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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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From: Danny Phillips <danny@tlpgate.lonpar.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 9:55:19 GMT

index lro-digest

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:23:39 -0500
From: RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN)
Subject: 951213 Digest

         Subject digest only 1/3 complete. Please transmit
         (retransmit) entire digest. Get command also gets
         1/3 of this digest.

                            Thanks,
                            Rick
                            90 RR(the Money Pit)
                                  alias "BOHICA"

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:36:28 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Camel Trophy Report (US)

Kurt Reinhart writes:
Snip
> pre-selection two weeks ago. If you are interested I can post a small report
> about the tasks ;-)
>  now the adress...
> http://www.4x44u.com/pub/k2/am4x44u/whats_new/whats_new.htm

I took a look at the page and what did I find? The Turtle Expedition, 
the traitors!
For those of you who don't know, the Turtle Expedition began their 
South & Central America expedition in a '67 NADA 109 converted to the 
Chevy six. They used to sing the praises of LR then, when they found 
that they could get their travels paid for by corporate sponsors, they 
got a Chevy then a Ford. When they made the original switch to the 
Chevy, Gary Wescott (who reports on the Camel Trophy event) started 
ragging on LR's. If you go back and read his magazine articles it's quite 
interesting the number of falacies he states about LR's. It's no 
wonder he had problems if he knew as little about them as it appears 
in the articles. Grrrrr.
Sorry for the rant.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:57:00 -0500
From: michelbe@praline.net (Michel)
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest does it again

> I don't know what happened but I only got portions of the list on dec 10th
and december 13th. Could someone on the net be kind enough to mail me the
complete lists of these two days. It would be very appreciated.

Thank you

Michel Bertrand
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada

1963 IIA 109 PU (Rudolph)
1968-9 IIA 109 SW-Nada (in the works)
1973 III 88 (21st century project)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:06:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Rob Bailey <baileyr@cuug.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Andrew Balser

On Wed, 13 Dec 1995 Andrew Balser wrote:

> Say, who is this wierdo who supposes he will find a good, solid   
> working, happy  series for under $2,000.00?  I want some of the drugs he
> is on!!  Not that one  can't find a great little freaker '88 for under  
> $5,000, but that is a significant jump in price.

It sounds to me like you have plenty of cheap drugs already... If you   
sober up long enough, you can come and look at my 88. I've seen several
other friends' LR's that have been had for considerably less than
$5000US. Maybe its just a case of a lack of Land Rovers where you're
located (Alaska, come on, think about it! Besides, not everybody lives in 
the States). In fact there is a '70 88 S/W in the Calgary Bargain Finder for 
$1800CDN, and every few weeks one or two LR's are listed there. I have no 
idea what kind of shape there in, but if you dismiss them based solely on 
price, that's your your loss, they could be a real deals!

Rob

BTW, a good twelve step program might be in order, unless you're still in 
the denial stages...

------------------------------

Subject: Koenig winch parts, Ser II
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 09:15:32 -0500
From: Ron Franklin <oldhaven@biddeford.com>

-- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Could anyone help me with my rebuild of the Koenig winch on my '59 ser II
pickup ?  This is the model which is driven from the front of the crankshaft
, allowing the use of an overdrive at the same time.  (model lr-591,controls
at winch; or lr-591, cab controls).  Mine is the cab control model, but i
could use the pieces for lr-591 as well.  what I need is the casting which
holds the drum clutch and all the attached levers and parts, mine having
been wiped out by a PO.  Also missing are the operating levers and linkages,
and here is where either type would be useful.  I could fabricate all of
this but would rather spend my efforts elsewhere.  The rest of the winch is
in good shape, and worth the effort. If someone has a parts winch I could
buy some pieces from, it would be just the berries.  Actually the clutch
drum lever ,brake, pin, and some of the small parts are the same as those on
the Koenig L621 PTO winch.  I have the original parts and owners manuals for
all of these winches and can supply the parts numbers if that helps.
On another subject, another difference in early ser II's which is obvious
from the outside by omission is the lack of the horn normally visible
through the grill.  A much larger horn is used which is mounted in the right
wing near the firewall.  The wiring harness is also much different on early
ser II's as my 59 and 61 have entirely different harnesses, the 61 being
nearly identical to a IIA's.
Just curious, has anyone any experience with putting a Cummins 4BT in a
Series Rover, as this is my current project, and it involves a lot of
creative engineering.  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:17:19 -0700 (MST)
From: Rob Bailey <baileyr@cuug.ab.ca>
Subject: Digest Version is really screwed up...

Does anybody know what the deal is with the list server? Previously, 
it was every once in a while that the digest would get screwed up, but 
lately its been commonplace. Should all of the digest mode subscribers 
change over to the Real-Time list? I can't imagine that helping things 
too much, but it is very frustrating (to say the least) to miss 95% of 
the messages from a particular day. If anybody has any ideas, please 
respond to the list AND email, as it's been quite rare lately to receive 
the entire digest.

Rob

------------------------------

From: ey-postmaster@geis.com
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 13:36:00 UTC 0000
Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

GE Item Number: 7565994
Original Msg Id: 490646
ey-postmaster response to your message

    Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
    System:  C14A#
    Date:    Wed 13-Dec-95 13:36

Status: 7   Message picked up by receiving system and not delivered to
            any recipients because of various exception conditions.

Address Delivered To:
   KESSELS.BILL@OTT01
Address Status Message:
   This address does not exist at C14A#

------------------------------

Date: 13 Dec 1995 10:30:35 -0500
From: "Bill Skidmore" <skidmore@mitre.org>
Subject: MajorDomo Bitten by Joe Lucas!

