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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 23:33:27 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hand cranking

At 02:45 PM 1/11/96 +0000, you wrote:

>started driving, can even be useful now to loosen up an engine if there is a
>hole and you have a handle.   I was always taught to keep my thumb on the
>same side of the handle as the fingers - that avoids hand/wrist injury.

I had to hand start my Rover for about 2 weeks while waiting for a starter.
I ended up using my foot to kick over the crank.  If you think about it you
can position your foot so it won't be caught by a spinning hand crank.
However, on my Rover the crank always slips out nicely as soon as the engine
fires, and never threatens injury.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Opening beer bottles (was: Re: Range Rovers off road) 
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 07:23:01 GMT
From: dlanod@iafrica.com (Donald Abbot)

Benjamin responded to my question:

 > > That's fine for my SIIA but what about my SIII?
> I have found that if you don't have the metal headlinig piece that hides
> the windscreen/hardtop junction you will see a number of bolts that attach
> the hardtop to the windscreen.  If you can use any bolt to pry the top off
> your beer.  I have yet to spill any beer or chip the bottle via this method.

I had to remove the part of the headliner you refer to to see what you are 
talking about. Unfortunately, this part has the rear view mirror and the sun 
visors attached to it. Either I find another place to open the beers or I will 
be forced to remove it. Obviously, I agree that having an open beer in the hand 
is better than looking at what I have just passed or squinting at what I am 
about to pass.

Donald

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: D90 trip report
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 08:41:11 UNDEFINED

|A buddy of mine once gave me some US miliatary ear plugs that were made of
|soft rubber and had a series of 3 baffles that were inserted into the ear
|canal.

|They were somewhat intimidating to use the first time as I was afraid of
|damaging my eardrum, but when they were properly inserted they worked much
|better than the soft squishy foam ones others have mentioned.

Interestingly, a couple of tests I have seen  show little difference with 
slight favour to the foam, except at low frequencies where the foam plugs, 
counterintuitively, outperformed everything else by a significant margin. I 
used to work at the blasting labs at Buxton and the foam plugs were better 
than the Health and Safety provided solid earphones!!!! I got a lot of stick 
for using the foam instead of the 'proper' equipment till I told em wher they 
could shove their phones.......

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Opening beer bottles (was: Re: Range Rovers off road) 
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 01:02:13 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199601120745.CAA13035@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote:
  
Regarding using the windscreen/hartop bolts to open beers.

> I had to remove the part of the headliner you refer to to see what you are 
> talking about. Unfortunately, this part has the rear view mirror and the sun 
> visors attached to it. 

	Oh, I forgot about the sun visors.  Mine have been off for years.
(I'm 6' 4" and I found that I got an extra inch of vision by removing the
visors.  And if I sit up straight I'm so tall that I can't see 20 feet in
front of the Rover.  Hence I don't need the visors.  As for the rearview 
mirror.  I'm intending to remove the bracket in
the center to which the headliner piece is attached and bolt on my own 
bracket to which I'll attach the rear-view mirror.  Right now the mirror is
duct taped to the origional bracket.  But I have other things higher on
my list to do.  Such as replace the the right rear spring.  (I got half way
through a spring swap last weekend and currently my 88" has the spring
from a 109" 1ton (minus a leaf) on the left side and a spring from an 88"
(minus 2 leaves--it's a long story of a jury rig) on the other.  The funny
thing is that she's sitting level for the first time in a long time.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jan 96 03:56:45 EST
From: Lars Rosenmeier <100670.3705@compuserve.com>
Subject: New Discovery model? and comparison test

For your information: I have a photo in front of me of a '96 Land Rover
Discovery pick up with hard top. In Denmark we get a lot of 4X4s that are
converted to pick models because of our special tax rules. Normally the
conversions are made locally, but my Land Rover dealer told me that the
Discovery pick up is not a conversion. It seems that there is a demand for an
extra commercial model and that the factory therefore has started making
Discovery pick ups.
With the hard top installed it closely resembles the 3-door Discovery. The hard
top looks as if they have cut the roof at the doors and just put it back on.
Three models will be available i Denmark: Two TDi models; one with ABS, airbags
and alloy wheels and one without, plus one V8 automatic with  ABS, airbags and
alloy wheels. Prices should start at USD 36300 plus tax (USD 5400) and VAT but
with hard top for the base TDi model. The TDi and V8 models with more equipment
should be USD 3300 extra.
The above information is what i have been told by the dealer, whether it is 100%
correct or not i do not know. 
BTW yesterday a danish newspaper (Berlingske Tidende) compared the off-road
abilities of 12 different 4X4s that they had tested. The ranking order was: 1.
Land Rover D90 TDi. 2. Land Rover D110 TDi. 3. Land Rover Discovery 3,9i aut. 4.
Mercedes Benz 290GD. 5. Daihatsu Rocky 2,8td. 6. Mitsubishi Pajero 2,5td. 7.
Nissan Patrol 2,8td. 8. Nissan Patrol 4,2. 9. Toyota Landcruiser 4.2td. 10.
Chevrolet S10 V6 aut. 11. Chevrolet Astro Van V6 4,3 aut. 12. Mitsubishi Pajero
V6 3.0 aut.

	Lars

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:57:36 +0100
From: terje@tvnorge.no (Terje Krogdahl)
Subject: Name That Piston

I'm in the middle of rebuilding my five main bearing 2.25 petrol engine.
Now the pistons have me confused a bit. They are not flat on the top, nor do
they have the V shaped groove of the diesel pistons.

Instead they have a shallow (1-2 mm) depression in the middle. It starts with
an even edge about 1-2 cm from the edge, and is obviously manufactured this
way. The part number ERC8848 is to be seen on the inside, but it does not
appear in the SIII parts manual. I suspect the engine may be an early 
preproduction unit meant for early 110's.

Does anyone know what these pistons are? Could they be 7:1 compression
pistons?

Terje Krogdahl
1972 SIII 88" 2.25 (1983ish) petrol

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 04:22:10 EST
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: How to open beer bottles.

You don't need metal dashboards, hard top bolts or anything.
  
Simply put the lip of the cap on a hard edge, such as the bumper. The
bottle should hang down, just off vertical.
  
Then strike the cap with the heel of your hand. Hey presto! The cap
comes off.
  
It is quite hard to do this using the bumper if you are still
driving :-)
  
Mind you don't bruise your hand doing this!
  
Steve Reddock                         Product Evaluation, 26/12
Xyratex                  Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450  Int.721-4450
REDDOCK at HVTVM         Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 10:34:42 +0001
From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili)
Subject: Names

Hello roverers,

I noticed that among the listmembers there are those who have given their
LANDROVER(S) names. There are those who put the finger on the right spot,
for instance "Money Pit" is more than true. There are those wich kept me
wondering for a while, I just recently "discovered" that Beluga is the name
for some caviar. 

Since I own my Discovery( about 4 months now) I wanted to give the thing a
name. This kept me busy for while, but since the last winter period( first
snow, then salt, icy rain and more salt) I noticed that the color of the
vehicle kept changing from Avalon Blue on sunny days, through green into
grayish on cloudy days, than into white on snowy days and even a two-tone
Blue,Green,Grayish combined with a crispy white on salty days. 

