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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:44:18 +0200 (GMT+0200)
From: Donald Abbot <donald@spl.co.za>
Subject: Re: D90 Bonnet Doesn't Pop Open

 
On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Ted VanDecar wrote saying that he has problems with 
his bonnet release. 

On both my Series IIA and III I have replaced the bonnet release 
mechanism with those rally-style T-shaped hooks. No problem.

Before doing the Series II, I had the rather unpleasant experience of the 
bonnet flying up while driving. Obviously this can only happen when the 
spare is not on the bonnet. As Murphy would have it, it was a dark, 
misty, wet night and we were travelling flat-out down a long hill. Ever 
see two people steer a Landie at the same time?

Donald

------------------------------

From: Danny Phillips <danny@tlpgate.lonpar.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 9:57:59 GMT

> -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
> In the Jan '96 issue of Popular Science there is a brief write up on the new
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> thus follows the trend away from all-out ruggedness in high-priced SUV's"
> Don't let LR know they aren't trendy!

what you mean they have been, oh no i have become a fashion victim, run away

:-)

happy xmas
danny

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 05:26:58 EST
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Re: Winge moan...

*** Resending note of 14/12/95 18:33
>         Wow.
>         You
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>         margin
>         syndrome"
>         Bobeck
  
OK, next time you come to Fareham I'll buy you a pint.
Are you here often??  No?  Shame :-)
  
Regards, Det. Sgt. Flying Fox of the Yard (standing in for
A.Nally-Retentive)
  
That should keep the Python fans happy for a while!
  

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Movie Sighting
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 07:46:23 -0500
From: Gary Mitchelson <garym@cais.cais.com>

-- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Caught the end of Mission Impossible yesterday on FX and in this episode Jim
was driving a blue series LR.

--
Gary Mitchelson     
N3JPU     
garym@racalrecord.com     
Racal Recorders, Inc.       

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 07:44:00 EST

Dear Pissed off in Boston(RFSR)

Carburettor icing seems to be(RFSR)
 a problem that plagues us(RFSR)
  in the North East. Cold damp air(RFSR)
 combined with the latent heat required(RFSR)
to evaporate gasoline provides an(RFSR)
  ideal condition for ice(RFSR)
formation. The cure I used when(RFSR)
 I had the Solex was to(RFSR)
install a heated air cleaner(RFSR)
  using an extra heater core in(RFSR)
series with the main unit through(RFSR)
 which the engine drew its air.(RFSR)
Another alternative is to fit a(RFSR)
  pancake air filter with an intake from(RFSR)
 close to the exhaust manifold.(RFSR)
 Since fitting the Weber I haven't had any(RFSR)
icing (now I will of course). (RFSR)
 Alex has been suffering the same(RFSR)
problem on the Series III and(RFSR)
  we have to build a heated air cleaner for him.(RFSR)

 (RFSR)=Return for Steve Reddock

Trevor Easton

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:58:03 -0800
From: gthrall@ix.netcom.com (Glenn Wm. Thrall )
Subject: 1987 (and up) Range Rovers

December 14, 1995

Ben suggested I ask you about Range Rovers. I wrote the following to 
Ban a short while ago. Any insight you can give would be much 
appreciated!

Glenn
Glenn Thrall
gthrall@ix.netcom.com
------------------------
I've been leaving business cards here and there, watching the 
advertisements, talking to Steve and others at BritPac with the clear 
understanding that I am a newbie at Land Rovers.

It is possible an '87 Land Rover may be on the market (unfortunately 
through a local California (USA) car dealer) in the next few days. If 
the price is right, and the vehicle is "correct" I'd like to buy the 
machine.

I have read in the UK and Mendo_Recce digests that the '87 is a robust 
Range Rover. What should I look for? What are the *very* approximate 
values? I'll also call AAA and my bank and ask for high and low blue 
book. I honest ly detest dealing with automobile dealers, although all 
of us must make a living.

What is a ballpark price range for a clean, or not so clean, '87? I've 
noticed ASKING prices in the British Pacific Monthly Flyer in the $17K 
range for later models. I understand they sell for less.

Any counsel would be greatly appreciated. I live in the Pasadena 
(actually City of San Gabriel, south of Pasadena), California, area. 

ANY owner of a Series vehicle or RR knows a whole lot more about the 
nature of the beast and what to look for than I do. YOU may think you 
don't have the experience ... but if the members of this list do not 
have some knowledge - who does? 

You have my sincere appreciation for anything you can contribute!

Glenn

Glenn Thrall
gthrall@ix.netcom.com
          
----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Gerald" <g@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:08:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Disco and Lucas

I wonder if this is related to the several second delay in 96 Disco 
radios before any sound comes on. Someone guessed this was to allow 
time for the aerial to rise, but the NAS cars don't offer the 
electric aerial which you can get in the U.K.

On 14 Dec 95 at 16:59, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote:
> Since I bought  my 95 Discovery,  the radio has always made a buzzing sound 
> immediately after it was turned on and before the music would come out. Just 
> recently, I've notice that it no longer does that. I suppose that's good, 
> but I can't help but wonder what's happened or changed. 
 

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 8:37:54 EST
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:D90, 15K mile update

Hi all,

Some fellow LRO's have asked about problems if any, with the Defenders. My 
95 D90 just turned 15K miles and went in for service 12/13/95. I was told 
at the dealer this costs $250.

