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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 20:35:55 +1000
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: vertical winching

It is possible, a good winch has enough pull:
several years ago there was mag' article
which included a piece about a Diahatsu (?) with
elec' winch hauling itself up a tree as a stunt.

Lloyd

------------------------------

From: "Gerald" <g@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 08:16:26 -0400
Subject: Discovery transmission and roof racks

I'm close to buying a 96 Discovery. Most of its driving will be
taking me to work and back. It will also haul a small boat sometimes.
Its off-road use will probably be mostly dirt roads (with whatever
snow ever returns to the northeast U.S.) after trips on divided 
highways to get there.

Automatic vs. manual: The gear ratios for 1st are 3.32:1 for manual 
and 2.48:1 for auto. I've seen such differences on other cars. Can 
someone explain the significance? Reverse is the lowest gear on the 
manual (3.56:1) but not on the auto (2.09:1). What is the 
significance of such a low reverse in the manual? I am missing 
something with the relatively higher ratio in the auto?

Roof capacity: The specs for the various roof racks I have seen show 
a limit of 110 lbs/50 kilos capacity? I figured on being able to 
sleep up there under rare circumstances. Seems I'll be sleeping 
inside instead. Why such a low limit?

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: 15 Oct 95 09:38:02 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: '95/'96 D90 HT

> So if the HT is bolted to the frame does that mean it's removable?

*Everything* is removable on a Defender...

------------------------------

From: Q234@aol.com
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 10:37:23 -0400
Subject: Have I made a mistake?

I bought a 1971 LR 88 SeriesII on 10/12/95. On 10/13/95 (Friday), the main
gear shift 
broke off. It's stuck in 1st gear!!!!

Help!

I'm sure I can get the new lever installed but I'm more concerned about why
it broke off. 
Is this a sign of things to come? 

------------------------------

Subject: early lightweight coming up for sale
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 09:21:30 -0500

>From sources that are usuually quite reliable I hear that a very early 
production lightweight may be coming up for sale. It is in imaculate 
condition with a lot of history attached to it.

I'll tell more as things become clearer.

Robin

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 08:22:16 -0700
From: Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.) <grea@net.gov.bc.ca>
Subject: Subject: Re: Het Shields and Vapour Lock or is it?

>Has anyone ever tried the transistor heat shields that we Ham Radio types 
>use?  The could be attached with the special heat transfer cement used on 
>electrical assemblies and they are aluminum and have fins.  If no one 
>responds, I will try it and because it won't get hot here for another 9 
>months of good skating, I will report next summer. 
I don't think that this will work for the following:
Transistors create heat internally and use the heat sheilds to dissipate
the heat quickly to the cooler ambient temperature. The opposite 
is the case with the caburator. The heat shield would be absorbing
heat from the manifold and transfering to the cooler float bowl.
This would be a good setup for the winter but wouldn't stop 
vapour lock in the summer.
g.

------------------------------

From: mtzphil@vax.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 17:37:43 BST
Subject: Disco brakes

I own a 1990 pre-ABS Disco.
Robert Watson writes:
I doubt you could lock up the tires (with ABS somehow disabled of course)...

Oh yes you can.

Phil Taylor
1990 V8 Disco
1973 Lt/wt

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 14:33:48 EDT
From: trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu (Tom Rowe)
Subject: Vertical winching (The Gods must be...)

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On 14 Oct 95 12:22:27 EDT Stefan wrote:

>>I recall my favorite scene in "The gods must be crazy" where the fellow
>>winched his rover up a tree accidently.
>>Could I do that?  :-)
>You know, I was always wondering whether anyone ever tried to copy that
>stunt... :-))

I believe it was Warn winch that quite some years back, used that very
stunt to advertize their 8274. Had a jeep hanging from a tree limb as
I recall.

Tom Rowe
UW Center for Dairy Research
Madison, WI 53706	| Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
wk 608-265-6194	| in places even more inaccessible
hm 608-243-8660

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 09:32:36 -0700
From: Rod Ernouf <ree@earthlink.net>
Subject: (no subject)

HELP!

How do you enter the 4 digit code to activate the Range Rover 
radio with computer theft protection?  I have the code but don't 
have the owner's manual for the radio.

