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Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 04:16:21 -0400
From: bbonner@mail.htp.com (Brian Bonner)
Subject: Re: Environmental Abuse (Was: Rover Abuse)

>> ever listened. The goverment in is Kindergarten mode; someone did this, so
>> all of you will be punished for it. This has been happeneing for ten years
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>> plus now. the only difference is now it is over things people care about.
>> think about it.

Ug. That is one of the most incoherent messages I can remember posting.
thanks for being kind.

>I fear its a little more complicated than this but there certainly is this
>aspect to the whole thing.   One problem which really sticks with me, and one
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>that Mike R. has strong feelings on (g) is that of personal responsibility
>for your own actions.

That was my point. the point is eveyone makes it too complicated. Like most
things in life, it is not complicated, it is simple. People complicate
things, that are simple. Hence, the world is a mess. Nothing is complicated.
The hairs on the back of my neck stand on end every time I hear that phrase.
Life is simple. People are complicated......

>Plenty of people and governments are scared witless of major law suits
>following injury to people doing stupid things.  In the NT (OZ)
>this certainly has had an impact on where you can go and how places are
>setup.

yup. But, why? We made it complictaed. Most lawsuits like the one that
follows are absolutely ridiculous. And they should be treated as such.
>As an example of the problem consider this case:
>14 Yo girl falls off beach side cliff @ ~2am following drinking bing with
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>always certain.....
>just my gripe

Mine too! People have complicted what is simple....

I get grief for SCUBA diving alone. Who should tell me where , and what I
should do with my life? I get the argument that rescue divers will have to
risk their life to recover my dead body. What? Who asked them to be recue
divers? BTW, I am a Rescue diver and a New York City Paramedic of 7 years
experience. If I wish to risk my life it is my business. I am sick of the
circular impact on society theory. Including Helmets and Seatbelts. It does
not matter that it is safer. It is my life. When we allow the GOVT. to run a
conveluted argument on how, for instance, head trauma from motorcyclists
increase insurance premiums, and therefor, they can make a law to prtect us
from them, we have become a ridiculous society. Heck I can make a stronger
argument for Armor in the shower! Statisticly speaking. My message? Be
careful of what power you give the Govt.
                                        
                                   -=>Brian<=-

------------------------------

From: sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 10:23:50 BST
Subject: Which V6?

The V6's which have been discussed recently (or at least the ones I am
discussing) are both 2.8l and 3.0l Ford V6 engines also known as the Cologne
and Essex engines respectively.  They were fitted to European Fords of
various types, such as the Capri, Granada and Transit Vans.

The 3.0l is the earlier one and is also slightly less powerful/refined I
believe.  The 3.0 is preferred by the racers however as the power potential
is higher for it.  Or perhaps it is just perceived that way as the faster
2.8s had fuel injection and to your average engine builder hard, to modify.

Most of the 2.8s I have heard of fitted to L/Rs have been the lower spec
carb. engine.  I don't know of any reason for this apart from cost.

As far as insurance goes I am only paying 160 UKP for third party F/T and I
am only 23.

I would go for a short wheel base though because it is lighter than the
long wheel base & hence faster.  Although the extra room of a 109 would
be nice at times.  But then again I am a bit of a hooligan at times.  When
it is safe to give it some stick, I have no hesitation in wellying it. I have
not found the 88" to be overly twitchy.  I have never spun it.  I can balance
it on the throttle exiting roundabouts and whilst at the Southern Hill Rally
a few weeks ago I was able to hold some lovely 4 wheel drifts when in 4 wheel
drive on the loose.  Great fun!

It all comes down to what ever you want from your vehicle.  You pays your
money and takes your choice as they say.

------------------------------

From: Richard Jones <rich@apricot.mee.com>
Subject: Re: Heretic!
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 11:17:06 +0100 (BST)

Ian.Stuart writes:
> 	The competition insurance is underwritten by the ARC, and they have strict 
> 	rules reguarding vehicles (it's all in the ARC handbook ;-)

My understanding is that the insurance is underwritten by the RAC MSA not the ARC and
that the RAC MSA have no problem with the diesel engine conversions entering competitions!

__ 
  _ __              Apricot Computer Limited
 ' )  )      /      3500 Parkside                 Tel:   (+44) 121 717 7171
  /--' o _. /_      Birmingham Business Park      Fax:   (+44) 121 717 0123
 /  <_<_(__/ <_     BIRMINGHAM  B37 7YS
 Richard Jones      United Kingdom                Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk 

------------------------------

From: Richard Jones <rich@apricot.mee.com>
Subject: Heretic!
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 11:06:50 +0100 (BST)

sreddock@vnet.ibm.com writes:
>	I believe that the Range Rover Register
> 	have had to leave the ARC for exactly this reason.

Just to put the record straight here

We (the Range Rover Register) didn't have to leave the ARC for any reason,  At our last
AGM the members present voted to leave the ARC as a result of the ARC's current financial
situation.  Then at a later meeting with ARC officials present it was decided to change our
status from that of Competative Club to non-Competative Club rather than leave the ARC 
altogether.

However, the engine issue was one of the major considerations when making this change, 
since it would appear that the majority of our members who would enter competative events
have older vehicles with non Land Rover diesel engine conversions.  We have already attempted
an ARC rule change to allow diesel conversions to enter closed club events with no sucess.
 
__ 
  _ __              Apricot Computer Limited
 ' )  )      /      3500 Parkside                 Tel:   (+44) 121 717 7171
  /--' o _. /_      Birmingham Business Park      Fax:   (+44) 121 717 0123
 /  <_<_(__/ <_     BIRMINGHAM  B37 7YS
 Richard Jones      United Kingdom                Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk 

------------------------------

From: Trefor Delve <delve1t@nectech.co.uk>
Subject: More V6 bits
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 11:29:00 GMT

Steve,

Another reason the Essex engine may be the choice of the racers is that it 
has six exhaust ports compared to the Cologne's four.  Losing the Siamesed 
ports is an easier way to reduce pumping losses.

On that subject, do you know if the 2.9i engine has four or six exhaust 
ports ?.

Trefor.
tdelve@nectech.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: 12 Sep 95 20:54:04 EDT
From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com>
Subject: cooling fans

There are many electric cooling fans which can be adapted to fit in the front or
the rear of the lr radiator.
  Observe the direction  of rotation of the fan in the original location and
whether it pushes air thro the rad or pulls it thro, keep this the same, as the
fan is designed for one direction use only for max efficiency. 
 One important tip, fix the fan as close as possible to the radiator, if
necessary make a plastic or rubber shroud to eliminate a gap between the fan
cowl and the radiator to ensure that the air is pushed or drawn thro the rad and
not from the gap between the cowl and the rad. A gap of 5 mm ( 3/16" ) could
reduce performance by 30 % or more.

