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Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 01:12:02 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: LR Dealers

John sez...

-

I think Bob K. (who posted the original message) wants to buy a new Rover,
so maybe he doesn't have an owner's manual... yet...

Cheers
Mike    

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 01:12:02 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: Miscellaneous

Some salesman from Denver sez...

>Jim Pappas/ABS : thanks for elucidating on the difference in the RR and
>Disco systems... Mike Lojodice and Mark Ritter should read that and learn.
-

Eh? ABS?? Whatzat. And why would I need to learn about the differance
anyway. I own SerIIa and SerIII models.. ABS hell... thay barely got brakes
to begin with!

Some people.....

Cheers
 
Mike Loiodice
166 W. Fulton St.                  1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green     
Gloversville                       1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo
NY  12078  (USA)        7          1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue
                     #:-}>

------------------------------

Subject: Re: How to open beer bottles.
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 08:42:51 GMT
From: dlanod@iafrica.com (Donald Abbot)

> Simply put the lip of the cap on a hard edge, such as the bumper. The
> bottle should hang down, just off vertical.
> Then strike the cap with the heel of your hand. Hey presto! The cap
> comes off.    

I notice that this technique sometimes causes the lip of the bottle to be 
chipped. Also, with a drinking habit like mine, I end up with a seriously 
bruised hand.

Donald

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 01:12:32 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: Auto insurance for Land Rovers

Carol asks...

>What sort of 6 monthly costs do you fork out for Land Rover insurance?
-

I have my Land Rover (1965 IIa) and my 1979 VW Rabbit insured though
Allstate. Basic liability with full glass coverage (zero deductable on the
glass coverage). Total cost for both is about $61 US per month. 

BTW.. Allstate hasn't a clue as to what a land Rover is. They have it listed
on the policy as a 1965 Range Rover!! Now, where the hell is that Grey
Poupon....

Cheers

Mike Loiodice
166 W. Fulton St.                  1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green     
Gloversville                       1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo
NY  12078  (USA)        7          1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue
                     #:-}>

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Names
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 08:43:05 GMT
From: dlanod@iafrica.com (Donald Abbot)

Roy observes:
> I noticed that among the listmembers there are those who have given their
> LANDROVER(S) names. 
The previous owner of my SIIA named it "Matilda", from the song "Waltzing 
Matilda", as this was it's want as it drove along the road. After I had found 
that the steering drop arm was loose and had tightened it, the vehicle now 
steers perfectly. So now the name is inappropriate.

Anyway, I don't give names to anything. The Hobie cat is nameless and so is my 
cat. He knows when I call him and he just thinks of me as the person who 
controls the food.

Anon

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jan 1996 02:34:53 U
From: "Bill Wright" <Bill_Wright@cpqm.saic.com>
Subject: [1]The Land Rover Owner Dai

        Reply to:   [1]The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Warmest regards from Costa Rica.  I currently plan to return to the office on
January 29th.  If you absolutely need to contact me while I'm on vacation,
both Lynda Houston and Millie Steele have my itinerary and phone numbers.
I'll take action on your e-mail as soon as I can.
Bill
------------------------------

Date: 1/13/96 2:31 AM
From: Land-Rover-Owner@uk.stratus.co

!!! Original message was too large.
!!!
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	  Contents:
  1 johnliu@earthlink.net Fri Jan 12 02:41   30/1625  Re: Hand cranking
  2 dlanod@iafrica.com Fri Jan 12 02:45   33/1773  Re: Opening beer bottles 
  3 azw@aber.ac.uk     Fri Jan 12 03:41   29/1668  Re: D90 trip report
  4 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil Fri Jan 12 04:00   46/2934  Re: Opening
beer bottles 
  5 100670.3705@compuserve.com Fri Jan 12 03:59   39/2390  New Discovery
model? and 
  6 terje@tvnorge.no   Fri Jan 12 04:01   34/1510  Name That Piston
  7 steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com Fri Jan 12 04:24   32/1482  How to open beer
bottles.
  8 wassili@AMC.UVA.NL Fri Jan 12 04:34   47/2322  Names
  9 landrvr@blacdisc.com Fri Jan 12 06:53   48/2212  Re: Questions?
 10 michelbe@praline.net Fri Jan 12 07:11   51/2592  Re: Half-shaft snaps and 
 11 oldhaven@biddeford.com Fri Jan 12 08:14   19/1222  computer hazards
 12 Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com Fri Jan 12 08:25   46/2564  RE: LR
instructional vide
 13 barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com Fri Jan 12 08:41  
26/1150  Time to purchase Seats
 14 TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU Fri Jan 12 08:51   41/1691  Re: Block heater for
2.25
 15 PZavaletta@aol.com Fri Jan 12 09:31   26/1279  Mods to Discovery More MP
 16 douglastmain@msn.com Fri Jan 12 09:35   78/4623  Chris' Rover Questions An
 17 rvirzi@gte.com     Fri Jan 12 09:40   32/1392  Disco bumpers/air dams
 18 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com Fri Jan 12 09:48   68/2576  What
do you keep in YOUR 
 19 ib011ca@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us Fri Jan 12 09:54   20/1209  Auto insurance
for Land R
 20 galleryg@techline.com Fri Jan 12 10:09   50/3002  SAVE BIG Money on Land
Ro
 21 ib011ca@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us Fri Jan 12 10:13   31/1870  Re: LR Dealer
Disaster -R
 22 jeff@purpleshark.com Fri Jan 12 10:24   42/1993  New WWWeb pages
 23 stretch@vol.net    Fri Jan 12 10:30   22/1250  RE: Range Rover back on t
 24 stretch@vol.net    Fri Jan 12 10:30   21/1100  RE: LRNA 800 Phone Number
 25 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Fri Jan 12 10:42   35/1671  Re: What do you keep in Y
 26 burns@cisco.com    Fri Jan 12 10:47   35/1324  Re: Opening bottles (was:
 27 jcwhite3@well.com  Fri Jan 12 11:59   44/1934  Re: LR instructional vide
 28 jcwhite3@well.com  Fri Jan 12 11:59   57/2580  Re: Auto insurance for La
 29 jcwhite3@well.com  Fri Jan 12 11:59   57/2216  re:freezing discovery
 30 jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com Fri Jan 12 12:06   38/2080  RE: LR Warranty
 31 slade@teleport.com Fri Jan 12 12:10   28/1267  Re: What do you keep in Y
 32 jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com Fri Jan 12 12:20   40/2284  Loose valve
cover bolts
 33 paul@frcs.alt.za   Fri Jan 12 12:22   26/1292  Re: Opening bottles (was:
 34 Treit_Le@apprise.com Fri Jan 12 12:26   42/2685  LR Dealer Disaster
 35 GElam30092@aol.com Fri Jan 12 12:52   47/2303  Vehicle for sale....
 36 GElam30092@aol.com Fri Jan 12 12:51   25/1297  Rear/worklight
 37 Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com Fri Jan 12 13:20  
32/1702  Mail order phone numbers
 38 g@ix.netcom.com    Fri Jan 12 13:33   38/1904  Re: LR Dealer Disaster
 39 Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com Fri Jan 12 13:42   36/2058  RE:
Locking the Different
 40 barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com Fri Jan 12 13:59  
25/1241  She's back!!!
 41 ASFCO@aol.com      Fri Jan 12 14:00   38/1356  Re: Mail order phone numb
 42 GElam30092@aol.com Fri Jan 12 14:08   23/1144  88"
 43 ChrisF6724@aol.com Fri Jan 12 14:10   26/1437  RE: High lift mounting
 44 ChrisF6724@aol.com Fri Jan 12 14:10   23/1435  RE: South of the Border
 45 Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com Fri Jan 12 14:18  
34/1801  Storing Hi lifts in RR/Di
 46 matts@cacilj.caciasl.com Fri Jan 12 14:23   29/1469  Locking 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 14:10:31 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Opening beer bottles

