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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 05:07:48 -0500
From: Wood Bill <billwood@inch.com>

-- [ From: Wood Bill * EMC.Ver #2.5.03 ] --

unsubscribe

------------------------------

From: Vel Natarajan <nataraja@cig.mot.com>
Subject: What's an Amigo...
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:28:36 -0500 (CDT)

>From: Tom Stevenson <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
>Subject: Challenge
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
>University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
>Tel:(01475) 530581  Fax:(01475) 530601

It's smaller than a Trooper.  From the Frontera's I've seen here, I
think they are identical to the Amigo.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vel Natarajan                            Phone:  +44-1793-556-742
Motorola Inc.                            Fax:    +44-1793-430-987
16 Euro Way,                             Mobile: +49-171-854-6670
Blagrove, Swindon,                
England, SN5 8YQ                         Email:  nataraja@cig.mot.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Richard Jones <rich@apricot.mee.com>
Subject: Re: RR FAQ / Buyer's Guide?
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:46:12 +0100 (BST)

Dixon Kenner writes:
> 	On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, John Brabyn wrote:
> 	> Sounds like it's time for a RR FAQ, doesn't it?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> 		3.	What do you look for when you buy one?  (rust etc)
> 		Always said I'd add the bits to the FAQ, but I can't tell

I have been keeping the Range Rover postings since the end of July with an FAQ
in mind, so am happy to maintain the beast if you would prefer not to be dragged
in further than adding a URL to the Land Rover FAQ, and suggesting some good 
questions.  However, if you are happy to maintain the FAQ, you may find the VIN
number stuff at

	http://www.apricot.co.uk/rel3/directory/rrr/vin.html
	
of some use, and I will try and finish the "how you tell them apart" stuff I
started putting together for the UK models (takes a little longer than the US
models, even with the lack of activity in the mid 70's :-)).
__ 
  _ __              Apricot Computer Limited
 ' )  )      /      3500 Parkside                 Tel:   (+44) 121 717 7171
  /--' o _. /_      Birmingham Business Park      Fax:   (+44) 121 717 0123
 /  <_<_(__/ <_     BIRMINGHAM  B37 7YS
 Richard Jones      United Kingdom                Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk 

------------------------------

From: Vel Natarajan <nataraja@cig.mot.com>
Subject: I finally bought one!!!
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:53:22 -0500 (CDT)

Well, after reading the list for the last few years and poring over
LRO and LRW mags, (and managing to wrangle a job assignment in
England), I finally got sick of looking and bought a '67 88" SIIa
hardtop.  It has a new chassis, a turner unleaded head, a tropical top
with alpine windows and a rear safari door.  And the PO also welded
new doorposts and put on SIII hinges w/ 90 mirrors and a SIII heater.
(It's advertised in the Sept LRW mag - the one w/ the Dust Devils
cover).  He wanted 2300 and I got it for 2000 quid.  It's in pretty
good condition, but I'm already considering the upgrades and goodies
it will need.

I sorted the insurance out, and it will cost me #115/year for 3rd
party/fire/theft.  This is for an unmarried mail driver under 30 with
an American driver's license and no claims in the last 6 years.

I just have to get the road tax and I can drive it to my house this
weekend.  So I can now finally stop asking silly non-owner questions
and start asking silly owner related questions.  Can't wait to get it
off-road, (or green-lane as they say over here)...

Vel

------------------------------

From: Trefor Delve <delve1t@nectech.co.uk>
Subject: More bits about :Misc. RR problems resolved except one
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 12:24:00 GMT

I wonder if the collected expertise of the net could answer some questions 
about Rover injection and associated bits and pieces.

These are questions relating to comments originally from Stefan Jacob, John 
Brabyn and Russ Burns regarding the thread titled *Misc. RR problems 
resolved except one*.  The questions relate to:

  1) Throttle potentiometer;

  2) Mass airflow sensors;

  3) Lambda sensors;

  4) Ignition issues.

QUESTIONS:

1) THROTTLE POTENTIOMETER

As far as the throttle potentiometer is concerned, Stefan wrote:

>> The potentiometer gives signals to the ECU to deliver more 'juice' and 
accelerate firing and injection order.

I am no expert on the injection used in the Rovers, but based upon the other 
(electronic) injection systems I have worked on, the throttle potentiometer 
is a bit of a misnomer.  The sensor on the throttle has previously consisted 
of two switches, one to indicate when the throttle is closed so that the ECU 
can take over control of engine idling; and the other to indicate full 
throttle.  The demand signal comes directly from the mass flow sensor, 
either hot wire or moving flap type.

2)  MASS AIRFLOW SENSORS

As far as the application of hot wire sensors goes.  I thought that one of 
the drawbacks with hot-wire mass flow sensors was their poor transient 
performance, i.e., their response to sudden rushes of air was slow resulting 
in a lean mixture in response to a request to accelerate.  I suppose in 
principle, if a true *throttle poentiometer* was used, the ECU would be able 
to tell when the user was trying to accelerate and thus compensate for the 
limitations in the hot wire sensor.  Perhaps you can confirm or deny this 
thought.

One of the advantages of the *flap* type air flow sensor was that it was 
better able to deal with transient effect.  While there is a certain amount 
of effort required to move the flap (and therefore delay), if the air moves 
then so must the flap.  However, one of the disadvantages (one that the hot 
wire does not suffer) is that atmospheric pressure and temperature must be 
considered as this affects air density.

3) LAMBDA SENSORS

Another thing that puzzles me is the use of lambda sensors.  The lambda 
sensors I know do not give a reading that indicates your air/fuel ratio, 
merely an indication of whether you are above or below stoichiometric. 
 While in a steady state condition, it is true that the sensor will keep the 
average air/fuel ratio at stoichiometric for a better fuel economy and 
catalytic performance, under acceleration conditions, re-tuning to 
stoichiometric settings reduces the output power.  Does anyone know if the 
Rover ECU deals with this situation.  (Perhaps the new lambda sensors allow 
a feedback of the actual lambda value and so can be tuned accurately for 
acceleration settings).

4) IGNITION ISSUES

Stefan also wrote:

>> Another thing that could hang, though, is the distributor base plate. 
 But I'd be very reluctant to fiddle around with an Efi distributor.

Surely the Rovers have done away with timing advance on the distributor. 
 The whole point of the ECU and Efi system is to combine the flywheel and 
airflow signals in order that the ignition timing and quantity of fuel may 
be adjusted accurately.

I realise these may not be issues that most people are interested in (as 
hopefully the injection does not go wrong that often), so mail me directly 
if you like.

Trefor.

tdelve@nectech.co.uk

------------------------------

From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 09:29:28 EST
Subject: Re[2]: Misc. RR problems resolved except one.

     Stefan/John
     
     The air flow meter in all US spec Range Rovers 87 on (don't know about 
     the new ones) uses the "hot wire" air flow meter. So there is no flap 
     as Stefan described.
     
     Regards
     Mike
     87 RR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 06:45:22 -0700
From: burns@lint.cisco.com (Russell burns)
Subject: Re: More bits about :Misc. RR problems resolved except one

At 12:24 PM 9/27/95 GMT, Trefor Delve wrote:
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 36 lines)]
>can take over control of engine idling; and the other to indicate full 
>throttle.  The demand signal comes directly from the mass flow sensor, 
>either hot wire or moving flap type.

My 91 R-Rover has an actual potentiometer. I had the fortune to
get very intamate with the device, and its function is to deliver a
voltage from 0 to 5 volts to the ECU. If the voltage drops to 0,
the engine idles. I actually had a voltmeter connected to the
output of the pot. To monitor it while I was driving. It was the only 
way I could get the problem fixed.

>2)  MASS AIRFLOW SENSORS
>As far as the application of hot wire sensors goes.  I thought that one of 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 31 lines)]
>a feedback of the actual lambda value and so can be tuned accurately for 
>acceleration settings).

You lost me on that stoichiometric thing. let me know what the heck it is,
and maybe I can figure out  how Uncle Lucas handles it.
>4) IGNITION ISSUES
>Stefan also wrote:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>airflow signals in order that the ignition timing and quantity of fuel may 
>be adjusted accurately.

No, My 91 Rover has one of those distributers that turns to adjust
the timing. I run mine at about 10 degrees btdc as it seems to run a
little better there. (nobs for nerds)

>I realise these may not be issues that most people are interested in (as 
>hopefully the injection does not go wrong that often), so mail me directly 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>Trefor.
>tdelve@nectech.co.uk
Russ Burns________________________________________________________________
CiscoSystems

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:17:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Haslam <haslam@alcor.concordia.ca>
Subject: RR: Intermittent Running Trouble

Here's my 5 cents worth.

On a Rover SD1 (L Jetronic), a connection to the throttle pot becomes 
flaky, producing erratic performance, etc. One of the leads on the pot 
becomes separated from the thick-film substrate of the pot.

It's easy to check for.  Connect an ohmmeter across the pot, and wiggle 
the leads.  If the resistance changes, a lead has a bad contact with the 
pot. Because there a 3 leads, you need to try 2 combinations of leads. I 
am yet to succeed in re-attaching the lead.

The reason performance is erratic is that the ECU tries to compensate for 
bad readings off the pot: sometimes it guesses right, and sometimes it 
doesn't.

I mention this problem mostly because testing for it is easy.  My guess 
is that the trouble on an RR is related to the alternator, although I had 
a alternator belt that squealed for a month or two, and performance was 
normal.

...chris
88 RR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 12:01:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Haslam <haslam@alcor.concordia.ca>
Subject: 87-88 RR: Lambda sensor resistance

Per my diagrams (on monash) and the Workshop Manual, the resistance of 
*each* lambda sensor heater coil should be 5.3 to 6.7 ohms.  They are in 
parallel, so if they're both OK, you get 2.65 to 3.35 ohms between 
contact 87 on the Fuel Pump relay and pin 4 of the ECU (ground).

Suggest you take a look at Sheet 8 of my schematics, on 
http://www.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/RR/Haslam.

...chris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 09:17:56 -0700
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: RR starboard list

You mentioned that most 87-90 NA Range Rovers exhibit a starboard list.  
What causes that?

-Matt

------------------------------

From: JHobbs151@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 12:24:54 -0400
Subject: Financing an older Land Rover

I would appreciate any information anyone has on financing an older model
Land Rover. I have, in the past, inquired at my bank about purchasing
"classic" automobiles. I think Land Rovers fall into this category. What I
was told is that, since it is hard to determine a "real/loan" value on
classic autos, etc., the bank is reluctant to loan money on those vehicles
that are 20-30 years old or older. Since I have found that a Land Rover, in
fairly good shape, will run between $3,000-$10,000, I realize that I must
finance one (unless I find one that runs for about $1500). And since it seems
bank aren't overly willing to finance such type cars, I'm left out in the
cold, I guess. If anyone has some advice I would appreciate hearing it.