 Regards  Bill Leacock   Limey in exile.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Wed, 13 Sep 1995 07:01:17 GMT -0600
Subject:       Re: I'm bleeding and can't stop...

-Michael Carradine writes:
>  An article in the AB or RN newsletter a while back pointed out that
>  the older Series models should not be jacked up to bleed the brakes.
>  Apparently this traps air in the rear (?) brake cylinders.

Hmmm. This contradicts the shop manual for the CB type master 
cylinder. Did they make any reference to that?

TeriAnn writes:
snip
>to bleed your tyre so as not to blow the E-Z bleed's seals, or you can find a 
>garage that does power bleeding and bring some DOT 4 with you.  I'm doing more 
>of the latter lately.  You can generally get a lot of power bleeds done for you 
Snip

TeriAnn,
You actually are comfortable that the garage is getting the other 
nasty brake fluid out of their unit before bleeding your system?

I made my own bleeder for CB systems that seems to work. I got an old 
pressure cooker, drilled a hole in the center and installed a fitting that 
allows a brake pipe to be attached to the inside and outside. The 
inside one is about 6" long and fits into a can of fluid. The other 
goes to an old brake canister cap. I installed a air fitting in the 
lid of the pressure cooker, set my compressor regulator to 
just a few  pounds and pumped it up.
It's a little messy, but the only pressure bleeders I could find at 
the time were around $100US.

Jimmy,
I've also had good luck with backing off the adjusters all the way, 
bleeding, and then readjusting them to the proper setting. Others on 
this list will contradict that , I believe, but it's worked for me. 
Hell, if you're desperate try it both ways.
Also, did you say you replaced your flex lines? They tend to swell 
internally with age and so when you press your pedal you are 
compressing the walls of the flex lines instead of your brake shoes.

You should be able to isolate the problem by clamping all of your brake 
lines. If you do that and your pedal is like a rock, you know it isn't 
air in the MC. Release the clamps one at a time and test.
I made clamps with three pairs of small needle nose Vice Grips, 
grinding the jaws round so as not to damage the brake lines. You don't 
need to clamp them hard to get the lines to seal, fairly light pressure will 
do.
Good luck.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Wed, 13 Sep 1995 07:20:35 GMT -0600
Subject:       Re: Power brake servo

David Place writes:
Snip
> On another point.  I have never tried this but my mechanic friend who 
> worked for a carb rebuilding shop says if you don't have carb cleaner to 
> soak your carb in use vinegar.  It might be a bit more eco conscious than 
> the strong agents we normally use.  I suspect it would need more time to 
> work but it should do the trick.  Dave VE4PN

For those who have access to one, I had great success, back when I was 
doing a lot of Solex carbs, using an ultrasonic cleaner. I'd take the 
carb apart, take it into work and trot on down to the lab. If they 
weren't using it they were quite accomadating in letting me use their 
cleaner. The carbs usually came out quite nice looking.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 08:55:49 EDT
From: dmorris@med.unc.edu (Tony Morris)
Subject: London Parts 

I'm going to London and wonder if anyone has experience buying parts or 
accessories for Disco or other LR there. Cheaper? More Selection? Difficult 
to get into US? Specific Places to shop?
Thanks Tony Morris

------------------------------

From: PDoncaster@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:57:47 -0400
Subject: My first Land Rover

 
Does anyone know what the "b" suffix on the serial number of my series '64
IIA 88"  means? 

Also, I'm having trouble with my insurance co., they consider my Rover "high
risk" and won't renew my policy. Does anyone know a national carrier who
won't squalk at LRO'S?

Peter Doncaster
New Orleans, LA
PDoncaster@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:38:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Canvas Top Treatment

On Wed, 13 Sep 1995 RICKCRIDER@aol.com wrote:

> to preserve and waterproof it, but also to darken it.   How 'bout a product
> like 'Thompsons Water Seal'.....and.....should I attempt to 'dye' it before
> waterproofing?  

	Thompsons (applied liberally with a mop) has been used with success
	up here in Canada on LR tops, but dye the sucker first.  BTW,
	Thompsons works well over the paint that the army used to camo 
	colour their tops, keeping it intact...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:42:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Environmental Abuse (Was: Rover Abuse)

On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, Daryl Webb wrote:

> 14 Yo girl falls off beach side cliff @ ~2am following drinking bing with
> older friend. older friend discovers 14 yo at bottom of cliff when they
> recover ~ 9.00am.  14 Yo now paralised due to spinal injury sues council and
> Parks and Wildlife on a duty of care basis.  (baricades/fencing/sign posting
> insufficient) 

	How about 14 year old boy gets into city gravel quary with friends
	to have fun.  Gets himself paralised.  Parents sue city & win first
	round.  Gov't appeals, pointing out that kids keep chopping holes
	in the heavy fencing and they can't be responsible for stupidity.
	Gov't won on appeal.

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 09:38:54 EST
Subject: Re: London Parts 

Paid a visit to Brownchurch's in '87 or so while on shore 
leave.  Bought a pair of Fairey FWHs.  Upon showing a US 
driver's license (or was it passport?), they deducted VAT!  
Customs in Italy and US had no problem, just a mild 
curiosity, with these in my luggage.  Actually the 
flak-jacketed, automatic-toting Italian customs "agents" 
seemed more interested in the Meat Loaf and Kate Bush CD's 
I'd also brought back.  

As long as it's not a crate of parts, if you can lose VAT 
and shipping by visiting personally, it's a really good 
deal.  It does seem, however, that as the Rover support base 
has increased in the US in recent years, the price 
differential has decreased.  Still, isn't the whole point of 
a Yank visiting the UK ... HMS Victory, Westminster Abbey, 
and Brownchurch's?

Just my impression.

Regards,
Hank

> Subject: London Parts 
> Author:  dmorris@med.unc.edu (Tony Morris) at Zeus

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
> to get into US? Specific Places to shop?
> Thanks Tony Morris

------------------------------

Date: 13 Sep 95 09:44:58 EDT
From: Paul.Smail@Washcoll.EDU (Paul Smail)
Subject: Haynes Guide

Is the Haynes "Guide to Purchase & DIY Restoration: Land Rover Series I,II
&III" book available in the U.S.? I tried to order it through the college
bookstore but apparently it wasn't found in "Books In Print." I know for a
fact that the shop manuals are in "Books In Print" and that Haynes, U.K. has
a California distribution house. Anyway, thanks in advance for any help;
meanwhile I'll go digging through the local Barnes & Noble.
Ah, college life, when all will be karmically perfect should there be a
Series III.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 10:04:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Re: canvas top treatment

Rick,

> The top has some age on it,  but no snags,  tears,  etc.   Was, (should be )
> black...has faded to gray.    Would like to treat it with something, not only
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> waterproofing?   Who else better to ask about preserving and waterproofing
> tricks than LRO's.....right?   Thanks folks.

