[ First Message Last | Table of Contents | <- Digest -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
msg | Sender | lines | Subject |
1 | Brian Neill Tiedemann [s | 87 | A/C compressors |
2 | "R. Pierce Reid" [70004. | 10 | Your brakes |
3 | crash@merl.com | 23 | Synthetics in the gearbox |
4 | "Stefan R. Jacob" [10004 | 16 | Re: Disco steel and lack thereof |
5 | "Wharton, Skip" [wharton | 36 | Comic Strip Humor (Humour) |
6 | "James" [James.Curtis@ne | 32 | Thanks. |
7 | Chris Haslam [haslam@alc | 18 | 88 RR: Radio loses code |
8 | skidmore@mail02.mitre.or | 29 | [not specified] |
9 | BobandSueB@aol.com | 41 | tire pump (air conditioner) |
10 | Easton Trevor [TEASTON@D | 17 | New (?) Series III |
11 | Gary Mitchelson [garym@c | 13 | [not specified] |
12 | Duncan Brown [DB@CHO004. | 30 | Turner engine update |
13 | Chris Haslam [haslam@alc | 31 | Re: 88 RR: Radio loses code |
14 | John Brabyn [brabyn@skiv | 18 | New RR Follows Tradition |
15 | cs@crl.com (Michael Carr | 17 | Re: New (?) Series III |
16 | "Mugele, Gerry" [Gerry.M | 29 | Tired of Tires |
17 | matts@cacilj.caciasl.com | 13 | US metaclub |
18 | William Terry [wterry@sa | 25 | Re: Chassis paint |
19 | matts@cacilj.caciasl.com | 11 | British license plates |
20 | Chris Haslam [haslam@alc | 10 | RR Swivel pin preloading |
21 | "Francis J. Twarog" [ftw | 37 | national assoc. |
22 | lchung@sdcoe.k12.ca.us ( | 36 | New Discovery |
23 | Benjamin Allan Smith [be | 25 | [not specified] |
24 | kirkwood@strider.fm.inte | 96 | Re: New Discovery |
25 | Bennett Leeds [bennett@m | 117 | Re: New Discovery |
26 | holland@catapent.com (Sh | 15 | Defender Shop Manuals |
27 | Robert Watson (CNA) [a-r | 30 | Re: New Discovery |
28 | Cw117h@aol.com | 43 | Greetings list! |
29 | cs@crl.com (Michael Carr | 40 | Re: Defender Shop Manuals |
30 | ecoethic@rcinet.com | 29 | Re: Chassis Paint & Ohio Club |
31 | rover@pinn.net (Alexande | 42 | Mid-Atlantic Rover Rally |
From: Brian Neill Tiedemann <s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: A/C compressors Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:00:22 +1000 (EST) Hi all, The thread on compressors prompts me to write... I have been intending to modify my compressor fitments: I currently carry a "toy" electric compressor on trips. RR has dealer fitted A/C... here in oz in 77 the fitment used a "york" type compressor. I have spoken to many A/C specialist shops and from much BS, deduced that these "york" units are the thing to use if wanting to compress AIR, but fairly inefficient for refrigerants (hence most newer systems use some form of vane rotary compressor or "wobble plate" piston compressor. I have collected a new-second-hand rotary compressor which I intended to use to run my A/C, and had intended to convert the york for air supply (as my hombrew locker is air operated and I wish to also run air tools in the car every so often as well as tyre pumping after airing down). This may or may not happen now, as I am near the point of making a dedicated air compressor from scratch and driving it off a PTO or hydraulics. Anyhow, here's some thoughts: I intended to use a regular electric compressor cutout switch and a resivoir of sorts to allow a supply of air sufficient for short bursts of thirsty air tools. Setup is easy: a switch in the cabin supplies the whole circuit and turns the compressor clutch ON, but if this is routed through the normally closed contacts of the cutout switch (in series), and the switch is connected to the air reservoir's pressure, then the compressor will pump up the resivoir to the desired pressure, then disengage the clutch as the contacts open. Reservoirs: have seen some creative ideas here- Pressurised tubular bullbar (all sections connected together); Pressurised chasis crossmember of early RR (two holes to be blocked up); Pressurised tubular rollcage; "Air Brake" reservoir a-la truck- many possibilities for creative thought. Only restrictions here are to ensure wall thickness and strength of whatever you wish to use are _safely_ able to cope with max pressure available. "Nice" electric air control valves are available for industrial Pneumatics jobs. Often found at swap meets with mains coils-easy to buy and change the coils. The whole items can be expensive if bought new. Another option is those used in ARB air-locker kits, they (ARB) also have neat "Front/Rear Locker" labelled illuminated switches for their kits. I have recently seen (in a 4X4 accessory joint) a kit which had a wobble plate type piston compressor (A/C type) with air fittings and an inlet filter added, being sold for ~350 dollars OZ (NOT equal to 350 bannnannnas)! Same shop also had a neat 2 stage piston compressor with A/C style electric clutch and V-belt drive fitted (made in Sydney, OZ I think). This appeared to be well made and should be a real performer, but for $650 it would _want_ to be!! On oilers, etc: My impression is that you would want oil/water TRAPS, not oilers in the delivery line (unless operating hi speed turbine type tools-which is unlikely). This is especially true since the sump oil of most A/C systems is not permanently _in_ the compressor, it is pumped around to an extent with the refrigerant. A smart way around this problem might be some form of trap which also functions as a displacement lubricator, forcing clean oil into the compressor intake port as oil/water are removed from the pressure outlet air. This could keep the compressor happy. (more spots for oil to leak from .... AAAHHHHRGGGGH!) I still need a PTO for the early RR four speed (LT 95 I think - is it?). Have only found solid gold new ones available here (custom made, of compressed MONEY). ;) If I cannot find one soon, I will make up a belt driven hydraulic PTO from some kind of gear pump with an A/C clutch attatched I think.... hmmm. This will work OK I think, but probably be considerably slower for