Sorry, guys, you have me confused.  Dashboard? Bumper?  Windscreen bolts?  
Is the Series crowd getting a little plushmobiley here?  I thought *real* 
men used nothing but their teeth!
Beft regafs
P. "Gap" Hirsch
SI 107in S/W

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 14:10:43 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: UK mail order suppliers

>From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
>Subject: Mail order phone numbers
>     My itchy trigger finger successfully trashed a message from someone on 
>     the net for phone numbers of ABP/craddock etc so here goes   
clipped...     
>     Craddock - tel uk 1543 577207 fax 1543 504818 code for uk is 011 44 
>     from the USA
>     chris browne
>     brit in boston
>     95 disco. have got stuck yet, guess i am not trying hard enough. 

FWIW - I would be very careful with Craddock, have been burned badly with 
overcharging, shipping the wrong parts and delays in delivery, and have 
heard similar things from other LRO in Austria.  If somebody has 
consistently good experience with this outfit, please say so, maybe I am 
just unlucky or maybe there is a problem just with older vehicles.
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 14:10:51 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Galvanized parts, painted-over, cleaning of, methods for

Technically-minded readers,
does anybody have good advice on removing paint from galvanized parts? The 
SPO has painted over all the galvanized steel parts on the Series I Station 
Wagon (and believe me, there are many!)  Since I plan to get the vehicle 
back to original by 98 (give or take a few years) I would like to hear about 
non-damaging methods of removing the paint.  The paint is coming of in small 
flakes, BTW, and revealing nice-looking galvanized surfaces, so I assume the 
parts have not been treated "properly" before being painted, thank heavens.
Chemicals?
Intense heat (one of these mega-hairdriers)?
Anything else?
If the paint in the areas next to the galvanized parts should be damaged, it 
would not matter since I plan to have it re-painted anyway (the original RAF 
blue with grey wheels, probably).
Thanks in advance
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 08:32:28 -0500
From: hhewson@mail.erols.com (H. J. Hewson)
Subject: South of the Border

Mark Maslar asked about the availability of high octane fuel in Baja, Mex.
I've done quite a bit of driving there in my '89 RR and never had any
problems with "Magna Sin" (89 octane) available at nearly every Pemex
station. A few trips I used an octane booster with each tankful - you can
take your own or buy it at Gigante stores. The RR did just fine with the
straight 89 octane, too; no pinging or hesitation at all. I have no idea if
the engine emissions computer has any kind of octane compensation circuitry.
I do change my fuel filter more often after extended trips to Baja - I
understand there is little regulation as to the quality of storage facilities.

E-Mail me if you want to know some great places along the Pacific side and
the location of the bar that serves, without a doubt, the best margaritas in
Baja, Mexico. I have made this quest my life's work.

Harry
'89 RR (with a lime-squeezing cubby box lid)
  -Take that you beer bottle opening Series owners!  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 08:53:07 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Any reason? 

At 19:15 11.01.96 -0800, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote:
>	In my haste to type those numbers in (or was it late at night?) I
>failed to notice that they included VAT.   So subtract 17.5% from all of
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>Ben
>bens@vislab.navy.mil

No problem.  Your punishment is to be handcuffed for four hours to the
steering wheel of a Cheep Wrangler which is to be parked in front of your
nearest Land Rover dealership.  We'll all drive by, and point and laugh.

Guards!  Arrest that man!

Cheers!
John

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 12:03:13 -0500
From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas)
Subject: Re: Misc.(ABS, an old idea)

>Eh? ABS?? Whatzat. And why would I need to learn about the differance
>anyway. I own SerIIa and SerIII models.. ABS hell... thay barely got brakes
>to begin with!

Actually, Land Rover introduced a form of antilock braking system back in
the late forties
which deployed air pockets in the brake lines maintained by calibrated
"leaks" around the 
seals and pipe unions.  This forces the operator to pump the pedal 4 to 7
times before full pressure is achieved, thus keeping the wheels from locking
up.  This system was so succesful that it was 
maintained as standard in all series vehicles and early Range Rovers. It was
also such a 
reliable system, it could always be counted on to work.

A new system, introduced within the last few years, is "ABS".  This is
really nothing more than
 an automated  version of the original system.  Once the pedal is depressed,
the system 
automatically and rapidly pumps the brakes up.

60'WASP "Randall"
67'IIA "Chipper"
88'RR "Shredder"

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 12:13:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Key Blanks

In a message dated 96-01-08 15:50:12 EST, you write:
>Disco has one key that fits doors and ignition. Anyway I am willing 
>to gove it a try. Can your friend sell me a few of his blanks?

Well, I talked to my locksmith friend in California, and he never got the
keys in.  So, sorry for posting my note about getting keys before I  knew
what I was talking about.  
John, n9ejc
94 D90, Wisc

------------------------------

From: Sekerere@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 12:32:59 -0500
Subject: Series IIA Dash

Silly questions, but none of the books I have give me any help. On the Series
IIA dash panel there are three knobs, but I cannot find out what they are all
for. as you look at the dash, the top right-hand knob is for the instrument
panel lights, but what are the bottom right-hand knob, and the one on the top
left-hand side for? Looks like someone (PO?) took a set of pliers to the
bottom right one and tried to turn it one way or the other. Hope someone can
help me with this small question. Also on a NA Series IIA which side would
the original heater have been on. Reason I ask is because I have the small
round Smiths heater, but it is on the left-hand side near the accelerator
pedal-seems a bit odd as if it worked it would broil the right foot of the
driver

Thanks

Chris Whitehead
Series IIA 88" ("Anti-Christ")
Looking for 94/95 Discovery

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:08:15 -0500
Subject: Re: 2.25 7:1 to 8:1 petrol rebuild

The only differences between later 7:1 and 8:1 engines appear to be cyl. head
casting and spark plugs. There are a number of differences between 7:1 eng.
thru suffix H, and the later 7:1 suffix J and 8:1. Note these are engine
number suffixes.

>From RN newsletter, Fall ‘92: Both 7:1 and 8:1 heads were originally 3.690 in
thick. To convert 7:1 head to 8:1 machine 0.100 from bottom of head but check
head thickness first in case PO had head machined. Later heads are
distinguished from early heads by raised boss between valve cover and carb.
It should be stamped 7 or 8.

David Cockey

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 19:01:02 -0600 (CST)
From: "Soren Vels Christensen" <velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: RE: Fuel pumps and heaters...

In message Sat, 13 Jan 1996 01:44:47 -0500 (EST), jgoldman@acs.bu.edu  writes:

> 	Anyone know how to release a brake drum screw? One of mine is seized,
> and no amount of Liquid Wrench has worked, so far. I'm wary of applying
> the propane torch due to the brake parts inside. Anyone see a major
> problem with this?
If you use a torch you might hear a "ping" sound. Thats the drum cracking.
Also the drum might twist a little. All this because the drum is still fixed
to the hub. I have used an impact screw driver with great success. Be sure
to use a large (2 pound) hammer with good inertia and swing it in a long and
soft curve. Let the hammer do the job. Also turn the impact driver a little
to take up slack inside it. When the screw turns a couple of degrees, try
with a normal screw driver. If still stuck try again.

