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From: "Seymour, Gareth" <GSeymour@mp.sihe.ac.uk>
Subject: S.F.O.
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 08:58:00 PST

Hello San Francisco,

I will be in San Francisco betwwen the 29th. Dec and 2nd. Jan. I will be 
staying at the Grant Plaza in China town and will be limited to public 
transport (which I am getting to know rather well after 5 trips). If there 
is are any subscribers who want to meet for a drink sometime let me know, 
pass on your telephone number for me to get in touch whilst there. I will 
not have email access after 5.00pm on the 21st Dec. (uk time). so any 
replies asap.

Hoping for a nice long chat about rovers,

Gareth 

------------------------------

Date: 19 Dec 95 05:01:03 EST
From: <Glen_Rees@parlon2.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: Land Rovers in movies

     Land Rovers in movies (or bits of)
     
     Check out Crocodile Dundee 2, Mick's holiday home on cliff edge. Nice 
     series 1 windscreen with wiper, as window.
     
     Cheers for now, Happy holiday's
     
     Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 02:06:43 +0000
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: S.F.O.

 Seymour, Gareth <GSeymour@mp.sihe.ac.uk> writes:
>Hello San Francisco,
>I will be in San Francisco betwwen the 29th. Dec and 2nd. Jan. I will be 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>replies asap.
>Hoping for a nice long chat about rovers,

 Gareth,

 I've taken the liberty to post your message to the Left Coast Rover List.
 It has many more candidates for your inquiry, some of which have turned
 off the UK <lro@team.net> list.

 Holiday Cheers!!

 Michael Carradine, Architect                          Ph/Fax 510-988-0900
 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA    <cs@crl.com>
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 22:28:25 +1100 (EST)
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: diff locks, maxi drive

there's a little diff-lock info at

   http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/Axles/index.html

maxi-drives are hard to track down, but I'm told that they're still
making and selling them. They are supposed to tough enough to stand
figures of eight on tarmac (what is heresay worth).

McNamara might now be doing a unit operated from the cab as well
as his nice and simple nut-and-spanner job.

Lloyd

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 8:16:28 EST
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:Lockers,Man/Auto,Ft/Rr

There's been some discussion on lockers lately. Here's my two cents for 
what it's worth. I hope this helps.

I put a lot of research into lockers before I decided to go with ARB air 
lockers in both front & rear diff's, here's why.

Manual v.s. Auto lockers.

Auto lockers like Detroit, Truetrac, or LSD's Etc. have more moving parts 
inside, clutches, cones, plates Etc. Some need special lubricants, and 
most need more servicing. They lock/unlock depending on wheel speed in 
turns. This locking/unlocking can be sudden at times and can make the 
vehicle unstable in turns especially on road. If you get caught in a 
really tight section of trail I have seen people with auto lockers have a 
hell of a time. The lockers don't always unlock under these conditions and 
maneuvering is difficult. 

With a Manual locker YOU are in control. It's your option when to 
lock/unlock. The ARB can be locked on the fly, and it only takes a 
fraction of a second. I usually lock mine before attempting extremely 
difficult terrain. By locking before you get in trouble you minimize the 
risk of axle breakage due to spinning a wheel and then having it suddenly 
regain traction. Another great thing about the ARB is that when unlocked 
your back to having a regular totally open diff. No special lubricants and 
no surprises on the road.

Front v.s. rear installation?

Everyone I have talked to recommends a locker in both diff's. Of course 
they sell lockers! But seriously, this gives you true 4WD. Install the 
rear first if that's all you can afford. Most of the time the rear of the 
vehicle has the most weight/traction anyhow. You might find this is all 
you will ever need. The front locker is great if your climbing some really 
STEEP loose rocky terrain, where you can't use momentum, or rock crawling 
where your constantly lifting tires. Steering is harder, but not 
unmanageable, and I unlock my front diff as soon as it's no longer needed. 
Again the ARB is excellent for this.

The only draw back to the ARB is the cost. But if your planning on keeping 
your Rover, and you feel the need for lockers, than I think there 
definitely worth the cost. Consider it part of your investment in your LR. 
You can always do the rear first, see how far that gets you, and install 
the front later as finances permit.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Barnett Childress

95 D90
Superwinch Husky 8/HD bumper
OME HD suspension
ARB Air lockers
    

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Vacuum Gauges
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 08:17:00 EST

Fred Ellsworth writes "does the vaccuum line from
the gauge splice into the dist. vaccuum advance line or the brake booster
vaccuum line?"

The gauge should be connected to the manifold directly and a tee in the 
brake booster line will provide this connection. The vacuum advance line is 
connected to a small drilling in the carburettor close to the throttle 
butterfly and it is covered by the throttle when it is closed so would give 
an incorrect vacuum reading when at idle. use a small bore tube and also 
snub the flow by restricting the tube with a wire clip or similar. Unless 
this is done each piston will make the gauge  move as it sucks , it won't be 
possible to read it and it will wear out fast. As a general rule for tuning 
and economy aim for the setting that results in the highest vacuum reading.

Trevor Easton.

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 05:33:01 -0800
Subject: Poor Old Stage One

Darryl (and Ben), I hear you.

As far as I'm concerned, the Stage One is a Series vehicle.  Actually, I think 
its the best of both worlds.  V8 power and full time 4x4 but the ruggedness and 
simplicity of a series vehicle.  Of course, this has nothing to do with the fact 
that I drive one daily ;)
Hey, I learnt to drive in a SII SW, aside from the power differential there's 
not much difference between a SII and a Stage I.
YMMV

Eric

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 07:44:51 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Airlockers, Diffs, Shafts & More

Robert Dennis writes:
Snip
> Having a locked differential, can only help to increase the loads seen by the
> shafts. That is one of the reasons I was thinking of changing to the
Snip

I think it would be the opposite. One of the greatest stresses to a 
half shaft is being situated with one wheel on a slippery spot. As 
you start to move, that wheel gets most of the power from the drive 
train and spins at high speed. Then you get to a good spot of 
friction and it suddenly grips and stops spinning. You have a 
tremendous force going primarily to that wheel which isn't 
dissipating the energy now. SNAP, the energy gets dissipated into a 
broken half shaft.
With a locker used at the right times, the drive train energy gets 
divided evenly between both half shafts.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 07:49:03 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Rovers and Jeeps, the Camel Trophy 

 
> Ben wisely told us:
> > Ignore it and it will go away for another 6 months.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> > never went away.
> > Maybe I need to wait at least a year for it to go away.

Ben retorts:

> 	My experience is that engine noises never truly go away on their
> own.  They get louder and more ominous.  Then one day all of the engine noises 
> go away (sometimes just after a big *boom*).
> > Hmmm tried that with my engine noises,  nope still there 6 months later,
And I add my $.01 worth:
Actually Ben it effectively goes away. As we Series owners slowly go 
deaf, it's as if it really goes away.  ;-)

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 06:03:14 -0800
Subject: Tools In a Stage I

Dixon,
What's the matter with carrying several sets of wrenches in your Rover?  I 
always find the metric set handy when an attractive member of the opposite sex 
breaks down in her rice burner and I happen to pass by.
This is assuming she doesn't dial 911 on the 'cell phone from the sight of the 
beastly thing

Eric

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Trailers
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:29:07 UNDEFINED

>If you're driving a short wheelbase truck, stick with a small trailer. That
>goes for any short wheelbase truck. A friend of mine was hauling a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>point where he couldn't control it and everything wound up on it's side in a
>field. No-one got hurt. A long wheelbase truck wouldn't have had that problem. 

