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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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Date: 19 Jun 95 04:34:04 EDT
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: Going places

This weekend I was at the annual gathering of the 'Sahara Club' in which
desert freaks of all denominations are organized.  They're not committed to
any particular sort of vehicle, you get all kinds - from desert-crossing
bicyclists (imagine...) to owners of fully loaded $ 800,000 MAN 8x8 based
rigs.  These guys will make appointments like "...hey, first weekend of
October let's get together at Waw el-Kebir and have a good time" (Waw el-Kebir
being situated in Central Libya...). What always strikes me is that *very
few* of them drive Land Rovers. And when talk comes to the choice of vehicle
they'll often poke remarks at us like "...you Land Rover owners are so
preoccupied with keeping your beasts on the road and fiddling around with it,
you hardly ever have time or money left to actually use them for something
sensible, like *travelling* ... all you ever get around to is wallowing in
some mud hole, preferably close by so you always can get a quick tow back
home..." Much as I hate to, I must admit that they might have a point there.
At least in Europe, most LR owners keep their rigs as full-time hobbies,
spending more time in the driveway and under the car, than actually driving
and doing what automobility is all about: Going places!

Stefan

------------------------------

From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Going places
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 95 11:10:43 BST

Hmmm....yes...well,most of us have to *work* for a
living.Tends to be a bit time consuming.Annoying,
but there it is.
Of course all aid agencies instantly recognise the
MAN 8X8 truck,and dont know a Land Rover from a
baobab tree,do they.   
You could have tried asking them how *old* the rigs
they use are and how much they cost.
Still,if it turns them on,and they're out of *my* way,
why should *I* care?

Cheers

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Mr Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Mon, 19 Jun 1995 11:49:05 +0000
Subject:       Re: Land Rover Security ?????

> > > Has anyone any tips on how to make the vehicle more secure as regards 
> > > entry?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> > someone breaking into the car. 
> I agree completely.  I never lock my car doors.  Why pay for a broken window?
It's sad to say, but last Thursday night/Friday morning, some person (of 
unknow parentage, dubious personal habits and a potentially short 
lifespan) had a go at Lucas.

The doors were unlocked (though there is a bar-thingy through the steering 
wheel) and a few things were visible in the dashboard.

What did they nick? Both bl**dy side lights. They didn't need one - BOTH!
Now, who needs *two* landrover sidelights?

p*ssed off...

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)        +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. 
WWW sites: Work -- <http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/>      
       Personal -- <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

------------------------------

Subject: 109 chassis number location
From: paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 20:53:20 +1000

Help!

My new (well, in a manner of speaking) 109 is stranded at the Previous
Owner's premises because the PO and the licensing authorities can't 
find the chassis number, so he can't get it registered, so I can't 
spend a day travelling out to Binalong to fetch it.

In South Africa, _all_ cars had a chassis number stamped onto the near-
side front of the chassis (passenger side dumb-iron).  This one isn't
there (according to the Powers That Be at the licensing dept), and 
no-one seems to know where to look.

Any ideas would be _most_ welcome, especially from Australian owners
(in case the Ozzies put the numbers on upside-down or something).
The car was made in 1976 (or thereabouts), and is a 109 5-door.
Suggestions from the Haynes manual is the off-side front spring hanger;
the Feds reckon that the near-side _rear_ is the place to look, while 
the Land-Rover agents tell us that the number is next to the steering
box.  Maybe I should start a lottery :-)

	paul
--
   Paul Nash <paul@frcs.alt.za>       turbo-nerd & all-round nice guy
       14/114 Blamey Cres, Campbell, Canberra ACT 2601, AUSTRALIA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 13:21:54 +0200
From: dbeers@eu.wang.com (David Beers)
Subject: Re: Going places

Interesting observation.  I have noticed a similar trend occurring with 
so-called "mountain bikes".  The vast majority of them are used for relaxed 
cruising on surfaced roads, even though they are designed to withstand 
punishing treatment offroad, and thus weigh a few kilos more (and cost a 
bundle more!) than is necessary in most cases.  In any case, if a Land Rover 
satisfies your urge to wallow in mud, or to get your hands greasy, or to 
explore exotic locations, then I say it can cater to a wide public.  In 
addition, Land Rovers are cheaper per kilo than mountain bikes!

What I find attractive in Land Rovers is the do-it-yourself potential, 
combined with the fantasy of one day quitting my job, slapping the ol' 
surfboard on the roof rack, and driving down along the coast of Africa 
looking for waves!

-David
1989 Land Rover 90 TD Hard Top
1992 Anlen 8000 DX aluminum (of course!) mountain bike

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 12:37:25 +0100
From: Dave White <davew@landie.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: bleeding brakes

>From: David John Place <umplace@cc.UManitoba.CA>

>Did anyone catch the Shade Tree Mechanic program today?  They showed a 
>very nice brake bleeding tool that uses the air compressor to bleed the 
>brakes all from one corner of the vehicle.  The price of $175

I use a product called the "Eezi bleed" from Gunsons. It is manufactured in
the UK and costs around 15 pounds sterling. It probably uses a similar principal
to the product you mention but uses tyre/tire pressure at 20 p.s.i. (max).

