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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 09:45:02 +0001
From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili)
Subject: Re: Hippie trail to India

I've seen this docu too, a fortnight ago. The bloke was then in Greece
talking to a guy who is *walking* around the world with his dog( a German
Shepard). In the background the bloke in the red Jeep was accompanied by a
white LandRover D90.
LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR
                ____
      |   _____/|__||   Roy Wassili,<wassili@amc.uva.nl>
      |  /(-8|  \   |   Avalon Green '95 Dicovery,
  ____|_/[]__|__\___|#  scarved for live
 |] __=|     |  __  |#
[|_/  \|_____|_/  \_|]
  ( o )        ( o )

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: WHyinhell is it a BREAKFAST, of all things?
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 9:24:36 GMT

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
> 	No it ain't...  A grille is a grille.  The breakfast is the entire
> 	radiator support, er, breakfast, that goes between the wings, the
> 	grille attaches to it etc...
Personally,I prefer my breakfast fried,rather than grilled.......
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 21:45:19 +1100 (EST)
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: it is a grille

I had never heard the term breakfast (in this context) until
subscribing to this list.  Maybe the etymology is
   grille -> breakfast grille -> breakfast
(Grilled food is a likely option for breakfast at Fawlty Towers.)

1994 production figures
RR 17,952;  Disco 54,499;  Def 22,265;  total 94,716
http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/Sales.html

I don't know what was the matter with the list since Saturday.
My guess is that the machine fell over during the weekend.
Bill C's is back in circulation and he said the guys were
sent on a piss-up, at least I think that's what he said.

Lloyd

------------------------------

From: multicom@multicom.dungeon.com (Paul Garside)
Date: 14 Nov 1995 11:25:06 GMT
Subject: subscription please

subscribe

------------------------------

Subject: LR off-road event at White Tail
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 07:04:21 -0500
From: Gary Mitchelson <garym@cais.cais.com>

-- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

My dealer here in the Washington DC area sent out invitations to a LR off-
road event at White Tail ski resort in PA on 19 Nov. Anyone else on the list
going? I am not sure if this is for just HBL customers or if several dealers
will have customers there.
--
Gary Mitchelson                    
garym@racalrecord.com           
N3JPU

------------------------------

From: Danny Phillips <danny@tlpgate.lonpar.co.uk>
Subject: program on bbc about going to india.
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 12:43:45 GMT

dear all, i must just tell you, as a follow up to our german friends (forgot his name) post about the beeb prog. they met a german who has been on the road in
his 110 with ex landie (half a lr again) for 4 years (yes 4). he sold up and
shipped out, met his wife on the road, and takes various animals with him (i
think 4 dogs and at leadst 1 cat (no collies though)).

this 110 was amazing. he had fabircated an ally roof ext that kept them cool 
even across the sahara. it also doubled as security with all sorts of bits 
locking up here and there.

but the best bit was he had long range water tanks fitted, marked 
'WATER (or BEER)'. who says the germans have no sense of humour. maybe it was 
the car he drove (i like to think so), but it was the brit who was a bit 
arrogant and standoffish.

lastly, i really can't believe that they have sent a man and camera crew (3 
members so 4 in all) across land from the uk to india in a jeep wrangler.

lastly (i lied) talking of jeeps, we have now got them over here, the local 
dealer has a wrangler on the front that is a K late (3 yrs old) and 17,000 on the clock. has a nice stainless a bar on the front bumper, and has a large patch
or rust emerging from under the a bar fixing. i was there with a mate as he was
looking for a toy otter mr2 (sad boy, but they had one). the dealer looked aroud the disco, and said what do you want to trade it in against a cherkokee,
don't know why but he looked hurt when i just laughed and said he had to be
joking.

p.s. i have to admit that my roo bars have rust on them, but thats were the 
wife and i scrapped them against some rocks in a quarry our club was in.

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 14 Nov 95  8:01:35 EST
Subject: Anybody heard from the gent with the Macintosh?

There was a gentleman here (oh, a month or two ago) who was having trouble 
reading the digest on his Macintosh. I sent him some SIMMs, and was wondering 
how he made out with them but I've lost his address (embarassingly enough). 
Anybody remember who he was?

       Al Richer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 14:37:21 +0100
From: sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Kurt Reinhardt)
Subject: former digests

Hi folks out there,
I am unabble to get the digests of 12th and 13th this month, even with the
get yymmdd command from majordomo. If someone has them still on his harddisk
I would be glad if he could send them to me.
Thanks for your effort
Kurt

Kurt.Reinhardt@unidui.uni-duisburg.de

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Breakfast
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 08:48:00 EST

Al Richer asks why is it a breakfast and Dixon Kenner replies "Because it 
is"
Dixon, I think the answer is in your reply.

Its the whole thing not just the Grille. breakfast comes from a grille 
therefore the Grille and everything on it is the Breakfast.

Any advance on this theory of language development?

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 10:01:30 EST
Subject: 109 SW petrol tank replacement

Jeremy,

Just replaced the original tank on my LHD 1960 109 SW.  I 
got the new (non-Genuine) tank from Famous Four at about 
1/4th the cost of the Genuine here in the US.  Add shipping 
from UK, and the special paint job I had put on, and it was 
still less than the $400 quoted for Genuine.

Found that the fuel level float assembly that came out of 
the original tank required the mounting hole in the new tank 
to be enlarged slightly.  (Ser IIA or III might be OK as is, 
though.)  The threads in the tank for mounting the float 
matched some generic SS screws I had, so the new screws went 
in.  Used Permatex aviation form-a-gasket to seal the float 
and the pick-up tube.  RH forward tank mounting bolt 
(opposite exhaust side) was a bear to install; other 3 easy. 
 Filled her up last night for first time in a while, and 
everything is fine.  