Farmers in teh uk prefer to use 88 (and 90s) for towing big stuff cos 
they are rated to a higher trailer load, and are MORE stable. The hitch is 
much closer to the rear axle, so exerts far less twisting forces to the 
vehicle. The SWB is an much better towing platform than the LWB. Most buy SWB 
lorries specifically BECAUSE of their towing. The LWB carries more in the 
back, but is a farmer wants to carry a load, he chucks it in a trailer and 
pulls it with a SWB........You dont see many LWBs on farms.

Thousands of farmers cant be wrong - they do this stuff every day and for real.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 09:51:26 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Tools In a Stage I

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

Dixon,
What's the matter with carrying several sets of wrenches in your Rover?  I 
always find the metric set handy when an attractive member of the opposite sex 
breaks down in her rice burner and I happen to pass by.
This is assuming she doesn't dial 911 on the 'cell phone from the sight of the 
beastly thing

Eric

I don't get it. First you're carrying several wenches in the car, then you're 
stopping to help some lovely make rice? Obviously this guy's driving a 
Dormobile. 
Wait... uh excuse me? Wrenches?... Uh, never mind.

Dave "Not on Furlough" Bobeck
Washington DC
Our Nation's Capitol/Tourist's Nightmare

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 17:00 GMT-0200
From: wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal)
Subject: Vacuum gauge, whitworth spanners

Fred & all

Connect the vacuum gauge to manifold vacuum. There might be a check valve
between your manifold and the brake booster. Split the pipe between the
manifold and valve. Or drill a hole in the manifold, tap it and stick a
fitting of some type in there. 

The vacuum advance vacuum is normally (I don't know LR in particular yet, so
YVMV) ported vacuum. This is tapped from the side of the carburetor, there's
a little hole in the carb body near the butterfly. When the carb is totally
closed the hole is on the "wrong" side of the butterfly, i.e. the air filter
side = atmospheric. At slight throttle there's a big increase in vacuum,
giving lots of advance for torque at pull-away. Less advance at more open
throttle & light loads. The centrifugal advance is responsible for lighting
the fuel earlier (time-wise) as revs increase.

Anyway, that's how the cars I've played with work. Not important. Tie the
meter to the manifold.

Which brings me to a question - having grown up in a totally metric country,
I havn't the faintest what the diffs are between whitworth, BA, BSF,
imperial and all the other funnies are. I've noticed that whitworth is
totally different from normal imperial (whatever it's really called). So,
somebody please enlighten me. Maybe this is a job for MIKE ROOTH! Yes! He
who said "Long live Whit,BSF,UNF and UNC." :-)

Thanks

Wouter

--
Wouter de Waal ZS1KE  GE>AT d-(pu) s+:-- a- C++$ UL+ U*+$ P>++ L++ E- W N+++>++
Argo 505 / FT200      !o K w(--) !O !M V(--) PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP>++ t 5? X? R?
                      tv>--- b+++ DI+ D+ G e+++(*) h--- r+++ y+++(*)

'72 Puma - 1700 FI Type IV engine                          Perseverance my son,
'6? Series IIA SW - factory fitted Lucas immobiliser         it's a   Land/
                                                                       /Rover
"All journeys end when we reach our destination but the journeying
remains a thing apart, unique unto itself. Most of us make life's journeys
without understanding that the journeying is a separate thing." -- Bob Hoover

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:07:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re:the nuts and bolts of stage 1's

On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Daryl Webb wrote:

> Dang right there is Whit. on the thing (all Real Landrovers have Whit
> bolts(g), along with BA, BSF, SAE imperial, Metric, assorted metric and SAE
> allen bolts, plain, inverted, phillips and posidrive screwheads. Havent found
> a torx yet, but its bound to be there somewhere....   You want an excuse to
> buy *lots* of tools? (and still never have the right one)  Get a stage 1! 

	Hmmmm...  Impressive... :-)  Are you not missing BSP?  For the torx,
	I'm sure if you get any goodies via Generous Motors that they will
	come with that elusive screwhead.  Mount the coke machine bottle
	opener to the dash with a pair of torx screws.  That will keep it
	safe from other jealous SIII owners that have yet to shred their
	headliners in search of a place to open a cold one...

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Trailers
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 15:06:34 GMT

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)]
> pulls it with a SWB........You dont see many LWBs on farms.
> Thousands of farmers cant be wrong - they do this stuff every day and for real.
No farmer is *ever* wrong.Its always the soil,the seeds,the government,
the heat,the rain............

Cheers(Or not..)
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:11:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Rovers and Jeeps, the Camel Trophy 

On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote:

> 	Got me there.  I can't open it on the dash.  But now that removed the
> silly piece the hides the windscreen to hardtop bolts, I've discovered that
> those very same bolts are a perfect for removing caps from beer bottles. 
> So now I don't need to bend over to open my beer, eh. 

	Then you hit a bump and get beer all over the roof.  Sounds like 
	you then need the genuine extra-absorbant-headliner kit from RN
	to soak up all of this *wasted* beverage.  Nope, never been impressed
	with the Series III, but Daryl is showing that under the ownership
	of a visionary that a stage one may be acceptable.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:18:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: WWW Aftermarket Parts (Was: Shocks & springs for Series)

On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Michael Carradine wrote:

>  Now Dixon, of all the people surely YOU would remember to insert "OVLR"
>  into the Web address above....  the correct OVLR FAQ WWW URL is:
>  http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/FAQ.top.html

	It was late... :-)  Besides, it just sits in the OVLR directory, it
	isn't the OVLR FAQ.  Glad to see you have the correct URL for it.
	Makes it easy for people to point to the current version... :-)

>  PS-- What are the odds of having the annoying background GIF image toned
>  down or eliminated??  (I thought so! %-)

	Doesn't show on this workstation, in fact comes up either grey
	or a mottled white on all of the machines in the Canadian
	Forestry Service (my latest home).  Have only seen it with
	the intended background once on a workstation in the Mining
	Sector of the department of Natural Resources.

	Rgds,

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:38:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Range Rover Climate Control

>>Enlighten me, oh sage list, in the mysteries of the Range Rover climate
control system.

Well Scott, I think I was the one who started the FOG MACHINE thread.  Last
summer, Annabelle (my '89 RR), would cloud over at the slightest hint of
humidity.  Having to roll up the windows in a summer downpour would mean
INSTANT fog, and turning on the defogger would just create micro-weather
systems around the interior (light showers in the back seat, gusty winds up
front, small funnel clouds in the way back, etc.).  Lullubelle (my '70 IIa
88) didn't have that problem, but then it didn't have anything to fog
(stripped at the waist).

I did a quick fix by strapping the recirc flap open with a cable tie (it
defaults closed when the solenoid goes), but last fall I decided to to a
complete fix when the fan came loose from the motor spindle.

To put it in a nutshell, getting at the whole heater schlemeel is  rather
straight forward.  I did the same as you, trying to figure it out ahead of
time with the manual, but there is very little info there.  Just start
unscrewing things, but give yourself a break on the re-fit and organize the
screws & parts as you disassemble (bits from this part of the dash in that
bucket, parts from that bit of the dash in this bucket).

I stripped mine down to the last step, disconnecting the heater box from the
water supply, but if you really want to do a complete job, pull the heater
box out of the truck and clean, rebuild, and seal it on the bench.  I spent
as much time as the removal would have taken, fiddling with things on the
floor on my back.  Don't forget to check the recirc valve solenoid & vacumn
switch while your under there (on the side by the drivers knee).  It seems to
be one part that fails on a lot of RR's.  Also check the fan bearings & such.
 You don't want to do this twice.

