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Date: Fri, 03 Nov 1995 00:22:51 +0000
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: RoverWeb pilfered??

On Wed, 4 Oct 1995, Nick Baggarly asked Ray Harder about the status of the
RoverWeb page and volunteers his help:
        N>> Subject: RoverWeb last update?
        N>> My name is Nick Baggarly and I'm with the Land Rover Owners Assoc.
        N>	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 16 lines)]
        N>> Nick C. Baggarly, Los Gatos, Cale
And Ray responds on 4 Oct 1995:
        R> nick, regarding your message and the roverweb page:
        R> i am a member of lroa -- keep up the good work.
        R> at one time in my life i had time and i took on the roverweb
        R> with good intentions.  work has consumed me and I have not
        R> had the time to keep it current.  i feel guilty, but it does
        R> not appear that things will change in the future for me.
        R> i could pass it along to someone else (thats how i acquired it --
  --->  R> greg hiner - hiner@mail.utexas.edu did almost all the work).
        R> or i could solicite help in keeping it current  (i am the
        R> sysadmin on a medium sized unix system and i could let some
        R> users sign in to do some web updating...)
        R> anyway, feel free to point to it and if you have ideas as to
        R> how to help me get/keep current, send em along.
        R> i always look forward to the aluminum workhorse -- read it from
        R> cover to cover on the first night.
        R> ray harder  -- 61 SIIa 88 named lulu.
On Tue, 17 Oct 1995 Michael Carradine volunteers to "sign in to do some web
updating":
        M> I didn't get the content of Nick Baggarly's message about updating
        M> the RoverWeb and-or LROA/NA, however, I am willing to help out (in
        M> my limited way) to update and or revise the RoverWeb site.  I think
        M> it's one of the premier Land-Rover sites, along with Lloyd Allisons
        M> Australian page, and should be kept current.
        M> Provided you have the disk space, one of the things I though might
        M> be fun to do is to offer the entire Aluminum Workhorse magazine on
        M> the Web.
Ray Harder responds Wed, 18 Oct 1995 outlining his understanding and vision:
        R> Mike, Dixon, Ben:  It is not clear what arrangements are being
        R> made for the ROVERWEB www site, but it is my vague reading that
        R> it is being incorporated into the LROA umbrella.
        R> "..The web site will be residing on a machine in S. California
        R> that is maintained by Ben Smith..."
        R> To have a quality site, one person would own the master page
        R> and solicite completed additions (most desirable:  html format)
        R> from other people contributing to the work.  perhaps long-distance
        R> telnet could allow for 2-3 people to share the workload.  My
        R> situation is:  to busy at work, not enough time for fun.
        R> I do have disk space and a blind html link back to www.missouri.edu
        R> might be something to consider in the future.
Dixon Kenner writes on Wed, 18 Oct 1995:
	D> Nope.  Not a chance that it will have anything to do with LROA.
	D> LROA is listed in the clubs section, though information on
	D> it will need to be updated.  That is as close as it gets to
	D> LROA.  RoverWeb will however co-exist with another website
	D> (not yet open) which relates closely to the RoverWeb.
On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith writes:
        B> The Ottawa Valley Land Rover Club, Inc.  has a brand new web page
        B> that has been in the making for months.  It can be found at:
        B> http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/
        B> In it is the new Land Rover FAQ (v3.0), which I've been working on
        B> with Dixon Kenner for the past few months.
  --->  B> Also, while preparing the OVLR site, it came to our attention that
        B> the RoverWeb needed a new home.  As of right now the new address of
        B> the RoverWeb is:  http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/RoverWeb/
        B> I encourage any any all submissions to the RoverWeb.
And on Wed, 1 Nov 1995 Dixon Kenner writes:
  --->  D> Many years ago TerriAnn wrote a short 12k file about the
    	D> Land Rover for the British Cars mailing list.  Little did 
	D> she know that this file would eventually form the basis of
	D> a much larger document and a World Wide Web site.
        D>
        D> About three/four years ago, I took TerriAnn's short document and
        D> wrote the first Land Rover FAQ.  Over subsequent months, the
        D> FAQ grew until it stabilised at approximately 99k.
        D>
        D> Later, Greg Hiner took this version of the FAQ, and a longer
  --->  D> (115k) version and wrote the first RoverWeb for Land Rover
        D> owners on the Internet.  Eventually, time restraints, load
        D> restrictions, etc. on the first RoverWeb site grew to an
        D> extent where the site had to be moved.
        D>
        D> At this time, both Ray Harder and I volunteered.  After some
        D> discussion, it was agreed that Ray would take over the site,
        D> put time and effort into the RoverWeb, and help it grow further.
  --->  D> Ray's efforts have created the best source of Land Rover information
        D> on the InterNet.  The RoverWeb even managed to get publicised
        D> briefly in the latest edition of Land Rover World where it
        D> is described as "the tip for lots of stuff on specifications,
        D> parts, general maintenance etc etc is the following address:
        D> http://www.missouri.edu/RoverWeb/."  It has also been described
        D> as the premier Rover site on the InterNet by others.
        D>
        D> Lately, time constraints have eaten into the time that Ray has
        D> available to maintain the site and it became necessary to move
  ?-->  D> the site yet again.  I and Ben Smith have volunteered to take over
        D> the RoverWeb and given it a new home.  After several weeks of work,
        D> Ben and I can happily announce that it is ready in its new home.
        D> As of this morning, the RoverWeb has been moved to a new site.  
        D>
        D> The RoverWeb now sits beside the Ottawa Valley Land Rovers
        D> web site, which itself carries a great amount of information
        D> (Hey, every club seems to be getting into the WWW trip, so we
        D> figured that it was about time the largest and oldest Canadian
        D> club got its Internet act together...  :-))
        D>
        D> The FAQ has again been expanded to where it is now approximately
        D> 270k in size.  Many portions have been completely rewritten and
        D> greatly expanded.
Nick C. Baggarly wrote on Wed, Nov  1:
        N> We heard a rumor that the RoverWeb needed a new home so on
        N> behalf of LROA, I sent Greg Hiner and Ray Harder some email
        N> on Monday asking if LROA could adopt it as the "LROA RoverWeb."
And Benjamin Allan Smith replied Wed, 1 Nov 1995:
        B> Ray posted it on the main list 3 or 4 weeks ago.  A day later he
        B> agreed to give it over to Dixon and I.  Origionally, when the
        B> RoverWeb moved from Greg, it was either going to Ray or Dixon.
        B> At that time Dixon found himself behind a firewall so it went to
        B> Ray.   Since the main part of the RoverWeb was the FAQ and the
        B> new FAQ was going in the OVLR page, it seemed best not to leave
        B> the Roverweb as a hollow shell so I think they go well together.
        B> ... Personally, the OVLR page has taken a most of my
        B> free time since I started it in mid-July.  (There was a lot of book
        B> research).
        B> Re hearing from Greg/Ray:  I dunno.  Email them again.  The plans to
  --->  B> open the OVLR and new RoverWeb site on 1 November were made 2 or 3
        B> weeks ago.  Your request came in at the last minute.
Then Nick C. Baggarly replied on Wed, Nov  1:
        N> Looks like my request came in too late. Now that the situation is
        N> known I suppose we will steer down a different road.  Thanks.
 ______________________________________________________________________________

 Well, Nick, we've been snubbed, finessed, and fricasseed with only a wimper.

 It was you that started the original inquiry into the dormant status of the
 RoverWeb pages on or prior to October 4, 1995, contrary to Ben Smith's last
 statement that "your request came in at the last minute" and therefore too
 late since "the plans to open the RoverWeb site were made 2 or 3 weeks ago".

 As to Ben Smith's statement about the RoverWeb needing a new home, "Ray posted
 it on the main list 3 or 4 weeks ago.  A day later he agreed to give it over
 to Dixon and I.", may be wishful thinking.  Even as late as Oct 18, after my
 inquiry, Ray Harder states, "It is not clear what arrangements are being made
 for the ROVERWEB www site, but it is my vague reading that it is being
 incorporated into the LROA umbrella", apparently his obvious first choice.
 Then Dixon Kenner retorts, "Nope.  Not a chance that it will have anything to
 do with LROA."

 In the mean time, Dixon Kenner and Ben Smith dismantled the RoverWeb and took
 it's centerpiece, the FAQ pages, and built the OVLR page around it.  Now the
 RoverWeb is left as a pittance of Web page, with a only couple of gems
 remaining.

 So how is it that Dixon Kenner proclaims himself 'Editor' of the RoverWeb Land
 Rover FAQ pages, and copyrights the material under his own name?  And how is it
 that the pages are now emblazoned with the Land-Rover logo (itself pilfered)
 and declared Ottawa Valley Land Rover Club, Inc. (OVLR) Web pages?  Not to say
 that Dixon Kenner did not contribute to the FAQ pages and may have a say as to
 their status, after all, the FAQ and RoverWeb were essentially private
 undertakings.  But wasn't it TerriAnn Wakemann who wrote the first 12K FAQ,
 that was expanded to 99K by Dixon Kenner?  And wasn't it Greg Hiner who took
 this small FAQ, AND a longer 115k version, and wrote the first RoverWeb putting
 it at a site at the Univerity of Texas?  As Ray Harder recalls, "Greg Hiner did
 almost all the work".  Was it not Ray Harder whose "efforts have created the
 best source of Land Rover information on the InterNet" at an EDU site in
 Missouri?  So who authorized Dixon Kenner to copyright the RoverWeb FAQ pages,
 which if anything were in the public domain in the US, and absorb them into the
 OVLR in Canada?  And, how is it that a US Government site in California is a
 server for an Ottawa, Canada WWW site anyway??