    When I bought a new canvas top, I asked the folks at RN what they'd
    recommend for waterproofing it when the time came.  They recommended
    something called "Canvac" (and of course had some on hand to sell
    me!)  It comes in a gallon can with pictures of military transport
    vehicles on it...  I've just now got enough age on my top that I
    should think about applying some, so I can't yet give any
    testimonial on how well it works.

    Given the dire warnings on the can, I'm amazed that anyone is
    allowed to own this stuff, so I figure it's the good stuff, heh heh
    heh...

    If you're ever up in Central VA I'd be happy to let you try some; a
    gallon seems like a pretty long term supply.

    Duncan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 07:15:22 -0700
From: burns@lint.cisco.com (Russell burns)
Subject: Re: Canvas Top Treatment

>> to preserve and waterproof it, but also to darken it.   How 'bout a product
>> like 'Thompsons Water Seal'.....and.....should I attempt to 'dye' it before
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>	Thompsons works well over the paint that the army used to camo 
>	colour their tops, keeping it intact...
Damn, a new landrover service "LandRover dipping". We could attach
snorkles, and drive the whole bloody vehicle thru the mess of thompsons water
seal.
Just think, top waterproofing, paint sealant, carpet protecter(if installed)
ignition waterproofer, Frame protectent, Oil sealer (might need some testing)
radiator stop leak, Personal rainware, Personal hair stylizer,
The possibilities are endless.... A franchise for the taking..

Russ

Russ Burns________________________________________________________________
CiscoSystems

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 10:16:59 -0400
From: Ron Taylor <rtaylor@coil.com>
Subject: Personal responsibility (was environmental abuse)

At 4:16 AM 9/13/95, Brian Bonner wrote:

 > If I wish to risk my life it is my business. I am sick of the
 > circular impact on society theory. Including Helmets and Seatbelts. It do=
es
 > not matter that it is safer. It is my life.

Generally I avoid issues such as this as it simply stirs up emotions and=
 dogmatic responses, but I cannot let this go by.

You are entirely correct that it is your life and if you want to risk it=
 that should be your choice.  I have no problem with that.  The problem is=
 that sometimes you don't die.  When you don't die and end up paraplegic or=
 with a severe closed head injury, it *will* cost $500,000 to $1,000,000 per=
 year to care for you.  No matter how good of insurance (you do have=
 insurance don't you?) you have, it will not pay that amount for long, so=
 (in the US) you end up on Medicare & Medicaid.  We taxpayers pay for that. =
 If you have the $ to pay for your care privately, or if Dr. Kevorkian is=
 your doctor, that's fine.  If not, I and many other citizens are paying for=
 your care.  As parents are prone to say, "if you live under our roof..." =
 The point being, if you want to have the freedom to chose your actions, you=
 must be willing to accept the responsibility to deal with the consequences.=
  Since that responsibility has been abdicated to the government (i.e.=
 people), the government has also taken steps to limit their (our) $ losses.=
  This is not circular, but rather direct actions and consequences.

How does this relate to Rovers?

Perhaps one of these good chaps with a snorkel unit could recover your body=
 instead of risking the rescue divers, we know the Rovers always make it thr=
ough.

Cheers

(anyone with any extra fiberglass tape to help staunch the anticipated=
 flames would be welcome)

   Ron Taylor

------------------------------

From: Franz.Parzefall@Physik.TU-Muenchen.DE
Subject: Re: Canvas Top Treatment
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 16:19:26 +0200 (MET DST)

On Wed, 13 Sep 1995 RICKCRIDER@aol.com wrote:

> to preserve and waterproof it, but also to darken it.   How 'bout a product
> like 'Thompsons Water Seal'.....and.....should I attempt to 'dye' it before
> waterproofing?  

I recently tried a thing called firemac (made in the UK) on the tents
of my scoutgroup. Seems to be much better than all we used before. The
fluid is dark grey (nearly black) so it will be best on black canvas.
A sideeffect is fireproofing. Here it's sold in 5l cans for roughly
150.-DM ( ~100US$ ). 
I sprayed it on my canvas anorak, too. Worked great!

Franz Parzefall     fparzefa@physik.tu-muenchen.de
       _______
      [____|\_\==
      [_-__|__|_-]           exmil. 110 2.5D
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__.._
                                  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 10:42:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Haslam <haslam@alcor.concordia.ca>
Subject: 88 RR Schematics by mail ...

John:

I can mail them to you, or FAX them.

A $5 bill (not a check) would be appreciated.  When there are updates, 
remind me that I owe you, and I'll send you a freebie or two.  (Mail 
across the 49th parallel costs!)

...chris

------------------------------

From: kleihors@prl.philips.nl
Subject: Re: bleeding an not stopping
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 17:18:50 METDST

Hi Jimmy,

and if you do find the culprit wheelcylinder using the vise grip method 
of Dave ea, you can definately improve the bleeding with the bleeder
screw facing upward. This is done by loosening the backplates and lying
them flat. 
This trick did wonders for my LWB right front (with dual wheelcylinders,
probably different from your "88). 

Regarding the guy that goes round the property to find his firm pedal move
closer to the floor. Also suffered through this, the cause was an adjuster
that constantly returned by itself (too much oil?). Cure was a file to 
enhance the "little steps" and a little piece of wire to increase the turning
resistance.

Very much enjoying my '63 LWB SW,
Regards,
--
    
 Richard P. Kleihorst,     | Voice phone: +31-40-742468
 Philips Research, WAY-41, | Fax phone:   +31-40-744657 
 Prof. Holstlaan 4,        | E-mail:
 5656 AA Eindhoven,        | kleihors@natlab.research.philips.com 
 The Netherlands.          |

------------------------------

From: Guy Arnold <GUY@facade.adm.clarkson.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 11:44:06 EDT
Subject: British Invasion, Stowe,VT

I was wondering if any Ottawa Valley club members were going to Stowe 
this year or is everyone heading to Toronto? I will be leaving Friday 
at noon and traveling over on Route 11 to Rouses Point and down Rt 89 
to the exit for Smuggler's Notch. I usually go through the Notch 
because it saves time and is a pretty route. I will be driving my 
1973 Series III swb "Green Machine" and my wife will be driving our 
1960 MGA 1600 roadster (bright red). We are staying at the Scandavian 
Inn on the Mountain Rd.(My sister owns the it so I can't beat the 
price.) If the Ottawa Club members are going, where are you going to 
be 
based? I would like the chance to meet some the group and drink a few 
hearty ales.

