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From: i.mitchell@ic.ac.uk
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 95 10:07:32 BST
Subject: Brake Judder no more

Yippee!
I've fixed my brake judder problem.  Put on new rear shoes and cylinders (and the obligatory few pipes) and it seems to have solved the problem.  So it's Bonnie Scotland, here we come.  That's assuming that my leaky clutch and intermittently dodgy alternator hold out.
I'm off tomorrow, so see you in three weeks.
Ian

------------------------------

From: Tom Stevenson <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: 5 speed box
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 10:25:28 +0100 (BST)

Jory
Didn't Santana make a 5 speed box for their Series III's? I think they
also had a SIII with disc brakes on the front axle.
-- 
Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
Tel:(01475) 530581  Fax:(01475) 530601

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 04:46:57 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mark Perry <rxq281@freenet.mb.ca>
Subject: soap and springs

Soap: I have a copy of The Off-Roaders Handbook, by J.T. Crow and Spencer 
Murray, published by HP Books (Great book , but not a single LR in it!)
On Page 159, the fuel-tank leak soap method is described, and explained 
as <Petroleum and most bar soaps create a chemical reaction that causes 
the soap to swell, then harden> They claim one tank seam repair with soap 
held for years. I'll take my chances for now with the repair shop, though 
(Don't ask, it's a long story)

2. Differently-abled springs: In the course of some chassis work (Rear 
X-member, etc., etc., see above <Don't ask...>) I replaced my sagging 
springs with new all along. These are after-market mfr., cambered 
for passenger and driver sides. Before replacement, the LR was markedly 
listing to port, that is, the driver's side. Brooklands book on LR road 
tests for SII-IIA has one 1961 Motor Trader article of service data, which 
lists the spring 
specs: Nearside and Offside lengths are the same for 88 and 109, front 36 
1/2", rear 48 " Fronts for 88s have 9 leaves, rear 11; fronts for 109 
have 11 leaves, rear 10. Width for all is the same at 2 1/2 ".
Now for the good part: For the 88, front nearside free camber is 5 5/16, 
offside is 6 even; rear nearside is 6 3/4, offside 7.42. For the 109, 
front n/s is 5 1/8, o/s is 5 5/8, rear n/s is 8.2, o/s 9 1/4.
I take nearside to mean driver's, offside, passenger's, but maybe I've 
got it the wrong way round as these specs show less not more camber on 
driver side, and I'd thought the drivers side got more camber to 
compensate for more weight typically being on that side. Then there's 
that RHD/fuel tank thing, too.
Go figure.
BTW, the springs I got were clearly marked for each side - I sure hope 
the guy at the shop noticed, and could read English. Nice guy, does good 
work, but Tagalog is his mother tongue, spoken English basic. Of course, 
some LROs on 
this thread claim it would make no difference which side they end up on. 
I'll find out tomorrow.
Or does nearside/ offside mean in relation to the curb, er, kerb?
Then it would make more sense - NO, it wouldn't. Aaaaargh.
Cheers

 Mark Perry   Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada 1966 Ser.IIA 88 
Petrol Hardtop "Yes, I can see quite well over the spare tire."

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Fri, 4 Aug 1995 07:33:29 GMT -0600
Subject:       Re: American Source for Flaring Tool?

Scott Fugate writes:
> Gang,
> Anybody out there have any technical information on the type of flare used on 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> instance.  Does anybody know what the correct seating angle is?   
> I need to get a tool for modifying a set of copper brake pipes I have in hand. 

First
DO NOT USE COPPER FOR BRAKES.
(Or diesel fuel lines either, as an aside)
It is not made to withstand the pressures in brake systems. Copper 
*coated* steel is ok.

They have two flares that I'm aware of. A standard double flare which 
can be done with a double flaring tool available from most auto parts 
stores, about $20.
The other is a bubble flare, which takes a tool that was quite 
expensive about ten years ago when I priced it, on the order of over 
$100. Some *good* import car repair shops that work on British cars have them.
The double flare is used where the line connects to a flex line. The 
bubble is used at the wheel cyl.
Good import auto parts stores carry the lines with the correct 
fittings in a variety of lengths and also the fittings themselves.
Two places that I know of in the states that have the bubble flaring tool are a 
place here in Madison, and Abingdon Spares (an MG parts house) in 
Walpole, NH. I don't know the exact seat angle.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: 04 Aug 95 08:38:01 EDT
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Nasa contact

Robin:

I worked at Johnson Space Center for a while and still have contact at the
various NASA PAO's.  What are you looking for?

