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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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From: Andrew Grafton <A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Disco Purchase/Basket with ants.
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 10:24:20 BST

> >don't know what she feels really.

 	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 7 lines)]
> >Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838
> >From: Andrew Grafton <A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk>
 
> Yeah, ants on the cookies sounds sort of familiar.  The basket with my D90
> had good stuff in it, until I tried to eat it.  All was stale, the tea, the

er...

I had nothing to do with this thread yet?!  
It worries me when my address turns up out
of the blue for no reason...  :-)

All the best,
Andy
A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk

------------------------------

From: Andrew Grafton <A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: re: Crashes and Impacts
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 11:26:52 BST

> Trevor Easton says:
> <In order to provide a suitable crumple zone for compliance with US specs the 
> <frame of the Discovery had to be weakened! The idea is, I guess to dissipate 
 	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 7 lines)]
> <protect the passengers". The real answer to all these problems is not to hit 
> <things.

{snip}
> the "energy absorption" areas of vehicles.  One very common giveaway is the
> "accordion pleat" area, another is the "dented angle" (where a folded box-beam
> or girder section intentionally is reduced in cross-section to provide a 
> fold-point or hinge for energy absorption.

These are typical methods of creating a stress concentration which
initiates a controlled collapse of the front chassis members.  There
are lots of other ways of doing so - a change of material, or material
thickness being just two examples.  I would guess that the Disco uses
one of these methods to initiate controlled collapse.

> My Discovery shows neither of these telltales anywhere.  The frame looks 
> like it was designed to be as strong as possible to let the seat belts do 
> the energy absorption.  I guess with a 6000+ lb GVWR you can get away
> with that- successfully.

No you can't get away with that.  If you crash a completely rigid structure
at 40mph into a brick wall you are dead because the decelerations involved
will kill you.  Belts do not absorb crash energy - they spread the load 
of your body's deceleration over chest and pelvis and even out peaks by 
stretching.  Webbing is rather springy and most of the energy put into
elastically stretching the belt is eventually returned to you.  If you
stretch the belt above the elastic limit and it starts to absorb energy
then it is close to snapping - a situation car companies strive to avoid.

The frontal impact test which the Disco is capable of passing (otherwise
it wouldn't be on sale in the UK) is a 'brick wall' test where the vehicle 
decelerates from a set speed to rest very quickly.  Heavier cars need more 
energy-absorbing crush material than lighter cars as there is more energy
there to absorb.  The structure must deform in order to absorb energy.

> Note also that the Discovery does NOT comply with passenger-car standards;
> as it's legally a medium-duty truck, not a passenger car (or so says the
> California/Massachusetts Emissions Compliance Testing sticker under my
> hood).

Oh, yes it does.  In the UK.  In Germany.  In Holland.  I'll bet that in
parts of the US it is legally a passenger car and perhaps in Canada?

Any comments from list members?

I don't know for sure about the above but the point is that the Disco will
pass appropriate crash tests, because a lot of work has gone into designing
it that way.  I can say that because I have a graph in front on me 
relating Head Injury Criteria and Chest Acceleration for frontal
impact tests on various cars.  The Disco is little worse than the other 
(estate) cars on either scale, which makes it far superior to previous LR
products.  Chances are that in future frontal impact tests (which will
simulate real-world offest frontals) modern Landrover products will perform
very well as they have enough strength to prevent intrusion and/or 
destruction of the passenger compartment.  Unlike Ford Sierras.

Just ramblin'

All the best,

Andy
A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk

------------------------------

From: Andrew Grafton <A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Disco Chassis construction/crumpling
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 12:22:41 BST

Have just examined a latest-spec Disco <no, officer - there is
nothing suspicious about me lying under this brand new Disco
that doesn't belong to me!>.

I reckon that the collapse of the front chassis rails is initiated
by a violent change in cross-section rather than a change in 
thickness or material as I hypotesised earlier.  If you look
the chassis rail swings upwards and becomes much smaller in cross
section just in front of the bulkhead.  This is where the collapse
should start and from the roughly square section of the chassis from 
there forwards, I'd say that the aim is to 'accordion pleat' the rail
to absorb the maximum amount of energy (rather than Z bends which
don't absorb so much).

Whilst poking around I found there is a *huge* front crossmember.
I think the presence of this may result in good offset frontal 
performance where only one main rail is involved in the collision,
because it will transfer the energy to the rest of the structure.

The only other thing that struck me is that for a heavy vehicle 
the main rails look a little weedy re: frontals - a further
guess here is that perhaps a lot of crash energy is absorbed by
stuffing the engine into the bulkhead?

Anyone out there examined a Disco that's been in a frontal?
I'd be interested to know whether I'm right or wrong...

All the best,

Andy
A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Toyotas, winches and Brakes
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 07:37:00 DST

 (Place honourable tongue in honourable cheek)
Maybe the additional weight of the winch caused the axles to bend and the 
brake calipers to rub continuously on the discs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:33:33 +0059 (BST)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: re: Crashes and Impacts

> > Note also that the Discovery does NOT comply with passenger-car standards;
> > as it's legally a medium-duty truck, not a passenger car (or so says the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> parts of the US it is legally a passenger car and perhaps in Canada?
> Any comments from list members?

Yes, actually, there are some odd rules in the U.S. for trucks vs. cars. 
Nothing major, but trucks were exempt from the SRS (airbag or active 
belts) regulations when cars were not. They were exempt from the 'third 
brake light' rule. There are other standards that vary quite a bit. I 
suspect, however, that space frame and crash tests are the same, for the 
safety of the passenger car that might be at the other end of the crash, 
if no other reason.  Also, I think trucks are being gradually brought 
into compliance.

Charlie

------------------------------

From: William Terry <wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com>
Subject: Re: Re. Tell Me About Your Rover "Campers"
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:13:25 -0400 (EDT)

I'll try this again, since the first seemed to skip cyberspace and head 
for the netherworlds.

Mine is based on a 109 Regular. It's still in the works as I've only had 
the Landy for a couple of months and I've been sorting it out.

I've moved the two side benches from behind the front seats to the rear 
of the vehicle. This still leaves reasonable access to the rear stowage 
bins. I'm removing the panels which cover the holes in the front part of 
the side "bench" where the bench seats were, and building out the cubbies 
underneath even deeper than the rear stowage bins. Basically I'm trying 
to make them as deep and expansive as possible without interfering with 
limited access to any "wheel well" bolts. Then on top of these I'm 
building simple metal cabinets up to the bottom of the windows. They will 
extend between the seat bulkhead and the rear mounted side bench seats 
and be only as deep as the "bench". Their stowage height is from the 
depth of the new cubbies to the window bottom. One side will open on the 
top and will be for dry, clean goods like clothes and sleeping bags. The 
other side will have a small sink I got from a salvaged VW camper (the 
water tank will be in the cabinet underneath) and the cabinet will open 
in front. With a proper "lip" water from the sink shouldn't get into the 
cabinet. This cabinet is for cooking gear, food and such. A set of wing 
nut "clamps" will hold a Coleman two burner stove next to the sink. It 
can be easily removed to cook on a picnic table. This layout was designed 
to not intrude into the regular floor space, leaving plenty of room for 
the pups, cooler, 8" diam. telescope...