So I think that there is only one name that will suit the car and that will be:
"The Chameleon". So from now on the car is no longer a stranger passing by :-)
LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR
                ____
      |   _____/|__||   Roy Wassili,<wassili@amc.uva.nl>
      |  /(-8|  \   |   Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66
  ____|_/[]__|__\___|#         "The Chameleon"
 |] __=|     |  __  |#
[|_/  \|_____|_/  \_|]
  ( o )        ( o )

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 04:06:54 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: Questions?

Chris asks...

>1.   Reciently, steam/smoke, and oil splatter has been coming out of the oil
>filler neck.  Is this just a bad cap, or is it something else wrong with the
-

Offhand, I would suspect the PVC valve or maybe worn rings allowing too much
pressure in the crankcase. You might want to do a compression test onm each
cylinder.

>2.   Can the clutch be adjusted?  So far, two different answers from two
>different mechanics.  One said it was hydrolic and could not be adjusted, the

Yes and no... :)  The clutch pressure plate/release is self adjusting...
There is nothing on the slave cylinder end on a SerIII that you can adjust.
However, you can adjust the pedal position and the free play on the master
cylinder pushrod. Both of those adjustments are located under the wing.
 
>Now I see why the majority of you work on your own cars... 

Naaaa.... we all just like pain....

Cheers
Mike Loiodice
166 W. Fulton St.                  1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green     
Gloversville                       1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo
NY  12078  (USA)        7          1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue
                     #:-}>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 07:11:52 GMT
From: michelbe@praline.net (Michel)
Subject: Re: Half-shaft snaps and the cold

Hello all, Another hit for Rudolph, my 109 Pickup. When trying to pull out
from my parking space yesterday (it hadn't move for two weeks), I heard a
huge bang in the drivetrain and it didn't budge. Oh well, another
half-shaft. Stopped the car, got out of it, reached for my tools, and
started the axle-changing process. Got out the long one, which was intact,
and then the short one is stuck. Can only pull it for about half an inch!!
Oh well, I guess I will have to borrow a come-along this weekend to finish
the job. 

Looks like the wheels were stuck in the ice or something. It's been reaally
cold down here (-35 at nights) and They just froze over. Darn! I'll know for
now.

It isn't true that the splines will twist sometime before the half-shaft
breaks. I removed both of them two months ago to check them and they were
fine. I haven't done much mileage since (500 miles) and used it almost on a
daily basis.

I guess that the morale of this story is that if you don't want your Landie
to break down, you have to use it. Mine couldn't run around because of a
major brake-fluid leak (I was telling the Esso kid to fill up the brake
fluid  reservoir and to check the fuel...). I was actually taking it out to
bring it to a friend's place to change the master cylinder..... Will have to
wait.

For the LRO's down in California, don't park your Rover in fresh concrete,
it will do the same :)

Michel Bertrand
Sherbrooke, Quebec,Canada

1963 109 Ser IIA (Rudolph)
1968 109 Ser IIA Nada-SW (in the works)
1973 88 Ser III (21st century project)

------------------------------

Subject: computer hazards
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 08:13:50 -0500
From: Ron Franklin <oldhaven@biddeford.com>

-- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

>Anyone aware of the real hazards (other than fire) of spray painting around
operating computers?  Building maintenance just walked in and is spray
painting the ceiling tiles.<
Gee, I thought this was someone talking about their Range Rover.

------------------------------

From: Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com
Date: 12 Jan 96 08:22:06 -0500
Subject: RE: LR instructional video

I just received a similar video from LR, only with Discoveries in it. It was 
filmed mostly during an expedition to the La Porta Maya ruins (or something 
similar) and contains the basics. I imagine all purchasers of Discos last 
year got these a month after buying, no? Of course, I don't know how you 
special order them. Maybe if you buy one of those $400 LR watches they'll 
give you the video for free? If you really want a copy, make sure you don't 
just find a recent Disco buyer in your area and have them copy it for you. 
This would violate copyright laws.  :-)

Mark
 ----------
>From: ib011ca@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us

>Several years ago I saw an ad for an off road instructional video put out
>by LR.  It featured a RR.  Don't remember much else at all except it had
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>Does anyone know how I can obtain one of these?  LRNA  (1800fine
>4wd) operator says all she can do is give me dealer names and numbers.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 8:41:46 EST
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: Time to purchase Seats

Hello all,

O.K. all you series owners out there, I've got the cash saved, and I'm 
ready to place an order for some rear seats to put in my 95 D90.

I need some opinions/sugestions on inward facing jump seats vs bench 
seats. Any advice?

Thanks in advance,
Barnett
Childress
sturbridge, MA.
95 D90

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 07:54:12 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Block heater for 2.25

 Steve Bradke asks:
> anyone have the Zero-start part number which will fit the threaded
plug  behind the manifold????   I remember there was some discussion

Do you have the thread specs? I have the ZeroStart catalog here on my 
desk. I wasn't aware of one to fit. There is one that will fit the 
freeze plug though.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: PZavaletta@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:31:00 -0500
Subject: Mods to Discovery More MPH/HP

Will the person that posted his recent inventive modifications to his 
Discovery, do so again? It mentioned replacing the stock plugs with 
Splitfires, and to where they were gapped, adding 1 quart of Duralube, 
and replacing the air filter with a K&N (be sure and mention what size 
was used). 

Also, do you think these mods would apply to the '95 Range Rover Classic 
(3.9L V8)? 

All comments would be appreciated. 

Peter M. Zavaletta
'95 Alpine White County Classic (aka 'Winston') 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 14:27:43 UT
From: "Douglas Main, jr" <douglastmain@msn.com>
Subject: Chris' Rover Questions Answered

----------
From: 	Douglas Main, jr
Sent: 	Thursday, January 11, 1996 4:37 PM
Subject: 	Your Rover Questions Answered

Chris, 

My name is Doug Main.  I also own a 73 88 as well as a 66 88.  I am one of 
those who works on his own car.  I have been around rovers since conception 
and have been inside nearly every component in a Land Rover.  Here are the 
answers to your questions:
1)  The steam  and oil spatter coming from your filler neck leads me to 
believe that your engine vents are clogged.  The vents I am reffering to are 
the breather cap on the valve cover and the other is the PCV valve (PCV stands 
for Positive Crankcase Ventilation).  If either/both of these devices are 
obbstructed the only place for the internal engine air pressure pressure to go 
is out the filler neck or (God Forbid) the engine seals.  To clean the 
breather on the valve cover I usually remove it from the valve cover, turn it 
up side down, plug the tube on the side with my finger, pour some kerosene 
into the big opening, cover the big opening with my other hand and shake the 
kerosene inside the breather for a few minutes.  After shaking the kerosene 
around I empty the breather and let it sit, right side up, for about half an 
hour to drain.  Then you can install it.
  The PCV valve may have been removed from your car some time ago.  When they 
failed, people usually removed them and plugged the little pipe sticking out 
of the side of the filler neck and plugged the hole at the base of the carb.  
If this is your situation I highly recommend replacing the missing components. 
 All of the parts are available from Rovers North (802) 879-0032.  In the mean 
time you can run a short piece of hose from the small pipe on the filler neck 
and let it hang down along side of the oil pan.  This allows for two things; 
First the engine can vent its pressure; second, the dangling hose will vent 
the fumes under the vehicle rather than in the cab.  If you have a PCV valve 
in place, it could be clogged (most likely with ice becase it is winter).  My  
only suggestion is to remove the parts and bring them in doors,  warm them up 
and clean them thorughly.  The standard Land  Rover PCV valve can be taken 
apart by simply removing the wire clip.  The parts that come off/out are as 
follows:1)  the steel cap.  2)  Rubber diaphragm.  3)  Piston 4) Spring.  
Inspect these parts (especially the rubber diaphragm for holes.  If it has 
holes it has to be replaced.  I believe Rovers North stocks the Diaphram) 
clean them and reassemble.
  I think you would probably want to know what the steam is all about so here 
is a breif explanation:  I will assume that your engine has no internal 
coolant leaks(you would see antifreeze in your oil when you change the oil if 
you had an internal coolant leak).  When  the temperature begins to drop to 
the freezing point an interesting thing happens in the "atmosphere" inside 
your engine.  The moisture in the air inside your engine condenses and forms 
water droplets inside the engine due to the temperature difference between the 
inside of the engine and the  outside air.  The effect  is amplified the 
higher the humidity is (like the humidity when it is snowing or raining.  
Regardless, the water droplets end up in the oil.  When the engine is run, the 
oil and water are forced to mix and form this white/gray foam which is what 
comes out of your engine's breathing orfices.
2)  The answer to your second question is quite simple... your clutch is not 
adjustable.  The adjustment under the fender is only a pedal height 
adjustment.  That adjustment is usally only nessacary when the clutch master 
cylinder is replaced.

