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Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 01:15:06 -0800
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: GPS placement in sII

I'm not sure if this will work with other than a SII (as I'm used to my SII, 
and not others) but I've found a great place to mount my Garmin 45 GPS.  

out yet.)

First, get the Garmin holder thing.  Then, unscrew the base part, so all 
you've got is the part that actually holds the GPS.  Then, make a new base 
part out of aluminum (or whatever) like this:
    .-------. 
    |   _   |
   /:  (_)  :\
  / :       : \
 /O_:_______:_O\

Fold the little wings up (on the dotted lines) so that looking from the end, 
it looks like |________|.  The bolt that held the holder to the base goes 
through the holes in the wings, then the hole in the middle goes on the bolt 
holding the windscreen up.  

This will put the GPS in the lower left (or right) corner of your view area. 
 Perfect, and easy!

It would be great to use the stock base, but it's too big to fit in where the 
bolt is.  Different series vehicles may be able to use the standard base, 
though.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: 27 Dec 95 06:08:21 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: New and old Rovers, Dealerships

> understand your anger, but I don't think it is a Rover problem. It is a
> dealership, just need to make a buck problem, Rover, Ford, Jaguar, all
> makes.

Not neccessarily. One notable exception seems to be - hate to admit it -
Mercedes Benz. A friend of mine owns a weird sort of 'expedition mobile'
made up of part of a railway carriage bolted on top of an ex-mil. 4WD
1963 Mercedes truck with 7.3 litre straight six Mercedes diesel, the
whole rig still has all the original parts, and the engine never had
anything but oil change and belt tightening for the past 30 years.
Whenever he lumbers onto the yard of any Mecedes dealership, *everybody*
including the manager come running out and absolutely *swoon* over this
wonderfully preserved immaculate piece of automotive history and show
real pride how this product of theirs has survived all these years and
well over a million kilometers in such good condition.
I guess it has to do with whether or not a dealership is really
conscious and educated about the marque they work for and what it stands
for. It seems many LR dealers aren't.
Sorry about the non-LR bandwidth...  and a Happy New Year to all
Roverheads, may your drive shafts last and your oil leaks prosper!

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 9:24:50 EST
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:Santa good to me/What's up?

Hi All,
Hope your holiday was as good as mine!

Santa left a Hi-Lift jack, Max Axe tool, and a pair of Hella lights under 
my tree! Santa truly knows how to make a LRO happy!

Cheers
Barnett

P.S. In regards to the bulk of the postings on the list lately:

I don't understand what's going on here? I don't know about anyone else 
but I find reading about series owners problems, repairs, & advice they 
can give to us newer owners, or talk of new LR modifications to enhance 
off-roading, or info on some great trails or rally's a LOT more 
interesting than my LR is better than your LR, or LRNA sucks, discussions 
that go on & on forever. 

Am I in the minority here?

Why lower ourselves's to the "Jeep" mentality of my "CJ is better than 
your YJ?"

Let's face it, there are not that many of us LRO's in the first place! 
Isn't that why we band together, and talk on the NET, so we don't feel so 
isolated from each other?  ALL LAND ROVERS ARE REAL LAND ROVERS!

Dealers - Exist to sell and service new models, and be profitable. If they 
can't make a profit LR as a company is DEAD!

Company's like RN - Exist to get ANYONE parts for ANY LR, and be 
profitable. If they can't make a profit they're DEAD, and a valuable 
source for older vehicle parts & info  ceases to exist.

If anyone else feels like I do, PLEASE, post your feelings so we can get 
back to talking about the real issue, LOVE OF LAND ROVER'S!

 
  

------------------------------

Date: 27 Dec 95 11:11:36 EST
From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: Copy of: Majorette Rangie

---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:	William L. Leacock, 75473,3572
TO:	Digest, Internet:land-rover-owner@uk.stratus.com
DATE:	12/16/95 4:56 PM

RE:	Copy of: Majorette Rangie

Larry Smith writes re the rr and caravan from Majorette, ( serie 3040- 3070 )
they do at least two versions, a tan rangie, Freeway with a tan caravan, a light
blue Rangie with colored blobs and a blue and white caravan and a dark blue
rangie with buggy racing decals with a trailer and beach buggy, There is also a
black rangie with coloured stripes with the beach buggy and trailer also
available in different colours.
 The Rangies are available separately ( serie 3010-3020 ) in various color
schemes, I have 4 different ones.
 Using simillar tooling they market Sonic Alarm ( serie 3400) in 3 or 4
different color schemes, these sold in fraance for about 15 bucks and had a
battery which is suposed to work for 5000 actions it has an alarm if someone
moves it after setting with a private key, and flash the headlights.  I have a
green version with Roarin Monster decals and a yellow version  with a green
tiger decal

 regards   Bill Leacock     Limey in exile.