I have used mine for a couple of years now on Land Rovers, Range Rovers and
some dubious Japanese manufacturers products that I daren't mention on
this list...

The last system I bled with it was a Range-Rover dual circuit system. It
took around 15 minutes to successfully bleed (including the time it took to
remove
the front road wheels) without any assistance. I would recommend it to anyone.

ONE caveat:
1) The seal in the top of the reservoir bottle seems to have an adverse reaction
to brake fluid !!! A "slight" design fault that leads me to wash the unit out
with water after each use.

If the product is not available in your area it could probably be "home made"
fairly easily from readily available parts.

I can describe how the system works if anyone is interested...

Dave W
'72 V8 SWB SIII

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 22:52:57 +1000
From: Lloyd Allison <lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au>
Subject: aluminium paint

I have squirreled the paint stuff info' away in
http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/LRO/

and I have a suggestion:
   would anyone with a good graphics terminal
   and with a * good eye *  feel like doing a colour-chart
   of common Land-Rover colours?
   Ok, it would not be totally reliable because of differences
   in computer screens, but it might be useful.
   Alternatively I can snip bits out of various Land-Rover
   images - which lets scanner differences in, ... but if
   the images are of old LRs, the colours will be
   realistically faded, which is a bonus.

Any thoughts?

Lloyd

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 09:03:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Engine paint color??

It's time to paint my newly rebuilt engine and I was wondering if anyone 
knew what the original color  code was?  The only thing I have been able 
to find is "Detroit Diesel Alpine Green #225"  Is this convertable to a 
Du Pont or PPG color code??  I hope someone has the answer...

cheers
Russ

------------------------------

From: kessels.bill=40ott01=40c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 95 15:06:00 UTC
Subject: re: battery switch/LR Securit

(LAN Addressees) LRO submissions
 
I've seen a neat switch advertised in LRO--when it is switched off and the key
removed, a small amount of current still goes through a low-amp fuse to keep
any clocks or theft-deterrent radios going so you don't have to enter the code
when you start it up.  If someone tries to hot wire it, the current from the
starter blows the fuse and the vehicle is rendered inoperable.
 
In general, though, I have learned it does not make sense to lock the
doors--let the scumbags come in and see there is nothing to steal for
themselves (plus it just triggers my alarm that much sooner).
 
Bill Kessels
kesselsb@ey.geis.com
94 D90

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re:Engine rebuilds: Any gotchas? (fwd)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 15:10:21 UNDEFINED

>ps. Has anyone out there used the replacement timing gears advertised 
>in the L/R Owner Digest instead of a timing chain. I'm very intrigued 
>by them as I find gears to be more reliable generally.

Got it done to my 2.5 n/a deisel when teh timing belt was due for replacement. 
Timimg belts tend to snap wya before teh replacement interbval with an 
unacceptable frequency. Particulalry sinmce teh engine is and interference 
engine..........So, I figured I'd pretty much break even if I kept the vehicle 
for teh rest of my life, but I'd never have to worry about belt failure.

\I would agree about reliability, although a chain running in oil is lower
\friction than most gears (more friction loss in BMW's shaft-driven
\motorcycles than in a closed chain), they do stretch and can break (same in
\motorcycles). 

I'd not have bothered if I had a chain instead of a belt. Belts snap without 
warning.Chains rattle first, so you can replace em before trashing your 
engine.

\I have heard good things about the gears, but I suspect that the expense 
\involved is such that you could buy and change (yourself) several timing 
\chains over the years before the gears are econmical.

Yes. I reckon you'd break even at about 200k. But the reliability compared to 
a belt is a big plus, considering teh number of car in the local garage with 
trashed top ends di\ue to belt failure at as low as 10k!!! It only takes one 
seal leak, putting one drop of oil on the belt to make it skip and trash your 
valves and pistons. Belts are an abomination!

\Other comments I've heard pointed out that the slop in the drive gear for 
\the injection pump (in 2.25 diesel = my particular case) is such that any 
\additional precision of the gears is wasted... On a petrol, it might be 
\nice, though.  Mostly they are very slick from an engineering point of 
\view and they have a certain 'go-faster' value, sort of like chrome 
\air-cleaners ('cept you can't see 'em)

Speaking for the 2.5, it now runs very clean. The emissions tester said it was 
the cleanest Landrover he'd ever tested.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Land Rover Security  ?????
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 16:22:42 UNDEFINED

> Has anyone any tips on how to make the vehicle more secure as regards 
> entry?
\In my opinion, locking the car just means that the thief will do more 
\damage - if the car has no visible radio then there is less chance of 
\someone breaking into the car. 

The trick is to stop em wanting to come in,

The plods left a few cars about in London, unlocked. They all got nicked 
except for teh ones with a box with a Radioactive sticker on it left on the 
front seats.

I go with the Biohazard bag full of old bandages, bits of cotton wool, and 
red paint..........And teh top coming loose.........