All are MINOR items under warranty so far:

1) - Left turn signal flashing @ twice normal speed. Cleaned/adj. 
connectors, & replaced bulbs.

2) - Cracking noise heard when returning steering wheel to center from 
full lock. Adj. wheel stop.

3) - Door check brackets rubbed a small whole in trim edge. Replace trim & 
adj. bracket.

4) - Rubber molding on safari cage cracked. Replaced cage.   

5) - SMALL, & I mean small tear on the edge of the canvas top from back 
door. Adj. & tire carrier, & replaced the whole top! 

6) - Passenger seat rattles. Replaced defective seat frame.

7) - Slight vibration in steering wheel @ 55-60 MPH. re-balanced tires.

8) - Small oil leak @ radiator coupling. I tightened coupling.

9) - Small antifreeze leak @ radiator hose. I tightened hose clamp.

10) - Getting water in cargo area. Water is coming in from the front 
inside corners of the wheel boxes, only while driving. Re-sealed between 
floor panels.

11) - Chattering when slowing to a stop. I adj. transmission brake.

As you can see all of these were minor problems. I do a lot of off-roading 
&  I expect to tighten a few things from time to time.

O.K. now for the bad stuff!!

The one major mechanical problem I've had so far has been the rear diff. I 
had Air Lockers & OME HD suspension installed at Rovers North, 11/3. I 
Noticed a grinding noise on the way home only when slowing down from 60MPH 
to exit the highway. That's why we didn't hear it during our test drive. 
RN swapped the ARB for another one, 11/10 but the noise persisted. RN 
installed another diff for me so I could get home, it's a 4.5 hour trip! 

RN found that my pinion height was too high on my original diff. Pinion is 
not touched with the ARB installation. Only backlash between ring & pinion 
needs to be set. No one really knows why I didn't have a problem before 
the ARB?

RN rebuilt my original diff & came down to my house to do the swap, & all 
seemed fine, 11/17. I noticed a small leak coming from the pinion seal and 
replaced the seal 12/1. 12/12 I heard a MAJOR squealing noise from the 
rear diff as I started home from work. My 15K mile service at the dealer 
was scheduled for 12/13 anyhow, so I went straight there. My D90 has been 
there ever sence.

It took the dealer a day to do the 15K service, & another day to do the 
warranty work. They pulled out my diff and sent it to RN. RN sent another 
diff down here so the dealer to get me back on the road.

RN has installed many ARB's and never had this problem! My front locker 
has been perfect from day one! RN won't know what's going on until they 
can get a look at the evil, devil diff!

Meanwhile I am stuck in driver hell with a crapy Toyota Corolla rental! 
That was really fun to drive home in during yesterdays 8" snowstorm! NOT! 
I couldn't even get up my driveway!

O.K. I'm done. I guess I was reaching out for a little sympathy, or even 
better, anyone think they might be able to shed a light on what's wrong?

Barnett,
Getting upset, cranky & missing my rover!
Childress

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 09:01:57 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Burlieth Land-Rover Club

Well it seems we're on the verge of having a small club here.  Burlieth, a
small neighborhood outside of Georgetown in Washington DC, bears the
distinction of being home to many Land-Rovers, of the Series variety as well
as the all too common Rangies and Disco's. Well upon inspection of a Pastel
Green SIII up the street, I noticed a can of <gasp> DOT 3 brake fluid on the
dashboard. I acted quckly in this emergency situation and left a long note
detailing the downfalls of this "brake poison" and the fact that we are
currently (read: still) rebuilding Will's hydraulics for the same reason.  So
I got a call from this chap, and we got together for a few test drives,
followed by a few Black and Tans. We made a tour of all the other neighborhood
Rovers, which include a SII(a)? 109 SW, a 109 Military (hasn't moved in at
least a year) and another Pastel Green SIII 88. That makes a total of six
Series vehicles in about a one mile radius. I've envisioned leaving some sort
of note for the other folks, perhaps we can organize a parade or something, or
large purchases of parts, or other things that a <real> club might do.
Or we can have a yearly "Birthday Party" wherein we test the viscosity of
several different local blends and go tromping about the alleys and lawns
of Georgetown.  I believe our newest member is lurking about somewhere...
Steve Reddock you are cordially invited to our first meeting, I'll take up
your offer at one of our lacal establishments.

 Dave

------------------------------

Date:     Fri, 15 Dec 95 8:57:31 EST (1357Z)
From: LTC Larry Smith <smithla@arngrc-emh2.army.mil>
Subject:  Majorette Range Rover

Robin,

Took the heir apparant to We B Toys last night for some ideas for Santa.  While
on a recon for him (yeah right <g>) I found a Majorette set.  It has a five 
door Range Rover (front two operational) with a caravan.  1/36 scale.  
Operational suspension.  Made in France.  Price was $8.00USD.  Sorry - they 
only had one, but will strafe the other local stores over the weekend if you 
are interested.

Take care,

Larry

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:36:07 -0500
From: Jonathan Hatch <pyramid@esslink.com>
Subject: Disco and Lucas

Regarding the radio buzzing just after turning it on in Disco's, I have 
noticed the same thing in my '95 Disco.  It buzzes if you turn the radio on 
after turning the motor on, but if you simply leave the radio on after you 
turn the motor off, then the next time you start it up, the radio comes on 
without buzzing first.  I'm not sure this is a solution, but it ends the 
buzzing.  (Knowing the Lucas reputation for quality, I have tested this 
with all phases of the moon and it is consistent.)