OK, what's going on today!

6 out of thirty messages transmitted in the end-of-day recoup?

Are the near-real-time subscribers having the same problems?  If not, I =
may as well try my luck with the real-time list!

On a different note - anyone have used bench or rear, inward-facing jump =
seats that they'd like to part with?  I've looked over the NAS D90 SW jump =
seats, and they appear to be the same as the 110's, but I can't find any =
significant difference between them and the 88"'s jump seats to justify =
the cost difference (+US$200 for the 110's/90's, based on RN and AB =
quotes, versus the 110's replacement cost, which didn't include seat =
belts).

Further, on the fit and finish of the NAS D90 SW - LRNA now taking lessons =
on inside trim from Chevrolet?  There's more plastic trim inside than I've =
seen on many other cars, reminds me of a cheap domestic pickup truck; =
definitely mixed signals - trying to make the D90 as civilized as the =
Disco or Rangy!  Darn thing even has carpeting all over (I can imagine =
what mud and creek fording will do to that after a few years!).

Bill Skidmore
94 D90 (40+ miles, dirty, scratched and proud of it!)

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re:D90 SW
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 8:01:13 PST

> Further, on the fit and finish of the NAS D90 SW - LRNA now taking lessons =
> on inside trim from Chevrolet?  There's more plastic trim inside than I've =
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
> Bill Skidmore
> 94 D90 (40+ miles, dirty, scratched and proud of it!)
Ya but you can almost justify buying one for the wife.
Russ Burns
91 Range Rover (77K miles dirty, scratched and dented)
94 D-90 (38K also dirty, scratched and dented)
95 D90 SW on order for the wife....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:20:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Donald Unger <ungerd@ucs.orst.edu>
Subject: Military Land Rovers for SALE

Lion Hearted Vehicles here in Oregon has Shorland MKIII APVs and 101s for 
sale. Contact Greg Cash, Lionhearted Vehicles (Fax/Phone 541-946-1611) 
for details. I am not affiliated in any way with the 
company.                                                                                                                                              Don Unger 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:01:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Larry James <lcj@aa.net>
Subject: subscribe

subscribe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:16:35 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: NAS D90 "Plastic" Top - Additional Parts?

I'm planning on getting one of the dealer plastic hardtops for the D90 
in a few months.  I was hoping someone with a '94 D90 can tell me what 
additional parts or changes might be required to mount the hard top. I 
seem to recall that there were some peculiarities about the rear door 
that needed to be changed on the '94 compared to the '95.  Didn't the 
door lock or handle change or something like that?

TIA

Cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:36:59 -0800
From: slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade)
Subject: Re: Military Land Rovers for SALE

I called them this morning, and the fax # is just a regular phone.  I tried
to send a fax, but the guy picked up instead.

So, I talked w/him for about 5 minutes.

He's got 1 (one) 101 coming from England in a container and should be here
around February.  I've been down this road before (see: Roverworks), so am
real leary of an operation like this.  However, if you're interested in a
101 it might be worth a call.

I'm sending him a copy of the LRO list as he's on e-mail.

His address BTW is:

MILVEH@aol.com

Good luck.  I may go down to see it when/if it ever gets here.

Later,

Michael

------------------------------

Subject: Popular Science
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 13:30:25 -0500
From: Gary Mitchelson <garym@cais.cais.com>

-- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

In the Jan '96 issue of Popular Science there is a brief write up on the new
Jeep Cheeroke and the have an interesting note, PS says "The grand Cherokee
thus follows the trend away from all-out ruggedness in high-priced SUV's"

Don't let LR know they aren't trendy!

--
Gary Mitchelson     
N3JPU     
garym@racalrecord.com     
Racal Recorders, Inc.     

------------------------------

From: Mike Fredette~ <mfredett@sedona.intel.com>
Subject: Re: NAS D90 "Plastic" Top - Additional Parts?
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:58:31 +22305823 (MST)

> I'm planning on getting one of the dealer plastic hardtops for the D90 
> in a few months.  I was hoping someone with a '94 D90 can tell me what 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> door lock or handle change or something like that?
> Jeremy

	The changes needed have nothing to do with the rear door per say.
The 95 models have a lockable (with a key) rear door but the 94's do not.
So you need to replace the rear latch assy with a new keyed one or face
the prospect of clibming over the seats each time you want lock or unlock 
the rear. The more serious aspect is that they changed the angle of the
dangle, as it were, of the rear roll cage support on the 95's. It attaches
to the bed rail a bit (2 in) farther back than the 94. This means you get
to cut/hack a new notch in the new hardtop since the notch already there is
in the wrong locale. Also, the 95s have the rivnuts for attaching the top
already installed in the bed rails while the 94's don't, this means drilling 
a dozen or so 8mm holes and installing said rivnuts. There is a retro fit kit
that contains the rivnuts, and a cute little piece o plastic to cover up the 
unsightly notch left over for the low low bargain basement price of $84.00.
Just buy the hard top and order the rivnuts from RN for a nickle or so each
and build your own piece o plastic. I've had mine on for a year now, no leaks
and much quieter than the soft top, a bit fragile though. I crunched it pretty 
good on a tree while screwing up the line on a nasty side slope.

Rgds
Mike Fredette
94 D90 
67 88 RHD
Phoenix Az, soon to be Portland again 

------------------------------

Subject: sub $1000. land rovers
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:04:24 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@OpenMarket.com>

abalser@merlin.salrm.alaska.edu (Andrew Balser) writes:
    
>   Say, who is this wierdo who supposes he will find a good, solid, working, h
>  appy  series for under $2,000.00? 