Also, a plod tod me that a good way to theifproof your car (and to park it in 
illegal places) was to lay a cloth across one of teh seats and spread out on 
it some oily bits of engine and a crescent wrench, along with a note in teh 
windscreen saying "Gone for spares - will move as soon as possible"

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA>
Subject: FW: Brake Fluids
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 95 11:57:00 DST

 ----------
From: Easton Trevor
Subject: Re: Brake Fluids
Date: Monday, June 19, 1995 10:26AM

Thanks for you reply
 ----------
|From: vortex
|To: Easton Trevor
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
|Date: Sunday, June 18, 1995 4:04PM
|1. I know a guy who had been driving his classic car (an MGB, in this case) 

|    during his holiday. The brake fluid had  been changed to silicone.
|    At some time, he lost some of the the brake fluid (there was a leak
|    somewhere).
|    So, be prepared to expect trouble then (or, take a spare can with 
|Date: Sunday, June 18, 1995 4:04PM
you...).
|2. As far as I have understood, there is not a *single* car manufacturer
|    who has approved the use of silicone based brake liquids.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
|    It is just that car manufacturers tend to be VERY careful in examining
|    every  product for their application.

|(I'm really looking forward to that moment, however. Advantages of the 
stuff
|are, that it is not inflammable and that is not hygroscopic.)
|Any comments?
|    somewhere).
|    So, be prepared to expect trouble then (or, take a spare can with 
I went ahead and changed the fluid this weekend as I had several positive 
comments.
I will take note of your comments and carry a spare bottle in case I develop 
a leak.
Some points of note during the change:-
Recommended method was to totally flush by stripping wheel cylinders and 
blowing lines clear with compressed air.
In this process I found both rear wheel cylinders were seized, the passenger 
side leading shoe and the drivers side both shoes. Miss Golightly had all 
new brake cylinders during the rebuild three years ago. So much for 
longevity! It looked like water had bypassed the outer seal and corroded the 
piston. (I do wash brakes after immersion to clear silt, but how far can one 
go. Total strip?) All the seals were in good condition, so I assembled 
everything with Dow Corning 111 silicone grease, bled using 20psi from 
compressor into top of reservoir, adjusted and drove away. Brakes seem 
better than ever with firm pedal and even stopping with no pulling to side.

WRT manufacturers endorsement. Glycol fluids work OK for quite a while and 
many manufacturers (Volvo, VW etc) recommend a flush and refill every two 
years. If they used silicone it would be more costly initially and they 
would not have the repeat business for service departments. The same thing 
applies to PTFE additives.   Or am I just being cynical.

 I do know one user of Slick 50 who, after shooting (?) a hole in his Land 
Rover block, drove ten miles out of the bush with no oil pressure and after 
getting the vehicle home welded up the hole and everything appears no worst 
for the experience. Personally I use Slick 50 in all my vehicles.
|are, that it is not inflammable and that is not hygroscopic.)

------------------------------

From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: 	The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 16:40:41 UNDEFINED

>In terms of theft of vehicle, I have a battery switch with an "off" position, 
>and it can be locked in that position.  I can also switch the fuel switch to 
>the nuetral position.  And then there's the steering wheel lock, etc.  

My 90 2.5 n/a deisel has a bonnet lock (which can only be opened with a key 
from teh outside), so I just wired in a switch in series with teh stop 
solenoid. Theif  breaks in, cant start engine. Cant easily get under bonnet, 
and doesnt want to waste lots of time and draw lots of attention to himself 
trying to start what might be a knackered engine anyway, so he goes and steals 
someone elses lorry.

Tho God alone knows why anyone would try to steal a landrover deisel........

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway
+++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

From: Andrew Grafton <A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: LR Security
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 95 18:24:10 BST

I remove the steering wheel and take it with me or 
hide it behind the spare wheel when leaving the 
beastie in a risky area for extended periods of time.

A bare-looking interior would also seem to discourage
thieves, and I've got a shackle and lock holding the
bonnet down (SIII).

I leave the doors unlocked but try to park on the *flat*
because I am paranoid about people playing the 
'let's take this Landrover out of gear and let the
handbrake off for a laff' game.  Said activity used
to be popular in London a few years back.

The last petrol LR I posessed had a dual tank system with 
3rd (off) position for the changeover valve.  Allowed you to 
get 50 yards before lack of fuel stopped it.  Lost count
of the number of times I drove off and forgot.  Seemed
like a great deterrent as the thing made loads of noise
starting up and then kangarooed to a stop, spluttering and
banging.  Any thief willing to have a second go sort of 
deserves to steal the car! 

Just my thoughts...

Andy
 

------------------------------

From: Frederick_O._Ellsworth@bcsmac.org (Frederick O. Ellsworth)
Subject: Steering Stabilizers
Date: 19 Jun 1995 17:52:22 GMT

Has anyone installed a steering stabilizer on a Series rover?  
I've got a '71 Series IIA  "88 with newer (2 year old)109 leaf springs all
around.  (Don't ask me why, a PO trick.)  The suspension is pretty darn stiff
and when I hit 50 yards of potholes at any speed the steering wheel jumps
around someting fierce. Its not so much an off-road problem as an around town
problem becuase I'm usually not going that fast off road, but it's a daily
commuter and I live in Boston.  'Nuff said there about the pothole problem.  
Anyway, I can't imagine this is good for the steering components, and I guess
the minor loss of control could be dangerous in some situations.  So how
about a steering stabilizer?  British Pacific has them for about $50,
including the mounting bracket.  Is it worth it?