Jonathan Hatch
pyramid@esslink.com
Jonathan Hatch
860 379 6626

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:36:06 -0500
From: Jonathan Hatch <pyramid@esslink.com>

I would appreciate recommendations for U.S. sources of rubber/winter floor 
mats (front and rear) and rear cargo mats for a '95 Disco.

Thanks.

Jonathan Hatch
pyramid@esslink.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:37:21 -0500
From: Jonathan Hatch <pyramid@esslink.com>
Subject: Floor Mats

I would appreciate recommendations for U.S. sources of rubber/winter floor 
mats (front and rear) and rear cargo mats for a '95 Disco.

Thanks.

Jonathan Hatch
pyramid@esslink.com

------------------------------

From: Mike Fredette~ <mfredett@sedona.intel.com>
Subject: Re: NAS D90 "Plastic" Top - Additional Parts? (fwd)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:39:27 +22305823 (MST)

I didn't ask for info, I was volunteering it to Jeremy, but here's a repost
in case you missed it.  
 
 > I'm planning on getting one of the dealer plastic hardtops for the D90 
 > in a few months.  I was hoping someone with a '94 D90 can tell me what 
 	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 8 lines)]
 > door lock or handle change or something like that?
 > Jeremy
 
 	The changes needed have nothing to do with the rear door per say.
 The 95 models have a lockable (with a key) rear door but the 94's do not.
 So you need to replace the rear latch assy with a new keyed one or face
 the prospect of clibming over the seats each time you want lock or unlock 
 the rear. The more serious aspect is that they changed the angle of the
 dangle, as it were, of the rear roll cage support on the 95's. It attaches
 to the bed rail a bit (2 in) farther back than the 94. This means you get
 to cut/hack a new notch in the new hardtop since the notch already there is
 in the wrong locale. Also, the 95s have the rivnuts for attaching the top
 already installed in the bed rails while the 94's don't, this means drilling 
 a dozen or so 8mm holes and installing said rivnuts. There is a retro fit kit
 that contains the rivnuts, and a cute little piece o plastic to cover up the 
 unsightly notch left over for the low low bargain basement price of $84.00.
 Just buy the hard top and order the rivnuts from RN for a nickle or so each
 and build your own piece o plastic. I've had mine on for a year now, no leaks
 and much quieter than the soft top, a bit fragile though. I crunched it pretty 
 good on a tree while screwing up the line on a nasty side slope.
 
 Rgds
 Mike Fredette
 94 D90 
 67 88 RHD
 Phoenix Az, soon to be Portland again 
 

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:40:25 +0000
Subject:       A hardtop insulation & condensation killer question

Hi all,

Now that autumn has given way to winter, mymind once again turns to the 
tricky problem of dodging the drips of condensation emenating from the 
roof.

My question is: Can I glue some carpet up there to cut out the 
condensation (and the noise at the same time :-)?

Subsequent questions: Is one type of carpeting better than another?
 		Is there a better alternative to carpeting?
		Will these things actually stop the condensation or will they just 
absorb the water and go smelly?
 

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:02:28 -0800
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Popular Science

Oh, TeriAnn.  Plushmobiles???  What is the current choice for Camel Trophy
vehicles, rough and tumble Defenders or plushmobile Discoveries?  True, they
had to rough the CT Discoveries up a bit (no air conditioning, no radio or
CD player, and no espresso machine or Grey Poupon), but as you yourself
point out, Discoveries are very capable off road, yet you deride LRNA for
marketing only plushmobiles with the demise of the D90.  They still import
Discos, three versions no less, and, judging from another post, the D90 will
be back.

Plushmobiles.  Hrmph!
John

At 13:47 13.12.95 -0800, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>In message <199512131835.NAA10666@butler.uk.stratus.com> Gary Mitchelson

writes:
>> In the Jan '96 issue of Popular Science there is a brief write up on the new
>; Jeep Cheeroke and the have an interesting note, PS says "The grand Cherokee
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>driving.  The side steps and front valance would hang up in no time.  I asked 
>the dealer about this once.  He said that they were told that the purchaser
will
>never take these cars off roading.  They are ment to take people to ski lodges 
>in style.
>While the Discos are very off road capable, they were designed to take only 
>small diameter  tyres and have those plastic dohickies on the sides just

aching 
>to be broken.
>All out ruggidness?  Just look at the interiors and the questions people have 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
>TeriAnn
>twakeman@apple.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 11:06:36 EST
From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins)
Subject: Disco's wading

Look everyone, if I can't wade my Disco just as much as the D90, 110 or
whatever, I'm going to be very mad!    I hope it's true to its Rover blood
in spite of having a few creature comforts :-)

The manual says 22 inches without any trouble.  I looked pretty closely at
the Camel video and they have Disco's in water that is more than 22 inches.
They also seem to have what looks like a cloth or plastic tube in the
position I would expect a snorkel to be in one of the shots.  I have not
seen wading/fording/whatever you call it gear adevrtised for the Disco.
Does it exist?

I would certainly presume that all of the computer bits should be somehow
able to be protected if you about to wade your vehicle, but from the recent
comments on Range Rovers, I geuss the answer is no.  Has anyone made up a
spares kit list for a wading imparied Disco?  I would certainly want to
have spares enough to reboot/rebuild the computer foo if I was in a real
remote place.

