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From: "Seymour, Gareth" <GSeymour@mp.sihe.ac.uk>
Subject: Gorc homepage
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 95 09:23:00 PDT

The new, still underconstruction, Glamorgan off road club home page is 
located at...

http://theo.sihe.ac.uk/~bird/Home.html

Any visitors welcome

Gareth

------------------------------

From: Tom Stevenson <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: 1-ton shackles
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 09:53:09 +0100 (BST)

> Tom,
> Couldn't you avoid this by welding on front spring brackets of the 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> But, it seems it would be crazy to put 1-ton springs on an 88 unless you 
> were always hauling around a ton or more of stone.
I would think that extended front hangers would solve the problem, but
it seems like a lot of effort!
I put extended shackles on the rear springs with LWB dual rate springs,
which have a lower (initial) rate than SWB rear springs in an attempt (fairly
successful) to improve the ride. The longer shackles were used to
restore the clearance between the axle and the bump stops.
Cheers!

-- 
Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
Tel:(01475) 530581  Fax:(01475) 530601

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Aug 1995 13:30:09 +0100
From: helmuth.guss@balu.kfunigraz.ac.at (Helmuth Guss)
Subject: help on winches ?

Does anybody knew what the pulling rate in ...lb/kg means ?
Is there a standardized methode to test the pulling rate of a winch?
How much can a winch of ...lb rate lift vertical?
I find this declarations a little bit confusing.
 thank everybody for help
Helmuth Guss
Hauptstr.18
8435 Wagna
Austria

------------------------------

From: ScottFugate_Group8@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 95 8:40:00 EDT
Subject: RE: Heavy Duty Springs

Dave Brown asks bout 1 ton(ne) springs on a Series...

I have a friend in Florida who put a set of "heavy duty' springs on his IIA.  
I think he got them from Atlantic British.  These had 13 vice 11 leaves, I 
think.  I assume these are the same as from a 1 ton(ne) (or is it a 109?).  
Anyway, when he put the truck on the ground, he couldn't hook up his shocks 
because of the much-increased camber.  Eventually the springs did settle a 
bit, and the shocks did connect, but just barely.  He also related that the 
truck rode like the axle was connected directly to the frame.  Dave, mail me 
privately if you'd like to get in touch with this guy.

FWIW, I think that big tires, lifts, fancy wide wheels, etc. look a bit out of 
place on a LR.  I'd prefer to leave that stuff to the drivers of Jap mini 
trucks.  My opinion, no charge.

Scott Fugate
1970 IIA 88
1989 RR

[Buffer line for the real-time folks]

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Thu, 3 Aug 1995 08:00:50 GMT -0600
Subject:       Re: help on winches ?

Helmuth Guss asks:
> Does anybody knew what the pulling rate in ...lb/kg means ?
> Is there a standardized methode to test the pulling rate of a winch?
> How much can a winch of ...lb rate lift vertical?
Snip

The pulling rate (if you mean as in an 8000# winch) is what the winch 
will lift with a single line pull. At least usually. Some cheaper 
winches give the double line pull to make them seem stronger than 
they are. Doulbling the line with a snatch block (pulley) will double 
the pull and halve the speed. On a hard flat surface, assuming you had 
your vehicle anchored, you could pull more than an 8000# rolling 
load with an 8000# winch in single line mode. In a mud hole you may 
only be able to pull a 4000# load (or less). It all depends on how badly you're 
mired. The worse you are stuck, the less actual weight you can pull.
The "rate" is actually measured in feet/minute, or meters/minute I 
guess, the capacity is the pound or kilogram rating.
There are machines to measure the capacity, but they are specialized. 
Some offroad mags have used them to measure winch stall loads (the 
load it takes to stop the winch) and cable snapping loads. A good 
winch should stall (or snap a shear pin)  before a cable in good 
repair will snap. A snapping cable is as effective as a broadsword in removing 
appendages.
A good habit to get into is to place a sand bag or some like object 
on the cable when you're winching, it will slow the cable a little if 
it snaps. Also piaint the last 5-10 feet near the hook some bright 
color so that when you are running the cable back on you're alerted 
that the end is near so you don't wrap your arm around the drum. This 
might sound dumb, but I've seen people's reflexes cause them to hang 
on and try to stop the cable when the end suddenly appears. You 
can't.
Hope this helps.
Tom

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: 03 Aug 95 09:35:44 EDT
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: advertising ettiquette for this list?

>> Mike Sez:  I don't think most people object to an individual posting an item
for sale.

I could not agree more.  Though I certainly don't want this list to turn into a
classified, I must admit to having benefitted tremendously by purchasing several
items from list members.

