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msgSender linesSubject
1 "John C. White, III" [jc18Re: Door locks freezing
2 landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mi21re:Defender Quest for more heat
3 JEPurnell@aol.com 48Re: That murdererous letch, Ventura. . .
4 JEPurnell@aol.com 32D90 SW hardtop
5 JEPurnell@aol.com 39D90 Check Engine Light
6 PurnellJE@aol.com 21Re: Door locks freezing
7 kpotter@cln.etc.bc.ca (K33Question RE:Bugeye
8 Duncan Brown [DB@CHO004.36Re: Door locks freezing
9 "AMEDEO (Denver, CO)" [163Def rumors & comments
10 Sanna@aol.com 22Re: Door locks freezing
11 Chris Haslam [haslam@alc1488 RR: Rear Seat Belt Assembly
12 Simon Barclay [sbar@jna.37Parts commonality
13 "Gerald" [g@ix.netcom.co14Disco keys
14 "Gerald" [g@ix.netcom.co19Re: Door locks freezing
15 Harincar@mooregs.com (Ti35Series frame over assembly order
16 carley@manly.civeng.unsw24Re: Engine Swaps?
17 NADdMD@aol.com 41Re: Series frame over assembly order
18 spatzek@alaska.net 39Newbie to the group
19 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@em32Re: Def rumors & comments
20 Russell Burns [burns@cis13Re: Def rumors & comments
21 TWakeman/Apple@eworld.co20Re: Def rumors & comments
22 cs@crl.com (Michael Carr43Re: Series frame over assembly order
23 rthomas@postoffice.ptd.n11Horizontal Snow
24 dsticht@usa.net 22D90 AC & Heater
25 jpappa01@interserv.com 51Re:Misc.
26 CORD5@aol.com 9Need Help!
27 Wdcockey@aol.com 24Re: Newbie to the group
28 Jeff & Laura Kessler [lm53Introduction to Range Rover ownership
29 Jeff & Laura Kessler [lm53Introduction to Range Rover ownership
30 landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mi41Re: Horizontal Snow
31 PurnellJE@aol.com 18Re: Horizontal Snow
32 PurnellJE@aol.com 14Re: Misc.
33 PurnellJE@aol.com 21Re: D90 AC & Heater
34 Benjamin Allan Smith [be38[not specified]
35 rlarson@lsil.com (Rick L13ARB leak resolution
36 cmw@tiac.net (cmw) 33Re:Mike at ECR & the dead
37 cmw@tiac.net (cmw) 35Re: Soft vs. Hard tops


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Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 00:15:26 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Door locks freezing

At 01:19 07.01.96 -0500, PurnellJE@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 96-01-06 22:31:03 EST, you write:

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)]
>94 D90, North Pole Wisconsin
>PS...Hey, how 'bout the Pack! Have to admit, I envied seeing the sun.
Yes, how about those Packers.  They may have won, but they still have to go
back to Wisconsin where it's nine degrees.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery (whose locks have never been frozen)
San Francisco, California

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Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 09:43:27 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: re:Defender Quest for more heat

Al asks...

>I was planning on mounting snaps on the grille for the muff to snap to. Any 
>good ideas on how? I really don't care for the look of the wing bolts ha 
>Kingsury and thelike use, and was thinking of simple double-washers with a
bolt 
>through the snap.
-

Why couldn't you just use the button type snaps (male and female ends) and
wrap the muff around the edges of the metal grill?? You can get these snaps
at most marine supply places - usually nickle-plated brass ones - or
probably less weather-resistant ones at sewing/fabric stores. 

Cheers
Mike

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From: JEPurnell@aol.com
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 13:02:44 -0500
Subject: Re: That murdererous letch, Ventura. . . 

In a message dated 96-01-05 14:47:56 EST, you write:

>	Many times, the vehicles destroyed are not worth much in the 
>	first place.  Just like the 88's destroyed in Ace Ventura.  The 
>	cost of restoring the 88's just didn't make it feasible.  You 
>	basically have to build an entire vehicle.  They did make a lot
>	of Land Rovers in the past...  You can't apply "rare" to a corvette,

Good point, Dixon, it's true that some of  the vehicles destroyed are in a
poorer condition than restorers or enthusiasts would like to get them in.
 But this seemed to have been dependent on relative availability, at least in
the shoots I sourced for.  If the movie needed some "mood" vehicle, or a car
that was supposed to impart some "aura" about the character (e.g. Bond and
his underwater Lotus)  cost and scarcity were usually secondary
considerations, within movie industry reason anyway, and the ultimate
decision as to which vehicle was usually up to someone that had no clue as to
value/rarity.  I might bring a couple cars I thought would work, only to have
a creative-type say "not right."  (And  I didn't work for the BIG movies, I
did only non-union independent shoots, so the budgets I was working with were
smaller than things like Ace Ventura).  Since I could find muscle cars easily
in Southern California, like Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, these cars were
always fair game, even though you might not consider them "rare" they are
still sought by enthusiasts, even the not particulary special models of the
breed.  I could easily make a normal camaro "look" like a Z28 or otherwise
"fast" rather than buying a true version.  But the result was the same, one
less rolling chassis for restoration or fun.  This becomes more important for
vehicles with low production numbers, obviously.  And realistically, they
aren't demolishing all the vehicles rented or bought for movies,  I can
remember only 3 cars I got that were for wrecking.   I'll bet if we had the
numbers, there would be no statistical impact on vehicle availability and
movie wrecking. For me, I think it is more an emotional issue.

