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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 10:58:11 +0001
Subject: NAsty Scratch

Sorry, ment that the scratch is 10 cm long. On some places the metal can
been seen. Hereby also an ascii image of the Landie.

LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR
                ____
      =A6   _____/=A6__=A6=A6   Roy Wassili,<wassili@amc.uva.nl>
      =A6  /(-8=A6  \   =A6   Avalon Green '95 Dicovery,
  ____=A6_/[]__=A6__\___=A6#  scarved for live
 =A6] __=3D =A6    =A6  __  =A6#
[=A6_/  \_=A6 ___=A6_/  \_=A6]
  ( o )        ( o )

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 20:24:40 +1000
From: o.evans@latrobe.edu.au (Owen Evans)
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

>From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar)
>Anyone have a method for removing the front exhaust pipe from the manifold?
>Vehicle in question is a '66 IIa 88. My best guess so far is to use a really
>long extension on a 1/ 4" socket and get it from the bottom.

I used a socket extension (about 12in (300mm)) and it worked fine.  There
is a problem that you can easily get enough torque to shear off the stud,
particularly if the stud is a bit rusted.

Owen Evans
Melbourne, Australia
1971 SIIa 88

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:21:25 +1000 (EST)
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: CB40

rumours I heard
the CB40 is the Odin is the new monocoque small Landy with a "modern" motor
(that has been talked about for > 10 years).

The Defender will get a make-over in a year or two.

The D90 *might* come to oz (in diesel form).

Lloyd

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 07:15:18 GMT -0600
Subject: warn winch

dbobeck@ushmm.org asks about a used warn winch.
Pull off the solenoid cover. If there are four ford type starter solenoids, 
the winch is defective if it won't power out. You can discoonnect 
them and test them to see if it is the solenoids or the motor. *Be 
careful* though if the winch is mounted on a vehicle. Some of the 
connections are live. Disconnect the battery before you stick a 
wrench in there.
Actually, I guess you can just look at the remote. If the plug has 
four connections, it's designed to power out. It could be just a bad 
connection. I get that sometimes on my Warn if I haven't used it in 
a while.

Tom R

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:09:34 +0100
From: andre@lunatech.com (Andre Posumentov)
Subject: Defender fog generator

Greetings all,

As winter draws near in the UK, I find myself again wondering whether
anyone has found a way to circumvent the internal fog generator cunningly
designed into the LR Defender:

I'm talking about the phenomenon whereby the vehicles that have the air
intake on top of the wings imediately cover the windscreen with
condensation, when the heater is started after a night out in the rain.

I've considered fitting Series I windscreen wipers to the inside of the
screen, but that seems a trifle extreme...

Cheers,

-- andre

-----------------------------------------------
Andre Posumentov
andre@lunatech.com

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: wenches...er...winches
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 08:21:00 DST

Never mine Alan's straight lines. Who'd want an 8000 lb wench anyway?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 07:32:32 EDT
From: trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu (Tom Rowe)
Subject: Re: 12-speed?

On Wed, 25 Oct 1995 20:10:11 +0100 cs@crl.com wrote:

> 12 Speed?  Not so far fetched...  4 speeds forward, overdrive, and reverse
> =6 x high/low =12 Speeds!!!  [Common misinterpretation :]

Actually, if you use low range, then high range, split shifting with
the overdrive all the way up, you'll get even more. Let's see,
low = 4  x 2 is              8 speeds
high = 4 x 2 is              8 speeds
high&low reverse x 2 is 4 speeds
			20 speed land rover!

That almost rivals a Unimog.  ;-)

Tom Rowe
UW Center for Dairy Research
Madison, WI 53706	| Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
wk 608-265-6194	| in places even more inaccessible
hm 608-243-8660

------------------------------

Date:     Thu, 26 Oct 95 9:38:01 EDT (1338Z)
From: LTC Larry Smith <smithla@arngrc-emh2.army.mil>
Subject:  Heaters

To all,

There was a thread earlier about using alternative heater cores, valves & 
industrial strength Kodiak & truck heaters.  My question:  Has anyone come up 
with a "non-stock" blower assembly?  My series III fan has begun to self 
destruct because of ultraviolet light and the motor has become a single speed.
I have found a used one for $120 (USD) and RN has a non-genuine replacement for
the same price.  As with most, my piggy bank isn't that full, but I don't want 
to wear all of my cold weather gear all winter either.

Thanks in advance,

Larry

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Defender fog generator
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 14:03:07 GMT

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 28 lines)]
> Andre Posumentov
> andre@lunatech.com
Andre,
You'll be pleased to know that this feature is just one example
of Land Rover's policy of interchangability.The same feature
also fits S1,11,11A and 111.The only difference is that yours
is fresg air fog,and mine is recycled.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date:     Thu, 26 Oct 95 9:52:48 EDT (1352Z)
From: LTC Larry Smith <smithla@arngrc-emh2.army.mil>
Subject:  Rear Hub Seals

To all,

A while back, I posted a notice requesting the part number for rear axle hub
seals.  Thanks to all for your response.