Well, lets see, my IIA is in great shape and it cost me just under $1000.

Then there was a rear cross member w/ extentions, a gas tank outrigger,
a set of 16" LWB wheels, a spare diff, another spare diff, with axle case,
an engine, a safari SW top, a tail gate, a tailgate top, tail gate fixings,
mud sheilds, ignition parts, genuine brake parts (near all of 'em), genuine
clutch parts (most of 'em), steering parts (some of 'em), the odd genuine
gasket (lots of 'em), a battery  and a wee bit o' labour). Some dosh for
the shipping company, some more for the docks and a bit for customs.

So to date my sub-$1000. Land Rover only has chewed a hole about about
six times bigger in my pocket, and I've only had it in my possession for
a total of 10 days driven it four times (another month in a container and
another 10 days at my mechanic's in Berkhamstead before it was shipped).
    
> I want some of the drugs he is on!!

	I dare say you can't afford to do drugs if you own an old Rover.

> Not that one can't find a great little freaker '88 for under $5,000, but
> that is a significant jump in price. 

	Well, not really :-)

Anyone one interested in a solid-sided top for an 88" (after I assemble my
safari top that is).

    Cheers,
	--bill	caloccia@openmarket.com		http://www.senie.com/billc/

   R  1  3  2wd  H           "Land Rover's first, because
   +--|--|   o   |            Land Rovers last."
      2  4  4wd  L            '63 SIIa 88"  - '72 & '90 Range Rover

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:10:28 -0500
From: benedick@emh1.pa.net (Darwyn/Kris Benedict)

Hi all fellow squeakers:

Well, it's been a pleasant 5 weeks or so.  My Disco. was in for it's 6th
trip in 13 months for a squeak in the steering col.  My dealer could not get
the revised part (nylon bushing) at the time and did his own new fix.
Something about slightly repositioning the boot at the firewall, and so far
so good.  Today, the service mgr. called to tell me the part was in, when
did I want to have it installed?  I told to put it on hold.  (If it does
squeak, I now know the home remedy:thanks Stuart W.) Anyhow, He told me
that, he has been doing this little "trick" on all the Disco.'s that enter
the shop and it's taken care of most (if not all) of them.

Now, for all of you that still are having this problem and want more
details, I will referre you to my Service Mgr. at our dealer.  e-mail me
direct if you want the name and phone.  Benedick@pa.net

Of course, after writting this, I will go knock on some wood.

Squeak & Lovin my rover-Life in a rover can be good! Really good!

Kris-94 White Disco. "Thumper"

------------------------------

From: "Gerald" <g@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:19:06 -0500
Subject: 96 shop manuals

Anyone have a source for 96 shop manuals for Discos? Metro West says
that they won't be in for a while. Do they exist yet for any 96 
LR products, NAS or otherwise?

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:47:15 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Popular Science

In message <199512131835.NAA10666@butler.uk.stratus.com> Gary Mitchelson writes:

> In the Jan '96 issue of Popular Science there is a brief write up on the new
; Jeep Cheeroke and the have an interesting note, PS says "The grand Cherokee
> thus follows the trend away from all-out ruggedness in high-priced SUV's"
; 
> Don't let LR know they aren't trendy!

That they are NOT trendy????

Ever look at the new Range Rover??  Those cars were never ment for off road 
driving.  The side steps and front valance would hang up in no time.  I asked 
the dealer about this once.  He said that they were told that the purchaser will
never take these cars off roading.  They are ment to take people to ski lodges 
in style.

While the Discos are very off road capable, they were designed to take only 
small diameter  tyres and have those plastic dohickies on the sides just aching 
to be broken.

All out ruggidness?  Just look at the interiors and the questions people have 
been asking on the net about CD changers, automatic sunroffs & such.  See what 
happens when you take a new Range Rover of Disco wading in 2 or 3 feet of water

They took the D90 off the US market for '96 leaving trendy plush statusmobiles.

TeriAnn

twakeman@apple.com

              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:39:00 -0800
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Popular Science

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
 
> They took the D90 off the US market for '96 leaving trendy plush statusmobiles.

When I bought my '95 Discovery, I would have preferred a hardtop Defender 90. But I live in the 
area of some of the highest yearly precipitation in Southern California and so can't drive 
convertibles. The hardtop version of the D90 wasn't available at the time and would have cost 
more than my Discovery in any case.

If Land Rover weren't so afraid of losing their flash image, they might have put a basic Land 
Rover into their lineup. I could have saved myself several thousand dollars and gotten better 
off-road performance besides.

BTW, with the first rains of the winter this morning, my Discovery has begun to leak, apparently 
out of the left rear speaker housing. Wasn't there a post on this a couple of months ago? Perhaps 
I should have bought a soft top Defender after all and carried a few towels. 8-)

-- 

Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:40:34 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Major woes

Once again, a truncated message...30+ replies to the digest, but only the 
first five and a portion of the 6th (from johnliu@earthlink.net) got posted 
out.  Can any real-timers detect any similarities between the 6th message of 
12/13 and the first message of the 12/10 digest.  "Doctor Watson...come 
quickly...."
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:40:45 -0600
From: William Owen <ib011ca@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us>
Subject:  Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions

   I've started looking for a 87-90 (maybe even a 91 if I wait a few
months) Range Rover.  Currently drive a 88 Cherokee and am ready for a
more serious and capable off road vehicle.  I love the disco but can't
afford a new one ( yet!).  This will be a daily driver as well as off road
vehicle.  It will see snow, muddy fields and trails, and creek and ditch
crossings.  Probably not much rock hopping, but one never knows.