Guy Arnold
Potsdam, NY
1973 Series III swb "Green Machine"
1960 MGA 1600 roadster

------------------------------

From: "T.F. Mills" <tomills@du.edu>
Subject: Re: book wanted
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 10:12:07 -0600 (MDT)

John Hess asks about the availability of "Roddy Owen's Africa".

I assume you have a located a library copy, but want your own.  If not, 
quite a few libraries in the US have it available for inter-library loan, 
including UCLA and UC Berkeley.

As for getting your own copy, look for a good used bookstore that has a 
search service.  Usually you pay nothing for the search service unless 
they find a copy of the book, and then you pay for the book (according to 
its rarity, etc.) and probably even more for the search fee.

Good luck!

T. F. Mills
tomills@du.edu                               University of Denver Library
http://www.du.edu/~tomills                          Denver  CO 80208  USA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:26:35 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Haynes Guide

 Paul Smail <Paul.Smail@washcoll.edu> writes:

>Is the Haynes "Guide to Purchase & DIY Restoration: Land Rover Series I,II
>&III" book available in the U.S.? ... Haynes, U.K. has a California
>distribution house. Anyway, thanks in advance for any help;

 Try British Pacific in Burbank, 800-554-4133, 818-841-8945, Fax 818-841-3825.
 They just recently brought me the Haynes II/III repair manual, and I think
 they had the restoration guide too at the Palo Alto All-British meet.

 Michael Carradine, Architect                          Ph/Fax 510-988-0900
 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA    <cs@crl.com>
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:00:27 -0400
From: bbonner@mail.htp.com (Brian Bonner)
Subject: Re: Environmental Abuse (Was: Rover Abuse)

>To: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
>From: bbonner@mail.htp.com (Brian Bonner)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)]
>>and the company had to cover *their* splattered brains.
>That is not the point. First your insurance did not go down after the law
was introduced. Second Helmets are useless over 20 mph. Third they restrict
your peripheral vision. Fourth the impair your hearing and actually amplify
engine noise. fifth, teach people how to properly operate their vehicles,
which would actually prevent acidents. sixth, it had nothing to do with law
suits, but medical bills, which is another mess. And lastly that is not the
point. When you read on in the post, you would have seen my point, that
using that line of indirect cause and effect, the Govt. can make almost
anything a Law. Including protective gear in the shower.
>>On the other hand helmets and seatbelts will help you to maintian 
>>control in some situations and so keep you from ending up in someone 
>>elses path and maybe causing them to be injured. I belive 
>I believe you mean seatbelts not helmets. Helmets actually hamper your

ability to properly use a Motorcycle. Thats why the law has been defeated in
Canada for over 6 years. And again with this circular thinking, I can tell
you what to do for a living, how many children you can have, if any, where
you can live, whom you can marry, ect. It all effects society in some way.
Be careful the power you give the Govt.
>Educate, not legislate. Teach people how to properly drive, and the
>>control in some situations and so keep you from ending up in someone 
benefits of seatbelts. The choice should still remain the individuals.
>we as 
>>humans should consider how our actions impact others.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>>enough to get in over my head, let me die".
>I'm sorry. The problems you are concerned with comes down to dollars and
cents. You cannot put a price on freedom. Also, the problems with insurance
have nothing to do with accidents. Thats what insurance is for. But,
actually make a claim and your rates rise. Why? Simple you cut into their
billion dollar profit margin. You would rather low premiums and no freedoms.
In that case, offroading is also a dangerous sport. It can be considered one
you know. So now that is restricted and you cannot do what you enjoy. How
would you like it if this happened? There is no life without risk. People
must finally come to terms with the harse reality of life. People get hurt,
crippled, and yes, Die. If everyone would stop trying to make this such a
safe place we would all be better off. Soon we will live in a sterile world.
Even Sex will be outlawed. To risky and messy.
>>There was a piece recently on the radio about the cost of mtn rescues. 
>>The resuce services are in a catch 22. People do stupid things, then sue
>>As for diving, mtn climbing etc., maybe we need someting equivalent to 
the park 
>>service if they don't bail them out. IMHO I don't expect it to 
>>change, so I try to make the best of a bad situation.
>Thats the fault of our judicial system. Frivalous law suits are another by
>>"Do not ressucitate" tags. A sign people could put up, "If I'm dumb 
>>enough to get in over my head, let me die".
product of what I was saying above. People want everything to be absolutely
safe. It is sick in my opinion.
>>service if they don't bail them out. IMHO I don't expect it to 
>>change, so I try to make the best of a bad situation.
                                        
                                   -=>Brian<=-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:00:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: British Invasion, Stowe,VT

On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, Guy Arnold wrote:

> I was wondering if any Ottawa Valley club members were going to Stowe 
> this year or is everyone heading to Toronto? 

	Don't know of any Ottawa members going to Toronto at this time.
	A number of local members are heading down Friday morning, others
	later in the day.  I expect the OVLR U.S. contingent to be larger
	than the Canadian at Stowe.

	The route is still open for debate here.  The vehicles with the club
	trailer will not be going over the Notch, though some of us like
	to take the Notch road and see how many hundred yards it takes 
	before complete brake fade and putting it into low range with the
	angry Jag owners honking behind... :-)

> I would like the chance to meet some the group and drink a few 
> hearty ales.

	I don't think you will have to worry about this... <grin>  BTW,
	how many cases can we bring into the USA per vehicle/person?
	Any idea?

	Rgds,

	Dixon

------------------------------

From: Trinitee@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:04:11 -0400
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

unsubscribe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 10:11:43 -0700
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: '87 RR misc. problems

> 1. "Low coolant" light flashing. Coolant is full, but stopped flashing when
> I added some anyway, and the light went out for a while, then started again
> after a few starts and stops. I'd suspect the coolant level sensor? Maybe a
> leaking float in the sensor?

Used to happen to me all the time too, when I lived at 4500 feet.  Now that 
I live at roughly sea level it doesn't happen anymore.  I don't know if 
there's a correlation.  If the sensor detects coolant pressure, as opposed 
to level, then perhaps there is.  For me, the light always stopped flashing 
after driving about 15 minutes.