My frame seemed to have two mounting locations on each side 
at the front end, I guess because non-SW and/or Diesel 
versions used different (slightly shorter?) tanks.  

If I ever take the body off, I'd want to weld some kind of 
stud to the frame for the front mounting points, especially 
on the RH side.  Consider it.

I plan on hot-tanking the old tank and setting it aside for 
future repair.  Perhaps some kind of epoxy to fully line the 
interior, like with "wet wing" aircraft.  In 35 more years, 
I guess it'll be time to change tanks again, and the 
restored original will be good to have.

Let me know if you have further questions.

Regards,
Hank

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 08:16:28 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Washer Systems?

Snip
 tim harincar asks:
snip
> Anyhow, I'm planning to add such a system, based on parts from RN, and was 
> wondering if anyone else has added one, and what any pitfalls might be.

I found that the sytems that mount the nozzle on the wiper arm work 
the best if you have a bonnet mounted spare. When I got mine I had to 
get one for a GMC motorhome, but quite a few autos use that system 
now.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 14 Nov 95  9:11:46 EST
Subject: Re: Breakfast

Re: Breakfast and the front of a Land-Rover:

Personally, I thought it was due to the unattractive design of the Rover's 
front appearance being likened to a  "Dog's Breakfast".  

Of course, considering some of the unappetizing fryups I had when last in 
London, there is a striking resemblance...8*)

  Waiting for the flames to commence...
  ..and hoping everyone realizes this was tongue in cheek  -Alan

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Re: Breakfast
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 09:40:00 EST

Alan Richer wrote
|  Waiting for the flames to commence...
|  ..and hoping everyone realizes this was tongue in cheek  -Alan

Aren't  "flames" normal when cooking breakfast on the grille

Trevor "Cordon Bleu" Easton

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 14 Nov 95 09:37:39 EST
From: Patty Burke <PBURKE@american.edu>
Subject:      cautious optimism

Many thanks for the responses to my query regarding my hopes for LONG-TERM
Disco reliability.  I would never rely on Consumer Ragports for ANY purchase,
yes, even a micro-wave.  I find many of their testing procedures ridiculous
(anyone ever read the mattress report??) and conclusions thus suspect.
It is good to have this list as an alternative.

(Personally, I've been impressed by the braking for such a heavy vehicle).

After reading many of the posts and my e-mail, I'm encouraged that some
of these "dinky" problems might not be an indication of overall quality.
I am still concerned by reports of electrical cable shortings, bent
steering dampers and so on, but hope these are isolated instances.

Please keep posting your positive reports (especially interested in hearing
from '94 owners with significant mileage) as well as the nagging ones.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 08:16:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Slade <slade@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Unique Sighting

Quoting from the East Coast Rover Co.'s newsleter from earlier this 
summer,
"An amazing order or 8 SIIA's for Jim Carey's upcoming Ace Ventura Pet 
Detective movie.  These vehicles were built by us in a three week period 
for the fil company!  We all needed a few days off after that one."

East Coast Rover Co. is located in Maine (USA), and I have spoken w/the 
owner Mike Smith many times.  We talked about the movie (which at the 
time they didn't know the title), and he said that they had two or three 
(can't remember now) full runners, but the rest were just cosmetically 
identical with unrepairable running gear, no engines/gearboxes etc.  
Those were the stand-ins for the runners.  

Apparently they blew up a few of them in the movie.  I'm sure they didn't 
destroy the runners.  

ECR's phone # is 207 785 3614.  Feel fre to call if you want more info.

BTW I have no affiliation with ECr.

Later,

Michael

On 
Tue, 14 Nov 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> David McKain sez...
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)]
> Cheers
> Mike

slade@teleport.COM  Public Access User -- Not affiliated with Teleport
Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-1016 (2400-28800, N81)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 08:54:16 -0800
From: cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese)
Subject: Discovery snow chains?

How strange that Land Rover sells chains for Discoveries. The manual rather
firmly forbids them. Of course, in California (I live in the mountains east
of LA) we're all required to carry chains when it snows. I was, as a decoy,
just going to carry the old ones from the Acura Integra I traded in for my
Discovery. I'm guessing that the brake disks and possibly the alloy wheels
on the Discovery would be harmed by chains. A friend has a Jeep Cherokee and
he's not allowed to use chains either.

In any case, I bought a Discovery so I wouldn't have to use chains ever
again. If the snow were bad enough that I'd have to put chains on, I'd have
no business driving anyway!

Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 beluga black Discovery

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 09:11:33 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Breakfast

> Alan Richer wrote
> |  Waiting for the flames to commence...
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> Aren't  "flames" normal when cooking breakfast on the grille
> Trevor "Cordon Bleu" Easton

Certainly with the Series III grille.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Ross Leidy <ross@secant.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 12:01:06 0500
Subject: LRNA recall notice found

My grandfather spotted this notice in Oct 95 Trailer Life magazine. I had
not seen any postings about it, so I thought it best to pass it along. 
Does anyone have any first-hand knowledge about this one?

"Land Rover North America Incorporated is recalling 155 (1995) Range Rover
Country Classic, Defender and Discovery SUVs for
replacement of incorrect driveshaft-retention nuts.  Dealers
will replace the incorrect hardware with hardware of the appropriate
specifications."

