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Subject: 1997 Panama Alaska Rally (fwd) 
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 00:27:39 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@ridgecrest.ca.us>

	This got sent to me as RoverWeb Admin.  I thought I'd pass it on
in case any Rover people were interested.

Ben
bens@vislab.navy.mil
bens@ridgecrest.ca.us

------- Forwarded Message

From: Steve Lewis <http://www.nets.com/skinm@unix.nets.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 15:14:52 -2400
Subject: http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/RoverWeb/

Hello Benjamin,
Nice site. I wanted to let your organization know about an exciting event 
for 4X4 owners. In June of 1997 the Panama Alaska Rally will be run and 
will, for the first time, include a "Touring" class specifically set up 
for 4X4 (and appropriate 2 wheel drive) vehicles. The rally is aimed at 
competitive rally cars of 1970 or earlier vintage, the touring class is 
for everyone else interested in testing their skills and machine on 7,500 
miles of road. The rally will be run over 26 days and the touring class 
will be run over the same course, the same special stages, read from the 
same FIA caliber road book and given the same support as the competitive 
class. The only differences are the touring class doesn't require a rally 
prepared race car, your stout Discovery will do, and it doesn't require 
an FIA competition license, a valid drivers license is all that's needed. 
I would appreciate you letting your members know about this opportunity. 
For more information please e-mail me at the above address or write to 
me; Steve Lewis, 1916 Camino Lumbre, Santa Fe NM, 87505 / (505)473-9002. 
Or, check out the Panama to Alaska Rally Web site  - 
http://www.mindspring.com/~aarons/rally.html
 Thanks, sl

------- End of Forwarded Message

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jan 96 03:29:07 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: 4X4 in Sinai (was:Andrew Grafton)

 > Turns out that apparently you cant take "foreign" diesels into the Sinai
 > region of Egypt.So they had to be shipped round.Although they *were*
 > considering replacing the diesel heads with petrol just to get them in
 > and then replaing the petrol heads once inside....academics..jeez!
...
> Also,4X4 vehicles are forbidden in the Sinai,too,and the only way round
> *that* one is to remove the front propshaft,and the 4WD lever *and* the

I know that those are the official regulations... and yet: Sinai is *full*
of 4X4's, diesels, and diesel 4X4's, both local and foreign! Why? Because
egyptian border guards frankly don't give a frigid fart if the bakhshish is
right. We travelled Sinai (and the rest of Egypt), naturally in Land Rovers,
and one of them was a TDi. No problem whatsoever.
There is one catch, perhaps: It makes a difference whether you enter Sinai
from Isreal, or via Jordania (Ferry from Aqaba to Nuweiba). We did the latter
and had no problems whatsoever on arrival in Egypt, no-one even asked or
cared. This diesel thing has a simple reason: Diesel in Egypt costs less than
one-tenth of the price in Israel, and apparently after the border opening
following Camp David, isreali motorists swarmed into the now egyptian Sinai
by the thousands daily and virtually sucked up the region's entire diesel
supply on a regular basis. The ensueing diesel ban was intended to put an
end to this, and so it did. But of course you could surely persuade the
guys at the border that as a tourist in transit this ban logically shouldn't
apply to you. Problem is that the ban is enforced from *both* sides, egyptian
as well as israeli. While the Egyptians are usually friendly, flexible and
corrupt, the Israelis are rather rigid and stubborn and not easily persuaded.

The 4X4 ban also has a 'historical' origin: The UN outposts surveilling the
demilitarized zone along the Sinai egypto-israeli border found it increasingly
difficult to distinguish between - forbidden - movement of military vehicles
of either side and tourists - mainly Israelis in old battered army Jeeps -
romping about in the deserts and canyons. Whenever they followed up a
complaint by the Egyptians about alleged Israeli military intrusion into
the DMZ, they usually came upon a bunch of isreali kids having fun offroad.
Another, more serious, problem are old Israeli landmines which can still
be found at once strategically sensitive spots. When retreating from Sinai,
the Israelis left all their military installations including all plans,
maps etc. intact for the Egyptians to take over, as provided in the Camp
David agreement. Among these were also the plans of the exact locations
of mines. When the egyptian troops did move in they were so enthusiastic
that in their first frenzy of victory and achievement they immediately
torched and blasted any israeli installation they came across. Apparently
the Israelis didn't keep any copies of their plans (or so they say), so
the mine displacement plans were eventually lost. Therefor there is still
the real possibility of hitting a mine when venturing too far away from
well-trodden territory in the Sinai. Though a lot of mines have meanwhile
been cleared 'naturally' by being touched off by goats, sheep and bedouins,
there are still plenty hidden.
Hence the ban on all 4X4's which is still officially in effect.

As I said, if you enter into Sinai via the Aqaba-Nuweiba ferry (US $ 250.-
one way, bit of a rip-off) and disembark in Nuweiba, well away from the
Israeli border and the DMZ, none of this is a problem.

Talking about problems, I heard some months ago that the ferry Aqaba-
Nuweiba was damaged by fire.  I don't know whether the ship (there was only
one running) has been replaced, repaired, or if perhaps, following the
opening of borders between Israel and Jordania at Eilat, service has ceased
altogether.  Of course then again you would have the problem of having to
enter Sinai via Israel.

Cheers,

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Discovery Ground Clearance
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 01:35:22 -0800

>From: 	rpeng@cadev6.intel.com[SMTP:rpeng@cadev6.intel.com]
>Subject: 	Discovery Ground Clearance

>One thing that strikes me about the Discovery is that it
>rides on rather small tires. 
As compared to what? The stock tires have about a 30" diameter. They look 
small because the body's so tall. 

>The ground clearance doesn't
>seem to be better than most mini-vans. LRNA likes to promote
>the Discovery as a serious offroader; how does it get by? 
Says who? Off the lot they have about 8.5" at the lowest point, but more 
importantly, the Disco's undercarriage is much cleaner than almost all other 
4wd's (except for the HUMMER, perhaps) in that none of the "vital organs" 
hang below the frame rails and there's a minimum of thing attached below the 
bottom of the axle housing. Compare this to any american SUV and you'll see 
all kinds of thing hanging under the bottom, necessitating skid plates.

>If you take a look at a typical U.S. 4WD magazine, almost
>every truck featured has a lift and large tires.
And if you look in a muscle magazine, everyone has a washboard abdomen. 
These magazines tend to cater to the extreme. There are other mags that 
cater to owners and fans of "real-world" 4WD's as well.

>Due to limited wheelwell space, I don't think it would be easy to fit
>larger tires on a Discovery, nor do I know of any lift kits made
>for this vehicle. Would anyone care to comment regarding this issue?
The limitation of fitting larger tires to a Disco is due more to the 
tremendous wheel travel. There are lift kits available for LR's, though, for 
those that feel they need them. However, since the market for them is so 
small compared to Fords and Jeeps in the US, you don't tend to see them 
advertised much in the American 4WD mags.
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

From: paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash)
Subject: Opening bottles (was: Re: Range Rovers off road)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:41:17 +1100

> From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>
> 	That's because he couldn't open his beer on the dash.  I've since 
> found a point on the SIII (and SIIA, SII..) that will do the same thing
> so he's lost that point.

Where?  How?  Tell all!  I have been searching for years, breaking
the occasional neck off bottles (you have to drink carefully to
avoid blood in your beer), and was even tempted to fasten a large
bar-counter opener to the back cross-member (next to the high-
lift bracket).

------------------------------

From: jve@phaseone.dk
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 12:09:12 
Subject: Re: Series Rim questions

Jim

A month ago I got new tubeless 235/85 tires on the 16" rims of my 1972 Series 
III 109 STW. I have no problems at all. As long as the rims are in reasonably 
good condition and free from rust, you should be ok.

Now about the 65000 dollars ... ?

Jens Vesterdahl
Copenhagen, Denmark

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Small World
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 07:08:00 EST

Ben wrote:-
 Is Alistair the son of Dave "you can pull a Rover 2.25L engine in 45
minutes using only open ended wrenches (or so he claimed to learn when he
pulled
Brett Storey's engine 3 times in the same day)" and "101 FC" Lowe from
Toronto?

Ben, (checking to see how really small the Rover world is)
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------  
 ---
 -
Yes and it was Brett's frameover done in the weekend

Trevor "see you all in Maine this year" Easton

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 7:20:22 EST
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:freezing discovery

Chris,
Sorry to hear about your "Crisis in Vermont"! Wow sounds like something on 
the nightly news? "Crisis in Vermont"..... Count on ABC to keep you up to 
date and continually interrupt the regularly scheduled broadcasts, until 
we beat this to death or run out of speculations!

I believe I can offer some advice for most of your "major setbacks".

1- Get some synthetic oil in that baby! Transmission, transfer, diffs, 
swivel balls, power steering. Big difference in cold weather performance! 
Really!

2- Put some washer fluid in thats rated for colder temps! or have your 
wife get out and throw the snow on the windshield, preferably when the 
vehicle is not moving!!!!

3- Replace that plastic cap immediately!! Without that cap to maintain 
proper balance between your front wheels you could "loose control of your 
sport utility vehicle, and because of its inherent higher center of 
gravity could result in a rollover or crash"!!!!!!!!! 

4- Maybe I could save you all the heartbreak and offer to purchase this 
troublesome vehicle from you?   

Good luck and hang in there Land Rover life is a troubled life!!

Barnett
It must be nice to drive a Landrover, I'm starting to forget!
Childress.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 7:31:54 EST
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:: D90 seats/Console

The best weather resistant and lockable console for the D90 is an after 
market unit from Tuffy. It is made out of steel, powder coated I believe, 
larger, and really locks up tight. If I were going to replace my center 
console this is what I would upgrade to. Someone on the list has already 
installed this console and reported a "step by step how too" and seemed 
very satisfied with it.