Let me know if you have any other questions.  I'll walk you through it if you
need. - Tony

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 07:44:23 -0800
From: russ burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Trailers

I towed a 25 Ft camping trailer out to Colorado last summer with the D-90
I was amazed a at how stable the D-90 is pulling a trailer at 70 MPH.
The trailer is 25 ft and weighs 3500 lbs.

I also towed home a small tractor (5000+ lbs) with  the Range Rover.
That trip was quite interesting as on of the rear bushing had let lose
giving me rear steering abilities.... needless to say 55 to 60 MPH was
the limit.

I do find that the short wheelbase is quite sensitive to steering
input, and changing lanes can be very quick and exciting when ones
wife is driving.....

Russ Burns
91 Range Rover
94 D-90
Russ Burns
cisco/Ford
313-317-0451

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Whit
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 15:45:43 GMT

Oy Wouter!Dont blame me!I just *use* 'em.I didnt *invent*
the things:-)

Whit,(BSW,or British Standard Whitworth),BSF(British Standard
Fine),and BA (British Association),are all Imperial.
The numbers denote the diameter of the bolt itself.So 1/4"Whit
is a 1/4" dia bolt,Whitworth threaded.The number of threads
to the inch can be found in any good engineering book.Whit is
the coarse one,BSF,as its name implies is the fine version.Both
have thw Whitworth thread shape,which,if memory serves is a 55deg
flank angle,with sharp crest and root to the thread.Embarassingly,
although I've *used* a lot of BA stuff,and I seem to remember it
actually is a metric thread,I dont know much about it.
More later.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:46:13 -0600
From: Robert Kolander <kolanrj@gw.startribune.com>
Subject:  RE: Disco Pricing

Edmunds web site has a lot of useful info as far as dealer prices,
wholesale, and retail, for both base price and options....
They don't know what the dealer holdback is for Landy's, but
obviously is one (and not a paultry sum, I'm sure). 
Here's the address:
http://www.enews.com:80/magazines/edmunds/

They also have some pretty entertaining "methods" on how to deal w/a
dealer. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:52:59 -0600
From: Robert Kolander <kolanrj@gw.startribune.com>
Subject:  WANTED: DEFENDER 90

I'm searching for a used 94-95 (prefer 95) Defender 90. 
The fewer the options the better, and, of course, I'm looking for the
one that "only grandma drove, once  a week, to the corner store..."
(yeah, right).

My price range is the low to mid $20's, and I'm a serious buyer. I've
gotten one lead already, but it was a little too rich for my blood.
Please email me with any information or leads. Thanks!

kolan001@maroon.tc.umn.edu

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:04:01 -0500
Subject: Front receiver

You wrote "Where does a front receiver on a Disco attach on the vessel? Where
do 
I go to get one mounted? Do air bag considerations affect this?"

It mounts over the bumper attachments to the frame.  Seems like it would be
very strong.  Since the reciever doesn't clear the bumper, the crush cans on
the bumper would still work in a slow crash and the airbags shouldn't be
affected at higher speeds.

Rovers North sell the receivers.  You can mount it yourself but a second
person would make it easier.

Since I don't carry the winch mounted while on the road, I don't really worry
about the aribags not working.  When I'n on the trail and have the winch on,
the only thing I worry about hitting are slow Series owners.....JUST
KIDDING!!!!  ;-)

Merry Christmas to all!  May all of your Land Rover Dreams come true!

Gerry "Phx high: 72" Elam

------------------------------

From: DEBROWN@pabvmsys.SRP.GOV
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 09:08:34 MST
Subject: Rancho shocks with 1-tonne shackles??

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Rancho shocks with 1-tonne shackles??
Could anyone help me with a part number for Rancho shocks that will fit a
IIa 88 that has military 1-tonne shackles (approx 1.5"-2" lift)? I'd like to
get the 4 for $99 deal but need to get the number that will work.

While we're on the subject, are the Bilstein shocks as good as the OME (Old
Man Emu) shocks? I can get the Bilstein's for $49 each, anyone know of a
better deal? These will be for the '87 Range over "plushmobile". I'll also
need part numbers for these as well, and (to throw another wrench.. er...
spanner into the works) I also plan to install springs that will raise the
RR about 1.5" to 2".

Thanks a BUNCH!!!

#=======#          ________           We make a living by what we get,
|__|__|__\___     /__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
| _|  |   |_ |}   \_/-\_|__/-\_|}
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:15:14 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: lockers

Dear all,
        In reading a email on lockers recently I find a few flaws in the
logic. The original email from Eric Z. is correct. General knowledge
usually dictates that people put lockers in the rear, due to cost, ease of
installation, and lack of steering parts. But, the ARB style lockers are
very well suited for use in the front end. Yes it is hard to steer (that is
the point of having a locker up there, full lock, full traction), but the
locker would only be used in stuck situations. The locker is a tool for
certain situations and you have to know when, and when not to use it. On
road the locker would not be used, and the only problem you could have is
if you left the hubs engaged, then accidently hit the switch, but even that
would not do anything if the transfer case was in 2WD. Steering torque from
front engagement would not be noticable, beacuse the front drive shaft
would have no geared power to it at the time. You'd know it happened, but
it would not throw you around.
        Sliding or lurching sidways is directly related to gravity. The
locker units themselves, engaging, have no part in making the vehicle
slide, unless (god forbid) you have engaged the unit while spinning!. It
would be a steep incline combined with tire spin that would cause any
sideways movement. I have never had any sideways movement when engaging a
locker.
        The best combination that we use off road is an ARB type full
control locker in the front, and either a full ARB type, or gear type posi
in the rear. This system works well in our Rovers off road. It is costly,
but worth the investment to get you through.

Mike Smith, ECR

------------------------------

From: "Gerald" <g@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:24:06 -0500
Subject: Washing a Disco

What special things do I need to look out for in washing road crud
and salt off a Disco? I guess there are some spots underneath I need
to pay attention to.

Saw five Discos this morning, snow forecast seems to bring them out, 
but no wavers.

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

From: Mike Fredette~ <mfredett@sedona.intel.com>
Subject: Trying to incite a riot
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:26:14 +22305823 (MST)

 On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote:
 
 	Well now that Mike Fredette is back on the list, is it time for
 the biannual Defender vs. Series debate between Mike and Dixon?  (And whoever
 gets suck in)  That always proves to be amusing to read.  No matter what 
 happens Rover folks seem to like to debate/poke fun at just about anything.  
 Ignore it and it will go away for another 6 months.
 	Yo, Series III swine...  Before you set Mike and I up for round
 	three, where do you open your beer on the dash?
 
 	Rgds,
 
 	(of course,  Russell Burns et al, probaly have found dozens on 
	 places on the D90 by now... :-))

	Oh no you don't. I'm not falling for that bait again. Dixon and
I buried that old hatchet a long time ago, rather boring and pointless
to dig it up again.Besides, it is that holiday time of year and all that.
And worst of all, I can't risk getting Terriann mad at me again. So I'll
let someone else carry on the legacy, pointless and silly as it is.

Rgds
Mike Fredette
d90 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:43:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Haslam <haslam@alcor.concordia.ca>
Subject: 88 RR Radio Wire Colours

I have the radio out of the RR and would like to check whether it works, 
etc. Connecting it to 12 volts is a problem: the wire colours on the radio
don't correspond to those on the vehicle schematics.

Unfortunately, the temperature is -15C or so, so I'm not about to do a "look
see" in the vehicle.

Can anyone tell me the correspondence between vehicle and radio wire
colours?

