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Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 00:39:24 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Disco pricing redux

On Tue, 26 Dec 1995, Alexander P. Grice wrote:

Heavily snipped

manual trannys and most *don't* want it.  The local dealer has sold 40 
Discos this year, only one of which has been a manual...and I'm trying to 
deal on the other...a black one.

more snipping 

> I asked my source inside LRNA why a stripped Disco isn't offered...one with 
> crank up windows, manual everything, no anti-lock brakes, etc.  The reply 
> (probably quoted out of some manual) is that the buying public didn't want 
> these...the public wanted the luxury.

Sandy, I suspect that in the rarified atmosphere of what passes for
reality at LRNA, the low percentage of 5 speeds they sell reinforces the
idea that only luxury sells.  The fact that the rest of the vehicle is
loaded with gadgets is likely a non-factor in their thinking.  A stripped
vehicle with a diesel engine and (gasp) roll up windows would be perceived
as undermining the cachet of luxury.  As long as the plushmobiles are
selling reasonably well, I don't believe you'll see real utility vehicles
sold in North America.  Hope I'm wrong. 

Walt Swain
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover              * 
              * Davis, California       | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

From: Lee Zeltzer <lzeltzer@isdnet.com>
Subject: 1995  D90 SW is a plushmobile!
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 07:16:36 -0700

I convinced myself to do it. I picked up the Defender SW in Scottsdale =
this weekend. After  a jaunt through lower Phoenix I rolled down the =
super slab to Tucson. No earplugs needed.

The dual mode air conditioning is great; little levers under the =
windshield, during the day when it's warm out here in Arizona, it blows =
warm air, a night, it blows cold air; the blowing seems to stop at =
traffic lights. Its amazing, can't wait for a our mild summers. You can =
tell it's plush because it has two cup holders in a console with a =
stereo that you can hear!

Off road it's a Landrover, this weekend while others practiced pagan =
rites at Christmas trees the rover and I explored river beds, no water, =
just sand; this is the dry season.
Next, snow in the White Mountains of central AZ.

As was predicated by a some comments to my earlier posting my wife has =
immediately offered me the Discovery she drives for this D90; no deal.

Hope you all have a great holiday season.

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 26 Dec 95  9:51:22 EST
Subject: Tutorial: Windshield Washers on an old Series vehicle...Why? Why

I know what you're thinking - Richer's lost it this time. Why would you want to 
put windshield squirters on a LAND-ROVER, for Heaven's sake?

Actually, there's a lot of reasons to invest the 25 bucks and an hour or so of 
work. Keeping the windshield clean can be damn near impossible in northern 
climes because of the salt spray and crud thrown up by other cars, and that 
translates to less-than-safe visibility. Mud from other vehcles when 
off-roading has the same effect, so it's not just the citified types who have 
this problem. Also, if you do it with the part I recommend, you buy yourself a 
radiator pressure tank too, and can convert your system to catch and return 
coolant and cut down on the environmental mess your Rover makes, little as it 
may be.

But, on to the task...

First things first, make a junkyard run. The prize we want is the windshield 
washer tank and radiator overflow bottle from a mid-80s Toyota. The tank I used 
was out of an 85 Celica, and came complete with the pump built in. From what I 
could see, that same tank was used in all models of the Toyota line for at 
least 10 years and probably more. You also want to scavenge the washer nozzles 
and the rubber tubing from the donor vehicle, and get the power connector to 
the pump so you can do a tidy job of the installation. 

I paid $20 for the tank I got, but I think that was high. Negotiate - you can 
probably do better. 

On the way home from the junkyard, stop off at the auto-parts store and buy a 
suitable pushutton for the dashboard - should be about $5. Also pick up about 3 
feet of tubing of the same size as the overflow tube on your Rover. We'll use 
this to replace the overflow tube from your radiator, plumbing it to the tank. 
Don't just reuse the original from your car - if it's like the one I had, it'll 
break when you take it out of the clips down the side of the radiator.

Once you get it home, clean it up before you install it. I had to brush 10 
years of old coolant crud out of the overflow tank and its tubing, so it's 
worth it to was it before you install it.

Now come the fun bits. To install it and the nozzle (I used only one - second 
one will go in when the temperature warms up this summer), first bolt the tank 
to the driver's side inside wing next to the radiator. By a happy coincidence, 
my Rover had holes already available that fit the tank mounts perfectly - no 
drilling. I blieve these holes are already there on most older IIa vehicles - 
check and see.. Run two wires up to the dashboard area - one for ground and one 
for +12 volts. Bring these into the panel area, and tap the wiper power 
connections for power for the unit, putting the pushbutton in line to control 
it. I would recommend using green for the +12 and black for the round to 
observe the Rover color code for the wipers.

