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1 david@stat.com (David Do129[not specified]
2 Oscar M [omont@mnl.seque19Synthetics
3 azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woo28Re: Horror story
4 Stephen Thomas [THOMSE-U52 Boxpops
5 azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woo14Ersatz air filters
6 "Stefan R. Jacob" [1000413Re: Overdrive and the sound...
7 "Stefan R. Jacob" [1000414Re: "Strange Noises", '96 Disco...
8 Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus [A5Lumenition is gone - thanks!
9 Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus [A27Water ingestion by engine - ick!
10 Duncan Brown [DB@CHO004.26RE: SII vs. SIIA & Canadian Spec
11 Peter Kutschera [peter@z18Re: Oil everywhere but in the sump!
12 LTC Larry Smith [smithla33 Re: Overdrive and the sound of one hand clapping...
13 wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy 23"Scarved for live" explanation
14 SBeckey@sawgrass.racal.c42SE Oil Change
15 "Bobeck, David R." [dbob22Re: "Scarved for live" explanation
16 Harincar@mooregs.com (Ti65Buying Long Distance
17 "Tom Rowe" [TROWE@AE.AGE40Re: Boxpops
18 GElam30092@aol.com 39Receiver mounted winches
19 slade@teleport.com (Mich112Re: Buying Long Distance (LONG)
20 ey-postmaster@geis.com 21The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
21 Bennett Leeds [bennett@m101Disco Musings: Nits, problems, a recommendation, and some fun
22 gpool@pacific.pacific.ne60Roof Rack Load Limits
23 rpeng@cadev6.intel.com 30re: buying Land Rovers
24 Simon Barclay [sbar@jna.71Re: Galvanising and junior framemaster
25 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV 22225 yr old Rover's 4600+ mile "maiden" voyage. (LONG!)
26 Treit Le [Treit_Le@appri21Miscellaneous
27 Kevan Shaw [kevan@krshaw23Jacking Points
28 rover@pinn.net (Alexande28Things that go bump in the night
29 cs@crl.com (Michael Carr19Re: 25 yr old Rover's 4600+ mile "maiden" voyage. (LONG!)
30 Ray Harder [ccray@showme40Re: Things that go bump in the night
31 Benjamin Allan Smith [be32[not specified]
32 Gary Mitchelson [garym@c15[not specified]
33 ecrover@midcoast.com (Mi28Galv. parts
34 rthomas@postoffice.ptd.n19Re: Things that go bump in the night
35 Duncan Brown [DB@CHO004.23Re: Things that go bump in the night
36 TONY YATES [tonyy@waalp68re: buying Land Rovers
37 LANDROVER@delphi.com 20Re: Water ingestion by engine - ick!
38 ASFCO@aol.com 11How many are left ??
39 dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu22Re: breather pipe routing
40 Benjamin Allan Smith [be59[not specified]
41 TONY YATES [tonyy@waalp23Re: breather pipe routing
42 dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu17Re: breather pipe routing


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Subject: Front Seat Info / Children / Airbags / Discovery
From: david@stat.com (David Dodell)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 00:28:02 MST

Several weeks ago, I asked about the safety of putting a child in the
front seat of a 96 Disco due to the airbag.

Just received this by email, concerning child seats in general from the
Centers for Disease Control.

   Air-Bag-Associated Fatal Injuries to Infants and Children Riding in Front 
                        Passenger Seats -- United States

     Air bags, when used as a supplement to safety belts, effectively prevent 
deaths and serious injuries in frontal motor-vehicle crashes. Air bags are 
standard equipment in most new cars; federal safety standards require that all 
new passenger cars and light trucks be equipped with both driver- and 
passenger-side air bags by 1999. The safety of air bags is well documented, 
and air bags have saved an estimated 900 lives since the late 1980s (1); 
however, special precautions are needed to safely transport children in 
vehicles equipped with air bags. Reports of eight deaths of child passengers 
in crashes involving air-bag deployment are of special concern because they 
involved low-speed crashes that the children otherwise might have survived. 
This report summarizes three of these eight cases (2).
Case 1. In October 1995, in Utah, a 5-year-old child sitting in the front 
passenger seat of a 1994-model automobile was killed when the passenger-side 
air bag deployed during a collision. Preliminary information indicates the 
child was not restrained by the lap/shoulder belt. The child sustained a skull 
fracture as a result of head contact with the air bag and subsequent head 
contact with the roof of the vehicle.
Case 2. In July 1995, in Pennsylvania, a 20-day-old infant seated in a 
rear-facing convertible child safety seat in the front passenger seat of a 
1995-model automobile was killed when the passenger-side air bag deployed. The 
infant sustained multiple skull fractures and crushing injuries to the brain 
as a result of the impact of the air-bag compartment cover flap with the back 
of the child safety seat at the location of the child's head. At the time of 
collision, the vehicle was traveling at approximately 23 miles per hour. The 
vehicle had a label on the right front sun visor warning against using a 
rear-facing child safety seat in the front passenger seat. The child safety 
seat also had a warning label that read "when used in a rear facing mode, do 
not place in the front seat of a vehicle that has a passenger air bag."
Case 3. In April 1993, in Ohio, a 6-year-old child who was sitting 
unrestrained in the front passenger seat of a 1993-model automobile was killed 
when the passenger-side air bag deployed during a collision with a stopped 
vehicle. The child died from a brain injury caused by blunt force trauma.
Reported by: Traffic Safety Programs, National Highway Traffic Safety 
Administration. Div of Unintentional Injury Prevention, National Center for 
Injury Prevention and Control, CDC.
Editorial Note: Although infants, children, and all other occupants always 
should be properly restrained in safety seats or safety belts, as many as 35% 
of young children ride unrestrained (3). Any child who rides unrestrained or 
incorrectly restrained in the front seat of a vehicle with a passenger-side 
air bag is at risk for serious injury or death if the air bag deploys. 
Precrash braking may propel an unrestrained child against the dashboard in 
immediate proximity to the point of air-bag deployment. The inflating air bag 
then can propel the child against structures inside the vehicle, causing 
serious injury or death.
     Rear-facing child restraints also pose a hazard in vehicles with a 
passenger-side air bag and must never be placed in the front seat (4). To be 
properly protected, infants must ride in a rear-facing child restraint until 
they weigh 20 pounds or are approximately 1 year old (5). In a crash, a 
rear-facing child restraint placed in the front seat with its back close to 
the vehicle's instrument panel could be struck by the rapidly inflating air 
bag, and the child in the restraint could be seriously injured or killed.
     Forward-facing safety seats are less likely to be affected by air bag 
interaction because of their greater distance from the point of air-bag 
deployment in the dashboard. However, because these seats usually place the 
child at least several inches closer to the dashboard than adults in the 
standard seating position, the safest practice is to place all child safety 
seats in the back seat of the vehicle. If a forward-facing safety seat must be 
placed in the front seat of a vehicle with a passenger-side air bag, the 
vehicle seat should be moved as far back as possible to maximize clearance 
with the dashboard.
     As a result of an investigation of air-bag-related fatalities and serious 
injuries to child passengers, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) 
recently released safety recommendations regarding children and air bags (2). 
NTSB recommends collaboration between automobile and safety-seat 
manufacturers, the news media, health and medical organizations, and the 
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) to inform motorists and 
parents of the correct procedures for transporting children in vehicles 
equipped with air bags. NHTSA has enacted several regulatory measures 
addressing the air bag/child passenger problem, including labeling 
requirements for vehicles and child safety seats and specifications for 
air-bag cutoff switches. CDC and NHTSA have developed recommendations to 
prevent air-bag-associated injuries to infants and children (see box).
     In addition to intensifying efforts to educate motorists, NHTSA has 
solicited public comment regarding further strategies to reduce adverse 
effects of air bags (published in the November 9, 1995, Federal Register*); 
written comments are due by Decem- ber 26, 1995, to Docket Section, Room 5109, 
NHTSA, 400 Seventh St., S.W., Washington, DC 20590 (refer to docket 74-14, 
notice #97).
     Additional information is available from Child Safety Seats, c/o NHTSA, 
NTS-13, 400 Seventh St., S.W., Washington, DC 20590; or from NHTSA's Auto 
Safety Hotline, telephone (800) 424-9393 or (202) 366-0123.
     Air-bag-associated serious injuries and deaths to infants and children 
should be reported to Vernon Roberts, NTSB, telephone (202) 382-0660.
References
1. National Center for Statistics and Analysis, National Highway Traffic 
Safety Administration. Traffic safety facts 1994: occupant protection. 
Washington, DC: US Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic 
Safety Administration, 1995.
2. National Transportation Safety Board. Safety recommendation, H-95-17. 
Washington, DC: National Transportation Safety Board, 1995.
3. National Center for Statistics and Analysis, National Highway Traffic 
Safety Administration. Research note. National occupant protection use survey: 
controlled intersection study. Washington, DC: US Department of 
Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, May 1, 1995.
4. CDC. Warnings on interaction between air bags and rear-facing child 
restraints. MMWR 1993; 42:280-2.
5. American Academy of Pediatrics. 1995 Family shopping guide to car seats: 
guidelines for parents. Elk Grove Village, Illinois: American Academy of 
Pediatrics, 1995.