...chris haslam

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:42:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Tools In a Stage I

On Tue, 19 Dec 1995 ericz@cloud9.net wrote:

> What's the matter with carrying several sets of wrenches in your Rover?  I 
> always find the metric set handy when an attractive member of the opposite 
> sex  breaks down in her rice burner and I happen to pass by.

	Chances are that she would know the difference between metric & 
	imperial anyway, and with the way that rice burners are built,
	it doesn't matter anyway... :-)

> This is assuming she doesn't dial 911 on the 'cell phone from the sight 
> of the beastly thing

	That only happens when you are carrying a small set of wrenches...

------------------------------

From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: consoles, wading, and D90SW
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 11:39:49 MST

I installed a Tuffy Deluxe Stereo Console (10" wide - the "Jeep" model)
in my D90 last weekend.  Everything went pretty smoothly once I decided
how I was going to mount it and located all the proper fasteners.  It
requires at least 1.125" of spacing under it to clear obstacles.  Some
drilling was necessary.  The unit is tough-as-hell and looks so good
you'd think it was standard equipment.  No, I take that back; it looks
_MUCH_BETTER_ than the standard cubby and has about twice as much space.

Regarding wading:  the spec for NAS D90's is 20", presumably because of
the computer.  But, if you can keep that dry, the next weakest link is
the differential breathers at about 32" (if I recall correctly).  Of
course, ingesting water into your diffs won't stop you dead but will
mandate a fluid change ASAP.  The engine air intake is at 41".  Not sure
where the bottom of the fan sits.  I've been in 30" of water w/o any
problems.

During one memorable deep stream crossing I dropped my D90's front
wheels into a narrow but even deeper "ditch", causing the entire nose of
the vehicle to momentarily drop below waterline.  The only problem was
that the bonnet scooped up several gallons of water which was then
promptly deposited inside the cab via the open vents...

From: slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade)

    I noticed that the rear jump-seats had little stickers that said
    NAS.  Does that stand for North American Spec.?  They didn't look
    any different from the NAS D110 rear seats, or for that matter any
    of the rear seats I'd seen in D90's in LRO.  Curious.  One thing
    about the seats tho, they were in grey tweed all around, not that
    vinyl stuff as on the soft tops.

Saw my first D90SW yesterday; I really liked it.  I had expected it to
look cheap & plasticy based on other comments I've read here, but I did
not find it too much so.  I especially liked the jumpseats.  I wonder
how difficult it would be to put a set in a standard D90?  I've heard
that the roll cage interferes, but the only piece that the standard cage
has that is missing on the SW (that could potentially interfere) is the
angled brace that extends rearward from the front hoop.  This may hit
the seat backs, requiring you to mount them slightly "inboard".  What
does a set of those seats cost?

I also love the sliding rear side windows.  Does anybody know if these
will "drop into" the fiberglass (FRP) hardtop?  There is very little
ventilation in the back with the FRP top, and sliding windows would help
a lot!

Ok, if the truth be known, I also liked the full doors with roll-up
windows and the full rear door with wiper & defroster, and I didn't find
the sun roof too offensive either.  But that carpet...

My local LR dealer said they got eight (!)  D90SW's, and that they were
all sold.

--
Jeffrey J. Gauvin		email: jeff.gauvin@symbios.com
Symbios Logic Inc.		Voice: 719-573-3563
1635 Aeroplaza Dr.		FAX: 719-573-3824
Colorado Springs, CO 80916

------------------------------

From: MACLEME@whin.net
Subject: Fwd: '96 County Classic
Date: 12/19/95 12:57

I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin in the U.S. and am leasing a '93 County SWB 
through August of '96. I was hoping to replace the vehicle at that time with a 
'96 County Classic, however, my dealer informs me that production of the '96 
County Classic is on hold indefinitely due to the overwhelming response to the 
4.0 and 4.6. A decision is apparently due soon. Does anybody have any further 
details?

Thanks,
Mark Clemence
macleme@whin.net

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Airlockers, Diffs, Shafts & More 
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:13:43 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Tom Rowe wrote:
  

  I think it would be the opposite. One of the greatest stresses to a 
  half shaft is being situated with one wheel on a slippery spot. As 
  you start to move, that wheel gets most of the power from the drive 
  train and spins at high speed. Then you get to a good spot of 
  friction and it suddenly grips and stops spinning. You have a 
  tremendous force going primarily to that wheel which isn't 
  dissipating the energy now. SNAP, the energy gets dissipated into a 
  broken half shaft.

	I agree with you in theory, but the interesting thing is that in
3 of the 4 half shafts that I've broken, 2 were in a parking lot at low speed
and one was pulling away from a stop sign.  My best guess is that they
were stressed off road and the crack took a few days to get to the point
of actually breaking the half shaft.  (For those that are counting, I don't
recall where I was when the 4th half shaft broke, but I know that it wasn't
while I was off roading.)

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Trying to incite a riot
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 11:38:08 PST

You blokes north of the border depress me, what is this crap about
opening bottles ect... Teeth are the only way. 
Besides I thought the resoning behind landrovers were the ability
to carry KEGS anywhere...

Russ
> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 33 lines)]
> Rgds
> Mike Fredette
> d90 

------------------------------

From: howtaw@hg.uleth.ca
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:40:14 MST
Subject: Steering Wobble

Fred Ellsworth says:
>I'm starting to get a slight wobble in the steering wheel at certain speeds
which makes me think an alignment is in order.<

	It could be as simple as a wheel balance or an alignment.  However,
I would jack up the front of the Rover first and check for movement in the 
wheel bearings and the steering knuckle.  This could save you some money which
you can use to fix the real problem.  Lastly I would not put on a steering
damper or new shocks until all other likly repaires are explored.  If the wobble
gets really bad when you hit a pot hole I would say it is the steering knuckle
bushings(on top) or the steering knuckle bearings(on bottom).  Do you have
locking hubs?  Make sure that you engage them once a week or so inorder that
the knuckle bushings get some oil on them.

Andrew Howton

I've owned/own several.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:01:25 -0800
From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool)
Subject: Salisbury for 88+lockers and shafts

I sent this reply directly to Rob Dennis yesterday (should have posted to
the list):

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
No personal experience but will offer what I've learned about this issue.
Certainly the Salisbury diff has significant advantages.  Aside from cost,
one disadvantage is that it takes special tools (case spreader) to
intsall/remove one (like a lot of American axles).  I see another netter
mentioned weight, etc.

A less-expensive alternative (unless you have a really cheap source of the
Salisbury unit and for the required fabrication), that keeps your Rover-type
axle housing and ring and pinion, is a differential strengthening kit from
McNamara in Oz.  It gives you a four-pinion carrier and allows the use of
the 24-spline Salisbury shafts.  You can take it a small step further and
add a simple, almost free-wheeling-hub-like mechanical locker while still
keeping that price within reason.  Next step beyond that is to go with the
McNamara vacuum-operated locker.  I seem to recall that that one will set
you back some $1,200 but even that might be less than Salisbury+ARB.

You can read about McNamara's offerings on the web.  I think you can link
from one of Lloyd Allison's pages, either the AWD/4WD magazine page or his
Rover page.  Contact info, from Rover page (as of Dec '94) is:

>    25 Levanswell Rd., Moorabbin, Vic 3189, Australia, 
>    tel: 61-3-555-2213, fax: 61-3-555-0251 

Also had this about Maxi-Drive diffs:

>    The following details are from a 1988 ad' and may be out of date.) 
>        Mal Story, Key Four Wheel Drive, Lot 9, Gilston Road, 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>            Vacuum operated diff lock with warning light. 
>            Available for Salisbury 8HA and `Rover type' diffs, front and
rear, 
>            Land-Rover and Range Rover. 