   I know the D90 and Disco have locking center diffs and open rear diffs. 
The newer RR don't seem to have even locking center diffs but do have
Traction control.  I am guessing that Traction Control involves the anti lock
brake system, but am not sure.  The dealer only says it "puts power to all
four wheels" - not real helpful.  I also don't believe TC was available on
the older models I'm considering. 

   In addition, I am somewhat concerned about the open rear diff and
whether this will affect performance and traction.  I have read that it
doesn't matter in a RR and am sold on the RR over all, just looking for a
little reassurance as to the effect of open rear diffs on traction, especially
in snow and mud.  Sure would hate to see a Cherokee with LSD have to
pull me out.  So . . . 
   
   What is traction control and is it available on the older RR I'm
considering?  

   Should I be concerned about the lack of locking center diffs and the
open rear diffs?  especially as it relates to snow and mud traction.

  Is there any other advice anyone can give me as I search for my RR? 
Things to look for or to avoid.  I've heard 89 is better than 87-88.  True?

   Thanks in advance for all your help.
       A hopefully soon to be Range Rover owner

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:35:14 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Wading In RR (was: "Trendy?")

A post by TerriAnn got me wondering . . . what does happen if you wade a Range Rover in water past the bottom door sills?  Does it fill up with water, ruin your CD player, make your plush carpets soggy, and spot your loafers?  Or are the doors sealed to hold up against immersion?  (Not being sarcastic -- I really want to know since I'm considering a Range Rover purchase.)

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Popular Science
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:19:22 -0800

>From: 	Christopher Boese[SMTP:cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us]

>When I bought my '95 Discovery, I would have preferred a hardtop Defender 
90. But I live in the 
>area of some of the highest yearly precipitation in Southern California and 
so can't drive 
>convertibles. The hardtop version of the D90 wasn't available at the time 
and would have cost 
>more than my Discovery in any case.
You're not complaining about your Disco, now, are you? Though, I have to 
confess, that I've secretly thought about trading mine for a Hard-Top D-90 
since it has the back seats and all......

>If Land Rover weren't so afraid of losing their flash image, they might 
have put a basic Land 
>Rover into their lineup. I could have saved myself several thousand dollars 
and gotten better 
>off-road performance besides.
I doubt that it's anything like that. My guess is that since LR only sells 
such a small number of cars in the North American market (relatively 
speaking) it only makes economic sense to sell the Hi-end (i.e. High Margin) 
units. The "mystique" of being a status symbol makes it that much easier to 
charge "full" price.
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Major woes 
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:21:41 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@OpenMarket.com>

>   Once again, a truncated message...30+ replies to the digest, but only the 
>   first five and a portion of the 6th (from johnliu@earthlink.net) got posted
    
>   out.  Can any real-timers detect any similarities between the 6th message o
   f 
>   12/13 and the first message of the 12/10 digest.  "Doctor Watson...come 
>   quickly...."
    

Hi y'all,

	Well, I looked at a case the other day, but was unable to detect 
the source of the problem - and part of that might be because the real-timers
messages are 'digested' individually, though by a slightly different script
(the script that does the daily digest is a bit more complicated as it
deals with multiple messages and has to re-start at the start of the next
message, etc.)

	So, there are no apparent goofy things that the real-time folks
receive. 

	Cheers,
	-B
    

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 07:20:28 +0800 (WST)
From: TONY YATES  <tonyy@waalpha.wa.BoM.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions

Regarding centre diff lock:
the newer Range Rovers have a viscous coupling in place of the original 
manually locked centre diff.  This is in effect an automatically locking 
centre diff, ie allows differential action up to a point, similar to the 
torque converter in an automatic tranny. AFAIK much superior to the 
original set up as it is simpler and more reliable.

Regarding traction control and open diffs:
the electronic traction control (ETC), employs sensors which detect 
wheelspin and apply brakes to that wheel via the ABS, thereby 
transferring torque to the wheel that isn't spinning.  A nice idea but 
to me it seems a bit gimmicky and prone to problems. I would much rather 
see some sort of locking diff instead.  For some reason Land Rover seem 
to resist the idea of locking diffs, relying on superior axle travel to 
keep them ahead of the competition.  Best bet is to chuck in a set of ARB 
air lockers.

Cheers.

====================================================================
                                      _____________________
                                     /_____________________\
Tony Yates                          |                       |
                                    |                       |
Port Hedland                     _  | _________ _ _________ |  _
Western Australia               |-| |[_________] [_________]| |-|
                                |_|  -----------------------  |_|
                                   \|  \ =============== /  |/
A.Yates@bom.gov.au                   =======================
                                    |o  _ |===========| _  o| 
Opinions expressed                 /|  (_)|===========|(_)  |\
here are almost but                ||o____|===========|____o||
not quite entirely                 ||_______________________||
unlike those of the                \[_______________________]/
Bureau of Meteorology.              |\|/|---\_/---------|\|/|
                                    |\|/|               |\|/|
                                    -----               -----
=====================================================================
                    

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 10:29:58 EST
From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff)
Subject: Re:  Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions

Others may be able to answer this better, but,
in the time period between locking centre diffs and Traction control
existed the Viscous Coupling.