______________________________________________________
Ross Leidy  (ross@secant.com)
Secant Technologies, Inc.
95 D-90 #3032

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 12:22:52 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Fuel For Your Boredom

Howdy!  Just got back from Beantown(Boston), nice trip. Drove the Rover up
11 hours, arriving 3am. Heater worked good (squirrels on vacation), "cold"
weather, no big problems.  Drove down to Cape Cod, denied beach driving
permit for lack of tow-rope and 18" square of plywood. (40 bucks for permit
anyway had to pass on that one) Found some nice (short) fire roads, not
much of a challenge for the Rover. Got myself into a tight spot (forgot to
lock hubs, duh, duh, duh) and dented the left front wing by the sidelight.
No biggie but it was extra stupid, the obstacle would have been no prob had
i actually been in 4wheel drive. Duh. lucky i didn't break an axle I guess.
Picked up a couple of toys, one's a IIb(?)Forward Control made by Husky,
and the other is the Matchbox "Land Rover Safari" with loaded roofrack.
Return trip to DC yesterday, left at 11:00am, all fluids checked, etc.
Expecting 11 hours again. In Connecticut, still 400 miles from home, the
radiator starts dumping antifreeze all over the engine compartment. A small
leak coming from betweeen the fins of the rad, then dispersed by the fan.
Filled up rad, kept going, running a little hotter than usual but nothing
alarming. Same routine next 400 miles, overall trip time 12.5 hours. Actual
hearing loss, 5.73%. Anyone have a spare rad? Can these things be
recored/fixed? Or should I just replace and not have to worry about the
"next leak"?
Cheers
Dave Bobeck
Washington DC USA
Series III SWB, "Green Car"- Named after color of puddles she makes.
dbobeck@ushmm.org

------------------------------

From: Ross Leidy <ross@secant.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 12:41:38 0500
Subject: Low MPG in new D90

With approximately 900 miles of low-speed, break-in style driving on my
one-month old D90, my wife and I took it to visit relatives in nearby
Pittsburgh, PA.  I figured that moderate highway speeds would be safe, and
the 140 mile highway trip would give me a chance to check the MPG.  We had
severe headwinds and crosswinds the entire trip, so I figured the gas
mileage would be poor.  I was right; 13 MPG.  After a pleasant visit, we
began our return trip.  There was a bit of rain, but there was no wind.  It
was perfect weather to get a good benchmark.  When we arrived back in
Cleveland, I filled the tank, performed the complicated arithmetic, and to
my surprise, I still got 13 MPG.  I thought I would at least get the 16 MPG
estimate shown on the window sticker.  

Has anyone else experienced similar behaviour?  Perhaps related:  during
idle, the engine seems to shudder every few seconds.  It's not enough to
affect the tach, but it's definitely noticable.  Is this normal for the 30
year old engine design?  Any ideas?  Should I simply buy stock in petroleum
companies?

______________________________________________________
Ross Leidy  (ross@secant.com)
Secant Technologies, Inc.
95 D90 (#3032)

------------------------------

From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com
Subject: re: Discovery
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 10:14:09 PST

>Found out something else interesting in the process.  Land Rover only
>produces 45,000 Discoveries a year.  Of these 20,000 are kept for the U.K.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>'95 Discovery
>San Francisco, California

Don't listen to the salesmen at the SF dealership. If you come down
to San Jose, there are plenty of Discoveries on the lot of San Jose
Land Rover on Steven's Creek Blvd.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Peng                                     (408)765-7863
Intel Corporation
Design Technology, Physical CAD
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Wes Newman <newmanpp@corcomsv.corcom.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 10:20:03 AST

Addressed to: Brent Chapman <Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net>
              Brent Chapman <lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net>

index land-rover-owner
index lro-digest

____________________
Wes Newman
Anchorage,  Alaska
newmanpp@corcom.com
____________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 18:24:21 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: Wanted: dash panels for late SIIA 88

Wanted, 

windscreen wipe dash cover for late IIA. Also any other dash panel. Will 
trade parts 

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 18:22:44 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: Wrench party

All, 

after getting another parts vehicle, I need to get it stripped down and 
parted out. so I'm going to have a wrench party. Show up ad help strip of the 
parts you need. Some parts are already spoken for, but still a lot left on a 
sound vehicle with a shot frame. 

e-mail me if you would like directions and your requirements. 

Mark

------------------------------

From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com
Subject: Re: Tired of Consumer Digest
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 10:32:15 PST

>... No wonder with things like the OJ trial. Don't blame us. ...
> Most of the woes thread concerns (c`mon - let's be objective) dinky
> stuff.

"Dinky stuff" are important. When consumers spend $35K + tax on an automobile,
they deserve to have all the dinky stuff working. 

Today, even the most basic Japanese sedans have few quality flaws. If Land Rover
wants to stay competitive, they must sort out all these problems. Look at
Jaguar, quality problems almost killed them!

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Peng                                     (408)765-7863
Intel Corporation
Design Technology, Physical CAD
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:52:05 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Discovery snow chains?

 Christopher Boese writes:

Snip
> Discovery. I'm guessing that the brake disks and possibly the alloy wheels
> on the Discovery would be harmed by chains.
Perhaps they are the radial tire chains, the kind that are made from 
steel cable? But properly sized chains shouldn't damage wheels.

> In any case, I bought a Discovery so I wouldn't have to use chains ever
> again. If the snow were bad enough that I'd have to put chains on, I'd have
> no business driving anyway!
Hmmm, my philosophy is that that's just when it starts to get fun.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 11:07:31 -0800
Subject: Re: Low MPG in new D90

On Nov 14, 12:41pm, Ross Leidy wrote:
> Subject: Low MPG in new D90
> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)]
> my surprise, I still got 13 MPG.  I thought I would at least get the 16 MPG
> estimate shown on the window sticker.

No, no, no. The reason you aren't getting better mileage without the headwind
is that going the other direction (into the wind) just proves that the LR
line is impervious to wind. It just doesn't matter. So getting 13 mpg with no
wind is normal, while a stiff headwind and 13 mpg is good: other vehicles
would drop down several mpgs :>)) I can hear the singing now (sung to the 3
little pigs), "Who's afraid of the big bad wind, the big bad wind, the big
bad wind..."