R. Pierce Reid

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer <Alan_Richer.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date:  4 Aug 95  8:05:13 EDT
Subject: Handy Rover hint: Cheap, good spray rig for paint

Well, I started spraying exterior bits of my Rover last night
and got a VERY pleasant surprise. 

First off, PPG acrylic enamels are nice stuff to work with. Simple,
effective and not TOO expensive - unlike the urethanes one place
tried to talk me into at $50 a quart...ick.

For PPG, give them the Ditzler numbers and they're happy - point of info,
they had much trouble trying to convert the DuPont numbers, as did
Sherwin-Williams.

Secondly, for anyone looking for a simple, fairly inexpensive spray rig
that does a good job, consider the Wagner FineCoat HVLP sprayer. I
have one that I purchased for use with lacquers and varnishes in
furniture finishing and fine cabinet work, but I had my doubts about its
ability to handle automotive finishes.

Boy, was I wrong.

This thing took on the enamel just like I was spraying polyurethane
varnish, leaving no lap marks or runs unless I got REAL stupid. 
It also, for the novice, only has one adjustment, for material volume.

Damark in the US has these for $119., factory-reconditioned. That's 
where I got mine, and I'm thrilled with it.

You can't go wrong at that price, especially considering the price of 
paint and a paint job...

When I can produce a clean paint job in a VERY dirty garage, I'm sold.
      
       -Alan

P.S.: I have no financial interest, blah, blah, blah...for the lawyer types..

      <grin> -ajr

P.P.S: Does anyone think that a general treatise on Rover spray-painting
would meet with interest? -ajr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Aug 95 09:29:48 EDT
From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben)
Subject: newbie still looking for 109, 88 found...

Hello there.

I am still looking for a 109 SW or 2-door.  Will see 1 or 2 this weekend.

BUT... I found 3(!) 88's in one place, 65,66 and 69, reportedly
in good shape, 2 of the 3 reportedly running, all to be sold for
a best offer this weekend.

What do you think they maybe worth (if in "daily driver" condition),
both in terms of $ and as trading chips for a 109" :)
(I'd consider the $ as the intermediate form of 88->109 morphing, anyway).

Thanks for your reply.
Jan
jib@big.att.com

PS. Do you know of any conversions in UK or Oz to alcohol or LPG?
Just asking ...

------------------------------

From: wharton@mail.scra.org
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 95 09:34:35 EST

        
        jory@mit wrote about Mike Hoskins at Mid-Atlantic Rover... 
        
        Any chance of getting the address & phone number of this company? I'd 
        like to add it to the great list Michael Carradine put out last week.
        
        Skip Wharton
        From the Holy City - Charleston, SC  USA

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 11:12:01 -0400
Subject: Re: RR Handling

The whale-like handling of my '89 RR (Annabelle) has always been a mystery to
me.  When I bought it (2 years ago) the handling was rather scary.  It was
difficult to steer, wandering on its own all over the highway.  It seemed to
track in any abnormality in the pavement, requiring a lot of work on long
trips.  I had the steering box adjusted, replaced the steering shock, had the
tires aligned, I replaced all the steering bushings, all to no avail.  Then,
after lunching a front tire on a rock, I put two new original spec Michelins
up front and the problem went away.

Then about a month ago the steering wheel started to pulsate on slow turns,
which soon developed into a THWAP THWAP THWAP sound as I turned corners.
 This problem went away on its own (pretty spooky), but I ordered new tie rod
ends and CV joints for the car anyway.  My mechanic replaced the tie rod ends
& aligned the wheels (pretty worn out, he said), but he told me that I didn't
need the CV's.

Now the steering is really tight, feels good, like new, but the truck has
gotten squirrelly again, following its nose all over the highway.  Go figger!
 Beats me.

Tont

-

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 11:14:55 -0400
Subject: Re: RR Jumpy steering wheel

>A common problem with Land rovers and especially Range rovers is
insufficient pre-load,

So what's "pre-load" and how do I do it?

