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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 20:06:01 +1000
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: roof strength

on Rangie alloy roof strength -
   in one of the "safari-genre" movies a grown male Lion sitting on the roof
   plainly reverses it's curvature - the Lion must weigh much less than
   a Rangie, inverted or otherwise.

Lloyd

------------------------------

From: BobandSueB@aol.com
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 11:11:46 -0400
Subject: Series LRO's in texas

On: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 8:48:52 -0500 (CDT)
Rusty Wrote:

>All,

>	I live in Galveston, Texas and I'm currently performing a
>frame up restoration on my '66 SER.IIA, safari.  I love the work, and
>I love my Rover; but I think I may be the only series IIA owner
>in the entire great state of Texas....

>	If anyone knows anyone in Texas who also owns a Series >Rover,
>please let me know.
>						Rusty Smith

------------------------------

Hi Rusty,
In our  LROA membership list,Which was in the latest issue of the newsletter,
we hava a number of series owners in Texas.
1-Spring TXx
1-Elgin
3-Houston
1-Arlington
1-Dallas

If you know someone in LROA look at their list, or email me for more.
I don't want to just put their address /phone on the list with out their
knowledge.

Bob B
LROA/NA 
Membership
BobandSueB@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 23:11:55 +0400 (MEDT)
From: michael ramage <mramage@rorqual.cc.metu.edu.tr>
Subject: New (?) Model model

Hello From Turkey, 
	I haven't subscribed to the net for 4 months, so sorry if this is 
a repeat of someone's previous post, BUT:

	I found what is to me a new model series last week.  1:32 die 
cast 90's made in china. It's really pretty slick - details follow.
There are three trucks in the series - A fairly standard green hard top 
90.  Only major problem is that is has leaf springs.  There is also a 
Pick-up cab tow truck, and a souped-up monster-truck sort (I didn't buy 
that one).
	The bodies are die cast metal, the rest is plastic.  A slick 
feature is that they all have 4WD friction motors.  (It actually works).  
Front doors open, and it comes with a plastic mud pile and dead tree.
	The manufacturer is New Ray Toys.

	If anyone is really interested, and can't find the model 
elsewhere, I'll be happy to go out and get some (they're about the 
equivalent of $10 each).  Please contact me directly at
	mramage@rorqual.cc.metu.edu.tr
if you're interested, as I'm not on the LRO.

Cheers, Michael

1971 Series IIa 88

Michael H. Ramage
Department of Geological Engineering
Middle East Technical University
Ankara, Turkey  06581

MRamage@rorqual.cc.metu.edu.tr

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 4:54:52 -24000
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	  Contents:
  1 s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU Fri Sep 22 07:02  102/5473  A/C compressors
  2 70004.4011@compuserve.com Fri Sep 22 07:54   20/1045  Your brakes
  3 crash@merl.com     Fri Sep 22 08:09   36/1787  Synthetics in the gearbox
  4 100043.2400@compuserve.com Fri Sep 22 09:03   26/1155  Re: Disco steel and lack 
  5 wharton@mail.scra.org Fri Sep 22 09:29   49/2112  Comic Strip Humor (Humour
  6 James.Curtis@newcastle.ac.uk Fri Sep 22 09:45   45/1966  Thanks.
  7 haslam@alcor.concordia.ca Fri Sep 22 09:47   28/1410  88 RR: Radio loses code
  8 skidmore@mail02.mitre.org Fri Sep 22 09:52   42/2065  
  9 BobandSueB@aol.com Fri Sep 22 09:59   49/2303  tire pump (air conditione
 10 TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA Fri Sep 22 10:09   33/1913  New (?) Series III
 11 garym@cais.cais.com Fri Sep 22 10:37   22/1224  LR on TV
 12 DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM Fri Sep 22 10:39   44/2482  Turner engine update
 13 haslam@alcor.concordia.ca Fri Sep 22 12:04   46/2286  Re: 88 RR: Radio loses co
 14 brabyn@skivs.ski.org Fri Sep 22 12:04   30/1168  New RR Follows Tradition
 15 cs@crl.com         Fri Sep 22 12:17   32/1651  Re: New (?) Series III
 16 Gerry.Mugele@wellsfargo.com Fri Sep 22 12:25   42/2406  Tired of Tires
 17 matts@cacilj.caciasl.com Fri Sep 22 12:52   27/1125  US metaclub
 18 wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com Fri Sep 22 13:15   37/2008  Re: Chassis paint
 19 matts@cacilj.caciasl.com Fri Sep 22 13:28   24/1172  British license plates
 20 haslam@alcor.concordia.ca Fri Sep 22 14:31   21/1073  RR Swivel pin preloading
 21 ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu Fri Sep 22 14:47   46/2808  national assoc.
 22 lchung@sdcoe.k12.ca.us Fri Sep 22 15:09   49/2528  New Discovery
 23 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil Fri Sep 22 15:51   37/2310  Re: New (?) Series III
 24 kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com Fri Sep 22 16:34  129/6235  Re: New Discovery
 25 bennett@mv.us.adobe.com Fri Sep 22 17:16  133/5702  Re: New Discovery
 26 holland@catapent.com Fri Sep 22 18:57   28/1339  Defender Shop Manuals
 27 a-robw@microsoft.com Fri Sep 22 19:20   44/2150  Re: New Discovery
 28 Cw117h@aol.com     Fri Sep 22 20:04   50/2498  Greetings list!
 29 cs@crl.com         Fri Sep 22 20:32   56/2993  Re: Defender Shop Manuals
 30 ecoethic@rcinet.com Fri Sep 22 21:16   41/2502  Re: Chassis Paint & Ohio 
 31 rover@pinn.net     Fri Sep 22 21:25   56/3230  Mid-Atlantic Rover Rally

------------------------------

From: Brian Neill Tiedemann <s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: A/C compressors
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:00:22 +1000 (EST)

Hi all,
The thread on compressors prompts me to write...
I have been intending to modify my compressor fitments:
I currently carry a "toy" electric compressor on trips.
RR has dealer fitted A/C... here in oz in 77 the fitment used a "york" 
type compressor. I have spoken to many A/C specialist shops and from much 
BS, deduced that these "york" units are the thing to use if wanting to 
compress AIR, but fairly inefficient for refrigerants (hence most newer 
systems use some form of vane rotary compressor or "wobble plate" piston 
compressor. I have collected a new-second-hand rotary compressor which I 
intended to use to run my A/C, and had intended to convert the york for 
air supply (as my hombrew locker is air operated and I wish to also run 
air tools in the car every so often as well as tyre pumping after airing 
down). This may or may not happen now, as I am near the point of making a 
dedicated air compressor from scratch and driving it off a PTO or hydraulics.
Anyhow, here's some thoughts:

I intended to use a regular electric compressor cutout switch and a 
resivoir of sorts to allow a supply of air sufficient for short bursts of 
thirsty air tools. Setup is easy: a switch in the cabin supplies the 
whole circuit and turns the compressor clutch ON, but if this is routed 
through the normally closed contacts of the cutout switch (in series), 
and the switch is connected to the air reservoir's pressure, then the 
compressor will pump up the resivoir to the desired pressure, then 
disengage the clutch as the contacts open.