>              They are interested in bottom line only.  
>	Besides, they did buy the vehicle.  If they want to let it sit and
>	rot, or blow it up, it is their perogative.  I can think of a
>	LR prototype nearby rotting away.  A real shame, but I nor anyone
>	else owns it & the owner will not sell.

And there you have the "real" bottom line.  

John N9EJC
94 D90, Wisconsin

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From: JEPurnell@aol.com
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 13:02:38 -0500
Subject: D90 SW hardtop

For fun I visited my "local" (over an hour) LR dealer since they still had a
green SW on the floor.  Wow, carpet!  what luxury.  Now if anyone is gonna
start talking plushmobile, you'd better include the 90SW.  I bet that one is
quiet going down the road, roll up windows, sissy AT tyres :), heck, there's
even PADDING underneath all that carpet!    I think come summer though (Tom
and Tony--there still IS  a summer here isn't there????), I'd be after those
aluminum pillars with a hacksaw--I'll keep the softtop version. 

Also, have any of you actually ridden in those inward facing 4 rear seats?  I
bet the conventional forward facing 2-person seat is far more comfortable, I
sat in both but never rode.  I truly like the flip up convenience of the
normal seat, I can leave the seat there and still haul some stuff.  I would
never have put the radiator from the Honda Civic I'm working on in the back
of the SW with that carpet and nice upholstered seats, but just threw it in
the back of my rubber matted softy.  And with the salt and crud of the
midwest, thank LR for rubber front mats.  I guess back in Calif you really
only have mud to worry about, and that can come out of carpet easily.  

 The salesman said the guy who bought the previous SW, a white one, sold his
softy D90 in the paper in 2 days, and got what he paid for it new minus the
sales tax, then walked in and bought the SW.  He gets calls for used D90s
every single day.  

John N9EJC
94 D90, Wisconsin
LRNA, keep up the advertising, I "appreciate"  the resale value...

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From: JEPurnell@aol.com
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 13:02:35 -0500
Subject: D90 Check Engine Light

FYI:  Now for the second time my yellow Check Engine Light has "illuminated."
 The first time was the day before driving to Vermont from Wisconsin.  I
stopped in at Berndt LR in BeerTown and read the code: Out of Range Air
control valve.  Came back into range on its own, and no problem.  I am
assuming it is the same problem now, as there has been no difference in how
the engine runs, idles, or anything.  Only difference was this time I was
towing a Honda Civic on a car dolly.  I don't think that had anything to do
with it though as I really didn't feel any load or engine laboring while
towing the car, and I certainly have towed heavier loads without the light
coming on.  If I have the  dealer do the 15K service, I'll have them check
the code then.  I did the 7.5K myself here in town at a friend's shop, and
may just do the 15K too.  That's the trouble with being an hour away from the
dealer, but on the other hand I much prefer doing my own service work-and the
distance kinda forces me to do it.  

I wonder if all this yellow lighting is LR getting back at me for working at
CARB in Cal, the bad BAD regulator, since usually the check engine light,
versus the service engine light,  is more for emissions and fuel inj related
problems that affect emissions.  Ha Ha. . 

 On another positive note, I wrote a letter to LRNA telling them how
satisfied I was that the Service Advisor at Berndt had    gotten me in the
very next morning (a Friday) after the first light came on  to read the code
(and reset the light since nothing was wrong) on my way out of town.  I had a
rental trailer, room reservations, and other people waiting in Vermont, so to
wait till Monday or later would have been a costly pain.  LRNA sent me a
letter back thanking me, and they also sent a cute little key chain with LR
logo on it.  It's the key fob with the two braided steel cables on it, you
know, the one that will easily wear  through a nice pair of wool trousers in
about a week, ya, that one.

John N9EJC
94 D90, Wisconsin

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From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 13:03:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Door locks freezing

In a message dated 96-01-07 03:32:53 EST, jcwhite3@well.com (John C. White,
III)  writes:

>Yes, how about those Packers.  They may have won, but they still have to go
>back to Wisconsin where it's nine degrees.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>'95 Discovery (whose locks have never been frozen)
>San Francisco, California

....Ouch!.....That's cold...(or should I say mean...)   > :)
John
Wisconsin
(let's see, on a rather meager salary, I wonder if I should buy that house on
the lake with the boat slip, or the one on the 10 acres of land to make my
own off-road course? Hmmmm.)

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Date: Sun, 7 Jan 96 10:47:57 PST
From: kpotter@cln.etc.bc.ca (Kyle Potter)
Subject: Question RE:Bugeye

Hello, I live in the Interior of British Columbia, Canada, and own 6 Land
Rovers.
They include:  '64 Series 2a swb truck (Restored)
               '65 Series 2a swb convertible
               '66 Series 2a lwb hardtop
               '63 Series 2a lwb station wagon (Restored)
               '64 Series 2a lwb station wagon 
               '68 Series 2a lwb station wagon
My Question concerns the last one. It is a long wheel based station wagon
'bugeye' with the deluxe interior and a rear galvanized bumper. I was
wondering if this model is possible and where it was exported to
(Canada,etc).  I was also wondering if anyone has experience with putting a
3.2 or 3.6 litre Ford V-6 into a Series Land Rover.  As well I was
wondering if anyone has experience with headers for 2.25 engine, one of the
LR has them on and I was wondering if they add any power etc. to the
performance.  Thanx for your time.
Kyle Potter
Land Rover First because Land Rovers Last!!
Kyle Potter     Volvo 544 x2 63,62
                Volvo 122 x3 65,63,68
                64 Series 2a swb truck (Restored)
               '65 Series 2a swb convertible
               '66 Series 2a lwb hardtop
               '63 Series 2a lwb station wagon (Restored)
               '64 Series 2a lwb station wagon 
               '68 Series 2a lwb station wagon
kpotter@cln.etc.bc.ca
Armstrong, BC.Canada

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Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 14:21:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Re: Door locks freezing

> >Anyone experienced door locks freezing on a RR or DISCO ? Mine have frozen

> Funnily enough, just tonight both my locks are frozen solid, can't get my
> door key in either door.  May have something to do with spraying the truck
> off 2 days ago to get the salt and crud offa it, and that it is 9.1F out
> there.  bbbbrrrrrrr.  Have to get out the de-icer.

