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Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 21:52:14 +1100 (EST)
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: bull bars

here in Oz, ADR 69 (frontal impact survivability etc) requires
that bull bars either be certified by the vehicle manufacturer
or be crash tested to certify that they do not
     1. affect survivability or
     2. trigger the air-bag incorrectly (if fitted)
see http://www.sofcom.com.au/4WD/Conv/ADR.html
ADR 69 applies to new models from mid 1995 and all new cars from Jan 96.

I have not heard of anyone actually doing crash testing yet.
I have talked to a gent who has done computer simulations
of bull-bars striking 'roos for the bar makers.
I've also seen a plastic bull-bar on the front of a Rangie HSE
and seem to recall that it's approved or certified (?) by L-R.
It was quite strong enough for parking-by-feel.

Lloyd

------------------------------

Date: 19 Nov 95 07:51:31 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Magazine spam

> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- ...
...etc...bla bla... ad naus.

Is that some kind of chain letter - snowball spam? Remember seeing it
before from a totally different source. Maybe Majordomo could do with a
routine to filter out such crap.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 08:37:30 -0500
From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall B. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Ice....

Tony wrote:
>(Average max temp here >36C for next 4.5 months)
>Seriously though, is there any reason NOT to remove the thermostat from 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>Tony.
>85 110V8
The biggest problem you would have with removing the thermostat is
condensation.  The amount of moisture that builds up in your engine depends
alot on your driving habits, i.e. if you're taking many short trips it will
make it worse.  The engine won't have a chance to heat up long enough to
evaporate and burn the moist air that collects inside the engine every time
you let it cool down. So you'll end up collecting water in your engine. This
results in heavy sludge buildup over a very short time, thus constricting
oil passages and also quickly clogging the engine vents which then leads to
a pressurized crankcase, blown oil seals, then oil leaks and a messy engine
and driveway.  If you are using the Rover for long over the road or off road
trips you could probably get away with it.  The Rover V8 is already
notorious for sludge, although it has much improved with the advent of EFI.

If your V8 is fuel injected, this could cause some problems since it adjusts
mixture based on engine water temp. You could see your mpg/kpg go south.

If you're having problems with heating, look elsewhere first.  I was stuck 2
years ago in a 100 deg (fahrenheit) traffic jam in Washington DC with 5
people in the Range Rover, the AC at full, for 2-1/2 hours and the temp
guage never went past midpoint, and my 88RR isn't equipped with an oil
cooler.  The cooling systems are plenty sufficient.

Cheers
Randall Thomas
Lancaster County, Pennsylvania USA
88RR
67 IIA 88"
70 P6B

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 19 Nov 95  9:21:56 EST
Subject: Re:Why keep the thermostat?

Actually, having it in there keeps your engine at the optimum temperature for 
operation. Without it, you'll be driving around on a perpetually "cold" engine, 
and your performance and fuel mileage will suffer as a result.

I've actually had to do that more than once (not with my LR, though) and 
driveability suffered badly because the engine  couldn't retain enough heat for 
proper combustion chamber temperatures (or so it seemed).

Leave it in - your engine will thank you.

   aj"I am NOT a madman!"r

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 15:32:06 +0100
From: Sune Cullberg <sunecoll@algonet.se>
Subject: Re: Chains etc

Yes, the winter is here in Sweden now (at least this wekend) with 
30-100 cm of snow and wind in excess of 30m/s (friday).Put my snow 
tires on my 85 Range Rover and time to play. Great fun! My newly 
tested opinion on chains is, if you (as I) only have one pair put 
them in front.Lock centre diff, or else you have no help from your 
chains as the other axle spin and possible ruin the centre diff. Of 
course I never drive this setup on dry road for a lot of reasons. My 
only problem this far is my new SU carbs tends to freeze more easily 
then the old strombergs.Of course I have checked the hot air system 
to the aircleaner but with engine covered in snow...

*Sune Cullberg 
*Gothenburg,Sweden
sunecoll@algonet.se
http://www.algonet.se/~sunecoll

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 11:05:53 -0500
Subject: KEEP THE THERMOSTAT

The cooling system is designed with the thermostat as an integral part of the
system. It is required for proper coolant flow pressure and  distribution in
the block and head. Taking it out can cause local internal overheating and
potentially temperature gradients large enough to crack the head. KEEP IT.
 