------------------------------

Date: 27 Dec 95 11:12:51 EST
From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: Old Mail

For some weeks I have been experiencing mail sending problems, the stuff I sent
dissappered into the wild blue yonder, one finally made it so I will try another
old one to see if it is 'fixed"
 Happy New year and Hogmanay to any Scottish readers.

Bill Leacock    Limey ( Sassenach ) in exile.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 11:22:04 EST
From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins)
Subject: Re: Disco pricing redux

On the topic of 5 Speeds, I would have preferred one, but I was told that
the lead time to order one was much longer.  I was also told that they only
made up a small % of the fleet.  As I was already concerned about Rover
maintenance, I did not want to place myself into the small % that had the
manual.  I presume that Rover OEM's the tranny, but that's a
unsubstantiated assumption.

On the topic of tdi's: I would love one.  This is one area where I really
prefer some of the US trucks, they have many multifuel engines available.
I am not liooking forward to taking my Rover to South America, and burning
out the catalytic converter on leaded fuel, a tdi would be perfect.  (yes I
want to make a serious road trip one day :-)  )

On the topic of plush vs stripped down.  Well, I actually like being
comfortable on my way to asaulting the next hill, and that AC helps :-)

ttfn

Tom Des Jardins, Inbound Technology Group
FORE Systems (412)635-3374  FAX 635-3333 url http://www.fore.com
5800 Corporate Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15237-5829

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 10:57:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Salesmen

On Sun, 24 Dec 1995, John C. White, III wrote:

> "crap" for making a profit.  However, one can't help but wonder at the
> pricing policies on parts and accessories of the various dealers.  Maybe you
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> afford to buy these expensive machines, then it's okay to gouge them on the
> price of parts.

	I am curious on what the price is for a '95 Disco Starter...  Let
	us say that the price in Canada is pretty dear...  Anyone know?

> I think you've also been unkind and unfair to the Series LROs, but I'll let
> them recount their mistreatments at the hands of LRNA and its dealers.  Be
> prepared for an earful.  You've got it coming.

	I understand that there is a message limit under RFC822... :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 10:30:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Axle tips and others

On Sat, 23 Dec 1995, Alexander P. Grice wrote:

> Merry Christmas to All...and may your Rover get frequent, regular oil 
> changes (Dixon) in the coming year.

	Having my 109 described as a rolling Exxon Valdez seems to be hiding
	somewhere in the back of my mind along with a particular butternut
	carving of an II/IIA 88".  I prefer to think that my 109 gets a
	continuous oil change.  Besides, if I am going to bring it down to
	the Mid-Atlantic Rally next year, I need to have a trail to find
	my way back home.  Can't just tell the Rover to go where it is colder.
	It would rather stay in Virginia.

	Best of the season to you...

	Rgds,

	PS.  Washing the oil filter in varsol renews it quite well...  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:31:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: LRNA's disdain

On Tue, 26 Dec 1995, Tom Rowe wrote:

> Interesting, the thread on showroom disdain for Series vehicles. Gee, 
> wonder what would happen if I parked my topless camo lightweight in 
> front of a dealer's showroom? I'm tempted ;-)
	
	When I go and visit friends working at the local LR dealership
	I park the 109 right in front of their windows, next to the Disco 
	and RR out on display.  Basically where they don't want the
	public parking.  No adverse comments, even about the 109 marking
	her territory underneath... :-)

	Rgds,

	PS,  Actually the 109 parked there has drawn some customers in the
	     few times it has been there.  Ted & Jason's III's parked out
	     beside the dealership do the same, though the person is more
	     likely than not to want a used Series vehicle.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 08:40:18 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: discovery radio/Cas

Andy,

The '95 Discovery Electrical Troubleshooting Manual (which includes non-NAS)
doesn't say how to re-enter the code by clearing what is already displayed.
Since the radio doesn't function (right?) I would disconnect power to it to
re-initialize code entry.  According to the manual the display should read
"CODE" when its turned on after a power disconnect.  Enter the five numbers
using the six station selection buttons.  If you get it wrong the first
time, finish out five digits.  The radio should redisplay CODE.  You have up
to three tries.  If blow it each of the three times "the radio will not
accept another entry until it has been left on for one hour."  "Exception:
If you hear a beep when entering your code, stop immediately!  Begin
entering the code again, starting with the first digit."  (The quoted parts
are from the '95 Discovery NAS owner's manual, but are in line with the
non-NAS instructions in the Troubleshooting Manual.)

