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From: tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de
Subject: back with new email address
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 11:14:52 MET

Hi all,
when I came back from a short climing trip to Italy in September
I found a mail from the sysadmin that my account will expire soon.

After that I had to arange lots of things with my PhD theses, so
I had no time for virtual ;-) Land Rovers (hardly had time for
mine).
But here I'm again. You can reach me at the address below
or at tbr1102@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de. 

happy rovering
Franz
---------------------------------------------------------------
Franz Parzefall                 tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de
       _______
      [____|\_\==
      [_-__|__|_-]           exmil. 110 2.5D
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__.._      (still unnamed! please help!)
                                  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 16:07:57 PST
From: "Kirk Dowswell" <Kirk_Dowswell@hctaam.uaeu.ac.ae>
Subject:  Disco "Duning"

     
     As a new member to the LRO digest and a new owner of a 1996 Disco 
     TDi(1,500 miles) I would be grateful if someone could confirm the 
     following queries.
     
     Living in this part of the world (United Arab Emirates) most of my off 
     road driving is through the high sand dunes (duning) or along dry 
     river beds in the mountains (wadi bashing). Before buying the Disco I 
     owned a Toyota Landcruiser II and managed to negotiate most things 
     quite easily, however, with the Disco I have encountered the following 
     problems:
     
     1. As the Disco has a diesel engine I don't get the quick burst of 
     speed which you need to ascend or descend sand dunes. After getting 
     stuck a few times I decided to use the diff-h which seemed to do the 
     trick. Does it harm the vehicle to engage the diff for long periods of 
     time ?
     
     2. As I bought the car for export to Australia I had air bags 
     installed. When duning, you quite often hid sand with quite an impact. 
     Not wanting to set off the airbags I disconnected the fuse. By doing 
     this am I fully disabling the bags? or can they still go off?
     
     3. The car is a RHD Disco U.K. specs. The dealer assures me that the 
     specs. are also the same for Australia. Is this correct?
     
     I have enjoyed reading the various discussions over the last few weeks 
     and look forward to the replies.
     
     If anyone wants an idea of the terrain out here, the FIA world cup for 
     cross country rallies just had the UAE Desert Challenge here last 
     week. It should be on one of your sports channels soon. It's pretty 
     exciting stuff.
     
     Kirk Dowswell
     Higher Colleges of Technology
     Al Ain, United Arab Emirates.  

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:04:27 GMT -0600
Subject: waving

On the subject of who waves. If you think other rover owners 
don't  wave enough, try driving a lightweight. I've even had a series 
driver not wave. I've learned to not take it personally, but look at 
the person as an uneducated owner. They just don't know what the hell 
I'm driving.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Richard Jones <rich@apricot.mee.com>
Subject: trivia?
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:17:39 +0000 (GMT)

Francis J. Twarog writes:
> 	As for trivia, many people were correct in answering that the Monteverdis 
> 	were early '80s Range Rovers that were converted from 2 to 4 doors before 
> 	the factory decided to produce them. 

Prototype was built in March 1979 and was produced until December 1982 when the
Monteverdi Factory closed down.

See http://www.apricot.co.uk/rel3/directory/rrr/classic/monteverdi.html if you
would like a little more information.

> 	Curiously enough, LR did have a 
> 	prototype 4 door as early as 1972 - whose exterior looked *IDENTICAL* to
> 	the one they started to produce 11 years later (even the door handles 
> 	were the same) 

The 1972 prototype had quarterlights in the front door windows (in common with 
the 2 door vehicles of the period) which were replaced with one piece windows
on the production vehicles.

>	- one can only speculate why they chose to wait for a 
> 	product that the automotive world was screaming should be developed! 

For most of the 70's there was a 6-12 month waiting list for 2-door the
2 door model, so made little sense dissrupting the production line to tool
up for a 4 door model.  Also the profits Land Rover were making were being
sucked up by rest of British Leyland, and there was NO money to invest in
NEW models (however similar to existing models).
 
> 	Anyway, I cannot confirm if the Monteverdis were factory authorised - 
> 	perhaps someone knows?

Monteverdi's were Factory Approved and were sold through Selected Land Rover
dealers with full Land Rover warrantees.
__ 
  _ __              Apricot Computer Limited
 ' )  )      /      3500 Parkside               Tel:   (+44) 121 717 7171
  /--' o _. /_      Birmingham Business Park    Fax:   (+44) 121 717 0123
 /  <_<_(__/ <_     BIRMINGHAM  B37 7YS
 Richard Jones      United Kingdom              Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:33:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: The tangled webs we weave...

On Mon, 6 Nov 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> Dave "Web Schmeb, etc, etc." Bobeck rants...
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> > again.  This is what Land-Rover's are about. They're not about
> > WorldWebWhiners or FTP's (Full Tank, Petrol?) or HTML's (Hot Meals?)or any
With all due respect to all involved I would have to second Dave's
motion.....

Russ W.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:35:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Movies.

On Mon, 6 Nov 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> Tony Yates states...
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
> Yahoo!
> Mike
Panhard?????? Panhead, I know.  Panhard....Hmmm Tell us a story about the 
mystical Panhard.

Russ W.

------------------------------

From: Richard Jones <rich@apricot.mee.com>
Subject: Disco "Duning"
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:37:45 +0000 (GMT)

Kirk Dowswell writes:
>  	   1. As the Disco has a diesel engine I don't get the quick burst of 
> 	     speed which you need to ascend or descend sand dunes. After getting 
> 	     stuck a few times I decided to use the diff-h which seemed to do the 
> 	     trick. Does it harm the vehicle to engage the diff for long periods of 
> 	     time ?

You should only harm the vehicle if the diff lock is engaged on a "non slip" surface
(ie a surface that is going to "wind up" the transmission when not travelling in
straight lines).  Since you are probably going to spend the majority of the time
going in straight lines, and sand is not exactly "non slip" you should have no
problem.  As more than one of the Land Rover Demo Team drivers have said (and on
more than one occasion:

	"Anywhere you would think twice about driving a normal road car you 
should 		lock the diff"
	
The diff lock is there to help prevent you getting stuck in the first place (and it
can't do that if its not engaged), not to get you out once you are stuck.

> 	     2. As I bought the car for export to Australia I had air bags 
> 	     installed. When duning, you quite often hid sand with quite an impact. 
> 	     Not wanting to set off the airbags I disconnected the fuse. By doing 
> 	     this am I fully disabling the bags? or can they still go off?

Land Rover went to great lengths to make sure the air bags would not go off by
accident while off roading.  Should you manage to reproduce all the circumstances
required to detonate the air bags while off road, you shouldn't have been doing
what ever it was you were doing, and the air bags probably just saved you from
serious injury!  Air Bags ... don't mess with them!!!!

On a lighter note there is a video kicking about, produced by Land Rover at the
Gaydon Proving Ground, demonstrating a Discovery being VERY VERY seriously 
abused on the Off Road Test Track without detonating the Air Bags.  If you could
afford to fix the damage that must have resulted from the way it was being driven,
you could afford to by a new Discovery every time the Air Bag went off :-)

	     
> 	     3. The car is a RHD Disco U.K. specs. The dealer assures me that the 
> 	     specs. are also the same for Australia. Is this correct?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> 	     Kirk Dowswell
> 	     Higher Colleges of Technology
> 	     Al Ain, United Arab Emirates.  
__ 
  _ __              Apricot Computer Limited
 ' )  )      /      3500 Parkside               Tel:   (+44) 121 717 7171
  /--' o _. /_      Birmingham Business Park    Fax:   (+44) 121 717 0123
 /  <_<_(__/ <_     BIRMINGHAM  B37 7YS
 Richard Jones      United Kingdom              Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com

------------------------------

From: crash@merl.com
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 09:02:22 -0500
Subject: Disco cold feet??  Don't worry.

Well, I've got 41K on my 94 Disco, and yes, it's been in the shop
more than once for repairs.  It goes in again in two weeks for final
before-end-of-warranty tweaks and mumbles.

It _never_ needed to be towed to the dealer.  UNLIKE every other car I've
ever owned new, it always was drivable the whole time (creaky, maybe ...
go easy, often ... leaking, of course!  It's British!).  

But I've _never_ been stuck to the point of needing to call Recovery 
because the car wouldn't move under it's own power.

Unlike the subarus, hondas, toyotas, chryslers, blahblahblah, (all of
which have truly stranded me somewhere sometime in the past) Land
Rover has perfected the art of the Soft Failure.  