Tony

-

------------------------------

From: "David McKain" <MCKAIN@cemr.wvu.edu>
Date:          Fri, 4 Aug 1995 12:42:31 EDT
Subject:       Address Change

Due to local changes my e-mail address has been changed from 

mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu

to

mckain@cemr.wvu.edu

We are no longer the College of Engineering but the College of 
Engineering and Mineral Resources. 

The old address will work for a while but who knows how long.

David McKain
1966 SIIa Petrol
mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu
(304) 599-0120
Morgantown, WV
USA                     

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Aug 1995 09:37:12 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Mid-America Rovers USA address

 Skip Wharton from the Holy City - Charleston, SC  USA writes:
       
>    jory@mit wrote about Mike Hoskins at Mid-America Rover... 
        
>    Any chance of getting the address & phone number of this company? I'd 
     like to add it to the great list Michael Carradine put out last week.

 Here you go, Skip.  I'm attaching the list again with Mid-America added.
 These sources and others are also in the Aluminum Workhorse, the quarterly
 30 page magazine published by the Land Rover Owners' Association, North
 America (LROA/NA).  Application and annual membership dues of $20 should
 be sent to LROA/NA, PO Box 1144, Paradise, CA 95967 USA.  The AW is really
 great although they don't like to toot their horn very much (or is it a
 Lucas problem??).  Oh, membership questions go to BobandSueB@aol.com

-Michael Carradine
 cs@crl.com

 __________________________________________________________________

 AB    Atlantic British Ltd.       Ph.  800-533-2210 Orders
       PO Box 110                  Ph.  518-664-6169
       Mechanicville, NY 12118     Fax  518-664-6641

 ABC   Atlantic British Parts of California*
       PO Box 620                  Ph.  916-778-3937
       Lewiston, CA 96052          Fax  916-778-3937

 BP    British Pacific Ltd.        Ph.  800-554-4133 Orders
       3317 Burton Avenue          Ph.  818-841-8945
       Burbank, CA 91504           Fax  818-841-3825

 DAP   D.A.P. Enterprises, Inc*    Ph.  802-885-6660
       86 Clinton Street           Fax  802-885-6662
       Springfield, VT 05156

 MAR   Mid-America Rovers          Ph.  816-763-3797
       10708 College Avenue        Fax  816-763-3797
       Kansas City, MO 64137

 RN    Rovers North, Inc           Ph.  802-879-0032
       Route 128                   Fax  802-879-9152
       Westford, VT 05494-9601

 *Atantic British of California and D.A.P. Inc. are now affiliated,
  and have assimilated British Rovers formerly in Cavendish, VT.
 __________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@s101dcascr.wr.usgs.gov>
Subject: Re: newbie still looking for 109, 88 found...
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 10:46:11 -0700 (PDT)

>>>>> Jan Ben writes:

> I am still looking for a 109 SW or 2-door.  Will see 1 or 2 this weekend.
> BUT... I found 3(!) 88's in one place, 65, 66 and 69, reportedly
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> both in terms of $ and as trading chips for a 109" :)
> (I'd consider the $ as the intermediate form of 88->109 morphing, anyway).

Where are they, and what're the conditions of the frames?  Two big
questions that lots of folks tend to overlook.  With the semi-anonymous
e-mail address we tend to have, and no location ID in the .sig block (if
any) we are frequently left hanging on location questions.   As for the 
frames, get under and look, with a hammer, flashlight and screw driver in 
hand.  Don't forget to do compression checks.  If the price is right for 
local conditions, go for it (if your SO is willing to put up with living 
in a used Rover lot- I'm working on mine).  

Pricing of vintage Land Rovers is just one of the many reasons to get to 
know your fellow LRO, wherever you are.

Walter Swain      1967 IIA 109 Safari SW, petrol
Davis, CA         Offer out on a 1958 '88 - Who Knows?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 11:18:46 -0700
From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool)
Subject: Re: Whither side-specific springs

Thanks to all who gave advice about the side-specific spring business.  I'm
now convinced to get Driver's side springs for both sides.