Sleeping for my wife and I will be in suspended cots. One level for the 
cots is just above the cabinets with a cross bar above the seat bulkhead 
and one at the rear of the vehicle. The side rails of the cots will be 
held spread out by little plates welded to the cross bars. One cot 
causes two people to be mushed together in the middle where it sags. Two 
cots provides a bit more moving space, but intimacy is up to invention 
;-) Cots are storable on each side of the vehicle.

The final stage is to make a rim like that on the bottom of the roof 
panel. This will be permanently attached to the top of the sides to 
provide structural integrity. The roof panel will then be liftable ala VW 
camper with more lift in the back than in the front. The gap inbetween 
will be suitable waterproof cloth. The cots will then be mountable using 
the rim's cross member. Cots will be stored in place when the roof is down.

We may make a simple table panel for between the two bench seats which 
could hook onto the cabinet corners, but I haven't settled on a design 
since every one I come up with limits mobility in and out of the camper.

______________W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______________
  How do we acquire wisdom along with all these shiny things? (David Brin)

  wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com
  http://glenfiddich.minerva.bah.com:8062/CyberJungle.html
  MINERVA Development Team, Booz, Allen & Hamilton

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: LRO Murder Rate
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 08:10:00 DST

Dixon may be exposed to danger in Grimsby. If he goes all the way to Owls 
Head and fails to notice the other Canadian Land Rover.   Miss Golightly was 
offended when I read the OVLR news to her and has been muttering things 
about crumple zones and side impacts ever since.

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Murder rate and seats
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 08:12:00 DST

Dixon, Miss G says "Send me a set of $7 rear seats and you will be forgiven"

Regards
Trevor easton

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: Limericks and Clutch Push Rods
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 08:22:00 DST

On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Russell G. Dushin wrote:

 If you did, can you measure it up for us?  There's five or six of us
 out here wondering if our rods are long enough.

Charlie Wright replied

Uh-oh, I think I hear limmericks in the distance...

A Land Rover Owner from Utah,
Could not keep his hands off his hooter.
The length of his rod
really bothered the sod.
So he told all the world by computer.

Thanks for the inspiration Charlie

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:19:00 -0400 
From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" <chrisz@bnr.ca>
Subject:  re:Discovery Leasing 

I would generally agree with what has been said about leasing iff you
do not own a business with which you can write off vehicle expenses.

If deciding on leasing you also need to consider whether it will be
better than simply writing off the depreciation. In Canada note that
you can write off to a maximum vehicle value of CDN$24000. Anything
above that is lost. The Discovery is significantly over this!

In this case you can lease the vehicle until the residual is under
CDN$24,000; purchase the vehicle from the leasing company; and then
continue by writing off the depreciation.

A couple of notes:
   . By my calculations writing off leasing vs depreciation (under 24K)
     is approximately even.
   . Calculating the write off (and the size of the lease payment you
     want) is a little complicated because it is also pro-rated against
     24K

Cheers,
  -Christian Szpilfogel
   chrisz@bnr.ca

95 Discovery - but I'll be damned if I can draw it!

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Wed, 26 Jul 1995 07:45:40 GMT -0600
Subject:       Re: Toyotas, winches and Brakes

Easton,
Maybe you had your tongue in cheek, but the major bit it off. (See 
below)
Tom

> From:          Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
> To:            Land-Rover-Owner@uk.stratus.com
> X-To:          "'Land Rover Digest'" <Land-Rover-Owner@team.net>
> Subject:       Toyotas, winches and Brakes
> Date:          Wed, 26 Jul 95 07:37:00 DST

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net
> To:            Land-Rover-Owner@uk.stratus.com
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>  (Place honourable tongue in honourable cheek)
> Maybe the additional weight of the winch caused the axles to bend and the 

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 26 Jul 95  9:04:02 EDT
Subject: Ignition wiring revisited

A few days ago, I asked a question about the proper wiring of a 
ballast-type coil in the Rover, which was originally built with a non-ballast
system. With no responses in hand, I decided to track the wily beast myself.

If converting from Diesel (as I am), then there will be several components
your vehicle is innocent of, the most notable being a separate starter relay
and an ignition coil. This setup helps resolve both issues.

I ended up installing a generic Ford starter relay on the bulkhead, in place of
the relay that was originally part of my Diesel starter. The reason I chose this
particular part was twofold:

1. They're easy to get and inexpensive (Fords break down everywhere...<grin>)
2.  This relay had a contact for ballast resistor bypass.

The wiring scheme I eventually implemented in my vehicle allowed the starter
relay to bypass the ballast resistor on th bulkhead, giving a hotter spark on
start-up. It was wired as follows:

{Pardon the crude graphics. -ajr}

Switched +12------- Ignition switch ------ Coil contact on relay ----ground 
(relay frame)

Switched +12 ------ Ballast Resistor ----- + Lug - Coil -  - Lug 
-----Distributor
            | 
+12 from starter-"I" contact on starter relay |

It seems to work quite well... and can be done with easily available ignition 
parts.
The coil I used was a generic replacement used by most conventional ignition 
cars from
the 1950s on up. The ballast resistor was  Chrysler/Volvo/Ford/... the same one 
got used
in many brands of automobile. (Thanks for the tip, Dixon!)

      Just for information, ajr

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jul 1995 15:25:12 U
From: "Marc Rengers" <Marc.Rengers@ms.media-gn.iaf.nl>
Subject: subscribe?

Hello from Holland!

I got your address from someone in Holland and he knew I would like to =
join a Landy mailing list. I only don't know if i'm at the right address =
for joining a mailing list, but i'm sure you can tell me that.
I'm very curious what i can find here.

Marc Rengers

marc.rengers@ms.media-gn.iaf.nl

------------------------------

From: usssbkpy@ibmmail.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:38:45 EDT

>From   : Paul M. Brodie
Address: USSSBKPY@IBMMAIL.COM
Subject: D90 Items
                                                            
Greetings, fellow D90 owners - a few items ...

1) Does your D90 generate a lot of heat up through the area below the
   cubbie ?? Mine is throwing up wicked quantities of heat, and after
   an hour, the steel below the cubbie is too hot to touch. I was wonder-
   ing if this is a syndrome of the D90 (mine's a 94).

2) I, too, would vote for an extra fuel tank. I get about 12.3 MPG, and
   would like to be able to go further before refills.