Good luck!
John

At 08:12 07.12.95 GMT, fv67@dial.pipex.com wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>Help
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)]
>happy christmass
>andy waples

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 12:08:24 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: test message!

     Hi. Please don't respond, i'm just trying to figure out a problem with 
     my system.
     Thanks for not responding.
     Cheers
     Dave

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 12:08:57 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Off road techniques, Part 1 

     Some helpful rules of thumb to help get you through the holiday 
     off-roading season:
     
     1. If you do choose to go off-roading, try to do it on a Holiday, such 
     as Christmas Eve, when no one else will be out. This way you will have 
     the whole track to yourself. There will be no "danger" of seeing other 
     humans in your wilderness venue of choice.
     
     2. The colder the better. A great time to go out is when its dark, and 
     cold. Remember, we want to be completely alone.
     
     3. Make absolutely certain that at least one major system of the 
     vehicle is on its last legs. A good one would be the clutch. Don't 
     worry, its a Land-Rover. It doesn't need a clutch. This will heighten 
     the sense of real adventure.
     
     4. When driving off road, there is no point in following existing 
     wheel marks. These routes are simply for the unenlightened. Choose the 
     road less traveled, and you are sure to find excitement and adventure.
     
     5. When using a Hi-lift Jack to recover your vehicle from a muddy, 
     wet, snow and ice-filled rut, be sure to get it up good and high, so 
     that when the vehicle comes down off the jack it makes a nice big 
     splash. This way everyone will know when they see you that you were 
     really doing some cool stuff. Also, if you are driving a Series III or 
     later vehicle, make sure the handle of the jack is properly 
     positioned, so that it can easily penetrate the grill when you knock 
     it over. This will allow the vehicle to "breathe".
     
     6. If this recovery method does not work, its time to start walking. 
     No problem if you can't lock the car, since no one will be out there 
     anyway. But just to be sure, leave some money in plain sight so that 
     any sticky fingered types will take that instead of your valuable tubs 
     of gear oil, spares, and other important things. The Hi-lift jack has 
     already been proven worthless so they can have that. 
     
     7. At this point, try some psychic channeling to get someone to come 
     out onto the trail and rescue you and your vehicle. If you really 
     concentrate, someone you haven't seen since high school will soon 
     appear in a large V8 powered American 4x4, suitably equipped to 
     extract your vehicle. At this point it is advisable to go into great 
     detail regarding the many virtues of American Trucks.
     
     8. After being pulled out of the aforementioned bog, make sure that 
     your clutch (or other major component) is getting continually worse. 
     This will allow you to continue in "adventure mode" until you reach 
     home. If you have chosen clutch, than make sure you stall at least 
     once in front of oncoming traffic. For the real adventurous types, try 
     stopping in front of cars that are aimed for the gas tank.
     
     9. After you are home and safe, a good idea would be to check the 
     level of hydraulic fluid in your clutch reservoir, especially if you 
     bought the vehicle used and haven't had the cap off yet. Don't be 
     alarmed by an extremely low level, you can simply bleed it and be on 
     your way again. But before doing that, practice grinding the various 
     gears for a while and you will soon begin to appreciate the beautiful 
     sounds that can be made with this little known "instrument"
      
     10. Try and get your Dad to help you work on the vehicle, as this will 
     help to build his understanding of the do-it-yourself ethic that LRO's 
     hold so dearly. If this is lost on him and he says things like "well 
     if it didn't break all the time...", then buy him a bottle of Scotch 
     and change the subject...
     
     Happy Motoring!
     Dave "Not Sorry About Anything" Bobeck
     72 SerIII SWB, soon to have late IIa grill...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 13:31:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Salesmen

On 24 Dec 1995, AMEDEO (Denver, CO) wrote:

> Whatever you guys do in your jobs you must make great profits because you
> are able to afford these expensive machines. So don't gives us any crap
> about making a profit when selling you these toys. " People who live in glass
> houses should not throw stones" and that goes for you lawyers, doctors, and
> miscellaneous high priced consultants.

