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Date: 16 Dec 95 09:58:57 EST
From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com>
Subject: Plushmobiles

In response to Teri Anne Wakemans article I would like to defend my Disco as an
extremely capable off-roader that gets one to the trail quickly and in comfort.
I resent the lable of yuppie-mobile. In fact some of the yuppies in my club are
the most ardent series owners. Before she lambasts the Camel Trophy Disco's I
suggest she get the facts. Yes they are diesels and that is one reason why they
have the incredible wading abilities ( no electronics) As for the support they
get on the event a competitor in the 94 event, Mac Barber, told me that aside
from changing tires and cleaning fuel filters (very important on a diesel) the
vehicle just kept going. He liked it so much that when he got back he bought one
for himself. Anyone wishing to call Mac a yuppie had better have good dental
insurance. I hardly think Ms. Wakemans series Rover could do a better job
crossing Borneo that a Disco.
Don't get me wrong I love the look and feel of the series vehicles. When
finances and storage space allow I plan on gettign one myself. I would love to
have a coil-sprung, galvanized chassis 88 with a smuggled in Tdi or Isuzu 2.8
complete with snorkle so I could show some of the Georgia rednecks that 10 litre
V8's and 44" tires are not the only solution to North GA clay and granite.
Obvioulsy I would take this vehicle some places the Disco does not go. Not
because I don't think it would make it but becuase I have to drive it to work
the next day. The disco has already surprised many of the rural residents of the
GA hills with its ablility-

Anyway Comments like yuppie and plushmobile are the sort of derision we don't
need on the list. A Land Rover is a Land Rover no matter what it cost or when it
was built.

							Mark Ritter
							94 Disco
							Yes, I do wave!

------------------------------

From: LAW142@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 10:57:18 -0500
Subject: SNORKLE FOR MY SERIES IIA WITH 3.5LV8

I'm looking for a way to purchase a snorkle for LR SIIA with a 3.5V8 without
having to pay a fortune.   I'm also looking for a US based company that can
build/make a roll cage for my SIIA SW with safari roof that will still allow
me to put on a roof rack with rear  ladder.
  Can any one help me?

Karl Young II
69 Land Rover Series IIA  109
Station Wagon w/Safari Roof, RHD
Austin, Texas

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:13:52 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Rangies With US V-8?

In LRO Magazine I occasionally see blurbs about Rangies 
with Chevrolet 350 V-8 conversions, and I've heard of a 
Ford V-8 conversion too.  Does anyone know anyone about 
these -- who makes the kits, whether they retain the RR 
transmission, etc.?  Just curious.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 11:30:13 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: VIN/Chassis numbers

Dear all,
        Another one for you. Just got some photos of a client's Rover we
are going to do some work on. The weird thing, maybe not weird, but
something I haven't seen is, the tag with the numbers on it is all in
French. Is this what the tags looked like when sent to a French market? The
Chassis number checks out to be LHD, export 109, as does the Rover, but I
have not seen a French tag before.
Any thoughts?

Mike Smith, ECR

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:31:41 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Plushmobiles

At 09:58 AM 12/16/95 EST, you wrote:
>In response to Teri Anne Wakemans article I would like to defend my Disco as an
>extremely capable off-roader that gets one to the trail quickly and in comfort.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>the most ardent series owners. Before she lambasts the Camel Trophy Disco's I
>suggest she get the facts.

<discussion of Disco and Series snipped>

>Anyway Comments like yuppie and plushmobile are the sort of derision we don't
>need on the list. A Land Rover is a Land Rover no matter what it cost or
when it
>was built.

Look, everyone, let's understand that the comments  about "plushmobile" and
the like are 
meant to be taken in jest.  Don't take them seriously and get offended.
Think of them
as being accompanied by a dig in the ribs and a hearty chortle.

Clearly people can like both Series vehicles and Rangies/Discos --  indeed,
many on this
list own both (and I aspire to.)  But the Series drivers can poke fun at the
yuppie Disco
drivers wailing over espresso spills and noisy carphones, and the Disco
owners can laugh 
at the Series owners wearing earplugs, freezing in the winter, and broiling
in the summer.
(There, now I've offended everyone.)  It's all in fun, folks.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:31:41 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Disco and Lucas

Actually the '95s have a several second delay as well.  Mine hasn't had the
buzzing that Bob talks about though.  Bob's radio may just be getting a
broadcast from Radio Free Lucas.