 So, Nick, as you say, "Now that the situation is known", we can deal with this
 invertabrae behaviour.  I suggest to Dixon Kenner and OVLR that the FAQ pages
 be returned to the public domain and remain in the US (where they are anyway)
 as part of the RoverWeb!  As Ray Harder suggested, "feel free to point to it",
 and "To have a quality site, one person would own the master page and solicit
 completed additions from other people contributing to the work."  I take this
 to mean that anyone can, is invited and encouraged to write a portion of a FAQ
 or any other related Land Rover material (retaining copyright) that can be
 linked appropriately in the RoverWeb, which in itself is the centerpiece of the
 entire Land Rover community --not just one or two Yahoo's acting on their own.

                          _____
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                          Rumpole of the Bay
 cs@crl.com               [________]                                 '65 IIA 88
 __________._______.____.._(o)__.(o)_______...o^^^^^^======o.._________________
 ______________________________________________________________________________
 ** Land-Rover Connection 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html **

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 20:30:53 +1100 (EST)
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: Trivia

What Land-Rover development project had the code-name `Discovery' ?

Lloyd
btw. yes, I believe all LR engines are tested at the angles mentioned.

------------------------------

From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 1995 11:21:38 +0001
Subject: LR watch!

Hello all,

Everyone might know this already, but there are some very nice original
LandRover watches available. One of these is on my wrist. It has a stainless
steel back and a LandRover green plate with goldplated arms( seconds,
minutes and hours) and one red arm for the alarm. The outer ring is
stainless steel with gold coloured numbers. It's water resistant up to 3
atm. It has also a LandRover green genuine leather wristband. Last but least
it has the LandRover logos on the plate.

I bougth this watch at the LR dealer. The LR partnr = 18STC8720. I paid
about US$ 83.00 for it.
LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR
                ____
      |   _____/|__||   Roy Wassili,<wassili@amc.uva.nl>
      |  /(-8|  \   |   Avalon Green '95 Dicovery,
  ____|_/[]__|__\___|#  scarved for live
 |] __=|     |  __  |#
[|_/  \|_____|_/  \_|]
  ( o )        ( o )

------------------------------

Date: 03 Nov 95 08:21:42 EST
From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com>
Subject: Trivia

 >> What Land-Rover development project had the code-name `Discovery' ? <<

 I believe that the new 4.0 SE was code-named 'Discovery' for a while until
the Disco was released

 Rob

     -------------------
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|
   |     |   ###   |     |      1972 SerIII 88
   |     | ####### |     |      1990 RangeRover
   |_____|_#######_|_____|
  [_______________________]
     |\/|           |\/|

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 03-Nov-1995

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 05:54:27 -0800 (PST)
From: "John C. White III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Land Rover Magazine

>From the magazine's masthead...

Editorial and Advertizing Departments:

Link House Magazines Ltd.
Dingwall Avenue
Croydon CR9 2TA
United Kingdom

Subscriptions:

Land Rover World Subscriptions Department
Hainault Road
Little Heath
Romford Essex RM6 5NP
United Kingdom

Cheers!
John

On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, Dark Dream Mists wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>  -Janine
>  morison@alumni.cco.caltech.edu

------------------------------

From: "Ahmad Ijaz" <AIJAZ@alston.cba.ua.edu>
Date:          Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:19:47 CDT
Subject:       camel trophy 95

    For those of us who do not get ESPN 2, Camel Trophy will be 
televised on ESPN on Tuesday, November 28th, at 12:30 a.m. and then 
again at 4:00 p.m. (central times).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:32:52 +0000
From: RMILLER@Middlebury.edu (Raoul Miller)
Subject: Re: trivia

>First, every Land Rover model's wheels are interchangeable except for one
>model - which one?

The 101 I believe has weird wheels - or that's what they said when they
converted them to the Judge Dreddmobile.

While I am on the line,does anybody have a parts 109 in the NE or Quebec
that they would be willing to sell?  e-mail me if poss. or if you know of
an abandoned individual in need of a good home
        Cheers
        Raoul

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 07:03:04 -0800
From: russ burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: D-90 ECU Unit

I had ac installed in my  94  D-90, and the ecu was moved to a less desirable
position on the side wall. Originly it was under the dash. The only concern I
had with it there, was the heat from the heater. With the heat on, the ecu
would get preety hot. I have been looking at moving it under the center console.

Russ Burns
91 R-rover
94 D-90
95 D-90 sw (on order)

At 11:46 PM 11/2/95 -0500, CpaulP@aol.com wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>Considering re-locating the ECU unit on my '95 Defender 90 to a position
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>etc). Does anyone have any thoughts on this? How difficult is it to re-locate
>the unit? Any comments would be appreciated.

------------------------------

From: crash@merl.com
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:57:38 -0500
Subject: Discovery Swimming

During the recent spate of very wet weather up here in New 
England, I had the priveledge of inadvertently finding out 
just how fast a Disco can go in a foot of water.

Rt 62 in Reading was flooded about a foot deep in one of the dips
(about 75 feet long).  It was dead dark, raining like crazy, and
the street lights over the flooded area were out (wonder why, that? :-) )
 
Anyway, in retrospect, poor judgement.  Live and learn.

I hit the lake at about 30 MPH.  WOOOOORRRRHHHSSHHHHHH.  Water all over
the place.  It looked like a fire hydrant was broken off under
each front wheelwell.  Then I couldn't see anything at all- too 
much water out on the other side of the windows.  I flew on instruments
this way for about three seconds till I got out of the puddle.

No problem.  No stalling.  Sally didn't even get skittish on the wheels,
let alone hydroplane.  

[yeah, I thought about hitting the brakes.  I chose not to- I kept
my foot on the gas instead.  Why?  Well, I figured one of two things
had happened and I didn't like either one.

	1- broken water main.  In this storm, who would know?  I 
	   didn't want to drop both front wheels into the crevasse.

	2- sometimes storm surge actually pops the covers off 
	   of manholes up here.  The result is a hole about the
	   size of Jackie Gleason in the roadbed. 

In either case, I'd rather try to go over the hole *fast* with
all wheels rotating straight ahead with power on, to let the
wheels roll _over_ the far edge, rather than hit the brakes, 
maybe skid and get sideways, definitely gauranteeing that the 
wheels won't ride up over the obstruction on the far side 
of the hole.

End result:

	Damage: none.

	Undercarriage: THOUROUGHLY washed.  :-)

	-Bill

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:10:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Rick Grant <rgrant@synapse.net>
Subject: Re: D-110 on blocks.

>If you know border collies, you know they are happiest when they are 
>working/playing hard...just like Land Rovers.  Maybe we should go "rescue" 
>this D-110 or similar ones that aren't being used to their fullest 
>potential.  Cheers

That's about as far as I want to go in parallel linking of the Land Rover
and Border Collie lists.   Go any further and this list would end up with
endless arguments about what constitutes a true Land Rover, what the breed
standard should be, the perfidy of various Land Rover organizations.

I can see it now; the FAQ would contain sentences something like these---
"If you aren't prepared to run your Series Land Rover five miles through a
bog and winch up a hillside once a day you shouldn't own a Land Rover.  Land
Rovers are working vehicles and should not be considered as mere pets or
admired for their looks."

Border Collies and Land Rovers go together so well it's uncanny.  Both are
worth rescuing from poor situations.  If I had the space, 10 square miles of
rough country, I'd happily rescue LR's and BC's and drive myself nuts
exercising both.

                                                                Rick Grant
                                                                '59 SII
                                                                & "Tina"

Ottawa, Canada

                                                        Rick Grant

rgrant@synapse.net
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Nov 95 11:09:44 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Trivia

My guess on the non interchangeable wheels is the Forward Control and the
first few 80"'s were built with galvanised chassis. If I'm wrong on the
wheels, then how 'bout those Judge Dredd things? Those tires certainly
don't look like they'd fit MY Rover.

Dave
72 seriesIII SWB "Green Car" (interchangeable wheels)
      XX        XX
      XX  --->  XX
      XX        XX
                           dbobeck@ushmm.org
     /|\         |
      |         \|/

      XX        XX
      XX  <---  XX
      XX ______ XX
        [______]---------> "No tread on me" spare(actually on bonnet)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Nov 1995 08:52:18 -0700
From: Erik Nystrom <enystrom@innovusmm.com>
Subject:  Disco Tail Lights

Thanks to those who responded to my previous message!
However, I am wondering if anyone in the UK would know the cost of
the tail lamp units for the Discovery. I would like to refit my 95
Disco, which currently has no amber turn indicator, with the
European/1996 Discovery style. The Disco's I've seen in Europe and
the '96's here in the US have amber turn indicators in the rear lamp.
Thanks!
Erik
95 Discovery v8i
enystrom@innovusmm.com
Salt Lake City, UT, USA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 95 10:41:26 EST
From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins)
Subject: Re: Discovery Swimming/wading/winching & waveing hello

>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>During the recent spate of very wet weather up here in New
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>        Undercarriage: THOUROUGHLY washed.  :-)
>        -Bill

I performed a similar feat here in PA, USA.  I splashed so much water that
I made a wave that went over a few lanes of traffic, completey inundating a
BMW, which made me chortle with glee.  My wife thought I was nuts, and
maybe I am, but the point of my reply is that I managed to somehow wash the
transmission over heat switch into a malfunction, as well as remove one of
the quarter panel marke lights from it's socket.  If you have a mnual
xmissino you might need to check for water in your case methinks.

