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From: Brian Neill Tiedemann <s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Bosch into Lucas starter?
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 18:30:59 +1000 (EST)

Daryl wrote:
> most inconvenient....

Now I've a theory on that one: has anyone sighted Joe Lucas' wedding 
certificate? I'm all for starting a rumour that his darling wife's maiden 
name was Murphy!
:)
seeya
Brian.
77 RR

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:54:14 +0000
Subject:       Re: Anti-skid wing tops?

> I've also noticed some diamond plate patches advertised in LRO for much 
> the same purpose.  Do people really stand up there?  How much weight will 
> a wing support?
I've got some 6mm aluminium diamond-plate rivited onto the tops of my 
wings. I found that when getting down from the roof, I was in danger 
of slipping off the wings. The diamond-plate gives much better grip 
(and also strengthens the wing :)

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

    Hero Figure: BOFH..

------------------------------

From: Brian Neill Tiedemann <s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: shocker mounts
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 18:59:24 +1000 (EST)

John wrote:
> Thanks for the info Brian. Also about the Gabriel air adjustable shocks 
> -- I was wondering if they could be used to adjust ride height with a 
> suitable air system -- not necesarily the one supplied with them (if 
> any). What do you know about them??

Yes it could be done, and I even thought about doing it, but I still do 
not think that this would be a great idea, for the reason stated before 
of constant loads being carried on shocker mounts, rather than _spring_ 
mounts where they were designed to go. The chasis mounts may seem beefy 
enough, but I have been told scare stories of bending/breaking them (seen 
no hard evidence though), and cracking welds off diff housing mounts is 
also a possibility. My other worry is that instead of spring loads being 
carried vertically through the axle's centre, the shocker would be 
placing an angled spring force along the shocker tube's centreline. This 
is from the vehicle's rear to front (going downwards) on the real ;)
driver's side (RHS), and from front to rear on the left hand side, as the 
shockers are on opposing sides of the axle housing on RRs (until the newie).
Might cause wierd stuff to happen to handling.
Just my thoughts, but seems to make some sense I think.

BTW the general layout of the Gabriels that I had was that of a regular 
Gas type shock absorber, but instead of a simple tubular shroud around 
the top section to hide the rod, there is an enlarged tubular section, 
enclosed at the top, and having a rubber air spring or air bag skirt 
sealing the outer surface of the shocker tube to the bottom of the 
shroud. This is completely separate to the shocker assembly. By 
pumping up or down the pressure in the air cavity, the effect is that of 
an adjustable air spring acting along the line of the shock- in short a 
ride height adjuster is exactly what it is, but I personally don't think 
that this is the 'right' place for one. Inside or parallel to the rear 
springs, however, is getting more like spot on.... One device I have seen 
around intrigued me, "Polyair Springs". At first I thought they were 
simply an airbag inside the spring, which bore load on its ends and hence 
helped the spring to have a higher "rate" when pumped up. This is not the 
case! The airbag expands inside the coil and hence immobilises to an 
extent those coils which it is in contact with. The spring "rate " of the 
affected area is increased, but the airbag need not even touch the top 
and bottom spring mounts. Trikky! I like it.

Cheapest, nastiest, most grass roots spring helper I have seen is to fill 
the inside of the springs with tennis balls! I'm serious! Worked great on 
my friend's homebrew trailer with RR suspension.

bfn 
BT.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 06:12:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Re: Them's the brakes

>  Mike Hoskins of Mid-America Rover in Kansas City, MO is working on
>  having backing plates made to fit Series Land Rovers.  These backing
>  plates will then use all-American wheel cylinders, shoes, and drums, etc
>  for heavy duty stopping power.  Contact Mike at his ph/fax 816-763-3797

    Call me strange, but I'd prefer to use stuff designed by Rover.  I'm
    obviously not trying to keep the vehicle "original" or anything,
    it's just that when it comes to something like brakes I'd much
    prefer to rely on the work of Rover's qualified engineers than on
    some aftermarket parts guy, no matter how serious a Rover
    enthusiast he might be.

    If I take the braking system from a Defender 90, say, or a Series
    III 88, I am using a braking system that has undergone extensive
    design and testing for use on a vehicle essentially identical to
    mine in terms of weight, weight balance, etc.  If I take the braking
    system from a Ford F-150 pickup, I'm just trying to beat the problem
    over the head with a big hammer and hoping it works.

    So while it sounds like I'm willing to hack up my vehicle and do
    anything with the brakes to make it stop better, I was actually
    trying to keep it within the confines of Land Rover brake design. 
    In other words, I'd like 1970, 1980, or 1990 Land Rover brakes on my
    1960 vehicle.

    Duncan

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: What Now????
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 10:48:02 GMT

Anyone (Bill?) know whats happening?
I suddenly find myself subscribed to the digest.I dont
*want* to be subscribed to the digest.I want to stay
on the real-time list,but does it still exist?
My crappy terminal wont *handle* the digest.
Cheez
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Vel Natarajan <nataraja@cig.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Petrol versus Batteries
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 06:42:09 -0500 (CDT)

>Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 09:56:47 -0700 (PDT)
>From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>The 35-40 year figure has been the one quoted since time immemorial; in 
>40 years from now there will still be a 40 year supply, just as there was 

This argument sounds like the evolution/creation debate.  Both sides
are right, and they have the facts to prove it!!!  :-)

Here's a conspiracy theory for ya...