Finally, I presume that if I can't wade it, I could at least winch it
across more than 24 inches?  (assuming an electric powered winch and a
protected battery, and the engine was off)

Tom Des Jardins, Inbound Technology Group
FORE Systems (412)635-3374  FAX 635-3333 url http://www.fore.com
5800 Corporate Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15237-5829

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:27:53 -0800
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Disco and Lucas

Robert Watson (CNA) wrote:

> Since I bought  my 95 Discovery,  the radio has always made a buzzing sound
> immediately after it was turned on and before the music would come out. Just
> recently, I've notice that it no longer does that. I suppose that's good,
> but I can't help but wonder what's happened or changed.

The Lucas electrical system has finally overcome its jealousy and reconciled itself to having to 
provide power to a Japanese Pioneer radio.

Did Lucas ever make radios though?

-- 

Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 Beluga Black Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 11:56:36 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: A hardtop insulation & condensation killer question

Hi all,

Now that autumn has given way to winter, mymind once again turns to the 
tricky problem of dodging the drips of condensation emenating from the 
roof.

My question is: Can I glue some carpet up there to cut out the 
condensation (and the noise at the same time :-)?

Subsequent questions: Is one type of carpeting better than another?
   Is there a better alternative to carpeting?
  Will these things actually stop the condensation or will they just 
absorb the water and go smelly?
 
Well actually, (yep, you guessed it) there was a product made by Land-Rover
for this very purpose. Many years ago, in the days of exceptionally leak
prone Series vehicles, Land Rover engineers formed an unlikely bond with
engineers in another field entirely. It seems that in the early Sixties,
there were new breakthroughs occuring in the field of liquid absorption.
Land Rover teamed up with researchers from Proctor and Gamble in the US, in
order to help them test a material that was intended for use in their soon
to be released line of modern day disposable diapers. Only available for
about ten months in 1963, the Land-Rover-
Ultra-Absorbent-Disposable-Headliner was an instant hit. It often held an
entire rainy season's worth of water with nary a drip or a dribble. Sadly,
Procter and Gamble still held the patent for the material and forced
Land-Rover to either cough up a large percentage of their profits or drop
it from their product line.  Naturally, Land-Rover had no interest in
sharing any of their money, and once stock ran out, the Disposable
Headliner was no longer available.  Occasionally you may find one that
still has some absorption potential, if you look in the more arid regions
of the world.  Some shops may still have some old stock laying around, but
be prepared to pay through the nose. I'm not sure of the original part
number. I suppose a make shift version could be made at home if you're
handy with a needle and thread.

Cheers

Dave "No Roof Rash" Bobeck

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:05:22 +0100
From: terje@tvnorge.no (Terje Krogdahl)
Subject: Re: Disco's wading

>position I would expect a snorkel to be in one of the shots.  I have not
>seen wading/fording/whatever you call it gear adevrtised for the Disco.
>Does it exist?

Oh yes. Mantec Services in England makes snorkel kits for Disco's and other
Rovers. I don't have their number here at work, but you'll probably find
an advertismet from them in any old issue of LRO and possibly LRW.

TK

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:11:07 -0500
Subject: Wading in a Range Rover

>What does happen if you wade a Range Rover in water past the bottom door
sills? 
>Does it fill up with water, ruin your CD player, make your plush carpets
soggy.

Late this summer we were launching the boat at Lake Shasta in N. California,
the water level was low and the launch ramp was out of the water.  I had to
back the Range Rover in until the rear lights were almost completely under
water to get the boat off.  When I looked down the water was about an inch
below the side rub strip. (5" above the bottom of the door sills).  Not a
drop of water came in.

Well now that it is winter the Range Rover is living up to its family
reputation, "they all leak oil out and water in"  I just bought new tires so
I will be ready when the ski areas in Tahoe open. I decided to swap the new
spare with an old tire and buy one less.  When I took my spare out I found it
was sitting in a small puddle of water.  Any tips where the water is coming
from, sealing up the rear wheel well? Thanks

Kevin Kelly
'89 Range Rover

------------------------------

From: Mike Fredette~ <mfredett@sedona.intel.com>
Subject: wading of plushmobiles
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:29:31 +22305823 (MST)

	There has got to be a stop to all this talk of deep
wading for you R/R and Disco types here in the US. The comparisons
to the Camel Trophy vehicles are silly for the simple reason
that they use Tdi engines. There are no engine managment chips to drown on
these vehicles, indeed, no ignition system at all. At least not one
that is dependent on electricity to work. As long as a diesel has air
and fuel, it will run. The NAS D90 is ALSO not supposed to
wade in more than 22 inches of water. The 94 NAS D90 has the ECU
on the passenger side firewall , unless you have air conditioning 
(ha ha ha), in which case it has been relocated to the passenger side
kick panel, right in front of the door. The 95's came "a/c ready" by
relocating the ECU to under the passenger seat box. Niether place is 
particularly conducive to deep wading. I have a 94, and have been in 
water up to the door handles, with a corresponding amount on the inside.
Got pictures even, with water just below the bottom of the radio box,
and the car still running. But I took the precaution of sealing my ECU
into a Ziploc freezer bag with rubber bands before I went swimming. Sort
of a swimming cap to keep the hair dry kinda thing. I also turn off all other
electrical equipment and remove the fanbelt, to keep water off the distributor
,replacing it when past the deep stuff. It works, but it's only a short term
thing, how ofter do you wade deep water anyway, a couple times a year? Plus
if you use proper technique, and get a good bow wave going at about 5-7 mph,
you can wade up to about 30 in with not too much trouble, just don't stop
fer gossake. But to expect diesel engine wading ability out of an EFI engine
is asking for trouble. I do carry a spare ECU from a RR that was nabbed out of a 
wreck, works just fine. Also the question was asked about the turbo minding
a dunking, shock cooling and all that. Because it's a diesel, the temps involved
are not that high, and the turbo casing is plenty thick, Tdi's are just sweet
little powerplants aren't they?