I met a fellow at the Portland meet that has the Maxi-Drives in his 109, his
name is Franklin (last name I forget at the moment).  Article about him and
his Rover (by Jim Allen) in August '94 issue of LRW.  If you want to talk to
Franklin, I have his phone no. somewhere and can look it up.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I should have added to the above, to clarify, that both the Maxi-Drives and
McNamaras (except the cheapy one) are driver-controlled from within the cab.
Inasmuch as these and ARBs are all Aussie products and no other
driver-controlled aftermarket lockers seem to be available, I gotta wonder
how it came to pass that Oz cornered this market.  Smarter'n the rest o' us?
Check out the above-mentioned article on Franklin's LR; he devised really
slick controls for the Maxi-Drives.

I also want to comment on the fears expressed by some about having lockers
and limited-slip diffs in the front.  I had for several [bleak] years a
Scout that had LS (Powrlok) front and rear.  I was always happy with the one
in front; no problems whatever.  Not at all happy with LS in rear as it made
rear slide sideways on any sideslope.  This seemed to be much more of a
detriment to getting places I wanted to go than its traction-enhancement was
an advantage.  I now have LS in the rear of my Dodge Dakota 4x4 and also
have mixed feelings about this, both on and off the road.  Can deliver some
nasty surprises on corners on wet pavement.  Give me driver-controlled
lockers any day.

For years I drove a 1970 Series IIA 88 that had a spooled (totally locked,
as in side gears welded to the diff gears) third-member (can no longer call
it a diff, eh).  I won't pretend that it was easy to drive (extremely tiring
actually).  But if you learn the proper technique, this can be driven
anywhere, including down steep trails.  Not for the faint-at-heart, as you
have to power [a little] through turns no matter that they are downhill!
But it could climb, oh, yes!  Gave me a glimpse of what could be achieved
with driver-controlled lockers (without the disadvantages of my spool) and
made me lust for them ever since I knew that they were available.  Now it's
just a matter of money.  BTW, I kept the spool when I traded off the LR and
have been considering putting it in my current ride (SIII 88=The Snark)
until I can afford Driver-Controlled Lockers.

Cheers,

Granville

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:01:38 -0800
From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool)
Subject: Power Steering in an 88

No one seems to have given a useful response to the question about power
steering in an 88.  Bob Bernard's 88 has a set-up that he did simply and
inexpensively using Saginaw (American) junk-yard parts.  I thought Bob was
on the lro list and am surprised he didn't respond to the question.

Bob can be reached at <BobandSueB@aol.com> and I'm sure will be happy to help.

Granny

Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA
<gpool@pacific.pacific.net> (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work
          In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
                In the midst of his laughter and glee,
            He had softly and suddenly vanished away--
                For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see.
                          --Lewis Carroll

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 21:01:05 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Power Steering in a Series L/R

Wouter from ZA wrote:
>So I'll continue making a nuisance of myself, to whit :
>What is the accepted / best / easiest / cheapest way to fit power steering
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>to a series landy? I'll be doing a chassis-up resto soon, and I'd like the
>SO to be able to drive the beast too.
Wouter - I was really surprised to see that my PC would actually accept 
Power Steering and Series L/R in the same sentence.  However, if I 
understand your question correctly, you want to make it easier for your wife 
? to drive the L/R.  Several comments are on the tip of my keyboard, but I 
will be strong and not let them flow on to your screen.  Therefore, my 
comment will not help much:

If you come to Vienna (which I hope you will, it is a very nice place), you 
might go to the former Imperial Palace and visit the Imperial Apartments. 
There you will be shown the living quarters of our last-but-one empress, who 
was killed by an anarchist with a file in Switzerland, but that is beside 
the point.  In her bedroom she had several gymnastic apparatusses, among 
them rings suspended from a very high doorframe.  Apparently she did 
chin-ups on these, among other things.  Of course we are much more advanced 
nowadays, so you might consider some Nautilus equipment for your wife.  
Power steering!!  I hope she never comes to Vienna to sock me for this...
Just joshing
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:06:44 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: broken shafts

Ben writes:
> 	I agree with you in theory, but the interesting thing is that in
> 3 of the 4 half shafts that I've broken, 2 were in a parking lot at low speed
> and one was pulling away from a stop sign.  My best guess is that they
> were stressed off road and the crack took a few days to get to the point
> of actually breaking the half shaft.  (For those that are counting, I don't

Absolutely, I'm sure. My only break was in my 109 at a stop light. I 
had bad clutch judder at the time, and whamo! the half shaft let go.
One thing no one has mentioned is that it's usually a good idea to 
replace them in pairs. If one broke, no doubt the other got stressed,
too. Save it for an emergency spare I guess.
They don't *all* break in the boonies. Sometimes you're lucky and it 
happens in town.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: 19 Dec 95 13:38:57 EST
From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com>
Subject: re: Lockers

Tom Rowe Writes:

 >> One of the greatest stresses to a half shaft is being situated with one
wheel on a slippery spot. As you start to move, that wheel gets most of the
power from the drive train and spins at high speed. Then you get to a good
spot of  friction and it suddenly grips and stops spinning. You have a 
tremendous force going primarily to that wheel which isn't
 dissipating the energy now. SNAP, the energy gets dissipated into a
 broken half shaft. With a locker used at the right times, the drive train
energy gets divided evenly between both half shafts.<<
 ---- SNIP ----

 Yes this is the easiest way to snap an axle, and a locker would certainly
prevent this from happening. What I was thinking was that typically the
vehicle loads are transferred equally until one wheel begins to slip. With a
locker the load would continue to build on the wheel with good traction and
possibly transferring almost the entire load to just one wheel.
 This is what I was afraid might break the shaft.

 And from Mike Smith:
 >> In reading a email on lockers recently I find a few flaws in the logic.
The original email from Eric Z. is correct. General knowledge usually dictates
that people put lockers in the rear, due to cost, ease of installation, and
lack of steering parts. But, the ARB style lockers are
 very well suited for use in the front end. <<
 ---- SNIP ----

 Are you saying that if you were going to start with one axle or the other,
you would put the front in first? I could understand this based on the weight
distribution of the vehicle, but the situations were I think the locker would
be of most use, would be on very steep, rocky or slippery terrain. I don't
know what the weight distribution of an 88 is, but I think it would be more on
the rear on any hill of about 40 degrees and steeper. Especially with any load
in the rear of the vehicle.

 Once again, thanks for your responses.

     -------------------
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_======_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_%%%%%_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     | %%###%% |     |
   |     | %%###%% |     |      1972 SerIII 88
   |_____|_#%@@@%#_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_________//_\\_________]
     |\/|           |\/|

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 19-Dec-1995

------------------------------

From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:26:03 -0600
Subject: re: RS5000 Sale

All,

I called the Rancho customer service number about the rumored sale on RS5000 
shocks (4/$99). They couldn't give me a answer on the sale status ("um, we're 
just the factory...").  So I called a local Rancho dealer, but they hadn't 
heard of any sale on Rancho products. And certianly not the ~42% off that 4/
$99 represents ($43 each regular).

If someone knows a shop selling the RS5000s at 4/$99 please email me or post 
the phone number of this place - I'd love to be able to get a set...

Thanks,

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW "I hope all that training with Lego was worth something..."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:54:21 -0800
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: Land Rover Web site

Hello, all. There's some sort of site at 
http://www.execpc.com/~adjacent/landroverdemo/. Anyone else see this yet? 
Is it an official LRNA page? I found it just by running a search on the 
new Alta Vista engine (http://altavista.digital.com/). This page only has 
information on the 4.0 SE, though.