Regarding a recent post on waving, I wave to any other Rover I see, but
hey, my wife already thinks I'm nuts so...

I still would like to see some email from someone who actually has fitted a
disco with a winch btw.  :-/

And along the lines of swimming, is there wading gear for the disco?

Tom Des Jardins
FORE Systems (412)635-3374  FAX 635-3333 url http://www.fore.com
Please note new phone numbers.  I am now at the McKnight road facility.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 11:30:25 -0500
From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg)
Subject: Re: Delayed Sighting

>"Superbowel," Jeff???  Not a football fan, eh?

You don't know the *real embarrassing* part.  I'd actually had spelled it
right at first, then "corrected myself" to get the above.

To answer the question, "Go Bears!"

Rgds

JAB

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:41:27 -0800
From: russ burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Discovery Swimming

Word of caution,
if the water is up to the radiator level, and you are moving at 30 MPH
you will probably push the rad into the fan blades. I can see your
point about a deep crevasse, but I think that 30mph is too slow.
At thirty mph hitting a crevasses will only blow out both front tires.

at 50 MPH you could rip off the whole axle and still have enough momentum
to reach the dry side.

Now at 75+ mph you could just hydroplane over any hole.

Personal, I like to travel slow, and if the wheels drop off into  hole
I just get out, stand in the water, use the hi-lift jack and put the
rover back on firm ground. Very boring, I will admit.

Good luck
Russ Burns

At 09:57 AM 11/3/95 -0500, you wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 52 lines)]
>	Undercarriage: THOUROUGHLY washed.  :-)
>	-Bill

------------------------------

From: Treit Le <Treit_Le@apprise.com>
Date:  3 Nov 95 10:26:53 
Subject: Picking up new RR

So the day has come and I am finally going to pick up my new '95 Classic 
(Vatican White) tomorrow. It is a demo that was used in the Pope's entourage 
when he came to the US recently. I picking it up at the Glen Cove Land Rover 
Centre which has some sort of obstacle course. Has anybody been through this 
course? I've never been off-road and don't want to hurt my first new vehicle in 
8 years. Actually, I'm hoping to convince the salesman to let me run it in a 
Disco too, as that was my other choice. Do running boards lower ground 
clearance very much or does the RR still have 8.1" of clearance? And why do 
lamp guards cost so much (didn't get them)? Next weekend, I expect to actually 
go offroad when surf-fishing at Montauk. There is a well packed slightly steep 
dirt trail (big potholes) down to the beach which is sand and baseball sized 
rocks and then a soft sand track. How do RR's like saltwater anyway? And what 
sort of air-compresser is recommended. I need to lower the tire pressure on the 
beach and then raise it before getting on the road.

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date:  3 Nov 95 11:49:02 EST
Subject: Disco lights.....

Am I alone, or is anyone else irretrievably linking this discussion to mirrored 
balls hung in dance clubs and white polyester suits?

    aj"Stayin' alive"r

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Fri, 3 Nov 1995 16:45:02 +0000
Subject:       Re: trivia

>First, every Land Rover model's wheels are interchangeable except for one
>model - which one?
The 101 has 6-stud wheels, whilst the rest have 5 studs.

BTW.... The hubs of the leaf-sprung vehicles are slightly different to
those of their coil sprung siblings -- so the wheels don't fit without a
fight. 

... with a wooden spoon ...

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Nov 1995 09:06:22 +0000
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered??

 Tom Rowe <trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu> writes:

>If Dixon hasn't actually filed for copy right then he doesn't have it
>even if he does put such a notice on the pages.

 It makes no difference if it's filed or not for 'Version 3.0'.  The
 content of the work and the copyright of each individual contribution
 can be traced and attributed seperatly if need be, and those contributors
 hold the eventual copyright unless formally forfeited to other individuals,
 the Land Rover community, or to the public domain.

>Have you talked to Dixon on exactly what was behind his copy right 
>notice for the web page?

 I'm assuming his 'intentions' are good, after all, he is contributing to
 the work and leaving it accessible for the Land Rover community.  The
 copyright probably serves to prevent some private individual or company
 from publishing it and keeping the $$.  However, the work itself is the
 product of several individuals, not just Dixon Kenner, and their effort
 was donated in the spirit of common benefit and enjoyment.  The work does
 not belong to Dixon Kenner, although he may justly claim parts of it, and
 the work certainly has nothing to do with the OVLR.

 I also may assume that the pages were constructed hurriedly, that this is
 a temporary form of the RoverWeb, and these abberations will be corrected.

                          _____
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                    Rumpole of the Bay
 cs@crl.com               [________]                           '65 IIA 88
 __________._______.____.._(o)__.(o)_______...o^^^^^^======o..___________
 ________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover Connection 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

    

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 12:14:30 -0500 (EST)
From: "Francis J. Twarog" <ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: Stuff

Well - some interesting reading these days on the digest...  I'm a little 
bit surprised at the outlash against the 110 on blocks!  It is great in 
theory to say that Land Rovers should be trashed about and battle 
scarred, but the reality is that when you own a truck like the 110, you 
just don't do that on a daily basis!!  Remember, the owner (who I know 
through the BSROA) is not your typical fleeting-whim type.  He was the 
very first customer on the Land-Rovers-return-to-the-US bandwagon!!  I 
certainly can't blame him for trying to baby the truck, since he *does* 
have a few series Rovers that (believe it or not) are not on blocks - 
actually, I think he has even scratched, no, dented them!!!!
	Anyway, I went out yesterday on some logging roads/old trails 
with my '70 88" and a guy with a Def 90.  Here's the skinny - in all of 
the trail rides I've done this year, my series car has never gotten 
stuck, yet every one of the Def 90s (including mine) tend to find there 
way deeply rutted etc.  This is not an issue of over-revving etc., nor is 
there anything special about my series truck (BFG Mud Terrains only - no 
lockers etc.).  I tend to find that when I let the 90 owners drive my 
truck, they can't belive how much of a "climbing monster" it is!  
Everyone comments on the manual steering - and how they feel more 
"connected" to the trail.  Thus, (and please tell me personal 
experiences otherwise ) I truly believe that the ultimate off-roader is 
still the old leaf-sprung Landie!  
	Well the answers to yesterday's trivia were pretty easy - the 101 
FC (also referred to appropriately as the 6 stud) is the only Land Rover 
whose wheels are not interchangeable! - and the only LRs with factory 
galvanised frames were the very early series ones (the prototype LR 
actually had a wooden frame - I suppose when they got the idea to make 
them into fire tenders, they scrapped that spec.).  
	Today's trivia... what is a Monteverdi? (I think I gave this one 
away a couple of weeks ago when I wrote about them, but we'll see who 
remembers).

Frank Twarog
Burlington, VT
Fond memories of days past when 90s and Classics filled the lots... 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 12:16:28 -0500
From: Randy Parker <rparker@roving.com>
Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered??

I have no intention of jumping into the "pilfering" debate.  However, I will
point out (as you probably well know) that everything on the Internet is
rarely official, frequently borrowed, changes hourly, and is often worth
what you pay for it.

Additionally, the nature of the net is to not necessarily have an official
primary web site for topics, but instead to be a collection of sites with
relevant (and often competing) information.   Most users would be best
served by using a Lycos or Yahoo-type search site as their virtual
"RoverWeb" starting page.  Then any individual sites can simply register
their pages with these "catalogues" in order to be listed.

For an example of such (i.e. links to a number of Rover pages), see       
      
        http://www.yahoo.com/Recreation/Automobiles/Land_Rover/

--RP
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Randy Parker, Roving Software Inc., Brookline, MA, USA
   Email:  rparker@roving.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: crash@merl.com
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 12:17:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Discovery Swimming

Yep.

I admit to "lack-o-good-judgement" on that one.  But like I said,
it looked like pavement till I hit it.  No time to add or lose 
velocity- it was strictly a "come as you are" affair. 

I wouldn't have done it on a dare.  I like my car too much for that.

And (my guess) was that the water was only up to the bumper, maybe not
even that, because only a little went _straight_ _up_ in front, most
came out at the sides where the wheels were displacing it.  

Now, if I *knew* it was there, I woulda either avoided it, or walked it
first with a probe pole in front to find out if there was a crevasse
or other deep hole.  (also to find out if it was under 20 inches deep- the
magic depth number for a factory-spec V8i petrol Discovery)

	-Bill

------------------------------

From: sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 95 17:22:48 GMT
Subject: I'm off

Hi all, I've just unsubscribed for a while as I am leaving the country on
business.  You will have to manage without me!  Unless I can get enough
access to a terminal in Germany...