Perhaps we can put together a quick Advertising etiquette guideline to put in
the FAQ?

Here is what I might propose as a start:

-- Please, no dealers or 'high volume' ad contributers.  
-- Please limit your ads to items of interest to the Land Rover community. 
-- Please include:  description, location, price, etc ... be complete and
*honest* in your       description (if we can't be honest to each other here,
who can we trust?)
-- Please (responders) send notes back via e-mail, not posted to the list
-- Please do not post "every day" until an item is sold.  If it does not get
snapped up with one    posting, wait a week or so before trying again.  If it
does not sell a second time, try       Hemmings, LRO, etc.

These are just some thoughts from a person who welcomes ads from my fellow LR
enthusiasts... perhaps there are some other ideas or suggestions that we can add
to it before the Major decides whether something like this is ok for the FAQ.
Of course, if the sentiment on the list is to make ads verboten... I'll live
with that, too.  Just my $0.02

Cheers, 

R. P.Reid

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 06:55:36 -0700
From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Land Rover Model Cars

Check out Lloyd Alison's web page on the subject.  My link on my web page 
isn't working, but you can get from my page to the RoverWeb and thence to 
Lloyd's.  My page is at http://www.crl.com/~sinasoh/

Hope this helps!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Roger                         "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                                that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: 03 Aug 95 10:58:22 EDT
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Advertising on the List?

>> Mike Sez:  I don't think most people object to an individual posting an item
for sale.

I could not agree more.  Though I certainly don't want this list to turn into a
classified, I must admit to having benefitted tremendously by purchasing several
items from list members.

Perhaps we can put together a quick Advertising etiquette guideline to put in
the FAQ?

Here is what I might propose as a start:

- -- Please, no dealers or 'high volume' ad contributers.  
- -- Please limit your ads to items of interest to the Land Rover community. 
- -- Please include:  description, location, price, etc ... be complete and
*honest* in your       description (if we can't be honest to each other here,
who can we trust?)
- -- Please (responders) send notes back via e-mail, not posted to the list
- -- Please do not post "every day" until an item is sold.  If it does not get
snapped up with one    posting, wait a week or so before trying again.  If it
does not sell a second time, try       Hemmings, LRO, etc.

These are just some thoughts from a person who welcomes ads from my fellow LR
enthusiasts... perhaps there are some other ideas or suggestions that we can add
to it before the Major decides whether something like this is ok for the FAQ.
Of course, if the sentiment on the list is to make ads verboten... I'll live
with that, too.  Just my $0.02

Cheers, 

R. P.Reid

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Aug 95 07:48:18 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Springs response... conclusions.

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Springs response... conclusions.
Thanks to all who responded. Several have responded, and I find that the
1-ton(ne) springs OR the front springs from a 109 would be too heavy, and
the ride and articulation would be unsatisfactory. I came to the same
conclusion as your responses, that with the weight of the winch, the
diesel springs for the 88 would be best.

Also, what is recommended is using the same springs for left and right
side. I think I'll order the "drivers" side springs, for that added
support.

Thanks again for the responses, I LOVE this list!! Some day, I'll be
able to make significant contributions with advice.

Dave (Taylor like, except I'm $pending $$$) Brown.

P.S. This may be something for the FAQ? Anyone want to "spring" into action?

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

From: ScottFugate_Group8@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 95 11:36:51 EDT
Subject: American Source for Flaring Tool?

Gang,

Anybody out there have any technical information on the type of flare used on 
Series IIA - III metal brake lines?  Are these the same flares standard in 
U.S.?  In the May or June LRO magazine, it shows a flaring tool being use in a 
restoration, and cautions that there are male flares and female flares. I 
noticed that the cylinders have a seat that mates with a female flare, for 
instance.  Does anybody know what the correct seating angle is?   

I need to get a tool for modifying a set of copper brake pipes I have in hand. 
The pipes were ordered from John Craddock for my 1970 IIA, specifying a dual 
line system.  Evidently, in England dual line systems did not appear until 
late in the Series III run, when the change over to metrics had begun.  On the 
pipe set I received, the connections to the brake cylinders are the correct 
imperial size, but the balance of the connections are metric.  They are 
distinguished by different colors of dust covers on the connectors.  I'm sorry 
to say that this distinction was lost on me until I had experienced a great 
deal of consternation from connections that wouldn't fit up. I doubt that 
Craddock would take the set back back now, as a couple of the lines are bent 
to hell and the threads on one end are stripped.   Anyway, what I'd like to do 
is cut all the offending metric connectors off and replace with good old 3/8 - 
24 connectors.  Problem is I don't have a flaring tool or a source for the 
brass connections.  Can anybody help? 