I was in Dubai, UAE for work a few weeks back and was talking to one
of the locals (ok, an ex-pat, but only 20% of the population are true
locals).  We got on the subject of the oil economy, etc, and he said
that in the 70's many OPEC countries wanted to double or triple the
price of oil (I forget exactly how much.)  But the consultants they
hired told them that if they raised it beyond a certain point, that it
would drive the US to increase their research on alternative methods
of energy production because they had the capability to do it and
actually come up with methods in a reasonable amount of time which
would make them much less dependent on mid-east oil.  (something like
60% of US oil imports are from the mid-east) Instead, they came up
with a price which would maximize their profits but still keep it from
being "too expensive" for the US to drive it to come up with
alternative energy sources.

The above was scientifically discussed over a curry, so it's obviously
true.  Actually, I don't care if it is or not.  I just wanna drive my
Land Rover.

Let's talk about something less controversial like say, animal
testing. :-)

Vel
Solar/wind-powered '66 SWB (Petrol actually)

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Anti-skid wing tops?
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:56:16 UNDEFINED

>the same purpose.  Do people really stand up there?  How much weight will 
>a wing support?

I regularaly walk round on th wings, bonnt and roof of my 1985 90h/t. But I 
am told the later ones were made of thinner metal so as to reduce weight to 
increase performance, so I dont know if youd want to do it on a modern 
one.......

Non slip coating? Buy skateboard decking material from your local headcase 
shop.
>the same purpose.  Do people really stand up there?  How much weight will 

------------------------------

From: "David McKain" <MCKAIN@cemr.wvu.edu>
Date:          Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:06:28 EDT
Subject:       Used Land Rovers

Help me!
I'm still trying to find a few buyers for a lot of Series LR's in WV. 
I went out yesterday and took some pictures of the lot and will be 
posting them near the BRLRC home page 
(http://www.cemr.wvu.edu/~wwwatf/brlrc/help.html). There are six in 
the lot (1 SIIa 109, 2 SIIa 88's, 3 SIII 88's). All have varying 
degrees of frame rot and body damage but with a little TLC I believe 
that 3 could be sacraficed to make 3 excellent machines. Again, the 
big problem is that I cannot afford to purchase the lot but can 
afford to go in at least 1/3 on the bunch. Additionaly, there are a 
few spare axles and fuel tanks laying around. Please contact me if 
you're interested an take a look at the pictures. You wouldn't want 
to let these poor vehicles live out their lives in this condition now 
would you?

Take care,

David McKain
1966 SIIa Petrol
mckain@cemr.wvu.edu
(304) 599-0120
Morgantown, WV
USA                     

------------------------------

From: Treit Le <Treit_Le@apprise.com>
Date: 25 Oct 95  9:10:19 
Subject: Land Rover New Car extended warranty

Does anyone recommend this? Is it the same as the 42K miles warranty, but 
extended to 100K miles? Is this a good idea on a '95 Classic?

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject:  Stutterin' speedos
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 13:17:46 UNDEFINED

>The stuttering speedo has returned.  The speedo jumps around *but* the 
>odometer works just fine at the same time.  If I stop and restart, most 
>likely the speedo behaves normally.  Given these symptoms, the cable/sheath 
>and nut tightness on the output shaft seem to be fine...the problem has to 
>be in the speedo head.

Are you sure about this? Mine stuttered wildly and inconstantly for about 
10000miles before the cable snapped........Sometimes the ends of thee broken 
cable would drive OK, sometimes they skipped leading to the stutter, 
eventually they did sod-all.

>  OK, the question: has anyone ever taken one apart?  

Make SURE it's not just the cable first...........

>A while back, I pulled it out, but dismantling the device seemed a tad to 
>difficult - plus I couldn't figure out a non-damaging way to open it up.  I 
>settled for spraying some WD-40 into it (which worked for about 4 months).  

Ah. OK. Maybe it IS the head. But perhaps someone else's cable might be on the 
way out, so seeing as I've typed all this garbage..........

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 15:03:13 +0100
From: Michael Turpin <ccaamet@ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: Buying an old(er) Range Rover

A colleage here is looking at a 1981 Range Rover with a view to buying, what
are the main trouble spots he should look out for?  I have owned a 110 for
around 18 months now and have passed on the little knowledge I have.

Any advice gratefully received.

Mike

2.5d 110 SW

____________________________________________________________________________

                        Michael Turpin
                        Network Operations Section,
                        Network Group,
                        Information Systems Division,
                        Kathleen Lonsdale Building,
                        University College London,
                        Gower Street,
                        WC1E 6BT.

E-Mail: m.turpin@ucl.ac.uk                            Tel: 0171-380-7828

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 25 Oct 95 10:16:10 EDT
Subject: Turn Signal wheels - availability?