Reservoirs: have seen some creative ideas here- Pressurised tubular 
bullbar (all sections connected together); Pressurised chasis crossmember 
of early RR (two holes to be blocked up); Pressurised tubular rollcage; 
"Air Brake" reservoir a-la truck- many possibilities for creative thought. 
Only restrictions here are to ensure wall thickness and strength of 
whatever you wish to use are _safely_ able to cope with max pressure 
available.

"Nice" electric air control valves are available for industrial Pneumatics 
jobs. Often found at swap meets with mains coils-easy to buy and change 
the coils. The whole items can be expensive if bought new. Another option 
is those used in ARB air-locker kits, they (ARB) also have neat "Front/Rear 
Locker" labelled illuminated switches for their kits.

I have recently seen (in a 4X4 accessory joint) a kit which had a wobble 
plate type piston compressor (A/C type) with air fittings and an inlet 
filter added, being sold for ~350 dollars OZ (NOT equal to 350 bannnannnas)!
Same shop also had a neat 2 stage piston compressor with A/C style 
electric clutch and V-belt drive fitted (made in Sydney, OZ I think). 
This appeared to be well made and should be a real performer, but for $650 
 it would _want_ to be!!

On oilers, etc:
My impression is that you would want oil/water TRAPS, not oilers in the 
delivery line (unless operating hi speed turbine type tools-which is 
unlikely). This is especially true since the sump oil of most A/C systems 
is not permanently _in_ the compressor, it is pumped around to an extent 
with the refrigerant. A smart way around this problem might be some form 
of trap which also functions as a displacement lubricator, forcing clean 
oil into the compressor intake port as oil/water are removed from the 
pressure outlet air. This could keep the compressor happy. (more spots 
for oil to leak from .... AAAHHHHRGGGGH!)

I still need a PTO for the early RR four speed (LT 95 I think - is it?). 
Have only found solid gold new ones available here (custom made, of 
compressed MONEY).
;)

If I cannot find one soon, I will make up a belt driven hydraulic PTO 
from some kind of gear pump with an A/C clutch attatched I think.... hmmm.
This will work OK I think, but probably be considerably slower for 
winching than the direct drive option of a "post gearbox" PTO. The idea 
of four speed ranges in one direction, and a simple reverse with no 
valves/pipes/expensive hoses/OIL seems attractive.

Did I say no oil, oops, only the traditional Rover "External Splash 
Lubrication System", I meant no EXTRA oil/oil tanks.

rambling as usual,
I'll keep you posted about air system and PTO results...

cheeers,
BT  <--initials

BT  <-- "Break Transmission" ;}

------------------------------

Date: 22 Sep 95 08:49:32 EDT
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Your brakes

Geez, Tim... I'll fix them for you for a couple of 6-packs and a pizza.  You
just have to drive to Ohio and have all the parts with you.  (and, no, I am not
joking here -- I never turn away a LR owner in need!)

R. Pierce Reid

------------------------------

From: crash@merl.com
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:03:30 -0400
Subject: Synthetics in the gearbox

I have only had Mobil-1 synthetic in my Disco drivetrain for 10Kmiles
so far, but it seems to work just fine.  I have it in the engine (since 
factory+2000 miles), auto transmission, transfer case, front and rear 
diffs, and front swivel cases and have had ZERO problems or anomalies.

My previous experience is about 80Kmiles in an old Subaru 4WD.  With
dino-lube the 4WD often would not engage (it being vacuum-actuated);
once engaged it often refused to disengage; shifting on a cold day
was enough to give you a good forearm workout IF you could get it 
into first gear at all.  With Mobil-1 in the diff and transfer case, 
Everything Just Worked.  The Mobil-1 motor oil also freed the sticky 
tappets (seriously!).  The previous engine lube was Castrol GTX, 
changed every 3000 miles.  

If I had to guess, the synlubes are what God uses in his vintage 109.  

	-Bill Yerazunis

------------------------------

Date: 22 Sep 95 09:54:35 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Disco steel and lack thereof

> and hence uncorroded.  The steel tailgate on the Rangey is an abomination
> and it rusts, too.  ...< snip > ...

Amen.

But, to make up for this, the Range (86-) has an aluminum *roof* !
What do we learn from this?  ... nothing, I guess - except that you
should avoid rolling in a Range.

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:27:39 EST
From: "Wharton, Skip" <wharton@mail.scra.org>
Subject: Comic Strip Humor (Humour)

        
        Our local paper - "The Newsless Courier" carries a comic strip by the 
        name of "Sally Forth" which deals with various societal issues facing 
        the average family of the '90's.
        
        This week's theme is an ongoing discussion of the husband's proclivity 
        for buying lottery tickets - and the rationale presented to his wife for 
        doing so:
        
        Sally - You're going to buy a lottery ticket so you can daydream your 
        way through dull meetings?
        
        Husband - Sure.  I think about what I'd do with all that money.
        
        Sally - What kinds of things do you dream about?
        
        Husband - This is African Safari week.
        
        Sally - When is dump-the-wife-for-a younger-woman week?
        
        Husband - Hey, is that any way to talk to the guy who bought you a Land 
        Rover in last week's dream?
        
        Perhaps daydreaming about Land Rovers is not restricted to this group!
        Have a great weekend...
        
        Regards,
        
        Skip Wharton             wharton@scra.org
        From the Holy City of Charleston, SC, USA
        '72 Ser IIA 88"

------------------------------

From: "James" <James.Curtis@newcastle.ac.uk>
Date:          Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:44:34 GMT0BST
Subject:       Thanks.

     Just a quick note to all those merciful souls who took pitty on 
me and wrote with respect to the letters:

Oil Oil everywhere,

Open Heart Surgery,

The op. went well, and I have nearly finished reassembly,  should 
have solved some of my beastie's problems anyway...