Scott Fugate
1970 IIA
1989 RR

Extra line

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 95 08:57 MST
From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II)
Subject: [TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU: Re: Exhaust manifold]

James Howard wrote:

> Today, I found the exhaust leak in my petrol SIII four banger.  The
> manifold has a crack in it. 

I have found the SIII manifolds prone to cracking for three reasons; 
that's the way they are; using the late type gaskets (two hole metal 
exhaust only as opposed to the older fiber that span both manifolds)  
and not using a torque wrench on the fasteners.

Snip
> this seems like a good time to upgrade to a header.
I have one so here goes:
> I read somewhere that a less restrictive muffler will do more for   
performance than a header. 

Maybe, but you're not going to get alot out of a 2.25 anyway

>Will a header crack?

Mine hasn't (Clifford Reasearch, the only one I know of in the US for 
LR, sold by ABP, cheaper elsewhere I'm sure), *but*, they will rust 
through and they give off a *lot* of heat. You should get it coated to 
prevent rusting and reduce the heat output some. Jet Hot Coating 
charges $100-150 to aluminize it (I think that's the process) and 
they give a life time warranty. Good thing too, as I had mine done 
and it's starting to pit. I also wraped mine in header wrap to keep 
it from frying my starter and alternator.
You can't connect to your intake so, depending on where you live, you 
may have problem's with carb icing in the winter, although I haven't 
in VT or WI (I'm using the Weber 4bbl with a different manifold 
anyway). You have to cut your front pipe and weld it to a cone 
shaped adapter, provided. You loose a little groound clearence under 
the exhaust, but it's minimal.

>Is it louder?

A header isn't, a less restrictive muffler probably would be.

The moral of all this? I would stick to a LR manifold, use the old 
style gasket, torque the bolts to spec (you'll have to use a crowfoot 
wrench on some and a u-joint on others). And pray. Use  
NeverSeeze on both sides of the gaskets.
Why do I have one? I bought it way back when. When I thought to get 
better performance. I use it now because of my intake manifold. I 
never had luck with blocking off the upper opening on the stock 
manifold, I tried brazeing, welding & bolting. A bolted-on plate 
worked the best, but the clearence isn't enough to put on a very 
thick one so it didn't last. I gave up and went back to the header.
Good luck.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Aug 1995 09:04:29 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: advertising ettiquette?

 R. Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> writes:

>Here is what I might propose as a start:
-- Please, no dealers or 'high volume' ad contributers.  
-- Please limit your ads to items of interest to the Land Rover community. 
-- Please include:  description, location, price, etc ... be complete and
   *honest* in your description (if we can't be honest to each other here,
   who can we trust?)
-- Please (responders) send notes back via e-mail, not posted to the list
-- Please do not post "every day" until an item is sold.  If it does not get
   snapped up with one    posting, wait a week or so before trying again.
   If it does not sell a second time, try Hemmings, LRO, etc.

 Especially since this is an international list, indicate the city and
 country where the item is located, and ALWAYS indicate price and currency.
 Without this information, there will just be a lot of frustrating email.

 Michael Carradine, Architect                                 <cs@crl.com>
 Carradine Studios, PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA    Ph/Fax 510-988-0900
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date:  3 Aug 95  9:23:31 EDT
Subject: Holley 2-barrel on a 2.25?

In my quest for Rover parts I have been trying to locate a used
Pinto Weber carburetor. These are as scarce as hen's teeth...
or so it seems.

Has anyone ever attempted to use the alternate Holley 2-barrel that
was fitted to the same Pinto engine that took the Weber? These seem to be
more in supply than the other unit.

Just a thought....I may try this one myself if I can get a sed one cheaply
enough. -ajr

------------------------------

From: a-robw@microsoft.com
Subject: RE: help on winches ?
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 95 07:39:00 PDT

Right after I bought a Ramsey winch, I called the manufacturer to get this 
very information. They informed me that they have a test stand that measures 
the pull against a dynomometer under ideal (i.e. laboratory) conditions. 
Also, the published ratings are ALWAYs on the 1st layer of cable on the 
drum. In the manual that came with the winch, they also showed the ratings 
for each subsequent layer of cable as it spooled . Some of the lower 
capacity electric winch companies will list how they can pull an XXX lb 
ROLLING LOAD because the dead-lift capacity is so pathetic. If you've ever 
pushed your car, you can say you're capable of pushing a 3000 lb rolling 
load!