> 2. "Parking brake light" constantly on. Not sure, but maybe brake is not
> fully disengaging? Haven't felt the drum yet after driving, to see if it's
> hot.

I'm not sure, but I think this light is supposed to indicate not only 
parking break on, but also other brake problems.  In my experience there has 
been a correlation between this light coming on and worn rotors or low fluid.

> 4. Anyone know of an inexpensive source for the seat switches? Mine are not
> only not functioning, but totally broken, and need replaced. (can't fix
> these ones. :( )

I sympathize, but after ignoring non-functioning passenger seat controls for 
as long as I could (about 1.5 years), in desperation I removed the unit and 
disassembled it.  Those of you who have done this are probably chuckling.  
When you open it, you are rewarded with a confetti-like burst of little 
brass bits and steal ball bearings.  Inside, this unit is entirely 
steam-age, with maybe a dozen little contacts that, with time and use, 
become charred until they no longer function.  I ended up buying a 
replacement from the dealer, for $135!  However, due to the unavoidable 
effects of wear, I would not recommend a used part.  I might add that I did 
not replace the plastic knobs and cover, as I can live without them.

Incidently, I am confounded to understand why even the most recent classic 
Range Rovers appear to feature the exact same unreliable devices.

-Matt
'88 RR

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:32:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Rusty D90s in Wisconsin?

>You wrote... >The local diet of beer, bratwurst (if your not
from WI you've never had a real one)

>I'll bet there are about 80-90 million Germans, Austrians and Swiss who
would disagree with you.

They wouldn't after they tasted one.  You obviously haven't had a smoked
Sheboygan brat.

Tony

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 10:42:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Environmental Abuse (Was: Rover Abuse)

Hear Hear

John

On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, Brian Bonner wrote:

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
> plus now. the only difference is now it is over things people care about.
> think about it.
>                                    -=>Brian<=-

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:59:47 -0400
Subject: Re: '87 RR misc. problems

>>I sympathize, but after ignoring non-functioning passenger seat controls
for as long as I could (about 1.5 years), in desperation I removed the unit
and disassembled it.  Those of you who have done this are probably chuckling.
 When you open it, you are rewarded with a confetti-like burst of little
brass bits and steal ball bearings.  Inside, this unit is entirely steam-age,
with maybe a dozen little contacts that, with time and use, become charred
until they no longer function.<<

They're easy to clean, and it doesn't take much more than a little patience,
a Q-tip, and a small piece of sand paper to do it.  There really isn't much
to break, but a lot to get dirty & charred.

Tony

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 10:57:52 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: '87 RR misc. problems

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: '87 RR misc. problems

Thanks Matt, I too, took apart the worst of the two seat adjusters, the
passenger seat one, and was greeted in much the same way! (Many tiny little
springs and balls and bits flying out) Reminded me of the "Pandora's box"
fable. Unfortunately, this seat is "stuck" at about a right angle, and is
very uncomfortable. Also, the little "seat-looking" switch caps are both
missing for the "seat back" part, and both switches have broken off the
plastic part that extends the switch knob (seat back) to the inside of the
switch. I gathered all the tiny little bits and placed them in a ziplock
bag. No way was I going to attempt to repair that mess!

Now that I've gotten prices... Let's see, if it took 2 hours to clean up and
reassemble, that's over $50 per hour. Over twice my normal wages! But I'd
still have the broken plastic part, and missing switch cap. :(

I understand that this is a "Mercedes" switch??? Can I replace it with a
late model "Mercedes" unit from a wrecking yard? Why? you ask? Because RR's
are all but extinct in the wrecking yards (breakers) around Phoenix AZ.

I also played with a jumper wire, trying to find out which hole numbers to
connect to make the seat move... in *any* direction. Never got it to move.
I figured, (at least for the passenger seat) if I got it to a "normal"
position, I wouldn't need the switch. Anyone know which "hole number(s) to
connect??

Thanks, Dave (perplexed) Brown debrown@srp.gov

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

Subject: Re: My first Land Rover 
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 11:28:48 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199509131257.HAA25920@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote:
  
> Also, I'm having trouble with my insurance co., they consider my Rover "high
> risk" and won't renew my policy. Does anyone know a national carrier who
> won't squalk at LRO'S?

	My Rover's been on Liberty-Mutual for the last 5 years w/o a problem.
In fact the insurance was just switched from my parents to me 9 months
ago and there was no problem nor mention of high risk.  Then again, all I 
have is liability coverage in California and I live in the desert.  I can
live with $33/month.

Ben

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake

"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry
 from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere.  He'd drive it up the
 Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..."  --Kevin Archie

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 11:59:29 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: London Parts 

In message <199509131255.HAA25894@butler.uk.stratus.com> Tony Morris writes:
> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> I'm going to London and wonder if anyone has experience buying parts or 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> to get into US? Specific Places to shop?
> Thanks Tony Morris

Get a copy of LRO & look in the adds to see what is nearby.  There is a place 
about 10 miles from Heathrow in the oposit direction as London that I tend to 
hit up.  Its a one person shop specializing in series LRs & militarys.  He 
stocks some parts & has used military parts. 

If you have your stuff shipped to the US you don't have to pay VAT.  There is a 
form you can get and a line to stand in at Heathrow to get your VAT back, but I 
don't hand caryy eoungh stuff out to make it worth the hassle.  I think you can 
hand carry about US$1400 worth of stuff back without having to pay duty.  I've 
declared what I've hand carried back so far with no hastles or duty.

Good Luck.

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 12:21:57 -0700
From: burns@lint.cisco.com (Russell burns)
Subject: Re: '87 RR misc. problems

I have had the same problems, Had to clean the switchs a couple of times.
One of these days I will build a relay network to keep the current out 
of the  $100.00 switches.

Russ
91 R-Rover
94 D-90
>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
>>>I sympathize, but after ignoring non-functioning passenger seat controls
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
>a Q-tip, and a small piece of sand paper to do it.  There really isn't much
>to break, but a lot to get dirty & charred.
>Tony
Russ Burns________________________________________________________________
CiscoSystems

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 12:55:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Rusty D90s in Wisconsin?

On Wed, 13 Sep 1995 JEPurnell@aol.com wrote:

> I got a note last night from someone in NY
> who suggested oiling the frame, in and out, and that it was a messy, ugly
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> be a bit more refined, (oohh, humour...)
> Thanks, 
> John.,

Dear John,
 I agree that 90W gear oil spraying doesn't sound like fun- especially 
lying UNDER the chassis. This gives a whole new, unpleasant meaning to 
the idea of "Oil Wrestling" which I see advertised on the marquee of 
the Deja Vu topless dance club on my way to work each day.