Thanks for any input,
Fred

- via BulkRate 2.0

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jun 95 10:51:46 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: 5.0 hybred??

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: 5.0 hybred??
Jim,

Your post indicated a 5.0 hybred? Can you please elaborate? I have an 88
and a 109, 2.25 4 cyl, and would really like some more power. At least
for the 88. (That's the "war waggon-desert trashing-don't care if it
gets rolled or what ever fun truck.") Does this mean that you fit in a
5.0 V8? Im happen to have a 3.8 liter Turbo V6 from a buick (or
oldsmobile?) that I would like to use in the 88. (I doubt that I'd use
the turbo though.)

I have a few questions:
  Where can I get an adaptor for this? ("Scottys" maybe?)

  Will this kind of power break my trans-transfer case-axles-???

(Obviously, a lot of tire spin and such can break anything, but I'm
talking "normal use".)

Thanks in advance for all responses!

 #=====#         #========#          -------,___
 |___|__\___     |___|__|__\___      |--' |  |  \_|_
 | _ |   |_ |}   | _ |  |   |_ |}    |  _ |--+--|_  |
 "(_)""""(_)"    "(_)"""""""(_)"    ||_/_\___|__/_\_|}
                                       (_)      (_)
 1971 "88" IIa   1970 "109" IIa     1994 Discovery (for sale $30,500)
                                                   (Too hard to "draw")

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 22:38:38 +0200
From: vortex@worldaccess.nl (Bert Palte)
Subject: Re: 109 chassis number location

On June 19th, Paul Nash wrote:

>My new 109 is stranded at the Previous
>Owner's premises because the licensing authorities can't 
>find the chassis number.
*
My 1964  Ser IIa, definitely had *no* stamped number when I bought it,  
except on the manufacturers plate under the dashboard.
*
This never was a problem here, actually,  until an annual legal safety check
was introduced  here in 1985 or so, necessitating the presence  of  such a
number! 
So, I just hammered it in myself to avoid hassle with the authorities!
*
I strongly suspect that no B.L. cars  at all, at that time,  had stamped
numbers ex-works. 
My idea is that this simply was not done by B.L., if so,  perhaps only by
the importer.
*
Have seen many other (older) B.L. cars recently  and there is no uniformity in
location or 'font', so I guess it was most of the time a workshop job. 
*
My 'official' L.R. Parts Catalogue (issue Dec. 1968, page iv)  suggests that
the 
only location where the number can be found is on the manufacturers plate.
There is a similar comment  in  my M.G.B. workshop manual.
*
Hope that this comment may be of any help to you.
*
Greetings
Bert Palte

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jun 95 13:47:13 MST
From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV
Subject: Mazatzal trail report II

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
SUBJECT: Mazatzal trail report II
Well, I knew this was coming, so I didn't bother writing a trip report.
Yeah, that was me, in 2nd gear, letting the clutch out while going
??15-20 mph?? with the engine basically stopped. :( **BANG** then no
gears! No nothing! After some investigation, it was determined that the
clutch disintegrated. Pieces and flakes were coming out of the
inspection hole.

Explanation: (As I can recall) I was in 2nd, low range. This gear has a
LOUD whine when decelerating. (Trans needs rebuilt.) In trying not to
add undue wear to the failing 2nd gear by coasting down the hill, using
brakes, near the bottom of the hill, I released the clutch.

How humiliating! Un dignified! A "proper" English Rover being towed by a
Toyota! WAAAA! I must admit though, that little FJ40 (stock) did an
excellent job of pulling me all over the hillsides and back to town.
Total of around 50-70 miles in all.

Yeah, I bought lunch, and I owe a short pull strap to another friend (it
got slightly frayed, and was new when I started) but it's nothing
compared to being stranded 20 miles from the nearest paved road, and 50
or so miles from the nearest form of civilization! Scott, I still owe
you... big time! Thanks again!!

#=======#                Never doubt that a small group of individuals
|__|__|__\___            can change the world... indeed, it's the only
| _|  |   |_ |}          thing that ever has.
"(_)""""""(_)"                                          -Margaret Mead
*** Reply to note of 06/19/95 13:08
=========================================================================
   Mon, 19 Jun 95 13:08:22 MST
          id AA13822; Mon, 19 Jun 1995 13:08:49 -0700
(4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93)
	id AA28831 for debrown@srp.gov; Mon, 19 Jun 95 13:08:58 MST
(4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0)
	id AA18815; Mon, 19 Jun 95 13:08:56 MST
	(1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA24164; Mon, 19 Jun 95 15:12:03 -0500
From: Scott_Lindsey-RP0342@email.sps.mot.com
	id WT19572.106; Mon, 19 Jun 1995 15:11:58 CDT
Date: 19 Jun 95 15:08:50 -0600
        Doug_Hergatt-P24798@email.sps.mot.com (Receipt Notification Requested),
        Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu (Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Mazatzal trail report II

 Mazatzal trail report II
Well, I had my FJ40 back up in the Mazatzal mts, just a couple weeks after our
last little adventure. Sure, the trail was pretty much the same, but the
circumstances warrent another message!!
Review: Mazatzal mts are north of Phoenix about 40 miles, perhaps 10miles north
of Sunflower off of 87...