Public Health Recommendations to Prevent Air-Bag-Associated Injuries to 
Infants and Children
-- All infants and children should be properly restrained in child safety 
seats or lap and shoulder belts when riding in a motor vehicle.
-- Infants riding in rear-facing child safety seats should never be placed in 
the front seat of a car or truck with a passenger-side air bag.
-- Children should ride in a car's rear seat. If a vehicle does not have a 
rear seat, children riding in the front seat should be positioned as far back 
as possible from an air bag.

* 60 FR 56554.

---
Internet: david@stat.com                 FAX: +1 (602) 451-6135
WWW: http://www.stat.com/~david

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Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 18:24:25 +0800
From: Oscar M <omont@mnl.sequel.net>
Subject: Synthetics

What do you guys think of using synthetic, engine/transmission, under the
following conditions :    (1)  ambient temperature 75-95 degrees F, (2)
travel 35-40 miles per day, (3) start the engine 6x-8x per day, (4) stop &
go driving, and (5) minimal freeway driving.

Right, not the greatest daily driving conditions but a hell of a lot of
off-road possibilites here!!!

Thanks

Oscar
omont@mnl.sequel.net
75247.2423@compuserve.com
Philippines

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From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Horror story
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:44:09 UNDEFINED

\Is synthetic oil worth the extra money? 

No. Unless you are too lazy to change the oil. Just use a good non synth and 
change twice as often as the service schedule requires.

\Is it worth it in an old and slightly tired motor?

No. It can leak out of clearances that ordinary oil cant get thru.

\Is it OK to use in a new motor?

No. Not for 10000 miles. The motor wont break in properly on synth from new.

\Regarding non synthetics, how do you pick a "good" oil? They seem to vary 
\enormously in cost but all claim to exceed all known specifications.

Look at the rec.motorcycles Oil FAQ. Superb.
The really interesting bit was tee grade holding tests where Castrol GTX did 
much better than all the other non synths and only Mobil One of the synths 
beat it!!!!

Guess what I use now..........

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From: Stephen Thomas <THOMSE-U@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk>
Date:         7 Dec 95 13:04:45 GMT
Subject:      Boxpops

Does anyone know if there is a strightforward explanantion for this,
or is it a sign of impending doom.

The recently recon gearbox in Andy has been performing beautifully up
to now, but this morning in anticipation of problems driving out of
our ice-rink of a car park - the estate where we live is isolated and
the snow overnight had fallen and then frozen - I decided to pop it
into four-wheel drive just to get off the estate's iced-up roads.
However on depressing the 4WD selector it did not click into place,
and instead rose straight back up again. Operating Hi to Low range
had no effect and the selector rose again immediately. I have not had
a chance to see if Low range and its automatic 4WD selection is
operating properly. The selector has worked before as we had it in
4WD on the drive when we did some work on it, on going into Low range
it popped back up happy-as-larry.

I normally keep the hubs locked to lubricate the bushes, but with the
possibility of having 4WD permanantly in place and no desire for wind-
up in the transmission, I unlocked them for driving. I have booked it
in for a service on the 20th Dec anyway and have asked for them to
look at the 4WD selector under the gearbox warranty.

Could it be something major? Could it just be that the selector rod
has come off the 4WD section of the box (the selector does slop
around a bit)? Is there anything that I should worry about before it
goes for the service, i.e. any chance of major damage that I am
risking in the interval between now and the 20th?

whingeing on again....
Steve

    /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\
   /~~~~~~~~~~~~||~~~~~~~~~~~~\
   ||       /   ||   \       ||
   ||_____/_____||_____\_____||
   |_|________|____|________|_|
  /~---__ ______________ __---~\
 |~~~~~~~| /=\|####|/=\ |~~~~~~~|
 | o o   | \=/|####|\=/ |   o o |
 | EAB   |##############|       | Stephen Thomas
 |_836B__|##############|_______| 1964 IIa Diesel 'Andy'
  \____________________________/  0121-452-1405
  |~_-_~|----\___/-------|~_-_~|  Thomse-u@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk
  |~_-_~|                |~_-_~|
  |~_-_~|                |~_-_~| ['Andy' : Classic car, definitely
   ~---~                  ~---~            not a daily driver :)]

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From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Ersatz air filters
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:49:16 UNDEFINED

\last week, Roy Wassili doubted if the Volkswagen Oilfilter really matches
\the LR one. I got to the autoparts dealer again this Saturday and checked
\carefully again. It is really similar to that I got from the British autoparts
\shop. If anyone is intersted to use it, too. It's the oilfilter mounted on 
\the newer VW diesels (nonturbo) like Golf/Rabbit and Passat.

More to the point has abnyone found a cheaper replacement for the ridiculously 
expensive paper canister things on 90s?

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Date: 07 Dec 95 08:17:43 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Overdrive and the sound...

> If so how big a deal is it to  restore the mainshaft bearing carrier and
> drive on.

It's a 15-minute job, leaving a 10 inch oil puddle...   However, make sure
the backplate actually has a bearing in it... (don't ask...)

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

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Date: 07 Dec 95 08:19:03 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: "Strange Noises", '96 Disco...

> Yes, Yes, i've had that noise too in my SIII SWB Diesel.
> In my case the universal joints and moveable joint on the front prop shaft
> where completely buggered.

But surely not on a *_'96_ Disco* ...   honestly...
Again: Check those transmission brakes !

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

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From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date:  7 Dec 95  8:18:02 EST
Subject: Lumenition is gone - thanks!

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From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date:  7 Dec 95  8:24:05 EST
Subject: Water ingestion by engine - ick!

I've started driving my 109 on a daily basis, and I discovered a serious 
oversight I'd made that I hope to help someone else avoid.

When i installed the ex-late IIa motor in my 109, it had none of the pollution 
crud on it and the port on the carb for PCV was blocked. "OK" I say, no big 
deal....

HOWEVER,

I made the mistake of not putting some sort of tube over the stub on the front 
of the oil filler neck, and the engine ingested enough water in a recent rain 
to put a nice frothy sludge on top of my oil...ick!

Guess who's getting an oil change ths weekend?

What I ended up doing was putting a piece of fuel hose on the stub and routing 
it up the side of the filler nec, holding it in place with 3 wire ties. This 
way, it's able to vent and t's not pointing forward to ingest water......double 
ick!

    aj"I hate oil mousse"r

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Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 09:09:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: RE: SII vs. SIIA & Canadian Spec

> Our '60 88", originally sold in Pennsylvania, has a heater with the long
> rectangular air box under the dash, and the air inlet at the front, inside of
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> was installed. Prehaps this heater was a predecessor to the Kodiak, and was
> sourced in North America and installed locally? 

    My 88 (made in '59, titled as a '60, originally from Canada) has
    that same setup: Smith's heater removed, heater with rectangular box
    installed under passenger side dash (not recently either!).  It
    definitely had the inlet at the front (on the inside face of the
    right front wing, next to the grill and headlight) but this has had
    a piece of aluminum put over it and a crude hole cut in the wing
    outside (in the normal spot) and covered over with window screen...

    Oh yeah and the one-piece doors.

    My doors clearly had "GVW 5000" painted on the lower edges at one
    point.  Presumably Gross Vehicle Weight.  Is this a clue as to its
    former life?  many have suggested Canadian Forestry service.

    Duncan

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:30:43 +0100
From: Peter Kutschera <peter@zditr1.arcs.ac.at>
Subject: Re: Oil everywhere but in the sump!

  Kevan Shaw writes:
> I have an '82  88" diesel which runs fine except it has a habit of chucking
 lots of oil out the breather on the rocker cover, particularly on long
 runs. 

I also had this problem. This mushroom like think on the top of the engine was
loose. After using a new screw i don't loose so mutch oil there. :-)
But there are other leaks too :-(

Peter

Signature: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter
Landrover: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter/LR

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Date:     Thu, 7 Dec 95 7:32:01 EST (1232Z)
From: LTC Larry Smith <smithla@arngrc-emh2.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  Overdrive and the sound of one hand clapping...

Bill,

Just a thought.  I just got thru replacing the clutch sleeve on my OD unit.  If
you ar not familiar, this replaces the main gear on the Xmsn output shaft.  It 
consists of a sleeve with roller bearings on the Xmsn end and splines on the OD
end.  The rollers carry the end of the OD input shaft while the splines mesh 
with female splines inside the OD input shaft.  My OD unit sounded like 
severely battered U-Joints when coming to a stop.  Exam showed the splines on 
the sleeve almost completely rolled over (like the teeth on a motorcycle 
sprocket with a worn chain).  The only time this assy gets lube is bearing 
grease upon assembly.

