normal (even severe) off-road conditions, I doubt 
that you have to worry about hitting a bump and launching the air-bag. If 
the air bag does come out, you've undoubtedly got bigger problems to worry 
about (like recovering yourself and the Disco from the bottom of the ravine 
you fell into). If you have a habit of SERIOUS fender bashing, and playing 
bumper cars with your Discovery, then maybe you should be concerned.
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/         still with both air bags

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: Damp Disco
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:13:25 -0800

I was under the rear cargo area carpet and mat the other day and I noticed 
the rubber pad between the carpet and the vehicle floor was soaked with 
water! The carpet is dry to the touch, you have to lift up the pad and feel 
it. If you squeeze it, water runs out like you squeezed a sponge!  

What surprised me was:

a) it was wet in the first place. I couldn't find any holes in the floor 
that would allow water to come in (except for maybe the trailer wire but it 
seems closed enough).

b) that it held water (i.e. it's an open-cell foam)

c) that the carpet was dry

I have the rubber "load space mat" in the back and I wonder if the carpet 
isn't "breathing" correctly?

Also, the fuel pump/sender & connectors (which were snug) is easy to get to 
by rolling back the carpet and undoing the access panel.

Thoughts?
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

From: slade@sisna.com
Subject: Roverworks dilemma
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 23:11:57 -0700

Ok, I'm finally starting to see some action with the company formerly known
as Roverworks (of Hyde Park, NY), and have a few options that I'm not sure
what to do with.

First, I am the proud owner of a RHD Defender bulkhead that is new and is a
Genuine part.  It is located in Hyde Park NY (USA).

Second, I am also the proud owner of a 1967 RHD European 6 cyl 109
StationWagon that is located in Doncaster, England.

Apparently those are the only 2 things that Roverworks managed to purchase
with my 15 thousand dollars.  What a bite.  I've learned some big lessons
from this.  Boy have I ever.

So, now that I've told you all how incredibally stupid I've been, I'm
attempting to avoid any more stupidity.  Futile, some would say, seeing as
how I've already purchased 2 more LR's.

The dilemma is aquiring said parts, and trying to decide if my 109 is even
worth bringing home.

Are there any list members in or around Doncaster that could do an accurate
appraisal?

Are there any east coast list members who need or want a RHD Defender
bulkhead?  Hmmm, all the D90 owners think.....  Wow, wouldn't it be neat to
have a RHD D90?  Just think of all the excerciaze you'll be forced to get.
Actually walking into the bank, parking the car and walking into MacDonalds
(or even not going, perish the thought), or reaching over to pay those road
tolls.  Gosh, just think of it!

Seriously though, I'm in Portland Oregon on the west coast of the USA which
is just about nearly 1/2 of the way around the globe from Doncaster.  It'll
be an expensive proposition to get my 109 here, so I'm trying to asses it's
value.

Granted, a 10 year project would certainly be fun, and I could pass my
present 109 down to my son, but I need to think about this realistically
and not leap before I've looked.

Any and all help would be more than appreciated.

Regards,

Michael

-Proud father, husband and Land-Rover owner-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:19:29 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Opening beer bottles

At 09:52 23.01.96 -0600, Tom Rowe wrote:

>> are holdovers from the wild west.  In Texas, for example, you used to be
>> able to drive with an "open container," as it is euphemistically called.
>Here's a good one. In a suburb of Cleveland, OH, the next one east of 
>Cleveland Heights I think, it's against the law to eat and drive.

And when I'm elected commissar it'll be against the law to yack on the phone
and drive.  How is it we suddenly (within the last 10 years) can't survive
with out a phone in the car?

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:19:24 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Retrieving your stuck LR

Military tow rings, eh?  Where does one find military tow rings other than
by doing a midnight auto parts job on the nearest fort?

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery

At 09:55 23.01.96 EST, Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com
wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>     To all of you who delight in getting your Land Rover stuck in the snow 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)]
>     Chris browne
>     95 Discovery

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 23 Jan 96 12:35:16 EST
Subject: RR Fuel Tank  (was:$$ Dealer Repairs $$)

>>  Here's the estimate: gas tank - no charge (they went ahead &
replaced it even though I just replaced the original leaky one two years ago.
I would have gotten a $360 credit if they left it alone); <<

I have been wondering about this. Are you saying that if you paid to replace
your tank, but that it was not the new *improved* tank, that they won't
reimburse you for it??? I at least got them to pay for the parts when I replaced
the original tank, but was hoping to get reimbursed for the labor too. Mine was
replaced a year ago, but I don't know if it was replaced with the new tank.
Anyone know how to tell?

Still procrastinating on the Recall

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise"
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     |/\|           |/\|

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 23-Jan-1996

------------------------------

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