    	I work for the Federal government of Canada.  I would note that we are 
	not in the habit of making a profit...   Not a lawyer, doctor or 
	miscellaneous high priced consultant either, thus the 1964 109 sw
	and its eight friends kicking about.  

	Why throw stones?  I'll make a nice trebuchet here and fill with a 
	nice surplus & dead 2.25l lump of iron.  Where do you want it lobbed?
	(Hey, if those Brits can make one that will send a Mini a couple
	hundred yards...)  Ahh, tea time.  Well, I can supply petrol or 
	diesel, so one lump or two he asks politely...

	You should realise by now that it is easier to attract flies with
	honey, rather than with vinegar...

	Rgds,

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 13:33:59 EST
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:Off-road techniques

Dave,
Thanks for all of the helpful tips! As a new owner of a Hi-Lift jack, and 
not having the chance to use it yet, I had absolutely no idea that "big 
splashes" were a part of proper jacking techniques! For that matter as the 
owner of a "newer" LR, I thought I was just supposed to bolt the jack to 
the vehicle to look cool? After all we ARE talking LR's here, do they 
really get stuck?

One thing I do to heighten my off-road "adventures" is try to choose a 
track that is very remote, muddy and deep! I make sure, as you do, that 
I'm totally alone, and there are no trees around so the Superwinch is 
useless, (spooling out the cable is a pain anyhow). Besides, I only 
installed the winch to look cool as I drive thru the mall parking lots!

P.S I find wearing sneakers heightens the "off-road experience", 
especially in the snow!

Ha!
Good wheelin' to ya!

Barnett
"Proud to drive my 95 D90, (even off-road),"
Childress 

  

 

------------------------------

From: Johnny Hansen <Johnny_Hansen@dk-online.dk>
Subject: New Website
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 19:20:26 +0100 (CET)

Hi all

Danish Land Rover Club now has a homepage at following adress:

http://www.dk-online.dk/users/hanse_jo/index.htm

Have a nice new year

Love
Johnny Hansen - Copenhagen - Denmark
1982 Series III 109" Diesel
(No name yet, but I'm open for proposals)

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Santa good to me/What's up?
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:33:11 -0800

>From: 	barnett 
childress[SMTP:barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com]
Congratulations on all your new toys. I hope you have the opportunity to use 
them in the near future!
>P.S. In regards to the bulk of the postings on the list lately:

I find the exchange of Series LR "helpful hints" interesting, even if I own 
a Discovery. If for no other reason than to be thankful everything on the 
Disco is still in running order. (20 yrs from now, things may be different 
and I'll be exchanging Disco "helpful hints", who knows!)

Since LR's are not nearly as common as other marques in the US (though the 
parking garage here at work would make that hard to prove. The Disco count 
in my building alone is up to 5 now!) I think the biggest advantage of the 
list is to allow LRO's an easy and convenient forum to exchange product 
experiences (good and bad), dealer experiences (good and bad) as well as 
aftermarket parts vendor experiences. Without the e-mail list, this 
infomation would be much more difficult for me to come by.

I think the latest (semi-annual) Series v. LR/RR debate has been tabled. I 
think all of us LRO's appreciate the vehicle's capabilities and heritage 
regardless of date of manufacture and most of the "debate" amounts to merely 
friendly ribbing. 

------------------------------

Date: 27 Dec 95 14:48:06 EST
From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: Whatever happened to the Christmas spirit?

     Good Grief! I don't believe it, coming back to the office after 4 days 
     away and I see everyone is yelling at each other! Come on, it doesn't 
     matter which kind of Land Rover you have, we bought them because 
     something about the vehicle makes us love them to death. 
     
     Perhaps the passion we have for our own vehicles is expressing itself 
     in defensive/aggressive flames to each other on their respective 
     merits.  
     
     Without the Series there would never be a current Land Rover. Without 
     the current Land Rover there would not (at least in the USA) be as 
     much strong an interest in the marque. What would life be like without 
     both of them?     
     
     Thanks
     Chris Browne
     Brit in Boston
     95 Disco (happy memories of sleeping in the back of moving series 3s 
     while in the army, never tried to sleep in the disco because I usually 
     drive)!
     
        
     

------------------------------

From: Mark.Maslar@software.rockwell.com (Maslar, Mark)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 16:42:16 -0500
Subject: RE: LRNA's disdain

Tom Rowe wrote:
>Anyway, if there's that much dislike for the series models, I wonder
>why they talk about the LR heritage in the sales brochures, with a
>photo of series model?