winching than the direct drive option of a "post gearbox" PTO. The idea of four speed ranges in one direction, and a simple reverse with no valves/pipes/expensive hoses/OIL seems attractive. Did I say no oil, oops, only the traditional Rover "External Splash Lubrication System", I meant no EXTRA oil/oil tanks. rambling as usual, I'll keep you posted about air system and PTO results... cheeers, BT <--initials BT <-- "Break Transmission" ;} ------------------------------[ <- Message 2 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: 22 Sep 95 08:49:32 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Your brakes Geez, Tim... I'll fix them for you for a couple of 6-packs and a pizza. You just have to drive to Ohio and have all the parts with you. (and, no, I am not joking here -- I never turn away a LR owner in need!) R. Pierce Reid ------------------------------[ <- Message 3 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
From: crash@merl.com Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:03:30 -0400 Subject: Synthetics in the gearbox I have only had Mobil-1 synthetic in my Disco drivetrain for 10Kmiles so far, but it seems to work just fine. I have it in the engine (since factory+2000 miles), auto transmission, transfer case, front and rear diffs, and front swivel cases and have had ZERO problems or anomalies. My previous experience is about 80Kmiles in an old Subaru 4WD. With dino-lube the 4WD often would not engage (it being vacuum-actuated); once engaged it often refused to disengage; shifting on a cold day was enough to give you a good forearm workout IF you could get it into first gear at all. With Mobil-1 in the diff and transfer case, Everything Just Worked. The Mobil-1 motor oil also freed the sticky tappets (seriously!). The previous engine lube was Castrol GTX, changed every 3000 miles. If I had to guess, the synlubes are what God uses in his vintage 109. -Bill Yerazunis ------------------------------[ <- Message 4 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: 22 Sep 95 09:54:35 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Disco steel and lack thereof > and hence uncorroded. The steel tailgate on the Rangey is an abomination > and it rusts, too. ...< snip > ... Amen. But, to make up for this, the Range (86-) has an aluminum *roof* ! What do we learn from this? ... nothing, I guess - except that you should avoid rolling in a Range. Stefan <Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com> ------------------------------[ <- Message 5 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:27:39 EST From: "Wharton, Skip" <wharton@mail.scra.org> Subject: Comic Strip Humor (Humour) Our local paper - "The Newsless Courier" carries a comic strip by the name of "Sally Forth" which deals with various societal issues facing the average family of the '90's. This week's theme is an ongoing discussion of the husband's proclivity for buying lottery tickets - and the rationale presented to his wife for doing so: Sally - You're going to buy a lottery ticket so you can daydream your way through dull meetings? Husband - Sure. I think about what I'd do with all that money. Sally - What kinds of things do you dream about? Husband - This is African Safari week. Sally - When is dump-the-wife-for-a younger-woman week? Husband - Hey, is that any way to talk to the guy who bought you a Land Rover in last week's dream? Perhaps daydreaming about Land Rovers is not restricted to this group! Have a great weekend... Regards, Skip Wharton wharton@scra.org From the Holy City of Charleston, SC, USA '72 Ser IIA 88" ------------------------------[ <- Message 6 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
From: "James" <James.Curtis@newcastle.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:44:34 GMT0BST Subject: Thanks. Just a quick note to all those merciful souls who took pitty on me and wrote with respect to the letters: Oil Oil everywhere, Open Heart Surgery, The op. went well, and I have nearly finished reassembly, should have solved some of my beastie's problems anyway... Thanks again, James. ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * _______________________________ James _______________________________ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ------------------------------[ <- Message 7 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:46:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Haslam <haslam@alcor.concordia.ca> Subject: 88 RR: Radio loses code My radio spontaneously loses its code from time to time. (I doubt that it is intermittency in the supply of 12 volts or ground, because another radio has been working AOK for 6 months and I have no other electrical problems (deo gratias!).) Clarion tell me that the solution is to replace a printed circuit board - but they can't obtain the board. I would happily defeat the anti-theft system, if I knew how. Does anyone have a schematic diagram, or any other clues? ...chris 88 RR ------------------------------[ <- Message 8 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Subject: From: skidmore@mail02.mitre.org (William E. Skidmore) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:51:13 -0400 Tom Rowe writes in response: Snip >> He had gone to the junk yard, and found an air conditioner compressor, hooked >> it to the block by maching brackets, and ran a belt to it off the pully. Ran [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >> 100psi from it! >> Any thoughts on doing this the Rovers? >Possible I guess. But running it through lube bowls concerns me. If >he's adding oil to the air it will attack the rubber in his tires. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >100psi. >Tom Rowe quite right, that's what I get for rushing the mail! The lube bowl was actually being fed into the compressor cylinder, to lube the piston, although how he was able to regulate it I don't know, but will apparently find out as my son-in-law built a similar configuration as part of his tool & die apprenticeship, and has already offered his assistance. BS ------------------------------[ <- Message 9 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