I've ordered some Waxoyl but haven't received it yet. But it is described 
as "secret" rust inhibitors in a sprayable beeswax compound, so it is 
bound to smell better - maybe even good.  It can be ordered with a 
sprayer for first time users.  We'll see.

Maybe the oil leaks that seem to be so common among Series Land Rovers 
(based on discussion in the LRO digest) are actually part of a BUILT IN 
FRAME PRESERVATION ANTI-RUST scheme, designed by Land Rover!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 15:01:34 -0500
From: "John B. Friedman" <johannes@scribes.english.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Discovery oil filter update

Wandering in Walmart today and noted that AC Delco makes a nice Fram  
PH8A clone called the PF 2 which sells for 2.49. I compared this  
filter with both the Fram and the Deutsch neither of which leaked on  
my Disc, and it looked fine. So there is really no reason to buy LR  
filters when there are so many clones around.

While there I noted cases of Castrol GTX 10-40 at 13.08 and a 3.00  
rebate from sending in the box top. I have sent in 3 such tops so far  
and no rebate yet. But the oil is a good value as it appears at Sams  
next door for 15.48. 

I bought a Rubber Maid 16 inch high tub to modify as an oil changing  
and gush resistant Discovery tool and will report after the next  
change. John B. Friedman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 21:04:47 +0100
From: caloccia@land-rover.team.net (Bill Caloccia)
Subject: the fall series on the beeb & the independents

One of the Beeb 'shorts' series is a chap who wanders in the wilderness
and teaches how to get along 'comfortably' as our predecessors did,
without leaving a trace.  Tonight's short was trout steamed with
found herbs, and from starting the fire with a fire stick to cleaning
up the fire and leaving no trace, all in about 5 minutes on the tube.

'A cook on the wild side', evidently running on LWT while I've been away
this summer, features this chap driving a 109 built-up with plywood.

In tonight's issue he's returning from the Scotland and has come into
London to forage in the capital, where he scores a bumper crop of
urban berries, some un-ripe figs (a 'purgative'), and then he sets off
to catch some protein - though after catching a pigeon in trafalgar
square he

He visits a chap who searches the overgrown gardens in outer London for
large  protein, mostly finding 'petit grey' garden snails (consumed by 40%
of the french). The snails are then starved for a couple days and
tossed in boiling water for 10 minutes before being sauteed with herbs,
etc.

Then they were off to fish near the outflow of a power plant, behind
the thames barrier, catching a small eel and a small mirror carp. He then
prepares the carp on the radiator shroud, and mentions 'Manifold Destiny',
and set's off across the capitol to cook dinner.

Then he did a segment on urban forragers, who collect food which is left
behind at the farmer's markets and food left over at the supermarket
skips, and re-conveened the next day to have a picnic with the Battersea
Power Station in the background. He made a summer pudding with the
berries and some bread found in the skip.

Bad news is that it finished with the 109" aka the 'Gastro Wagon' being
towed off...

    Cheers,
        --bill  caloccia@Team.Net   <web: "http://www.senie.com/billc/">

      1  3     dl OD  L           "Land Rover's first, because
      |--|--+  o  |   |            Land Rovers last."
      2  4  R  ul N   H           '72 Range Rover

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 15:05:57 -0500
From: "John B. Friedman" <johannes@scribes.english.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Rover tire sightings

I passed a Pathfinder today with "Dunlop Radial Rover" name on the  
tires. This tire looked a bit narrow and was likely a 15 incher, but  
it might be worth looking into for the pleasure of having such  
markings on one's wheels.

Anyone know if there is a problem in fitting the Michelin 235-75-16  
to the Discovery 235-70-16 wheel. I see that 235-75-16s are far more  
common and better priced than the 235-70-16. Thanks, John Friedman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:17:53 -0700
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: Re: '87 RR misc. problems

>switch. I gathered all the tiny little bits and placed them in a ziplock
>bag. No way was I going to attempt to repair that mess!

Ditto.  I really had intended to fix it myself, but after seeing the number 
of parts, I felt certain that I would spend hours doing it, only to have it 
still not work when I was done.

>I understand that this is a "Mercedes" switch??? Can I replace it with a

I hadn't heard that, but I'm anxious to find out if it's true.  One item of 
evidence supporting the possibility: the switch is stamped "West Germany."

>I also played with a jumper wire, trying to find out which hole numbers to
>connect to make the seat move... in *any* direction. Never got it to move.
>I figured, (at least for the passenger seat) if I got it to a "normal"
>position, I wouldn't need the switch. Anyone know which "hole number(s) to
>connect??

I think I may be able to help you there, as I successfully got the seat into 
an acceptable position using jumper wires.  It takes two wires, because both 
hot and ground must be connected.

>From memory, the plugs that connect to the bottom of the switch look 
something like this:

   +--------+   My drawing may not be accurate, but I show two vertical blades,
   |        |   two round pins, and two horizontal blades.  One of the plugs
   | |    | |   has both round pins, but the other plug has only one round pin.
   | |    | |   If I remember correctly, the round pin present on both plugs
   |        |   is hot, while the round pin present on only one plug is ground.
   |  o  o  |   
   |        |   Be default, none of the blades is connected to anything.  When
   |   ---  |   you move a button, one blade is supposed to go to ground, and
   |        |   another blade is supposed to go to hot.  I was able to      
   |   ---  |   determine the correct blades to hotwire using my multimeter
   |        |   on the working driver's side switch.
   +--------+     
                If you think about it, this behavior makes sense, because it's
the same motor that makes the seat go both forward and backward, the only
difference is the polarity.

In summary, a working hotwire might look something like this in principal:

   +--------+                     +--------+  
   |        |                     |        |  
   | |    | |                     | |    | |  
   | |    | |                    ___|    | |  
   |        |                   /          |  
   |  o  o___                   \____o     |  
   |         \                             |  
   |   ---  | \                   |   ---  |  
   |        | /                   |        |  
   |   ---___/                    |   ---  |  
   |                              |        |  
   +--------+                     +--------+  

I'm sorry I don't have more specifics, but for me the breakthrough was 
realizing that two connections are required, so maybe that will help you.

-Matt

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 16:27:17 EST
Subject: Oil: Rebates & Shelf Life

Have also picked up Castrol and others by the case when a 
good deal is to be had.  Many rebates (takes 6-10 weeks it 
seems) require the register receipt.  So buy 1 brand per 
receipt if two brands have rebates going at the same time.  
Also, many rebates are for limited periods, so don't "get 
around" to mailing it in 3 months later.  It might be too 
late.  Hey, 3 bucks is 3 bucks.