> ______________________________________________________
> Ross Leidy  (ross@secant.com)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> 95 D90 (#3032)
>-- End of excerpt from Ross Leidy

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 11:12:31 -0800
From: russ burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Low MPG in new D90

I takes a long time for a Rover v8 to break in. I actually think it takes 20
to 30K.
Also the Key to good gas mileage is cheap gas. Low octane. 85 if you can
find it.

Really I was running premium in the beast and getting 12 to 14. On cheap
pay-less
I get between 15 and 18.
FYI the R-Rover runs better on hi test.(Higher compression ratio)

Russ Burns
91 R-Rover
94 D-90

At 12:41 PM 11/14/95, Ross Leidy wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>With approximately 900 miles of low-speed, break-in style driving on my
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 29 lines)]
>Ross Leidy  (ross@secant.com)
>Secant Technologies, Inc.
>95 D90 (#3032)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 14:19:21 EST
From: tonyb@ejv.com (Tony Bromberg)
Subject: RE: AOIS Approved News Release:  World's *Cheapest* Way to get USA Magazine

Yoshio, I'm not able to email you directly.  I've tried this email
address for the subscription and it did not go through (just like your
address).

FREE-magazine-subscription-offer@0.5.5.1.7.6.9.8.1.7.1.tpc.int

I'm dying to submit, but how???? :^(

If you can give me an alternate address I will try again.  Or maybe
someone else could forward my request?  I'll be glad to fill out the
form and email it to them.

Many thanks
TonyB

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 11:40:33 +0000
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Breakfast (not-a-grille)

Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au> writes:
>I had never heard the term breakfast (in this context) until
>subscribing to this list.  Maybe the etymology is
>   grille -> breakfast grille -> breakfast

 The breakfast is the entire recessed radiator panel, primarily for early
 IIA's and before.  Think of the headlights as two large eggs and a grille.
 After driving at night you're always assured a meal, as anything caught in
 the grille may be your breakfast (yum! :)

                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^  '65 IIA 223.5cm (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 12:42:22 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Lock Right lockers experience.

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Lock Right lockers experience.
Trefor,

I have Lock Right lockers installed to the rear of my '87 RR. I think
they're great! They do make a slight clicking sound when turning, (unlocking
to allow for one wheel to turn faster than the other) but it's hardly
noticeable, especially with the windows up and the A/C on. The *only* time I
really notice *any* adverse affect is decelerating while making a hard
turn. It seems to buck a little when I do this. (I have an automatic trans,
which is supposed to be the least affected by lockers on a full time 4WD.)
As for their help in offroad situations, they're *great*! I've been totally
cross-axle'd (opposite wheels in the air) and after stopping to look, simply
drove away. They help prevent wheel spin, since *both* rear wheels are
gripping. I can't wait till I get the front end locked. (This will take a
while though, as ARB air lockers are the only thing that I know of for the
front.) If you want, I have an e-mail address for them, I just can't get to
it from this screen, just let me know.

Since you're in the UK... any experience ordering from AEW Paddock? I'm
waiting on an order that I made in July! Still nothing.... If it wouldn't
be asking too much, would you mind checking on this order for me? I've not
been able to get anywhere on phone calls, and at $10 and up per call, I
can't afford to wait on hold too long. When I have called, they were familiar
with the order for "Dave Brown in the USA". They haven't responded to any of
the FAX's I've sent. I'd cancel and order from another, but I've already
given them my Visa #. It's a large order, well worth their efforts!

Let me know if you need any more info on the lockers... and what you decide
to do.

Good luck!

Dave Brown debrown@srp.gov

#=======#          ________           We make a living by what we get,
|__|__|__\___     /__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
| _|  |   |_ |}   \_/-\_|__/-\_|}
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 15:44:22 EST
Subject: NAS Disco Rear Turn Lights

The difference between NAS '95s and the rest of the world's 
Discos has been recently noted.  The low position of the 
turn signals on the former can be a hazard, especially here 
around DC where bumber-to-bumper, jerk-in/jerk-out driving 
is SOP.  Those of us who violate local custom and use the 
directionals want to be seen.

It has been mentioned that an empty hole for an additional 
lamp holder exists in the '95 Disco tail light housings.  
Holders are supposedly not available seperately. 

Question:  Can 2 lamp holders be taken out of a spare tail 
light housing, with 1 each being put into the two installed 
'95 housings, then wired in parallel to the low, 
bumper-mounted turn lights?  The current going to the 2 
parallel bulbs would be higher than that going to a single 
bulb, but isn't a trailer set-up, which the vehicle is 
designed to absorb, an even greater electrical load?  

Result of this transplant would be two turn flashers per 
side in the rear, one high and one low.  Why not???  (Not 
too concerned about having the high signals orange.)

Or maybe LRNA should replace '95 and earlier tail light 
housings with '96/Euro version under a service bulletin, 
with costs absorbed by them?

Tread lightly and signal thoughtfully,
Hank

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 11:46:12 PST
From: Bennett Leeds <bennett@mv.us.adobe.com>
Subject: Re: Consumer Reports Ratings on 1995 Land Rover Discovery

> There are also two models now.  The SD and the SE7.  

Actually, there are 3 models: SD, SE, and SE7.

> The difference between them is that the SE7 has electric seats, the 

> SD doesn't. 

There's much more to it than that. The SE7 has dual sunroofs, rear  
A/C, rear leather jumps seats, free-style wheels, and fog lamps.