Happy Land-Rovering, Steve

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 95 12:33:19 EST
From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben)
Subject: Isuzu/Landie contest

I understand from the Off-road list that 2 Isuzus and a Disco went out
somewhere in US NW, as a results of one of the Isuzu owners mouthing off
to this list.
I missed the report on the Off-road list, but I heard that it was a good
one.  Nothing about it on this list? Uh-oh... bad news?  Or did I miss
a report here also?

Jan

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Discovery Swimming
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:39:01 -0800

Here's some other thoughts for what to replace those plastic trim pieces below 
the doors and between the tires on a Discovery:
	a) diamond plate rock sliders - or -
	b) Hi-lift jack "hard-points" (for jacking out of a hole)
	c) inflatable pontoons [like helicopters have] (for "floating" over the hole)
 	d) retractable wings [a la "Chitty-Chitty Bang Bang"] (for just flying over 
the hole)

----------
From: 	russ burns[SMTP:burns@cisco.com]
Sent: 	Friday, November 03, 1995 8:41 AM
Subject: 	Re: Discovery Swimming

Word of caution,
	
	<words of caution removed, you're on your own>

    _____
   /|__|_\___                            Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

N7UMU

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:08:40 -0800
From: russ burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: D-90 one year old.

Well, the D-90 hit its one year mark. 38000 miles and still rolling.
At the moment it is at the dealers for some warranty repairs.
The starter is acting up again. (didn't like some of those in gear starts)
The hood cable works great, but I have to pull the cable 1 foot. It is also
irritating
when it dangles.
The great LUCAS electrics are at work. It seems that when I hit a bump the lucas
computer (oxymoron) turns on the check engine light, and or set the engine
to LUCAS mode where it will barely run, or kill the engine all together. To
cure it I just have to let the main relay disingage. This can be real
interesting
on the freeway at rush hour. At 70 MPH you shut off the igniton, wait 12 seconds
, turn the ignition back on and proceed merrily down the pike to the next bump.
The real guts comes at nite, 70mph, no power, no headlights.....

I have also gotten the noise down, approaching disco level.
first I dynomated the entire interior, then I found a 1" thick rubber  mat
for the rear cargo area. Applied a rubbermaid hardtop, and lined it with
1/2" closed cell sleeping pads.

The latest endevor was to drill some vent holes under the passenger seat for
"flow thu ventilation". Since I have a rear heater also installed there, I have
a 3" hole in access plate. This helps keep the windows sealed, as there is a
lot of positive pressure in a D-90 at 70 MPH.

To cure a real annoying whisle, I traced the probem to the bottom seal on
the passengers window. A applicaton of some silicon grease put a stop to that.

I also tore apart the dash, and installed a 8" wide strip of porous foam
behind the 
vents. This not only quiets down the wind noise, but should act as a dust
filter.

My final solution was to order a 90 SW and start over.......

Russ Burns
91 R-Rover
94 D-90

 

------------------------------

From: "David McKain" <MCKAIN@cemr.wvu.edu>
Date:          Fri, 3 Nov 1995 13:23:19 EDT
Subject:       Information Superhighway

Concerning the discussion of the Rover Web:

For all its worth, they should call it the disinformation highway. 
Anyone with a server connection can download a web page and put it up 
on their machine, but change the names of the innocent. This will, 
guaranteed, become a big problem across the WWW.

FLASH - Front page of both city and college parpers with a big 
picture of a FJ Landcruiser on its side in a ditch, noone was hurt 
but, alas, the LC was burned to a crisp. 

David McKain
1966 SIIa Petrol
mckain@cemr.wvu.edu
(304) 599-0120
Morgantown, WV
USA                     

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 13:44:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered??

On Fri, 3 Nov 1995, Michael Carradine wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> On Wed, 4 Oct 1995, Nick Baggarly asked Ray Harder about the status of the
> RoverWeb page and volunteers his help:

	You certainly have managed to acquire a mass of private 
	correspondence and excerpt portions out of context.  While
	Nick's message was dated the 4th of October, I must admit I didn't
	get my copy until the 30th of October.  But you really don't
	care about that anyway...

>         R> i could pass it along to someone else (thats how i acquired it --
>   --->  R> greg hiner - hiner@mail.utexas.edu did almost all the work).

	As I mentioned in my wee announcement, Greg took the FAQ, and built
	the RoverWeb around it.  When Greg gave up the site, the new home
	was going to be in one of two sites.  EMR.CA or MISSOURI.EDU.  I
	suddnely found myself behind a firewall, and though could solve that
	particular problem, told Greg that I have no qualms about Ray
	taking over.  

 	The RoverWeb is the work of many people,  Where people have written
	parts, they get the credit & like the OVLR newsletter, hold any
	copywrite.

>         M> the RoverWeb and-or LROA/NA, however, I am willing to help out (in
>         M> my limited way) to update and or revise the RoverWeb site.  I think
>         M> it's one of the premier Land-Rover sites, along with Lloyd Allisons
>         M> Australian page, and should be kept current.

	Then volunteer to help Mr. Carridine, rather than trying to destroy.  
	It is being updated constantly.

> 	D> Nope.  Not a chance that it will have anything to do with LROA.
> 	D> LROA is listed in the clubs section, though information on
> 	D> it will need to be updated.  That is as close as it gets to
> 	D> LROA.  RoverWeb will however co-exist with another website
> 	D> (not yet open) which relates closely to the RoverWeb.

	Cute, got some of my mail.  You want me to post some interesting 
	bits about your proposed LROA RoverWeb where you were going to
	use it as a propoganda tool for LROA?  My "notta chance" came after
	seeing that one.  Actually, since you seem to have all the 
	correspondence, why don't you post the messages with LROA's
	intentions...

>   --->  B> Also, while preparing the OVLR site, it came to our attention that
>         B> the RoverWeb needed a new home.  As of right now the new address of

	OVLR site has been in the making for months.  You don't think that
	OVLR should have a site in your backyard, or is it you'd rather
	not see an OVLR site in the first place?

> And on Wed, 1 Nov 1995 Dixon Kenner writes:
>   --->  D> Many years ago TerriAnn wrote a short 12k file about the

	Well, maybe between 12 and 13k, but I rounded.  Betcha didn't
	know TerriAnn's involvement before you read that...

>   --->  D> (115k) version and wrote the first RoverWeb for Land Rover

	This was approx. the third version.  Still no contributions of
	info or text from you at this point.

	If you want the current status, of the approx. 270k size, I wrote
	abot 250k of it, Ted Rose is in for some, TerriAnn's portion
	as about 1k, Greg Hiner did a bit, the original UK clubs list was
	from Ian Stuart, Ben Smith has done some too.  I think I see
	all these names down in the credits list.  Don't see yours anywhere.

>   --->  D> Ray's efforts have created the best source of Land Rover information
>         D> on the InterNet.  The RoverWeb even managed to get publicised

	You don't agree?  

>         D> available to maintain the site and it became necessary to move
>   ?-->  D> the site yet again.  I and Ben Smith have volunteered to take over

	You obviously have seen some of the correspondence.  It was going
	to be moved...

	Now onto your message...

>  Well, Nick, we've been snubbed, finessed, and fricasseed with only a wimper.

	Snubbed?  After some of the stuff I have seen coming out of 
	California this may be true.  Nothing like the drubbing you're
	trying to hand out though...

	Finessed?  Nope.  Asked first & Ray was agreeable.  This implies
	a done deal with backroom dealings to take it from you.  Nope...
	Finessed also implies you had some right to it.

	Fricasseed?  If you say so.  I don't know how you feel.

>  It was you that started the original inquiry into the dormant status of the
>  RoverWeb pages on or prior to October 4, 1995, contrary to Ben Smith's last
>  statement that "your request came in at the last minute" and therefore too
>  late since "the plans to open the RoverWeb site were made 2 or 3 weeks ago".

	Sorry mate, again, your use of history is incorrect.  Since you want
	to throw grenades, all of this predates Nick's message.

>  for the ROVERWEB www site, but it is my vague reading that it is being
>  incorporated into the LROA umbrella", apparently his obvious first choice.
>  Then Dixon Kenner retorts, "Nope.  Not a chance that it will have anything to
>  do with LROA."

	The site, a nice large .TAR file had been transferred before 
	these messages.  LROA a first choice?  Again, you are wrong.
	"Not a chance"?  Messages from LROA folks regarding turning the 
	RoverWeb  into a sole LROA site, for membership drives, propoganda
	etc.?  You betcha that I wasn't pleased with the idea of having
	some people who have undemocratically pulled off a coup in LROA 
	go down yet another road for agrandisement.

>  In the mean time, Dixon Kenner and Ben Smith dismantled the RoverWeb and took
>  it's centerpiece, the FAQ pages, and built the OVLR page around it.  Now the
>  RoverWeb is left as a pittance of Web page, with a only couple of gems
>  remaining.

	Look mate.  I wrote the FAQ.  It was built into the OVLR pages before
	the RoverWeb arrived.  The RoverWeb exists beside the OVLR 
	pages.  Sure they are linked, but then again the site links to
	other club pages, including your own LROA site that Roger has
	written.  (opps!  Roger supported Brad, the loser in this 
	coup!  No wonder that you are in the process of pulling the site
	from him...)   BTW, I've offered space on the site to BSROA and 
	ROAV since they don't have a web site.  Unfair I guess, considering
	you had no plans to do the same.  