What you might have is the splines have completely let go.  Only way I know to 
check w/o removing the OD is to block the wheels, take off the top plate on the
Xmsn, the top plate off the OD, put the Xfer in neutral, and run both the Xmsn 
and OD thru the gears.  If you have output from the Xmsn and no "pickup" with 
the OD input, the sleeve would be a good bet.  Otherwise, lay away about an 
hour to remove the OD unit.  Pretty straight forward.  However, two of the nuts
you have to remove are "capture" by the OD case.  Have to work back and forth 
to remove.  They do help to pull the case away from the Xfer case however.  If 
you get a binding, move the OD shift lever back and forth several times to 
disengage the geh.  On assembly, get everything back together as tightly as 
possible, and bump the starter to get the teeth to remesh for final seating of 
the OD unit (courtsey of Rovers North).

Sorry for massive consumption of the bandwith.

Larry

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Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 16:19:32 +0001
From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili)
Subject: "Scarved for live" explanation

Bob( or is it Robert?)

We have a saying here in the Netherlands for things that are rather
expensive, wich goes "It costs me a rib out of my body" ( free translation
). So you can imagine, after buying a LandRover, that one get scarved with
one rib less!( Two that is, the first one they used to create women ;-) and
she cost me a rib already! ..oops how low can you go? Have to watch those ribs!)

Regards,

LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR
                ____
      |   _____/|__||   Roy Wassili,<wassili@amc.uva.nl>
      |  /(-8|  \   |   Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66
  ____|_/[]__|__\___|#  scarved for live
 |] __=|     |  __  |#
[|_/  \|_____|_/  \_|]
  ( o )        ( o )

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From: SBeckey@sawgrass.racal.com
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:07:30 -0400
Subject: SE Oil Change

Hi Ben:

I saw your posting on the Landrover Owner digest. I've only got about 4K
miles on my 4.0 SE, but its already been in to change the break-in oil. By
then it was already leaking, which I guess we should expect. The
dealer (Palm Beach Motors) happily refit the oil pan with new sealant.

I'm sure you're aware there's a lot of controversy over synthetic oil. I clip-
the following from an aviation newsletter URL: http://www.avweb.com/
that came today (this applies to aircooled piston aircraft engines):

<quote>

MOBIL AV-1 SUIT SETTLED
A judge has approved a final settlement in the class action suit
against Mobil for damage allegedly caused by it's AV-1 synthetic oil.
Under the settlement, Mobil agreed to pay for repairs and downtime if
owners can prove damage via a complex inspection protocol. Owners have
until the end of February to file claims with Mobil.

<unquote>

The argument seems to be that while synthetic oil is a great lubricant,
it doesn't have the detergent / dispersal properties of the real thing.
Teardowns were finding clumps of debris inside the engines after running
synthetic oil. I've decided to keep mine running the regular oil, and just
change often.

If you haven't done it yet, there's also two recall notices (brake line &
belt pulley) that will have to be done. It took an overnight stay to fix
the various minor complaints.

I am very happy with the car overall. Good luck with yours.

Scott Beckey
95 4.0 SE

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Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 11:26:38 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: "Scarved for live" explanation

We have a saying here in the Netherlands for things that are rather
expensive, wich goes "It costs me a rib out of my body" ( free translation
). So you can imagine, after buying a LandRover, that one get scarved with
one rib less!( Two that is, the first one they used to create women ;-) and
she cost me a rib already! ..oops how low can you go? Have to watch those ribs!)
                ____
      |   _____/|__||   Roy Wassili,<wassili@amc.uva.nl>
      |  /(-8|  \   |   Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66
  ____|_/[]__|__\___|#  scarved for live
 |] __=|     |  __  |#
[|_/  \|_____|_/  \_|]
  ( o )        ( o )

I still don't get it. You have to wear a scarf to stay
          alive? I thought those new Landies had better
          heaters. :-)
          -Dave "reaching"

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From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 11:37:47 -0600
Subject: Buying Long Distance

Its sounds like David Bobeck and I could exchange our experiences with little 
difficulty. Wierd.

I also bought mine in upstate NY, Rochester, a little over a year ago. I 
first talked with the gentleman's son, who posted it. He pointed me to the 
mailing list and the FAQ, which I read, and told me that the frame of this 
beastie was "very sound". I also got a list of replaced parts, copies of 
reciepts for the parts, and photos in the mail. All looked pretty good. I 
also had some long phone calls with him on the state of the vehicle.

At the time, I had never seen a Rover up close. So here was my logic: First, 
the guy was pointing me to the FAQ, so it didn't seem like he was trying to 
hide anything. Second, the vehicle was priced per the guidlines in the FAQ 
for a sound Rover of this vintage ($4500). Last, he seemed, based on our 
phone conversations, to have the "rover lingo" down - i.e. he talked like he 
knew what was going on. He also had it ready to go into Hemmings, but I 
bought it before it appeared.

I flew out to look at it and bought it.

What I got was a pretty good runner with a trashed frame - lots of patches, 
home-fab rear x-member, non-Rover rear springs, bad motor mounts.

I blame myself mostly, if I would have had somebody go look at it I could 
have avoided lots of sweat and the soon to happen frame-over (which is what I 
was *trying* to aviod - major work). I do think the PO actually thought it 
was worth that, or at least I like to think that. No one likes to feel like 
they were purposly screwed. :-/

I drove it back to Minneapolis: no major problems - lost the generator before 
I hit Buffalo (bad wire), found the leak in the gas filler neck, burned lots 
of gas because the carb was adjusted poorly, etc. The PO had replaced most of 
the things that tend to fail or road trips - pumps and stuff like that.  I 
also bought a simple "tune-up" kit, dist. cap, rotor, plugs, wires, hoses, 
belt, etc.

Here's a tip on flying someplace and driving back - I called my airline 
and it wouldn't allow me to carry-on a toolbox. I was flying standby so 
no checked luggage. I don't know if I would check my tools anyway. After I 
bought this thing, I went to a local wal-mart and bought $200 worth of tools 
and left them all in their packages. I returned them all when I got back. :-)

Thats my story. The distance didn't seen to be as much a problem as my 
ignorance of what I was getting into. I have a friend that works for an 
airline so I can fly pretty cheap - my flight out there was only $50, so the 
investment wasn't too great.

I don't know if there is any wisdom in there or not. Basically, get someone 
you trust to look at it before you fly or drive any distance. Or be willing 
to sacrifce the cost of a plane ticket on a goose chase. 

Good luck,

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 
SW

------------------------------
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From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:47:08 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Boxpops

Steve
Snip
> However on depressing the 4WD selector it did not click into place,
 and instead rose straight back up again. Operating Hi to Low range
 had no effect and the selector rose again immediately. I have not had
 a chance to see if Low range and its automatic 4WD selection is
 operating properly. The selector has worked before as we had it in
 4WD on the drive when we did some work on it, on going into Low range
> it popped back up happy-as-larry.

This since the gearbox recon?

Snip 

I'd suggest with the range selector in high and your hubs engaged , 
jack up one rear wheel (assuming you don't have a diff lock) and see 
if you can drive off. If not, you know the front wheel drive unit 
isn't engaged. Which it might be if the selector shaft has come 
loose.
If you can drive off, put it in low then back to high and try it 
again to make sure it's disengaing. I was told by a LR service guy 
many years ago it's not wise to drive in 4WD with the front hubs 
disengaged.
The selector could be disconnected (maybe they forgot the cotter pin on 
refitting. Or it could be the stop in the FWD unit isn't engaging.
Good luck.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------
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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:10:19 -0500
Subject: Receiver mounted winches

You wrote: “Any thoughts, comments, or experiences with receiver-mounted
winches?
I'm particularly interested in the Class III receiver mounted 8000lb Warn
Winch (along with the Class III front receiver) listed in the latest Rovers
North Catalog. I'd be installing said device in a 94 Disco.”

I have the same setup but I suspect the RN has it over-priced.  If I had it
to do over again, I would purchase the receiver from them and the winch from
someone else.

Works great.  The receiver attaches to the frame where the front bumper
attaches.  This is the same attachment that the LRNA winch attaches to on the
Discos.  It can be mounted by one person but it is heavy and difficult to get
the bolts lined with the holes by yourself.  It does cut the approach angle
significantly.

All things considered, the winch stays nice and clean tucked away in the
back.  The bad news is that you need to secure it whenever you carry it
around.   (Mark Ritter, I think, mentioned using threaded holes with
tie-downs from Northern Hydraulics in the rear floor of the Disco..they’re
there and it was a super idea!.  Or I use the seatbelts in the fold-down
seats:  perfect for holding a 5-gal cooler and the winch!) 