Cheers,
Barnett
95 D90  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 07:47:26 -0500 (EST)
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: FYI: : Bimini top all season, D90

Comments :

------------------------[ Original Message ]--------------------
To		: smtp@Eng@EMCHOP1[<rosenbau@u.washington.edu>]
Cc		: 
From		: barnett childress@Eng@EMCHOP1
Date		: Wednesday, January 10, 1996 at 7:46:09 am EST

Dave,

Thanks for the advice on the surrey top! Were getting more snow as I write 
this and another major storm this Friday! Lot's of winter driving 
accidents, most with 4WD vehicles! Seems that the average mentality around 
here is "I have 4WD so I'm invincible"! These nuts forget that they too 
have to eventually come to a stop and 4WD does nothing for braking at 
65MPH!

I can't wait for summer!!!!!!!

Looks like there will still be plenty of snow to play in when I get my Def 
back from RN......... Now if I could just get up my driveway.

>From Sturbridge, MASS.
Home of the 4WD mall hopping idiots!

Cheers,
Barnett

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 8:00:37 EST
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:Re: Differentials

Bennett,
Hummers have open diffs. They also double the available torque at each 
wheel somehow. ARB has just come out with a version of their Air Locker 
for Hummers!

Barnett.

------------------------------

From: BDaviscar@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 08:17:02 -0500
Subject: Re: D90 rattles

For all you who own D90's with rattles, and that  have friends with Series
Anything.

Go for a long ride with them at highway speeds. after that you won't notice
your rattes so much.

Bruce  Chicago    (what did you say?)
67 SIIA 88  Patches   (the loud inside one.) 

------------------------------

From: jpappa01@interserv.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 05:34:48 -0800
Subject: Re: ABS

Some confusion on an earlier posting about *passive and active* ABS on RR vs. 
Disco. Both are correct. Yes the performance characteristics of the two 
vehicles are the same in that they are true *4-channel/4-wheel* systems.

Confusion exists probably about the ABS pumps. On RR it operates full time. 
Owners know this. You know the humming noise that you hear occasionally which 
lowers in frequency and cuts out every few minutes! That is the ABS pump 
cycling. On DISCO, the ABS relies primarily on a vacuum reservoir to enable 
the system. It is lower in cost to manufacture this system - but does not 
compromise performance! Ever notice the different brake pedal *feel* between 
RR and Disco. RR has very hard pedal, brakes at top of stroke. Disco has more 
of a *traditional*  progressive pedal feel. The reason is in the execution of 
the ABS system. So, both posts were *correct.*

Cheers
Jim - sittin' here looking at still more snow!

`67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid
`67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid
`68 2B 110 F/C Diesel
`70 P6B 3500S
`90 Range Rover County
`93 D110 (#457/500)
`95 D90 #1958

------------------------------

From: howtaw@hg.uleth.ca
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 02:01:59 MST
Subject: Ice & Snow

A lot of submissions have sounded like worst winter stuck entries of late.

So heres my worst winter stuck.

	One fine sunny November morning myself and a friend set forth in my
first (running) Land Rover to explore an area due west of Waterton Lakes
National Park (thats in Southern Alberta about 50-75km north of Montana).
The temp was about -5C clear skies and a light wind from the west.  Road
conditions were very good, no sign of trouble.  Then at about 9:00am a roaring
wind struck from the west and whipped up the snow to near white out levels.
Eager to see what the Rover could get through we pressed on.  The road become 
very slick and we observed a heard of cattle that was literally stuck up to
their necks in snow.  Shortly after this conditions be came so extreme that
I was forced to stop because we could not tell if we where on the road or not.
We sat in the Rover for about an hour watching several the snow buildup inside
as it blew in through every imaginable crack it could find.  At this point we
decided we had better try to turn around.  The engine did not turnover very
well but it did start.  I then atempted to back up, tires just spun, tried
to move foward, more spinning tires, what gives?  (There is still a total
white out in action at this piont)  We force open the doors against the wind
and both get blow over by the force of the wind (latter equiry at Envi Canada
showed that winds in the area reached 170km!!!!!!!!) My friend pulled himself
back into the Rover and would not again exit it due to feeling that he would 
be blow away from the Rover and become lost/dead.  I weigh 290lb and I was
reduced to crawling on my hands and knees, the one time I stood I was soon 
on the ground again and unable to see the Rover for several minutes untill 
I saw it between gusts, I was only about four metres away.  At this time I 
found the problem that was preventing the movement of the truck,  it had
become surronded by about a foot of wind packed snow.  Due to the wind it took
over two hours to dig the Rover out because the wind was blinding me, I still
could not stand and the snow would blow back into the holes as fast as I could
dig them.  In the end I got the vehical free by digging on at the front of the 
Rover, the windward side, and the wind then took over and blew all the snow out
from under the truck.  The remaining snow was so packed that I was able to 
then push the Rover sideways out of the remaineder with a jackall, the base 
of the jack had only drift packed snow to push against because I had it at
90 degrees to the ground.  With the Rover now Free of the Drift I started it
, again it did not run well and the alt light now come on, and backedup and 
turned sideways to the wide.  Now it got really wild!  The Rover begain to 
move sideways down the road (on level ground) and started to really pickup
speed, it then hit another drift and stopped.  I then turned off the engine 
due to its funny running and the alt light.  We waited about another hour or
so and the vissibility got better and the wind died down to about 100km.  At
this point I got out to take a look under the hood.  I should have waited 
until the wind dropped some more because when I opened the hood a major gust
lifted it and the spare tire out of my hands and threw it about 10 feet away
into the snow.  This then reviled the engine problem in all of its glory.
The entire engine compartment was a solid mass of ice and snow.  It was so 
completely incased that the fan and alt could not turn and after I had
dug and chipped the front of the engine free I found that the belt had been
burn through buy the main pully.  The wind let off some more and I was able
to replace the belt with a spare and I gru
dragged the hood back over and fought it into place.  The engine now ran a lot
better and we started heading out of there.  All of the ice under the hood now
begain to melt and this led to several engine shut downs due to carb icing.
During the last of these melt downs we where within sight of a farm and the 
farmer came out and invited us in for awhile.  He had been hit worse than us
by the wind, his pig barn had blown down and every pig but one died in less
than 30min from exposure.  Made us think about what could have happened to 
us.  We thanked the farmer and headed home a couple of hours latter, had 
to crash some drifts and such but with the wind gone there where no more
problems.  Total stuck aprox eight to ten hours a wild story that most
do not belive and a few pictures to prove it.

Andrew Howton

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jan 96 08:41:57 EST
From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com>
Subject: DIFF GUARDS RE: MARK TALBOTS QUESTION

Safari Gard 909-698-6114 sell the diff guards that were seen a Mission Viejo LR.
They are a very stout unit and are easily installed. I believe the price is $90
for one or $150 for two.
I have seen them as well as all the SG accesories for the Disco and can vouch
for the fit and quality-top notch stuff. Ihave a set of their Rock Sliders and
am very impressed.

							Mark Ritter
							94 Disco...
							Keeps getting better

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 05:52:09 -0800
Subject: Re: Cranks

Gerald asks: 
> Speaking of cranks which LR's can be started with a hand operated 
> crank? 
Well the stage 1 V8 has provision for crank starting but getting it started
is another matter....  I have 2 bent crank handles waiting to be straightened
and reinforced, then I might try again.. Dont seem to be able to get it
spinning fast enough to catch, any suggestions.
-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)
 
I really haven't had much problem starting my Stage I with a crank.  I just get 
it up against the 'compression' and give it a 1/3 turn upward and it usually 
starts.  I've done this on numerous occasions with quite a few surprised people. 
 At the Downeast Rally, I couldn't tell if the engine had started because of the 
airplane noise!  It probably depends quite a bit on the particular engine.  
higher compression might make this much more difficult.

Being involved with older antique cars (pre-1916) leads me to stress something: 
 NEVER, NEVER push down on the crank.  Sooner or later you will break your arm 
when the engine kicks back.  Always pull up when cranking an engine.

Eric

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Differentials
From: David.Tinley@bbc.co.uk (Dave Tinley)
Date: 10 Jan 96 14:12:48 EST

 Attn: "barnett childress" & Bennett 

I think Hummers use Portal axles ala Unimog, which give higher ground 
clearance and torque doubling at the wheel.  Just the thing for deep 
wading & hill climbing!

 
       _______ 
      [____|\_\==              David.Tinley@bbc.co.uk
      [_-__|__|_-]           
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__.._        'keep it on all fours'
                                  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:50:32 -0500
Subject: Fwd: re:D90 rattles
From: "Andrew A. Dallas" <adallas@systemsoft.com>

> My D90 has quite a few rattles. Most come and go. Sometimes I think 
> they're coming from the inertial reel seatbelt things. Nothing has fallen 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> doing, Dave." (I don't even think about what the neighbors must be thinking)
> -David

I've tracked down a few rattles in my D90. It appears that the rear latch 
rattles because of a defective bolt in the top gate hinge. The other 
rattle is the back seat against the square metal retaining brackets - the 
ones that keep the seat from folding forward. I haven't come up with a 
good fix yet but I'm planning on trying dome of those plastic door 
protectors.
-AD

*************************************************
            Andrew A. Dallas
            Full Spectrum Software
            360 Market St.
            Suite 18
            Brighton, MA 02135
            (617) 782-9829
            on-site office: (508) 647-2948
            adallas@tiac.net
            http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/
*************************************************

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:49:00 -0500 
From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" <chrisz@bnr.ca>
Subject:  re:freezing discovery 

>From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
>Subject: freezing discovery 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>     could hear a thump thump thump for several seconds until the engine 
>     oil made its way around. sounded like the main bearings to me.