For those who don't know them, a Viscous coupling acts like an open diff
under normal conditions, but automatically and gradually locks up when
a predetermined degree of slip is encountered. Never looked at one closely
but have read that they are about the size of a jam tin, full of closely
spaced plates with a special fluid between them, which I think is supposed to
increase dramatically in viscosity when subjected to shear. (Classified as
a non-Newtonian fluid in fluid mech), thus locking up the input & output of
the jam tin.

Regards

James Carley
Sydney Australia
'85 110

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Ruggedness...
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:14:18 +1030 (CST)

TeriAnn writes the depressing truth:
 
> All out ruggidness?  Just look at the interiors and the questions people
> have  been asking on the net about CD changers, automatic sunroffs & such.
> See what happens when you take a new Range Rover of Disco wading in 2 or 3
> feet of water  

How about after wading in 2 - 3 metres.  These new vehicles would be basket
cases....  At least with the old series (and to a certain extent the base
D90's and 110"s) jobbies all you had to do was find a good fire hose.  Mind
you getting the "tide mark" out of the hood lining takes time...  Still if I
just leave it covered in dust no one notices.

I suppose this is the price we have to pay for our kidneys lasting longer :-(

cheers

-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:40:29 -0800
From: cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson)
Subject: 2.25 Black cleaning

Well the time has come to clean and start rebuilding my engine.
My questions are:

- How and with what do I clean the block? I have all the freeze plugs 
  out and I also want to clean the water and oil ways.
- How do I know if the cam bearings need replacing? Mine
  look pretty scratched up. 
- Should I take out the soft pipe plug at the front of the fuel
  pump side?
- What, if any sealant should I used when I reinstall the plugs?

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanx, 73

Chris Youngson, VE7CST
West Vancouver, BC
1965 109

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Ruggedness...
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:23:07 -0800

I think you could pretty much kiss your ECU good bye on the V8i engines (the 
kind found here in the states) after a 3 meter (10'!!!) or even a 2 meter 
wading episode. Not to mention the driver unless they are SCUBA equipped! 
The lack of an ignition system is a powerful advantage to the Diesel engine 
over the gas (petrol) engine when it comes to submersion.

Q: is the fuel injection on the 3.0 TDi Electronic or Mechanical? The lack 
of all that electronic wizardry would seem to be an advantage in the "wild".
Q: doesn't the Turbo object to being dunked in water (shock cooling, etc)

----------
From: 	dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au[SMTP:dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au]
Sent: 	Wednesday, December 13, 1995 3:44 PM
Subject: 	Re: Ruggedness...

TeriAnn writes the depressing truth:
 
> All out ruggidness?  Just look at the interiors and the questions people
> have  been asking on the net about CD changers, automatic sunroffs & such.
> See what happens when you take a new Range Rover of Disco wading in 2 or 3
> feet of water  
How about after wading in 2 - 3 metres.  These new vehicles would be basket
cases....  At least with the old series (and to a certain extent the base
D90's and 110"s) jobbies all you had to do was find a good fire hose.  Mind
you getting the "tide mark" out of the hood lining takes time...  Still if I
just leave it covered in dust no one notices.

    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

From: Simon Barclay <sbar@jna.com.au>
Subject: RE: Wading In RR (was: "Trendy?")
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 11:29:00 EST

I have had fairly extensive 'experience' with water and mud over the door 
sills and even water over the bonnet (without a cover over the grill to keep 
it out of the engine in one instance) (in both two and four door Range 
Rovers and series LR's) and have never had any getting in (in RR's).

One thing worth checking (on older models in particular) is that where 
cabling is running through the bulkhead grommets, they have a liberal 
coating of water sealant of some sort.  And of course ensure all the bungs 
are in place in the floor and around the gearbox housing.

Windows closed and  fan on (fresh air, not recirculated) can help 
"pressurise" the cabin as well!! - this can make escape difficult if you 
fall into a hole.  Make sure you walk the route first!

One particular trip in 1979 (in a s111 109)  we drove for two days with 
water over the top of the gear box after flash flooding in the north east of 
South Australia!!!  It would squirt up from the pedals when you changed gear 
or braked, sloped out of the gear shift gaiter... great fun. It was like 
being in a moving bath - as it was pretty warm water in November.  Had to 
sleep in it too - watching the brown snakes looking for dry ground - very 
comforting.

Generally the more recent models ('80 onwards are pretty good)!

Oh - don't forget to put the wading plug in the bellhousing!

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------  
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Simon Barclay
Sydney Australia

'90 5 sp RR
'51 Series 1 (Louie)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:39:29 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Wading In RR

John, 

In the interest of objective scientific inquiry, I'd suggest that you 
acquire a representative Range Rover sample and conduct some rigorous 
testing at different depths and exposure times.  You can ignore such 
variables as stream flow velocities.  Jim Russell can verify that 
exposure time and depth can vary directly with flow 8^)  

Just hypothetically, I'd expect that a quick trip through a stream 
depth of 2 feet or so would result in minimal inflows.  I'd be inclined to 
avoid prolonged soaking on the assumption that there will be some places 
that are not perfectly sealed, and that the water will quickly find those 
places.  In addition, there is the minor question of just how waterproof 
the Lucas electrical system is on one of these pampered plush-mobiles.

I plan to do some testing of my own this winter and if it doesn't work out
favorably I'm sure we'll all hear about it from whoever I've conned into
going with me on the fateful trip. 

Walt

              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover              * 
              * Davis, California       | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, John Y. Liu wrote:

> A post by TerriAnn got me wondering . . . what does happen if you wade a
Range Rover in water past the bottom door sills?  Does it fill up with
water, ruin your CD player, make your plush carpets soggy, and spot your
loafers?  Or are the doors sealed to hold up against immersion?  (Not
being sarcastic -- I really want to know since I'm considering a Range
Rover purchase.)
 