Thanks,
Jay Hobbs
jhobbs151@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 27 Sep 95 12:17:50 EDT
Subject: My mail is really hosed....

...so if anyone's been trying to reach me (God knows why), I can also be
reached at richer@village.com. Don't expect too-fast response, though - 
I can't monitor it continuously the way I do with the Lotus account.

OBRoverstuff:

I had Churchill out this weekend - WHEEEEE! I KNEW I loved
Rovers! It felt really goo to DRIVE him and not just work on
him... 70 MPH - No Problem!

    aj"Much happier now"r

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:03:00 -0600 (MDT)
From: Rob Bailey <baileyr@cuug.ab.ca>
Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 02:55:10 -0500
From: owner-lro-digest@uk.stratus.com
Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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	  Contents:
  1 A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk Tue Sep 26 04:18   38/1602  Exhaust downpipe
  2 gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk Tue Sep 26 04:41   24/1305  Challenge
  3 Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk Tue Sep 26 06:07   54/2575  "Man survives fall in Lan
  4 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Tue Sep 26 06:45   40/2233  Re: Finding a PTO winch (
  5 sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM Tue Sep 26 06:46   46/2535  12V conversion & winches
  6 azw@aber.ac.uk     Tue Sep 26 07:24   27/1387  Re: Frame Oiling
  7 azw@aber.ac.uk     Tue Sep 26 07:25   16/893   Wavering speedo
  8 70004.4011@compuserve.com Tue Sep 26 08:04   41/2092  D90 Owners Respond
  9 70004.4011@compuserve.com Tue Sep 26 08:15   25/1092  Galvinizer
 10 Frederick_O._Ellsworth@bcsmac.org Tue Sep 26 09:04   21/1175  Popping out of gear
 11 verriello_t@jpmorgan.com Tue Sep 26 09:22   67/3229  D90's  Pros/Cons
 12 burns@lint.cisco.com Tue Sep 26 09:25   95/4486  Re: D90 owners please res
 13 pdandrew@iaccess.za Tue Sep 26 09:37   35/1687  Re: Popping out of gear
 14 Harincar@mooregs.com Tue Sep 26 09:44   46/1796  More on Insurance
 15 burns@lint.cisco.com Tue Sep 26 09:48   29/1376  Re: Frame Oiling
 16 Guydell@aol.com    Tue Sep 26 10:51   35/1962  RR problems resolved exce
 17 snyderr@hpanvs.an.hp.com Tue Sep 26 10:54   36/1633  IIA Servo Question
 18 jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com Tue Sep 26 10:59   75/3753  RE: D90 Owners...
 19 A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk Tue Sep 26 11:13   33/1379  Re: Frame Oiling
 20 M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Tue Sep 26 11:16   41/1625  Re: Frame Oiling
 21 jory@figment.mit.edu Tue Sep 26 11:49  127/5786  If OS's were beers... (fw
 22 brabyn@skivs.ski.org Tue Sep 26 12:04   62/2860  Re: Various Questions
 23 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV    Tue Sep 26 13:06   61/3285  RR problems resolved exce
 24 brabyn@skivs.ski.org Tue Sep 26 13:42   48/2233  Re: RR problems resolved 
 25 billwood@inch.com  Tue Sep 26 13:57   47/2006  Please stop
 26 johng@iafrica.com  Tue Sep 26 14:00   40/1625  LH footwell Heat
 27 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV    Tue Sep 26 14:09   59/3102  Re: RR problem...
 28 shibumi@cisco.com  Tue Sep 26 14:39   41/2339  Re: RR problems resolved 
 29 delve1t@nectech.co.uk Tue Sep 26 14:57   38/1727  RE: Wierd Generator Stuff
 30 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV    Tue Sep 26 15:24   35/1822  '87 RR problem, o2 sensor
 31 ross@secant.com    Tue Sep 26 15:46   38/1794  Thanks to all
 32 brabyn@skivs.ski.org Tue Sep 26 16:31   47/2020  Re: '87 RR problem, o2 se
 33 nickfull@pavilion.co.uk Tue Sep 26 17:00   34/1888  Re: Fuel tank pressure
 34 100043.2400@compuserve.com Tue Sep 26 17:02   43/2620  Re: Misc. RR problems res
 35 100043.2400@compuserve.com Tue Sep 26 17:02   47/2390  Re: RR FAQ / Buyer's Guid
 36 dkenner@emr1.emr.ca Tue Sep 26 17:21   35/1530  Re: RR FAQ / Buyer's Guid
 37 brabyn@skivs.ski.org Tue Sep 26 17:58   35/1438  Re: Misc. RR problems res
 38 twakeman@apple.com Tue Sep 26 18:40   30/1385  88 blank sides wanted
 39 brabyn@skivs.ski.org Tue Sep 26 19:01   90/3911  Re: RR FAQ / Buyer's Guid
 40 100043.2400@compuserve.com Tue Sep 26 20:31   29/1578  Re: Misc. RR problems res
 41 rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Tue Sep 26 20:37   27/1181  LAND ROVER TOY NEWS
 42 rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Tue Sep 26 20:37   30/1312  LAND ROVER STAMP NEWS
 43 burns@cisco.com    Tue Sep 26 20:45   72/3160  Re: '87 RR problem, o2 se
 44 kbossard@mgdestmx01.erin.gov.au Tue Sep 26 21:32   31/1666  Isuzu Diesel Engines
 45 jjbpears@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 26 21:44   39/1274  109 Shocks - Rancho Updat
 46 wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us Tue Sep 26 23:13   34/1800  Re: LH footwell Heat
 47 tonyy@waalpha.wa.BoM.GOV.AU Tue Sep 26 23:17   43/1990  Re: Isuzu Diesel Engines
 48 tonyy@waalpha.wa.BoM.GOV.AU Tue Sep 26 23:28   50/2347  RE: D90 Owners...
 49 wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us Tue Sep 26 23:28   46/2243  Re: Please stop

------------------------------

From: Andrew Grafton <A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Exhaust downpipe
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:18:25 BST

Our 2286 diesel (with the downward-facing manifold outlet) exhaust
down pipe is rattling around.  This is because the lip fitted to 
the top of the pipe, which is clamped between the manifold and the
triangular thingy on the exhaust, has worn and is now too small.

The downpipe's in good condition apart from that and I'd 
rather not chuck it if I can avoid doing so.  Any super-hints
out there for solving the problem?

Tried clamping a piece of coathanger wire in there along with 
everything else, but it was too fiddly and kept sticking out the
side.  What I'd like to find is some kind of asbestos bootlace
with wire reinforcement...  Anyone know where in the UK I can get 
some?

In case it is of interest, the exhaust is on a 109" not-safari
and pumps the smoke out of the left hand rear wheel well.

All the best,

Andy
A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk
 

------------------------------

From: Tom Stevenson <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Challenge
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:36:27 +0100 (BST)

What is an Amigo? Is it an Isuzu Trooper made by someone else, or is it
another version of the Vauxhall Frontera, which I understand is a
rebadged Japanese vehicle?
-- 
Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
Tel:(01475) 530581  Fax:(01475) 530601

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:05:39 +0000
Subject:       "Man survives fall in LandRover"

Scottish Daily Record, 25/9/95

Lucky driver Eugene Maxwell reckons he owes his life to his sturdy 
Land-Rover.
The vehicle was knocked off a bridge yesterday into a river 40 feet below 
by an articulated lorry - and then the truck crashed down on top of it.
But the 38-year-old amazingly escaped with only a cut finger, a sore back 
and bruises.

[snip]

The crash happened on Deanston Bridge, Perthshire.
At home in Brig O'Turk, Perthshire, Eugene said: "I owe my life to 
Land-Rover."
"'If I had been driving anything else I don't think I would be here now."
"The Land-Rover came crashing down into the river, and then I heard the 
lorry coming down as well. I thought I was a goner."
"But the Land-Rover just took it."

Eugene's Land Rover is a White Defender 90, reg looks like G383SPL
The picture in the paper shows the D90 drivers side down with the rear 
wheels of the artic.'s cab resting on the rear axel of the D90 and lying 
on it's passengers side.

PS - Eugene's two dogs also escaped uninjured :-)

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
 <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/> or <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 06:46:42 EDT
From: (Tom Rowe) <trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: Finding a PTO winch (was Military 24 Volt)

On Mon, 25 Sep 1995 16:03:21 -0600 (MDT) Rob wrote:

>Some more questions:
Snip

>4) Are PTO winches that fit a series LR easily found? I have a forward 
>pointing PTO on the transfer case. Or is it just easier to get an 
>electric one? I would have to upgrade my generator (an 
>old 22 amp one) and convert to neg. ground, I expect.

Rob,
The most common PTO in the US, the Koenig, is no longer produced as such. I believe it is still made in the guise of a hydraulic. If you have the PTO output unit on your tranny, you should be able to convert one to PTO. I can give you some details if y
Otherwise, you'll just have to keep your eyes & ears open for a used one. They come up fairly frequently it seems. Two here on the list in the past few months.
If you don't think you'll be using it much, an electric one probably will suit. And it certainly will be cheaper than a Koenig would be new, and likely cheaper than a used Koenig.

Tom Rowe
UW-Center for Dairy Research
Madison, WI                    | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
608-265-6194                  | in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 12:30:15 BST
Subject: 12V conversion & winches

Rob, if you are going to convert a 24V to a 12V I would expect lots of very
odd wiring problems to surface as the lower voltage just won't have the
potential to bridge the rusty joints.

There are very mixed opinions on the value of the conversion.  A lot of people
recommend it as the 24V plugs, cap & whatever are very expensive as they are
screened.  It is possible to throw away these bits and replace them with the
12V variety, but be sure to run with 12V if you use a 12V coil.

I have heard about split systems which sound like a good idea as you keep the
alternator which will run a small housing estate and good lights but loose
the expense/bother of the ignition system.

24/12V convertors are available for the system, but if your note was
suggesting fiddling with the same alternator to change the output voltage
I have never heard of it being done.  New 12V alternators are quite cheap.

Winches: most pto winches are available are the capstain variety.  These have
limited use for self recovery as they rely on somebody keeping the rope taut
whilst moving to keep up with the vehicle.  If you can't drive over it can
you be sure of being able to walk on it?  One slip and the whole thing could
run backwards at a high rate (of course you did stand far enough away that
you wouldn't get run over when you fell!).

Electric winches are available in 24V as well (that housing estate generator
is useful), otherwise 12V electrics need to be in good shape, preferably with
a high output alternator and a spare battery on a split charge system.  Running
with an electric winch and a 22 amp dynamo is likely to get you working up a
sweat with the cranking handle!

Positive earth winches are going to be hard to source.

Steve Reddock ( no .sig and I don't work for IBM either!)

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Frame Oiling
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 13:21:55 UNDEFINED

>>any of the spray. This only good for the outside of the frame. I 
>>still use regular used motor oil and gear oil (heated) to spray 
>>inside the frame and lots of it. 