Maybe a silly question but I assume you are running with a lower weight oil
(i.e. 10W30 or 5W30). I assume you mean -15F which if I subtract a case of
beer and divide by 2 leads me to about -25C! }:-)

I have had no problem starting my Discovery at that or lower temperatures
without the block. But if a plug is available, I do plug it in.
 
>     wheels felt square, auto tranny really didn't want to change, drove 
>     slowly for the first few minutes until everything loosened up. Can 
>     anyone in Canada tell us folks about the LR block heater you have as 
>     standard up there? where does the plug come out, where does it plug in 

I have only had square wheels at -40 or lower and yes the tranny does get
sluggish at about -10C. I've just gotten used to it.

The plug, as installed, sits in a little mount on the NAS driver side next
to the rad. It comes with about half a meter of cord to let it out from
under the hood and terminates as a standard 3 prong electrical outlet (male).
I carry an extention cord in the back just in case I come across a plug.

Cheers,

  -Christian

------------------------------

Christian Szpilfogel  - '95 Discovery
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
chrisz@bnr.ca   Work: (613) 763-5713   FAX:  (613) 765-4855           
---------------------------------------------------------------
My Opinions are my own and you may borrow them, if you wish, 
but I want them back when you're done.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 08:06:44 -0700
From: Stephen Brown <srbrown@sair020.energylan.sandia.gov>
Subject: Re: RR power seat

On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Shaun Carrigan wrote:

> Help! Dearest just borrowed the '88 Range Rover and moved up the seat to 
> accommodate her 5'0" frame. When I tried to climb in, there was no 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> there a way to manually move the seat back far enough to drive it until 
> a repair can be made?

And Walter Swain wrote:

> Hmm, it must be the season or something.  I just had the same experience, 
> except in reverse.  My seat will go back, but not forward.  This means 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> think I'd better get it fixed anyway).   The strange thing is that both 
> seats are doing the same thing.  Could there be a common cause?

> I'm thinking about opening up the switch boxes and spraying in some
> solvent to clean the contacts since several people have mentioned the need
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> passive approach to Land Rover repair.  Any ideas on a more proactive
> approach? 

I had the same experience on my 88 RR -- two problems came up. First
and foremost in the switch box there is a rubber sheet just under the
cover to keep the spilled coffee out of the electrics. On my truck
this sheet was getting rumpled up and preventing the switch from
moving one or both directions. The top of theswitch cover is easy to
take off and you can push the rubber back down around the switch
shafts and fix the problem for a time.

Later on I found that nothing would work again! The rubber wasn't the
problem this time. I fiddled and farted around with the wiring, fuses,
connections under the seat and finally it started working and has been
for almost a year -- must have been a dirty connection.

You can move the seats by hand -- disconnect the drive cables from the
stepper motors (looks like a flexible speedometer cable) and turn the
cable ends by hand.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 /==============\
 | `63  |  IIa  |          Stephen Brown
 |______|_______| 	   Geomechanics Department, MS-0751
 /___/^^^^^^\___\9	   Sandia National Laboratories
 |oo|(@)##(@)|oo|	   Albuquerque, New Mexico 87185
 |  | [####] |  |
 ======%%%%======	   email: srbrown@sandia.gov
 {*}={&&}====={*}
 {*}          {*}          RockNet: http://sair019.energylan.sandia.gov:70
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 10:14:47 -0500
From: Fred Ellsworth <fellswor@camb-lads.loral.com>
Subject: LR Sightings in NW, etc.  

Howdy all,
Just got back to Boston from two weeks in the balmy Northwest, mostly
Seattle. Saw lots of Rovers, nicest were-
1) Blue D-90 in parking lot of Larry's Market in Totem Lake
2) Epedition equipped SIII (I think, didn't get a good look at front) w/
roofrack, highlift, jerrycans, etc driving past the train station in
Vancouver, BC
3) Blue SIIA 88 hardtop also in Vancouver with a radiator muff, brown rear
door, jerry can mounted on rear tire carrier, and camel trophy sticker in
back window.  I honked and gave a thumbs up but was driving an Acura- and
only got a funny look in return.
Anyone on the list?

Last time I mentioned Boeing Surplus (in Seattle) a couple people asked
about titanium diamondplate.  I was there last week and they had titanium
sheets for $8/lb, not diamondplate but thick enough for use as skid plates.
Lots of other cool stuff too, everything sold by the pound (and geiger
counters for $20- but my SO balked).

I'm still having trouble starting our SIIA in the cold, even with the
Luminition.  When its really cold (like now) it requires ether, and when it
finally starts it barely runs- like maybe only a couple cylanders are
firing or something, then after about 15-20 seconds it all of a sudden
starts idling normally.  Still no power till it warms up completely.  Any
more ideas?  My latest theory is a too low carb float level, but I haven't
had a chance to test it.

Looking forward to more snow in Boston,
Fred
'71 IIA 88"

------------------------------

From: Gene Sparks <galleryg@techline.com>
Subject: Increasing Discovery's Gas Mileage
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 07:16:32 -0800

 First of all a Hearty How-D-Do to everyone in this group! My name is =
Gene and I'm a proud new owner of a 96 Discovery here in the state of =
Washington, USA..I must say I'm very impressed with almost every aspect =
of this fine vehicle. One area that could be improved though, is the gas =
mileage. I've recently made a few minor additions to the disco that have =
given me an increase of 5 MPG so I thought as my first post to this =
group I'd share this info with all of you. First of all I replaced the =
stock champion plugs (YUK) with Splitfires and gapped them at .038. The =
part # is SF6D. By doing this it also noticeably increased my throttle =
response (read increased horsepower). Secondly I changed my oil and =
replaced it with 1 quart of "Duralube" and the remainder with 10-40w =
Castrol Syntech Synthetic oil. And finally and most importantly I =
replaced the Air filter with a K&N lifetime filter. The parts stores =
will tell you that there is no application for a discovery, but I found =
out that the air filter that is used in the Discovery is identical to =
the one that is used in an 86-91 944 Turbo Porshe. So if you ask for a =
K&N Air filter for that car you'll get the proper filter for your Disco. =
The filter will fit precisely with NO modifications.

After I bought the Disco I ran three tanks of fuel with no modifications =
and in mixed driving (locked diff and not) I averaged 14.5 MPG. Since =
I've made the modifications I've used three tanks of fuel in mixed =
driving and my mileage has increased to 19.2 overall. Not only did my =
MPG increase but also the overall performance of My Disco is better. It =
feels more peppy and it's passing times 50-70 MPH are much quicker.

I hope this was helpful to all the other Disco owners out there If you =
have any questions about this stuff contact me at galleryg@techline.com  =
or stop by my homepage at http://www.techline.com/~galleryg/

Gene

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:39:52 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: One Brahmin Writes

Harry Hewson writes;
snip
>         After a few minutes of pondering this I've come to accept that I am
> truely a part of the highest caste. If any of you Series, Disco or Defender
snip

Pish-tosh, the British army still had to fly in a series Rover to get 
their RR's through the Darien Gap. Oh, but there was no snow. ;-)

OH NO! I hope I haven't started another "My Rover's better than 
yours" thread.

So how much beer do I need to buy you to learn the handshake? Would a 
case do?

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 10:59:26 -0500
Subject: Mercedes AAV

I have my doubts as the viability of an off-road vehicle built near
Tuscaloosa Alabama.   Do that mean that gun racks are optional?  How about
spittoons?  A horn that plays "Roll Tide" or "War Eagle"?  Dog Cages?  Wheels
that are all the same size & make?  Turnsignals?   

Cheers...
Gerry E.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 11:08:49 EST
From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben)
Subject: RR parts and v8 motor Q?

Dear list:

Someone is selling a 91 RR rolling chassis.  Is anyone doing
a coil conversion and might have an interest in it?

I might be interested in the motor.  What was the lineup in
90 or 91 (in US) - 3.5? 3.9? 4.2?

Thanks.
Please e-mail, as I am digesting as of late (how did I get kicked-off the RT list?)

Jan

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 10:08:32 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Brake problems, rims, propane heaters

 Nate Dunsmore writes:
snip
> Another alternative to grinding down needle-nose visegrip teeth is to contact
> a local hospital and ask if they have old bowel clamps they're going to
snip

That seems very appropriate considering some of the stuff I've seen 
come out in old brake fluid. I'll check the horsepistol here.

Jim Cirbus asks:
snip
"equipped with 16" rims.  The 65,000 dollar question:  Can these rims be
used with tubeless tires?  I have seen tubeless tires on Series rims 
in"
snip

I ran tubeless tires on my '67 16" deep offset NADA rims for years, no problem. I 
currently have tubeless tires on my '73 15" rims, again no problem.

On to propane heaters.
I finally remembered to check my catalog. Zerostart's propane powered 
tank heaters come in 5 models, the two smallest being the most 
appropriate for LR's.

Model 820-5000 is 2.5" O.D. x 9.5" high and put's out 5,000btu,
equivalent to 1,450 watts. It uses about 3.5 oz. of fuel/hr. 1989 SRP
price approaching $300 US.

Model 820-5043 is 4.5" O.D. x 10.5" high, puts out 10,000btu equiv.
to 2,900 watts and uses about 6.5 oz of fuel/hr.  1989 SRP a little 
over $300 US.