While I had the hubs apart, I went ahead and replaced the distance pieces (fits
on the axle stub for the seal to ride on).  All references I had called for a
piece of pipe to seat.  Went to the local yard-no scrap & a small fortune to 
cut a piece to length.  The local plumbing shop had 2 inch diameter (apologies 
to those on the right side of the pond) "connectors" that were 4 inches long.  
Got two, a union (connector, not the organization), and a cap.  This created a 
nice, but heavy device for seating the distance pieces without cocking them or 
destroying the outer edge with a punch.  The union provides a good handle.

'til later,

Larry

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 09:56:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Metric Land Rovers

On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, David Bartlett wrote:

> What I like about the SI system is that it is constructed from only
> 7 basic units, with the others being derived from them. To
> accommodate ranges of size for each unit there is a neat set of
> multipliers defined which simply prefix the unit. 

	The irony is that they could just as easily taken the foot, 
	pound, gallon and built the SI system around those units,
	dropping all those very nice fractions and other things that
	make the brain have to function...

> However, taking this emotion of the discussion, I think that the SI
> system is better than the old imperial one. Look at things
> objectively and let me know if I am wrong. 

	If you start with nothing, then SI looks rather intriguing.  If
	you have one intrenched, SI isn't as pretty.  To keep some Euro-
	philes happy, the UK goes officially metric & the populace
	is going to take it in the wallet/purse to pay for an unnecessary
	change.  Whether or not you buy apples by the pound or the kilo
	isn't going to help the balance of payments, so why change?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 10:32:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Defender fog generator

On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Mike Rooth wrote:

> You'll be pleased to know that this feature is just one example
> of Land Rover's policy of interchangability.The same feature
> also fits S1,11,11A and 111.The only difference is that yours
> is fresg air fog,and mine is recycled.
>.
	Ahhh, I didn't realise that the Home market got this feature too!
	I was under the impression that is was only fitted to the export
	market Land Rovers.  What vision on Land Rovers behalf.  A feature
	for *all* Land Rovers (except the early Series Ones built before
	they invented fog)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 08:18:25 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: New car extended warranty...

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: New car extended warranty...
I would suggest this based on my experiences. When I bought my Disco ('94) I
passed up this option, with the understanding that it could be added any
time prior to the end of the 42K mile (?km) warranty. With all the little
bugs that the Disco had fixed, and now with my RR approaching the 100K mile
mark, I wish I had the warranty on the RR! I've spent almost $500 on getting
it running right that would have been covered. Many other little things that
I learned to live with (seat switches, etc...) could also have been
replaced.

I think it could pay off....

Good luck with your decision. Dave (no warranty) Brown

#=======#          ________           We make a living by what we get,
|__|__|__\___     /__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
| _|  |   |_ |}   \_/-\_|__/-\_|}
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill

------------------------------

From: JHobbs151@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 11:18:39 -0400
Subject: This guy hates Land Rover!

I pulled this message of a CompuServe forum yesterday and was stunned. The
author definitely doesn't think highly of Land Rovers. Thought it might
interest some of you.

<<<I can't believe anyone would buy one of those overpriced SUV's.  My good
friend bought a 4.0 SE this summer for pretty close to list price and it was
a totl piece of junk!!  After a month of seeing large pools of leaking oil on
his garage floor and four trips to the dealer for this problem the dealer
said that they were unable to fix it and wanted to get him anohter one.  He
had to wait about three weeks for another red one to arrive and it leaked
even worse!!

After trying to pass these large pools off as Cosmoline during shipping he
finally got so sick of those Range Rover snobs that he had to threaten to sue
them before they would agree to buy it back.

Now he has a Suburban 4x4 and it has more room, more power, and has a
sparkling reliability record

Rovers are overrated to say the least and are definitly not worth 10 to 15
thousand more than an Explorer, Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban, or GC

Rob>>>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 08:39:15 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: 12 speed? Mine is a "16 speed" and 4 reverse. ;)

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: 12 speed? Mine is a "16 speed" and 4 reverse. ;)
With overdrive!
  4 speed low range
  4 speed low with OD engaged
  4 speed high
  4 speed high with OD.

I'm *sure* this is what they meant to say by "12 speed".

L8r...

#=======#          ________           We make a living by what we get,
|__|__|__\___     /__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
| _|  |   |_ |}   \_/-\_|__/-\_|}
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer <Alan_Richer.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 26 Oct 95 11:53:50 EDT
Subject: Re: This guy hates Land Rover!

{gratuitous hate mail deleted....}

Obviously, this guy's never seen a Seies vehicle, and has never been off-road 
in anything real.

Someboy ought to take him for a ride - One way.....8*)

   aj"With a cement life preserver"r

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 09:26:21 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Unimog Network Int'l)
Subject: Re[2]: 12-speed?