Good luck
sv/aurens

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:14:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Fuel pumps and heaters...

>	Anyone know how to release a brake drum screw? One of mine is seized,
>and no amount of Liquid Wrench has worked, so far. I'm wary of applying the
>propane torch due to the brake parts inside.
Try a hand impact driver, the kind that you hit with a hammer. I used on
sucessfully on my brake drum screws. These have the added benefit of driving
onto the screw head while also twisting. Make sure you use the right size
driver so the screw head isn't messed up. Sometimes just a good hammer blow
directly on the screw will help. Don't know if the torch will work since you
probably need to heat the drive flange which is where the threads are. The
drum will need a lot of heat before the flange heats up.

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:15:59 -0500
Subject: Re: What do you keep in YOUR tool kit?

Here’s what LR considered necessary to carry in the form of their furnished
tool kit in SIIA. Part numbers are from an ‘87 manual.
Description	Part No.
Wheel brace	537179 (part number depends on lug nut size)
Lifting jack	90624214
Handle for jack	592219
Tyre pump - hand	523638
Connection for tyre pump	524959
Grease Gun	503424
Starting handle	218508
Tool roll	219704
Combination pliers	AFU1024
Screwdriver	565770
Spanner 3/16" x 1/4" Whitworth	2705
Spanner 5/16" x 7/16" Whitworth	230736
Spanner, single end 3/8" Whitworth	277320
Spanner 7/16" x 1/2" A.F.	276396
Spanner 11/16" x 3/4" A.F.	277217
Spanner 5/8" x 9/16" A.F.	276397
Adjustable spanner	2707
Distributor screwdriver	240836
Sparking plug spanner	276322
Extension for plug spanner	276323
Box spanner	RTC639
Tommy bar	1403
Tyre pressure gauge	562019
Tyre lever	233261
The Whitworth spanner sizes are the sizes likely to be encountered during
maintenance.
BTW, a wheelbrace is a lug nut wrench.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 10:15:07 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: re: fuel pumps and heaters..

Brake Screws:

Don't worry about torching it.  I had to do this on several of mine - it 
worked very well and doesn't damage anything.  Nothing works quite like 
special tool 100100 (the propane torch) :)  [Of course be certain that 
most of any penetrating oil in there has leaked out before applying the 
torch :)]

Of course there's always brute force and the impact wrench too.

Heater:

You almost certainly have a complete Smiths heater.  The Kodiak unit (at 
least mine) is a rectangular box shaped core inside the passenger 
footwell with no side intake (intake comes via "ducting" to the front 
grill).

Fuel Pump:

I'm not sure if the sed. bowl is available separately anymore (check 
with Rovers North or British Pacific to see if they have used ones 
available).  The replacement, new, fuel pumps no longer employ the 
sediment bowl and rely on an in line filter.

Cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:17:08 -0500
Subject: Land Rover Experience (book)

Received a copy of “The Land Rover Experience” by Tom Sheppard for Christmas.
Highly recommended to all LR owners interested in off-road driving. In fact
anyone contemplating the purchase of a new LR/RR should either budget for a
copy, or else insist the dealer include a copy.
While it is oriented to the current LR line with full-time 4wd, most of its
advice is directly relevant to series LR also. I suspect that it answers many
of the basic questions about differentials, low range, chains, etc. 
The general approach is one of moderation and going slow to stay out of
trouble. The emphasis is on manual transmissions, with the procedure for
automatics following. In the intro. there is a disclaimer that autos are as
good as manuals off road. I suspect the reason for the emphasis is the
experience base in the UK is primarially manuals.
It is available from the usual LR parts sources. Don’t know if LRNA dealers
stock it.

David Cockey

------------------------------

From: HMEdwards@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:28:11 -0500
Subject: Re: 2.25 7:1 to 8:1 petrol rebuild

Jeremy,

I don't think you are going to get much "Hot Rodding" out of the 2.25 engine.
 However, if you want a performance rebuild, go with the full balancing and
stop by your local speed shop to find a performance engine machine shop to do
the work.  You'll have to give them your shop manuel for the numbers, but
they should be able to do a good job.  Weighing the pistons until you get all
four within spec and perfectly matched is a wonderful idea, but then you
would be doing the same as the Turner engine you already have.  This is also
known as blueprinting and balancing, not exactly cheap.  You could also
polish all your ports and manifolds, but then with the lowly Zenith or weber
and the not all the same size exhaust manifold tubes you would quickly lose
any advantage gained.  
My suggestion is do an overall balance and head rebuild with a good
performance shop and you will be doing the best any 2.25 rover engine usually
sees outside of Turners.  I did this to mine two years ago and after 12,000
miles I have no leaks and it runs much smoother.  (I know I just asked for
rover revenge.)  I also started using synthetic (Mobil 1) after the first
6,000 miles.  Have lots of fun and take your time.

Harry Edwards
72 Series III
Las Vegas

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:32:20 -0500
Subject: Re: UK mail order suppliers

In a message dated 96-01-13 09:48:01 EST, you write:

:FWIW - I would be very careful with Craddock, have been burned badly with 
:overcharging, shipping the wrong parts and delays in delivery, and have 
:heard similar things from other LRO in Austria.  If somebody has 
:consistently good experience with this outfit, please say so, maybe I am 
:just unlucky or maybe there is a problem just with older vehicles.

This is a repeat of an exchange a month or so ago.

I've had very good experiences with Craddock over the last several years with
a number of orders for SII parts. They have always shipped promptly. A couple
of items though. First I've usually gotten a quote by LR part number prior to
placing the order asking for parts. Prices can be surprising from any
supplier at times. Second, I'm aware that unless you specifically ask for
genuine LR you may not get genuine LR. Again this is true for a number of
suppliers. Some of the listings in their ads can be confusing. Third, I've
always paid by bankcard so their wasn't any problem waiting for checks to
clear, etc. They have always shipped by regular air parcel post which can
take a week or so to the US..

Othe UK supplies I've used with good luck are Dingocroft and P.A. Blanchard.
Dingocroft is excellent for currently available obscure parts.  Blanchard has
a large stock of military surplus, but you really need a parts book to check.

Be aware that overseas shipping is expensive, even by surface. Also, I would
hesitate to order parts from a supplier  without reference to a parts book to
check parts numbers.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 17:08:01 +0000
From: Stephen Firth <steve@firthcom.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Galvanized parts, painted-over, cleaning of, methods for

At 14:10 13/01/96, lopezba@atnet.at wrote:

>If the paint in the areas next to the galvanized parts should be damaged, it
>would not matter since I plan to have it re-painted anyway (the original RAF
>blue with grey wheels, probably).

In that case I would recommend a chemical stripper. Avoid those which use
acid or strong alkali to strip paint, especially those "blanket strippers"
which use sodium hydroxide. These will also severely corrode zinc and
aluminium and will damage bodywork and galvanised parts. Look for strippers
which use methylene dichloride which is a very unpleasant chemical, must
only be used in well-ventilated conditions but does not attack the
bodywork.

The stripper should be a water-soluble preparation, some need to be removed
with a solvent such as white spirit (purified kerosene) and are unpleasant
to use to cover a large area. Water soluble ones can be removed with a hose
or a trip to a jet car wash.