Thanks again,

James.

   **     **     **     **     **     **     **     **
  *  *   *  *   *  *   *  *   *  *   *  *   *  *   *  *
 *    * *    * *    * *    * *    * *    * *    * *    *
*      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *
_______________________________

                         James 
_______________________________
*      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *
 *    * *    * *    * *    * *    * *    * *    * *    *
  *  *   *  *   *  *   *  *   *  *   *  *   *  *   *  *
   **     **     **     **     **     **     **     **

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:46:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Haslam <haslam@alcor.concordia.ca>
Subject: 88 RR: Radio loses code

My radio spontaneously loses its code from time to time.  (I doubt that 
it is intermittency in the supply of 12 volts or ground, because another 
radio has been working AOK for 6 months and I have no other electrical 
problems (deo gratias!).)

Clarion tell me that the solution is to replace a printed circuit board - 
but they can't obtain the board.

I would happily defeat the anti-theft system, if I knew how.  Does anyone 
have a schematic diagram, or any other clues?

...chris
88 RR

------------------------------

Subject:  
From: skidmore@mail02.mitre.org (William E. Skidmore)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:51:13 -0400

Tom Rowe writes in response:
Snip
>> He had gone to the junk yard, and found an air conditioner compressor, 
hooked 
>> it to the block by maching brackets, and ran a belt to it off the pully.  
Ran 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>> 100psi from it!
>> Any thoughts on doing this the Rovers?

>Possible I guess. But running it through lube bowls concerns me. If 
>he's adding oil to the air it will attack the rubber in his tires. 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>100psi. 
>Tom Rowe

quite right, that's what I get for rushing the mail!

The lube bowl was actually being fed into the compressor cylinder, to lube the 
piston, although how he was able to regulate it I don't know, but will 
apparently find out as my son-in-law built a similar configuration as part of 
his tool & die apprenticeship, and has already offered his assistance.

BS

------------------------------

From: BobandSueB@aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:59:31 -0400
Subject: tire pump (air conditioner)

Bill Skidmore writes:
Snip
> He had gone to the junk yard, and found an air conditioner compressor,
hooked
> it to the block by maching brackets, and ran a belt to it off the pully.
Ran
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>> 100psi from it!
>> Any thoughts on doing this the Rovers?

>Possible I guess. But running it through lube bowls concerns me. If
>he's adding oil to the air it will attack the rubber in his tires.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>readers) sells a vacum operated compressor that puts out around
>100psi.

Hi,
It's quite common for a jeep,blazer, toy-l/c etc to use an air conditioner
compressor 
to air up. At least here on the west coast.
An air conditioner pump relies on oil circulation alog with the freon,but I'
seen them used for years  without this being a problem.
One of the better ones I have seen had this done,
On the output, he put a water/oil seperator so oil can't get to the tires.
Then the seperator drain on bottom is slightly opened and a hose returns the
oil to the input. This keeps the comp. lubricated.
Also a company advertising in the four wheel magazines from so.cal.
area,modifies an upright a/c compressor with an oil return line on it so the
oil is contained for this purpose.
I currently use my ARB compressor to air up. And have a spark plug chugger
(bought from Dick Cepek years ago) as a back up.
The a/c comp. would be a bit of a booger to mount in a series vehicle, but
would really work fast. 

Bob B

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: New (?) Series III
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 11:13:00 DST

We picked up the #2 son's Series III last night and drove it home under the 
guise of Miss Golightly. Seems good, cruises comfortably at 60 mph in O/D. 
Only problem was with the speedo and here I'm looking for advice before I 
start checking everything. At the start of our trip the speedo worked fine 
and needle was steady. About 40 miles into journey the needle started to 
wave about from 40 to 70 then it decide that I was only doing 35, but I 
hadn't slowed down. Every time I went over a large bump it would recover for 
a few seconds then revert to erratic behaviour. Any suggestions?

Trevor Easton, Grimsby, Ontario,
teaston@dqc2.dofasco.ca

------------------------------

Subject: LR on TV
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 11:39:40 -0500
From: Gary Mitchelson <garym@cais.cais.com>

-- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Amoco gas is showing a new ad on TV that has a white Discovery with a
caption ID'ing it as such. The ad implies that LR specifies Amoco gas as the
gas of choice.
--
Gary Mitchelson                    
garym@racalrecord.com           
N3JPU             

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:39:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Turner engine update

All,
    I'm coming up on a couple of thousand miles on the Turner engine
    now, and I've settled back in to a normal driving routine.  SO I can
    give you the mileage stats for a full tank run under my "normal"
    driving conditions.  That's a minimum of 4 trips each weekday: home
    to daycare (7 miles), daycare to work (3 miles), and then again in
    the other direction.  There are a few stops, turns, and lights along
    the way, so a fair amount of shifting up and down, and starting from
    a stop.  Also, it's been cold enough here recently to use the choke
    a little bit when starting in the morning.  I also make a few random
    trips into Charlottesville and back throughout the week.

    In other words, not exactly the best parameters for maximum gas
    efficiency!  But probably pretty typical for many Rover owners. 
    This last tank, I got just under 17 mpg.  Hey, I'm ecstatic!  To
    recap, this is an 88 with 16" wheels and overdrive (though I don't
    get too much of a chance for overdrive on the home-daycare segment.)
    It has the Zenith carb (brand new also) and stock intake and
    exhaust parts.

    The real scary part to me is, for the first time in 5 years, I am
    now actually able to drive fast enough to get a speeding ticket!!  I
    have to start thinking about watching my speed again, heh heh heh...

    Duncan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:03:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Haslam <haslam@alcor.concordia.ca>
Subject: Re: 88 RR: Radio loses code

>      try giving one of the local car audio repair shops a call. They 
>      probably know how to go about disabling the security codes.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>      magic code that switches off the security option? Try calling them and 
>      see what they say.

Good idea.
>      By the way I have down loaded your 88 wiring diagrams and printed them 
>      out - they should prove very useful. Thanks. Have you had the 
>      opportunity to "look inside" the ECU?
>      disconnected you should have to enter the code to get the radio 

I haven't had the opportunity/need to look inside the ECU.  I hope I won't
need to for a while.  From what Lloyd Allison was saying, the ECU on a RR is
*not* hermetically sealed; it is on a Rover SD1.  Lloyd was telling me about
an ECU that went for a swim and was taken apart and dried out.

Enjoy the wiring diagrams.  Do let me know about any errors, omissions,
comments.  