That's called marketing. LRNA is using the LR heritage to create a 
particular image -- of quality, time-proven design, ruggedness etc. And this 
is an accurate image -- they're not doing anything wrong. By creating the 
image they're not saying that their service/parts department is equipped to 
handle these older vehicles. It would be naive to expect that of *any* 
vehicle manufacturer, but they should at least be polite to series owners.

Mark Maslar

'95 Defender90  Yellow  #2319

P.S. I've had several Jeep Wranglers wave to me (and I wave back), but have 
never had a Range Rover wave at me. I think the waving Jeep drivers 
recognize that the D90 is superior to their vehicle (or maybe they think 
it's a giant jeep?). I've talked to two Range Rover drivers and asked them 
if they've off-roaded. Both seemed to have the attitude "No, I wouldn't do 
that to my vehicle." Not everyone buys a LR for its off roading 
capabilities, and that's OK. But it seems that off-roaders are a bit more 
into the marquee.

------------------------------

Date: 27 Dec 1995 14:39:32 U
From: "- Vince Bobba" <vincebobba@sun2.neurondata.com>
Subject: CD Player for 95 Disco

                      Subject:                              Time:  2:28 PM
  OFFICE MEMO         CD Player for 95 Disco                Date:  12/27/95

According to LRNA the CD player offered (as an accessory) in the 95 Discovery
 is a unit manufactured by Pioneer . I've seen it as low as $595 from some of
the more aggressive mail order houses, but am wondering if anyone knows the
specific model and if there is a less pricey way to add this capability. The
Disco is already wired for this particular model, with what appears (to me)
to be an oddball connector. Has anyone been down this path? Any ideas on
stereo mods would be welcome!
Thanks, 
Vince Bobba
Mountain View, CA  

------------------------------

From: Mike Dryfoos <mikedr@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: LRNA disdain
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 15:07:28 -0800

At the Seattle dealership, they have always been amused, not appalled, to 
see me drive up in my Series IIA.  I drove it down there for the party they 
threw for the Range Rover 4.0 introduction, and they sent out their 
videographer to take its picture.  I had to show the kid doing the valet 
parking how to double-clutch...

I don't imagine their shop would know how to fix the SIIA if something were 
broken, but they did tell me they have the microfiche parts lists for the 
Series vehicles.

|From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
|>From: 	Tom Rowe[SMTP:TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU]
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
|>front of a dealer's showroom? I'm tempted ;-)
|Be sure to wear your flak jacket!

------------------------------

From: Treit Le <Treit_Le@apprise.com>
Date: 27 Dec 95 18:34:12 
Subject: Errata

Re:  jpappa01@interserv.com.....The engine choices for all new Land Rover NAS 
vehicles for the 1996 MY are as 
follows:....Range Rover Classic: 3.9L V8 182 HP

Is there really a 1996 NAS Classic??? The 12/95 LRO was not specific as to the 
model year of the 25th Anniversary model. Seems somewhat late in the year to 
announce a '95. The Jeep dealer near me has a sign announcing that the '97 
Wrangler will be in the showroom soon.

BTW to the person in upstate NY, regarding the choice between a Land Rover 
product and a GM product. You probably got a lot of comments on off-road 
performance. But in other matters....LR products are more likely to hold up to 
wear and tear and remain plush. Or maybe their owner's just care more. You will 
definitely want to be near a dealer for service with either. The parts and 
ownership costs of a LR are higher. My pet peeve is the $125US front mud flaps. 
With the exception of the 4.6RR, LR's are pretty sluggish and have minimal rear 
passenger room. With my normal position of having the seat all the way back, it 
feels snug front and rear.

Triet Le
'95 Classic

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 18:30:58 -0600
From: macleme@whin.net
Subject: Rodent in '93 County

I own a '93 Range Rover County (SWB) which I drive in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and 
is still under warranty. About 2 weeks ago, after a particularly brutal 
snowstorm, I noticed that the fan began to make a loud vibrating noise every 
time I turned the heat on. In addition, insulation began to blow out of the 
passenger side airduct/defrost vent. I described this over the telephone to my 
local Land Rover specialist and he immediately said "you've got a critter" 
inside your vehicle. I took the vehicle in today for repairs and, without 
examining the vehicle in any great detail, the repairman claimed that he was 
sure that a rodent was responsible for my situation. He claims this has happened 
to several other Range Rover owners in the area. Furthermore, I was also told 
that this is not a scenario covered under my warranty and that it entails over 
10 hours of labor at $60.00 an hour (apparently the engine needs to be removed). 
Has anybody heard of this happening and if so, can this be prevented (aside from 
setting mousetraps, I wasn't even aware that I had mice in my garage).