After about 75 dads and sons spent the Friday night with lots of food, fun, and
an inspiring message from Joe Fields, we horsed around and left for the 4wding
about 9am the following Saturday. The following vehicles were there
93? Jeep, lift and 31X10.5's
Two stock Troopers
One 1995 Ford 350 Crew Cab with duallees (what a beast!)
93 4Runner (stock)
1985 Landcruiser FJ60 (31X10.5's)
1971 Landrover Series II (stock except for 16X7.5's)
1970 FJ40 with top removed just 1 hour earlier at camp (boy is that sucker
heavy!). Also with no-name 235-15's that look like street tires!

Well, this trip was very similar to the one described in V4 Issue37 except for
the fact that each vehicle had at least two kids! The stop at the old Pine
Canyon Mine was exciting as we had to rope the 30 someodd kids down the cliff
to
see it (ages 4 to 15). This included my 8 yr old (Joshua) with a cast from knee
to toe on his right leg!! On the way there, the Ford 350 decided to turn around
(getting too tight) and the same old Doug "ding in crossmember" Hergatt (from
previous trip) in the 4runner had to stay back and change a tire. On the
continuation, no incidents until we reached "suicide hill." (Offroad route 201
for you locals) Actually, we were all waiting and we heard that Dave Brown in
his 1971 Landrover was dead in a saddle on the previous hill. It was decided
that Doug Hergatt (4Runner) and myself in the FJ would try to pull him 15 or so
miles back the way we came. We concluded that the clutch plate had exploded
when
he popped it out at the bottom of the hill (Dave, what gear was that you were
in???) so fixing it there at that time was out of the question. We attached two
tow lines together, doubling a long one around the FJ40 trailer hitch plate and
through the PTO winch hole in the LR frame. We put all the kids (and the one
wimpy Dad) in the 4Runner with Doug and had three 200+lb guys in the
landcruiser. Dave was driving his Landrover and Trevor (Dave's 15 yr old son)
was using a large stick in the back of the landcruiser to take up slack in the
tow strap when necessary. The first hill that we had to climb was one of the
toughest (maybe 25 to 35 degree incline, loose rocks, about 75 feet long)
hills.
Doug kept ahead far enough to stay out of our way but close enough to offer
assistance if needed. 2nd try resulted in successfully pulling him out. There
was a couple of other fairly challenging hills (at least pulling a 4000 lb
vehicle behind!) but the general formula of keeping the FJ geared as low as
possible, don't stop, and keeping the RPM's above 2000 got us through all of
the
spots!! After getting by the two cattle guards, the going got easier and I used
2nd and 3rd low to roll a little faster. In fact, toward the end, I was getting
cocky enough to take a little sideroad diversion up a little 7 foot, 40 degree
hill with a couple of hard turns through thick brush, dragging a dropped jaw
Dave and his crippled LR behind  :-). The only time we really had to stop was
when Doug got his second flat of the day!!! Both flats were punctured
sidewalls.
Don't buy Trailfinders! Even if they're on sale!. By the way, Doug used my
spare
for the second flat!!! We got back to camp around 3pm (by this time I was RED),
put the top back on, packed up, then went up to the road and gave Dave a tug
home the rest of the 50 or so miles.
Dave was nice enough to buy lunch when we got back into town.

Another exciting Father/son day campout!!!
******************************************************
                      _____________________          *
 1970 Landcruiser    /_____ ||_____________\         *
                     |      ||  |      ||   |        *
          ___________| \    ||  |______||__ | __     *
          |__________|/_\_ _||______________||\\|    *
        /_________   |    | /    _______    ||//|    *
       _/  _____  \  |_____/    / _____ \   ||\\|    *
    |==__ /  _  \__\___________/_/  _  \_\__| --     *
          | (_)  |              |  (_)  |            *
          \_____/                \_____/             *
                                                     *
* Scott Lindsey, Ph.D.                               *
* scott_lindsey@email.mot.com                        *
* Motorola INC, Sector Technologies                  *
* Tempe, AZ                                          *
*                                                    *
*       "..but it's a dry heat"                      *
******************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Kerner, Robert" <FORK0@smtp.ais.ucla.edu>
Subject: FW: Brake Fluid
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 95 16:00:00 PDT

I am just about to do a brake overhaul on my 1973 III 88.  I plan on putting 
silicone in.  I have been running silicone in my 1955 Morris Minor for the 
last 4 years and have had no problems with the brakes, except that I can't 
seem to stop an axel from leaking oil into one of the wheels, but that's not 
the silicones fault.  I was also under the impression that you could mix 
silicone with regular brake fluid, only you were wasting your money because 
the reason to go to silicone is that it does not absorb water, and by mixing 
it you lose that because the normal fluid still absorbs water.  I recently 
topped up my master cylinder  on the 88 with silicone(because that is all I 
had with me) and the rest of the fluid is normal brake fluid, and so far no 
problems.