(Someone recently mentioned using an eye-attachment in a receiver on the rear
to lift with a High Lift.  I have the same eye-bolt.  I see no reason why you
couldn’t lift the front with the front receiver too.  You would be lifting
from the middle however.)

I also purchased a long Warn electrical cable to run to the rear of my Disco.
 You never know when it might be advantageous to pull back rather than pull
forward!

Gerry “(likes his parentheses)” Elam

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 10:42:38 -0800
From: slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade)
Subject: Re: Buying Long Distance (LONG)

Here's what I went through to aquire my 109 which I picked up last week.

I called about 20 different people regarding thier land rovers which were
for sale all over the country.  Many of the things said regarding East
Coast vehicles are true.  Case in point:

I had a line on a cherry NADA 6 which was previously owned by Billy Joel
(actually by Christie Brinkley, but that's another story).  It was on
Martha's Vinyard and was supposedly in great 'restored' shape.  I happen to
have a good relationship with Mike Smith of East Coast Rovers, and
asked him if he'd go down and do an official appraisal on the truck.

He agreed, went down and the truck checked out extremely well in every
regard save one.  Yep, you guessed it.  Patched and cracked frame.  The
asking price was 19,000.  When he figured out I knew more about Rovers than
he did (mind you this was a 3rd party selling and not Mr. Joel) his price
dropped to 16,8.  I had him shoot some photos, faxed a list of things I
wanted him to show, etc...  He returned 4 blurry photos taken on a
disposable camera and they looked ok, considering...

I mailed him my final offer of 13K citing a replacement frame was in order
and explained a few of the costs involved.  Not to mention a cross country
drive, which in a LR was sure to be long.

He called back a week later with a final counter offer of 15,5.  I held at
13.  He said that in two weeks it was going to be put up for the winter.  I
figured that if it was there next summer I'd offer him 12 and see what he
said.

A call to East Coast Rover about a month ago verified that it did indeed
sell for 13,500.  I guess after my offer he figured out that it wasn't
worth what they were asking.

Moral of that story:  Have a QUALIFIED appraiser look at the car.  Don't be
afraid to dicker and haggle, and most important, don't be afraid to say NO.
I'm glad I did.

So, I found out through Gord'n Parrot about a guy near Seattle who had a
109 that he was hesitant to sell, but might have to due to unforseen
circumstances.  I called him up and asked him about his truck.  He said
that he'd had a lot of work done on it by Gord'n (who BTW in case you don't
know is practically the best mechanic in the PNW), and wasn't sure if he
wanted to sell.  He was going to have the engine rebuilt, and even if he
didn't he'd be somewhere between 10 and 11.

I decided to wait and see how it panned out.  Besides, I had plenty of
leads on other trucks to follow.

About 2 months later I saw an ad in the Oregonian with a 109 in Washington
for sale at 10K.  I didn't remember the ph# so I called.

When he heard my voice and I said I was from Portland he reminded me that
I'd spoken to him before (duh, now I feel really stupid), and began to
recite all the stuff he'd had done since we talked (1200 bucks worth).

So, I hurried up and drove to Seattle (he said he had other people coming)
not wanting to let this one slip out from under me.  While I was up there I
went and saw Gord'n about the truck and he told me about all the work he'd
done to it for the seller.  I was impressed, and Gord'n told me that he was
actually kind of mad that it was being sold.  I think he had kind of a
personal attatchment to it since he had done most of the work to it.

Well, I went and saw it, drove it and put down a thousand bucks with a
contract to return after thanksgiving with the balance.

When I went to pick it up the seller looked very forlorn ( a good sign I
figured that he was parting with a good truck) and I tried to ease the pain
by taking him cash.  I got the title, he got the money and I headed back to
Gord'n's for the 500 mile engine rebuild oil change.

A few people were there that knew the truck, knew the owner, and were just
amazed at the price I was getting the truck for.  Since I had the
admiration of fellow Rover owners, not to mention the mechanic who had done
all the work on it, I was feeling pretty good.

I'm thrilled about the truck, and what's more, I didn't have to fly
anywhere to get it, truck it back on a dolly, or have it shipped.  I struck
an even balance of good truck at the right price in the right location.

Granted, I could have gotten an east coast truck at a cheaper price, but I
wouldn't have the luxury of seeing it inexpensively, getting it home
cheaply, and last but definitely not least, I would't know who did the work
on it.  I put a heap of trust in Gord'n, and he comes very highly
reccomended by people in Portland.

Oh, I'm also a firm believer in buying a truck (if you can) that someone
else has put all the money into and driving it away knowing you have a
solid rig.  Even if it means paying a little extra.  I must say though,
that I don't have a garage, any fancy tools to work on a truck with, and my
time is at a premium right now and I couldn't do a lot of work on a partial
truck.  So, for me a decent turn-key Rover that someone had the misfortune
of having to sell was a great compromise.

Now I've started the first major project which is to take apart the doors,
strip them down to bare metal (the door frames that is), get rid of all the
rust, prime and re-paint.  Probably have to rattle-can the thing at first
then spring for real paint later.  I hope I have't bitten off more than I
can chew.

BTW is there a good way to recondition interior door trim?  Probably better
just to buy new.  :(

Sorry this was long, but if you read it this far you can only blame yourself :)

Later,

Michael

------------------------------
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From: ey-postmaster@geis.com
Date: Thu,  7 Dec 95 18:04:00 UTC 0000
Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

GE Item Number: 7598364
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------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 11:22:31 PST
From: Bennett Leeds <bennett@mv.us.adobe.com>
Subject: Disco Musings: Nits, problems, a recommendation, and some fun

I've had my Disco almost a month now. Some nits that I haven't seen  
discussed before:

1) I wish the wheel base were 1" longer. The rear seat fits between  
the wheel wells rather than in front of them. No problem for adults,  
but child seats slide off the carpeted well housing, thus moving them  
towards the center 5-6". Thus, with 2 car seats back there, the  
middle spot is too tight for anyone under 6 years of age. (I  
understand what extending the wheel base would do to off-road  
performance.)

2) It's really hard to put car seats in the Disco. On most vehicles,  
you can thread the belt in, then pull to tighten it before you put  
the locking clip on. That doesn't work on the Disco - the belt  
doesn't slide either way when latched. The jump seats have a squeeze  
operated mechanism, but car seats aren't safe back there.

3) Sunroof switches are not illuminated. Surely a low-level glow  
wouldn't distract driving (doesn't on my other car with it).

4) Illogical layout and workings of other controls has already been  
discussed, but I'll add for '96s with fog lamps that the front fog  
lamp switch and the rear fog lamp switch are nowhere near each other.  
I think someone oddling the car is going to break my ashtray from  
trying to pull it out first someday.

Problems:

At about 2100 miles the "Check Engine" light came on. I was about 400  
miles from home, but luckily there was a Land Rover center not too  
far (in Thousand Oaks, CA). They could not find what was wrong,  
however. Engine was running perfectly, I did not run out of gas at  
any time, and I was not traveling over 80 MPH for more than 20  
minutes (the 3 major causes of the light coming on). 

Turns out that the "Check Engine" light is connected to the  
diagnostic systems for emissions (which are, I believe, required for  
'96 and beyond in US), so their guess is that the emissions dropped  
below standards for a brief spell. I have a funny feeling this will  
be the first of a large number of stops by the dealership to have my  
Check Engine light reset.

And, a small assortment of so far minor problems.

Fun:

As my fellow LR owners rightly chide me, I haven't taken my Disco off  
road for anything more than some jaunts in the dirt and hills. While  
my Disco was being checked out, I walked around the center some. Next  
door was a Hummer dealership. The CTIS (Central Tire Inflation  
System) looked cool (among other things) but it sure looks cramped in  
those front seats (not to mention being so far apart from each  
other). Ooddles of ground clearance, of course.

In front of the Rover center, however, they had a short man-made  
"road" built (actually, a man-made off-road). 30 degree hills, 8"  
high rocks, railroad ties etc. It was blocked by a few cars. After my  
car was ready, I asked if the track was just for show. Next thing I  
know, they've moved the cars, the general manager introduces himself,  
and we're in my Disco heading for it. 

How'd I do?  Lousy. I now know why auto trans are better for off-road  
(mine's a stick).  A few stalls and one minor frame scrape the first  
time through (the GM even correctly guessed what had scraped). I  
noticed from the brochure that 1st in the manual is geared lower than  
first in the auto - but the auto has got a torque converter to make  
up for that. I imagine a big help just worrying about brake and gas  
and not stalling.

Only one stall, but much smoother the second time. Trick was to  
almost never use the clutch - to keep the vehicle moving at all times  
(and first in low is pretty slow at 1K rpm). My second time was  
nothing to write home about, but it was 100% better than my first  
pass. In one way the forced discipline to keep going actually helped  
me out.