From: BobandSueB@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:59:31 -0400 Subject: tire pump (air conditioner) Bill Skidmore writes: Snip > He had gone to the junk yard, and found an air conditioner compressor, hooked > it to the block by maching brackets, and ran a belt to it off the pully. Ran [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >> 100psi from it! >> Any thoughts on doing this the Rovers? >Possible I guess. But running it through lube bowls concerns me. If >he's adding oil to the air it will attack the rubber in his tires. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >readers) sells a vacum operated compressor that puts out around >100psi. Hi, It's quite common for a jeep,blazer, toy-l/c etc to use an air conditioner compressor to air up. At least here on the west coast. An air conditioner pump relies on oil circulation alog with the freon,but I' seen them used for years without this being a problem. One of the better ones I have seen had this done, On the output, he put a water/oil seperator so oil can't get to the tires. Then the seperator drain on bottom is slightly opened and a hose returns the oil to the input. This keeps the comp. lubricated. Also a company advertising in the four wheel magazines from so.cal. area,modifies an upright a/c compressor with an oil return line on it so the oil is contained for this purpose. I currently use my ARB compressor to air up. And have a spark plug chugger (bought from Dick Cepek years ago) as a back up. The a/c comp. would be a bit of a booger to mount in a series vehicle, but would really work fast. Bob B ------------------------------[ <- Message 10 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA> Subject: New (?) Series III Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 11:13:00 DST We picked up the #2 son's Series III last night and drove it home under the guise of Miss Golightly. Seems good, cruises comfortably at 60 mph in O/D. Only problem was with the speedo and here I'm looking for advice before I start checking everything. At the start of our trip the speedo worked fine and needle was steady. About 40 miles into journey the needle started to wave about from 40 to 70 then it decide that I was only doing 35, but I hadn't slowed down. Every time I went over a large bump it would recover for a few seconds then revert to erratic behaviour. Any suggestions? Trevor Easton, Grimsby, Ontario, teaston@dqc2.dofasco.ca ------------------------------[ <- Message 11 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Subject: LR on TV Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 11:39:40 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson <garym@cais.cais.com> -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Amoco gas is showing a new ad on TV that has a white Discovery with a caption ID'ing it as such. The ad implies that LR specifies Amoco gas as the gas of choice. -- Gary Mitchelson garym@racalrecord.com N3JPU ------------------------------[ <- Message 12 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:39:36 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM> Subject: Turner engine update All, I'm coming up on a couple of thousand miles on the Turner engine now, and I've settled back in to a normal driving routine. SO I can give you the mileage stats for a full tank run under my "normal" driving conditions. That's a minimum of 4 trips each weekday: home to daycare (7 miles), daycare to work (3 miles), and then again in the other direction. There are a few stops, turns, and lights along the way, so a fair amount of shifting up and down, and starting from a stop. Also, it's been cold enough here recently to use the choke a little bit when starting in the morning. I also make a few random trips into Charlottesville and back throughout the week. In other words, not exactly the best parameters for maximum gas efficiency! But probably pretty typical for many Rover owners. This last tank, I got just under 17 mpg. Hey, I'm ecstatic! To recap, this is an 88 with 16" wheels and overdrive (though I don't get too much of a chance for overdrive on the home-daycare segment.) It has the Zenith carb (brand new also) and stock intake and exhaust parts. The real scary part to me is, for the first time in 5 years, I am now actually able to drive fast enough to get a speeding ticket!! I have to start thinking about watching my speed again, heh heh heh... Duncan ------------------------------[ <- Message 13 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:03:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Haslam <haslam@alcor.concordia.ca> Subject: Re: 88 RR: Radio loses code > try giving one of the local car audio repair shops a call. They > probably know how to go about disabling the security codes. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > magic code that switches off the security option? Try calling them and > see what they say. Good idea. > By the way I have down loaded your 88 wiring diagrams and printed them > out - they should prove very useful. Thanks. Have you had the > opportunity to "look inside" the ECU? > disconnected you should have to enter the code to get the radio I haven't had the opportunity/need to look inside the ECU. I hope I won't need to for a while. From what Lloyd Allison was saying, the ECU on a RR is *not* hermetically sealed; it is on a Rover SD1. Lloyd was telling me about an ECU that went for a swim and was taken apart and dried out. Enjoy the wiring diagrams. Do let me know about any errors, omissions, comments. I still don't know how to get at the cable side of the ECU connector: the connector has a thin shell but no screws to remove. This means that I can't make in-circuit voltage measurements at the ECU. ...chris 88 RR ------------------------------[ <- Message 14 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:04:56 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org> Subject: New RR Follows Tradition On a visit to the local dealer yesterday, I looked underneath a new RR 4.0 SE which was in the "high profile" mode so I didn't have to bend down as far as usual. Guess what -- there was oil leaking everywhere, fresh oil on the ground, and the underside of engine and transmission nicely covered in oil. Good to know that some things never change. Cheers John Brabyn 89RR ------------------------------[ <- Message 15 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:14:43 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: New (?) Series III Easton Trevor <TEASTON@dqc2.dofasco.ca> writes: >Only problem was with the speedo... About 40 miles into journey the needle started to wave about from 40 to 70 then it decide that I was only doing 35, but I hadn't slowed down. Every time I went over a large bump it would recover for a few seconds then revert to erratic behaviour. Any suggestions? Sticky or broken speedo cable. Replace, or disassemble and grease. Michael Carradine, Architect Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA <cs@crl.com> _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html ------------------------------[ <- Message 16 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
From: "Mugele, Gerry" <Gerry.Mugele@wellsfargo.com> Subject: Tired of Tires Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:27:00 PDT Due to a little creative Michelin sidewall destruction at Hollister, my friend Gooey needs new shoes more desperately than before. I am continuing to look into all sorts of alternatives and I have been VERY satisfied with my antique Michelins so of course I checked on the Michelin XCLs. Surprise, surprise! They aren't even available to mere mortals! At least not yet. Apparently they may have a very limited quantity at some of the bigger retailers in October as a sort of market response test. hmmm... I'll keep the net posted. Gerry 72 88 *** Happiness is merely remission of pain. ************************************************************** |\_/| .-----------------------------. | @ @ Like... Woof! | Gerry Mugele | | <> _ | (Mugeleg@wellsfargo.com) | | _/\------____ ((| |)) | : A dog may bark all night, | | `--' | | but his legs | ___|_ ___| |___.' | will not grow longer. | /_/_____/____/_______| `-----------------------------' I do not speak for Wells Fargo/Wells Fargo does not speak for me. ************************************************************** ------------------------------[ <- Message 17 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:51:43 -0700 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: US metaclub Frank, per your request, here's the address of a (new) club that I think is mostly un-netted: Southern California Land Rover 210 Lille Ln. #315 Newport Beach, CA 92663 -Matt ------------------------------[ <- Message 18 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
From: William Terry <wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com> Subject: Re: Chassis paint Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:28:52 -0400 (EDT) I have had a couple of people tell me about POR-15 (or is it POR-50). One Land-Rover trained mechanic says he used in on some axel cases and then took a sledge hammer to it. It handled it fine. I believe that it is also a rust inhibitor. As for the undercoating, mine has it all over the place including all of the aluminum. Not very useful there. It's sort of stiff, so I'm going to use a paint scraper to scrape it off. Just beware of gouging the aluminum. It would take an awful large amount of very potent stuff to disolve the undercoating for cleaning. Gasoline will do it. I think I'll stick with the paint scraper. A paint heater gun and scraper may be even better. Anyone use a paint heater gun for this? ______________W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______________ How do we acquire wisdom along with all these shiny things? (David Brin) wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com http://glenfiddich.minerva.bah.com:8062/CyberJungle.html MINERVA Development Team, Booz, Allen & Hamilton ------------------------------[ <- Message 19 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:28:41 -0700 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: British license plates I noticed, but didn't follow, the thread about obtaining British license plates. In case this source wasn't mentioned, there's an ad in the September Hemmings for a U.S. company that makes all kinds of plates to order, Eurosign Metalwerke, 305-979-1448. -Matt ------------------------------[ <- Message 20 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:30:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Haslam <haslam@alcor.concordia.ca> Subject: RR Swivel pin preloading >Can anyone tell me the correct preload for RR swivel pin housings? I have the Workshop Manual for 87 to 91. Which year? ...chris ------------------------------[ <- Message 21 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:01:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Francis J. Twarog" <ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu> Subject: national assoc. Just to clear up a few things that seem to have gotten misinterpreted.... My intent behind a national association would be merely to get two major things done - 1. Have a sort of "floating" annual event in which clubs that are affiliated would be responsible for the annual event that took place in their geographic region that year. For instance, Myles Murphy's annual Owl's Head event is superb