I still don't know how to get at the cable side of the ECU connector: the
connector has a thin shell but no screws to remove.  This means that I
can't make in-circuit voltage measurements at the ECU.

...chris
88 RR

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:04:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: New RR Follows Tradition

On a visit to the local dealer yesterday, I looked underneath a new RR 
4.0 SE which was in the "high profile" mode so I didn't have to bend down 
as far as usual.

Guess what -- there was oil leaking everywhere, fresh oil on the ground, 
and the underside of engine and transmission nicely covered in oil.

Good to know that some things never change.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:14:43 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: New (?) Series III

 Easton Trevor <TEASTON@dqc2.dofasco.ca> writes:
>Only problem was with the speedo...   About 40 miles into journey the needle
 started to wave about from 40 to 70 then it decide that I was only doing 35,
 but I hadn't slowed down. Every time I went over a large bump it would recover
 for a few seconds then revert to erratic behaviour. Any suggestions?

 Sticky or broken speedo cable.  Replace, or disassemble and grease.

 Michael Carradine, Architect                          Ph/Fax 510-988-0900
 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA    <cs@crl.com>
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

------------------------------

From: "Mugele, Gerry" <Gerry.Mugele@wellsfargo.com>
Subject: Tired of Tires
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:27:00 PDT

Due to a little creative Michelin sidewall destruction at Hollister, my 
friend Gooey needs new shoes more desperately than before.  I am continuing 
to look into all sorts of alternatives and I have been VERY satisfied with 
my antique Michelins so of course I checked on the Michelin XCLs.  Surprise, 
surprise!  They aren't even available to mere mortals!  At least not yet. 
 Apparently they may have a very limited quantity at some of the bigger 
retailers in October as a sort of market response test.  hmmm...

I'll keep the net posted.

Gerry 72 88
*** Happiness is merely remission of pain.
**************************************************************

     |\_/|                    .-----------------------------.
     | @ @    Like... Woof!   |    Gerry Mugele             |
     |   <>              _    |    (Mugeleg@wellsfargo.com) |
     |  _/\------____ ((| |)) | : A dog may bark all night, |
     |               `--' |   |   but his legs              |
  ___|_       ___|   |___.'   |   will not grow longer.     |
/_/_____/____/_______|        `-----------------------------'
I do not speak for Wells Fargo/Wells Fargo does not speak for me.
**************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:51:43 -0700
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: US metaclub

Frank, per your request, here's the address of a (new) club that I think is 
mostly un-netted:

        Southern California Land Rover
        210 Lille Ln. #315
        Newport Beach, CA  92663
 
-Matt

------------------------------

From: William Terry <wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com>
Subject: Re: Chassis paint
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:28:52 -0400 (EDT)

I have had a couple of people tell me about POR-15 (or is it POR-50). One 
Land-Rover trained mechanic says he used in on some axel cases and then 
took a sledge hammer to it. It handled it fine. I believe that it is also 
a rust inhibitor.

As for the undercoating, mine has it all over the place including all of 
the aluminum. Not very useful there. It's sort of stiff, so I'm going to 
use a paint scraper to scrape it off. Just beware of gouging the 
aluminum. It would take an awful large amount of very potent stuff to 
disolve the undercoating for cleaning. Gasoline will do it. I think I'll 
stick with the paint scraper. A paint heater gun and scraper may be even 
better. Anyone use a paint heater gun for this?

______________W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______________
  How do we acquire wisdom along with all these shiny things? (David Brin)

  wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com
  http://glenfiddich.minerva.bah.com:8062/CyberJungle.html
  MINERVA Development Team, Booz, Allen & Hamilton

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:28:41 -0700
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: British license plates

I noticed, but didn't follow, the thread about obtaining British license 
plates.  In case this source wasn't mentioned, there's an ad in the 
September Hemmings for a U.S. company that makes all kinds of plates to 
order, Eurosign Metalwerke, 305-979-1448.

-Matt

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:30:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Haslam <haslam@alcor.concordia.ca>
Subject: RR Swivel pin preloading

>Can anyone tell me the correct preload for RR swivel pin housings?

I have the Workshop Manual for 87 to 91.  Which year?

...chris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:01:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Francis J. Twarog" <ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: national assoc.

Just to clear up a few things that seem to have gotten 
misinterpreted....  My intent behind a national association would be 
merely to get two major things done - 1. Have a sort of "floating" annual 
event in which clubs that are affiliated would be responsible for the 
annual event that took place in their geographic region that year.  For 
instance, Myles Murphy's annual Owl's Head event is superb for us folks 
in New England (this year about 120 Land Rovers attended) - and will 
certainly be a highlight every summer.  But if one year there was also an 
event in, say, Ohio or Pennsylvania or New York, all of the mid-Atlantic, 
New England and central state clubs and companies could attend for a very 
large and diverse show.  The next year could be in the North Western 
region, etc. etc.  I know that as much as I wanted to get out to Colorado 
for the national rally this year (and the Mid-Atlantic one as well) - and 
many others that I know - there was no way between work and, well, work!  
I also don't think that it would be a bad thing to have a club or two 
responsible for one years event and then "pass the torch" so-to-speak 
the next.  
	2. By having a national association that clubs were associated 
with might allow for a lot of positive growth and idea-sharing.  
Inter-club events could prosper, memberships could increase etc. etc.  It 
would not be the sort of identity that tried to structure the way that 
clubs are run or anything, but a source of information for the clubs - 
perhaps a representative from each club could be responsible for passing 
on their publication or event info.  An association wouldn't neccessarily 
need to have a publication of their own or individual membership dues - 
those 
are facets of LROA.  Instead, it would be a relatively informal type of 
identity that was an informational source for the clubs.  I'm repeating 
now, so I guess I've made my point.

Frank Twarog
Burlington, VT  USA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:05:36 -0700
From: lchung@sdcoe.k12.ca.us (Tarek El Rashidy+Luz Chung)
Subject: New Discovery

We are seriously considering buying a LR Discovery. However before we do, I
would like to share some of the concerns we have regarding this car:

1) I have read 2 reviews in US 4x4 magazines that clearly state that one of
the major disadvantage of the Discovery, aside from very poor acceleartion,
is that it has very poor mpg (the worst of all the vehicules in its class)
and to top it off, that it requires premium fuel. Yet, when asked, the
salesperson told us that was not true, that it would certainly run better on
super but that there was nothing in the owner manual that specified premium
fuel. Was he telling the truth?