In "real-life" however, I'd be impressed if your electric winch could do 80% 
of its advertised capability. On a vehicle, unless you've really wired it to 
power the winch (e.g. with dual MONSTER batteries, hi-output  alternator, 
LARGE (and short) cables to the winch for both + and - leads , etc.) you'll 
be losing so much through cable resistence (which adds up under a 400amp 
load), battery voltage drop (because the alternator can't put out 400 amps) 
to ever see the rated pull. I've talked to some "serious" off-road types who 
DID wire their truck for the winch (as described above) and measured only 
6000 lbs pull using a cable tensiometer from their 8000 lb. winch.

I suspect that's one reason the manufacturer's suggest you get a winch 
capable of 1.5 times your vehicles gross weight. I think the best option is 
to have lots of cable and a snatch block for those really stuck trucks.
 ----------
From: LRO-Owner
Subject: help on winches ?
Date: Thursday, 03 August, 1995 13:30

Does anybody knew what the pulling rate in ...lb/kg means ?
>> depends on the manufacturer, call their technical support for details
Is there a standardized methode to test the pulling rate of a winch?
>> no
How much can a winch of ...lb rate lift vertical?
>> see above
I find this declarations a little bit confusing.
>> isn't that the goal of advertising? :-)
>> you really need to read the FINE print
 thank everybody for help
Helmuth Guss
Hauptstr.18
8435 Wagna
Austria

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 11:02:29 -0700
From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool)
Subject: Whither side-specific springs

I need a little advice:

I am about to replace the rear springs on my 1973 Series III 88" hardtop
Land-Rover (they're, like, flat, man).  I have always wondered about the
specific purpose of the side specific springs on Land-Rovers.  I understand
that the difference is in how arched they are but am not sure about that.
Now a Land-Rover is presumably heavier on the right side, due to the fact
that the drivetrain runs along that side and the fuel tank is also along
that side.  So is the stronger (more arched) spring the right one as one
would suppose considering this weight difference?  Or is is the left one,
considering that that would be the low side of the road (due to crowning of
the roads) in the British Isles and other countries where driving is on the
left?  In the first case, the need for the side-specific springs would be
greater in the US due to the double whammy of the right-side weight bias'
coincidence with the low side of the road's being also on the right.  In the
latter case, it would seem that the springs should be reversed or else both
sides should have the same (stronger-side) springs.  

Over the years, I've seen Land-Rovers that sag to one side or the other.  It
seems to me that most (but not all) sagged to the right.  That would
probably suggest that the more strongly arched spring (if that is really the
difference) should be on the right.

I remember seeing a message about this the other day and thought I had saved
it but now can't find it.  So I'll appreciate any sage advice offered by
those of you who've figured this out conclusively(?).

TIA,

P.S.  To those on the main LRO list I appologize if this has been amply
discussed in the last few days as I have not had time to read the digest for
about a week due to the Paradise Lost trip (awesome!!).

Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA
Several old Land-Rovers and other semi-collectible vehicles
<gpool@pacific.pacific.net> (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 11:30:44 -0700
From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool)
Subject: Re: Whither side-specific springs

Sure enough, I had no more than posted my question about the side-specific
springs than I found a very good discussion in yesterdays digest by Tony
Bonanno (I appologize again for not reading all the digests first).  

Tony concludes that using the driver's side spring on both sides is best
(and apparently RN agrees).  It sounds like it does make the Land-Rover sit
level--at first.  But I'm not convinced that this solution will be correct
over the life of the springs.  The driver's weight is minor (even my 230
lbs.) compared with the fuel tank, diffs, driveshafts, tranfer case, and
battery all offset to the right.

Again, what do you think?

Thanks some more,

Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA
Several old Land-Rovers and other semi-collectible vehicles
<gpool@pacific.pacific.net> (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 95 11:33:53 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman"  <twakeman@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Holley 2-barrel on a 2.25?

In message <199508031703.MAA09524@butler.uk.stratus.com> Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 
writes:
 
> In my quest for Rover parts I have been trying to locate a used
> Pinto Weber carburetor. These are as scarce as hen's teeth...
> or so it seems.
; 
> Has anyone ever attempted to use the alternate Holley 2-barrel that
; was fitted to the same Pinto engine that took the Weber? These seem to be
> more in supply than the other unit.
;
Most people I have talked to have not been overly happy going to a two barrel on
a 2.25L engine.  With a Pinto engine, you would need to play around with all the
fuel & air jetting.  You would be better off getting a carb specifically set up 
for the Land Rover engine.  Also one that is not probably already worn out.  You
would never get a worn out carb to work properly.