Anybody got a good source for the damned little rubber wheel in the turn signal 
assembly? DAP and RN denied all knowledge, and Signal-Stat refused to even 
admit they made the silly thing.....8*)

I'm getting to the pint I'm going to rip apart an old turntable for the puck 
wheel in it and use THAT....

     aj"Manual turn signals give me tennis elbow"r

------------------------------

From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:49:05 -0700
Subject: Series: Removing the front exhaust pipe

Hey all,

Anyone have a method for removing the front exhaust pipe from the manifold? 
Vehicle in question is a '66 IIa 88. My best guess so far is to use a really 
long extension on a 1/ 4" socket and get it from the bottom.

This is my other pipe from Atlantic British that the PO installed. The rear 
pipe rusted through last winter after only two years. Instead, I bought 
genuine pipes from RN. After 8 months, the rear pipe is only now beginning to 
show some rust.

Thanks,

Tim
---
Tim Harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------

From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 15:56:01 +0001
Subject: Nasty scratch

Yesterday 24 october 95 while parking on a parkin place near the office I
hit a little iron-picket, wich resulted in a nasty 10 cm wide scratch, at
knee height, in my front left door of my 4 weeks old Discovery 8-(. I had
seen this dammned little picket and was just manoeuvring to get arround that
little #$%. While turning the steering wheel the body rolled a little from
one side to the other wich resulted in hitting the picket. 
  Well there is also one good thing about this accident. I can now take the
Discovery to the full extend off-road :-) ( as far as possible in a flat
country like The Netherlands )

If I have this repaired profesionally and have the assurance pay for it,
it'll cost me a lot of no-claim. Any suggestions for repairing this myself?

P.S. The doors are aluminum! :-} I'm now waiting for someone willing to
discover the strength of the side impact bar on the left sidedoor, though ;-}

Thanks,

Roy Wassili, a '95 scarved Discovery
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Roy Wassili, system manager      Phone : (+31)205663501
Academic Medical Center,         Fax   : (+31)206091271  
the University of Amsterdam      e-mail: wassili@amc.uva.nl
Lung function dept. C2-434                                
1105 AZ AMSTERDAM
The Netherlands

      8-) The Jeep may be famous, the Landrover is legendary (-8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:34:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ray Harder <ccray@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Turn Signal wheels - availability?

On 25 Oct 1995, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote:
> Subject: Turn Signal wheels - availability?
x
> Anybody got a good source for the damned little rubber wheel in the turn signal 
x
> assembly? DAP and RN denied all knowledge, and Signal-Stat refused to even 
x
> admit they made the silly thing.....8*)
> I'm getting to the pint I'm going to rip apart an old turntable for the puck 

x
> wheel in it and use THAT....
> I'm getting to the pint I'm going to rip apart an old turntable for the puck 
let us know if you have success.  i went down the same path 6 months
ago w/ no luck.  i finally bought a used unit for $25 US and am using
that.  installation of a different unit requires the dash plate to
be removed -- a rubber wheel relpacement would be easier IMHO...

Ray Harder -- 61 SIIa 88.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 08:53:36 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Them's the brakes

In message <199510250151.UAA05799@butler.uk.stratus.com> Duncan Brown writes:

Dear Despertly seeking friction:
;
>     Looking for the collective wisdom on brake options for my Series II
>     88.
snip
>     Now that I have so much go-power (thanks to Turner engineering and
>     an overdrive) I'm getting concerned about stop-power again.
snip
;
The obvious answer is that you want to duplicate the brake system of a late IIA 
or series III 88.  Looks like you did it.  You can ether get a front left wing 
from one of the formentioned cars or cut your up for clearence.  I cut mine 
using measurments I gathered from a series III.

You will need to elongate the hole in the bulkhead for the brake pedal.  He 
mounting holes match up but the pedal is hinged differently and will require you
to cut the slot a little liwer.

There is a bracket on the bulkhead that the rear of the wing bolts to.  It has 
two welded nuts on it.  You will need to cut half of the top of the bracket off 
for clutch master cylinder clearence.

On the 88, the front master cylinder goes to the front brakes.  

>     Is there a better wheel cylinder setup I should move to?  I can just
;     change backing plates and do something different.  Would a 109
>     braking setup work better? 
;
The 109 front brakes are larger with more braking area and have two wheel 
cylinders per side.  You can swap them by replacing back plates outward.  The 
six cylinder 109 has still more brake surface but the parts are a little harder 
to come by and a little more expensive.