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: Re: Have I made a mistake?
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 14:14:26 -0600 (MDT)

Q234 writes:
 I bought a 1971 LR 88 SeriesII on 10/12/95. On 10/13/95 (Friday), the main
 gear shift  broke off. It's stuck in 1st gear!!!!
 I'm sure I can get the new lever installed but I'm more concerned about why
 it broke off.  Is this a sign of things to come? 

I assume your shifter broke at the base.  It's a notorious stress point, 
and prone to breaking on Rovers.  I know a guy whose shifter broke 3 
times.  I have a 1966, and mine finally broke 3 years ago.  I welded it 
back, and a couple of months ago put a new one on.  Some people say an 
old welded one is stronger than an original.

A sign of things to come?  Your car is simply of an age when old parts 
wear out.  I know another guy whose 1970 88" is stocked with parts, 
anticipating every possible breakage.  That's not to say Rovers are weak 
or poorly built.  The original lasts longer than most vehicles, and even 
unmechanical people like me can do much of the parts replacement in the 
field.  (That's what LRs were made for.)

T. F. Mills
tomills@du.edu                               University of Denver Library
http://www.du.edu/~tomills                          Denver  CO 80208  USA

------------------------------

Date: 15 Oct 95 16:32:37 EDT
From: "Lee S. Underwood" <71603.3051@compuserve.com>
Subject: Disco Leg Room (was CU report on Disco)

On Sat, Oct 14 James Mobley wrote:

 "I find the seats to be fairly comfortable. I'm 6'3" and never have enough
leg room"

 James, did you really mean to say that the seats are comfortable, but there
is is *not* enough leg room?  It doesn't seem like this is a major problem for
you, since you don't elaborate and didn't put it in the "faults" section. I'm
6'4" (36" inseam) and have been thinking about a Discovery, but have some
concerns about the leg room (tests drives are not long enough to tell).

 Thanks

 Lee
 Greenville, SC

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 17:21:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rick Grant <rgrant@synapse.net>
Subject: SII Brake questions

After solving a host of problems with our 1959 SII in preparation for its
Ontario safety check test I pulled the drums for a look at the brakes and
I'm puzzled.  Both the Haynes and shop manuals say the SWB II's are fitted
with identical front and rear brakes but on mine the rear brakes seem to be
set up differently.  On the front, the top spring connects to holes in both
shoes, but on the rear the spring connects from one shoe to what looks to be
the adjuster.  The manual diagrams are not clear enough to figure out which
is correct.  Neither are the manuals any help in sorting out the adjusters.
The ones on the front just don't seem to be doing much of anything and in
fact one won't tighten down the shoes at all.

During this puzzling journey I found that the rear brakes are badly
contaminated and at the least I will have to replace the wheel cylinder
seals.  But will I also have to replace the shoes?  They look to be quite
recent although they're near dead black because of all the junk.  Although
one of the brakes has perceptible leakage from the dust caps the other
doesn't.  Should I also be suspicious of the bearing seals?

			Rick Grant

rgrant@synapse.net			1959, 88" SII
Ottawa, Canada

------------------------------

From: jpappa01@interserv.com
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 18:11:18 PDT
Subject: Re: 	Lug nuts!

The latest print media ad for Disco is about lug nuts! Not really, but.... All 
the sales staff at Metro West received a neat wooden base mounting a wheel nut 
from a Disco, a Ford Exploder, and one from a Jeep G. Cherokee. A brilliant 
piece of marketing slickness. Even a Rover hater could not make a creditable 
comeback to explain the grenade-sized and heft to match qualities of the Land 
Rover wheel nut with the pitiful, sized just like any other car hardward from 
the Ford and Jeep. The brilliance of the campaign sets in when you realize 
that you can take virtually any system or component from the Disco (or any 
other Land Rover) and demonstrate similar comparisons/constrasts!

Kudos to the person who finally pointed out to the digest that the Disco has a 
l-o-o-n-g travel throttle pedal since it - like everything else - is designed 
to be used off-road. Long, copious throttle travel means you can tickle the 
throttle to help the vehicle walk over rocks, logs, and other uneven 
terrain... It also prevents premature kickdown which helps in the fuel economy 
dept. If you want it to kick down, then *floor it.* Floor-it means just that. 
Put the pedal onto the floor plates. It *WILL* kickdown!