Cheers!
John

At 08:08 15.12.95 -0500, Gerald wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>I wonder if this is related to the several second delay in 96 Disco 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
>Gerald
>g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 20:27:52 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Hardtop insulation

David Bobeck wrote:
>>Now that autumn has given way to winter, mymind once again turns to the 
>>tricky problem of dodging the drips of condensation emenating from the 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 38 lines)]
>handy with a needle and thread.
>Cheers
>Dave "No Roof Rash" Bobeck
Actually you can still get the product from John Craddock in the UK, 
although I do not have their latest ad here at the moment.  I seem to 
remember some name like PG Absorbent Headliner, so it may not be the 
original LR product but something made by Procter & Gamble.  As far as I 
know these headliners are on back order though, and you may have to wait 
until the beginning of April. They also advertise the Absorbent Headliner 
Valve Set which consists of four small valves for the four corners of the 
roof.  These will allow the moisture that is channeled to them by special 
ducts in the headliner to trickle down on the outside of the LR without 
letting water in.  Unfortunately they are not marked really well and 
installation is by trial and error unless you have very keen eyesight, since 
the only difference between the inside and the outside is the tiny letters 
FO for the inside and OL for the outside.  I have not been able to find out 
what the letters stand for.  Their fax number is (UK) 1543 505 408.
For a drier drive
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:06:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Where are the diesels?

I ask whether anyone knows why we can't get them here in the US? 

I had a chance to drive the Tdi last weekend (with water coming over the hood
at times) during the Camel Trophy trials.  I asked a couple of the guys from
LRNA if they planned to bring the Tdi to the US.  They all said that there
was no plans as of now to import the Tdi.

If people are interested in the Tdi they might think about writing a letter
to LRNA. After BMW decided not to import the new E36 M3 they received quite a
few letters.  Executives from BMWNA have publicly announced that it was the
letters received from owners and potential owners that got them to change
their mind.

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:49:06 -0500
Subject: Vehicle ID Number system

does anybody know the code for 1964 vehicle ID Numbers ??
                                        the number I have has  a total of 9
digits  and is configured as such  ...                         2 numbers ,
one letter,  6 numbers. Anybody have a clue??
                                        thanks      Steve Bradke
                      

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:11:32 -0800
Subject: Yuppies and other sources of unrest.

Please, don't go crazy about the joking that goes around this list regarding 
Series Rovers versus the newer models.  Most everything said here is in jest, or 
at very least in envy.

What really counts is whether or not you appreciate the vehicle for what it is: 
the worlds toughest and most versatile off-road vehicle.  Of course, there is an 
abundance of gadgetry on the newer vehicles (disco, RR, even Defender) but look 
at the market.  We Series owners are a "lunatic fringe" (and quite content in 
being so) and lunatic fringes don't usually have the spending power of other 
groups.  As a result, the new models have the conveniences and niceties that 
such a market requires.  This is not to say that people who buy newer rovers are 
in someway inferior.  For the most part, people buying the newer rovers are just 
different people from series owners.

All rover owners have the responsibility to make each other feel welcome based 
on the person behind the wheel, not the vehicle they're sitting in. There is a 
series owner in every disco owner and vice-versa.

OK, enough misc. ramblings...its just that this whole series/non-series thing 
has the potential to get out of hand and create even more divisions within the 
rover community.

Eric  
(a confirmed series owner who still waves to discos and RRs in hope)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:12:42
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: Trailers

I still can't get over the guy who put 15 sheets of 3/4 particle board on th 
e rack. One good right hander and...

I'd like to hear about trailing loads behind series Rovies. I'm considering a 
utility trailer for hauling and junkyard runs. Any advice and/or horror story 
would be appreciated.
Also wonder about the apparently PTO-driven trailer pictured in the 
literature. Anybody have one of these? what a hoot!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:25:24
From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS)
Subject: To those who are about to die,we salute you..

Parts that is. Thanks to all for their advice during the recent transmission 
crisis. (RN, expect a call from my mechanic!) Much to our chagrin, the 
gearbox expired. It is now on the table experiencing open heart surgery 
($$$$) On the bright side, it will be ready for another 30 years of faithful 
service. 
"All my troubles are Rover"

Bill Adams
3Dmentia Video Animation
4016 Spruell Drive
Kensington,MD 20895
301-949-9475

1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense"

" One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin,
because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:36:38 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: RE: Popular Science

And you know what else, Bob?  They tell me the room service on the Camel Trophy
is terrible.  The Connaught Hotel has nothing to worry about.