I jokingly asked if the neighboring dealers wanted to take Monteros  
or Troopers, etc. through the course. He smiled and said they hadn't  
yet asked him. I did notice that the track wasn't wide enough for a  
Hummer, though.

Everyone one at the Thousand Oaks Center was very friendly. They  
answered all my questions, looked things up for me that were  
completely unrelated to the service, etc. - even though they knew I  
was No. CA. Of course, they washed my car.

I hear that San Jose is going to be a LR Center as well. That's  
great, but the people at the Thousand Oaks dealership are much  
better, both from their LR knowledge as well as from their  
disposition. Maybe they have a harder time selling the cars - I  
noticed more than a couple of '95 Discos still on the lot - that's  
too bad.

- Bennett

'96 Disco 5 spd.

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:36:50 -0800
From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool)
Subject: Roof Rack Load Limits

Rover Netizens:

There's been much discussion about load limits on roof racks.  Most of the
questions have been about the load limits for racks mounted on new breeds of
Land-Rovers.  What I have to say pertains to racks mounted on the rain
gutters of Series Land-Rovers (and Defenders that have metal roofs).

Ever wonder what actually happens when you overload a rack?  Well, I did
overload one and know what happened.  I have a custom-made expedition rack
for an 88.  It is somewhat longer than the roof.  It mounts to the rain
gutter via machine screws through holes in the gutter, up into the bottoms
of the legs of the rack (via welded-in captive nuts) (an arrangement that I
don't like and plan to change before I put in on another Land-Rover).  This
rack is quite substantial, made of 1/2" x 1" rectangular steel tubing,
painted rather than galvanized (and now rather rusty).  All legs are
angle-braced along the sides and the end legs are gusseted to the cross
rails as well.

Until I bought a pickup truck for work use, I had to use my Land-Rover 88
and either a trailer or my roof rack to haul everything.  I was at the local
lumber yard getting a load of particle board underlayment.  Anyone who's
messed with it knows this stuff is quite heavy.  I don't remember now how
many sheets I put up there but quite a few, say maybe 15 sheets of 5/8"
particle board.  It looked OK when loaded.  But by the time I got home (only
about 6-8 blocks away) damage had occurred.  Some of the angle braces (only
at the ends of the rack) were stressed out so that they became more
hexagonal than rectangular (they are still that way).  But worse than that
was the damage to the Land-Rover roof.  The side panels of the roof were too
stressed under all that weight and had to give somewhere.  The somewhere is
the lower corners of the openings of the sliding side windows.  The aluminum
sheeting cracked at these corners.  And I think there was some very slight
stress evident on the back corners of the roof sides, as well.  Nothing
fatal:  The sliding windows still worked OK and the damage was not
conspicuous.  Still, not something you'd want to do to a really cherry
Rover.  Mine was a working vehicle and I was still not pleased.  I'd rather
get my panel damage the time-honored way, out on the trail, thank you very much.

Of course, the load I put on it at the lumber yard is way beyond the sort of
load I'd even remotely consider putting on my rack for trail driving.  I
have carried four jerry cans (6-US gallon) of fuel and one (6-US gallon) of
water plus a good pile of other gear and then gotten up and walked around on
it (235 lbs clothed and booted) with no ill effects.  And I found it pretty
stable driving, too, with my wide tires (10.50s on 8" rims).   

So these roofs can take a lot of weight but do have limits.  YMMV.

Cheers,

Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA
<gpool@pacific.pacific.net> (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work
          In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
                In the midst of his laughter and glee,
            He had softly and suddenly vanished away--
                For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see.
                          --Lewis Carroll

------------------------------
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From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com
Subject: re: buying Land Rovers
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 12:44:27 PST

>A third trend, at least in CA, is that pre-1966 Rovers don't have to be
>Smogged.  As Smog laws get tougher and tougher, those Rovers, or atleast
>the serial numbers thereof, will have more valuable.  How many "pre-1966 SIIA"
>SIIIs have you seen lately?

I have some questions. While it is true that the series Land Rovers are
very rare in North America, is it true that they are very common in the
UK, and in the UK, they're pretty cheap to buy/run? This is the impression
I got after reading a British Land Rover magazine. 

Also, is anyone familiar with the California Laws? Since pre-66 cars are
smog exempt, does that mean one can import a pre-66 vehicle from the UK
without government interference?

Sometimes I feel pretty fed up with all the U.S. regulations in what's
supposely a free country. Seems like all the fun cars are in England,
while all we get here are Toyota Camry's and Ford Taurus'!

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Peng                                     (408)765-7863
Intel Corporation
Design Technology, Physical CAD
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
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From: Simon Barclay <sbar@jna.com.au>
Subject: Re: Galvanising and junior framemaster
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 95 07:55:00 EST

James

Thanks for all that info.  I'm in a bit of a quandary as to whether I should 
galvanise or not at the moment.  Yesterday I spoke with a number of Land 
Rover types here in Sydney and the general consensus was "you just don't 
need to do it".  As you pointed out we don't have salted roads, and the 
metal has to be spotlessly clean to avoid any little pockets of rust being 
trapped.  I have yet to be convinced this is the way to  go.

One chap (who has 20!!! Series 1's including a handful of '48's [one of 
which is 1208 - 1206 sold for 30,000 pounds in the UK earlier this year]) 
suggested that if you are rebuilding to 'factory spec' you would certainly 
loose points for having a galvanised chassis and that a good blasting (sand 
or bead) job was sufficient.

Any thoughts out there on the subject??

Hope that all makes sense, we had our company Christmas party last night and 
the brains only firing on two at the moment!!  Beer and red wine really 
don't mix well!!  ....and I walked home!

Simon Barclay
Sydney Australia
'90 5 sp RR
'51 Series 1 (Louie)
 ----------
From: carley
Subject: Re: Galvanising and junior framemaster
Date: Thursday, 7 December 1995 5:39PM

Simon & LR readers,

this is sort of a personal reply but is of interest to Australian readers 
and maybe others.  If you want to do your galvaniSing (I prefer the S 
spelling) homework properly the best Australian ref is Hot Dip Galvanizing, 
by the Galvanizers Association of Australia,  124 Exhibition Street, 
Melbourne Victoria 3000. ISBN 0 909951 20 9

Other advice I've remembered is when getting prices check whether the price 
(per kg) is for before or after galvanising. I think it's a bit of a scam 
that some quote for the weight after galvanising - which they estimate is 
approx 5% higher than pre galv.

I get a bit of galvanising done for work. Most galv's have a min charge of 
approx $AUD 50. Last check of prices (Nov 1995) was (Sydney):

Industrial Galvanizers, 636 8244, want drawings, don't like quoting on 
weight, but just so you know how cheap it can be, their Government Contract 
rate was $AUD 0.39 per kg post gal in 1994.

Mascot Galvanising, 667 4328, $AUD 0.80 per kg pre gal
Galvanising Services, 709 3777, $AUD 0.65 per kg post gal (=add 5%)
Trico Metal Industries, 707 4299, $AUD 0.80 per kg pre gal. Trico were the 
only ones to offer reasonable pick-up and delivery for non regular 
customers.

In my experience most of them tend to be pretty unfriendly and unhelpful 
towards small timers, but I guess the product sells itself. Depending on the 
corrosivity of the environment (we don't have salted roads in Oz) you can 
expect a 25 year life for a galvanised chassis.

James Carley
'85 110 County 3.9D
(and Coastal Engineer)

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 14:03:34 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: 25 yr old Rover's 4600+ mile "maiden" voyage. (LONG!)

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: 25 yr old Rover's 4600+ mile "maiden" voyage. (LONG!)
Ray,

I don't have a lot of time to answer any specific questions right now,
but this is a posting that I made after buying my 109 in New York state
and driving it back home to Arizona. BTW, the frame was described to me
as "good", and there were actually holes in it, and parts that I poked my
finger through! Best to have a LR owner check it out for you! There are
people all over the world on this list, I had another in NY offer to drive
2+ hours each way to check this one out for me, but I declined. I've checked
out two LR's here in the Phoenix area for others, one was a '56 series I
(I found in the paper, SHOULD have bought this one myself!) that the guy
bought and LOVES, the other is a Carawagon (sort of like a Doormobile)
that I think is still for sale. ($13K but in excellent condition!)
======================== included text ==============================

Hello all! I've been looking for a Land Rover 109 for many months, and
had finally found the "perfect" truck. It's a 1970 series IIa Land
Rover, dual heaters, seating for 11 people. Good condition, with only a
few minor tears in the upholstery, and a small tear in the headliner
("L" shaped with each leg around 1"). Door panels with map pockets,
overdrive, rebuilt trans, not that much rust, (one of the outriggers is
rusted through, but still relatively solid, and one front "horn" section
of the frame has some relatively serious rust.) Only noticeable problem
areas were that the fuel gauge and speedometer/odometer didn't work, and
rear heater not working, and one unmistakable problem that I could not
possibly "live with" was the brakes. It took two pumps of the petal
before ANY brake action took place! It was a scary event just trying to
stop at the end of the driveway! I assumed that it was bleeding, but
decided to take it in and have it checked out by Rovers north in
Vermont, since it was right on the way! Oh yeah! One "minor"
complication.... I live in Phoenix Arizona, and the truck is in upstate
New York!