Have experienced dino-oil going bad with age on the shelf.  
Is full synthetic able to sit on the shelf a couple years or 
more without deteriorating?  Want to stock up on Syntec 
50-weight for the Disco, to be used starting with the 28K 
mile service.

Thanks,
Hank

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:45:42 -0700
From: burns@lint.cisco.com (Russell burns)
Subject: Re: '87 RR misc. problems

I am in Mich.
I really have not had too many problems with the  91 RR. The seat problem,
was probably due to my five year old, who thought playing withthe seat was
great. I had a bad throttle pot, which was replaced under Warranty. The
part cost $76. ABS light keeps comming on, due to wire crushed between
frame, and body. Had to fix a brake warning light due to wire under 
bolt. Electric locks hung up, due to massive amounts of Moab dust. 
Cleaning and lube fixed that issue. For the abuse I put it thu, it 
has been a good vehicle. I have to admit that the electrics (lucas)
seem to have a mind of their own sometimes. I haven't spent a lot
of time in a Disco, but If I had the choice I think that is what
I would have gone with in 91. 
I would't hesitate over a Range-Rover if you can get it at a good price.
One of my friends just picked up a 90 RR with 40K miles for 17.5K
He happened to be there when the trade in was taking place, and the
dealer figured $300 profit was good for a quick turnaround.

Good luck in finding a Rover. If I can be of some help, just send E-mail
Russ
:wq
(woops wrong editor)

>Russ,
>Are you local to the San Fransico bay area?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)]
>in a used RR?
>Thanks
>Doug
Russ Burns________________________________________________________________
CiscoSystems

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 14:42:22 -0600 (MDT)
From: Rob Bailey <baileyr@cuug.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: I'm bleeding and can't stop...

I had this exact problem shortly after purchasing my 88". I thought that 
there was air as well, but it turned out to be a combo of air and poorly 
adjusted and cheap brake shoes. I rebuilt all of the cylinders (master 
and slaves because it had been sitting for about 10-12 years) replaced 
the rear shoes with good quality ones and adjusted the fronts right up. I 
still can't bring the fronts to a lock with the adjuster, but I plan on 
replacing the front 10" with 109 11" brakes so I don't want to purchase 
new 10" shoes for the front. I also put in a 109 1" bore master and now 
the brakes work the first time, everytime! 

It may be obvious, but with mine the poorly adjusted shoes made a huge 
difference in the pedal. It was the main problem after all the air was 
removed from the system, as the pedal went from needing 2-3 pumps to 1.

Hope it helps...
Rob

>I know that we've probably been over this one thousands of times but....
>Mabel's (1960 88") brake pedal is in the pump once mode right now (i.e.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>brake mode. I think I have tried everything short of winching it up into a
>tree. Is there still air in there or what??? How can I get it out?

------------------------------

From: Robert Watson (CNA) <a-robw@microsoft.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 13:36:41 TZ
Subject: RE: Rover tire sightings

Kelly used to make (and may still) a tire called the "Land Rover". I 
just called my local Discount Tire, and they aren't sure if they are 
still in production. Also, they didn't have any listed in the 235/70R16 
size. (though they did show some in the 235/85R16). They are more open 
tread design (a la mud tire) but not quite like a Mud Digger and are studdable.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 19:51:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gregory Brown <brow7767@mstr.hgc.edu>
Subject: Bearings

Hello all, it has been a while since I have written.  Well I am going to 
do some work to reduce leaks (ha ha) and asure solid running gear.  I 
have a used good condition rear axle housing and I am rebuilding the 
swival balls.  Well enough desciption.  Does anyone have the aftermarket 
part numbers for the front and rear bearings for a Series IIa 88.

Best Regards

Greg Brown
'71 Series IIA
(Attn Ben: serial # 24440956 G Mfg 6/70 Sollihull)
Connecticut, USA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 17:05:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John C. White III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Rusty D90s in Wisconsin?

No, but I lived in Germany for eight years.  Over there bratwursts, the 
entire category of wursts, for that matter, are a sacrament.  You don't 
give the Germans a bad wurst and get away with it.  I'm broadminded 
though.  If I ever get to Wisconsin, I'll try a smoked Sheboygan.

Prost!
John
Native Bavarian

On Wed, 13 Sep 1995 Sanna@aol.com wrote:

> >You wrote... >The local diet of beer, bratwurst (if your not
> from WI you've never had a real one)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> Sheboygan brat.
> Tony

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 13 Sep 95 13:51:30 EDT
Subject: When IS Stowe, anyway?

Deities willing, I may be able to make Stowe. ANy ideas as to when it is? -ajr

    Apologies to the real-world crowd ...

------------------------------

From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 20:34:58 -0400
Subject: Rebuild project

Just an update:
I submitted the question last week concerning the small dents in my new
galvinized frame.  I appreciate all the points of view offered.  After going
over the frame with the mechanic helping me with this project and with fellow
LR owner Chris Stevens, I discussed the issue with Steve Springer of Atlantic
British and came to what I feel is a very fair and equitable solution.  I
must emphasize strongly that AB was VERY receptive to my concerns and
would've willingly accepted, (split infinitives are now allowed), return of
the frame.  They generously compensated me for the minor damage and I don't
forsee any major problems with the chassis during restoration.

Chris came over on the two days  of the project and helped me remove the
majority of the body work and the rear axle.  During the process, we
discovered the possible cause of the some of the squeaks in the body work.
 We found a dehydrated, thoroughly stuck mouse, with its head and upper body
sticking out of one of the crossmembers while the lower body was trapped
within the crossmember.  Apparently a previous owner had repaired a rusted
through hole with body filler (poor form) and when a new hole developed, the
mouse felt it had discovered a nifty new home.  I am sending a picture of
this to LROI and hope to see it in print.

The project is involving the Boring community.  Our farrier stopped up to
look at the project and ended up staying for a couple of hours, helping me
remove both wings.  

At day five, all body work is removed the rear axle cleaned, painted and on
the new chassis and the front axle is nearly out.  In the next couple of
days/weeks I'm hoping to disconnect and dissemble the bulkhead and line up
some friends to perform the engine/transmission transplantation from the
donor frame the eager recipient.  After preliminary testing it seems to be a
good match and rejection is not anticipated.