If you have any other questions about this email or any other land rover 
problem, please don't hesitate to drop me a line at:
douglastmain@msn.com

Good Luck,
Doug

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 09:39:37 -0500
From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi)
Subject: Disco bumpers/air dams

David Brown wrote:
The Disco has a 1 piece end cap / bumper. I've seen ONE Disco with it
removed (the factory test unit) at the dealer in Phoenix Arizona, and as I
recalled, it looked fine. Actually more rugged looking, more truck like.

My question:
What did this (un)installation do about the side lights mounted in the
front corners?  I'm not recalling if they are directionals (don't think so)
or just running lights.    -Bob

  rvirzi@gte.com             Think Globally. ===
  +1(617)466-2881                            === Act Locally!

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 12 Jan 96  9:24:31 EST
Subject: What do you keep in YOUR tool kit?

Here's a topic for discussion - whatthehell, it's Friday, and this might make 
the basis for a good article.

Those with warranties need not apply.....8*)

What do you put in YOUR tool kit?

Personally, being the ravening paranoid that I am, damn near everything.

Tools: (And all of this fits in an ammo can!)
3/8" socket set, inch/metric to 3/4"/19MM, with extensions and sparkplug socket.
Combination wrench set, inch/metric to 7/8"/19MM
Mole wrench
Water pump pliers
Needlenose pliers
Regular pliers
Diagonal cutters
Crimp/bolt cutter/wire stripper pliers
3/16", 1/4", 5/16" screwdrivers
#1, #2, #3 Phillips screwdivers
Digital voltmeter with spare battery
Jack and lug wrench

Spares: (in the rear storage locker or cab, as befitted by weather resistance)
90-weight oil
10W40
50/50 antifreeze and water
Wire
Electircal lugs
Electrical tape
Duct tape
Distributor baseplate with points (electronic ignition backup)
Form-A-Gasket (new tube)
I will be carrying spare hoses and such when I start doing long-distance trips 
in the old boy, as well as tune-up parts and a spare belt.

With this mess, if there's anything that should be repaired on the side of the 
road goes south, I can do something about it. If it's much worse, I can 
probably hack it to get home. If worse than that.... it's tow truck time.

This is why we have a cell phone....AND a 2-meter transmitter. 8*)

Anbody got any interesting additions to enlighten us with?

   aj"Paranoids R" Us"r

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 08:32:33 -0600
From: William Owen <ib011ca@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us>
Subject:  Auto insurance for Land Rovers -Reply

Just checked on this yesterday for a RR.  Its alot more than for my
Cherokee of the same year( 88).  The RR is about 60% more or $170 per
6mo more than the Cherokee.  Agent attributed the increase to repair
expense. I think I may check around but my current company's rates have
always been good.

------------------------------

From: Gene Sparks <galleryg@techline.com>
Subject: SAVE BIG Money on Land Rover Parts and LR Gear!!!!
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 07:09:17 -0800

First of all I'd like to thank everyone who wrote me for giving me such =
a warm welcome to this group. I think it's unfair the stigma that is =
associated with Rover owners. People just assume your a 'yuppie' or =
rich. While that may be true in some areas with a limited number of =
people, for the most part I think we're all pretty much ordinary. I'm by =
no means rich and it took all the resources I could muster to get my =
much beloved Disco.

Since my disco was purchased for the main purpose of off-road =
expeditions for my family and my business, I naturally wanted to outfit =
it with many back country goodies (expedition rack, brush bar etc.) but =
found that the dealers prices seemed unusually high, so I did my =
research. First I found Rovers North. A great company for sure and =
savings to boot! But then completely by accident I found a Company =
called Euro Parts Ltd. Their prices are significantly less that Rovers =
North and up to 2/3rds less than my local dealer!!! How about a Brush =
bar for $375!
It is an upstart company located in Long Island NY and is run by =
Mohammed and his wife. Mohammed is very knowledgeable having worked with =
Rovers in North Africa for 10 years. He is so friendly, ingratiating and =
eager to provide you with QUALITY service that by the time you're done =
with your order you feel almost sad to hang up the phone. All his parts =
are Genuine LR and his prices can't be beat. Even the call is FREE =
1-800-932-1822. Also if you like Mohammed can be reached by E-mail at =
Com1@ix.netcom.com.

So if you need some parts or Gear for your Rover and want to save a =
bundle and at the same time be treated like Royalty, I hope you'll think =
of Mohammed. Your wallet will thank you. 'Cause after all aren't we all =
just working stiffs looking for a bargain?

Gene 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 08:53:05 -0600
From: William Owen <ib011ca@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us>
Subject:  Re: LR Dealer Disaster -Reply

I think dealer and salesmen vary, just like owners do.

As I've said before, I had a great experiance at the local LR
dealer(Cadillac/LR actually) in Nashville.  Showed up in an old dirty 2dr
Cherokee wearing torn jeans and a t-shirt.  A salesman immediately
walked out hte door to meet me.  I told him I was only looking, probably
wanted a used vehicle, and it might be months before I bought anything. 
He nevertheless took an hour and a half to answer all my questions and
give  me a fantastic, long test drive of a brand new disco, including a off
road segment.  His attitude was like he was investing time now for when
or if I made a purchase down the road.  He didn't even blink when I
crawled under a d90 to have a look.  Only bad thing was he didn't have
much technical knowledge concerning diffs and the like.  
  Best experiance I've had with a dealer, except perhaps Saturn.  And
don't even get me started on the jeep and toyota sales tactics I've
experianced.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 10:23:26 -0500
From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg)
Subject: New WWWeb pages

Just a little shameless self-promotion:

I've posted some more photos and text, this time from the 1995 Mid-Atlantic
Land Rover Rally, to the RoverWeb.  Ben has them up and running now.  Check
it out at
<http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/RoverWeb/Mid-AtlanticII/Middy95.html>

My next RoverWeb project will involve audience participation.  Watch this
space for details.

RoverOn!

JAB

==                                                                      ==
 Jeffrey A. Berg          Purple Shark Media                 Rowayton, CT

                         jeff@purpleshark.com
                          ==================
               My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
          My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
                       Taste for the good life,
                      I can see it no other way.
                                --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)
==                                                                      ==

------------------------------

From: stretch@vol.net
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 22:40:59 PST
Subject: RE: Range Rover back on the road 

wasn't this solved in about 1925?

all the tech talk in the world can't convince me this sort of stuff is in any way, normal.  I find my Defender to be relatively high quality (a few quirks), but the organization seems rather disinterested and self-righteous.