The actual sale had a rough beginning for me. The PO sent photos, I
e-mailed back, he answered questions, etc... and then when I was ready
to say yes, he'd sold it! Well... eventually the deal fell through, and
I was able to acquire it, so a few faxes, check in the mail, plane
tickets (I took my 15 yr old son), and we were there! (This REALLY is
much condensed!)

We arrived late in the afternoon on Tuesday May 2nd, so the first night
I only went as far as Burlington Vermont, so I could stop in at Rovers
North in the morning. My son and I took turns sleeping in the rear, and
front seat of the 109. The front seat is WAY too short for sleeping in
but worked for now. In the morning, I got directions to Rovers North,
and off we went. I passed up Rovers North, and my son shouted "There it
is!", so I had to turn around in a farmers field. Rovers North is in the
"middle of nowhere" along a road, in a barn! That's not quite what I
expected, or was looking for, but what the heck!

The people at RN were very helpful, and we had a very pleasant
experience there. I told them of the brake problem, and they informed me
that they had a waiting list for service of around 6 weeks! DOOH!! I
explained the situation, and the service manager called out his mechanic
to check it out. One step of the petal and he informed me that it wasn't
bleeding. He drove off, and left me in suspense, but I figured, well,
what ever it was, I had to have it done, so I waited. It wasn't
difficult waiting, as there were numerous Rovers to examine, 88's,
109's, military units, 110's, even an imported 110 (1989, I think) for
sale! I was drooling! I'd never seen one that was not the US spec sold
in '93. One of their staff, Lanny, who was off for that day had stopped
by, and he knew the PO, and even the PO prior to that, and recollected
that this Rover came from Buines Aries? (I think?? Or was that Bahama?
Bermuda maybe?? Bolivia?? Darn my memory!!! &-%$&-!!) This verifies the
suspicions of the PO that I bought it from, and explains the Mexican and
central American maps that were in it when he bought it. (Also, the
speedometer is in kilometers/hr.)

After a short while, (seemed really short, anyway, but could have been a
long time, as I was totally occupied talking to the guys, and checking
out all the Rovers) the truck was ready. "Oh! What was wrong?" I asked.
The brakes only needed adjusting! They also noticed that the rear drive
shaft (propeller shaft) had the wrong bolts, and caused a lot of play.
They replaced these as well, and told me that the rear end had a lot of
play, and eventually would need replacing or rebuilt.

I didn't want to do too much rough 4-wheeling with the truck being so
far from home, but near Rovers North, I found some sandy little trails
meant for 3 wheelers and quads, but I couldn't resist the temptation to
give the old girl a spin in the dirt. Well, I didn't need to put her in
4 wheel drive, but had a fun time going through the trails. Some were a
series of hills, around 3 feet tall, spaced about 8 feet apart. Lots of
wheel articulation! The old girl did very well, but creaked and clunked
with each bump due to the spring mounting bushings being bad. Sounded
kind of like a *loud* popcorn maker! Would have been embarrassing had
anyone been around. ;-)

I had been warned by the PO that the fuel gauge didn't work, but that
there was a little warning when it started to run out. Well, as luck
would have it, a few miles after passing a fuel station, it started to
sputter. Remembering what the PO had said, I quickly attempted a 3 point
turn (did I mention the turning radius was 47 feet!?? No joke!) I
totally died when the truck was almost perpendicular to the road, and
inclined at a fairly good angle with the front on the high side. Walked
to town and returned with a gallon. Still nothing. Presuming that there
was just not enough to get to the fuel pick up, I went with my son, and
we brought back 2 more gallons. Still nothing. Hmmmm.... By now, I think
I flooded it, and the battery was beginning to show serious signs of
fatigue! Some "locals" stopped to help, and offered to pull start us
with a cable that they had. This started it right up, but then when I
pulled over on a LEVEL part of the shoulder, it once again died! Now
wait just a doggone minute! This CAN'T be a fuel problem! Well, back to
basics... I popped the distributor cap, and voilla! the wire to the
points was disconnected, and just hanging there, only making sporadic
contact. It took all of about 90 seconds to find the problem, and only a
few minutes to fix, and she started right up. Total time "wasted"about 4
hours. Bought a 5 gallon fuel can at the next available city, "just in
case".

Well, on we went, towards Mt. Washington (recommended by "Lanny" at
Rovers North). We arrived at Mt. Washington around 6:00pm, and the "auto
road" to the top was closed. Well... a slight change of plans, we
proceeded to Cameron Maine since neither of us had ever been to the
Atlantic ocean. Saw the ocean, (but overslept, and missed the sunrise)
and after around half a day, went back to Mt. Washington. This time, we
arrived before closing, and took the "auto road" to the "top". Around
half way up, the road was CLOSED! What??? But I have a Land Rover! I can
make it! Sigh.... no understanding, these park ranger dude's. Well,
still, it was pretty. VERY steep road too! The admission charge included
a tape of facts about the road and such things. Even mentioned "A" 4
wheel drive vehicle that was the first to make it to the top in the dead
of winter without snow chains (or something like that), but neglected to
say that it was a Land Rover!!! Boy! I was "slightly irritated"!

WE proceeded via the "Kancamagus Highway" and then, onwards to Montreal
Canada. Montreal was a BEAUTIFUL city, as far as modern buildings, lit
up reflecting on the river and all, but everyone seemed to drive VERY
fast! (And I thought I was a fast driver!) All road signs in French,
(not a language I can read or write), and expensive petrol, (at least by
US standards) I went directly to Sault Ste. Marie to cross over to
northern Michigan. I planned out the fuel purchase so that I was real
near empty (as far as I could figure) when I left Canada, so I got the
first fuel I could find in the US. Little did I realize at the time, but
I left the fuel cap in Northern Michigan somewhere. :-( I must have been
"sleeping" when I was in Michigan, because I missed the turn off to go
towards Wisconsin, and crossed into Michigan on the wrong side of lake
Michigan. I was clueless, until I saw a sign saying "Detroit 200 miles".
SCREEEEEECH! (Well, the sound of brakes squeaking, not tires! Talk about
"anti-lock" brakes!) One u-turn (not the only one on the trip!) and
another toll, several more hours wasted, and we were on the right track!

Once in Wisconsin, at my sister's farm in Fall River, near Madison, I
was able to fix the fuel gauge, (a broken connecter on the sending unit)
and the rear heater (wire that was once spliced had come loose), and
decided to install a throttle lock (aka "cruise control") that I removed
from the other Rover I have at home. (Yes! Robed it from the "88".) Fate
once again took her toll, (What I deserve for cannibalizing the "88")
and I drilled through the clutch line to the slave cylinder. Dooh!! Had
to wait until Monday for parts store to open, then had to re-use my line
ends and they made a "new" line for me. To add insult to injury, the
throttle lock wouldn't fit right, so it never got installed.

The remainder of the trip was rather uneventful, lots of beautiful
sights, snow, lots of people staring at the Rover... a great time! Total
distance traveled (using milage charts, and adding numbers on maps) over
4600 miles! Not bad for a 25 year old truck! (Am I dumb? Or what??)

Land Rover sightings other than at Rovers North: 1-88 (vermont) 1-109
(Vermont-red, parked behind a barn) 1-Disco in Montreal, and 1-110 in
Moab Utah, (#466/500) (I can't wait to get back to Moab Utah. Very
beautiful!) and about 12-18 Range Rovers. (One RR owner offered to
trade, but I don't think he was really serious.)

Trip statistics: (somewhat estimated) ;-) # of vehicles that I passed,
around 12 (many of these re-passed me on the level roads.) # of vehicles
that passed me: 550. Maximum speed: 80ish? downhill. Minimum speed up
steep hills: around 25, 2nd gear, floored. (Actually, on a long hill
climb, 3rd was too slow, and 2nd would wind out, so I ended up at around
3/4 throttle in 2nd.) (This didn't make a lot of people very happy with
me!) :( And offers to buy the ole gal: 2, one was very serious! Why
doesn't anyone want my Disco??

Thanks for the ear... Dave.

 #=====#         #========#          ------,___
 |___|__\___     |___|__|__\___      |--'|  |  \_|_
 | _ |   |_ |}   | _ |  |   |_ |}    |  _|--+--|_  |
 "(_)""""(_)"    "(_)"""""""(_)"    ||_/_\__|__/_\_|}
                                       (_)    (_)
 1971 "88" IIa   1970 "109" IIa     1994 Discovery (for sale $30,500)
                                                   (Too hard to "draw")

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

=========================== end of included text =========================

I forgot to mention in the original posting, but the ONLY tools I brought
with were: 1 phillips screwdriver, 1 regular screwdriver, pliers, vice
grips, and a hammer. I had heard talk of "whitworth threads" and figured
none of the wrenches I had would fit anyway. Reminds me of "Forest Gump"
"Stupid is as stupid does." But I did bring one vital thing... God! Having
no radio provides a lot of opportunity to pray.