Rgds 
Mike Fredette
94 D90 67 88" RHD
Phoenix, Az.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:43:42 -0800
From: vandecar@nwlink.com (Ted VanDecar)
Subject: D90 Undercoating Removal

The 94 D90, purchased used, is almost completely undercoated with a tough
black material. 
Frame, wheel wells, everything is covered.

Should the gunk be removed?  If so, how do we go about it?  Scrape,
chemical,... ? 
How about a commercial body repair shop?
Anyone successfully removed the stuff without damaging the galvanized frame?

Thanks and warm regards,

Ted Van Decar    <vandecar@nwlink.com>
'94 D90 Slo-Mo VI
Warm regards,

Ted

------------------------------

From: Mike Fredette~ <mfredett@sedona.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Disco's wading
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:44:58 +22305823 (MST)

 
 >position I would expect a snorkel to be in one of the shots.  I have not
 >seen wading/fording/whatever you call it gear adevrtised for the Disco.
 >Does it exist?
 Oh yes. Mantec Services in England makes snorkel kits for Disco's and other
 Rovers. I don't have their number here at work, but you'll probably find
 an advertismet from them in any old issue of LRO and possibly LRW.
 
	Mentec's number is (from the US anyway) 44 1203 395368
Ask for Sandra Young, she's very helpful, and has a wonderful sexy voice
to boot. I bought a snorkel kit for the D90, one of their first for
the NAS D90 actually. The product quality was great but there were
no fitting instructions so a bit of trial and error was in order.
The cost was L170.00 plus L45.85 for s/h. L215.85 which worked out
to about $345.00 US. Kinda spendy. I don't know about NAS Disco or
RR kit availability. 
 
 Rgds
Mike Fredette
94 D90 67 88" RHD
Phoenix, Az.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 10:54:34 PST
From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: RE: Subject: Safari Gard

Sorry Mark,

Looks like I got in just ahead of you.  My D90 is in to Safari Gard tomorrow
for 1.5 weeks worth of work.  I've been to Gregs shop and was vary 
impressed.  Most of his stuff is made to order and takes time.  I do 
know Greg lost about a week/week and half to illness earlier this month.  
My D90 work was pushed back a week then but he is living up to his 
revised schedule. 

I'll let you know how things are going with my D90.  I plan on picking it
up the 28th and heading out to do the Mojave Rd. from Gregs.  I'll have
email access on the 1st again and send a report on how the stuff all works.

I'm getting:

1) Winch mount bumper, my old X9000i installed in it
2) Rock Sliders
3) Front stearing gear skidplate
4) Front and rear diff protection plates
5) tie rod protection plates
6) rear ARB O (or U) seal repair
7) 3xHella 3000's
8) Dual Optimas
9) Bilstein shocks all around
10) Probably some work on CB and cell phone antenna mounts.

I'm definitly in the cautiously optimistic camp that it will all be done on 
time.  

-Rick

Richard Larson
LSI Logic Corporation
(408) 433-7149

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:33:13 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Carriage returns

For peoples information, in most mailers there is somewhere you can 
set the line width. As Steve R. said, 60-70 characters is usually a 
safe bet. Then you don't have to add a CR.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:24:12 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Wading in a Range Rover

In message <199512151712.MAA14005@butler.uk.stratus.com>  writes:

> Well now that it is winter the Range Rover is living up to its family
; reputation, "they all leak oil out and water in"  I just bought new tires so
> I will be ready when the ski areas in Tahoe open. I decided to swap the new
; spare with an old tire and buy one less.  When I took my spare out I found it
> was sitting in a small puddle of water.  Any tips where the water is coming
; from, sealing up the rear wheel well? Thanks
;
Drill a hole in the bottom of the spare tyre area to let the water out ;*)

TeriAnn

twakeman@apple.com

              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:30:42 -0800
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: Where are the diesels?

Mike Fredette asks:

> Tdi's are just sweet little powerplants aren't they?

And I ask whether anyone knows why we can't get them here in the US? It could save some of us 
considerable trouble with wading and with fuel consumption. Is it an emission thing? BTW, 
Mercedes no longer can sell diesels in California, even though they've developed a soot-reducing 
catalytic converter-style "afterburner."

-- 

Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 Beluga Black Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:36:13 -0800
From: russ burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: D90 Bonnet Doesn't Pop Open

I think filling the tire with helium might do the trick....
Or a hot air balloon assist.

At 11:27 AM 12/14/95 -0800, Ted VanDecar wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 32 lines)]
>Warm regards,
>Ted
Russ Burns
cisco/Ford
313-317-0451

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:28:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: A hardtop insulation & condensation killer question

On Fri, 15 Dec 1995, Bobeck, David R. wrote:

> Only available for about ten months in 1963, the Land-Rover-
> Ultra-Absorbent-Disposable-Headliner was an instant hit. 