-- 

Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 Beluga Black Discovery

------------------------------

From: Simon Barclay <sbar@jna.com.au>
Subject: RE: Rancho shocks with 1-tonne shackles??
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 07:57:00 EST

I'm not sure about OME, but I've been running Bilstein's for years (since 
'82) on my RR's for both on and off road work and generally they are pretty 
good.

They do tend to overheat after 'prolonged use' on corregated roads, of which 
there are an abundance here in OZ.   I have now fitted Polly Air bags and 
will be able to report after the Christmas break as to what difference they 
make as I will be covering the same territory as last year, and the year 
before, and the year before that, and........ (off to the "in Laws" sheep 
property - way out west).  Lets just say I'm familiar with the tracks, and 
they are pretty rough!

I did have a problem with a rear pair about 4 or 5 years ago when they both 
went "soft" at the same time.  Strange noises eminated from them (when in 
use) so I replaced them and haven't had the same problem since.  You can 
also get them rebuilt at a pretty reasonable price.  Mind you, if you are 
only paying $49 new why worry!!!

Simon Barclay
Sydney Australia
'90 5 sp RR
'51 Series 1 (Louie)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:06:35 -0800
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: Land Rover Web site - update and apology

Oh, dear. It seems I stumbled upon a site someone's *developing* for Land 
Rover or developing on spec, hoping LRNA will buy it. If I'd read through 
more of the obviously unfinished pages, I'd have hesitated about posting 
the URL. As someone in the security business, this is particularly 
intriguing to me; usually test pages aren't accessible from outside.

Beautifully designed site, though. I apologize to whomever developed it 
for letting the cat out of the bag.

-- 

Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 22:03:09 -0600 (CST)
From: "Soren Vels Christensen" <velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: Re: Series of questions II

In message Mon, 18 Dec 1995 12:44:37 +0000,
  cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)  writes:

: :2)  I'm starting to get a slight wobble in the steering wheel at certain
: :speeds which makes me think an alignment is in order.  Is this something
: :any old cheapo tire place can do for $29.95 or is there something special
: :about my '71 SIIA 88"  that screams for more money?
:
: After tweaking your alignment, try a new steering dampener.  My wobble at
: 55+ mph on a '72 Series III went away after putting in new Rancho shocks
: and dampener.  Someone said earlier that Rancho is having a sale right
: now,  4 shocks for $99!

I've had the wobbles too. After fitting new track rod and all ends i had to
align. Jack up front, align one wheel with rearwheel (down on all four and
aim) so that they are parallel. Check the other side to see if they are
parallel. If not, - adjust. Experiment with fine adjust by test driving at
about 50-60 mph (wobbles) and sharp turns (easy operation).

Before you spend money on shocks, check the old ones first. If the casing is
not rusted through, take them off and exercise them 30-40 times each. Keep
them vertical and turn them around each 10 strokes. It may sound a bit
ridiculous but with a bit of luck the shocks could become as new for a
while. We did it on my brother's 88 and on-road handling really improved.
Most of the time Landy shocks only move about one inch or so and the rubber
inside seems to seat within that inch.

: :3)  Does anyone know the part number of a good, inexpensive replacement
: for :the steering dampener shock on series vehicles?

Air.

(Well, i don't have a steering damper myself but they seem to cause some
people trouble after a while).

Just a few tips from a poor parking lot mechanic. Use them as you like.

rgds
sv/aurens

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 16:41:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Land Rover Web site - update and apology

On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Christopher Boese wrote:

> Beautifully designed site, though. I apologize to whomever developed it 
> for letting the cat out of the bag.

	Seen the site the other day.  DEC's little search engine has been
	very thorough and busy searching through all sorts of sites looking
	for web pages.  It found the OVLR site a couple months before we were
	ever ready to tell anyone about it.  Until DEC's announcement on 
	Alta Vista a number of us were wondering why DEC was searching the
	net so thoroughly...

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Land Rover Web site - update and apology 
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:44:19 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199512192105.QAA03958@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote:
  
> Oh, dear. It seems I stumbled upon a site someone's *developing* for Land 
> Rover or developing on spec, hoping LRNA will buy it. If I'd read through 
> more of the obviously unfinished pages, I'd have hesitated about posting 
> the URL. As someone in the security business, this is particularly 
> intriguing to me; usually test pages aren't accessible from outside.

	Most people don't remember to put in an .htaccess list on every
single directory.  When I was developing the OVLR pages I first had it on
file so that noone could see it.  Then I had to put it out for Dixon to 
look at.  Because I'm a fascist security type, I was looking at the access
logs on a daily basis and noticed a number of search engines accessing the
pages.  (One was by DEC who recently announced their new web index).  So
if anyone is making a WWW site and doesn't wants to stop random robots
from cataloging your site, make sure that you have .htaccess files in
every accessably directory and convince your sysadmin to give you permission
to review the access logs.

Ben  (And now back to Rover discussions)

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:56:40 GMT -0600
Subject: new web site

Just took a look at the web site an ad agency is proposing to LRNA. 
Eh, ok I guess. Looks like it's done by an ad agency. LRNA would be 
better off getting a LR owner to do it.
Looooong load times for each page. And that's with a direct net 
connection. Although this is the time of day things tend to slow 
down.
Guess I'm still kind of dissapointed that the LR ads, including this 
web site, seem all directed to the rich. Damn that tarrif.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:26:52 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: broken shafts

In message <199512192004.PAA03825@butler.uk.stratus.com> "Tom Rowe" writes:
 
> Ben writes:
; > 	I agree with you in theory, but the interesting thing is that in
> > 3 of the 4 half shafts that I've broken, 2 were in a parking lot at low 
> > speed
; > and one was pulling away from a stop sign.  My best guess is that they
> > were stressed off road and the crack took a few days to get to the point
> > of actually breaking the half shaft.  (For those that are counting, I don't
;
Tom writes:
; Absolutely, I'm sure. My only break was in my 109 at a stop light. I 
> had bad clutch judder at the time, and whamo! the half shaft let go.
;
TeriAnn Continues the thread:
To date I have broke 4 axles in the 109.  The first one was towing a small shed 
up a hill.  One wheel spun over a gopher hole then crack.  That was the short 
axle on the outside flange.  This was the only time I was lucky enough to brake 
an axle at the outside.  About 3 or 4 months later, I was turning out of a 
parking lot and the other axle snapped on the inside splines.  I pulled back 
into the parking lot and parked the car.  A broken tooth had already taken out 
the ring & pinion.  Thats when I learned about replacing both axles if one goes.
The next axle came a couple of years later, pulling out from a stop sign.

The last was exactly the same only a couple years later.  So at this time I'm 
down four axles and 3 diffs.  Each time the break was at the inside splines a 
part got into the ring & pinion before I could stop the car & remove both axles 
& the drive shaft.  Just lucky I guess.

For the last for years I have had these special "unbreakable" rear axles in.  I 
know of one other person who has them installed.  He drives a little more gonzo 
than I but he has the lighter car of the two (his an 88 mine a 109).  Were boh 
waiting to see if the other breaks an axle.  If he loses one, I'm replacing mine
right away.

If I were running stock rear axles, I think I would pull them out & replace them
with new ones every three or four years just because I know the next one will 
take out the diff too & those ring & pinions get expensive.

TeriAnn

twakeman@apple.com

              
                         
                       

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 19 Dec 95  5:12:36 EST
Subject: I need a PCV valve!