2) I have some concerns about getting the car serviced (we live in San
Diego). There is only one dealer in town (monopoly?). Is the servicing
expensive? Can these car be serviced anywhere else? Are the parts easy to
obtain? Are they expensive?

3) Should we get a stick shift or an automatic? He was saying that it is
easier to go off-road with an automatic (!?)

4) Finally he told us that black Discos only come loaded (sunroof etc) so
that there is no way to get a base model, stick shift in black. I have a
hard time to believe that, considering that black is an option that costs an
extra $300. Any truth to that?

5) We got the impression that it would be impossible to negociate the price
(except on the 95 models, which were litterally flying out of the showroom).
Any comments on that?

6) What's this thing about leaking oil?

tarek.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: New (?) Series III 
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:52:15 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

 Easton Trevor <TEASTON@dqc2.dofasco.ca> writes:
> >Only problem was with the speedo...   About 40 miles into journey the needle
>  started to wave about from 40 to 70 then it decide that I was only doing 35,
>  but I hadn't slowed down. Every time I went over a large bump it would recov
>  for a few seconds then revert to erratic behaviour. Any suggestions?

	Before you assume that it's a broken speedo or sticky cable, drop
the front half of the rear propshaft and retorque the castleated nut that you
find on the end of the tranny there.  If that nut is loose, the gear that 
drives the speedo can skip and give the results that you mention.

Ben

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake
 
"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entries
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:33:56 -0700
Subject: Re: New Discovery

On Sep 22,  1:05pm, Tarek El Rashidy+Luz Chung wrote:
> Subject: New Discovery
> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
> and to top it off, that it requires premium fuel. Yet, when asked, the
> salesperson told us that was not true, that it would certainly run better
on
> super but that there was nothing in the owner manual that specified premium
> fuel. Was he telling the truth?

False for at least the 95. The manual indicates it is to be fed premium
unleaded with at least a 91 octane. However, it seems to work perfectly fine
on midgrade or super with a 89 rating. I actually seem to get better mileage
with 89 than premium. I would be interested to find out what is wrong with
running midgrade however. I have been told that as long as it is not pinging
there is no problem or damage. Comments???

> 2) I have some concerns about getting the car serviced (we live in San
> Diego). There is only one dealer in town (monopoly?). Is the servicing
> expensive? Can these car be serviced anywhere else? Are the parts easy to
> obtain? Are they expensive?

Ask up front what the various servicing costs will be. This is something that
we didn't do. Our dealer (also a Cad dealer) gives a free loaner for day long
work, and/or will provide limo service. The 7500 mile checkup is $45 (see
below for what gets done). I consider this on the high side for basically an
oil change. We recently ran into a deer (don't ask or it will raise another
ruckus on the group) and had to decide where to have some repair work done.
We ended up having it done at a USAA-trusted repair shop, so they felt
comfortable doing the work. BTW, the front extending bar was badly creased
but the rest of the whole guard was so little tweaked that I couldn't see
anything wrong and assumed that he would just replace the front bar: nope, he
replace the whole bambi-bar ($645) which I now have in the garage ( I am
building my spare parts department one thing at a time :-)

> 3) Should we get a stick shift or an automatic? He was saying that it is
> easier to go off-road with an automatic (!?)
> expensive? Can these car be serviced anywhere else? Are the parts easy to

Religious questions are verboten here :>) We like the automatic for around
town and going in tough flat and uphill grades, however in downhill where you
are trying to stay off of the brakes the automatic doesn't do a great job of
engine braking: the manual would seem to do better in that case.

> 4) Finally he told us that black Discos only come loaded (sunroof etc) so
> that there is no way to get a base model, stick shift in black. I have a
> hard time to believe that, considering that black is an option that costs
> obtain? Are they expensive?
an
> extra $300. Any truth to that?

Unknown, but believable. If you are paying a premium for the black paint they
probably assume that you want everything (and don't plan to take it offroad:
white-like pinstripes on bold black; probably stands out really good.

> 5) We got the impression that it would be impossible to negociate the price
> (except on the 95 models, which were litterally flying out of the
> hard time to believe that, considering that black is an option that costs
showroom).
> Any comments on that?

It depends. We negotiated about $4000 off the total out the door price on a
fully loaded automatic (leather, jumpseats, a/c, sunroofs, bambi-bar, running
boards, towpackage). You just have to be willing to waste their time to the
point where if they don't sell to you they have made no money for the day. We
spent about 6 hours the time we finally went in to buy (+another 5 hours
during previous trips); I'd say that was worth about $700 per hour we paid
ourselves. There is generally alot of dealer talk about how quickly their
cars are moving. Go in several times over about 3 weeks and see for yourself.
(They do seem to move at times).

> 6) What's this thing about leaking oil?
> (except on the 95 models, which were litterally flying out of the

What about it??? Nobody told you to park it on the new white carpet in the
living room ;:) Seriously, we've had our Disco for about 5 months and it has
a few drips from various locations. It seems to mean that it isn't
dehydrated. But it isn't *leaking* oil. Besides, I would recommend getting
the extended 3rd party warranty. Our dealer indicated when I was planning to
take our vehicle in for the 7500 mile service ($45 for oil/filter change,
fluid topoffs and lube) that if there were any leaks they would replace the
faulty part instead of tightening the bolts. Not bad, but it shouldn't leak!!

> tarek.
>-- End of excerpt from Tarek El Rashidy+Luz Chung
> hard time to believe that, considering that black is an option that costs
> obtain? Are they expensive?

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 14:57:42 PDT
From: Bennett Leeds <bennett@mv.us.adobe.com>
Subject: Re: New Discovery

Tarek El Rashidy writes
> We are seriously considering buying a LR Discovery. However before 

> we do, I would like to share some of the concerns we have regarding 

> this car:

Well, I've just put a deposit down on a '96, so I ain't no expert.  
Sounds like I'm about 2-3 weeks ahead of you in the process. Here's  
my impressions and beliefs:

> 1) I have read 2 reviews in US 4x4 magazines that clearly state 

> that one of the major disadvantage of the Discovery, aside from 

> very poor acceleartion, is that it has very poor mpg (the worst of 

> all the vehicules in its class) and to top it off, that it requires 

> premium fuel. Yet, when asked, the salesperson told us that was not 

> true, that it would certainly run better on super but that there 

> was nothing in the owner manual that specified premium fuel. Was he 

> telling the truth?