Sure, it breaks.  Anything can break.  But if you overdesign well 
enough, it doesn't matter if any one part is broke because other 
parts are overdesigned enough to take up the load to get you home.  
Things like full-floating axles, double seals, huge fluid reservoirs, 
bolt-down brake calipers with redundant pistons, a timing CHAIN 
running in oil instead of a belt.

It's not a car that "might" run forever with no maintenance.  It
_will_ require maintenance.  Accept that now- wave down the Snap-On 
truck and get a good set of socket wrenches as your first accessory. 
But a Land Rover is a vehicle that, properly maintained, will run 
forever.  

Would I buy one again?  Yes.   Anybody wanna sell a Series IIa or III
in pass-MA-inspection condition?  My budget is $3K to $6K...

	-Bill Yerazunis ( 94 Disco, and I wave )

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:23:51 -0700
From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)
Subject: Re: HELP: no go at 30 miles

Though unlikely in this case, I always like to mention the time I tried to
track down an intermittent fuel starvation (which `i attributed to vapor
lock for some time) which turned out to be a fuel pickup tube which was
almost filled with corrosion and would only let a sip of fuel through, and
was easily clogged by floating debris. Since you have 2 tanks, this is most
certainly not your problem, but don't forget that the fuel pickup tubes are
part of the system...

-jory

------------------------------

From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 15:42:40 +0001
Subject: LandRover Magazines

Hello all,

Now and then there are some LR magazines mentioned on this list. I wonder if
someone can send me the titles of these magazines and also the address for
subscription( if possible if one is living in the Netherlands ?:-) ). Maybe
there is even someone who can send me an example of one of these magazines.
As far as I know( but then what do I know? Well, I think I know how to drive
a LandRover ?;-) ) there are no such magazines available down here in the
Netherlands. Any info would be appreciated...
Thanks!
LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR
                ____
      |   _____/|__||   Roy Wassili,<wassili@amc.uva.nl>
      |  /(-8|  \   |   Avalon Green '95 Dicovery,
  ____|_/[]__|__\___|#  scarved for live
 |] __=|     |  __  |#
[|_/  \|_____|_/  \_|]
  ( o )        ( o )

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 09:46:00 EST

Roger Sinasohn wrote
"Let's grow up and be friends.  Let's work together for the good of our Land 
Rovers."

Here, Here, lets all be mates. the digest is a great benefit to us all and 
the other crap just wastes valuable bandwidth.

Trevor Easton.

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Manuals and dirty hands
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 09:55:00 EST

Nate Dunsmore wrote
" If possible, have Chris Stevens (or other friend) available to read the
manual as you work if it is your first go through since your hands will be
covered in 90 wt oil and grease."

Another good route is to photocopy the pages (OHMIGOD copyright 
infringement) you are using so the copies suffer the dirt and grunge. Also 
this way you can enlarge the page and make it easier to read when your eyes 
are full of dirt and grit from beneath your vehicle. While we are at it 
let's have the enlarged pages laminated and then they can be washed and re 
used.

Trevor  (call me "Dixon" when I'm at the copier) Easton

------------------------------

From: Trefor Delve <delve1t@nectech.co.uk>
Subject: Not an LR question but about Money, Cash, Dosh, ...
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 14:59:00 GMT

This is directed to the readers in Oz,

Sorry to put this on the net (as it's not a Rover related question), but I'm 
sure that someone will be able to advise me.

I am considering applying for a research post in Australia and I need to 
know what the going rate of pay for a Research Associate and Research 
Fellow, and how this compares to jobs in industry that require similar 
experience.

Here in the UK, RA and RF positions are poorly paid in comparison to their 
industrial counterparts.

As this is not a Rover issue, could anyone who can help mail me directly.

Thanks,

Trefor,

tdelve@nectech.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:14:14 GMT
From: "S.W.Brierley" <S.W.Brierley@dl.ac.uk>

>From postmaster@dl.ac.uk Tue Nov  7 14:37:08 1995
	(8.6.12/5.3[ref postmaster@dl.ac.uk] for dl.ac.uk from postmaster@dl.ac.uk); Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:37:03 GMT
Precedence: first-class
          Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:42 +0000
From: postmaster@dl.ac.uk
Subject: Delivery Report (failure) for lro@Net.Team.LandRover
Message-Type: Delivery Report
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:42 +0000
Message-ID: <"pserv1.dl..418:07.10.95.14.36.25"@dl.ac.uk>
Content-Identifier: Interesting I...
Status: R

------------------------------ Start of body part 1

This report relates to your message: Subject: Interesting IIB F/C Spotted.,
  Message-ID: <199511071436.OAA24907@mserv1.dl.ac.uk>,
  To: lro@LandRover.Team.Net
        of Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:22 +0000

Your message was not delivered to   lro@Net.Team.LandRover
        for the following reason:
        Unknown Address
        Nameserver error for LandRover.Team.Net: Non existant
        host/domain (NXDOMAIN) 

***** The following information is directed towards the local administrator
***** and is not intended for the end user
* 
* DR generated by: mta pserv1.dl.ac.uk
*         in /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/ at Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:25 +0000
*
* Converted to RFC 822 at uk.ac.dl at Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:42 +0000
*
* Delivery Report Contents:
*
* Subject-Submission-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<199511071436.OAA24907@mserv1.dl]
* Content-Identifier: Interesting I...
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information:  /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/arrival Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:22 +0000 action Relayed
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information:  /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/arrival Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:17 +0000 action Relayed
* Content-Correlator: Subject: Interesting IIB F/C Spotted.,
*                   Message-ID: <199511071436.OAA24907@mserv1.dl.ac.uk>,
*                   To: lro@LandRover.Team.Net* Recipient-Info: lro@Net.Team.LandRover,
*         /RFC-822=lro(a)LandRover.Team.Net/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;
*         FAILURE reason Unable-To-Transfer (1);
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*         converted eits ia5 text (2);
*         supplementary info "Nameserver error for LandRover.Team.Net:
*         Non existant host/domain (NXDOMAIN)";
****** End of administration information 

------------------------------ Start of forwarded message 1

          id <23413-0@pserv1.dl.ac.uk>; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:22 +0000
          id OAA24907 (8.6.12/5.3[ref postmaster@dl.ac.uk] for dl.ac.uk 
          from S.W.Brierley@dl.ac.uk); Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:17 GMT
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:17 GMT
From: "S.W.Brierley" <S.W.Brierley@dl.ac.uk>
Precedence: first-class
Subject: Interesting IIB F/C Spotted.

Hi Folks,

Whilst visiting my Girlfriend in the Cambridge area of the UK,
I came across a IIA or IIB Forward control that was being used
for digging/lifting purposes. It was a standard F/C from the 
front but had a flat bed back with what appeared to be a hydraulic
digger/lifting platform mounted in the centre of the bed.
Now, i know I am a LR addict because, at the time I had my head
under the bonnet of my Girlfriends Renault 5 (sorry, we are 
a Characteristic rumble coming my way, ahah thought I, a LR
Product of some description, and not disappointed when i popped
my head to spot somewhat of a rarity. Now the driver was
somewhat alarmed to see a bloke staring open mouthed at a 
vehicle of such design, but this was a special occasion.
So if that was you i apologise for gawping in such a manner.
Also, the B&B i was staying in had a LR enthusiast next door,
i went for a quick chat and a nosey at his 101 FC and nice
D110 HCPU with high level air intake.
Oh well, enough rambling for now, its just that it was nice 
to see an old girl being used properly, keep up the good work
Stu.

Proud owner of "EMMA" '76 SWB Ser III V8.
swb@xserv1.dl.ac.uk		Warrington, Cheshire,UK.