Nononononono!!!!!! Why do you think you change the engine oil? Cos it gets all 
acidic. In my young naive days I thought how good it would be to rustproof my 
tools with old motor oil. (Yorkshiremen HATE throwing owt away). They all went 
very rusty..........

Old gear oil is fine. Old engine oil shuld be thrown in the nearest river and 
not allowed anywhere near your pride and joy!

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Wavering speedo
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 13:24:56 UNDEFINED

Mine wavered like hell for months before the cable broke.........

------------------------------

Date: 26 Sep 95 09:00:57 EDT
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: D90 Owners Respond

Ross:

I bought a D90 to replace a series of Series LR's because I have a long commute
(and because I really, really wanted one!).  Mine has no rattles (except my
teeth on speed bumps) and is built like a brick outhouse.  The Mud Terrain's are
a bit noisy and I will likely replace them with All-Terrains when they wear out.
If cost is an issue... buy used.  I bought mine for $26K with 800 (yes, 800)
miles on it and every possible option installed, except hardtop.  They are
regularly advertised with <4K miles for 27K miles in AutoWeek and a call around
to dealers will net you a good used one, probably in your choice of colors.  A
plane ticket to a dealer elsewhere would be well worth saving 6K and taxes on a
new one.

It is a bit of a beast on the road, but compared to a Series LR, it's a comfy,
practical daily commuter.

But I must admit to also having a large sedan that I can drive when business
dictates and I would recommend to people that they think about a Disco unless
they really want to live day-to-day with a noisy purpose-built off-roader.

What clinched it for me... convertible top.  There is nothing like a D90 with
the roof and door tops off tooling down a dirt road in search of a little path
into the boonies on a cool fall day.  Nothing at all....

Cheers, 

R. P. Reid

------------------------------

Date: 26 Sep 95 09:12:33 EDT
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Galvinizer

Howdy:

Who can recommend a good galvinizer to re-galvanize a whole mess of Series One
parts.  Prefer in the Northeast, but will ship anywhere for a proper job.  

Also, does anyone have a recommendation on a pneumatic riveter (or similar) to
duplicate the domed rivet heads on a SI?

Thanks, 

R. P . Reid

------------------------------

From: Frederick_O._Ellsworth@bcsmac.org (Frederick O. Ellsworth)
Subject: Popping out of gear
Date: 26 Sep 1995 14:35:55 GMT

What would cause a IIA tranny to pop out of 4th gear at freeway speeds.  On a
250 mile trip yesterday it happened 4 times.  Has never done it before.  
The Fairey overdrive was engaged, speed about 65mph, running 85-140 gear oil.
Thanks in advance for any ideas,
Fred

- sent via an evaluation copy of BulkRate (unregistered).

------------------------------

From: Anthony Verriello <verriello_t@jpmorgan.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:20:45 -0400
Subject: D90's  Pros/Cons

I have  a  '94 D90 that I bought about 12 months ago...here are my experiences to date:

Minuses:
	-I use more gas than some small countries
	-I cant list all the noises (Never mind the tire carrier, I am convinced 
		mine is haunted)
	-Trips over six hours are torture 

Pluses:
	-Nothing can stop this thing, you soon learn the following things:
		1) three feet is not alot of snow (I havent shoveled my driveway since 
			I got mine)
		2) In emergencies, creative detours over almost any road obstacle are
			possible (I have had to traverse small walls, trees, 
			lakes that used to be roads and other nasties)
		3) saving other make 4x4s, from themselves, on the trail, is reason 
			enough to buy one  
	-I still get the what the hell looks from people that have never seen one
	-Its wash and wear (run it hard through the dirt topless and just hose it out,
		even WITH the leather seats)
	-Its just plain fun
	-You get to associate with really cool poeple like us

Conclussions
	-I will never sell my D90 and am sorry I had bought a 94 Wrangler before I
		realized the order of the food chain
	-The truck has personallity...not drawbacks.  Its all part of the LR experience
	
Advice
	If you plan on driving on-road most of the time (and I dont advise that if you
        can avoid it) I would suggest looking at the Disco...however the hardtop D90 
	is alot tighter and quieter and you can always take the top off and run topless.
	
	Also if this is to be your only vehicle get the full soft-top or the hard top.
	Weddings and the like in a topless truck are not fun, just ask my girlfriend...

Tony V.
	
verriello_anthony@jpmorgan.com
        
 +-+--+-@
 |_|_/|__\__ 
 | _  |' |_ |} (Dagwood...named for his voracious appetite,
 =(_)=+==(_)'             petrol not sandwiches)

'94 NAS black D90 
(happiness is pulling a jeep out of a hole)
	

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 07:25:16 -0700
From: burns@lint.cisco.com (Russell burns)
Subject: Re: D90 owners please respond

>To: ross@secant.com (Ross Leidy)
>From: burns@lint.cisco.com (Russell burns)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 76 lines)]
>>year. I'm embarrased to say that I haven't made the purchase yet.  I do
>>have quite a  few dealer brochures and magazine articles that have drool
>>marks all over. :)
Russ Burns________________________________________________________________
CiscoSystems

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 16:37:56 +0200 (GMT+0200)
From: Andrew Birrell <pdandrew@iaccess.za>
Subject: Re: Popping out of gear

Possibly worn syncro unit (3rd/4th has an integral syncro unit), ar 
possibly worn teeth on 4th. A friend had a similar problem after a 
gearbox rebuild, when the 3rd/4th gear unit was put in the wrong way round.

On 26 Sep 1995, Frederick O. Ellsworth wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> What would cause a IIA tranny to pop out of 4th gear at freeway speeds.  On a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
> Fred
> - sent via an evaluation copy of BulkRate (unregistered).

------------------------------

From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 09:41:46 -0700
Subject: More on Insurance

Just wanted to add some specs on my insurance rate here in Minnesota.
This is for my '66 IIa 88. 

Total premium is $424.80 per year from Allstate, and includes the following:

- Urban residency (2.5 miles from downtown Minneapolis)
- Multi-car discount
- No unmarried drivers under 25
- Max 7500 miles/year, pleasure use only (i.e. no daily commuting)
- Good driver rate
- Advantage discount (because we have our homeowners throught Allstate)
- Economy car discount (? - I think thats because its 4 cyl.  -  hehehe)
- Policy is for actual cash value, not replacement value

Base liability - $196
Personal Injury - $142
Uninsured Motorist - $11.60
Underinsured Motorist - $11.20
Collision - $50
Comprehensive - $14.00

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@mooregs.com
'66 IIa 88 SW

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 07:48:49 -0700
From: burns@lint.cisco.com (Russell burns)
Subject: Re: Frame Oiling

I take it that river in Yorkshire, means proper disposal. I tend to enjoy
canoeing, and oil is tough to get off the canoe.
>Old gear oil is fine. Old engine oil shuld be thrown in the nearest river and 
>not allowed anywhere near your pride and joy!
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]

>Old gear oil is fine. Old engine oil shuld be thrown in the nearest river and 
>not allowed anywhere near your pride and joy!
Russ Burns________________________________________________________________
CiscoSystems

------------------------------

From: Guydell@aol.com
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 11:51:43 -0400
Subject: RR problems resolved except one.^MRE: RR prblms resol except 1

RE: David Brown RR problem:

I have a similar problem in my 90 RR where the engine cuts and hesitates
especially during acceleration onto the highway.  Sometimes this also happens
at constant acceleration.  The problem is erratic and unpredictable and
always corrects itself within minutes.  For example, I drove 200 miles on the
freeway over the weekend without incident, but then the problem reappeared
the next day.  Thus far I have run several bottles of Techron through the
fuel system to clean the injectors, changed the plugs, plug wires, and cap &
rotor, all to no avail.  Also, replaced the fuel filter and the fuel pump
pressure checks out OK.  My problem is very unpredictable and happens
infrequently enough that I have no clue where to look next, and I have no
idea how to reproduce the symptom with the hood up.  The local Land Rover
dealer of course recommends an upwards of $650 tune-up (excuse me!). Someone
on the list previously suggested the throttle plate and throttle position
sensor?  Anyone out there who has solved a similar problem?

Guy della-Cioppa
Guy dell@aol.com
90 RR County (Beluga Black)
50 Plymouth P-19 Fastback
66 VW Camper

------------------------------

From: Rick Snyder <snyderr@hpanvs.an.hp.com>
Subject: IIA Servo Question
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 11:55:18 EDT

I'm now in the process of restoring my IIA 88" which has been
sitting (sigh) since my oldest child was born eight years ago!

When last driven I was never too sure if the brake servo was doing
it's thing and now, after eight years, I don't have a way to test
it in the vehicle.  I've pulled it out (pedal and all) and it looks
pretty ragged - the master cylinder was stuck in it preety good but
I was able to pry it off and look at all the accumulated rust in
between it and the servo.

These things are pretty expensive so I have a couple of questions -

Is there a way to test the servo on the bench?

If the sevro housing is intact (no rust-through) how likely is
it that it needs to be replaced?

Rick Snyder
Chester N.H.
'71 SIIA

------------------------------

From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: RE: D90 Owners...
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 9:58:04 MDT

David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu> says:

  I have owned my '94 D90 since Dec. 1993, and *love* it. 

Had my '94 D90 hardtop since April '95 and love mine too!

  [clip]

  Most of my time in the D90 is spent on pavement, in the suburbs and
  city of Seattle (commuting to work to *pay* for the thing!)  and I
  enjoy being able to take the top off and windows out and sitting high
  enough to look out over the traffic -- to the mountains where I wish I
  was heading.

Ditto.  I commute ~20 miles (R/T) a day and don't find it stressfull at
all. The hardtop does help cut down on noise; you can almost hear the
radio at highway speeds!

  [clip]

  Mine had a rattle coming from the rear tire carrier, which I found was
  due to a loose lug-nut:  easy fix.  Several months ago, somebody
  posted a more serious problem with their rear tire carrier (leaking
  grease maybe?)  And Land Rovers DO have personalities:  which *may*
  include unique squeeks and/or leaks.

My tire carrier rattles a bit too, and the "quiet" hardtop allows me
hear it even better :-( I once found that two (!)  of the lower mounting
bolts had come loose, but tightening them did not make the rattle go
away.  I'll check my lug nuts, but I don't think that'll fix it - the
sound comes from loose fitting hinges.

D90's do have personalities.  I noticed a rather strange phenomenon on
my last road trip:  the interior is cooler with the windows closed!
When you open a window it apparently creates a suction force that draws
hot air from the bottom the the vehicle through the seat boxes and into
the cab.  The seat boxes and seats get extremely hot (this can't be good
for the battery [or seat leather & foam] can it?).  Close the windows
and everything cools down; seat boxes become cold to the touch!  Weird!

So, if you live in a hot climate get the optional A/C.  I don't have it
but sometimes wish I did.