I would recommend a refurbished Zenith or Solex.  If you have a right hand drive
car, I still think a pair of 3/4 inch SUs on a TR3 intake manifold would do the 
trick very nicely, increasing power and petrol milage.  The TR3 intake manifold 
lines up with the Land Rover's intake ports.  The TR3's ex-tractor engine (with 
87mm pistons) is about the same size as the LR engine, puts out more power and 
has much better milage.  Hmm thats a thought, I wonder if anyone makes a 
belhousing adaptor to fit the TR2 through 4A engine to a Land Rover bellhousing.
The TR3's engine is high torque and it is very rugged like a tractor engine 
should be.

Who needs a Rover modified Buick engine when you could add a Fergason tractor 
engine?

TeriAnn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 19:54:57 -0600 (CST)
From: "Soren Vels Christensen" <velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: RE: Advertising on the List?

Hi

Why not a seperate mailing list working like the lro-digest, -except it
could be published weekly or fortnightly depending on the volume of
classified ads.

Or even better:

     forsale@host.domain and
     wanted@host.domain.

This would ofcourse mean extra work (and perhaps hardware) for either Bill
or anyone else ready, willing and able to undertake this sort of task.

A split digest could even reside on different machines, being maintained
by different people.

Just a thought.

It might be worth to mention that i have a private VT320 account by modem.
Otherwise i wouldn't suggest things like these ;-)

cheers
sv/aurens

[waste]

------------------------------

Subject: Re: help on winches ? 
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 1995 12:28:52 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

a-robw@microsoft.com wrote:

[why 8000# stall winches stall before 8000# deleted]
  
> I suspect that's one reason the manufacturer's suggest you get a winch 
> capable of 1.5 times your vehicles gross weight. 

	The rule of thumb is 2.5 times the vehicle gross weight.  This is
partially because of electric contraints that were menioned.  The other reason
is that when you have a 3000lb vehicle well and truely bogged down, the force
needed to extract the vehicle will be much more than the vehicle weight.

-Benjamin Smith
----------------
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake
 bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

[chaff for Majordomo]

------------------------------

From: srbrown@sair020.energylan.sandia.gov
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:39:59 -0600
Subject: Ivory Soap in your toolbox??

Here's a little curiosity, that would be fun to discuss.

A friend of mine recently told my wife that since I drive a 32+ year
old Landrover that I should carry a bar of Ivory soap in my toolbox.
Here's why:

Recently on a long camping trip in the northern New Mexico desert (in
a beat up chevy van) my friend and family were driving in a
construction zone and somehow managed to puncture their fuel tank with
a piece of gravel or other debris. Gasoline started pouring out on the
road like crazy. They pulled over (miles from nowhere) wondering what
to do. A local friendly rancher or somebody stopped, evaluated the
problem and quickly came up with a solution. He asked for a bar of
Ivory soap from their camping gear, broke off a piece, got it wet and
soggy with canteen water and plugged up the hole in the tank. Much to
everyone's amazement it held, stopped the leak, and allowed them to
drive 50 miles or so to a town with a more permanant solution.

It seems that I've heard something about this somewhere before.
Does it work? What is the physics/chemistry of this?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 /==============\
 | `63  |  IIa  |          Stephen Brown
 |______|_______| 	   Geomechanics Department, MS-0751
 /___/^^^^^^\___\9	   Sandia National Laboratories
 |oo|(@)##(@)|oo|	   Albuquerque, New Mexico 87185
 |  | [####] |  |
 ======%%%%======	   email: srbrown@sandia.gov
 {*}={&&}====={*}
 {*}          {*}          RockNet: http://sair019.energylan.sandia.gov:70
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

From: a-robw@microsoft.com
Subject: Discovery Gift pack goodies
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 95 10:28:00 PDT

I was rummaging through the gift pack that came with my new Disco and 
noticed that the "imported" Salmon Pate that came with my English Rover is 
all the way from Marysville, WA (a small town about 30 miles north of my 
house in Seattle, Washington). Talk about taking the long way! (no ants on 
it, though. :-)

 -- Bob Watson
95 Disco (750 miles and counting)

------------------------------

Date: Thu,  3 Aug 95 19:56:48 PDT
From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
Subject: Antipodean Auxiliary Tanks

On page 22 of the June issue of LRO there are two pictures of Brian Price's 
(Australia) '75 SIII 88".  This clearly shows two fuel tank fillers: one in 
the normal right hand position and one in the same position on the left 
hand.  According to the text this was fitted from new.

All the auxiliary tanks that I have seen have been filled from under the 
left hand (passenger in UK) seat, as per the military spec and series Is.
The auxiliary tanks listed in the L/R optional parts catalogue are the same.