	Damn, and I have a 1964.  Being a 109 sw I could have choped out 
	sections and sold it to people on the list for a fortune since
	my rood liner is generally quite frozen this time of year (145cm
	of snow thus far, we got 155cm in all of 1994).  [checking...
	double damn, the 88 is a '62!  Foiled again!]

> Some shops may still have some old stock laying around, but
> be prepared to pay through the nose. I'm not sure of the original part
> number. I suppose a make shift version could be made at home if you're
> handy with a needle and thread.

	Dave, surely you jest.  As you well know, phone Lanny at Rovers
	North and ask for the extra absorbant headliner option.  They
	will have the part number as well as a good stock.  Right now 
	it should be on special, considering it is the rainy season
	in some of their off-shore markets.  Canadian and American
	customers must wait until April and May for the special to
	be available here.  Forget the needle and thread route.  Go 
	genuine, phone Lanny and wish him the best for the holiday seasons
	while you are on the phone...

	Rgds,

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:19:53 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Popular Science

In message <199512151601.LAA13919@butler.uk.stratus.com> "John C. White, III" 
writes:
 
> Oh, TeriAnn.  Plushmobiles???  What is the current choice for Camel Trophy
; vehicles, rough and tumble Defenders or plushmobile Discoveries? 
;
John, I suspect the only reason the Camel trophy runs are done by Discos was 
because Rover insisted that they use them.  Discos are cheaper for them to build
& I understand that their margins are higher on Discos.  They probably started 
supplying Discos for this event purely to show the potential customers that 
plushmobiles can go offroad too.  With the kind of support the Camel Trophy cars
get, it could probably be run by a Ford Tarus.  Mind you it may be a year or 
more slower making it to the finish than the Discos.
;

> True, they
> had to rough the CT Discoveries up a bit (no air conditioning, no radio or
; CD player, and no espresso machine or Grey Poupon),
;
And I suspect special protection of the electronics...or are they powered by 
disels without all the electronics that are on the American spec car?
;
> but as you yourself
> point out, Discoveries are very capable off road,
;
I have indeed seen proof of Discos doing wonderous things off road but they 
still have minimal ground clearence for rocky mountainous terrain.  Mind you I'm
not making a value judgment on plushmobiles, except for the new Range Rover that
doesn't look like it would go half the places the classic will without  losing 
the ground effects baffeling and that low side step.
;
> yet you deride LRNA for marketing only plushmobiles with 
> the demise of the D90.
;
Well I think the D90 is the ultimate off road car marketed to civilians in any 
quantity.  I would like to see them continue to be available to Americans who 
need even more off road capability than the very capable Discos have.
;
; 
> Plushmobiles.  Hrmph!
> John
;
John you got a problem about plushmobiles?  I don't.  But im not interested in 
owning one ether.  I have a series Land Rover and Triumph TR3 by choice.  I 
don't own yuppi cars, plushmobiles or rice burners by personal choice.

TeriAnn

twakeman@apple.com

              
                         
                       

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Popular Science
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:36:06 -0800

>From: 	John C. White, III[SMTP:jcwhite3@well.com]

>Oh, TeriAnn.  Plushmobiles???  What is the current choice for Camel Trophy
>vehicles, rough and tumble Defenders or plushmobile Discoveries?  True, 
they
>had to rough the CT Discoveries up a bit (no air conditioning, no radio or
>CD player, and no espresso machine or Grey Poupon), 
WHAT!?!  No espresso machine! That's going way too far. I'm tearing up my 
application right now! :-) Boy, they aren't kidding when they say you have 
to be tough for the Camel Trophy. Driving for 2 weeks with no espresso? Gee, 
I don't think I'd last 2 days.
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU
with espresso machine and tongue-in-cheek.

------------------------------

From: Burwell2@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:52:45 -0500
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

..

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 15:03:19 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: D90 Undercoating Removal

To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

The 94 D90, purchased used, is almost completely undercoated with a tough
black material. 
Frame, wheel wells, everything is covered.
Sounds good, as long as its not cheap stuff that traps
          water.
            Should the gunk be removed?See above

                                           Anyone
          successfully removed the stuff without damaging
          the galvanized frame?
          Galvy frame on a D90? I doubt it. Take another
          look. Unless the original frame got so bad over
          the course of a year that it was replaced already.

          Respectfully,
          Dave Bobeck
          SIII 88 "Green Car"
          Non-Galvanised Frame

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:21:21 -0800
From: slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade)
Subject: D90 sighting

Embarrasing as it is I saw a video on MTV today that had a D90 in it.

The cool thing was that there were LOTS of other SUV's in it, Hummers,
G-wagens, Jeeps, and one other RR.  They were driving around in some city
in parade fashion with the D90 leading the whole pack.  I guess the
director and musician/star in the video knew which one was best. ;)

Oh, I'm photographing a few of the new D90 Station Wagons next week, and
was wondering if anyone wants to post the photos to any of the WWW pages.
Anything special anyone wants to see?

And, for the west coasters, the D90 at the salvage yard sold for 1500 to
the owner of said salvage yard.  He has a farm and wants to fix it up and
play.  Humph.

Maybe he can be talked out of it in a year or so.

Later,

Michael

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:27:07 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: SIIA lightweight for sale

Dear All,
        A gentleman named Mark Gaier called today. He wanted to sell me his
SIIA lightweight. He said it was in perfect shape with only 12,000 original
miles. I have never seen the Rover, nor do I know the owner, but thought
some of you may be interested. He is asking 10,000. dollars, and is in PA.
        Anyone interested should call him directly at 800.417.6627
        Happy Holidays.