Even the best strippers leave you a lot of work to do with a stiff-bristled
brush. I would be careful of using wire wool on a Land Rover since the fine
metal particles it leaves behind cause electrolytic corrosion "hot spots."
Rubbing down is best done with aluminium oxide abrasive paper. If using a
wire brush, stainless steel is better than the cheaper brushes which are
generally available.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 14:16:59
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: Re: Galvanized parts, painted-over, cleaning of, methods for

Peter, I bet the PO painted them over because the galvanizing wore off and 
the steel began to rust. Of course the paint is flaking off the "good" 
galvanizing because it has not been properly primed to take paint. Are you 
plannning on removing any of these parts? I think you should count on it. It 
would allow you to refinish the parts the best way: by chemical stripping and 
regalvanizing as necessary. If you choose the easier method,leaving the parts 
on the car, you should avoid chemical paint strippers as they tend to attack 
the aluminum and cause damage. your best bet is to have the parts cleaned 
with a abrasive blaster using plastic media so as to avoid damage to the 
surrounding area and prevent abrasive embedding in the aluminum 
panels.Obviously this the type of job for professionals and they will 
certainly be able to advise you best on your specific case.
There isn't much excuse for leaving the parts on the car if you're serious 
about getting the car back to original condition. Besides, pulling those 
items off will no doubt reveal other problem areas that would most likely 
have gone unnoticed. Since you're in no hurry, don't do the job half-assed. 
All my troubles are Rover

Bill Adams
3Dmentia Video Animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington,MD 20895
301-949-9475

1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense"

" One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin,
because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 12:45:58 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Series IIA Dash

On Sat, 13 Jan 1996 Sekerere@aol.com wrote:

snipped
> Reason I ask is because I have the small
> round Smiths heater, but it is on the left-hand side near the accelerator
> pedal-seems a bit odd as if it worked it would broil the right foot of the
> driver

HUH?  If there is one thing the Smiths heater has _NEVER_ been accused 
of, it's broiling anything.  I suspect that the reason it's in the 
driver's foot well is the faint hope that it will keep the driver from 
freezing to death and and thereby avoiding damage to the Land Rover 
(and the already frozen bodies of the passengers).  It's a survival thing, 
protecting the Land Rover first, the dark downside to the often lauded Land 
Rover trait of (almost) always getting home under it's own power.

Walt

              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover              * 
              * Davis, California       | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:44:25 -0800
Subject: LRNA and Air Filter

Hello again,

A couple of questions...maybe someone can help

First, does anyone know the name and address of the head of LRNA?  I always find 
that going to the top and working your way down works a lot better.  Also, how 
about the person responsible for dealers in LRNA?  Someone on the list (sorry, I 
don't have your name in front of me) posted the contact of the manager of Owner 
Care (for which I thank you) but I'm not really an owner as far as LRNA is 
concerned!

Second, does anyone know the K+N part number for an early Range Rover air filter 
(I believe the same as the Stage I)?  Its the teardrop/oval shaped filter style, 
on top of the manifold.  I think I already asked this once before but I figured 
I'd try again.

Finally, my apologies to those people on the list from outside North America for 
starting a large discussion about North America specific topics...I can imagine 
its a bit boring/annoying.  I would be curious, however, to see how 
owners/prospective buyers are treated elsewhere (UK and OZ for instance).  Are 
the experiences in North America unique....or has it infiltrated the entire 
organization?

How can such a great product be sold in such an amateurish fashion?

Eric

_____________________
Eric Zipkin
Bedford, NY  USA
109" V8 hardtop
SII LWB SW  (my father's)

------------------------------

From: Landy88@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 16:46:14 -0500
Subject: Tool Kit Additions

First, get ahold of a 30MM cannon canister.  Its big, can be painted to match
your vehicle (since it's so big, no one will realize its an ammo can), and
really waterproof.

Another suggestion I would make is to go to pure anti-freeze.  If you run
really short on coolant, you need more than  gallon anyway.  In this case,
drop in the pure antifreeze and refill the jug with water.  Lessens the risk
of getting too low an antifreeze level.

Finally, if you can keep it, a litre or so of good 12 year old Scotch makes
great driver antifreeze.  Just in case its really cold outside or you start
thinking crazy stuff like buying Toyota.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 15:45:34 -0600 (CST)
From: Lorri Paustian <lorri@sound.net>
Subject: Insurance Rates

>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:00:06 -0800
>From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
>Subject: Re: Auto insurance for Land Rovers

>$280 a month!  Wow, that does seem high.

>I live in San Francisco and have been paying about $1,000 every six months
>for full coverage on a "new" 1995 Discovery.

$1,000 every six months seems high as well.  I also have full coverage on a
new 1995 Discovery and pay $380 every six months.  This is with only $100
deductible.  Must be because of the traffic being so much less than in San
Francisco.

'95 Conistan Green Discovery
'95 Arles Blue D90 Hard Top on order

------------------------------

From: clapp.carol@mail.viacomcv.hybrid.com (Carol Clapp)
Subject: History of SII
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:46:22 +0000

I'm trying to find out the history of my 1959 SII and would welcome any
ideas from you out there.

It was built in 1959
First known registration was in UK 1984
Chassis 1 41 9 02244 which gives it a SII chassis, built in 1959, s/n 02244.
Engine 1 51 9 10722 which gives a 2.25 engine s/n 10722

It is the traditional green and limestone.
Tropical roof
Huge Tropical fan

I wonder if it may have been delivered first to Africa, then returned to UK
in 1984.

Present registration does not help as this is/was a temporary one given it
recently just to get it moved and prior registration(s) not known.

Thanks for any ideas you might have
Carol
Happy Rovering!
SII 88" 1959 still to be named but temporarily Bobcat III.
My UK SIII was Bobcat as he is a tough little critter,
My Wrangler is Bobcat Jnr. less tuff but fun and reliable.

------------------------------

From: clapp.carol@mail.viacomcv.hybrid.com (Carol Clapp)
Subject: Auto Insurance
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:39:33 +0000

My next six month's insurance bill just in - works out at $130 per month
full comp for my Wrangler.  This still seems enormous compared to the $17
per month I paid in UK for my SIII for unlimited damages to any thing/one.

Thanks to those of you who have responded to my earlier enquiry as to what
to expect to pay for a Land Rover SII in California.

My SII is not insured for the road yet   Am really getting feverish now as
I.m longing to get down to restoring it and getting it roadworthy.  I did
drive it in UK on the roads but it is not really roadworthy without any
brakes.  And we live on a hill which necessitates a steep down hill section
whichever way you leave here.

Happy rovering!
Carol
SII 88" (not 99" as I managed to put last time) 1959

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 14:54:18 -0800
Subject: Re: Tool Kit Additions

On Sat, 13 Jan 1996, Landy88@aol.com wrote:
>Another suggestion I would make is to go to pure anti-freeze.  If you run
>really short on coolant, you need more than  gallon anyway.  In this case,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>drop in the pure antifreeze and refill the jug with water.  Lessens the risk
>of getting too low an antifreeze level.
I would caution you against using pure antifreeze in your cooling system (which 
I assume you're advising).  I attempted to do so in another car I own and found 
that the substance foamed up quite a bit, consequently causing higher 
temperatures.  In addition, I was informed (not entirely reliably) that 
antifreeze does not transfer heat as well as water.  Anti-freeze is basically 
just that (corrosion inhibitor as well), I haven't seen the manufacturer's 
claims about increased cooling efficiency come true. 