They come with everything you need except for your propane tank and 
fuel line.
Zerostart aslo makes all kinds of other heaters, block, 
thermo-siphon, battery blankets, diesel fuel heaters and more.
I'll be getting a current price book if anyone is interested.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:08:41 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: Diesel imports

Dear All,
        I have seen a few listings recently that people are under the
impression that diesel Rovers can be imported to the US in later models
than petrols. Don't get me wrong, If you can get a Defender 110 through I
think it is great, but the true letter of the law does not allow the later
diesels, and I don't want to see anyone loose money, or worse yet, a Rover
due to the wrong information. As I said this is the law, how you choose to
follow or go around it is your business, good luck. The EPA does allow for
later model diesel vehicles, right now the early SIII's, BUT, their are two
important documents you must sign upon an entry bond. One is the EPA form,
this relates to the gas engines up to 1969 (actually 1970, but the forms
have not been updated yet), and diesels a bit later. The problem is the
second DOT form. The DOT form is much more important than the EPA form as
far as customs etc. It has NO stipulation as far as gas or diesel. They run
on a rolling 25 year policy, no exceptions, unless you want to pay a
registered importer a ton of money to legalize it.
        So the diesel may get you by the EPA, but getting by the EPA form
in NO WAY gets you past the more strcit DOT form. I checked this
information with my contact at DOT this morning, so be careful. I have
imported many vehicles, and have had some problems even with legal
vehicles, so they are out there checking up on us. Legally you can import
up to a build date of Jan 9, 1971, but that is pushing it, better to stay
1970 or earlier for a bit.
        Hope you get all Rovers through, no matter what the year!

Mike Smith, ECR

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 10 Jan 96 11:14:56 EST
Subject: Re: One Brahmin Writes

Re: Secret handshakes and other amusing pastimes:

Actually, REAL Rover owners don't need any such silly things as secret 
handshakes, as the partial deafness, weak bladders and grease under the 
fingernails identifies us far better than any copyable series of actions. 8*)

     ajr

 P.S.: This was a JOKE!!!! ...8*)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 08:30:06 -0800
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Hummer Differentials

barnett childress wrote:

> Hummers have open diffs. They also double the available torque at each
> wheel somehow. ARB has just come out with a version of their Air Locker
> for Hummers!

I think the torque increase comes from the Hummer's geared hubs; this 
arrangement not only allows the shafts going to each wheel to be placed 
at an angle, but also for there to be some reduction in the final ratio 
at each hub.

-- 

Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 beluga black Discovery V8i

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 11:33:28 EST
From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben)
Subject: Rover SD-1 for sale in NE US

Looked at a SD-1 Rover last weekend.
Very decent shape, good FI 3.5l, brakes were bad, and the
owner is a serious smoker.

My interest in it was the EFI motor, but I'll pass.  If you're
interested in the Landie's cousin for $1500, e-mail me.

Preference given to those who will NOT part it (owner's request) and those
who are freezing in their Series vehicles :)

Jan

------------------------------

From: "Gerald" <g@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:51:59 -0500
Subject: re:freezing discovery 

On 10 Jan 96 at 9:49, christian (c.j.) szpilfogel wrote:
. . . .
> The plug, as installed, sits in a little mount on the NAS driver side next
> to the rad. It comes with about half a meter of cord to let it out from
> under the hood and terminates as a standard 3 prong electrical outlet (male).
> I carry an extention cord in the back just in case I come across a plug.
. . . .

I must have missed something. Who sells block heaters for Discoverys?

Saw a Defender 110 this morning as the snow passes 50% of the record 
snowfall for a winter here.

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 11:58:37 EST
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:: One Brahmin Writes

Harry Hewson; tells us of a secret RR handshake known only to the 
uppercrust that he might divulge for a beer bribe!

Tom Row; asks if a case of beer is enough to learn the secret handshake, 
and (reminds Harry about the limitations of the RR compared to all other 
LR's!) 

Here in the frozen snow covered (where's my mail box?) wasteland formally 
known as New England we have been secretly working on a special handshake 
only for the owners of NAS Defender 90's (we all know that our LR's are 
the best!!) 

Unfortunately it's to damn cold to remove our gloves for practice!!!

Ha! Maybe in the spring?

Walkin' in a winter wonderland till my Rover comes home!!

Barnett.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:00:01 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Waving - Series ones.

>Is this a phenonomon of Barnsley and Huddersfield or is it a world wide
>plot?

Just dour Yorkshiremen,preoccupied with the possible lack of water for
brewing purposes.Wave with a berr bottle in your hand.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: Land Rover stamps
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 10:14:32 -0700 (MST)

My philatelic Land Rovers web page has been fleshed out a bit.  There are 
now ten of the approximately 20 known Land Rover issues from around the 
world, including one that I don't think anybody else has previously 
mentioned:  a 1992 Isle of Man issue commemorating the 50th anniversary 
of the Parachute Regt.  It's pink, but it looks pre-Pink Panther.

http://www.du.edu/~tomills/lrstamps.html

Thanks to Robin for supplying most of the stamps.

T. F. Mills
tomills@du.edu                               University of Denver Library
http://www.du.edu/~tomills                          Denver  CO 80208  USA

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 10 Jan 96 10:54:25 MST
Subject: Range Rover power seat switches.

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
If you want to replace with new switches, Mercedes has a "identical" switch.
("Identical" means that it has an additional plug in and raised "handle"
that is used to adjust the headrest.) The part number is 0124-820-88-10
(drivers side). and the price is $86.10. (as of a few months ago.) The
additional switch "handle" can be snipped off.

If you want to "rebuild" yours, that'd be a cheaper way to go, one of mine
worked part way, the other I replaced. Be prepared for MANY little springs
and BB sized balls. mine kind-of flew apart! =:-O No ascii art is possible
for this mess of bits!!! (really not that bad when you get into it.)

If you want to use jumper wires to temporarily adjust your seat, here's what
I've discovered: Thanks to "Matt" (I forget his last name, sorry...
Unplug the switch portion:
*************** an excellent ascii drawing from Matt ********

I think I may be able to help you there, as I successfully got the seat into
an acceptable position using jumper wires.  It takes two wires, because both
hot and ground must be connected.

>From memory, the plugs that connect to the bottom of the switch look
something like this:

   +--------+   My drawing may not be accurate, but I show two vertical blades,
   |        |   two round pins, and two horizontal blades.  One of the plugs
   | |    | |   has both round pins, but the other plug has only one round pin.
   | |    | |   If I remember correctly, the round pin present on both plugs
   |        |   is hot, while the round pin present on only one plug is ground.
   |  o  o  |
   |        |   Be default, none of the blades is connected to anything.  When
   |   ---  |   you move a button, one blade is supposed to go to ground, and
   |        |   another blade is supposed to go to hot.  I was able to
   |   ---  |   determine the correct blades to hotwire using my multimeter
   |        |   on the working driver's side switch.
   +--------+
                If you think about it, this behavior makes sense, because it's
the same motor that makes the seat go both forward and backward, the only
difference is the polarity.

In summary, a working hotwire might look something like this in principal:

   +--------+                     +--------+
   |        |                     |        |
   | |    | |                     | |    | |
   | |    | |                    ___|    | |
   |        |                   /          |
   |  o  o___                   \____o     |
   |         \                             |
   |   ---  | \                   |   ---  |
   |        | /                   |        |
   |   ---___/                    |   ---  |
   |                              |        |
   +--------+                     +--------+

I'm sorry I don't have more specifics, but for me the breakthrough was
realizing that two connections are required, so maybe that will help you.

-Matt
******************** End of Mat's message. *******************
Mat, Great news!!! Your drawing was *very* helpful! Only thing to change is,
When connecting the two leads, one end of each of the two jumpers goes on
the large plug-in's as you've indicated, The other ends work as a pair to
connect each of the smaller "pairs" of plugs. Let's see if I can illustrate:

   +--------+                     +--------+
   |        |                     |        |    { Each "pair" of smaller
   | |    | |                     | |    | |  {{{ contacts controls a different
   | |    | |                     | |    | |    { seat function.
   |        |                     |        |     |
   |  o  o_______      ______________o     |     |
   |        |    \    /                    |     /
   |   ---_______/   /            |   ---  |    /
   |        |       /             |        | {{{
   |   ---_________/              |   ---  |
   |        |                     |        |
   +--------+                     +--------+

As you stated, reversing the two jumpers reversed the direction of the motor.

Thanks!!! Now I only have to replace one switch... I got the passenger seat
into a "comfortable" position now, so don't need to adjust it. (at least not
often, anyway.) Maybe I can use parts from the pass. seat switch to fix
the drivers seat. Typical Rover workings, eh?

Many thanks, and I hope this helps others as well. Maybe a FAQ file addition?
And speaking of FAQ files, is there one for Range Rovers?

thanks to matts@cacilj.caciasl.com

Good luck!! Dave (one working seat, one "jumper activated" seat) Brown

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

#=======#          ________           We make a living by what we get,
|__|__|__\___     /__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
| _|  |   |_ |}   \_/-\_|__/-\_|}
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:16:52 -0500
Subject: Re: D90 Seats

In a message dated 96-01-09 19:16:07 EST, you write:

>t
>John,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>Cheers,
>Barnett

Yup , this sounds exactly like my problem, only is annoying when empty.
 Thanks for the input, I'll bring it up with mr LR Dealer next time.

thanks, 
John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:20:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: re:freezing discovery 

On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, Gerald wrote:

> I must have missed something. Who sells block heaters for Discoverys?

	Temro via Canadian Tire and other stores.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 13:25:56 -400
From: sstricklin@pace.atl.ga.us (Slade Stricklin)
Subject: D90 Transmision problem

I have a 1994 NAS D90 with the newer transmision with the reverse in the back
right
position.  When I accelerate from a stop to go as fast as posible and push in
the clutch
and then try to shift from first to second the gear shift stops half way
between the gears and
a loud grinding noise comes from the transmision.  I have repededly tried to
convince my service manager that it is something wrong with the transmision
and that it needs to be dropped and inspected, but as cheap as my dealer is
they try to convince me that I'm not depressing the clutch completely which is
not true.  Can someone please help me?!?!