Mike Smith, ECR

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:29:55 -0500
Subject: The Mojave Desert Tour - Dec. 30-Jan.1

For those of you looking for adventure and friendship during the holiday
period, there is a small group from CA (and one or two from AZ) headed out
for a weekend adventure.  The preliminary details are below.  If you want
additional details, please e-mail me directly at  gelam30092@aol.com.  

Dates:	Saturday Dec. 30 through Monday, Jan 1.
Meeting in Needles, California (On the I-40 by the Arizona/California
boarder).
    Needles has 3 exits, get off at the northern most one.  (the first one 
    if you are coming from the east.) (34d 51.6'N, 114d 45.0'W)  as you come
    off the ramp from east bound there are gas stations to your left.  We'll
    meet there.  (Needles is a small town anyway).  Get there before 10 a.m.
on
    Saturday the 30th.  (This exit might be named River Road)
Description of area to be traveled:  This will be about 120 miles of Mojave
Desert travel.  The only difficulty is with the sand near the end.  These
conditions could change in the event of rain.  There are no facilities for
camping other than what good old Mother Earth provides.   You’ll have to
provide your own shelter, food and drink although I may bring a box or two or
fresh, tasty Arizona oranges for the group!

At last count, 6-8 Land Rovers and their occupants  were going so you won’t
be alone!

Alternate meeting places along the route will be provided for those who are
chronologically challenged.   

If you want to drive over Friday , there are at least two of us camping in
the desert that night.    Again, e-mail for more information..

Gerry  Elam
Phoenix  AZ
gelam30092@aol.com

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Disco's wading
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:44:07 -0800

>The manual says 22 inches without any trouble.  I looked pretty closely at
>the Camel video and they have Disco's in water that is more than 22 inches.
As mentioned on other e-mail along this thread, CT Discos are Diesel and 
much less vulnerable to the wading problems thier petrol cousins are. I 
believe (I'll have to go and measure this tonight) that the magic 20-22" 
comes from the height of the ECU above the ground. Granted were water to get 
in to just below your ECU, it would have already drowned the CD player 
(driver's side) and Audio Amp (pass side) which are under the seat. Though, 
contrary to what some naysayers might have you believe, a Discovery should 
still drive even without the CD or Radio working :-)

>I would certainly presume that all of the computer bits should be somehow
>able to be protected if you about to wade your vehicle, but from the recent
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>have spares enough to reboot/rebuild the computer foo if I was in a real
>remote place.
I'd think that to carry a spare ECU, ABS and whatever else is behind the 
dash would certainly be expensive. All you really need in the Discovery is 
your cell-phone in a zip-lok baggie so you can call "road-side recovery" 
after you've dunked it :-) (That is until the warranty runs out)

>Finally, I presume that if I can't wade it, I could at least winch it
>across more than 24 inches?  (assuming an electric powered winch and a
>protected battery, and the engine was off)
That got me thinking, if you:
	a) disconnect the battery from the "electronics" but leave it connected to 
the winch for this example
	b) seal the air intake & exhaust (and ???) from water
	c) tow your Disco/D-90/ or what have you across the >24" water using the 
winch off of the battery or another vehicle/winch/block & tackle, etc.
	d) once on the other side let it dry out "THOUROUGHLY" and clean the connec  
tors to the ECU, etc (and what else???)
	e) un-waterproof the engine
	f) reconnect the battery
shouldn't it be OK? Granted this would be a very time consuming operation 
but probably not as time consuming as waiting for the new ECU to be 
air-dropped in to your remote location!  Knowing how long it takes for the 
computers , etc. to "dry-out" thouroughly could be tricky, depending on 
where you are. Looking at them, they look pretty well sealed, though. I was 
under the impression that the bulk of the ECU damage comes from the 
"confused" (i.e. inappropriate) electrical signals due to the connector 
getting wet, not the internal components getting wet. (no?) I wouldn't try 
this near salt water, though! And this would probably ruin the carpet. :-(

I think I'll stick to those big rafts they used in the Camel Trophy if the 
water is that deep. Do you think they fit on the roof rack? :-)

    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/     (still dry inside, so far...)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 21:59:17 -0600 (CST)
From: "Soren Vels Christensen" <velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: RE: wading of plushmobiles

In message Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:29:31 +22305823 (MST),
ading for you R/R and Disco types here in the US. The comparisons
> to the Camel Trophy vehicles are silly for the simple reason
> that they use Tdi engines. There are no engine managment chips to drown on
> these vehicles, indeed, no ignition system at all. At least not one

True enough, about the TDi. But one trial in Mundo Maya showed that the
Disco is not just an espresso machine with off road capabilities. When
crossing a river, 20 participants were to bring two Discos over with ropes
only. A picture in Bilmagasinet 11/95 (danish) shows the drill. On one car
you can only see the front part of the roof rack and the "Camel Trophy"
sign.

I'm not really defending (!(?)) the disco. I just wonder why the plush
pilots worry so much about buzzing radios, squeeking back doors and all
that.

rgds
sv/aurens (sIII)

------------------------------

Subject: do you own this vehicle?
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 17:28:51 -0500

I am trying to trace a Land Rover. Dont ask why!

The vehicle is a series 2a I believe, most likely a 109 but possibly an 
88" staion wagon. It has / had a safari roof to it. At one point it 
carried a North American licence plate "VAN 682". It is not known from 
which province / state it was registered in. 