------------------------------ End of forwarded message 1

>From postmaster@dl.ac.uk Tue Nov  7 14:37:08 1995
	(8.6.12/5.3[ref postmaster@dl.ac.uk] for dl.ac.uk from postmaster@dl.ac.uk); Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:37:03 GMT
Precedence: first-class
          Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:42 +0000
From: postmaster@dl.ac.uk
Subject: Delivery Report (failure) for lro@Net.Team.LandRover
Message-Type: Delivery Report
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:42 +0000
Message-ID: <"pserv1.dl..418:07.10.95.14.36.25"@dl.ac.uk>
Content-Identifier: Interesting I...
Status: R

------------------------------ Start of body part 1

This report relates to your message: Subject: Interesting IIB F/C Spotted.,
  Message-ID: <199511071436.OAA24907@mserv1.dl.ac.uk>,
  To: lro@LandRover.Team.Net
        of Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:22 +0000

Your message was not delivered to   lro@Net.Team.LandRover
        for the following reason:
        Unknown Address
        Nameserver error for LandRover.Team.Net: Non existant
        host/domain (NXDOMAIN) 

***** The following information is directed towards the local administrator
***** and is not intended for the end user
* 
* DR generated by: mta pserv1.dl.ac.uk
*         in /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/ at Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:25 +0000
*
* Converted to RFC 822 at uk.ac.dl at Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:42 +0000
*
* Delivery Report Contents:
*
* Subject-Submission-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<199511071436.OAA24907@mserv1.dl]
* Content-Identifier: Interesting I...
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information:  /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/arrival Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:22 +0000 action Relayed
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information:  /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/arrival Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:17 +0000 action Relayed
* Content-Correlator: Subject: Interesting IIB F/C Spotted.,
*                   Message-ID: <199511071436.OAA24907@mserv1.dl.ac.uk>,
*                   To: lro@LandRover.Team.Net* Recipient-Info: lro@Net.Team.LandRover,
*         /RFC-822=lro(a)LandRover.Team.Net/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;
*         FAILURE reason Unable-To-Transfer (1);
*         diagnostic Unrecognised-ORName (0);
*         last trace (ia5 text (2)) Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:17 +0000;
*         converted eits ia5 text (2);
*         supplementary info "Nameserver error for LandRover.Team.Net:
*         Non existant host/domain (NXDOMAIN)";
****** End of administration information 

------------------------------ Start of forwarded message 1

          id <23413-0@pserv1.dl.ac.uk>; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:22 +0000
          id OAA24907 (8.6.12/5.3[ref postmaster@dl.ac.uk] for dl.ac.uk 
          from S.W.Brierley@dl.ac.uk); Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:17 GMT
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:17 GMT
From: "S.W.Brierley" <S.W.Brierley@dl.ac.uk>
Precedence: first-class
Subject: Interesting IIB F/C Spotted.

Hi Folks,

Whilst visiting my Girlfriend in the Cambridge area of the UK,
I came across a IIA or IIB Forward control that was being used
for digging/lifting purposes. It was a standard F/C from the 
front but had a flat bed back with what appeared to be a hydraulic
digger/lifting platform mounted in the centre of the bed.
Now, i know I am a LR addict because, at the time I had my head
under the bonnet of my Girlfriends Renault 5 (sorry, we are 
a Characteristic rumble coming my way, ahah thought I, a LR
Product of some description, and not disappointed when i popped
my head to spot somewhat of a rarity. Now the driver was
somewhat alarmed to see a bloke staring open mouthed at a 
vehicle of such design, but this was a special occasion.
So if that was you i apologise for gawping in such a manner.
Also, the B&B i was staying in had a LR enthusiast next door,
i went for a quick chat and a nosey at his 101 FC and nice
D110 HCPU with high level air intake.
Oh well, enough rambling for now, its just that it was nice 
to see an old girl being used properly, keep up the good work
Stu.

Proud owner of "EMMA" '76 SWB Ser III V8.
swb@xserv1.dl.ac.uk		Warrington, Cheshire,UK.

------------------------------ End of forwarded message 1

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 10:23:53 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: The tangled webs we weave...

Dave "Web Schmeb, etc, etc." Bobeck rants...

> gear oil.  Start it up.  Smell the exhaust.  Open the window.  Start it
> again.  This is what Land-Rover's are about. They're not about
> WorldWebWhiners or FTP's (Full Tank, Petrol?) or HTML's (Hot Meals?)or any

START IT AGAIN!!!   ROFLMAO

Especially for those of us with Weber Carbs. Hack Hack
          Sputter... Ppffffffffffffffffffffht. :-)

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: waving
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 14:14:53 GMT

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)]
> trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                
>  Four wheel drive allows you to get
>  stuck in places even more inaccessible.
On the other hand Tom,perhaps they *do*.Lowering thought,isnt it?:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: 07 Nov 95 10:40:03 EST
From: Cliff  Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com>
Subject: Message from Internet

FROM:	INTERNET:owner-lro-digest-ltd@uk.stratus.com,
INTERNET:owner-lro-digest-ltd@uk.stratus.com
DATE:	11/2/95 4:13 AM
Re:	Message from Internet
transfer.stratus.com 
DAA17307 for Message-Id: <199511020857.DAA17307@butler.uk.stratus.com>
Reply-To:	Land-Rover-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net
Subject:	The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
Send submissions to the list to:	lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net
To UNSUBSCRIBE send a message to:		MajorDomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
------------------------------

Date: 01 Nov 95 05:09:44 EST
From: Cliff  Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com>
Subject: 1988 Range Rover for sale

1988 Range Rover for sale for $12,950.  It has 115k miles but is in excellent
condition.  I live near Fredricksburg VA off I -95, between Washington DC and
Richmond VA.  I am NOT anxious to sell.
Cheers Cliff 
------------------------------

     	The URL's for the two new sites are:
	The official OVLR page	http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/
	The new RoverWeb	http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/RoverWeb/
	Dixon Kenner
------------------------------

From: jpappa01@interserv.com
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 08:55:56 PST
Subject: Re: D110 4-SALE
1993 NAS D110. #006/500. This was the first NAS D110 released for public sale. 
It has 15,000 miles. Has been stored over a year on blocks(!). Immaculate. 
Full waterproofs. Rear bed liner. Bonnet mounted spare conversion by Rovers 
North. $47,000 Firm. Never off-roaded. I know the owner and history of this 
 ---- cut here ---- 
End of Multipart LRO-Digest Section:  /tmp/951102.aa of /tmp/951102.ad

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:45:40 -0800
From: jcwhite3@well.com (John C. White, III)
Subject: Re: LandRover Magazines

Roy,

There are two major Land Rover publications that I would expect a
well-stocked newstand in Holland that deals in English language publications
would probably have.  The publications and their subscription addresses are:

Land Rover Owner International
Anglian House
Chapel Lane
Botesdale, Diss.
Norfolk IP22 1DT
United Kingdom

Land Rover World
Subscriptions Department
Hainault Road
Little Heath, Romford
Essex RM6 5NP
United Kingdom

Land Rover Owner Int'l lists its annual subscription rate for air mail to
western Europe at 40 pounds (UK).  Land Rover World doesn't list a
subscription price, but I would expect it to be about the same.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California

At 15:42 07.11.95 +0001, wassili@AMC.UVA.NL wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>Hello all,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)]
>[|_/  \|_____|_/  \_|]
>  ( o )        ( o )

------------------------------

From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar)
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 10:47:05 -0700
Subject: Hub nut socket?

Hi all,

As long as I'm going to tear apart my brakes, I'm going to fix my leaky hubs 
as well.

Question: Do I really need the $25 hub nut socket? My Rover budget is getting 
a little lean, with the exhaust and electrics *last* month, and xmas next 
manth...

Can I make do with another socket or is this some wierd size?

Thanks again,

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW aka 
"Algernon"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:56:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: RoverWeb, LROA, OVLR, et al. Bye-bye?

On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Roger Sinasohn wrote:

> (OVLR also has, perhaps, an advantage in that they're in Canada, and not 
> the overly litigious US.)

	It may be of interest to some club members (any LR club) that they
	should possibly consider something that we have done in Canada to 
	deal with the possibility of the litigious tendencies south of
	the border flowing northwards.  (Just because we don't have it yet,
	doesn't mean we won't get it.  Thus, we will be ready for it
	when it does arrive.  You don't necessarily have to be taught
	to be cautious...)

	The greatest problem with being a member of any club, is the threat
	of litigation.  Should something happen, you as a member of a club
	are liable.  Executive members are especially so.  When a club is
	being sued, the targets start at the executive and anyone else 
	who seems to have deep pockets.  The deeper the pockets, the higher
	up the list you will be.  (This explains the recent LROA decision
	not to hold any events.  The Exec doesn't want to get sued.  
	Depending on USA law, the membership probably doesn't want to get 
	sued either.  Hence, for now, LROA will put out a fine newsletter
	and nothing else for the time being.)

	Sure incorporation is a pain.  It costs $$$, you have to actually
	have semi regular meetings, you have to keep proper minutes, you
	have to file tax returns, you have to have a charter/consitution
	and bylaws and actually follow them.  (if the bylaws say you have
	a monthly/bimonthly etc newsletter, you gotta get it out on time.
	Elections?  Better follow those rules.  Complainers, whiners etc
	can make life difficult for you now...)

	However, off setting this pain is the fact if there is a lawsuit, \
	the corporation takes it in the chin.  The executive and membership 
	are safe.  

	Club assets?  Most clubs have zero in assets.  Some do, like OVLR
	which owns tools, towbars, a kitchen trailer... This leads us to 
	point two... We don't want to lose these assets, neither do you...