If you decide to go with the 109 front brakes you will need a 109 master brake 
cylinder and a PDWA (no mechanical linkage between front & rear circuits so uses
PDWA to cut off open circuit).  The 109 master brake cylinder is identifiable by
having a larger diameter for the rear circuit.  The 88 master cylinder is the 
same diameter front to rear.  For the 109, the rear cylinder goes to the front 
brakes..  When you order master cylinder & PDWA specify 1984 109 and you will 
get the correct parts.  This works fine with earlier 109 wheel cylinders and the
earlier power brake booster & pedistal.
;
;     Even better (albeit more expensive!) is there a disc brake setup
;     that bolts on in place of the drums that fits the older Series
;     axles?  Or let's get really crazy: can one weld leaf spring mounts
;     to newer axles and use them on Series vehicles?
;
There is at least one person I know who put coil spring dront & rear axles & 
suspension on a series car.  Took a bit of welding & a little engineering.  He 
has a disk brake coil sprung 88 that has wheel articulation that would make a 
D90 envious.  Know another person who put an 88 body on a Range Rover shasis, 
suspension & drive train.  Most impressive 88 series II Range Rover

So I guess you can do just about anything your compitent to engineer and build.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:47:01 -0700
From: cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese)
Subject: new member, new Discovery, and some comments

It's time I introduced myself as a new member, since I bought my '95 beluga
black Discovery two whole weeks ago, on Columbus Day (perhaps that's
appropriate somehow.) I am, of course, very pleased. Reading the posts here
has been great fun, especially compared with the Audi Quattro list to which
I used to subscribe. On that one, most of the posts were of the "my car's
broken again--I don't care if I continue driving it or not, but how do I fix
it?" sort. On the Land Rover list everyone seems genuinely to love their
vehicles. I'm happy to be here.

Perhaps I can already make a contribution. On 10/25, Treit Le asked for
comments on dealers' extended warranties:

>Does anyone recommend this? Is it the same as the 42K miles warranty, but 
>extended to 100K miles? Is this a good idea on a '95 Classic?

When I bought my Discovery, I was offered some sort of extended warranty for
$2000. I declined it, guessing that anything the dealer stuck on the deal
(e.g., the $450 "granitized glaze" I wouldn't pay for either) would be
overpriced. I talked with my credit union the same day, and they offered me
a comparable extended warranty for under $1000. Enough said.

Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office

------------------------------

From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com
Subject: re: interesting news
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 9:36:07 PDT

>I just read the most recent Popular Science (sep 95) and it had a listing of
>various manufacturer/model changes upcoming. For Discovery, there is a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>probably will say BMW on the block, and will have electric mirrors, windows
>and so on.

This is really news to me! Regarding the D90, are you saying that they'll
sell a 6 cylinder Defender 90 here in the U.S., with the same body style
and all? Or is this an entirely new car? Does it say what model year it
will be introduced? What about the price?

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Peng                                     (408)765-7863
Intel Corporation
Design Technology, Physical CAD
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 12:46:46 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: wench...er...winches

          Greetings.
          I have the opportunity to buy a used Warn 8000#
          winch, doesn't power out, with cable remote. What
          do I look for to make sure its ok? I suppose I can
          hook it up to a battery and watch it run, but is
          there anything else to look for?
          Thanks
          Dave
          SIII swb "Green Car"
          dbobeck@ushmm.org

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:32:39 -0700
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: Ignition lock sticking

I've occasionally had the same problem on my '88 RR.  It happens when the 
steering wheel is not locked, but nevertheless I've noticed recently that if 
I jiggle the wheel the lock frees up.

-Matt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:39:58 -0700
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: Safari Gard phone numbers

For info, call 909-698-6114 (Riverside area), for orders call 800-820-GARD.

-Matt

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 25 Oct 95 13:39:02 EDT
Subject: Re: wench...er...winches

First of all, don't steal my straight lines. <grin>

Secondly, if you can get a look at the gear lube check its condition. If the 
gearsare bad you'll see crud in the oil. Listen to it run also. A noisy 
geartrain is a good reason to stay away. 

Finally, look at the condition of the cable and hook. If they're really chewed 
up it's not expensive to replace but could indicate the unit was abused. Dings 
in the outer casing say the same thing.

A question too:

When you say it doesn't power out, are you saying it's defective or was it 
designed that way? I thought only Bellview was that crazy.....

     Al Richer

          Greetings.
          I have the opportunity to buy a used Warn 8000#
          winch, doesn't power out, with cable remote. What
          do I look for to make sure its ok? I suppose I can
          hook it up to a battery and watch it run, but is
          there anything else to look for?
          Thanks
          Dave
          SIII swb "Green Car"
          dbobeck@ushmm.org
 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:46:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: re: interesting news

On Wed, 25 Oct 1995 rpeng@cadev6.intel.com wrote:

> This is really news to me! Regarding the D90, are you saying that they'll
> sell a 6 cylinder Defender 90 here in the U.S., with the same body style
> and all? Or is this an entirely new car? Does it say what model year it
> will be introduced? What about the price?