Sniff.
John

At 10:36 15.12.95 -0800, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>>From: 	John C. White, III[SMTP:jcwhite3@well.com]
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)]
>    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU
>with espresso machine and tongue-in-cheek.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:36:46 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: RE: wading of plushmobiles

At 21:59 15.12.95 -0600, Soren Vels Christensen wrote:

>I'm not really defending (!(?)) the disco. I just wonder why the plush
>pilots worry so much about buzzing radios, squeeking back doors and all
>that.

These are the most minor of complaints, true, but Land Rover claims to build 
top quality vehicles in every regard.  The off-road capabilities of 
Discoveries are only part of the equation.  Land Rover has also seen fit to 
appoint NAS Discos with power steering, power anti-lock brakes, air 
conditioning, stereos with cassette players (optionally also CD players), 
leather upholstery, electric sunroofs (optionally), and carpeting.  If Land 
Rover can't get these items right, then it shouldn't be in the plush 
business.  

As the saying goes, "A job worth doing is worth doing well."

Cheers!
John

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:36:28 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Popular Science

Camel Trophy Discoveries are diesel so they aren't as electronically fragile 
as the V8i in NAS Discos, but I would venture to guess that an added feature 
of the diesel is that it has almost twice the gas mileage of the V8i.  
That's got to be especially important on a 1,000 mile trek where the nearest 
gas station is who knows where.

Let's talk about plushness and its darker yuppie submessage, shall we?  A 
Discovery can't clear the same rocks that a Series can.  There are things I 
can do when I'm wearing a t-shirt and jeans ("real" peoples clothes) that I 
can't do when I'm wearing a suit (yuppie garb) because suits are more 
confining.  Nevertheless it's still my god-like physique in both.  Many LROs 
have expounded on the off-road capabilities of the Discovery.  It is a Land 
Rover from its logo to Lucas electricals.

Oh yes, and no one forced me to buy a Discovery.  I bought one of my own 
free will.  Does that make me a yuppie?  While I hate all that the label 
implies (selfishness. Conspicuous, graceless consumption.  Snobbery), I will 
leave it to those who know me to decide whether or not the label fits.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery

At 10:19 15.12.95 -0800, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
>In message <199512151601.LAA13919@butler.uk.stratus.com> "John C. White, III" 
>writes:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>John, I suspect the only reason the Camel trophy runs are done by Discos was 
>because Rover insisted that they use them.  Discos are cheaper for them to
build
>& I understand that their margins are higher on Discos.  They probably started 
>supplying Discos for this event purely to show the potential customers that 
>plushmobiles can go offroad too.  With the kind of support the Camel Trophy
cars
>get, it could probably be run by a Ford Tarus.  Mind you it may be a year or 
>more slower making it to the finish than the Discos.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
>I have indeed seen proof of Discos doing wonderous things off road but they 
>still have minimal ground clearence for rocky mountainous terrain.  Mind
you I'm
>not making a value judgment on plushmobiles, except for the new Range Rover
that
>doesn't look like it would go half the places the classic will without  losing 
>the ground effects baffeling and that low side step.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 31 lines)]
>don't own yuppi cars, plushmobiles or rice burners by personal choice.
>TeriAnn
>twakeman@apple.com

------------------------------

Subject: Nice lightweight for sale
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 95 19:31:04 -0500

I just received my January 96 Land Rover World. in the classifieds at the 
back on page 125 is one of the nicest s3 lightweights in good condition 
for sale that I have seen for a while.

The vehcile is complete with cam nets et al and the guy only wants POUNDS 
UK 2950!! I'll be checking my lottery ticket in the am ....

Robin

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Subject: Land Rover Toy News
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 95 19:24:02 -0500

Just when you thought it was safe......

Matchbox Collectibles have come out with a new version of their series 
one fire truck with trailer in the "Works Fire Service" livery.

The new version is diffreent only by the following:-
Decal gone from door,
Wheels now chromed intsead of red

If you ask me it does not look as good as the original but I"ll be buying 
it anyway....

I found another one of the NASA 90 and trailers with the blue wheels 
today, again in a ZEllers store.

If you would like to be included in a toy / model digest email me direct.