--

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
         Sent via ExpressNet/SMTP(tm), Internet Gateway of the Gods!
               ExpressNet/SMTP (c)1994-95 Delphic Software, Inc.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:23:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: re:: One Brahmin Writes

On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, barnett childress wrote:

> Here in the frozen snow covered (where's my mail box?) wasteland formally 
> known as New England 

	Somewhere in your, or the neighbours, frontyard.  Plough sent it 
	flying... :-)  Very common up here.  Heaven help you if you try
	and insure that the plough doesn't remove it.  The local authorities
	get upset pulling their ploughs out of the ditch.

> Unfortunately it's to damn cold to remove our gloves for practice!!!

	Because the 90wt on your hands has congealed and bonded the gloves
	to your hands...  :-)

------------------------------

From: Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com
Date: 10 Jan 96 13:27:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Differentials

>From: childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02
>To: Land-Rover-Owner@uk.stratus.com
>Subject: re:Re: Differentials
>Date: Wednesday, January 10, 1996 8:32AM

>Hummers have open diffs. They also double the available torque at each
>wheel somehow. ARB has just come out with a version of their Air Locker
>for Hummers!

Actually, Hummers use the Gleason torque-sensing differential (Torsen), not 
open diffs. You are correct that ARB now offers air lockers as well for the 
Hummer. Personally, I would rather have the Torsens!

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 14:41:16 +0000
From: Kevan Shaw Lighting Design <kevan@krshaw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: 2.25 Diesel

I would endorse Mike Rooth's comments on the diesel, I have an SWB series 3
diesel, I find the engine very adequate when you get used to the
appropriate driving style, i.e. get it going fast and don't slow down
unless you really have to! I have free wheel hubs and overdrive, the free
wheels do make a big difference in top speed  surprisingly, on motorways I
can usually run at 60+ when in a hurry  but the oil consumption goes
through the roof, well out the vent and all over the engine actually :-) so
I try to run just below 60.

In terms of the thing as a road car, overdrive, free wheeling hubs and
radial tyres are essential for comfort and sanity, presently I am running
205R16 re-mopulds with the Michelin small block pattern on the original
wheels and tubes that suffer from loads of punctures, I am trying to get
tubeles rims for these covers at present, any offers?

Off road the diesel is generally better than the petrol, better pulling at
low revs and heaps better engine braking, steep downhills, 1 in 1 or worse
you have to accelerate down to prevent tobogganing, if brave run down in
low second, you get there quickly but under control. My present tyures are
no good in mud however.  Also it is better for wading as no electrics to
fail, tip when rescuing drowned petrols, throw the rope out and let the
petrol driver get wet hooking it up!

As far as consumption is concerned I did a 4 day expedition including off
road to the far  North of Scotland last summer and returned about 26MPG,
day to day I get about 20 to 22, lots of short trips in traffic. The thing
does have its moments though and finding LR mechanics who like working on
diesels is difficult, most bodyswerve like crazy when the engine needs
attention.

As everyone says they cost more, people wouldn't pay more if they weren't
worth having, would they? In general I really like my diesel and I wouldn't
consider swopping it for a petrol or a different engine, I have found
enough problems insuring the thing with a winch on it (Capstan type of
course) as it is used for business.  On the electrics front you do need
electric start, tow starting is possible , push start and hand cranking are
not viable especially when cold, talking of which don't let the engine
overheat at all or you are into a big bill for a headgasket and possibly
skimming the head, on the other recent string on heaters, the parts book
lists two thermostats for the diesel,  one for winter, I think 82=B0 and one
for summer , 74=B0 . The winter one makes a huge difference to heater
efficiency  but watch the temp guage!

Have fun and don't be put off by the petrol lobby :-)

Kevan Shaw

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 13:36:03 -0500
From: sardans@ll.mit.edu (Sandeep Sardana)
Subject: CD-Changer

I'm looking to put an after-market cd-changer in my Disco.
A friend advised me to go with the factory cd-changer, since his experience
with non-factory has been bad. A well-known Audio/Video store installed
PIONEER equipment which works well, but now his AC/Heater do not work properly.

Any comments?

Sandeep Sardana
'95 Discovery

sardans@ll.mit.edu     CIS: 102012,1430    aol: sardana   msn: sardana

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 12:38:40 GMT -0600
Subject: re:freezing discovery 

Gerald writes:

> Saw a Defender 110 this morning as the snow passes 50% of the record 
> snowfall for a winter here.
I'd like to suggest something to the members of this list. 
Many of us know where other members are. New members don't and I 
doubt if even old time members know where everybody is.
Gerald's comment doesn't mean anything to me as I don't know where he 
is.
I'd like to suggest that everyone add a short line to their sig file 
with your city, state ( province, prefect or whatever), and country. 
It would only add a few bytes to each message.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 10:55:19 -0800
Subject: Re: Tire Chains

<---- Begin Forwarded Message ---->
From: ericz@cloud9.net
Subject: Re: Tire Chains

On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) wrote:

>I know this is an old subject for the digest, but does it do any good to
>put chains all round...all four wheels. In a panic, I went out this am and
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>inches of snow we had here yesterday). Could have been embarrasing.
>Chris

Chains really do make a difference, as I found out over the past couple days.  
If you only have one pair, I would put them on the front (and so I did) the 
rover front end is plenty strong to take the vibrations.  Just make sure to keep 
off too much hard pavement so as not to shake the front apart.  Also, the 
dramatic increase in front end traction makes for some interesting handling at 
speed through deep snow.  Don't ask why, I just know (could have something to do 
with the guard rail that passed right to left under my rover right behind the 
rear axle....naa!)

Having fun in the snow!

Eric
<----  End Forwarded Message  ---->

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 10:55:49 -0800
Subject: K&N Air filters

Does anyone know the part number for a K&N air filter for a Stage One V8?  It 
has an oval filter which sits on top of the manifold, I believe the same as 
early Range Rovers.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:58:58 -0500
Subject: Re: D90 Transmision problem
From: "Andrew A. Dallas" <adallas@systemsoft.com>

>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>I have a 1994 NAS D90 with the newer transmision with the reverse in the back
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)]
>which is
>not true.  Can someone please help me?!?!

I have a similar problem shifting from second to third under heavy 
acceleration. I don't believe this is a problem with the transmission. I 
think it's simply a problem of gear synchronization when the engine races 
at the end of accelerating in one gear. If you race the engine (don't try 
this at home) and then try to put the tranny in any gear, you'll at least 
notice a little vibration in the stick.
-AD

*************************************************
            Andrew A. Dallas
            Full Spectrum Software
            360 Market St.
            Suite 18
            Brighton, MA 02135
            (617) 782-9829
            on-site office: (508) 647-2948
            adallas@tiac.net
            http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/
*************************************************

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 10 Jan 96 14:25:03 EST
Subject: K&N Part # for a Series 2.25?

All this talk of K&N air filters has me wanting one. The local speed shop can 
order it for me, but I would prefer to hand the idiots a part # to avoid 
massive stupidity on their part.

I know Someody out there has it.....come on, you know who you are.....8*)

  Alan - 4 wheeling in Boston, Ma....wheeee!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 15:12:04 -0500
From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi)
Subject: Small chuckle

With reports of all those LRs and RRs cruising the deserted streets of
Washington D.C. in the snowstorm, I was surprised to find the LRNA office
phones answered today with an announcement that, "Due to weather, Land
Rover North America offices are closed today."

Don't these guys drive their own products?

-Bob

p.s. - I am trying to get a definitive answer on LRNA policy regarding
aftermarket products and warranty work.  For example, if I installed a
Safari Gard bumper and ARB Lockers, would this void the airbag and
drivetrain warranty, respectively?  If I get an official response, I'll
post it here.

  rvirzi@gte.com             Think Globally. ===
  +1(617)466-2881                            === Act Locally!

------------------------------

From: ChrisF6724@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 15:17:52 -0500
Subject: Questions?

I've got a couple of questions on a '73 88 Series 3:
1.   Reciently, steam/smoke, and oil splatter has been coming out of the oil
filler neck.  Is this just a bad cap, or is it something else wrong with the
car? (ps It is fairly odorless, but manages to fill the cab)  At least it
makes me look really cool driving around in the middle of winter with my
windows open...
2.   Can the clutch be adjusted?  So far, two different answers from two
different mechanics.  One said it was hydrolic and could not be adjusted, the
other said that it was all ready all the way out...  The factory manual
suggests that the adjustment is hidden under the front wing panel.  What can
I do?

Now I see why the majority of you work on your own cars... I have spent
several hours just watching the mechanics try and trace down parts for it, or
even complain because its not in their service manuals.  "Oil bath filter,
What's That?"  or my personal favorite "Land Rover, Does Toyota make that?"
or even "It's not in the computer" Even though I've always supplied them with
the manual and alternative parts lists and sources, they can't believe I can
supply them with the correct information...

Frustrated,
Chris Fisher '73 88 S3

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 14:46:00 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: K&N Part # for a Series 2.25?

> All this talk of K&N air filters has me wanting one. The local speed shop can 
> order it for me, but I would prefer to hand the idiots a part # to avoid 
> massive stupidity on their part.

Alan,
It depends on the carb you have. I have the Weber 2bbl that uses an 
oval filter about 4x6" and about  1.5" high. I got another K&N that 
is taller and made longer threaded studs to hold the top plate on. I 
can get you that PN if you want it.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 14:55:07 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: 2.25 Diesel

Kevan Shaw writes
Snip
> low revs and heaps better engine braking,
snip

I agree with everything you say Kevin except this. Diesels are known 
for not having good engine braking. That's why the Jake Brake was 
invented, to hold pressure in the cylinders briefly to give some back 
pressure. I don't know if they are used in Europe, but I'm sure 
there's someting like it there. For those of you in the US, the 
extremely loud exhaust sounds you hear on heavy trucks as they 
downshift in a hurry is the Jake kicking in.