>From what I've seen in various magazines, it's a totally different model,
scheduled for 1997. It doesn't replace the Defender, but I imagine the
D-90 will no longer be seen on the left side of the pond due to the 
various problems and expense of meeting ever more restrictive safety 
regulations.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Stutterin' speedos
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 16:58:00 GMT

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)]
> Ah. OK. Maybe it IS the head. But perhaps someone else's cable might be on the 
> way out, so seeing as I've typed all this garbage..........
I may be wrong,but I dont think you are supposed to lubricate the
unit at all.Spraying the thing with WD40 would stop its wobbler,
but was it subsequently reading the correct speed?
Its easy enough to get the glass off,and the dial/guts out of the
case,but I for one have never managed to see anything wrong with one
yet!With one exception,and that was when excess oil/grease worked its
way up the cable into the head and semi-gummed up the works.If I
remember correctly,I washed the thing out with meths and a fine brush,
veeery carefully,put it back and it worked better,but not perfectly.
FWIW I'm an even bigger menace with clocks.Do they really *need* al
those little cogs and things?
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Bits for SII(a?)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 14:29:00 GMT

You got the famous ankle burner heater as well?
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 14:08:39 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: wench...er...winches

First of all, don't steal my straight lines. <grin> Assuming you mean on
ASCII art. There aren't that many ways to make 'em! I thought my ~~~~~~~~~'s
were pretty original.  Sorry.
Secondly, if you can get a look at the gear
lube check its condition. If the gearsare bad you'll see crud in the oil.
Listen to it run also.  A noisy geartrain is a good reason to stay away.

Is there a filler plug or something?
 Finally, look at the condition of the
cable and hook. If they're really chewed up it's not expensive to replace
but could indicate the unit was abused.  Dings in the outer casing say the
same thing.
 The owner said something about maybe needing new cable.  A
question too:

When you say it doesn't power out, are you saying it's defective or was it 
designed that way? I thought only Bellview was that crazy.....

     Al Richer
I believe it was designed that way. I hope... I wonder if you have a good
point there. Maybe I could call Warn to see if they ever made one that just
freespooled out. Do you have a number for Warn by any chance?

          Greetings.
          I have the opportunity to buy a used Warn 8000#
          winch, doesn't power out, with cable remote. What
          do I look for to make sure its ok? I suppose I can
          hook it up to a battery and watch it run, but is
          there anything else to look for?
          Thanks
          Dave
          SIII swb "Green Car"
          dbobeck@ushmm.org

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 25 Oct 95 14:15:02 EDT
Subject: Re: Re[2]: wench...er...winches

First of all, don't steal my straight lines. <grin> Assuming you mean on
ASCII art. There aren't that many ways to make 'em! I thought my ~~~~~~~~~'s
were pretty original.  Sorry.

 I meant the wenching joke....relax....8*)

>Is there a filler plug or something?

There should be, in the side with the gears, unless it's built into the motor
itself, then it may be grease-packed. My Bellview is oil-bath....

>Do you have a number for Warn by any chance?

Sorry, can't help. 1-800-555-1212 might - I believe they have an 800 #

   Later, ajr

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 11:47:30 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: wench...er...winches

>           Greetings.
;           I have the opportunity to buy a used Warn 8000#
>           winch, doesn't power out, with cable remote. What
;           do I look for to make sure its ok? I suppose I can
>           hook it up to a battery and watch it run, but is
;           there anything else to look for?
>           Thanks
;           Dave
>           SIII swb "Green Car"
;           dbobeck@ushmm.org

The older winches only reeled in and only went out by freespooling.  The newer 
winches winch both ways.  People have converted the older style for 2 way 
winching.  You take the motor to a motor shop and have them isolate the windings
from the enclosure.  The early winches had one terminal and used the winch 
casing as the return path.  Once the motor is isolated and you have two 
terminals to plug into, you need four car solinoids to act as a switch to change
the polarity of the power going to the winch so that it can spoll in or out 
dependinging upon the soliniod settings (polarity).

TeriAnn

With "The Green Rover" (named 1978) not to be confused with something called the
green car

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 12:02:39 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: interesting news

In message <199510251748.MAA07032@butler.uk.stratus.com> John Brabyn writes:

> >From what I've seen in various magazines, it's a totally different model,
; scheduled for 1997. It doesn't replace the Defender, but I imagine the
> D-90 will no longer be seen on the left side of the pond due to the 
; various problems and expense of meeting ever more restrictive safety 
> regulations.
; 
> Cheers
; 
> John Brabyn
> 89RR
;
Its my current guess that the 500 stationwagon configured D90s to be delivered 
delivered in late '95 will be the last of the Defenders for the US.  50 D110s 
and 3000 D90s  is the entire pool of new land Rovers for North America.

They will continue selling the new bodied Range Rovers, and the Discoverys.  It 
is my understanding that the 1997 car will be the Odin project car.  A very 
cheap (or at least designed to be inexpensive to build) small (throwaway ie 
unibody) car about the size of the baby 4X4s.  If the drawings I have seen are 
remotely accurate, you might be able to see some slight resembulance to a 
discovery (on a dark and foggy night with no moon) but it will look very 
different from the defender or series Land Rover.  It suspect that Odin, like 
the Discovery and new Range Rover will have minimal ground clearence.

It might be interested in watching the used US spec D90 prices over time.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 15:28:49 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[4]: wench...er...winches

First of all, don't steal my straight lines. <grin> Assuming you mean on
ASCII art. There aren't that many ways to make 'em! I thought my ~~~~~~~~~'s
were pretty original.  Sorry.