	Clubs should have insurance of some sort.  However, insurance is not
	cheap.  The Volvo Club in Ottawa is paying somewhere between $600
	and $800 for a million worth of insurance.  With a small membership
	base (and only LROA has the base to make this reasonable at this 
	time, for the large regional clubs at the 100+ members it is 
	feasible, for the smaller local clubs, impossible.  Of course, 
	insurance in the USA may be dramatically higher.  Forget what LRNA
	forked over for the ROAV Mid-Atlantic Rally last year)

	OVLR is paying under $100 for twice the coverage.  How?  Well, a lot of 
	clubs in Ontario had this problem.  

	The Motorsport Club of Ottawa dropping a pick-up with father/daughter 
	through the ice on the Ottawa River a couple years ago woke a lot 
	of people up.  

	A great number of British Car clubs banded together and formed the 
	British Car Council.  The BCC is an incorporated body, with British 
	car clubs as members (no individual memberships available).  Clubs
	pay a set fee based on the size of local members.  This fee covers
	BCC opeations and an insurance policy that covers all events put
	on by member clubs.  (non moving accidents.  moving accidents are
	covered by vehicular insurance at events).  OVLR can hold events 
	anywhere in Ontario/Canada (not sure on the scope here) and be
	covered by this insurance policy.  (Note:  With the BCC, a club
	does not have to be incorporated like OVLR is.  OVLR thought it
	safer to go ahead anyway and incorporate.  When a club starts to
	gather assets, incorporation is always a good idea.  In fact it
	is a good idea anyway)

	USA clubs should seriously consider banding together with other
	British marque clubs and doing the same (though probably on a state
	by state basis.  No idea how USA law works).  Costs drop 
	significantly when numbers grow larger.  Safety in numbers...

	I am surprised that Canadian clubs have actually managed to get
	farther ahead than the Americans in this regard.  We have not	
	experienced the litigation, or the huge outragious settlements
	that have occured in the USA.  We are driven by fear of the
	same happening in Canada, but the USA clubs should have been
	way ahead in this matter.  (I believe that ARC provides similar
	protection for its member clubs as well as holding a number of other
	common "services" available for member clubs.  Ford/Chevy/ et al
	clubs in the USA may already have something like this established
	that clubs could piggyback onto.  Worth checking out.)

	Suggestion:  Clubs execs should check out their membership rolls
	and see if it includes any lawyers.  If so, approach them and see 
	if they will donate the time to incorporate your club.  All the 
	club pays are filing fees (which vary from state to state.  In 
	Canada filing Federally is about $250 with name search <1> etc.)
	If it is financially feasible to incorporate.  Do it.  Holding
	events afterwards can generate some funds to cover the annual
	costs.  Why bother having a club if it can actually do anything?
	We are here to do things (even if it is fighting with the aluminium
	pet every weekend or struggling with a plough harness), not be
	a bunch of posers.

	Rgds,

	Dixon

1.	if you have Rover or Land Rover in your name, don't expect to have
	Land Rover (UK) approve your use of it.  They have stopped (for how
	long we don't know) giving permission for clubs or bodies to use
	their name in legal documents.  Hence Ottawa Valley Land Rovers
	is actually OVLR Inc.

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Discovery Swimming
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:55:41 UNDEFINED

>at 50 MPH you could rip off the whole axle and still have enough momentum
>to reach the dry side.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>I just get out, stand in the water, use the hi-lift jack and put the
>rover back on firm ground. Very boring, I will admit.

My perspective? Many years ago, I was going to the pub at high speed in my 
Escort. Followed by a freind in a Capri. I came hammering round a corner and 
found the road was flooded. So I floored it and skated right across on the 
floorpan. My freind slammed on the anchors to come thru iin more conventional 
manner. He drowned about halfway thru as the wwater hit about 2 feet. I had to 
pull him out.....

With  a Landrover? I'd guess you'd get across just fine but have to go back 
for both axles and the frame.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:00:44 -0800
From: russ burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Manuals and dirty hands

Gee,
Maybe we could get paper towels printed up with a rover manual on them.......

>Another good route is to photocopy the pages (OHMIGOD copyright 
>infringement) you are using so the copies suffer the dirt and grunge. Also 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>used.
>Trevor  (call me "Dixon" when I'm at the copier) Easton

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 09:10:48 -0700
From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)
Subject: Re: Manuals and dirty hands

:Another good route is to photocopy the pages (OHMIGOD copyright
:infringement) you are using so the copies suffer the dirt and grunge. Also
:this way you can enlarge the page and make it easier to read when your eyes
:are full of dirt and grit from beneath your vehicle. While we are at it
:let's have the enlarged pages laminated and then they can be washed and re
:used.

Scandal! I personally find the grease on my manual invaluable. It serves as
a sort of service record allowing me to quickly ascertain what work I've
already accomplished. I was cruished when myt 5 year old Haynes manual
(with my through my frame replacement) was stolen along with all my tools
and spares a few months back.

-jory

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 09:21:09 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Disco repair manual

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Disco repair manual
Rob, I have the Discovery factory manual and binder. Paid somewhere around
the $125 range, maybe slightly more. I have referred to it on occasion for
the Range Rover, even though they're not quite the same, they're close
enough. I'd like to find someone with a RR manual that I can trade with.
Mine is in "new" condition. When (for example) I installed the Lock-Right
lockers in the RR, I xeroxed the appropriate pages from the Disco manual and
used the copies so I wouldn't mess up the manual.

Anyone want to trade for a (1987) RR manual? If not, Rob?

#=======#          ________           We make a living by what we get,
|__|__|__\___     /__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
| _|  |   |_ |}   \_/-\_|__/-\_|}
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill

------------------------------

From: Treit Le <Treit_Le@apprise.com>
Date:  7 Nov 95  9:17:34 
Subject: Cold Feet

Unfortunately, I don't have a Disco, but I did check into the extended 
warranty. My dealer offered one genuine warranty (4 years/60K miles) and 
various others from Fireman's Fund (up to 7 years/100K miles) They were quite 
expensive, but the nice thing was that you didn't have to buy them right away. 
You had up until 1 month or 1K miles, before the factory warranty expiration to 
buy. Of course prices could (will) go up in that time.

Some company named "Stan Alan" advertises warranties for many makes in the 
Autoweek classifieds. They offered a RR warranty at about half the dealer price 
(7 years/100K miles for $1500US.) I know nothing about these guys, and the 
company name sounds very fly-by-night. But it's worth a call and a copy of the 
ad may give you some leverage with the dealer.

500 miles in the RR, and nothing has fallen off yet. The glove box door doesn't 
always stay closed, but I have been driving a LITTLE more aggressively over the 
potholes than I used to.

All the warnings about saltwater have convinced me to stay in the Montauk 
Lighthouse parking lot and walk the beach. Oh well. But has anyone done the 
Rovers North off-road course. Thought it would make for an interesting weekend. 
And what are these LR "Wheels" sessions that the dealer brochure referred to.

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:39:57 -0500
Subject: Discovery Reliability

Several comments on the reliability of the Discovery for the person getting
cold feet:
I’m at 13,000 with a ‘95 Discovery purchased new in Atlanta.  I now reside in
Phoenix.  The Discovery has been in the dealer’s care for the normal checks.
 In addition to the normal checks, I had one interior piece replaced due to a
scratch (discovered during delivery) and I’ve had the transmission overheat
sensor replaced (yesterday).   Oh, I had the tires re-balanced during a
scheduled dealer check.

I suspect that I have more off-road miles than the “normal” Discovery.
 (Sorry.. not trying to put anyone down!).  At least in comparison to the few
*pristine* Discovery that reside in my neck of the woods.  In fact, if you
saw the new Discovery commercial that was shown on ESPN2, my wife remarked
that that is how I usually come home.... extremely dirty.  Where are the
elephants when you need them?   Heck, I was almost grateful to have the
dealer fix the minor repair in order to get it cleaned up!  (Disclaimer: if I
lived anywhere else but dry-dry Phoenix, I wouldn’t let dirt & dust
accumulate on it!  Frame rust?  Here?)  

New Vehicle Protection Warranty:  Spoke to the dealer in Scottsdale yesterday
regarding the new warranty.  The factory warranty is 3 years, 42K miles...
whichever comes first.  The GE warranty adds 4 years up to 100K miles.  Their
price was $2175. Jeeez!   I spoke to the dealer in Atlanta this morning.
 Their price was significantly less.  My advice: you better shop around.  I
would imagine that ANY dealer would be willing to write you a policy for a
piece of the action.  Imagine, several hundred dollars profit for 15 minutes
worth of work.  Give it a shot.