for us folks in New England (this year about 120 Land Rovers attended) - and will certainly be a highlight every summer. But if one year there was also an event in, say, Ohio or Pennsylvania or New York, all of the mid-Atlantic, New England and central state clubs and companies could attend for a very large and diverse show. The next year could be in the North Western region, etc. etc. I know that as much as I wanted to get out to Colorado for the national rally this year (and the Mid-Atlantic one as well) - and many others that I know - there was no way between work and, well, work! I also don't think that it would be a bad thing to have a club or two responsible for one years event and then "pass the torch" so-to-speak the next. 2. By having a national association that clubs were associated with might allow for a lot of positive growth and idea-sharing. Inter-club events could prosper, memberships could increase etc. etc. It would not be the sort of identity that tried to structure the way that clubs are run or anything, but a source of information for the clubs - perhaps a representative from each club could be responsible for passing on their publication or event info. An association wouldn't neccessarily need to have a publication of their own or individual membership dues - those are facets of LROA. Instead, it would be a relatively informal type of identity that was an informational source for the clubs. I'm repeating now, so I guess I've made my point. Frank Twarog Burlington, VT USA ------------------------------[ <- Message 22 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:05:36 -0700 From: lchung@sdcoe.k12.ca.us (Tarek El Rashidy+Luz Chung) Subject: New Discovery We are seriously considering buying a LR Discovery. However before we do, I would like to share some of the concerns we have regarding this car: 1) I have read 2 reviews in US 4x4 magazines that clearly state that one of the major disadvantage of the Discovery, aside from very poor acceleartion, is that it has very poor mpg (the worst of all the vehicules in its class) and to top it off, that it requires premium fuel. Yet, when asked, the salesperson told us that was not true, that it would certainly run better on super but that there was nothing in the owner manual that specified premium fuel. Was he telling the truth? 2) I have some concerns about getting the car serviced (we live in San Diego). There is only one dealer in town (monopoly?). Is the servicing expensive? Can these car be serviced anywhere else? Are the parts easy to obtain? Are they expensive? 3) Should we get a stick shift or an automatic? He was saying that it is easier to go off-road with an automatic (!?) 4) Finally he told us that black Discos only come loaded (sunroof etc) so that there is no way to get a base model, stick shift in black. I have a hard time to believe that, considering that black is an option that costs an extra $300. Any truth to that? 5) We got the impression that it would be impossible to negociate the price (except on the 95 models, which were litterally flying out of the showroom). Any comments on that? 6) What's this thing about leaking oil? tarek. ------------------------------[ <- Message 23 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Subject: Re: New (?) Series III Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:52:15 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil> Easton Trevor <TEASTON@dqc2.dofasco.ca> writes: > >Only problem was with the speedo... About 40 miles into journey the needle > started to wave about from 40 to 70 then it decide that I was only doing 35, > but I hadn't slowed down. Every time I went over a large bump it would recov > for a few seconds then revert to erratic behaviour. Any suggestions? Before you assume that it's a broken speedo or sticky cable, drop the front half of the rear propshaft and retorque the castleated nut that you find on the end of the tranny there. If that nut is loose, the gear that drives the speedo can skip and give the results that you mention. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entries from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie ------------------------------[ <- Message 24 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:33:56 -0700 Subject: Re: New Discovery On Sep 22, 1:05pm, Tarek El Rashidy+Luz Chung wrote: > Subject: New Discovery > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > and to top it off, that it requires premium fuel. Yet, when asked, the > salesperson told us that was not true, that it would certainly run better on > super but that there was nothing in the owner manual that specified premium > fuel. Was he telling the truth? False for at least the 95. The manual indicates it is to be fed premium unleaded with at least a 91 octane. However, it seems to work perfectly fine on midgrade or super with a 89 rating. I actually seem to get better mileage with 89 than premium. I would be interested to find out what is wrong with running midgrade however. I have been told that as long as it is not pinging there is no problem or damage. Comments??? > 2) I have some concerns about getting the car serviced (we live in San > Diego). There is only one dealer in town (monopoly?). Is the servicing > expensive? Can these car be serviced anywhere else? Are the parts easy to > obtain? Are they expensive? Ask up front what the various servicing costs will be. This is something that we didn't do. Our dealer (also a Cad dealer) gives a free loaner for day long work, and/or will provide limo service. The 7500 mile checkup is $45 (see below for what gets done). I consider this on the high side for basically an oil change. We recently ran into a deer (don't ask or it will raise another ruckus on the group) and had to decide where to have some repair work done. We ended up having it done at a USAA-trusted repair