No, he was lying through his teeth. I've found LR salesmen to a) be  
slime, b) not know the car very well, and c) not know anything real  
LandRovers.

To call him on it, ask him for a brochure (either '95 or '96), then  
show him the last couple of pages where it specifies premium fuel.

> 2) I have some concerns about getting the car serviced (we live in 

> San Diego). There is only one dealer in town (monopoly?). Is the 

> servicing expensive? Can these car be serviced anywhere else? Are 

> the parts easy to obtain? Are they expensive?

I understand that non-routine servicing of LRs is expensive, like  
most other 4 WD vehicles. While under warranty you'll be using the  
dealer and the cost won't matter. I imagine there are independent  
service places for LR's in San Diego, being so close to Car Mecca,  
and if the Discoveries remain popular more independent shops will  
open. Parts are readily available, thanks to Catepillar (the farm  
vehicle company), Rovers North, and Fed X.

> 3) Should we get a stick shift or an automatic? He was saying that 

> it is easier to go off-road with an automatic (!?)

I have no off-road experience, but since even on pavement no  
automatic is a good as a good driver and stick I can't see how it  
would be better off-road. After all, the transmission can't see  
what's happening 50 feet ahead like a good driver can. Nevertheless,  
people are lazy and drive in rush hour traffic. 90% of the '96  
Discoveries being imported in the US are equipped with an automatic,  
so that's what they try to push (more profit in them, too).

I ordered a stick and personally would not consider an automatic.  
Whatever you decide, don't let the salesmen (or me) tell you which is  
best - drive both and decide on your own.

> 4) Finally he told us that black Discos only come loaded (sunroof 

> etc) so that there is no way to get a base model, stick shift in 

> black. I have a hard time to believe that, considering that black 

> is an option that costs an extra $300. Any truth to that?

No. 5% of the Discoveries are base model manuals. All model  
configurations are available in all colors according to a factory to  
dealer model availability sheet that I have. However, he may not be  
getting any black base model manuals in the shipments he knows about.  
BTW, are you sure you want a clear coated paint job on a off-road  
vehicle? I also think that next summer when the temp in San Diego  
breaks 110 that sitting in a black Discovery without the rear A/C  
you'll be sorry.

> 5) We got the impression that it would be impossible to negociate 

> the price (except on the 95 models, which were litterally flying 

> out of the showroom). Any comments on that?

Depends on the dealer, his competition, and his market. Being the  
only dealer for miles, and considering that the '96s are just out,  
that could be true. I convinced the Car Club negotiating service to  
try to "break" Land Rover, and they did - I ordered a '96 for  
reasonably less than sticker considering the '96s are just out. If I  
wanted a '95, Car Club found one for me at $2700 off of sticker  
(these are vehicles with no dealer added options).

Before you get any dealer added options get catalogs from Rovers  
North and British Atlantic to compare prices. One saleslime told me  
the CD player was $1000 but he'd only charge me $700 plus  
installation. I walked around the corner to the parts department and  
found out that the list price is $692 plus 1/2 hour installation time  
if I wanted that (and he said he'd be surprised if I did). Rovers  
North sells the exact same unit for under $600, for instance.

> 6) What's this thing about leaking oil?

It's a British car thing. From what I've seen of the demonstrator  
units, get used to it.

- Bennett Leeds
bennett@mv.us.adobe.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:56:37 -0800
From: holland@catapent.com (Shannon Holland)
Subject: Defender Shop Manuals

I just stopped by my local land rover dealer and enquired into a shop
manual for a 94 Defender 90. I was quoted a price of $240 for binder,
manaual and latest updates.

This seems to a little beyond (by maybe $160) what I was expecting/wanting
to pay. He did offer me 15% off, but I was wondering what other options (if
any) there are out there. Alternaltely, what have other people paid for
them (I went to San Jose British Motors).

Shannon

------------------------------

From: Robert Watson (CNA) <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 15:31:02 TZ
Subject: Re: New Discovery

my $.02...
----------
| > 4) Finally he told us that black Discos only come loaded (sunroof etc) so
| > that there is no way to get a base model, stick shift in black. I have a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
| an
| > extra $300. Any truth to that?
My Black 95 Disco came only with Auto, Jump seats & Sunroofs (no 
leather, no CD, etc). The brush marks definitely _DO_ stand out on the 
black (so be prepared to buff, if you go off road) and it get's toasty 
when sitting in a parking lot. But, even still, I like how it looks, 
when it's clean, anyway. :-) I think the option matrix has been revised 
for 96 to where you can get a manual in any color (but I can't recall for sure)

| > 5) We got the impression that it would be impossible to negociate the price
| > (except on the 95 models, which were litterally flying out of the
| > hard time to believe that, considering that black is an option that costs
| showroom).
| > Any comments on that?
That's what they'd like you to think, of course, but most will budge to 
some degree if pushed. YMMV, of course.

-- Bob W.
'95 Disco

------------------------------

From: Cw117h@aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:05:02 -0400
Subject: Greetings list!

I'm afraid this is but a brief visit back to the old list, as I have found
myself moldering in a pile of academic rubble larger than some L-R breakers
yards I've seen, and the future does not look much brighter. When things
ease, I shall sign back on.

In the meantime, I can report that my IIa 109 has arrived (more or less in
one piece) in Houston. After a thorough going over and hassle with customs,
the USDA, and the CET, I now have him in my posession.. awaiting paper for
Texas plates.  Anyone who would like details (or to be talked out of trying
to import your own), drop me a line. AOL is my temporary address while the
medical school's server is down for upgrades. I will check mail here.

I'm very pleased to see diesel at $1.03/gallon. That's about what I paid per
litre in the UK.  Egad. 

I'm also pleased to see that my small but excellent local BMW specialist
(fixed major disasters on the 2002 for the six years before I moved overseas)
is now branching out into Rovers. If anyone in the Houston area is looking
for an independant who handles Land Rovers, I cannot recommend him highly
enough (unfortunately he thinks I can't pay him highly enough either...)

Unfortunately, I'm a bit shocked by the insurance rates (USAA) I've been
quoted, and I'd love to hear from anyone who is insuring an old 109 at a rate
they like in a reasonably built-up (high risk) area.  Harris county is bad,
but $600/year for liabiliy only seems a bit high... in fact it's more than
the 2002 annually (115 bhp on two-door sports car vs. 62 bhp on big-fat
truck... which would be higher risk? you decide.)

Thats the news in brief, hope all are well, and I will susbscribe again when
I next come up for a breath.