 I meant the wenching joke....relax....8*)
I made that up too! I AM relaxed.

>Is there a filler plug or something?

There should be, in the side with the gears, unless it's built into the motor
itself, then it may be grease-packed. My Bellview is oil-bath....
Mmm. Oil bath. Sounds nice. Must leave one hell of a ring
          aroung the tub.

>Do you have a number for Warn by any chance?

Sorry, can't help. 1-800-555-1212 might - I believe they have an 800 #
They can. Called Warn (1-800-522-9276) and the fellow there
    told me they haven't made a winch like the one I
          described in 22 years... hence no parts.  So if
          it's really clean then maybe it's worth it,
          otherwise I'm going to pass.

   Thanks
          Dave

------------------------------

Date: 25 Oct 95 18:15:05 EDT
From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com>
Subject: Ring Gear Bolts

A couple months ago, there was a thread about replacing/retorquing the bolts
on a ring gear, after the half shaft has broken. Now that I have broken a
shaft, I can't remember if the suggestion was to replace the bolts or whether
they just needed to be retorqued. I would appreciate it, if some one could
refreshen my memory, and I promise that I will write it down this time :)

     -------------------
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|
   |     |   ###   |     |      1972 SerIII 88
   |     | ####### |     |      1990 RangeRover
   |_____|_#######_|_____|
  [_______________________]
     |\/|           |\/|

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 25-Oct-1995

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 19:40:10 -0400
Subject: Series lll  Hand Throttle

I have a hand throttle kit and looking at the installation instructions along
with a rather large bag of assorted "Stuff" which came with it , well..the
job looks little intimidating.  Is it really that bad?? anybody else out
there who has installed this thing.. ? Looking for a little friendly
advice......

                                                                       Thanks
          Steve      WA2GMC

                                                                           72
Series lll  88

                                                                          "To
the edge and back"

------------------------------

From: lvale@telepac.pt (Luis Vale)
Subject: Faulty Gear Box on Discovery
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:56:55 GMT

Hi.

I own a Discovery since September 94. I've always noticed some strange noises
coming from the gear box.

Finally my dealer decided I was right and they are going to change the primary
shaft of the gear box (two weeks waiting for parts :-(( )

I've heard a rumour about a acknowledged problem with gearboxes, and LR would be
replacing from a determined series manufactured a year ago.

Anyone heard this rumour?? Can anyone confirm this??

Best regards

Luis Vale
lvale@telepac.pt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 18:33:59 -0400
From: Matt Neibaur <matt@jax.gttw.com>
Subject: '69 Series 88 for sale

Land Rover Fans,

I met a man yesterday that was selling his Series 88 '69 Land Rover.  It is
a twelve speed 4WD.  Restored worth $14,500.  Asking $12,500.  The owner
lives in Waynsville, North Carolina.
Call Geoff Allison at (704) 926-3114.

Please don't email me since I have no more information.

matt@jax.gttw.com (Matt Neibaur)

------------------------------

Date: 25 Oct 95 21:16:56 EDT
From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: Heater plugs

Steve writes asking about heater plug failures
 First check the resistor that is in series with the plugs.  Check that you have
a good earth connection on the last plug.
 Over 25 years of diesel  ownership I have found that it is not a good idea to
mix new and old heater plugs, I found out the expensive way that new plugs mixed
with old fail easily.
  I suggest that you buy a complete new set and replace the lot. Keep the old
ones and use them in a few years time when the new ones have become old and
start to fail.  I think that the new ones probably have a different resistance
to the old ones. 
 I believe I have read somewhere of a parallel wired heater set up modification

   regards  Bill Leacock  Limey in exile.

------------------------------

Date: 25 Oct 95 21:17:02 EDT
From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: 2 or 2A

Bill C.
  the Oct 1961 service newsletter introduced the ser 2a  numbering system. The
revised system has 8 numbers and a suffix letter starting with a, the first
three digits represent the vehicle type, ie 241  to 245 ser 2a 88 petrols, 251
to 255 ser 2a 109 ' petrols, 261to 265 - 109 petrol station wagons, 271to 275 -,
88 diesels, 276 to 180 -  109 diesels , 281 to 285 109 diesel station wagons.
 ser 2  vehicle numbers consisted of 9 digits.

 The first number in the series ie 241 is home rhd, the second  number in the
series is export rhd, the third number is ckd rh, 4 th number export lhd, 5 th
number  ckd lhd etc.
 ser 2a introduced the 2 1/4 diesel and the common cylinder block etc with the
2a petrol A new Lucasised wiring harness was introduced with the 2a. and a
revised wiper motor.
 From the above you should be able to identify 2 or 2A

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 21:39:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: 12-speed?

> I met a man yesterday that was selling his Series 88 '69 Land Rover.  It is
> a twelve speed 4WD.  Restored worth $14,500.  Asking $12,500.  The owner
> lives in Waynsville, North Carolina.
> Call Geoff Allison at (704) 926-3114.

    Oh please oh please let there be someone on this list who lives
    close enough to go check it out.  We need to know The Rest Of The
    Story on this one!  12 speed?  "Worth $14,500, asking $12,500"???