Now, maybe there's something in the design of the Rover diesel that 
does that, but *I* haven't seen it.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Walsh" <tomw@netcom.com>
Date:          Tue, 9 Jan 1996 13:01:30 +0000
Subject:       re:EMU shocks/springs/DISCO's/D90's

> From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
snip!
> I have OME suspensionon my D90. Ride is actually better than stock.
> Extra long travel gas shocks have better control and let wheels hang down 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> was raised about 1 to 1.5".
> Also the springs seem to move more freely and have more coils than stock.

Thanks for the info! I got the invoice today and the checks in the 
mail. They should arrive soon :)

Tomw

---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*
                       Fluent Networks
             "Intelligent Networking Solutions"
Tom Walsh
tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com
95 LR Disco "The Green Monster"
#include <std_disclaim.h>
*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 15:57:35 -0500
From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi)
Subject: S111 for sale

Found this on the net, in case anyone is interested.  Don't bother
contacting me, because I don't know no more!    -Bob

rec.autos.4x4 #26720 (6 + 0 more)
Date: Tue Jan 09 23:52:48 EST 1996
From: Tim Veal <veal@execulink.com>

I have a 1972 Land-Rover (Series III) for sale.  It is a short wheelbase
(88") and a hard-top.  It has just over 50,000 miles and a rebuilt
engine, rebuild differential, new exhaust, alternator, carburator and
tires.  It runs and drives like a rover should, tight and solid.  This is
a unique and quite capable vehicle.  One you drive one, you will never
want to see another Jeep as long as you drive!
Price is $8000.  Please reply to me at my e-mail address:
     veal@execulink.com

------------------------------

From: Leland J Roys <roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com>
Subject: D90 trip report
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 11:04:52 PST

Hello!

I have been gone for a couple months, its good to get back and look at the
newsgroup again.

I just took my Def-90 on a 2500 mile trip from San Francisco to Aspen 
Colorado , then to Las Vegas and back. The truck did a great job and I
liked it more after the trip, didn't get much off-road use due to lack of
snow in Colorado but it was still fun. 

After the trip, I have decided on one thing, I am going to get a pair of
noise abating headsets (maybe aircraft headsets) to wear on long trips,
my hearing was definately comprimised after 2500 miles on the road at 80+
MPH the whole way (I noticed that the computer would shut of the fuel flow
at 90MPH damnit!) 

Does anyone have any ideas about hearing protection, like the new electronic
noise abating headsets (Sharper image sells a cheap set). I would like to be
able to plug them into the stereo some how (I could not hear the radio above
the road noise the whole trip).

The fun thing about the trip was seeing 5 or 6 Def-90's in Aspen Colorado,
it did scare me that they were all spanking new clean (please don't tell me
they only go to the mall in them).

Leland Roys
roys@cup.hp.com
1994 Def-90 (Red) 

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:14:20 -0500
Subject: Re: One Brahmin Writes

In a message dated 96-01-09 20:03:04 EST, you write:

> If any of you Series, Disco or Defender
>owners (notice how I lumped you all together) buy me enough beer, I might
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>'89 Mange Rover (Scratched, dented, and leaking from no fewer than 4
>locations!) 
Ha.
I can get loads of Old Milwaukee now.  How much for the secret handshake?
John 
94D90, Madison Wisconsin, only a short defenderide away from Old Miwaukee 

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:14:26 -0500
Subject: Re: FYI: : Bimini top all season, D90

In a message dated 96-01-10 08:09:46 EST, you write:

......... Now if I could just get up my driveway.
>From Sturbridge, MASS.
>Home of the 4WD mall hopping idiots!
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>Cheers,
>Barnett

Barnett, what did you rent while your LR was away?  an old chevette?

JOhn.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:13:51 -0800
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: RR power seat

Your problem is almost certainly the switch itself, in which case you can 
remove the switch box and either 1) open the box and clean the numerous 
contacts inside, a tedious but doable procedure, or 2) buy a replacement 
switch (cheaper if you get the compatible part from a Mercedes dealer).  

Another possibility that I keep forgetting to mention is that one of the two 
electrical connectors, which plug in the bottom of the switch box and are 
not physically secured, might have simply come loose.

-Matt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:08:49 EST
From: "Paul M. Brodie  usssbkpy@ibmmail.com" <usssbkpy@ibmmail.com>
Subject: D90 Not Starting

Hello, all. I just got my 94 D90 back from the shop. It went in because
several times over the past several weeks it would start up fine, then
stall out and refuse to start. It had plenty of battery power, lots of
gas; it would turn over, but just wouldn't catch.

The first time it happened, I found that the fuse to the fuel injectors
had burned out. I replaced it, and the beast roared to life. Same issue
this time.

The dealer ran the electrical diagnostics, and found nothing. They did
find that LRNA now recommends upgrading the fuse from 7.5 to 10 amps.
How simple ! Just thought I'd pass this along to the list in case anyone
else is having the same problem .....

Oh, by the way, thanks to all of you "sunbirds" for letting us know how
nice and warm it is in Arizona, Hawaii, etc. while we up here in the
NorthEast Kingdom freeze our tail...pipes off !! We'll certainly be
thinking of you this summer when you're frying eggs on the streets of
Phoenix !!! Enjoy it while you can - it's a "Winter Wonderland" up here !

Regards,

Paul Brodie
94 D90
93 RR

------------------------------

From: Leland J Roys <roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Wedding plans
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 13:43:42 PST

Hello,

Well, during my trip to Colorado in the Def-90, I also proposed to my Girlfriend.
(I hope the Def-90 is not to jealous). Well because my fiancee also likes 
adventure (Thank God!), for our honeymoon we have decided to take a driving
adventure. 

I was thinking about driving down the east side of Baja to Cabo (or close)
and taking the truck on the ferry to mainland Mexico and then drining back
to U.S.A from there.

I wanted to get any ideas or experiences on such a trip. For example, what
are the most important things to take with on the truck? (I need to buy
some off-road lights, but I do have a Warn winch). 

You can write me back directly to my email if you don't feel the group needs
to hear the details. Thanks.

Leland Roys
roys@cup.hp.com
1994 Defender-90 (red)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 09:52:05 EST
From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff)
Subject: Re: Timing

If you have an assistant one easy way to turn the engine is to jack up one
wheel with transfer in 2WD for series vehicles, top gear engaged (4th or 5th),
and handbrake off. The engine can be turned by turning the wheel. I meant to
say that for part time 4WD one rear wheel needs to be raised and for constant
4WD one front can be raised. 

This method won't work if you have a limited slip axle diff or a viscous
coupling centre diff, but otherwise will even turn a diesel over (for setting
tappets) without removing the glow plugs.

James Carley
Sydney, Australia
'85 110

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 22:49:51 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: Diff / steering / sump guards

Those that wanted to know, I have found a company in the UK who provides 
underbody guards for RR/DISCOS. 

Performance Industries

Phone 011 44-1544-231214
Fax     011 44-1544- 230904

Cost for a steering guard for RR/DISCO is 59.50 UK pounds

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 22:49:51 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: Diff / steering / sump guards

Those that wanted to know, I have found a company in the UK who provides 
underbody guards for RR/DISCOS. 

Performance Industries

Phone 011 44-1544-231214
Fax     011 44-1544- 230904

Cost for a steering guard for RR/DISCO is 59.50 UK pounds

Mark

------------------------------

From: JCassidyiv@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:48:53 -0500
Subject: Broken Rules

Someone posted yesterday asking me what off-roading "rules" I broke that led
to me getting stuck the other night in the snow.  While there are probably
multitudes of off-road do's and don't's; here are some that I knew and
disregarded.
1.)  I was unsure of the terrain-the snow was so high that the edges of the
road were invisible-I should have scouted.
2.)  I drove faster than the conditions dictated(or obviously allowed!)
3.)  I had a passenger, but we were the only vehicle on that road in the
middle of a storm(we didn't have to be there, but it was our poor choice)
4.)  I was lacking in important recovery and safety equipment.  I had a fire
extinguisher, flashlight, cellular phone and first aid kit as well as the
jack and few tools the truck came with.  I had no tow strap(my high lift jack
was back home in my garage-can anyone tell me how they mounted one inside
their RR?)
    There are probably other commandments I violated, although I can't think
of any at the moment.  The latest issure of Four Wheeler magazine has a great
insert/supplement for novice off-roaders.  One of the best things is the list
of recommended equipment for off-roading.  I'll list it for those who can't
get the magazine(list is from the Califonia Assoc. of Four Wheel Drive Club
Safety Requirement Check List);
Parking Brake             Tow Strap/Rope/Chain
First Aid Kit               Jack(capable of lifting the vehicle)
Lug Nut Wrench           Full Size Spare Tire
Fire Extinguisher with charge gauge(rechargable are best)
Appropriately stored attenna(s)
Adequate attachment(tow) points front and rear
Battery Hold Downs
  Also listed-but not required;
CB Radio/Cellular Phone        Highway Flares
Water Bucket                        Jerrican with fuel
Survival Kit                          Drinking Water
Spare Parts for Vehicle        Axe/Hatchet
Hi-Lift Jack with Wood Base     Sleeping Bags
12-Volt Air Compressor        Shovel
Flashlight(with spare batteries)
Winch(with accessory kit, i.e. tree strap, snatch block)

I would add that here in Maine I will be carrying at least four "space
blankets", some emergency food goods, and some of the chemically
activated(reuseable) hand/feet warmers they sell for skiing and outdoor
activities. 
     I'll through in(although most realize by now), that my 1987 RR is my
daily commuting vehicle and off-road vehicle.  I have made, and continue to,
make modifications and add accessories that improve it's ability in the bush.
 I paid $12,900 for it used from a Land Rover dealer and see no reason why it
shouldn't get taken off-road any less than my wife's 1995 Disco!
Cheers! Stay Safe,  John Cassidy  Bangor, Maine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 07:04:48 +0800 (WST)
From: TONY YATES  <tonyy@BoM.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: High lifts & David Olley

I first saw an air jack demonstrated a few years ago at a four wheel 
drive show.  The chappie demonstrating it (who is a well known figure in 
4wd circles here, runs a 4wd tour company and drives a stage 1 V8 (though 
he was demonstrating on a Landcruiser cos he couldn't get the stage 1 
stuck ;-)  )), extolled its virtues at great lengths, stuck it under the 
vehicle and started to inflate it.  It inflated about half way and then 
burst, much to his embarrasment and the delight of the 100 or so people 
watching.  I've never quite taken them seriously since.