Mark the schematics for your car (and you really should have them) with the 
changes you've made.

NOTE: If you use the part I did, the pump is polarity sensitive. This means 
that if you confuse the + and - lines, the pump will spin quickly and will not 
spray. If this happens, reverse the leads at the pump connector.

The nozzle goes into a notched cutout in the bonnet. I placed mine an inch back 
from the steel brace on the underside of the bonnet at the back edge and 
centered on the driver's window. The opening was not a simple hole, so you'll 
need to waste the metal out with a drill then file to shape. It sounds worse 
than it was - it only took me about 10 minutes to do so.

TIP: Bring a piece of paper with you to the scrap yard. Trace the outline of 
the hole you remove the nozzle from, and then transfer the shape to the bonnet 
of your vehicle where you want it with a piece of carbon paper, machinist's 
bluing or whatever you find handy. Saves a lot of work figuring out what goes 
where.....

Once this is done, hook up the hose from the pump to the nozzle and fasten it 
down using wire ties. Leave the loop at the bonnet long so it doesn't foul when 
the bonnet is put straight up.

The overflow tank hookup is straightforward. Remove the old tube from the 
radiator overflow and replace it with the new tubing, routing it behind the 
tank and around to the inlet stub on the tank's cap. Fill the bottle about 2/3 
full with coolant, and top it up after the Rover fills its lines.

It's a quick and simple task, and well worth the few dollars it takes to do. 
Enjoy! -ajr

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 10:45:22 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: New and Old Rovers

Dear All,
        Returned to work this morning to read the lists from the last few
days. Seems like quite a line being drawn between the Series people and the
rest. True you most likely will not get a warm reception at your new Rover
dealer if you pull in with a Series Rover, but those people exist to make
money. You and I, Series owner or Disco owner, exist to have fun with our
Rovers. You can't put our values in the mouth of a saleman who is doing his
job. You would not get a warm reception at a Buick dealer either if you
pulled in with a 1965 LeSabre. We arrived at a Rover dealership in our car
carrier once with a Series IIA 109 on the back. Now that rig, truck and
Rover combined cost me well over 45,000, but the saleman looked at the 109
as if we should be hauling it to the dump, not to the shop for work, and
looked at us like we didn't have two nickels to rub together, so I
understand your anger, but I don't think it is a Rover problem. It is a
dealership, just need to make a buck problem, Rover, Ford, Jaguar, all
makes.
        Not to defend the saleman, but if you were a fan of a 1957 Chevy
Bel-Air Conv., and went to ask for parts or tech. advise from your local
Chevy dealer, they would laugh in your face. Nowhere in the job description
does it say that you have to know trucks to sell them. I went and looked at
new Ford F-350's the other day to replace our car carrier, and the saleman
knew nothing about the vehicles, not even what the mileage was on the Turbo
diesel models. You would think that would be a FAQ.
        So although 9 times out of 10 I agree that saleman should know
their product better, and be more helpful to all, I don't think it is going
to happen in a business as large as LRNA. They are, and have to be, in it
to make a profit. Rovers are our hobby, and their job. I don't think we'll
ever change that. We should be glad that the company is actually as cool as
it really is, supporting off road adventures, off road schools, and even
some rallies, etc. etc.
        So let, as another emailer said,...the people who need to prove
their status, and to prove to their girlfreinds that they are *real men*,
drive and pamper their never off road D90's and Disco's, and few years down
the line we'll all have clean low mileage models to pick from for our
expeditions into the world of Rovers that they will never know.

Mike Smith, ECR

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 26 Dec 95 11:28:44 EST
Subject: Re: New and Old Rovers

Re: Animosity and "party lines":

No animosity here, just like to get the facts straight. 

Re: older vehicle parts and service support:

>        Not to defend the saleman, but if you were a fan of a 1957 Chevy
>Bel-Air Conv., and went to ask for parts or tech. advise from your local
>Chevy dealer, they would laugh in your face.

Gotta argue with you on this one, Mike. GM and many of the other car 
manufacturers maintain parts availability for the "classics" as they're known.  
I can walk into any Chevy dealership on the planet and either get or order many 
parts for older vehicles. Been there, done it. 

Can't do that with Japanese or most other foreign lines, though Rover and their 
public disdain for their older product annoys me on a personal level. 