------------------------------

From: stretch@vol.net
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 22:28:31 PST
Subject: RE: LRNA 800 Phone Numbers 

Can we complain about the dopes at 800 fine4wd at this #?

Actually all I want is a place to get legit info...thanks

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:42:24 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: What do you keep in YOUR tool kit?

Alan,
With great regret,I have to inform you,that you are seriously under equipped.
I saw no mention of baler twine,sledge hammer,chewing gum,chainsaw,machine
shop(with generator),crampons,condoms,flares,spare engine,transmission,chassis,
sleeping bag,tent,or hot water bottle.However,the most significant omission,
and one that shocks me to the core,knowing the calibre of man you are,is this.
YOU HAVE NO BEER!What happens if you suffer a hole in the exhaust?Because you
have no beer,you cannot consume a can or two,and proceed to repair said item
by the simple means of wrapping around it,a beer can.
I *plead* with you.For your own safety,do not proceed further than your garden
gate,so ill-equipped are you.

Yours,
Worried
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 07:47:36 -0800
From: russ burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Opening bottles (was: Re: Range Rovers off road)

It takes real talent to drink one of those 2 gallon wine jugs while
fern is falling apart on the trail....
Russ

>Corks? They're supposed to have corks?? All my champagne bottles have screw
>caps!
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>Cheers
>Mike
Russ Burns
cisco/Ford
313-317-0451

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:00:00 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: LR instructional video

There's a video that LRNA sends out when you buy one of their vehicles.  I
got one for my Discovery.  It's called "Discovery Off-Road, Driving La Ruta
Maya," and runs about 15 minutes.  It has some basic off-orad instruction
and some promo.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California

At 16:31 11.01.96 -0600, William Owen wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>Several years ago I saw an ad for an off road instructional video put out
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)]
> Local dealer says their only videos are promo and not for sale.  Anyone
>seen this or know where I can find it?
>Thanks, William

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:00:06 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Auto insurance for Land Rovers

$280 a month!  Wow, that does seem high.

I live in San Francisco and have been paying about $1,000 every six months
for full coverage on a "new" 1995 Discovery.

Cheers!
John

At 15:00 11.01.96 +0000, Carol Clapp wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>I pay a high rate of auto insurance on my Wrangler, about 3x what my husband
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 31 lines)]
>country lane.  High banks, no where to get off the road.
>Thanks for guidance from some of you.  I'm in SF Bay Area.
>Carol

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 08:59:54 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: re:freezing discovery 

Actually I was just giving you a hard time.  :-)   On the other hand US
telephone area codes are probably pretty meaningless to people on this list
who aren't in the United States, and, quite frankly, I myself can only
recognize ones for the major cities or ones I call.  Our snail mail state
abbreviations may be obscure overseas as well.  Anyway, I do agree that it
would be nice if people put their locations on their posts.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California

At 10:57 11.01.96 -0600, Tom Rowe wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>John C. White, III writes: 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)]
> Four wheel drive allows you to get
> stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: RE: LR Warranty
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 10:05:02 MST

barnett childress says:

    Bob,
    I asked my dealer, LRMW in Natick, MA. about voiding the warranty on my 95 
    Defender 90 when if I had Air Lockers installed. The answer I got was the 
    only thing no longer covered would be the differentials the rest of the 
    drivetrain would still be covered by LR.
    Cheers,
    Barnett. 

When I had my dealer install ARB air lockers in my D90 I was told that
broken axles would no longer be covered, but that everything else would be.
The installation itself was covered by a 1 year warranty. I didn't get any
warranty info with the lockers themselves, so...?

--
Jeffrey J. Gauvin		email: jeff.gauvin@symbios.com
Symbios Logic Inc.		Voice: 719-573-3563
1635 Aeroplaza Dr.		FAX: 719-573-3824
Colorado Springs, CO 80916

------------------------------

From: slade@teleport.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 08:58:02 -0800
Subject: Re: What do you keep in YOUR tool kit?

I've kept a beef log and a disposable camera in my car for years, and boy
have they both come in handy!

Oh, and now I keep several plastic dixie cups in the tool chest as well.
They work well for capping up hubs that have been disassembled.  :)

Later,

Michael

------------------------------

From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: Loose valve cover bolts
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 10:19:04 MST

Leland J Roys says:

    I did fail to mention, the only problem I had on my Colorado trip was oil
    leakage from all 4 outside bolts of the valve covers. By the end of the 
    trip it had turned into a pretty good stream of oil.

    Is it normal for the bolts to loosen on there own like that? The trip
    was about 2500 miles total (I have 17500 miles on the Def-90 and took it
    in to Land Rover for the 7500 mile service). 

Normal? I wouldn't expect it, but uncommon - no! I noticed my valve covers were
leaking and had them re-torqued at about 11,250 miles. At the same time I had
to have my oil pan gasket replaced and a bad coolant hose clamp replaced.

Nothing major has broken yet, but I've been to the dealer enough to be on a
first name basis with them. Guess the D90 is a "true Land Rover"

--
Jeffrey J. Gauvin		email: jeff.gauvin@symbios.com
Symbios Logic Inc.		Voice: 719-573-3563
1635 Aeroplaza Dr.		FAX: 719-573-3824
Colorado Springs, CO 80916

------------------------------

From: paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash)
Subject: Re: Opening bottles (was: Re: Range Rovers off road)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 08:23:21 +1100

I asked about open beer bottles on Series Land Rovers, and Mike replied:

> On a Real Land Rover (one with a *metal* dashboard) you use the curled lip
> at the bottom of the dash to pop off the bottle cap.

Alas, I have a Series semi-plushmobile (S III), so cannot use this
clever place.  Short of a pair or pliers, what is the secret of
opening beer bottles on an S III?  

	paul

------------------------------

From: Treit Le <Treit_Le@apprise.com>
Date: 12 Jan 96 11:32:36 
Subject: LR Dealer Disaster

>I am absolutley disgusted by the utter lack of respect given us in that
>dealership......Is this the image that LRNA wants to present?

I went to many dealers in your area (not Pepe though) when shopping for a Land 
Rover. Initially, I knew nothing about the models and asked a lot of questions. 
I quickly got sick of the "holier than thou, we sell every vehicle we get, kiss 
my ass if you want one, fake Britsh accent" attitude. The fact that I look 25 
and tend to dress in combat boots, dirty Levis and T-shirts didn't help. They 
don't want to bargain or nickel and dime and they don't want to waste time 
talking to someone who might not buy, especially this time of year. The dealer 
that I finally bought from was the Glen Cove LR Centre. They are supposedly the 
highest volume LR Centre in the US. They were somewhat willing to deal on 
vehicles that were in stock. And if you paid cash, you could get great deals on 
accessories (ie., front bars w/ installation $400). AFTER I bought my RR, I 
asked for obstacle course rides and test drives in a Defender and a Disco. No 
problem. Service is great with Volvo 850s as loaners. They rented me a 
Pathfinder, because I needed a wagon-type vehicle, at a cost to them of $650 
when I dropped my RR off for a week for mostly warranty work.

Triet Le
'95 Classic
Going to Whistler Saturday, will soon have first hand report on rental Jeep GC:)

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 12:51:17 -0500
Subject: Vehicle for sale....