3) My front end recently had a "close encounter" with Japanese steel
   (a/k/a Reynolds Wrap). The only damages to the D90 were that the
   brush bar was pushed back towards the body, and the right side of the
   front bumper was pushed in - both easily remedied by tying my tow
   strap to a tree and pulling them out. Oh, yes - one of those vertical
   elements on the brush bar picked up a bit of paint from the other car,
   and is a bit twisted, but a hammer should take that out (good thing
   the Nissan was black & matched the brush bar !!).

   The other vehicle will need a new passenger door and front quarter
   panel. Sure made me glad I was driving a Land Rover !! I was wearing
   my shoulder harness - quite enough protection, thank you. Who needs
   air bags ??

Regards !

Paul M. Brodie                 #======#
'94 Red D90                    |+--+|  \
(still unnamed)
                               |+--+|---\___
USSSBKPY@IBMMAIL.COM           | _  |D90|_  |}
                        * * * ==(_)"""""(_)""
                                                            

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:03:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: Murder rate and seats

On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Easton Trevor wrote:

> Dixon, Miss G says "Send me a set of $7 rear seats and you will be forgiven"

	Should have been at the Birthday Party... :-)

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: your mail
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 15:14:35 BST

Sounds suspiciously as though you have your handbrake
stuck partially on.Surprised you havent smelt burning!
If so,and you release it,it should improve your fuel
consumption as well.

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Andrew Grafton <A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: (good) news?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 15:21:59 BST

Whilst lying under that 4 month old Disco, I noticed a few drops
of oil on the underside of the gearbox (manual)...  Looks like
Landrover are still doing their job.  Couldn't tell where the
oil had originally come from, but it wasn't ATF from the gearbox
or EP90 from the transfer case (those are the right lubricants, 
aren't they?) so presumably the 300tdi was spitting oil out?

All the best,

Andy
A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 07:29:14 -0700
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: Re: Warn Winch Mount

You wrote: 

>Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:27:33 +0100
>From: cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk (Charlie Wright)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)]
>Charlie
>C. R. Wright                                    Dept. of Genetics

Just my two cents/pence on this.  It seems the winch is located in a position 
that maximizes the effect of mass in increasing the "porpoising" effect on 
the front brakes.  It may be lighter than most passengers but its actually in 
front of the brakes.  The passengers, on the other hand, while contributing a 
component of momentum transfer to the front brakes also serve to counteract 
this effect by contributing a counteracting force contributing to keeping the 
rear wheels in contact (usually :) ) with the pavement/tarmac.

Thinking a bit more about this: is the position of the calipers on disc 
brakes designed to account for the porpoising effect? (i.e., the calipers are 
off "top dead center" to the rear).  Would placing significant weight (i.e. a 
hundred or so pound winch) on the front of the vehicle contribute an unusual 
torque to the calipers?? 

Nothing like armchair engineers, eh? :)
OK I'll "stop" now.

Cheers,

Jeremy Bartlett

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 07:37:34 -0700
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

You wrote: 

>Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 07:36:34 MST
>From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>Hello my friends,
>I found a '56 Series I for sale, I'm fairly certain he'd take $2200 for.
snip
>Thanks, Dave (now completely mad too!) Brown
>From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
>Subject: '56 Series I 107 5-door for sale...

Dave, 

>From your description and the costs of 109s I'd say this is a real deal, 
bearing in mind that all cars are money pits.  Where's it located?  Arizona?  
Has the engine ever been rebuilt?  Mileage?

I'd plan on putting $6,000 into it.  My guess is you'd still be able to recover 
costs in the long run.  Probably a slower seller than a 109 but more 
"collectible".

Cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 10:53:34 EDT
From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben)
Subject: newbie stupid questions

Hi there.
Actually, I am not even a newbie - I am still looking for 
my first LR (109" SII/IIa SW - any help GREATLY appreciated).

I. Importing why's:

1. if 500 D110 came over in '93, can anyone import a '93 from UK?
2.  what is involved in federalizing an 80-90 LR?
3. do you know of any loopholes (I thought that at one point anyone could
			bring over anything for pers.use once in 10yrs.?)

4. if SII were imported upto '68, why do I see '70 gas models here in US.
5.  Is importing from Canada as complicated as from the UK?

II. Misc why's

1. Is the pickup bulkhead on a 109" structurally important? Can it be removed
  to get a SW?

2. If Rover V8 was available on some LR, why do I need a kit to install it
  in SII/III ? Does Buick-Olds 215/?/? have the same bolt pattern?

3. At the SII top speed of 60mph (?) in OD, what is the rpm?

4. (most important)  Why with all these LR II/III in the World I still can't
find mine (boo-hoo)?

Thanks for your patience.
jan
jib@big.att.com

------------------------------

From: DANCSC@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:13:45 -0400
Subject: Re: #2(3) The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

In a message dated 95-07-26 04:42:18 EDT, you write:

>How do
>you think Concord, NH, would fair with a few million low income under-
>educated starving families packed within the confines of it's city
>limits???

------------------------------

From: Anthony Verriello <verriello_anthony@jpmorgan.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:19:00 -0400
Subject: 94 D90 noisy spare tire carrier

>>-Rick
>>'94 D90 - for sale, $90K, black, 9.8K miles,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>>LSI Logic Corporation
>>(408) 433-7149

>hey rick... is this a typo? this price seems a bit low.  I was thinking you
>should be up around the 140k mark to be fair to the competition, however if
>90k is truly your selling price, then I will send a cashier's check today.
>Danarosa

Ok I think Ive reached the point where I will part with my '94 D90, black.  I have
3K miles so Ill take $87,000 or a matching pair of 95 4.0 & Disco in trade,
both in black of course.

has any one had a problem with a 94 D90 and a really noisy rear tire carrier...mine
rumbles like crazy and the grease that the dealer keeps adding just oozes out after
a few days.

Tony
'94 black D90 (happiness is pulling a jeep out of a hole)

------------------------------

From: DANCSC@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:20:41 -0400
Subject: Concord NH Gestapo.

Nigel,

>How do
>you think Concord, NH, would fair with a few million low income under-
>educated starving families packed within the confines of it's city
>limits???

being from Concord, I have to agree.  many timeswhen I was growing up I hated
New Hampshire for having more Police than non-police (ie. regular folk) but
after a few years out here in Sunny California, I am inclined to believe that
New Hampshire doesn't have a glut of Police, but rather a lack of problems
for them to deal with.  This is directly related to the lower population.
  If the powers were to up and raise New England rents, then bring in about
20,000 more people to each town, and then remove about 30,000 jobs, we might
see an increase in the violent crime rate bringing the proportions to
comparable levels with the high crime states. (these are very round numbers)
. 
  it would be nice to see a time when guns were not necessary at all in any
household, or even in the hands of the government, but we all know....
  also, most people in New England are too busy freezing there balls off, or
swatting mosquitos,to be concerned with shooting other people.  Out here
these are two problems that rarely if ever occur.
  Gentlemen, enjoy your day.