------------------------------

From: Admit1Fest@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 11:24:44 -0500
Subject: 1996 Discovery verses Used Range Rover

I am curious as to the opinion of the LRO list subscribers regarding the
purchase  of a new Discovery verses a used late model Range Rover. Perhaps
those better informed could communicate which vehicle is the better choice
for a driver who will, like many of the owners of newer Land Rovers, rarely
use the vehicle for off road transportation.

In addition, are there Range Rover model years that are better avoided due to
reliability concerns?

Your comments on the aforementioned will certainly be appreciated.

Sincerely,

Mark Novey
Admit1Fest@aol.com

------------------------------

Date:  Sun, 19 Nov 1995 11:21:00 -0500 
From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" <chrisz@bnr.ca>
Subject:  Re: Discovery decision 

In message " Dealer-installed Sunroof and negotiations", Admit1Fest@aol.com 
writes:
>I was reviewing your recent posting on the LRO list and noticed that you are
>a  Discovery owner. I am contemplating the purchase of a 1996 Discovery and
>would appreciate an owner's point of view. Would you care to share your
>experiences with this vehicle? I would really appreciate your assistance.

>Sincerely,
>Mark Novey
>would appreciate an owner's point of view. Would you care to share your
>experiences with this vehicle? I would really appreciate your assistance.
Hi Mark,

In a phrase, I love it. I do a bit of off-roading and I've had two CJ-7s
in the past.

To me the vehicle is good value for money when you consider the following:
    +) It is structurally much stronger than most of the other vehicles
       (possibly excluding the big Chevies)
    +) The aluminum body and heavy steel frame means it won't rust
       out in 10 years like everything else in this area
    +) It is the most capable off-roader I have driven stock in its
       class (I did not try the Mercedes or Hummers on purpose and the
       Defender was not ideal for the family).
    +) It has a good tall cargo area even if it is a bit short.

I really like the overall general feel of the vehicle when driving and
my passengers like the higher bench seat in the back.

The other vehicles in its class are decent vehicles except for the Ford
Explorer. If you like Ford's then the Bronco is probably a better choice.

On the negative side, some of the interior manufacturing was a bit sloppy
    - Cruise control was non-functional (loose wire)
    - There was a small rip in the seat ( the cloth seats seem a little
      flimsy)
    - Turn indicators (left side) failed intermitantly

Although I find these things unacceptable it is unfortunately very common
on all brands and models of vehicles I have ever seen. Being in the
engineering field I understand that the manufacturers have to balance
the quality vs. cost equation. What was important to me was that the
engineering of the Discovery looks solid.

I bought an off-roader because I like to do off-roading and I tend to
take long trips (>1000km) during the winter months in Canada. If you 
don't do either then buying an off-roader is over kill and there are 
much more sensible options. On the other hand, if you have the money 
there is nothing wrong with being influenced by your emotions.

When you're spending this kind of money, the vehicle better bring a 
smile to your face. I am happy to say that my Discovery gives me a big
grin every time I drive it.

I also wanted to mention that my dealer has been excellent! This includes
the sales and service reps. When I brought it in for warranty work they
gave me a loaner and cleaned my car all with a smile and absolutely no
hastle. If you saw how dirty the Rover was going into the shop you'ld
know this was not trivial. The mechanic (Jason) is a SIII owner and I 
believe with OVLR which gives me a great deal of confidence.

Good luck with your decision.

Cheers,

  -Christian
--------------
Christian Szpilfogel
'95 Discovery
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

From: paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash)
Subject: Re: greasing leaf springs
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 10:51:04 +1100

My father had a number of WO Bentley cars (in the days before vintage
cars were fashionable), and had a spring-greasing tool.  It looked
like a thing cold-chisel, with a hole drilled 3/4 the way down the
length, starting at the sharp end, and a grease nipple inserted 1/2
way down the length, from the side.

You loostened the leaf clamps (but left shackles & U-bolts alone),
then put the sharp end between two leaves & basked the back.  One
it was wedged in between the leaves, you applied a grease-gun to the
nipple and injected grease into the centre of the spring.