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Popular Science
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:47:43 -0800

>All out ruggidness?  Just look at the interiors and the questions people 
have 
>been asking on the net about CD changers, automatic sunroffs & such.  See 
what 
>happens when you take a new Range Rover of Disco wading in 2 or 3 feet of 
water
Been there, done that. (well only up to 2') The Disco seemed to be a lot 
less nervous about it than the driver (and owner, me) was, Granted, if water 
started to seep inside, there'd be some sparks flying. Come on, lighten up. 
Is there anything wrong with 4-wheeling while riding in air-conditioned 
luxury, enjoying the view through the automatic sunroof while listening to 
the "sound's of nature" on the CD? (and, of course, sipping our latte's 
while eating Cheese & Crackers with liberal portions of Grey Poupon!)  

I'll admit, that it's something like "roughing it" in a 40' Motor home :-)
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

              
                         
                       

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Wading In RR (was: "Trendy?") 
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 19:50:58 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@OpenMarket.com>

>   A post by TerriAnn got me wondering . . . what does happen if you wade a Ra
>  nge Rover in water past the bottom door sills?  Does it fill up with water, 
>  ruin your CD player, make your plush carpets soggy, and spot your loafers?  

Actually, the Previous OWners had the interior cleaned and that left the
plush carpets soggy.  And the foam behind the felt over the transmission 
tunnel, and the foam behind the rubber under the plush carpets. (Actually
that sh*t released the glue holding the foam to the rubber matts !)

So I ripped out all the foam and felt and plush carpets and then finished
wiring the cell phone and put the rubber matts and those keen tyre-tread
matts back in place.  I'd consider putting some carpeting back in, but
it'd be too much effor to clean it out, and by the time it is warm enough
to think about it, it probably will have disintegrated from the cleaner
stuff in it.

>  Or are the doors sealed to hold up against immersion?  (Not being sarcastic 
>  -- I really want to know since I'm considering a Range Rover purchase.)

Gee, I haven't taken one for a swim yet, but you'll know pretty fast, 'cause
the first thing to get soaked (even before the CD player) is the ABS computer
(under the drivers seat) and the electric seat motors.

    Cheers,
	--bill	caloccia@OpenMarket.com		http://www.senie.com/billc/

      1  3 R  dl OD  L           "Land Rover's first, because
      |--|-+  o  |   |            Land Rovers last."
      2  4    ul N   H           '72 & '90 Range Rover

------------------------------

From: EvanD103@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 20:06:11 -0500
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Only got the first five of thirty postings of the digest today.  What's going
on?  I'm having withdrawl symptoms!

Erik van Dyck
Stone Mountain, Georgia
1973 Ser III 88"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:22:57 +0800 (WST)
From: TONY YATES  <tonyy@waalpha.wa.BoM.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: Wading In RR

Shortly after I bought my 110 V8 I decided to test it's wading ability in 
a small puddle, about 2.5ft deep and 30ft long on a track near Windy 
Harbour.  As soon as I entered the water the engine started to sputter 
and die.  Luckily I just made it to the other end and didn't have to get 
my feet wet, not that I mind getting wet, more the embarrasment I was 
worried about.

As soon as I got home I waterproofed the ignition with silicone.

Shortly after I was transferred to Darwin and the next water crossing I 
attempted had a very large sign next to it warning of the local 
infestation of large salt water crocodiles.  This crossing was deeper and 
wider so it was a real case of fingers crossed...

Anyway it worked; I seem to remember reading somewhere that the V8 is 
specially designed so that the front pulley sprays water directly on to 
the distributor; neat.

I also read somewhere of a chap in the UK who waterproofs his distributor 
with spray on polystyrene foam!

This is only vaguely relevant to the thread of the discussion..

Cheers. Tony.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 17:32:37 -0800
From: "Nick C. Baggarly" <nick@ablecom.net>
Subject: Wanted

Hi

I'm partially restoring a Dormobile 109SW and am looking for the following...

+ original cabinet (This is a dormobile item only. Rare, I know).

+ door panel- Front right upholstered in rhino hide

+ 1/2 roof rack (fits over the cab area only) with tension clamps
  (I'm especially looking for these clamps with the big tension screw knob)

+ like new headliner

Contact me if you have, or know where I can pickup, any of these items.

Thanks!

 Nick C. Baggarly
'66 SIIA 88 (Seymour)  '64 Dormobile
 Los Gatos, Cale

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: wading ad infinitum..
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 12:20:17 +1030 (CST)

> Granted, if water started to seep inside, there'd be some sparks flying.
This is the crux of the problem,  In some places its not a matter of if, but
when and how deep.  Unless you are *very* heavily laden there may come a time
when the vehicle wants to float, (eg Reynolds river crossing in Litchfield
park NT Oz.)  If you hope to continue some water *must* enter the car to reduce
the bouyancy.  At the reynolds its usually about 3-4" over the drivers floor
and 1-2" across the rear load bay on a sIII 109 wagon before you get full
traction again.  Now I know that early 2dr rangies could get away with only
an inch or so over the front floor, the long droop on the suspension mops up
the rest..  I dont know how the new rangies and disco go, never been there
when one drove through nor have I seen one stuck so they must make it OK.

> Come on, lighten up. 
> Is there anything wrong with 4-wheeling while riding in air-conditioned 
> luxury, enjoying the view through the automatic sunroof while listening to 
> the "sound's of nature" on the CD? (and, of course, sipping our latte's 
> while eating Cheese & Crackers with liberal portions of Grey Poupon!)  