Price increases:  The Atlanta guys did have a slight price increase and
should rightfully be charging over $2k for the increased warranty.  They
choose not to since they felt there would be consumer resistance at the $2k
figure and they wouldn’t sell any.  If there is another price increase,
they’ll up their’s.

Bottom line:  I’ve had less trouble with this vehicle than any other I’ve
owned.  Amazing considering where we’re been together.  Expectations for the
future:  I expect things to break considering how hard we go at it.  I also
expect to do the work myself once the vehicle is out of warranty  (either the
factory or the extended if I go that route.... and I probably will).   From
what seem on the LRO and the west-coast list, if you aren’t willing to work
on it yourself (after warranty),  you’re just another yuppie looking for
status. 

Gerry “Latte .... nah... creek water" Elam

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:54:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Manuals and dirty hands

On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, jory bell wrote:

> Scandal! I personally find the grease on my manual invaluable. It serves as
> a sort of service record allowing me to quickly ascertain what work I've
> already accomplished. 

	I agree wholeheartedly.  In fact a clean manual is the sign of
	someone who might not actually do anything to his Land Rover,
	know how to do it, and/or has someone else do it.  A dirty manual
	can be considered a badge of honour.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:17:35 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: waving

> > trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                
> >  Four wheel drive allows you to get
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> Cheers
> Mike Rooth
 Oh absolutely. I speak from experience. But then, that's half the 
fun. Especially when you're alone.
Of course inaccessible doesn't nessasarily mean "remote", I suppose. 
In VT during mud season I pulled out a guy that was stuck in the road 
in front of my house. Had to dig down a foot just to reach his bumper. 
The road was like walking on a waterbed.
Man, I miss VT. :-(

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:39:31 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: clubs

Dixon writes:

snip
> 	However, off setting this pain is the fact if there is a lawsuit, \
> 	the corporation takes it in the chin.  The executive and membership 
> 	are safe.  

Dixon,
Perhaps  it's different in Canada, but one thing I learned working 
with cooperatives and serving as a director is that the board can be 
held accountable in a lawuit. However, the way the law is written 
right now (and it varies from state to state) is that it would have 
to be proved that the BoD acted without reasonable care, or knowledge that 
they were acting improperly. Of course you have to define "reasonable 
care". So anyway, at least here in the states, being incorporated 
doesn't automatically protect the BoD. Hence idemnification 
insurance for the BoD might be worth considering.

snip

> 	Suggestion:  Clubs execs should check out their membership rolls
> 	and see if it includes any lawyers.  If so, approach them and see 
> 	if they will donate the time to incorporate your club. 

Again, having worked with cooperatives (which are member based) be 
careful about having someone do it just because they're a 
member/lawyer. Some of the worst bylaws and articles of incorporation 
I've seen were written by a member/lawyer. This, of course, doesn't 
mean they can't do a good job. It just means they're another lawyer, 
maybe good, maybe bad.
It reminds me of the blurb I heard on the radio the other day. The 
late Chief Justice Burger wrote his own will and now it's going to 
cost his heirs mucho dollars. 

snip

Your suggestion about a national organization for clubs is a good 
idea in order to reduce the cost of insurance for events.

ps. Define "shame" as in "That's a shame."

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:46:23 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Hub nut socket?

tim harincar asks:
snip
> Question: Do I really need the $25 hub nut socket? My Rover budget is getting 
> a little lean, with the exhaust and electrics *last* month, and xmas next 
> manth...
snip

Do you or a friend have a welder? If so, you can make your own. I did 
when my store-bought one went walkabout.
A half or 3/4 in drive socket to fit would cost more that $25.
I've seen many hub nuts done up with a chisel. Uuggghhhh. It gives me 
the shivers.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:11:13 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: clubs

I wrote:
Snip

> held accountable in a lawuit. However, the way the law is written 
> right now (and it varies from state to state) is that it would have 
> to be proved that the BoD acted without reasonable care, or knowledge that 
> they were acting improperly.

Boy, that's not clear. What I meant is that it would have to be 
proven that they knew that they were acting improperly or that they 
acted without  "reasonable care".

Snip

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:04:01 +0000
From: C.Morgan@soc.staffs.ac.uk (Craig Morgan)
Subject: Re: Virgin Airlines

At 4:46 am 6/11/95, you wrote:

>There was a story about why Richard Branson chose a fleet of RR's to
>use for his limo service, anyone remember the details of it?

Yup,
        As best I remember it ... he and his family were involved in a
high-speed roll on a UK motorway in a a recent RR. They all escaped pretty
much unscathed, bruises and abrasions only (RR was totalled, rolling a
number of times). He cited this and the luxurious transport (ie. height,
air suspension, etc) as his reason for choice.

        Personally I believe that marketing must have come into it as well,
he got a lot of column inches in the UK for what on the surface would have
been a very low-key issue. LR made something of it as well in the UK, so he
got good coverage all ways. Pretty astute marketing and free publicity for
his new scheme ... he seems clever at linking his personal life to 'Virgin'
the brand ;-)

--
Craig

                            ,,,   Wot, NO mountains!
 ======================oOO=(o o)=OOo===================================
  Craig Morgan              (_)      Lecturer, CS Group
  School of Computing                Email: C.Morgan@soc.staffs.ac.uk
  Staffordshire University           Phone: +44 (0)1785 353466
  Beaconside                         Fax:   +44 (0)1785 353497
  Stafford, UK  ST18 0DG             Pager: +44 (0)839 453754

  "It's the downhill thrills, that make the uphill slog worthwhile..."
 ======================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:55:56 -0700 (MST)
From: Rob Bailey <baileyr@sun.cuug.ab.ca>

> Heck, let's test OVLR's sense of humour:
>      I thought  `....ca.us'  was Canada.us  are you telling me
>      it's califonia after all?

Oh, god... I didn't miss another referendum, did I?

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:02:30 -0700 (MST)
From: Rob Bailey <baileyr@sun.cuug.ab.ca>
Subject: RE: Kodiak heater knobs

>anyone removed the knobs from a kodiak heater ? I want to get the knobs 
>off 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>and 
>pull, nothing.   

You have to put a small screwdriver in and pry at the spring clip inside. 
I can't remember if you pry in or out, but I believe it was in (i.e. you 
pull the screwdriver away from the mounting panel, towards yourself, as it 
levers on the bottom of the knob). You then pull the knob off, as you 
are prying. My came off quite easily.

Hope it helps,
Rob

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Discovery Swimming
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:55:41 UNDEFINED

>at 50 MPH you could rip off the whole axle and still have enough momentum
>to reach the dry side.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>I just get out, stand in the water, use the hi-lift jack and put the
>rover back on firm ground. Very boring, I will admit.

My perspective? Many years ago, I was going to the pub at high speed in my 
Escort. Followed by a freind in a Capri. I came hammering round a corner and 
found the road was flooded. So I floored it and skated right across on the 
floorpan. My freind slammed on the anchors to come thru iin more conventional 
manner. He drowned about halfway thru as the wwater hit about 2 feet. I had to 
pull him out.....

With  a Landrover? I'd guess you'd get across just fine but have to go back 
for both axles and the frame.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:19:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: clubs

On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Tom Rowe wrote:

> Perhaps  it's different in Canada, but one thing I learned working 

	USA is a whole different ball of wax...  Like with UIC comparisons,
	it would have to be treated as 50 different countries when it comes
	down to laws governing all this stuff.  General guidelines are
	are all I could really come up with.

> care". So anyway, at least here in the states, being incorporated 
> doesn't automatically protect the BoD. Hence idemnification 
> insurance for the BoD might be worth considering.

	This is getting potentially expensive.  Of course, the BoD can
	display "due care", or whatever the applicable term is, displaying
	they did take all reasonable precautions.

> member/lawyer. Some of the worst bylaws and articles of incorporation 
> I've seen were written by a member/lawyer. This, of course, doesn't 
> mean they can't do a good job. It just means they're another lawyer, 
> maybe good, maybe bad.

	Very true.  Just suggesting an alternative to cut down on potential
	costs to the club in this process.
	
> Your suggestion about a national organization for clubs is a good 
> idea in order to reduce the cost of insurance for events.

	All depends on how USA law works in these matters...  Idea on
	a simplier basis has been discussed before.  Time for people 
	to do it is entirely another matter.

> ps. Define "shame" as in "That's a shame."

	unfortunate.  As opposed to other meanings of shame which imply
	guilt, dishonour etc.  Statement can be taken as being almost
	meaningless, just a statement, to one where the speaker actually
	feels sympathy for an incident that occured, yet should not have
	in an ideal world.  Why?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 09:26:08 -1000
From: jhong@lava.net (John Y Hong)
Subject: re:The tangled webs we weave...