I've considered taking my sliding windows to a shop to have a couple
more slots machined into the rails, allowing more than one locking
position.  Anyone done this?

Other brain storms:  have custom sliding side windows intalled in the
hardtop; install a sun roof (may be impossible to seal due to corrugated
roof).  I'll probably go for real functionality first, like ARB lockers
and a winch.

--
Jeffrey J. Gauvin		email: jeff.gauvin@symbios.com
Symbios Logic Inc.		Voice: 719-573-3563
1635 Aeroplaza Dr.		FAX: 719-573-3824
Colorado Springs, CO 80916

------------------------------

From: Andrew Grafton <A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Frame Oiling
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 17:07:51 BST

> I take it that river in Yorkshire, means proper disposal. I tend to enjoy
> canoeing, and oil is tough to get off the canoe.

I think I have this one solved.  There's this chap here whose car 
burns so much oil that everyone else gives him their old engine
oil.  It gets used twice, and ends up as small droplets protecting
the paintwork of cars that follow him along the road.
What could be better?!  <joke>
He likes LR oil 'cause it is thick and stops some of the strange
engine noises.

It's an Austin Maestro and is absolutely, definitely, 100% certain 
to fail the MOT this year.

All the best,

Andy
A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Frame Oiling
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 17:02:20 BST

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
> >not allowed anywhere near your pride and joy!
> Russ Burns________________________________________________________________
> CiscoSystems
That's the whole point! According to Yorkshire Water,there *arent* any
rivers in Yorkshire.Not now,anyway.

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: jory@figment.mit.edu (Jory Bell)
Subject: If OS's were beers... (fwd)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:48:31 -0400 (EDT)

Forwarded message:
>From mlbarrow@nog.netf.org Tue Sep 26 09:12:01 1995
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 09:10:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael L. Barrow" <mlbarrow@nog.netf.org>
Subject: If OS's were beers...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

This is sorta stupid, but kinda funny....

-- mlb

---------- Forwarded message ----------

If Operating Systems Were Beers...

DOS Beer:
Requires you to use your own can opener, and requires you to read the
directions carefully before opening the can. Originally only came in
an 8-oz. can, but now comes in a 16-oz. can. However, the can is
divided into 8 compartments of 2 oz. each, which have to be accessed
separately.  Soon to be discontinued, although a lot of people are
going to keep drinking it after it's no longer available.

Mac Beer:
At first, came only a 16-oz. can, but now comes in a 32-oz. can.
Considered by many to be a "light" beer. All the cans look identical.
When you take one from the fridge, it opens itself. The ingredients
list is not on the can. If you call to ask about the ingredients, you
are told that "you don't need to know." A notice on the side reminds
you to drag your empties to the trashcan.

Windows 3.1 Beer:
The world's most popular. Comes in a 16-oz. can that looks a lot like
Mac Beer's. Requires that you already own a DOS Beer. Claims that it
allows you to drink several DOS Beers simultaneously, but in reality
you can only drink a few of them, very slowly, especially slowly if
you are drinking the Windows Beer at the same time. Sometimes, for
apparently no reason, a can of Windows Beer will explode when you
open it.

OS/2 Beer:
Comes in a 32-oz can. Does allow you to drink several DOS Beers
simultaneously. Allows you to drink Windows 3.1 Beer simultaneously
too, but somewhat slower. Advertises that its cans won't explode when
you open them, even if you shake them up. You never really see
anyone
drinking OS/2 Beer, but the manufacturer (International Beer
Manufacturing) claims that 9 million six-packs have been sold.

Windows 95 Beer:
You can't buy it yet, but a lot of people have taste-tested it and
claim it's wonderful. The can looks a lot like Mac Beer's can, but
tastes more like Windows 3.1 Beer. It comes in 32-oz. cans, but when
you look inside, the cans only have 16 oz. of beer in them. Most
people will probably keep drinking Windows 3.1 Beer until their
friends try Windows 95 Beer and say they like it. The ingredients
list, when you look at the small print, has some of the same
ingredients that come in DOS beer, even though the manufacturer
claims that this is an entirely new brew.

Windows NT Beer:
Comes in 32-oz. cans, but you can only buy it by the truckload. This
causes most people to have to go out and buy bigger refrigerators.
The can looks just like Windows 3.1 Beer's, but the company promises
to change the can to look just like Windows 95 Beer's - after Windows
95 beer starts shipping. Touted as an "industrial strength" beer, and
suggested only for use in bars.

Unix Beer:
Comes in several different brands, in cans ranging from 8 oz. to 64
oz.  Drinkers of Unix Beer display fierce brand loyalty, even though
they claim that all the different brands taste almost identical.
Sometimes the pop-tops break off when you try to open them, so you
have to have your own can opener around for those occasions, in
which
case you either need a complete set of instructions, or a friend who
has been drinking Unix Beer for several years.

AmigaDOS Beer:
The company has gone out of business, but their recipe has been
picked up by some weird German company, so now this beer will be an
import.  This beer never really sold very well because the original
manufacturer didn't understand marketing. Like Unix Beer, AmigaDOS
Beer fans are an extremely loyal and loud group. It originally came
in a 16-oz. can, but now comes in 32-oz. cans too. When this can was
originally introduced, it appeared flashy and colorful, but the
design hasn't changed much over the years, so it appears dated now.
Critics of this beer claim that it is only meant for watching TV
anyway.

VMS Beer:
Requires minimal user interaction, except for popping the top and
sipping.  However cans have been known on occasion to explode, or
contain extremely un-beer-like contents.  Best drunk in high pressure
development environments.  When you call the manufacturer for the
list of ingredients, you're told that is proprietary and referred to
an unknown listing in the manuals published by the FDA.  Rumors are
that this was once listed in the Physicians' Desk Reference as a
tranquilizer, but no one can claim to have actually seen it.

* end *

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:03:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Various Questions

On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, John Y. Liu wrote:

> Here's the questions.  I can't raise the truck more than an inch (preferably
> not at all), or it won't fit in my carport with a roof rack.  Will new
> springs raise a Rover?

Yes if the old ones have sagged. I put new stock springs on the rear and 
it raised the vehicle about an inch then settled so the net gain was 
probably half that. I used 2 left hand springs (slightly longer than the 
right hand ones) which corrected the list to starboard seen on most North 
American Range Rovers of 87-90.  Otherwise, I've heard of folks putting 
Disco springs in the rear (stiffer so make the rear higher) and putting 
the old rear RR springs on the front. Talk to Mike at Rovers North about 
this.  Finally, "heavy duty" springs can be had, as can lifted ones, but 
they might all be bad for your garage.

Can anyone suggest an economical source for new road
> springs (for delivery to Los Angeles)?
I got some from Atlantic British at not too outrageous a price

  And should I use the regular black > rubber bushes or look for those
polyurethane bushes that are brightly > colored like popsicle sticks?  If
you are more interested in flexibility, preserving the soft ride, and
better off roading -- rather than sports car handling, use the original
rubber bushes. The popsicle ones claim all sorts of wonderful advantages
in (on-pavement) handling etc due to the fact they are stiffer. In my
opinion, stiffness is bad except on the racetrack or establishing record
slalom speeds.  Popsicles also claim to last longer, which is probably
true. 

 Finally, besides penetrating oil, a hacksaw,
> heat, and a big hammer, are there any magic tricks for extracting and
> inserting bushings? 

A hydraulic shop press is a good thing if you feel like springing for 
one. You'll soon find a hammer or squeezing in the vise doesn't hack it.

Good luck and cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 11:02:38 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: RR problems resolved except one. RE: RR prblms resol except 1

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: RR problems resolved except one. RE: RR prblms resol except 1
=========================================================================
>From: Guydell@aol.com
>I have a similar problem in my 90 RR where the engine cuts and hesitates
>especially during acceleration onto the highway. Sometimes this also happens

                    <<< Band reduction snippage.... >>>

>sensor? Anyone out there who has solved a similar problem?
========================================================================

I'm determined to locate the source of this problem... almost at *any* cost.
I will post my findings to the LRO list when I get it fixed. I too have new
plugs, cap, rotor, throttle position sensor (potentiometer?), fuel filter
and the fuel pump pressure checks out OK. Mine seems to be a continual
problem, and does not correct itself within minutes. Should be easy to
duplicate to the dealer with a test ride.

Oh yeah, I tried several bottles of Techron as well. (My 1st thought.)

The service manager at the dealer suggested that it could be the ignition
amplifier, distributor, throttle air meter, ECU, or even the alternator.
I've spoken with 2 other "LR specialty" repair facilities, and they have
both referred me to the dealer for the troubleshooting, since they can
literally "plug and play" (replace one thing to see if it fixes it, then
another, and another, etc...) whereas the independent shop would have to
purchase each component, and most likely couldn't return them once
installed.

Today I'm having the headliner replaced, so maybe Tomorrow....

Oh! And speaking of the alternator, I noticed that at night, the "charge"
light glows very dimly at idle, but when you rev the engine it goes out.
Is this "normal" ("normal" that is, for Joe Lucas.)? Lights on or off didn't
seem to make any difference.

P.S. Any takers on the "Isuzu Amigo" challenge? I wish I were closer, I'd
take them on with the RR or maybe even better, the 88! It'd be fun to see
a 25 year old rig run circles around him!

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 11:44:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: RR problems resolved except one. RE: RR prblms resol except 1

On Tue, 26 Sep 1995 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV wrote:

> I'm determined to locate the source of this problem... almost at *any* cost.
> I will post my findings to the LRO list when I get it fixed. I too have new
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
> The service manager at the dealer suggested that it could be the ignition
> amplifier, distributor, throttle air meter, ECU, or even the alternator.

This sounds really worrying, and I wish one of us could suggest an instan 
solution. It really sounds like something is wrong with the computerized 
injection system, consisting of the components you mention. (I can't see 
how it could be the alternator though???). Does the problem occur when 
you put your foot on the gas only, or is it a steady state thing as well? 
perhaps an exact specification of the symptoms would help (though you 
probably posted them before and I forgot, but it looks like it would be 
worth a second round!)

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Subject: Please stop
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 14:54:12 -0500
From: Wood Bill <billwood@inch.com>

-- [ From: Wood Bill * EMC.Ver #2.5.03 ] --

I've made over a dozen requests to several addresses to remove my name from
the Land Rover owners mailing list. If anyone knows how to stop this, please
let me know.