Cheers,
Charlie

C. R. Wright
Baylor College of Medicine
Houston, Tx

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 18:29:36 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Defender Shop Manuals

 Shannon Holland <holland@catapent.com> writes:

>I just stopped by my local land rover dealer and enquired into a shop
 manual for a 94 Defender 90. I was quoted a price of $240 for binder,
 manaual and latest updates.
 This seems to a little beyond (by maybe $160) what I was expecting/wanting
 to pay. He did offer me 15% off, but I was wondering what other options (if
 any) there are out there. Alternaltely, what have other people paid for them.

 Shannon,

 Call British Pacific in Burbank and get a copy of Land Rover Owner (LRO)
 magazine ($6 plus post), or get Land Rover World (LRW), sometimes found at
 Barnes & Noble Bookstores.  Anyway, in these magazines are adds for LR
 publications and most things you'd ever want for your Defender (as well as
 Disco's, Series vehicles, etc.).  For instance, LRO Books (01379-890111,
 Fax 01379-898244)* sells the LR Workshop Manual for the Defender 90/110,
 1983-1993 at #39.95 (plus #3.50 postage per book surface, or #6.50 per book
 airmail to the US), the Disco 1995 -excluding electrics- is #50.99, and the
 Disco electrics is also #50.99.  They also have parts catalogs, Defender 90,
 1984 on, and Disco 1989 on, at #44.99 each.  Looking at todays GNN/Koblas
 Currency Converter Web page at http://bin.gnn.com/cgi-bin/gnn/currency
 the dollar is worth about #0.646 plus exchange fees, making your intutive
 estimate of $80 for a Workshop Manual, delivered to your door, just about
 right :)  As to getting a '94 D-90 Manual, it may be available by now, if
 not, there are probably very little differences with the '93 model (maybe
 your dealer is trying to sell you the '93 Manual anyway, with 'updates').

 *to call the UK from the US, dial 011-44 and the number above without the
 leading 0 (I think :).

 Michael Carradine, Architect                          Ph/Fax 510-988-0900
 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA    <cs@crl.com>
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

------------------------------

From: ecoethic@rcinet.com
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:14:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Chassis Paint & Ohio Club

Steve Reddock asked about durable chassis paint. I would recommend Bill 
Hirsch's "Miracle Paint" (201-642-2404). It comes in three colors - black, silver, 
and clear. Its brushable,  and sprayable with appropriate thinner. Two coats 
over rusted metal will effectively seal it to moisture. I've used it on rusty 
snowplows, frames, and gas tanks with good results. It drys very hard, and if 
you get it on your skin, clean it off right away with thinner. If it drys on you, it 
will be there until it wears off in about a week or so. Cost is about $25 a quart, 
and put a piece of wax paper over the top before you put the lid back on, or you 
won't get it off without destroying the can (its a great glue too, can be mixed 
with fiberglass for repairs).

I would like to know more about an Ohio club too! I'll wager that the organizer is 
a person in Cincinnati that owns several Rovers including a Dormobile. He 
stopped at my house to look at my Rovers a few weeks ago. We talked so much 
about Rovers, I forgot his name! There are at least a dozen known Series Rovers 
in Ohio and many more Discoveries and Range Rovers, but we really don't have 
much in the way of interesting terrain, unless you count clay-based mud.

Walt Pokines

Tipp City, Ohio

Protected by Avon's

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:23:34 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rover Rally

OK gang, the Rally is just a week away and everything in on-line.  Picked up 
the T-shirts today: a stunning five-color design.  We're even getting rain 
to fill up the mud pit.

For those who came in late: this will likely be the largest gathering of 
Land-Rover on the continent this year (if this year's registrations are 
compared with last year's and the total count - 86).  Rovers North, DAP and 
ABP will all be there.  Lots of neat prizes and giveaways, including a pair 
of 16" Dunlop Radial Rover tires.  Tech sessions, the teeter-totter, 
blindfold obstacle course, maybe even a "slow race".  Also, the Aluminium 
Man Triathlon (trials course plus), catered BBQ, bluegrass music, and a 
scenic rail excursion.  There is plenty of room for camping on site; the 
nearby motels, lodges and B&B's are probably booked.

One last time:  The site is a mile west of US RT 15 on county road 671.  The 
turn-off is about six miles south of the RT 15 bridge over the James River 
in Buckingham County, Virginia which is the geographic center of the state.

A lot of work has gone into this rally...so get out and enjoy it!  But...we 
need to know just how many mouths we need to feed for the BBQ and the 
catered brunch (on the train) the next day.  Sooo...if you want to attend, I 
need your name, address and number of people for the BBQ and the rail 
excursion the next day.  There is a $15 registration fee (to pay for the 
tents, porta potties, etc.)up front while the meals and rail excursion can 
be purchased on site at cost.  But we need to know if you are coming ASAP, 
like as in *yesterday*. (I've got to get a final count to the caterer 
Tuesday.)  Address replies to the address in the sig.block.

The site is quite rural with the entire sweep of the Blue Ridge visible from 
the farm.  Don't miss the Land Rover event of the year!
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 30 lines 1424 [forwarded 124 whitespace 336]
 Output: lines 1221 [content 704  forwarded 103 (cut  21) whitespace 321]

 ]

Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 16:24:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John C. White III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: New Discovery

Tarek & Luz,

I own a '95 Discovery 5 speed (manual) with 10,000 miles on it.  Here are 
my experiences and opinions:

1.  I get about 14.2 to 14.5 mpg in mixed city and freeway driving with 
the mix being about 80% city and 20% freeway.  In pure freeway driving, 
like on road trips, I get 17 mpg.  My owner's manual says to use unleaded 
92 octane fuel and, although it doesn't say explicitly "premium" in the 
manual, that octane rating is premium at most gas stations.  I have 
talked with another Discovery owner about what kind of fuel he puts in 
his, and was told he uses regular (87 octane).  He says he has no problem 
with performance.  I have tried the lower octane rating and noticed 
reduced performance when climbing hills or accelerating on a slope.

2.  Land Rover dealerships are not as common in the U.S. as other 4WD 
vendors.  While your vehicle is on warranty you're pretty much stuck with 
going to the dealer, but, because it's on warranty the parts will be 
"free."  Once it's off warranty, you can take to any garage you want.  
I'm not familiar with the Rover scene in San Diego, someone on the Net 
may know.  Another option is to make like the Series owners and do the 
work yourself.