shop, so they felt comfortable doing the work. BTW, the front extending bar was badly creased but the rest of the whole guard was so little tweaked that I couldn't see anything wrong and assumed that he would just replace the front bar: nope, he replace the whole bambi-bar ($645) which I now have in the garage ( I am building my spare parts department one thing at a time :-) > 3) Should we get a stick shift or an automatic? He was saying that it is > easier to go off-road with an automatic (!?) > expensive? Can these car be serviced anywhere else? Are the parts easy to Religious questions are verboten here :>) We like the automatic for around town and going in tough flat and uphill grades, however in downhill where you are trying to stay off of the brakes the automatic doesn't do a great job of engine braking: the manual would seem to do better in that case. > 4) Finally he told us that black Discos only come loaded (sunroof etc) so > that there is no way to get a base model, stick shift in black. I have a > hard time to believe that, considering that black is an option that costs > obtain? Are they expensive? an > extra $300. Any truth to that? Unknown, but believable. If you are paying a premium for the black paint they probably assume that you want everything (and don't plan to take it offroad: white-like pinstripes on bold black; probably stands out really good. > 5) We got the impression that it would be impossible to negociate the price > (except on the 95 models, which were litterally flying out of the > hard time to believe that, considering that black is an option that costs showroom). > Any comments on that? It depends. We negotiated about $4000 off the total out the door price on a fully loaded automatic (leather, jumpseats, a/c, sunroofs, bambi-bar, running boards, towpackage). You just have to be willing to waste their time to the point where if they don't sell to you they have made no money for the day. We spent about 6 hours the time we finally went in to buy (+another 5 hours during previous trips); I'd say that was worth about $700 per hour we paid ourselves. There is generally alot of dealer talk about how quickly their cars are moving. Go in several times over about 3 weeks and see for yourself. (They do seem to move at times). > 6) What's this thing about leaking oil? > (except on the 95 models, which were litterally flying out of the What about it??? Nobody told you to park it on the new white carpet in the living room ;:) Seriously, we've had our Disco for about 5 months and it has a few drips from various locations. It seems to mean that it isn't dehydrated. But it isn't *leaking* oil. Besides, I would recommend getting the extended 3rd party warranty. Our dealer indicated when I was planning to take our vehicle in for the 7500 mile service ($45 for oil/filter change, fluid topoffs and lube) that if there were any leaks they would replace the faulty part instead of tightening the bolts. Not bad, but it shouldn't leak!! > tarek. >-- End of excerpt from Tarek El Rashidy+Luz Chung > hard time to believe that, considering that black is an option that costs > obtain? Are they expensive? -- Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838 ------------------------------[ <- Message 25 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 14:57:42 PDT From: Bennett Leeds <bennett@mv.us.adobe.com> Subject: Re: New Discovery Tarek El Rashidy writes > We are seriously considering buying a LR Discovery. However before > we do, I would like to share some of the concerns we have regarding > this car: Well, I've just put a deposit down on a '96, so I ain't no expert. Sounds like I'm about 2-3 weeks ahead of you in the process. Here's my impressions and beliefs: > 1) I have read 2 reviews in US 4x4 magazines that clearly state > that one of the major disadvantage of the Discovery, aside from > very poor acceleartion, is that it has very poor mpg (the worst of > all the vehicules in its class) and to top it off, that it requires > premium fuel. Yet, when asked, the salesperson told us that was not > true, that it would certainly run better on super but that there > was nothing in the owner manual that specified premium fuel. Was he > telling the truth? No, he was lying through his teeth. I've found LR salesmen to a) be slime, b) not know the car very well, and c) not know anything real LandRovers. To call him on it, ask him for a brochure (either '95 or '96), then show him the last couple of pages where it specifies premium fuel. > 2) I have some concerns about getting the car serviced (we live in > San Diego). There is only one dealer in town (monopoly?). Is the > servicing expensive? Can these car be serviced anywhere else? Are > the parts easy to obtain? Are they expensive? I understand that non-routine servicing of LRs is expensive, like most other 4 WD vehicles. While under warranty you'll be using the dealer and the cost won't matter. I imagine there are independent service places for LR's in San Diego, being so close to Car Mecca, and if the Discoveries remain popular more independent shops will open. Parts are readily available, thanks to Catepillar (the farm vehicle company), Rovers North, and Fed X. > 3) Should we get a stick shift or an automatic? He was saying that > it is easier to go off-road with an automatic (!?) I have no off-road experience, but since even on pavement no automatic is a good as a good driver and stick I can't see how it would be better off-road. After all, the transmission can't see what's happening 50 feet ahead like a good driver can. Nevertheless, people are lazy and drive in rush hour traffic. 