I've received 50 new messages since my last request a few hours ago. I am
leaving town for two weeks very soon and am worried that I will lose
valuable real e-mail because my server will get overloaded and start
chucking mail out. I had no idea how much mail this would generate when I
subscribed. I've tried everything but let me try again.

unsubscribe land-rover-owner Bill Wood <billwood@inch.com>

unsubscribe land-rover-owner billwood@inch.com

unsubscribe <land-rover-owner> <billwood@inch.com>

unsubscribe (land-rover-owner)

unsubscribe land-rover-owner

unsubscribe land-rover-owner Bill Wood billwood@inch.com

unsubscribe land-rover-owner Land Rover Owner

unsubscribe (land-rover-owner)

unsubscribe (land-rover-owner Land Rover Owner)

------------------------------

From: johng@iafrica.com
Date:          Tue, 26 Sep 1995 20:56:46 +0000
Subject:       LH footwell Heat

Hi

Has anyone any suggestions on reducing the heat generated by the 
exaust  pipe in the LH footwell of a SIIA.  I have spoke to the local landie 
guru and his reply was "Place a tarpaulin in the footwell bacause 
that is the way it is with heat in a landie".  I don't accept that 
answer and would like to here from someone who has solved this 
problem, or at least reduced the problem.

Best wishes

John G
__________________________________________________________

John N Groome
PO Box 12628
Benoryn 1504
South Africa

Tel  : +27 11 973-3403
Fax  : +27 11 973-3283
Cell : +27 82 442-6281
email: johng@iafrica.com
___________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 12:06:07 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Re: RR problem...

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Re: RR problem...
From: Dave Brown <debrown@srp.gov> >

>> I'm determined to locate the source of this problem... almost at *any*
>> cost. I will post my findings to the LRO list when I get it fixed. I too
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>> continual problem, and does not correct itself within minutes. Should be
>> easy to duplicate to the dealer with a test ride.  Oh yeah, I tried

>> Oh yeah, I tried several bottles of Techron as well. (My 1st thought.)
>> several bottles of Techron as well. (My 1st thought.)

>> The service manager at the dealer suggested that it could be the ignition
>> amplifier, distributor, throttle air meter, ECU, or even the alternator.

>From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>

>This sounds really worrying, and I wish one of us could suggest an instan
>solution. It really sounds like something is wrong with the computerized
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>probably posted them before and I forgot, but it looks like it would be
>worth a second round!) > >Cheers > >John Brabyn >89RR

Here goes: "normal", light throttle pressure driving around town seems
normal. Medium to heavy acceleration will usually, but not always cause jerky
stuttering, like the key is being turned off and on. Full throttle (floored)
will work normally. Also, at speeds over around 50MPH and below around 82MPH
I get the same results. Trying to maintain a speed on a flat, level road
will minimize the effect, but it is still noticeable. Deceleration is
normal.

Thanks,

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:40:07 -0700
From: shibumi@cisco.com (Kenton A. Hoover)
Subject: Re: RR problems resolved except one. RE: RR prblms resol except 1

>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>Is this "normal" ("normal" that is, for Joe Lucas.)? Lights on or off didn't
>seem to make any difference.

Your fan belt is slipping on the alternator.  I had a problem with my 87 RR
eating fan belts left and right.  It used to eat them every 500 miles like
clockwork.  It stopped after 3000 miles worth.  Have them check the tension
and alignment.

| Kenton A. Hoover                  Staff Technologist |  shibumi@cisco.com |
| Engineering Computer Services                        |                    |
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
|   10 or more days never recover.  Ever."                                  |
|                          -- PC Week, Febraury 6, 1995, page 129           |

------------------------------

From: Trefor Delve <delve1t@nectech.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Wierd Generator Stuff
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 20:50:00 GMT

Tim,

On the 21st of September, you posted a query regarding the charging warning 
light on your 66 IIa.  I have seen no reply so I thought I would answer.

I'm not to sure if by Generator you mean dynamo or alternator.  If it is an 
alternator, the charging light remains on when a diode in the rectifier pack 
has blown (or more correctly has gone short circuit).  If however you have a 
dynamo on the IIa, I don't know the answer.

In the UK, you used to be able to buy a service kit for Lucas alternators 
which included a rectifier pack.  But it is now cheaper to buy an exchange 
unit instead.

Trefor.
tdelve@nectech.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 13:21:21 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: '87 RR problem, o2 sensor maybe?

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: '87 RR problem, o2 sensor maybe?
Kenton suggested an o2 sensor may be the problem with the '87 RR stuttering.
I called around (big surprise, none of the "locals" had it) and the dealer
wants $226.98 *each* (there's two of them!) Then I called "my friends" at
British Pacific, and they're getting some aftermarket (Lucas) units in, but
not for a few weeks. Price will be around half the dealer's price. He said
"around the $80 range, about half the dealer's price." Did I really say
"almost *any* price?"

Anyone know how to test an o2 sensor?

Dave (short on oxygen?) Brown

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

From: ross@secant.com (Ross Leidy)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 16:28:33 0500
Subject: Thanks to all

Thanks to everyone who responded with their opinions of the D90 and Land
Rovers in general.  After reading all your comments, I now feel that if I
passed-up buying one I'd end up losing all self-respect.

I neglected to mention in my post, that I currently own an 86 Alfa Romeo
Spider.  I bought it nearly 10 years ago, and now that it's time for
something new, I can't imagine buying something without a soft-top.  I am
used to driving a vehicle where the stereo is just  a device to boost the
noise level, so many of the D90 idiosyncracies (features) should be
familiar to me.  Be that as it may, there's  nothing like a top-down drive
on a sunny day.  (I thoroughly enjoyed  the D90 test drive; top off, of
course.)

Thanks again for all your comments.  

Ross

+----------------------------+
| Ross Leidy                 |
| Senior Software Engineer   |
| Secant Technologies, Inc.  |
| Beachwood, Ohio            |
| ross@secant.com            |
+----------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 14:33:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: '87 RR problem, o2 sensor maybe?

On Tue, 26 Sep 1995 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV wrote:

> SUBJECT: '87 RR problem, o2 sensor maybe?
> Kenton suggested an o2 sensor may be the problem with the '87 RR stuttering.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> "almost *any* price?"
> Anyone know how to test an o2 sensor?

Normally when the oxygen sensor goes the EFI light comes on, but no doubt 
there's a way for it to fail without triggering the light!!

I had one renewed recently and the total cost including diagnosis and 
installation was about $250 at the dealer.

I think the test indicated in the manual is just a resistance test, but 
I've read in other books about looking at the voltage on it while the 
engine is running -- it should cycle up and down. 

Cheers

John

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 22:59:25 +0100 (BST)
From: nickfull@pavilion.co.uk (Mr N J Fuller)
Subject: Re: Fuel tank pressure

Hi fellow LRO's 
Have just found a rather strange fault on my 110 TD CSW and would appreciate
any help
in solving it.
Following a couple of short trips recently I noticed a diesel spillage
originating from the fuel filler cap. The fuel cap , filler neck and
associated fittings appear in good condition with no obvious signs of damage
, the fuel level was about a quarter full.
When the fuel cap was taken off a fair bit of pressure was released from the
tank.
Checked out my workshop manuals which show that there is not a vent on the
tank ,only fuel out and fuel return lines . Next I checked that none of the
injectors was dead by slackening the fuel line to each of them with the
engine running , all working ok. Fuel filter is clean with no signs of water
in the fuel sedimentor , don't know what to check next !
 Thanx in advance 
                          Nick

------------------------------

Date: 26 Sep 95 17:59:08 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Misc. RR problems resolved except one.

> 15.5 MPG) there seems to be a remaining (or new) problem. At speeds of over
> 50 MPH it surges very badly. This didn't start until the return trip, and
...
> Anyone else have this? Or have any suggestions? (Again, replaced fuel pump,
> water temp senser, throttle potentiometer (sp?), fuel filter.)

Let's see...  I notice you haven't metioned the air flow sensor (the 'box'
with the black plastic cap and the thick cable on it just behind the air
filter). The 'flap' inside the sensor can be obstructed by dust/crud and
'hang' at certain positions, and the effect can be exactly the 'surge' you
describe. Picture this: You accelerate by more or less gradually depressing
the pedal, thereby opening the throttle flap and at the same time turning
the throttle potentiometer. The potentiometer gives signals to the ECU to
deliver more 'juice' and accelerate firing and injection order. The increased
vacuum sucks in more air, the flap in the air flow sensor opens and...
suddenly hangs, thus limiting the air flow. This in turn leads to the
vacuum controled timing advance being retarded, so at that moment you have
an over-rich mixture combined with retarded ignition timing resulting in
power lag and zero-acceleration. As you continue depressing the pedal,
vacuum increases until the hanging flap finally breaks free and flings wide
open, air gushes in, the timing abruptly jumps way in advance, and... vrooom,
off you go!  - Then again it could be something entirely different, like a
nervous twitch in the foot...  ;-)
Oh yes, if you do decide to clean/flush the air flow sensor, *do not* use
lightly inflammable solvent! The result can be a terrific backfire on
next startup, ripping apart the sensor (don't ask... #-( ).

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: 26 Sep 95 17:59:00 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: RR FAQ / Buyer's Guide?

> local Mercedes dealer) but I was wondering if anybody out there has put
> together a buying guide for used Rangies or maybe a list of the known
> trouble spots and their associated fixes ...

(John Brabyn:)
> Sounds like it's time for a RR FAQ, doesn't it?

(Dixon:)
>       1.      How do you tell them apart?  (various years)
        
Good question.
Though Dixon would seem predestined to compile such a FAQ, I'd gamble that
hell freezes over and palms sway at Lake Ontario before he'd get seriously
involved with Range Rovers, of all things. Then again, miracles do happen...
sometimes...

WRT known trouble spots, have a good look and ear on the transmission/
gearbox. Both boxes (main and T-case) should have sufficient and clean oil
of the correct type in them, shouldn't leak excessively, not have too much
slack ('banging' when taking foot off gas), and not produce any grinding
noise (a slight 'whine' is normal). Check out this: Run the engine in neutral
and listen closely to the gearbox. Depress clutch and listen if sound/noise
changes, i.e. if the gears run more silent. Slowly release clutch (always
in neutral) and pay attention whether a grinding, scraping noise comes on
and stays. If it *does*, then the layshaft bearings are on their way to
destruction. If you intend to do any serious offroading or heavy towing with
your prospective vehicle, don't purchase a car with those symptoms as the
gearbox won't last very long. (YMMV as usual) This check obviously doesn't
apply to an automatic.

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 18:20:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: RR FAQ / Buyer's Guide?

On 26 Sep 1995, Stefan R. Jacob wrote:

> Though Dixon would seem predestined to compile such a FAQ, I'd gamble that
> hell freezes over and palms sway at Lake Ontario before he'd get seriously
> involved with Range Rovers, of all things. Then again, miracles do happen...
> sometimes...

	I can be bribed... A nice early 70's two door appearing in my 
	laneway next to the Mini, 109, & Saab might just send the
	interloper down the road... :-)  Of course, we would have to,
	ahem, test the Range Rover first to see if it lives up to
	its august billing... <grin>

	Rgds,

	PS.  Eurolink?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 15:59:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Misc. RR problems resolved except one.

On 26 Sep 1995, Stefan R. Jacob wrote:

> filter). The 'flap' inside the sensor can be obstructed by dust/crud and
> 'hang' at certain positions, and the effect can be exactly the 'surge' you
> describe.