    Haven't had problems with the locks on my SII (never lock the
    doors!) But I cannot currently slide my windows open, because of the
    melted/refrozen stuff in along the whole rubber seal.

    We're at over 18 fluffy white inches here in Charlottesville, VA. 
    It was over a foot when I was out at 6:30am this morning, and the
    Rover (with newish Trac-Edges) performed like a champ!  The roads
    where there was only 3 inches of snow since the last plowing were a
    complete piece of cake, and the various turn lanes and subdivision
    streets with a foot of virgin snow were more challenging but never
    even made the beast hesitate.

    By the time I got home, I was leaving diff imprints between the
    wheel ruts in the snow in the driveway, but never even so much as a
    mis-step by my marvelous Rover friend.  Once all the morons are done
    wrecking their Troopers during the daylight hours, I may go out
    again later on.  We're supposed to get 2-3 feet of the stuff.  I may
    have to drive my sister-in-law to DC to catch a train tomorrow, that
    could get interesting...

    Duncan

    PS Hey Stuart, I'll come pick you up for work tomorrow if your wife
    insists it's her turn for the Disco, heh heh heh...

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Date: 07 Jan 96 15:02:36 EST
From: "AMEDEO (Denver, CO)" <102505.3511@compuserve.com>
Subject: Def rumors & comments

1997 DEFENDER???

Just heard rumours that the Defender may come back to the U.S. as a 1997 model
year with early introduction in mid-1996.... if that's the case I am sorry for
those who bought a Def 90 to make a quick buck...

Other comments to recent filings;

ABS   the Discovery ABS is passive, not active like in the Range Rover
so it's not that great. The RR ABS is in my opinion much better although
I don't mind my 87 not having any. Better none than mediocre.

Richard Larson: nice seeing good comments about salesmen.

Terr-Ann Wakeman: thanks for positive salesman comments but why do you
think RR's are not taken off-road? Many of our clients in Colorado and
Wyoming do on their own and in organized dealer and non dealer trips.
Also, about ground effects, did you know that the front spoiler in the
RR is removable so there is no problem... I got mine off all the time.

Bennet Leeds: nice comments about a dealer for a change but why do you say
that you would spend $78 on a Discovery oil change and filter? We charge 
about $ 40 at LR Denver East so it's not out of line. And would you not 
prefer having a factory trained LR technician taking a quick look under your car
while changing the oil and maybe detecting early a problem that
a Jiffy Lube guy may not see? 

Benjamin Smith: O.K. the cost per mile of your Series LR may be slightly
lower than a spanking new Discovery. YOU WON!!!!! Just don't get any big
salary raises because that may no longer be true in the future!!!

John Brabyn: So the 4.0 SE is not the 4 wheeler of the year. Big Deal!
Did you drive it? It is truly wonderful, I don't care what they say.
You don't want skid plates on a luxury vehicle like that? And did you
look yourself under an SE 4.0 ? It's built like a tank.. It does not need
skid plates, let's be real. I don't say RR's are not taken off-road but give me
a break; only an idiot would take that 60k car in the type of terrain that would
require skid plates on top of everything else.
Power? No LR product is fast, it's not a sports car. But many people 
drive the automatics without downshifting so the torque stinks and it feels
doggier than it is.

Geoffrey Halaburt: Congratulations or your new  Def SW. Did you get the
Arles Blue you wanted? We did not get any in Denver yet.

Hong Kong subscriber: I will be there in February. Tell us more about
LR products there, and what cars the Dealer sells.

Mark Kraieski: You may want to put Range Rover 205 Michelins on your 
Discovery. I think they are the best tires period and they will fit your
rims.

Regards,

Amedeo 
Land Rover Denver East
Salesman
87 RR 

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From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 15:18:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Door locks freezing

>>Haven't had problems with the locks on my SII (never lock the
    doors!)

Actually, my IIa doesn't have locks, but if the dorrs would freeze shut I'd
just climb through the canvas.

However, my '89 RR is a different matter.  Long ago (early '70's) I stopped
expecting  anything but the drive train & suspension to work flawlessly (on
Lulubelle, my IIa, that is), and it seems to be the same on the RR as well.
 The door locks are definitly one of those problematic areas.  Sometimes they
all lock/unlock, sometimes they don't.  In the winter the rear gate is
definitely a problem since it has a catch-cup that faces upward to collect
and freeze water in the lock, and '89 was in the pre-heated door lock era.  I
just always carry a bottle (the squeeze bottles are the best) of lock thaw
with me at all times, and so far the drivers door hasn't frozen shut so I
can't get at it.  A preventive sqirt or two works wonders. - Tony

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Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 16:01:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Haslam <haslam@alcor.concordia.ca>
Subject: 88 RR: Rear Seat Belt Assembly

My wife and several kids managed to mash the female part (short) of the 
rear seat belt: the clip got crushed when they tried to put the movable 
seat back.