	RoverWeb will be expanded to deal with a lot of LR activities where
	OVLR has nothing to do with thiose activities.  Seems you don't like
	this idea, you planning to make it a LROA centrepiece without the 
	decency to seperate out your stuff.

>  So how is it that Dixon Kenner proclaims himself 'Editor' of the RoverWeb Land
>  Rover FAQ pages, and copyrights the material under his own name?  

	So Ben wrote editor...  You angling for the same credit?  You have
	not been one of the leading lights here supplying material.  Those
	that have (Greg Hiner, Ted Rose et al) get mentioned.  If you
	submitted something, you would get mention too.  Editor is generally
	defined is a different fashion to how you imply...

	Copywrite?  Everything in your country has to carry some sort
	of copywrite.  Some litigious chap would be sure to do something.
	Of course, the rest of the world respects the Berne Convention.
	We could always just mention that one...  I don't see the royalty
	requests flowing forth, I see acknowledgements to who did what.
	I fail to see how I am suddenly stealing something...

>  And how is it that the pages are now emblazoned with the Land-Rover 
>  logo (itself pilfered) and declared Ottawa Valley Land Rover Club, 
>  Inc. (OVLR) Web pages?  

	The LR logo is stated to be being used without permission.  There is
	no commercial aspect here, nor is the logo being used 
	disrespectively.   What is your point?  No one can use their
	logo except you?

	Oh yeah, OVLR is an incorporated body, with a charter/constitution,
	bylaws, federal incorporation papers, auditing, elections, and
	a host of other things, noticibly absent in the LROA.  You imply
	that this is bad?

>  Not to say that Dixon Kenner did not contribute to the FAQ pages and 
>  may have a say as to their status, 

	This is exactly what you are saying.

>  undertakings.  But wasn't it TerriAnn Wakemann who wrote the first 12K FAQ,
>  that was expanded to 99K by Dixon Kenner?  

	TerriAnn's 12 file was not a FAQ.  I used portions of it, of 
	which less than a 1k or so are still in it.  Please note, I do give
	credit where crdit is due.  You like to imply otherwise.  Go read
	the original file sometime.  Go read the various versions of
	the FAQ.  Look and compare.  Aside, you only know this because
	I actually wrote it.  

>  Missouri?  So who authorized Dixon Kenner to copyright the RoverWeb FAQ pages,
>  which if anything were in the public domain in the US, and absorb them into the
>  OVLR in Canada?  And, how is it that a US Government site in California is a
>  server for an Ottawa, Canada WWW site anyway??

	You are a real pain aren't you.  Gotta keep firing away.  You were
	planning far worse.  As per where stuff sits on the net, it really
	doesn't matter one bit where files are located.  You're just
	pissed off the site sits in your backyard.  You even display
	an anti-Canadian attitude by implying that a Canadian can't use
	an American site for anything.  Grow up...

>  invertabrae behaviour.  I suggest to Dixon Kenner and OVLR that the FAQ pages
>  be returned to the public domain and remain in the US (where they are anyway)
>  as part of the RoverWeb!  

	If there is an invertabrate here it is you...  The FAQ is free to 
	be used by anyone.  Consider there to be a copyleft to be on the 
	pages, though this is probably repungent to your ideals.  

	"remain in the US"?  How nationalistic!  By what right do you now
	own Land Rover?  You sound like you are right out of the novel 
	"The Ugly American", tromping over all other non-Americans because
	they just are not as good as you are.  Thankfully, very few think
	like you.

>  and "To have a quality site, one person would own the master page and solicit
>  completed additions from other people contributing to the work."  I take this
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>  linked appropriately in the RoverWeb, which in itself is the centerpiece of the
>  entire Land Rover community 

	For once you got some part right.  

	Thanks for your effort at muddying the water, acting like a spoiled
	child that didn't get a bauble to play with, 

	Take a valium mate...

	Regards,

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:56:44 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Who Waves? (Was Use/abuse etc.)

On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, John Y. Liu wrote:

> RR and Disco's never ever wave at my SIIA.  Defender 90's wave only
> occasionally.  Defender 110's usually wave.  Other Series usually stop and
> get out.

I find RR owners sometimes wave back, Disco owners never do, and 
Defenders and Series owners hardly ever do.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 11:38:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.) <grea@net.gov.bc.ca>
Subject: Subject: Re: Who Waves?  (Was Use/abuse etc.)

>RR and Disco's never ever wave at my SIIA.  Defender 90's wave only
>occasionally.  Defender 110's usually wave

There are probably over 1000 Discos in this town and the only acknoledgement
I have recieved was a dirty look from one. As for the waving, I suspect	
it's difficult to drive, and wave with a cellular phone in your hand. 

>  Other Series usually stop and get out.

And the first thing they say is, " So, where do you get your parts?"

g.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:52:06 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Tilt Tests

On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote:

> <begin excerpt about Range Rover testing>
> Tilt Test
> The objective of the test is to ensure that engines can operate in the
> most extreme off-road conditions and that oil supply and pressure
> operates correctly at extreme angles.

> Is this testing common to other LR's (e.g. D-90 & Disco)?

No, it's only for true off-road models like Range Rovers -- not the other
models which are mainly used for supermarket shopping and macho looks!! 

Cheers

John Brabyn
89 RR and warped sense of humor

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date:  3 Nov 95 15:18:12 EST
Subject: Re: Tilt Tests

>> Is this testing common to other LR's (e.g. D-90 & Disco)?

At which point bait is thrown out by:
>John Brabyn
>89 RR and warped sense of humor

>No, it's only for true off-road models like Range Rovers -- not the other
>models which are mainly used for supermarket shopping and macho looks!! 

Or those built for running sawmills and grain threshers.....8*)

  aj"Series IIa road locomotive..."r

 

------------------------------

From: Treit Le <Treit_Le@apprise.com>
Date:  3 Nov 95 14:53:45 
Subject: You know you want this!!!

For barter: (1) Very rare (but not quite as rare as the actual animal or 
vehicle:) poster from the recent 4-Wheeler featuring a green & white hardtop 
D90 about to be ventilated by a charging Rhinocerous and (1) Blank TDK VHS 
tape. The D90 does NOT have rhino bars, BTW.

Wanted: An illicit (?) copy of the '95 Camel Trophy from the recent ESPN-2 
showing on VHS. A clue as to where I can buy lamp guards and a black rubber 
load-space protector ('95 Classic) for significantly less than LR dealers 
charge.

I'm in New York City. International shipment is unrealistic. Sorry. Shipping to 
be eaten by both parties.

Reason for disposal: I hate folded posters.

Incentive: If you can't buy a D90 in the next month, you might as well get the 
poster. Get it before I spill coffee on it.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered?? 
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 1995 12:42:37 -0800
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Mike Carradine wrote:

	First off I don't off hand the exact date the the moving of the
RoverWeb started.  (I happened to nuke all of that mail because I didn't
think that I would have to refer that to again.)   Thinking about it, I think
the initial contact between Dixon and  and Ray Harder was before the 
mendo_recce desert trip.   Which would put the communications before 6 October
1995.   Someone else can date the initial post of Ray to the main LRO list.
	From my point of view, the history of everything goes like this:
July 1995: I came back from my trip back east and wrote some Web pages to 
           post some pictures from the OVLR birthday party for Dixon and a few
           others.
           Dixon and I discuss making an OVLR page and updating the FAQ for it.
           We agree to do it and work starts.
Mid September: Dixon and I agree to open the OVLR page on 1 November.
Late Sept/Early Oct:  Ray posts to the list asking for a new Home for the
           Roverweb.
           That day Dixon asks me if it is a good idea to volunteer for it.  I
           say yes.  (When Greg Hiner gave up the RoverWeb, it was going to 
           either Dixon or Ray, but Dixon suddenly found himself behind a 
           firewall, so Ray got it).   Dixon contacted Ray
5 October: Message dated 15:36 CDT from Ray to Dixon: Ray agreed to give the 
           RoverWeb to us.  "i will pass on the flame to you."  I was busy 
           getting ready for the desert trip so I told Ray that I would ftp 
           the RoverWeb tar file the next week.
13 October: My files say that I ftp'd the tar file at 12:55 PDT.
            I untar'ed the file and verified that the binaries were intact.
17 October: I get an email from Ray addressed to  Mike, Dixon and myself.
            Apparantly Ray thought that I would open the RoverWeb up 
            immediately.  That was this message:
            R> Mike, Dixon, Ben:  It is not clear what arrangements are being
            R> made for the ROVERWEB www site, but it is my vague reading that
            R> it is being incorporated into the LROA umbrella.
            Now Ray may have been confused by the fact that he had been 
            (unbeknownst to me) contacted by LROA, and assumed that LROA is
            mostly a California Club (the largest block of members is from CA
            at some 31% I think) and that since I live in California that my
            supporting the RoverWeb was related to LROA.  
18 October: Dixon wrote back telling Ray that the new site is not related to
            LROA or any club, thought it will be next to another new Land Rover
            page.  And that we were planning on opening both of them on 1 
            November.