Sounds like a good theory -- but is there actually a flap inside the air 
flow sensor?? I thought it was called a "Hot Wire" mass flow sensor and 
had no moving parts. I am most likely wrong, though, as I've not had mine 
apart!!

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 16:38:16 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: 88 blank sides wanted

I'm looking for a used pair of windowless utility sides from an 88 hardtop for a
project I'm working on.

I would like for the sides to be in excellent physical condition.  The rear 
corner or back of the sides can be in poor shape.  The rear windows can be 
missing.  They can be in any colour(s).  I only plan to use the front 2/3rds of 
each side.

Does anyone have a pair they are willing to ship to me (or I can pick up if they
are within 500 miles of the San Francisco Bay area)?

TeriAnn
twakeman@apple.com

With not-very-secret project 2-Doormobile

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 17:03:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: RR FAQ / Buyer's Guide?

On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, Dixon Kenner wrote: (regarding Range Rovers)

> 	1.	How do you tell them apart?  (various years)
> 	2.	What were the different configurations and options?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> 	2.	What were the different configurations and options?
> 	3.	What do you look for when you buy one?  (rust etc)

Dixon  -- good to see your interest in Range Rovers is intensifying, and 
you're finally being weaned off those other models!!
(Seriously -- thanks for your support of the FAQ idea).

As far as how to tell them apart, I can contribute the following about 
the US spec models anyway -- 

"How to tell them apart"

1987 & 1988 models are distinguished externally from all other years by
the exhaust outlet being turned out to the (left) side at the tailpipe. 
Internally, have old style door trim, 3.5 engine and gear driven transfer
case with manual diff lock

1989 and all later have tailpipe turned down and airdam with more holes,
and if you peep inside you'll notice the new style of door trim came in.
89 had old style (thin) plastic rocker trim, and half way through 89 the 
exterior door hinges disappeared. Internally -- 3.9 engine and chain 
driven transfer case with automatic (viscous) locking diff. Also during 
1989 County model introduced with large amounts of burlwood trim. Range 
Rover wins Four Wheeler of the Year award by a landslide margin.

1990 -- New deeper plastic rocker trim, otherwise similar external 
appearance. Internally -- antilock brakes added. Regular and County 
models continue.

1990/91 limited "Great Divide" model produced similar to 1990 County but 
with American walnut trim instead of burl, external logos and one-piece 
bumper/brushbar.

1991 -- Gas filler flap moved upward and rearward (due to increased tank
capacity) is only outward difference; from behind the swaybars can be seen
on "regular" and County models. Hunter model introduced (500 produced
only) which had none (also had cloth trim and no airdam). Internally -- 
minor differences such as "improved" EFI sensors.

1992 -- Glass sunroof replaces old style metal one. Land Rover logo 
appears on tailgate. 2 models: regular (similar to Hunter but with 
airdam and leather) and County (beaucoup wood trim and sway bars).

1993 -- County LWB introduced (108" wheelbase with electronic air
suspension and 4.2 litre engine); outer appearance 8 inches rear door. 
Coil sprung 100" wheelbase model continued as County with 3.9 engine.

1994 -- County LWB continues as main model. Dash layout refurbished
w/airbags. Short run of regular 100 inch County produced with air
suspension and old style dash w/out airbags. 

1995 --County LWB continues for a while before being replaced by 4.0 SE 
with new body shape. Short wheelbase (100 inch) model returns as County 
Classic with County LWB style dash, air suspension, 3.9 engine, and County 
Classic logo on tailgate. 

Maybe these are oversimplified and some details could be wrong, but it's 
a start. Can someone put it on an FAQ???

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Date: 26 Sep 95 21:27:46 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Misc. RR problems resolved except one.

> Sounds like a good theory -- but is there actually a flap inside the air 
> flow sensor?? I thought it was called a "Hot Wire" mass flow sensor and 

Depends...  the 'hot wire' type sensor was first used in late '88 models.
Yours being a '89 model, it *theoretically* should have one, and my theory
would be obsolete in your case.
You needn't take the sensor apart, just remove the hose connecting it to
the air filter and look inside. Poke your finger in and see if there's a
flap you can move backwards. If not, then my observations won't help you.
Another thing that could hang, though, is the distributor base plate.
But I'd be very reluctant to fiddle around with an Efi distr.

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Subject: LAND ROVER TOY NEWS
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 20:07:37 -0500

The September and October issues of MODEL COLLECTOR out of the UK have 
stuff on Land Rovers.

bfn

Robin

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Subject: LAND ROVER STAMP NEWS
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 20:08:46 -0500

Will be selling sets of Land Rover stamps soon, am just arranging them.

Will post a description and price and let people bid on them, first 
replies not being the ones accepted but the highest after closeout date.

Rgds

Robin Craig

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: '87 RR problem, o2 sensor maybe?
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 18:45:28 PDT

It seems that Range rovers do not have Ox sensors, they have Lambda sensors
now the scary part
Lambda: An electrial neutral subatomic particle in the baryon family(any
relation to the royal family) having a mass of 2,183 times that of an electron
and having a mean lifetime of 2.58*10E-10 
Does this mean that uncle lucas designed this sucker to last less than a second,or is he trying to measure something that lasts less (lot less) than a second?
If the second is true, then why bother ???

Sorry, on to the question.
it seems that the lambda sensor has two parts, a heating element, and a sensor

The heating element should have a resistance of 2.65 to 3.35 ohms
The heater coils also should have 12 V on them 
the sensor part should fluctuate between 0.50V and 1.00V

Now the best part, IF they pass the above specs, and the 
problem still exist, recheck with lucas diagnostic equipment.

I suppose uncle lucas's magic tester will create the problem
so it can be fixed 
 
The manual has some drawings that show how to measure the above, If you
want I could fax them to you.

Russ Burns

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)]
> |__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
> | _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.

------------------------------

From: kbossard@mgdestmx01.erin.gov.au
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 12:19:51 EST
Subject: Isuzu Diesel Engines

There has recently been some discussion on the 3.9 Isuzu diesel engine option in 
Australia. The engine used in the 110 is known as the 4BD1 while the version 
used in the 6X6 vehicles (mainly army vehicles known as Perenties) is 
turbocharged and designated 4BD1T. The 6X6 has a diff ratio of 4.7:1 rather than 
3.54:1 in the 110. The Isuzu diesel was only ever coupled to the LT95 gearbox as 
far as I am aware.

KarlB

ph  06 271 2189

fax:  06 273 2395

email: kbossard@mgdestmx01.erin.gov.au

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 19:43:53 -0700
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: 109 Shocks - Rancho Update

Well I found and fit Rancho shocks to Mathilda, my 109 SW.

The shocks used were:

5164 for the front
5117 for the rear.

According to 4 Wheel Parts Wholesalers in Oakland, CA the 
5164s are no longer available and I got the last of them.  

The ones to use for the front and rear respectively will 
be:

5119
5117

Thanks to all who supplied me with measurements suggested 
part #s etc.

Cheers,

Jeremy

P.S. Damn those rears are a pain to install.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 21:13:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: LH footwell Heat

On Tue, 26 Sep 1995 johng@iafrica.com wrote:

> Has anyone any suggestions on reducing the heat generated by the 
> exaust  pipe in the LH footwell of a SIIA.  I have spoke to the local landie 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> answer and would like to here from someone who has solved this 
> problem, or at least reduced the problem.

Get the heat shield made for the purpose.  It worked wonders in my 109 IIA.

Walt
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
               Walter C. Swain          |  wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us 
               Davis Community Network  |  1988 Range Rover
               Davis, California        |  1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 12:13:33 +0800 (WST)
From: TONY YATES  <tonyy@waalpha.wa.BoM.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: Isuzu Diesel Engines

> 3.54:1 in the 110. The Isuzu diesel was only ever coupled to the LT95 gearbox as 
> far as I am aware.

I know a couple of people with 5-speed Isuzu powered 110s. Not sure whether
they are LT77 or LT85 though.  I think they have different transfer ratios
due to the slogging truck like nature of the motor.

==========================================================
                                      ()  (  )      ()
Tony Yates                           (  ) (   )    (  )
Bureau of Meteorology               (    )(    ) (      )
Port Hedland                       (       )   )(        )
Western Australia                 (          ) ) --------
                                   ------------
ph:  (091) 401 350                 \\\**\\**\
fax: (091) 401 100                   \***\*\
                                       \\*\
email: A.Yates@bom.gov.au                \\

==========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 12:23:18 +0800 (WST)
From: TONY YATES  <tonyy@waalpha.wa.BoM.GOV.AU>
Subject: RE: D90 Owners...

On Tue, 26 Sep 1995, Jeff Gauvin wrote:

 D90's do have personalities.  I noticed a rather strange phenomenon on
 my last road trip:  the interior is cooler with the windows closed!
 When you open a window it apparently creates a suction force that draws
 hot air from the bottom the the vehicle through the seat boxes and into
 the cab.  The seat boxes and seats get extremely hot (this can't be good
 for the battery [or seat leather & foam] can it?).  Close the windows
 and everything cools down; seat boxes become cold to the touch!  Weird!

Isn't it just!  I've found the trick is to close the windows and open
the front vents. (Must get the A/C fixed one day...)

==========================================================
                                      ()  (  )      ()
Tony Yates                           (  ) (   )    (  )
Bureau of Meteorology               (    )(    ) (      )
Port Hedland                       (       )   )(        )
Western Australia                 (          ) ) --------
                                   ------------
ph:  (091) 401 350                 \\\**\\**\
fax: (091) 401 100                   \***\*\
                                       \\*\
email: A.Yates@bom.gov.au                \\

==========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 21:28:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Please stop

On Tue, 26 Sep 1995, Wood Bill wrote:

>>>>>> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net<<<<<

> I've made over a dozen requests to several addresses to remove my name from
> the Land Rover owners mailing list. If anyone knows how to stop this, please
> let me know.

Bill, 

This comes under the general heading of RTFM.  Send the message to 
majordomo@land-rover.team.net.  In the message  write "unsubscribe 
land-rover-owner" and the address you used to subscribe in the first 
place.  

Please bear in mind that the list is provided at no cost to you 
or to any of the rest of us.  Just because you didn't keep the 
information necessary to gracefully unsubscribe is no reason to vent.

If you subscribed using an alias or other variation on your e-mail 
address it will take a while for it to take effect if  you don't use the 
same address.  As a last resort send a note to majordomo-owner and 
politely ask to be taken off the list.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
               Walter C. Swain          |  wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us 
               Davis Community Network  |  1988 Range Rover
               Davis, California        |  1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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From: Leland J Roys <roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Fan Squeak
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 10:18:18 PDT

Hi,

Ok, please don't laugh, this may sound like a insignificant problem, but it
is driving me crazy. The fan on my 1994 Def-90 makes a mind rattling squeaking
sound (noticable when sitting at red lights), I know its the fan, because I
have sprayed it with WD-40 oil and the sound goes away, the problem is that
the annoying squeak comes back in 1 to 2 days, getting louder and louder. 