The manuals used to recommend greasing springs at 1000 or 5000 mile
intervals (it was a long time ago), as this helps to keep the springs
flexible, stops rust and flushes out road dirt.  Roads in the '20s 
were mostly unsealed, and there are a lot of similarities between
6 1/2 Bentleys and series Land Rovers, but they _were_ designed for
slightly different use :-)

	paul

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 10:15:32 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub se

LROs All,

I suggest that we ALL forward copies of the LRO Digest to this freeloading
parasite (krazykev@kjl.com) until he throws in the towel and takes steps
to insure that there will be no more of these bogus messages.  Think 
of the jamb that 2 or 3 hundred copies of the digest would create in his 
inbox.  The subject ought to be changed, of course, to something to do 
with subscriptions to force each one to be opened.  Better yet, forward 
all manner of stuff to this clown.  The bigger the better.

I too would like to know if there is a way to filter out such crap, but
until that happens, we need to make it as unpleasant as possible for those
who stand to gain from Internet junk mail.  I have an uncomfortable
feeling that if this kind of thing goes unchallenged we will see much more
of it in the future. 

On Sat, 18 Nov 1995, David Rosenbaum wrote:

>  I too "replied" to the first message from Japan (keep your &%$@ junk 
> mail off of the Land Rover Owner Digest!), and message got returned. 

> Then, I sent back the included form and got a reply from the 
> Krazy Kevin Mag Club by "Kevin Jay Lipsitz, President" <krazykev@kjl.com>

> You might send your opinion to <krazykev@kjl.com>. Even better, if we get 
> more of that junk mail, there's now an address to forward it to.

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 15:40:52 -0500
Subject: Spray Paint

All............. Have found a good source for Land-Rover  paints in 16 oz.
spray cans.  Call Tower Paint at 1-800-779-6520 .  They will custom mix and
ship within 2-3 days from receipt of your order, just provide them with the
paint code of the colors you need.  prices are reasonable and as they have no
minimum order, they will even make a single can .

                                                                         just
in case you need these code #s LIMESTONE  38505a

                                                                       PASTEL
GREEN  38504a

                                                                      Regards
to all     Steve  WA2GMC      72 slll 88

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 05:11:28 +0800 (WST)
From: TONY YATES  <tonyy@waalpha.wa.BoM.GOV.AU>
Subject: thermostat

That noise in the background is me dropping the spanner ...

Good response guys. Ta.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 18:33:51 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Strange lights...

Came across a "new" Land Rover today...some folks nearby have just purchased 
a IIa 109 safari (didn't get much other info).  This Rover has the front 
turn signals in these little pods on top of the wings.  I've seen this 
before...usually on vehicles fitted with front jerry cans.  As all seem to 
be similar, is this a factory mod or what?  And if so...what years?
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Ice... In Pt Hedland ???
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 10:27:14 +1030 (CST)

> Seriously though, is there any reason NOT to remove the thermostat from 
> my motor.  I figure that it isn't really necessary here and I might get 
> better cooling without the restriction.

Actually Tony you'd probably get worse cooling without the restriction, the
flow rate on the open road would be so high that the dwell time in the
radiator would drop dramatically.  I've seen it many times on an assortment
of cars in Darwin NT.  People pull out the thermostat, and the car runs
hotter.  Dont know if the same would apply to the rover V8 but...

If you want a bit more "head room" drop to a 160 F thermo from the 180.
Dont really know if there are negative side effects to running the lower temp
thermostat, but It makes you feel good when even on the hottest day the temp
guage doesnt climb much above half way.....

Just my idle thoughts
-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 19:17:25 -0500
From: ac443@osfn.rhilinet.gov (John Karlsson)
Subject: re:  SPOTs to come

Paul Nash:
 
When I was faced with leaking swivels and lack of energy to perform a proper
repair, I perpetrated a SPOT of my own.  I took a pair of new swivel seals and
cut the seals so I could fit them without performing major surgery on the
front axle.  Of course, the cut was at the top after fitting.  Puting the cut
at the bottom would be the real SPOT.
 
John Karlsson
Hope Valley, RI USA

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 20:18:41 -0500
From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall B. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Ice...thermostat

>> Seriously though, is there any reason NOT to remove the thermostat from 
>> my motor. 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>thermostat, but It makes you feel good when even on the hottest day the temp
>guage doesnt climb much above half way.....
I used to put the coldest thermostat I could find in my MGB in the summer.
All it would do would buy me an extra 10 minutes until the engine overheated
if I got stuck in traffic on a hot day. Watching that needle rise was like
watching the sand fall through an hourglass.

A futile exercise in forestalling the inevitable.