To effect a permanent cure on my carb icing yet not be belching crankcase fumes 
into the air I need to snare a PCV valve from someone's junkbox. I don't care 
if the diaphragm's good - I can replace that. The bracket would be a very good 
thing, also...

Or, (and actually my preference), anybody got a part number for a current-usage 
PCV valve that will work properly on a Rover?

     Al Richer

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 19 Dec 95  5:12:47 EST
Subject: Re: Carb Icing & PCV systems?

Bill was spot-on with the PCV call on my icing. I disconnected the valve cover 
breather from my air intake and plugged it and the icing has gone completely 
away. No fuss, no muss....Worked great!

Kudos to Mr W.D.Cockey....

      AJR

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 19:27:20 -0500
Subject: Solihull Phone number needed

Would one of the list members in the UK kindly send me the phone number of LR
Headquarters in Solihull. ( I am just too cheap to pay  4.95 for info thru
the phone co.)     Thanks..Steve  WA2GMC  72 slll 88

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 20:00:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Airlockers, Diffs, Shafts & More

Tom Rowe writes: With a locker used at the right times, the drive train
energy gets 
divided evenly between both half shafts.

Actually, with the differential locked both power and torque are "divided"
according to the  respective traction on each wheel. This is a function of
the rubber/ground interface, and any differences in tire diameters.

With a totally open differential TORQUE is split evenly (in an axle) or
according to the designed ratio in a center diff. Power is speed times
torque, and therefore will be split according to wheel speed. This equal
split of torque is why single wheelspin happens. When the torque exceeds the
traction available to one wheel, it starts to spin and the other tire
continues to have the same torque.

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 18 Dec 95  8:02:10 EST
Subject: Re: Carb Icing & PCV systems?

Bill was spot-on with the PCV call on my icing. I disconnected the valve cover 
breather from my air intake and plugged it and the icing has gone completely 
away. No fuss, no muss....Worked great!

Kudos to Mr W.D.Cockey....

      AJR

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Stage 1 stuff (reprise)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 11:47:06 +1030 (CST)

> > Ben Writes:
> > > 	Well, techically it is the "SIII, Stage I"
> > Series III 109" V8 if you please....  
> 	Ok, ok.  Series III 109" V8 (Stage I).  Happy?  :)

Much better, thank you

-- 

  Daryl

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 18 Dec 95  8:04:44 EST
Subject: I need a PCV valve!

To effect a permanent cure on my carb icing yet not be belching crankcase fumes 
into the air I need to snare a PCV valve from someone's junkbox. I don't care 
if the diaphragm's good - I can replace that. The bracket would be a very good 
thing, also...

Or, (and actually my preference), anybody got a part number for a current-usage 
PCV valve that will work properly on a Rover?

     Al Richer

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Poor Old Stage One
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 11:56:51 +1030 (CST)

Eric confirms our beliefs:
> As far as I'm concerned, the Stage One is a Series vehicle.  Actually, I

think its the best of both worlds.  V8 power and full time 4x4 but the
ruggedness and simplicity of a series vehicle.  Of course, this has nothing
to do with the fact that I drive one daily ;)   
> Hey, I learnt to drive in a SII SW, aside from the power differential
there's  not much difference between a SII and a Stage I.

Not much power difference on mine at the moment either :-(

> YMMV

Nope always the same, dismal...   ~ 20+ L/100km...

-- 

  Daryl

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:28:02 +0000
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Solihull Phone number needed

Steve ?? <ASFCO@aol.com> writes

>Would one of the list members in the UK kindly send me the phone number of LR
>Headquarters in Solihull. ( I am just too cheap to pay  4.95 for info thru
>the phone co.)     Thanks..Steve  WA2GMC  72 slll 88

 Land Rover
 Lode Lane, Solihull
 West Midlands B92 8NW
 England

 Locally      0 121 722 2424
 Fax          0 121 742 1927

 Int'l      +44 121 722 2424
 Fax        +44 121 742 1927

 From US 011+44 121 722 2424
 Fax     011+44 121 742 1927

 Telex 333766 Lan Rov G

 Holiday Cheer!!                             \ /
                                           -- o --
                          ______             / \
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: the nuts and bolts of stage 1's
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 12:13:50 +1030 (CST)

Dixon quips:
> 	Hmmmm...  Impressive... :-)  Are you not missing BSP?

Uuum well I think I use SAE stuff on the BSP fittings... (like diff breathers
?)   Failing that shifters work well.  Dang I forgot that there is NPT there
too (oil pressure/temp senders and maybe the swivel filler plugs?).  I can
never pick which one is 3/8-27  and 3/8-28 on eof tyhem is NPT and the other
something else.  These two suckers always get me.  I bet just about everyone
on the car has the wrong fitting in it.   Aint no substitute for brute force,
ignorance and gasket goo......  

>  For the torx,I'm sure if you get any goodies via Generous Motors that they
will come with that elusive screwhead.

Too Late, a little birdie in the West Indies told me off line that Landrover
have excelled themselves.  Guess what fitting the filler plug is on the new
R380 box........   I'm told that an 8mm (?) allen key will make a nice
substitute though.    

> Mount the coke machine bottle opener to the dash with a pair of torx
screws.

Heathen....  Every accessory on a land rover has to be fitted with genuine
fasteners..  specifically 1/4" (6mm on a post 9/80 rationalization series
vehicle) "pop" rivets.  Same ones that you keep replacing in the body... 

cheer-- 

  Daryl

------------------------------

From: WAHORN@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 21:14:26 -0500
Subject: WHEELS & TIRES

HEY Y'ALL,
Someone on the list made a posting about steel takeoff wheels from a Disco
fitting a series Rover.Well I talked to my local Land Rover dealer (Jax FL)
and
he said that all of the Discos come with aluminum wheels.Does anyone know of
other dealers that would be willing to ship some.Also what size tires are
people 
using on series vehicles (I have a 109 s/w) I am considering a 235/85-16.

                                                                       Thanks

                                                                       Ashley
Horn

P.S. if I end up using the original wheels can I mount tubless tires on them
?

'67 109" S/W nearly restored (financed by VISA gold)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 18:26:45 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Plushmobiles

Yes, riding in a Jeep once does count.  Now go forth and sin no more!

Happy Holidays!
John

At 11:54 18.12.95 -0800, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
>In message <199512171715.MAA00507@butler.uk.stratus.com> "John C. White, III" 
>writes:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)]
>I rode in a jeep once.  Does that count?
>TeriAnn
>twakeman@apple.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 19:06:41 -0800
From: cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson)
Subject: Re: Solihull Phone number needed

> Telex 333766 Lan Rov G

Do people still use Telex? Is there a way to send Telexes 
via the internet? 73

Chris Youngson, VE7CST
West Vancouver, BC
1965 109
  Donald Youngson              E-Mail address: kinley@direct.ca

  West Vancouver, B.C.       Tel/fax: +8-604-926-6282
  Canada V7V 1V4            

  

------------------------------

From: vogel@shrsys.hslc.org
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 22:18:05 EST
Subject: Why There Will Always Be An England

The Land Rover quotation of the week concerns the replacement of UN forces
by NATO to which Gunner John Smith opined: "It doesn

------------------------------

From: vogel@shrsys.hslc.org
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 22:22:01 EST
Subject: Why There Will Always Be An England

The Land Rover quotation of the week concerns the replacement of UN forces

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 03:20:37 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: test message

Please e-mail back

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 22:43:36
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: Jeep Sympathy and a good word

I recently bade a tearful farewell to two old friends: '54 and a '55 Willys 
4x4 Station Wagons (loved the little "Jeep 4 wheel drive" stencil and pot 
metal emblems and 'Willys' embossed on the chromed bumper ). Oh the days gone 
by when flatheads ruled the Earth! 
While not on a par with Rovers or Dodge Power Wagons, these lovable, quirky 
cars were among my all time favorite vehicles. So what if the radiator 
constantly puked all over the place! The car never let me down in the worst 
weather, Trico vacuum powered wipers and everything!
Go ahead and slam the AMC and Iacocca incarnations of the esteemed Jeep as 
they deserve every word of invective, but don't tread on my Willys!
What a car.
All my troubles are Rover

Bill Adams
3Dmentia Video Animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington,MD 20895
301-949-9475

1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense"

" One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin,
because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it."