Please feel free to e-mail me if you have any more questions. Am I glad I
bought the 109? YES!!! What can I say! I'm a Land Rover owner! (AKA CRAZY!)

Dave Brown     debrown@srp.gov

 #=====#         #========#          -------,___           ________
 |___|__\___     |___|__|__\___      |--' |  |  \_|_      /__/__|__\___
 | _ |   |_ |}   | _ |  |   |_ |}    |  _ |--+--|_  |     \_/-\_|__/-\_|}
 "(_)""""(_)"    "(_)"""""""(_)"    ||_/_\___|__/_\_|}      (_)    (_)
                                       (_)      (_)
 1971 "88" IIa   1970 "109" IIa     1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover
 LIC: LION B8    Historic plates     (Too hard to "draw")  rear Lock-Right

#=======#          ________           We make a living by what we get,
|__|__|__\___     /__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
| _|  |   |_ |}   \_/-\_|__/-\_|}
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill

------------------------------
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From: Treit Le <Treit_Le@apprise.com>
Date:  7 Dec 95 14:14:45 
Subject: Miscellaneous

So I just dropped the '95 Classic for it's first oil change at 5K miles. And to 
get some squeaks, rattles, and the dreaded cellular phone call blocking wind 
noise taken care of. My receipt for the squeaks and rattles is 5 pages long!!! 
On the plus side they gave me a 20k mile Pathfinder as a loaner. Kinda wimpy. I 
definitely feel like I made the right choice.

There were a few D90 hardtops at the dealer. All white, all $32,625 with no 
options. Dunno how many were sold. The top seems to be fiberglass, not aluminum 
using the knuckle test. Am I wrong?

Reason why IIA's in the US should not appreciate that much in price - Can't 
they be imported from England with much BS because of their age? Where parts, 
gavanized frames and restorations are more reasonably priced and readily 
available. I figured on getting a real cheap RHD D110 or CT Defender in about 
20 years.

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Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 21:54:08 +0000
From: Kevan Shaw <kevan@krshaw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Jacking Points

Robert Virzi asked that I post the info about Disco jacking points:

The company is NSC Design, 1 Mid Road Industrial Estate, Prestonpans, East
Lothian EH32 9ER Scotland,
Phone, +44 1875 815400, answerphone on this number  so leave a message. The
company is run by a keen Disco driver who I have seen take his vehicle
places where only a trials motor should go!

 Apart from the jacking points he does bridging ladders, ground anchor
pickets and hold fasts and numerous other recovery bits. The last list I
have prices the jacking points at =A331 whics is less than $50, much better
than those chain lifting things that bend bumpers!

Kevan Shaw

****************Ars Longa Vita Brevis ***************
********************Tempus Fugit********************
********************Festina Lente********************

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 17:59:56 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Things that go bump in the night

On the way home last evening from the grocery (I didn't think I was carrying 
*that* much beer) on a straight-and-level road 100' from the house, I heard 
a disturbing "karunch" from the left rear.  "That sounds like the spring 
hanger parting company," sez I.  It was. :-0  Not that it was any 
surprise...I've had a galvanized rear cross member sitting in the garage for 
well over two years from now.  I just didn't want to go though the exercise 
*right now.*

Anyway...any tips and techniques on replacing the rear cross member would be 
appreciated.  I've got the usual compliment of air tools, a big angle 
grinder, a small air-power cutoff tool and can borrow a MiG welder from one 
of the club chaps.  

Charlie Haigh at RN says you *don't* have to take off the rear body tub to 
weld a bead across the top of the frame...but to tell the truth, I can't see 
how that's possible.
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 15:25:42 +0000
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: 25 yr old Rover's 4600+ mile "maiden" voyage. (LONG!)

 Dave,

 Great story!!  Always wondered what it would be like to go east and
 pick up a 109.  You had a lot of confidence in the Rover to go 4,600 mi,
 and apparently well deserved.  Good goin'  :)

 Cheers,
                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html
  

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 17:47:40 -0600 (CST)
From: Ray Harder <ccray@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Things that go bump in the night

On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Alexander P. Grice wrote:
> Subject: Things that go bump in the night
> Anyway...any tips and techniques on replacing the rear cross member would be 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> grinder, a small air-power cutoff tool and can borrow a MiG welder from one 
> of the club chaps.  
1. you can get (at least i did) a version of the same cutoff 
   blades for the big electric grinder that fit into the little 
   air cutoff tool.  they really can cut metal close and FAST.  i
   can chalk out a small area using a short piece of 3/32" 2" or
   3" strap as a pattern.  I cut it out with the electric grinder
   setup. i then use a magnet designed for welding to hold the 
   piece of 2" / 3" strap into place.  there is about a 1/8" gap 
   which is perfect for butt welding.  grind down the welds, 
   paint, and you can't see it, yet it is strong.  
   with these tools, gas ox/ac cutting is not needed.
2. the "guide to purchase and restoring a landrover" book has 
   a section on rear crossmember replacement.  one thing they
   did that i didn't was to fashon a jig from angle iron.  it
   was positioned when the old crossmember was still on and
   accurately held the position (of the tailgate hinge holes,
   for example) for reassembly.  i made x/y measurements with a steel
   tape, but their method is superior.  Lindsey Porter was the
   author...
3. if you do take the tub off or lift it up some, you can use 
   method #1 above to replace some weak areas that might be
   in the top (or bottom) of the longitutional members of the 
   frame near the rear spring mounts.
4. the rear crossmember i got had pre-installed tabs that help
   in attaching.  at the time, i was wondering how you could
   do it without the tabs.  i was un-impressed with the guage
   of metal -- i would have used thicker, but that was then.

ray harder (siia 88 (lulu))
(the money is in the mail for ROAV membership!)

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Subject: Re: Roof Rack Load Limits 
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 15:55:29 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Granville Pool wrote:

[Damage to Series/Defender LRs via overloaded roof racks]

  But worse than that
  was the damage to the Land-Rover roof.  The side panels of the roof were too
  stressed under all that weight and had to give somewhere.  The somewhere is
  the lower corners of the openings of the sliding side windows.  The aluminum
  sheeting cracked at these corners.  And I think there was some very slight
  stress evident on the back corners of the roof sides, as well.  

	Come to think of it, I recently noticed the same damage on mine.  But
I'm fairly sure that the damge came from striking a thick tree branch (8+ inches
in diameter) with the rack while driving off road at Hollister.

	I think the LR book for Africa (don't have a copy on my desk--its at
home) lists a suggested roof rack limit of 100 or 200 lbs for Series LRs.  Not
saying that the limit is strength limited, but due to roll over risks.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------
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Subject: 10,000 miles on Discovery
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 19:17:41 -0500
From: Gary Mitchelson <garym@cais.cais.com>

-- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Well, I've passed the 10,000 mile mark on my '95 Disco. To date I have not
had a problem with it. Am I doing something wrong? It has only been off-road
4 times so far. Can't wait for the snow.

--
Gary Mitchelson     
N3JPU     
garym@racalrecord.com     
Racal Recorders, Inc.     

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 20:01:13 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: Galv. parts

In reference to the recent talk about galvanising your own chassis.

I agree with all the discussion about removing paint, etc.. The only three
things I would like to add that we have heard of, and experienced are...
        > Be very thorough in your rust repair. The acid step in the galv.
process eats rust, even the rust you can't see. Make sure your repaired
chassis is ready, with everything made as good as you can make it.
        > We have had some minor problems with damaged parts. Most galv.
companies are set up as large industrial businesses, and they do parts like
light poles, gaurd rails, etc. tons at a time. Some campanies are small
enough to be careful with your parts, but make sure you tell them that your
frame is sort of fragile, and needs to return in the same form you drop it
off in. On my trips to the galv. company we use, I have seen quite a few
things dropped from fork lifts, dragged across parking lots, etc.. Make
sure you give them special instructions to be careful.
        > You also need to locate any air pockets, closed off areas, in
your frame. This is what causes the explosions and bulging talked about by
another contributor. If you find a closed off section, drill a few holes in
it, this will help eliminate bulging or possible damage.

Good luck, and happy galvanising!

Mike Smith, East Coast Rover Co.

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 20:31:14 -0500
From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas)
Subject: Re: Things that go bump in the night

>On the way home last evening from the grocery (I didn't think I was carrying 
>*that* much beer) on a straight-and-level road 100' from the house, I heard 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>appreciated.  I've got the usual compliment of air tools, a big angle 
>grinder, a small air-power cutoff tool and can borrow a MiG welder from one 
>of the club chaps.  