 Tom Rowe <trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu> writes:
>low = 4  x 2 is              8 speeds
 high = 4 x 2 is              8 speeds
 high&low reverse x 2 is 4 speeds
 ... 20 speed land rover!
 That almost rivals a Unimog.  ;-)

 Actually, my Unimog 404 only has 6 forward speeds and 2 reverse = 8.
 No hi/low, no overdrive (I wish!)...  :(
 It does have 2 wheel/4 wheel/all wheel (diff. lock) shifting on the
 fly, does that count?

                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 12:45:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Re: Brakes

TeriAnn,

> The obvious answer is that you want to duplicate the brake system of a late IIA 
> or series III 88.  Looks like you did it.  You can ether get a front left wing 
> from one of the formentioned cars or cut your up for clearence.  I cut mine 
> using measurments I gathered from a series III.

    That's exactly my approach: upgrade to later 88 brakes.  It was my
    original intent to just stop there (no pun intended!) but then I
    figured I'd see if there were any other simple steps for getting
    even better brakes, as long as I'm in there cutting and fitting.

    If I go with an actual SIII fender, I have the problem of the extra
    headlight hole, so I'll probably just cut mine.

> You will need to elongate the hole in the bulkhead for the brake pedal.  He 
> mounting holes match up but the pedal is hinged differently and will require you
> to cut the slot a little liwer.

> There is a bracket on the bulkhead that the rear of the wing bolts to.  It has 
> two welded nuts on it.  You will need to cut half of the top of the bracket off 
> for clutch master cylinder clearence.

    Thanks for these tips, I wouldn't have thought of that (until it
    didn't work!)

    With this setup, I can join in the SIII-owners' fun of aiming clutch
    master fluid in the gap between the open hood and firewall, to fill
    up the reservoir, right?

> On the 88, the front master cylinder goes to the front brakes.  

    Glad you pointed that out- I'm not sure how else I would have known,
    short of finding a SIII to look at.

> The 109 front brakes are larger with more braking area and have two wheel 
> cylinders per side.  You can swap them by replacing back plates outward.  The 

    That would seem appealing, but...

> If you decide to go with the 109 front brakes you will need a 109 master brake 
> cylinder and a PDWA (no mechanical linkage between front & rear circuits so uses
> PDWA to cut off open circuit).  The 109 master brake cylinder is identifiable by
> having a larger diameter for the rear circuit.  The 88 master cylinder is the 

    ...then I'm adding greatly to the complication, and risking
    upsetting braking balance.  Not to mention I already have the new 88
    brake master, and don't want to have to buy something different!

    And what does PDWA stand for?

> There is at least one person I know who put coil spring dront & rear axles & 
> suspension on a series car.  Took a bit of welding & a little engineering.  He 
> has a disk brake coil sprung 88 that has wheel articulation that would make a 
> D90 envious.  Know another person who put an 88 body on a Range Rover shasis, 
> suspension & drive train.  Most impressive 88 series II Range Rover

    Sounds like the first guy put the coil springs themselves under the
    88 too.  I was talking about *just* using the axles (with disc
    brakes) and retaining the existing springs.  Seems like you could
    weld on the spring mounting pads, cut away any of the existing coil
    spring/locating rod pieces that got in the way, and do it pretty
    easily.  If I wanted to go coil sprung (and I don't) it would
    probably be simpler to start off with a galvanized coil sprung
    chassis and go from there.

    I have now seen two SIII's which were just the existing body set on
    top of a shortened Range Rover chassis.  One is Dave Schworm's
    "Strange Rover" which has been on the road a few years now, and the
    other was a recently-completed one I saw at the BRLRC meet (didn't
    catch the guys name; it was a white hardtop.)  They both used
    Defender nose pieces, of course, to allow room for the V8.

    Duncan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:12:34 -0300
From: Joseph Broach <calas@UTKVX.UTCC.UTK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Series lll  Hand Throttle

    The idea behind the hand-throttle is something that has always escaped
me. I have come to four possible theories on its use:

* A very dangerous cruise control? :-}

* Low speed, rough conditions where foot pressure may be erratic

* Since I believe it came mostly on diesels, maybe a way to raise idle when
cold?

* Constant throttle while operating a PTO winch?

    Maybe some hand-throttler out there can set me straight.

'67 88 (currently alpine white,limestone,marine blue,and pastel green! :-)
-Regards,
 Joseph Broach  <calas@utkap1.utk.edu> 
 Knoxville, Tennessee

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 10:23:21 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: 12-speed?

In message <199510260139.UAA07478@butler.uk.stratus.com> Duncan Brown writes:
 
; > I met a man yesterday that was selling his Series 88 '69 Land Rover.  It is
> > a twelve speed 4WD. .
;
>     Oh please oh please let there be someone on this list who lives
>     close enough to go check it out.  We need to know The Rest Of The
>     Story on this one!  12 speed?
;
Sound like its another way of saying the car has an overdrive installed.