Here's a breakdown of the '96 Model Year Discoveries, as send by LR  
to dealers (this may be different than the brochure):

Options                         Model  Port Options   % of Cars
-----------------------------------------------------------------
None (Man)                        SD    Prc, CD           5%
Aut                               SD    Prc, CD          15%
Aut Ltr  *                        SD    Prc, CD           0  *
Aut Ltr Frl Rst **                SD    CD               20% **
Aut Sun Pls Fog Fsw               SE    Frl, CD          20%
Aut Sun Pls Fog Rac Rst Frl Fsw   SE7   CD               35%
Man Sun Pls Fog Rac Rst Frl Fsw   SE7   CD                5%

* - Not available after Mid Oct.
** - Only offered unil Mid Oct, as replacement for Aut Ltr

I believe the abbreviations translate as follows:
	Aut - Automatic trans
	CD  - 6 disc CD changer
	Fog - Fog lamps
	Frl - ?
	Fsw - Free-style Wheels
	Ltr - Leather seats (not power?)
	Man - Manual trans
	Pls - Power leather seats
	Prc - ?
	Prl - ?
	Rst - Rear hydraulic step
	Rac - Rear A/C
	Sun - Dual sunroofs

This is somewhat out of date now, as as of mid Oct, more port  
installed options should be available (like rear jumps seats, rear  
hydraulic step, etc.). At any rate, notice the dearth of 5 spd  
models.

> According to the salesman, the local dealership has the highest
> sales in northern California, but can only get 15 Discoveries a 

> month. That's why the wait is so long and the price not discounted 

> at all.

Well, there is at least *one* SF Bay Area dealership that will  
discount the price on a new Discovery. I saved over a grand on the  
vehicle itself (plus free floor mats and a discount on the rear cargo  
mat) just a few days ago. ;^)

- Bennett

Just say No to full sticker!

------------------------------

Date: 14 Nov 95 14:52:12 EST
From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: cats have nine lives........

     on my non lr toyota chevy nova, never had a problem with the catalytic 
     converter -  never replaced it and i have 130,000 plus on the clock 
     with no increase in the pollutant levels since new.
     ie forget about the service schedule you are not likely to have a 
     problem  
      

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 15:00:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Kurt Horton <khorton@deming.mdc.com>
Subject: Safari Gard + ramlings

Bob,

I am having trouble posting to LRO sometimes it takes a few days to get
through.  So I thought I would send a copy direct to you.  In responce to
your question about Safari Gard.  Greg has helped me and Totaly outfitted
my friends Disco.  you will be quite impressed if you do the same or make a
road trip to what I refer to as  "Safari Gard Compound" and drive his
little course.  Stock vehicles not recommended for all places if you like
your Discos little plastic pieces or your Series vehicles alluminum rocker
pannels.  As far as his equiptment I am really sold on their strenght and
damage control ability.  Josh's Disco has front and Rear steel bumpers with
corner protectors, Warn 8K winch, front and  rear Skid plates (to protect
those control rods) Rocker protectors ('sliders') and a Roof Rack.  A very
well equipt vehicle.  My SIII is less equipt but last weekend I bent my
steering rod when I slipped my Right front into a gully.  The truck just
acted like an elephant in the circus bowing down on his right front knee
and sticking his opposite rear up in the air behind him.  Since I was alone
and there was no way to build up the 2 plus feet of nothing under the tire
I had to get out the highlift and jack up the right front side of my
vehicle using the slider as a jacking point.  Once the truck was level
enough to put the airborn back tire on the dirt I had to drive backwards
off the lift.  Truck saved but rod bent, and you could never do that on
those plastic or aluminum rocker covers.  

Ok so I have vented my opinion.  Next I am getting a skid plate.  I always
thought that I would rap one of those rods around some rock I bounced up
against unexpectedly not by driving into a sinkhole or ditch.  Live and
learn, but drop Greg you should like what you see especially if you see it
in acition like I have.  

Kurt Horton
<khorton@deming.mdc.com>

================Forward header==============
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 10:31:01 -0500
From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi)
Subject: Re: Vulnerable Disco

Insoo Bay Wrote:
"It is one of the my habits  looking at the undercarrage of the vehicle from
time to time, spcecially after off road.  Recently, I have noticed that
steering damper was slightly bent after easy rocky terrain."

I trashed mine too, with the result that I couldn't turn left until I
disconnected it.  Replacement was easy, and so was the decision not to get
a Bilstein.  The damper is just too vulnerable.  I was talking to the folks
at Safari Gard and they may have some solutions to help.  I think they make
skid plates for the disco.  It may be a package with the replacement
bumpers.  I'll post when I get more info.  (Anyone have one of their front
bumpers installed?  I'd love a report.)
-Bob

  rvirzi@gte.com             Think Globally. ===
  +1(617)466-2881                            === Act Locally!
Thanks,

KPH
x2120

------------------------------

Subject: LR production/sales (was Re: it is a grille)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:18:25 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Llody wrote:

> 1994 production figures
> RR 17,952;  Disco 54,499;  Def 22,265;  total 94,716
> http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/Sales.html

	Close to what I found (I think my data was from LRO magazine):

                            Range    Range
                LandRover&  Rover    Rover
      Total     Defender    Classic  (Mk II)   Disco  
1994  94,716    21,091      13,667    2,669   54,499     

	If you follow the reported production goals as published in LRO and LRW
magazines you get the follownig for 1995:

1995 144,560    26,000       4,160   27,040   87,360   

This table (with as complete as I can figure out Land Rover vehicle
production since the begining (using sales data when I couldn't find production
data)) can be found at:

http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/FAQ.3.LR_production.html

Ben

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:22:49 -0800
From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool)
Subject: Model cars on WWW