In an emergency when more coolant is needed, water works just fine.  If in 
freezing temperatures, just keep the engine running until you get more 
anti-freeze.  I carry a jug of pure water for the radiator....it can serve as 
drinking water in a pinch...something anti-freeze mix cannot.  If I'm going to 
be in freezing temps much, I also carry a jug of pure anti-freeze so I can make 
a more permanent fix.

If you were advising to carry a jug of pure anti-freeze and run normal mix in 
the engine...ignore everything I just wrote.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 23:31:41 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: LANDROVER BOOTS

Those looking for a good pair of leather boots for the winter mud season, can 
do no wrong than go to your local "THOM MCANN" Shoe store. They are selling 
"LANDROVER" footwear. Not the same brand as our beloved vehicles, but they do 
say "LANDROVER" on them, ALL TERRAIN at that ! 

Thanks to Alan Richer for the tip. Hey, the wife even got a pair !!!!! 

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 15:52:18 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: LR Origination (Was: History of SII)

 Carol Clapp <clapp.carol@mail.viacomcv.hybrid.com> writes:
:I'm trying to find out the history of my 1959 SII and would welcome any
:ideas from you out there.

 Based on your vehicle's serial number, write for a definitive answer
 including shipping dates, dealer destination, and color info.
 Inquire to:
        Mr. John Riley
        Project eng,, Traceability
        LAND ROVER
        Lode Lane, Solihull
        West Midlands B29 8NW
        England

 Mr. Riley generally responds in 3 or 4 weeks.

 Cheers,

                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

  

------------------------------

From: BDaviscar@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 20:21:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Fuel pumps and heaters...

In a message dated 96-01-13 02:06:32 EST, you write:

(What, BTW, do other people use),

 I use kroil  much better then WD-40 or Liquid wrench.

One of the previous owners decided to bypass the mechanical fuel pump
opting to install a small electric pump. The electric pump is noisy and
malfunctioning. Occasionally it will just shut off. Turning off power,
walking away for ten minutes, and turning the ignition switch on sometimes
restores
fuel flow. More often it's a crap shoot. 

 It could be a bad ground. I almost bypassed  my fuel pump for a electric one
as I was having  trouble keeping the engine running turned out to be a packed
up fuel line.

The original mechanical pump is still on the engine. It's just not
used. A recent issue of LRO International had an article on re-building fuel
pumps. With the wings off, I mangaged to get a socket in there and rip the
sucker out. It seems to be in fairly good condition. Only opening it up will
tell more. One thing it is missing, however, is the glass sediment bowl.
After that lengthy preface, where can I get the sediment bowl part of the
pump? Is
it sold separately?

 The core is a flat block of radiating fins. What does a Kodiak look like?

In the cab of mine (SIIa) I have a big black box with two holes in the top
for the defrosters two doors in the "front face" and a side vent facing the
drivers side.

Anyone know how to release a brake drum screw? One of mine is seized,
and no amount of Liquid Wrench has worked, so far. I'm wary of applying the
propane torch due to the brake parts inside. Anyone see a major problem with
this?

My brake drums I had to drill out two of the screws to remove the drums. my
SIIA 88 was sitting for 15 years I had a few studs to replace too  as they
come out nut and stud as one.

Hope this helps

Bruce   Chicago
67 SIIA 88  Patches

------------------------------

From: ecoethic@rcinet.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 21:07:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Series Towing

Mark asked about things to consider relative to the Series III he is looking at that 
has been towed. I have dragged a Series around behind a motor home on occasion 
and I would ask the owner just how he set it up for towing. For instance, are there 
free-wheeling hubs on the front axle? What about the rear axle? If it has them on 
both, wear and tear is confined to bearings, seals, and tires while towing. Did the 
owner disconnect the rear driveshaft if there was not free-wheeling hubs on the 
rear? Or did he do nothing but put everything in neutral? If that's the case, the diffs 
were working and so was the transfer case, and maybe the trans. That does not rule 
out purchasing the Rover by any means, but the thought that went into setting it 
up for towing reflects on how the whole vehicle might have been maintained.

Walter Pokines
Tipp City, Ohio, USA

------------------------------

From: BDaviscar@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 21:18:45 -0500
Subject: tool kits

 Well I for one like all the things  the people on the list have been
suggesting to put in a tool kit. The only thing I have to add is a companion
to do the work I mean help do the work. (ha,ha)  

BTW what is a mole wrench?

Bruce  Chicago

67 SIIA 88 Patches

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 21:26:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Series IIA Dash

: Also on a NA Series IIA which side would
:the original heater have been on. Reason I ask is because I have the small
:round Smiths heater, but it is on the left-hand side near the accelerator
:pedal-seems a bit odd as if it worked it would broil the right foot of the
:driver.

I have two North American '60 SIIs. One has a round Smiths heater on left
side of center. The other has a Kodiak(?) heater on the right side, but has
clear evidence of being built with a round Smiths heater. A third '59 parts
vehicle also has evidence of an original heater on the left.  I presume this
is an example of LR not fully understanding non-British user's needs. It
looks like the original installation was designed for RHD without considering
LHD.

------------------------------

From: ecoethic@rcinet.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 21:30:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Snobbery message

The message I sent out yesterday concerning LRNA snobbery appeared spaced 
out and full of code because I forgot to save it as a text file from Word for 
Windows 6.0. Sorry, I guess I was heated up about how shabbily some of us are 
treated while in dealerships. I really do think something constructive should be 
done like picketing and keeping lists of friendly and/or unfriendly dealers. I can 
understand how people using a dealership for warranty service might not want to 
be involved in picketing, but others from out of the area could with no fear of 
retribution. I think we will face this problem for a long time unless LRNA gets a 
message. Is this problem primarily in the United States, or is everybody getting the 
cold shoulder when they appear less than affluent? They still owe Eric and his 
father a profound apology, and we haven't heard from LRNA on this list yet. How 
about a letter signed by representatives from all of the Land Rovers clubs being 
sent to management of LRNA? How about getting their E-Mail address and 
blasting them with hundreds of messages? How about an article in 4-wheel drive 
magazines expressing our disgust and tales of shabby treatment?

Walter Pokines
Tipp City, Ohio, USA
Series Snob, Not

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 20:32:20 -0500
From: jennie@uni.liverpool.ac.uk, steinling@rentwes.org.uk, chiu@otego.ac.uk,
Subject: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 295+ Popular USA Titles

-----> NOTE:   Please first read my note which appears below the "Request
for more info Form."  Then, to get more info, just fill out the "Request
for More Info" form completely and *FAX* or *SMAIL* it back to the company.
You will get a quick reply via email within 1 business day of receipt of
the info request form below.

IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR THOSE FAXING IN THEIR REPLY:  Please make sure you
return *only* the below form and *no part* of this message other than the
actual form below.  If you do not know how to cut and paste the below form
onto a fresh clean blank page for faxing, then you may re-type the below
form, as long as you copy it line for line *exactly.*  This is necessary in
order for them to be able to process the tremendous number of replies that
they get daily.