Also, Jag and other "expensive" car lines do so for their older vehicles. Look 
at Lotus (not the one I work for, the car company). They still make and sell  
parts for their older vehicles and support replica manufacturers (such as 
Caterham). 

    aj" Not a yuppie - never was..."r

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 13:06:51 -0400
From: jim@kidd.com (jnk)
Subject: Series II engine rebuild

My father and I are in the midst of rebuilding a 1960 SII engine. This
weekend while getting ready to replace the main bearings we noticed that
the retainer clip thing was on the opposite side. After flip flopping the
part and wondering where we went wrong we noticed in a catalog that the SII
used different main bearings. Is there anything else we should know before
continuing with the rebuild. We are currently on hold awaiting new
bearings.

Jim Karantinos
(Tallahassee, Fl)

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Range Rover Coil Wire
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 10:09:05 -0800

I was under the hood of my Disco the other day and noticed the same thing. I 
put piece of that plastic wire loom material aroud it. You'd think that in 
the 6 yrs between your 89 and my 95 they'd have come up with a better 
arrangement. Then again, there's that Lucas heritage to consider. :-)

Happy holidays to all!

----------
From: 	KKelly6788@aol.com[SMTP:KKelly6788@aol.com]

I noticed that the coil wire of my '89 Range Rover with a 3.9L V8 was 
rubbing
against the heat shield behind the alternator.  I put a piece of rubber over
the wire to stop the wear.  I mentioned this to a Land Rover mechanic and he
said it was a common problem.  I hope everyone has a great Christmas.

    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 12:16:44 GMT -0600
Subject: LRNA's disdain

Interesting, the thread on showroom disdain for Series vehicles. Gee, 
wonder what would happen if I parked my topless camo lightweight in 
front of a dealer's showroom? I'm tempted ;-)

Anyway, if there's that much dislike for the series models, I wonder 
why they talk about the LR heritage in the sales brochures, with a
photo of series model?

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Why Buy a RR 4.0 SE
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 10:50:08 -0800

>From: 	A  D. Cobb[SMTP:71643.2453@compuserve.com]

>Hello All,
<snip>
>	I have a couple of friends who think I should get a Chevy Tahoe or GMC
>Yukon. No question they are cheaper than the RR, however I'm looking for 
the
>best 4WD, not the cheapest. I live in  the middle of heavy snow country ( 
snow
>belt of upstate NY... 50" so far in December ) so I am interested in winter
>performance/traction.
I would think that in New York, the "traction control" and ABS brakes in 
addition to the superior off-road capabilities and interior appointments of 
the RR would be hard for a GM enthusiast to counter. I don't think GM offers 
anything like that (a limited slip rear-end isn't anywhere near 4-wheel 
traction control). If you are pulling trailers and/or like the power of the 
'burban, you might want to look at the 4.6 HSE.  
>	Can you nice folks give me some ammo to toss at my pals as to why the RR
>is the best ?
Good luck with your new vehicle.
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Disco pricing redux
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 10:42:08 -0800

>From: 	rover@pinn.net[SMTP:rover@pinn.net]
<snip>
>-The beluga black paint is the hardest to keep looking good (that's why 
it's 
>clear coated).  However, it is the easiest to touch up.
  That's good to know! :-)

>I dunno.  If you could get it past EPA, I think a stripper 300 TDi would be 

>*perfect* for this market.  Vinyl seats, hose-out interior, manual 
>everything.  I'm sure that a fleet version of the Disco is offered in the 
>UK.  Could anyone across the pond enlighten us as to the difference between 

>the top of the line and bottom end prices?
I'd trade my "plushmobile" in on one in a second! Then I could go and 
(ab)use it with a much lighter burden on my concience (i.e. wallet). Maybe 
that's what will be offered next year in place of the D90 in the NA market. 
They could capitalize on the Camel Trophy image! Even offer CT Yellow/Orange 
as a color.  I bet they could sell as many of them as they did D90 SW's. 
(Yea, I know. Fat chance! It does go seriously against the 'refined' LR 
owner image held by LRNA, but I can dream, can't I?)

    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: LRNA's disdain
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 10:56:02 -0800

>From: 	Tom Rowe[SMTP:TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU]
>Interesting, the thread on showroom disdain for Series vehicles. Gee, 
>wonder what would happen if I parked my topless camo lightweight in 
>front of a dealer's showroom? I'm tempted ;-)
Be sure to wear your flak jacket!