Fellow model & miniature car buffs,

I was poking around on the Web and found this on-line catalogue which offers
several Land-Rover, Range Rover, and Rover car models (pre-built; no kits
for Rovers listed).  Also has books and videos (didn't check those for Rover
content).  It's called EWA & MINIATURE CARS USA and claims to be "the
largest one stop source for automobilia in the USA" and "We stock over 2800
different car books, 500 different videos about cars, 7000 different car
models (fully built or kits)... "

URL is:

    <http://shops.net/shops/EWACARS/>

Cheers,

Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA
<gpool@pacific.pacific.net> (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work
          In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
                In the midst of his laughter and glee,
            He had softly and suddenly vanished away--
                For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see.
                          --Lewis Carroll

------------------------------

Date: 14 Nov 95 15:35:45 EST
From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: snow chains for discos

     the official LR  snow chains and the owners manual say that snow 
     chains are only for discos equipped with 205/16 tyres. what does a 
     235/16 owner do? guess that clearance is a problem .
      

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:37:51 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Washer Systems?

In message <199511132305.SAA02540@butler.uk.stratus.com> Tim Harincar writes:
; 
> When were windscreen washer systems installed on LRs? My '66 IIa doesn't 
> have a system, so I was wondering if such a system was not offered or 
; offered only as an option that year (and why would anyone choose *not* to 
> have one?).
; 
> Anyhow, I'm planning to add such a system, based on parts from RN, and was 
> wondering if anyone else has added one, and what any pitfalls might be.
; 
> Thanks,
; 
> Tim
;  ---
> tim harincar
; harincar@mooregs.com
> '66 IIa 88 SW 

Windscreen washers came as an option in 1966.  The resavour goes on the left 
side near the radiator (but there is space between it & the radiator for a 
recovery bottle).  The electric pump goes high on the firewall at the center.  
The jets go on the bonnet each in front of the wiper arm spindle about a foot 
from the rear of the bonnet.  there is a hole drilled in the side of the bonnet 
underside ribs as a water tube passage and to hang them up into place.  if you 
were to draw a straight line between the two jets, you will know where to place 
the holes in the ribbs.  There is a 'T' at the center that goes to the output of
the pump.  The description I gave you is from a '66 Canadian spec Land Rover 
that came from the factory sith a washer.  Series III had an entirely different 
system.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:38:11 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Sender Units pos. vs. neg.

In message <199511121532.HAA17440@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us> Jeremy Bartlett 
writes:
> I'm going to be converting a positive ground system to negative ground 
> and am also currently replacing the fuel tank.  In the process of doing 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> Does replacing the pos. earth sender with a neg. earth sender pose any 
> problems? 

Yes

> I can't think why it should,

The sender & guage are matched.  The guage is basically a thermal device.  
Depending opon how much current is passing through it, it will read high or low.
The sender is a variable resistor that regulates the amount of current that goes
through the guage.  If the wires on a sender is wound one way, the current 
increases as the level drops.  If its wound the oposit way, the current drops as
the fuel level drops.  The guage needs to be matched to the sender so that it 
doesn't read empty when full & visa versa. 

The windings on the  pre-series III LRs are wound in the oposit direction as the
later senders.  What this means is that the guages read oposit.  The pre-series 
III guage reads oposit any other Smith, Lucas or Jager fuel guage I have found 
(and I went through a lot looking).  

Polarity does not make a difference to a themal device, only the level of 
current flow.  Therefore you do not need to touch your sender or guage when you 
change the polarity of your car.  however, if you change to the later neg. earth
sries III senders, you will need to change to a matched fuel guage that works 
the 

>   Surely 
> replacing the sender polarity type will cure this?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> Thanks again,
> Jeremy

Gawd, they should never let software engineers get near hardware
TeriAnn

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 14:43:52 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: cats have nine lives........

I suspect the recommended replacement of catalytic converters is 
because, like mufflers, they will tend to clog up with particulates 
over a period of many many miles.
It seems like I read somewhere also that the catalyst looses it's 
effectiveness after a time.
A couple of theories, anyway.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 13:56:47 -0700
From: David Dodell <david@dental.stat.com>
Subject: Discovery 96 and Airbags, news

I spoke yesterday with Land Rover Customer Service in New Jersey.  The
person I spoke to in customer service contacted a engineer within the
company.  Recommendation is keeping the kids in the back, no matter what
type of car seat (forward/back/booster) ... 

I asked about a weight/height and the recommendation was to keep them in the
back until they were tall enough to fit comfortable with the shoulder belt.

Also, thanks to everyone who replied to me privately.

David Dodell
---
Internet : david@dental.stat.com
WWW   : http://www.stat.com/~david
Telephone: +1-602-860-1121
FAX      : +1-602-451-1165

------------------------------

From: a-robw@microsoft.com
Subject: RE: cautious optimism
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:31:03 -0800

>(Personally, I've been impressed by the braking for such a heavy vehicle).
>After reading many of the posts and my e-mail, I'm encouraged that some
>of these "dinky" problems might not be an indication of overall quality.
>I am still concerned by reports of electrical cable shortings, bent
>steering dampers and so on, but hope these are isolated instances.

Remember that alot of the "bent" and "damaged" items occur after serious 
off-road "use" in hostile terrain. I think a more appropriate view would be 
"ONLY bent steering dampers".  This type of damage won't occur if you stay 
on the street. And from my experience, any off-road undercarriage damage 
will be less in the Disco than ANY other SUV (bought "off the rack") driven 
over similar conditions.

    _____
   /|__|_\___                            Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 14:33:24 EST
From: mcdan@Rt66.com (Daniel McDonough)
Subject: RE: Mail in 2-fold or 3-fold. Why?