Does anyone have one for sale, at a reasonable price?  Part Number is 
RWC1673RUN.

...chris haslam
88 RR

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From: Simon Barclay <sbar@jna.com.au>
Subject: Parts commonality
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 96 08:53:00 EST

Hi there

Has anyone ever heard of a book/magazine, or just a 'list' of parts that are 
interchangeable between models.  I guess this is probably of interest more 
to series owners, but may be of use to others.

I know from time to time clubs will print a list of parts that can be 
substituted from other vehicles - for example here in Oz you can use Ford 
351GT  universals to replace those on your RR or Holden Torana carb 
diaphragms for pre '86 spec RR's (though I haven't tried either).   Pre '84 
RR's have a tendency for the windscreen washer bottle tops to rust out and 
these can be replaced with the tops of medium sized vegimite jars (what else 
would you expect in Oz!!).

But has anyone got a 'list' indicating parts commonality from early Series 
1's onwards.  I am restoring a '51 Series 1 and while I would like to keep 
things as close to factory spec as possible this just may not be practical 
(or cost effective???).  It has a Series 2 tie rod and a 2A driving member. 
 I believe a S3 carbie would work too!  But what about distributors, or do I 
have to use an S1??  The diffs are Rover, are the same on 2's, 2A's??...what 
about the drive shafts??

Maybe there is already a webb page for this sort of thing!

Any thoughts or comments would be welcomed.

Simon Barclay
Sydney Australia

'90 5sp RR
'51 Series 1 (Louie)

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From: "Gerald" <g@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 17:59:29 -0500
Subject: Disco keys

What is under the plastic on a Disco key? If I remove it will there 
be a way to put the key on a keychain? The stuff is just too thick. 
Now if it had a built in flashlight the way Porche's used too (still 
do?) . . . .

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

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From: "Gerald" <g@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 17:59:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Door locks freezing

Between snow storms I decided to get my Disco washed. Last week 
someone got the color wrong there was so much crud on it. About half 
an hour later the drivers door key lock froze. Other door locks work and 
the electronic key still works.

During the car wash  bunch of ice collected between the spare and
the rear windshield wiper. Almost enough to break the rear wiper.

Finally got a Disco to return my wave today. 

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

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From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 17:26:55 -0600
Subject: Series frame over assembly order

Hi all,

Getting ready to begin the frame replacement on my '66 IIa 88. I know a   
few of you have done this before, so I'd like to inquire the order you   
moved components.

My plan was to remove most of the body (top, doors & seats came off   
yesterday (in -3 degree temps; back in the garage now), then do fuel   
tank, suspension components, engine & other drivetrain comps,   
electricals, and then back to body (with overlap as necessary).

I'd like to hear from those experienced in doing this what they found to   
work best (and quickest, want to be rolling again when the weather gets   
nice).

Thanks,

tim

ps - I had to leave the roof in the driveway over night. I was worried   
that local kids might think it to be a great sled to pull behind a car   
when flipped over and steal it. Its safe in the garage now, but the sled   
idea actually sounded kind of fun (if you're into snow like we are in   
Minnesota)...

 ---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW "those safari tops are *heavy*"

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Date: Mon, 8 Jan 96 10:57:03 EST
From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff)
Subject: Re:  Engine Swaps?

To add fuel to Chris' fire on engine swaps and correct one minor error.

Holden in Australia is owned by GM and their straight 6 engines of the 50's
60's, 70's and 80's are related to GM (I think).

The most popular conversion for series LR in Oz is either a 202 CI/3.3 L or
186 CI/ 3.0 L Holden 6. These engines were in maybe 30% of all cars sold
in Aust in the 60's and 70's, and are pretty bullet proof, and able to be
hotted up if you want to, but in standard form are no powerhouse. I would
guess that almost 30 to 50% of series2 and 3 LR in Aust have this conversion.

Those with a bit more $ to spend go for Nissan 5 sp box. Nissan Caball truck
5 sp is favoured according to my local LR converter. The standard LR transfer
case is supposed to be able to handle a lot more power and speed than the 
standard LR engine can deliver without problems.

James Carley
Sydney, Australia
'85 110

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 19:14:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Series frame over assembly order

Tim,

I have just done this exact thing.  Not that I'm an expert, but what worked
well for me was to remove the truck bed AFTER removing the gas tank filler
hose and duct taping over the opening.   Next I took off the hood,doors and
fenders (an angle grinder can be invaluable).  This left the car with the
seat base, floor panels and dash panel.  After removing the floor panels and
tunnel cover, remove the seat base.  I then disconnected ALL cables and wires
from their respective end parts, LEAVING them attached to the dashpanel and
removed the dashpanel with the sill rails.  Since I was replacing the springs
and shocks, I released the rearward attachment of the rear springs, took off
the shocks and ground off the U bolts to the rear axle.  Then I simply rolled
the rear axle into place on the new frame (which had the springs partially
attached). I did the same in the front, lifting the front end with a tractor
 (an engine hoist may work as well)  This left the engine back to the speedo
housing on the old chassis.  It was easier to get new mounts for the engine
so that I didn't have to keep the engine hoisted very long.  After removing
the radiator, I lifted the whole engine-to-speedo housing with the tractor
(again an engine hoist would work) and moved it to the new chassis.  