Your fax goes directly onto their 4.2 gigabyte computer hard drive, not
paper, and all incoming fax calls are set-up to be *auto-terminated* if
your fax:
1. has a cover page;
2. is more than one page
3. does not begin with the "cut here/begin" line from the below form
4. does not end with the "cut here/end" line from the below form.
5. has any handwritten info. on it (info must must be filled out *only*
    with your computer keyboard or typewriter keyboard).  This last
    provision re:  no handwriting on the form applies to requests sent in
    via smail also.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NOTE:  Their fax line is open 24 hrs. per day, but due to thousands of
inquiries coming in per week from potential new members living overseas,
the easiest time to get through is Monday-Friday, 9 am - 5 pm EST (New York
Time).  If you have trouble getting through to their fax, just drop the
below form to them via smail (airmail or first class mail).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

*------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------*
REQUEST FOR MORE INFO:  please return *only* this section (with no cover
page) via 1-page fax to:
                              718-967-1550 in the USA

or via smail (airmail) to:    Magazine Club Inquiry Center
                                         Att. FREE Catalogue-by-email Dept.
                                         PO Box 990
                                         Staten Island NY  10312-0990

Sorry, but incomplete forms *will not* be acknowledged.  If you do not
have an email address, or access to one, they will not be able to help you
until you do have one.  If you saw this message, then you should have one.  :)

Name:
Internet email address:
Smail home address:
City-State-Zip:
Country:
Work Tel. #:
Work Fax #:
Home Tel. #:
Home Fax #:

How did you hear about us (name of person who referred you or the area of
the internet that you saw us mentioned in):  Referral by:  Jennie Winslow.
011396-l

Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store:

Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store:

Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail:

Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you:

Catalogue format desired (list "1," "2," "3" or "4"):

*------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------*

Catalogue Format Options:
1.  19-Part email- can be read by EVERYONE (~525 K Total).
2.  For more advanced computer users:  attached text file ~525K - you
     must know how to download an attached text file and then be able to
     open it with your word processor.  If in doubt, don't ask for this
     version.  This isn't for internet *newbies.* Better to order option 1
     and spend a few minutes pasting them into one whole text document
     with your word processor, than to waste hours trying to figure how
     to deal with this option.
3.  For more advanced Macintosh computer users: compressed attached
     text file, created with a Stuffit(tm) self-extracting archive (.sea),
      ~133K.  Can be decompressed by any Macintosh computer user; no
     special expansion software or knowledge of Stuffit (tm) needed.  You
     just double-click on the file icon and it automatically expands
     (unstuffs). This is for more advanced mac computer users only, as
     you still have to know how to deal with an attached file.  It will cut
     your download time by 75%.   Expands out to the same ~525K file in
     option #2.  See option #2 for more info on what you will need to be
     able to do.
4.  For expert computer users: compressed attached text file, created with
     Stuffit(tm),  ~114K.  Can be decompressed by any computer user who
     has expansion software to decompress (expand) Stuffit(tm) (.sit) files.
     This is for more advanced computer users only and will cut your
     download time by 78%.   Expands out to the same ~525K file in option
     #2.  See option #2 for more info on what you will need to be able to do.

Hi fellow 'netters,

My name is Jennie Winslow and I recently started using a magazine
subscription club in the USA that has a FREE 1 yr. magazine subscription
deal with your first paid order- and I have been very pleased with them.
They have over 1,500 different USA titles that they can ship to any country
on a subscription basis.   As for computer magazines from the USA, they
more of a selection than I ever knew even existed.  They have magazines for
most every area of interest in their list of 1,500 titles.

Within the USA, for their USA members, they are cheaper than all their
competitors and even the publishers themselves.  This is their price
guarantee.

Overseas, on the average, they are generally around one-fourth to one-half
of what the newsstands overseas charge locally for USA magazines.  On some
titles they are as little as one-tenth of what the newsstands charge.  They
feel that mgazines should not be a luxury overseas.   In the USA, people
buy magazines and then toss them after reading them for just a few minutes
or hours.  They are so cheap in the USA!   Well, this company would like to
make it the same way for their overseas members.  They are also cheaper
than all their competitors in the USA and overseas, including the
publishers themselves!   This is their price guarantee.  Around one-half
their business comes from overseas, so they are very patient with new
members who only speak limited English as a 2nd language.

Their prices are so cheap because they deal direct with each publisher and
cut-out all the middlemen.

They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 525K-big and
juicey) !)...if you completely fill out the form above.  It has lists of
all the freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken down by
categories and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles that
they sell.

Please do not email me as I am just a happy customer and a *busy* student.
I don't have time to even complete my thesis in time, let alone run my
part-time software business!  Please fill out the above form and carefully
follow the intructions above to get it to them via fax or smail.

They guarantee to beat all their competitors' prices. Sometimes they are
less than half of the next best deal I have been able to find and other
times, just a little cheaper - but I have never found a lower rate yet.
They assured me that if I ever do, they will beat it.

They have been very helpful and helped me with all my address changes as I
haved moved from one country to another.

They have a deal where you can get a free 1 yr. sub to a new magazine from
a special list of over 295 popular titles published in the USA.   They will
give you this free 1 yr. sub when you place your first paid order with them
to a renewal or new subscription to any of the over 1,500 different popular
USA titles they sell.

They can arrange delivery to virtually any country and I think they have
clients in around 45 or 46 countries now.  Outside the USA there is a
charge for FPH (foreign postage and handling) (on both paid and freebie
subs) that varies from magazine to magazine.  I have found their staff to
be very friendly and courteous.  They even helped me with an address change
when I moved from one country to another.

The owner thinks of his service as a "club" and his clients as "members"
(even though there is no extra fee to become a member - your first purchase
automatically makes you a member) and he is real picky about who he accepts
as a new member.   When he sets you up as a new member, he himself calls
you personally on the phone to explain how he works his deal, or sometimes
he has one of his assistants call.  He is kind of quirky sometimes - he
insists on setting up new members by phone so he can say hi to everyone (I
sure wouldn't want to have his phone bills!),  but you can place future
orders (after your first order) via E-mail.

He has some really friendly young ladies working for him, who seem to know
just as much as he does about this magazine stuff.  If you live overseas,
he will even call you there, as long as you are interested, but I think he
still makes all his overseas calls on the weekends, I guess cause the long
distance rates are cheaper then.

He only likes to take new members from referrals from satisfied existing
members and he does virtually no advertising.  When I got set-up, they had
a 2-3 week waiting list for new members to be called back so that they
could join up. (Once you are an existing member, they help you immediately
when you call. )  I think they are able to get back to prospective new
members  the same day or within a few days now, as they have increased
their staff.  I am not sure about this.........but if you email the above
form to them, that is the way to get started!

They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 525K-big and
juicey) !)...if you completely fill out the form above.  It has lists of
all the freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken down by
categories and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles that
they sell.

They then send you email  that outlines how his club works and the list of
free choices that you can choose from, as well as the entire list of what
he sells;  and then they will give you a quick (3-5 minute) friendly,
no-pressure no-obligation call to explain everything to you personally and
answer all your questions.

Once you get in, you'll love them. I do.

Sincerely,

Jennie Winslow

ps.  please forward a copy of this message to all your friends on the net
who you think might be interested in it!  It is a great deal!  If you join
and then they join after you, you will earn a free 1 yr. subscription for
each new person you get to join after you join!   If you exceed 25
referrals, they let you use them to give away as gifts, for Christmas,
Chanukah or any other occasion.  Please be kind enough to mention my name
when you join.   I will then get a free magazine for a year for referring
you.
Thank you.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 19:27:08 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: South of the Border

At 08:32 13.01.96 -0500, H. J. Hewson wrote:

>E-Mail me if you want to know some great places along the Pacific side and
>the location of the bar that serves, without a doubt, the best margaritas in
>Baja, Mexico. I have made this quest my life's work.

Do you have any job openings???

Salut!
Juan
'95 Descubrimiento
San Pancho, Califas  (San Francisco, California)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 19:26:50 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: What do you keep in YOUR tool kit?