Is there any permanent way to solve this?

Leland Roys
roys@cup.hp.com
Cupertino CA.
1994 Def-90 (Red)

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:25:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: RR FAQ / Buyer's Guide?

On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, Richard Jones wrote:

> I have been keeping the Range Rover postings since the end of July with an FAQ
> in mind, so am happy to maintain the beast if you would prefer not to be dragged
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> started putting together for the UK models (takes a little longer than the US
> models, even with the lack of activity in the mid 70's :-)).

Great stuff Richard -- thanks from all of us!

John Brabyn
89RR

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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:45:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: RR starboard list

On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, Matt Snyder wrote:

> You mentioned that most 87-90 NA Range Rovers exhibit a starboard list.  
> What causes that?

It's caused by Solihulls' overcompensation for the slight off-center 
weight of the engine and driver. They use springs that are longer on the 
left side than on the right -- by nearly an inch on the front and half an 
inch on the rear. I think the theory is that when the driver is seated 
the vehicle is supposed to be level, but in practice the vehicle still 
leans a bit.

Cheers

John

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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:54:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: More bits about :Misc. RR problems resolved except one

On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, Trefor Delve wrote:

> QUESTIONS:
> 1) THROTTLE POTENTIOMETER
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> can take over control of engine idling; and the other to indicate full 
> throttle.  The demand signal comes directly from the mass flow sensor, 

On the RR the throttle potentiometer is just that -- a potentiometer. On 
88 or 89 and later it is "automatic calibrating".

> 4) IGNITION ISSUES

> Surely the Rovers have done away with timing advance on the distributor. 
>  The whole point of the ECU and Efi system is to combine the flywheel and 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> airflow signals in order that the ignition timing and quantity of fuel may 
> be adjusted accurately.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view) Rover is a
bit slow in adopting the latest advances in engine technology -- they
still up til recently had the timing advance controlled by the
distributor, with centrifugal and vacuum mechanisms. This has finally 
changed on the 4.0 SE. 

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

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From: ScottFugate_Group8@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 14:20:45 EDT
Subject: Travel Info Query -  Mid Atlantic Rally

If you're not a Virginian, skip to next message.

Can any of you Cavaliers out there enlighten me on the best route to the 
Mid-Atlantic Rally site from, say, the Roanoke vicinity (I-81) ? Go through 
Lynchburg?  Stay on Interstate up to Charlottesville?  Also, if there is 
anybody out there familiar with the general vicinity, how far is Buckingham 
Lodge (in Scottsville) from the Rally site?  My map doesn't have that level of 
detail.   I am forced to cram a lot of travelling (with spouse, two little 
boys, and  a trailered 88) into a short period of time, and want to have 
itinerary logically planned.

Thanks,

Scott Fugate
Tennesseean in ROAV

BT

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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:33:45 -0700
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Financing an older Land Rover

At 12:24 PM 9/27/95 -0400, you wrote:
>I would appreciate any information anyone has on financing an older model
>Land Rover. I have, in the past, inquired at my bank about purchasing
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>finance one (unless I find one that runs for about $1500). And since it seems
>bank aren't overly willing to finance such type cars, I'm left out in the
>cold, I guess. If anyone has some advice I would appreciate hearing it.
In the early 1980's I financed a 1965 Mustang, so it is possible.  However,
I recall I had to take out a personal loan, i.e. not a car loan
collateralized by the vehicle.

I don't recommend financing a Land-Rover that is going to cost $3,000 or so.
Most likely a truck at that price is going to need non-trivial repairs work
at some probably not too distant point.  It might cost $1,000, maybe $2,000,
maybe more.  (For example, my swivel ball rebuild including all bearings
resulted in a parts bill approaching $300, and labor would have been a few
hundred more if a mechanic had done the work.)  This might get spread out
over time, but maybe not.  If a hypothetical LR buyer is unable to come up
with $3,000, how will he or she will be able to afford the repairs and
sorting out necessary to keep the truck running?  Remember, it takes a long
while to find the right truck, and our hypothetical buyer can be salting
money away all that time. 

For a Land-Rover costing $10,000, financing makes more sense.  Try the
personal loan route or check the classifieds in _Autoweek_ for classic car
financing.  But given the number of Land Rovers selling for $3,000 and
$5,000, and the sort of cult-y nature of the beast, I'm skeptical if a
finance company would loan $10,000 on a Rover. 

I'd recommend saving pennies and buying an inexpensive Rover for cash, and
using the enforced delay to search out a good inexpensive truck.

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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:48:34 -0600 (MDT)
From: Rob Bailey <baileyr@cuug.ab.ca>
Subject: Really, really sorry...

I just took a look in my sent mail folder, and it looks like I sent out 
yesterdays digest to the list! I'm really sorry, I guess I wasn't 
watching what I was doing carefully enough. I promise to be more careful 
in the future.

Sorry,
Rob

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Date: 27 Sep 95 16:40:21 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: RR problems ... (continued)

> .... Medium to heavy acceleration will usually, but not always cause jerky
> stuttering, like the key is being turned off and on. Full throttle (floored)
> will work normally. Also, at speeds over around 50MPH and below around 82MPH

This more detailed description does in fact suggest an electric problem,
so the 'plug-&-play' troubleshooting method is probably to be recommended.
They should even go as far as to try out a whole new ECU.
Kenton A. Hoover's suggestion of the fan belt slipping on the alternator
sounds adventurous, but then these are Land Rovers - anything's possible!
But to become that noticeable, the belt would have to slip to the extent
that the alternator momentarily almost comes to a complete standstill.
Usually you can hear such slippage - an occasional squeaking or screeching -
unless you live in a very dry climate. Even with a correctly tightened pully
belt the alternator could act up if the alternator bearings are shot and
tend to seize. This, too, should produce 'noise'.

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

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Date: 27 Sep 95 17:07:44 EDT
From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: Misc. 27 th sept dig.

 24 volt land rovers have "12 Volt " ignition systems. on the top of the rocker
cover is a black box which is the voltage reducer.
 If you are concerned about the waterproof ignition system and expensive spark
plugs which last forever then you can change the complete sysyem for a standard
one.
 It is necessary to drill out the vacuum advance retard pipe on the carb to
enable the addition of the advance retard pipe.

The rr heavy duty front springs are the same part number as the standard rears.
It is therfore a good idea to use worn rear springs on the front because it
saves you buying new springs for both ends and they have a little more lift than
new standards without hardening up the front too much.

 John  G regarding 2a footwell heat, as standard 2a's were fitted with an
aluminmium heat shield which covered the rear half of the exhaust manifold ,
these are usually left off after any work in the area, try and find a
replacement, or simply make your own,

 Regards  Bill Leacock   Limey in exile.

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From: Ken Fowles <kenf@microsoft.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 13:40:24 PDT
Subject: RE: David Brown RR problem (throttle cuts out)

Mine's a 90 RR and I get exactly same thing at random
during 100% acceleration at 30+ mph / 50+ kph, typically
mountain pass driving.  Acts like someone yanked the
coil for about 1 long second, if I let off foot or keep
it to the floor, everything resumes ok.  Previous owner
(recent purchase) records show complete recent major
tune-up at the local Seattle dealership.

I haven't had time to dig under the hood, but I will
this weekend.  One possible lead is I looked at the
black box under passenger seat, jumbo LEDs consistently
say "17".  I really should buy the factory books from
Rovers North, unless people have other advice.

So I called the RR dealer, they say error code 17
indicates "bad pot" which I assume either means a bad
potentiometer somewhere in the fuel injection circuit,
or it means my RR has consumed something illegal.

Ken Fowles
kenf@microsoft.com

> From: Guydell@aol.com
> Subject: David Brown RR problem:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> especially during acceleration onto the highway.  Sometimes this also happens
> at constant acceleration.  The problem is erratic and unpredictable and
      [snip]
>> The service manager at the dealer suggested that it could be the ignition
>> amplifier, distributor, throttle air meter, ECU, or even the 
alternator.

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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 23:38:52 +0000
From: rnewell@dircon.co.uk (Russell Newell)
Subject: Rear springs on series III

Are the rear springs on my series III adjustable? They are according to the
Haynes manual(Chapter 13 Supplement). If so has anybody got any tips for
doing this.

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From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 18:43:58 EST
Subject: Re[2]: RR problems ... (continued)

     I have another theory re the problems David Brown is having with his 
     Range Rover. 
     
     The Range Rover fuel management system is basically controlling the 
     frequency and duration of the fuel injectors injecting fuel into the 
     inlet manifold. At idle it is also controlling the amount of air 
     entering the plenum chamber via the stepper motor. Fuel pressure is 
     kept constant at the injectors through the use of a fuel pressure 
     regulator. Manifold pressure is fed to the regulator operating on a 
     spring loaded diaphragm which opens and closes to allow more or less 
     fuel to return to the fuel tank. Under high engine load conditions, 
     such as accelerating, the manifold pressure increases (vacuum drops) 
     till at wide open throttle the manifold pressure is very close to 
     barometric pressure, at this point the diaphragm in the regulator is 
     no longer fighting the spring pressure and the system is operating 
     under maximum pressure (i.e. lowest rate of fuel return).
     
     Anyway, after this longwinded introduction, my theory is that if the 
     regulator is not working correctly then under load conditions there is 
     insufficient fuel pressure at the injectors resulting in a lean 
     mixture. This can cause hesitation and stumbling that feels similar to 
     an ignition problem ( similar to a defective accelerator pump in a 
     carb). Testing the fuel pressure with the ignition on and engine off 
     or with the engine at idle would not necessarily show this up.
     
     To see if this theory holds water (or gas) I would suggest the 
     following test. With a warm engine turn on all the electrical 
     accessories plus A/c with fan at high and see if with a light throttle 
     (around 1500 - 2000 rpm) you can feel the engine hesitating. If you 
     have a fuel pressure gauge see if the pressure is low, if so the 
     theory is true. If you don't have a fuel pressure gauge try 
     restricting the fuel return line slightly with a pair if pliers and 
     see if the engine smooths out.
     
     Am I being too imaginative?
     
     By the way I have owned and cared for a 87 Range Rover for nearly 5 
     years now and have only had it back to the dealers 3 times. The last 
     time was for a leaking fuel tank which is a common problem on older 
     Range Rovers (poor design) - Rover supplied the parts under warranty I 
     only paid the labour! I like my Range Rover so much that I bought its 
     twin last weekend ( a silver 87 with only 42500 miles on it compared 
     to the over 100K I have on mine).
     
     Let me know what you think of the theory.
     
     Regards
     Mike Lenaghan
     87 RR (1)
     87 RR (2)

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From: JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk.hp.com
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 19:34:00 -0400
Subject: possible solution to RR probl.