 -Rob Kerner
fork0@smtp.ais.ucla.edu

------------------------------

From: Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
Subject: Re: 5.0 hybred??
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 95 9:24:43 EST

David Brown wrote:
>   Will this kind of power break my trans-transfer case-axles-???
> (Obviously, a lot of tire spin and such can break anything, but I'm
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> (Obviously, a lot of tire spin and such can break anything, but I'm
> talking "normal use".)

The transfer case is the least of your worries, as it is a very strong 
unit, I have heard that it can take three times the power and torque that 
it was designed to!!!  I read an article where someone out here in 
Australia fitted and F250 truck gearbox which gave him a first low of 
around 80:1, and a reverse low of around 105:1 !!!!  All of this going 
through the standard transfer case.

--
==============================================================================
Craig Murray                                    |       1955 Series 1 86"
LROC of Victoria Australia                      |       2.25 diesel 
LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia            |       My car is constipated,
email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au                   |       It has not passed a 

                                                |       thing all day!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 19:24:35 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Flushing Rovers

Trevor asks about flushing brake systems.  If you are going to switch over 
to silicone from Castrol/Girling fluid, the only real way to do it is to 
pull *all* the wheel cylinders.  You can get new cylinder piston seals, and 
American-made neoprene at that, for a pittance ($.50 apiece from any good 
brake shop).  On an 88, they're 1.25" front and 1.00" rear, I believe; 109's 
use a proprietary 'stepped' piston seal.  I disassembled the whole system, 
except for the drained master, and pumped a bottle of 95% isopropanol 
through the pipes...then removed the master and blew the lines dry with 
compressed air. The whole rebuild cost less than $22, not including the 
fluid at $7 a pint though.  A year or so later, the fluid remains clear and 
brakes are hard as a rock.

For those wanting to fit a brake booster rather than a dual system, Robert 
Davis has a superb setup...best brakes on a 109 I've ever seen....
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 19:24:48 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Silicone redux

Bert Palte wrote:
>As far as I understand, there is not *single* car manufacturer who has 
>approved the use of silicone based brake fluids.

>There still isn't *any* new car that uses this type of fluid.

How about Cadillac and Corvette, arguably the two priciest vehicles 
manufactured in the US?  Silicone's the OEM fluid for both.  (Maybe that's 
why it's so bloody expensive!)

>IMHO, these liquids should not be used as long as the two problems 
>indicated above have not been solved.

What problems?  Incompatibility?  Castrol LMA or Girling Crimson (if you 
remember back that far) are incompatible with *everything* as well.  And 
they're *glycol* or rather glycerine based as opposed to ethanol.  For me, 
I'll take the silicone...it isn't hygroscopic (a rear problem for those of 
us who live near the ocean or who venture deep into Ontario swamps) and it 
won't eat off your paint if you spill it.  True, you won't find silicone at 
every mom-and-pop roadside convenience store, but I always carry two spare 
pints of *wahtever* brake fluid I happen to be using.  Cheers.
      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |       Rover Owners' Association of Virginia         |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    804-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 804-622-7056     |
      *-----------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 19:36:10 -0400
From: Matt Neibaur <matt@jax.gttw.com>
Subject: Rover Envy

John R. Benham writes:

>    Yesterday, a colleague here at work gave me several video tapes.
One stood out since it had an African theme.  Yes, `Emanuelle in
Africa' does have some Rover scenes in it!  This 1991 fluff features a
green, 2-door, RHD, Range Rover with brush bar and roof rack.  Also
seen is a safari equipped 109 5-dr.  The 109 has red and yellow
diagonals painted on the rear quarter panels - typical of that for
Land Rovers in Kenya.  If you can put up with the no-plot, dubbed,
bad acting, you might see a few Rover scenes!  It is `R' rated for
aRlful!

---
Hello John & Rover group,

Allow me to introduce myself.  I'm Matt Neibaur, a new Discovery Land Rover
owner (one month), and a lurker on this forum.  Your post caught my
attention.  It seems that ever since I bought this car, my wife has been
acting "funny."  The other day we were at a restaurant, she was talking to
me, but I was gazing out the window at the Land Rover.  She noted my lack
of attention and cut the conversation short.  The next day I found a dent
on the passenger door.  Where did that come from I wondered?

After reading your post, it became clear to me; she did it - she was
jealous.  The tip off being this: anyone who sees 'Emanuelle in Africa' to
see the Land Rovers in action (not Emanuelle)  has the same bug.  I've
heard a lot of mechanical tips so far, how about a little help here?  Has
anyone had this problem come up before -  jealous spouse?  Would checking
out this movie, and pointing out the Rovers, help this situation? _:)

(Matt Neibaur) matt@jax.gttw.com
Neptune Beach, Florida

------------------------------

From: chris.youngson@deepcove.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 95 17:43:25 
Subject: BLEEDING BRAKES

I saw the Shadtree mechanic yesterday. The brake bleeding tool is sold through
snap-on dealers as well. I was thinking about converting to disc brakes and a
more standard lug dimension? 73

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 19:59:16 -0700
From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)
Subject: Re: The Evil Thing strikes back... (+IBEX II comments)

I said (amongst a more descriptive/rambling description of a gearbox
problem that cropped up last week):

::Suddenly, third and fourth gear were simply not an option... the gearbox
::had decided to become a 2 speed.