That a V-8 Jeep will out-accelerate the Disco? Simple physics. Lots more hp, 
and over 500 pounds less weight. No frame, remember. Enough cowl shake to 
scramble eggs. Drive a Jeep or Explorer over some washboard to see some really 
dismal torsional rigidity. Rode in a friend's Eddie Bauer Explorer the other 
day. Every highway bump we hit produced transverse displacement in the 
hood/cowl and dashboard which was distinctly out of phase. Translation: 
loosey-goosey! Can't even imagine this vehicle five years down the road. Never 
mind if it is ever taken off-pavement...

Again, I mention that we have a parade of Fords and Jeeps coming through Metro 
West. I'm still waiting to see the first Discovery in the used car lot across 
the street at Brigham and Gill Jeep... 

So all of you that bought the Disco - congrats on your purchase decision! 
Welcome to the Land Rover Experience. And I agree - if your looking for the 
real skinny on toaster ovens, microwaves, and cappuchino makers - then grab a 
copy of Consumer Reports. I'd give a few bucks for list of the vehicles 
actually owned by the editorial staff of some of these magazines. 

When the SUV hype eventually dies down and the masses are lining up to buy the 
next great vehicle that *they* tell us is cool - ubiquitous old Land Rover 
will still be there - catering to those who can appreciate the differences 
that can be found in a purpose-built vehicle!

cheerz
Jim - yes - it's o.k. to put carpeting in a D90 - just be sure you can remove 
it!

`67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid
`67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid
`68 2B 110 F/C diesel
`70 P6B 3500S
`90 Range Rover County
`93 D110 (#457/500)
`95 D90 #1958

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 22:10:52 -0400
From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens)
Subject: Re: Have I made a mistake?

>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>I bought a 1971 LR 88 SeriesII on 10/12/95. On 10/13/95 (Friday), the main
>Is this a sign of things to come?

Yep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 22:20:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Looking for offroad Disco

All,
    I'm taking a few new Land Rover owners on an offroading expedition
    this coming Sunday (Oct. 22).  I plan to give them a taste of what
    the vehicles can do, and the kinds of places they can go, on a
    rough-but-not-at-all-destructive offroading jaunt in the national
    forest trails West of Harrisonburg, VA.  The passengers include a
    couple of Series Rover owners (one whose vehicle is on the road but
    not yet up to offroad rigors; one whose vehicle is undergoing
    massive drivetrain overhaul) and a Disco owner (who wants to
    experience offroading, but not at risk to his own expensive
    vehicle....YET [we'll get you out there eventually Stuart!])

    We're taking my '60 SII, I have a friend with a '94 D90 going
    along, and I hope to get a '74 SIII owner nearby to go too.  Since a
    couple of our kids are going too, that may still leave us a tad
    cramped on seats for passengers.

    So I'd like to get someone else to go with us...preferably a Disco
    owner, just so the whole gamut is represented.  Anyone out there
    with a Disco up for some offroading in the mountains of west-central
    Virginia all day Sunday?  The leaves should be beautiful then. 
    Other than paint scratches from close-in brush, vehicle damage risk
    should be negligible.  (Which is not to say the offroading won't be
    fun!)

    I'm not looking to put together some big group trip, but if anyone
    else is interested they're welcome to join in too, even if they
    don't have a Disco!  I'm just specifically trying to get one of
    those along for the ride so Stuart can see that his type vehicle is
    capable of everything the old ones are.

    Give me a yell at this e-mail address or call me evenings at
    804-973-1369 if you're interested in coming along.  We'll be meeting
    in Harrisonburg at 9am, and heading to trails an hour West of there,
    probably spending the better part of the day crisscrossing up and
    down the mountains.

    Duncan, aching to get offroad again now that his engine and
    transmission aren't on their last legs anymore!

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Discovery transmission and roof racks
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 12:01:30 +0930 (CST)

> Automatic vs. manual: The gear ratios for 1st are 3.32:1 for manual 
> and 2.48:1 for auto.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> (2.09:1). What is the significance of such a low reverse in the manual? I am
>missing something with the relatively higher ratio in the auto?

Well I'd suspect that a low reverse on the manual is to make reversing in
tight situations easier. With a low gear you can get off the clutch
completely and just crawl along...
As for the difference in 1st gear ratios, the torque converter will
compensate for this to a large extent. (anyone know the torque multiplication
factor for the converter in a disco??) It is possible to troll along at a
much lower speed with an auto than a manual.