By my count, 4 gears, doubled by OD = 8 doubled by lo range = 16 forward & 4 
reverse

TeriAnn
8 forward 2 reverse

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:00:26 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Series lll  Hand Throttle

>     Maybe some hand-throttler out there can set me straight.

The hand throttle on the petrol is primarily designed to maintain a 
semi constant speed when operating PTO equipment. It could be used 
in conjuction with a govenor to maintain a minmum speed. The governor 
would boost the throttle when the idle speed droped due to a load.

I believe it would be quite dangerous to use as a cruise control.

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Is a Pattern Emerging?
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 16:56:29 GMT

*If* it is true that the BMW boss is saying it doesnt matter
where Land Rovers are built,and *if* its true that large engine
design is to be masterminded away from Rover,is the pattern
emerging?
That for instance,BMW didnt really want Rover cars at all,but
just Land Rover.And having got Land Rover are they already
starting to move it to der fatherland?Or thinking that way?
At the very least,having expensively failed to produce a 4X4
of their own,to start telling Land Rover how to do it seems
a colossal arrogance.
Since Roger Crathorne is reported as being less than totally
chuffed with the BMW engined Range Rover,they really arent
doing all *that* well in this,for them,totally new field.
Mind you,Roger Crathorne is also reported as saying his
favourite vehicle for Camel type events would be a D130
Tdi.A much under rated and undersold vehicle in my view.
I want one!
It is also noticeable that,by the same token,nothing ever
really changes.The Times recently reported that the only
reason Rover didnt make a loss was the fact that Land
Rover got 'em out of it.So what's different?Been that
way since 1948.

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer <Alan_Richer.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 26 Oct 95 15:09:27 EDT
Subject: Re: Series lll Hand Throttle

>    The idea behind the hand-throttle is something that has always escaped
>me. I have come to four possible theories on its use:

>* A very dangerous cruise control? :-}

 Only if you're nuts....8*)

>* Low speed, rough conditions where foot pressure may be erratic

 Actually, when climbing it's handy. You can set it and stay
 off the gas - less chance of breaking something with
 irregular throttle.

>* Since I believe it came mostly on diesels, maybe a way to raise idle when
>cold?
 As a matter of fact, that use is direct from
 the owner's manual. It's the only way to
 get fast(er) idle when cold.

 Choke? What's that?

>* Constant throttle while operating a PTO winch?

 Considering most PTO accessories expect a constant speed
  (why does 540 RpM come to mind? ) I can see it being used 
 for this. Not my speed, though.

>    Maybe some hand-throttler out there can set me straight.

One thing I've found it useful for (my car is a converted Diesel - still has 
the hand throttle) is for warmup when cold. When my engine is cold, if I leave 
it on the choke it loads up and stalls out. With the engine running and the 
choke off, I can advance the hand throttle to give it fast idle without a rich 
mixture - doesn't load up or stall. Hello Weber carburettors.....8*)

Incidentally, anybody got any comments on why it does this? I've accepted it as 
"nature of the beastr", but a fix would be nice..... -lan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 14:27:56 -0600 (CST)
From: gwsmith@selu.edu (G. Warren Smith)
Subject: Tires

I've been using 7.50x16 Michelin XY (more  recently XZY) tires on my 1965
Series IIA Dormobile 109 for nearly thirty years now and still have seven of
them in various states of reliability.  They are becoming ever harder to
find (and afford)  and yet I don't want to have to replace them all at once;
especially since they have been a generally satisfactory tire for my random
off/on road adventures (currently , about 400k miles; mostly, but not
always, on tarmac).  What suggestions does anyone have about continuing to
track down increasingly elusive XZY's ; mixing what I have with another
tread design/manufacturer, or starting to shift the whole lot towards
replacement with something entirely different.?  Many thanks.

Warren
Dr. G. Warren Smith,
Honors Professor of Arts and Sciences
Southeastern Louisiana University
SLU 942
Hammond, LA  70402

gwsmith@selu.edu

(504) 549-3695
(504) 549-3595 FAX

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:57:58 -0600 (MDT)
From: Rob Bailey <baileyr@cuug.ab.ca>
Subject: Solex Choke Adjustment

I heard from a LR mechanic that the Solex choke control should be facing 
straight down when the choke is off. Mine is adjusted so that it ends up 
pointing towards 5 o'clock when looking at the lever from the right hand 
side. It appears as though it should be off when it is pushed as far 
forward as possible, but I haven't had a Solex apart. Does anybody happen 
to know which adjustment is correct, my repair books don't even mention 
the choke. Does anybody understand this message?

Thanks, 
Rob

------------------------------

From: "Hugh Grierson" <Hugh_Grierson@trimble.co.nz>
Date:          Fri, 27 Oct 1995 09:11:51 +1300
Subject:       Re: Metric Land Rovers

Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca> writes...
> 	The irony is that they could just as easily taken the foot, 
> 	pound, gallon and built the SI system around those units,

True, except which gallon would be used?  And how many cubic
decifeet are there in a gallon?  And about how much does a cubic
foot of water weigh?  Shrug.
 