90% of the '96 Discoveries being imported in the US are equipped with an automatic, so that's what they try to push (more profit in them, too). I ordered a stick and personally would not consider an automatic. Whatever you decide, don't let the salesmen (or me) tell you which is best - drive both and decide on your own. > 4) Finally he told us that black Discos only come loaded (sunroof > etc) so that there is no way to get a base model, stick shift in > black. I have a hard time to believe that, considering that black > is an option that costs an extra $300. Any truth to that? No. 5% of the Discoveries are base model manuals. All model configurations are available in all colors according to a factory to dealer model availability sheet that I have. However, he may not be getting any black base model manuals in the shipments he knows about. BTW, are you sure you want a clear coated paint job on a off-road vehicle? I also think that next summer when the temp in San Diego breaks 110 that sitting in a black Discovery without the rear A/C you'll be sorry. > 5) We got the impression that it would be impossible to negociate > the price (except on the 95 models, which were litterally flying > out of the showroom). Any comments on that? Depends on the dealer, his competition, and his market. Being the only dealer for miles, and considering that the '96s are just out, that could be true. I convinced the Car Club negotiating service to try to "break" Land Rover, and they did - I ordered a '96 for reasonably less than sticker considering the '96s are just out. If I wanted a '95, Car Club found one for me at $2700 off of sticker (these are vehicles with no dealer added options). Before you get any dealer added options get catalogs from Rovers North and British Atlantic to compare prices. One saleslime told me the CD player was $1000 but he'd only charge me $700 plus installation. I walked around the corner to the parts department and found out that the list price is $692 plus 1/2 hour installation time if I wanted that (and he said he'd be surprised if I did). Rovers North sells the exact same unit for under $600, for instance. > 6) What's this thing about leaking oil? It's a British car thing. From what I've seen of the demonstrator units, get used to it. - Bennett Leeds bennett@mv.us.adobe.com ------------------------------[ <- Message 26 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:56:37 -0800 From: holland@catapent.com (Shannon Holland) Subject: Defender Shop Manuals I just stopped by my local land rover dealer and enquired into a shop manual for a 94 Defender 90. I was quoted a price of $240 for binder, manaual and latest updates. This seems to a little beyond (by maybe $160) what I was expecting/wanting to pay. He did offer me 15% off, but I was wondering what other options (if any) there are out there. Alternaltely, what have other people paid for them (I went to San Jose British Motors). Shannon ------------------------------[ <- Message 27 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
From: Robert Watson (CNA) <a-robw@microsoft.com> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 15:31:02 TZ Subject: Re: New Discovery my $.02... ---------- | > 4) Finally he told us that black Discos only come loaded (sunroof etc) so | > that there is no way to get a base model, stick shift in black. I have a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] | an | > extra $300. Any truth to that? My Black 95 Disco came only with Auto, Jump seats & Sunroofs (no leather, no CD, etc). The brush marks definitely _DO_ stand out on the black (so be prepared to buff, if you go off road) and it get's toasty when sitting in a parking lot. But, even still, I like how it looks, when it's clean, anyway. :-) I think the option matrix has been revised for 96 to where you can get a manual in any color (but I can't recall for sure) | > 5) We got the impression that it would be impossible to negociate the price | > (except on the 95 models, which were litterally flying out of the | > hard time to believe that, considering that black is an option that costs | showroom). | > Any comments on that? That's what they'd like you to think, of course, but most will budge to some degree if pushed. YMMV, of course. -- Bob W. '95 Disco ------------------------------[ <- Message 28 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
From: Cw117h@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:05:02 -0400 Subject: Greetings list! I'm afraid this is but a brief visit back to the old list, as I have found myself moldering in a pile of academic rubble larger than some L-R breakers yards I've seen, and the future does not look much brighter. When things ease, I shall sign back on. In the meantime, I can report that my IIa 109 has arrived (more or less in one piece) in Houston. After a thorough going over and hassle with customs, the USDA, and the CET, I now have him in my posession.. awaiting paper for Texas plates. Anyone who would like details (or to be talked out of trying to import your own), drop me a line. AOL is my temporary address while the medical school's server is down for upgrades. I will check mail here. I'm very pleased to see diesel at $1.03/gallon. That's about what I paid per litre in the UK. Egad. I'm also pleased to see that my small but excellent local BMW specialist (fixed major disasters on the 2002 for the six years before I moved overseas) is now branching out into Rovers. If anyone in the Houston area is looking for an independant who handles Land Rovers, I cannot recommend him highly enough (unfortunately he thinks I can't pay him highly enough either...) Unfortunately, I'm a bit shocked by the insurance rates (USAA) I've been quoted, and I'd love to hear from anyone who is insuring an old 109 at a rate they like in a reasonably built-up (high risk) area. Harris county is bad, but $600/year for liabiliy only seems a bit high... in fact it's more than the 2002 annually (115 bhp on two-door sports car vs. 62 bhp on big-fat truck... which would be higher risk? you decide.) Thats the news in brief, hope all are well, and I will susbscribe again when