3.  As I said, I drive a manual.  In my opinion manuals are more in 
keeping with the spirit of Land Rovers, and I find it more fun to drive.  
I've had mine off-road and had no problems where I would say I'd have had 
an easier time of it had I had an automatic.  In fact, I was delighted to 
find that my Discovery performed as advertised.

4.  There were only 8 options packages available when I bought mine back 
in June.  Six of these were for automatics.  Manuals came only in 
stripped down version or fully loaded (sunroofs, rear air conditioning, 
leather, rear jump seats...).  I have the sales brochure right here and 
it says, "Base vehicle is available in the following colors only: 
Coniston Green, Portofino Red and Alpine White."

5.  I've heard that Discoveries are wildly popular and have been seeing 
more and more of them on the road.  As market forces tend to work, if 
it's popular and/or hard to come by, it won't be discounted in price much.

6.  British cars are notorious for leaking fluids, and Land Rovers are no 
exception.  So far mine hasn't succumbed to any hemorrhaging, but I 
expect it will eventually.  I've never seen an aging car, regardless of 
nationality that didn't at some point.  When that happens, I'll deal with it.

Hope this helps you make your decision.

Cheers!
]ohn
'95 Discovery, 5-speed (HMS Defiant)
San Francisco, California

On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Tarek El Rashidy+Luz Chung wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> We are seriously considering buying a LR Discovery. However before we do, I
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 38 lines)]
> 6) What's this thing about leaking oil?
> tarek.

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Subject: 'shakin speedo' 
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 19:58:26 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>

Commonly a loose speedometer pick-up at the rear end of the transmission,
but, as I understand it a real pain to repair once the O/D has been 
installed.

    Cheers,
	--bill	caloccia@Team.Net	http://www.senie.com/billc/

      1  3     dl OD  L           "Land Rover's first, because
      |--|--+  o  |   |            Land Rovers last."
      2  4  R  ul N   H           '72 Range Rover

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Date: 23 Sep 95 20:20:27 EDT
From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com>
Subject: Still happily locked up.

I've had the locker in for about a month now and all is well. The off-road
performance of the vehicle has improved remarkably and the unit is very well
mannered on the street. In fact except for the very slight clicking around slow
tight corners as the outside rear wheel unlocks you would never know its there
on the street. Off-road is another story as you think you're driving a
half-track. Scree covered 25 degree slopes are taken at a walk without wheel
spin. The way the vehicle handles uneven, lose terrain can only be desribed as
elegant. The Disco's long-travel suspension coupled with positive power to three
wheels make it civilized over very uncivilized trails.
If you're interested contact Lock-Right at 1-800-LOCKERS and speak to Bill Cole.
Tell them you heard about it on the Rover-net. No I don't work for Lock-Right,
but at first they didn't believe we actually went off-road in our Rovers so tell
him.

					Mark Ritter
					94 Disco w/
					Steel wheels
					Mud tires &
					Rear locker.

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From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: New Discovery
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 17:34:31 PDT

> > 3) Should we get a stick shift or an automatic? He was saying that 
> > it is easier to go off-road with an automatic (!?)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)]
> I ordered a stick and personally would not consider an automatic.  
> Whatever you decide, don't let the salesmen (or me) tell you which is  
> best - drive both and decide on your own.

I have a Range Rover with the same running gear as a disco (almost),
and a Defender 90 with a standard transmission. And I have to admit
that the automatic is an easier Rover to drive offroad.
LandRover did a great job with the automatic transmission giving it
the proper gearing, and the ability to lock the transmision in low low.
The engine breaking is fantastic for an auto, and as good as most
4 wheel dives with a standard transmission.
I still prefer a standard transmission, but not for any technical offroad
reasons. It seems I spill my coffee with an auto....

Russ Burns
Hay, while you at it make sure you join LROA

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From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Power steering flush
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 17:48:26 PDT

After being terribly disappointed in the quality of 
education in first grade (I waded through kindergarten to 
first grade, only to be taught something I already new.
I was expecting electron flow theory, and Hindenburg uncertainty principle and other exciting lessons).
I decided that if I had to do stupid things in life, at least 
they were going to be my own stupid things. It is with
this philosophy I set out on the journey of life.....
Being the Shade tree mechanic I am. ( really I did do most
of my work under a tree until about a year ago. In fact I still do a lot of work under that tree, as that is where most of my tools lie) 
I decided to flush the ATF out of my power steering system. After reading some articles somewhere, and 
studding the shop manual I reached the conclusion that all 
one needed to do was remove the bleed screw. 

So I did. The fluid poured out , like I planed, into the 
bucket and all was fine.  I then started thinking that there

was probably a lot of ATF still in the pump. So I set on a 
plan of action. I filled reservoir. I dumped a extra quart 
upside down for extra fluid. I then quickly started the 
truck to help pump put the fluid. This worked far better 
than my expectations. If fact a 3/8 inch stream of ATF 
shot up at a rate of at least 2 gallons a minute, deflected 
off a hose and angled into the fan, and sprayed all over 
the belts, engine, engine bay, hood, front grill, front 
bumper, windscreen, and various portions of the frame.

Great I thought as I started wiping up the various puddles 
of ATF. This not only rustproofs a lot of steel, It also will 
lube those dummy pullies that squeak.
After reinstalling the bleed screw, and normally bleeding 
the system I am pleased to report that the operation was 
a success.
One final observation. I have noted that thinning of the 
hair improves ones ability to detect oil dripping on ones 
head. It use to take almost a gallon of oil before I noticed.

Now I have it down to less than a quart. (my greatest fear 
is that I may run into an oil that promotes hair growth, 
and I will have to spend the rest of my life on paid ad TV
promoting hair tonic)
Upon detection I promptly turn my head to fill up my ear 
canal, as oil is good for ear aches.
Also the above techniques are good for keeping oil off the 
garage floor.

Russ Burns 
91 Range Rover (oil proofed, and smokes great)
94 D-90

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From: BwanaE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:11:23 -0400
Subject: Excellent diagnosing ...

William Leacock,

Last month I asked your opinion regards my 109" 6-cyl petrol burning a fair
amount of oil during overrun conditions. Just wanted to let you know that
your diagnosis of worn inlet valve guide seals was spot on. Had my mechanic
pull the head, and the aforementioned seals although new, were hard,brittle
and useless. As you suggested this is probably due to many NADA 6-cyl parts
being "new" (unused) but old stock.

After replacement with soft, squishy, new o-rings she hasn't used a drop of
oil in 1500 miles.

Thanks again,  Eric.

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