------------------------------

Subject: snow-plough and PTFE
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 14:01:38 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@OpenMarket.com>

Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au> writes about:
	snow-plough and PTFE

Yes Lloyd, you got the combination absolutely totally correct the best
place on a Land-Rover for PTFE is on the surface of the snow-plow so that
the snow doesn't get hung up on and pack onto the surface of the plow.

Cheers,
	-Bill

------------------------------

Date: 26 Dec 95 14:00:45 EST
From: "AMEDEO (Denver, CO)" <102505.3511@compuserve.com>
Subject: Salesmen

 To the Series people, let's make peace! Even Israel and the PLO did it!
O.K. next time a Series person comes in I'll treat him like he owns the place.
Seriously, I agree we can learn from each other. Just understand 
that a modern LR dealership is there to push the current product lines. But why
can't you accept that these so called plushmobiles are still
real Land-Rovers, made in Soulihull? Also, don't play so poor: when you add the
cost of your antiques plus parts plus repairs (time you spend times your wage
rate) they don't cost much less than a spanking new Discovery per mile. BTW
sincere thanks to Larry Smith and Alan Richer for their comments. 

To Jim Pappas: have some more backbone. Salesmen can be professionals too.
Let's defend our profession. And my name is not "the other guy". I am even
a Gold Grenadier like you, look in the list. Friends?

To Sandy Grice: after the newly found respect I wanted to give to Series
people I am somewhat disappointed about some inaccuracies in your message:
mark-ups of 15-16% on Discoveries? More like 10-12% and that does not make
any provisions for overhead. This is gross profit. We get no rebates like most
other automobile dealers   -engines: 95 Disco with 4.0 and 4.6 liter
engines????? 95 has 3.9, 96 has 4.0!

Sales plug: we have another Defender 110, with winch and 50k miles. And sorry,
it is about 39K asking price. The last one we had (with 20k miles) sold for 46K.
It's not my fault.

Amedeo

87RR
 

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 14:08:37 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Salesmen

 Amedeo writes:
Snip
> Also, don't play so poor: when you add the
> cost of your antiques plus parts plus repairs (time you spend times your wage
> rate) they don't cost much less than a spanking new Discovery per 
mile.
Snip

Well, that's not exactly an accurate figure. I work 40 hrs per week 
and am not allowed overtime and I don't take time off to work on my LR.
So it's not accurate to figure my repairs x my hourly rate (which is 
much less than a garage charges anyway) because I couldn't be earning 
that elsewhere. Also, I enjoy tinkering with my LR, it's a kind of 
hobby and most of the times I find it a rather relaxing mindless 
activity. Zen auto repair?

I paid $3,600 for my Lightweight and even adding the cost of a 
rebuilt engine (which it's needed for 4 years) I haven't spent 
anywhere near the cost of a new LR per mile. THe total is less than $10,000, 
way less than $15,000 even if you count labor at my present rate (which 
is higher now than it was when I've done most of my repairs). PLUS, 
I can fix anything that goes wrong with my Series LR. There's things 
I probably wouldn't attempt on a new one, unless it were a diesel.

Having said all that, I'd probably buy a D110 if they were available 
and I could afford one (I'd like to offer a bit more comfort to my 
wife and son) But I'll have to settle for restoring my '67 109.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Salesmen
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 12:51:05 -0800

I have to confess that after reading your first posting, I was seriously 
tempted to fling another "salesman bashing" e-mail onto the heap, since it 
did sound a bit on the arrogant side. 
(e.g. "Whatever you guys do in your jobs you must make great profits because 
you are able to afford these expensive machines. So don't gives us any crap 
about making a profit when selling you these toys. People who live in glass 
houses should not throw stones" and that goes for you lawyers, doctors, and 
miscellaneous high priced consultants." I guess I fall in to the 
"miscellaneous high priced consultant" category and I don't consider this a 
very friendly way to address your market segment.)
However, as is too easy to do in the e-mail, I suspect your original posting 
did not accurately represent your views. 

Unfortunately for you, "Car Salesman" has become equated with 
"Bad/Pushy/obnoxious/un-informed/(pick-your-own-derrogatory-adjective) 
salesman" in the minds of many. In my experience, I've met more LR 
salespeople who are interested and knowledgable about the product  than any 
other single automotive brand. (Of course I've met many who are clueless 
order-takers as well). If you are the former case, then you are truely a 
professional and there's nothing to be ashamed or defensive about. Likewise, 
those "car-salesman" bashing comments that fly through here occasionally 
aren't directed to you but the other, clueless, ones.