I found a LR Series II for sale about two blocks from me!  Here are the
particulars from the owner's wife as she knows them:

1965 88" Land Rover Series II
assume that would be a 2.25 petrol
Positive ground
Parts recently replaced: tires, canvas top, hoses, master cyl replaced,
brakes replaced,  rubbers seals, shocks, clutch master, oil filter adapter,
various belts, seals, etc.  Rebuilt carb.
Color: red... but faded to orange.
Runs fairly well..... everything works

The owner has about $2500 recent dollars into it and would like to get enough
to purchase a used car for his son.  I'm guessing between $3k and $4k?

The car was owned by the present owner's wife's father.  I can't vouch for
the frame (yet) but it has been in Arizona for a number of years.  I'm not
sure of the previous location.

I've seen the LR.  It is like others of its age.  The present owner has no
idea of it's value.  And I'm new enough that I don't either.  If anyone would
care to present an opinion, I would certainly appreciate it. 

James Howard of Flagstaff also offered to look at it.  As luck would have it,
he and his girlfirend are on their way back from Tenn in James' MB.  (BGT I
think....)  James??? If you read this call me ASAP.......

If I decide not to make an offer, I'll post the gentleman's name and number.

Thanks...
Gerry

BTW: If you offer an opinion, please copy me directly at gelam30092@aol.com.
 Those are zero's in 30092.  I get the list in digest form and would rather
not wait to see your thought.......

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 12:51:15 -0500
Subject: Rear/worklight

Rick Larson writes "Got a bunch of Safari Gard stuff.  The diff guards work.
 Mine have scars to prove it. So do the rock sliders.  Favorite toy from them
has to be the rear work/backup light though."

Those who were behind you in the darkness of the Mojave especially
appreciated the work/backup light.  When pointed down behind Rick's 90, it
worked especially well in lighting up the trial in complete darkness.

I may have to figure out how to mount one too!

Gerry "Phoenix AZ high today: 80 degrees... a record!" Elam

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jan 96 13:16:28 EST
From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: Mail order phone numbers

     My itchy trigger finger successfully trashed a message from someone on 
     the net for phone numbers of ABP/craddock etc so here goes 
     
      ABP 800 533 2210 -incidentally ABP had computer problems 12/18 and 
     they failed to close their books their computer triggered some charges 
     a second time, result I was charged twice on the credit card for the 
     item. I called the credit card company and they stopped one charge, 
     called ABP and "Barb" told me about the problem and apologized. 
     
     Craddock - tel uk 1543 577207 fax 1543 504818 code for uk is 011 44 
     from the USA
     
     Liverpool LR (who i hate) uk 151 486,8636 fax 151 486,5986
     
     sorry to the person who asked
     chris browne
     brit in boston
     95 disco. have got stuck yet, guess i am not trying hard enough. 

------------------------------

From: "Gerald" <g@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 13:33:30 -0500
Subject: Re: LR Dealer Disaster

On 11 Jan 96 at 15:22, ericz@cloud9.net wrote:
. . . .
> We walked in, looking a little worse for wear because 
> of the snow but nonetheless respectable.  For at least 15 minutes we were 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> the Disco, genuinely interested in what was in stock, pricing and availability 
> of the D90 hardtop.  
. .  . .

Have had similar problems with a Toyota dealer that would not talk 
to women. A friend's wife had a problem buying a car there. Her 
husband went back, found the sales manager and laid it out for him. 
When the wife came back if she was treated well they would buy, if 
she was treated badly that was it. This from a brand with plenty of 
dealers in easy driving distance.

--
Gerald
Massachusetts, U.S.
g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

From: Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com
Date: 12 Jan 96 13:40:07 -0500
Subject: RE: Locking the Differential on a Disco

I have had no difficulty locking and unlocking the center diff while 
rolling, even at speeds up to 40 MPH or more. I have the manual transmission 
and usually just lift off the gas and move her over sharply. Sometimes I 
lock while the clutch is in after downshifting. Don't know if the auto 
tranny has any peculiarites.

One note - make sure your tire pressures are correct. If one or both tires 
on either end differ from the rest, the diff will be diffing and will not 
lock. Likewise, unlocking will be difficult.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 13:59:50 EST
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: She's back!!!

Hello All,
I finally get baby back, today!!! My 95 AA yellow Def90 that has been at 
Rovers North for 4 weeks, with a bad rear end, I mean (diff) is repaired. 

Wahoooo....it's snowing right now and were supposed to get around 6 to 12" 
more of the stuff and I have to drive 40 miles from the dealer home. What 
a shame!!!!!!

Finally playin' in a winter wonderland!
Barnett
Happy  joy 
Childress 

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:00:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Mail order phone numbers

What do you expect from ABP??? seems like there always screwing up something
over there and their parts seem to have problems with fit etc...I would much
rather spend more and deal with Rovers North where theres always a smile and
a friendly voice on the other end.. I have been to AB a few times ( I live
close) and was not at all impressed...you think you get treated lousy at the
dealers???  go there and see

                                                                         Rgds
    Steve 

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:08:00 -0500
Subject: 88"

Just went and looked that the red/orange 88" for sell.  

Several good signs:
  my wife likes it but wants it repainted eventually
  It was parked on a sloping drive and the wheels weren't chocked!
  Very few leaks underneath it
  Frame looks superb
  Body is very straight with only a few dings.
  Driver's side mirrow is still original

Gerry "could it meant to be?" Elam

------------------------------

From: ChrisF6724@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:10:03 -0500
Subject: RE: High lift mounting

In my 88 series 3, I was thinking of mounting it on the bulkhead behind the
seats using large bolts and rubber or neophrane  spacers.  (I know it fits
across the interior).

Another method I've seen jeeps use is drilling holes through the bumper and
mounting it there.  A trick used is to use large enough bolts that you can
then use a anti-theft lock nut (same as used for wheels) to hopefully keep it
from being stolen.  I've also seen this technique used as a theft-deterent on
winch mountings.  Using neophrane body bushings (the ones for body lifts)
makes for a nice spacer to keep the jack from scratching paint...

Chris Fisher '73 LR88 Series 3

------------------------------

From: ChrisF6724@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:10:00 -0500
Subject: RE: South of the Border

I believe Four-Wheeler magazine or 4 Wheel-Drive magazine had a article in
the Feb. issue of a trek down the baja.  Included in the article were tips on
what to expect and bring.  Road conditions are hap-hazard and things such as
old tires are  used to mark a wash-outs in the roads..  Also mentioned was
the gasoline (how good, kind of what to expect to pay, and the Spanish
translation between unleaded and leaded).  Four-Wheeler also was the one with
the off-road basics guide, which had some good things to say about the
fording depth of the Defender (same as the Hummer :-) ) and a article
reviewing the new RR (also a good review).

Chris Fisher

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jan 96 14:16:34 EST
From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: Storing Hi lifts in RR/Discos

     No plans to get one of these tools yet, as hopefully if i ever get 
     stuck I'll be with the club and get winched out (yes I have military 
     tow hooks front and rear on my disco).
     
     But if I did own one, the logical thing to do would be to tie it to 
     the dog guard (LR OEM part bolted to the vehicle) Might have to get 
     the  gun rack to make it work.
     