Rgds
Robin

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Where are the diesels? 
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:14:28 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199512162007.PAA15069@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote:
  
> I ask whether anyone knows why we can't get them here in the US? 
> I had a chance to drive the Tdi last weekend (with water coming over the hood
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> LRNA if they planned to bring the Tdi to the US.  They all said that there
> was no plans as of now to import the Tdi.

	I've heard 2 conflicting rumors about the 300 Tdi.  The first is that
LRNA got it past US DOT/EPA, but doesn't think that there is a market in the
US for diesel engines.  The other is that the engine is designed to meet 
European specs and that so far LRNA has been unable to get the engine through
California Smog tests.  Since, according to rumor, there is a huge EPA fine
to bring a vehicle that cannot pass emmissions for all 50 states, LRNA gave up.
I have yet to find anyone who can give a definite answer.

Ben 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Disco's
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 95 17:21:47 PST

Had a chance last weekend to brake one of those new yuppie mobiles.
I happen to be out on the left coast when my good friend Raj picked up
his new disco. Green thing with leather seats, cd changer, dual sunroofs,
built in expressio machine ect.. ect.
The first plan was to go to holister hills and see the camel trials.
But it seems that LRNA took over the park. All we could do is sit
outside the gate and form a parade with some other Rover owners.

After giving up on the trails, we headed south to another orv place
Clear creek. We did manage to get the disco temporarly detained on a hill.
I was explaining the benifits of having a shovel and other like tools
as we ascended this steep hill. We got to a ripply section and Raj decided
to slow down. With the loss of momentium we coulds not progress any futher
up the hill. I explained to Raj that we needed to back down the hill. As
there was a 4 foot deep rut on the passenger side I told him I would 
watch my side. Sticking my head out the window I was announcing the
distance in feet between the rut and his new truck. 
We started at three feet from the rut, and proceded to back down the hill
We then were 4 feet, and 5 feet from the rut when Raj slamed on the brakes
and announced that he backed into a tree.
So I got out and looked. The tree was the least of our worries.
It seems that he was following a rut on the drivers side, and right after the
"bush" it got progressively deeper. At we sat, the rear diff was scraping the
ground. I had Raj get out of the car to take a look, and he promply started 
sliding down the hill. (it was almost too steep to walk up)
I tried letting some air out of the tires for better traction, but I still
could not get enought to drive up the hill and take a better cut.
Well out came the jack, jacked up the rear tire. Dragged trees, rocks,small
kids etc.. and filled in the rut. After chipping at the sides of the ruts
with the jack handles, I think Raj realized the benifits of a shovel.
After about 9 cu yards of fill I was able to back the yuppie mobile down
the hill. Raj then explored some of the other trails in the park. A lot of
trails had overhanging bush, and would scrape the Disco. I kept muttering
that this was a Land-Rover polish job, but know one caught the humor....
Needless to say, when we were done there were a number of minor (major)
scratches in the clear coat. Raj was quite upset about this kept muttering
about ruining the truck with less than 500 mile on it. But actually I think
he told his fiance that this was going to be her truck, and was afraid
to face the wrath of the little women. At dinner I explained that if
the Land-Rover polish did not suit him, you could buff out the clear coat and
it would look like new.
He clearly was an unbeliver, but his up comming marriage gave him little choice.Some how Sunday he found some one with a buffer who polished the Disco,
allowing him to visit his fiance safely sunday nite.
Talking to him latter that week, he said he was heading down to holister hills
to do some more offroading. I replied "great, a few more times and you won,t
even have ot bother with the wax and polish jobs...."

Russ Burns
91 R-Rover
94 D-90
One of those damn yuppie types (mistakes can happen to the best of us)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:59:21 +0000
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Hardtop Insulation

 Peter Hirsh <lopezba@atnet.at> writes:

:Actually you can still get the product from John Craddock...  They also
:advertise the Absorbent Headliner Valve Set which consists of four small
:valves for the four corners of the roof.  These will allow the moisture
:that is channeled to them by special ducts in the headliner to trickle
:down on the outside of the LR without letting water in.  Unfortunately
:they are not marked really well... the only difference between the inside
:and the outside is the tiny letters FO for the inside and OL for the
:outside.  I have not been able to find out what the letters stand for.

 Let's see, FO and OL??  FO, OL??  FO-OL?  Could it be FOOL!  :)

 Holiday Cheers,
                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------

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