Does anybody out there in NA know of this vehicle?

Rgds

Robin Craig

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 16:02:37 EST
From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben)
Subject: aux heater in a series truck

Dear Series owners:

Have you tried to make an aux. heater in the box under the driver's seat ?
Time to visit a junkyard for parts...

Jan

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: Squeaky Disco Brakes
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:03:58 -0800

I just got my Disco back from the dealer after taking it in for an oil 
change among other things. One of which was the periodic brake squeak. This 
must be very common since they handed me a 2-page story on squeky brakes. 
 In condensed form:

Cause:
Squeak is from glazing that results from frequent "light" application of the 
brakes.

Solution:
Tromp on the brakes instead. (well the exact wording was to use a "firm 
application  of the brakes") Wheee!
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/ "hold on while I apply the brakes"

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 22:57:33 -0500
Subject: Carb Icing & PCV systems?

Carb icing has been around from the beginning based on the service bulletin
below (From The Series One Club Newsletter, 9/95).
The bulletin indicates crankcase ventilation can contribute to icing, which
suggests that a malfunctioning PCV system may be a culprit.

Combustion produces lots of H2O, and any blowby will add water vapor to the
crankcase. The flow with PCV is supposed to be from the oil filler tube thru
the PCV valve into the intake manifold (not thru carb), and from the air
inlet to the rocker arm cover. If the PCV valve is blocked or removed (which
can increase blowby), but the hose from the rocker arm cover to air intake is
functioning, then the flow will reverse and the crankcase will vent thru the
rocker arm cover and then thru carb. The humid vapors going through the car
could contribute to icing.
Per Trevor’s suggestion a switch from the oil-bath air cleaner to a pancake
filter would eliminate this if the hose from the rocker arm cover to the air
inlet was removed at the same time.

The above is theoretical since I don’t have any personal experience, but
checking the PCV system may be worthwhile. If your PCV valve, etc is removed
or blocked, then you have a crankcase vent system similar to that described
in the bulletin. Either get the PCV valve functioning (preferable), or vent
the crankcase directly to atmosphere using the vented filler cap and rocker
arm cap. A short-term fix is per the bulletin.

Caveat: An accompanying note with the bulletin mentions that Rover switched
to a “free breathing” system in mid-’51 which eliminated the hoses. Rover
made a heated carb. optional on early SIIs before PCV, so the switch must not
have been the sole solution.

Internal Service Bulletin (Defect) No. 50021
January 1st, 1951

Models. 1948-51 LAND-ROVER

Complaint. Loss of engine powe, with black smoke issuing from the exhaust
pipe; sometimes the engine stops completely. The engine can be restarted if
it left stationery for five minutes.

Cause. Ice formation in the carburetter choke.

Remedy. (a) Raise the under bonnet temperature by blanking-off part of the
radiator grill panel, especially below the R.H. headlamp. By experimenting
with baffles of varying size a cure can usually be effected. If trouble is
still experienced:
(b) Disconnect the top rocker cover and crankcase breather pipes at the
carburreter intake elbow and allow them to breather to atmosphere: blank off
the two holes in the elbow by means of short lengths of rubber tuing plank at
one end with suitable plugs (i.e. bolts) and secured to the elbow with hose
clips.

Note 1. It is most important that the breather pipes are reconnected to the
carburretter elbow when warmer conditions return.

Note 2. Remedy (b) must not be used where a vehicle is operated under dusty
conditions: acure must be effected by blanking off the radiator

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 22:24:54 -0600
From: Marty Purselley <martypur@metronet.com>
Subject: Land Rover Experience

Is this part of the experience?  I noticed that my 1995 Discovery that 
was purchased new has two Vin numbers on it.  The plate on the dash is 
different from the one on the doors.  I bought this truck in February 
and the discrepency was brought to my attention when the insurance 
company told me that the vin was no good.  A trip to the dealer got a 
lot of guys scratching heads. None of them-not even LRNA could answer my 
question as to HOW this could happen.  I had to call LRNA (they didn't 
call me even after the dealership said they were working on the 
problem).  I could understand if this were some cheap domestic car, but 
this is Land Rover.  I suppose it is par-in less than a year the 
alternator has been replaced, the seals on the front axle replaced, a 
power steering leak was repaired, the front windshield had to be 
resealed due to water leakage, the air conditioning drain became 
clogged, the back gate had to be adjusted twice and the steering wheel 
needed grease to fix the moaning.  Have I enjoyed the Land Rover 
experience? So far I can't say that owning the Marque has been as much a 
pleasure as I thought it would be.  I suspect a lack of quality control.

------------------------------

Subject: Squeaky Disco Brakes
From: david@stat.com (David Dodell)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 21:35:11 MST

"Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com> writes:

> change among other things. One of which was the periodic brake squeak. This 
> must be very common since they handed me a 2-page story on squeky brakes. 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> Tromp on the brakes instead. (well the exact wording was to use a "firm 
> application  of the brakes") Wheee!

Interesting ... I just bought my 96 Disco in at 1000 miles for a oil
change and squeaky breaks ... they claimed that they spent 2.5 hrs
cleaning the rotors, cylinders and applying some special lube to prevent
the squeaking ... however on the drive home, noticed it squeaking again.

They claimed that they followed the CSB, has anyone heard anything
different?

David

---
Internet: david@stat.com                 FAX: +1 (602) 451-6135
WWW: http://www.stat.com/~david

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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