Now that you've been baptized by "flame" I'd like to extend my welcome to 
another dealer/salesman to the list. As other's have already said, I'd like 
to see more dealer (and LRNA ?!) participation in the e-mail alias. Granted 
there's alot of "noise" at times (which gives the list it's personality) I 
think there's a lot to be gained in terms of knowing the customer by keeping 
an ear to the e-mail. What retailer wouldn't give big $$$ to know what's on 
thier market's mind in real-time, when here you can have it for free! At the 
same time, the occasional "plug" or "news brief" isn't bad, IMHO (In My 
Humble Opinion), I don't want this to turn into an on-line want-ads. 

Lastly, don't take this stuff too personally. We're all just here to have  a 
good time, in (or under) our Rovers, of course! :-) <-- Smiley face, turned 
sideways.
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 18:30:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "Francis J. Twarog" <ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: Nice to be back

Well, I've been away from my computer for a few weeks, so I just caught 
up on the "talk-around-town".  Regarding the 90 SW - truly a beautiful 
vehicle with a lot more attention to fit and finish.  I think it is a bit 
more comfortable (at least in the cold) because of the cloth seats and 
probably nicer to drive on the highway, but definitely has one drawback 
(aside from the obvious lack of use a convertible) - you can't hose it 
out!  Just this morning I put three bales of hay in the back of my dad's 
and discovered how nice it is (and easy) to alleviate the "barn" smell 
with a bucket of water and a broom (I can't imagine how expensive our 
"detailing" bills would be down at the Scrub-a-Dub with that truck!).  
Anyway, as I've said before if any readers are feeling the need to 
express their philanthropic side, I'd take mine in Arles blue.

On the topic of the roof rack for US Defender 90s, I propose a plan - 
every Defender owner that is leaning toward purchasing one (if you 
haven't seen the picture yet, it is just like the 110's in appearance but 
is structurally designed to deliver the weight down through 6 connecting 
points - 4 on the roll cage above the driver/passenger door, one which 
runs down to the frame on the passenger rear (almost looks like it would 
attach to the top-right bracket of the swinging tire carrier) and the 
last connecting point is the rear ladder itself which is naturally on the 
driver's side) - anyway, I suggest that a group discount might be applied 
if several owners wanted to buy them all at once (I'm sure that they'll 
be above a grand) through a dealership. (MetroWest LR in MA gives a 
pretty generous discount to Bay State club members)... anyway, it looks 
really nice and will fit any US spec 90.

The first casualties in the Bosnian peace-keeping mission were reported 
on NPR the other day - two British soldiers received minor injuries after 
their Land Rover travelled over a land mine.  Ouch.

I think the last trivia posting that I did had to do with the 107" in 
regards to its chassis color - the early models had their frames painted 
blue.  Today's trivia is not for those of you who have trouble 
remembering dates, but logical guesses are of course, welcome... What 
years were the Tickford Series I station wagons produced?  What was the 
first year that the Range Rover came available with an automatic? A five 
speed?

Frank Twarog
Burlington, Vt

------------------------------

Date: 26 Dec 95 19:38:17 EST
From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: Copy of: Half shafts

---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:	William L. Leacock, 75473,3572
TO:	lro, Internet:owner-lro@uk.stratus.com
DATE:	12/19/95 9:51 PM

RE:	Copy of: Half shafts

The cone shaped failure on a genuine parts half shaft is the shape of a classic
fatigue failure
 Regardless of how you drive you will break  one eventually,normal accel and
decell stresses the shaft and when the magic number is reached then snap.
 The half shaft dia was decided in the forties for a car with a small engine and
low weight. the ser 2 and later vehicles are just too powerful and heavy for the
shaft dia to carry the load.  Eventually they fitted the salisbury.
 There are some half shafts available with 24 splines at the diff end available
from the likes of Ian Ashcroft, this necessitates changing the planet gears in
the diff. the smaler splines have a larger pitch dia than the ten spline
standard which changes the torque capacity of the shaft.

 Regards Bill Leacock   Limey in exile.

------------------------------

From: JEPurnell@aol.com
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 20:29:19 -0500
Subject: Re:  Disco pricing redux and yuppies...

>I asked my source inside LRNA why a stripped Disco isn't offered...one with 
>crank up windows, manual everything, no anti-lock brakes, etc.  The reply 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>*perfect* for this market.  Vinyl seats, hose-out interior, manual 
>everything. 