The whole process was very straightforward, but is easier with a friend.  Use
lots of liquid wrench, try to use six sided sockets (to prevent rounding of
corners), practice with the angle grinder, and nut splitter and keep in mind
 that some places have captive nuts or bolts.

Good luck.

Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, Maryland USA 21020
NADdMD@aol.com
67 SIIA 

home(410)429-4964
work(410)828-2704

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From: spatzek@alaska.net
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 15:42:21 -0900
Subject: Newbie to the group

Where do I begin! I have a case of LR fever that only purchasing one will 
satisfy. The main problem is that up here in the Frozen North (can't say "Great 
White North" this year, only 8 inches here in Anchorage all winter!) LR's  tend 
to be few and far between. I've seen one all winter and he was rather gruff and 
not at all disposed to chatting. 

My main questions are:
1)What are the real restrictions to bringing one over from Britain? I already 
know about the 1975 year limit if a diesel and the gas vehicle exemption of 
pre-68, but what about the impact standards. Or do the exemptions take care of 
this as well?
2)I've been looking at all the bookstores, but NOBODY carries LR Books. Could 
the group recommend a good text or two to get me started. I can always order if 
I know what books are best.
3) As to vehicle choice, I'm leaning towards something in an ex-mod type 
vehicle. I tend towards the lightweight diesel type, but a ex-mod LWB diesel 
would be ok too. I prefer diesel, better life, fuel economy and easier to get 
into the country. Also less to go wrong, ie plugs, points, condenser, much 
simpler, electically and mechanically.
4)Why ex mod? Several reasons actually, the first being price, I've seen prices 
for ex-mod vehicles that appear VERY reasonable. Second, I belong to the Alaska 
State Defense Force, (state equivalent of the Alaska National Guard) and we have 
outings for training and also several combined gun/vehicle shows per year. This 
vehicle would alternate with my Ford Bronco as a daily driver and kind of rough 
and ready show vehicle.
I notice several dealers in LRO and LRW that claim to be importers of Military 
Surplus Land Rovers, any advance knowledge of past dealings with same would also 
be welcome.

This then, my first post, please treat it and me kindly, I have much to learn!

73 (Amateur Radio Talk for best wishes) Paul Spatzek WL7BF (spatzek@alaska.net) 
I'd appreciate

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Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 20:07:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Def rumors & comments

On 7 Jan 1996, AMEDEO (Denver, CO) wrote:

> Did you drive it? It is truly wonderful, I don't care what they say.
> You don't want skid plates on a luxury vehicle like that? And did you
> look yourself under an SE 4.0 ? It's built like a tank.. It does not need
> skid plates, let's be real. 

	The underside of the 4.0SE is an amazing collection of traps for
	mud, salt and dirt.  I'll betcha the warranty claims in the salt belt
	are going to be impressive...

	BTW, now that's winter has arrived, how are the no-start levels?
	Impressive up here.  Seems the worst thing you can do to a RR or 
	a Disco is add a remote starter.  

> I don't say RR's are not taken off-road but give me a break; only an 
> idiot would take that 60k car in the type of terrain that would
> require skid plates on top of everything else.

	Then why advertise them in that fashion?  

	Question:  What is the cost of a starter motor for a '94 Disco
	and the cost of a fusable link on a '94 Range Rover?

	Rgds,

	Dixon

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From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Def rumors & comments
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 96 17:28:13 PST

> > I don't say RR's are not taken off-road but give me a break; only an 
> > idiot would take that 60k car in the type of terrain that would
> > require skid plates on top of everything else.

Thank god for idiots, their the only thing that keeps the world turning....

Russ Burns

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From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 17:33:42 -0800
Subject: Re: Def rumors & comments

----------------------------- Begin Original Text --------------------------

Terr-Ann Wakeman: thanks for positive salesman comments but why do you
think RR's are not taken off-road?
----------------------------- End Original Text -----------------------------

There are a LOT of Range Rovers in Silicon Valley and there are some on the
West coast Land rover list.  People o that list have frequent outigs,  I have
participatd i several of them.  I have only personally seen ONE Range Rover
off road.  EVER.

Thats why

TeriAnn

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Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 17:55:38 +0000
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Series frame over assembly order

 Tim Harincar <Harincar@mooregs.com> writes:

:Getting ready to begin the frame replacement on my '66 IIa 88. I know a   
:few of you have done this before, so I'd like to inquire the order you   
:moved components.
:
:My plan was to remove most of the body (top, doors & seats came off   
:yesterday (in -3 degree temps; back in the garage now), then do fuel   
:tank, suspension components, engine & other drivetrain comps,   
:electricals, and then back to body (with overlap as necessary).

 Oh geeez!!! Too late already!

 Out West we do "underbody" removal of Land Rover frames, that is, leaving
 everything on the top on, slipping the old frame off from below, and a new
 frame on in reverse.  Generally the way it works is this... you place the
 new frame under the Land Rover, usually by driving over it and jokeying
 the frame to get the outriggers between the wheels.  Then, using jackstands
 and cut to length tree stumps, etc. support the Land Rover body and upper
 mechanics, including the engine, tranny, petrol tank, etc.  Next, loosen
 the frame from the upper Land Rover and drop it down.  Cut the old frame
 apart with your acetylene torch and slide the pieces out, including both
 axles.  Lift the new frame up and reattach to the upper Land Rover,  then
 reattach the engine, tranny, tank, etc. and then the axles slide back under
 the truck to be fastened.  **Voila** all done... sounds much harder than it
 actually is :)

 Too bad you already removed all the top stuff.  Maybe on you next frameover
 you can try the Western Underbody method.