Guilty as charged. Was trying out new mailer software (Built by Lucas?).
Every message you got, my software said it could not deliver. It is now off
my system. I am still looking for good Mail software. Sorry for the noise.

Daniel McDonough                        mcdan@rt66.com
95 D-90
6500 Miles and no Oil Leaks :-)  17.0 MPG :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 13:55:17 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: former digests

On Tue, 14 Nov 1995, Kurt Reinhardt wrote:

> I am unabble to get the digests of 12th and 13th this month, even with the
> get yymmdd command from majordomo. If someone has them still on his harddisk
> I would be glad if he could send them to me.
> Thanks for your effort

I just checked my lro-digest file and sure enough, no digest for the 12th
or the 13th.  I recollect that there was a foul up and then everything 
came pouring in all at once.  I don't think you missed anything, Kurt.  
Somebody commended Bill C. for a heroic effort in getting the Majordomo 
sorted out in a most timely manner.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
               Walter C. Swain          |  wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us 
               Davis Community Network  |  1988 Range Rover
               Davis, California        |  1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 15:21 MST
From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II)
Subject: Re: Vacuum guages

You wrote of vacuum gauges being the most important engine instrument.
I have heard this before, and wanted to try it, but my concern is that
I live at 7000 feet, and the air pressure up here is only 80% that of
sea level.  How does this affect you vacuum readings?

Thanks,

James Howard			jhoward@argus.lowell.edu
1972 SIII 88 "Ephraim"		Flagstaff, Arizona, USA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 14:37:10 -0800
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: Range Rover Recall (RRR:)

This may be old news, but I don't remember seeing a post on it.  The 
December issue of Four Wheeler says "Range Rover is recalling 1,810 1995 4.0 
SE's for a possible brake hose leak from high-pressure ABS."

-Matt

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 16:46:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "Francis J. Twarog" <ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: Stuff

I thought that this was common knowledge, but since people were asking... 
the 8 Rovers in Ace Ventura 2 came from the East Coast Rover Co. in 
Camden, Maine.  The first 5 were built in just 2 weeks (Mike was up many 
an hour, I guess, working away) and the last 3 in a week - hell, I've had 
mine for 5 years and it not near to being "completed" yet!  Anyway, a 
depressing sight this morning on my way to work - a series LR being towed 
up onto a flatbed tow truck - but up here, people seem to take offense to 
offers of help.  The woman said she'd fix it on her own after work - and 
sure enough, on my way back home it was gone from the service station. 
Yeah for women's lib!

So - for today's trivia...  which Land Rover had the first one-piece
windshield?  And an easy one - what did Land Rover originally plan on 
calling the Range Rover?

Frank Twarog
Burlington, VT

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Stuff 
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 15:24:56 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199511142258.RAA04764@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote:

> So - for today's trivia...  which Land Rover had the first one-piece
> windshield?  

	The prototype had a one piece windshield.  The pre-production run
had 2 piece windshield.

> And an easy one - what did Land Rover originally plan on 
> calling the Range Rover?

	Road Rover.

Ben

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 23:33:07 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: Calling Jim Dolan

Jim, 

Jeff Goldman, from Boston is looking for a Land rover SIIA, bad frame, do you 
have one ? He's on the net, don't know his e-mail address. 

Cheers

Mark

------------------------------

Date: 14 Nov 95 19:09:19 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: 'Truck falls on Land Rover' - the picture!

...just to inform you that in the Dec. issue of LRW on p.10, there's the
photo of the Deanston Bridge incident where a HGV (articulated 10-wheeler
truck) dropped  40 feet on top of a Defender 90 lying on its side. The
Land Rover isn't even deformed! Awesome...  The LR driver suffered only
minor injuries resulting from the fall (he too dropped from the bridge
before the truck followed him) whereas the truck driver was in serious
condition. (Does this make up for squeaking steering wheels, then?)

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 16:21:17 PST
From: asmith@BayNetworks.COM (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: Consumer Reports Ratings on 1995 Land Rover Discovery

> From LRO-Owner@uk.stratus.com Mon Nov 13 21:55:29 1995
> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 21:28:55 -0800
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
> Subject: Re: Consumer Reports Ratings on 1995 Land Rover Discovery

John,

> There are also two models now.  The SD and the SE7.  The difference between
> them is that the SE7 has electric seats, the SD doesn't.  I stopped by the
> dealership today to check them out.  

... although I found BMC in San Fran fairly flexible about adding stuff to 
the SD that I bought: e.g. sunroofs, fog lamps. The SE7 had all sorts of
extra junk that I didn't need along with a way-too-big price tag.

Andrew Smith
Palo Alto CA USA
'96 Disco

------------------------------

From: a-robw@microsoft.com
Subject: RE: 'Truck falls on Land Rover' - the picture!
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 16:50:48 -0800

Try that in your Ford Explorer or Jeep G. Cherokee! Those of us who saw 
Jurassic Park know what a T-Rex can do to an Explorer! Maybe they should 
have had Rovers?!

-- Bob W.
----------
From: 	Stefan R. Jacob[SMTP:100043.2400@compuserve.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, November 14, 1995 4:09 PM
Subject: 	'Truck falls on Land Rover' - the picture!

....just to inform you that in the Dec. issue of LRW on p.10, there's the
photo of the Deanston Bridge incident where a HGV (articulated 10-wheeler
truck) dropped  40 feet on top of a Defender 90 lying on its side. The
Land Rover isn't even deformed! Awesome...  The LR driver suffered only
minor injuries resulting from the fall (he too dropped from the bridge
before the truck followed him) whereas the truck driver was in serious
condition. (Does this make up for squeaking steering wheels, then?)