Cheers,

Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA
Several old Land-Rovers and other semi-collectible vehicles
<gpool@pacific.pacific.net> (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Aug 95 14:01:54 -0500
From: "John B. Friedman" <johannes@scribes.english.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Yakima roof rack installation on Discovery

If there is any one--like me-- who has a sizable investment in Yakima  
rain gutter roof racks, or for whatever reason does not want to go to  
the Thule Long Legs roof rack handled by LR dealers, the following  
account may be of use. 

	I had several sets of Yakima rain gutter racks and wanted to  
adapt the cross bars to the Discovery for carrying canoes and tandem  
bikes. A set of Quick and Easy cast aluminium racks I also had would  
not work as they turned too sharply and hit the glass at the rear of  
the roof. So I bought a set of what Yakima calls High Rise adaptors.  
These were 35.00. They are not really made for the Discovery though  
they easily could be if Yakima would recognize the car's existence.
	The kit consists of two long pieces of aluminium extrusion,  
two 4 1/2 inch bolts and some new rivets and pal nuts. The  
installation of these risers into existing towers lets you have your  
cross bars on about half of the car, back to the rise in the roof. If  
this is OK, for sail boards, skies and the like, stop reading here.
	On the other hand if you carry canoes, kyaks, lumber and  
other long things, you will want to be able to move the racks apart  
to  use the full roof line. To do this you will need to make some  
spacers for the rear high rise kit. I used some blocks of grey PVC  
7/8 inch thick, purchased at my local plastics shop. This stuff was  
3.00 a lb and I got much more than I needed for 4.00. This PVC  
material epoxys, drills,sands and saws easily. Then 2 6 inch zinc  
phosphate coated bolts at 3.20
	You will need a jig saw, a power sander and hand drill or  
drill press. I used two pieces of the 7/8 stock per tower( 1 and 3/4  
inch spacer) as I wanted to be sure that I would be well above the  
roof line with the cross bar. I jig sawed out some squares of the  
plastic and drilled the hole for the 3/8 bolt in the centers of each  
block, then roughed the faces of the blocks up with coarse sand paper  
and epoxied the blocks together and to the old Yakima black plastic  
sheer block which holds the aluminum ring for the cross bar at the  
top of the tower. Be SURE you grease your bolt and thread  when you  
screw eveything together to clamp it or you will have an  
immovable--and unuseable-- tower. Then I sanded-- on a small belt  
sander turned on its side-- the new spacer blocks to follow the  
contours of the extrusion and other Yakima parts and reassembled the  
whole thing.
I found that the best position at the very rear of the car was with  
the tower right on the end of the rubber glass moulding, as the lip  
of the tower clamp would at other locations hit the glass and perhaps  
scratch it. The side clearance between towers and ostrich windows is  
very tight at the rear. This set up is only slightly higher than the  
front cross bar and the cross bars look pretty level with a long  
straightedge across them. The only problem I see is that Yakima canoe  
and boat gunnel clamps which go around the cross bar hang down below  
it enough so that at the center of the roof, the wing nut on the  
clamp cannot be perfectly tightened. A smaller handwheel type nut on  
the inboard gunnel clamp would solve this problem.
I now have about 2 inches of of clearance under the rear bar and am  
ready to try a canoe on the cross bars. 

	If you buy the new Yakima high rise rain gutter towers as a  
unit, you will need to get new rivets and pal nuts, I think, as well  
as new bolts, and take the assembly apart in order to add your spacer  
for the rear.
	One could try calling Yakima and asking to get a set of high  
rise spacers with one set of the extrusions longer than they now are  
by 1 3/4 inches, as well as two 6 inch bolts. This would be the  
neatest and most effective way to deal with the kit on a Discovery
				
			John Friedman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 14:45:45 -0700
From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Subject: Re: RR Handling

> Now the steering is really tight, feels good, like new, but the truck has
> gotten squirrelly again, following its nose all over the highway.  Go figger!
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>  Beats me.
> Tont

  Check the toe-in. Sounds like you have toe-out.

R, bg

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 1995 18:23:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Handy Rover hint: Cheap, good spray

Alan Richer sprays his Rover and asks...