Greetings from the flatlands,

With all the troubleshooting talk going on about RR's, I thought I had
better re-type an article handed to me by a four-wheeling companion.

MOTOR   September 1995
(apparently some type of trade publication for ASE mechanics?)
Burned out coil
A weak ignition coil on a Range Rover, Defender 110, or Defender 90 with
the 3.9- or 4.2- liter V8 is most likely the result of an ignition module
that's gone haywire.  The current-sensing circuit in the module goes out
and pumps too much primary current to the coil.  Symptoms include power
loss and hard starting.  land Rover says less then 15kV of juice or a
dwell that's more than 15 deg. at idle means that the module is shot.

The fix is to replace the 2-pin module with a 3-pin (part no. STC1184)
and a jumper harness (part no. STC1212).  Then mount a new coil (part no.
PRC6574 for Bosch or RTC5628 for Lucas-they are interchangeable)

end

Forgive me if this is common knowledge.  I just thought I'd better submit
it.

Jim Cirbus
94 D-90
#730
(three wheel drive after a successful ARB install)

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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:12:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: RE: David Brown RR problem (throttle cuts out)

Ken your error message sounds like a bad throttle potentiometer. Lucky 
chap having an LED readout!!

Cheers

John

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From: kbossard@mgdestmx01.erin.gov.au
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 10:56:27 EST
Subject: Re: Isuzu Diesel Engines

Tony is correct. I made a mistake. The turbocharged Isuzu powered vehicles (ie 
the 6X6s) were only ever coupled to the LT95 gearbox as far as I am aware. 
According to the Australian Supplement to my Owners Manual the 5 speed Isuzu 
powered 110s (not turbocharged) were coupled to the LT85 box with an LT230T 
transfer (not the LR230T used with the 3.5 petrol V8). The 4.70:1 diff ratio was 
only for the 6x6s.

KarlB

ph:  06 271 2189

fax:  06 273 2395

email: kbossard@mgdestmx01.erin.gov.au

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Date: 27 Sep 95 21:38:58 EDT
From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com>
Subject: Reply to: RE: David Brown RR problem (th

 >> So I called the RR dealer, they say error code 17
 indicates "bad pot" which I assume either means a bad
 potentiometer somewhere in the fuel injection circuit,
 or it means my RR has consumed something illegal. <<

 Code 17 is actually for the Throttle Potentiometer

 The Test Procedure for the Throttle Potentiometer is:

 Part 1.
   Ignition Off / ECU Cable DISconnected
   Ohm Meter Reading of 4000-6000 Ohms between pins 3 & 25
      of ECU Connector.

 Part 2.
    Ignition On / ECU Cable CONNECTED
    Voltage Reading on Pin 20 Should be:
        0.085 to 0.545 volts (Throttle Closed)
        4.2 - 4.9 volts (Throttle Open)
     There should be a smooth transition between open
        and closed throttle positions.

 Hope this helps.

 Rob Dennis
 1990 RR
 1972 SerIII

 Rob Dennis
 Atlanta, GA USA
 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 27-Sep-1995

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From: kbossard@mgdestmx01.erin.gov.au
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 11:42:14 EST
Subject: Re: Isuzu Diesel Engines

Tony is correct. I made a mistake. The turbocharged Isuzu powered vehicles (ie 
the 6X6s) were only ever coupled to the LT95 gearbox as far as I am aware. 
According to the Australian Supplement to my Owners Manual the 5 speed Isuzu 
powered 110s (not turbocharged) were coupled to the LT85 box with an LT230T 
transfer (not the LR230T used with the 3.5 petrol V8). The 4.70:1 diff ratio was 
only for the 6x6s.

KarlB
ph:  06 271 2189
fax:  06 273 2395
email: kbossard@mgdestmx01.erin.gov.au

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 23:04:40 -0400
Subject: Series IIA for Sale

Mike Fredette in Phoenix has a 1967 88" Series IIA for sale.  I believe he's
asking $3250 for it.... or in that neighborhood.

I looked at the vehicle late this afternoon.  (I'm a rookie so take this with
a grain of salt.)  The body seemed to be in good shape considering that it is
the original color.  Mike says it runs well but I can't vouch for that.  He
had the dash in pieces when I stopped by.

Except for surface rust, I didn't see anything major regarding rust.

For questions, contact Mike directly at "mfredett@sedona.intel.com"

Regards......
Gerry

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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 01:16:36 -0400
From: dlawlor@specialty.com (Doug Lawlor)
Subject: Any plans to bring the Defender 90 in Canada?

        hello everyone,  was just wondering if the D90 was going to be
reintroduced into Canada as a new vehicle in 96 or 97?  I contacted a dealer
in Halifax Nova Scotia (no dealers in Newfoundland) and was told that it
hasn't been imported as a new vehical sense 94.  Something about it not
meeting Department of Transportation's emition standerts.  Are the emition
standerts in Canada higher than those of the US?  Are their states where the
Defender is not allowed to be sold?  Are there other reasons why the
Defender is not allowed to be imported?  

Doug
Specialty Access Consulting     Voice: (709) 773-0037
Suite 215 38 Pearson St.        Fax: (709) 773-1020
St. John's Nf. A1A 3R1          Internet: dlawlor@specialty.com

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From: jpappa01@interserv.com
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 20:46:43 PDT
Subject: Re: 	Rangey FAQ

BTW John, the Rangey info you listed was quite good - one minor correction 
needed - the `94 LWB did not have air bag dash. Indeed, it was the 95MY LWB 
that had the new dash with airbags. The only 94 Land Rover product to feature 
airbags was the Discovery.

cheerz
Jim

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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 00:13:57 -0400
From: bbonner@mail.htp.com (Brian Bonner)
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

What is an Amigo? Is it an Isuzu Trooper made by someone else, or is it
another version of the Vauxhall Frontera, which I understand is a
rebadged Japanese vehicle?

Well, it is a cute little thingy that in no way is a serious trail vehicle.
it is like a real short pickup with a soft top over the bed with no back
window. The challenge is just plain silly.
                     
Brian Bonner                    ++++++==\
'94 Red D90                     |---/|---\___
                                | _  |D90|_  |}
                         * * * ==(_)"""""(_)""

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From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: LT95 and oils
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 14:46:34 +0930 (CST)

lloyd asks:
> I am v. curious to know if hypoy is just "not necessary" in the LT95
> or actually harmful.

As all the gears in the lt95 transfer are straight cut I guess there is no
need for hypoid oil.

Several years ago I asked a few people about this, from what I recall it is
possible to use hypoy type oils in *some* boxes, allegedly benifitially, but
in others its bad news.  Why???

Well Hypoy gear oil is slightly acidic and engine oil is slightly alkaline (
or is it the other way around, Oh well).  Any way combining this with the
high sulpher content in gear oils can result in damage (corrosion) to the
thrust washers found in some transfer cases.

apparently there is/was two different metal formulations (white bearing and
bronze???) of thrust washer available, one is tolerant of hypoy the other
not.

Now as I cant remember any of the fine details of this story I figure its
safer just to stick with a good engine oil, cant go wrong that way.....

As an aside does anyone know what the OZ army is using now that FMX is no
longer available... TXT blend or a full synthetic perhaps????
 

cheers
-- 

  Daryl

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From: Brian Neill Tiedemann <s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: RRfaq++
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 16:34:48 +1000 (EST)

Someone seems to have left out the most important (biased mode off) of 
all RRs:those 2door things! They existed in OZ from 1970ish until 1984 in 
VERY similar forms. 4doors started here in 82 or thereabouts. Earliest 
2doors had more spartan interiors than the later ones. Not sure of the 
exact times of the changes, but the steering wheel is thicker in cross 
section, and has four spokes and a rectangular largish centre with Range 
Rover molded into it on on the later ones. Earlies had three spokes and a 
smaller round centre (labelled I think), and thinner cross section. Front 
seats are available in velour in the later version, and vinyl before. 
Rear seat mount is via two hinges at the outer extremes near the front of 
early RRs, and later hinged under the front of the seat about 8" in from 
each side. Small side indicators on the front wings were only on later 2 
doors and 4doors. Handbrake handle is rubber padded and thicker on later 
2doors. Steering linkage protector is a late addition (option I think).
Vinyl floor mats in all models, fitted carpets over the top later on.
3.5litre V8 in all models(petrol), 8.13:1 CR until ~84 ish when 9.35:1 
appeared. Centre cubby box in later models. All 4speed LT95 (I think this 
is the correct designation) boxes until torque flite auto and 5 speed 
appeared in ~84.
I apologise for the vague nature of this info, but my (77) Rover has had 
all the later stuff fitted to it, and I am continually finding out that 
something or other really did not exist in 1977 models....

Tyres: I noticed that someone (Stefan?) stated that RRs could not fit 
large tyres under them.....
Well, this is true, BUT I have 9x32" Super Swamper mud tyres under mine 
for serious stuff, and all I have changed is a 2" body lift (off chasis). 
The tyres only just touch the front edge of the rear wheel arch at full 
articulation, and I have only managed that on one occasion offroad 
(checked beforehand though by jacking etc.). Steering lock stops had to 
come out a little further than standard, but turning circle only changed 
by ~2 metres.
With any luck I will try a set of Firestone SATs in 8.25 16 size next week...
I'll let you know how they go... 7.50 16s are the only size available 
here new lately.
I have seen BIG (35x12.5) tyres under RRs, but they look kinda silly, and 
seem to float too much in use. Guards had been chopped away and flared, 
and suspension and body lifted... parked next to a stock Vogue SE with 
air suspension, you would wonder what this thing had been eating to grow 
so big. 
Rover diffs and axles have a hard time with big, agressive tyres 
and low range, especially with boot applied, or towing a TLC up hills.

I use stock rims (steel), and have another set with Michellans for the road.

I can probably clarify the above info more later if need be (dates etc).

cheers,
BT.
77RR.

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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 00:18:42 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Max RPM's?

A question for the collective wisdom...  What would you say should be the 
maximum normal operating RPM's for a 1959 2.25l Land Rover 4-cyl in a 109" 
2-door?  

I think this is called "redline" here in the states, but I'm not sure.  I've 
been (trying) to keep it at or below 3000, but occasionally the Rover (Go go 
speed rover!) wants to go faster.  

In 4th OD, this translates into about 70mph+ which I really shouldn't be 
doing anyway, but sometimes I oversleep...  (And 280 *was* designed for 
90mph.)

Thanks!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 00:18:39 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: LROA Web Page has moved!

I've mucked around with the directory structure of the web pages I've 
maintained, which means that the LROA pages have moved.  If you have a direct 
link to them (formerly at "http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/lroa01.htm"), it 
should be updated to "http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/lroa/lroa01.htm".

(Basically, all I've done is put each set of pages in its own directory.)

My main home page remains the same (for now) at 
"http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn".  Note, though, that I am trying to find the 
time to set up my own net host, so once that's in place, it'll all change 
again.  Sorry!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

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