Gunless in Rosa
dan

------------------------------

From: DANCSC@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:26:52 -0400
Subject: Rick Larson's deal of the Century!

In a message dated 95-07-26 04:42:18 EDT, you write:

> > -Rick
> > '94 D90 - for sale, $90K, black, 9.8K miles,
> >           very rare, limited, NAS edition.

hey rick, did you see all the interest generated by this ad?  I tell you that
you should seriously consider upping your price to the 140k mark or even
higher. Do you have the very very rare rubber floormats? (those are worth
about 20grand a piece...)
 best of luck Rick, I can't imagine what tragedy has befallen you that is
forcing you to have to practically "give" your Rover away... I still can't
believe it! only 90 grand for a used Rover... this is a steal!
danarosa
ps. hey, are you coming to paradise this weekend?

------------------------------

From: JEPurnell@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:29:53 -0400
Subject: Re:  Tell Me About Your Rover "Campers"

In a message dated 95-07-26 04:42:05 EDT, you write:

>Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 22:47:57 -0700
>From: Roger Sinasohn <sinasohn@crl.com>
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>  truck as a camper (sleeping, storage, etc.).  It occurs to me that I've
>  a few L-R campers with homemade bed/cabinet/etc. built-ins, and no two
were
>  alike.  If you, Gentle Reader, have a L-R camper, please advise how it is
>> set up.  Maybe I can get some ideas to incorporate into mine.

My 5 string Banjo and I  go to Strawberry Music Festival every Labor day up
in Yosemite Natl Park for a 5 day camping and bluegrass music orgy and I 've
thinking about how to camp with the  Defender.  I plan to cut some plywood to
fit across the inner fender humps and create a stable platform to sleep on.
This should provide storage underneath too.  I have a car cover that should
give me that "tent" look and feel and provide some darkness for
sleeping(usually go to sleep at sunrise).  And I can always remove the surrey
top and put back on the full top and adjust ventilation with the zip out
windows.  

Anyone else ever do this?  Success?
thanks 

John
CARB, Engineer
94 D90
JEPurnell@aol.com

------------------------------

From: JEPurnell@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:33:25 -0400
Subject: Re:  Disco Purchase/Basket with ants. (fwd)

In a message dated 95-07-26 04:42:05 EDT, you write:

>From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
>Subject: Re: Disco Purchase/Basket with ants. (fwd)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>rd/nigel
>------------------------------
Russel, it's true, I am a neophyte, I have a lot to learn about proper Landie
etiquette, but, in my favour judging by previous postings,  I do prefer the
oatmeal stout by Mr. Smith to the Heineken with the backwash--I learn
quickly, so please continue your tutelage.  No more lemon choc chip cookies
for me! (...and where are those ants...) 

------------------------------

From: JEPurnell@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:31:50 -0400
Subject: Re:   large/r fuel tank for D90

In a message dated 95-07-26 04:42:05 EDT, you write:

>From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
>Subject: Re: large/r fuel tank for D90
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>Russ
>> D90? I would love to get either one larger tank or a second reserve tank.

So if you carry extra fuel in the big 5 gallon cans, where do you strap them?
 Doesn't seem to be room for a jerry can rack by the spare tire, are they
even available? and can you put them on the bumper like some J%%Ps I have
seen. (...where?, what j%%p? whaddaya mean?)
JOhn

------------------------------

From: JEPurnell@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:33:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Defender Cost$

In a message dated 95-07-26 04:42:05 EDT, you write:

>From: Franz.Parzefall@Physik.TU-Muenchen.DE
> > -Rick
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>Franz
>-------------------------------------------------------------
With all the talk on the list about how Defender90s are over priced in US,
and thus, some proffer,  are "for yuppie eyes only," how much does a D90 cost
in England?  And who can buy them? Are they equivalent financially (**only**)
to buying a J%%P or new pickup here in US? Is the above listed $24,000
correct for a D90 TDi?. 

I don't mean imported though, I mean purchased and staying in England, and
simply converting pounds to dollars for comparison.  (I can check in the
paper for exchange rate, it was 1:2 when I was there, making everything  very
expensive-- but the cream teas were worth every pound, pun intended.   I
saved my traveler's cheques till I go back instead of trading them back in
for a considerable loss, hoping rates would come back a little.)

John
D90, 1994

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:42:40 GMT -0600
Subject:       Topics of list

Can we stick to Land Rovers and related material?
I think there is probably a gun/murder/NRA/pc/non-pc/whatever list out there 
to discuss other topics on. I subscribed to this list to read about 
Land Rovers, not.........
My two cents on the topic. (of course I don't know where that will 
leave me with my interest in the proper LR beer)
Tom

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Topics of list
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 17:10:16 BST

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)]
>  Four wheel drive allows you to get
>  stuck in places even more inaccessible.
Oh dear,Tom.And there I was thinking *someone* would get round
to fully armed Pink Panthers eventually.Humph!

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 09:36:07 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Re: Next question... (Written in "Taylor-ease")

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Re: Next question... (Written in "Taylor-ease")
>> Dave "Taylor" Brown asks...
>> And the "Taylor" question of the day... "If I hook the hook of a front
>> mounted winch to the rear end, can I shorten my wheel base? Say, turn
>> my "88" into an "80"?

To which "uncle Roger" replies...

>Actually, yes.  What you need is the Popeet Frame Extender/Compressor system.
> The regular model will allow you to change your 88" into an 84", while the
>"extended range" model will actually give you an 89"!  (Works on 109"s, too,
>giving you a 100"!  Perfect for swapping between your 109" station wagon body
>and your Range Rover body!)

>And free, with every order, this lovely set of potato peelers, curly-fry
>makers, and lemon juicer!  Act now, and you'll also get the handy-dandy
>combination fish scaler and pizza slicer!

>They're distributed exclusively in the US by British Pacific, I think...

And to which I add...

HEY THERE! Maybe I could turn my 109 into a 110 and ask $90,000 (US) for it?

Then I could turn the 88 into a 90, sell it for $90,000 (US), and then...

Does Popeet sell anything to turn a RHD model into a LHD? Or do they
still need to go through the drive-thru restaurants in reverse??

How about an "expand-o-frame"? (Talk about the crumple zones!)

>                  "There is pleasure pure in being mad
>                             that none but madmen know."

I think we're there!

Dave (Taylor) Brown...

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re:   large/r fuel tank for D90
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 9:36:15 PDT

> To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
> even available? and can you put them on the bumper like some J%%Ps I have
> seen. (...where?, what j%%p? whaddaya mean?)
> JOhn
I have a carrier I welded up that straps to the spare tire. This allows
me to carry 2 5 gallon jerry cans. I really hate to travel on the
Hiway with 10 gallons of gas straped to the spare.
 
It seems to me there is room in the fender wells for a couple of small 
tanks. I will have to look into it.