Absolutely nothing wrong with riding in comfort (I'm just jealous really), I
just dont like the idea of any vital and/or expensive electronic gizmos below
about the level of the seat base in vehicles that are going to be used for
deep extended water crossings.  Call me a reactionary....

-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:24:08 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Popular Science

On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, Christopher Boese wrote:
(snip)

> I should have bought a soft top Defender after all and carried a few 
towels. 8-) 
 
Dear Chris:

My D-90 is two years old and hardly leaks at all with the soft-top on. If 
it sits in the rain so that water collects on the top, then water will 
run off the top as you're getting in (weight shifting) and this water 
sometimes gets inside. Otherwise, it is great in the rain.

I have gotten drenched on those occasions when it rains or pours and the 
Land Rover is *topless*.....And I keep towels under the dash for wiping off 
the inside of the windshield when driving under those conditions

Best wishes from ..... Seattle.

David
'94 D90 (turns two in two weeks!)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:29:29 +0800 (WST)
From: TONY YATES  <tonyy@waalpha.wa.BoM.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: wading ad infinitum..

Ever since reading about all the electronic gismos in the new RR I have 
had this recurring vision:

The scene: midway up the Canning Stock Route, (Great Sandy Desert), a 
summer storm, a lightning strike nearby, the RR motor dies as the engine 
management chip fuses into a little useless blob, the RR settles gently 
on it's electronic air suspension with a slight hiss, the AC cuts out, 
 AC/DC on the CD player are cut off in mid scream, you can't open the 
windows, the security system goes into terminal overload and permanently 
locks the doors, the electronic seat controls, in a dying spasm, shove 
the seat forward and trap you against the steering column,.....silence 
descends,.....the temperature starts to rise,....

Two months later you are discovered. With a last dying gasp from the 
battery a message is scrolling across the diagnostic display....
check driver.........check driver........check driver.......

Happy thoughts.  #;-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:30:54 -0500
From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas)
Subject: Re: 2.25 Black cleaning

Chris Youngson wrote,
>Well the time has come to clean and start rebuilding my engine.
>My questions are:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>- How do I know if the cam bearings need replacing? Mine
>  look pretty scratched up. 

Chris, there is virtually no other way to be sure the oil and water passages
are clear unless you take the block to a machine shop equipped with a
boiling tank and have it done.  This is not expensive and very much worth
the money.  If you're installing a new camshaft, then I would definitely
change the bearings out if they appear that scratched. If you're putting the
old one back in, and there isn't excessive play in the shaft, then I
wouldn't worry about it too much.  Probably get years of service.

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Canning and Rangies.
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 14:00:41 +1030 (CST)

Tony muses:
> The scene: midway up the Canning Stock Route, (Great Sandy Desert), a 
> summer storm, a lightning strike nearby, the RR motor dies as the engine 
> management chip fuses into a little useless blob

< rest of story deleted to prevent recurrent nightmares.> 

Speaking of the canning and other remote tracks.  Does anyone have a copy of
the photos printed some years back, in Overlander magazine I think, which show
i) a burnt out sIII near one of the wells (38,42?) on the canning ( forgot to
clear the grass from the radiator when they went looking at the well :-)
and ii) the burnt out Rangie 2 dr half buried in the sand along the finke
river "track". 

Urrgh nasty stuff.
I want my teddie bear......
-- 

  Daryl

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Canning and Rangies.
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 14:02:23 +1030 (CST)

Tony muses:
>  The scene: midway up the Canning Stock Route, (Great Sandy Desert), a 
>  summer storm, a lightning strike nearby, the RR motor dies as the engine 
>  management chip fuses into a little useless blob
 
 < rest of story deleted to prevent recurrent nightmares. >
 
 Speaking of the canning and other remote tracks.  Does anyone have a copy of
 the photos printed some years back, in Overlander magazine I think, which show
 i) a burnt out sIII near one of the wells (38,42?) on the canning ( forgot to
 clear the grass from the radiator when they went looking at the well :-)
 and ii) the burnt out Rangie 2 dr half buried in the sand along the finke
 river "track". 
 
 Urrgh nasty stuff.
 I want my teddie bear......
 -- 
 
   Daryl
 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:44:11 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Reposting of US Camel Trophy finalists

Since the major chomped the 12/13 digest, here's a repost of the results...

After thirty two hours of near non-stop exertion, the four finalists for the 
US Camel Trophy team were selected over the weekend at the Hollister Hills 
ORV area in northern California.  The competitors will advance to the 
international trials in Seville, Spain, where two will be selected to 
represent the US in the next Camel Trophy in Kalimantan, Borneo.

The finalists are:

Jeff Brandner, 31, a landscape architect from Chester, New Jersey.
Ken Cameron, 26, a carpenter from Vail, Colorado.
Fred Hoess, 29, a mortocycle racer from Stanhope, New Jersey,
Greg Oberst, 36, firefighter and paramedic from Seal Beach, California.

These four were chosen from the nine participants; there were 400 
applications for the US team.  Originally, ten were selected to compete, but 
Mark Ritter (who is on the LRO list) withdrew at the last moment.  An 
airline pilot, he aggravated an old injury whilst rock climbing a week 
earlier, and after consulting with Tom Collins, the US team coordinator, he 
withdrew from the competition.  (Sorry to hear about that, Mark.)

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:48:06 +0800 (WST)
From: TONY YATES  <tonyy@waalpha.wa.BoM.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: Canning and fires.