 Cheers,

                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

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Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 21:47:43 -0500
From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas)
Subject: Horizontal Snow

2 feet, drifting to 5 feet so far with 30 to 40 mph winds here in eastern
Pennsylvania.  
Thought I'd go out and play with the IIA in the snow but they've closed the
roads now.

Oh well.

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From: dsticht@usa.net
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 19:49:45 -0700
Subject: D90 AC & Heater

Been reading this thread about the D90 w/ac and no heat on the pasenger side. I 
have a 94D90 w/ac. Had the same problem last winter. Last summer I took the ac 
duct unit out to see what the answer could be and also found a redirected 
heating duct that seemed to go nowhere but to heat up the tray that kept my 
gloves warm. The solution was to purchase another heat deflector as would be if 
without ac. Also buy a short section of aluminum exhaust duct for a clothes 
dryer, from a hardware store. Now, cut a hole in the ac duct unit over the old 
original hot air outlet. Put new deflector over new hole. Now, place a section 
of flexible duct inside ac duct to redirect "hot" air to new deflector. I held 
mine in place with duct tape. Will see how that stuff holds up after the winter 
is over here in the middle of New Hampshire. Lots more heet to passenger's 
feet!!
cheers
David Sticht
'94 D90 AA "1ROVER"
'96 Disco

------------------------------
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From: jpappa01@interserv.com
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 19:42:42 -0800
Subject: Re:Misc.

1) Have had a run of bad tail lamp socket assys on D90 SWs delivered recently. 
They allow water ingress, pull lotsa current, and the coating burns off of the 
contacts and they fail very quickly and look as though they are a hundred 
years old! They really are not very good units. Evey thirty year old Lucas 
assemblies are far superior. Replacing them is only temporary fix. The Rover 
hardcore will come up with a solution as always. For now, I recommend dousing 
the internals with dielectric grease and sealing everything once reconnected 
with RTV or wrap w/inner tube and secure w/tie wraps. Crude but better than 
this fire drill!

2) Thread on D90 heater effectiveness w/AC installed. Early A/C blanked the 
passenger side outlet. Later units have a pass through outlet (small round 
w/louvres) in the front of the unit in passenger footwell. This still isn't as 
good as the heater w/no AC installed, but at least some warm air is able to 
pass directly into the footwell.

3) Interesting observation on Mercedes AAV. Yes it will compete short term 
w/Discovery (at least at price point) but eventually will be directly 
competing w/new Land Rover *Adventurer* nee-CB40. This new model will share 
much more of the AAV functionality than it does with the Discovery. 

4) Personal observation lately is that many Discoveries are being shipped 
w/Goodyear Eagles in place of Michelins. This primarily due to worldwide 
shortage of Michelins. Land Rover got stuffed when Michelin was awarded a fat 
new contract and has resulted in production shortage. I have the Goodyears on 
my dealer demo SE-7 and find it to be basically equivalent in ride quality. 
Off road experience has been limited to about a foot-deep hard-packed icy snow 
and it performed admirably in high range - even without diff lock. So far, 
owners haven't complained.

5) Another BSROA member is putting his D110 up for sale. He is asking 39500 
and it has about 39K miles w/factory winch setup and Hellas. Any interest can 
post me privately and I will furnish phone number, etc. BTW, the original D110 
*on blocks* was withdrawn and is no longer for sale. 

cheers
Jim - now we're looking for 24 inches of new snow! Diff lock?

`67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid
`67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid
`68 2B 110 F/C diesel
`70 P6B 3500S
`90 Range Rover County
`93 D110 (#457/500)
`95 D90 #1958

------------------------------
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From: CORD5@aol.com
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 22:54:59 -0500
Subject: Need Help!

Can someone send me the lro-digest from 1/6/96?  The file did not download
properly to my computer and I lost it.  I tried to retrieve it automatically
from the majordomo automated system but it didn't work.   Thanks, Cord

------------------------------
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From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 23:19:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Newbie to the group

In a message dated 96-01-07 20:03:31 EST, you write:

>1)What are the real restrictions to bringing one over from Britain?

Helped a friend import a '70 SIIA from Canada and we had to have a
conversation with U.S. Customs about what can be legally imported. They
initially said pre-'68, but we persuaded them to check and on a form with
about 10 different possible boxes to check as to legality was the first box
with a clause of "or 25 years old or older". This is the relevant clause, and
vehicles over 25 years are exempt from having to meet U.S. safety standards.
The LR in question had a U.S. EPA sticker, but the customs folks didn't seem
to care about EPA anyway. Other possible boxes are that the manufacturer
certifies the vehicle as meeting applicable standards but don't waste your
time, or that you are a manufacturer. In the latter case you need to be
genuine, post a bond, and are subject to spot checks so forget about that
one. Basically, 25 years or older.

David Cockey

------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 23:13:19 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Introduction to Range Rover ownership

Hi!  My name is Jeff and I have been subscribing to the list for the past
few weeks (shortly after we finally broke down and got on the Internet).

We have an 88 Range Rover we bought just over 3 months ago.  I have been a
Land Rover fan for over 20 years, ever since I spent a Christmes break
cruising with a friend in his 66 109 SW.  So when my local GM dealer
(Dartmouth Motors in Newport NH) took this RR in trade (and not knowing a
thing about them) they gave me a call and loaned it to me for a few days to
check it over.

Some comments:

I have used both Rovers North and Atlantic British for parts and technical
assistance and both are great.  RN parts are more expensive but they freely
gave me advice and answered my questions prior to our purchase and most
recently last week when moisture in my fuel system froze and put the RR off
the road in the sub 0 degree F we are having. (I'm back running thank you.)