Manual V's Auto...  This question will never really be answered, its a case
of horses for courses.  There are some circumstances where I'd kill for an
auto and others where they would be a pain. ( though 4 wheel discs + 4ch. ABS
has lessened the problem of engine braking).

It really depends upon which YOU are more comfortable with.  I wouldnt worry
too much about the ratio differences, Land-rovers typically have atheir
ratios pretty well sorted out.  As for off-road performance...given my
limited natural ability, if I had a big pot of cash I'd probably go for an
auto, then get bored with it doing everything for me and shift manually and
get into trouble anyway.......      
 
> Roof capacity: The specs for the various roof racks I have seen show 
> a limit of 110 lbs/50 kilos capacity? I figured on being able to 
> sleep up there under rare circumstances. Seems I'll be sleeping 
> inside instead. Why such a low limit?

What are the published limits for Toyota, Nissan etc.  do they actually
publish figures these days????
Not too long ago the only company publishing roof loading was Land-rover (at
least here in OZ). Toyota and others werent interested in warranty problems
associated with roof rack usage........
  Remember this is a dynamic (ie on/(off?) road) load capacity, I'd suspect
that you could sleep up top, mind you its a long way to fall.....  

As a brief aside have you ever seen what extended usage of a roof
rack can do to a tojo (even just the rack empty), cracked pillars
everywhere...

cheers

-- 

  Daryl

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 22:49:27 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Vehicle rankings

WRT the thread on the CR vehicle rankings, perhaps this says it all.  In 
1972, my best friend from college bought his first Chevy Blazer a month or 
two before I bought my Rover.  I'm *still* driving that Rover...he's on his 
*fifth* Blazer.  Cheers.
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Discovery transmission and roof racks 
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 20:09:07 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Someone asked about Disos:

> > Roof capacity: The specs for the various roof racks I have seen show 
> > a limit of 110 lbs/50 kilos capacity? I figured on being able to 
> > sleep up there under rare circumstances. Seems I'll be sleeping 
> > inside instead. Why such a low limit?

	The more that you put in the roof rack, the higher that your center
of gravity (CoG) is.  The higher the CoG, the smaller the side angle that
the Rover can safely traverse before rolling over.  (All of this becomes
very apparant when you have a load of firewood and steel sandmats in the rack,
are on narrow track with a 100 foot dropoff on your right, you are making
a tight left hand turn, hugging the canyon wall with the right tyre a foot from
the edge and you are listing 10 to 15 degrees towards the empty chasm--sorry
that was last weekend and I still am twitching a little bit)  Anyway how
much you put up in the rack will affect your off road driving.  Manufactures
tend to put a low limit on their racks just incase someone decides to sue.
For Series Rovers I've seen suggested limits of 200 lbs.  If you are only 
going to be on flat ground this can obviously be increased.

	An interesting thing that I discovered is that if you put a lot of
weight in the roof rack of a Series Rover (300+ lbs) and attempt to drive
at freeway speeds, an positive feedback sideways oscillation develops at about
50 to 55 mph.  Or at least it does for me.  The oscillation will cause you to 
loose control if it goes on for long, it appears suddenly and the only 
cure is to slow down (you ain't accelerating out of it in a Series Rover).

	As for the strength of the Disco roof, I saw a Disco last weekend that
had a roof mounted tent that looked like it attached to the gutter.  Two people
slept in it, so the roof must be fairly strong.

	One other thing.  How much you can carry depends upon the type of
rack.  Mine is a gavanized cage with 1/2" or 3/4" steel rectangular tube 
construction.  It is attached to the gutter by 10 legs.  I dunno how much a
Thule rack that only has 2 cross pieces and 4 attachment points can carry. 
Most of my comments above assume that the rack you intend to get is of 
rugged and strong construction.  YMMV

Ben

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 00:49:42 -0400
Subject: Help for prospective LRO.