Randall

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 19:44:41 -0600
From: j-schonberg@nwu.edu (Jeffrey Schonberg)
Subject: Brakes Squealing on New Range Rover

Hello,

Has there been any discussion concerning disk brakes squealing on new Range
Rovers (1995 County Classic)?  After the first week (and 500 fun miles!) of
driving my new truck I was told by Rover service department that the
squealing I experienced was "normal" due to the glazing on the new pads.
This sounds fishy to me.  They recommended that I drive it for another week
before re-evaluating.  Any help (including a better explanation) would be
much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 18:34:42 +0000
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Elec. Fans (Was: Ice...thermostat)

 Randall B. Thomas <rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net> writes:
:I used to put the coldest thermostat I could find in my MGB in the summer.
:All it would do would buy me an extra 10 minutes until the engine overheated
:if I got stuck in traffic on a hot day. Watching that needle rise was like
:watching the sand fall through an hourglass.

 No doubt a candidate for an electric fan, either as a primary or secondary
 unit.  Has anyone installed an electric fan for their Series Rover, Lucas
 permitting? :)

                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^+++++   '65 IIA 2.235m/88"
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------

Subject: URLs for LRO list: http://www.senie.com/billc/lr/
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 21:41:19 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@OpenMarket.com>

Hi  if you've got web pages and either mention the LRO list and the
mailing address, or have a copy of some previous (OLD OUT OF DATE) information
for the mailing list, PLEASE, PLEASE replace these references with a 
POINTer to the pages at  

		http://www.senie.com/billc/lr/

The old majordomo text page is near useless and has an old address.
VERY VERY soon, all that old address WILL break.

If you _really_ want to keep a local copy for some reason, please don't
without contacting me first.

	Thanks,
		-B

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 22:05:32 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Inertia belts

I've fitted the inertia belts into a Series...it's easy -if you keep a few 
things in mind.  The lower fixing point at the bottom corner of the door and 
seatbox can be reused, as can the fixing for the buckle-end mounts inboard  
(between the seats).  I mounted the reel itself on the top of the bulkhead 
using grade eight bolts.  

The only problem is the upper mounting point.  Rovers North (and other 
suppliers, I imagine) sells a triangular bracket that bolts between the door 
and window frame (on an 88).  I removed the facsia panel and lo and behold, 
there was a captive nut *already* in place - *and* it was some weird metric 
thread that the hardware manufactured 20 years later fit.  Now mine is one 
of the first thousand Series III's built; it has one metric bolt (deep in 
the tranny), yet here was a metric nut ready for the seat belt.

So, If you have a series III, fitting the inertia reels is quick and easy.  
The only problem is when ordering just one "side" at a time.  Because of the 
expense and uncertainty of application, I ordered just the "drivers" side 
from RN, but of course, got the one that fit the right side of the 
vehicle....Cheers
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 22:05:36 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: The Major is having fits...

What's up with the major??...though there were 45 messages in the header for 
18 November, only the first 30 were transmitted...or at least, were received 
on this end.  However, as the Major's closing comments appeared intact, I 
can only assume something is happening on the sending end.
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 22:30:44 -0500
Subject: Range Rover Squeaking Spedometer

The squeaking noise comming from my '89 RR speedometer/speedometer cable is
starting to annoy me so I am going to spend the time to get behind the
instrument pannel cowl and lubricate the cable and speedometer.

Any tips on what lubricant to use? I hope to use something that will last for
a while. I am not sure if I should use a light oil like WD-40, a sewing
machine oil, or graphite powder.

While I am working on the dash to get rid of the speedometer noise I want to
get rid of two other minor annoyances:  The key in ignition buzzer (or as it
is called in the workshop manual the audible warning unit) and the interior
light delay.  Can I just pull the plugs on these things? or will I cause some
sort of problems?  Thanks

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 00:26:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Strange lights...

Sandy asks..

- a IIa 109 safari (didn't get much other info).  This Rover has the front 
- turn signals in these little pods on top of the wings.  I've seen this 
- before...usually on vehicles fitted with front jerry cans.  As all seem to
- be similar, is this a factory mod or what?  And if so...what years?

>From what I've heard, the "pods" were supplied from a company in Germany -
for use with the jerry cans. Haven't a clue as to the years. Of course, this
may be all bull, but who knows. If you see the truck again, check out the
lights closely - see if they are Lucas or something else. May be a clue as
to the origin.. maybe not.

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

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