-- 
Hugh Grierson   hugh_grierson@trimble.co.nz  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 14:24:55 -0600 (MDT)
From: Rob Bailey <baileyr@cuug.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: wench...er...winches

>>Is there a filler plug or something?

>There should be, in the side with the gears, unless it's built into the 
>motor itself, then it may be grease-packed. My Bellview is oil-bath....

The Warn winches that have an oil bath type lube system, don't have 
filler plugs, the top of the gearcase is removed and 6 oz. (M8274) of 30 
weight is put in.

>>Do you have a number for Warn by any chance?

1-800-543-9276, this is their customer service line. They will send out 
catalogs, troubleshooting guides and even owners manuals for older 
winches. The Winch that you describe could be very old though...

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 16:33:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Is a Pattern Emerging?

On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Mike Rooth wrote:

> *If* it is true that the BMW boss is saying it doesnt matter
> where Land Rovers are built,and *if* its true that large engine
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> of their own,to start telling Land Rover how to do it seems
> a colossal arrogance.

I imagine you are right Mike -- since presumably nobody in his right 
mind would have bought Rover on the basis of its car division's recent 
stellar successes. The Land Rover division was probably the only bit 
worth having. I suppose time will tell.

I didn't know about the BMW effort to produce its own 4X4 -- tell us more!

Cheers

John Brabyn
89 RR

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 16:24:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: interesting news

On Wed, 25 Oct 1995, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

> is my understanding that the 1997 car will be the Odin project car.  A very 
> cheap (or at least designed to be inexpensive to build) small (throwaway ie 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> different from the defender or series Land Rover.  It suspect that Odin, like 
> the Discovery and new Range Rover will have minimal ground clearence.

TeriAnn -- I think you are right on target. The drawings I've seen make 
it hard to imagine it has any significant ground clearance at all except 
maybe enough to clear the speed bumps at the supermarket.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Subject: Re: This guy hates Land Rover! 
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 16:57:56 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199510261519.KAA08651@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote:
  
	Ok, I can't let this one go by.  Too bad the email address of the
origional author wasn't included...   (And I really hate defending the 
Range Rover mk2...)

> <<<I can't believe anyone would buy one of those overpriced SUV's.  My good
> friend bought a 4.0 SE this summer for pretty close to list price and it was
> a totl piece of junk!!  

	Oil leak==total piece of junk?  It depends upon how big I guess.  Did
he have no other criteria?

> After a month of seeing large pools of leaking oil on
> his garage floor and four trips to the dealer for this problem the dealer
> said that they were unable to fix it and wanted to get him anohter one.  

	And how big was the leak.  A few drops overnight?  Or a 1 foot puddle?
  
> Now he has a Suburban 4x4 and it has more room, more power, and has a
> sparkling reliability record

	Until he takes it off road.   I went on a field trip with the Caltech
Geology Department.  The tranny crossmember on one ripped off on one side,
slamming the distributer against the firewall.  This was Baja.  Guess who had
to come up with a solution.  The nest morning on another truck the exhaust
pipe severed under the driver.  All we were doing is driving wash boarded
dirt roads at moderate speeds.  When I fixed the first one, I was suprised at
how thin the "C" frame was.  

> Rovers are overrated to say the least and are definitly not worth 10 to 15
> thousand more than an Explorer, Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban, or GC

	And I always say, lets see which one is still running in 10 years...

	23 years and still going...

Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Date: 26 Oct 95 20:43:36 EDT
From: James Mobley <70302.2516@compuserve.com>
Subject: San Bernardino Discovery!

Christopher Boese of San Bernardino welcome to Land Rover ownership!

You must drive the other white Discovery I've seen around. Mine is a 95
Discovery, White, sun roofs, auto trans, cloth interior.

If you want to know where to gain a full appreciation of your Discovery's
capabilities let me know. I'll tell you where to try it out locally.

See you 4-wheeling!

**Those aren't scratches, that's Desert Pinstriping!**

Jim
San Bernardino, (Highland actually) California, USA
70302.2516@compuserve.com

------------------------------

Date: 26 Oct 95 20:43:33 EDT
From: James Mobley <70302.2516@compuserve.com>
Subject: Disco Wheels, Tires, etc.

Well, I think I've sorted out the problem I've been having with my postings
going to the wrong address. (My own stupid fault, I'm afraid.)

I had asked about steel wheels for a Discovery and want thank all who replied.
I did find that John Cradock Land Rover in England will sell me a set of four
used factory 7x16s for $205 US including air shipping to my nearest airport
(Ontario). So I am ordering them tomorrow.

Which still leaves the problem of tires. I'd like to put BFG Mud Terrain T/As on
and they make two sizes that I think might work: 225/75-16 and 245/75-16.