Dave, from the home office in DC says:

>From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>

>Listen Up!
>I think everybody (except where Dixon goes to put his plow together) is
forgetting what's actually important...  >Everybody needs to put down their
valiums. GO OUTSIDE and sit in your Land-Rover, if you've got one, 
>and take a deep inhale.  Smell that rotting upholstery.  Smell the gear
oil.  Start it up.  Smell the exhaust.  Open >the window.  Start it again.
This is what Land-Rover's are about. 
[snip]
>But give me a choice and I'd rather be outside driving around in my Rover!
Or, I mean, er...working on my >Rover...  Nuff said.

Ah how true it is!  I've been stuck in Hawaii for about 3 weeks while me
landy sits under a tarp in  San Francisco.
I think I'll be able to arrange to have it shipped over to Honolulu in about
a month.  I can just picture it - roaring around Oahu (me exhaust pipe is
loose at the header) sans roof, big s-eating grin on my face - cause driving
your rover is what it is all about - drips, leaks and #@%&6!!! - included.

aroha

john

------------------------------

From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar)
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 14:25:56 -0700
Subject: Possible new club & misc

Hi all,

Last weekend I met with another fellow here in town and we discussed the 
formation of a new LR club. Thanks to Roger Sinasohn for sending me a list of 
LROA members here in Minnesota, one of which was the person I met with.

Its interesting, really. Two of the people I spoke on that list, including 
the one I hooked up with, were both turned off by the local LROA chapter. 
Seems the chapter has gone through a lot of personell changes, and the status 
is unknown. Other reasons they sited included meets and meetings that were 
too distant for urban residents, and general attitude regarding things like 
Tread Lightly and safety. While none of this I can confirm personally, as I 
have never attended a meet or meeting, nor seen any of their vehicles 
personally, I can say that I agree with the ideals of the chap I had 
discussions with, who at this point refuses to drive with them.

Anyhow, thats not the real point, as I was unsure just from the location 
whether or not I was going to join that local chapter. We decided that maybe 
there was room in this state for another group, with a little different 
focus, and that we'd set about making it happen. 

We're in the process of getting a note in the next RN newsletter, and somehow 
contacting the other Rover owners in town. RN seems to be a good way to get 
to other Series owners, but we'd like to get a good mix of vehicles (he has a 
RR). 

Any thoughts on contacting people?

He gave me a video with highlights of the '80 - '85 camel trophies. Good fun! 
Lots of different vehicles used during those years, two door RRs, Series 
IIIs, Defenders, even Jeeps the first year!

There was also some video from England with off road rallies whith lots of 
modified LRs racing. 

Anyhow, it was a lot of fun meeting with another Rover-head, and I think that 
a club would be great fun. If your in the Twin Cities area and lurking, drop 
me a note if you'd like to ba a part.

Have fun,

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW aka "Algernon"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:35:45 -0800
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: Picking up new RR

I take it yours is a Classic?

Just curious, does anyone on the list have experience with the Range Rover's 
air suspension in the wild?  I mean, can/does it break down, and if so are 
you totally buggered (to use a British expression)?

Also, does the Disco feature a self-levelling system?

-Matt
'88 RR

------------------------------

From: Augustus John Pertalion <ap12536@xx.acs.appstate.edu>
Subject: Carburetor Query
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:50:01 -0500 (EST)

I need to replace the carb on my LR.  It's a Solex that has been rebuilt at
least twice.  I was wondering what experience (or satisfaction) other people
have had with another Solex, or replacement with a Zenith or Weber carb. I drivethe thing every day and am interested in more power and better gas mileage.(I amtotally serious about this! Do not laugh!)  Seriously though, any input based 
on experience would be welcome.

John Pertalion
Appalachian State University
Boone, NC USA
'60 II 88"  "Gumdrop"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:09:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: re:The tangled webs we weave...

On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, John Y Hong wrote:

> Ah how true it is!  I've been stuck in Hawaii for about 3 weeks while me
> landy sits under a tarp in  San Francisco.

	<ack!>

> a month.  I can just picture it - roaring around Oahu (me exhaust pipe is
> loose at the header) sans roof, big s-eating grin on my face - cause driving
> your rover is what it is all about - drips, leaks and #@%&6!!! - included.

	You gonna toss the tarp & put a palm top on?  Lei about the 
	bonnet mounted spare?  Grass skirt (optional on LR & you)

	:-)

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:43:11 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: waving

Mike Rooth wrote:

>On the other hand Tom,perhaps they *do*.Lowering thought,isnt it?:-)

Mike,
Well I'm asleep I guess. Everything but my sig got truncated so I 
thought you were implying that I was just joking about my sig. Now I 
realize you were referring to people not knowing what I drive.
Now that I understand, I can make the appropriate reply.
Piss off, mate  ;-)

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:48:29 -0800
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: Camel video

Regarding Russ's comments about the ESPN show, I acknowledge that a goodly 
portion of the coverage was of the special tasks at the beginning and end of 
the trip, such as a foot race with tires and equipment, canoing, etc.  
Another goodly portion involved interviews with the US team members.  In 
between was some fluff about the Miyan sites visited.  However, I was 
interested to learn about the different parts of the event, including the 
U.S. trials (I hope to spectate in Hollister this year, and it was evident 
from the show that there were spectators in Colorado last year), and the 
international trials.  Also, I was interested to see footage, however brief, 
of the famous task involving pulling the Discoveries across a deep river 
using only human power.  

Also, it was interesting to learn about the theme of the event, namely the 
emphasis on teamwork (ala military bootcamp), and treading more or less 
lightly on the wilderness, as opposed to balls-to-the-wall 4-wheeling.  
Nestled between coverage of formula racing, it was poignant.

Also of interest to me was a detail about the US team's performance: when 
Daphne was injured, 1. she was disqualified by a doctor (as opposed to 
voluntarily withdrawing), and 2. she was replaced, per rules, by a US 
journalist.  I hadn't learned these facts from any other source.  Did anyone 
else know them?

One major disappointment to me was that we never once saw the participants 
take a tool to the Discoveries.  I know those diesel engines are reliable, 
but come on!  I wanted to see the 2:00 am transmission work in the mud.

If anyone reads this far, might someone tell me what an NAS vehicle does on 
safari when unleaded fuel is unavailable?  I guess for a serious trip you 
might remove the catalytic converter, but what if I want to go down to Baja 
for a few days?  What damage would befall the cat from leaded fuel?

Finally, an explanation of Russ's dissatisfaction might be that the show was 
actually an hour, not 30 minutes as he seemed to think.

-Matt

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 17:04:48 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: A rovein we shall go...

Here lies the fruit of my wasted time... enjoy.
Dave Bobeck
(copyright1995)
                   _ -| -H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H
                 -|  ____||-(#)------------_(#)|
                 /~~~____--\==^===^==\\==^===^==\
                 ||~~||  |  \       / \\      /  \
                 ||  ||  |   \     /   \0 MMMMMMMMMMMMMM           0
                 || _||__|----||~(~~~~~)~\MMMMMMMMMMMMMM_____     /
                 |~~  |       | -----~~~~~\~~~~~~~\==_____===|~~\~~~~~\
                 |    |D      |           |o o    | )|###|( )|  |  o o|
                 | /\ |       |  /~~\     |       |__|###|___|  |     |
                 ||/~||       || /~~\|    |       |#########||  |     |
   /\\\\\\\       | _~~---___ |||    |    |       |#########||_ |     |
\\\\\\\\\\\\      | ~ ||     ~~~| __ |___[~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~]
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\-\_//-\\\\\\\\| ~~ |||\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~I~~~III~~~~~
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\|    |||\\\\                 |   |||
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \__///  \\\\-\\\\\\--\\\\\\--\_///-\\\\__
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\                  \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\                             \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\          LAND--------ROVER           \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\                               \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\                  \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

------------------------------

From: "Kaplan, Richard" <KAPLANR@dct.nci.nih.gov>
Subject: '95 Disco still running
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 17:14:00 est

With regard to identifying anyone with a Disco who may NOT have a disastrous 
story to tell, I and my Disco have lurked for 7200 miles (which, I 
sheepishly admit, were on pavement) with no problems.  Of course, it (if it 
had a name, he'd be called William so as not to render jealous his older 
siblings, William, a '54 Morris Minor Traveller, and William de, a 53-54 
Morgan +4) is now due for its 7500-mi service, so I may yet have terrors to 
describe.  Also, coming out of the electronic closet and even MENTIONING my 
lack of bad luck seems like an attempt to anger the gods.