I next come up for a breath. Cheers, Charlie C. R. Wright Baylor College of Medicine Houston, Tx ------------------------------[ <- Message 29 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 18:29:36 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Defender Shop Manuals Shannon Holland <holland@catapent.com> writes: >I just stopped by my local land rover dealer and enquired into a shop manual for a 94 Defender 90. I was quoted a price of $240 for binder, manaual and latest updates. This seems to a little beyond (by maybe $160) what I was expecting/wanting to pay. He did offer me 15% off, but I was wondering what other options (if any) there are out there. Alternaltely, what have other people paid for them. Shannon, Call British Pacific in Burbank and get a copy of Land Rover Owner (LRO) magazine ($6 plus post), or get Land Rover World (LRW), sometimes found at Barnes & Noble Bookstores. Anyway, in these magazines are adds for LR publications and most things you'd ever want for your Defender (as well as Disco's, Series vehicles, etc.). For instance, LRO Books (01379-890111, Fax 01379-898244)* sells the LR Workshop Manual for the Defender 90/110, 1983-1993 at #39.95 (plus #3.50 postage per book surface, or #6.50 per book airmail to the US), the Disco 1995 -excluding electrics- is #50.99, and the Disco electrics is also #50.99. They also have parts catalogs, Defender 90, 1984 on, and Disco 1989 on, at #44.99 each. Looking at todays GNN/Koblas Currency Converter Web page at http://bin.gnn.com/cgi-bin/gnn/currency the dollar is worth about #0.646 plus exchange fees, making your intutive estimate of $80 for a Workshop Manual, delivered to your door, just about right :) As to getting a '94 D-90 Manual, it may be available by now, if not, there are probably very little differences with the '93 model (maybe your dealer is trying to sell you the '93 Manual anyway, with 'updates'). *to call the UK from the US, dial 011-44 and the number above without the leading 0 (I think :). Michael Carradine, Architect Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA <cs@crl.com> _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html ------------------------------[ <- Message 30 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
From: ecoethic@rcinet.com Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:14:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Chassis Paint & Ohio Club Steve Reddock asked about durable chassis paint. I would recommend Bill Hirsch's "Miracle Paint" (201-642-2404). It comes in three colors - black, silver, and clear. Its brushable, and sprayable with appropriate thinner. Two coats over rusted metal will effectively seal it to moisture. I've used it on rusty snowplows, frames, and gas tanks with good results. It drys very hard, and if you get it on your skin, clean it off right away with thinner. If it drys on you, it will be there until it wears off in about a week or so. Cost is about $25 a quart, and put a piece of wax paper over the top before you put the lid back on, or you won't get it off without destroying the can (its a great glue too, can be mixed with fiberglass for repairs). I would like to know more about an Ohio club too! I'll wager that the organizer is a person in Cincinnati that owns several Rovers including a Dormobile. He stopped at my house to look at my Rovers a few weeks ago. We talked so much about Rovers, I forgot his name! There are at least a dozen known Series Rovers in Ohio and many more Discoveries and Range Rovers, but we really don't have much in the way of interesting terrain, unless you count clay-based mud. Walt Pokines Tipp City, Ohio Protected by Avon's ------------------------------[ <- Message 31 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:23:34 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rover Rally OK gang, the Rally is just a week away and everything in on-line. Picked up the T-shirts today: a stunning five-color design. We're even getting rain to fill up the mud pit. For those who came in late: this will likely be the largest gathering of Land-Rover on the continent this year (if this year's registrations are compared with last year's and the total count - 86). Rovers North, DAP and ABP will all be there. Lots of neat prizes and giveaways, including a pair of 16" Dunlop Radial Rover tires. Tech sessions, the teeter-totter, blindfold obstacle course, maybe even a "slow race". Also, the Aluminium Man Triathlon (trials course plus), catered BBQ, bluegrass music, and a scenic rail excursion. There is plenty of room for camping on site; the nearby motels, lodges and B&B's are probably booked. One last time: The site is a mile west of US RT 15 on county road 671. The turn-off is about six miles south of the RT 15 bridge over the James River in Buckingham County, Virginia which is the geographic center of the state. A lot of work has gone into this rally...so get out and enjoy it! But...we need to know just how many mouths we need to feed for the BBQ and the catered brunch (on the train) the next day. Sooo...if you want to attend, I need your name, address and number of people for the BBQ and the rail excursion the next day. There is a $15 registration fee (to pay for the tents, porta potties, etc.)up front while the meals and rail excursion can be purchased on site at cost. But we need to know if you are coming ASAP, like as in *yesterday*. (I've got to get a final count to the caterer Tuesday.) Address replies to the address in the sig.block. The site is quite rural with the entire sweep of the Blue Ridge visible from the farm. Don't miss the Land Rover event of the year! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------[ <- Message 32 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 950923 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
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