     BTW do Hi lifts fit into the receiver hitch on NAS lrs? I assume that 
     that is a strong enough place to lift it 
     
     regards
     Chris browne
     
     Wife complains that I drive to fast in the snow, I enjoy getting the 
     ABS to work. 
     Hey disco owners why don't we get together and tape the ABS working 
     (NOISY) and ask 90/series owners to tell us what is wrong with our 
     cars????....... theyll never figure that noise out. hee hee hee
     Losing it in Boston as we prepare for yet another snowstorm 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:24:20 -0800
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: Locking the Differential on a Disco

You're right, you can engage diff lock by moving the lever to the left 
without going to nuetral first (at least I can in my Range Rover).

You say you can't engage diff lock this way.  Exactly what happens when you 
try?  Does the lever fail to move that way, or does the light fail to come 
on?  Keep in mind that diff lock does not necessary engage the instant you 
tell it to.  There's often a delay, the length of which depends on speed and 
traction conditions and who knows what else.

-Matt

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Loose valve cover bolts
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:46:14 -0800

It seems like every time I open the hood of my Discovery (which, I grant you 
is maybe only once a month) there's something that's loose. So far it's 
been, over the past 13,500 miles: valve covers, oil pan, power steering 
fluid reservoir & hose clamps, brush-bar mounting bolts. Nothing 
catastrophic, yet, but if I didn't catch the looser than "finger tight" oil 
pan bolts, it wouldn't be long before I had a big mess and a red idiot light 
coming on! OTOH, the dealer has been very good about replacing the leaky 
gaskets under warranty.

OBTW, where do you get a socket for the valve covers on a Disco, what kind 
of bolt head is that anyway?

Thanks!
----------
From: 	Jeff Gauvin[SMTP:jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com]
Subject: 	Loose valve cover bolts
 
Leland J Roys says:

    I did fail to mention, the only problem I had on my Colorado trip was 
oil
    leakage from all 4 outside bolts of the valve covers. By the end of the 
    trip it had turned into a pretty good stream of oil.

Normal? I wouldn't expect it, but uncommon - no! I noticed my valve covers 
were
leaking and had them re-torqued at about 11,250 miles. At the same time I 
had
to have my oil pan gasket replaced and a bad coolant hose clamp replaced.
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Storing Hi lifts in RR/Discos
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 12:06:24 -0800

>     BTW do Hi lifts fit into the receiver hitch on NAS lrs? I assume that 
>     that is a strong enough place to lift it 
>     regards
>     Chris browne

I bought a receiver mounted shackle (a WARN part). It slips into the 
receiver and I just hook the jack into the shackle. The only problem is that 
the back of the Disco has to be jacked up 2' before the rear wheels come off 
the ground!
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 19:43:17 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Storing Hi lifts in RR/Discos

Chris, 

Storing hi-lift on the dog guard could be dangerous if not clamped down real 
good. A side movement when off road could send the hi-lift through the side 
windows or least could crack / break window. Be careful .

Mark 

----------
From:  Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com
Sent:  Friday, January 12, 1996 2:17 PM
Subject:  Storing Hi lifts in RR/Discos

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

     No plans to get one of these tools yet, as hopefully if i ever get 
     stuck I'll be with the club and get winched out (yes I have military 
     tow hooks front and rear on my disco).
     
     But if I did own one, the logical thing to do would be to tie it to 
     the dog guard (LR OEM part bolted to the vehicle) Might have to get 
     the  gun rack to make it work.
     
     BTW do Hi lifts fit into the receiver hitch on NAS lrs? I assume that 
     that is a strong enough place to lift it 
     
     regards
     Chris browne
     
     Wife complains that I drive to fast in the snow, I enjoy getting the 
     ABS to work. 
     Hey disco owners why don't we get together and tape the ABS working 
     (NOISY) and ask 90/series owners to tell us what is wrong with our 
     cars????....... theyll never figure that noise out. hee hee hee
     Losing it in Boston as we prepare for yet another snowstorm 

------------------------------

From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 12:53:12 -0800
Subject: Re: What do you keep in YOUR tool kit?

Tool Kit that gets loaded for long trips:
- 3/8 socket set short & long sockets, short & long ratchets, breaker bar,
extensions, and torque wrench.
- an assortment of slot & phllip screwdrivers.
- a couple of cresent wrenches and vice-grips
- a set of combination wrenches, with duplicate 1/2 and 9/16 wrenches.
- gas pliers, slip jaw pliers, long nose pliers.
- large diagonal cutters, wire stripper
- continuity tester
- A couple of clip leads
- a tube of blue RTV that comes in the silver tube
- a hand full of rags
- file
- a pice of sand paper
- feeler guages
- hammer
- assorted punches & chissles

Additional Tools that stay home:
- ring pliers
- electric impact wrench & sockets
- compressor. sand blaster, cut off wheel, grinder
- pickle fork
- multimeter
- crimper
- allan wrench set
- electric side grinder

Spares:
- engine oil
- 90 wt
- rear 'U' bolts & nuts
- special hoses
- fan belt
- water pump
- plugs, cap, rotor, points, spark plug wire
- length of insulated electrical wire.
- a bale's worth of baling wire

Probably the most important part;
Before going on long trips or offroading I carefully inspct the car and
check/fill all fluids.  I do the inspection at least two weekends before the
trip so I can have a weekend to do repairs or replacements.  I restrict my
Land Rover to the road or home if I do not think the car is not mechanically
in very good shape.  I check all the fluids just before leaving.  I do not
want to be the one who breaks down.  

I think people lose patience for someone who breaks down every time that they
come out on an offroad meet.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:06:29 -0800
Subject: Re: LR Dealer Disaster -Reply

On Fri, 12 Jan 1996, William Owen <ib011ca@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us> wrote:

I think dealer and salesmen vary, just like owners do....

....  And  don't even get me started on the jeep and toyota sales tactics I've
experianced.

You're right about it being a problem that doesn't confine itself to one marque. 
Some of the more "mainstream" dealers are downright slimy...although they'll at 
least talk to you.

I guess it just hurt more coming from a marque with which I identify.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:02:40 -0600 (CST)
From: "Soren Vels Christensen" <velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: RE: New Discovery model? and comparison test

In message 12 Jan 96 03:56:45 EST,
  Lars Rosenmeier <100670.3705@compuserve.com>  writes:

For your information: I have a photo in front of me of a '96 Land Rover
Discovery pick up with hard top. In Denmark we get a lot of 4X4s that are
converted to pick models because of our special tax rules. Normally the
[snip]

   I believe that the hard tops are made by Nordic Car Import, DK. With
   these hard tops, the Defenders look just like the old 90/110. In order to
   make the pickup stay a pickup they had to cut the back door in two. You'll
   have to look close up to see the difference. Good job indeed. Nice to see
   the box landies with yellow license plates again.

BTW yesterday a danish newspaper (Berlingske Tidende) compared the
[snip]
 	Lars

   Read that too. Finally a test that includes deep mud puddles and 1.5 ton
   trailers. They used a military exercise area for the test.
   Damn good reading!

cheers
sv/aurens

PS: A co. here used to make pick-ups from Mercedes sedans to knock the tax.
One used to park 200 metres from where i live. "Wouldn't haul manure in
anything less".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 18:27:12 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Bad advertising

Robert Virzi wrote about LRNA:

>"Due to weather, LRNA offices are closed today...."