Cheers. Tony.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:16:37 +1000
From: o.evans@latrobe.edu.au (Owen Evans)
Subject: Passenger footwell heating in Series LRs

Phil wrote:

> have been wondering if any have had (or needed) the experience of cooling
>a series 3 down. Specifically, the passenger side foot well seems to
>become almost too hot to touch.

Thanks for raising this, it's been a persistent problem in my SIIA too, and
I found the thread interesting.  I've already fitted the exhaust heat
shield, and it makes a difference, but it's still b----- hot when the
temperature outside is 30 or more (degrees C that is).  So I'm thinking of
some of the more advanced strategies suggested.

Dean Cording wrote:

>You could try wrapping some exhaust heat sheilding tape (I forget its
>proper name) around the pipe. The tape is essentially an insulator.

Does anyone know more about this tape (Brand names, effectiveness etc.)

Owen Evans
SIIA - Agatha

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: D90 trip report
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 15:36:22 -0800

>Does anyone have any ideas about hearing protection, like the new 
electronic
>noise abating headsets (Sharper image sells a cheap set). I would like to 
be
>able to plug them into the stereo some how (I could not hear the radio 
above
>the road noise the whole trip).
I used to wear ear-plugs ($.99) when driving my Jeep x-ctry (now I have a 
Disco so I've  tossed the ear-plugs :-)

Aircraft-style headphones are very effective without the Active Noise 
Reduction (ANR) for many of the "noisy" frequencies you encounter when 
driving. If you get an intercom too, then you and your passenger can listen 
to music as well as talk to each other (and call the tower for take-off, if 
you have to, I suppose :-) The down side to this is that many places have 
laws against driving with headphones one so read the fine print before 
trying that. A/C style headsets run anywhere from $99 on up and a matching 
2-place intercom can be had for $99-149

Lastly, for the "upper crust", you can get ANR headphones that are even 
quieter (Though you probably wouldn't notice once the stereo's turned up) 
but they are much more expensive: $499 on up depending on the brand. One 
thing about aircraft quality stuff is it's built to withstand the same level 
of abuse as your D-90,  where commercial grade stuff is much less sturdy, 
typically. Also it's usually more expensive so it will seem like you're 
buying real Land Rover parts!

Happy Landings!
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:58:49 -0600
From: Insoo@ceramatec.com (Insoo Bay)
Subject: Disco Air Dam

Dear all:

I think Disco's approach angle is mere 31 degree, which is mainly due to
the aerodynamic feature, air DAMN.  When off roading there is plenty of
chance to bump the air dam and bend the front bumper caps  that incoporated
with air dam.  I have called several suppliers in US to replace with the
one without air dam (maybe the one like CT equips or for the earlier
model), they don't have much information.

Anyone knows about compatibility of the ones in 89~93 Disco or even in RR
classic?  I think I could remove the caps and the dam, however, it looks
not only ugly but could be dagerous without caps.

Thanks,

Happy Rovering!

Insoo
95 Red 5spd Disco -my mistress
Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

------------------------------

From: BDaviscar@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 18:59:20 -0500
Subject: Re: FYI: : Bimini top all season, D90

In a message dated 96-01-10 08:05:16 EST, you write:

>Seems that the average mentality around 
>here is "I have 4WD so I'm invincible"! These nuts forget that they too 
>have to eventually come to a stop and 4WD does nothing for braking at 
>65MPH!

Your not alone with the idiots. a friend in colorado called them turkeys as
they ould drive up & down the mountan as fast as possible with the first
snow. He lost a semi truck and a cat (bulldozer) to some a few years back.

Bruce  Chicago

67 SIIA  88   Patches

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:19:34 -0800
Subject: What a Ride!

Greetings all!

The rover gods have finally struck me down this afternoon.  I guess they were a 
little peeved that I haven't had too many debilitating problems lately.  This is 
quite embarassing but I offer myself up for the entertainment of the list.

While cruising down a back road near my house a FedEx box truck came barreling 
the other way.  Probably quite intent on making up for lost deliveries during 
the past snow (I'm in the New York Metropolitan area) he refused to move out of 
the center of the road.  This left me no other choice but to 'hug' the 
embankment.  Sure enough, the 3-4 foot snow banks caught the right front tire 
and wrenched the front end up the slope.

The rest, as they say, is history.  As the front end came to a stop, the top 
decided to continue.  In a matter of nanoseconds, I found myself on the side, 
with all manner of paraphenelia (read: junk) covering me.  That's right, I 
flipped the baby blocking the entire road.

Once I cleared several years' worth of stale McDonald's fries off me, I could 
hear the engine continue to run!  That didn't last too long as the oil slowly 
filled the combustion chambers.  As I climbed out the passenger door, I saw 
several drivers running up to help.  None could believe that I was OK, much less 
that I only wanted some help putting the Rover back up on its wheels and that I 
expected to drive away.

As I am a volunteer firefighter, the police officer who showed up knew me and 
just broke down laughing.  Still hoping to remain anonymous, I asked him not to 
say my name over the radio (those pesky scanners that many of my friends have). 
Instead, he relayed that it was a Land Rover involved.  Same difference as I'm 
one of the only series vehicles around!

With a little help from a wrecker, the Rover was back with the oily side down 
and she started up within about 30 seconds of cranking.  Damage was limited to a 
tweaked roof rack and some deformation of the left front wing.  I'm sure I'll 
get some questions about the scratches on the side that run vertically (now I 
can play tic-tac-toe on the side with the array of scars).

First, a couple lessons learned:
1. Keep your center of gravity low.  I have always attempted to do so but I 
built a roof rack over the summer that weights about 80-100 pounds.  That surely 
had an effect
2. Tie down all the junk you have lying around in the back of the truck.  
Although you might not flip at speed, it can happen on the trail and believe me, 
its not fun to have all manner of equipment raining down on you (the stale fries 
are enough)  I was returning from buying a hi-lift jack and thankfully the thing 
didn't come crashing forward and put me out for good.

Second, a question.
Aside from making sure that all fluids are at their proper level, is there 
anything else I should look for after such an excursion?  Could I have done some 
mechanical damage to the engine/trans innards?  The axles and suspention seem 
fine and driving home she drive great (a little sluggish at first because of the 
fouled plugs)

Well, there you have it.  A little long winded but thats my account of my 
driving stupidity.  I certianly hope it doesn't qualify me for a lugnut award 
(there's still a lot of year left) but it certianly is a humbling experience.

Keep the dirty side down!
Eric

P.S. I have pictures of the whole thing too!

Eric Zipkin
Bedford, NY
USA
109" V8  Regular  (still running!)
109" SII Station Wagon (actually, my father's but he lets me drive it too)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 19:35:11 EST
From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins)
Subject: Re: Small chuckle

At 8:12 PM 1/11/96, Robert A. Virzi wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
<snp>
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>drivetrain warranty, respectively?  If I get an official response, I'll
>post it here.

Please do.  My spring wish list for my disco is
OME Shocks etc.
Lockers (dunno which ones yet)
Safari Guard bumpers front & rear plus rock sliders
a roof rack
a winch
& lights
If my wife makes me pick only a few, it'll be the winch, front bumper & lockers

ttfn

Tom Des Jardins, Inbound Technology Group
FORE Systems (412)635-3374  FAX 635-3333 url http://www.fore.com
5800 Corporate Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15237-5829

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jan 96 20:32:28 EST
From: Steve Rochna <75347.452@compuserve.com>
Subject: Zipp"d Digest

Thanks

I just (finally) got back from Boston (I knew I should've driven) to find
multiple replies to my request for having the digest Zipp'd and mailed.  There
were really too many replies to answer individually so thanks to all for the
offers.  Happy Rovering.

Steve Rochna

------------------------------

From: Inkornoink@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:43:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Door locks freezing

The locks on Moby have frozen several times this winter...the driver's side
likes to freeze up the most...anything other than the grafited oil spray
working well for any one?

Thanks,

Hank
1990 RR c (Moby)

------------------------------

From: Inkornoink@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:43:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Salesmen

In a message dated 96-01-07 02:10:20 EST, TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com writes:

>Now if I could just whitness some Range Rovers going off road...

I take Moby off-road every chance I get....and, very importantly.....my wife
has recently begun taking our great white (alpine ! :) !) beast off-road too!

Let's go play in the mud!

Hank Gregory

1990 RRc (Moby)

------------------------------

From: rmodica@east.pima.edu
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 18:47:47 MST
Subject: FRISCO trip & Casper's asmokin'

Happy New Year to All.

A brief report from the trip to Frisco (Hang on to the Grey Poupon,John).  All
in all a good trip of about 2000 miles.  Tucson to Sante Casper averaged 16.8
at 65-70mph on freeways. Sante Fe to Denver got 17.6 mpg. Back and forth from
Denver to ski areas in third gear due to mountains got about 15.4.  I was
pleased.  A squeaky sterring wheel at 20F, but went away quickly.  I did notice
that the power steering was VERY tight the first turn or so, then returned to
normal.