Russ Burns

And I thought  that was the way english cookies were supposed to taste.
kinda like warm beer...

v

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:41:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Topics of list

On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Tom Rowe wrote:

> Can we stick to Land Rovers and related material?

HEAR HEAR!!
The traffic on this list is reaching epidemic proportions anyway, so 
let's stick to the topic!

John Brabyn
89 RR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 17:44:06 +0100
From: Huw@citadel.powernet.co.uk (Huw Jones)
Subject: Uneven Tyre Wear

        I have a 1975 SIII SWB Pertrol station wagon. I was just about to
get some mud tyres
     at Billing when I noticed that the outside edge of the front LH tyre
had been scrubbed badly
     and that the RH side was only a little better. 

        Could this be (i) Tracking - If so can I adjust it or should it go
to a garage.
                     (ii) Wheel Bearings
                    (iii) Swivel Bearings.

        What do you think  ?

        Regards,
Huw Jones
Bukinghamshire
United Kingdom

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 18:21:17 +0059 (BST)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: large/r fuel tank for D90

> I have a carrier I welded up that straps to the spare tire. This allows
> me to carry 2 5 gallon jerry cans. I really hate to travel on the
> Hiway with 10 gallons of gas straped to the spare.

All you need is an earlier model... jerry cans fit nicely in the 
'breakfast' if you don't have a flush radiator panel (never mind the 
cooling or the implications of frontal impact. Think of it as 'reactive 
armour')

Charlie

(you can also put them in a holder on an expedition roof-rack. You can 
manage about 6-8 across if you put 'em on edge.. just remember where your 
new center of gravity is)

------------------------------

From: Brian Neill Tiedemann <s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: ramblings...
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 03:26:40 +1000 (EST)

Political blah blah blah;
Handguns;
Blatent attacks on whateverthuhell;

WHO GIVES A FIDDLE DE DEEE!!(?)
* Land Rovers boys, _Land Rovers_ *
That's what we're here for.
(oh and SLOB-SuitableLandieOwnerBooze discussions)

Same for the Logic stuff too, tho it's less offensive.

(falls off soapbox)

My compliments on selling that 90 for such a song (cashiers cheque wasn't 
it?). Maybe I ought to put up the Rangie- can't figure an amount to add 
to my base price of 125k as compensation for the blood, sweat, tears, 
four letter words etc which I have put in to service it regularly.....

Did anyone hear me ask about heated windscreens to fit my 77 RR?
Same size windscreen as a late (heated) model? 

Just about to start re-assembling my 8000# Ramsay PTO winch- sandblasted, 
TIGed holes in casting, powder coated, new bearings+seal+gaskets+grease 
nipples+bolts. Gotta figure out a nice cradle to hide it in close to the 
front x-member of the RR now (behind bumper).
Its PO had grown moss and harboured an ant colony in this winch's cable 
as it sat in his wood pile ~10 years! How do I clean the cable (for now)?

BTW, I seem to get all the last lines people send, unclipped! No problem 
to me!!??
seeya,

BT.
77 RR (foggy in here)

------------------------------

From: ScottFugate_Group8@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 13:25:26 EDT
Subject: The Sound of Silence

WARNING:  This post contains absolutely nothing about murder rates, gun 
control, science or logic.  Sorry.

Thanks to all who replied with advice on my RR squeaky brake problem.  Let me 
say that the blue gooey stuff applied to the backs of the brake pads REALLY 
WORKS!  My braking is stealthy again.  On the other hand, anyone facing a 
brake pad replacement on a non-ABS Range Rover should forget about buying the 
brake pad shims that the parts counter man might try to sell you.  I had 
installed these on the front pads, and would have done so on the rear as well, 
but the stupid things they sold me were the wrong size.  When I took the front 
pads out to apply the blue goo, the shims had migrated half way off of the pad 
after one week of driving.  Could possibly have eaten into the hub if not 
caught in time.  Some force set up during braking was obviously stronger than 
the adhesive on the shim.  Shim sets were $8-9 (5.03-5.66 quid, 10.85-12.21 
Australian) each for front and back.  The house-brand "Disc Brake Anti-Squeal" 
goo cost about $2.50 (1.57 Sterling, 3.39 Australian).  Just enough to do the 
complete job with none left over.  Good planning on someone's part.  Take my 
advice use the goo and spend the difference on beer.

Oh, yeah.  I'm planning to install "Polybush" suspension bushings on the RR 
this weekend.  Does anyone know how tight to torque the bolts on the panard 
rods?  Does the front tie rod / drag link / whatever-it-is have to come off to 
remove the front panard rod?

Scott Fugate
1970 IIA 88
1989 RR

Extra line

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 10:49:27 PDT
From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot)
Subject: Re: SIIa 109 

All, 

I have been offered a 109 SIIA $750. Its been standing for at least 4 years. 
It's complete, broken glass on rear door, engine has been rebuilt, who knows 
when ! Rodents now live in the back and have eaten most of the seats. Needs 
new rear crossmember and patching. Has tropical roof, kodiack heater, winch 
and overdrive. All tyres are flat and odd sizes, tank has a leak. Brakes / 
clutch are probably gone after standing for so long.

What do you lot think ? Is it a deal for $750  ? I expect that another 
$1500-$2000 will put it in good running order, new seats, crossmember, brakes 
etc.

Having only lived with a SIII 88" and a Range Rover, what can I expect living 
with a 109 ???? 

Mark 

Mark

  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 10:57:03 PDT
From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: Re: Rick Larson's deal of the Century!

>In a message dated 95-07-26 04:42:18 EDT, you write:
>> > -Rick
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>higher. Do you have the very very rare rubber floormats? (those are worth
>about 20grand a piece...)

Yea, I have the rubber floormats, thanks for the info, given the the serious
inquiries I've been receiving I have decided to hold out for a bit longer
and see how far prices will rise.
 
Yes, this is(was) an attempt at humor.  The last D90 in America thread was 
starting to get old, IMHO, and sightings of ads for greatly over priced, much
less than rare, LR's provided inspiration.  Guess you had to be there.

It should be noted that various makes of "old" cars, from time to time,
become "trendy" in the US and prices skyrocket.   Of course, as the next
trend comes up prices crash just as hard.   Since I've been watching the
market it has happened to Corvettes, Porches, any sixties muscle car, AC
Cobras, Ferrari's, 60's Mustangs and I'm sure a couple more.  I seriously
hope this doesn't happen to LR's. It usually prices out the people who
care and generally leads to a  bunch of quick cosmetic restorations and 
fakes.  (I've heard there are now more Red 427 Tripower '67 Corvettes on the
road than Chevy made.)  Interestingly enough, this seems to happen when
the manufacture of a  given model doesn't offer a product people most people
judge as better than the "classic" version.     

It should also be noted that the local LR dealer has TWO black '95 D90's
setting on his lot, unsold.