> P.P.S: Does anyone think that a general treatise on Rover spray-painting
> would meet with interest? -ajr

Not much good with this crowd... I think most use a brush!!  :)

Cheers
Mike

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Aug 1995 16:50:05 +0100
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Subject: Re: Handy Rover hint: Cheap, good spray

 Alan Richer sprays his Rover and asks...

>> P.P.S: Does anyone think that a general treatise on Rover spray-painting
>> would meet with interest? -ajr

 Well, I for one am interested in spray-painting vehicles, and aluminum
 particularily.  While you're at it review frame painting/coating, steel
 preping in general, and also galvanized metal refurbishment.  Thanks in
 advance  B)

 Michael Carradine, Architect                                 <cs@crl.com>
 Carradine Studios, PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA    Ph/Fax 510-988-0900
 _________________________________________________________________________
 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 12:40:50 +1000
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: fuel tanks

I fitted a ten gallon fuel tank on the LHS (to match the one on the RHS!);
the standard filler, hose and tank all fitted -
I fabricated a bracket for the front of the tank
(rear end bolts onto an existing chassis member)
and a little cover to protect the hose which
goes through the rear body and bulkhead.
I think I needed to cut the filler hose, insert a pipe
with hose clamps to sort out the "handedness" (memory's going...).
A Y-valve let you switch tanks.
Removing the underseat toolbox and cutting the holes was the worst bit.

I daresay there is/was a factory option for a similar arrangement.

You could use the 15(?) gallon tank easily enough.

Some cars here have 2x15 gallons plus the rear SW tank - owner fitted
I believe.

Lloyd

------------------------------

From: mcbinc@world.std.com (Monty C Brandenberg)
Subject: Re: Whither side-specific springs
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 23:05:57 -0400 (EDT)

Another datum FWIW...  When I bought my '69 88" it leaned somewhat
to the left.  Bought a set of springs from RN with left and right
being identical and installed the left front spring only (finished
half the intended work in twice the alloted time.  Know that story?).
It then leaned nicely to the right.  Paid some poor schmuck to 
replace the other three some time later and it now leans to the
left about like it did before.  All shackles are free to move, too...

monty

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 23:37:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: American Source for Flaring Tool?

On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, Tom Rowe wrote:

> DO NOT USE COPPER FOR BRAKES.
> (Or diesel fuel lines either, as an aside)
> It is not made to withstand the pressures in brake systems. Copper 
> *coated* steel is ok.

	Don't know what it is with Land Rovers, but the copper lines I 
	have seen installed on LandRovers just come apart.  Vibration
	seems to be a killer with them...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 23:50:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Handy Rover hint: Cheap, good spray

On Fri, 4 Aug 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote:

> > P.P.S: Does anyone think that a general treatise on Rover spray-painting
> > would meet with interest? -ajr
> Not much good with this crowd... I think most use a brush!!  :)

	Well, let's be fair...  Some use a roller too... :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 23:25:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Power Brake diaphram

Has anyone tried to replace the diaphram in the power brake unit?  It 
shows this being done in some auto books but I don't seem to see anything 
in Haynes or workshop manual. Mine has a pin hole in it I think.  Has anyone 
found a replacement cable for the choke unit with the built in choke heat light switch.  I have the 
I have the light coming on but it now stays on because I had to replace the 
Rover one with a non Rover type.  I am sure other British units used the same 
system for alerting you to push in the choke.   While I am asking, does 
anyone know how to take the slave clutch unit off an Austin Marina?  Does 
it spilt into tow pieces? I can't get it past the clutch push lever so I 
can get it off to put in a kit.  Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 1995 02:03:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: newbie still looking for 109, 88 fou

Jan looks for a 109....

> BUT... I found 3(!) 88's in one place, 65,66 and 69, reportedly
> in good shape, 2 of the 3 reportedly running, all to be sold for
> a best offer this weekend.
/ 

This is how it all starts.....

> What do you think they maybe worth (if in "daily driver" condition),
> both in terms of $ and as trading chips for a 109" :)
/

Sure... you *think* that you will want to sell them off..  but once you have
them your tune will change... You'll see. We've all been there, you know.

Seriously... couldn't even begin to tell you what they're worth.. to begin
with, what part of the world are these located in??

Cheers
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney")      
              7          1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern")
           #:-}>         1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts)

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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