Speaking of fires and such - on a recent trip up the Canning by the 
LROCWA a Nissan Patrol, which was the only petrol powered vehicle in the 
group, caught fire while driving through seeding spinifex.  After the 
driver was alerted by CB, he found a clear spot and evacuated with his 
passengers.  They managed to save one bag, and despite the application of 
several small extinguishers the vehicle plus most of their gear was burnt 
to the ground.

Which brings me to the other disadvantage of modern petrol powered 
vehicles - the catalytic converter.  This little firestarter runs 
considerably hotter than the rest of the exhaust and can very easily 
start grass fires if you are not very very careful.

(Those people gazing out of the window at a snow covered landscape need 
not be concerned). :-)

Tony.

------------------------------

From: PDoncaster@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:57:42 -0500
Subject: Problem 12-13-95 Digest

I didn't get the entire digest today. 
Did this happen to anyone elce?????

Could somone foreward me a copy??

Thanks in advance

Peter Doncaster
New Orleans, USA
'64 IIA 88 SF SW

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 23:03:18 -0500
From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas)
Subject: Re: Koenig winch parts, Ser II

 Ron Franklin writes:
>Could anyone help me with my rebuild of the Koenig winch on my '59 ser II
>pickup ?  
snip
>drum lever ,brake, pin, and some of the small parts are the same as those on
>the Koenig L621 PTO winch.  I have the original parts and owners manuals for
>all of these winches and can supply the parts numbers if that helps.

Ah!  I too have a Keonig winch which I have yet to mount on my IIA due to
lack of a mounting plate and fairleads.  It is not the cab control version
but would be interested in converting it if possible.  I was also missing
the drive piece that mounts to the crankshaft in place of the crank handle
socket and had been advised that British Northwest Land Rovers in Wash.
State had parts.  Now, this was a couple years ago when I wasn't as wise as
I am now.  I called them up and spoke to Charles Kellogg who told me he had
one there. I asked him to send it along.  Well after a long discussion about
LRs I had neglected to ask him the price before hanging up, but I didn't
give it much concern at the time since I knew what the piece looked like,
it's not much really, just a machined slug with a couple of drive dogs, so I
figured it wouldn't be that much.  Well a couple weeks later I received the
part along with a bill for 275 US dollars in fabrication fees.  OUCH!  After
letters to Kellogg and much fighting with my credit card company, I was not
able to get my money back.  Hard lesson learned.  Anyway, since then I've
heard many horror stories regarding this outfit, and in a way, after my
experience these are somewhat gratifying to hear.  Okay, sorry, I just had
to vent that.  Back to the winch:  I think the casting you're referring to
must have been the weak point in this winch as the PO of mine had front
ended something and smashed it, so mine has a bracket which someone had
quite expertly fabricated from heavy guage steel in place of it.  Let me
know if you want a picture of it or something.  Regarding parts, after my
experience with Kellogg, I found out that Charlie Haigh at Rovers North,
Vermont is quite knowledgable about these things and still runs the one he
bought new back in the 60s.  He faxed me the name and number of the company
who is handling the parts now but for the life of me I can't find it.  You
could call him though.  I'll look for it in the meantime.  Don't try calling
Koenig in Texas, they won't know what you are talking about. I tried.

Sorry for eating so much space.

Randall Thomas
Lancaster County USA
88'RR
67'IIA
70'3500S (P6B)
72'CitroenSM
Picking up 2000TC this month.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:21:01 -0800
From: cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson)
Subject: Secret Agent

Well, I just finished watching my favorite action packed, Land-Rover filled,
1960's TV show- Secret Agent. Starring Patrick Mcgoohan, AKA the Prisoner.
There are LR's in virtually every episode. Tonight he was under cover and when 
he was found out he hopped into a 107 pickup, which in the next cut was a
SII 88 hardtop ( can't beat that continuity). The bad guys then chased him 
around their estate in a SII 88 soft top. I was one of the best episodes
I've seen. 
This was an offroad chase sped up to high speed , great special effects ;-)
It was on Bravo, "TV To Good For TV" 73

Chris Youngson, VE7CST
West Vancouver, BC
1965 109

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 02:12:32 -0500
Subject: 1996 Camel Trophy

I attended the Camel Trophy National trials this weekend at the Hollister
Hills Off Road Recreational Vehicle area in Northern California.

Four Americans will be traveling to Seville Spain in February 1996 for the
International Selections.  Two will go on to represent the U.S. in the 1996
Camel Trophy.

The "Final Four" are:

Jeffrey Brandner, 31, Chester, NJ - The owner of  a landscape architecture
and installation firm, he has off road driving experience in the Rocky
Mountains as well as in Central America.  He is a competitive motorcycle,
kayak, and ski racer.

Kenneth Cameron, 26, Vail, CO - A carpenter for a log home construction
company, he has modified vehicles for off-roading and is a volunteer for Vail
Mountain Rescue.  He has raced motorcycles, and is an advanced rescue scuba
diver.

Fred Hoess, 29, Stanhope, NJ - The U.S. sales and marketing manager for
Ducati motorcycles.  He has off road driving experience pre running and
maintaining motorcycle race courses.   He has raced autos, motorcycles, jet
skis, snowmobiles, and bicycles.

Gregory Oberst, 36, Seal Beach, CA - A professional firefighter and
paramedic, he owns a Land Rover Discovery and has off road driving experience
in Mexico.  He has raced off road motorcycles and mountain bikes, and is a
marathon runner.

I will be writing a full article on the event with photos for an upcoming
issue of the Land Rover Owner Association (LROA) Aluminum Workhorse Magazine.

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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