------------------------------

From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com
Subject: Re: Discovery
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 17:21:04 PST

Having been into British cars for a long time, I will give you my views
on the subject, but I must say that I am not a Discovery owner. 

In the publications, they often mention the following complaints
about the Discovery: too much lean in corners, anemic acceleration, 
transmission whine, engine noise, wind noise, bad gas mileage, etc.
In general, I believe these complaints are valid when judged
against other vehicles in the same category. However, you have to
judge for yourself if the various aspects are "acceptable" to you. For
example, I used to drive a Land Cruiser FJ40, which is really noisy  
inside, but that part didn't bother me at all, because I liked the "rawness" 
of the Land Cruiser. Thus, I suggest that you take a few test drives,
and decide for yourself if anything bothers you to the point where
you wouldn't want it. 

Quality is a different issue. You can't tell if a vehicle will be reliable
by looking at it. The Discovery is relatively new in the U.S., thus there's
not much information available. However, as you've read on the list, 
owners having experienced problems. Also, Automobile magazine has a Discovery
as their long term test vehicle, and there's a brief writeup in the current
issue, in which they said they loved the vehicle, but it's been in the
shop a few times (after just a few thousand miles). When this happens
in a British vehicle, it's indeed a bit alarming. 

Another data point is to look at the reliability record of the Range Rover, 
which has been in the U.S. market for much longer. The record shows that
reliability is not that great, thus, I wouldn't expect Japanese-level 
reliability in a Discovery either.

Servicing costs for Land Rover products also tend to be high, and you can't
obtain parts at the local auto supply store. Again, you need to assess
if these are things you can live with. I face many of the same issues as  
a Jaguar owner, but overall my enjoyment of my vehicle has far outweighed
these bothers.

As for the '96 vs.'95 models, I don't think there is much difference as
far as the vehicles are concerned. As for quality, does anyone know if
BMW has a program to improve Land Rover quality, similar to what Ford
has done to Jaguar? 

| I am contemplating my first purchase of a vehicle manufactured by Land Rover
| - the Discovery. Although I certainly like the vehicle, I am somewhat leery
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 30 lines)]
| Sincerely,
| Mark Novey
| Admit1Fest@aol.com

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Peng                                     (408)765-7863
Intel Corporation
Design Technology, Physical CAD
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 21:57:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Fuel For Your Boredom

Dave..

I just took my radiator to a local shop to have some leaks repaired and the
frame re-soldered. Cost to fix - $32.10 including tax. The leaks were in the
top of the radiator, not the fins. A good shop may be able to fix yours, but
you won't know until they look at it. As far as getting it re-cored, from
what I've heard, you might as well just buy a new radiator. Of course, the
cost will vary, depending on where you go..

Cheers
Mike
 

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 21:58:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: NAS Disco Rear Turn Lights

WARNING!!!!  LUCAS ALERT!!!!  DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS MODIFICATION

UNLESS YOU WISH TO SUFFER THE WRATH OF JOE.....

--------------------------------------------------------------
Hank sez...

   Question:  Can 2 lamp holders be taken out of a spare tail 
   light housing, with 1 each being put into the two installed 
   '95 housings, then wired in parallel to the low, 
   bumper-mounted turn lights?  The current going to the 2 
   parallel bulbs would be higher than that going to a single 
   bulb, but isn't a trailer set-up, which the vehicle is 
   designed to absorb, an even greater electrical load?  
  
   Result of this transplant would be two turn flashers per 
   side in the rear, one high and one low.  Why not???  (Not 
   too concerned about having the high signals orange.)
----------------------------------------------------------------

See kiddies... This is how it all starts. The current owner, meaning well,
tries his own modifications, fiddling with the Lucas bits until he is
satisfied that it is all better....  Then, 20 years from now, the new owner
has to sort through the modifications, all the time muttering nasty things
about the PO... And thus the tradition continues...

Cheers
Mike
 

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Stuff ) 
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 19:08:25 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Frank Tworog wrote:

> So - for today's trivia...  which Land Rover had the first one-piece
> windshield?  

	I just remembers that not only did the center steer prototype 
Land-Rover have a one piece windscreen, but so did the 80" Station Wagon.
The Santana has a one piece windscreen in the 70s and then the Land Rover 110s
starting in the 80s.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 23:55:09 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Sun visors

"Patents??  We don' need no stinkin' patents...."

Now wait a minute, Rick...the $70/$60 price was *last* time, like three 
years ago.  I haven't had time to check on prices from the sheet metal 
place.  (And I hope he kept the design on disk - it's a very high tech place 
with computer guided cutting/bending equipment.)  It is a very robust 
design, superior to the original and will fit all Series II/III up to 1977. 
In this regard, we have made improvements to the original design, 
specifically in the shape/placement of the mounting holes.  Most of these 
are elongated to allow for greater flexibility in mounting.  After 20-30 
years of off roading, most Rovers are a bit "tweaked".

The brackets are galvanized steel with an aluminium visor.  The brackets 
should be primed with Rust-Oleum's "GalvaGrip" with the DuPont "Variprime" 
for the visor.  Mounting is best accomplished with "RivetNuts" on the side 
frame and simple sheet metal screws for the center divider.  Four or so 
years after fitting mine, there are no signs of rust or corrosion.  Of 
course, stainless fixings should be used.  Truss head, 1/4-20 machine screws 
work best.  

I'll *try* to check on the prices tomorrow or Friday. 

OK...more trivia.  What was the trade name on the original IIa manual screen 
washers? 

Cheers
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 15:21:00 EST
From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben)
Subject: shipping from UK, info please.

Dear list:

I need to ship some bulky and heavy parts (engine + diff + misc).
What is the cheapest way to do that, and can you recommend anyone?
Thanks
Jan

------------------------------

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