            Dixon Kenner writes on Wed, 18 Oct 1995:
            D> Nope.  Not a chance that it will have anything to do with LROA.
            D> LROA is listed in the clubs section, though information on
            D> it will need to be updated.  That is as close as it gets to
            D> LROA.  RoverWeb will however co-exist with another website
            D> (not yet open) which relates closely to the RoverWeb.

            At this point Ray seemed happy with all of this.  It would have 
            been trivial to let someone else have the site if Ray had changed
            his mind.
30 October: It came to my attention that LROA (via Nick Baggerly was interested
            in the RoverWeb (hence my comment of LROA's last minute 
            involvement (we were opening 2 days later))
1 November: at about 3am PST I took the access restrictions off of the pages
            and posted.

>From the Dixon's post:
          D> Later, Greg Hiner took this version of the FAQ, and a longer
    --->  D> (115k) version and wrote the first RoverWeb for Land Rover
          D> owners on the Internet.  

	Dixon also wrote that version of the FAQ.

> Nick C. Baggarly wrote on Wed, Nov  1:
>         N> We heard a rumor that the RoverWeb needed a new home so on
>         N> behalf of LROA, I sent Greg Hiner and Ray Harder some email
>         N> on Monday asking if LROA could adopt it as the "LROA RoverWeb."

	Which would have been on 30 October, hence long after the move was
agreed upon.  

Then Michael Carradine pressed his attack:

>  Well, Nick, we've been snubbed, finessed, and fricasseed with only a wimper.
>  It was you that started the original inquiry into the dormant status of the
>  RoverWeb pages on or prior to October 4, 1995, contrary to Ben Smith's last
>  statement that "your request came in at the last minute" 

	Well maybe.  I do recall getting a forwarded a message recently (also
deleted) that outlined how LROA was going to use the RoverWeb as a propaganda
tool for LRNA.  Ray agreed to give it to Dixon (and me) as of 5 October.  It's
a little hard to snub you when I don't see private email between to people.

>  As to Ben Smith's statement about the RoverWeb needing a new home, "Ray post
>  it on the main list 3 or 4 weeks ago.  A day later he agreed to give it over
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>  Then Dixon Kenner retorts, "Nope.  Not a chance that it will have anything t
>  do with LROA."

	A simple miscommunication between Dixon and Ray asto when we would
open.  Ray some equated that since I had the machine to put it on, and since
I was on California that this was related to LROA.  Dixon corrected this
misunderstanding.

>  In the mean time, Dixon Kenner and Ben Smith dismantled the RoverWeb and too
>  it's centerpiece, the FAQ pages, and built the OVLR page around it.  Now the
>  RoverWeb is left as a pittance of Web page, with a only couple of gems
>  remaining.

	The only things that were "removed" were things that were written
(for the most part) by OVLR members.  We have plans to expand on both sites
putting information from OVLR members on one site and everything else on the
RoverWeb.   The plan for the OVLR page to have the new FAQ was decided upon
by the editor of the FAQ last July.   As for being "removed" the documents are
on the same site and are a link away from each other.   (In case you didn't
notice the other thing that was moved was the writings of Mike Rooth.  Mike
is an OVLR member and the new additions were posted either exclusivly to 
a small group of OVLR members or the main list.  They were used with his 
permission).

>  So how is it that Dixon Kenner proclaims himself 'Editor' of the RoverWeb 
>  Land Rover FAQ pages, and copyrights the material under his own name?  

	The RoverWeb used the FAQ with Dixon's permission.  Dixon has been the
editor since he expanded it from 12k in early 1993.  Oh, and just to be clear,
I took an ASCII file from Dixon and converted it to html, I did not look at
how it was layed out in the RoverWeb (html wise), and did not use a line of
code from the Roverweb. What you see is html in my style.  As for authorship,
let's take a look [size,author]:

Table of Contents [4.0kb, me]
Introduction, Credits, & History  [2.4kb, Dixon with mods by me]
    Part I: Basics 
        What is a Land Rover?   [2.2kb, Dixon]
        Which Land Rovers were imported to North America?  [9.3kb Dixon, with a
                                                            little by me]
        Things to look for when shopping for a Land Rover  [17.4kb Dixon]
        General Maintenance (and Common Parts list [Land Rover and Aftermarket])
                              [9.8kb, Ted Rose, OVLR President] 
        Tuning the 2.25l Engine  [5.3kb, Dixon]

    Part II: Identification 
        How Do I Identify different types of Land Rover?  
                  [34.8 kb, Dixon stared it.  I added all the non Series info]

    Part III: Details  [23.6kb, all by me]
        Major Events in Land Rover History 
        North American Sales
        Yearly Land Rover Production
        Production and Dimensions by model 

    Part IV: Specifications 
        Engines & Gearboxes [12.4kb, Dixon]
        Specifications      [4.7kb, Dixon]
        Chassis numbering   [63.5kb, Dixon with SIII numbers and VIN info by me]

    Part V: Information 
        Clubs [40.9kb, origionally by Ian Stuart, I rewrote it from origion
                     sources and contacts from scratch and correspondance]
        Parts [6.7kb, origionally by Greg Hiner, updated by me]
        Magazines & publications [11.6 kb, Dixon, heavily updated by me]

    Part VI: Other 
        The Camel Trophy             [4.6kb, me]
        Famous owners of Land Rovers [4.2kb, compiled as facts are posted on the
                                           main list by me]
        Anti-Land Rover FAQ (or Silly Answers for Silly Questions)
                   [16kb, as posted on the main list and other sources.  Authors
                         are noted.  If T.F Mills, Pierce Reid, Sanna@aol.com 
                         or Roger Sinasohn want their contributions removed, 
                         they should email me.  I have permission from the 
                         other authors.]

Total:  273kb

So Dixon is either the main or joint author of 161.2 kb (or 59%)
I am main author of 69.1 kb (or 25%)
OVLR member written stake is 240.1kb (or 88%) 

	I'd say that give's Dixon and and especially both of us say in the 
matter of what happens with the FAQ.

Under every copywrite discussion regarding the Internet and posts, it seems
that the origional poster retains copywrite for the everything even if they
do not expressly say it.  As editor Dixon has copyright on the whole of the
FAQ, and the parts are copyright to the origional authors.    I suppose in the
introduction we should give premission to distribute the FAQ provided the
authors/editor are credited.  I'll have to discuss this with Dixon.

>  And how is it
>  that the pages are now emblazoned with the Land-Rover logo (itself pilfered)
>  and declared Ottawa Valley Land Rover Club, Inc. (OVLR) Web pages?  

	OVLR, Inc is an incorporated body under the laws of Canada.  It has
a set of bylaws stating the purpose of the club, what the monies are to be
used for, the periodocity of elections, and who can vote.  I can't say the
same is true for LROA.   The OVLR web site was written by OVLR members for
OVLR and the world.  This is mentioned on every page so that if someone puts 
in a link to just one page, the name of the site is know.  This is a very 
common with web pages.   And yes it is mentioned that the LR logo is used 
without  permission.  (Though it is not exactly the same as the LR logo, the 
waters might be muddied)  If I ever get an official contact from Land Rover 
asking for the logo to be removed, I will happily remove it and add something 
else.  I see it as the Logo being free advertising for Rover, but they might 
differ. I have other ideas for a background logo that I'm working on.

>  But wasn't it TerriAnn Wakemann who wrote the first 12K FAQ,
>  that was expanded to 99K by Dixon Kenner?  And wasn't it Greg Hiner who took
>  this small FAQ, AND a longer 115k version, and wrote the first RoverWeb putt
>  it at a site at the Univerity of Texas?  As Ray Harder recalls, "Greg Hiner 
>  almost all the work".  

	And FAQwise I used 0% of the RoverWeb work.  I personally did all of
the FAQ html from scratch.

>  Was it not Ray Harder whose "efforts have created the
>  best source of Land Rover information on the InterNet" at an EDU site in
>  Missouri?  So who authorized Dixon Kenner to copyright the RoverWeb FAQ page
>  which if anything were in the public domain in the US, and absorb them into 
>  the OVLR in Canada?  

	They were not in the public domain because they were not expressly
put there by Dixon.  In 50 years, however, under US laws....

> And, how is it that a US Government site in California is a
> server for an Ottawa, Canada WWW site anyway??

	Ok clarication time:  

 Public Law 98-473, Chapter XXI, Paragraph 1030 states "Whoever knowingly
 accesses a computer without authorization, ... obtains ..., uses, modifies,
 destroys, or discloses ..., or prevents authorized use of (data or a
 computer owned by or operated for) the Government of the United States ...
 shall be punished (by) a fine or imprisonment."  The punishments range up to
 $100,000 and 10 years, depending upon the nature and extent of the violation.

	If the site was a US Goverment machine (where I work) I would 
have to get permission by the base commander to have a public page that was
not part of the mission of this base and/or the US Navy.  The machine's address
then would be a *.mil or *.gov.  

	www.ridgecrest.ca.us (really owens.ridgecrest.ca.us) is part of RidgeNET
which is owned by the Ridgecrest Redevelopment Agency which is tasked with
using California State monies to invest in things that will economically
better the communuty.  RidgeNET's purpose is to bring Internet access to the
citizens of Ridgecrest.  I am a SysAdmin for RidgeNET and also a user.  Users
are allowed to create their own WWweb pages on any topic so long as there are
not selling web pages.  (To do that there is a different charge).  I have done
all of this work for the Web pages on my own time and the service is provided
free of charge.