Sandy,

The best advice I could give you is to make sure you have a respirator with
the right filters and a well ventilated area before you start welding the
new galvanized member on.  The vapors from molten zinc are very dangerous. 
(My money is not in the mail yet for a ROAV membership)
Cheers, Randall

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Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 21:58:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Re: Things that go bump in the night

Sandy,

> Charlie Haigh at RN says you *don't* have to take off the rear body tub to 
> weld a bead across the top of the frame...but to tell the truth, I can't see 
> how that's possible.

    You're right, it isn't possible.  And yet, Randy at RN managed to do
    just that when he welded my new rear crossmember on at the last
    rally they had up there 3 years ago or whenever that was.  The real
    trick is doing it with the wiring harness in place.  He only lit it
    on fire once, and then only briefly, heh heh...

    You might see if they'll let you talk to Randy, I'm sure he can
    describe his technique in better detail than I can.  I do have some
    before-during-after pictures of him doing mine if it would help you
    to see those.

    Duncan

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Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 11:35:52 +0800 (WST)
From: TONY YATES  <tonyy@waalpha.wa.BoM.GOV.AU>
Subject: re: buying Land Rovers

On Thu, 7 Dec 1995 rpeng@cadev6.intel.com wrote:

> I have some questions. While it is true that the series Land Rovers are
> very rare in North America, is it true that they are very common in the
> UK, and in the UK, they're pretty cheap to buy/run? This is the impression
> I got after reading a British Land Rover magazine. 

Series Land Rovers are fairly common in Oz (though not as common as in UK),
are usually in pretty good condition (they don't rust here, at least not 
in Western Australia), and are reasonably priced.  There are usually a 
few in the weekend classifieds in Perth each week, priced anywhere from
A$1000 to $8000 depending on age and condition. (A$8000 will buy a very 
nice SIII, current exchange rate I think is around A$1=US$0.67).
Parts here are reasonable, though a bit more expensive than UK, and are 
easy to obtain.

We are pretty lucky here as far as rust goes.  I would think that 
galvanising would be unnecessary.  Both IIas I have owned were 20 years 
old with only small rust patches on the rear X-member and front dumb 
irons on the first and *no* rust at all on the second.

Went to Karijini National Park last weekend.  Not much 4wding to be had, 
it was just too dry, though some of the tracks and creek crossings looked 
like they might be interesting after a bit of rain.

The country is basically rugged gorges, hot nad very dry, although most 
of the gorges have water in them, even now which is the end of the dry 
season.  We hiked along a few and had swims in a few nice pools.  It was
hot. Daytime temps were around 47C(120F), and it was 35C(98F) in the tent 
at midnight.

One of the pools, Handrail Pool, is accessed by walking through a very 
narrow chasm, 3ft wide, 150ft high, which opens up into an amphitheatre 
about 150ft across full of water.  Very nice when it's stinking hot and 
you desperately need a swim, not very nice when it's guarded by a very 
aggro western brown snake (rather poisonous). =:-(

It was also very hot driving home the next day, temp gauge sat just over 
half which I thought was pretty good, but I really must get that A/C 
fixed!!!!

Cheers.

====================================================================
                                      _____________________
                                     /_____________________\
Tony Yates                          |                       |
                                    |                       |
Port Hedland                     _  | _________ _ _________ |  _
Western Australia               |-| |[_________] [_________]| |-|
                                |_|  -----------------------  |_|
                                   \|  \ =============== /  |/
A.Yates@bom.gov.au                   =======================
                                    |o  _ |===========| _  o| 
Opinions expressed                 /|  (_)|===========|(_)  |\
here are almost but                ||o____|===========|____o||
not quite entirely                 ||_______________________||
unlike those of the                \[_______________________]/
Bureau of Meteorology.              |\|/|---\_/---------|\|/|
                                    |\|/|               |\|/|
                                    -----               -----
=====================================================================
                    

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From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 23:35:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Water ingestion by engine - ick!

Al waters his oil...
 
> What I ended up doing was putting a piece of fuel hose on the stub and
> routing it up the side of the filler nec, holding it in place with 3
> wire ties. This way, it's able to vent and t's not pointing forward to
> ingest water......double ick!
-

No,no... What you're supposed to do (according to Dixon) is to run a hose
from the filler neck down to the frame, so the oil vapors vent into the
frame...

Cheers
Mike

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From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 23:51:51 -0500
Subject: How many are left ??

All;   I was wondering if anybody out there would have any idea as to how
many 1960's 5 door 109's are left in the states ??? Same goes for SWB slll 's
 anybody have any idea.??..... Which will be worth more in the future????
  any thoughts, comments appreciated     Thanks..........Holiday Cheer to All
        Steve  WA2GMC   72 s lll 88

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From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: breather pipe routing
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 16:14:04 +1030 (CST)

> No,no... What you're supposed to do (according to Dixon) is to run a hose
> from the filler neck down to the frame, so the oil vapors vent into the
> frame...

No No Mike you've still got it wrong!  Dont try to weasel out of it by blaming
dixon either..

What *I* do is run a 19mm piece of poly pipe the length of the vehicle
terminating  Very close to the end of the exhaust pipe.  That way you cant
distinguish the blow-by from exhaust smoke, and you dont have to explain to
Mr Plod why you have oil leaking from the chassis below the drivers door.

cheers
-- 

  Daryl

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Subject: Re: How many are left ?? 
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 22:38:21 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199512080452.XAA04080@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote:

> All;   I was wondering if anybody out there would have any idea as to how
> many 1960's 5 door 109's are left in the states ??? Same goes for SWB slll 's
> anybody have any idea.??..... Which will be worth more in the future????
> any thoughts, comments appreciated

	If we could get the parts vendors to agree to let a neutral party
pool thier databases, we'd have a good guess.  But the likelyhood of that
happening is very small, at best.

	In general, the guess is that 16,000 Series Land Rovers were imported
to North America up to 1974.  Since then there have been various Series Rovers 
imported, but I have no idea as to the quauntity.   A gut feel guess, based on
zero data would be no more than 50 per year (on average), making the total
number of Series Rovers imported to be about 17,000.  A number of years
ago the guess was the between 8,000 and 12,000 of the origional 16,000 imported
were left, with maybe 4,000 registers for road use.  Lately there have been
a lot of restorations, so that number may be significantly up.

	Now to the question at hand.  For the period of 1959 to 1963 there
are no records asto how many Rovers were sold in North America.  In 1964, 952 
were sold.  In the period of 1949 to 1958 the best guess by the experts are 
that about 100 Rovers were sold per year.  James Taylor claims that the
952 sale number was greater than previous years.  In 1965, 1840 Rovers 
were sold in NA.  So in 1960, somewhere between 100 and 900 Rovers were
sold, many of which I think were 88s.  So, the upper bound would have to be
300 (plus additional imports).  *My* guess is 100 or 200 to start with, and
an unknown number have survived. 

	What data is known is listed in the FAQ:
http://owens.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/FAQ.3.LR_sales_US.html
    or
ftp://owens.ridgecrest.ca.us/pub/users/bens/FAQ/LR_FAQ.3

(If you know of any addition concrete data, please send it to Dixon or I so we
can update the FAQ.)

	If only I could grep through the various DMV databases for the 50
states on the word Rover....

	Just to put all of this in prespective LRNA's goals for US sales in
1995 was 12,000 Discos, 5,000 Range Rovers (mk2), 1,500 D90s and 1,900 Range
Rover Classics.  (This was in either LRO or LRW a few months back).  I wonder
how close they made it.  Maybe Jim Pappas could clue us in...

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

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Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:37:48 +0800 (WST)
From: TONY YATES  <tonyy@waalpha.wa.BoM.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: breather pipe routing

On Fri, 8 Dec 1995, Daryl Webb wrote:

 > No,no... What you're supposed to do (according to Dixon) is to run a hose
 > from the filler neck down to the frame, so the oil vapors vent into the
 > frame...
 No No Mike you've still got it wrong!  Dont try to weasel out of it by blaming
 dixon either..
 
 What *I* do is run a 19mm piece of poly pipe the length of the vehicle
 terminating  Very close to the end of the exhaust pipe.  That way you cant
 distinguish the blow-by from exhaust smoke, and you dont have to explain to
 Mr Plod why you have oil leaking from the chassis below the drivers door.

Even better - inject the blow-by into the exhaust, ignite it, and you
have - *afterburner*

Tony
(supersonic) 110 V8.

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From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: breather pipe routing
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 17:53:20 +1030 (CST)

Tony advises:
> Even better - inject the blow-by into the exhaust, ignite it, and you
> have - *afterburner*

Thought about the inject bit but I figured the plastic pipe would melt, and
there was no way I was going to use anything more expensive than poly pipe.

cheers
-- 

  Daryl

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