John Liu wrote:

:The same thing happened to me.  Just driving along, and suddenly you cannot
:shift into 3rd or 4th -- no funny noises, no grinding, no slow builld-up to
:the problem, just feels like those slots suddenly got blocked off.  It
:turned out to be a little spring that is part of the 3rd/4th gear synchro
:assembly.  I don't have a parts catalog here at work, but if you want
:details let me know and I can try to look it up when I get home.  It is a
:little flat spring that attaches to the synchro in the middle, if one end
:breaks off then 3rd is gone, if the other end breaks then 4th is gone.  The
:spring costs approximately nothing.  My mechanic was able to make the
:diagnosis and replace the spring through the removable access plate on the
:transmission, without removing the transmission from the vehicle.  I don't
:recall if the floorboards had to be removed but my guess is they did.  I
:don't know if he used any special tools, either.  I don't recall the total
:cost with labor, but it was in the $100-200 range.
:
:The upshot is, conceivably you could repair this yourself without a whole
:lot of disassembly, if it is the same problem.  If this sounds like the
:problem you have, let me know.  I'll look up the part number, you can call
:Rovers North and ask if this sounds like a possible diagnosis and how to
:access and replace the spring.  Don't let them tell you the whole trans has
:to come out because it doesn't.  If they have no idea what I'm talking
:about, you could call my mechanic, John at 818 570 9901(there's two Johns,
:you want the original John not "Little John").  I don't know how receptive
:he'd be to giving much advice by long distance, but perhaps he could tell
:you if his technique requires special tools, etc.

and Craig Murray wrote:

:Yeah, it sounds like one of the spring clips on the syncro hub has come
:off, I had this happen a couple of years ago.  If you are lucky, it might
:have just slipped around a bit, as mine did, but if it is broken, you can
:either remove the other spring clips, or replace the syncro hub.  You
:should be able to verify this, by just removing the top of the gearbox,
:which is possible to do with out actually removing it from the vehicle.

These two assessments seem to describe what happened to me quite accurately.
I couldn't move the shifter into the 3/4 slots at all, but 1/2 and reverse
were fine (really smooth, no noise, etc).

After letting it sit for a week, I took a first crack of diagnosing the
problem this evening. I drained the oil, and there was nothing
weird/metallic in evidence... although there was a distressingly small
amount of oil to drain :(

After draining the oil, I pulled the floor boards. I randomly tried
shifting into all the gears again, and they seemed to pretty much work! 4th
was still a bit stiff at times, but otherwise? I guess this points to a
synchro problem as well, although when it wouldn't go into 3/4 before there
was no grinding at all, just a stubborn refusal to move into the proper
position. Now I have to be sure everything is OK, so I will press onward...

So, Now I have the floor up, and the shifter removed and I guess I should
remove the top of the gearbox, as John and Craig suggested. I believe I
need to remove the part that goes over the selector rods.. is this correct?
If I have this wrong, exactly what should I be removing to get access to
the top of the gearbox? Also, what am I looking for once I get there? I am
also assuming this can all be achieved without removing the seatbox. Is
this a correct assumption?

The most disturbing aspect of the prospect of removing the gearbox is the
expensive 5-speed conversion this process engenders (gee, I already have
everything out, why not just throw in a 5-speed?). While my rebuilt gearbox
has been well behaved and smooth (besides this recent problem), I still
absolutely *LOATHE* the overdrive whine.

-jory

p.s. I received the info on the IBEX II from Foers and was underwhelmed.
>From the promotional literature, the main changes appear to be cosmetic.
Unfortunately, the new version has managed to hit upon just the wrong look.
Too curvy and stylish to be differentiated from everything else on the
road, without the same ascetic aesthetic of the original IBEX which gave
the appearence of effortless operation and maintainence (like an extension
of the LR design philosophy). I will write him and inquire if there is
really much in the way of substantive/mechanical changes/improvements. If
not, I would only be interested in an older IBEX, which sounds a bit
difficult/unlikely. Otherwise, I might as well just get a D90 (when they
finally depreciate here in the US... sheesh ;)

------------------------------

From: Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
Subject: Re: The Evil Thing strikes back... (+IBEX II comments)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 95 13:08:47 EST

> These two assessments seem to describe what happened to me quite accurately.
> I couldn't move the shifter into the 3/4 slots at all, but 1/2 and reverse
> were fine (really smooth, no noise, etc).
 
> After letting it sit for a week, I took a first crack of diagnosing the
> problem this evening. I drained the oil, and there was nothing
> weird/metallic in evidence... although there was a distressingly small
> amount of oil to drain :(
 
> After draining the oil, I pulled the floor boards. I randomly tried
> shifting into all the gears again, and they seemed to pretty much work! 4th
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> was no grinding at all, just a stubborn refusal to move into the proper
> position. Now I have to be sure everything is OK, so I will press onward...

I have been told that eventually the syncro hub will wear and allow you 
to select 3rd and 4th, but the hub will nolonger be balanced.
 