    This is gonna be priceless...

    Duncan

------------------------------

Subject: re: D90 problems
From: "William E. Skidmore" <skidmore@mail02.mitre.org>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 22:51:18 -0400

Roger;

I would like to say that I do a heck of a lot, but reason prevails - you don't 
rack up 39k miles in < 1-1/2 years going overland on a recreational basis.  
The bulk was offroad, Northern Virginia style - I95, I66 and secondary road 
construction zones.  This translates into very long, very boring commutes over 
less-than ideal surfaces.

The offroading that I have done has been overland, fire trails, beaches (incl 
NJ Pine Barrens), or the like. Nothing outrageous.  No real reason for the 
shaft to fail.

BTW, found out from dealer that that particular part, FTC 4188, is 
backordered.  They are pulling them off the assembly line to satisfy demand, 
and three people are waiting ahead of me to get one! Does this imply a 
systemic problem?

Bill

>Regarding your D90 problems:
>  Do you do any serious offroading with your vehicle?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>Design Technology, Physical CAD
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 20:10:11 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: 12-speed?

Duncan Brown <DB@cho004.cho.ge.com> writes:
>>   Matt Neibaur <matt@jax.gttw.com> writes:
     I met a man yesterday that was selling his Series 88 '69 Land Rover.
     It is a twelve speed 4WD.  Restored worth $14,500.  Asking $12,500.
     The owner lives in Waynsville, North Carolina.
     Call Geoff Allison at (704) 926-3114.
>        Oh please oh please let there be someone on this list who lives
         close enough to go check it out.  We need to know The Rest Of The
         Story on this one!  12 speed?  "Worth $14,500, asking $12,500"???
         This is gonna be priceless...

 12 Speed?  Not so far fetched...  4 speeds forward, overdrive, and reverse
 =6 x high/low =12 Speeds!!!  [Common misinterpretation :]

 As to $14.5 K, I think Charles Kellog has a few of these in the Pacific
 Northwest USA.  Take a look at Hemmings Motor News lately??  Of course it
 could also be a D-90 masquerading with a '69 IIA 88 tag.  OOppps!! Did I
 say something...

                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 20:23:22 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: 20-speed!! (Was: 12-speed?)

Earlier I wrote:
>    12 Speed?  Not so far fetched...  4 speeds forward, overdrive, and
     reverse =6 x high/low =12 Speeds!!!  [Common misinterpretation :]

 Actually, a four speed box with high/low = 8 forward speeds, plus
 overdrive = 16 forward speeds, then, reverse with high/low and overdrive
 = 4 reverse speeds, or 20 total speed combinations.  Since many overlap
 the owner is being too humble by advertising ONLY 12 speeds!!!!  q%)

                          ______
 Michael Carradine        [__[__\==                     Rumpole of the Bay
 510-988-0900             [________]                        Land-Rover 4x4
 cs@crl.com  ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^  '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88)
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:32:05 -0400
Subject: Subject: Range Rover Power Door Locks

I have been having problems with my '89 Range Rover power door lock acuators.
 Is it possible to repair them?  They are close to $100 at the dealer.  Does
anyone know of a low cost supplier? Thanks

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:33:42 -0400
Subject: Subject: Squealing Brakes

>Any tricks to limiting the brake squealing?

I have used a product made by Lucas Girling for many years on my BMW's and on
my Range Rover.  I don't know the exact name for it.  What it is are four
adhesive backed very thin pieces of metal (looks and feels like a soft
aluminum alloy).  They stick to the back of each brake pad.  I trim them to
fit with sheet metal shears.  I have used the anti-squeal goop in the past,
but these have worked better for me.  Most foreign auto parts stores here in
California sell them.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 20:50:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Slade <slade@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: 12-speed?

Speaking of Charles Kellog....

I happened to be up there yesterday just to check out what he had to 
offer, and I would say that if any of his vehicles were in the 12-14K 
price range that you were getting a steal!  Try about 3-4 times that 
much.  I was flabbergasted.  He even tried to charge me for a price 
list.  Sheeze!

But, to his credit, they sure look pretty!

I could say more but I think you get the picture.

Lter,

Michael

-Still looking for his 109-

slade@teleport.COM  Public Access User -- Not affiliated with Teleport
Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-1016 (2400-28800, N81)

------------------------------

From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 00:09:43 -0400
Subject: Re: '69 Series 88 for sale

In a message dated 95-10-25 21:37:57 EDT, you write:

>I met a man yesterday that was selling his Series 88 '69 Land Rover.  It is
>a twelve speed 4WD.  Restored worth $14,500.  Asking $12,500.  The owner
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>lives in Waynsville, North Carolina.
>Call Geoff Allison at (704) 926-3114.