>  I suggest to Dixon Kenner and OVLR that the FAQ pages
>  be returned to the public domain and remain in the US (where they are anyway
>  as part of the RoverWeb!  

	The FAQ was never put in the public domain and was used by the RoverWeb
by permission of the editor.  Who cares where a web page physically resides
as long as access is free and unrestricted?   And yes the machine that 
contains both the OVLR and RoverWeb pages reside in the California desert.
Your point being?

> As Ray Harder suggested, "feel free to point to it",
> and "To have a quality site, one person would own the master page and solicit
> completed additions from other people contributing to the work."  I take this
> to mean that anyone can, is invited and encouraged to write a portion of a FAQ

	Anyone can.  The only proviso with the FAQ is that Dixon, as editor
has control of the document as a whole.  As for the RoverWeb, I'll add anything
that is submitted to me.

> RoverWeb, which in itself is the centerpiece of 
> entire Land Rover community --not just one or two Yahoo's acting on their own.

	No one Web site is the centerpiece of a world wide unorganized group.
Lloyd Allison in Australia has a great set of pages?  Does that make him
a Yahoo?  Almost every non comercial web page is the organizing work of one or
two "yahoos" on their free time.  I think that the OVLR pages, the RoverWeb and 
Lloyd's pages complement each other.   There are other pages out there and I 
plan to add links to via the Roverweb (and club section of the FAQ) as I 
find them.  It's one of the next things on my list.

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

From: GJevne@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 15:44:30 -0500
Subject: To: Pete   ARB    or    Winch ?

Pete

Here we are, the experience you have been looking for, with your tips and
tricks.
I started out with a 1967 series llA six cylinder and added a winch and then
bought a 
1976  Range Rover, added a winch then later added a rear  then followed with
a front  air locker, I found it  to be beneficial learning what the car can
and can't do without lockers, then when you get your lockers you will be more
experienced and a better driver.  But to answer your question more
specifically  there will be situations that you will get stuck even  with
lockers and you will need your  winch to pull yourself out. 
If you have to choose one or the other you would be better off looking at the
terrain that 
you will be driving on and decide what will be more useful to you.  

Greg Jevne @SAFARI GARD

------------------------------

From: BobandSueB@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 15:55:22 -0500
Subject: automatic choke for series

Alan and Duncan were discussing cold start problem an I answered but didn't
ever see a digest for thursday. So I'm resending this.
Sorry if anybody already saw it and is bothered.

They were saying,.
. So if you truly want a vehicle you can start and leave alone in the
.    driveway for minutes while it warms up, you need something with an
.    automatic choke...which I've never seen for a Series Rover (short of
.    a Chevy V-6 or Rover V-8 conversion!)  It's probably worth pointing
.    out here that warming a vehicle up like that wastes gas, pollutes
.    the environment needlessly, etc.  Half a minute or less of warmup
.    and attentive adjustment of the choke as the vehicle warms up while
.    you drive it down the road is the "best" approach.

HI Alan and Duncan ,
If you want an automatic choke on a series L/R, you can do it with a weber
two barrel.
The usual choice is a 32/36 DGV.
If you use a 32/36 DGAV instead, you get an electric choke that only needs a
wire from the ignition,,(12 V when key is on)
It's  possible that you can find a one barrel with the same feature to use 
instead of the< ICH34> or whatever it is.

Bob Bernard

------------------------------

From: GJevne@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 15:57:12 -0500
Subject: Erik:  Safari Gard  Tail light tip

Erik,

I have done alot of playing around with the Discovery tail lights.  We have
found that
 you can modify the lights like (David Brown) said, but the fun part will be
finding the light socket.  We have be unable to find the part , however,  we
are able to import the European tail lights. Certain years you will have to
modify the wiring. The late 95 model will not have to be rewired.  If you
have any questions feel free to  E-Mail or call me and I would be glad to
help.        Greg Jevne @ SAFARI GARD

                                                                (909)698-6114
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 16:45:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered??

On Fri, 3 Nov 1995, Michael Carradine wrote:

> >Have you talked to Dixon on exactly what was behind his copy right 
> >notice for the web page?

	Nope...  And I love being blindsided in these things...

>  the work and leaving it accessible for the Land Rover community.  The
>  copyright probably serves to prevent some private individual or company
>  from publishing it and keeping the $$.  

	Yup...

>  product of several individuals, not just Dixon Kenner, and their effort
>  was donated in the spirit of common benefit and enjoyment.  The work does
>  not belong to Dixon Kenner, although he may justly claim parts of it, and
>  the work certainly has nothing to do with the OVLR.

	Remember writing this within the last week?  (amazing what has
	arrived in my mailbox since you forgot to take your valium 
	this morning)

>Oh, oh... The grapevine says that Ray Harder may pass the baton of the
>RoverWeb site, just as he inherited it last year.  This is one of the
>premiere sites on the WWW, next to Lloyd Allison's Australian page. It
>might be of interest to establish a site and take on the material under
>the LROA banner, maybe even have a separate committee assigned to it.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	Not for OVLR, yet it is fine if LROA takes it over eh...  If you
	are going to shuffle arguments from the deck, it will help your
	cause if you don't try to take the cards from the top and bottom
	in different messages...

>  I also may assume that the pages were constructed hurriedly, that this is
>  a temporary form of the RoverWeb, and these abberations will be corrected.

	And, in light of the LROA proposal, you would propose that I change
	them how?  Hmmmm....  Let's see... I see an OVLR site with links
	to the RoverWeb and I see a RoverWeb with links to the FAQ (which
	happens to sit in the OVLR pages).  I also see links from both sites
	to other sites, including the LROA web site at:

	"http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/lroa/lroa01.htm".

	This is the same as your LROA-RoverWeb proposal where all were merged 
	into one big happy site serving as a LROA propoganda tool to gather 
	in new members?

	The RoverWeb is open for anyone to contribute material to.  Read
	up on copywrite & the Berne Convention sometime...  You will see
	that if you write something, you own those words.  No one else does.
	The RoverWeb is there for all clubs to link into...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 18:25:05 -0500
From: nadyne@bccom.com
Subject: Re: Disco lights.....

Only if the polyester suits have contrasting top 
stitching!  By the way, does anyone know how many 
polysters had to die to make each of those suits?

nadyne@bccom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 16:16:04 -0600 (CST)
From: Ray Harder <ccray@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: My RoverWeb $.02 (US)...

A lot of you are in the dark and want to stay there regarding
the RoverWeb location.  A lot of the confusion is my fault
because I don't answer my mail on a timely basis (if at all).

About one year ago, Dixon and I both volunteered to take on the 
RoverWeb from Greg Hiner.  I remember saying "...you do the FAQ 
and I'll do the web..."

When I was reminded that I wasn't investing enough time in the
web page, I agreed that someone else should take it on.  Dixon was
the first to say he wanted it.  I thought that was great, because
he had wanted it earlier.  We made a agreement and arrangements for
the transfer...

Blame me, I was confused and thought there was some connection
between the LROA effort and Dixon's, but there wasn't.  That
confusion generated some of the quoted text.  When I am busy, 
I read some of this LRO email awfully fast and my absorption is 
pretty low...

FWIW, Ben's timing and recollection of the email matches mine.

To me, I just want a place to point and click.  And I want good
content.  I think this is best accomplished by shared effort and
hypertext links to many machines...

Sorry... (and I don't want this to generate another round of email).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Nov 1995 17:24:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Joseph Broach <calas@UTKVX.UTCC.UTK.EDU>
Subject: Weber 1bbl

    I am contemplating finally getting rid of the PO's Holly 2bbl in favor
of a Weber single-throat. I have a few questions for those who have used
this set-up:

* Is there a noticeable performance drop from the stock Zenith?

* The oil-bath air cleaner was removed when the Holly was installed. Does
the Weber use the old air intake?

* Manual or Automatic Choke (hate the auto on the Holly)

Thanks!!
'67 88" IIa

-Regards,
 Joseph Broach  <calas@utkap1.utk.edu> 
 Knoxville, Tennessee

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 14:32:39 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Picking up new RR

Dear Treit,
Great news about your new Range Rover!! Best wishes and hoping you have 
years and years and years of enjoyment with it.
I am sure that you will get more specific replies to your questions about 
your Range Rover.......I offer a more general suggestion: be careful 
about salt water. 
Some of the most rotten cars and trucks that I've ever seen were run in 
salt water (and probably not washed off afterwards). If you do venture 
into salt water, and after trips through any muck, be be sure 
to wash off the chassis and the underside of your Range Rover. Ask other 
owners where mud etc. collects and pay attention to these areas. When I 
go to the coin-operated car wash, I spend 4/5ths of the time spraying the 
chassis, wheel wells, undersurface of body panels, etc.  It is amazing 
how much mud and gravel and sand gets thrown up into hiding places even 
from just riding on dirt roads.