I tend to agree with the luxury concept here.  I recently tried sell a
Mercedes 300D for a friend in Southern California.  The MBZ was a strippo, no
A/C, no power nuthin'...and that was the reponse I got from advertising
it...nuthin'.  Noone wanted a Benzo without at least A/C.  Granted the used
sport ute market might be different from used luxo market, but it seems to me
that people still will choose the more optioned-out car in the used market
where the differences in price get smaller and smaller.  

This brings out another point regarding the  "yuppie" thang.  If Rovers where
only sold to "enthusiasts" then none of us would be driving 'em.  Just as in
the super car craze in the '60s, many enthusiasts were the recipient of a
"subsidizing" effect  of these wonderful machines.  "Subsidized" by the many
buyers who had only the money, and nothing else, to buy the vehicles.  No
real understanding of proper gearing, high compression, or high lift/longer
duration cams, complained about hard starting in cold weather (muscle cars),
or 11 inches of suspension travel, ladder frames, and  locking center diffs
(off road vehicles). 

Sometimes it is hard for me to accept this, being an enthusiast.  I want
everyone who owns one to be committed to learning.  Somehow I think the more
people that become interested, the more these vehicles will be around.    I
understand the operational consequences of living with a unique specialized
vehicle.  The mechanics, I'm able to repair what breaks, I enjoy talking
about modifications with other owners, and I am interested in the heritage of
these vehicles--heck, that's why I read this list.  But, on the other hand, I
am a "subsidizer" too.  I didn't know anything about Land Rovers before I
bought this D90.  I had an old bronco, but never took it off road, I just
loved the body style, and being able to repair and modify the thing myself,
(I have always been a hot rodder).  I definately was not an off-roader at
all.  I still might not be...don't really have plans to regularily go to
outtings etc... though  I have scratched up both sides of this $30,000 truck
 driving off road, will continue do so if the oppourtunity arises, and I
 drive it through all the snow I can find.  And, regarding the numbers, I
really have no business spending this much on a vehicle considering my
income.  The only way I can rationalize it is because I AM  an  enthusiast.
To me, so far, it is worth the sacrifices to drive one of these.  

I am grateful for all those who who buy LR Products (even if they don't
wave), so that they are as within reach as they are to people of my means.

John.
1994 D90 softop in Wisconsin

  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 22:43:57 -0400
From: bcw6@cornell.edu (Braman Wing)
Subject: Tires for sale! (also need tire advice)

Hello, hope everyone had a good christmas. I certainly did - I got 4 new
16" rims for my IIA. I was wondering if anyone could reccommend a good tire
to mount - I tend to drive in heavy snow a lot, but I need something that I
can still drive on the highway without too much trouble. Also, as a
consequence, I have 4 15" X 10" white 8-spokes with nearly new Goodyear
Tracker tires that I no longer need, so if somebody wants to make an
offer... Thanks, and happy new year!

                                                                Braman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 20:21:32 -0500
From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice)
Subject: Re: LRNA's disdain

Tom Rowe sez....

>Interesting, the thread on showroom disdain for Series vehicles. Gee, 
>wonder what would happen if I parked my topless camo lightweight in 
>front of a dealer's showroom? I'm tempted ;-)
-

Go ahead and do it! I drive right by the local Land Rover dealership every
day and stop from time to time to drool over the new toys. I park my '65
(complete with dents and faded paint) right in front of the showroom, right
by the sign that says "NO PARKING". I figure that if anyone says anything
I'll just tell them to show mine to the customers so they can see how much
the breed has "improved" in 30 years..  :)

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

From: jpappa01@interserv.com
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 20:37:27 -0800
Subject: Re: 	Errata

The engine choices for all new Land Rover NAS vehicles for the 1996 MY are as 
follows:

Defender 90 (1995 MY): 3.9L V8 182 HP 

Range Rover Classic: 3.9L V8 182 HP

Range Rover 4.0SE: 4.0L V8 190 HP

Range Rover 4.6 HSE: 4.6L V8 225 HP

Discovery: 4.0L V8 182 HP (torque bumped up one #/ft to 233 but develops at 
100 rpm lower than last year's 3.9L. 

The 4.0/4.6 V8 are OBD2 engines and is the principal reason that there is no 
D90 for 1996. 

Cheerz
Jim - The desert tan Hummer in my town now has a picture of a guy with a screw 
going through him!!

`67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid
`67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid
`68 2B 110 F/C diesel
`70 P6B 3500S
`90 Range Rover County
`93 D110 (#457/500)
`95 D90 #1958

------------------------------

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