Does anyone know if the arrangement on Brian's Rover was generally available 
in Australia, or is it a one off? 
-------------------------------------
Tony Chapman             E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
HAWTEC                   Tel:    01905 723200
Haswell House            Fax:    01905 613338 
St. Nicholas Street      Mobile: 0973 316835
Worcester
WR1 1UW

Date: 08/03/95
Time: 19:56:48

This message was sent by Chameleon 
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu,  3 Aug 95 19:51:52 PDT
From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
Subject: RE: Whither side-specific springs 

As I indicated recently in a post concerning heavy duty springs, the L/R 
parts book refers to "drivers" and "passengers" side springs.  This implies 
that the springs are fitted according to whether the vehicle is left or 
right hand drive.  This tends to discount the theory that the springs are 
fitted to compensate for the weight of the transmission etc. being offset to 
the right.

Interestingly, some of the early prototypes had a central driving position.  
I wonder how their springs were set?
-------------------------------------
Tony Chapman             E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
HAWTEC                   Tel:    01905 723200
Haswell House            Fax:    01905 613338 
St. Nicholas Street      Mobile: 0973 316835
Worcester
WR1 1UW

Date: 08/03/95
Time: 19:51:53

This message was sent by Chameleon 
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: Ivory Soap in your toolbox??
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 95 17:37:10 EDT

Ah, the ol' Ivory soap trick:

> It seems that I've heard something about this somewhere before.

Was a Down-Under trick, wasn't it?

> Does it work? What is the physics/chemistry of this?

Goopy-smeggy things fill holes.  Goopy-smeggy things that don't
dissolve in gasoline won't dissolve in gasoline.

rd/nigel

(who once fixed a leaking canoe with tree sap and a wad of crunched
up vegitation 'cause soap wouldn't have worked)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 15:41:29 -0700
From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: help on winches ?

>  The other reason
> is that when you have a 3000lb vehicle well and truely bogged down, the force
> needed to extract the vehicle will be much more than the vehicle weight.
> -Benjamin Smith

   
  The local classic example is the time that Michael Green, of West Coast
British, went to Reno and came back with a helicopter to lift his Rover
from the mud of the Black Rock "Desert."

R, bg

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 19:05:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magnet <magnet@io.org>
Subject: LR on the Net

Tony Morris wonders whether anyone officially connected with Land Rover 
subscribes to this mailing list.

I can't answer that, but about a month ago I had an opportunity to chat 
with Alan Manessy, Managing Director of Land Rover Canada.  In the course 
of a very interesting conversation, I mentioned that he ought to have one 
of his marketing or customer support people on this list.  Alan seemed 
receptive to the idea, and I gave him the info on how to subscribe -- 
don't know whether any action was taken, though.

In all my dealings with LRC I've found them to be a very helpful bunch, 
and enthusiastic about the cars they sell.  WRT to the discontinuing of 
the Defender in Canada, two factors were cited: a new lot of emission 
regulations (actually, self-diagnostics, if I remember correctly) for 
1996, and primarily the fact that they simply do not sell enough of them 
in Canada to warrant keeping them in stock.  There was some mention of 
possibly bringing them in again for 1997.

                                       Cheers, 
                                              -- Bill

'59 Rover 90 ------ '87 Rover 825i -------- '93 Range Rover LWB

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Bill Daddis -- Aurora, Ontario, Canada -- magnet@io.org
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Aug 1995 17:49:04 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: LR on the Net

>Tony Morris wonders whether anyone officially connected with Land Rover 
>subscribes to this mailing list.

 Probably.  I'm wondering when Land Rover will have a WWW page, after
 all, Mercedes is already on at http://www.daimler-benz.com/
 (not much, but a start...nice graphics too!)

 Michael Carradine, Architect                                 <cs@crl.com>
 Carradine Studios, PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA    Ph/Fax 510-988-0900
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 11:07:53 +1000
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: manifolds, springs, clubs

Cracking exhaust manifolds: from the mists of time I seem to recall
   something funny about not tightening the fixing bolts over tight,
   to allow the thing to expand / contract relative to the head ???
   else you crack the manifold -  does this ring any bells or is it
   an hallucination?
   Are there not different types of gasket arrangement and using the
   wrong one for your manifold also leads to cracking.

springs - I put LWB StnWgn springs on a SWB rear once.
   They had relatively soft LWB springs with a great big helper leaf,
   sort of progressive rate.  The result was a bit skitish when unladen
   but just right with a couple of jerry cans and other junk on board.