I am sure that the 225/75s will fit as they are just a smidgen bigger in
diameter and slightly narrower than the stock 235/70-16s.

Does anyone know if the 245/75s will fit? By fit I mean the don't rub at full
wheel travel. (I'd like to go to a larger tire for both clearance and flotation
reasons, but I'm not prepared to trim fenders or give up wheel travel.)

Thanks for any input!

**Those aren't scratches, they're Desert Pinstriping!**

Jim
San Bernardino, California, USA
70302.2516@compuserve.com 

------------------------------

Date: 26 Oct 95 20:43:31 EDT
From: James Mobley <70302.2516@compuserve.com>
Subject: Skinny Tiers

Well, I think I've sorted out the problem I've been having with my postings
going to the wrong address. (My own stupid fault, I'm afraid.)

I had wondered why the British tend to use, by US standards, such skinny tires.
My fellow Compuserver Robert Dennis wrote:

>>I am a firm believer that thinner tires work much better than fat ones
especially in the mud ... it allows the tire to drop through the muck to more
firm ground ...

Well Robert your experience and mine differ. (I suspect that our mud differs
too!)

I've had lots of vehicles stuck in mud and have never felt that there was any
firm ground to sink to closer than China. I've even had a tractor with 60"
"chevron" tires up to its axles in goo that seemed firm when we walked on it
prior to driving on it. (Took a backhoe to get that one out.) 

The mud in these parts isn't the wet "squishy" kind you see in the Camel Trophy
videos. It is a mixture of sand, silt and clay, usually deep, that will swallow
vehicles whole. (We don't get much mud here unless it's been raining for three
weeks.)

Thus I tend to fall into the flotation camp for mud tires. (I like snow tires
tall and narrow.) In Everglades National Park the rangers will not issue you a
back country permit unless you have tires with at least 9" of tread width. This
translates to about a 32x11.5-15 as a minimum.

What we have the most of here in So. Cal. is sand and rocks and I believe that
wider tires have signifcant advantages in those areas too. Sand requires
flotation and in rocks a wide tire can run lower pressures and "wrap" around the
rocks. This gives great traction and a smooth ride.

The main reason I asked about the sizes I did is that that is what is available
here in the states. It is very hard to find a large selection of small 16"
tires--225/75-16 and 245/75-16 are about the only options. The 85 series tires
just aren't made small enough.

Anyway that's my reasoning and desires and my feelings won't be hurt if anyone
disagrees!

**Those aren't scratches, they're Desert Pinstriping!**

Jim
San Bernardino, California, USA
70302,2516@compuserve.com 

------------------------------

From: "David McKain" <MCKAIN@cemr.wvu.edu>
Date:          Thu, 26 Oct 1995 20:46:47 EDT
Subject:       Used Rover's

Could anyone out there take a peek at 
www.cemr.wvu.edu/~wwwatf/brlrc/help.htm
It shows a lot of old LR's for sale (the lot) and I need to see if it 
works. FYI about 3000 for the lot.

e-mail back if you have any ideas. Thanks.

David McKain
1966 SIIa Petrol
mckain@cemr.wvu.edu
(304) 599-0120
Morgantown, WV
USA                     

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 17:51:50 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Is a Pattern Emerging?

In message <199510261856.NAA08938@butler.uk.stratus.com> Mike Rooth writes:

> Since Roger Crathorne is reported as being less than totally
> chuffed with the BMW engined Range Rover,

Dateline Bavaria

The director of Land Rover Gmbh announced a new series of Land Rovers percision 
engineered for different markets.  The 3 series Land Rover comes standard with a
16 valve dual overhead cam four cyliner engine that gets 180 HP at 7000 RPM.

Next up the scale is the five series land Rover with the new quad cam 24 valve 
port injected V6.  For those towing trailers there is the 7 series Land Rover 
with its quad cam four valves per cylinder V8 that produces 320 HP at 7200 RPM.

And for those who tow yaughts, we have the 8 series with it's mighty V12.

Four wheel drive optional at extra cost on special orders.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

From: rob_hooper@om.cv.hp.com
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 18:12:08 -0700
Subject: Replace Diff Ring Gear Bolts and Keepers

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
     Here's and extract from my previous post about blown half shaft and 
     diff. crownwheel bolts. It's CHEAP insurance to replace bolts and 
     keepers.
     
     ...story deleted...
     What happened according to my discussions at that time ('78) with 
     Rover UK was that those funky 10mm shoulder bolts (there are two of 
     them opposite one another - that's why the 2 different part numbers 
     for bolts in the factory parts manual) are designed to shear to help 
     protect the pinion/crownwheel when the half shafts left loose under 
     load. Find that in the shop manuals!! :-| So the moral is, blow a half 
     shaft, replace all bolts and keepers. BTW, I still have the two 
     offending bolts and the one has grind marks from the outer surface of 
     the crownwheel - the one punched through the housing.
     