This may very well be one of Leroy Harrells 're-do's'........Harrell Motor
Sales in Waynesville was one of the leading dealers of the Series vehicles in
the 'old days'.  After the cease of Series importing Leroy stayed on in
business servicing, buying and reselling Rovers that he had previously sold
brand new.    Very respected facility.   Most Rovers in the Carolinas likely
came from or have been through Harrells at one time.   Leroys chief mechanic,
Ted,  has been there more than 40 (Yes, forty) years.   Decent Rover burial
ground out back with several skeletons laying about.   Leroy routinely asks
for *and gets*  $11000 to 14000 for 88" Series vehicles.   Haven't seen a
109" there recently to price.   Last time I was there the only rolling stock
was a 66 Pick Up,  Green with Limestone trim.   Very decent shape,  for
$12,500.    Leroy is very elderly now but a helluva nice guy and a fountain
of information and Rovers stories.    Drop by sometime.   Just thought you
folks might wanna know.   (I'm not familiar with the particular vehicle in
question or the owner/seller. )
Rick Crider
Monroe  NC
66  Slla,  109"     'Hugo'........and for sale..............
73  Slll,    88"      'Jesse'
88  Range Rover......the daily mule.....

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Nasty scratch
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 19:00:18 -0700

+ Yesterday 24 october 95 while parking on a parkin place near the office I
+ hit a little iron-picket, wich resulted in a nasty 10 cm wide scratch, at
+ knee height, in my front left door of my 4 weeks old Discovery 8-(. I had
+ seen this dammned little picket and was just manoeuvring to get around that
+ little #$%. While turning the steering wheel the body rolled a little from
+ one side to the other wich resulted in hitting the picket.

Sounds like a good excuse to put diamond plate panels on the bottom part of the 
door. Then go ahead and smack those pickets to your heart's content!

+ Well there is also one good thing about this accident. I can now take the
+ Discovery to the full extend off-road :-) ( as far as possible in a flat
+ country like The Netherlands )

In the Netherlands, wouldn't a snorkel attachement greatly increase these 
off-road opportunities? :-)

    _____
   /___|_\___     Bob Watson <a-robw@microsoft.com>
  |   |   |  \                  6405 235th Place SW
  |---|___|___\____     Mountlake Terrace, WA 98043
  |  _|   |   | _  }\
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/

/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 21:38:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John C. White III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Nasty scratch

Is this really a 10 cm WIDE scratch or a 10 cm long scratch, and did it 
go all the way through the layers of paint primer to the metal?  If it's 
10 cm long and didn't hit metal you can probably get away with just using 
touch up paint available from your dealership.  I should probably add 
that scratches on a Rover are like scars from sports injuries in my 
opinion.  One wears them with pride.  If on the other hand the scratch is 
severe (10 cm wide and/or through the layers of paint and primer) I would 
eat the cost and have the dealer repair it, especially since your Rover 
is so new.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery with off-road scratches
San Francisco, California

On Wed, 25 Oct 1995 wassili@AMC.UVA.NL wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> Yesterday 24 october 95 while parking on a parkin place near the office I
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 34 lines)]
> The Netherlands
>       8-) The Jeep may be famous, the Landrover is legendary (-8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 00:34:51
Subject: Re: Metric Land Rovers
From: David Bartlett <bartlett@hlalapansi.win-uk.net>

OK folks, this seems to be a really sensitive subject. I don't want
to start any flame wars here. Allow me one response, before I drop
the subject. (I will be happy to take it up off-line if anyone
wants.) 

Mike Rooth wrote. 
>Point one,you may have noticed that my post was a *reply*.
>Two,you do not state *why* you consider the SI system to
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>if there is such a thing,I would point out that "archaic"
>is better applied to the metric system than to imperial.

Yes when I say metric I really refer to the SI system. I agree the
"metric" system is archaic. If I recall the system originally
introduced as "metric" dates back to the 18th century, and the only
thing going for it was that multiples of 10 were used.  However, it
was replaced by the "mks" system something like 90 years ago. The SI
system is, however, much more recent and more clearly thought out
and constructed. (about 1960) 

What I like about the SI system is that it is constructed from only
7 basic units, with the others being derived from them. To
accommodate ranges of size for each unit there is a neat set of
multipliers defined which simply prefix the unit. The prefixes are
the same for all units. It is actually pretty neat. But I'm sure
you know all this. 

>Suffice it to say,that one of the "advantages" I have found
>with metrication,is that I have had to buy,separately,Whit
>sockets to replace the metric ones in my set.And that replacement
>bolts for the 11A are somewhat more difficult to obtain.And that

I have to admit that I guard my old Whitworth tools jealously. The
recent imposition of metrication in the UK was not what caused these
to be scarce and expensive. Basically I don't think that this
argument is really and truly directed against the SI system, as
much as the act of having it *imposed* through legislation. In the
engineering industry (including most of the motor industry) metric
parts have been used for years by manufacturers, and no legislation
was necessary to force them to do so. On this score I agree
wholeheartedly with Mike, and the others who have commented :-
imposing legislation that curbs one's freedom is objectionable.
However, taking this emotion of the discussion, I think that the SI
system is better than the old imperial one. Look at things
objectively and let me know if I am wrong. 
 
David.

=========================================================
bartlett@hlalapansi.win-uk.net                    at home

------------------------------

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