To those planning this sort of restoration I would strongly recommend an
angle grinder, new sharp drill bits, a six sided socket set, visegrips and
copious amounts of liquid wrench.  The technique of drilling out bolts is
invaluable, the visegrip is always the right sized wrench, and when all else
fails grind it off. (But practice first, aluminium body work is not very
forgiving.)

Hoping to be on the road soon...

Nate Dunsmore
Rocking Horse Farm
Boring, MD  USA
NADdMD@aol.com
(410)429-4964

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 10:13:59 +0930
From: Tiffany Downing <tiffanyd@tafe.sa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Rover tire sightings

At 03:05 PM 13/09/95 -0500, John Friedman wrote:
>I passed a Pathfinder today with "Dunlop Radial Rover" name on the  
>tires. This tire looked a bit narrow and was likely a 15 incher, but  
>it might be worth looking into for the pleasure of having such  
>markings on one's wheels.

Over here in OZ we have a tyre made by McLeod called the Land Rover and
believe it or not, had Land Rover blazened on the tyre for all to see.  Have
you ever seen a "Jeep" tyre!!!!  :-)

Tiffany Downing

********************************************
Co-ordinator, International Student Programs
TAFE South Australia, AUSTRALIA
Phone:   (61 8) 226 3202
Fax:     (61 8) 226 3655
E-Mail:  tiffanyd@tafe.sa.edu.au
********************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 17:40:21 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Bearings

 Greg Brown <brow7767@mstr.hgc.edu> writes:
 
>Hello all, it has been a while since I have written.  Well I am going to 
 do some work to reduce leaks (ha ha) and asure solid running gear.  I 
 have a used good condition rear axle housing and I am rebuilding the 
 swival balls.  Well enough desciption.  Does anyone have the aftermarket 
 part numbers for the front and rear bearings for a Series IIa 88.

 Mike Hoskins put together a short list of US aftermarket parts which
 are on my Rover page at  http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html

 Let us know if these are correct or not.  Thanks,

 Michael Carradine, Architect                          Ph/Fax 510-988-0900
 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA    <cs@crl.com>
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: IIa suffix b??
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 11:08:54 +0930 (CST)

Peter asks:>  
> Does anyone know what the "b" suffix on the serial number of my series '64
> IIA 88"  means? 

The following is stolen from one of the web sites, hope it helps.
cheers
-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

An attempt to date Series 2A models by changes in suffix letters relative to
each other.

The dates are the issue dates of the Service Newsletter announcing the
change!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

DATE  CHASS ENG GEAR AXLE ITEM CHANGE

 3/63 B     D   B    A    SHORT OIL FILT [4cyl], CUP PLUG INLET MAN[Diesel],
                          SHAPE EXHAUST MANIFOLD [Diesel],THERMOSTAT[PETROL],
                          LARGE UNI JOINT, 9/16 SHACKLE PINS, LINKAGE CLIP
                          ACCELERATOR,
                          LAMPS NO BEZEL ETC, 3/8 STEERING BOX FIXINGS, TOP
                          STEERING BOX BRACKET
 9/63 B     D   C    A    GB RATIOS
12/63                     25D4 DISTRIBUTOR ENG 25159746 PETROL 4
 1/64 B     D   C    A    CAST IRON REAR BEARING HOUSING [all], LIGHT SWITCH,
                          KEY SWITCH, BALLAST RESISTOR 2BA[DIESEL],
                          LOCKER LID TURNBUCKLE SEMI-CIRCULAR, APRON PANEL
                          CURVED
 1/64 B     D             ENGINE FOOT REINFORCED ENG 25152571 , 27110202 4
                          CYL
 2/64 B     D   B    A    ?? STRENGTHENED TIE ROD BRACKET BELL HOUSING GB
                          25170529B
 3/64 B     D   C    B    STRENGTHENED AXLES, STEERING RELAY FILLER DELETED
 9/64 B     D   C    B    251 SERIES OF GB NOS USED UP GOTO 2520001C
 2/65 B     F   C    B    ONE PIECE OIL LEVEL ROD, 251 SERIES ENG NOS USED UP
                          GO TO 25200001F, WELDED BONNET STRIKER
 6/65 B     G   C    B    BLADE TYPE DISTRIBUTOR DRIVE SHAFT PETROL 4

------------------------------

Date: 13 Sep 95 21:47:55 EDT
From: "Lee S. Underwood" <71603.3051@compuserve.com>
Subject: sub

index digest

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 21:00:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Canvas Top Treatment

I went to our local canvas tent manufacturer and he sold me a canvas 
waterproofing liquid that was clear but when I put it on it darkened the 
canvas a bit.  It went from faded grey to military Kaki in color and it 
got a lot stiffer.  I put in new persplex windows.  This time the 
material was again the type used in tents which is a lot softer and 
easier to roll and doesn't crack.  I put new ties on and used seam 
binding for the edges plus some rivets for blue jeans and voila-a new 
top.  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

From: DieselBobI@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 22:10:56 -0400
Subject: wiring harness-hammerite paint

if your are in need of a wiring harness, give british wiring a call, phone
708-481-9050. they are located in olympia field, illinois. cost is around
220.00. if you are looking for hammerite paint, you can find in small 8 oz.
cans at a Big Lots store, costs is .99. comes in over 20 different colors.
the silver grey is what you want for your galvanizing. also you can get spray
cans of hammerite in 8 colors. they are 12.oz. and silver gray is available.
phone 800-557-3277. ask for item 3772z { as in zebra}. cost is 6.95- 2 or
more 6.50 plus 3.50 shipping

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 22:28:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Solex carb

I rebuilt my Solex today and it idles very well but it stumbles under 
load.  I suspect the little pipe in the centre is plugged and there isn't 
enough gas getting to the engine.  I can't seem to remove the little pipe 
from the centre even though the workshop manual says it comes out after 
you remove the screw.  Does anyone have a trick for getting the little 
pipe out?   Or any other ideas on why it won't feed.  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

From: JDolan2109@aol.com
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 00:18:32 -0400
Subject: Tranny Banter

Well, what appeared to be the front diff problem wasn't the diff. One of the
hubs (the one that 'weeps') was severely gunked up inside and had possibly a
bad (weak) spring, which prevented proper engagement. So, some tinkering, and
the front end seems to be OK. Thank goodness! Should get some misc. seals and
lockers (the one securing the clutch sleeve for the OD unit was found to be
broken), and reassembly should be complete. If all goes well and time
permits, I'll add a rubber boot to the rear prop. shaft.
See 'ya on the old road...
Jim  '61 88" SW / OD, 1 Bbl weber & 16's   (econobox?)
LR....quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised! 
 

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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