What about carrying a prayer book (a.k.a. factory service manual)?  Ya gotta
have one of those, no?

Cheers!
John

P.S.  "Crampons, condoms"?  I think I went out with her once when I was in
college.

At 15:42 12.01.96 +0000, Mike Rooth wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>Alan,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)]
>Worried
>Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 19:26:58 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Bad advertising

Well...  In LRNA's defense (Don't hit me!  Don't hit me!) maybe the people
that man the phones can't afford Land Rovers, and the company doesn't give
them company LRs.  Maybe too, the handful of people that did show up for
work weren't enough to man the phones, so they "busied them out."

My dog ate my homework,
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco

At 18:27 12.01.96 -0500, Alexander P. Grice wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>Robert Virzi wrote about LRNA:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)]
>      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
>      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 19:27:04 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: LR Dealers

Good point.  Gee.  I don't have a scanner.  Can anyone out there scan this
stuff in, or should I get typing?

Cheers!
John

At 01:12 13.01.96 -0500, Mike Loiodice wrote:
>John sez...
>>The owners' manuals in all of the new Land Rovers list them in the back.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>Cheers
>Mike    

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Jan 96 03:48:50 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Snobbery message

I doubt that this type of Snobbery is seen in the UK. Here in the US, you have 
to understand the market they are playing in. Move limited edition vehicles, 
after all, Land Rover production is a lot less than a single domestic model. 

I suppose you just have to tolerate the Series type attitude. Remember, that 
dealers in the UK have been around for years, selling ALL  models, for a long 
time. LRNA history is well documented. The arrival of RR in 87 started the 
Land Rover name here again, even then it was called RRNA. 

I'm not trying to stick up for the dealers, I think all should be treated as 
equal. But remember the market, the price of the vehicles and the park that LR 
are playing in. To be perfectly honest, picketing etc will not get you very 
far, after all, there will always be someone else that will slap down the 
deposit for a new disco, RR or defender.  Supply and demand.  

If you need Series parts, service and advice, then go to Rovers North, if you 
want new Land Rover products go to the dealer. 

I remember when I lived in Greenwich CT, there was a story that went around. A 
black guy went into the local Ferrari dealer, he was ignored the entire time, 
with the sales guys shadowing him wherever he went. No one asked if he could 
be helped. He eventually walked out. A few days later the guy showed up at the 
dealership in a new red Testarossa. It was later reported that the Black guy 
had $100,000 cash in his pockets and wanted a new Ferrari. That guy was Bobby 
Bonilla, of the Mets !!!!!!!! The sales guy lost the commission. 

So if, you get bad service, go elsewhere. 

Mark 
    

----------
From:  ecoethic@rcinet.com
Sent:  Saturday, January 13, 1996 9:31 PM
Subject:  Re: Snobbery message

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

The message I sent out yesterday concerning LRNA snobbery appeared spaced 
out and full of code because I forgot to save it as a text file from Word for 
Windows 6.0. Sorry, I guess I was heated up about how shabbily some of us are 
treated while in dealerships. I really do think something constructive should 
be 
done like picketing and keeping lists of friendly and/or unfriendly dealers. I 
can 
understand how people using a dealership for warranty service might not want 
to 
be involved in picketing, but others from out of the area could with no fear 
of 
retribution. I think we will face this problem for a long time unless LRNA 
gets a 
message. Is this problem primarily in the United States, or is everybody 
getting the 
cold shoulder when they appear less than affluent? They still owe Eric and his 

father a profound apology, and we haven't heard from LRNA on this list yet. 
How 
about a letter signed by representatives from all of the Land Rovers clubs 
being 
sent to management of LRNA? How about getting their E-Mail address and 
blasting them with hundreds of messages? How about an article in 4-wheel drive 

magazines expressing our disgust and tales of shabby treatment?

Walter Pokines
Tipp City, Ohio, USA
Series Snob, Not

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 20:15:21 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 295+ Popular

They're ba-ack.

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 13 Jan 96 23:07:33 EST
Subject: Re: What do you keep in YOUR tool kit?

From: jcwhite3 @ well.com ("John C. White, III") @ INTERNET

>What about carrying a prayer book (a.k.a. factory service manual)?  Ya gotta
>have one of those, no?

Speak for yourself. We macho studly (or studette) types don' need no steenking 
manuals.....

Typically, I carry the owner's manual, which gives me the specs and such I 
might need for settable items like points and plugs. Anything deeper than that 
I'll usually hack to get home then deal with in the Madman's Workshop.....

AKA: I ain't gonna disassemble the tranny on the side of the road..... and old 
Churchill being a pickup does mean that he's not exactly overendowed with 
storage space.

    ajr

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 20:30:25 -0800
Subject: Re: What do you keep in YOUR tool kit?

On Fri, 12 Jan 1996, slade@teleport.com wrote:

>I've kept a beef log and a disposable camera in my car for years, and boy
>have they both come in handy!

The disposable camera is a great idea....I had one with me the other day and now 
I have a record of the underside of my truck, exposed to broad daylight!  ;-)

Eric

_____________________
Eric Zipkin
Bedford, NY  USA
109" V8  Hardtop
SII LWB SW (my father's)

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 20:30:33 -0800
Subject: Snobbery

Sit down in front of the computer pissed off at someone....and look what 
happens....

I wholeheartedly support the idea of forming a list of dealers and parts 
suppliers and identifying our experiences with them.  I think picketing might be 
a bit extreme (the LR owner part of me says go ahead, though).  Although we are 
only several hundred on this list (fewer who actually are in North America) we 
can have a much greater impact.  As dedicated enthusiasts we are the ones people 
come to for advice about LR products...so lets give them accurate information.  

Complaining to LRNA is another great avenue....we just have to be careful not to 
look like a bunch of fools....even if we are sometimes :-)

>From a gut feeling, I think the top LRNA management might be thankful for some 
articulate letters outlining the dealer situation.  As in any large corporate 
structure, the happenings in the "rank and file" never accurately filter up to 
the top.  A properly directed clamour from those of us who are disgruntled may 
indeed have the desired effect....then again, they could just blow us off.

Let's see what we can do.

Eric

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 20:30:19 -0800
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance

On Sat, 13 Jan 1996, clapp.carol@mail.viacomcv.hybrid.com (Carol Clapp) wrote:

Thanks to those of you who have responded to my earlier enquiry as to what
to expect to pay for a Land Rover SII in California.

Happy rovering!
Carol
SII 88" (not 99" as I managed to put last time) 1959

One idea that I haven't seen mentioned yet is 'historical' insurance.  This 
applies only to vehicles 25 years or older but is a SUBSTANTIAL savings over 
regular insurance.  Most policies stipulate that you can't drive over a certian 
number of miles per year, but if your Rover is a secondary vehicle, you probably 
won't go over the limit.  One other advantage is that you can set the value of 
your vehicle BEFORE any loss occurs.  I've heard horror stories when someone 
wrecks their pristine Rover (worth over $10k) and the insurance company wants to 
give the owner $2000 because it is so hard to determine its value.

To give you an idea of cost savings:  For my Rover (registered as a '72) I pay 
just under $500 per six months for liability only.  I insure my '63 Spitfire as 
a historical vehicle (don't use it as much as I'd like :-)) and pay under $50 
per six months (liability only).  Also, it is not required to register the car a 
a historical vehicle (some states this is difficult and limiting).

You have to go through a specialist company for this insurance.  Most, if not 
all, advertise in Hemmings Motor News.  If you have any more questions, or 
comments, let me know.