> So, Now I have the floor up, and the shifter removed and I guess I should
> remove the top of the gearbox, as John and Craig suggested. I believe I
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> also assuming this can all be achieved without removing the seatbox. Is
> this a correct assumption?
 
Yes that is the right bit to remove, but to remove it without removing 
the seat box, you need to take out all the studs that hold it down, so it 
is possible.  Once you have removed the top of the gearbox, you will see 
where all the selectors go, the bit the 3rd/4th selector sits on is the 
syncro hub.  There should be 3 springs that "energise" the syncro hub, 
and keep it balanced.  If there is a missing spring, you should be able 
to replace it without removing the gearbox if you are very patient and 
nimble.

> The most disturbing aspect of the prospect of removing the gearbox is the
> expensive 5-speed conversion this process engenders (gee, I already have
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> absolutely *LOATHE* the overdrive whine.
> -jory

What sort of 5 speed are you thinking of?  If it is the one from Marks 
Four wheel drives in Australia, I have been warned to steer clear of 
them, as they are not very reliable.

--
==============================================================================
Craig Murray                 | 
Systems Administrator        | The answer to the ultimate question of life,
CP Software                  | the universe and everything is.... is....
1st Floor                    | 42! 
493 St Kilda Road            |
Melbourne  VIC  3004         |   -- Deep Thought (Life the Universe and         
mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au |                    Everything)

Note:  I do not take any responcibility for spelling mistakes.

flames > /dev/null

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 22:32:18 -0700
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: (fwd) Re: Where to get military Land Rovers

Path: nntp.crl.com!cs
From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Where to get military Land Rovers
Date: 20 Jun 1995 05:30:54 GMT
Organization: CRL - San Francisco Bay Area, USA
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <3s5mee$790@nntp.crl.com>
References: <3r4g61$plv@sunserver.lrz-muenchen.de> <3r50gb$21l@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <whitmermDA190A.2to@netcom.com> <taylors.803142663@hubcap>
NNTP-Posting-Host: crl8.crl.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

C Taylor Sutherland III (taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu) wrote:

: If you want military rovers, take a look at
: lro@majordomo.somethingIforget, the land rover owner digest and ask
: for Leslie Stutsman.  She can find it for you.

  That's lro@team.net for messages to the digest, and for subscription
  write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net with the message 'subscribe'
  in the body of the text.

  Oh Taylor "Man of a thousand LR questions" Sutherland, do you KNOW
  Leslie Stutsman???  In the UK the given name Leslie may well be a
  mans name.

--
  Michael Carradine   Carradine Studios                          cs@crl.com
  Architect           Architecture Development Planning    Tel 510-254-3324
  NCARB RIBA          PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA      Pgr 510-945-5000

  Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

--
  Michael Carradine   Carradine Studios                          cs@crl.com
  Architect           Architecture Development Planning    Tel 510-254-3324
  NCARB RIBA          PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA      Pgr 510-945-5000

  Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at:  http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 03:41:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: FOWARDED MESSAGE from Robert Davis

I'm posting this for Robert Davis (who is plagued by E-Mail demons)..

--------------FOWARDED MESSAGE---------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 16:02:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: robdav@sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com (Robert Davis)
Subject: British Car Day Bowie MD on 6/24-25

On Saturday June 24th our small caravan will be traveling from the
Tidewater area of VA up to Ripps Country Village Inn (301) 805-5900 or
(800) 359-RIPS, for dinner and lodging estimated arrival time 4:30 pm.
For those of you in the area Ripps has excellent dining with over 100
different beers (and I only wanted to drink about 4 or 5).  We will
stay over at the Motel and will be sitting around the vehicles with
ale, technical experiences, and the famous Mercruiser
powered Land Rover will be available for test drives.  Ripps is located
at the intersection of US 301 and RT. 197 (50 meters from RT. 50).
British Car Day begins Sunday Morning at Allen Pond Park in Bowie
(aprox 3 miles from Ripps).  So if Canada is too far away, come join
us for the 18th and final (last) Br. Car Day!  I too would like to
attend the Ottawa Valley Club events, but can't make it there and back on
for manditory work Monday!
Please come join us.  Fore more info call Sandy Grice @ (804) 423-4898
or call me @ (804) 421-3504.
R&D

------------------------------

From: LANDROVER@delphi.com
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 03:41:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: 109 chassis number location

Paul Nash needs a number...

 
> In South Africa, _all_ cars had a chassis number stamped onto the near-
> side front of the chassis (passenger side dumb-iron).  This one isn't
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> no-one seems to know where to look.
> Any ideas would be _most_ welcome, especially from Australian owners

Have you considered _BRIBERY_???? 

Seriously... I was in Turkey for two years.. (about 20 years ago!) and the
Motor Vehicle inspections/registrations consisted of verifying chassis
numbers, etc. Standard Operating Procedure was to bribe the officials.
Worked like a charm.  
 
Good luck!
  Michael Loiodice       E-MAIL   landrover@delphi.com              
  166 W.Fulton St.       VOICE    (518) 773-2697                    
  Gloversville                                                      
  NY, 12078              1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P.      
              7          1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol
           #:-}>         1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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