Frisco (not San and not the City) was a different experience.  Elevation 7000+,
temperatures in the low teens, 24" of snow in two days, icy and snow covered
roads and parking lots.  Casper excelled in all of it.  Only used the diff lock
in the icy, snow packed and crowded ski resort parking lots -- just in case. 
The anti-lock brakes came on frequently and made a VERY loud hydralic type
screech evey time.  I've had the ABS come on before, but never with a noise
like that.  Anyone else have an ABS serenade?  The heater drove me us out of
the car, but we had to use the defrost continuosly.  The front windshield was
iced over after every day and took a long tiome to heat up.  The wipers kept
collecting snow and ice clods at the ends.  New wipers in the future for sure. 
Never a problem with traction or a feeling of insecurity, although I wasn't
used to driving a 4500 pound vehicle on icy roads.  It takes a bit longer to
stop than when driving a light car.  A few suprises before I corrected.

>From Frisco to Grand Junction in driving snowstorm and windy, but no problems. 
We just ploughed through at a steady 50 mph. Grand Junction back to Tucson
averaged about 16.5 with the mountains and all.  The gas mileage was better
than expected.  Summertime driving with the air-conditioner really eats up the
petrol but when it's 115 F it's worth the price.

Arrived home with no problems, but Monday morning things started going amiss. 
First a loud noise between 35-50mph (around 2000rpm). Sounded very much like
tire noise.  Thought I'd check it out this weekend when I did an oil change. 
Yesterday same "tire noise" then suddenly NO POWER, engine sputters but keeps
running.  Slowed down for a light and great amounts of white smoke out the
tailpipe - only on decelleration.  Limp home about 2 miles with consistent
smopking on the slowdowns sputtering on acelleration,.  Engine Check light
comes on.  Into the driveway and stop.  Try to restart and get a great cloud of
white smoke, them nothing.  Engine just turns, but won't start.  Oil is to the
top - clean and clear.  Temp gauge never strayed from the midpoint.  No wierd
noises.  I don't have a clue what the problem is.

Called the dealer in Scotsdale AZ (125 miles north).  Within the hour a tow
truck had Casper on it's flatbed heading north and I had an electric blue 1996
Pontiac GrandAm to drive.  Now I'm waiting for news.  BTW mileage was 21830. 
Any ideas would be appreciated.  I'll keep everyone informed as I learn what
the story is.  

Yours truly  (and Casperless),

Rob Modica	'51 SI 80"	'60 SII 109" Safari
Tucson AZ	'94 Disco 5spd   Casper 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 21:49:13
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: Buried by snow... the electronic kind

My handy dandy E mail file became corrupted somehow and all my mail records 
went away. I apologise for being stupid enough to fail to back this up, but 
I've really learned this time. 

To all who've wondered what became of me, I'm still here. Just up to my knees 
in snow and the Rover STILL in the shop. :(
 
Bill Adams
3Dmentia computer animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington, MD 20895
301-949-9475

'66 S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel  ...all there

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:10:56 -0500
Subject: Vehicle ID Suffix  Question

Anybody have a clue as to  what the letter  after the serial number
represents?? I do beleive it is a design modification indicator but what
exactly I don't know. Anybody have any idea??? The letter in question is D

                                                                         Rgds
   Steve   WA2GMC

                                                                            "
Keep the Whole World Singing " 

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 23:08:28 -0500
Subject: Re:Leland's Wedding plans (mine too...)

In a message dated 96-01-10 17:10:03 EST, Leland Roys  writes:
Well, during my trip to Colorado in the Def-90, I also proposed to my
Girlfriend. (I hope the Def-90 is not to jealous). Well because my fiancee
also likes 
adventure (Thank God!), for our honeymoon we have decided to take a driving
adventure. 
=======================================================================

Congrats Leland.  And especially that you've found an explorer d' matrimonie.
 

I wasn't gonna add this to the list, 'cept that now you started the thread:

On this New Year's Eve I too used my Defender90 in proposing matrimony to my
girlfriend . . . and she too said "YES!"   Hooray, and me an unemployed banjo
player with a huge car loan ha ha , it must be love!  (I just moved from LA
to Wisconsin, and haven't found a job yet, used to work at CARB in
California.)  

I told her that I needed to "get some fresh air because I was so tired" right
before starting to cook a New Years Eve dinner.  I said: "let's take the
Defender out in the snow,"  and like Leland's to be, she also is an explorer,
and said "lemme drive,", uh, just kiddin', she said: " oh, uh, ok, for a
short ride is ok"  and I ran around the square (of the capitol bldg) and went
to the place we met  so long ago, and ...booooom.... it worked!  and all
because I own a Land Rover Defender 90.  

Thank the stars for Morris Wilkes.  (was that his name?)

John P.  engaged LR owner  
1994 D90, Red with Red-head in passenger seat, Wisconsin

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 23:43:27 -0500
Subject: 4WD BMW Wagon

This is the first post I have sent to the BMW and Land Rover lists.

The January issue of CAR (British Magazine, most better US book stores get
it) has photos of a BMW E34 525ix wagon that was spotted near Solihull (the
location of the  Land Rover factory, for all the BMW list people)  The wagon
had huge coil springs on all four corners and looked like it had more ground
clearance than a Range Rover.  The text went on to say that BMW is planning a
4WD vehicle to compete with the recently announced Mercedes All Activity
Vehicle (AAV).  The BMW may use an air suspension like the current Range
Rover, but will be more of a 4WD road car and less of an off road vehicle.
 BMW plans to build the vehicle at Spartanburg (the new BMW factory in North
Carolina, for all the LRO list people).

Kevin Kelly
BMW CCA 
LROA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 21:43:43 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: Opening bottles (was: Re: Range Rovers off road)

Paul asks...

>> 	That's because he couldn't open his beer on the dash.  I've since 
.....snip......
>Where?  How?  Tell all!  I have been searching for years, breaking
>the occasional neck off bottles (you have to drink carefully to

On a Real Land Rover (one with a *metal* dashboard) you use the curled lip
at the bottom of the dash to pop off the bottle cap.

Cheers
Mike Loiodice
166 W. Fulton St.                  1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green     
Gloversville                       1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo
NY  12078  (USA)        7          1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue
                     #:-}>

------------------------------

From: stretch@vol.net
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 13:35:32 PST
Subject: ratt;ing parking brake drum

Hi all...

Question re rattling drum brake on 95 Defender...just wondering if this is normal/typical, or if it's a problem brewing:

The vehicle I test drove/bought has a recurring minor rotational rattle in the parking brake drum...San Jose British Motors service says 2 different things:

1)  fairly normal, as Defender is a bit loose & gappy (various fits of panels, etc)

2)  acknowleged fault with out-of-round drums from factory.

They say no cause for alarm, but did have the drum returned (machined), which fixed it for several hundred miles.  Car has 2400 miles now, but has done it on & off since 15 miles.

Any first-hand experience out there?

Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 21:59:26 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: re:freezing discovery 

At 12:38 10.01.96 -0600, Tom Rowe wrote:

>I'd like to suggest that everyone add a short line to their sig file 
>with your city, state ( province, prefect or whatever), and country. 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>Tom Rowe
>UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
"UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research"?

Never heard of it.  ;-)

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 21:59:17 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: re:: One Brahmin Writes

Well.  If I were to guess what the Series/Range Rover/Defender/Discovery
secret handshake was, I'd say we're driving it.  How else do you determine
an LRO?

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California -- where it's warm and dry.

At 11:58 10.01.96 EST, barnett childress wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>Harry Hewson; tells us of a secret RR handshake known only to the 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 28 lines)]
>Walkin' in a winter wonderland till my Rover comes home!!
>Barnett.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 21:59:41 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: FRISCO trip & Casper's asmokin'

At 18:47 10.01.96 MST, rmodica@east.pima.edu wrote:
>Arrived home with no problems, but Monday morning things started going amiss. 
>First a loud noise between 35-50mph (around 2000rpm). Sounded very much like
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>white smoke, them nothing.  Engine just turns, but won't start.  Oil is to the
>top - clean and clear.  Temp gauge never strayed from the midpoint.  No wierd
>noises.  I don't have a clue what the problem is.

Oh no, Rob!  White smoke from a white Rover.  Maybe that's how Casper gives
up his ghost.  Let's hope getting him fixed isn't like the proverbial
attempt to re-bottle the genie.

Attempting to make light of a bad situation,
John
'95 Discovery
Frisco, California

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:11:03 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Opening bottles (was: Re: Range Rovers off road)

At 21:43 10.01.96 -0500, Mike Loiodice wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>Paul asks...
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>On a Real Land Rover (one with a *metal* dashboard) you use the curled lip
>at the bottom of the dash to pop off the bottle cap.
And if you drive a Plushmobile, you don't need one.  Champagne corks just
twist out. :-)

Bon appetit!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:19:21 -0800
From: Tom Williams <tbwill@interserv.com>
Subject: D90 SW

Stopped by the local Land Rover dealer today and they have 1 Defender 90 Station 
Wagon available. The other two they received were pre-sold. This particular one 
is green and is number 102 of 500. Don't know if it was just sales hype or not  
but the sales manager said a dealer in Washington had offered sticker price so 
they could deliver it to one of their customers. If any one is interested the 
dealer is Haron Motors in Fresno (209) 237-5533.

Tom Williams
Fresno, California
'95 Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 15:22:23 +0800
From: Oscar <omont@mnl.sequel.net>
Subject: adjusting preload on a rangy- 2nd posting

How do you properly adjust the preload on an '89 NAS rangy withou using the
prescribed shop tools?

TIA

Oscar
omont@mnl.sequel.net
75247.2423@compuserve.com

------------------------------

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