Rick Kaplan
National Cancer Institute
kaplanr@dct.nci.nih.gov

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:25:12 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Fuels in Baja/ was Camel video

On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Matt Snyder wrote:

Snipped

> If anyone reads this far, might someone tell me what an NAS vehicle does on 
> safari when unleaded fuel is unavailable?  I guess for a serious trip you 
> might remove the catalytic converter, but what if I want to go down to Baja 
> for a few days?  What damage would befall the cat from leaded fuel?

With specific regard to Baja, the best petrol available in Mexico (at least 
last time I drove through there) is unleaded.  Did a job on my 1968 VW 
camper, too.  It thought it needed leaded fuel and the leaded stuff was 
such low octane that we had to mix it to get an acceptable fuel (am I 
dating myself?)

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
               Walter C. Swain          |  wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us 
               Davis Community Network  |  1988 Range Rover
               Davis, California        |  1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:46:29 +1100 (EST)
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: engine conversions

Don:
   there is some stuff at http://www.sofcom.com.au/4WD/4WD.html
on Landy engine conversions, including a pointer to Mark's
adaptors - and Sarry at Mark's takes email queries.

Is anyone collecting the trivia questions ? (please).

Lloyd

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 17:35 MST
From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II)
Subject: Update from the hospital

I am progressing well in the hospital.  I am scheduled for a skin
graft on Thursday morning.  This will cover the third degree burn area
on my left side.  Every day for over a week now, I have been going to
physical therapy in the morning.  There, my bandages are removed, and
I sit in the whirlpool for 20 or 30 minutes so my wounds, especially
the ones on my back, are cleaned.  Then they scrape off as much dead
skin as possible, and put fresh ointment and bandages on.  I also get
new bandages and ointment every evening.  The wounds on my hands have
almost completely healed.  

After my skin graft, I will be in the hospital for another 7 to 10
days.  I will not be able to go to work immediately after that.  If
the federal government shuts down, I won't have to worry about that.

I have received many letters, cards, and gifts.  A lot of Land Rover
owners have sent me pictures of their vehicles.  I also have two
matchbox Land Rovers, and a bumper sticker that says "I'd rather be
driving my Land Rover" This is taped to my bed.  My friends and
relatives have turned my room into a confectioner's shop, with all the
cakes and cookies.  I receive regular visits from those who can, so I
am enjoying this as much as one can possibly enjoy the hospital. 

I just want to thank you all for your support, your reading material,
and your prayers.  Kelly has stopped wondering why I have so many
friends on the Land Rover lists - she now sees it is because you all
are great people.

James

------------------------------

From: Treit Le <Treit_Le@apprise.com>
Date:  7 Nov 95 17:57:01 
Subject: Re: Picking up new RR

>I take it yours is a Classic?

Yep, rationalized that I didn't like the looks of the 4.0SE, too big for my 
parking space and so forth and so on.....Hopefully, the looks and my disposable 
income will grow on me by the time my lease is up. The Classic unfortunately is 
a slug compared to even a 6 cylinder unamed American 4wd vehicle. I believe 
that the 4.6 resolves that issue.

>Just curious, does anyone on the list have experience with the Range Rover's 
>air suspension in the wild?  I mean, can/does it break down, and if so are 
>you totally buggered (to use a British expression)?

One of those Road & Driver or Car and Track type magazines did a short take on 
the 4.6HSE where they said that they blew the air-suspension on one wheel while 
off-road, and said that LR was very interested in getting it back to the shop 
for inspection as they claimed that it could never have happened. I personally 
have (ab)used mine by playing with it at stop lights to the point where it 
refused to function until the compressor could cool down. This of course is a 
self-preservation feature.

>Also, does the Disco feature a self-leveling system?

I just looked at the '96 Disco brochure (gotta see it, it's as thick as a 
magazine except legal sized) under suspension. They said coil springs,hydraulic 
dampers, sway bars, radius arms, panhard rods, trailing links, central A-frame, 
but nothing about self-leveling.

Noticed 2 new Discos in my company parking lot today. Flurries predicted for 
tomorrow.

------------------------------

From: LANROVEFN@aol.com
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:24:11 -0500
Subject: Duck in the steering wheel

My 94 Disco has a duck in its steering wheel too.  Bit annoying but it goes
away when the cabin temp heats up.  A few other items of note.  Got lucky
when I found  old model kits of Land Rovers.  Bought em all.  One was a sIII
from Monogram, a pink panther sIIa from Tamiya, a Camel Trophy 2 door Range
Rover from Esci and a 109 also from Esci.  All previous models are believed
to be discontinued.  Revell of Germany just released a beautiful Range Rover
in 1/24 scale.  $$$ though, about  $45.  I also found a Tamiya Rover 7
ambulance.  Looks like a busy winter.
Paul Miller Land Rover of NJ just had their"wheels" event last weekend.  Fred
Monsees Camel Trophy 1990?  took us through the forest trails of Milford PA.
 Great day for" Rovin' with the autumn leaves in their prime.  We had 40 or
so cars with one SII from Basking Ridge NJ.  I met a few old friends from the
Downeast Rally at the event too.  The "I knew it would happen" award goes to
Paul Miller for taking a RR 4.6 off road and getting a flat tire on one of
those ridiculous 18" tires.  Thanks to Tony in a white 94 Disco for bringing
a wooden board to mount the tire jack on.

Cheers,
Mike Schmidt
94 Disco
74 sIII ( in 1/24 scale)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 18:43:12 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hub nut socket?

At 10:47 AM 11/7/95 -0700, you wrote:
>As long as I'm going to tear apart my brakes, I'm going to fix my leaky hubs 
>as well.
>Question: Do I really need the $25 hub nut socket?

I assume by hub nuts you mean the two large-diameter nuts that hold the hub
on the stub axle.  The hub nuts are big and no standard socket will fit
them.  However, they should not be wrenched down on very tightly, since
doing so will squeeze the bearings in their races  (at least this is how it
appears from tearing mine down; if someone has contrary info, please speak
up.)  Instead, they should be just snug.  They are kept secure by robust
locking washers.  So, hopefully, you'll be able to get them off with some
skinny-nosed channel lock pliers and a little ingenuity and cussing.  

If the nuts are on really tight, you can always use a chisel/screwdriver and
hammer and loosen them that way (you know, applying chisel to edge and
knocking counterclockwise.)  Yes the nuts will be ugly afterwards, but you
can buy brand new pretty nuts for a couple bucks and save $20 off the socket.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:21:30 -0500
From: Tim McDaniel <mcdaniel@adra.com>
Subject: Hub nut socket

        My only comment on the hub nut socket question pertains to past 
        vehicles that I have owned (starts with "Toy").  I found the 
        investment in the socket to be well worth the money since you
        cannot predict what the circumstances will be like when you
        doing the work.  For me, I'm thinking mainly about how cold it 
        will be at the time the work is being done and the amount of
        frustration that will be avoided by using other methods.

        Unless it breaks it's an investment in the vehicle like any
        other long term part...Just my two cents.

                        Tim

    +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
    | Tim McDaniel                               (508) 937-3700 ext. 725   |
    | Adra Systems, Inc.                         (508) 453-2462 (FAX)      |
    | 2 Executive Drive                                                    |
    | Chelmsford, MA  01824                      mcdaniel@adra.com         |
    | USA                                                                  |
    +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:32:44 -0800
From: jcwhite3@well.com (John C. White, III)
Subject: Re: 

Welcome to California, Dude!

;-)
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California

At 11:55 07.11.95 -0700, Rob Bailey wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>Oh, god... I didn't miss another referendum, did I?
>Rob
Cheers!
John

------------------------------

From: Brian Neill Tiedemann <s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: many..
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 14:49:35 +1100 (EDT)

'Evnin' all,
Exams, I hate exams!! Just offered a gold pass to the F1 GP in Adelaide 
this w.e. for free, and ticket to the ball after the race (with drivers)....
leaving Thursday, back late Monday. Guess what? Exam Friday, and exam 
Monday ! :((((  (sob)

Now,
1. Jim mentioned something about LR not branching out into pianos/elec. 
guitars, BUT in a Websearch for Land Rover, I turned up an article on the 
LR bike- yep that is bicycle! Shown at a motor show in Germany 
recently... can't recall too many details, but had "suspension" and 
looked kinda low slung. I'll check the address up next time at uni.