     Good luck remember to keep things clean when you put it back together. 
     That's another of the favorite SPOT tricks, lack of cleanliness during 
     reassembly of engines, trannies, brakes!
     
     Cheers, Rob Hooper

------------------------------

From: Inkornoink@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 22:08:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Used Rover's

Mckains site works, and the beasts look as if they have seen some good times.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:17:56 -0500
From: lindy@magellan.cloudnet.com (Steven A. Lindquist)
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

How can I unsubscribe from this mailing list...I thought I followed the
instructions quite accurately, evidently not!!!! Please help.
Thanks,
Steven

>Land-Rover-Owner List &  Land Rover Owner Daily Digest List
>Send submissions to the list to:	lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>	  Contents:
>  1 s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU Wed Oct 25 03:32   32/1597  Re: Bosch
into Lucas star
>  2 Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk Wed Oct 25 03:56   40/2052  Re: Anti-skid wing tops?
>  3 s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU Wed Oct 25 04:01   66/4013  Re: shocker
mounts
>  4 DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM Wed Oct 25 05:12   45/2500  Re: Them's the brakes
>  5 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Wed Oct 25 05:53   24/998   What Now????
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> 11 ccaamet@ucl.ac.uk  Wed Oct 25 09:13   44/1772  Buying an old(er) Range R
> 12 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com Wed Oct 25 09:16   27/1466
Turn Signal wheels - avai
> 13 Harincar@mooregs.com Wed Oct 25 09:53   37/1585  Series: Removing the fron
> 14 wassili@AMC.UVA.NL Wed Oct 25 09:56   50/2440  Nasty scratch
> 15 ccray@showme.missouri.edu Wed Oct 25 10:36   37/1962  Re: Turn Signal
wheels - 
> 16 twakeman@apple.com Wed Oct 25 10:53   76/3790  Re: Them's the brakes
> 17 cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us Wed Oct 25 10:57   45/2599  new member,
new Discovery
> 18 rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Wed Oct 25 11:37   43/2156  re: interesting news
> 19 dbobeck@ushmm.org  Wed Oct 25 11:45   25/1330  wench...er...winches
> 20 matts@cacilj.caciasl.com Wed Oct 25 12:32   24/1129  Ignition lock sticking
> 21 matts@cacilj.caciasl.com Wed Oct 25 12:39   22/1025  Safari Gard phone
numbers
> 22 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com Wed Oct 25 12:40   50/2197
Re: wench...er...winches
> 23 brabyn@skivs.ski.org Wed Oct 25 12:48   37/1581  re: interesting news
> 24 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Wed Oct 25 12:56   57/2776  Re: Stutterin' speedos
> 25 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Wed Oct 25 12:56   20/963   Re: Bits for SII(a?)
> 26 dbobeck@ushmm.org  Wed Oct 25 13:07   49/2453  Re[2]: wench...er...winch
> 27 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com Wed Oct 25 13:15   39/1731
Re: Re[2]: wench...er...w
> 28 twakeman@apple.com Wed Oct 25 13:47   42/1992  Re: Re[2]: wench...er...w
> 29 twakeman@apple.com Wed Oct 25 14:02   46/2246  Re: interesting news
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)]
> 46 jcwhite3@well.com  Wed Oct 25 23:38   68/3148  Re: Nasty scratch
> 47 bartlett@hlalapansi.win-uk.net Thu Oct 26 02:31   71/3546  Re: Metric
Land Rovers
>------------------------------
>From: Brian Neill Tiedemann <s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU>
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 301 lines)]
>Subject: Turn Signal wheels - availability?
>Anybody got a good source for the damned little rubber wheel in the turn
signal 
>assembly? DAP and RN denied all knowledge, and Signal-Stat refused to even 
>admit they made the silly thing.....8*)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 78 lines)]
>x
>> Anybody got a good source for the damned little rubber wheel in the turn
signal 
>x
>> assembly? DAP and RN denied all knowledge, and Signal-Stat refused to even 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 34 lines)]
>;
>The obvious answer is that you want to duplicate the brake system of a late
IIA 
>or series III 88.  Looks like you did it.  You can ether get a front left wing 
>from one of the formentioned cars or cut your up for clearence.  I cut mine 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>You will need to elongate the hole in the bulkhead for the brake pedal.  He 
>mounting holes match up but the pedal is hinged differently and will
require you
>to cut the slot a little liwer.
>There is a bracket on the bulkhead that the rear of the wing bolts to.  It has 
>two welded nuts on it.  You will need to cut half of the top of the bracket
>You will need to elongate the hole in the bulkhead for the brake pedal.  He 
off 
>for clutch master cylinder clearence.
>On the 88, the front master cylinder goes to the front brakes.  
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>cylinders per side.  You can swap them by replacing back plates outward.  The 
>six cylinder 109 has still more brake surface but the parts are a little
harder 
>to come by and a little more expensive.
>If you decide to go with the 109 front brakes you will need a 109 master brake 
>cylinder and a PDWA (no mechanical linkage between front & rear circuits so
>You will need to elongate the hole in the bulkhead for the brake pedal.  He 
uses
>PDWA to cut off open circuit).  The 109 master brake cylinder is
identifiable by
>having a larger diameter for the rear circuit.  The 88 master cylinder is the 
>same diameter front to rear.  For the 109, the rear cylinder goes to the front 
>brakes..  When you order master cylinder & PDWA specify 1984 109 and you will 
>get the correct parts.  This works fine with earlier 109 wheel cylinders
and the
>earlier power brake booster & pedistal.
>;
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 136 lines)]
>designed that way? I thought only Bellview was that crazy.....
>     Al Richer
>          Greetings.
Steven 