I know why newer RRs have heated windshields and seats.  Can a muff be
placed to block air from a RR radiator to get more heat?  When the family
travels in this cold the vehicle we take is our all wheel drive GMC Safari
van.  That has a heater!

I always thought I would get a Series LR as an extra vehicle but I am very
happy to have this RR as my main vehicle.  The full time 4 wheel drive makes
travel much safer and worry free then shifting in and out of 4wd.  The RR is
replacing an older Isuzu Trooper, which I dug out of the snow and used when
the RR was down, so we come from the STOP-SHIFT INTO 4WD-START AGAIN world.
Even though our Isuzu served us well for 10 years (did get parked on its
roof once, i did not even get a picture), I am still amazed by how much
better a vehicle the RR is. ( I heard Isuzu is coming out with Shift on the
Fly finally. Welcome to the 80's).

It seems others also realize the benefit of running Hellas on their Rovers.  

I also learned of a place for service in Keene NH (40 miles).  Our local
garage, Metric Motors in Newport, is great but has little experience with
RRs.  Sooner or later I will need to track down why my EFI light is on
(bought it that way and I am amazed I have let it go as long.  maybe a trip
to Keene is in order.  The LR dealers are at least 2 hours away.

As I learn more about our RR I have more questions. I will be asking them in
the future.  Reading the digest has answered some even before I know to ask.
Thanks for letting me introduce myself and run on some.

Jeff Kessler
88 RR
Newport NH  603-863-7883

------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 23:13:25 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Introduction to Range Rover ownership

Hi!  My name is Jeff and I have been subscribing to the list for the past
few weeks (shortly after we finally broke down and got on the Internet).

We have an 88 Range Rover we bought just over 3 months ago.  I have been a
Land Rover fan for over 20 years, ever since I spent a Christmes break
cruising with a friend in his 66 109 SW.  So when my local GM dealer
(Dartmouth Motors in Newport NH) took this RR in trade (and not knowing a
thing about them) they gave me a call and loaned it to me for a few days to
check it over.

Some comments:

I have used both Rovers North and Atlantic British for parts and technical
assistance and both are great.  RN parts are more expensive but they freely
gave me advice and answered my questions prior to our purchase and most
recently last week when moisture in my fuel system froze and put the RR off
the road in the sub 0 degree F we are having. (I'm back running thank you.)

I know why newer RRs have heated windshields and seats.  Can a muff be
placed to block air from a RR radiator to get more heat?  When the family
travels in this cold the vehicle we take is our all wheel drive GMC Safari
van.  That has a heater!

I always thought I would get a Series LR as an extra vehicle but I am very
happy to have this RR as my main vehicle.  The full time 4 wheel drive makes
travel much safer and worry free then shifting in and out of 4wd.  The RR is
replacing an older Isuzu Trooper, which I dug out of the snow and used when
the RR was down, so we come from the STOP-SHIFT INTO 4WD-START AGAIN world.
Even though our Isuzu served us well for 10 years (did get parked on its
roof once, i did not even get a picture), I am still amazed by how much
better a vehicle the RR is. ( I heard Isuzu is coming out with Shift on the
Fly finally. Welcome to the 80's).

It seems others also realize the benefit of running Hellas on their Rovers.  

I also learned of a place for service in Keene NH (40 miles).  Our local
garage, Metric Motors in Newport, is great but has little experience with
RRs.  Sooner or later I will need to track down why my EFI light is on
(bought it that way and I am amazed I have let it go as long.  maybe a trip
to Keene is in order.  The LR dealers are at least 2 hours away.

As I learn more about our RR I have more questions. I will be asking them in
the future.  Reading the digest has answered some even before I know to ask.
Thanks for letting me introduce myself and run on some.

Jeff Kessler
88 RR
Newport NH  603-863-7883

------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 21:08:00 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: Horizontal Snow

Randall Thomas speaks of snow...

>2 feet, drifting to 5 feet so far with 30 to 40 mph winds here in eastern
>Pennsylvania.  
>Thought I'd go out and play with the IIA in the snow but they've closed the
>roads now.
-

Nice to hear that someone else is getting belted for a change... although I
guess we'll get the tail end of this storm.

A couple of years ago after a similar storm, I called my parents to see how
they were doing. They had snow drifts high enough so they could not see out
of the first floor windows, so I figured that I should drive up and help
them dig out. They live about 30 miles away, in the next county. Off I went
in my SerIII (Fern), canvas top and all. The winds were blowing from the
west, which put the deepest parts of the snow drifts on the right-hand side
of the truck. Every time I hit a snow drift the heater sucked in lots of
snow and blew it up inside the truck. It was a white-out most of the way and
there were quite a few drifts I had to hit more than once to break through.
I got a bit worried when the carb started to ice up, but fortunately I got
to a spot where the woods blocked the wind and kept the engine running. Like
an idiot I kept going. The next couple of miles were just as bad and took me
into the next town. I knew what would lie ahead and decided to call it
quits. So, I turned around and went home. 

After I got home I found out that the road I was on was officially closed... 

Enjoy the snow!

Cheers
Mike Loiodice
166 W. Fulton St.                  1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green     
Gloversville                       1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo
NY  12078  (USA)        7          1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue
                     #:-}>

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From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 00:54:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Horizontal Snow

In a message dated 96-01-07 22:13:17 EST, you write:

>2 feet, drifting to 5 feet so far with 30 to 40 mph winds here in eastern
>Pennsylvania.  
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>roads now.
>Oh well.