Jeez, that is about the *worst* possible advertising possible.  Better that 
the recording had said "...sorry, we are all out pulling out ambulances/  
unsticking the Presidential limo/saving civilization as we know it..." 
rather than "closed due to the weather."  There was that nifty image of the 
D-90 on the empty streets of NY, though.
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 18:58:08 -0500
From: Joseph Broach <calas@utkux1.utk.edu>
Subject: Re: land Rover camping

Dear RoverCampers,

					Since I own an 88 and do a lot of camping, I am very interested 
in the 'cots' TeriAnn mentioned which stretch across the bulkhead. 
If anyone has any further information on them or has found another 
interesting way to sleep in their 88, please e-mail me.

					Joseph Broach
	    <calas@utkux.utk.edu>
					Knoxville, Tennessee
					'67 IIa 88" (limestone,marine blue,pastel green,poppy red,etc.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:17:07 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: 2.25 7:1 to 8:1 petrol rebuild

Well now that the Turner is in place and I have a spare 2.25l on my 
hands...

I've decided to rebuild the 2.25 7:1.  The rebuild will include 
converting to unleaded for the head.  I'm seriously considering doing a 
full effort rebuild including balancing the crank, flywheel, etc.  
However, I'm not entirely sure what can/should be done to refine stock 
parts.  I'm not interested in "hot rodding" the engine (e.g, installing 
a 2.5l cam :) ).  I'm more interested in doing as high a quality 
rebuild as possible using genuine parts treated as necessary.  Low end 
torque is more important that increased hp (with the new 65mph limit 
traveling at the limit is probably hopeless anyway :)).  
The general open question I have is what can be done to standard parts 
to optimize their performance (what would people add to the fill in the 
etc. above)?  What should I be looking to do apart from the afore 
mentioned (equal weight components? a particular valve type? decking 
the block?).  Any recommendations?  Any good references on general 
principles of "high performance" rebuilding?

Also I've a parts question.  [OK I'm being resource lazy; my excuse is 
the parts books are not within reach].  In upgrading the 2.25l to 8:1 
compression did Land Rover change the cam?  I'm planning on rebuilding 
the 7:1 to and 8:1 and need to know if the cam (or anything else for 
that matter) needs replacing with a different part or will a straight 
forward head swap or shave do?

Cheers and thanks,

Jeremy

------------------------------

From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com
Subject: re: Increasing Discovery's Gas Mileage
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 17:24:03 PST

>I'm a proud new owner of a 96 Discovery
>I've recently made a few minor additions to the disco that have =
>given me an increase of 5 MPG so I thought as my first post to this =
>group I'd share this info with all of you. First of all I replaced the =
>stock champion plugs (YUK) with Splitfires and gapped them at .038.
 
>Secondly I changed my oil and =
>replaced it with 1 quart of "Duralube" and the remainder with 10-40w =
>Castrol Syntech Synthetic oil.

>And finally and most importantly I =
>replaced the Air filter with a K&N lifetime filter. The parts stores =
>will tell you that there is no application for a discovery, but I found =
>out that the air filter that is used in the Discovery is identical to =
>the one that is used in an 86-91 944 Turbo Porshe.

  You know, I'd be worried about some of the modifications you've made.
First of all, since you have a near-brand-new vehicle, your engine isn't
fully broken in. I don't think you're supposed to use Duralube or synth
oil until after you've driven something like 10,000 miles. Another issue
is that you might get more oil leaks with the synth oil.

  Also, with the non-standard plugs and the oils you've added, the dealer
might not honor your warranty if anything goes wrong with the engine.
Do you really want to risk this on a $35K vehicle? Finally, I think
if these simple changes would bring a Discovery up to 19 MPG without
any negative effects, the factory would've already done it.
  
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Peng                                     (408)765-7863
Intel Corporation
Design Technology, Physical CAD
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: stretch@vol.net
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 09:03:17 PST
Subject: Defender lamp guards

Recently, I ordered a pair of RTC8969 lamp guards through the LR dealer here in Hong Kong.  I have now received the product.  Description follows:

Catalog lists them as black nylon covered steel and a picture makes them look like a stand-alone wire strip version of the brush-bar mounted versions.

I reality, the units are incredibly heavy duty...they are indeed nylon covered steel.....steel plate, not wire!  Each weighs about 5 to six pounds and is formed of welded blades of steel in a steel frame.  

Each guard mounts directly to the body/wing, completely cageing the headlamp and utility lamps.  They hinge down for lamp cleaning;  hinges are simple captive loop units...nothing fancy.  Upper attachment is via nut-serts...complete installation supplies are bubble packed in kit.  From the looks of it, some form of dust cap would be a good measure for the rear of the nut-sert, just to avoid binding.

In the event of a head-on with a boulder, these will likely be the only undamaged areas on the vehicle!

The entire kit costs equivalent of about $283.00 US...steep, but can't argue re quality and fit...
bye

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 18:15:20 -0800
Subject: re: Increasing Discovery's Gas Mileage
From: Hugo Madden <madhugo@best.com>

>  Also, with the non-standard plugs and the oils you've added, the dealer
>might not honor your warranty if anything goes wrong with the engine.

You'll definitely lose your warranty if you don't change the oil at the 
specified intervals (Auto manufacturers haven't yet got turned on to the 
benefits of synth.)  Changing synth at 7,500 mile intervals is going to 
blow most of the savings that you think you're getting from your gas 
mileage improvements!

>Do you really want to risk this on a $35K vehicle? Finally, I think
>if these simple changes would bring a Discovery up to 19 MPG without
>any negative effects, the factory would've already done it.

                                                        _______
                                                       //_/_|__\___
                                                       \_ - ___ - _d 
                                                         (o)   (o)

------------------------------

From: Mark M Herrick <mherrick@ptialaska.net>
Subject: Towing Series III
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 17:10:19 -0900

Hello all,
   I am looking into buying a Series III in pretty good shape. I have =
been through it pretty thoroughly and have found a few minor problems =
but they are all ones that I can live with and fix.
  The guy selling it has towed it behind his RV, probably for a lot of =
miles, with all four wheels on the ground and has even welded a tow bar =
on the front bumper for this purpose. Does the Landi take well to this =
sort of towing or am I looking at possible gearbox or axle problems in =
the future??
  Any other pointers to look for before putting down the money would be =
much appreciated!

Mark Herrick

Hopefully soon to be SIII
Kodiak, Alaska.
  

------------------------------

From: HMEdwards@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 22:14:44 -0500
Subject: D90 Station Wagons

I passed by the local Land Rover dealer here in Las Vegas and noticed two new
D90 Station Wagens, both in Alpine White.  Sweet!  Now if I could find the
32,000 to pick one up.  They were working on selling one and the other was
not spoken for.  So for those of you wanting the latest in a series vehicle,
 call Chaisson Motors in Las Vegas.  The salesman said they were going for
sticker and with the competition coming out of casinos with fresh money, that
is the normal story here in town.  Hurry before someone else finds them.

Harry Edwards
72 Series III
Las Vegas

------------------------------

From: Gene Sparks <galleryg@techline.com>
Subject: Wrong Phone number for Euro Parts Ltd.
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 19:15:42 -0800

The correct # for Euro Parts Ltd. is 1-800-274-4830. Sorry about that chief.