Salt water is especially bad because it accelerates rust and corrosion (I 
have a Defender and salt is said to be *great* for speeding up the 
breakdown of dissimilar metals such as where aluminum body panels are 
joined to steel frame parts (electrolysis).

So......HAVE FUN getting it dirty......but wash-off the undersurface and 
chassis afterward (leave the mud on the hood [bonnet] and fenders [wings] 
if you like)

Best wishes,
David

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 18:28:55 -0600
From: Alan Chamorro <alanch@ibw.com.ni>
Subject: Discovery tire size

I own a LR Discovery 95 with Michelin 4X4 235/70/16 tires. I would like to
install wider tires such as Pirelli Scorpion II size 255/65/16 which have
the same height but are wider by 20 mm. Will they fit on my 95 Discovery?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 14:42:33 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: D-90 one year old.

Dear Russ:
Congratulations on your D-90s first birthday! 38,000 miles? In a year, in 
a Land Rover? That's living!
Let us know what the SW is like and what the '94 thinks about it.
Best wishes,
David

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 95 14:20:29 PST
From: asmith@BayNetworks.COM (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: To: Pete   ARB    or    Winch ?

> From LRO-Owner@uk.stratus.com Fri Nov  3 13:02:51 1995
> From: GJevne@aol.com
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> X-To: lro@land-rover.team.net
> Subject: To: Pete   ARB    or    Winch ?

Greg,

> 1976  Range Rover, added a winch then later added a rear  then followed with
> a front  air locker, I found it  to be beneficial learning what the car can
> and can't do without lockers, then when you get your lockers you will be more
> experienced and a better driver.

Can you explain for us neophytes what an "air" locker is - I assume some
special sort of diff lock, no?

Did you have any suggestions for the thread a few weeks back on replacing 
the 'tween-the-wheel-arches plastic trim steps/strips on new Discos with something
a bit stronger (but more practical than CCBB wings, Bob)?

> Greg Jevne @SAFARI GARD
> a front  air locker, I found it  to be beneficial learning what the car can

Andrew Smith
Palo Alto CA USA
'96 Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 12:26:51 +1100
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: digest

Bill C's policy is that anyone on the `list' who has mailer problems is
quickly put on the `digest' - the list generates ~50 errors 
if, for example, your mailbox gets full, your mailer
professes not to know you etc.  (Can't remember which it was for rc).
I've just been following that policy.
Just send mail to majord' when normal service is resumed
or  unsub the digest and  (re-)subscribe the list

Many machines don't know the `.us' domain - but
the number that do is increasing as the domain's use does.

Have you told yahoo and wwworm about RoverWeb's new URL ?
Some sites still pointed to Greg Hiner quite recently.

Lloyd

------------------------------

Date: 03 Nov 95 20:58:04 EST
From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: trivia

The 101 FC wheels have 6 stud fixing and will not fit the axles of any other
Land Rover
The first 50 80" land rovers had a galvanised chassis

Alan the ser 2 turn indicator was an optional extra, a  timer switch on the
bulkhead , th fore runner to the rubber wheel switch on the steering wheel
centre 
I may even have one somewhere in my parts box.

 Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile.

------------------------------

From: WAHORN@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 21:00:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Door Sills

Well, here it is my first posting to LRO. I currently am undergoing a
restoration or at least my SIIa 109" is and I am having trouble finding new
or used 5" sills. You know the things under the doors ? Anyone have any
laying around ?

                                                 Thanks Ashley Horn

P.S. I am in Jacksonville FL.  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 23:07:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Haslam <haslam@alcor.concordia.ca>
Subject: RR Brake Squeal

A friend has found a total solution to break squeal on a Rover SD1. I 
have it here: it's made by Lucas and the Part Number is SP4077.  Cost for 
sufficient for one axle: Cdn $4.00

It's the aluminum plate (or whatever) someone else was mentioning.

My source: Britsh Motor Spares in La Prairie, Quebec.  Phone: 514 444-2900.

...chris

------------------------------

From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 23:23:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Door Sills

In a message dated 95-11-03 21:17:13 EST, WAHORN@aol.com writes:

>Well, here it is my first posting to LRO. I currently am undergoing a
>restoration or at least my SIIa 109" is and I am having trouble finding new
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>or used 5" sills. You know the things under the doors ? Anyone have any
>laying around ?

Ashley:
You might place a call to Harrell Motor Sales in Waynesville  NC.   Address
and phone number are as follows:

Harrell Motor Sales
1101  N.  Main  St.
Waynesville  NC  28786
(704) 456-8603

Harrells is a small two man operation consisting of Leroy  Harrell, (elderly
now) and Ted, his chief (and only) mechanic, who's been there more than 40
years now.   Harrells was an authorized dealer in the Series days.   Dropped
his dealership mid ' 70's.   Still there servicing and re-selling Series
Rovers.   Old Rover burial ground out behind shop.   May have what you need.
  Tell 'em where the free advertising came from,  maybe they'll give me a
discount next trip there.   ;-)

Or.......I'll sell you a complete set of 5" sills in excellent condition for
a mere $8650.00 and through in the rest of the Rover to go with them.   ;-)

Cordially:
Rick Crider   KD4FXA
Monroe  NC
66  Slla  109"   Hugo         .......for sale.........
73  Slll   88"     Jesse
88  Range  Rover

------------------------------

From: Roy_H._Caldwell@desktop.org (Roy H. Caldwell)
Subject: Parts
Date: 04 Nov 1995 04:45:46 GMT

Leslie,

I was wondering if you are located in the London area?  I am going to be in
London starting Dec. 12.  I was thinking of trying to find a few small parts
that are rather exspensive over on this side of the kingdom.  I am looking
for the door top and side pieces for the canvas tilt.  My friend has all the
other parts and I was thinking maybe they could be had used for a fair price
or new.  no preference as to new or used.  Any suggestions or are you not
even in the London area?

Thanks
Roy - Rovers in the Rockies
--
.........................................................................
WestNet, the Information Service for People with a Passion for this Place
Modem: 406-442-3697 (28,800/8-N-1) Info via Internet: westnet@desktop.org
Sponsored by Desktop Assistance, Inc. Info via Internet: info@desktop.org
.........................................................................

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 00:02:49 -0500
From: Matt Neibaur <matt@jax.gttw.com>
Subject: Discovery Woes

Discovery owners:

Just a little follow up.  My 95 Discovery broke down at 8,000 miles.  It
turned out to be a bad alternator.  They changed it out and the fuse panel
as well.  It seems to be running OK.  The 7,500 mile service cost around
$49.  The other warranty items ran about $300.

The Legend continues,

                              \|/
                            o(0 0)o
                  +----oOO----(_)-----------+
                  |       Matt Neibaur      |
                  |     matt@jax.gttw.com   |
                  +------------------oOO----+
                            |__|__|
                             || ||
                            ooO Ooo

------------------------------

From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 00:59:37 -0500
Subject: Web Roving: Help

All my fellow LRO listees:
I realize this query is not directly Land Rover related,  and I'll be glad to
search elsewhere if someone who is computer literate will point me in the
right direction.

I have Web access through my membership with America Online. I can access AOL
at 9600 or 14400 baud.  Tried to pull up a couple of the Land Rover Web
Pages.    Took more than one minute (at 14400) for my 'home page', which
shows an address of http://www.blue.aol.com, to appear on my screen.  

When I typed in the address for the Australian page, (......monash,tilde,
etc. etc.) it took an agonizing TWELVE MINUTES for it to appear.   When it
did appear the graphics were incomplete and terrible.   I can cut down on the
time by eliminating the graphics feature but that seems half the fun of it.
 Once it did appear the scrolling was again agonizingly slow and choppy.   A
shot of scotch and a valium would be required to tolerate the speed.  ;-)

I have a 486 DX33 machine with only 4 megs of ram.   Is this the problem?
Also,  will I be able to create my own web page if desired?   Will I use my
'home page' address of http://www.blue.aol.com....?

I do feel that I'm missing something not being able to access the Rover Web
items easily.   Any suggestions appreciated.   Others on the list may be
experiencing the same problem.   If you'd rather not tie up the list space
feel free to email me directly.  
Again,  I'll be happy to search else where if I just know where.

Thanks to all for all help, past, present and future.

Cordially:
Rick   <webless>  Crider  KD4FXA
Monroe  NC  USA
<rickcrider@aol.com>
66  Slla  109"   Hugo         ..........for sale..........
73  Slll    88"   Jesse
88 Range  Rover

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Nov 1995 00:48:46 -0600 (CST)
From: wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson)
Subject: 7500 mile service(s)

There's no reason to; all they do is check a bunch of hoses and change the
oil.  The oil change is $20-30; the rest is crap they charge you for that is
easily performed in one's garage--check the manual.

>I called up 3 dealers in my area and found that the 7500 mile service on a '95 
>Classic runs $45-54. Are all the services subsidized and equally cheap? Can
you 
>have multiple 7500 mile services? Like every 3,000 miles for instance?
Henry B. Wilson             http://vumclib.mc.vanderbilt.edu/~wilsonhb
henben@aol.com (currently most reliable) or wilsonhb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

           '59 AHY 100-6                    '94 Disco
                              
      "The Healey's clean; the Rover's filthy.  Life is perfect."

------------------------------

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