I can't believe it, you're gettin' all the fun while we here Wisconsites are
only getting 4.5 degrees F, but NO snow.  What are we doing wrong?  Do you
think you hogs could give up a little of the white stuff?
John 

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From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 00:54:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Misc.

In a message dated 96-01-07 23:07:34 EST, you write:

>cheers
>Jim - now we're looking for 24 inches of new snow! Diff lock?

quit rubbing it in...  :)

John.

------------------------------
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From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 00:54:29 -0500
Subject: Re: D90 AC & Heater

In a message dated 96-01-07 22:13:29 EST, you write:

>Will see how that stuff holds up after the winter 
>is over here in the middle of New Hampshire. Lots more heet to passenger's 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>David Sticht
>'94 D90 AA "1ROVER"

Yes!  I am glad you posted this note David.  I was having the same thoughts
and I'm glad you've taken it farther than my thinkings have gotten me.  I
guess you could go one step more and just vent the passenger heat into the AC
duct and use those vents as air directors.
thanks,
John N9EJC
94 D90, Wisc

------------------------------
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Subject: Re: Horizontal Snow 
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 22:34:04 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199601080555.AAA03412@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote:

] ]2 feet, drifting to 5 feet so far with 30 to 40 mph winds here in eastern
] ]Pennsylvania.  
  
] I can't believe it, you're gettin' all the fun while we here Wisconsites are
] only getting 4.5 degrees F, but NO snow.  What are we doing wrong?  Do you
] think you hogs could give up a little of the white stuff?

	Meanwhile here in Ridgecrest (California) it was warm enough for
T-shirts and shorts.  But then we did have an early morning wakeup call in
the form of a 5.2 "aftershock".  Mad me real nervous as I spent most of the day 
under the Rover with one corner jacked up and a wheel off.  (I replaced front 
brake shoes, tranny brake shoes and one of the rear springs.  I guess that 
leaves the other spring for tomorrow)   

	Luckily for me, I ment to jack the Rover up last night and leave it
with the rear springs off, but didn't because I didn't want the neighbors kids 
playing near it before I got up in the morning. 

	As for snow, I think we already got our allotment in the form of 4 
inches a few weeks ago.  (And before you all yell an scream about my warm(er)
weather, just think of me in the summer when I have 100 days above 100F (and 
30+ days around 115F)).

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation                   Blacker Hovse
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

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Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 22:41:07 -0800
From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: ARB leak resolution

Mentioned on at least one list that my rear ARB was leaking.  Turned out to
be a defective U-seal.  This was a known problem with some units shipped
around the time mine had been installed.  They paid for the repair and I'm
satisfied that they acknowledged the problem and took care of it.

-Rick
'94 D90
Waiting for the front to go.........

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Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 02:29:33 -0500
From: cmw@tiac.net (cmw)
Subject: Re:Mike at ECR & the dead

> But the real story is 
>that all but two of the 88's supplied to the movie company were utter
>garbage! How do I know you ask, well I'm the one who built them. When the
>call came in from the movie company, we had two weeks to put together 5
>88's. ...
Heh,heh -glad you saw fit to post something on this, I remembered that you
had done these and it was pestering me -but I wasn't about to throw you to
the dogs!
Or the purists, or whatever. :-)

>... Man those trucks were a mess. ...
> The majority of the trucks were non running wrecks we pulled out of
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>the film was shot in Texas and South Carolina too, not Africa. Movie magic
>can do wonders, I guess it fooled you.

With your explaination that these were not big $$ restorations that were
destroyed, and a little bit of experience looking around at "Excellent
Original Condition" Rovers I'm sure everyone has gotten the picture.

For everybody else, Mike does really nice work on Rovers (as opposed to
"really nice" as seen in ads for Rovers ;-)-hopefully he'll be doing some
for me 
soon!?!

Anybody know how to break a dock-workers' strike??

Chris

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Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 02:38:00 -0500
From: cmw@tiac.net (cmw)
Subject: Re: Soft vs. Hard tops

JEPurnell@aol.com asked about soft tops & weather.  I'm new here, and to
Rovers but I did just come away from more than 5 years with a soft top!

>In fact, I bought it so late that the
>dealer had 2 1995s on the floor and was very eager to deal on my 94.  I
>walked into a perfect situation.  
Lucky Duck ;-)
...
>Another point I thought of was how long can we expect the Bestops to last?  I
>don't mean the windows yellowing, but the canvas and the stitching?  Will
>running it in the winter reduce its lifespan, being cold stiff and flapping?
...
>  I wonder which will promote wear more: winter or summer?

I found that the summer sun was much worse than winter cold for the top of
my car.  I thought about the hard top (for about ten seconds -$6k-!) but
decided against it.  I feel that the top can be kept in great condition
through the winter if it can be kept clear/dry.  The extent to which water
would penetrate my top and /then/ freeze was what would worry me most.  When
I kept it clear to prevent snow from melting into the fabrice, or warmed it
up to melt ice off of it before hitting the road I didn't have a care.  -It
only gets down to -20 or so here in Mass. -but that top and associated black
parts were often headed toward 200 plus in the summer sun!  The top, thinner
than that of the Rover, lasted over 5 years -still looking good (try Safecut
polish and carnuba wax on the windows).
So, all told, if for the most part you can keep the top from freezing
/solid/ in the cold, and from baking from full sun whenever possible you
should be in good shape for quite a while.

Chris

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