------------------------------

From: ecoethic@rcinet.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 22:19:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Snobbery

The issue of lack of respect for people who do not appear to be =93seriou=
s
customers=94 (read that dressed well, arriving in sufficiently expensive =
vehicle) at
Land Rover dealerships will not go away unless LRNA does something about =
it.
Unfortunately, I think we have an ice-cubes=92 chance in Death Valley of =
ever seeing
that happen. For instance, I seriously doubt that anybody from Land Rover=
 North
America management (or any other continent) is active on this list, excep=
t for our
two salesmen (who get mixed reviews). If I am wrong will the offended per=
son(s)
please send us a message to clarify your presence. If I am right, we will=
 assume
your lurking silence to be the equivalent of non-existence. You effete in=
sulting
snobs owe Eric and his father a profound apology, not to mention the many=

hundreds of others!

If we were not so spread out I would recommend picketing particularly off=
ensive
dealerships. (I=92m getting hot now) Hey, how about instead of going on a=
 rally to
some remote spot we assemble at the worst dealerships to picket the basta=
rds for a
few days! What have we got to lose? Our big discounts on do-it-yourself p=
arts;
parts for Series Rovers? (Someday D90=92s and Discoveries will be old too=
, do you
guys want to be treated the way we are now?) I am sure this list could wh=
ip-up a
top-ten list of insensitive dealers without too much trouble.

I=92m glad I=92m spending the price of a Range Rover on my education; it =
gives me one
more excuse to never consider buying a new Rover anything! And to think t=
hat
Land Rover used to stand for utility, practicality, and spartan functiona=
l design.

Walter Pokines
Tipp City, Ohio, USA
Series Fanatic, Hater of Snobbery

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Snobbery
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 19:53:55 -0800

Re: snobbery.

a) LRNA seems to actively promote snobbery

so I wouldn't hold my breath expecting them to change things from that end 
after all they are pushing  $50+/- 15 thousand dollar vehicles. In marketing 
terms, that's snob country, folks, like it or not. (LRO netters excluded, of 
course :-). 

b) Vote for your favorite dealer with your dollars

While there's tremendous, though fleeting, satisfaction in "getting even" 
with the kahki-clad fools that pass for salespeople at some of the 
aforementioned dealerships it really is a waste of effort. As one friend of 
mine used to say, "you can't polish a turd" so why waste the effort. I think 
the best application of emotions and net.bandwidth is to identify the good 
ones and the less-than-good so that the former are rewarded for their 
efforts and manners while the others get what they've earned (i.e. an empty 
showroom!)

This list provides a powerful and effective tool to facilitate the above. 
That's one of the reasons I like it.
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Snobbery 
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 20:30:57 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Robert Watson wrote:

> I think 
> the best application of emotions and net.bandwidth is to identify the good 
> ones and the less-than-good so that the former are rewarded for their 
> efforts and manners while the others get what they've earned (i.e. an empty 
> showroom!)

	OK, let's do something.  Someone on the list is compiling/typing a 
list of dealers and promises to email me a copy to put on the RoverWeb.  When
I get that list, I'll solicit responses from all of you.  The compiled version
will be posted here and on the RoverWeb.  (To be fair, I'll include all 
comments about specific dealerships)

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:07:46 -0500
From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas)
Subject: Re: 2.25 7:1 to 8:1 petrol rebuild

>  What should I be looking to do apart from the afore 
>mentioned (equal weight components? a particular valve type? decking 
>the block?).  Any recommendations?  Any good references on general 
>principles of "high performance" rebuilding?

Jeremy,
What you're doing is essentially "blueprinting" the engine.  There is an
excellent text called
Engine Blueprinting and when I come across it in my stuff, I'll post the
author, ISBN.
This can get as involved as you want it to be based on your dollars and
motivation. Balancing is essential, yet there are many things involved with
building a performance engine that are related to increasing efficiency,
such as polishing intake passages, etc. and these are the ones you want to
concentrate on and apply to the standard components.  Plenty of info out there.

> 7:1 to and 8:1 and need to know if the cam (or anything else for 
>that matter) needs replacing with a different part or will a straight 
>forward head swap or shave do?

I don't think the cam is different, at least when I went from 7:1 to 8:1 I
didn't change it and 
everything was fine.  .100 inch is required to be removed from the head to
up the ratio.  The only parts that will change are the pushrods. They need
to be shorter of course.

Oh, if you opt for shaving the hundred thou off the head, make sure the shop
magnafluxes 
before AND after milling.  This is alot of meat to remove and sometimes
flaws in the casting 
which were not apparent before can appear.
Cheers, Randall

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 21:17:16 -0800
Subject: Re: Opening bottles (was: Re: Range Rovers off road)
From: Hugo Madden <madhugo@best.com>

>Alas, I have a Series semi-plushmobile (S III), so cannot use this
>clever place.  Short of a pair or pliers, what is the secret of
>opening beer bottles on an S III?

Just bite the bullet and install a dash-mounted bar-style opener.  Think 
of how it'll boost the resale value!

                                                        _______
                                                       //_/_|__\___
                                                       \_ - ___ - _d 
                                                         (o)   (o)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 21:18:43 -0800
Subject: RE: High lift mounting
From: Hugo Madden <madhugo@best.com>

>In my 88 series 3, I was thinking of mounting it on the bulkhead behind the
>seats using large bolts and rubber or neophrane  spacers.  (I know it fits
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>makes for a nice spacer to keep the jack from scratching paint...
>Chris Fisher '73 LR88 Series 3

Are we still talking bottle openers or did I miss something here?

                                                        _______
                                                       //_/_|__\___
                                                       \_ - ___ - _d 
                                                         (o)   (o)

------------------------------

From: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu
Subject: Fuel pumps and heaters...
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 01:44:47 -0500 (EST)

	After successfully removing both front wings from my new 2.25L petrol
'71 SIIA, I ran into a couple items that had me slightly puzzled. Aside from
gaining even greater respect for Liquid Wrench (What, BTW, do other people
use), I had a good look at the condition of the mechanical fuel pump and
heater assembly.

	One of the previous owners decided to bypass the mechanical fuel pump
opting to install a small electric pump. The electric pump is noisy and
malfunctioning. Occasionally it will just shut off. Turning off power, walking
away for ten minutes, and turning the ignition switch on sometimes restores
fuel flow. More often it's a crap shoot. For a little while I, quite honestly,
thought the pump would work again if I merely took out the ignition key and
re-inserted it, as it seemed to work too many times to be simple coincidence!
Well, that theory was shot down after the pump quit altogether for an extended
period of time.
	The original mechanical pump is still on the engine. It's just not
used. A recent issue of LRO International had an article on re-building fuel
pumps. With the wings off, I mangaged to get a socket in there and rip the
sucker out. It seems to be in fairly good condition. Only opening it up will
tell more. One thing it is missing, however, is the glass sediment bowl. After
that lengthy preface, where can I get the sediment bowl part of the pump? Is
it sold separately?

	This one's quicker. I removed the severly rusty blower assembly from
the truck's heater. It's got a side intake style heater. What brand is it? The
blower says Smiths, so I'm assuming the whole assembly is a Smiths, but I was
under the impression that the round interior heater was the Smiths. The core
is a flat block of radiating fins. What does a Kodiak look like?

	Anyone know how to release a brake drum screw? One of mine is seized,
and no amount of Liquid Wrench has worked, so far. I'm wary of applying the
propane torch due to the brake parts inside. Anyone see a major problem with
this?

							Jeff Goldman
							(Boston, MA)

E-Mail: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu

------------------------------

Subject: Land Rover movie sighting
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 23:05:37 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

	For whoever is keeping the list.

	There is a Range Rover mkII (4.0SE or 4.6HSE) in "Two if by Sea".
(Or was that "Three if by Land Rover"?  :)

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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