-Rick  

Richard Larson
LSI Logic Corporation
(408) 433-7149

------------------------------

From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 14:53:12 EST
Subject: Re[2]: Living with a S.II 109 ...

... is the ultimate form of Rover Ownerdom!!! (IMHO)

There are faster, quieter, more comfortable, more powerful, blah, blah, blah, 
Rovers to be sure, but if NASA put an image of a Land-Rover on the Voyager probe
for alien intelligence to look at some day, it would *have* to be a Ser 2 109.

Of course the fact that I have one in no way prejudices me in this regard.  ;-)

I guess $1.5-2K gets you good running order, maybe not the rest.

Enjoy,
Hank (Admitted LWB Series 2 snob)

P.S.
There might be something to the legend that all other things being equal, a 109 
is faster than an 88.  When Lockheed stretched the F-80 into a T-33, it got 
faster, though it was heavier and had same power.  Same is true of other 
stretched acft.  Perhaps someone should compare the 88 and 109 in a windtunnel 
as part of their Master's, assuming you could keep airspeed low enough to be 
realistic.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * *

All, 

I have been offered a 109 SIIA $750. Its been standing for at least 4 years. 
It's complete, broken glass on rear door, engine has been rebuilt, who knows 
when ! Rodents now live in the back and have eaten most of the seats. Needs 
new rear crossmember and patching. Has tropical roof, kodiack heater, winch 
and overdrive. All tyres are flat and odd sizes, tank has a leak. Brakes / 
clutch are probably gone after standing for so long.

What do you lot think ? Is it a deal for $750  ? I expect that another 
$1500-$2000 will put it in good running order, new seats, crossmember, brakes 
etc.

Having only lived with a SIII 88" and a Range Rover, what can I expect living 
with a 109 ???? 

Mark 

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 21:02:32 +0059 (BST)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Aerodynamics?

I suspect there could be something to the aerodynamic logic, but the size 
of the tires gives it a higher final drive as well...

The aerodynamic argument reminds me of a Road and Track test putting a 
Porsche 930 turbo and the all new singing and dancing Corvette (this must 
have been about '86) head to head. They were both quick, and they both 
could treble the U.S. national speed limit at the time (or nearly). Out 
of interest, they had one draft the other at top speed (don't try it at 
home kiddies), and the combined top speed was higher than either alone...

It makes sense that the car behind would do better, but the one up front 
benefits from something behind to break the turbulance it creates.

I wouldn't want to try it in a pair of 109's.....

Charlie

Still wibbling: the Jaguar XJS 'estate' conversion had a higher top speed 
than the stock XJS too (no fiddling with the engine).

cw

C. R. Wright                                    Dept. of Genetics
+44 (0)1223 333970 telephone                    Univ. of Cambridge
+44 (0)1223 333992 telefax                      Downing Street, Cambs.
cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk                        CB2 3EH, England

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 21:46:46 PDT
From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
Subject: Running in

Last week somebody mailed asking about running in a Turner engine.  I'm 
sorry, but I lost the message.

I do recall that the correspondent was interested in a 2.5 4 cylinder petrol. 
 My engine is a 2.25 litre.  Initially I filled it with the running-in oil 
supplied by Turners, draining this at 500 miles, replacing the filter and 
filling with 20w/50 oil as recommended in the owner's handbook for the UK 
climate.  Later versions suggest using 15/50, but I prefer to use the 
original specification.

For running in I followed the instructions contained in the handbook, these 
are:

"Progressive running-in of your new Land Rover is important and has a direct 
bearing on durability and smooth running throughout its life.

The most important point is not to hold the vehicle on large throttle 
openings for any sustained period.

To start with the maximum speed should be 35 to 40 mph (55 to 65 kph) on a 
light throttle and this may be progressively increased over the first 1,500 
miles (2,500 km)."

I suspect that being of a later design the 2.5 litre engine may require a 
lower viscosity oli and the running in instructions may not be so severe.

I hope this helps. 
-------------------------------------
Tony Chapman             E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
HAWTEC                   Tel:    01905 723200
Haswell House            Fax:    01905 613338 
St. Nicholas Street      Mobile: 0973 316835
Worcester
WR1 1UW

Date: 04/22/95
Time: 09:26:25

This message was sent by Chameleon 
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

Subject: Re: newbie stupid questions 
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:27:18 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

Jan Ben wrote:

> I. Importing why's:
> 1. if 500 D110 came over in '93, can anyone import a '93 from UK?

	No.  The '92 D110s that came in were specially built for the US market.
A UK D110 was never tested by the US DOT and hence not legal.

> 2.  what is involved in federalizing an 80-90 LR?

	I dunno.  A lot of red tape.  I heard of a fellow who brought in a 
Camel Trophy Defender and spent over a year getting it out of customs.  The
latest I heard is that he still hasn't gotten it road legal in California.

> 3. do you know of any loopholes (I thought that at one point anyone could
> 			bring over anything for pers.use once in 10yrs.?)

	This hole was plugged a few (5 maybe) years ago.  It seems that too
many people were bringing over BMWs in this mannor.  Enough that it was 
effecting BMW sales in the US.  BMW complained and the hole was plugged
There are rumors that the US recently passed a 25 year rule similar to
Canada's 10 year rule, but I haven't heard any comfirmation.

> 4. if SII were imported upto '68, why do I see '70 gas models here in US.

	SIIA 88s were imported until 1971.  SIII 88s were imported until 1974.
The last 109s were imported in 1967 and were NADA models.

> 5.  Is importing from Canada as complicated as from the UK?

	No.  If it's older than 10 years, the vehicle is legal to import.
  
> 2. If Rover V8 was available on some LR, why do I need a kit to install it
>   in SII/III ? Does Buick-Olds 215/?/? have the same bolt pattern?

	If you drop in a V8, you may want to consider installing stronger
tranny, transferbox, and diffs.

Ben
----------------
 Benjamin Smith
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake
 bens@vislab.navy.mil
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88
3
2
1

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:33:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Panhard Rods

The good book saith 65 ft lbs from memory, for the panhard rod bolts, but 
I find they need more. No, you don't have to remove anything else.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89 RR
 

------------------------------

From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 14:43:23 PDT
Subject: Re: Miscellany

Re: crumple zones - there aren't any visible *notches* or *perforations* in 
the Disco front chassis - the gauge of the steel has been reduced there and 
increased beginning where it passes over the axle housing.

Re: Brush bars - new for `96 will be polyurethane over steel wraparound brush 
bar for DISCO - very similar to the one on the 4.0SE now. This primarily an 
attempt to placate the European authorities who are trying to ban them 
outright. Apparently the *softies* are EC-legitimate. 

Re: Anyone's D90 steering *groan* when cranking the wheel hard left? Caused by 
steering pipe resonance - warranty fix is available w/modified piping - take 
it to your dealer.