------------------------------

From: vogel@shrsys.hslc.org
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 23:07:24 EST
Subject: Apology

I apologize to you all for some problems at my end that probably resulted in
some incomplete or garbled messages.  It has been corrected.  
I was trying to say: The Land Rover quotation of the week concerns the 
replacement of UN forces in Bosnia by NATO to which Gunner John Smith opined:
"It doesn't make any difference to us. We get the same orders whatever colour
the Land Rovers are."   - Agence France Press, December 16.

Tom Vogel
'72 SIII 88"

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Oh The Shame of it...
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:14:49 +1030 (CST)

Re: fixing bottle openers to dash panels.

I *Never* wrote that LR's use 1/4" rivets, nope not me, no way, not from this
keyboard, I wasnt here, I didn't do it, you didnt see me, you cant prove a
thing.  You all simply mis-read what I wrote, yeah thats it mis-read...

What *I* wrote was that you use 3/16" ( 4.8 mm for post 9/80
rationalisation vehicles) 'pop" rivets.

Undercomestumble?
-- 

  Daryl

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: WHEELS & TIRES
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:37:04 +1030 (CST)

> using on series vehicles (I have a 109 s/w) I am considering a 235/85-16.

If your '67 still has the original rims then the offset is a full 1/2"
greater than the current Disco (7 X16) or Defender 5.5X16 rims.
 Pre-68 rims (or 88" optionals) are 5.5 x 16 x 1 13/16 off set (46mm)
post '68 series jobbies are  5.5 x 16 x 1 5/16 (33mm) as are D110
Disco steel's  7.0 x 16 x 33mm
D130 steels  6.5 x 16 x 21mm    (I want i want)

Here in OZ 235/85-16 are legal on all of these rims (though on 5.5's are
officially "experimental fitments")

> P.S. if I end up using the original wheels can I mount tubless tires on them

Ok well ummm.  Technically and legally you need to use a tube, so that is my
reccomendation.  However it is possible to fit the tyres up tubeless, and I
have been doing so without incident for years.  This is not a reccomendation,
and I would have prefered to have had the tyres fitted "legally" but the
agent did not have any tubes to suit so I had little choice.  Over the years
I've become less worried about beads pulling off the rim. The last time I had
a puncture they had to use heavy truck bead breakers to get the suckers off
(8 ply tyres not 14's)  of course YMMV and for safetys sake you should use
tubes but.........

-- 

  Daryl

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 00:12:17 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Camel Origins

Mike Smith wrote that Jeeps were used in the first Camel Trophy.  Only four 
teams took part, and all were from West Germany.  Anyway, they didn't have a 
place to carry a second spare, so they bolted them to the bonnets, a la 
Rover.  The vehicles were poorly built, and with all that bashing about in 
the Amazon basin, the carbs ended up getting, well *shortened* a bit.  It 
was a major disaster and Jeep hasn't been used since.  Cheers
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Subject: Dixons abilities
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 18:48:35 -0500

Did you all know that Dixon won the OVLR lugnut of the year award or has 
he been a bit shy about telling you all about it? By the way Dixon is 
also looking for someone to show him how to use a phone to communicate 
with people instead of the modem and key board!!

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Subject: Camel Trophy uplink site
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 18:45:21 -0500

For those of you with (unlike myself) the ability to roam the web sites 
and upload stuff here is something for you.

Camel Trophy images can be accessed at the following sites:-

http://www.featurephoto.com
and
http:www.4x4u.com/pub/k2/am4x44u/whats-newcamelt1.htm

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 16:23:16 EST
From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff)
Subject: Re:  WHEELS & TIRES

Not sure what country a previous poster is from, but as I said before
steel rims are standard and bounteous on Disco's in Australia (and prob
UK).

Standard tyre size for LWB Series and 110 LR's has been 7.50 16 for as long
as I can remember. For Australians unable to erase nightmares, Dunlop
Roadtrack Majors were standard fare for a long time. 235/85 16 tyres have
the same overall height (and circumference) as the 7.50 16 if you feel you
need the extra width (eg for sand driving).

Tubeless tyres cannot be fitted to standard steel LR rims (legally) but
can be to Disco and RR rims.

Going on holidays for 2 weeks so I won't be replying to anything before then.

Regards

James Carley
Sydney, Australia
'85 110

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 04:32:54 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: Ignore the test.. Don't reply

I have had problems with the MSN network delivering mail. Seems that its 
working fne now. You lot don't have to reply. 

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 04:33:46 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: FW: Series 1 for sale

----------
From:  Mark Talbot
Sent:  Monday, December 18, 1995 1:12 PM
Subject:  Series 1 for sale

All, 

I have come across a nice S1 for sale, early 80 " with small instrument panel. 
Think it's a 52-53. The guy is asking $2500. What do you guys think. It has a 
hard top wit tailgate and lift up hatch. Bronze green, new frame, tank, 16" 
wheels etc. very nice, few dents ere and there, but what do you expect for a 
50's Land Rover

Any feed back would be helpful from S1 owners in the states

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 21:50:37 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Disco pricing

Questionable Middle East descent?  Why, because you aren't sure he's from the 
Middle East or because he knows how to haggle?  

Ah, the art of the deal.

Cheers!
John
At 19:43 18.12.95 PST, Russell Burns wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>> Anyway, are there any dealers willing to *deal* on a new Disco?  I'm looking 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)]
>> at the bottom end, box-stock SD model.  Does anyone know the margin on these 
>> vehicles so I can have a little wiggle room in dealing with these jokers?

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Dixons abilities
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 16:10:21 +1030 (CST)

> Did you all know that Dixon won the OVLR lugnut of the year award or has 
> he been a bit shy about telling you all about it?

Oooh, no he's kept quiet about this one.  Pray tell, for what galant act did
he receive the award.  I bet lots of us would like to know just so that we
can comfort the poor unfortunate :-)

come on Dixon 'fess up.

-- 

  Daryl

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Dixons abilities 
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 22:28:20 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Daryl Webb wrote:

  > Did you all know that Dixon won the OVLR lugnut of the year award or has 
  > he been a bit shy about telling you all about it?
  Oooh, no he's kept quiet about this one.  Pray tell, for what galant act did
  he receive the award.  I bet lots of us would like to know just so that we
  can comfort the poor unfortunate :-)

	I haven't heard all of the details and have been waiting to see what
got printed in the newsletter.  Last I heard Dixon had a long list of nominees,
including myself (though I can't recall what for off hand).  The day after
he got the award, Dixon was mumbling on how Dale Despray had sandbagged him.
Maybe Robin will have to enlighten us.  :-)

Ben 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Subject: LR Off Road School / Colorado?
From: david@stat.com (David Dodell)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 23:36:44 MST

I read someplace that there is a LandRover OffRoad School in Colorado.
Anyone know anything about this?

David Dodell

---
Internet: david@stat.com                 FAX: +1 (602) 451-6135
WWW: http://www.stat.com/~david

------------------------------

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