Thanks,
Mark Clemence
macleme@whin.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 19:52:43 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Frame welding

I'm ready to cut off the rear frame crossmember on my 88.  (The new 
galvanized crossmember w/extensions has been waiting patiently for over two 
years now.)  Anyway, the springs are off, the bolts holding the body box are 
all loose, I'm just waiting for a *little* warmer weather - the MIG welder 
doesn't work so good below freezing (it's only 110 volt).

Several questions: To remove the wiring harness, are there Lucar connectors 
somewhere, or do I have to disconnect at each light?  Also, is it better or 
easier to do lap welds or butt welds?  Any other tips from those who have 
done this would be helpful.  The "DIY Guide to Rover Restorations..." isn't 
particularly helpful.  They are working with an absolutely naked frame with 
at least a 100' feet of working room in every direction - obviously not 
"real life."  Cheers
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 17:50:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Rodent in '93 County

On Wed, 27 Dec 1995 macleme@whin.net wrote:

> I own a '93 Range Rover County (SWB) which I drive in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and 
> is still under warranty. About 2 weeks ago, after a particularly brutal 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> Has anybody heard of this happening and if so, can this be prevented (aside from 
> setting mousetraps, I wasn't even aware that I had mice in my garage).

Rats and mice in the heating system?  Man, talk about major design 
flaws!  And removing the engine to get at the duct work and blower?  I'd 
be a little skeptical too.  Sounds like a good opportunity to query the 
LRNA for a second opinion about the feasibility of such a thing happening, 
and why?  

As a series owner, I feel quite superior since such a thing could never
happen (little duct work and hardly any blower) but as a Range Rover 
owner, it makes me apprehensive that it could happen to me.  Life is 
tough.  

Keep us posted on how this works out.

Walt Swain
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover              * 
              * Davis, California       | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 10:19:29 +0800 (WST)
From: TONY YATES  <tonyy@waalpha.wa.BoM.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: Rodent in '93 County

Buy a ferret.  Once a week send it on a foray into the heating system.

Cheaper and easier than removing the engine. ;-)

Cheers.

====================================================================
                                      _____________________
                                     /_____________________\
Tony Yates                          |                       |
                                    |                       |
Port Hedland                     _  | _________ _ _________ |  _
Western Australia               |-| |[_________] [_________]| |-|
                                |_|  -----------------------  |_|
                                   \|  \ =============== /  |/
A.Yates@bom.gov.au                   =======================
                                    |o  _ |===========| _  o| 
Opinions expressed                 /|  (_)|===========|(_)  |\
here are almost but                ||o____|===========|____o||
not quite entirely                 ||_______________________||
unlike those of the                \[_______________________]/
Bureau of Meteorology.              |\|/|---\_/---------|\|/|
                                    |\|/|               |\|/|
'85 110 V8 (Pamela)                 -----               -----
=====================================================================
                    

------------------------------

From: Softy90@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 22:39:25 -0500
Subject: Re:  Disco pricing redux and yuppies...

someone wrote:
>I asked my source inside LRNA why a stripped Disco isn't offered...one with 
>crank up windows, manual everything, no anti-lock brakes, etc.  The reply 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>*perfect* for this market.  Vinyl seats, hose-out interior, manual 
>everything. 

I tend to agree with the LRNA "luxury" concept here.  I recently tried sell a
Mercedes 300D for a friend in Southern California.  The MBZ was a strippo, no
A/C, no power nuthin'...and that was the reponse I got from advertising
it...nuthin'.  Noone wanted a Benzo without at least A/C.  Granted the used
sport ute market might be different from used luxo market, but it seems to me
that people still will choose the more optioned-out car in the used market
where the differences in price get smaller and smaller.  

This brings out another point regarding the  "yuppie" thang.  If Rovers where
only sold to "enthusiasts" then none of us would be driving 'em.  Just as in
the super car craze in the '60s, many enthusiasts were the recipient of a
"subsidizing" effect  of these wonderful machines.  "Subsidized" by the many
buyers who had only the money, and nothing else, to buy the vehicles.  No
real understanding of proper gearing, high compression, or high lift/longer
duration cams, complained about hard starting in cold weather (muscle cars),
or 11 inches of suspension travel, ladder frames, and  locking center diffs
(off road vehicles). 