Eric

_________________
Eric Zipkin
Bedford, NY  USA
109" V8 Hardtop
SII LWB SW (my father's)

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 21:38:42 -0800
Subject: Re: tool kits

----------------------------- Begin Original Text -------------------------

 Well I for one like all the things  the people on the list have been
suggesting to put in a tool kit. The only thing I have to add is a companion
to do the work I mean help do the work. (ha,ha)  
----------------------------- End Original Text -----------------------------

I could have used that more than once.  last time I broke, I was near the top
of a canyon on the edge of death valley driving my 109 in a string of 10 or
12 Land Rovers.  I got a call from the 109 behind me to stop because my right
rear was sitting funny.  A quick inspection showed The car had lost its right
rear 'U' bolts and the lower anchor plate.  Ah, I thought, finally a
breakdown with lots of experienced help.  Suddenly  several piles of tools
showed up and someone went after the missing 'U' bolts and plate.

Then the fine experienced gentlemen (and ladies) got out the lawn chairs &
brews & proceded to watch me fix my car.   Luckally, there was one used 'U'
bolt in Ben's spare pile that fit, and I was able to pound one of the old 'U'
bolts back into a 'U' shape and refile threads into it that a nut would sorta
accept.  I think the gentlemen wanted to see the lady put her tools where her
keyboard was and actually fix her own car.  The job was done quickly and i
opted to turn back since the home made threads would not hold like factory
ones.  The worst part of the whole thing  was that when I got done and wanted
a chance to rest & get a cool drink, everyone packed up & headed for their
cars.  They proceeded over the top and returned via another canyon, while I,
with a D110 (Yes! a US spec D110 actually off road!!) to keep me company
carefully went down the same canyon The obsticals known being easier to
navigate smoothly than the ones yet unencountered.

The following day I hitched a ride in a D90.  After the meet was over I drove
home & swapped out a full set of rear 'U' bolts.

That meet had a D110, a couple of D90s, some Discoveries, 88s, two 109s and a
107.

I guess i'm still looking for the mechanic to pop into my tool box too

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 22:05:11 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Magazine Subscription Advertisement.....again!

The folks behind these phoney ads can be reached by e-mail at:
krazykev@kjl.com   if you want to let them know what you think of their 
advertising tactics (I just forward their junk mail back to them.)

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 22:08:58 -0800
Subject: e-mail scams

550 jennie@uni.liverpool.ac.uk... Host unknown (Name server:
uni.liverpool.ac.uk: host not found)

junk mail and I can't even flame the originator.

UUURRRGGGG!!

TeriAn

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 22:24:13 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Temporary Insanity

This afternoon, changed the engine oil and filter in my '94 D90. 
Instead of refilling the crankcase with 10 imperial pints, 
I filled it with 10 *quarts* of oil. I drove about 2 miles 
(at 30 MPH) before I recovered my sanity and removed the excess 
oil.
The "positive crankcase ventilation air intake filter" looked OK.
The "positive crankcase ventilation breather filter" looked pretty 
cruddy - but I'm not sure if any of the crud was new. I washed it 
in solvent as recommended in the owners manual.

Is there anything else that I should clean or inspect?  Anything likely 
to be damaged?

I feel like such a ........... dipstick!!

David 
 

------------------------------

From: Andy Dingley <dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk>
Subject: LR Dealer Disaster
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 05:58:37 GMT

>My father and I walked into the local dealer [...]
> For at least 15 minutes we were ignored by the more 
> than 10 salesmen in the place!  

My sympathies.

This does indicate one of the differences between UK & US LR
marketing. Even the snobbiest LR dealer in the UK has a high tolerance
for customer appearance. I have relatives who've walked into the
showrooms in their wellies, still smelling of cowshit, and paid cash
for a brand new Landie.

> True, we weren't dressed by Barbour 

Have you _seen_ my Barbour ?   8-)

Do you have a cellphone ?  One tactic I've used in the past is phoning
up the showroom, talking my way as high up as possible, then asking
them to look out of the office window and get someone to damn well
come and serve the guy waving the cellphone.

--
Andy Dingley                                dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk

The Internet has given us all mountains of information at our fingertips.
...and all most people want to do is pick their noses with them.

------------------------------

From: slade@teleport.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 23:10:31 -0800
Subject: Re: Powder Coating

Several have asked about powdercoating and what it is, how it works, and
why you would do it.

I must state that this is my first time using it, and that I am by no means
an expert.  Basicaly this is what I was told about how it works.

Any material may be coated, provided it can hold an electrical
charge/current.  The material to be coated needs to be either
stripped/sandblasted or it could have a coat of non-liquid paint (i.e.
another coat of powdercoating).  Sandblasting is a good way to go, as it
gives an excellent tooth for the powder coat to bite into.  I opted for
sandblasting my wheels  (NRC7578's).

The part is charged with a positive (+) charge, and the powder to be
sprayed on is given a negative (-) charge.  When the powder is sprayed onto
the metal (or whatever, they say even glass can be coated) it acts like a
magnet and the powder is drawn into even the smallest nook and cranny.

I watched a person coating some parts, and the powder is of a smokey/sooty
consistency.

The part that has been coated is then sent into a pre-heated oven set to
400 deg. F for 2 hours.  The coating is a resin/plastic compound (again I'm
not the expert) and is baked, spreading out and smoothing itself into a
shiny coat.  It is allowed to cool overnight.

Upon removal, the powder coating is between 1/32-1/16 of an inch thick.
I'm not sure exactly.

The plastic can flex, (good for suspension springs), doesn't chip or flake,
and is impervious to just about anything.  I thought about the breakfast,
bulkhead and/or rear crossmember as other options for powdercoating.
Obviously a sandblasted frame would be an ideal candidate.  If I had a
galv. frame I wouldn't bother though.

Depending on how I like it, I'm considering doing the same to my ROAV sunvisor.

Also, the powder coating is offered in hundreds of colors, one of which
matches limestone perfectly.

You could paint over it I guess, but I don't know why you'd want to.

My wheels (NRC7578's) will be done on Wednesday, and I'll post again how I
think it turned out.  I can also repost a 6 mo. followup for those who
might be interested.

Till then,

Michael

------------------------------

From: slade@teleport.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 23:17:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Auto insurance for Land Rovers

FWIW,

My 66 IIA '88 was assesed by the State of Utah to be worth $54,800 (no
typo) for state tax purposes this year.  Being taxed at a .017 % rate I
should owe the State of Utah $931.60.  Fortunately I moved from Utah to
Oregon, where it takes $25 to register a car for 2 years, and where they
also charge you no property tax.

Luckly for me regarding the state of Utah, I moved, and also sold my Rover.

Unluckily for me, I only sold it for $6,000.

I'll photocopy this form and send it to the buyer.  Hopefully he'll realize
what a steal he got from me.

Later,

Michael

PS  My 109SW  is insured as a 1970 Range Rover, now with "Warn 'Free Willy'
Hubs".

------------------------------

From: slade@teleport.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 23:33:36 -0800
Subject: Waving tally 1/13

Waved at me:

Chevy Beretta
Ford pickup
Range Rover
Honda Prelude
VW van
Discovery (man on cell phone)

Convoyed home with me:

Citroen DS 21

Didn't wave at me:

Discovery (drove behind me for 10 minutes)

Turned up nose at me:

Defender 90 (could have sworn he was wearing "Adventure Gear"!  HA!)

Maybe someday I'll quit worrying about it.

Later,

Michael

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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