Club lists: do any of the wwweb-ers (not webbers) think it worthwhile
   doing something "consistent" with online lists of L-R clubs?
   I have some misc' information in
   http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/Clubs/index.html
   and it seems to me that other web pages have similar odd bits
   of information.  This is bad from a computing point of view:
   overlapping, inconsistent views of the same underlying data.
   Since club details and esp' addresses may change, the lists
   must all be out of date to some extent.
   It would make much more sense to have one comprehensive list, as up
   to date as possible. It could then be linked to, or mirrored where ever.

Lloyd

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Antipodean Auxiliary Tanks
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 11:02:39 +0930 (CST)

> On page 22 of the June issue of LRO there are two pictures of Brian Price's 
> (Australia) '75 SIII 88".  This clearly shows two fuel tank fillers: one in 
> the normal right hand position and one in the same position on the left 
> hand.  According to the text this was fitted from new.

Well I talked to Brian this morning, and will see him on sunday's trip so I
suppose we can check :-)  (Brian is the newly elected president of the LRRSA) 

The milage reported in the article is out by a factor of 10, so the text may
be a bit sus.....  

> Does anyone know if the arrangement on Brian's Rover was generally available 
> in Australia, or is it a one off? 

Well an awful lot of rovers have this arrangement (in some places fuel stops
on main highways are further apart than the range with the std 10 gal tank)

I *assume* that it is a factory fit, but will check.  Certainly aftermarket
tanks are/were available for both  LHS and RHS fitment.  In my IIa 109 I
fitted a S/H RHS 15 gal tank in the LHS and just extended the filler pipe.

Maybe Lloyd or someone else can answer more precisely
cheers
-- 

  Daryl

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Ivory Soap in your toolbox??
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 11:11:42 +0930 (CST)

> construction zone and somehow managed to puncture their fuel tank:

Fixed with soap and....

> everyone's amazement it held, stopped the leak, and allowed them to
> drive 50 miles or so to a town with a more permanant solution.

Uumm strange I always thought of soap as a permanent solution......
The IIa had a soap fixed tank for ...   no its simply too embarassing..
But I will admit to leaving the soap fix on my bikes fuel tank in place for 3
years...   Down under the go is "Velvet" laundry soap, comes in one big
block the size of 3 normal bars,  for those Land-rover sized jobs :-) 

cheers
-- 

  Daryl

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 21:29:31 -0500
From: kgb@uic.edu (Ken Berliner)
Subject: Re: RR Handling

>I'm not asking for much, I'd just like my Rangie to stop handling like
>the Exxon Valdez.

Can't comment on jacked up spings or Overfinch handling conversion (Also,
what kind of RR do you have?)...

There was a thread on loose steering not too long ago (prompted by me) My
complaints were that the RR would shift around when on the highway.  I
changed the bushings, and that help a lot as well.  The RR stopped changing
lanes on its own.  Then I noticed the steering was a bit sloppy.  The car
responded, but it seemed like a lot of play was needed to activate the car.
As it turned out the ball joints were worn.  I suggest you check the drop
arm, drag link, and track link ball joints.  You check this by having
someone you trust turn the steering wheel while you lie down in front of
the beast checking the ball joints.  If you don't know what the ball joints
are, they connect that bar in front of the front axle to the steering box
and the passenger front wheel AND they connect the passenger side wheel to
the bar behind the front axle.

Now the steering is tight, but when the car goes over bumpy highway at a
reasonable speed, the steering wheel feels like it's jumping. (Hard to
explain)  I don't think I'm loosing control, but I'm too scared to turn the
wheel when that happens.  I attribute this to the steering dampener.  That
thing costs $85 and I don't think I need it.  Anyone have suggestions?

1. Am I right, is it that steering dampener?
2. Will it make that much difference if I change it?
3. Know where I can get it cheaper?

kgb
'89 RR

My RR Graphic:

==-
o o

Hey, what do you think?

P.S. On the thread of naming Rovers, I can't decide between:
     A) Buket o' bolts
     B) Rattle 'n' Hum
     C) Oil faithful
     D) The 4x4 Pinto
     E) Lucas my car slowly dies. (I Know, that's a bad one)

*********************************************************
Reachable at
E-mail: kgb@uic.edu
WWW: http://www.uic.edu/~kgb/     <- Rate Page Works!!!!
*********************************************************

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: RR Jumpy steering wheel
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 12:56:07 +0930 (CST)

> Now the steering is tight, but when the car goes over bumpy highway at a
> reasonable speed, the steering wheel feels like it's jumping. (Hard to
> explain)  I don't think I'm loosing control, but I'm too scared to turn the
> wheel when that happens.  I attribute this to the steering dampener.  That
> thing costs $85 and I don't think I need it.  Anyone have suggestions?