Sometimes it is hard for me to accept this, being an enthusiast.  I want
everyone who owns one to be committed to learning.  Somehow I think the more
people that become interested, the more these vehicles will be around.    I
understand the operational consequences of living with a unique specialized
vehicle.  The mechanics-- I'm able to repair what breaks, I enjoy talking
about modifications with other owners, and I am interested in the heritage of
these vehicles--heck, that's why I read this list.  But, on the other hand, I
am a "subsidizer" too.  I didn't know anything about Land Rovers before I
bought this D90.  I had an old bronco, but never took it off road, I just
loved the body style, and being able to repair and modify the thing myself,
(I have always been a hot rodder).  I definately was not an off-roader at
all.  I still might not be...don't really have plans to regularily go to
outtings etc... though  I have scratched up both sides of this $30,000 truck
 driving off road, will continue do so if the oppourtunity arises, and I
 drive it through all the snow I can find.  And, regarding the numbers, I
really have no business spending this much on a vehicle considering my
income.  The only way I can rationalize it is because I AM  an  enthusiast.
To me, so far, it is worth the sacrifices  I must make to drive one of these
and experience a synergistic union of engineering, man, and machine...even if
I never truly test any of the three.    

I am grateful for all those who who buy LR Products (even if they don't
wave), so that they are as within reach as they are to people of my means.

John.
1994 D90 softop in Wisconsin
...haven't decided on "softy" or "rusty" yet...

  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 23:49:35 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Sandy replies

AMEDEO 102505.3511@compuserve.com wrote:

>-engines: 95 Disco with 4.0 and 4.6 liter engines...

Sorry, I meant *96* not '95.  Typo.

>I am somewhat disappointed about some inaccuricies in your message: 
mark-ups of 15-16% on Discoveries?

I stand by that statement: it came from a source *inside* LRNA at Lanham.  
It also approximates the figures in Edmunds.
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 23:54:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Cappings and Galvanizing

In regards to recent postings about treatments for the galvanizing......

Eastwood (USA) and others make a cold zinc galvanizing compound.......comes
in quarts and spray cans.......get the non spray type.    Very durable stuff.
  Use a foam type brush.....as opposed to a bristle type brush.   'Dab' it
on......sorta splotchy.   Do this twice.   Looks decent,  keeps rust a bay
for quite awhile and doesn't have the 'shiny silver paint effect'.   Dabbing
it on actually sorta duplicates the natural 'splotchiness' of the original
galvanizing.

This, of course,  is not meant to be as good as actual dipping....but it's
about the second best alternative.    Cheers.

Cordially:
Rick Crider
Monroe NC
66  SIIa  109"           ......and for sale.......
73  SIII    88"
88  Range Rover

------------------------------

From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:57:30 -0500
Subject: ROAV's Sun Visors......

Well I received my new external sun visor from the ROAV, via Sandy Grice.
  They really are a work of art.   I do not have a 'genuine' old one to
compare it to but I hardly see how an original could possibly be any better.

The visor itself is very heavy aluminum plate, straight as an arrow,
beautiful breaks and bends.  Nicely ground edges.  Nicely machine punched
bolt holes.   The brackets are plenty sturdy and have *real* galvanizing.
  The aluminum visor is almost too pretty to paint.

Haven't installed it yet.   Actually haven't even painted it yet.   Doesn't
look to be any problem at all though.

For the record,  I'm not associated with ROAV (other than a dues paying
member) or with Sandy Grice.......actually have not even met any of the
group.   Just a very satisfied customer.

Cordially:
Rick Crider  KD4FXA
Monroe  NC
66  SIIa 109"          .......and for sale...$8650.........
73  SIII   88"     ........couldn't be bought........
88  Range Rover........the daily mule........

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 22:03:05 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Sandy replies

I was lead to believe that the '96 NAS Discoveries only had 4.0 liter
engines.  The Range Rover 4.6 HSE was the only Land Rover with a 4.6 liter
engine.  No?

Cheers!
John

At 23:49 27.12.95 -0500, Alexander P. Grice wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>AMEDEO 102505.3511@compuserve.com wrote:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)]
>      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
>      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

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