2. There has been some discussion of the "distance piece" which the hub 
seal rides on and seals (leaks) against. Now somewhere at Solihull, there 
was a communication problem, because this piece appears in RR (early at 
least, later don't know) service manuals. The description of removal 
method includes the old cold chisel and mallet- great, BUT RR stub axles 
are actually machined to the shape of one having a separate distance 
piece, only from one piece of steel- that is, it looks as if there is a 
separate distance piece, but there is _not_ and any attempt to remove it 
by cold chiseling is simply butchering a stub axle.... to recondition RR 
stub axle sealing surface, a thin sleeve is added over the damaged seal 
surface. In all LR/RR products, check that the proceedure in the manual 
actually fits with the bits in your hand BEFORE any possibly damaging 
work is done.

(And offer sacrifice to Murphy and Joe wherever possible)
(maybe mother-in-law?)
;)

Alan mentions brackets for mounting his old steering damper to the front 
steering rod: Is this the same setup as is seen on LR Defenders? Was 
that the source of the brackets? Any reason not to use the Defender
setup only, and do away with the (vulnerable) RR position beneath the diff?
I have been considering doing this, and probably will try it soon- I have 
yet to make up some kind of chasis bracket for the other end of the damper.
I would like to use the drag link protector setup of a Defender, but the 
steering damper gets in the way, so using the whole Defender system seems 
logical- Damper then acts on the front tie rod- between steering box and 
LH front wheel (Australia).

All this WWW political crap is giving me a headache- great to see the 
digest at double its normal size, but couldn't it be for the sake of more 
technical/rover-ical/trip-ical/friend-ical -even- triv-ial posts, not 
"petty" bickering over the Web.

BTW for anyone not offended by the above paragraph:
My dad's better than your dad!!
;)

Lastly, from what I have seen, Disco steel (star pattern) wheels do fit 
directly onto a RR with no mods, although the wheel offset may be 
different - don't know. Defender wheels should fit straight onto a series 
LR too, in fact any of the 5 stud LR wheels with a big hole in the middle 
- big enough to clear the drive flange, should fit any of the LR/RR/Disco 
vehicles, though this does not take the offset differences into account.
Offset is the distance from the inside or outside of the rim where the 
wheel stud flange rides- that is, how far into the rim the end of the 
axle will protrude, or how far from the end of the axle the outside of 
the rim will protrude. This affects the overall wheel track, and does 
vary from one vehicle to another.
RR wheels differ because they do not actually have the drive flange 
poking through them. Instead they have a small hole in the centre, but 
otherwise cover the drive flange. The "spoke" raised sections of the RR 
rim's star pattern fit over the cast reliefs of a 5 bolt drive flange 
which seems to be unique to the coil sprung vehicles. This means that if 
you want to fit them to a series LR, the hub and drive flange, or middle 
section of the rim would have to be modified.

Seeya,
Brian.
77 RR

------------------------------

From: Drrover@aol.com
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:17:46 -0500
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

My new discovery has an idle problem.
Please advice me about the rough idle .THANKS

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:17:24 -0500
From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall B. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Hub nut socket?

>As long as I'm going to tear apart my brakes, I'm going to fix my leaky hubs 
>as well.
>Question: Do I really need the $25 hub nut socket?
>Can I make do with another socket or is this some wierd size?

You don't *really* need the socket. I do it the right way now with the
socket and a dial gauge indicator to properly set the end float on the wheel
bearings.  However, before I was so fortunate, I would wing it with a large
set of channel locks and, yes, a cold chisel too, (but only to get them
off).  Setting the end float up without a dial gauge is easy.  If you
tighten the first nut to the point where you can just notice that there is
no wiggle in the hub, (Do this with the wheel and tire mounted, it's easier
to feel) then back off one flat of the nut.  After you drive the car for a
while, if you can feel wiggle, then you've got it too loose. If you drive 30
miles or so and you put your hand on the hub drive flange and almost burn
yourself, then it's too tight.  

Even with the socket you would never need to use a drive handle to tighten
the nut.  Hand tightening with the socket alone will get you there.  

Make sure you spread Hylomar (Loctite 819) around the outside of the inner
hub seal before installing it.  This will eliminate any seepage of any kind.
My backing plates are now completely stain free.

P.S. While you've got the hub off you should consider properly deshimming
the top bearing of the swivel ball.  If you haven't done this and your car
is high mileage, you'd be surprised how much this improves handling. 

 

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: many..
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:06:00 +1030 (CST)

Brian informs us...
> Just offered a gold pass to the F1 GP in Adelaide this w.e. for free

And verily I say good job too....  My first opportunity to get to a GP
without having to fly 3000Km to get there and guess where I'm going
saturday...  Good old Melbourne.  Oh well at least i didnt shell out $450 for
a gold pass only to have to give it away.

> My dad's better than your dad!!
Na na na na na.  My Landrover's bigger than yours....

> Lastly, from what I have seen, Disco steel (star pattern) wheels do fit 
> directly onto a RR with no mods, although the wheel offset may be 
> different - don't know.

Ok some tech stuff first  Offset is the distance between the centre line of
the rim and the mounting flange face.  in set/outset is the distance from the
rim inside/outside edge to the flange face.

post late 68 LWB landrovers (5.5 x 16),110's and defender110's (5.5 x 16)
rangie steels (6.0 x 16) and disco steels (7.0 x 16) *all* have 33mm positive
offset (1 5/16").  ie the flange is 33mm away from the centre line and
towards the outside of the rim.    so the rim is offset 33mm inwards.
(defender 130 are 6.5 x 16 with 20.?mm offset)

so the offset is the same  but inset differs because the width of the rim
differs. 

so the 5.5 x 16 109, 110 etc has something like 120mm or about 4 3/4 " inset
the rangie 6.0 x 16 steel  about 125  mm  or 5"
the disco 7.0 x 16 has about 140mm or 5 1/2"  inset

as data point the early (pre-late 68) 109 rims and 88" 5.5 option rims were 1
13/16 offset (46mm) and had about 135mm ~5 1/4 inset.  these do fit the later
109's as thats whats on my stage 1, but they reduce your turning circle a
bit. :-(

so there is a lot of cross compatability if you exclude the "oddball" rangie
5 spoke rim.

just todays useless information....

-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

From: GJevne@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:58:26 -0500
Subject: rro

rro

------------------------------

From: GJevne@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:59:48 -0500
Subject: eu-lro

eu-lro

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:04:32 -0700 (MST)
From: beesley@primenet.com (Brad Beesley)
Subject: 101 FC Questions

Friends

I have some questions regarding the 101 Foward Control hardtop van or the
ambulance. I am planning a trek called "50 states in 50 weeks". It is a
writing excurstion and plan to drive to some of the most remote regions of
the US. I am at the point of choosing a vehicle, to be converted to a
camper/office. The 101 FC looks interesting, and I have a couple of
questions.

First, for those of you who say that a 101 can't be legally imported...I
understand that there are some new laws that will be in effect in '96 that
may allow this vehicle in, and I have a friend of a friend who was a
big-wig at the DMV....so, there may be a chance...will keep you posted.

101 Questions:
1) does anyone have the cargo area dimensions of the radio or the ambulance
2) is the cockpit area open to the cargo area, ie: is it a walk-through
3) reliability..I could be stuck in Mayberry with Gomer at the station
4) how will she function in severe weather -20 to 110
5) what is in the space over the cab on the ambulance, can I sleep there

Forest Gump-ville, Here I come! thanks

Brad Beesley
310-374-2498

___________________________________________________________________
                      beesley@primenet.com

                   Seven Thorns of the Crown
               http://www.primenet.com/~beesley/
___________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 22:20:19 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hub nut socket?

At 11:17 PM 11/7/95 -0500, you wrote:

>P.S. While you've got the hub off you should consider properly deshimming
>the top bearing of the swivel ball.  If you haven't done this and your car
>is high mileage, you'd be surprised how much this improves handling. 

Agreed.  Of course, while you're at it you should replace the swivel ball
seals, then might as well do the axle end seal, and before you know it the
whole Rover is in pieces.  Seriously, I think if you've got the gelt and are
tearing into the hubs, you should do the whole thing -- all seals, check
bearings, replace swivel ball bushings, etc.  If money won't support the
whole parts bill (approx. $150 if you skip new bearings) then at least
adjust the shims on the swivel balls.  You probably won't even have to buy
new shims, just remove one of the old ones, so the extra parts bill is $0.
I don't recall who asked the initial question, but if you have questions
about the swivel ball procedure just ask.  I've recently done it and various
others on the list offered plenty of good advice.

------------------------------

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	Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved. 

Digest Messages Copyright 1990-2011 by the original poster or/and
	Bill Caloccia,
	All rights reserved.