Re: Anyone's D90 safari cage rubber coating cracked or cracking? Apparently a 
batch of them was used in production with improper material. Warranty will 
again take care of this  if you take it in and complain. Replacements with 
correct specification available.

Re: Prices for used Rovers. As always, supply and demand. If there is anyone 
out there who will actually pay $52000 for a D110, then they will continue to 
be offered at bizarro prices like that. In our area, most used 110s have been 
fetching 39000 - 42000 depending on mileage. Still a pretty good return for an 
automobile! Clean 88 Ser 2 pickup recently went for $12000. Basic runner `74 
Ser 3 for $5000. 

Re: Prices for new Rovers. I read with interest the Disco buying experiences 
of one fellow at his local dealer. As far as Discos are concerned, the demand 
has increased over 1994 but the supply has increased thanks to LR shorting 
some of their *less lucrative* markets. Just over 6000 Discos for `94 and 
target for `95 is 12000. A lot by LR standards but a drop in the bucket for 
Ford (400,000 Explorers) and Jeep (375,000 G. Cherokees)! Range Rover 4.0SE 
virtually sold out (only 5000 brought in for `95). Classic can be found in 
stock generally but total `95 US production only about 1900. D90s (at least in 
our area) are selling as fast as we can get them in. The *way of the dinosaur* 
syndrome beginning to make its impact felt. The timing of the Station Wagons 
(D90 SW) logically will coincide with the onslaught of the cooler weather this 
Fall. Point? All things being equal, the purchase of any new Land Rover will 
still return a higher percentage of the purchase price at retail resale over 
that of any other 4x4 - especially Japanese makes. Look for glut of off-lease 
`93 G. Cherokee and Explorer models to flood market during next year and 
severly impact trade values for those models - this coupled with 
manufacturer's incentives to help move new ones - which have in true Detroit 
fashion - been overproduced. I think that its a safe bet that there are 12000 
Disco buyers in North America!! Exceptions to non-Land Rover product is the 
Chev/GMC Suburban and Toyo LC. Worst (again in our market basket - Boston) on 
resale are Mitsubishi Montero, Isuzu Trooper, Nissan Pathfinder. Absolutely 
awful! Believe it or not, Jeep Wrangler w/6-cyl is reasonably strong on 
wholesale trade (as a percentage) due to lack of this engine in new models. 
Two-door Explorers nee-Mazda Navajo are terrible at resale as well. Just 
thought that you'd be interested in my observations since the end of the 
winter season. As a parting observation. In two years of selling D90, we have 
only had ONE traded back in. Also, we have had only ONE Disco back - it was on 
the lot for two days.

cheerz
Jim - now completely mad... and loving it!

`67 2A 88 5.0L Hybrid
`67 2A 109 5.0L Hybrid
`68 2B 110 F/C Diesel
`70 P6B 3500S
`90 Range Rover County
`93 D110
`95 D90

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 21:21:58 PDT
From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
Subject: RE: Uneven Tyre Wear 

Uneven tyre wear can be caused by quite a number of things.  Before having 
your track checked you should thoroughly check the steering and front 
suspension including:

all 6 ball joints
upper & lower swivel pins
wheel bearings
dampers
steering idler
adjustment of steering box

Then it is worth having the track checked! Tracking is a 3,000 mile service 
item and should be checked anyway, but all the above could cause uneven tyre 
wear and/or their repair/replacement could throw out the adjustment.

In order to check track you need both a tracking gauge (Dunlop version cost 
about 200 ten years ago) and an area of flat ground.  Its therefore not 
really a job most people can undertake themselves.  If you have freewheel 
hubs you may have difficulty finding somewhere that can check the track since 
most gauges will not fit over the hubs.  I take my SIIA to the local Land 
Rover dealership (expensive-20); it's fortunate that it has a Land Rover 
badge otherwise I don't think they'd know what it was!

Another thing, do you rotate your tyres every 3,000 miles? This is again a 
service item.  It is regarded as "old hat" these days but of course the 
series Land Rover is an old fashioned vehicle, particularly if fitted with 
cross-ply tyres.  The official Land Rover manual cites failure to rotate the 
tyres as a possible cause of uneven wear.

I have had problems recently with uneven tyre wear and thoroughly overhauled 
the front suspension.  I didn't rotate my tyres but shall do from now on!

I wonder if we saw one another at Billing? I was there on Sunday.  If you saw 
 someone late 30's, glasses, bad sunburn and lugging a pair of heated screens 
around that was me!
-------------------------------------
Tony Chapman             E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
HAWTEC                   Tel:    01905 723200
Haswell House            Fax:    01905 613338 
St. Nicholas Street      Mobile: 0973 316835
Worcester
WR1 1UW

Date: 04/22/95
Time: 09:26:25

This message was sent by Chameleon 
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 18:48:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Francis J. Twarog" <ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: Roof rack for 88"

	I was wondering what experiences people have had with putting 
roof racks on 88" LRs - I had a Thule high-foot for a while, but sold it 
with the intent of buying a full-length w/ladder type.  Anyone own (or 
see) companies other than Brownchurch that make them for less than $600?  
Even better, does anyone in the New England area have one for sale?!  
Frank Twarog
Boston, USA

BTW - new Buffett alblum's only one week away :)

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date:          Wed, 26 Jul 1995 18:12:15 GMT -0600
Subject:       Re: Topics of list

> Oh dear,Tom.And there I was thinking *someone* would get round
> to fully armed Pink Panthers eventually.Humph!
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> Cheers
> Mike Rooth
But Mike,
The Pink Panther is a Land Rover.
Or are you talking about Peter Sellers? :-)
Tom

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 20:13:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: newbie stupid questions 

On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote:

> There are rumors that the US recently passed a 25 year rule similar to
> Canada's 10 year rule, but I haven't heard any comfirmation.

	It is a 15 year rule in Canada.  There are loopholes, but we are
	not mining companies or the military either.

> > 4. if SII were imported upto '68, why do I see '70 gas models here in US.
> 	SIIA 88s were imported until 1971.  SIII 88s were imported until 1974.
> The last 109s were imported in 1967 and were NADA models.
	
	109 lasted longer in Canada, but not much more.  '68's being sold
	in '69.  Interesting as they have the solex, yet the full crankcase
	recirculation that appeared on the III's.  (Have one actually...
	:-))

> > 5.  Is importing from Canada as complicated as from the UK?
> 	No.  If it's older than 10 years, the vehicle is legal to import.

	15 years, but it can be anything...

> > 2. If Rover V8 was available on some LR, why do I need a kit to install it
> >   in SII/III ? Does Buick-Olds 215/?/? have the same bolt pattern?

	Mounts move, all sorts of stuff changes.  Why can't you drop that
	1976 Jeep straight 6 into a 1995 Wagoneer?  Never that easy...

	Rgds,

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 18:57:13 PDT
From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
Subject: RE: Vacuum hoses on a '74? Where do they GO? 