------------------------------

From: Inkornoink@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 22:24:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Used Rover's

I am insearch of a Defender 110-esque vehicle......any suggestions?  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 22:40:12 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Speedo redux

The speedo is still erratic...sometimes working perfectly, other times 
flailing about, *but* the whole time, the odometer works perfectly.  I don't 
think its the cable/sheath.  It's but 2 yr. old and I took the cable out and 
lubed it with this miracle PTFE speedo grease before reinserting it.  It's 
gotta be in the head...(or mine)  Cheers
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

From: Inkornoink@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 23:46:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Used Rover's

I just received my '90 RR back from the dealer today  -- it underwent it's
rust warranty service -- looks brand new!   If you live in Chicago and are
considering a Rover, please let me suggest the Bill Jacobs dealerships  (over
Knauz)  their service is out of this world.  Especially the guys (and lady)
at their Hinsdale store.

PS  still in search of a more utilitarian LR  -- especially a longer wheel
base.

HR Gregory
90 RR C

------------------------------

From: HMEdwards@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 23:50:06 -0400
Subject: Overdrive

I am about to install a Superwinch overdrive into my Series III.  Does anyone
have any tips or problem areas to watch out for before I get into doing the
dirty work. TIA

Harry Edwards
Las Vegas, NV
72 Series III

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:57:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John C. White III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: This guy hates Land Rover!

You thought it would be of interest to us, did you?  It isn't to me.  My 
experience with the considerably cheaper Discovery has not been that of 
the poor sot with the 4.0SE.  I wouldn't be at all surprized if Land 
Rover doesn't produce the occasional lemon.  Sh*t happens, plus one or 
two vehicles does not a statistically significant sample make.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery, and happy with it.
San Francisco, California

On Thu, 26 Oct 1995 JHobbs151@aol.com wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> I pulled this message of a CompuServe forum yesterday and was stunned. The
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 28 lines)]
> thousand more than an Explorer, Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban, or GC
> Rob>>>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:49:48 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: LROA web page incorrect

It has come to my attention that a couple of things posted on the web page 
that I've been working on for LROA are incorrect, and might possibly be 
offensive.  

Specifically, the page takes credit (on behalf of LROA) for organizing 
(partially) the national rally that is really done by the Solihull Society.  
I had no intention of stealing credit from the SS; I just copied stuff from 
old papers I had laying about.  (I think there was at one point the 
*intention* of sponsoring the rally.)  

In any case, I apologize to all the members of SS, especially those who work 
so hard to put on the rally.  Note that this page was not approved or 
sponsored by the LROA VIP's; it was just something I was doing on my own.  It 
was, in fact, an officer that pointed out the error to me and said it 
shouldn't say that.  Sorry!

Also, it says LROA sponsers events, but the club hasn't done that for several 
years.  

I hope I didn't screw things up betwixt LROA & SS.  I'm just a big twit who 
manages to get both feet in his mouth sometimes. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 22:14:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John C. White III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Is a Pattern Emerging?

Ach, all this worry over the Deutsch-ification of Land Rover.  I 
seriously doubt that BMW is stupid enough to ruin a good thing; however, 
it might put in some decent electricals, which would have us all singing 
to "das Vaterland."  Well, maybe not.  But, if the Bavarians do prove to 
be out to lunch, the new ones will be "dreck," but we'll still have our 
old ones.

Prost!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California

On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> In message <199510261856.NAA08938@butler.uk.stratus.com> Mike Rooth writes:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 28 lines)]
> Four wheel drive optional at extra cost on special orders.
> TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 22:20:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John C. White III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Used Rover's

Defender 110-esque vehicle?  I could be wrong, but I believe the correct 
French would be "defender le cent-dixieme." :-)  Get a D110.  Accept no 
substitutes.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California

On Thu, 26 Oct 1995 Inkornoink@aol.com wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> I am insearch of a Defender 110-esque vehicle......any suggestions?  
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> I am insearch of a Defender 110-esque vehicle......any suggestions?  

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 01:56:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: wenches...er...winches

 
> Never mine Alan's straight lines. Who'd want an 8000 lb wench anyway?

Like my Grandfather used to say... "Marry a fat tattooed lady and you'll
have shade in the summer, warmth in the winter and moving pictures all year
round."

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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