I'll get onto one of my favourite hobby horses again.   If the steering feels
like maybe the balance is out but "sharper" and induced by bumps,  Check the
swivel pin preload. 

A common problem with Land rovers and especially Range rovers is insufficient
pre-load,  Results in vehicles being prone to "head-shaking"  (a bikers term,
uumm wheel "shakes" but is self limiting) when you hit bumps or undulations.

Check this first before shelling out for a new damper.

cheers
-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Subject: info
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 95 23:08:19 -0500

Does any one on the net have any direct ties to NASA please, I am doing 
some research and need some help

Thank you all

Robin Craig

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 22:00:01 -0700
From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)
Subject: 4-speed / 5-speed / LROI info! / Midaltantic Rovers

1. I finally found out what was wrong with my gearbox. After pulling it, I
could still not figure it out. Everything seemed to work fine on my
living-space floor. I attached an electric motor to the input in order to
do some dynamic testing. Lo and behold, it refused to go into 3rd or 4th!
However, I was still stumped as to the cause. Finally, I pulled it apart,
and found that one of the 3-4 syncro spring clips was cracked... enough to
keep it from operating (especially when spinning) but when I poked and
prodded them insitu they appeared to be fine/intact. It seems that the
centripetal force of spinning made the crack separate, thereby making the
3-4 syncro not function. So I ordered the new springs (78 cents each)...
and a clutch, and a pressure plate, and a rear main seal, &c (while I am in
there I might as well...)

2. No progress on 5-speed conversions. I'll be putting the 4-speed back in,
but I am still determined to get the story on 5-speeds for series with
original engines.

Although several sources (web, individual email, &c.) mentioned David
McNamara (the oz diff dude) as a source of the Nissan 5-speed... he
actually is just 10 miles from Mark's 4wd, and referred me there. He is
about to ship some axles to someone in the USA, so if anyone wants to
piggy-back some heavy duty, locking diffs, give him a yell ;)

Mark's 4wd has 4 and 5 speed Nissan boxes, but no plans to mate them to the
2.25 liter petrol engine.

Mike Hoskins was not too excited about the L.E.G.S. LT77 conversion,
although he has not actually done one. He was interested in putting in a T5
(Ford/Mustang) box, but hadn't gotten a chance to try it. The T5 was
apparently interesting since it was beefy, but small enough that it could
be enplaced without moving the engine or changing the driveshaft lengths.

Both Roverworks and Great Basin Rover are reputed to have experience with
5-speed conversion.. although both failed to return telephone calls.

3. Can someone provide me with some information on LROI. I am interested in
subscription information. Also, I would like an address to write in order
to track down info on the portal axle conversion mentioned by Lloyd -->

:There was a pic in an LROI this year of a 110 with the portal axles.
:- a reader's vehicle.
:
:I seem to recall a mag' article "a few years ago" with the same
:and some text about there being other agricultural accessories
:from the same company, but I can't recall when or where the article was.

If anyone can give me issue numbers/dates for either of these portal axle
references... that would also be great.

4. I wanted to relate my impressions of Mike Hoskins (mid-atlantic rover...
sells L.E.G.S. gearboxes and hispeed transfer cases in the USA). After
convincing me I didn't want a  L.E.G.S. 5-speed conversion (which I was
disturbingly eager to purchase ... so that may be good or bad ;) Mike
proceeded to have a >30 minute conversation detailing how to troubleshoot
and rebuild my gearbox... including references to all the numbers in the
standard gearbox diagram and little tricks, &c. Then, next day he called
back (his dime) and left voicemail with some additional details/tips
concerning the rebuild which he had thought of after our conversation.
Impressive service considering I am not even a paying customer (though I
would do business with him in a second...)

Thank

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Aug 1995 08:51:27 +0200
From: terje@tvnorge.no (Terje Krogdahl)
Subject: RE: Whither side-specific springs 

>parts book refers to "drivers" and "passengers" side springs.  This implies 
>that the springs are fitted according to whether the vehicle is left or 
>right hand drive.  This tends to discount the theory that the springs are 
>fitted to compensate for the weight of the transmission etc. being offset to 
>the right.

I may be wrong, but...

I've been told that the springs compensate for the fact that when driving
on-road, the center of the road is usually higher than the sides. Thus, a
slightly lower spring on the drivers side will give you a MUCH more 
comfortable ride :-)

TK
http://www.tvnorge.no/~terje/index.e.html

PS! Hope I will see some of you at the NLRK 20th anniversary rally at
Hunderfossen, Norway next week! I'll be going up there today.

>.

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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