I have a copy of the Series III parts book.  This shows three alternative 
arrangements. The most probable relates to "Engines prefixed 901 to 904 
suffix E onwards and 36118817A onward".  This shows a single hose from a 
connection on the carburettor/manifold adapter, running to a tee piece.  From 
this one hose runs to the rigid section of the air intake tubing and the 
other apparently to the breather on the rocker cover. This arrangement does 
not employ the more common side filler arrangement.

To identify the correct arrangement I need to know:

engine number
is engine "European detoxed"?

I can also supply part numbers if necessary.
-------------------------------------
Tony Chapman             E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk
HAWTEC                   Tel:    01905 723200
Haswell House            Fax:    01905 613338 
St. Nicholas Street      Mobile: 0973 316835
Worcester
WR1 1UW

Date: 04/22/95
Time: 09:26:25

This message was sent by Chameleon 
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:05:45 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Alan's hosed...

Alan Richer writes with problems hooking up hoses on a Series III.  
Ahh...grasshopper, when you can snatch the pebble from my hand, it will be 
time to go....

The line from the oil fill tube goes to the PCV valve, which in turn dumps 
into a fitting at the base of the carb.  The *Big Pipe* on the triple tap 
goes to the brake servo, and the line from the distributor to another port 
on the carb base.  The two smaller fittings on the triple tap used to go to 
kickdown and poppet valves on the 36IVE carb - kinda a little pot hung off 
to one side - and I got rid of it at the first rebuild.  On mine, one is 
blocked off while the other makes a handy attachment for a manifold vacuum 
guage.  Cheers.
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 00:12:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" <swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu>
Subject: Alan Richer!  where are you?

All,
Sorry for the waste of list space,  But I got some mail from Alan and 
need to get back in contact with him...If anyone sees hears or types him, 
please let him know I am looking for him....

Howdy Alan,
Congrats on your petrol conversion...I am glad everything went okay!
As far as the frame work goes, I am replacing the rear frame half from 
the transmission crossbeam back.  I ran into a guy in Seminole, FL called 
Jim 
Cartier who is very sympathetic to newbies and rover restorations...He 
has a shop with at least five trucks in it at all times.  He got the 
frame half for me off of a scrap 88 and was saving it for his 109 PU.  He 
sold it to me for $225, and his brother is going to Jig it, weld it, and 
patch the frame in a few places forward for another $200.  

If you would like Jim's number (his company is called Seminole Rovers, 
and he imports parts as cheap as you will find them) let me know.  

Unfortunately, the fate of Moose is yet to be seen. Right now I have it 
down to a rolling chassis with Engine and Bulkhead in place.  I want to 
replace the III bulkhead with a II/IIa (metal dash) and do some other 
little things.  (this is where the diesel conversion comes in...) 
However, Someone recently announced a rover for sale on the net that is 
exactly what I want, almost to the T.  If things work out, I will be 
looking for a buyer for Moose either restored or in pieces to raise the 
money needed for the new truck.

Will your diesel fit in a Series I?

If you like, you can fax me the pictures.  You will have to call first as 
my voice # and fax # are the same at work.  That # is (813) 253-0905 
(NuClear Sails).  I will be going on vacation friday, so if you like, fax 
it to me tomorrow and I will get back to you ASAP on it.  Call me 
tomorrow (Thursday) If you get the chance and we'll chat...
Until then:  Happy Rovering and glad to hear you got yours back together....
cya
steve

	_________________________________
	|_______|_______|_______|_______|	"Moose"
	|   ____________    |	   |	\\	'73 III 88"
	|  /  	  |	\   |  	   |	 \\      ________
     	|  |	  |	|   |	   |	  \\    |        |
	|  \______|_____/   |______|_______\\___|________|__
	|___________________|_______________|---------------\
	|  []    []    []   |		    | 0		    |)
	|                   |--]	    |               |		
       _|    /	 OOOOO      |		    |      OOOOO    |__
      |_|____I OO o o OO ___|_______________|___ OO o o OO ____|
	   0  OO o 0 o OO			OO o 0 o OO
	       OO  o  OO     "Tread Lightly"     OO  o  OO
              	 OOOOO				   OOOOO
       		           Florida Rover Canvas
	Steve Swiger   
	swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu
	(813) 980-1013
	(813) 253-0905 (Work)

------------------------------

Subject: tryre size and speedos
From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 21:13:27 -0500

Whe changing a Land Rover from 15 rims to 16 rims with respective tyres 
to boot how does one go about recalibrating the speedo.

I realise that the size of the new tyre would need to be known ,but what 
I after is how do you recalibrate it?

Is a rolling road the answer?

Robin

--
Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. |  Ottawa Valley Land Rovers

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 01:25:03 -0500
From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner)
Subject: Gearbox leaking again!

Well it didn't take long, less than a thousand miles since the complete
replacement of all seals and gaskets on the gearbox, and the rear oil seal
is leaking once again.

Seemed like the transmission brake was slipping, checked it today and sure
enough the new shoes are soaking in synthetic gear oil. Seems to be the
only leak though, so I guess it could be worse. When I have more time I
will try again!

Has anybody managed to stop the rear oil seal from leaking? (Other than
draining all the oil out of the gearbox) :-)

Richard

------------------------------

Subject: Re: tryre size and speedos 
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:38:02 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil>

In message <199507270502.AAA28221@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote:
  
> Whe changing a Land Rover from 15 rims to 16 rims with respective tyres 
> to boot how does one go about recalibrating the speedo.

	There is a separate speedo for 16 inch tyres.  
  
> I realise that the size of the new tyre would need to be known ,but what 
> I after is how do you recalibrate it?

	The speedo cable directly runs off of a gear in the transmission.  So
larger tyres means less tranny rpms, which means that the the cable spins
slower.  The way the speedo works is that the spinning center of the cable
spins a magnet.  The speedo needle is attached to a spring and some other
magnets.  The spinning magnet from the speedo cable creates a magnetic
field.  The needle moves until the force from the spring (and the ever
present friction) is equal to the force from the field on the needle magnets.  
So in order to convert a 15in tyre speedo to a 16in speedo, you would have to 
change the needle spring for one of a different spring constant.  The second 
that you remove the needle from the spring, however, you loose your calibration
(which is why mine underreads by about 3 to 5 mph).  Knowing that number of
revolutions/minute equals a certain speed, I assume once you got your new 
spring, you could set up an electric motor (with a pot (variable resistance 
resistor) on the power lead) to the right rpms,  simulating a certain speed.
>From there you just keep adusting the needle position until you calibrated.

	The odometer isn't as inaccurate as spinning magnets.  The incoming
spinning speedo cable is attached to a gear(s) which spins the counter.
Replacing a single gear with another of the proper number of teeth should
do the job. 
  
Ben

----------------
 Benjamin Smith
 Science Applications International Corporation
 Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake
 bens@vislab.navy.mil
3
2
1
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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