Friend of mine and former neighbor,  Robin,  is agonizing over buying a
series Rover.   Trying to get him subscribed to the list.     I instructed
him to send email to  <majordomo@land-rover.team.net>  and type only the word
'subscribe' into the text area.   Majordomo spits and hisses at him.  Have I
told him correctly?  I've been on the list for quite awhile and haven't had
to deal with the major.   Can post here,  send to me or directly to Robin.
  Robins email is <RNicklesNC@aol.com>.    
Thanks all.
Rick  Crider  kd4fxa
Monroe  NC
66  SIIa   109"      Hugo.....currently up for adoption.
73  Slll     88"       Jesse
88  Range  Rover

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 1:19:30 -24000
From: "Adam Messer" <amesser@usaid.gov>
Subject: ...no subject...

subscribe lro-digest

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 17:41:09 +1200
From: jawa@i-max.co.nz (leonard john hobart)
Subject: Re: SII Brake questions

>I'm puzzled.  Both the Haynes and shop manuals say the SWB II's are fitted
>with identical front and rear brakes but on mine the rear brakes seem to be
>set up differently.  On the front, the top spring connects to holes in both
You could find that the front brakes are twin leading shoe, and have 2 wheel
cylinders per wheel, and the the rear maybe  single wheel cylinders but with
2 pistons per cylinder
>shoes, but on the rear the spring connects from one shoe to what looks to be
>the adjuster. 

are there 2 springs in total in the rear drum? I have not had mine apart yet.
 
.  Neither are the manuals any help in sorting out the adjusters.
>The ones on the front just don't seem to be doing much of anything
the front ones should be cams with a serated working surface, they are quite
coarse in adjustment and must be adjust with the drum on, wheel jacked up,
adjust till shoes scrape lightly on drum

can't help with rear adjustment till I have a go myself

>During this puzzling journey I found that the rear brakes are badly
>contaminated and at the least I will have to replace the wheel cylinder
>seals.  
But will I also have to replace the shoes?  
it depends on weather the shoes  are oil soaked or not. If contaminated with
oil, it is near impossable, and not safe to restore them. Though I have seen
old grease monkeys (mechanics) attack them with a gas torch and wipe the oil
off as it sweats out.
>They look to be quite recent although they're near dead black because of
all the junk.  >Although one of the brakes has perceptible leakage from the
dust caps the other
>doesn't.  Should I also be suspicious of the bearing seals?
If you can't tell weather the oil in the brake area is brake fluid, or diff
oil by the smell, try washing out the brake shoe area with pressure water
from a hose, this is a safety precaution as it lays down any asbestos from
the brake shoes and drum (NEVER NEVER use compresed air) and brake fluid,
and dust  will wash away, as it is missable in water.   If the greasy gunk
just stays there, it may well be oil that has leaked out of the bearing
seal/diff area.
>			Rick Grant
>contaminated and at the least I will have to replace the wheel cylinder
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>rgrant@synapse.net			1959, 88" SII
>Ottawa, Canada
regards John

------------------------------

From: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 01:44:31 -0500
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Heya LRO's got this one by personal e-mail...

>In article <ahyoon-1210951552570001@f180-134.net.wisc.edu> you wrote:
>: If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail at ahyoon@students.wisc.edu
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>Marco A.( 12 years with Land Cruiser, nothing to complaint)
>--

Land Rovers are outdated......they have:
        - engines based on GM blocks from eons ago
        - chassis designs from eons ago

damn straight.,.they are also the world's best 4x4 vehicle....Those who
contend this fact are none but fools.  Which company has been making four
wheel drive vehicles for 40+ years?  Do you see Land Cruisers in the Camel
Trophy Challenge? How many 1960 Toyotas are still on the road?  No, and
there is a reason for that....Do you want me to find something wrong with
the LC?...How about the inability to fit a lot of places due to it's sheer
bulk?

Sorry, the Land Rover is the real thing......everything else is nothing but
a copy..........The LandCruiser is a capable machine with good ground
clearance and an excellent four wheel drive system.........It is also a
vehicle most often purchased by those who consider "off-roading" to be
driving on their driveways.  One other small point.....as we all know here,
there isn't a damn thing that a Toyota LC can do that any LR can't.....plus
you have that tiny benefit of the D90 being a few dollars less that a
LC.......try $15,000.....*smile*

Long live Land Rover.....!!!!

Arnold Yoon
University of Wisconsin - Madison
E-Mail: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu
Voice: (608) 259-9936

GO DISCO!!!                         Normal manufacturers make SUVs that
1995 Land Rover Discovery           can go off-road.  Land Rover makes
"Four Wheel Drive Exemplified"      off-road vehicles that can go on the road.

 

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